WHAT GOSPEL DID THE APOSTLE PAUL PREACH ?

[Rose_bud]

You don't like to understand scripture literally?

Hi There

Hope you are good. If the scripture should be intepreted literally, this is how it should be understood some writings are figures of speech. But as mentioned earlier the two letters were first written to the original audience who had a different cultural, historical, geographical context etc. So the original author writes bearing this in mind.
And it was a letter which is to be read as a whole, ie. not just single verses extracted here and there. If I had written a long lengthy email to a loved one, I would want them to read the whole email and not extract single sentences.

Paul first helps his readers understand that all humanity is guilty before a Holy God. Gentiles because they have suppressed the knowledge of God (Creation is a testament that there is a God) Romans 1:18-23. And the Jews because He had revealed Himself to them (through their history Abraham, Moses, the Law) Romans 2-3 before he makes the appeal for why they both (Jew and Gentile) need the righteousness of God in Christ and how to obtain it. ie by faith Romans 3:22-26, later in the letter He shares what this faith looks like. Id say from Romans 12:1 beginning with "Therefore"... the preceding chapters he had just explained the "wherefore".

James on the otherhand writes to the "twelve tribes" so I'd safely assume they knew the scriptures . James has references to the law especially how to treat others, which is the royal law (love God, love others) a demonstration of our faith (James 2:8-11). They believed in God and the revelation that Jesus is God, therefore they should respond in a certain way. The additional confidence that they would now be empowered by a Holy God through His Spirit to do what God required of them.

We are deceived if we think we can do what God requires of us, without Him empowering us. This is faith that we believe in God to do for and through us what we cannot do for ourselves.

 

[Rose_bud]

Will you write me a verse , where the message was the same ??

And when did the GENTILES you wrote about , were ??

#1 Were they all Jews ?

#2 Were they all Gentiles ?

#3 When , and when they all become ONE ??

#4 Were they under the Law of Moses ?

#5 Or were they under the New Covenant ?

#6 Or is it all saved by Grace , today ?

Your thoughts ??

dan p

Hey Dan P

I wrote in the previous verse why Im not a great fan of just quoting scripture in fragments. I prefer a more holistic approach and believe in a holistic gospel.

So I dont think I'll be able to respond to your questions in the manner that your requested. But I hope that the previous post gives an idea of my thoughts when it comes to some of your points.

 

[Rose_bud]

James says man in life (world) must walk the walk not just talk the talk. Romans refers to the Kingdom.

"walk the talk" is an idiom for what James and Romans are saying as a kingdom principle.

 

[Guojing]

Hi There

Hope you are good. If the scripture should be intepreted literally, this is how it should be understood some writings are figures of speech. But as mentioned earlier the two letters were first written to the original audience who had a different cultural, historical, geographical context etc. So the original author writes bearing this in mind.
And it was a letter which is to be read as a whole, ie. not just single verses extracted here and there. If I had written a long lengthy email to a loved one, I would want them to read the whole email and not extract single sentences.

Paul first helps his readers understand that all humnanity is guilty before a Holy God. Gentiles because they have suppressed the knowledge of God (Creation is a testament that there is a God) Romans 1:18-23. And the Jews because He had revealed Himself to them (through their history Abraham, Moses, the Law) Romans 2-3 before he makes the appeal for why they both (Jew and Gentile) need the righteousness of God in Christ and how to obtain it. ie by faith Romans 3:22-26, later in the letter He shares what this faith looks like. Id say from Romans 12:1 beginning with "Therefore"... the preceding chapters he had just explained the "wherefore".

James on the otherhand writes to the "twelve tribes" so Id safely assume they knew the scriptures . James has references to the law especially how to treat others. which is the royal law (love God, love others) a demostration of our faith (james 2:8-11). They believed in God and the revelevation that Jesus is God, therefore they should respond in a certain way. The additional confidence that they would now be empowered by a Holy God through His Spirit to do what God required of them.

We are deceived if we think we can do what God requires of us, without Him empowering us. This is faith that we believe in God to do for and through us that we cannot do for ourselves.

You mentioned everything else, except those 2 verses.

 

[Rose_bud]

You mentioned everything else, except those 2 verses.

Uhmm that was deliberate.
I explained why if you read the post.

 

[oikonomia]

Firstly, Peter did not preach that in Acts 2.

In including Joel's prophecy of God pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh, he was preaching the Body of Christ even
if he had not been that clear about it.

Now the pouring out of God's Spirit on all flesh would of course include His servants of the nation of Israel first.

But this is what is spoken through the prophet Joel:
“And it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream things in dreams;

And indeed upon My slaves, both men and women, I will pour out of My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:16-18)

How can you possibly deny that this is what happened in Acts.
First we see the Spirit poured out upon the Jewish believers.
Second we see the Spirit poured out upon the Gentile believers.

And both groups called upon the name of the Lord Jesus.
And both groups spoke out the praises of God.

Secondly, as I said, if Peter was thinking about that in Acts 2, he will not need a threefold vision from God in Acts 10, to visit Cornelius.

The Christians life for all of us is to put away our old manner of life and put on the new life.
Because Peter was SO USED to the seperation between Jews and Gentiles to prepare him
God gave that three-fold vision.

Without that vision he may not have gone into the house of Cornelius to preach.
In spite of himself Peter preached the truth of God, yet not yet having himself
entered into all aspects of that truth.

It is not as if Jesus had not foretold that the gospel was to go to all the nations of the world and to all creation.

And He said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to all the creation. (Mark 15:16)

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and disciple all the nations,
baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:18b-19)

 

[Marilyn C]

In the Body of Christ, Jews and gentiles are equal (Galatians 3:28).

We know that cannot be the foundation of what Peter preached to Israel in Acts 2. If it was, his response to Cornelius, years later in Acts 10, would be contradictory.

I agree.

 

[Dan Perez]

In including Joel's prophecy of God pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh, he was preaching the Body of Christ even
if he had not been that clear about it.

Now the pouring out of God's Spirit on all flesh would of course include His servants of the nation of Israel first.

But this is what is spoken through the prophet Joel:
“And it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream things in dreams;

And indeed upon My slaves, both men and women, I will pour out of My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy. (Acts 2:16-18)

How can you possibly deny that this is what happened in Acts.
First we see the Spirit poured out upon the Jewish believers.
Second we see the Spirit poured out upon the Gentile believers.

And both groups called upon the name of the Lord Jesus.
And both groups spoke out the praises of God.


The Christians life for all of us is to put away our old manner of life and put on the new life.
Because Peter was SO USED to the seperation between Jews and Gentiles to prepare him
God gave that three-fold vision.

Without that vision he may not have gone into the house of Cornelius to preach.
In spite of himself Peter preached the truth of God, yet not yet having himself
entered into all aspects of that truth.

It is not as if Jesus had not foretold that the gospel was to go to all the nations of the world and to all creation.

And He said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to all the creation. (Mark 15:16)

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and disciple all the nations,
baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:18b-19)

My reply is to Acts 2.:17 , and the words WILL POUR // EKCHEO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE ,ACTIVE VOICE means that Christ is causing the action and in the Greek INDICATIVE MOOD and that means you better believe it .

It was spoken by the prophet Joel , says it was what Joel said is called a FAR VIEW and what Luke wrote in Acts is called a NEAR VIEW .

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

My reply is to Acts 2.:17 , and the words WILL POUR // EKCHEO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE ,ACTIVE VOICE means that Christ is causing the action and in the Greek INDICATIVE MOOD and that means you better believe it .

It was spoken by the prophet Joel , says it was what Joel said is called a FAR VIEW and what Luke wrote in Acts is called a NEAR VIEW .

dan p

I am not sure I follow you.

But we know that if we are of Christ the Lord we are members of His Body and members one of another.

 

[Dan Perez]

I am not sure I follow you.

But we know that if we are of Christ the Lord we are members of His Body and members one of another.

I am not sure I follow you.

But we know that if we are of Christ the Lord we are members of His Body and members one of another.

I use the words from the KJV , Greek text and just up lines of words that confuse you and me and say that we are the members of his Body , is a simple statement , how will YOU prove it with a verse ?

Dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I use the words from the KJV , Greek text and just up lines of words that confuse you and me and say that we are the members of his Body , is a simple statement , how will YOU prove it with a verse ?

Dan p

Dan could you re-write this paragraph? Break it up more by periods perhaps, rather then by commas.
I am not completely sure what it says or requests of me.

I use the words from the KJV ,
Greek text and just up lines of words that confuse you and me and say that we are the members of his Body ,
is a simple statement
, how will YOU prove it with a verse ?

 

[Dan Perez]

Dan could you re-write this paragraph? Break it up more by periods perhaps, rather then by commas.
I am not completely sure what it says or requests of me.

I use the words from the KJV ,
Greek text and just up lines of words that confuse you and me and say that we are the members of his Body ,
is a simple statement
, how will YOU prove it with a verse ?

# 1 I only use the KING JAMES VERSION .

# 2 That is why I use the Greek words as they tell the real story of what the word or words mean !

#3 The Greek words tell the story , using Greek tenses , cases , moods , pronouns , and disjuncative particle negatives .

#4 All should buy Vine's dictionary and Strong's book .

dan p

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

# 1 I only use the KING JAMES VERSION .

# 2 That is why I use the Greek words as they tell the real story of what the word or words mean !

#3 The Greek words tell the story , using Greek tenses , cases , moods , pronouns , and disjuncative particle negatives .

#4 All should buy Vine's dictionary and Strong's book .

dan p

dan p

What is your level of formal education in New Testament Greek?
Bachelors? Masters? Doctorate? Post Doctorate?

 

[Aristarkos]

But is still not considered a Jew

From Romans we can learn what Jews are:

Romans 2:29 « But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. »

Romans 10:12 « For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; »

We know (at least we should know) that with « Greek » all those are included who are not a Jew, in other words all Gentiles, not just people living in the country of Greece. Jews are all those from the the 12 tribes, not just those from the tribe of Juda.

In the OT we can learn what is proselyte is:

Exo. 12:48 « And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. »

There is no distinction between a proselyte and a Jew according to God.

Aristarkos

 

[Aristarkos]

In Acts 10: 30 Cornelius and in verse 44 the Holy Spirit fell upon all and in verse 47 CORNELIUS is water baptized .

Since the BODY OF CHRIST was yet formed Cornelius becomes of Israel and NOT the BODY OF CHRIST

Then Cornelius become Proselyte .

dan p

No, if so you're entering the conflict Paul tries to prevent in Galatians where he fights to stop gentiles from being circumcised and become Jews. Cornelius was and stayed a Gentile. Paul was the only one send to the Gentiles even though up until Acts 28 the Jew came first.

To prove this read what it says for example in Acts 10:28: « And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew (Peter) to keep company, or come unto one (Cornelius) of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. »

Aristarkos

 

[Dan Perez]

What is your level of formal education in New Testament Greek?
Bachelors? Masters? Doctorate? Post Doctorate?

I am learning as I go , and do you have what asked me , with having education ?

ALL can use the Greek text , if want to learn Greek , tenses , Pronouns , Cases , and Moods and even shows how to pronounce them .

Anyone can check the Greek text and google , BLUE LETTER BIBLE or BIBLE HUB and see what I wrote is true ?

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I am learning as I go , and do you have what asked me , with having education ?

ALL can use the Greek text , if want to learn Greek , tenses , Pronouns , Cases , and Moods and even shows how to pronounce them .

Anyone can check the Greek text and google , BLUE LETTER BIBLE or BIBLE HUB and see what I wrote is true ?

dan p

I had a Greek tutor for awhile with some other brothers eager to learn.
My experience is that you don't casually drift into learning it without considerable study time put in.
Some who have a propensity for learning languages are quicker.

You sound like only KJV is a trustworthy English translation.
Every translation of the Bible is also an interpretation of the original language in many places.

I know the great tools which are available.
I use them too.

I don't try to tell people "Its always just as simple as checking the Interlinear with all the grammatical indications."
There are a number of posters here which seem to think everything needed to understand any verse
in the New Testament is a matter of examination of the grammatical parts of Greek.

Sometimes it may be helpful. Sometimes it is just kind of amusing that this dazzling display of text book Greek grammer
settles all spiritual and biblical issues.

My three favorite English translations are the Recovery Version, the 1901 American Standard, and Darby's New Translation.
I work on my Greek but not terribly consistantly yet.

 

[Dan Perez]

I had a Greek tutor for awhile with some other brothers eager to learn.
My experience is that you don't casually drift into learning it without considerable study time put in.
Some who have a propensity for learning languages are quicker.

You sound like only KJV is a trustworthy English translation.
Every translation of the Bible is also an interpretation of the original language in many places.

I know the great tools which are available.
I use them too.

I don't try to tell people "Its always just as simple as checking the Interlinear with all the grammatical indications."
There are a number of posters here which seem to think everything needed to understand any verse
in the New Testament is a matter of examination of the grammatical parts of Greek.

Sometimes it may be helpful. Sometimes it is just kind of amusing that this dazzling display of text book Greek grammer
settles all spiritual and biblical issues.

My three favorite English translations are the Recovery Version, the 1901 American Standard, and Darby's New Translation.
I work on my Greek but not terribly consistantly yet.

I have the works of one called R C Brock and called him him many times a month and learned Greek in college , under Dwight Pentecost , a well known Pastor and Greek teacher , and his books , Roman , through Philemon has notes , with tenses , Aorist tenses , Prefect tense , Perfect tenses , Active Passive , , and Middle voices , and the Cases .

Just some do check me , and use s different platform and anyone does believe , like what the Greek words for Purgatory Church , or Limbo are not Greek words , they will ignore all .

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

I have the works of one called R C Brock and called him him many times a month and learned Greek in college , under Dwight Pentecost , a well known Pastor and Greek teacher , and his books , Roman , through Philemon has notes , with tenses , Aorist tenses , Prefect tense , Perfect tenses , Active Passive , , and Middle voices , and the Cases .

Just some do check me , and use s different platform and anyone does believe , like what the Greek words for Purgatory Church , or Limbo are not Greek words , they will ignore all .

dan p

Congradulations. Our tutor was the late Eugene Van Ness Goetchius. He was the author of a textbook
"The Language of the New Testament" - published by Scribner and Sons.

I am not fluent in either ancient Greek or Hebrew as Dr. Goetchius was in both. So wish me some success in learning more.
Heaven help us if we all have to learn Greek to have a relationship in life and truth with Jesus Christ.
There are helpful apps today to practice your declensions, vocabulary, and such things. I plan to get one and practice.

Jokingly Dr. Geotchius told us that he wrote the textbook because he wanted to learn NT Greek.

 

[Dan Perez]

Congradulations. Our tutor was the late Eugene Van Ness Goetchius. He was the author of a textbook
"The Language of the New Testament" - published by Scribner and Sons.

I am not fluent in either ancient Greek or Hebrew as Dr. Goetchius was in both. So wish me some success in learning more.
Heaven help us if we all have to learn Greek to have a relationship in life and truth with Jesus Christ.
There are helpful apps today to practice your declensions, vocabulary, and such things. I plan to get one and practice.

Jokingly Dr. Geotchius told us that he wrote the textbook because he wanted to learn NT Greek.

If , most people would check BLUE LETTER BIBLE or BIBLE HUB anyone can check what I have written and learn from there program , how to pronounce the Greek word and they give the Tenses , pronoun , moods , etc

dan p