It was amazing for me to see Starship act as a glider as she basically sat in the Indian Ocen.

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That's entirely possible. Many Christians consider declaring that they're going to heaven as being overconfident and boastful. The key bible verse for that is 1 Corinthians 9:27.

And really if Trump had declared he was going to heaven he probably would have been slammed by his critics and being overconfident and boastful. And they'd go on to condemn him for all the things they accuse him of as to why he would never make it into heaven.

2PhiloVoid said:

n'k! ................... what sort of answer are you looking for, Hans? For me to answer your question, I need to know what your criteria are for defining and measuring some ambiguous idea called "governmental beneficence."

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Good grief. For the record here is the sequence of posts:

I didn't go back far enough before clicking the reply button, so I will manually quote from post #37 by smeadly:


To which the reply was:

Larniavc said:

False premise. A government can be benevolent absent any Christianity.

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A clear rejection of the prior claim and defining the question in relation to non-christian government.

2PhiloVoid said:

And what collection of historical examples of this do you have in mind by which we who are Christian might reconsider?

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You ask for historical examples, though somehow only what a "Christian" might consider.

Hans Blaster said:

This is going to depend on how benevolent you think the US government has been through history or most of the state governments.

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And I suggested that given that the US government and the state governments (at least since some of them abandoned state churches in the early 19th century) are absent Christianity, that in looking for historical examples of non-Christian governments that you might potentially consider to be benevolent, there is a large collection for you to choose from.

I was only reminding you that could examine current and historical US and local governments for this non-Christian benevolence you are unsure if it exists. Now you are free to consider all US federal and national governments as malevolent or deficient because they are secular, but that is the question to you. I haven't asked for any particular definition of benevolent and clearly indicated for you to respond how you would use the word (or earlier posters in the reply chain) and simply reminding you that the US government and all state and local governments are not Christian.

I’m not perfect, but compared to how vile some people are, who profess themselves to be normal, have a job etc… I have no problem calling myself a saint.

And I wouldn’t know what to do here, and what the purpose of it all is, since they have the upper hand on all levels of society, unless I’m here to witness their demise. Like Jesus said, I’m going to down to see if their actions are as wicked as I have heard.

Dan Perez said:

And please give a verses ??

dan p

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The Gospel of John

Nithavela said:

As long as there is a single democratic party member left in the government, the government is tainted.

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I'm sure they'll rectify that soon!

JohnB445 said:

Which sin would be worse than murder

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And there a list in 1 Cor 6:9 and another list in Gal 5:19-21 !!

dan p

And now countries ushering in a new area with mandatory electronic ID's

fhansen said:

What orthodoxy? What legalistic perspective? You didn't really addreasss my post which simply stated what should be obvious-that those here on this thread going by Scripture alone are seriously disagreeing with each other on what constitues orthodoxy to begin with! Now, if we were going to talk about Eastern Orthodoxy, I'll pretty well agree with them on the doctrine of justification all day long, a doctrine which Luther correctly identifed as the crux of the Reformation. The real need for the Reformation was scandal, however, which was why it began. When the change was made to correcting basic doctrine the door opened for all kinds of error, error which continues to multiply and metamorphose to this day.

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Let me remind you that your church has the dubious title of being the first denomination. There are differences in interpretation among the orthodox churches, and no, I’m not talking about the EO. All churches that accept the Nicene Creed are orthodox. There is no debate about that. Your opinion of what constitutes an Orthodox Church is of little value to me.

*LILAC said:

@bèlla I'm referring to Joshua who predicted Sept. 23rd rapture and his cult followers who aren't taking no for answer. They're trying to justify their wrong/false predictions by saying "well, people are receiving the gospel!" So my question is - wouldn't that be under false pretense?

@Delvianna absolutely correct. Wheat from the tares, for sure!

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Joshua is reaching millions with his heresy and you’re discussing it here. From my perspective the larger question is what are you going to do? That doesn’t pertain to him in particular but the larger issue you’re addressing. The thread is nearly a month old and he’s still talking. When you speak of the people caught in a web are you looking at your flock? You can’t fight it from afar and must enter the battlefield as Jude explains.

Burdens present themselves in different ways. Sometimes the Lord stirs up our spirit through things that bother us or make us angry. Maybe there’s a need for people like you to debunk the lies and others are doing the same. You and @Delvianna and @peaceful-forest are raising the same concerns. Maybe you can work together. Who knows. ;-)

~bella

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the Bible, but a lot of work get put into them. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because they have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because they fear how man is going to treat them, and don’t fear God. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

People we must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

# 1 FOR //. GAR , is a CONJUNCATION

# 2 THE // HO , is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 3. HEART //. KARDIA , in. the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 4. OF THIS // TOUTOU , IS A DEMONSTRATIVE. PRONOUN. , in. the SINGULAR

# 5. PEOPLE //. LAOS. in the GENITIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 6 IS WAX GROSS. // PACHYNO. in. the. AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR

# 7. AND. // KAI , is a CONJUNCATIO

# 8. THEIR EARS // OUS. , in. the DATIVE CASE. , in. the PLURAL. , in. the NEUTER

# 9 ARE DULL // is a ADVERB

# 10. OF HEART. // in. the AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD , in. the PLURAL

# 11 AND //. KAI , is a CONJUNCATION

# 12 THEIR // AUTOS. is. a PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN. , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in. the Plural

# 13 EYES. // OPHTTHAIMOS , in. the ACCUSATIVE. CASE in. the PLURAL

# 14 HAVE THEY CLOSED //. KAMMYO. , in. the AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE. , in the INDICATIVE MOOD , means you better

believe that Israel closed their EYES , in. the Plural

# 15 LEST. // MEPOTE , is an ADVERB.

# 16 THEY SHOULD SEE // in the AORIST TENSE , is an. SUBJUNCATIVE , in the Plural

# 17 WITH ( THERE ). EYES //. OPHTHALMOS , in. the DATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL

# 18 AND // KAI , is a CONJUNCATION

# 19. UNDERSTAND //. SYNIOMI. , in. the AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , is a SUBJUNCTIVE , in the PLURAL

# 20 WITH (. THEIR ). HEART in. the DATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 21. AND // KAI , is a CONJUNCATION

# 22 SHOULD BE CONVERED // EPISTREPHO. in the AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE , is a SUBJUNCATIVE , in. the Plural

# 23 AND // KAI , is a CONJUNCATIVE. is a PLURAL

# 24 I SHOULD HEAL // IAOMAI. in. the AORIST TENSE , in. the MIDDLE VOICE , is a SUBJUNATIVE , in. the SINGULAR

# 25 THEM // AUTOS , is a PERSONAL POSSESSETIVE PRONOUN. , in a ACCUSATIVE CASE , is a PLURAL

And anyone can check and see what the CASES , VOICES , AND MOOD BY USING google .

These verses says why Israel was set aside !!

AND why we are NOT under the Law , but under Grace and are saved by GRACE , by Rom 10:9 and 10 and Eph 2:8

and why in. the BODY OF CHRIST there are NO PRIESTS. and no CONFESSIONALS. and no ANIMAL SCAIFICES and no TONGUES

and NO WATER BAPTISM and no PURGATORY. for we are not under the Law , bit under GRACE !!

And . what I. have written all can turn to ISA 6:9-12. and see. !!

dan p

Jana of the Jungle

Small groups are fine, when administered by a called and ordained Pastor/Priest.

I like this minister/teacher. It is a dispensational view, with a pre-tribulation rapture. I admit that I have not read this book, but I have listened to the 20 or so lessons from this teacher (former pastor) on the end times. He also is one of the few who have written a book on simplified theology from a Pentecostal view. I believe his views mirror the Assembly of God in most things and particularly the end times. Here is the free google preview.

This is just the start, here is a more in depth program to push global taxation. An International Financial Transactions Tax for International Public Goods

There is lots of abuse in taxation without representation. The President unilaterally selecting tariffs for instance.

Also, the Federal Reserve and their actions that create inflation is the most egregious of all. "The US dollar has lost over 96% of its value since 1913, when the Federal Reserve took over the dollar." https://charts.bitbo.io/dollar-devaluation/

Evangelicals are excellent in apologetics.

APOLO

I think the article is bunk. All you have to do is look at the state of the black churches that are political today. Are they better for all their political ramblings? The best way for the church is through getting people to God. When I got really turned onto God, I flipped parties. I went from liberal to conservative and did not need the pastor to tell me anything about what policies aligned with the bible. Is Maga policy scriptural?

Though I list some specifics off the top of my head, the premise is that MAGA Christians in government are often somewhat vulgur, condescending, unconstitutional at times, and generally not compassionate conservatives. Yes, they do some things right, a few even great. Yes, generally they are better than democrats who also have far different moral weaknesses and a poor world view. But the drive to push the political, comes at the expense of the core Jesus teachings.

Blowing up boats without a better chance to vent the occupants and facts.
Continuing to promote corn ethanol, which actually effects world markets enough to cause some starvation
Raising taxes on the poor with tariffs, while cutting taxes on the rich.
Promoting violence in some U.S. cities without the consent of the governed
Being revengeful and petty toward political enemies
Undermining the court system with constant criticism
Not following through with disclosing tax returns, Epstein files, and numerous other things.
Reversing the safety net for millions to receive medical insurance. Not even offering a GOP plan though they have said they would.
Promoting inflation through putting pressure for the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates when the 2% inflation target has not been hit since 2001.
Failing to perform their duties like the swearing in of a duly elected House member. (Thanks Christian Mike Johnson who said he would do it then reneged because it might tilt the vote to release some Epstein files).
Treating good allies like garbage, even suggesting a Neo-colonialist policy of taking over other nations.
Promoting the love of money, that we all will be rich with tariffs, that immigrants are costly, that America first, is the path to loving your neighbor?
Meanwhile many GOP and Dems are using their office and influence to gain money, not just through insider trading, but also through favors, like a Qatar airfield on USA soil right after Qatar gifted a luxury jetliner, perhaps the largest gift in USA history.
Buying corporate stock and making side deals with many companies getting favors to avoid tariffs and other regulations.
Telling the Dept of Justice to not prosecute crimes of bribing a foreign official under the Foreign Corrupt Bribery Act

The facts appear that the Christians that help run the GOP are somewhat clueless as to direct policies that will help most Americans. They themselves practice cultural Marxism, which is why they are so determined to have the power of the state to force their ideas on a population that a majority do not consent to. The Seven Mountain mandate though prophesied is based on cultural Marxism. The only difference is that the culture is supposedly Christian and you use the government to force that through the media, arts, educational system, businesses, etc. Given that part of that will does not align with what many would deem true Christian policies, how exactly are mininsters supposed to promote politicians, or policies that are found seriously wanting?

Thank you, Lismore. I'm very glad to have met you!

Paulwat said:

Lately I’ve really been struggling with anxiety and OCD, especially around intrusive fears about hell. It’s been taking over my thoughts and making it hard to get through the day. Sometimes I get stuck worrying about people I care about possibly “going there,” and other times I spiral into fear about myself.

Whenever I come across posts that talk about eternal torture or damnation, it makes everything worse — it triggers the anxiety and sends me into a loop I can’t easily escape. I know these thoughts don’t reflect who I am or what I truly believe, but they still feel so real in the moment.

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You desiring to be with Jesus, your love for Him is what your salvation depends on. You do not have to have conquered every mental health struggle to get there (although you will be freed of all suffering when you are in heaven). Fear of hell will not save anyone, love and passion for Jesus will.

There are times when my PTSD gets active when I cannot do anything except sit or rock in terror and think "Jesus help me, please help me." I have learned to tell myself that it is not me being weak or immature, when that happens my brain is in a different time, and I am, at just those times, a terrified young child. I don't know if you can or could pray during your struggles, but Jesus does understand them, He knows about everything that is in your mind, and the only reason sin bothers Him is because He loves us, it is not because He enjoys the power.

Soyeong said:

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the basics of what it means to attain character trait, what it means to have a character trait, and then to understand what the Bible specifically says about the trait of righteousness in a way that does not depart from the simplicity of that framework.

Character traits are not earned as the result of our works but rather they are embodied through our works. The one and only way to attain a character trait is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to attain a character trait is to become a doer of works that embody that trait, so it would contradictory for to attain a character trait apart from becoming a doer of that trait. More specifically, the faith by which a character trait is attained is the belief that we ought have our lives directed at being a doer of works that embody that trait.

We embody what we believe to be true about who God is through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works. In other words, the way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to have our lives directed at embody His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God we are embodying His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. This is exactly the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting an example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and it is by that faith alone that we attain the character traits of God.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he was a doer of righteous works (Genesis 18:19), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning a wage. In 1 John 3:7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works is righteous even as they are righteous, so while we do not earn our righteousness as the result of our works, there is is no such thing as someone being righteous apart from being a doer of righteous works, but rather the content of the gift of being imputed with the righteousness of God is getting to become a doer of righteous works.

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I am not sure how everything got so upside down that doing what is right doing (righteousness) is wrong and doing what is wrong-doing (unrighteousness) is right.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Abraham was declared righteousness by faith, faith does not void the law, it establishes it Rom3:31

Which we saw through the life of Abraham

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Faith is obedience and doing what is right.

Ed Parenteau said:

Then I don't know how much clearer it can be than to say "He will appear a second time" as the second coming unless you're arguing He didn't come the first time. This is a direct play off of the first appearance/coming. He literally gave His word to those who were eagerly waiting for Him, as He did to the apostles in Matthew 16 and 24 and as He did to the churches in Revelation when He told them to "hold fast to what you have until I come"
Hebrews 9: 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

As to "coming down physically": Since God is Spirit and no one has seen Him at any time, so He did not come down physically, rather He, like the angels can manifest as a man. God doesn't literally "come down" as He is everywhere, He is omnipresent. It's a figure of speech.
Psalm 139:

7Where can I go to escape Your Spirit?
Where can I flee from Your presence?
8If I ascend to the heavens, You are there;
if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there.
9If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle by the farthest sea,
10even there Your hand will guide me;
Your right hand will hold me fast.
11If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me,
and the light become night around me”—
12even the darkness is not dark to You,
but the night shines like the day,
for darkness is as light to You.​

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And just what. I . read here , PRETERISM. is not for me as. I CAN. explain. DISPENSATION. and what it means in. the

column called DISPENATION. , SEE YOU. !!

dan p

Michie said:

am grateful to OSV News for reporting on my concerns about the USCCB’s granting of an imprimatur to the New Revised Standard Version updated edition (NRSVue) Bible. I appreciate USCCB Scripture scholar Father Pablo Gadenz responding directly to my concerns. But I found his responses unpersuasive, and I still think the imprimatur should be withdrawn, for the reasons below.

First, a recap for readers unfamiliar with the issue. The updated edition of the NRSV, the flagship Bible of Mainline Protestantism, was published in 2022. Protestant Scripture scholar Robert A.J. Gagnon (who literally wrote the book on The Bible and Homosexual Practice) immediately flagged it for having “gaywashed” the “clear reference to homosexual practice in the offender list in 1 Corinthians 6:9 (and 1 Tim 1:10 where the same Greek term appears).” I wrote a Catholic Answers article shortly thereafter arguing that the USCCB should not grant an imprimatur until those two verses are fixed. Two weeks ago I wrote a column for Catholic Culture on the announcement that the USCCB had granted an imprimatur to an NRSVue, Catholic Edition, with no change to those verses.

You can read Dr. Gagnon’s 2022 post here and my Catholic Answers article here. You can read my Catholic Culture column here and the OSV News article here. I also discussed the issue in an appearance on Steve Bannon’s War Room, which you can view here.

As OSV News reports, the “primary translation” of the Catholic Church in the U.S.—the one we hear at Mass—is the New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE). The NRSVue, Catholic Edition, has been approved only “for private use.” So it’s not a big deal, right?

Wrong. For several reasons. As one commenter recently noted at the Catholic Bible Talk Blog:

Continued below.

“Gay-Washed” Bible’s imprimatur should be withdrawn. Here’s why.

The NRSVue, Catholic Edition, has been approved only “for private use.” So it’s not a big deal, right? Wrong.

www.catholicculture.org

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I have stayed away from any of the NRSV bibles. I will stay away from this one in particular. I have no issue with the RSV or the RSVCE or RSVCE2 by Ignatius Press. Their new study Bible is in fact something I greatly recommend as a best in a generation kind of thing.

guevaraj said:

Brothers and Sisters, I can think of one scripture that addresses how to keep the Sabbath in Barrow Alaska.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Here is the context where it becomes clear that Jesus is not the Sabbath as understood in the mistranslation of the passage in the King James Version corrected by the New Living Translation that follows.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. GOD ANNOUNCED THIS THROUGH DAVID MUCH LATER in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now IF JOSHUA HAD SUCCEEDED IN GIVING THEM THIS REST, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT ANOTHER DAY of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Get into God's rest, I'll say Amen to that

I asked chatGPT what God's rest was. It gave a super long answer

Closing with a scripture
Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need - Hebrews 4