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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

A Visual Reconstruction of the First Mass in Wyoming

On July 5, 1840, the Flemish Jesuit Pierre-Jean De Smet offered Mass atop a bluff near present-day Daniel, WY. Assembled to witness the ritual was an immense crowd of fur trappers and Indigenous peoples who had convened for the annual trade rendezvous held nearby. The memorable scene marked the first public celebration of the Mass in what is today Wyoming.


De Smet had arrived at the rendezvous to evaluate the prospect of establishing missions in the area. Up to this point, the 39-year-old’s experience as a Jesuit had been characterized by chronic illness, discouragement, and failure. His 1840 journey to the Rocky Mountains, however, launched a transformative phase of his career, one that would catapult him to fame as the century’s foremost missionary to the North American Indians as well as an energetic diplomat, intrepid explorer, pioneering cartographer, and popular author who would leave a lasting mark on the history of the American West.


In a letter, De Smet described the pivotal events of July 5 like this:





I had the privilege of celebrating, to the great joy of all, a Mass which the character of those assisting and the majesty of the wilderness combined to render solemn. The altar was erected on an elevation surrounded by branches of trees and garlands of flowers. It was a spectacle truly moving to the heart of a missionary to see this immense family composed of so many different tribes bowing down with equal humility before the Divine Host. The Canadians intoned hymns in French and Latin, the Indians chanted songs in their own mother tongue; all distinctions, all rivalries of peoples, were obliterated before a unanimous sentiment, that of Christian piety. Oh! it was truly a Catholic ceremony. This place has since been called la Prairie de la Messe. (Translated from Annales de la Propagation de la Foi, vol. 13 (1841), 488.)

Continued below.

Kansas AG files charges against newly reelected mayor for voting as non-US citizen

Coldwater mayor: Honest mistakes led to voter fraud charges

In his first interview since being accused of voting illegally by Kansas Attorney General Kris Kobach, Joe Ceballos, a self-described loyal Republican voter, contends he thought he could vote as a legal permanent resident.

Ceballos, the twice-elected mayor of Coldwater, Kansas, says he didn’t understand that as a Mexican immigrant he couldn’t vote in the United States.

An honest mistake, he said. But now he’s found himself in legal trouble that threatens to upend the life he’s spent half a century building.

He now faces felony charges for voter fraud, filed by Kris Kobach, the state attorney general.

Ceballos, 54, also thinks he “probably” voted for Kobach all four times Kobach ran for state office.

What’s worse than Kobach’s charges, he said, is that the Department of Homeland Security is now threatening him with starting that legal process called deportation.

“I haven’t seen Mexico since I was four,” Ceballos said. “I don’t speak Spanish anymore. If I get deported it would wreck my life.”

Ceballos’ friends are now ticked off. And not at Ceballos.

“If deportation happens, I can tell you that Kobach will have trouble showing up here, especially if he asks to stay with us for a while,” said Dennis Swayze, an 80-year-old Comanche County rancher and a Republican voter.
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Questions about liturgy: Flags Over a Coffin

Answered by Legionary of Christ Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy and sacramental theology at the Pontifical Regina Apostolorum university.

Q: What is the Church’s position about draping a coffin with a flag for the funeral of a returned serviceman? — P.G-W., Melbourne, Australia

A: The use of national or military flags on coffins at funerals of deceased service personnel is usually permitted, but only for certain parts of the funeral rites. It may occasionally be allowed for other persons who held important civic offices or were otherwise noteworthy public figures who warranted a state or public funeral. The practice does not usually pose problems to the conduct of the funeral Mass since flags or insignia are usually removed during the Mass and, where customary, a pall is placed on the coffin. In some places, this removal takes place at the entrance to the church. Any civic or military rituals usually follow the religious rites. Military funeral honors can be combined with religious rites. Some U.S. dioceses have specific norms for military funerals. One diocese points out, «Typically, religious ceremonies are conducted first, followed by the military honors, such as Taps, the flag presentation, and any optional rites like the three-volley salute or a flyover, before the casket is laid to rest.»

Continued below.
Questions about liturgy: Flags Over a Coffin | ZENIT - English

Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

Actually that would be the minority view not the majority. The majority of Christians view hell as infinite torment. A forever existing of maximum suffering in fire where the fire is some sort of supernatural "not like real fire in this life" process.




Matt 25:41 NASB 41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:6 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter


No matter what someone wishes to believe. The Bible is true. In all its statements on the subject

1. God is a "consuming fire" in Heb 12 rather than a fire "that does not consume'
2. John does not use the term hell for burning but rather the lake of fire. the apostle John never uses the term hell to mean place of torment or fire. Rather he uses the term "lake of fire" that "devours them" vs 9 " fire came down from heaven and devoured them." NASB
3. Luke 12 says each person is punished according to deeds, some receive much punishment and some less. Very different from "infinite punishment for all"
4. Ezek 28 says that Satan "will be turned to ashes on the Earth, You will cease to be forever"


18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

5. Matt 10:28 says God totally destroys both soul and body in hell as compared to the first death where men can "kill the body but not the soul"

6. Not one text says the wicked have eternal life. In Ezek 18 the wicked die and the righteous do not die.

7. In Rev 20 the wicked are "consumed" by fire that comes from God

8. Malachi 4:3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.
You are using symbolic language literally which is where you run into error.

Actually I am merely quoting the texts that you seem to find inconvenient.

My statement was that we do not get to the meaning of the Bible teaching on this topic by ignoring every detail in the texts that speak to the topic.


"the wages of sin is death" not eternal life , see Rom 8.

"the soul that sins it shall die" Ezek 18:4. That is speaking of the second death, seen in Rev 20. In Ezek 18 only the wicked die. That is not the case with the first death, the one that all die. It is only true of the second death , mentioned in Rev 21.
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‘Go to Berkeley’: Ron DeSantis said students seeking ‘woke’ classes should study elsewhere

If that were the case, then schools like BYU would've gone bankrupt. (they have a strict cultural code that would probably put his "New School Florida" to shame)

Not sure whether or not people were familiar with Brigham Young University's "Honor Code"

No Homosexuality allowed
No visitors of the opposite sex are allowed to come over
Men can't have long hair
No Piercings
Shorts have to be knee length
No Profanity
No coffee allowed
BYU is a private religious university and that is all pretty superficial and unexceptional for such a place. Where do they stand on more substantive culture war issues like gun control, global warming, universal health care, and the big one, Christian Nationalism? That would be more interesting to know.
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Lost tribes of Israel

There it is shown that the rule of the former empires will be abolished and handed over to one like a son of man, the Messiah:
Yas and the only chosen people will be all those of the Kingdom. Religion and ancestry is obsolete. Jesus went first to the House of Israel, and when they failed Him yet again, then later to the gentiles of all nations, for all of mankind was free to repent and pledge allegiance to the Kingdom,, no longer being slaves to the nations nor the elohim powers that still control them.
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Should Christians obsess over body image? John Piper answers

Pastor and bestselling author John Piper recently addressed how Christians should view their body image without falling into a state of dishonor when it comes to obsession with one's own outward appearance.

In an episode of the podcast "Ask Pastor John," posted to the Desiring God website last Thursday, an unnamed listener asked whether it was "sinful to enjoy how I look as I continue this healthy routine."

“I know it's good to be healthy, as it gives me more energy and makes me feel better day-by-day, but I don't want to fall back into obsession or dishonor God with my focus," the listener noted.

"I understand He should be first in all things, including my fitness. But if I notice my body changing, is that wrong? And if so, how can I turn away from that?"

Piper, chancellor of Bethlehem College and Seminary in Minneapolis, Minnesota, who served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church for over 30 years, encouraged listeners to reject statements like, "I enjoy how I look," or "Is it OK to notice how I look?" when talking about one's own appearance.

"Even though both of those sentences might be totally innocent in general, that way of talking is going to go hand in hand with a perception — maybe not a reality, but a perception — that this person is a little excessively concerned about personal appearance, even if that's not true," Piper said.

Continued below.

In general any time "enjoy how I look" is said, something "not good" is sure to follow. Don't use those kinds of statements.

But I do agree that "How I look" should reflect well on Christianity and God our Maker. We should try in general to look our best.

1 Corinthians 10:31: "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God"

So then we should not seek to be morbidly obese for the "glory of God" or to be emaciated for the glory of God. Or to look like a slob etc.

"Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God".

Some people engage in "suicide by what we choose to eat". I don't think God approves of that.

Nor does He approve of "suicide by not caring enough to live healthy"

It is one thing to endure persecution from others, it is another to have to endure your own persecution of your own body
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Father Bob and his bicycle: How this 88-year-old priest serves Bangladesh’s disabled children

Father Robert Terence McCahill, a Maryknoll missionary who works in health care for poor, disabled people in Bangladesh, marks 50 years of service in the country in this first week of December.

Over his five decades in Bangladesh, McCahill has visited 13 administrative districts in the Muslim-majority nation, spending three years in each one serving the people there. He left Srinagar in Munshiganj district near Dhaka in late November after completing three years there, though he does not yet know where he will go next.

“I think that just as Jesus was not tied to one place and asked to spread the word of God, I travel around and reach people of all religions with love and work,” McCahill told CNA on Nov. 18.

Continued below.

I am comforted to know that there are others like me - Now, what about salvation?

Two of my favorite resources about OCD are scrupulosity.com and Mark DeJesus YouTube videos. Scrupulosity.com has a helpful group coaching program, as well as loads of articles about different scrupulosity topics. Here is one:Why Do I Always Have Salvation Doubts? - Scrupulosity.com
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My husband's health

Please pray that my husband Robb is healthy and happy mind and body and that nothing is wrong. Please ask God that if it is His will He gives my husband good health, less stress and anxiety. I also please ask that you pray for my son Jakeb's health mind and body. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you. Carmen
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Churches vandalized in Sudan with Islamic Shahadah written on walls

Two churches in Port Sudan were defaced in coordinated acts of vandalism, with Islamic declarations painted in red graffiti on their exterior walls. The incidents occurred last week in the center of the city’s market area.

At the Sudan Evangelical Presbyterian Church, the Islamic Shahadah, which reads “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger,” was scrawled alongside a Qur’anic verse, “There is no God but He, the Lord of the Honorable Throne,” the U.K.-based group Christian Solidarity Worldwidereported.

On the walls of the nearby Orthodox Church, vandals sprayed the phrase “Allah is eternal.”

Continued below.

4 reactions to spiritual, allegorical concepts in 'Wicked: For Good'

Following the release of “Wicked: For Good,” many people have reacted to the film’s spiritual and allegorical elements and what it says about friendships, morality and the idea of good versus evil.

“Wicked: For Good,” which officially debuted in theatres on Nov. 21, is the second half of the film adaptation of the stage musical, which premiered on Broadway in 2003. The first movie, released in November 2024, covered Act One of the musical, while the latest film is an adaptation of Act Two.

Here are four notable reactions to “Wicked: For Good.”

Plugged In

Writing for Focus on the Family’s Plugged In, which reviews popular forms of entertainment to help families navigate the culture, Emily Tsiao wrote that “Wicked: For Good” is “just as magical and musical” as the first film. She also praised the movie’s “endearing story of enduring friendship,” which she predicted would drive many people to tears.

Continued below.

What would have happened to Adam and Eve and Cain after death?

Like for everyone else, repentance is key.
Be blessed
Genesis 4:25 NIV
[25] Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”

I think this verse implies that Cane eventually repented. But I cannot confirm it.
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GOD'S REAL ISRAEL AND THE TRUE CHURCH?

Sainthood signifies a positional status in Christ—being set apart by God for His special use and purpose. It does not imply sinless perfection, but a calling to live a life that reflects God's moral purity.

Just to clarify ...

The term "saints" in the New Testament epistles is used by Paul to address living members of the church (e.g., in Rome, Corinth, and Philippi), not just deceased individuals who have been canonized by a church.
Incorrect. Paul says, Ephesians 2:19,20. The whole building including the foundation is a dwelling place for GODS SPIRIT. Furthermore, in Hebrews 11:40 these preChrist saints of the same faith as you and I will be in the first resurrection with us, and only the church is in the first resurrection. These preChrist saints are the root of the olive tree in Romans 11:18 We, you and I are children of Abraham according to faith, the same faith Abraham and all these ancient saints had. The church did not begin on Pentecost. Pentecost was stage 2 the calling of the Gentiles. This is one reason why Paul is the dominant writer of the New Testament. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy to call the Gentiles. The church goes back before the law was even given. One reason why Christ came was to confirm the covenant, the promises made to the fathers. Romans 15:8 What the vast majority of people do not know is that the promises, the new covenant was given to Abraham but needed confirmation by Jesus Christ. This is the real reason why Jesus was baptized by John, to fulfill all righteousness. John didn’t even have the authority to baptize with the Holy Spirit, that authority belonged to Jesus as confirmed by Johns own words. Matthew 3:11 and this is further proven by Acts 19:3-7 The baptism of Jesus was also the fulfillment of the sign given to John to identify the messiah. John 1:33 Many people fail to live by every word of GOD. What I have written here is true but I can’t prove it to anyone because only GOD can open a persons eyes to see and ears to hear. The information I have given here can be used to correct many errors that exist in understanding but only the church has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of GOD to all others it has not be given. Matthew 13:11 The one called, Loves Gods Word, has knowledge and he may know these things as well.
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The Reality of Free Will

"of" is still a preposition, so "will" is still a noun.

Not really. The synonym list is something I already knew. In fact, in semantics there are even more. When people start talking about free will they end up collapsing distinct categories --> voluntariness, autonomy, and intent into one synonym set. <--That’s equivocation. Some also claim free will means they could've done the other. <-- Another form of equivocation. The bottom line is it's not a stable term if not qualified.

But it doesn't matter how much the meaning of free will changes, because like I said in Genesis 3:17 God says Adam ‘hearkened’ (shāmaʿ) to the woman, which rules out voluntariness and autonomy. The only sense left is intent, which is not the case when one is being persuaded, so there is no philosophical construct of self‑determination in the text.


I didn't say free will is a noun, I said "will" is a noun in this sentence -> Thus Adam acted on his own free will.

I’m not changing my argument. I’m addressing how you’re using the phrase “free will.” You’re sliding between adverbial voluntariness (“willingly”), noun level capacity (self‑determination), and mere intent, then denying the noun when pressed.

My argument is this: Genesis 3:17 says Adam “hearkened” to the woman, which denotes obedience to persuasion. That rules out autonomy and voluntariness. If by “free will” you only mean intent, then say intent. But the OP accuses Adam using a philosophical construct of self‑determination the text does not provide.
Well, I'm glad to hear you admit you are not addressing the OP, but only an argument that exists in your head, because the OP is proving free will exists in man. Nothing else.
Since you do not have anything against this information,

The Bible says, at Hosea 14:4, in part...
I will freely love them / I will love them freely
The Hebrew expression nedabah (נְדָבָה) is rendered freewill offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary, offering, willingly, offering.
This Hebrew word comes from the Hebrew word nadab, of which Topical Lexicon says...
The verb נָדַב consistently underlines a movement of the heart that is neither coerced nor merely dutiful. It describes people stirred from within to give, serve, or step forward because they have first been moved by God. Throughout Scripture this spirit of readiness is linked to worship, stewardship, civic responsibility, and warfare, revealing a multifaceted biblical theology of voluntary devotion.

At 1 Corinthians 9:16-18, verse 17 says,
For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if unwillingly, I am entrusted with a stewardship.
Paul uses the Greek word hekón: Willing, Voluntary. Which means of one's own free will.
According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon...
STRONGS NT 1635: ἑκών
ἑκών, ἑκοῦσα, ἑκον, unforced, voluntary, willing, of one's own will, of one's own accord: Romans 8:20; 1 Corinthians 9:17. (From Homer down.)

At Philemon 1:14, Paul says...
But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness will not be out of compulsion, but by your own free will (Berean Standard Bible; NASB; Amplified Bible; Christian Standard Bible; Holman Christian Standard Bible; American Standard Version; English Revised Version; New Heart English Bible; Majority Standard Bible; World English Bible; Smith's Literal Translation; Anderson New Testament; Godbey New Testament) / according to willingness / willingly / voluntary / not something forced.
The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
voluntary
adjective​
Done or undertaken of one's own free will.​
a voluntary decision to leave the job.​
Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward.​
a voluntary hostage; voluntary community work.​
Normally controlled by or subject to individual volition.​
The act of willing or choosing; the act of forming a purpose; the exercise of the will.​
The result of an act or exercise of choosing or willing; a state of choice.​
The power of willing or determining; will.​

As well as this information
Adjective

Voluntarily imposed upon oneself
voluntary

freewill

uncoerced

unforced

willing

willful

intended

deliberate

conscious

ungrudging

willingly given

intentional

free-willed

Then we have nothing else to talk about.
Freewill; Free will; Free-willed decisions are indeed a reality.
That is my point.
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The Electrical Nature of the Universe

The term AS moves such scriptural statements OFF literal understanding and INTO spiritual insights
Rubbish.
Maybe you could tell us what "spiritual insights' you get from Isaiah 30:26a?

The sun can make very bright flashes, one happened yesterday:
At 0249 UTC, a previously overlooked sunspot exploded. The X1.9 category flash is shown here in an extreme ultraviolet image from NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory: Quote from spaceweather.com 12/1/2025

What will happen will not be 'doom and gloom' for the Lords faithful peoples, as verse 26b says.
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Trump pardons Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, all fake electors for their attempt to overturn 2020 election, pardon official says

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is an excuse, because you're not looking at the actions of Donald Trump on their own merits, and not holding him accountable. Instead you point at the other side and say "they do it too"... which I would argue is not only an excuse, but a false equivalency.
Too much “What about” while disowning own faults.
So I'm guessing what is being implied here is that the Democrats "cheated" in the 2020 election? If that is what you are saying, I will pose this question: If the democrats / "deep state" have such control over elections - then how did Trump win in 2024? If these unnamed powers were able to cheat in 2020 and make Joe Biden win, then how did Trump win in 2024 if there is such an underhanded conspiracy against him?
That is easy: he won in spite of the powers against him because he is so well liked. We could make up any answer because facts do not matter. All that matters is what Trump says. How did we ever get this far down onto untruth?
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

You are correct. T

The spirit of GOD in true Christians enables in us a change of nature, we partake of the divine nature that doesn’t need to be commanded but is motivated by GODS love in us. Love fulfills law. The Ten Commandments will pass away when heaven and Earth pass away, Revelation 21:1 the Ten Commandments are not for a converted righteous man but for carnal unconverted sinners . Jesus paid the penalty for our breaking the Ten Commandments, once , he will not die for you again if you go back to them again.
Nope ... God's laws are eternal .... what is sin? Transgression of the law ... He died to uphold the law and make it honorable ... not get rid of it.

We will ALL be judged by the law

There was law in heaven ... satan and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven because they violated the law.

The law leads us to Christ and after receiving Him as Lord and Savior then the Holy Spirit helps us overcome sin.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws .... there is something wrong with us and one day we will be completely changed

The first resurrection is the moment of change: It's at this point that the "corruptible" becomes "incorruptible" and the "mortal" becomes "immortal".
Sinless perfection is a future state: It is a promise to be fully realized in the resurrection, not a state achieved by believers while still living in a mortal body.

Psalm 119:160: "All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal". This verse is frequently cited to support the perpetual nature of God's laws.
  • Psalm 111:7-8: "The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever".
  • Psalm 119:44: "So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever".
  • Psalm 119:89: "Your eternal word, O LORD, stands firm in heaven".
NONE are righteous ... no not one.
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WHAT DOES PAUL. SAID OF Eph 1 : 4. !!

And what do. you mean , BUT it still. HAD actually happen. before. it apples. ??

Read Rom 9:11. and what do you say. it MEANS ??

dan p
It means that It was only a promise until it actually happened. Physical Israel is a OT type of spiritual Israel. Esau is physical Israel. Jacob is spiritual Israel. Spiritual Israel is elect "in Christ" only. All those in spiritual Israel are "in Christ" as a result of faith and then they become elect with Jesus. Jesus is the One elect. We become elect when we are placed in Him, per Eph. 1:1-14. We are placed in Him when we receive the Holy Spirit indwelling as a result of faith always (Eph. 1:13-14). With the Holy Spirit indwelling we are In Christ, without the indwelling we are not in Christ (Romans 8:9-10). Paul said "we" are the first fruits of the Spirit, meaning the firstfruits of the indwelling (Romans 8:23), the baptism with the Holy Spirit Jesus promised when He, Jesus was lifted up, the promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit, which is part of the promises that those in Hebrews died having not received. OT believers were not in Christ, thus they were not elect except by promise until Pentecost, when they were placed into Christ. All they had was a promise that was to come. They were all still in Adam, yet God knew them already. All that the Father gives me I shall not lose one of them. The Sheep. This is who Romans 8:29 is speaking of. These were already known by God, He predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son (starts when places in Him), those He called with the Gospel message.... None had yet ascended until the cross because they were not yet "in Christ" and born again (John 3:1-14).
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