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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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Discussion 2: Adam...with some of Eve (God's Word to Women book)
- By Zceptre
- Egalitarian Christians
- 2 Replies
Not to assert any particular view of my own, but I can definitely state this is what the Luciferians / Satanists teach their people, and they call it an "androgenous" being. It is in their books and their claim to why they convert their male children into females and females into males at a young age. It is their "religion" and they say that "god" (lucifer / satan / baphomet) is this way and that is their basis for calling themselves "gods" like Satan told Eve that "ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (KJV - "ye" meaning her and Adam, plural version of "you" meaning both) in the garden if she ate the fruit. This is also where the baphomet comes from having parts of both genders and being an idol that is a pagan "god." The greeks were notorious for their men dressing as women. You can see this in some of the movies made these days where the men are wearing wigs, and the scenes clearly showing it is a wig depicting them putting it on and taking it off etc.
Some people think God took an actual rib from Adam's side, some assert that God took half of Adam and the translation was inaccurate. It's been so long since I studied it I can't even recall the details on the Hebrew wording and the Septuagint might offer some insight being translated by scholars in the Jewish OT world, but I don't know how much. Christ actually read and taught out of the Septuagint being that it was the prominent language in His time and era while on Earth and they were under Rome. People were more fluent with greek than they were with hebrew at the time and so the Scriptures were greek in the temples (the Septuagint version). I found this out from a passage that Christ quotes about praise being perfected in babes (children). I think He was quoting Psalms ch 8 but don't quote me on it. Would have to reach back into files, I just remember the stun I got realizing the Messiah was reading greek translations of Scriptures and thinking how could I not know this.
Yeah, we often get more insight than we know. This has happened to me a number of times where I go back and while I'm reading God shows me something that "should have been obvious" but wasn't the first umpteen times around the block. I feel confident God showed me (I'm more than confident within myself, but I can't prove it to others so lets just say confident) what the forbidden fruit was. There were a number of different angles that the revelation made sense, but it is kind of "in your face" that once they ate the fruit the snake didn't just "stop talking." More so, he was after that incident inside their head and chirping in their ear accusations and ideas and who knows what, as they were suddenly vulnerable to evil having engaged with it. (like playing with weegee [yes I spell it that way
] board and suddenly evil things start showing up and voices etc)The nature of evil is to drag others into the evil and then (if there are parents involved, and there is, God the Father) send the children back to their parents with a "token" of what was done to them, or what they were involved in to "stick it" to the parents that they had been corrupted. So when Satan convinced them to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the next sly move was to tell her that she could cover her nakedness (what they were suddenly afraid of being seen for, realizing they were naked - "knowledge of evil" / "loss of innocence") if she just used leaves from the very tree she had eaten the fruit from (fig). Satan thinks this is funny and gets a good laugh of it, sending the two of them back to God covered in leaves from the tree they weren't supposed to eat from as a jab and statement... "Look what I got your children doing."
Now, like I said, I can't prove this, but I've had a large number of talks about this with God and it gets more interesting the more you start to realize how crazy Genesis is and the kind of situation it was and how much more information is there if we listen to God and open our eyes to details that seemed insignificant. It's downright insane some of the things we miss I think sometimes.
People will say "oh but that is so foolish." Well, yeah, that's kind of the point. They were struck with fear, they had just pulled one foolish move (understatement there) and anyone that has been a child knows what happens once you are terrified because you pulled a dumb stunt... you start to make other dumb decisions because you are consumed by fear. So eh, it can be up for debate but over the years it has just sank in deeper for me.
We also know that Satan didn't scurry off and hide after he pulled the trick on Adam and Eve because God was speaking to Satan right after Eve pointed out that the serpent tricked her and she ate the fruit. So maybe she even pointed to him physically. I almost think he was standing nearby laughing when God showed up. He is said in the Bible to be proud and the only one willing to "stand up" to God, being the pride (or foolishness, thin line right?) that makes him bold and go before God and challenging God like in the book of Job.
Yes, this is one of my more favored subjects, especially because lots of people consider this all metaphorical these days, but I know it isn't. It literally happened just the way it says and the more literal you realize it is, the more details start jumping out and it gets intense. Almost like a drama tv show but a million times better. (not that I like drama, but knowing the truth is addictive once revelations start dropping)
I don't think there was any sin before the tree eating episode, no. Not from my vantage point for sure, I just can't see where that could ever be possible. I believe considering the notion of it leads one down an entire rabbit trail of hypothetical situations that just exist in imaginary land and derail from seeing what was actually going on. God obviously dealt with the situation immediately and showed His necessity to punish (justice) and yet still had mercy (made skins to cover symbolizing Christ's blood being shed for them and us). I think this is a clear portrayal of God's character in the behavior without Him really having to say much at all, being that what He done speaks for itself. He also did help them after they fell as well though, like Cain, God helped him even though he didn't listen to God when God told Cain that if he simply done what God asked (sacrifice of blood / representation of depending on being humble and accepting God's work to save us/them - versus - being prideful and trying to save oneself through offering one's own work to God)
Cain was being helped, but instead of listening to God's advice, he simply got jealous (attribute of Satan, jealousy of God lead to his fall, pride) and got angry, and decided he would kill his brother and get rid of the competition. So with God trying to help Cain, I'm sure He continued to help everyone from Adam and Eve down even after the fall that would turn to Him and who would not outright rebel.
I don't think that it is quite so simple to blame everything on Eve. 1 Timothy 2:12 - 1 Timothy 2:13 - 1 Timothy 2:14 seem to suggest that she is to be blamed by some people, but I don't think it is blame being stated at all but being deceived like it says. If Adam was not deceived then he ate the fruit willingly when given to him by Eve and I don't really know how that could be much better. At one point I considered it the ultimate act of love, that Adam done it purely because he loved his wife. Then later it dawned on me that Eve was suddenly endued with the ability to be deceptive and seductive (knowledge of evil - sinner wants others to sin with - experience teaches this more clearly) and so it seemed she tricked him kind of to me (if reading between those lines in that thought pattern). But the Scripture actually states that it was not Adam who was deceived in 1 Timothy 2:14 meaning from a literal standpoint of interpreting the Scriptures he simply must have deliberately disobeyed God because he was losing his wife who he loved. She must have been afraid and that must have played a part in his choice, because they both were terrified due to being naked and realizing it from eating the fruit, so Eve must have realized this first and been afraid when she showed up to Adam with the fruit. I don't think he was clueless that "something was wrong" and I don't think she was acting normal. I think she was acting like a child does when they have been tricked by another person to do something bad and have awareness that they are going to get caught.
Also, God started with the Serpent in reverse order dealing with them all (opposite of the accusation order - God asked Adam first - then Eve - then Satan). So God goes to Adam first... not Eve, even though she ate the fruit first. It certainly isn't the case that God "didn't know" that Eve ate the fruit first, and yet He asked Adam first, "...called out to the man, "Where are you?" (Genesis 3:9). Then after the accusations, God starts with Satan declaring the consequences and when He gets to Adam the hammer drops. God says it is because of Adam that "the ground" is cursed because of Adam, that the world, the Earth is cursed because of him. Sounds like blame to me, without getting into technical details, just seems a bit obvious. But like mentioned already, I think we all miss even obvious details the first few times around.
Satan - is cursed, goes on belly, eats dust, and hatred between him and the seed of the woman (war) and defeat
(curse is all on the individual)
Eve - pain in childbirth, desire for husband [footnote says or desire to control husband], husband will rule over her
(curse is all on the individual)
Adam - cursed is the ground (Earth / world), will have to work to eat now, thorns now from plants, will return to the ground back to dust
(curse is on the entire world)
I think anyone blaming Eve might be missing God's determination of the situation. I think God is blaming Adam and very clearly so.
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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)
- By linux.poet
- Sabbath and The Law
- 184 Replies
I disagree with you on this. Sin is dynamic, a function of our relationship to God. The reason why breaking the Ten Commandments is sin for the unbeliever is that those commands are given to them to show that they cannot follow them. They also do not change because God’s holiness is immutable.
As believers in Christ, we are held to a higher standard than the Ten Commandments, which is the teachings and commands of Jesus. I stand before God every day in my inadequacy and awareness of my sin in the face of the Holy Standard Christ laid out in Matthew. I am under grace for this failing. That is what “under grace” means.
Do you not believe in the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 5:21-48? That takes the Ten Commandments and makes them more potent. Example:
Matthew 5:21-26 said:
Are we not Christians? Should we not follow the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ? The point of these commands is “to be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) To fall short of God’s perfection is to sin. The fact that these enhancements follow certain Decalogue commands and commands in other parts of the Law is no accident.
When I accepted the Gospel I submitted to Christ as my authority, not the Decalogue or other Mosaic Laws. Incidentally, I do follow most of the Decalogue, but only insofar as Christ taught from it as a basis for what he wanted his Disciples to do and learn.
This doesn’t contradict my definition of sin, because said definition also doesn’t change.
This doesn’t contradict my definition of sin either since the Ten Commandments are all God’s commands.
This definition of sin also does not contradict my definition because faith is trust in a God we cannot see. What does not procede from faith is sin because when we don’t trust God we act against Him to test him, and thus we commit sin. Trust in God will result in obeying God’s commands.
This is a mistranslation of that verse.
1 John 3:4 NRSV said:
1 John 3:4 NASB said:
If you translate the verse properly, it does not contradict the definition of sin that I posted previously. Laws are made of commands, so if you reject God’s commands you reject God’s Law and created order and sin against God. If you reject all laws, you reject God’s law, for God is a God of Law and Order.
Keeping the commands of God is not a curse, even though my fallen nervous system might try to convince me otherwise. Why post this? Is not following the commands of God how we worship Him? This statement seems to contradict the entire context of the presented argument.
1 John 5:3 said:
Do we not also have to obey the directions of other humans whom we are in relationship with? Bosses, husbands, friends, parents, siblings, pastors, etc. In order to be in relationship with someone in real life, we have to be willing to work with them and follow their commands. We are all God’s sons and daughters.
Romans 8:14 said:
Galatians 3:26 said:
Imagine a little boy learning to repair a car with his daddy. The little boy has to follow his dad’s commands in order to learn the task, because that’s how our nervous systems work. But it is not a burden to the little boy because he trusts his father. In the same way, we trust God and His commands to retrain our fallen brains to be like Christ, Our Savior and Lord. We are conformed to the image of His Son. (Romans 8:24)
This refers to the teachings of Christ, not the Decalogue.
Right, and the face that observance of days is on the personal choice list means that whether I observe the Sabbath or not is a personal choice.
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History
- By sjastro
- Physical & Life Sciences
- 1320 Replies
All you have confirmed is an inability to read and comprehend.
There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History
lol I forgot there are certain trigger words. Like a word suddenly is what makes reality. Just mention the word and it all reality becomes the word. Like the word has magic powers. Not about "trigger words" its about you sloppy writing. If you don't mean "new age sprituality" don't use the term...
www.christianforums.com
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