Why Senate Republicans aren't uniting behind a health care plan​

Three days before a high-profile vote on a Democratic proposal to extend expiring Obamacare subsidies, GOP senators are nowhere near coalescing behind any single alternative that could be put up alongside it.

For Republicans, the risk of proceeding Thursday with a side-by-side vote is clear. While Democrats say they will have their entire 47-member caucus behind the three-year extension, any GOP plan right now is likely to fall well short of complete unity — and highlight the divisions in their party.

“What signal would that send if Republicans say, ‘Yeah, we’re going to say no to the Democrats’ plan, but we’re not going to offer anything?’” Sen. Josh Hawley(R-Mo.) said. “The message that will send is, good luck to the American people, and we don’t really care.”

[Isn't that what motivated you to cut the subsidies in the first place?]

One of the aides said Republicans will be prepared to make the case they have plenty of ideas and are ready to talk with Democrats once they move off a proposal that won’t get the 60 votes needed to advance.

[Well, plenty of concepts of an idea, anyway.]

Gracious Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus,
I pray that catz boyfriend’s new owner would simply rent the flat back to him and that he would be allowed to stay. Please guard catz’ mind from relying on him, for it is You who saves, not us, though sometimes You work through us to help. Guard her with Your strength, and help her to walk in Your power. Show her ways these two can improve their financial situation, and open up opportunities for them.
In Christ’s Name,
Amen

Brother Del said:

Better yet, what does it matter what Calvin thinks about good works, and why spend anytime debating it?

Are we really that uninterested in the "weightier matters"?

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Yes,...... a lot of people are more worried about theology than a relationship with Jesus.

Some folks are not able to move on to those "weightier matters" in their walk with Jesus simply because they like to argue. They get caught up in man's teachings and think they need to defend the faith at every juncture.

There is no such thing as a ministry of an apologist in scripture, but you look around youtube and how many so-called Christians live to have debates with folks on there,...... they must think there is.

CLEEB said:

I believe the church is taught by GOD through Jesus Christ. Jesus said , John 6:45 , John 14:26 , John said , 1 John 2:27
we have the anointing that teaches us. This is saying we are taught by divine revelation just like the prophets and Apostles were. I do not think that any man or woman can reach anyone spiritual things, only GOD can do this. These shepherds in the churches today think they can do what only GOD can do. The early church was not a one man show. 1 Corinthians 14:29 since we are taught by divine revelation then we must be prophets and prophetesses because no man can teach us. This idea is in the scriptures if you look for it. I believe that that after the deaths of all the Apostles massive deception began and many false churches came and took the name of Christian and perverted it. There is a prophecy in Ezekiel 34 about these false shepherds and what GOD said HE would do about it. This is a hard thing to see but this too is in the scriptures if you search for it.

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Thank you for sharing your beliefs on this subject.

“The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds other life—another hunter, an angel or a demon, a delicate infant or a tottering old man, a fairy or a demigod—there’s only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them. In this forest, hell is other people. An eternal threat that any life that exposes its own existence will be swiftly wiped out. This is the picture of cosmic civilization. It’s the explanation for the Fermi Paradox.”
― Cixin Liu, The Dark Forest

Mark Quayle said:

It's going to take too long to continue to debate each point if in the end all we do is disagree. Can you please explain how it is possible for anything (besides God himself) to happen that is not caused to happen?

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We either disagree or do not understand each other. The debate is to find out which it is, or to help lurkers see both sides and understand the implications for themselves.

As to your question, I will provide a simple example from a human frame of reference, as we can argue all day about God's frame of reference, but any rational person should realize that we have no idea about what goes on there, but philosophically, the implications are the same.

Let's theorize that there is somehow a scientist who is perfect, mistake-free, and somehow can understand all of the variables that go into a particular experiment like a controlled energy blast that ignites in a vacuum when he pushes a big red button. He can set up his experiment in one of two ways:

1.) He meticulously works out all the variables ahead of time so that when he pushes that button, he knows where every particle will go, how they will affect each other and everything goes as planned. Nothing new is learned or particularly interesting to the scientist as he knew what was going to happen all along.

2.) He sets up the same experiment, but in this variation, he decides to not calculate every particle but allows them to interact with each other on their own. He still sets up constraints so that they will not leave the vacuum or be in a position to destroy the experiment. Still many different things can happen, and the result is far more satisfying.

You could call it omniscience by default vs omniscience by choice.

You could relate Satan to a rogue jealous scientist who decides to alter the development of two of the particles, but I think this story would get too long and convoluted if I worked out analogies for everything in Genesis.

Mark Quayle said:

You keep coming up with this idea that if I am caused to do something that I could not have chosen it. I'm saying that I could not have chosen without being caused to choose.

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I really don't see the difference between the two sentences. I agree with both of them. External causation means I am not making the choice.

Mark Quayle said:

Choices don't happen in a vacuum. You wanted what you chose. You wanted what you chose because something —myriad causes, actually— resulted in you wanting what you wanted. You didn't invent fact on your own.

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You are correct from a logical standpoint, but that is irrelevant. The question is whether God already knows my future choices, thereby making my choice moot. Assuming that we both agree that the world contains a lot of evil people, then it's not just a case of God allowing evil to happen. It's a case of God creating evil in its entirety, a concept that I reject.

Mark Quayle said:

What's curious to me is that, given a different context, many who argue for freewill are more than happy with the notion of 'chains-of-causation'. But as soon as we say that God is at the beginning of all the chains, all the sudden we get cries of "foul"! Why? Really, why? You can't tell me the reasons why you want what you want. You may tell me a reason, but when I ask for the explanation for what caused that reason, you have to come up with something else, and so on. You won't admit to God being at the head of all causation. You want something to happen out of thin air, which is, sorry, illogical. Nothing comes from nothing.

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I don't have a problem with God being at the beginning of all causation. I have a problem with a concept whose logical end result is that God is responsible for man's fall from grace, not man.

Mark Quayle said:

I just read your post again. If I am misrepresenting you and you do agree that God is omniscient and omnipotent, say so. Your conclusion makes sense, if you agree with that: Free will, (as defined by the notion that it is uncaused), is a fiction.

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I think we have no way of knowing what reality is for God. I think that omnipotence relative to humanity tells me nothing about the environment in the spiritual world. And I think omniscience by default logically precludes God's freedom and sets up all sorts of paradoxes that cannot be resolved.

God sees A, but wants B, and so intervenes and changes the result to B, but then A never occurred, so God shouldn't have been able to see A as a future, because there was no future A.

And that was a ridiculously simplistic example.

Coolerranch said:

*Takes a sip of magic tea* May God bless you even if it may seem as though satan has gotten an advantage or is worth believing. For God will send someone to help you whether it be the Holy Spirit, or angels, or a person to remind you that you're being helped by these beings.

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I am sure it is happening with prayer, from me, and from any others if they do, there is help coming, which is from God. I do what I see to do according to what God's will is, and trust God as I know I can, in which I would walk with God, I would not want it another way. I am in good shape still even while with the real vulnerability with good choices I made, even for quite a long time, though much of what I talk about is dismissed by most others. Many will miss out on some good things that could be for them.

Why was Mary conceived without sin?
This question lies at the heart of one of the most misunderstood yet most beautiful doctrines of the Catholic Faith.

In this long-form catechetical video, Excerpta Catechismi explores the Feast of the Immaculate Conception through the traditional teaching of the Church, drawing especially from The Church’s Year by Rev. Leonard Goffine, Sacred Scripture, and the writings of the Church Fathers and saints

You will learn why Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin from the first moment of her existence — how this privilege flows entirely from the merits of Jesus Christ — and why the Immaculate Conception marks the first light of redemption before the birth of Christ. Far from diminishing Christ’s role, this doctrine magnifies His saving power and reveals what grace can accomplish when sin has no foothold.

This video also explains the biblical foundations of the Immaculate Conception, including the angel’s greeting “full of grace,” the prophecy of the Woman in Genesis, and Mary as the true Ark of the Covenant. It reflects on Mary as the New Eve, her role in God’s plan of salvation, and the powerful moral lessons this feast offers to every Christian.

As Advent approaches, the Immaculate Conception reminds us that Mary is the pure dawn before the rising of the Sun of Justice. By contemplating her purity, humility, and obedience, we are invited to prepare our own souls for the coming of Christ through repentance, devotion, and conversion of life.

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December 9, 2025

Our Morning Offering – 9 December– Tota Pulchra Es, Maria


One Minute Reflection – 9 December – ‘ … Thou enabled the world to read the Word, the Father’s Son!’

Feria (Second Sunday of Advent) propers (EF)

Tuesday of the Second Week of Advent (EF)

Tuesday of the Second Week of Advent readings & commentary (OF)
Saint Juan Diego, Hermit—Optional Memorial

Tuesday of the Second Week of Advent; Opt Mem of St. Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin (USA)

Daily Gospel

ADVENTCAzT 2025 – 10 – Tuesday 2nd Week of Advent

Saint Leocadia of Toledo Virgin and Martyr

Saint Juan Diego Visionary of Our Lady of Guadelupe

Saint Juan Diego, Hidden Keeper of the Tilma

Saint Juan Diego

Saints of the Day

Sermons for Everyday Living - St Juan Diego 12/9/25

There are 3 Marian feasts this week and they’re perfect for Advent

Audio version of Gueranger
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A good example is with Kirk and how the TP gatherings were falsely narrated as being like Nazis. To some degree all the talk about Trump and Vance and conservatives as Nazis is partly due to the Christian connection. They have some similar beliefs and ideas that progressives regard as being like Nazis.

I think mainly due to the fundemental difference in how each sees the world and how society should be ordered. Progressives I think they use the idea of love being all inclusive and making everyone welcome and feeling good about themselves and the world.

So the idea of sin, accountability and especially the consequences for wrong doing (punishment) is a no no. It represents cruelty and control. It makes people feel uncomfortable and is percieved to be harmful. In a feelings based view of the world.

So for example the Christian belief of Gods judgement for sinners is seen as outdated and harsh. By the same logic heavy controls on immigration of even crime is seen as controlling and cruel and not allowing for peoples feelings and experiences.

Even the idea of locking people up or having borders is seen by some as controlling.

So I think this is the basis for why Christianity is percieved as so controlling and cruel that it is compared to the Nazis controlling and cruelty. Of course this is rediculous as the Nazis killed 7 million Jews and others and Christians ain't doing that and in fact show a lot of forgiveness and love.

But this is the Postmodern age where feelings and words create reality. Words are given new meaning then reapplied in narratives and when this is repeated enough it becomes the reality. People begin to believe it enough that they will actually act on it as we have seen with the assassinations and attempts.

12/09/25 Day 6

O St. Lucy, whose name proclaims the radiance of light, we approach you with humble confidence to seek your holy intercession. Obtain for us, through your prayers, that sacred illumination which guides our souls away from the shadows of sin and leads us toward the brightness of virtue.

Obtain for us also these petitions which we offer to you in this novena:

[Mention your petitions now]

We beseech you, St. Lucy, through your powerful advocacy before the throne of the Lamb, the protection of our eye sight, and for the grace to employ our eyes always in service of God’s glory and never for that which offends His divine majesty.

Help us to perceive with clarity the truths of our faith and the needs of our neighbor, that we may walk steadfastly in the light of Christ and labor earnestly for the salvation of souls.

Pray for us, St. Lucy, that having honored you as our advocate in this earthly pilgrimage, we may one day behold with you the eternal splendor of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ our Lord, in whose divine light all shadows flee away forever. Amen.

BCP1928 said:

The US has no state called Columbia.

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Lol I mean Columbus. Columbus, Ohio the capital and largest city in Ohio. I know Ohio from the CSNY song by the same name. Great song.

BCP1928 said:

I don't think you have any idea what "sanctuary" means in this context.

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I think I understand it enough to know that it has caused some States a lot of trouble in trying to harbor and hide illegals. Something like 20 million in the last few years and some States have been overwhelmed. No checks, vetting and integration.

Its a complete mess and so big that its now a national safety and security issue. The entire system is untrustworthy and needs to be investigated and restructured. This is a major turning point for the US I think when it comes to immigration and national identity and all that.

Not just the US but most western nations. Reassessing the whole idea of immigration and how best to structured it so that it does not become something that undermines and destroyes the nation but builds it up.

Having people who come here and even locals always complaing about western nations being like Nazis and the worst nation. When the nations they came from were the bad ones. Everyone has to unite under the one Flag and nation and not 50 different ones as far as national identity.

This whole identity politics and culture war of whites verses blacks and gender and sex wars and now religion and belief wars is destroying nations and the long held values that built them.

truthuprootsevil said:

And he speaks of the illegals who come here committing crime, but he is going to prison systems have more US citizens manually illegals, and the number is overwhelmingly higher. But people will ignore facts to achieve what they want.BOP Statistics: Inmate Citizenship BOP Statistics: Inmate Citizenship

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Is your claim then, because we have Americans who commit crime, we should therefore allow illegals in who commit crime?

The truth is we don't actually know how much crime illegals commit because most places don't keep track of if a person is illegal or not. I know in my area inmates are not required to prove their citizenship.

truthuprootsevil said:

Government aid program? Again US citizens at the top of the list and many government aid programs illegals cannot received.

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And they should be top of the list. They are citizens. Yes, illegals arent supposed to get certain aid, and yet they do becauae states administer the programs and there are ways around the federal requirements.

truthuprootsevil said:

I guess farmers will start complaining again they will not have anyone to work their Crops. It's the dirty jobs, the menial jobs, that US citizens don't want and the majority will not do.

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Is this all the illegals are good for? Doing the dirty jobs and being taken advantage of. Maybe if we forced rhe farmers to hire only legals the wages would go up enough that Americans might do it. But this is a dirty little secret. Hire illegals and keep wages lower, for everyone.

truthuprootsevil said:

The Bible tells people to help each other, be kind to the stranger, help those in need but if you a third world country the current US president and his supporters don't want to help anyone less fortunate than them, of course unless it's family or friends.

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The Bible says a lot of things Christians should and shouldn't do. Are you for forcing everyone to follow scritpure in all things or just certain things? The things you apparently support. What if I said we needed to outlaw lying and homosexuality. Would you be for that or against that?

I think the body of Christ reigns today even more than ever because theres too many wolves. Now more than ever is the world open to turning a truth into a lie and a lie into the truth. The postmodern age where words, narratives and feelings make relaity and there is no way to tell the truth.

So we need a clear and truthful example in among all that white noise of Enlightened relativism that will be different and stand out as worthy and without fault. One that is above reproach.

As Christians we know this is Christ. But we have often failed to differentiate ourselves from the culture wars and the church has become just another identity among many even divided among itself. In a never ending war of words and alternative truth claims.

So that means the only way to stand out from all this is to actually be like Christ. To become part of the body of Christ. Which means actually living like Christ and not just speaking the words. This means actually doing what the bible says. Not half doing it but doing it all the way. Just as they did in the early church.

That means being willing to lay down your life literally. Put God above world desires and wants. Not having those material goods and doinging everything as Gods will and not our own.

When we see how even churches don't live to much different to the world then its no wonder people hate the church and God. Most people today do not do what they say. They are good at pointing out the wrongs of others or how people should live. But don't actually live that way themselves.

People are more respected when they live what they preach or teach. In fact for the early church and for Christ they were fairly silent when it came to their own opinion and getting into culture wars. They lived the gospel and example and the few words they did say were well respected. Because people seen that they lived what they preached and it was the truth.

This is all about embodying the gospel and Christ. This example speaks volumes and is power. People cannot argue against it because you are what you say.

But the important thing is that no human idea could ever be good enough that it would make a person untouchable and above reproach. Because we are weak.

So when people embody and like as Christ and actually putting others above themselves, loving their enermies and dying for them. Thet see God without one word being spoken. This is the power of Christs example. People do not even have to say where the truth and power of this testimony comes from. They immediate see it is from God as Christ is God and we are reflecting that to others.

I think the body of Christ is rising again because the world strayed so far away from God. When this happens God reminds people and Christs light shines in the darkness so that people can know Him when the chaos and darkness becomes too great in the world. Bold and pure Christians will restore Gods truth in among all the lies and wolves and Pharisees who are hypocrites.

Homily Wednesday, December 10 2025



Isaiah 40:25-31

God said, “Lift up your eyes on high and see who created these?”



When we realize that we have created nothing, we more readily receive God’s love in the present moment.



Matthew 11:28-30

“Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for yourselves.”



Let us read carefully: the yoke the Lord wants us to bear is peace, the rest of the soul.



Biblical texts: NAB-RE

Normand Thomas.

bling said:

Again, you throw up a strawman argument about claiming I am suggesting, some people are sinless, which I never even suggested.

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Never said you did. What you do miss is that sin is not a people only situation. There are other operators involved that are not people.

bling said:

A lot is made of the fact Paul switched to the present tense in these verses, but was there a reason that the Roman reader to pick up on this switch and better understand what Paul was saying? We are reading other peoples mail to Romans in Rome during the first century, so what would be the best way to communicate a huge victory over sin to them?

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The "Victory" was not counting sins against people.

But the war remains ongoing in case you missed that part

bling said:

When Mark describes in his Gospel is Christ’s great battle with a climatic victory being Christ rising, he wrote it in the “historic present tense”. Supporting the idea Mark was in Rome at the time.

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Beside the point, whatever point you're trying to make

As to tense, there is no doubt that Paul had evil present withIN him, causing his mind to sin in thought ala Mark 7:21-23

bling said:

What Paul is describing in Romans 7: 14-24 is a great battle and final climatic victory over sin in the “historic present tense”.

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Yet Paul's flesh still served the "law of sin," vs. 25, so maybe not get the victory cart in front of the horse?

bling said:

Sin has purpose for the nonbeliever, but what “purpose” does it have in the believer life?

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Why differentiate? Our sin is no different than that of any person. Paul claimed to be "chief of same" present tense, 1 Tim. 1:9

bling said:

When Deity dwelled unquenched in a human (Christ) it did not sin, so does deity dwell within Christians, so the problem is really the quenching of the Spirit?

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I'd suggest that there was one huge colossal difference involved, being only ONE was without sin. No one else has that claim. It is held only by God in Christ.

bling said:

On every major street corner in Rome were monuments to some great Roman victory, some parts of these monuments are in museums today and below each is given an exciting climatic description of the battle in the “historic present tense”. This was the same description carried by messengers sent out by the general over the Roman Empire, after a great victory.

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I'd suggest your figures don't figure. We all deal with adversaries unseen. So if your quest is to make some other claim, be clear about it. The devil still exists and sin still exists and death still exists. So your "victory claim" is not yet completed and won't be until the end of the devil and his messengers.

bling said:

Similar to this Roman section on (the war and victory over sin) is Mark’s whole Gospel of Christ’s war against satan’s follows of this world”.

As far as Ro. 7: 14-24

The Gospel of Mark was mimicking the messages that were sent out by the Roman generals after winning a great battle. These messages went with messengers to dramatically present the battle with the victory at the end, to the cheers of the crowd. They were always in the present tense and we have some copies that were written in stone under the battle monuments that were spread throughout Rome. The Gospel of Mark is written in the style of these Victory Messages sent by the Roman General to the Roman Empire and Mark’s is very much a victory message. Do you think, Paul in keep with the Roman culture of the day, would have written His victorious battle over sin in the present tense to the Romans in Rome?

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Mimicking Roman generals? Unlikely. Nice imagination stab, but a rather hollow analogy considering that mankind had been at war for thousands of years before "Roman generals" besides the ongoing unseen war with our adverse spiritual adversaries that are impetus behind all war and killing.

bling said:

It is called the “historic present tense”, by scholars and would fit what Paul was saying to the Romans.

This topic and the use of Romans 7: 14-24 come up a lot and a lot has been written on it.

The context helps and you need to address these questions:

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IF your claim is that Paul was sinless because of Christ, you'd be quite entirely off the page.

Paul wrote of his situation in the present tense application and it still applies the same way to everyone to this day.

bling said:

1. When did Paul learn about “coveting”?

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That the law promoted sin, which Paul termed "no longer I" to input illegal thoughts into his mind, and thereby he determined that evil was present withIN him.

bling said:

2. When did this problem start for Paul?

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We are all born as blinded sinners, timing in or out of the womb notwithstanding. I'd suggest at the moment of our creation, Psalm 51:5

bling said:

3. Does Paul continue in the misery and what would relief this misery?

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Paul spent his entire life in grief, Romans 9:2

bling said:

4. Is “just being forgiven” a good solution to the problem?

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There is only one solution and that hasn't transpired yet.

bling said:

5. When did Paul obtain the solution?

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You're trying to isolate Paul from having to deal internally with the tempter. I'd suggest you're barking up the wrong tree with that angle because it was never a question of just Paul or just people to start with.

Where is our adversary in YOUR picture? You basically don't have a adversary or you trumpet your victory while still being a sinner. Sorry, doesn't work or compute.

bling said:

The answer to the problem of sinning while here on earth is solved with Romans chapter 8 and the indwelling holy Spirit.

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Christ condemned sin in sinful flesh. That hasn't changed. YET sins are not counted against people, 2 Cor. 5:19 which again brings us back to the basic point.

bling said:

We are all being temped by sin, but True Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit to overcome those temptations. Ro. 3:9

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Look, you really are beating around the bush on this subject. We ALL have evil thoughts that defile us. Now even in your theology world you're not avoiding that fact. The only part you're missing is the other party that is behind it all.

And THAT was the entire point of the opening post concerning Adam, Eve and the sin of the DEVIL in them both.

bling said:

2 Cor. 12:7 talks about the help he receives from satan’s thorn in the flesh Paul was given, but that is not satan himself living in Paul.

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Paul was exceptionally clear it was a messenger of Satan aka as a DEVIL, not "thee" devil, but "they" are all from the same seed, the same family, the same kingdom. The devil has children too aka seeds, tares, thorns, goats, etc.

bling said:

Gal. 4: 14 “and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.”

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Nice spin on turning "temptation" into ILLNESS. I guess you could spin it that way but the messenger of Satan is not an illness. Might cause illness, but no. Temptations defile all of us and Paul's temptations were spelled out quite clearly in Romans 7:7-13, lustful thoughts.

bling said:

We all get sick sometimes while on earth, but that can help us.

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boy, you just really don't care to drag the devils into these pictures do you?

WHY is that? No wonder to me.

bling said:

1 Cor. 10: 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

We can use our failures of the past as part of our witness, since we are no longer the same person.

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You're fixated on a people only positions. No use in scripture understandings at all because you're missing a very critical piece. You know, the one you can't even bring into the pictures.

bling said:

All mature adults have sinned in the past, but the indwelling Spirit does not sin, but we can quench the Spirit and sin.

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Brilliant conclusion except for the fact that we all have evil thoughts that defile us and that sin is of the devil.

bling said:

The main question (a diatribe question) in Romans 9 Paul addresses is God being fair or just Rms. 9: 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

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The point again being is that one of the parties in the "lump of me" is as Paul said, "NO LONGER I."

There "will be" permanent retribution to THOSE PARTIES on the horizon.

bling said:

This will take some explaining, since just prior in Romans 9, Paul went over some history of God’s dealings with the Israelites that sounds very “unjust” like “loving Jacob and hating Esau” before they were born, but remember in all of Paul’s diatribes he begins before, just after or before and just after with strong support for the wrong answer (this makes it more of a debate and giving the opposition the first shot as done in all diatribes).

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Your diatribes just miss the obvious and revolve only around people. It's actually quite funny that you can't bring the devil, our very real ADVERSARY into any of these pictures.

bling said:

Who in Rome would be having a “problem” with God choosing to work with Isaac and Jacob instead of Ishmael and Esau? Would the Jewish Christian have a problem with this or would it be the Gentile Christians?

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Again you miss a very basic point "because" you can't bring the other party into the picture. The "eldest" is a representative of a blinded slave of Satan, ala Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

I'm sure you can see "this fact" is the condition of the "first born."

The 2nd person, the born again person SEES their condition and resists our enemy, our adversary, our prior CAPTOR.

So was it Esau that was hated? Never. It was always the enemy who is hated and that is not PEOPLE, yet is with people. Paul again isolates this exact fact, the spirit of slumber or stupor, that God put upon not only all of Israel, but upon all people. The born again person SEES this fact.

The "war" between "Ishmael" and "Isaac" is a war fought within US, the believers. Clueless people remain slaves.

bling said:

If God treaded you as privileged and special would you have a problem or would you have a problem if you were treated seemingly as common and others were treated with honor for no apparent reason?

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Has nothing to do with only people. I think we've isolated your one sided sight long enough quite frankly.

I basically reject your one sided views as void of the obvious BUT unseen factor in operations from cover to cover in the scriptures. A fact that your positions simply have no answer for.

Royal Caribbean is back in the news.

Family sues Royal Caribbean after man allegedly served 33 drinks dies aboard cruise ship

This is a short video of a shark feeding frenzy at Byron Bay in New South Wales as reported on the (Australian) ABC online news.


The bay is on the northern side of Cape Byron which is the eastern most point of mainland Australia.

There's a couple of swimmers taking a risk but they may not have been able to see the sharks.


PS - The article mentions a couple of Swiss nationals who were attacked at Crowdy Bay National Park last month. One of them died unfortunately but it seems they may have been swimming in the vicinity of bait balls.

ChubbyCherub said:

Because it's not only the Bible that uses historic vernacular.

Take for instance the Romans and how they phrased quotations on engravings underneath their monuments or busts, and then think about if we had teachers rephrase these quotations so that we understood them in modern context. Why wouldn't we apply this to other writings?

Now, if we argue that we can't expect secular teachers to teach us the changes within our Bible, fine. But, surely, this is where the church comes in?

For example, our church uses the NIV. Seemingly, even some of the words and phrases which I consider to be 'everyday' and basic, are beyond the scope of what some have been taught or come across often, so our pastor provides alternate words or summarizes phrases in a more 'modern' way for generalized understanding.

The responsibility for learning has to lie somewhere. We can't all just delegate responsibility to someone else or just cease the pursuit of knowledge. There are many paths to learning if someone is willing to pursue them.

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I don't wish for this to sound flippant so apologies if it has come across that way.

My point here, I guess, is I learned Shakespeare in school, I learned about Plato, I learned geometry and about Magellan and governments of countries I've never even heard of. None of my knowledge regarding how people spoke, learned or wrote at the time their ideas were formulated was inherent, some of my knowledge changed from how it was presented to me initially etc and if I had curiosity about them at a later date, due to a passing conversation or something I read, I sought to update what I thought I knew or reconfirm what I'd already learned.

I have taken the point of this post to be that there is no reason for us to speak in the colloquial ways of the KJV and it is not understood why anyone would choose to do so since no one really understands what is being said, in the main. However, I don't see that as true across the board and there are reasons why the KJV is referred to by many despite the language being outdated.

I also think that if a church is using the KJV, then it's okay to ask them about what certain things mean if we don't understand since we don't always know how to apply KJV text to modern language. They would have, in my opinion, a responsibility to clarify but we would have the responsibility to ask so we can learn.

I can't imagine being bothered by someone learning, teaching and applying physics just because I didn't understand it or the origins of it. If I felt that strongly about my lack of understanding, it would seem to me that it's my responsibility to learn so that I do understand or learn enough so that I can ask questions from the appropriate source.

Apologies if I have misunderstood the post!

peaceful-forest said:

I was wondering if any other Christians are having trouble with making friends. Friendships you're actually happy with and are good for you. It can be with other Christians or non-believers.

I feel like I have trouble. I don't really know where to find other Christians that are like me.

At work I'm around people I do not trust. They lie, they gossip, they're out to get others, etc. So I have to watch what I say and do, and protect myself.

I also haven't been to church in 6 years. I know that's bad. But I'm not impressed with the churches in my area.

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I don't have advice other than to have friendly comments when you talk to people. Don't crticize or condemn. Don't complain about your upbringing. I wasn't allowed friends growing up and we moved every year.

How to Win Friends and Influence People is a 1936 self-help book written by Dale Carnegie. Over 30 million copies have been sold worldwide.

Ivan Hlavanda said:

What I am definitely sure of, is that they are 2 literal persons, and not a metaphor for the Church and Israel

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I agree.

dichotomy

Valletta said:

The Somali Welfare Fraud Scandal Is Even Worse Than You Think

The Somali-tied welfare fraud scheme in Minnesota is likely far worse than the American people think, involving “complicit” state government officials and totaling far more stolen money than original early estimates stated, according to Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.Billions of...

www.dailywire.com

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Do yourself a big favour. Try to find reputable sources to back up any claims you want to make. And tell anyone who thinks to use that dismal excuse for a human being such as Miller to support anything whatsoever is only illustrating their own gullibility.