I'm looking for answers

[Aubergine99]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

God does not create atheists. They are atheists based on their own reductionist understanding of reality. Atheism is not the most probable explanation of reality. In this way, God allows them to hold a view that is incorrect when they (most of them anyway, and certainly most of the online militant atheists) have plenty of sufficient evidence to believe God exists. There is this saying, "Everyone believes in at least one miracle." For atheists that miracle is the cause of the universe which they think came from nothing.

Christ does not send atheists to hell for being atheists. He sends them to hell (the nature of hell is a debated topic) for their sin. If there is no forgiveness of their sin, their sin has to go somewhere as sin does not simply disappear in the ether. There is forgiveness in Christ and that is what our salvation is based on.

 

[HTacianas]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

That's a conundrum you run into whenever you discuss predestination. Some say God creates people solely for salvation, and others solely for condemnation. It's touched on by the writer to the Romans:

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction...

He gives an answer to the question before asking it:

Rom 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

So, he says in effect, who are you to question God? It's an answer to the question but not a very good answer I suppose. But the question is merely a hypothetical. It's not meant to say that God has done that even though some will use it to establish some doctrine. I personally don't believe that is the case. I prefer 1 Timothy that states that God is He:

1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So God desires all to be saved but some obviously are not going to be. It is their own choice.

 

[Clare73]

I'm looking for answers

And therein is the difficulty.

And if you like/agree with the answers, then you will believe them, right?

Only God can show you the truth.
And he doesn't show it to everyone.
He shows it on his own terms, not yours.

And those terms are:
he does not show it to you so that you may judge it,
he shows it to you for only one purpose, that you accept it,
and as long as your notion is that you want to know the truth so you can evaluate it,
he will never show it to you.
Were he to show it to you on any other terms, then you would be liable for rejecting it.

He reveals his truth for one reason only, to believe and obey it.
He will show it to you when you can say from the bottom of your heart:
Lord, show me your truth and I will receive, believe and obey it.

 

[B Griffin]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

The answer is simple. Everyone knows there is a God because God reveals Himself to all. Those who reject Him get the separation they want.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful. (Romans 1:18–21)​

 

[Diamond7]

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him?

1. Free Will: The idea that God gives humans the choice to love Him or not is rooted in the concept of free will. This notion suggests that individuals have the capacity to make choices independent of predestination or external influences.
2. God's Knowledge: The idea that God is capable of both knowing and not knowing can be related to the theological concept of God's omniscience and how it interacts with human free will. Some theological perspectives propose that God's knowledge does not interfere with human choice.
3. Forgiveness and Love: The concept that God forgives and does not hold past sins against individuals aligns with many religious teachings. It reflects the idea of divine mercy and grace that allows for redemption and transformation.
4. Animals and Free Will: The comparison of human free will with the behavior of animals is often used to highlight the uniqueness of human decision-making and moral responsibility.
5. Fallen World and Redemption: The idea that the world is "fallen" and in need of redemption is a common theological belief in various religious traditions. It suggests that humans are separated from God due to sin and need a means of reconciliation.
6. Dominion and Authority: The concept of humans being given dominion and authority can be related to religious texts that describe humans as stewards of creation, responsible for caring for and managing the world.
7. Joint Heirs with Christ: This phrase often appears in Christian theology and signifies a spiritual inheritance shared with Christ, often related to the promise of eternal life.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

Just because God knows our choices, does not mean He is responsible for them.

God sees things we do not, God's comprehention, wisdom is on another level, His thinking and mind we cannot comprehend. How could finite being understood the infinate God?

God also does whatever He wants and everything He does, He does for His glory. Did He know we would sin? Yes, always. So why did He then create us? To show His love and mercy. He knew we would do evil and yet out of love created us. He knew how much our salvation would cost. He saves us freely but it did cost God everything.

So why did He allow us to fall? So the Son would glorify the Father on the cross. No one loves us more than God yet we constantly sin against Him. We constantly mock Him, question Him yet no one ask why He allows good, no one praises Him, no one thanks Him, we just sin sin sin. It's not surprising God is angry at us, yet He is merciful in holding His wrath so we might come to repentence. God knows who will repent, but it does not mean He is responsible for those who reject Him, for He showed love towards all of us, we are without excuse.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

Why would you keep asking questions which require a direct interview with God to answer?

 

[Aubergine99]

God does not create atheists. They are atheists based on their own reductionist understanding of reality. Atheism is not the most probable explanation of reality. In this way, God allows them to hold a view that is incorrect when they (most of them anyway, and certainly most of the online militant atheists) have plenty of sufficient evidence to believe God exists. There is this saying, "Everyone believes in at least one miracle." For atheists that miracle is the cause of the universe which they think came from nothing.

Christ does not send atheists to hell for being atheists. He sends them to hell (the nature of hell is a debated topic) for their sin. If there is no forgiveness of their sin, their sin has to go somewhere as sin does not simply disappear in the ether. There is forgiveness in Christ and that is what our salvation is based on.

Thanks for responding but not sure I agree with this. When we are born we have no concept of God so it follows that we don't have a belief in him either.

"He sends them to hell for their sin". What is the sin exactly? If it is because they do not hold a particular belief, that is not their fault. How can someone be punished for not holding this belief?

You seemed to have missed the point of my opening comment. Why would God create someone, knowing full well that they will never believe in him, and then punish them for that? It simply makes no sense. You may argue that we were born with "free will" and we have choices; again, people do not choose beliefs. A belief exists because a thought is so convincing, one is compelled to believe in it wholeheartedly.

 

[Aubergine99]

Just because God knows our choices, does not mean He is responsible for them.

God sees things we do not, God's comprehention, wisdom is on another level, His thinking and mind we cannot comprehend. How could finite being understood the infinate God?

God also does whatever He wants and everything He does, He does for His glory. Did He know we would sin? Yes, always. So why did He then create us? To show His love and mercy. He knew we would do evil and yet out of love created us. He knew how much our salvation would cost. He saves us freely but it did cost God everything.

So why did He allow us to fall? So the Son would glorify the Father on the cross. No one loves us more than God yet we constantly sin against Him. We constantly mock Him, question Him yet no one ask why He allows good, no one praises Him, no one thanks Him, we just sin sin sin. It's not surprising God is angry at us, yet He is merciful in holding His wrath so we might come to repentence. God knows who will repent, but it does not mean He is responsible for those who reject Him, for He showed love towards all of us, we are without excuse.

Thanks for responding.

"Just because God knows our choices, does not mean He is responsible for them." I beg to differ. If God is the creator of all things, then he is responsible for the design and how it functions. I'm glad you brought up choice but the concept of "free will" is illusory, in my opinion. Everything that happens is a result of previous events, which are mostly out of our control. How can a sinner be punished for things out of his control. "Control" is another illusion.

"So why did He then create us? To show His love and mercy. He knew we would do evil and yet out of love created us." That makes no sense. Had he not created us, there would be no need whatsoever for love and mercy.

"It's not surprising God is angry at us" Why, since he is responsible for his own creation? What are these sins you talk about? Most people are good, law-abiding citizens.

 

[Aubergine99]

Why would you keep asking questions which require a direct interview with God to answer?

I ask the question of Christians because they know more about God's word than I do but they cannot come up with a sensible answer; maybe it's because no one knows but it's really about common sense. A bit like the impossibility of having a round square.

 

[Aubergine99]

And therein is the difficulty.

And if you like/agree with the answers, then you will believe them, right?

Only God can show you the truth.
And he doesn't show it to everyone.
He shows it on his own terms, not yours.

And those terms are:
he does not show it to you so that you may judge it,
he shows it to you for only one purpose, that you accept it,
and as long as your notion is that you want to know the truth so you can evaluate it,
he will never show it to you.
Were he to show it to you on any other terms, then you would be liable for rejecting it.

He reveals his truth for one reason only, to believe and obey it.
He will show it to you when you can say from the bottom of your heart:
Lord, show me your truth and I will receive, believe and obey it.

Sorry, but that makes no sense.

"He reveals his truth for one reason only, to believe and obey it." Where's 'free will' in this?

"and as long as your notion is that you want to know the truth so you can evaluate it,
he will never show it to you." Why give us the power of discernment, intelligence, if we cannot use it? Nonsense.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I ask the question of Christians because they know more about God's word than I do but they cannot come up with a sensible answer; maybe it's because no one knows but it's really about common sense. A bit like the impossibility of having a round square.

Why doesn't it make sense to you? What kind of logic are you applying here by which to understand the conundrum?

I mean, what difference would a sensible, even fully justified, answer make to such a terrible question? If atheists are going to Hell, would having a "good answer" be helpful? I don't think so.

... but what do I know? I'm just an existential philosopher.

 

[Clare73]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

Your answer is in Ro 9:22-23.

 

[Clare73]

Sorry, but that makes no sense.

"He reveals his truth for one reason only, to believe and obey it." Where's 'free will' in this?

Where is "free will" in the Bible?
Are you free to choose to be sinless in all things at all times?
Then you aren't really free, are you?

and as long as your notion is that you want to know the truth so you can evaluate it,
he will never show it to you.

Why give us the power of discernment, intelligence, if we cannot use it?

Straw man.

Nonsense.

God's truth is spiritually discerned through the Holy Spirit.
Without the Holy Spirit, one cannot perceive God's truth.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Thanks for responding but not sure I agree with this.

You can disagree, but that is not what you asked for. You asked for a response and I gave you a rational answer.

When we are born we have no concept of God so it follows that we don't have a belief in him either.

That seems to be an assertion. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

What is the sin exactly?

All of them.

If it is because they do not hold a particular belief, that is not their fault. How can someone be punished for not holding this belief?

The same way we punish murderers in a court of law.

You seemed to have missed the point of my opening comment. Why would God create someone, knowing full well that they will never believe in him, and then punish them for that?

What if God does not actively control what people believe but leaves it up to nature? If an atheist has heard the Gospel, then they are without excuse for not believing.

You may argue that we were born with "free will" and we have choices; again, people do not choose beliefs

I never mentioned "free will." I am a compatibilist though and I believe free will is compatible with determinism.

 

[Lukaris]

Whatever we know or believe, God has given us a minimal, necessary capacity for accountability to know right from wrong. People of all over the psychology scale do nice or mean things ( Matthew 7:18-20) although understanding how it all works is perplexing & we must understand as best we can ( Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 10:16). We have to know matters like this before reading Romans 1:18-20 ( for ex.).

Anyway, the way of life & death is always before us ( see Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Romans 2:11-16 etc.). God testifies to us His sovereign justice ( Ezekiel 18:4-9, all of Ezekiel 18:1-32 should be read). God will save those who He knows ( not us) who did good ( Romans 9:14-18, John 5:22-30 etc.). The problem is many will not be saved under this standard & will face the great white throne of judgment with only their works( Revelation 20:11-16). The Lord’s savings grace ( Isaiah 53:1-12) takes more into account than we may realize ( Matthew 12:30-33).

It is our duty as Christians to warn about the judgment and preach salvation. The non believer needs to confess the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior ( Romans 10:9-13), live by faith to be justified ( Romans 1:17, Ephesians 2:8-10), live, as best we can, by the Lord’s commandments ( see John 14:15-18, Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10) and hold fast to our faith ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-2). Colossians 1:1-29 is a very beneficial read for the big picture.

 

[Lost4words]

Everyone is given free will. It is us that choose the path we walk on.

God gives us that choice. Yes, He may know which one we will choose but, the choice is ours!

 

[Aubergine99]

Everyone is given free will. It is us that choose the path we walk on.

God gives us that choice. Yes, He may know which one we will choose but, the choice is ours!

The choice is ours but in no way is it free. Where's the freedom when choices made are a result of previous events we have no control over? Our upbringing, genetics, temperament, education, prior events and thoughts all determine the choice.

 

[Aubergine99]

Why doesn't it make sense to you? What kind of logic are you applying here by which to understand the conundrum?

I mean, what difference would a sensible, even fully justified, answer make to such a terrible question? If atheists are going to Hell, would having a "good answer" be helpful? I don't think so.

... but what do I know? I'm just an existential philosopher.

Lol. Atheists aren't going anywhere and hell doesn't exist. Why would a loving God send anyone to hell for something they have no control over? I refuse to believe in such a tyrant.