Apple Sky said:

God stopped the sun & the moon from circuiting the skies - Amen.

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It is exactly what Joshua saw, but we don’t know how God actually did it. It is a truthful eyewitness account of a human being.

The Church of England made history on October 3 by naming Sarah Mullally, 63, as the first woman to hold the post of Archbishop of Canterbury, a landmark decision in the Church’s 1,400-year history. A former Bishop of London and nurse by profession, Archbishop-designate Mullally’s elevation to the highest seat in the Anglican Communion has sparked both celebration and reflection, not least among scholars of media and politics.

The announcement has not only marked a historic moment for the Anglican Church but also revealed how different media institutions frame the intersection of faith, gender, and modernity. The varying portrayals of Mullally’s appointment across global outlets, from The Guardian and BBC to CNN, Associated Press, and Deutsche Welle (DW) demonstrate how the same event can be interpreted through distinct ideological and cultural lenses.

Breaking the “Stained-Glass Ceiling”

The Associated Press (AP) chose to frame Mullally’s appointment as a moment of rupture with ecclesiastical tradition, describing it as “shattering a stained-glass ceiling.” Quoting George Gross, an expert on monarchy and religion at King’s College London, AP noted, “If you can have a female prime minister and a female monarch, why can’t you have a female archbishop?” Yet this framing, while rhetorically effective, reveals an implicit conflation between the secular and the sacred spheres, a logical fallacy from the perspective of political theology, which upholds the distinction between church and state.

The AP’s additional portrayal of Mullally as “first among equals” subtly reinforces the notion of measured progress within a hierarchical institution, acknowledging both the historic nature of the decision and the ongoing resistance within traditionalist circles.

“Renewal and Hope” or “Bitterly Contested Equality”?

Continued below.

Wolseley said:

Now there are reports coming out that Nick Reiner was attempting a "transgender conversion" and was pumped full of synthetic hormones in preparation for a sex change. Whether the hormones had anything to do with driving him over the edge is unknown.

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Really? I have not ran across that yet.

The last quarter century in Western cultural life has been wasted. Everything is a little bit mid, as the kids say. There have been impressive individual works of art and entertainment. But taken as a whole, the picture is bleak: our artistic output is derivative and cheaply didactic, either moralizing or starved for moral judgment and ideas. Now, as cultural criticism confronts this epochal failure, it’s easy to cast partisan blame, with a still-dominant Left critical establishment training its sights on the Right.
Easy — but inaccurate.

Cultural life in the 21st century doesn’t feel tortured or ecstatic so much as muted. We aren’t truly bored anymore; boredom has been technologically abolished. Every stray second can be plastered over with a feed, a notification, a video “For You,” an algorithmic recommendation tuned precisely to prevent mental calm. But neither are we animated. There are widespread predictions of a coming civil war and calls for a political uprising, yet neither is remotely on the horizon — because we aren’t passionate enough. Instead, we drift in a gray zone between stimulation and stupor, provoked but under-engaged, surrounded by infinite novelty that no longer feels all that novel.

Our clothes arrive in two days and fall apart in three. Travel is cheaper, but cities blur into one another, interchangeable landscapes of chain restaurants, and “authentically curated” coffee shops identical from Denver to Dublin. The internet, once a wild frontier, now feels like a series of endlessly recycled aesthetics: girl dinner, cottagecore, blokecore, everything a core, everything a remix.

It’s precisely this sense of living in a stagnant wasteland that Blank Space, W. David Marx’s wide-ranging survey of 21st century-culture, tries to map. In his previous polemic, 2022’s Status and Culture, the Tokyo-based culture-vulture took a sanguine approach to contemporary life, arguing that the omnivorous approach to cultural consumption in the West — where there is no more snobbery, and where elites enjoy “not just high culture, but pop and indie, niche and mass, new and old, domestic and foreign, primitive and sophisticated” — is by and large a good thing for the sake of flattening the class distinctions of old. We were slouching toward equality.

Now, Marx worries that the lack of pretense in contemporary culture is no utopia, that it might mean we’re all eating from the same trough of slop. Across nearly 400 increasingly exasperated pages, Marx convincingly argues that art, entertainment, and fashion since the year 2000 have been some combination of uninspired, recycled, soulless, corporatized, or plainly dumb — so much so that there is a blank space where a distinct cultural imprint should be.

Continued below.

Archaeologists in Turkey have discovered a fresco of a Roman-looking Jesus as the "Good Shepherd," which is being hailed as one of the most important finds from Anatolia's early Christian era.

The work of art was found in August in an underground tomb near the town of Iznik, where the Nicene Creed, a foundational statement of Christian belief, was adopted in A.D. 325. The tomb itself is believed to date back to the third century, when the area was still under the Roman Empire and Christians faced persecution.



Archaeologists clean and restore frescoes inside a 3rd-century tomb where a rare early Christian depiction of Jesus as the "Good Shepherd" was discovered, in Iznik, Turkey, Friday, Dec. 12, 2025.(Khalil Hamra/AP Photo)

Continued below.

"I personally very much hope that such a process will be opened": Archbishop Georg Gänswein desires a beatification process for Benedict XVI. In an interview, he also commented on the pope's theology and the Traditional Latin Mass.​

Archbishop Georg Gänswein hopes that a beatification process will be opened for the late Pope Benedict XVI (2005–2013). "I personally very much hope that such a process will be opened," said the former private secretary of Benedict and current Apostolic Nuncio to the Baltic States in an interview with the television station K-TV.

According to the station, Gänswein also emphasized the central element of Benedict's understanding of faith in the interview. A key word in this regard is "joy." For the German pope, faith was both the source and the measure of joy. If faith doesn't lead to joy, "something is still not quite right with the life of faith. Ratzinger, Benedict XVI, is a theologian of joy," said Gänswein, who also reaffirmed the importance of continuity in faith: "We mustn't cut into the substance; rather, we must allow ourselves to be shaped by the Lord, by the faith of the Church."

Extraordinary Rite: Back to Benedict's "wise arrangement"

Continued below.

This image making also includes a nude Pieta. Their website has more.

And if you thought that was shocking, the exhibition has been praised by the Artists' Bishop Glettler, the Parish Priest of the Cathedral Parish and a Jesuit even writes in its praise in the programme.

"'Du sollst Dir ein Bild machen' exhibition at the Vienna Künstlerhaus – well-deserved rating: a must-see! [...] The exhibition is evidence of the endless struggle to somehow do justice to the mystery of God, who has inscribed himself into a wounded world." – Bishop Hermann Glettler, Innsbruck (on Instagram)



Bishop Glettler who was thought in the running for Vienna

samaus123456789 said:

Didascalia Apostolorum

Didascalia on Early Christian Writings: the New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, and Church Fathers: information and translations of Gospels, Epistles, and documents of early Christianity.

www.earlychristianwritings.com

This text internally is written by the apostles in Jerusalem. It contains phrases like I Peter, me Peter, I Mathew , we apostles.
Epiphanius Salamis 300s AD said it was written by the apostles like it said. So I believe it was written pre 70 AD, and is inspired scripture. It is a lot like the Didache which also internally dates to before 70 AD but Didascalia is a lot longer. It is on audiobook here

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Here is chat GPT summary of the teachings of the text

The Didascalia Apostolorum presents itself as apostolic instruction, spoken in the collective voice of the apostles with Peter as chief spokesman, addressing how Christian communities are to live faithfully before God; it teaches that believers are no longer bound to the ritual requirements of the Mosaic Law, emphasizing instead moral obedience, repentance, mercy, and care for the poor, while portraying the bishop as a shepherd and physician who must govern gently, restore sinners, and guard the community from injustice; the text regulates church order, family life, sexual conduct, the roles of women and widows, almsgiving, and discipline, consistently stressing that authority exists for healing and salvation rather than punishment, and that Christian life replaces temple sacrifice with prayer, charity, and faithful endurance amid opposition.

It uses the word Catholic which means universal. There is no Mary worship in the text. It says Peter was buried in the Vatican

Chat GPT

In the first century, there was no “Vatican” as an institution and no St. Peter’s Basilica. The area now called the Vatican was simply Vatican Hill (Mons Vaticanus)—a low hill outside Rome’s sacred boundary (pomerium) on the west bank of the Tiber. It was largely non-urban, used for gardens, cemeteries (necropolis), and imperial leisure. Under Caligula and Nero, a large chariot-racing stadium—the Circus of Nero (or Circus of Caligula)—stood there. According to early Christian memory, Nero executed Christians in this area, and Peter was martyred nearby, traditionally buried in the adjacent necropolis. That grave became the focal point for later veneration, which—centuries later—led Constantine to build the first basilica over it (4th century).

Summary: In the first century, the “Vatican” was a geographic location tied to imperial Rome and early Christian martyrdom, not a church state or headquarters; its later significance grew because of Peter’s burial, not because it already held authority.

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This is not part of the canon of Scripture, so whatever merits it may have, even however 'inspired' it may be, it does not belong in a Bible.

As to your ChatGPT, well, ai;dr

BPPLEE said:

I didn’t say anything about 20 million. If you believe that is the total amount of illegal immigrants in the country I believe that the number is higher than that. I wouldn’t try to guess what the actual number is

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Oh okay. I misunderstood when you said you suspected that the actual number [of what? total or recent arrivals?] was "higher rather than lower" without specifically saying higher or lower than what. I just assumed you were referring to the number mentioned rather than some unspoken, unknown. My bad.

So this thread goes to show how many are actually focusing on the Nativity versus divisive political messaging. People often put their politics ahead of the Faith.

Michie said:

Some Protestant scholars who spoke with CNA welcomed a Vatican document that clarified titles for the Blessed Virgin Mary that discouraged the use of Co-Redemptrix/Co-Redeemer and put limits on the use of Mediatrix/Mediator.

The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) issued the doctrinal note Mater Populi Fidelis on Nov. 4. It was approved by Pope Leo XIV and signed by DDF Prefect Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández on Oct. 7.

According to the document, using “Co-Redemptrix” to explain Mary’s role in salvation “would not be appropriate.” The document is less harsh about using “Mediatrix” and says “if misunderstood, it could easily obscure or even contradict” Mary’s role in mediation.

The document affirms Mary plays a role in both redemption and mediation because she freely cooperates with Jesus Christ. That role, it explains, is always “subordinate” to Christ, and it warned against using titles in a way that could be misconstrued to mitigate Christ as the sole Redeemer and sole Mediator.

Catholic reactions have been mixed, with some seeing the clarification as helpful and others defending the titles as consistent with the understanding of Mary’s role as subordinate and asking the Vatican to formally define the doctrines themselves rather than simply issue a note on the titles.

Positive reactions from Protestants​

Continued below.

Some Protestant scholars welcome Vatican document clarifying Marian titles

Some Protestant scholars welcomed a Vatican document that clarified titles for the Blessed Virgin Mary.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

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The 'clarification' muddied the waters considerably AND actually backfired in raising interest in a very tiny aspect of Marian devotion. Sure, some Protestants will be excited. But it is not an 'advance' as much as a confusion from a very confused and confusing prelate. Diane Montagna asked Fernandez about this in an interview and he retreated to say that we can believe what we want about Mary but for Vatican purposes they just won't say it. It would have been far better to do exactly what pope Benedict did, to rather quietly say that nothing new could yet be defined. OR to have the balls to say that it was just wrong to even think Mary was a co-redemptrix if they thought that to be the case. What we got was weaselly doublespeak confusion. Not an advance. One of the worst sorts of retreats.

“It’s never too late to fulfill a dream.”​

Photo credit: Caldas Newspaper

A century of waiting finally came to an end—wrapped in emotion, deep faith, and even a few tears.

100-year-old José Francisco recently received Baptism, First Communion, and Confirmation all on the same day!

The ceremony took place at the Church of A-dos-Francos in Portugal and was celebrated by Father João de Brito with support from the Parish of Caldas da Rainha.

José was born in the same town and spent his entire life working in agriculture. A father of seven—six daughters and one son—he made sure all his children were baptized, even though he himself never was. The desire, however, remained quietly alive in his heart for decades.

How did it all begin?​

The dream began to take shape thanks to an initiative of the Rotary Community Development Center (NRDC) of Caldas da Rainha and the Academy of Dreams. This past July, José participated in an activity that offered seniors immersive experiences through 360-degree virtual-reality glasses.

He “attended” a dance through virtual reality and, deeply moved, symbolically stepped out of the isolation of the room where he spends most of his time.

During a conversation with the team, he opened up about an old regret: never having been baptized.

He explained that the hardships of rural life—long days, exhaustion, and lack of time—kept him from receiving the sacraments. Now at 100, he felt it was “no longer worth it.” But the team encouraged him, insisting,

“It’s never too late to fulfill a dream.”

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Spiritual Preparation​

Continued below.

André Rieu - Out standing.

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Please pray that my son Jakeb will have a good day mind and body and get to his Doctor appointment. Please pray that he can handle the stress and come home happy. Please pray that he even has the courage to go. I also ask that the Doctor can help him and God shows us what to do and that there is nothing seriously wrong with him and that Jesus will put his healing hands upon my son. I pray that him and his dad get there and home safely. Dear God, please let this go well and heal my son. Please Dear God. I love You Dear GOd and I love You Dear Jesus. In Jesus name I pray. Thank you for prayers and God bless you.

The perennially popular representation of the passion, death, and resurrection of Christ, held every Holy Week in the Iztapalapa sector of Mexico City, has been declared a Cultural Heritage of Humanity by the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).

The decision was made during a UNESCO meeting in New Delhi, India, where the nomination of the Iztapalapa Way of the Cross was reviewed and approved.

Speaking at the event, Edaly Quiroz, deputy director of Mexico’s National Institute of Anthropology and History, said that Holy Week in Iztapalapa is not merely a theatrical performance but a manifestation “of unity, faith, and resilience that brings together thousands of people in a collective exercise of memory, identity, and participation.”

On its website, UNESCO states that this list includes “practices, knowledge, and expressions that communities recognize as part of their cultural identity” and emphasizes the need to protect them for future generations.

Continued below.

Tom8907 said:

Great points!

We don't need to grow spiritually by going on a 'pilgrimage' to Israel, we are fully equipped to spiritually grow through reading God's word, prayer and joining a local Gospel church.

The body of Christ is Israel, not the nation that calls itself Israel.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with going on a pilgrimage to Israel. Some people will draw closer to God just by physically seeing places that are in scripture and walk where Jesus walked. Is it "required", no but I wouldn't condemn people who want to do it either.

Christsfreeservant said:

And let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth. And do not give your worship and undying devotion to any human being or people group, but give all your worship and devotion to God alone, to Jesus Christ who is the one who gave his life up for us on that cross so that, by God-persuaded faith in him, we will now die to sin and obey our Lord and his commands in practice, and have eternal life with God.

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I agree. People give Pastors/Priests/People FAR too much credit and treat them as if everything they scripturally say is truth instead of letting God teach you. And I also agree that this idea that ethnic Jews are somehow superior/better is gross. It's propping up a country that is 98% lost (and that's being considerate) and condoning behavior that you wouldn't give to anyone else. We should be praying for their salvation, for them to turn to God, for them to see that just because they are born Jewish, does not automatically mean they are the "light of the world". They lost that title when they failed to do what they were supposed to do, which is why the torch was passed to the gentiles.

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious." - Romans 11:11

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That doesn't mean Gentiles can now go to heaven, it means that gentiles are now the ones who teach salvation. Hence why Paul was sent to the gentiles and taught how to start churches. Our view towards Israel should be to try and save them so when Jesus comes, He can claim His inheritance that was started all the way back in Exodus and rule and reign from Jerusalem. All of Israel will eventually be saved:

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

'The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.'" - Romans 11:25-27

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Meaning, spreading the gospel to the Jews via the gentiles will eventually save them. This is the meaning of the blooming of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-33, Mark 13:28-29, Luke 21:29-31). When their faith blooms and they finally turn to Christ.

So, if we continually prop up an unsaved nation, that is never going to help save them in the end. We need to pray for their salvation, and back efforts to spread the gospel in Israel.

Q: Who changed the Sabbath?

DamianWarS said:

this is a loaded question. The Sabbath is not Sunday. Sunday is not the Sabbath (so please stop presenting it this way).

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Sadly all the Confessions of Faith of major Christian groups claim you are wrong. I can't ignore all of Christianity just because you don't like their claim that in the first century the Sabbath commandment was edited by traidition to point to Sunday instead of Saturday. This is true of the example list I provide in the signature line in every post I make here.

Toggle signature

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today, and the ones below claim the Sabbath commandment was edited to point to week day one in the first century.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

BobRyan said:

The Faith Explained (an RC commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on Page 242 that
====================begin short summary
"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

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BobRyan said:

page 243

"nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day From Saturday to Sunday. We know of the change only from the tradition of the Church - a fact handed down to us...that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many Non-Catholics, who say that they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and Yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church"

I have a new thread on the antinomian idea that some are so fond of. You might enjoy that thread

Antinomianism, definition and a Question "is this you"?

Definition for "Antinomianism" AI: Antinomianism is a term used in Christian theology to describe the belief that, because salvation is granted by divine grace through faith, believers are not bound by the moral law of God, including the Ten Commandments. The word itself comes from the Greek...

www.christianforums.com

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DamianWarS said:

Using the NT to preach a 10 commandment system is counter-gospel

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I have a new thread on your antinomian idea above. You might enjoy that thread

dogs4thewin said:

Trump was stupid if he thought he could deport tens of millions of people in four years anyway. What he should do is just deport if they get caught otherwise breaking the law, OR if they apply for assistance as long as they are pulling their own weight and being productive let them be.

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It’s not four years, but one year. The White House will undergo some reshuffling and restructuring by mid-January next year. It will be interesting to see which side of the political spectrum prevails—whether true believers like Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem succeed, or pragmatists like JD Vence and Marco Rubio, who have ambitions beyond the Trump presidency.

Seventy percent of Hispanic voters disapprove of the Trump administration, reversing Republican gains with this group that have occurred since 1996. This majority of Hispanic voters oppose the current administration’s immigration policy, which they view as affecting them directly in their homes and communities—making it a personal issue unlike economic or other domestic policies. As a result, these voters are unlikely to return to support the GOP in the near future.

Recent Miami mayoral election results indicate that Cuban Americans are shifting away from the GOP for the first time in 60 years, despite historically being steady Republican voters.

In January, three groups within the Republican Party are expected to engage in significant political debate: Trump MAGA supporters such as Stephen Miller, ambitious figures like Vance or Rubio, and Republicans campaigning in swing states.

If Stephen Miller prevails in the debate, it will diminish the GOP's prospects of securing another congressional or presidential victory for at least the next 15 years. This perspective is understood by JD Vance, Marco Rubio, and the majority of Republicans.

If Stephen Miller and MAGA prevail, it won't be another three years; it will be another 13 months. By January 2027, Congress will be controlled by Democrats. Miller and his associates will spend more time appearing before Congress and answering questions than pressuring ICE.

ThatRobGuy said:

I responded to that point before, linking information about what the NCPC chair had stated.


In September, the commission chair clarified during a public meeting of the NCPC that the approval process is only required for construction, not demolition or site preparation work.

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From the article:

Asked questions about the lawsuit, White House spokesman David Ingle responded with a blanket assertion that Trump is within his “full legal authority to modernize, renovate and beautify the White House — just like all of his predecessors did.”

Thats the heart of the lawsuit: does this enormous and consequential building require any sort of review process before construction? The president, per above, says no. Sensible observers may roll their eyes at the new Lincoln bathroom marble remodel horror, while they acknowledge its the presidents prerogative. But a whole new massive building that completely changes the White House site context? Sensible people are understandably shocked that the pres has sole discretion over such a thing with no review process at all.

Jimmy Lai, the Catholic human rights advocate whose long-running national security trial in China has drawn criticism and charges of persecution, was found guilty on Dec. 15 of multiple violations of China’s national security laws, bringing an end to several years of what advocates have described as a politically motivated show trial against a popular Hong Kong publisher.

Lai, 78, is facing up to life in prison. His sentence will be handed down at a later date.

His U.K.-based attorneys at Doughty Street Chambers on Dec. 15 called the verdict “a stain on a once enviable Hong Kong legal system.” Lead counsel Caoilfhionn Gallagher described Lai as “a brave, brilliant 78-year-old man” convicted in a “vindictive and grossly unfair verdict.”

“After five long years of imprisonment, which violates international law, it is time to end this sham process and release Mr Lai,” she said. “If China fails to release him immediately and unconditionally, the international community must hold China to account.”

Continued below.

Five men have been arrested on suspicion of planning an Islamist-motivated vehicle attack at a Christmas market in southern Germany. The suspects had intended to drive a car into a crowd, aiming to kill or injure as many people as possible, according to authorities.

Three Moroccans, an Egyptian and a Syrian were detained Friday on suspicion of planning to drive a vehicle into a Christmas market in the Dingolfing-Landau district of Bavaria, the BBC reported. Investigators said the exact market has not been identified, but it is believed to be in the area northeast of Munich.

Prosecutors said formal arrest warrants were issued for four men, with the fifth held in preventative custody, according to DW. The arrests followed surveillance that allegedly uncovered discussions among the men about using a vehicle to carry out the attack.

Continued below.

stevevw said:

We would be asking the Egyptians and the ancients themselves directly. How else. If its based on direct conscious experience. Then just like any experience of nature and reality we ask the experiencer. We don't deny their experiences. Their beliefs and their own stories about their experiences.

This is the very thing I am talking about in how western scientific materialism denied and destroyed indigenous knowledge. They did not believe them and dismissed it as superstition or make believe.

So now we are left with a dilemma. The truth of indigenous and ancient knowledge by way of direct experiences. Or the material sciences who demand evidence because they believe the only true knowledge is empiricle.

Yes and the context has been verified. It was always existing and part of the original works. Now one in 1934 went around melting stones all over Peru lol. Just like no one went around in the mid 20th century putting machine cuts in the stones all over Egypt.

So what do you say now. Was this a natural event or was this human made.

Not necessarily. If for example we establish that the stones in the Temple example in Peru are verified as vitrified and human made. Then if we verify another in say Egypt or say Turkey with similar features and signatures.

We can then begin to see a pattern in other vitrified alters, or monuments in other places around the world from around that same time. Even though we have not specifically checked each work the building evidence of similarities lends weight to it being the same thing. That there was common knowledge around the world in how to soften and melt stone.

The same wwith the Fortress melted stones. They have a unique signature to them. We can immediately tell the difference between naturally forming and man made. They have a specific signature that is unusual to the man made as opposed to natural. You could identify them without having to test them.

I am not talking about what they may show later. I am talking about the first step which is observational science. You have to acknowledge whats before your eyes before you can investigate what it is lol.

If the observation looks like a machine cut then you first have to acknowledge it looks like a machine cut. If you said it looked like something else that it did not look like then your biasing the entire investigation by denying the observations. That is why I spend so much time on images and allow people to be the scientists initially. To see if they first even acknowledge the clear and obvious observations.

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It doesn't look like a machine cut to me.

stevevw said:

You even alluded to this observation when you said that maybe someone from 1934 made the vitrified stones. You acknowledged the observations that it looked like vitrified stones.

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Or very well polished stone.

stevevw said:

So that is all I am first saying. Then we can establish whether or not this is the case.

You are skeptical and say it may be a forgery. This is similar to the provenance of the vases. Another poster implied a machine cut example was a 20th century forgery.

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Why not, how did they exclude that possibility?

stevevw said:

But this is where the overall evidence comes in. If we can acknowledge that we see a common signature of vitrified and softened stones around the world. Then it begins to look like more than nature and more man made without having to check everyone.

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Everyone needs to be checked.

stevevw said:

I can't remember the context I said this. But its usually a general statement of what has been happening in the thread and not just you or you in particular. That its taken all these pages to even get people to acknowledge the images shows it has been resisted.

If people did acknowledge the images for what they are then we would have been well down the track to establishing whether this was man made or natural. Referring back to my point. If it was acknowledge that there are common vitrified and softened stones in ancient works around the world. Then we would not bneed peer review lol. Thats good enough to say its vitrified, and man made for obvious reasons because its been acknowledged lol. Its self evident.

Unless you want to claim the rediculous idea that it was a big coincident that these vitrified stones just happen to be on the works and not the surrounding areas around them and they just happened to occur specifically in these Temples and works by accident lol.

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The only vitrified stone supported by an article that you have presented have been made without any appeals to ancient technology or lost knowledge.

stevevw said:

Ah then tell me or explain to me how they don't look like machine marks and look more like the traditional method. But don't just say, "no they are not or nothing and dismiss them.

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My limited experience (just hobby cutting of small figurines) is that you cut quite well with abrasive means in stone.

stevevw said:

Because if you did then I could say what about this and that. Then you come back and we work it out as to what is the most reasonable explanation according to the evidence. For example this is one I linked as obvious to see what people say. Mostly its ignore, some say a modern forgery thus acknowledging it looks like machining. But lets see what you say now we are allowing such discussion.

Tell me how this does not look like machining and how it looks like it was made by the orthodox method or pounding, grinding and using a big straight edged copper saw.

THis is from around the Giza pyramid and I linked the video earlier showing it onsite. There are many like this so please don't dismiss it because you think there is not fact to its existence as part of ancient Egypt. As it is and I am not going to go through the whole thing of reciting references.

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If it is not in peer-reviewed journals, but something without context it is of little value.

stevevw said:

View attachment 374526 View attachment 374527

Do you understand or have investigated the difference in the signatures abrasive sawing has to machine cutting. Like the example above. Can a hand saw with abrasion leave such a sharp and fine lip.

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Can it? I think so. Also there is no sense of scale in these pictures.

stevevw said:

If its abrasion then its grinding out the stone and not cutting it sharply.

Its so basic that this is why I question that anyone has actually stopped to carefully look at the images and see what is before their eyes lol. I don't think they have. Otherwise they would not be claiming a copper saw and abrasive grinding because they look nothing like that.

Look heres others which I have linked before with their sources. All from around the pyramids. Tell me how a copper saw at least 4 or 5 mm thick and straight could leave a fine arc edge thats thinner than the thickness of the saw. Let alone the extra stone ground out by the abrasive cutting method.

View attachment 374529 View attachment 374528

View attachment 374531 View attachment 374532

Its not a case of stopping them. Its shooting down the investigation as nothing, as just conspiracy that is the issue. I have had to fight to even have this acknowledged lol.

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Then they keep building their case with good methods and keep trying to get it published, are their rejection rate actually high?

stevevw said:

The tests and experiments I linked were dismissed as nothing that lends support for advanced knowledge and tech. Rather than acknowledge they could be the preliminary evidence that leads to supporting such advanced knowledge.


The determination was already made that this was nothing that lends support. Otherwise it would be acknowledged that what is being claimed could potentially be correct lol. Thus my case is supported.

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This is just some convoluted thinking, either the data supports the hypothesis or not.

stevevw said:

Ok I can see you are more reasonable and open which is good. You do ask basic questions and the fact that we are able to get to a point where we can look at images and be honest with what we see in front of us is a good start as this is step one to acknowledge the observations.

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You mistakenly think that I agree with you on what the images show.

stevevw said:

Yes but when someone says that and they don't provide any explanation or evidence that this is the case. They are more or less fobbing off the issue. Then demanding that I provide peer reviwed science lol. Its an impossible predicament as only one side is having to account for their claims.

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This have to be a misunderstanding, if you claim that it is a machine cut then it is you that have to prove it. I am not an experimental archaeologist, I am perfectly clear that my personal view is nothing else than my personal view.

stevevw said:

Thats ok provided the same rules apply and the pushback honestly acknowledges what we are looking at. Then gives an explanation for their claim with the same level of evidence demanded of me. Then yes this is good.

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No, I give you my personal view. If all you are saying is that they look like machine cuts to you, then I'm ok with that but you seem to imply that your view is supported by the evidence. Then the normal way is to publish it in an appropriate journal and get it into the orbit of the subject matter specialists. That is the arena where the ideas will get vetted and discussed by experts.

stevevw said:

Not sure what you mean.

See you even admit that this is a subjective feeling and belief. You cannot be sure or confident of your own position.

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I don't think you should be confident in your position because I don't think you have provided evidence for it. I'm not confident in my position on archaeological matters, because I normally do medical genetics and statistics. There is more than a small lack of actual statistical tests in what you have presented so far, so it is very difficult to determine how likely or unlikely something is.

stevevw said:

Which to me sort of supports my point that skeptics are not really looking at things and dealing with what is right before their eyes to begin with.

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How does this support your point?

stevevw said:

The resistence is not based on objective facts or science but a feeling and belief. Ironically skeptics accuse those who support the idea of advanced knowledge as having some unfounded belief and no factual evidence. Which shows its all about a persons belief in how they see the evidence.


No ancients are alive form the Old and New Testiment but todays Christians accept their testimony and experiences in the stories they have passed down.

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Yes, but written stories are not testimony without any means to corroborate who wrote them down.

stevevw said:

Yes I think its about their thinking. The way they gained knowledge. This was obtained differently to how material science gains knowledge as a 3rd party measure. The ancients gained their knowledge from direct conscious experiences.

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In contrast to sub- or non-conscious experience? Or non-direct conscious experience?

stevevw said:

Perhaps a shortcut to the same knowledge material science is just getting to know.

This is the big question lol. The important thing is to be open to whatever. That material science is not the sole truth as to knowledge. Thus we all should be open to transcedent knowledge and truths because we actually believe and live that in reality.

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I don't believe I have ever gained any transcendent knowledge or truth.

stevevw said:

On the one hand we have empiricle facts and on the other we have lived reality.

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Lived reality is inherently empirical.

stevevw said:

Do you think our lived experiences, beliefs and reality are also a kind of fact or truth in the world. But just measured in a different way such as qualitatively. Rather than quantatively. Why cannot direct experiences be something real.

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Of course it is, all experiences are real. Whether or not they correspond to something objective varies.

stevevw said:

Yes and I think some have been doing this. Looking at the cultural aspect. The beliefs and stories in more detail to try and learn how they thought. How this related to their practices and lived reality.

I see it a bit like understanding the stories in the bible and how they were lived out in reality. The stories were not just myths but had knowledge that transcends the material sciences. Yet is still real knowledge as it has had a real affect on the world. It influences peoples behaviour.

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Psychology and sociology studies how peoples thoughts and experiences influence their behaviour, these subjects are by now well established scientific fields (not strictly appropriate in this sub-forum though).

stevevw said:

I wasn't just talking about those. But the whole stone softening, melting and weakening topic. There was a paper from a uni presented. Can;t remember if peer reviewed. But that is irrelevant as this was academic level testing from a university. I think referenced by peer reviewed papers. They tested the vitrified surfaces and found unnatural minerals.

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I'm going to need peer-reviewed articles or at least something in academic press at this point.

stevevw said:

Another found unnatural minerals in the facia stones on the pyramid.

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Bob Crowley said:

You may be right, but even the Jerusalem Post identified him as Moslem. Whether they did their own research, or merely quoted others remains to be seen.

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The Jerusalem Post article is correct.

Hero who wrestled gun from terrorist says he’d do it again despite being ‘riddled with bullets’

Ahmed, a Muslim, arrived in Australia in 2006 from Syria. The 44-year-old tobacco shop owner is the father of two daughters aged five and six.

essentialsaltes said:

Hong Kong pro-democracy campaigner and media tycoon Jimmy Lai has been found guilty of colluding with foreign forces under the city's controversial national security law (NSL).

The 78-year-old UK citizen, who has been in jail since December 2020, pleaded not guilty. He faces life in prison and is expected to be sentenced early next year.

Lai used his now-defunct Apple Daily newspaper as part of a wider effort to lobby foreign governments to impose sanctions on Hong Kong and China, the court found.

Lai, one of the fiercest critics of the Chinese state, was a key figure in the pro-democracy protests that engulfed Hong Kong in 2019. Beijing responded to the months-long demonstrations, which sometimes erupted into violent clashes with police, by introducing the NSL.

The law was enacted without consulting the Hong Kong legislature and gave authorities broad powers to charge and jail people they deemed a threat to the city's law and order, or the government's stability.

Lai was accused of violating the NSL for his role in the protests and also through his tabloid Apple Daily, which became a standard bearer for the pro-democracy movement.

Lai's trial came to be widely seen as yet another test of judicial independence for Hong Kong's courts, which have been accused of toeing Beijing's line since 2019, when it tightened its control over the city.

Hong Kong authorities insist the rule of law is intact but critics point to the hundreds of protesters and activists who have been jailed under the NSL - and its nearly 100% conviction rate as of May this year.

[Lai's] journey as a democracy activist began after China brutally crushed pro-democracy protests in Beijing's Tiananmen Square in 1989.

Lai started writing columns criticising the massacre and went on to launch a string of popular pro-democracy publications, including Apple Daily and Next.

See Also (2021):

Hong Kong police raid newspaper offices, arrest editors, executives under security law

Police on Thursday raided the Apple Daily newspaper, known for its support for Hong Kong's democracy movement, and arrested five executives, including three top editors, on suspicion of violating the city's national security law. Authorities also froze the tabloid's assets. The early-morning...

www.christianforums.com

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This is fully expected but so sad. Well, China is totalitarian, so of course anyone who objects in any way to totalitarianism is an enemy of China.

Our heroic Catholic Church has a secret deal with China to protect the interests of Catholics in China. So all is well. I guess.

AI Overview


Yes, according to the Gospels,
Jesus treated the early chapters of Genesis (like Adam, Eve, Noah, the Flood) as real, historical events, using them as factual references for theological and moral teaching, such as defining marriage from "the beginning of creation" (Mark 10:6, quoting Genesis 1:27, 2:24) and referencing Noah's Flood (Matthew 24:37-39). While He treated the figures and events as historically true, the text itself doesn't detail howlong creation took, focusing more on God as the Creator, leaving interpretations of literal timeframes a matter for later theological discussion.
Examples of Jesus referencing Genesis as history:

• Adam and Eve: When discussing divorce, Jesus pointed to the creation of man and woman "from the beginning of creation," directly referencing the Genesis account of Adam and Eve as foundational.
• Noah and the Flood: He described the days of Noah and the global Flood as historical reality, using them as parallels for future judgment.
• Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & Lot:Jesus referred to these patriarchs as actual historical persons, as noted in Matthew 8:11 and Luke 17:28-32.

Interpretation:

• Factual Basis: For many Christians and theologians, Jesus's direct citations confirm that He viewed Genesis as reliable history, not mere myth or poetry.
• Focus on What, Not When: His references often emphasize the truth of the events (God created humanity, a global flood occurred) rather than specifying the durationor mechanism (like the age of the Earth), leaving room for different views on scientific timelines within a belief in Genesis's historical framework.

The Catholic Church also teaches Adam and Eve were real historical people.