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Phil G · 2025-11-20T07:44:31-0600

Jerry N. said:
Saying the Bible uses “poetry and metaphor” does not fully explain the problem. We are not writing about Song of Songs. Of course, we could argue about the meaning. If I say the sun moves from east to west, it is not actually a metaphor, even if I know the earth is moving and not the sun. It is describing what I actually see. Moses could see the firmament and the “waters” and he merely described them. The “waters” could be any number of things that Moses didn’t have words for or could understand, or just water. Job and Jonah are poetry and metaphor in describing the earth. In all cases of ancient cosmology, the relationships between the gods and the creation are the key teachings. In the case of Moses, he is focused on God being the creator of all things and in a relationship to mankind. Our God is not some local deity pretending to be a planet. Our God is creator of all things, who brought them into existence and organized them both physically and spiritually. Moses wasn’t thinking about the scientists of the 21st Century, he was revealing the essence of the Almighty. This was new and important.
Edit: I might also add that there is a huge difference between Cosmology and Astronomy.

Yes, I was just simplifying the matter. If I was to explain better, I’d write similar to you. But then I’ve done such before and all she generally dies is pick on sentence and argue about, or try to be smart about it

d taylor · 2025-11-20T07:42:01-0600

biblelesson said:
Matthew 7:13 was a warning to those who professed Jesus, but depended on works.

So, how does a person believe on Jesus for eternal life if eternal life comes by way of Jesus?

Another way of asking this question; if eternal life is given only by One, and that is Christ, then how does my believing on Christ affords me the responsibility of giving myself eternal life?

John 3:15 KJV
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

We are commanded to believe on Him - and through our believe, we receive eternal life from Him. Yet, to believe on Him is not simply a mental agreement that He is the savior and my sins are forgiven. It’s more than that! To believe on Him is to believe all of Him, to include obeying His words, which we learn we cannot obey Him due to our sinful nature. However, He, by His Spirit, must live in us so that we receive His Power to obey, and to be conformed to Him, His image, to express Him in us - then we are children of God!

This is why the gospel tells us to put off the old man and walk according to the Spirit, among other commands - it is the gospel of Christ that is the Power of God unto salvation.

So, how does a person believe unto eternal life without understanding the gospel requirements for salvation? So to say we are to believe unto eternal life is incorrect.

People cannot just say because they believe on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

Through Jesus death and resurrection, and our believing on Him, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, for our inheritance into the Kingdom of God.

Without this sealing by the Holy Spirit, we are not the sons of God. Some who say they believe are sealed - they are the wheat. Some who say they believe are not sealed - they are the tares.

Jesus said let the wheat grow with the tares - and the angels will separate them in the end.

We can talk, preach, cry, try to be good, feed the poor, do all manner of good works, from now until dooms day, and without the Spirit in us - the Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead, we will not receive eternal life. It is by the Spirit that we are sons of God:

John 1;12 KJV, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name".

Romans 8:14 KJV, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".

When we speak about eternal life, we must let people know the importance of having the Spirit, because without the Spirit we cannot belong to Jesus no matter how much we profess him and tell ourselves our belief is unto eternal life - Romans 8:9 KJV…”Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

-

You must be some kind of Calvinist and believe in that nonsense, if so i am not going to continue the discussion. It is a waste of time.

I say that because of what you wrote here.
People cannot just say because they believe on Christ they are believing unto eternal life - then they would be giving themselves the credit for eternal life. But, eternal life don’t belong to man, eternal life is given - and without the Spirit of Christ, we cannot receive eternal life.

NxNW · 2025-11-20T07:37:35-0600

Hentenza said:
Didn’t get the joke? Oh well.

The joke was your claim that immigration was a problem. We know that's impossible with Trump's wall.

stevevw · 2025-11-20T07:36:46-0600

The bible speaks a truth, a law unto nature. Christ delcares the same truth. That God created male and female and that will become one flesh in marriage. The act of sex is within marriage.

So if God delcares that man and women become one flesh in marriage then SSM is not Gods law or nature. That it is not Gods law or nature then it is not of God. The simple coming together in SSM is defying Gods law and nature.

Christ may not have named every sin but He did declare Gods law and nature in marriage.

But we don't have to even go to the bible. If marriage is between a man and women and is Gods law and nature then it should aligned with nature. Psychologically a child needs a mother and father. So SSM denies a child a parent. Gods law and nature is that man and women create a child and need a father and mother in upbringing.

But also sociologically. The breakdown of marriage and families has broken down society. There is a rising epidemic of single parenthood and fatherless boys. The stats are clear that the fundemental issue is the breakdown in the family unity.

The ideological belief that SSM is exactly the same as Gods marriage is a lie. The feminist idea that women are better off without a man and need a career over motherhood is a lie. The idea that women can abort babies because its their choice is a lie.

These are the lies told to people that are destroying society.

So you don't have to make an arguement for why Gods law and nature are truth. They just are. You can declare them and leave it at that. People can tale it or leave it. Its simply declaring Gods law and order like we would declare the truth that Christ is the Son of God. Or Gods laws that thou shall not kill or steal are truths full stop.

By declaring it a truth it stands opposed to all other claims of truth for marriage. Take it or leave it. Its as simple as that. Like the adulterous women.It was Gods law that sex was reserved for marriage. Christ told the adulterous women that her sins are forgiven and no one judges her. But that was because she believed on Christ and no longer was subject to the law. Part of that was she sin no more and followed Gods laws.

Dikaioumenoi · 2025-11-20T07:33:26-0600

zoidar said:
Maybe you should have this discussion with a Koine Greek scholar? It would probably give you a better answer than you get here on the forum.

One does not need expert credentials to follow the syntactical case I've presented. One only needs a willingness to engage the text itself. That, so far, has been the missing ingredient in this thread.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-20T07:28:22-0600

Apple Sky said:
@Warden_of_the_Storm Thanks for all the reactions you've really bumped my score up

And you accused us of only caring about reactions!

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-11-20T07:24:16-0600

rjs330 said:
If you support a givernement that does not outlaw homosexuality then that contradicts scriptural teachings. And your commitment to scripture is questionable. See how that works? If you support a governement that allows no fault divorce then your commitment to scriptural teachings is questionable.

I'm glad you recognize Christ's teaching is for his followers and not a governmental mandate. That being said I believe we can do both. We can treat illegals humanely and still deport them as fast as possible. There certainly have been questions regarding the conditions the illegals have been held in. Although I have yet to actually see these conditions. The illegals have been arrested, so as long as their detention status is no different than the typical inmate of a prison, then I don't have any issues with it.

Give them food, water and medical care as needed and put em in an 8x10 cell until they are deported. Even Jesus didn't tell believers to release all the prisoners.

I see you recognize that supporting a government which does not prohibit homosexuality be seen as inconsistent with biblical teachings. So , why don’t you understand that endorsing a government that treats individuals inhumanely is also contradictory to these values.

Deporting half a family to another country while leaving an eight-year-old child in America is not humane. If you believe otherwise, our views on humanity and the love Jesus taught differ greatly.

If you think it's humane to deport a man who came to the United States at age five, has lived here for thirty years, and now force to leave his wife and child behind for a foreign country he doesn't know, then our understanding of humanity and the meaning of Jesus' love differ greatly.

Christians cannot separate government responsibilities they support from individual adherence to Gospel teachings. Whether in their homes, churches, communities, as individuals, members of a church, part of a larger community, or as a nation, practicing the teachings of Jesus is expected in daily life. Distinguishing between personal and communal application does not align with the principles taught by Christ.

Christians who adhere to the teachings of Christ in their personal lives but support governmental actions that contradict those teachings will be reminded by Jesus on the day of judgment, "I never knew you."

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

linux.poet · 2025-11-20T07:24:00-0600

Ephesians 5:11-12 said:
11 Do not participate in the useless deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.

A traumatic childhood, a bad forum website (not this one), two good forums incompetently run (also not this one), and so on. Everywhere I go, I peel back the layers of lies, corruption, problems, and issues. The first round was peeling out my dad’s lies and exposing his deeds of darkness. It is this rejection of evil that broke my mind for awhile as I kept going. I couldn’t go along with what other people were doing, and that led to avoiding a lot of wasted time and bad relationships that could have eaten up my life.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-11-20T07:21:03-0600

9Rock9 said:
So, do you think the Bible is completely without error in everything it touches on?

I do believe the Bible is infallible, but idk if I would go to say that it is entirely without error on matters of history, details, etc. The point is to point people to Christ. It's not meant to be a collection of raw information to mine through.

I do think Scripture is God breathed, but unsure whether I lean towards verbal plenary inspiration or dynamic inspiration.

What about you?

My view, being informed as it is by Historiography and the Philosophy of History, doesn't require invoking a qualifier like "inerrant" in order to value the literary contents of the biblical books and hold them as authoritative. In other words, inerrancy is not only a highly debatable term in relation to the Bible, but in my estimation, it's not even needed.

Bob Crowley · 2025-11-20T07:18:14-0600

Reminds me of the joke about church divisions.

A ship was sailing past a remote island in the middle of the ocean when they saw a bloke trying to get their attention.

They sent a boat to the island and found he had been marooned by himself for twenty years!

But he'd built thee huts. They asked him why.

He explained that one was his house, another was his church, and the third was the "church I used to go to."

d taylor · 2025-11-20T07:10:17-0600

David Lamb said:
I agree that God is alive, and so before He began to create, He was the only life. However He did create life "outside" of Himself when He created plants, animals and mankind. I understand that when Christians talk about the origin of life, they are talking of created life, not saying that God had a beginning.

-

God is life, God did not create a separate and different kind of life for these plants animal humans etc.. There is only one kind of life and it come from God. Just ask Ananias and Sapphira who ceased to live immediately, God took His life from them.

Pepperdoodle · 2025-11-20T07:09:48-0600

Chesterton said:
Just about 24 hours ago I admitted I was wrong about a fact I'd posted.

I said "change my mind".
Not referring to saying a fact was wrong on something, but I'm referring to things like:
I'm prochoice, but then they changed their mind/heart and I'm now prolife or.....yes I believe trans is real, but then they changed their mind/heart and now admit it's not.
Big things, life decisions on topics, staunch adherence/loyalty to a wrong thing, an ungodly thing, etc.
Those are the type of things I'm referring to.....not, oh, I got that fact wrong on something.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-20T07:09:22-0600

rambot said:
I kind of understand this sentiment. But what does it practically mean?
Should they be working towards making their lives ACTIVELY worse in an effort to win over conservatives?
Are they supposed to just stop talking to them too?

At this point, all the dems are functionally doing is saying "we don't hate you and we think you should have rights".

How low does the bar need to be set?

As a practical matter, I don't know. Probably it was the pronoun mandate that was a bridge too far.

rambot said:
I find it interesting that you think decoupling from LGBT is the way to go but not decoupling from the 1%.

When did I say that? It would be the very first step, the step that the Berniecrats have taken already, along with a more generalized stand on individual rights. AOC took her "preferred pronouns" off her websites the day after Trump was elected.

Valletta · 2025-11-20T06:54:19-0600

Valletta said:
US Rep. Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick of Florida indicted on charges of stealing $5M in disaster funds

U.S. Rep. Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick of Florida has been indicted on charges accusing her of stealing $5 million in federal disaster funds and using some of the money to aid her 2021 campaign, the Justice Department said Wednesday. The Democrat is accused of stealing Federal Emergency...

www.yahoo.com

All that power and wealth that comes with being a member of Congress seems like it was not enough.

There is more detail in the Justice Department press release:

The indictment alleges that the defendants conspired to steal that $5 million and routed it through multiple accounts to disguise its source. Prosecutors allege that a substantial portion of the misappropriated funds was used as candidate contributions to Cherfilus-McCormick’s 2021 congressional campaign and for the personal benefit of the defendants.
The indictment further alleges that Cherfilus-McCormick and Nadege Leblanc, 46, of Miramar, arranged additional contributions using straw donors, funneling other monies from the FEMA-funded Covid-19 contract to friends and relatives who then donated to the campaign as if using their own money.

South Florida Congresswoman Charged with Stealing $5 Million in FEMA Funds and Making Illegal Campaign Contributions

MIAMI – A federal grand jury in Miami has returned an indictment charging Congresswoman Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick and several co-defendants with stealing federal disaster funds, laundering the proceeds, and using the money to support her 2021 congressional campaign.

www.justice.gov

chevyontheriver · 2025-11-20T06:52:27-0600

johnnypapa said:
Father Bux to Cardinal Cupich: The Liturgy Must Elevate Us to Divine Truth and Beauty

Father Nicola Bux writes an open letter to Cardinal Cupich critical of his recent public criticism of the Traditional Latin Mass.

edwardpentin.substack.com

The good cardinal may not be able to comprehend this sage advice. Prayers that he may.

Postvieww · 2025-11-20T06:42:30-0600

Fantine said:
Release the Epsteon files.

This is happening are you sure this is what you want?

Oversight Committee

@GOPoversight
·
Nov 18
Hakeem has been on a media tour the last few days on Epstein, but refuses to condemn Stacey Plaskett. Epstein documents reveal that Hakeem's consulting firm reached out to Jeffrey Epstein to arrange a dinner between them. Is "Brooklyn's Barack" telling us everything he knows?

johnnypapa · 2025-11-20T06:16:09-0600

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen

Say it aint so · 2025-11-20T06:12:38-0600

DaisyDay said:
It's worse than I thought!

Tyler Lemons is a great name, btw.

Apparently the indictment of the antagonist of Trump's hoax claim of a Russiagate hoax, was itself a hoax.

johnnypapa · 2025-11-20T06:06:34-0600

How do you see death? Do you long to one day depart this life and go home to God? St. Paul wrote to the Philippians of his longing to leave this world. He was not suicidal; he just wanted to be with God:

Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me life is Christ, and death is gain. If I go on living in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. And I do not know which I shall choose. I am caught between the two. I long to depart this life and be with Christ, for that is far better. Yet that I remain in the flesh is more necessary for your benefit (Phil 1:20-23).

And Death Is Gain: A Reflection on the Proper Christian Sense of Death - Community in Mission

This is the third in a series of articles on the Four Last Things: Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell. Yesterday we pondered the fear of death and some understandable reasons for it, but we also considered how a lack of lively faith can lead to a fear of death that is unchristian. As St. Paul …...

blog.adw.org

johnnypapa · 2025-11-20T06:01:00-0600

Is calling the day we die the greatest day of our life too strong a statement? I have seen some fellow Christians wince at it. In this age of emphasis on worldly comforts, medicine, and the secular, we rarely speak of Heaven—or Hell for that matter. I wonder if we have lost some of our longing for Heaven and cling too strongly to the trinkets of this life.

On the Fear of Death - Community in Mission

This is the second in a series of articles on the Four Last Things: Death, Judgment, Heaven, and Hell. For us faithful, the day we die is the greatest day of our life on this earth. Even if some final purification awaits us, the beatific vision for which we long lies just ahead; our exile …...

blog.adw.org

johnnypapa · 2025-11-20T05:57:57-0600

It was a wonderful moment in American history for the handsome young man to begin serving the Lord as a newly ordained priest. During his years in seminary, he had listened closely to his formators, who taught him to shepherd his future flock with joy, love, and a welcoming spirit.

The Strange Path of Fr. Joe

By Kevin Wells - Fr. Joe was a typical Catholic priest. But then something changed.

crisismagazine.com

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-20T05:45:57-0600

DamianWarS said:
Then please clear it up for me. what is the list of laws a believer is to keep? Because I can't figure it out based on your rhetoric.

It could literally be written out by God and people still wouldn't believe. And He literally did just that.

Nithavela · 2025-11-20T05:41:59-0600

mark46 said:
Yup

Perhaps you think that Trump should have taken Biden's moral high ground and given up on peace in the Middle East, as Biden did.
============
Let's be very, very clear.

In both terms, Trump is doing more to bringing us closer to peace in the Middle East than anyone since Jimmy Carter.

FIRST TERM
The Abraham Accords were a huge, huge move forward. Arab countries were finally accepting Israel's right to exist as a country. Also, as a side discussion the Arabs and Israel agreed that the enemy was Iran and the terrorists that they financed throughout the region. Trump made the Arabs and Israel see common cause. Trump also had them understand the business benefits from having peace between Israel and the Sunni Arabs.

IN BETWEEN
crickets from Biden
Hamas started a war
crickets from Biden

SECOND TERM
Trump again made peace in the Middle East his #1 priority. Trump supported all of Israel's efforts to remove the terrorist threats in the region and their efforts to greatly disable Iran. Trump then got the Arabs to look the other way as Israel continued to be aggressive in killing Arab terrorists and also so many Palestinian citizens in Gaza.

Trump finally bombed Iran! He then got Israel to agree to a peace deal and to implement the first steps.

Hooray! Trump bombed Iran!

So peaceful.

johnnypapa · 2025-11-20T05:39:59-0600

What value might there be in teaching a congregation to sing Latin hymns or Mass responses? First, Latin is the language of the Church. Papal encyclicals are written in Latin. Prayers and hymns in Latin serve to unite the faithful, reminding us that we are part of a universal Church whose members join us in prayer. Singing and praying in Latin, we echo the prayers of our fellow Catholics throughout the world, and of our forefathers in the faith from past generations.

The Return of Latin and Why It Matters – Catholic Stand

catholicstand.com

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