New Posts

BCP1928 · 2025-11-12T08:08:54-0600

Pommer said:
Suddenly, social-Darwinism is cool.

Yeah, and it always did seem odd to me that religious groups most likely to reject biological evolution should be so aggressively social Darwinist.

Michie · 2025-11-12T08:04:42-0600

ABUJA, Nigeria (Christian Daily International–Morning Star News) – Seven Christians, including a 12-year-old boy, were mourned on Saturday (Nov. 8) after they were killed in an attack in Kaduna state, Nigeria, the same day Islamic extremists burned homes and a church building in Borno state.

At a funeral in Damakasuwa town, Kauru County in northwest Nigeria’s southern Kaduna state, hundreds of people including many from outside the area attended the service for the Christians slain on Oct. 31 by Fulani herdsmen and other terrorists, residents said.

“We have laid to rest seven of our beloved Christians who were killed by terrorists and Fulani herdsmen,” area resident Daniel Dodo told Christian Daily International-Morning Star News. “The funeral is a ceremony of tears being shed by Christians in the midst of deliberate violence against us because of our Christian faith.”

Continued below.

Christians Killed in NW Nigeria, Homes Burned in Northeast

Seven Christians, including a 12-year-old boy, were mourned on Saturday (Nov. 8) after they were killed in an attack in Kaduna state, Nigeria.

churchleaders.com

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-11-12T08:04:05-0600

Nithavela said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/10/trump-proposes-50-year-mortgage-but-homeowner-savings-could-be-minimal.html

I think this is a wonderful idea. You get to save some money per month, and when you die halfway into paying back your mortgage, your legacy lives on.

I understand my kind of conservatism no longer exist today.

But back then when my kind of conservatism existed , we used to think should not intervene in matters between individual citizens and banks.

bbbbbbb · 2025-11-12T08:00:59-0600

Michie · 2025-11-12T07:59:47-0600

Later this month, my daughter Veronica turns 14. As she and I debate whether to celebrate with just family or her school friends, my thoughts turn to another girl who was 14 when her world shattered. Her name is Leah Sharibu, and she has now spent more than seven years in captivity, held by the Boko Haram since February 19, 2018.

Leah was kidnapped along with 109 other schoolgirls from their school in Dapchi, Nigeria. While most girls were returned, five were killed. Her captors kept Leah because she refused to renounce her Christian faith, threatening to hold her as a slave for life.

The contrast between my daughter's life and Leah's could not be starker. While Veronica debates birthday celebrations in safety and freedom, Leah has endured unspeakable horrors. As U.S Commission on International Religious Freedom Commissioners Maureen Ferguson and Dr. Asif Mahmood noted in a recent commentary, there are indications that Leah is still alive, though she most certainly has suffered unimaginable abuse. As for her family, “Leah's parents pray daily and light candles on her birthday each year in the hope that she will be reunited with them someday.”

Continued below.

Nigerian schoolgirl Leah Sharibu still captive 7 years later: When will the horrors end?

Leah Sharibu has now spent more than seven years in captivity, held by the Boko Haram since February 19, 2018

www.christianpost.com

Fervent · 2025-11-12T07:55:50-0600

Hans Blaster said:
Did you emerge from a jar of honey, or are you a regular human like the rest of us. Your confusion on the topic of where humans come from is baffling.

Do you not understand the meaning of the word "ultimately"?

Hans Blaster said:
Why should morality depend on what a god is made of?

What better option do you have?

Hans Blaster said:
I must conclude that there is no discussion available with you. You have made it clear that you hold that morality is a brute fact of reality because your god exists and because that is why morality exists, morality must be objective (as your god has no apparent mind to which morality is subject) and perhaps absolute. You will not even discuss with in any other possible framework or consider even a divinely imposed subjective (to the god) morality.

Sure, but you hold that morality is sheer subjective opinion and expect that to be taken seriously. So what hope was there for discussion to begin with?

Chesterton · 2025-11-12T07:52:55-0600

Couldn't help but think of these two songs:

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Hentenza · 2025-11-12T07:40:25-0600

HARK! said:
None of them were. Most were directed at the Ger Toshav.

They all are

Nonsense. None of them were. As I stated and posted most of the epistles are addressed at Christian churches NOT at Jewish congregations.

HARK! said:
Irrelevant.

How so? It is totally relevant.

HARK! said:
Mistranslation. The word translates to assembly. I have already proven that. Repeating the mistranslation again, does not legitimize it.

Nope, You can’t just hone on one possible translation. The context is against you. I doubt that Paul would address those at a Jewish congregation as saints and then proceed to exhort the gospel and Christ work on the cross. Israel in general rejected the messiah do they are not even in the equation until they accept Christ. There is only one way to the Father and Israel us yet to repent.

HARK! said:
Again

And again

and again

and again

Nope.

HARK! said:
Yes, the Greek word is ekklesia; and as I have proven, it means assembly.

You have not proven that at all. Assembly is only one possible definition but the context negates your assertion.

ἐκκλησία ekklēsía, ek-klay-see'-ah; from a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):—assembly, church.

While it could be an assembly it could just as well be a Christian community or church. In the context of the epistles the context is clearly that of a church.

“to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3‬:‭21‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 3:21 to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

bible.com

Glory in the church and in Christ. This could never apply to a Jewish congregation since the Jews in general rejected Christ.

HARK! said:
The believers in Yahshua are the assembly of Israel.

Nope. Accept Jesus as the Messiah first until then they have no way to the Father. They need to repent because the kingdom of Gd is indeed imminent.

HARK! said:
Again Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel. That is what Yahshua said himself.

And then they sent Him to be crucified. In fact they chose the thief over Him.

““Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭37‬-‭39‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 23:37-39 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you | New American Standard Bible -

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you

bible.com

Israel will see Him no more until they come to Jesus. They have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

HARK! said:
The renewed covenant is with Israel. That is what YHWH himself said himself.

The old covenant is dead. There is no renewal.

HARK! said:
I'll thrust them over you unsubstantiated opinion.

I proved it many times over. Your opinion does not count.

HARK! said:
All of Israel accepts Messiah. If they don't accept Messiah; they are not part of Israel, no matter what they claim.

“Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘A stone which the builders rejected, This has become the chief cornerstone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes’? Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit. And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and on whomever it falls, it will crush him.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21‬:‭42‬-‭44‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 21:42-44 Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘A STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’ | New American Standard Bible -

Jesus *said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘A STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’

bible.com

Israel rejected the stone that became the cornerstone and the Kingdom of God was taken away from them.

You have no way to prove your assertion.

HARK! said:
Again, the renewed covenant is with Israel.

Again, nope.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-11-12T07:38:53-0600

linux.poet said:
Given the amount of times that Israelites are rebuked for being “stiff-necked”, I tend to think that it’s a liability. My “stubbornness” was something my adult companions tended to rebuke me for as child.

Over and over, I’ve been told that being open to new ideas and giving careful consideration to them before rejecting them is a good idea. That way I have a logical or Scriptural basis for what I reject that I can defend in the court of public opinion. In addition, I have also been conditioned to just ignore any hard disagreements where the person will not change and just walk away rather than continuing to get frustrated and angry. I work around and accommodate the disagreement or just act in accordance with my viewpoint to heap negative consequences on them (this only works IRL).

But: is this type of morality Biblical/Scriptural? Or is it just secular programming from the American state that works for adults’ convenience to insert knowledge into kids’ heads and keep them under control?

While I have to concur that New Testament faith obviously requires commitment, I think we'd be remiss to insist that "zeal without knowledge" isn't something the Lord or His apostles placed a value upon. If anything, they discouraged that sort of disposition.

Bob Crowley · 2025-11-12T07:36:38-0600

It would have been pointless trying to teach it the bagpipes - it would have thought it was another octopus.

Bob Crowley · 2025-11-12T07:28:40-0600

This extract on Habakkuk is from "The Collegeville Bible Commentary" which is a Catholic publication.

Date

The prophecy is to be dated sometime after the Babylonians became an active threat against Judah but before their destruction of the city of Jerusalem in 587 BCE. Habukkuk's serious complaints about violent injustice among the people in Judah suggests sometimes in the reign of Jehoiakim (609-597 BCE), a king despised by Jeremiah for his abuse of power at the cost of much suffering by the poor and defenseless. Jeremiah declares that he will be given the "burial of an ass" (Jer 22:12-19); (see also 2 Kgs 23:37). Certainly chapter 3 qualifies Habbukuk to be numbered among the "cult prophets", who functioned at the temple; chapters 1-2 may leave some clues for a liturgical ceremony.

Themes

Several major religious motifs thread their way through the prophecy: God's absolute trustworthiness; God's control of the universe; our inability to understand adequately the mysterious ways of God; our failure to fathom the mysteries fo the universe and the colossal struggles of nature and politics; God's detemination not to tolerate violence, begotten by pride

I've highlighted "our inability to understand ... " since more trouble was to come. Habbukuk expressed his faith in God's overall justice, but not long after he gave his prophecy, he would most likely have witnessed the sack of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and the beginning of the 70 years of captivity. His faith would have been put to the test.

Michie · 2025-11-12T06:55:56-0600

New research reveals which U.S. states are the most and least charitable during the Christmas season, a time often defined by generosity, approaches.

A study compiled by WalletHub and released on Monday ranked U.S. states from most charitable to least charitable, based on two categories: the amount of volunteering and service that residents of each state engage in, as well as the amount they donate to charity.

Factors that influenced a state’s score on volunteering and service included the volunteer rate, number of volunteer hours per capita, the share of the population that does favors for their neighbors, the amount of money that people would lend their neighbors in need, the share of the population that collects and distributes food, the share of the population that collects and distributes clothes, the share of the population that fundraises or sells items to raise money, and the share of the population that engages in general labor.

Continued below.

Which states are most and least charitable? New study answers

New research reveals which U S states are the most charitable and least charitable as the Christmas season, which is often defined by generosity, approaches

www.christianpost.com

Maria Billingsley · 2025-11-12T06:40:00-0600

The Barbarian said:
According to The Bulwark, Trump’s social media company quietly rolled out a new “AI-powered search tool” just weeks after he signed an executive order banning so-called “Woke AI” in the federal government. The irony? Trump’s own AI isn’t just “woke” — it’s wide awake.
...
Did Trump’s tariffs cost Americans money? “Yes.”
Did he lie about the 2020 election being stolen? “Yes.”
Was January 6 Trump’s fault? “Yes.”
Has he ended any wars since returning to office? “None.”
Have grocery prices gone down? “Short answer: No.”

Trump's Truth Social AI chatbot keeps fact-checking him

The AI bot, built with a version of Perplexity, continued to correct the president's claims.

www.newsweek.com

What a concept! Truth.

wing2000 · 2025-11-12T06:39:18-0600

....now that the House coming back to work after their 60 day vacay, I'm sure the House Committee investigating Biden's Auto Pen will get right to work.

wing2000 · 2025-11-12T06:36:44-0600

chevyontheriver said:
There is no great way to DO that, though I suspect the Soviets always had timely budgets. I do favor new parties to replace the train wrecks we have, but that’s up to voters who rather like their particular train wreck to oppose the opposite brand train wreck.

Yes, it's a complex task....but somehow state governments manage to get annual budgets done.

It's madness to be shutting down the federal government anytime the minority party wants to make a political point.

"There have been 15 funding gaps since the Civiletti opinions, including the government shutdown that began on October 1, 2025. Since many of those funding gaps occurred for a brief time, or over a weekend, there was not widespread government disruption. Four of those funding gaps, however, lasted four or more business days and broadly impacted government operations. The longest of those four shutdowns lasted 34 full days, from December 22, 2018, to January 24, 2019."

A Brief History of U.S. Government Shutdowns

Government shutdowns (and the threat of them) are a recent phenomenon and something other developed countries don't contend with.

www.pgpf.org

....and this one will be 45 days.

contratodo · 2025-11-12T06:28:42-0600

prodromos said:
They don't see the sun "above" them

They very much do see the sun above them, watching the 360 view of the TFE shows that clearly, I'm going off of the videos provided in this thread, not the top of my head. Clearly, very clearly the sun is above them the whole time.

Ok, here we go dear ones, these images are in response to hopefully much of whatever questions have been asked by anyone that I did not read just yet, please look over these images carefully and really think.

The question for thought is in the second picture.

The "flat earth" stance I subscribe to is biblical, so the earth is not a flat disk floating in "outer space" rather, the land is in water covered by a dome, outside of the dome is more water, more ocean, the ocean outside the dome is more violent, but we are not under it. The water is coming from the throne of God that is on top of the dome, it flows down and around the dome constantly filling and expanding the outside ocean.

In this case, given the 24 hour video, we see the path the sun takes, at first it is farther away from them, as it makes its way left and behind them, it is closer to them, as it goes around it goes back out a bit farther, but it stays visible to them the whole time, because of where they are in relation to its path. As I hope everyone can see, in this case a sincere flat earth depiction explains what is seen better than the globe model.

Christsfreeservant · 2025-11-12T06:15:59-0600

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

“We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth.” (Colossians 1:1-6 NASB1995)

And who are the saints? They are the faithful in Christ Jesus. They are all who, by genuine biblical faith in Jesus Christ, which comes from God, and which is gifted of God, and is persuaded of God, and which is not of our own doing, have been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin, but as servants of God and of his righteousness, in walks of obedience to our Lord’s commands, in holy living, by the grace of God, and in the power of God.

We are God’s holy people. And to be holy is to be separate (unlike, different) from the world and its sinful desires, because by faith in Jesus Christ we are being conformed of God to the likeness of character of Jesus Christ in all of who we are and speak and do, for the glory and praise of God. And this does not make us absolutely perfect in every respect, and it does not mean that we will never sin against God (1 John 2:1-2). But it means that we are no longer living in sin and in disobedience to our Lord and to his commands.

By the grace of God, and in the power of God, we are walking by faith in our Lord Jesus Christ in obedience to his commands, and we are no longer walking in sin. Sin is not our master. Now we may be tempted to sin, at times, so we need to resist the devil and flee temptation and draw near to God in full assurance of faith. And then we need to put on the Spiritual armor of God so that we can stand strong against the schemes of the devil whose goal it is to destroy us in any way that he can (Ephesians 6:10-20).

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

So, this is an encouragement to all of us who are faithful to God in our walks of obedience to his commands, and who are not living in sinful rebellion against our Lord as our habit, our practice. We are to be those who love one another and who do good to one another, as God calls good. We are to show compassion to the hurting and to encourage the downtrodden and the lonely. And we are to help one another to grow to maturity in our walks of faith in obedience to our Lord, and to help one another to resist temptation to sin.

For that is part of what it means to be in Christ. All of us who believe in Jesus Christ, in truth, and in righteousness, are his ministers. We are to be ministers of the gospel of Christ to the people of the world, and to the worldly church, too. And we are to be those who speak the truth in love to one another so that none of us will be led astray by false doctrines taught by people in their cunning and craftiness and deceitful scheming, and by the deceitfulness of sin, and so we will all walk worthy of God and of his grace.

[Matthew 5:13-16; Matthew 28:18-20; John 4:31-38; John 13:13-17; John 14:12; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:14-18,42-47; Acts 26:18; Romans 10:14-15; Romans 12:1-8; 1 Corinthians 12:1-31; 1 Corinthians 14:1-5; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:1-16; Ephesians 5:11-21; Ephesians 6:10-20; Philippians 2:1-8; Colossians 3:12-16; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 10:23-25; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 2:9,21; 1 John 2:6]

In Harmony

Based off Romans 12:9-21; 1 Peter 3:8-17
An Original Work / September 2, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Love each other truly.
Cling to what is good.
Hate all that is evil.
Never lack in zeal.
Serve the Lord with fervor.
Joyful in hope be;
Patient in affliction;
Praying faithfully.
Honor one another.
Live in harmony.

Share with all God’s people
Who are found in need.
Do not be conceited.
Sympathetic be.
Love, and show compassion
In humility.
Keep your tongue from evil.
Peaceful you must be.
Honor one another.
Live in harmony.

God sees who are righteous;
Listens to their prayers.
But He’s against evil –
Is His to avenge.
Do not fear what they fear.
Suffer patiently.
In your hearts, make Christ Lord.
Serve Him faithfully.
Honor one another.
Live in harmony.

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The Faithful in Christ Jesus
An Original Work / November 12, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

ViaCrucis · 2025-11-12T06:00:49-0600

A New Dawn said:
We can only hope.

This is treason in the highest and HRC and Obama should be in jail.

If we end up with Trump as a forever president, as dictatorships go (though at his age "forever" is a stretch) don't worry you'll probably get your dream of imprisoning political opponents and dissident voices.

And all of us anti-Trump folk will get to live out our lives in concentration camps and reeducation centers.

Daddy Trump will make the "leftists" pay for exercising their constitutional guaranteed free speech. Because in Trump's America, dissent is the same thing as treason.

MAGA utopia at its finest.

Dan1988 · 2025-11-12T05:47:42-0600

Light of the East said:
The Greek texts are the original texts of the scriptures. According to what I have read, Greek culture had permeated the world and the language was used frequently in the culture. I have to laugh when you accuse the Greeks of bringing pagan beliefs in to the translations, since the very idea of a god who would burn his enemies forever without mercy is exactly that - a pagan belief!

There is a difference between ending life on this earth and torturing someone without mercy. Just because a life is ended on this earth does not mean that it is not an act of mercy. When you use the word "elect" I get a whiff of that nasty heresy called "Calvinism" which in itself presents a God who is a monster, since only a monster would create sentient beings for the sole purpose of suffering forever without relief. Reasonable human beings don't even do that, yet Calvinists without shame present God who is worse than the best of mankind. Sheeeesh!!

We know plenty about Him because Christ is the revelation of the Father to us. Therefore, anything that is less than Christ is not a true representation of God. Now tell me that Jesus would ever sanction the eternal torture of people. Stand at the Cross and say that.

I was not raised in Orthodoxy. I left Calvinist heresy years ago and only recently converted to Orthodoxy. All other denominations are teaching things that are not found in the original writings of the Early Fathers of the Church. I assume you do understand the difference between truth and error?

You have read lies, because the original scriptures are not in Greek at all. Greeks didn't exist when the OT was written. The only reason some of the NT was written in Greek was because Greek was a common language 2000 years ago, because Greece was located at the crossroads of the major trading routs 2000 years ago.

So the truth is, many traders from different countries traded inn that area so they learned Greek to make trading easier for everyone. Bu the sad reality is the Greeks have always been pagan, and most still are to this day. So we can dismiss your Greek Orthodox heroes as religious hypocrites, just as the Scribes and Pharisees were who Jesus identified as the " children of the Devil".

I notice you reject what the Lord Jesus taught, but you embrace the heretics who deny the doctrine of hell, (which Jesus taught).
I notice you deny the bible doctrines of "election to salvation" and "Reprobation", (which the Lord Jesus taught), but you embrace the teachings of the heretics who reject what the Lord Jesus taught.

You can accuse God of being an evil monster, but God is not mocked, because every man will reap what he sows.

Normandt · 2025-11-12T05:35:04-0600

Homily Thursday, November 13 2025

32nd OT

Ws 7:22 – 8:1

"Wisdom is the reflection of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of God."

"Wisdom is the radiance" of God's Love and intelligence, it passes through all hearts and leaves joy and peace in its path.

Lk 17:20-25

Jesus says: "The coming of the kingdom of God cannot be observed."

This has the merit of being clear. We cannot observe the kingdom of God. Jesus tells us this in every possible way. All his messages lead to this reality. With earthly examples, we cannot touch God, the kingdom of God.

Each person must take a further step to enter the kingdom of God:

Realizing, accepting, and welcoming joy and peace within us means constantly returning to the Love of God and remaining in it.

Let us welcome God's life, love, joy, and peace within us. In this way, we are with God, who is always with us.

Let us observe and listen within ourselves; God is there.

Biblical texts: NAB-RE

Normand Thomas.

Bob8102 · 2025-11-12T05:15:49-0600

Doubting again.

If I am not willing to be crucified with Christ, I cannot be saved.

What perplexes me is that some people hear the gospel, immediately believe in a saving faith way, and go on their way rejoicing. Like the Ethiopian eunuch.

To me, being saved, living the Christian life and walking the Christian walk means being unbearably squashed. What is perplexing to me is that the NT talks about the “joy” of a believer.

There are paradoxes in the supernatural realm. One has to do with free will versus election. Apparently, these are two sides of the same supernatural coin. Both are true at the same time.

Another paradox is the concept of salvation in a moment versus the daily walk. As Delvianna said, faith is something to be done CONTINUALLY. To me, that means: mess up at any point and you are out the door of the kingdom. But the NT talks of conversion-in-a-moment and the security of the believer. It also says, those who persevere to the end will be saved.

Between my own unwillingness to be crucified and the paradoxes, I am blown away by the gospel.

Douggg · 2025-11-12T05:14:00-0600

keras said:
God will not save anyone who hates Jesus.

keras, the Jews attitude toward Jesus is going to completely change. Also, do you know that modern day Jews (Judaism) consider Jesus a "failed messiah" ? They don't "hate" Jesus. They just don't believe that he is the messiah, nor do they believe in the gospel of salvation in Christ, nor do they believe that Jesus is the LORD their God.

keras said:
Scripturally impossible.
Jewish Israel is very well defended. Gog will attack an undefended people.

The land of Israel, as a nation, was desolate until the Jews returned following WWII, Israel is not capable on its own to defend itself against the size of the Gog/Magog attacking force.

Look at Ezekiel 38. Does it say that Gog/Magog is going to attack a nation that formed following a solar flare event that destroyed it's previous population ?

Desk trauma · 2025-11-12T05:02:39-0600

Always manage to hit the talking points, no matter how unrelated.

BelieveItOarKnot · 2025-11-12T04:55:34-0600

fli said:
The New Testament begins when Jesus died. All that is said does not apply to the church. In Matthew 23:9 Jesus is speaking to the Israelis of His time on earth.

I know that position is taught, but that's not legit.

Jesus advised us that man shall live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

What this means is that elimination of the Word of God based on historical referenced time frames or to whom said words were spoken to isn't legitimate. There really are deeper meanings behind every Word that apply to everyone.

Some people are "led" down your dead end because they can't remedy such matters as law vs. grace, so they toss the law entirely aside.

No prophet, Apostle or Jesus did such things, nor should we.

fli said:
Exodus 4:22 Israel was set aside as His people, His bride, and His children. It was not until the NT that we discovered not all Israel was Israel.

Jesus, Paul, John and Peter tell us quite clearly who was with Israel that was not Israel in scriptures such as Mark 4:15, Romans 11:8, 1 John 3:8 and many many others.

You do realize that we all engage the tempter or his own, internally?

fli said:
Not all people on earth are His children. After Jesus died only those who believe in Jesus and walk in the Spirit are His children.

Jesus advised us that we ALL have One Father: Matt. 23:9

Some of the positions you are tossing out are clearly not orthodox in any way. Some minor and irrelevant side sect of some sort more than likely.

fli said:
When did I ever mention any recipes or incantations? Please show me just where I cited anything other than scripture to justify my conclusions. Since you have accused me of this, I do expect you to prove it.

Already have and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't bury your responses to me at the bottom of your responses to other posters.

fli said:
I never said that Jesus was saved by His works. Jesus saved His body, the church, by His works.

You just did it, again.

fli said:
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. NKJV

Jesus suffered death, which He could have avoided as He never sinned. He suffered death so those who believed in Him did not suffer eternal death. Because He died in obedience to the Father's wish, God gave Him the right to save the world. He chose to save all who believed in Him (the redeemed, all true Israel) and also save those who showed Him and His brethren kindness (the white throne judgment). Two different groups.

You only see people in your equations and then use that form of spiritual blindness to condemn other captives of the devils.

But then again it's not even you doing it, so there's that.

Pity, such sights.

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