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sjastro · 2025-12-02T14:54:54-0600

The nonsense perpetrated by @stevevw there is no evidence of the ancient Egyptians using conventional tools particularly during the Old Kingdom is refuted by the following table.

Parameter	What It Shows	Archaeological Evidence	Implication (Supports Conventional Tools)
1. Surviving Tools	Direct physical proof of technology used	Copper chisels, stone hammers, dolerite pounders, bow drills, tubular copper drills, flint blades, polishing stones found in tombs, quarries, workshops	Demonstrates the tool types available and used — no unknown technology required
2. Workshop Assemblages	Context evidence of manufacturing	Finds at Giza, Saqqara, Deir el-Medina, Aswan, Hierakonpolis show tool kits, unfinished objects, debitage	Confirms how tools were applied in situ
3. Unfinished Artifacts	“Frozen moments” of work	Partially carved granite statues, bowls, and obelisks showing intermediate stages	Shows step-by-step stages achievable using chiseling, pounding, rubbing, and drilling
4. Quarry Tool Marks	Direct traces of working stone	Dolerite pounding pits, copper chisel marks, wedge holes at Aswan, Gebel el-Silsila, Tura	Matches tools that were found—no anomalous machining marks
5. Drill Holes Showing Spiral Grooves	Characteristic signature of rotary abrasion	Spiral striations created by quartz sand abrasive + copper tube drills	Matches experimental reproduction; not consistent with high-speed machinery
6. Bow Drill Evidence	Attested drilling method	Bow drills found in tombs; depictions in Old Kingdom tomb scenes	Explains small circular holes and vessel hollowing
7. Tubular Copper Drills	Explains core drilling	Archaeological copper tubes + cores from granite and limestone	Reproduced experimentally to match Egyptian core geometry
8. Microstructure of Tool Marks	Reveals tool hardness and motion	Microscopy shows crushing, abrasion patterns, and quartz-sand scoring	Consistent with pounding stones and sand abrasives, not high-speed cutting
9. Dolerite Pounding Depressions	Mechanically distinct from carving	Aswan quarries show large bowl-shaped depressions where dolerite was repeatedly hammered	Demonstrates long-term mechanical wear, consistent with manual pounding
10. Sand Abrasive Residues	Confirms abrasive technique	Quartz grains embedded in drill grooves and polishing scratches	Matches known Egyptian use of desert sand as abrasive
11. Relief Cutting Evidence	Explains shallow arcs and intricate shapes	Tool marks consistent with chisels, bow drills, and abrasion finishing	No anomalous cutting forces required
12. Overlapping Drill Holes	Technique for cutting curves	Bow drills used to make multiple small holes that were later chiseled out	Archaeologically known method for producing arcs and internal corners
13. Tube Drill Diameter Limits	Confirms realistic tool sizes	Most copper tube drills 1–10 cm diameter; none at “micro” scale	Supports traditional methods; no micro-machining attested
14. Experimental Archaeology	Modern replication validates plausibility	Engineers (Stocks, Dunnell, Denys Stocks, stonemasons) replicated granite cutting, drilling, and vase-making with known tools	Demonstrates all observed marks can be reproduced without advanced technology
15. Tomb & Temple Depictions	Visual documentation of tool use	Old Kingdom scenes show bow drills, pounders, chisels, saws, polishing	No depictions of unknown technologies
16. Stratigraphic Context	Dates tools to correct periods	Tools found in layers matching Old Kingdom and Middle Kingdom chronology	Confirms Egyptians had these tools at the time monuments were built
17. Lack of Residues from Advanced Machinery	Negative evidence	No metal alloys, bearings, lubricants, high-speed wear patterns	Strongly argues against machinery of unknown type
18. Consistency Across Sites	Tool marks uniform across Egypt	Same tools used in Saqqara, Giza, Aswan, Luxor, Sinai	Implies widespread traditional craft, not lost advanced tech
19. Material Science Limits	Copper + quartz abrasive is adequate	Quartz abrasive has Mohs hardness 7 → can cut granite at 6–7	No exotic materials needed
20. Cultural Continuity	Skills evolved over centuries	Old to New Kingdom shows incremental improvement	No sudden appearance of advanced technology

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-02T14:33:39-0600

Ripheus27 said:
It's what the doctrine of imputation is. Christ's works are imputed to us. That by itself means said to be ours. Logic leads me to understand that this makes imputation out to be salvation by our own works regardless of what the doctrine hereof was made up to explain. As for where in TPP, it's in the dialogue with Ignorance or in the second book, when the children are being catechized (IIRC).

Imputation is actually salvation by Christs works and righteousness given freely by grace to Gods elect.

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-02T14:29:54-0600

For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

Deliverance from the works of the devil 1 Jn 3:8

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philip_B · 2025-12-02T14:26:18-0600

Did Shem's Dad have a Boat?

Job 33:6 · 2025-12-02T14:20:49-0600

CoreyD said:
I did. However, you said nothing in response to it.
I showed that you are asserting that

Scriptures such as Psalm 22:18; Psalm 78:1, 2; Psalm 91:11, 12; Isaiah 6:8-10; Isaiah 9:1, 2 are not prophetic of the Messiah, which makes Jesus and his followers out to be liars, since they all said, these prophetic utterances were fulfilled in the Messiah. John 19:23-24; Matthew 13:34-35; Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:10, 11; Matthew 13:14-15; Matthew 4:12-16; Matthew 2:15, 16... as well as his people. Romans 9:25; 1 Corinthians 15:55 (Hosea13:14); Mark 7:6; Luke 3:3-6; John 1:23 (Isaiah 40:1-5);

Where the Greek scriptures quote the Hebrew scriptures, these were interpretations of the Jews, applying texts to someone they felt was the Messiah, and therefore the Greek scriptures are a farce, since Jesus did not really fulfill these prophecies... In fact they were not even prophesies. So...

Jesus is a liar, and he lied when he said I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Luke 24:27, 44 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me." John 5:39, 46

Luke 22:37 For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” is not true. This is referring to Jerusalem - Zion.

I showed you that all these texts including Jesus words speak of the words of the Prophets being fulfilled at present, or future, in the Messiah or his people.

Why did you say 'original'?
Matthew said Hosea's words were fulfilled upon the Messiah, when Joseph was told to take Jesus out of Egypt.
The fact is, when God put those words on Hosea's tongue, God is the one who had in mind the application, and for us to decide and make the claim that God meant them only for Israel in Egypt, we would have to ignore what God inspired Matthew to write, and exalt ourselves above a level of a human.
I humbly accept that God inspired Matthew to apply Hosea's words to the Messiah, because God was uttering a Messianic prophecy.

The fact is, the text in the Gospels, and the apostles writings say that the words of the prophets are fulfilled there and then, either towards the Messiah, or his people?

What you are in fact saying is that God does not use two fold prophecies, nor does he insert Messianic prophesies in the Hebrew texts, written in the Prophets and Psalms....
Did Moses really write about Jesus. Or what was that a Jewish interpretation, put as Jesus' words? John 5:39, 46

Paul quoted Hosea 13:14, as having fulfilment in the future. “Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55
Was that a Jewish interpretation?

I leave you to what you want to do here as well.
As they say in Jamaica, "I dun wid dat."

You spammed a whole lot of nothing. Where in Mathew 2:15-16 does it say anything about the original meaning being about Jesus?

There's a difference between the original meaning of a passage, and the fulfillment of that passage. Come on C, I'm sure you can figure this one out.

A passage being “fulfilled” in Jesus does not mean that it was originally about Jesus, and the New Testament authors never claim otherwise. When Matthew, John, Paul, or others cite the Old Testament, they are not erasing the original meaning or asserting that the prophets consciously predicted Christ; rather, they treat Israel’s history, experiences, and themes as patterns that reach their fullest expression in Jesus. Texts like Hosea 11:1, Psalm 22, Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 40:3 all had clear, concrete meanings for their original audiences, and the NT writers never say those meanings are replaced or superseded. Instead, they view Jesus as the culmination or climax of those patterns, not the original referent. In other words, a passage can be fulfilled in Jesus without originally being about Jesus, which preserves both the integrity of the Old Testament’s context and the theological claims of the New Testament.

RamiC · 2025-12-02T14:17:11-0600

Bobthebomb said:
Looks like I am lost.
I have been searching for a while subconsciously, which is how I found my way here.
Tonight was too much, I asked God and Jesus into my life.

Nothing. I feel more alone than ever.

Do you have a Bible?

RocksInMyHead · 2025-12-02T14:16:20-0600

Is that recursive?

AutisticAnglican · 2025-12-02T14:12:52-0600

Y'all gotta check Against Heresies by Irenaeus of Lyons

Here's a budget option from a Public Domain Translation & collects all 5 books into 1
Against Heresies

Alternatively if you want a modern translation the team at Paulist Press has the best one albeit quite expensive & the books are sold individually with the exception of Books 4 & 5 which are sold together as 1 book

Book 1
55. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Rev Walter J. Burghardt SJP, Dominic J. Unger : PaulistPress
Book 2
65. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - John J. Dillon, PhD, Dominic J. Unger : PaulistPress
Book 3
64. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Matthew C. Steenberg : PaulistPress
Books 4 & 5
72. St. Irenaeus of Lyons - John J. Dillon, PhD, Scott D Moringiello : PaulistPress

I highly recommend reading as it provides context about the early church before the 1st council of Nicaea.

Michie · 2025-12-02T14:09:57-0600

Actor Jonathan Roumie, who stars as Jesus Christ on the acclaimed series “The Chosen,” returned to “The View” Dec. 1, where he discussed meeting Pope Leo, Hallow’s 25-day Advent prayer challenge, and the impact “The Chosen” has had on others and himself.

“I don’t think it would have the same kind of authenticity,” Roumie said in response to cohost Ana Navarro, who asked if Roumie would be able to play Jesus if he weren’t as “spiritual and religious” as he is.

“I think what I bring to the role is my relationship to Christ, is my relationship to Jesus, my love for him,” said Roumie. “And so by taking on his love for humanity and trying to recreate that, it’s made me a better person. It’s made me want to love people.”

Continued below.

Jonathan Roumie on ‘The View’: 2 ‘Lifelong Atheists’ Became Christians After Watching ‘The Chosen’

Actor Jonathan Roumie, who stars as Jesus Christ on the acclaimed series “The Chosen,” returned to “The View” Dec. 1.

churchleaders.com

Ignatius the Hermit · 2025-12-02T14:07:50-0600

Richard T · 2025-12-02T14:06:19-0600

timf said:
The Irish prisoners starved to death around 40 days +.
You will die sooner without water.
The only thing I found useful about fasting is that it acts like a timer reminding yourself that you had intended to pray about something.

Mozambique pastor dies attempting 40-day Jesus fast Here is a sad story of a pastor dying without water because he tried to fast like Jesus.

I do know a pastor and some in his church that fast 21 days, and a few of them 40 of no food. I have heard a sermon from them on how to do this practically using a little bit of prune juice, and vitamin supplements. I think too that one does not start off on 40 days. I would try 3, then work it up a bit.

I personally like Kenneth Hagin's short book entitled"Commonsense Guide to fasting" https://gthinkers.org/spiritual_books/Kenneth E. Hagin A common sense guide to fasting..pdf.pdf
Basically, he talks of biblical examples in fasting and how very few are called beyond 3 days at a time. If that were to occur then the Holy Spirit would lead just as they did Jesus.

Michie · 2025-12-02T14:05:30-0600

Pastor Arrested for Allegedly Aiding Church Members in Covering Up Deadly Hit-and-Run

Juan Wilson, a Texas pastor, has been arrested after allegedly helping a parishioner hide his vehicle after the parishioner was involved in a fatal hit-and-run.

churchleaders.com

Michie · 2025-12-02T13:59:42-0600

During a rapid-fire portion of the “Room for Nuance” podcast, 9Marks President Jonathan Leeman was asked to share a belief from the last five years that he no longer holds.

Leeman was named 9Marks’ new president in April. He explained that in 2018—while speaking alongside now-President Emeritus Mark Dever at a 9Marks-at-9 event during the SBC annual meeting—he publicly allowed for the possibility that Christians could, in some circumstances, vote for a pro-choice political candidate. He said, “I think that was wrong.”

“I think it was 2018, at the SBC, we did a 9Marks-at-9, in which Mark and I on stage talked about the freedom to vote for pro-choice or pro-life candidates,” Leeman explained. “Not because we believed in pro-choice, we are both vigorously opposed to it, but we recognized or we believed that there was still space for Christians to [vote for a pro-choice candidate].” Leeman said, “There’s multiple rocks on the scale.”

Continued below.

9Marks President Jonathan Leeman: Creating Space for Christians To Vote Pro-Choice ‘Was a Mistake’

During a rapid-fire portion of the Room for Nuance podcast, 9Marks President Jonathan Leeman was asked to share a belief from the last five years that he no longer holds.

churchleaders.com

FaithT · 2025-12-02T13:58:37-0600

Michie said:
What a reaction!

What A Reaction

Kid gets statue of the Virgin Mary for Christmas ✝️ pic.twitter.com/SLjWGD2Wfi — Catholic Quotes (@CatholicQuote12) December 1, 2025

spiritdaily.org

That’s so sweet!

keras · 2025-12-02T13:58:14-0600

BelieveItOarKnot said:
unless you believe you are spiritually protected.

I do believe the Lord will protect His own, those who 'Call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved. Acts 2:21

Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10

Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.

Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.

Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.

Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.

Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.

Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.

Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.

Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.

Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.

Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.

Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.

Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defence for Israel.

Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings. Apoc.

RamiC · 2025-12-02T13:57:55-0600

Hello, welcome. There is an area here on CF that might be able to help you more, The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox .

Michie · 2025-12-02T13:54:12-0600

Podcaster Joe Rogan recently revealed more about his ongoing journey toward Christianity, explaining he has been moved by the kindness of Christians he knows at church and that he has grown convinced the Bible is not entirely mythical.

"I think they're relaying a truth," Rogan said of Christians during a Nov. 30 episode of the "American Alchemy" podcast.

“I don't think it's myth. I don't think the whole thing is myth, but I don't think it's entirely accurate either," he said.

Rogan went on to note that he was recently discussing the Book of Revelation with his daughter, and that he told her nobody knows how the prophecies in that book will play out.

He went on to say he finds the Bible fascinating, even though he remains unsure how much of it is literally true. He also said he has taken note at how kind the Christians have been at the church he has been regularly attending, which is reportedly a non-denominational church in Austin, Texas.

Continued below.

Joe Rogan finds Bible 'fascinating,' notes Christian kindness: 'I don't think it's myth'

Podcaster Joe Rogan recently revealed more about his ongoing journey toward Christianity, explaining he has been moved by the kindness of Christians he knows and has grown convinced that the Bible is

www.christianpost.com

FaithT · 2025-12-02T13:53:37-0600

mourningdove~ said:
I'm not going to attempt to analyze your situation, but I will share that thru the years I've heard numerous successful comedians talk about this very same thing ... how they can make us all laugh ... and be the funniest person in the room ... but inside they are feeling the things that you've described. IRL, they personally deal with depression, loneliness, etc.

(Some that easily come to mind are former Saturday Nite Live cast members.)

I don't know what it all means, but I share this just to say that I don't think your experience is unique to just you.

I’ve heard and read about comedians who’ve said the same thing.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-02T13:48:00-0600

Mockingbird0 said:
Nor do I know of any reliable evidence that Matthew preached in Parthia, Pontus, or Ethiopia.

It’s in the Orthodox Synaxaria. Can’t get much more reliable than that.

Mockingbird0 said:
Further I know of no reliable evidence that the Apostle Matthew is the same as the Evangelist Matthew.

I know of no reliable evidence that they were different people, nor is the idea even popular (in contrast to the idea, popular among liberal mainline Christians, that St. John the Apostle, St. John the Evangelist, and St. John the Divine were three separate persons).

mourningdove~ · 2025-12-02T13:45:36-0600

Rabbi's Daily Devotion ...

TRANSFORMED BY OUR TRIALS

For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison.
— 2 Corinthians 4:17

Jesus understood that everything in His life had a divine purpose. Even when He was facing evil plots and schemes, Yeshua knew God had a reason for allowing them, and He trusted the Father in every situation.

When we face trials or circumstances we don’t understand, it is easy to let doubt creep in and question God. Some even get angry with Him. But Jesus’ example was to trust Father God’s faithfulness and His heart, which overflows with love and compassion for us. Our God is good, but His thoughts are above our thoughts, and His ways are above our ways. We must trust Father even when we do not fully comprehend His purpose.

I know this is easier said than done. Because we see what is in the temporal realm, we often draw conclusions based on what we perceive in the natural, not realizing the bigger picture and that so much more is happening in the spirit. God has an eternal plan that is bigger than we know. When we go through earthly trials loving God and staying faithful and obedient to Him, our challenges will work to our benefit. This is why James 1:2 tells us, “Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials.” Make no mistake, beloved one: the temporary trials we face pale in comparison to the eternal weight of glory they work in us.

______________________________________________________

Rabbi Kirt A. Schneider, Entering His Presence (Lake Mary, FL: Charisma House, 2023), Used by permission.

RamiC · 2025-12-02T13:45:22-0600

You can always just ask for strength, or to be prevented from worrying. I do not know if you have done that, but it might get a result that is more effective than asking for answers directly about what to decide.

timothyu · 2025-12-02T13:29:32-0600

Benaiah468 said:
G-d's promise to the nations is that they can be grafted in to the spiritual olive tree of Israel through faith in Christ, sharing in the promises and blessings of the covenant.

As I said, yes. Btw, this whole thread has been an interesting read, thank you.

CoreyD · 2025-12-02T13:18:42-0600

childeye 2 said:
I don’t need the last word, but I do want to leave you with this --> Scripture says the will is enslaved to sin until Christ sets it free (John 8:34–36; Romans 6:18). That’s why the only true free will is the one liberated by Him. My hope isn’t to win an argument, but to point to the freedom found in Christ. It doesn't mean we're perfect, it means that in His grace, His strength is made perfect in weakness.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Now, I know you're not deaf.

RamiC · 2025-12-02T13:04:23-0600

The UK National Anthem is called "God Save the King" :scratch:

Do the police think it is illegal?

The Barbarian · 2025-12-02T12:56:03-0600

GoldenBoy89 said:
May every Trump supporter eventually come to the same realization that undying loyalty to this man gets you nowhere. He’ll eventually turn on you too.

No one associates with Donald Trump who doesn't later regret it.

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