Most of us bow.

The Liturgist said:

The Kingdom is not really the subject of this thread though, but the unbiblical “kin-dom”, an idea potentially heretical since God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, three uncreated coequal and coeternal persons sharing the uncreated essence of the Father, ever one God, has no equals; there is no one like God, and His ways are inscrutable.

That said God does have a human mother and human relatives thanks to the the Incarnation, for God the person of the Only begotten Son and Word did take on our human nature by being born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Theotokos, and thus became consubstantial with us, as reflected in His name Emanuel.

Thus in rejecting the idea of the kin-dom we are rejecting the rejection of the Kingdom and of equality with God and not the idea of biological and consubstantial kinship with God, and also of tampering with the Lord’s Prayer, the Our Father.

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The word "kin-dom" is not in the Bible, but it is used by some Christians to replace the word "kingdom" to emphasize community, relationship, and inclusion rather than a patriarchal hierarchy. "Kingdom of God" is a biblical term, but "kin-dom" supporters believe the alternative language better reflects how Jesus' teachings focus on a family-like community, based on justice, love, and mutual support

Personally I'll stick to kingdom.

Every relationship, no matter how strong, eventually faces moments that shake it. Misunderstandings, old wounds, sharp words, unmet expectations—these can leave us feeling disconnected from the people we love most. It’s tempting in those moments to assume the story is over… that what was once warm has gone cold for good.

But the Christian story insists on something radically hopeful: love can be healed. Not in a quick-fix way, not by ignoring the pain, but by letting God step into the mess with us.

That truth sits at the heart of Doug Hinderer’s compassionate book, Rekindled Hearts: A Spiritual Journey to Marital Healing. Hinderer, a licensed therapist and marriage coach, walks couples through a simple—but powerful—path: acknowledging hurt, seeking forgiveness, and slowly rebuilding trust. His message is realistic yet full of hope, reminding us that healing isn’t about going back to “how things were” but moving forward into something deeper, stronger, and more honest.

Healing Begins With Honesty​

Continued below.

Strong in Him said:

What evidence do you have for saying that teachers, parents, scientists, textbooks, astronomers etc have been indoctrinating us?

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One could make a long list about common topics of indoctrination, but living on a globe is not one of them. For example, The Food Pyramid would be an interesting place to start.

essentialsaltes said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-14/ponzi-schemer-who-got-trump-clemency-faces-50-years-in-new-fraud

MSN

Trump commuted Eliyahu Weinstein's 24 year sentence in the Pardonpalooza at the end of Trump 1.0. After his release, he stole another $44 million from his suckers and has now received a brand new 37 year sentence.

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At that point I have no sympathy for the people still giving him money. Set him free, their money is safer in his hands.

Servus said:

If one wants to go with argument from silence regarding the complete absence of what supposed to be a crucial component of Christianity,

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Arguments from silence are logical fallacies, you do realize that? Indeed I was going to begin my prior post explaining how your argument about St. Paul not discussing the Theotokos relies on an argumentum ex silentio and is thus fallacious, when I saw you posted this.

Valletta said:

You left out the part about the receptionist being behind the secure glass:

"A senior official familiar with the incident said an early review shows the man went upstairs to the U.S. attorney’s office and told the receptionist, who was behind secure glass, that he was there to speak to Habba."

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OK, they were in no danger. Is that relevant? Have you been to a federal courthouse?

US army veteran who received Purple Heart deported by ICE to Mexico​

An army veteran and Purple Heart recipient who served two tours in Iraq was deported on Friday morning from an immigration detention facility in Florence, Arizona.

Barco’s father was a political dissident in Cuba who spoke out against communism, forcing his family to flee to Venezuela in the 1980s. Four years after Barco was born, his family entered the US with asylum, and were later given lawful permanent resident status.

Barco, 39, served 15 years in prison for a felony conviction of attempted murder.

Barco was released on parole this January after serving 15 years due to good behavior. Upon release, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement detained Barco and took him to a detention center in Colorado.

BCP1928 said:

You obviously travel in different circles than I do--most of my family and friends are Democrats who lean left, as does my Church, but I just don't hear that much about critical theory. nor am I aware of it having much influence on my life. It just doesn't seem like a bogeyman to me.

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I'm non-partisan and an equal opportunity critical thinker, and I do my best to avoid running like a lemming in vicious circles or sit in selective echo chambers that both the Left and the Right all too conveniently and insistently provide for everyone.

So, if someone out there thinks I've "othered" them in some way, maybe they need to put the Tik Tok down and read more widely---maybe they could start by reading, "Screwtape Proposes a Toast."

Bradskii said:

How can you not understand that post. If you buy corn, it's going to come from Iowa. If you buy oranges, they'll likely come from California. Some basic foodstuffs that you buy can be home grown. But check out your pantry. I literally just walked into my kitchen and 5 of the first 6 things I looked at were from Pakistan, China, Italy, UK and Thailand. Put tariffs on those and they'll cost me more.

I'm typing this on a Dell laptop. They are made in the US but the components all come from all parts of the world. Every tariff on each country (which YOU will pay) means I will pay more for it. My T shirt was made in Vietnam. The tea I'm drinking now is from Sri Lanka. I just made a salmon sandwich for lunch. The salmon comes from Canada. I made the bread from Australian flour but the yeast comes from China.

We bought a new barbeque yesterday. A Weber. Some are made in the US, but some in China and Taiwan. Possibly using steel from Australia. If the US puts a tariff on our steel, then Weber in the US pays more for it to make them, then we'll place a tariff on your goods and the importer here pays yet more again.

Look, you are locked into the international trade to an extent which is difficult to convey. Arbitrarily messing about with tariffs on a whim, which is what Trump it doing, messes with world trade. Everyone suffers. Because we live in a global village. And when all the deals are done, all the tariffs are paid for, all the extras for the dongles and gizmos and materials and foodstuffs that you import are paid, the prices will rise and it's you who'll be paying the extra.

Plus, you completely avoided this: 'factory employment has dropped by more than 40,000 jobs since April, while the ISM index of manufacturing activity fell in October for the eighth month in a row.'

Trump told you that the tariffs would bring manufacturing back to the US. It didn't, it isn't doing it right now and it won't in the future. He lied to you. Did I really need to have to point that out to you?

He said tariffs wouldn't raise food prices. It did, it is now and it won't change until he removes the tariffs. Again, he lied to you. It's what he does.

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Ford backs President Trump’s new auto tariffs, calls them a win for America​

150-plus saves a lot of potentially future victims. Well done!

linux.poet said:

The common verse cited is this one:

Romans 10:14-17 said:

14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.

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The point of the theological training schools is to proclaim the Gospel in accordance with the Great Commission.

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Well I would ask you then, "Whose Great Commission"? The Pharisees were proclaiming their gospel through their preachers who were "trained" in their theological schools since the wicked Kings of Israel. The RCC embarked on their version of their Great Commission, through men that were trained in their theology. Mormons engage in the exact same practice, to grow their religion. Calvinists do as well. JW's do the very same thing. SDA, the exact same thing. Each religious sect promoted by their theologians who build training facilities to further "THEIR" theology, which differs from the theology being promoted by the school across town. I understand perfectly the Tradition as it is widespread in the world God placed me in. What I was hoping for was the source. "Where it came from".

Paul and the 12 Apostles were picked by the Lord's Christ Himself to further the Gospel as defined in the Holy Scriptures throughout the entire world. Paul didn't "choose" between the different religious schools or theologians of his time. He studied Scriptures, in my understanding. He taught, by the Spirit of the Christ, for me to "Study to show myself approved". Didn't he mean to study the God Inspired Holy Scriptures that he preached to others were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works?

Consider that I have Moses and the Prophets, I have the teaching of the 12 Apostles with instructions to believe them because they were chosen by the Lord's Christ Himself. And most importantly, I have the Sayings of the Christ Himself. And I have all their God Inspired Words that God had written down for me, in my own home, in my own heart. Doesn't Paul teach that this is all I need "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.? Isn't this what God Promised in the Prophesied "NEW Covenant"?

"And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."

What person in North America doesn't have access to the Oracles of God, just as God promised? For me, this is a most amazing miracle and proof of the Trustworthiness and Power of the God of Abraham. I am personally awestruck by the absolute reality of this truth, in my life.

linux.poet said:

The schools train and send missionaries and pastors to churches, both unique jobs with unique challenges. For example, missionaries to Papa New Guinea have to acquire the ability to make an oral language into a written one, educate the tribal people in literacy, and translate the Bible into it, among other things. Pastors need to be trained in exegesis, Hebrew and Greek, and public speaking, admin, etc. It’s a matter of practicality rather than competition.

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I truly appreciate your candor and thoughtful post. I mean no offence to anyone, but would simply hope to share what I see as reality. For the purpose of sharing my understanding.

Consider the "Great Commission" underway even now in New Guinea.

"The Papua New Guinea Union Mission", established in 1972, is the administrative body of the Seventh-day Adventist Church which has oversight of the entities and activities of the Church in Papua New Guinea.

The Catholic missions in New Guinea have a rich history, dating back to the 19th century. The first missionaries were the London Missionary Society in 1871, followed by Marist missionaries in the 1880s. These missions played a significant role in the education and healthcare of the local population.

Brother Kegawale Biyama, a member of the Papua New Guinea Branch Committee, released the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in the Hiri Motu language. The program was prerecorded at the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Port Moresby and streamed to viewers on November 28, 2020. More than 7,000 people tied in to the program.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Papua New Guinea refers to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and its members in Papua New Guinea (PNG). The first missionaries arrived in 1980. As of December 31, 2024, there were 41,268 members in 96 congregations, making it the largest body of LDS Church members in Melanesia and the fifth largest in Oceania.[4]

The real and tangible occurrence of the Jewish Revival in Papua New Guinea represents a unique opportunity for both the Jewish people and the State of Israel to both clarify and explore its own roots, priorities, history and religious direction. For on this small island just a few miles above northern Australia there are the rumblings of both a Jewish renaissance and a Zionist mission; there are Jews that had lost their Judaism and now desire to return to their Mosaic roots and tribal peoples that claim their Judaism to stem from the Ten Lost Tribes.

The Baháʼí Faith in Papua New Guinea begins after 1916 with a mention by ʻAbdu'l-Bahá, then head of the religion, that Baháʼís should take the religion there.[1] The first Baháʼís move there (what Baháʼís mean by "pioneering",) in Papua New Guinea arrived there in 1954.[2] With local converts the first Baháʼí Local Spiritual Assembly was elected in 1958.[3] The first National Spiritual Assembly was then elected in 1969.

The people of what is today Papua New Guinea and West Papua traded with China and the Malay empire, the latter of which was Muslim, beginning in the 16th century.In 1988, Muslims in Papua New Guinea set up the first Islamic center, with the help of a Malaysia-based Islamic organization and the Saudi Ministry of Islamic affairs. In 1996, three more Islamic centers were established, with the help of the Muslim World League. There are now seven Islamic centers in the nation. The first mosque was built in Port Moresby, with a capacity to hold up to 1,500 worshipers.

You say it's not a competition. And emotionally I can see how adherents to each religious sect would not believe their adopted religious sect is in a competition with others to grow their religion.

But when a man turns away from the religions of his fathers, and follows the instruction s of those we know are chosen by God to teach me the Gospel, it's pretty clear that this world's religions have become a massive competition between themselves to convince the masses to fill the seats of their own respective shrines of worship, and contribute financially to "their" specific religious sect.

While the Church of God as defined in the Holy Scriptures, consisted of only 8 people in Noah's Time. Caleb and Joshua were the only two out of 600,000 men, that believed in God from the heart. The Church of God, or as Jesus put it, "the narrow Path" has never been about numbers of supporters. While the religions of this world must grow and create wealth to build the schools to train others for the purpose of growing and create more wealth for building more schools to train even more and on and on and on.

I cannot find anywhere in the Holy scriptures where God, Jesus or His chosen Apostles promoted such a tradition.

Now I mean to offence toward anyone, and I am not judging anyone. I am posting the realities of the religious system of this world God placed me in. And I cannot find where the Church of God, as defined in the Holy Scriptures, was ever directed to partake of such traditions.

linux.poet said:

Because in Bible Church land, nobody (really) cares. You’re a Jew and you chose to accept the Gospel because you agree with the Sons of Zadok? That’s better than ending up in Gehenna, props. We don’t care if you leave us to join the SDAs. What bothers us is if one chooses to reject the Gospel, that’s a problem.

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I would respectful disagree. It seems to me that the "problem" is that every religious sect promotes a "Different gospel", and each one is convinced theirs is the true one, no different than the Pharisees vs. the Sadducees, in my view. And this because men adopt the religious views of one of this world's theologians over another. You don't believe "Miller" was inspired by God. In other words, if I read your posts right, It is your belief that Miller and White "Transformed themselves into Apostles of Christ", in their attempt to be like Paul and the Apostles. As Paul teaches;

2 Cor. 11: 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found "even as we". 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

So who are the founders, the theologians of this world's religious sects? Augustine, Luther, Russell, Smith, Wesley, Calvin, Miller, White, etc. All of these men have "transformed themselves into apostles of Christ". We have zero evidence to the contrary. But Paul and the 12 Apostles didn't "transform themselves into Apostles of Christ", as it is written, "I chose you, you didn't choose me".

So these things are true. And Jesus Himself SPECIFICALLY warned me to Take Heed I am not deceived by, not by atheists, Islam or even satan worshipers. But by "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord, who Come in His Name teaching that HE, Jesus, is the Prophesied Messiah.

So that is why I question this religious tradition choosing a religious sect of this world, then paying them to teach me about God, when God has already given me His Oracles, and the teachers profitable to teach me "doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

We shouldn't hide from these things, rather, we should shine the LIGHT on them, as it is written, for the purpose of discerning if they are wrought in man, or God. At least in my view.

I would like to continue in another post. I Hope you don't mind.

jonojim1337 said:

There’s no Galata in Missouri.

View attachment 373236

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Near independence right?

stevevw said:

I have been thinking about the current political claimte and how people are being cancelled and even killed for their views. Is street preaching or declaring the gospel in public now a dangerous occupation.

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Yes and in some places, worse than others. Like, I wouldn't street preach in the middle of Tehran. But specifically to western countries, I think it's getting worse and you just don't know which person is going to listen to the spirit of Satan when he tells them to go kill the preacher. The more a society moves away from Christian values, the darker and more hard hearted that society becomes, which means you're going to see evil become more and more apparent. I think if you're going to street preach, trying to hold a 1 on 1 conversation would be wiser than taking a speaker and a microphone and screaming loudly.

Perpetual Student said:

Do we understand it correctly that wanting child molesters behind bars is "left" now?
What is then "right"?

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I guess it is this guy:


(just the first article I found on Bill "the Leauge" Donohue, the man who pretends to be an organization and definitely defends priests that are worse than Epstein.)

Fantine said:

He attributes this not to hunger for power but to not having the cognitive awareness of how the U.S. government, which he leads, works.

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It was clear in Trump 1.0 that he didn't know how the government works. But he had people around him who did, who mostly kept the president's crayon colors within the lines. This time, he has purposely surrounded himself with people who don't know or don't care (or both) how the government works.

So I don't see that particular point indicates and degradation of faculties. He never had that one.

Assurance depends on where we stake our claim. If we think that it is our faithfulness, our obedience, our emotional connection, etc, that is central to our salvation we will inevitably waver. it is only when we realize that salvation depends not on us, but on Christ, that we can begin to truly have assurance. It is in the letting go, and letting God, that we may have confidence. Though we are faithless, He is faithful.

Clare73 said:

There are several numbers of significance in Scripture. . .10, 1,000, 12, 144, 144,000. . .

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Of course, I'd forgotten 12 x 12 = 144 - Thanks.

Maria Billingsley said:

Many believe that Adam was made perfect but in fact he was made "very good" in the eyes of God, not perfect.

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God Himself bound everyone to disobedience, Romans 11:32

Adam and Eve were no exceptions

Jesus even shiws us HOW it happens in Mark 4:15

Maria Billingsley said:

God also made Adam with " free will" to choose that was also passed on to Eve.

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Uh yeah, only if you completely eliminate the tempter within them from the equations. Which of course is illegitimate sight. All have sin. Sin is of the DEVIL

You just forgot

Maria Billingsley said:

So it is no mystery that they both " chose" to indulge on fruit that the deceiver promised would give them great power to be like God.

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God clearly said the serpent did it. Did you miss that detail?

Maria Billingsley said:

The fall was their choice where God's sovereignty included His desire to test His creation once in place. The agape love He seeks from His creation started here.
Blessings

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There was no choice involved.

God always meant for there to be a first natural person and THEN a second person made a spirit. 1 Cor. 15:42-56

First the natural, and after, the spiritual

That's His Program. No choice of our required

An interesting thread. May I ask questions to better understand your point?

Are you saying that tradition was decimated at the departure of Christ, so ancient traditions are suspect?

You also seem to say that there are overseers worthy of double honor. What qualifies one as an overseer? Are you advocating sola scriptura for all believers, or must we acknowledge that there are overseers worthy of double honor?

Sorry if I misunderstood you, peace be with you

Dan1988 said:

What sort of fool would make a such a ridiculous claim, "that hell is God's choice for some".

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I'm not making the foolish claim, but if one believes in predestination in the manner you seem to, that man has no say, no choice in his eternal destiny, then the only conclusion available is that God makes the choice for him. And Calvinism, from my understanding, makes that very claim, that God predestines the reprobate to hell="double predestination", as it's called.

Dan1988 said:

It sounds like the same teacher told you that "hell is the absence of God", that's another demonic doctrine. The Bible says that God is in hell, tormenting sinners with fire, so the sinners see Him. I'm not going to give you any more verses to confirm the above statements, but they are all biblically sound, you can search the scriptures to see for yourself.

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And while the bible isn't crystal clear on this, it's pretty darn near to it. So, for those past 2000 years it's been well enough understood that God, Himself, is what makes heaven heavenly, and separation from Him is primarily what makes hell what it is: punishment. Even man's present misery is already attributed to the lack of union with God which will be totally overcome only when we meet Him "face to face" in the next life.

"He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed." 2 Thess 1:8-10

JulieB67 said:

Yes, he can certainly do "both"

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You do understand we ALL engage our adversary, the tempter, in our own minds

You merely have a surface fleshy sight of people only

If you saw the unseen other agent you'd accept eternal damnation spoken to your own face, and understand it is meant for that adversary....and

You'd REJOICE to HEAR those Words of His

Go up to your house in peace
1 Samuel 25
NRSV