I'm looking for answers

[honey badger]

There may well be some truths in the Bible but let's not forget it was written by several men and at different times. I haven't the time or inclination for Bible study but it's open to misunderstanding and misinterpretation and essentially it is second-hand knowledge. Why is it claimed to be the word of God if written by mere men? It isn't foolproof.

So far, no one has come up with proper evidence which is much as I thought but the story of salvation just makes no sense to me. I guess this conversation has come to an end.

what evidence are you in need of ?

 

[B Griffin]

McDonalds, Burger King or neither

Yep, "If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'" (1 Co 15:32)

 

[Aubergine99]

You disqualify your own argument. You assert that you have no choice, but further insist that others have a choice to wake up. So you may choose to wake up.

I said that I have no free will to choose but I do make choices. Not the same at all. You also have the choice to wake up.

 

[shadowhunter]

I said that I have no free will to choose but I do make choices. Not the same at all. You also have the choice to wake up.

A train changing tracks because of a switch had no choice. Your sophistry betrays you as a scoffer and disqualifies you as a questioner.

 

[childeye 2]

God is Love, as in brotherly Love, compassion, maternal instinct, charity, grace, etc. The faith in these Spiritual attributes as the Eternal Power is where hope lies.

 

[Aubergine99]

A train changing tracks because of a switch had no choice. Your sophistry betrays you as a scoffer and disqualifies you as a questioner.

That's not very nice, is it? Yes, the train has no choice. I do have choices but the choice I make is not from a place of free will; it is determined by previous factors. It is that simple. Once you see that clearly, you will see that people do not have free will. Without free will, the idea of salvation makes no sense, and hence I do not and cannot believe it. The only philosophy that makes sense to me is Advaita Vedanta (Non Duality) and does involve God but it is not the Christian God. I have been studying it for a few years now and it has been a revelation to me. Unfortunately, there are some charlatans who are self-professed teachers and they should be avoided. It takes time and effort to find really good literature and teachers but they are there. Try it for yourself.

 

[shadowhunter]

That's not very nice, is it? Yes, the train has no choice. I do have choices but the choice I make is not from a place of free will; it is determined by previous factors. It is that simple. Once you see that clearly, you will see that people do not have free will. Without free will, the idea of salvation makes no sense, and hence I do not and cannot believe it. The only philosophy that makes sense to me is Advaita Vedanta (Non Duality) and does involve God but it is not the Christian God. I have been studying it for a few years now and it has been a revelation to me. Unfortunately, there are some charlatans who are self-professed teachers and they should be avoided. It takes time and effort to find really good literature and teachers but they are there. Try it for yourself.

There are better ways to handle your guilt than trying to define God out of the picture. You are irrational: I have a choice.. but, but, but it is predetermined by circumstances... so I have no choice. Try Romans 1:18 ff... it explains your irrationality well.

 

[Lost4words]

That's not very nice, is it? Yes, the train has no choice. I do have choices but the choice I make is not from a place of free will; it is determined by previous factors. It is that simple. Once you see that clearly, you will see that people do not have free will. Without free will, the idea of salvation makes no sense, and hence I do not and cannot believe it. The only philosophy that makes sense to me is Advaita Vedanta (Non Duality) and does involve God but it is not the Christian God. I have been studying it for a few years now and it has been a revelation to me. Unfortunately, there are some charlatans who are self-professed teachers and they should be avoided. It takes time and effort to find really good literature and teachers but they are there. Try it for yourself.

I would say that you are indeed very lost my friend.

 

[Lost4words]

A train changing tracks because of a switch had no choice. Your sophistry betrays you as a scoffer and disqualifies you as a questioner.

Two new foods are placed in front of you. You have never seen or tried them before. Free will or not determines which 'you' choose?

 

[childeye 2]

That's not very nice, is it? Yes, the train has no choice. I do have choices but the choice I make is not from a place of free will; it is determined by previous factors. It is that simple. Once you see that clearly, you will see that people do not have free will. Without free will, the idea of salvation makes no sense, and hence I do not and cannot believe it. The only philosophy that makes sense to me is Advaita Vedanta (Non Duality) and does involve God but it is not the Christian God. I have been studying it for a few years now and it has been a revelation to me. Unfortunately, there are some charlatans who are self-professed teachers and they should be avoided. It takes time and effort to find really good literature and teachers but they are there. Try it for yourself.

The term free will is always problematic when unqualified. There's a difference between choice/option and choice/decision. The choice/option is circumstantial to the event, while the impetus of our choice/decision is based on what we believe to be true.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

You are not looking for answers.

 

[atpollard]

Oh dear, that's a bit lame. I'm obviously talking about atheists who stay atheists for their entire life.

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."​

- Stuart Chase

Thank you for providing a living illustration of Stuart's point.

 

[Aubergine99]

I would say that you are indeed very lost my friend.

Not so at all. There's something fundamentally very wrong with the Christian teaching and this is it: You should drop the idea about God's wrath, free will, salvation, and hell. It tries to put fear into atheists in order to scare them towards God and that is utterly futile. That is why Christianity is in decline throughout the world. God is about love, but certainly not fear; it just portrays him as a tyrant. I think you are the ones that are lost.

 

[Aubergine99]

The term free will is always problematic when unqualified. There's a difference between choice/option and choice/decision. The choice/option is circumstantial to the event, while the impetus of our choice/decision is based on what we believe to be true.

I actually agree with the above but belief is not a choice, imo.

 

[atpollard]

Here is your answer (not that you will understand it):

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

Romans 9:19-24 [NLT]

Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?" ​

​

No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?" When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction. He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.​

 

[Clare73]

Is the only reason to be an example to believers of God's anger towards atheists? How does God show his anger as I've never seen it?

So anything you have not personally seen cannot be true?
That explains a lot.

If you've never seen it, why do you complain about God's condemnation of atheists?

Time to get into the Old Testament.
And then there's the New Testament presentation of the wrath of God in Ro 1:18-32.

 

[Aubergine99]

Two new foods are placed in front of you. You have never seen or tried them before. Free will or not determines which 'you' choose?

That is not free will; it's just a random choice that is totally meaningless. There are some great videos on YT on free will. Take a look and learn something.

 

[atpollard]

Re finding my way back to my faith - not a chance. You, my friend, need to wake up and see that you have been well and truly brainwashed.

"I'm looking for answers" ... you lied.

 

[Clare73]

It doesn't matter what age you are. We are not responsible for how we turn out since it is determined by past events. This includes our thought processes. If we were to be truly responsible, we would have to have been involved in our creation. Is that not obvious to you?

Finite mind at work.

Your condemnation is not based on your "responsibility," it's based on your (fallen) nature.

The rattlesnake is not "responsible' for his (poisonous) nature, but I still kill all of them in my backyard anyway.

 

[Clare73]

I can't just accept truth without proof of it. Evidence may help in belief but it's not proof. With regards to God, scriptures, religion etc. there is simply no proof. Aren't Christians taught that faith is what is required since there's no proof?

Faith is not based on one's choice to believe.

There is "proof" alright, totally and completely convincing truth, by the the Holy Spirit's powerful witness to one's own spirit of the absolute truth of Scripture.

No interlopers (those who want to judge the truth for themselves first, to decide if they will receive and believe it) allowed.