I'm looking for answers

[shadowhunter]

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."​

- Stuart Chase

Thank you for providing a living illustration of Stuart's point.

God said that we could know before we believe. Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Jesus said that if it is popular, there is something wrong with it.
Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

There is proof of God, not merely evidences. He said to taste and see. Ps 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD [is] good: blessed [is] the man [that] trusteth in him.

But tasting is not a warm fuzzy casual reading of scriptures. He said to seek and search.
De 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Elohim אלהים means 'God אל separated from man ים by ignorance ה. He want you to know him.

One way to begin the path of knowing is to accept the Ge 2:21 challenge. Use a concordance and substitute each word for another possible meaning until there is a picture of Christ. Most of it is simple. There is one riddle requiring correlation with the seed of the woman and Jacob wrestling.

This is only the beginning. The whole of scripture speaks of Christ in great detail in prophetic riddle like this.
The Hebrew alphabet is a message from God before creation. The message of the cross is built into the language before they used the language. This is not free-for-all allegory, but is reproducible and verifiable.

Those who say the scripture is merely literal-historical define Christ out of the scriptures. It is a remnant hostility toward the Word from the Nicolaitan (conqueror of the laity) who lost his first love by deifying Mary: Augustine. When Jesus read the scriptures he did not read of Adam and Noah and Abraham. He saw himself in it all.

So obviously there must be something more than a dead history. You think you know the answer to the riddle "Why did the chicken cross the road?" is "To get to the other side". The real answer is "To get to the other side" where "the other side" is a euphemism for dying and going to heaven. When you see a dead chicken in the road, you ask the riddle.

The same is true for the Bible. If you only read the literal-historical, you miss the Son revealing the invisible Father. When you are asked to believe first... you are being set up for manipulation. Know... then believe (trust).

 

[childeye 2]

Not so at all. There's something fundamentally very wrong with the Christian teaching and this is it: You should drop the idea about God's wrath, free will, salvation, and hell. It tries to put fear into atheists in order to scare them towards God and that is utterly futile. That is why Christianity is in decline throughout the world. God is about love, but certainly not fear; it just portrays him as a tyrant. I think you are the ones that are lost.

The Christ implies the True Image of God sent by God. This necessarily implies that the term "God" is axiomatic when there is no imagery added, and therefore conveying "God" to be the source of the energy that formed all things. The Christ suffered and died so that sins can be forgiven and that is the Gospel that is preached. The scriptures identify this act as the ultimate act of a True and Trustworthy Love that would sacrifice oneself for others. Through belief in the Christ as The Holy Image of God a foundation for sound reasoning is provided since it ultimately defines the fundamental meanings of dichotomies such as good/bad in our psycholinguistics.

The narrative of the wrath of God in scripture is against changing the Holy Image of God into a corrupt image of god. Any corrupt imagery would convey a corrupt character trait that would in some way sacrifice others to save oneself. For example, there was a false image of god introduced by the serpent in the garden of Eden, which corrupted the mind of the innocent.

The narrative of the "fear of God" in scripture is that there is a power that ensures justice will be applied with wisdom and fairness.

So basically, Christianity is believing God the Eternal power is a pure untainted brotherly Love, Compassion, etc..
This would not preclude the wrath of God or the fear of God since these are also necessary components of brotherly Love.

 

[Aubergine99]

Finite mind at work.

Your condemnation is not based on your "responsibility," it's based on your (fallen) nature.

The rattlesnake is not "responsible' for his (poisonous) nature, but I still kill all of them in my backyard anyway.

I may not believe in free will or the Christian God BUT I do believe in responsibility because it makes for a better world for all and I don't want to end up in prison which is a very real option. I can't help believing in responsibility because it's based on common sense and not wanting to harm others, so my choices are based on those beliefs.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

@Aubergine99,

The absolute irony of your engagement in this thread is that I am the only one who has done everything you have asked and you are not longer discussing anything with me. Meanwhile, you are hardcore into debate mode with all these other people. You are not hear for answers. You are not a non-resistant non-believer. You are actively suppressing the truth. I met you on your grounds and you are not talking to me, so how is that at all honest dialog?

 

[atpollard]

@Aubergine99
Just don't whine.
When I was an atheist and [bad stuff] happened, I accepted that that's just what life is.
When I faced the possibility of death and the billion to one chance that there was a 'god', I acknowledged that he and I had nothing good to say to one another.

So at least OWN your beliefs and accept your damnation like a man. You chose it, so own it!
No whining about 'god' and 'love' ... you've done nothing to deserve His love and actively rejected His offer and terms for loving you.

 

[Aubergine99]

The Christ implies the True Image of God sent by God. This necessarily implies that the term "God" is axiomatic when there is no imagery added, and therefore conveying "God" to be the source of the energy that formed all things. The Christ suffered and died so that sins can be forgiven and that is the Gospel that is preached. The scriptures identify this act as the ultimate act of a True and Trustworthy Love that would sacrifice oneself for others. Through belief in the Christ as The Holy Image of God a foundation for sound reasoning is provided since it ultimately defines the fundamental meanings of dichotomies such as good/bad in our psycholinguistics.

The narrative of the wrath of God in scripture is against changing the Holy Image of God into a corrupt image of god. Any corrupt imagery would convey a corrupt character trait that would in some way sacrifice others to save oneself. For example, there was a false image of god introduced by the serpent in the garden of Eden, which corrupted the mind of the innocent.

The narrative of the "fear of God" in scripture is that there is a power that ensures justice will be applied with wisdom and fairness.

So basically, Christianity is believing God the Eternal power is a pure untainted brotherly Love, Compassion, etc..
This would not preclude the wrath of God or the fear of God since these are also necessary components of brotherly Love.

"The Christ suffered and died so that sins can be forgiven and that is the Gospel that is preached." Glad you mentioned this. Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer and die in order that sins can be forgiven? I have never understood this. Why can't God forgive sins irrespective of that?

 

[Aubergine99]

@Aubergine99,

The absolute irony of your engagement in this thread is that I am the only one who has done everything you have asked and you are not longer discussing anything with me. Meanwhile, you are hardcore into debate mode with all these other people. You are not hear for answers. You are not a non-resistant non-believer. You are actively suppressing the truth. I met you on your grounds and you are not talking to me, so how is that at all honest dialog?

I'm not not talking to you but everyone else has jumped onto this thread and I'm having difficulty keeping up tbh. You may have provided me with an answer but it isn't providing answers that make sense for me. I have actually heard enough from everyone now and can see that anything anyone is saying is not going to change my point of view. I'm open-minded but nothing is convincing me. I'm beginning to regret having joined CF.

 

[shadowhunter]

I have asked these two questions many times to Christians and no one can answer me, so here goes:

If God is omniscient, why would he create atheists, knowing full well that they will never believe in him? and
Why would he then cast them into eternal hellfire?

You have based your scoffing on unproven theories. What a shame when you face God and find out he has no respect for parrots.
Omniscience is a Greek imposition upon a Hebrew text. It is a strawman. You define what it means in your mind, then you hold God to your definition.

If God is omniscient, does he know the name of the pink elephant in orbit around Mars that has or will spring into existence because of Chaos theory? Such nonsense. God know what he chooses to know. The future does not yet exist, so there is nothing for him to know, except his purposes, which he is more than capable of accomplishing, with or without the freewill of man.

You jam so much junk into one scoffing statement it is no wonder you are confused.

God knows what he chooses to know. Your salvation is dependent upon him forgetting your sin. Jesus nor the Holy Spirit knew teh day of his coming. You have nothing but a silly dispute to cause division. 2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[childeye 2]

I actually agree with the above but belief is not a choice, imo.

Your posts indicated that you understood this, but your articulation needs some help. Scripture indicates that we reason and decide with our minds, but that we believe from our hearts. Which is why Paul mentions that faith/belief is the evidence of things hoped for. Hence, my desire to believe that Love is Eternal is based on how much I value Love. After all, it's not easy to love, which is why the cross of Christ shows True Love as being a self-sacrifice.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I'm open-minded but nothing is convincing me.

No offense, but that is a lie. You are not open-minded about the evidence for Christianity. When 90%+ of scholars agree with the six facts from the video, that is concrete evidence that Christ rose from the dead. Your answer is, "Well, people don't rise from the dead so it can't be true" but that literally is begging the question. What is complicated about this:

6 historical facts that nearly all scholars in relevant fields agree with and affirm as true even if they are atheists or agnostics or Jewish or whatever else:

1) Jesus died by crucifixion (not swoon theory).
2) The disciples had experiences that they believed were of the risen Jesus (Not a group hallucination which is medically impossible).
3) The resurrection of Christ was proclaimed very early (not a legend).
4) The disciple's belief in the resurrection is the event in history that turned the religious world upside down (all other religions like Jesus and have to make sense of Jesus in some way. The apostles were willing to die for their belief in the resurrection).
5) The conversion of James the brother of Jesus (who thought Jesus was crazy at the point of Christ's death on the cross).
6) The conversion of Apostle Paul (Paul had nothing to gain and everything to lose for his belief Christ rose from the dead).

You come up with a naturalistic theory that explains all the data.

 

[childeye 2]

"The Christ suffered and died so that sins can be forgiven and that is the Gospel that is preached." Glad you mentioned this. Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer and die in order that sins can be forgiven? I have never understood this. Why can't God forgive sins irrespective of that?

Great question. The short answer is that the righteous requirement of the law had to be fulfilled to destroy the power of death.

The longer answer is that the creature did not know how to value the attributes of the Creator without experiencing their absence. It's kind of like how true repentance comes only after we truly regret something we have done that has hurt others. Which necessarily means that through the regret of an action we now know something that had we known before, we would have never done what we now regret in the first place. Without Love we wouldn't even care. In essence when we follow Christ and carry our cross and forgive those who sin against us, we as sinners are justified through faith in the Eternal Love, and our conscience is purged.

 

[Aubergine99]

I've had enough of your self-righteousness and delusions. Goodbye. You've all been properly brainwashed.

 

[childeye 2]

I've had enough of your self-righteousness and delusions. Goodbye. You've all been properly brainwashed.

We either believe Love is trustworthy or we don't. We can't just ignore reality.

 

[Lost4words]

Not so at all. There's something fundamentally very wrong with the Christian teaching and this is it: You should drop the idea about God's wrath, free will, salvation, and hell. It tries to put fear into atheists in order to scare them towards God and that is utterly futile. That is why Christianity is in decline throughout the world. God is about love, but certainly not fear; it just portrays him as a tyrant. I think you are the ones that are lost.

God is all love and mercy. True Christians dont think like you think they do. You are misinformed my friend.

 

[Lost4words]

That is not free will; it's just a random choice that is totally meaningless. There are some great videos on YT on free will. Take a look and learn something.

Truth confuses u then!

 

[Lost4words]

I've had enough of your self-righteousness and delusions. Goodbye. You've all been properly brainwashed.

Nothing can defeat true belief in God.

Goodbye...

 

[Clare73]

I may not believe in free will or the Christian God BUT I do believe in responsibility because it makes for a better world for all and I don't want to end up in prison which is a very real option. I can't help believing in responsibility because it's based on common sense and not wanting to harm others, so my choices are based on those beliefs.

As they should be until you are given further light.

 

[Clare73]

I've had enough of your self-righteousness and delusions. Goodbye. You've all been properly brainwashed.

You only want answers that you like.

But the truth of God is not always to man's liking.

Therefore, you don't really want the truth.

 

[Divide]

You only want answers that you like.

But the truth of God is not always to man's liking.

Therefore, you don't really want the truth.

Isn't that the truth! Sure is. The Lord has told me to do things that I wanted to say no to, and I might have at first but I knew I had to.

I mean Come on, who in their right mind moves from Colorful Colorado to wrong side of the tracks Ohio? It just doesn't happen. But it was a word from the Lord. I still don't want to go. Then I started thinking about Jonah. And I did get scared. And boom! Here I am in Ohio! And content! Praise the Lord. true story.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed for review. ​