• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Pastor, Elders abducted. Gazan Christians struggle. Rejoicing in affliction.

On Sunday, July 27, 2025, Islamists entered a church building in northeastern Benin near the end of the service and abducted its pastor and three elders. Persecution is prevalent in the northern part of Benin, where Christians are beaten and sometimes killed and church buildings are routinely destroyed.

A senior Beninese pastor requested prayer for the abducted church leaders and that Christians in Benin will remain bold witnesses to Christ amid persecution.

————

Christians in Gaza have suffered greatly amid the ongoing regional conflict that began on Oct. 7, 2023. “We had about 900 [Christians], and after the war about 200 of them, at least, left Gaza,” said Pastor Hanna Massad of Christian Mission to Gaza.

He also said that living conditions for those who remained have been difficult: “It has been really hard for them. Many of them [have] lost a lot of weight.” Many of the Christians unable to flee from Gaza are sheltering in a Catholic church, which was struck by an Israeli tank shell on July 17, 2025, killing three people. A priest and a relative of Rami Ayyad were among those killed.

Rami was the former manager of the only Christian bookstore in Gaza and was killed by Islamists in 2007 for his faith and ministry activities. The Israeli government claimed the strike on the church was a mistake and is investigating.

————

On Aug. 7, 2021, Pastor Wang Xiaoguang; his wife, Yang Rongli; and other leaders of the Linfen church in Shanxi Province were arrested.

They were accused of fraud, which is how the Chinese Communist Party characterizes the collection of tithes in the church. After almost four years of detention, Pastor Wang Xiaoguang was sentenced to nine years and seven months in prison.

In a separate trial, Yang Rongli was sentenced to 15 years in prison. Together, they also face fines of 2.3 million yuan, or more than $320,000. Wang Xiaoguang’s son reported that his father considered it “a great honor” to be put on trial for the Lord, and his mother called the sentence “a great crown given to me by God.” Pray for Pastor Wang, his wife and the church leaders who were charged alongside them. Pray that their endurance will be a powerful testimony to the officials who imprison them and to the church they love.

Click here to find out about Christian persecution in China and learn how to pray.
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Why Zohran Mamdani won and New York will pay a terrible price

And you didn't listen to the critics, which is fine.
I do but let's be clear:
His critics are working from fear.



However, the commission of
civilians he says he'll recreate, will take roles that the police no do. Will the
members of this commission have guns and authority to make arrests when
necessary?
Do cops make arrests with 100% of their engagement?
What if the person just needs mental health support?
I can say right now that having someone who is trained and CAPABLE at de-escalation will do 100% more good than a cop pointing a gun at a problem.
Many, many times.


Those are the questions being asked that are not answered by
Mamdani.
I would foresee that he is likely working out those details and policies.
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House Democrat exchanged texts with Epstein during 2019 congressional hearing

Yeah. I repeat: And....?
And nothing - the facts in the OP showed it was multiple text during a hearing - not an email as you stated - oops
Please, let me know what that "viable subject" is whenever you're ready.
You would have to determine what is viable - you are the one who evidently thought it a salient point that you never heard of her before. Sounds dismissive and non viable to me.
-- A2SG, content to wait, I brought a good book.....
No waiting at all - I'm glad you are content -

Care to correct your error?

-- Always in His Presence, content to wait also - in the middle of the Book of John...
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Trump meets with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman at White House

Would you truly have preferred that Trump did nothing to try to stop the current wars in the Middle East?

CHOOSE
Middle East under Biden
Middle East under Trump
I will admit that the middle east is looking a bit better than usual, if you put a screen in front of the piles of corpses the israeli army is still creating during the current "cease fire".


But I don't think this moves the needle enough to make up for Trump's failures in other regards.
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Major News about Iran - Capital move, possible war and more

I looked it up:

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei set the tone in mid-July, warning that Iran remained fully prepared for renewed confrontation and could hit Israel “even harder” than during the 12-Day War should hostilities resume.
Ah okay, thanks!
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Gov. Abbott declares CAIR, Muslim Brotherhood terrorist groups

The proclamation cites several reasons for the designations, alleging the groups pose a threat to the security and residents of Texas.
"The Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR have long made their goals clear: to forcibly impose Sharia law and establish Islam’s ‘mastership of the world,’" said Governor Abbott. "The actions taken by the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR to support terrorism across the globe and subvert our laws through violence, intimidation, and harassment are unacceptable. Today, I designated the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR as foreign terrorist organizations and transnational criminal organizations. These radical extremists are not welcome in our state and are now prohibited from acquiring any real property interest in Texas."

We need to recognize these bad actors who hide by calling others Islamaphobics.

What happens if someone dies before they became a believer, is it their fault?

No! we are talking about the same person making some "autonomous free will" (uncaused by outside influences) choices and that same person making choices that are the result of outside influences.
Are you not defining a "genuine" choice as being a God caused choice which individual is responsible for making?
Humans are certainly set up to make mental choices which they personally can be held responsible for making, without physically being able to carry the actions of their choice out.

All mature adults have a God given needed survival instinct, which results in some degree of selfishness, that selfishness is the motivation behind the lust.
A Christian having eternal life has their survival instinct satisfied, and they have been showed unbelievable wonderful gifts including Godly type Love, so no need to lust.
Can you demonstrate that anything can happen besides what does happen? Can you demonstrate the actual possibility of other options? Or is that only in our thinking? When God demands that we choose, do we not always only choose the one option? Was God not aware of those decisions before creating, but went ahead and created anyway? Well, then! He INTENDED it to be decided the way it was.

Otherwise, you need to demonstrate that {actual "chance" can determine outcomes}. The notion is by definition self-contradictory. But your whole construction depends on it.

You are defining justice according to the creature's ability to do what he is commanded to do. Sorry, but the command does not imply the ability to obey— it only implies the responsibility to obey. God is not unjust to create beings who will pay for their rebellion, as intended. He is making use of them for his Glory, to demonstrate his love and mercy to the objects of his mercy—us.
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AI And Universal Basic Income Can It Actually Work?

I’ve been watching a lot of videos about AI and I see a lot of people talking about AI replacing humans in almost every field of work. Many speculate that consumers would likely receive a universal income from the government and I just can’t wrap my mind around the idea because I can’t see where the government would get enough money to cover that huge of an expense. The largest portion of the government’s revenue is going to be coming from companies who are only paying a small portion of their profits in taxes which is somehow supposed to be enough to redistribute back to consumers who then buy products from the companies but there’s a rapid downward spiral in the actual numbers that doesn’t add up to me. Of only a portion of the companies’ profits are being paid to the government that means that consumers can only receive a portion of that money because some will be needed to operate the government and the rest that is left over going to consumers to recirculate back into the companies is going to be far less and less each year. So what’s going to fill this huge discrepancy in funds?

Skillet’s John Cooper Responds to Criticism New Chart-Topping Christmas Song Is ‘Demonic’

Must be a problem with the music:

Skillet Lyrics

"O Come, O Come Emmanuel"

O come, O come, Emmanuel
And ransom captive Israel
That mourns in lonely exile here
Until the Son of God appear

Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel

O come, Thou Rod of Jesse, free Jesse free
Thine own from Satan's tyranny Tyranny
From depths of hell Thy people save
And give them victory o'er the grave

Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel

God is with us
He's with us now
O come, o come Emmanuel
O come, Thou Dayspring, come and cheer
Our spirits by Thine advent here
Disperse the gloomy clouds of night
And death's dark shadows put to flight

Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel
Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel

Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel

God is with us
He's with us now
Oh, our God is Emmanuel
That is the "concern". The first couple of minutes of the song are very true musically to the traditional version. Then the song moves into a very heavy breakdown, with the last 2 segments you show being sung in a heavy style. It then shifts back to more traditional music and finishes with "
O come, o come Emmanuel. He's with us now".

It makes sense what they are doing musically. The song points back to a time when the Israelites were enslaved and in anguish in many ways. The song reflects the reality that we do call out to God in anguish and as believers ultimately put our faith in God and his grace. The song musically reflect the hope, then the anguish and ultimately resolves with that knowledge that God is with us. Their version of the song is clearly not meant to be performed that way in churches, but they are already performing it in concerts with audiences of diverse faith beliefs.

To me the criticism is really preferences and some who feel like their preferences are somehow God ordained while other peoples are not. I'm not a fan of current Skillet; I think their best years are way behind them and the current rendition is pretty boring. However, you can't make a real case that they are not theologically Nicene Christians, and unlike many they openly take their music into the secular world. I've seen them playing at a festival in front of over 50,000 people put the prophies of Christ from Isaiah on the screen behind them as they sing a song about Salvation. I've seen their open Christianity playing to secular audiences, and I'm certain it has caused many people to both investigate Christ and to know that it's not just what they see portrayed in the media.
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Did the beginning of the IDL change the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath?

And Jesus kept the Sabbath wherever he was in His travels. Sundown varied depending on His location and the lay of the land, as it does now everywhere regardless of where we are in any given time zone.

And as was said, No one knows where Eden was. So obviously where sundown was during it's inception is inconsequential.
Do you believe moving the start of the Sabbath from Mt Sinai to start at IDL is inconsequential for those who believe man is still under the ritual laws of the Old Covenant?
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what is Calvinism answer to how God works?

No, you comprehend wrong. Human decisions are subject to influences, though the mathematical expected outcome can still be normalized. The positive and negative influences include such as the guiding of the Holy Spirit (positive) and the temptation of the devil (negative). Free will isn't without influences, but free will still follows the mathematical rule to work with or without such influences. Or else it won't be called "free will" at all. To put it another way, free will is still free will when it is under influences, it still follows mathematical rule to function. Of course, God reserves the right to alter the outcome with manual intervention (if that's what you mean to say), it by no means says God needs (as a necessity) to alter each and every single bit of free will to deliever the outcome. He can just sit back to allow the rule function. It more or less resembles the miracles. God doesn't need to apply miracles (intervention) to maintain everything, everything can follow physical laws to function by itself though at the same time subject to the possibilities of God's intervention (such as parting the Red Sea).
Didn't I say it can be mathematically described? But even you said, "with normal distribution". That implies something about causation. the fact that the lines of causation are too vast and complicated for us to decipher doesn't mean that there actually is something we call "chance". It only means that we think that way.

You say, "Or else it won't be called "free will" at all". So what? The fact it is called "free will" doesn't make it free. I've heard it argued that since the dictionary defines "freewill" how it does, that it is therefore a fact! No, it only shows that that is what WE mean by it. And that only shows that we think of it as free. We use most words pretty loosely—"You are free to go"; "Buy two, get one free"; Freely give, freely receive"; "You are free to choose according to your inclinations"; I used to say there is such a thing as free will, by which I only meant that our choices are real, with real—even eternal—results. But people still took me wrong, so I avoid saying there is such a thing. If all you mean by free will is that people are free to do as they wish, that is fine with me. But if you say that free will means that they do things, uncaused to do so, then I disagree.

You say, "...it by no means says God needs (as a necessity) to alter each and every single bit of free will to deliever the outcome." I say he doesn't need to alter it at all. He USES it! Predestination/ determinism/ decree/ creating-ex-nihilo implies that what a person "freely" chooses to do, just like all other things that happen [down to the smallest motion of matter/force/thought], is caused to be what it is, to accomplish God's purposes. God needn't alter anything. WE are the ones who consider some things "natural" and other things "intervention", as though one takes more than the other for God to do. But the fact is, ALL is caused to be what it is by God. Existence itself is miracle, in that sense. You say, "He can just sit back to allow the rule function." Very fact itself is maintained by God. The difference is how WE look at it. God doesn't stop paying attention, nor does he pay more particular attention, to either one.

You say, "...everything can follow physical laws to function by itself...". Well, yes, physical laws are how WE see the usual. But there is no usual, normal, natural, apart from God's doing. When God "rested" on the 7th day of Creation, it doesn't mean he ceased 'exerting'* himself. It only means he ceased from creating at that point.

When you get time, take a good look at the "Attributes of God" —particularly Aseity, Simplicity and Immanence.

*("exerting" is said, there, for lack of a better word, and as human thinking needs it. It doesn't really describe how God does what he does. God doesn't get tired. For him, "act" is not "effort". He doesn't try to do; he simply does.)
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I currently have assurance, but how long will it last?

If I have doubts about my faith I always try to think of this verse:

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" - 2 Corinthians 13:5

So if you really are in the faith you should know it by yourself.
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Kiwi in Tokyo – what’s the view from your window this morning?

I'm tucked in a little corner of unincorporated Los Angeles County, with good views of downtown LA. This image is my profile banner, so this was taken a few years ago and from a park not far from home, but the view is pretty similar to the real one out my window. We've had a lot of rain (for desert Los Angeles) this November, and there's a little snow on the tallest hills, similar to what's shown below. I do get joy looking out the window on 'my' city.

1763657387344.png
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What is the true congregation?

Right, when I say works, I mean the idea that you can do a bunch of stuff and that gets you to heaven. There are denominations that hold to that teaching. Godly works proves you have the spirit but that is different than doing works and thinking that is what will save you. That's putting faith in works over putting faith in Christ. So righteous works are a product of the spirit and proves your standing in Christ, where there are people who say "I'm a good person, I'll get into heaven" and they mean because of their works. So if a denomination teaches that's how you get to heaven... that entire denomination won't be there. There are other aspects too like some denominations have created other "gods" essentially, some have created idols, some have created haughty spirits, and if that's the fundamental of their teaching, that's getting them no where either. Since scripture says:

Jeremiah 11:16–17:

That is what Paul references in Romans 11 and what we are grafted into. Grace doesn't mean license to continually sin against him and we see that in the new testament with the idea of the tribulation period in general. It is WRATH because of rejection of repentance against sin (Revelation 6). This is why the gate is narrow and "few" find it because there are practices by a lot of denominations that are really big sins against God which means, no salvation unless they stop.
Yes. Gentiles were grafted into the olive tree to replace the unbelieving Israelites, that were many, only a few were believers. The root of this olive tree were all the believers before Israel existed, the people mentioned in Hebrews 11. The root supports the branches. The same rewards go to them as to the branches. They together with us will be made perfect. Hebrews 11:40 All of these people from root to branches, the entire olive tree is called the Israel of GOD. Galatians 6:16 and not everyone of the nation of Israel is of the Israel of GOD. Romans 9:6 The church is built on the foundation of the prophets and Apostles with Jesus as chief cornerstone. This entire building is a dwelling place for GODS spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22 What this teaches me is that the church did not begin on Pentecost but long ago with righteous Able and that Pentecost was to continue the church into the addition of the Gentiles which is the great mystery Paul described. Colossians 1:24-27 The church is now in the times of the Gentiles and modern day Israelites experience a hardening of their hearts that will last until the fullness of the Gentiles be called into the church. Romans 11:25-32 At sometime after Jesus returns and the unbelieving Israelites can be grafted back into the olive tree which is the Israel of GOD. Hint: this directly relates to Revelation 7:1-8 and Revelation 14:1-5
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Florida congressman investigated for alleged DC assault as police probe their own handling

The censure vote is avoided, but only because the matter has been punted to the Ethics Committee.

The House Ethics Committee voted Wednesday to establish an investigative subcommittee to examine allegations that Florida Republican Rep. Cory Mills broke campaign finance law and engaged in sexual misconduct and dating violence.

The significant step by the panel came ahead of a vote Wednesday night on GOP Rep. Nancy Mace's measure that would have censured Mills and removed him from his House committee assignments.

Ultimately, the House voted 310-103 to refer the censure resolution against Mills to the House Ethics Committee -- preventing the lower chamber from having to weigh in on publicly rebuking the congressman.

"You're a disgrace," Mace said to Mills [on the floor, as the clerk read out the censure resolution]
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Charlotte bishop grants Mass dispensation amid migrant crackdown in North Carolina

Bishop Michael T. Martin of the Diocese of Charlotte issued a Mass dispensation for any person who fears he or she may be subject to deportation and called for a day of prayer and fasting for migrants as immigration enforcement ramps up throughout North Carolina.

The bishop published the statement on Nov. 18 telling those “who are afraid to come to church” out of fear they could be deported “are not obligated to attend Mass.” These conditions, he said, are “circumstances beyond your control.”

Martin said the Church has always taught that the normal Sunday Mass obligation does not apply when a person cannot attend due to situations he or she does not control.

“I encourage you to take consolation in Jesus’ refrain when the disciples were in the boat being swamped by stormy seas: ‘Do not be afraid!’ (Mt 14:27),” Martin added. “Your brothers and sisters are praying with you, and on your behalf, to God who desires our citizenship together in heaven and longs to see us live in harmony with each other on earth.”

The diocesan statement comes after the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) launched Operation Charlotte’s Web late last week, which escalated immigration enforcement in North Carolina.

Continued below.

Let's Track the Economy (with objective empirical data?)

The U.S. added 119,000 jobs in September, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. That figure marked an acceleration from the previous month, and it exceeded an average of nearly 100,000 jobs added per month over the first half of 2025.

The report included a downward revision for the month of August, however, slashing performance from 22,000 jobs gained that month to 4,000 jobs lost.

The unemployment rate ticked up to 4.4%, which marks the highest level since October 2021.
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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

I know you affirm the 10, but what else is added on. It's a serious question but if you don't want to answer it just say so.
If we can't even accept the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God, the ones He spoke and wrote Himself, will the other laws matter? There is not any other law that we are to keep, that would not fit under one of the Ten Commandments the way Jesus explained them (magnified Isa42:21 Mat5:19-30) because they are exceedingly broad. Psa119:96. Man wants to lower the works of God Exo32:16 to be equal or lower than man, but God never did, either did Moses.
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Immigrant rights advocate Mercy Sister JoAnn Persch, 91, dies

Longtime immigrant rights advocate Sister JoAnn Persch died on Nov. 14 at age 91.

Two weeks before her death, Persch attempted to bring Communion to detainees at the Broadview, Illinois, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facility where for decades the Sisters of Mercy ministered to migrants and refugees. Officials denied her entry.

Persch and Sister Pat Murphy were founding members of the Su Casa Catholic Worker House in Chicago, serving refugees from Central America who were survivors of war, torture, and political persecution. From 1997 until 2002, the pair ministered at Casa Notre Dame in Chicago, a shelter for women fleeing domestic violence or recovering from addiction.

Beginning in January 2007, the two sisters attended prayer vigils every Friday morning outside the Broadview ICE facility where they encountered migrants scheduled for deportation and followed Murphy’s advice that “prayer is powerful, but you also have to put your body on the line.”

Through perseverance, Persch said she gained entry to the ICE facility during those years despite initial repeated refusals from government officials.

“Our motto is peacefully, respectfully, but never take no for an answer, so we kept working with ICE,” Persch said Nov. 1. “Finally, we got inside.”

‘It was so traumatic’​


Continued below.

What is your Motivation to Discuss/Debate Things Online?

I said "change my mind".
Not referring to saying a fact was wrong on something, but I'm referring to things like:
I'm prochoice, but then they changed their mind/heart and I'm now prolife or.....yes I believe trans is real, but then they changed their mind/heart and now admit it's not.
Big things, life decisions on topics, staunch adherence/loyalty to a wrong thing, an ungodly thing, etc.
Those are the type of things I'm referring to.....not, oh, I got that fact wrong on something.

How about broadening one's perspective? Here's one of the examples I had in mind in my earlier post -- a religious example, not a political one. I grew up in a tradition that strongly emphasizes the individual. It's the individual person, alone, who makes a decision to follow Jesus. The individual is responsible for their own spiritual growth, through private prayer and solitary Bible reading. The individual person chooses to be baptized, after making a personal commitment to Jesus. The church is, well, a collection of individuals who happen to all be walking in the same direction.

My current church tradition practices infant baptism. I don't object to that, but sometimes it still feels to me like we're pretending the baby has made a decision. So I brought up the question in the STR (Anglican) forum. One of the Anglican priests in that forum ( @Paidiske ) encouraged me to think of baptism as a rite of entrance into the Christian community. And I really hadn't thought of baptism as a communal action before, because of the individualistic emphasis in my childhood church. Infant baptism makes much more sense if it's about a community instead of just an individual.

So, broadening of perspective. I don't see my earlier thinking as wrong, just incomplete. Now, when I think about baptism, I bring in new ideas that I wasn't thinking about before.

At this stage of my life, I don't expect that I'm going to change 180-degrees on anything as fundamental as Christian commitment or human rights. But there are always new things to learn, new sides of complicated questions that I haven't considered before. Sometimes a discussion forum like CF contributes to that learning.
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