New Posts

stevevw · 2025-12-08T23:21:05-0600

partinobodycular said:
Actually, no. I'm among the vast number of people that think that demons are purely metaphorical at best. But as you say, I'm just an outsider looking in so my opinion is worthless. Which is why I referred to the teachings of more mainstream Christian denominations among whom the belief in demons and their presence here on earth is quite prevalent.

If you have a problem with the teaching you'll have to take it up with them. And unless you're claiming some greater authority on the subject it's to them that I'll have to defer.

Ok I get you now. The first thing to say would be that you believe in angels and demons if you think that God put you in such a world. If you don't then whats the problem. Your complaining about something you don't believe. Your acting like its true and you are going to suffer.

partinobodycular said:
So my position holds, what kind of a loving God would place me in a world filled with fallen angels and demons, and then expect me to worship Him for doing so?

The second is if angels and demons are true then your qualifying this from your point of view which is not the same thing and will definitely be misrepresented.

I mean how many versions of angels and demons are there including those besides Christian. If you grant the Christian version then you must grant all the other versions of what angels and demons represent in the world. So which one is true.

This shows that if angels and demons are tru then you are grasping at straws over subjective conceptions of angels and demons and cannot really know which one is a true representation.

I don't think anyone knows. We can have a guess or maybe draw out some truths from the bible or from other beliefs as to what they represent. But I don;t think you have done that.

That would be an effort in itself to go through every version there is and break them down, categorise them, find common themes and what they actually represent. Rather than the misrepresented assumptions that you think Christians mean.

But if you have then thats fair enough. But there would need to be some evidence. Just by the fact that you are not a Christian is one sign that we should be cautious as a non Christian understand this different to a Christian. But even then some Christians disagree. So then the question is which version of Christian meaning are you referring to lol.

Its not that simple.

Another aspect is that by believing those who believe in angels and demons your lending support for the overall truth of angels and demons. It seems there is a natural inclination for humans to believe in gods, the soul and afterlife and angels and demons.

So we could say that the idea of angels and demons may have some truth and the evidence is humans persistent belief and inclination. But as humans we are completely incapable of fully understanding this.

So the concepts we come up with are never a true representation and therefore cannot be relied upon fully. But there may be some aspects we can draw out based on common experiences and beliefs.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-08T23:21:00-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Indiana GOP state senator says he's a no on redistricting after Trump delivers his Thanksgiving execration
Trump's Nov. 27 Truth Social post ‒ one in a series of anti-immigrant comments posted Thursday ‒ referred to Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as the "r-word." Though the word was formerly used in medical contexts, it's now widely regarded as offensive, and disability advocates seek to end its use.

Per Walz' daughter, cretins are shouting the r-word at their family home.

[You may recall that Walz' neurodivergent son cried during the governor's speech, spurring reactions that highlighted the divide between normal human beings and those who strangled their empathy.]

prodromos · 2025-12-08T23:15:19-0600

Apple Sky said:
Yes they are & they float around in the sky doing their job just as God had intended them to do.

Since you seem to have already forgotten that you just implied the moon was the "little buddy" of the sun, how do they float?

Valletta · 2025-12-08T23:14:33-0600

The Somali Welfare Fraud Scandal Is Even Worse Than You Think

The Somali-tied welfare fraud scheme in Minnesota is likely far worse than the American people think, involving “complicit” state government officials and totaling far more stolen money than original early estimates stated, according to Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.Billions of...

www.dailywire.com

stevevw · 2025-12-08T23:05:15-0600

Hans Blaster said:
This thread started with your claim that our "standard" view of human history was flawed because it missed the earlier development of "civilization" (fixed settlements, basically). One branch of evidence brought up fairly early was ancient stone working technology particularly as demonstrated by pre-dynastic Egyptian hard stone vase. These topics are entirely supported or not based on physical evidence behind. Even the related claims of "lost advanced technology" (whether it be stone softening or CNC-like machining) are based on *physical* methods that we either didn't know the ancients had or even we don't have. Again, these are physical technologies, whether we are talking about lathes or anti-gravity lift machines. They are not related to mystical experiences or the like. As such ancient spirituality is *not* relevant to these discussions. There are people who study ancient religion, spirituality, etc., but that is a different topic than what technologies the ancients had. That is why it is not on topic here. Every thread can't be about every thing.

And I explained this several times. I did not begin with the physical sciences. It was more philosophical about how the orthodoxy was flawed. Thats a epistemic issue of philosophy of science and not physical science.

I mentioned that it was a natural extension that looking at specific examples like the vases may help show that there is lost advanced knowledge and tech. We have probably dedicated most of the thread to this. Though there is a large chunk on what exactly is that knowledge and tech which is epistemics. They cannot be seperated when your talking about what the knowledge and tech represents as far as the epistemics. How they came to know.

But all along I was saying that we can go over specific examples forever and this won't really settle whether there was advanced tech and knowledge. I have shown several examples that support lost advanced knowledge and its been rejected.

So therefore we come back to the actual possibility in the first place of whether such alternative and advanced knowledge is possible and how knowledge can be arrived at through other means besides material reductionist science.

Hans Blaster said:
No, 'mind over matter' is motivational speaker pablum and not scientific.

See this is where we disagree. We have evidence of mind over matter. Is that not science. I mean we live that just about every day.

Hans Blaster said:
I know how desperately you want to overthrow "scientific materialism"

Material science describes a certain aspect of reality. I never said that it is unnecessary or needs to be eliminated. Just the belief that its the ontological truth for everything.

Hans Blaster said:
and the operational paradigm of science (methodological naturalism), but this just isn't the place.

That you call it an operational paradigm shows that its but one paradigm in how we see the world, nature and reality. Therefore its the very place to discuss these other paradigms if we are to truely work out what is knowledge.

Hans Blaster said:
Discussions of the fundamental nature of reality are not on topic for a thread on ancient human civilization.

Isn't it ironic. The one and only paradigm that the ancients existed in is being disregarded and thus leaving just one option but methological naturalism and materialism by extension when being used to dismiss the alternative knowledge.

You have more or less done exactly what I am pointing out is the problem with material science being used this way. That is dismiss all other ways of knowing in a thread that is seeking to understand those alternative ways and demand only one way of knowing. Thus begging the question.

Hans Blaster said:
Even if we accepted that claim what would it get you? That we have souls? I don't see how that changes early civilization or stone working technology.

No I am thinking more fundementally. That people stop trying to force their epistemic and metaphysical beliefs on others. Admit that there is a good possibility that there is this alternative knowledge such as belief, souls and spirituality or consciousness beyond brain.

Or at least admit that they have no way of disproving it and be open to the possibility. INstead of dismissing this out of hand.l Thats the honest approach anyway without the preconscieved beliefs in pushing material naturalism over all else.

This would completely change the thread to something more reasonable.

Hans Blaster said:
I would posit that I have at least as much direct experience with nature (and far more knowledge of reality) than even the common folk of Egypt.

The problem is and your not getting this is that its not just about contact or observational science. Its actually experiential and direct which requires the openness to what is beyond the material to even enter that space. If you could call it space.

You disbelieve so you already have an epistemic and ontological blinker and wall to even enter that domain.

Hans Blaster said:
We must remember the fundamental reality of ancient Egypt (pre-dynastic, 4th dynasty, etc.): It was an urban civilization with extensive agriculture. The whole of the civilization was a bunch of cities and farms squeezed along the Nile River by the vast extents of inhospitable desert. The rulers, priests, stone artisans, and pyramid architects were city dwellers. That is no different that what I grew up in -- surrounded by farms with the occasional bit of woods and nearby cities. If anything I have *more* and more varied access to nature than the typical Egyptian. As for experience with reality, I've seen the rings of Saturn and the organelles of paramecia with my own eyes and no Egyptian (or any ancient person) knew they even existed.

Except and this is not just for the Egyptians. But the entire paradigm and worldview that the ancients were immersed in was transcedent. It was either through deep beliefs in transcedent aspects or spirits or gods. Or some sort of meditation. mind states that transcedended the material world.

This is what I mean by material science looking from the outside in. The ancients having an experiential immersion in nature and reality became part of what scientists today are looking at from the outside.

They actually experienced or came closer to the actual nature naturalism is trying to understand. Its more a experience or mind state that allows the knowledge rather than intelligence building through the acciquistion of knowledge.

Reminder. This is spectualtion. It is my attempt to explain how the ancient mindset and knowledge was that brought them this advanced understanding. The physical out of place examples are the results. But its not just physical.

Hans Blaster said:
What even is "alternative knowledge". Most of the times I see that phrase it is from people who just don't want to deal with reality.

Yes this is the atheistic and materialistic view of alternative knowledge. Because the only true knowledge is material ie matter, particles, forces and fields. There is nothing else and even the alternative knowledge is the byproduct of the material.

Hans Blaster said:
I'm going to give you grace and assume that you are talking about these more speculative theories that your favorite YT

What is YT lol.

Hans Blaster said:
channels propose (about ancient megalith builders, advanced machining of vases, etc.) are ONLY going to be demonstrated with actual physical evidence, not any of these mind/behavior things.

Yes those specific investigators mainly look at the physical evidence of out of place stuff. But that also includes maths and geometry and other ideas about transcedent beliefs that were associated with some of those practices. You cannot seperate them out as this is part of how they claim to have achieved their knowledge.

Hans Blaster said:
You're not going to get away with rejecting methodological naturalism in the *physical science* section. If that's what you mean by "alternative knowledge" then you are on the wrong sub-forum.

No I am not rejecting methodological naturalism but its abuse. Its use to snuff out alternative knowledge. Thats when it becomes a belief and not science.

Hans Blaster said:
It certainly is, but the things you just wrote are a literal rejection of science.

Not thats you belief. Your assumption.

Hans Blaster said:
Good because simulation theory is dumb and not part of science. It is the kind of nonsense whipped up by rich tech bros while high.

The idea may be spectualtive but the basis is solid science.

Michie · 2025-12-08T23:03:44-0600

Carrie Gress argues the movement functions as a secular megachurch targeting women with false promises

An author of 11 books, including an upcoming title on feminism, says the movement has evolved into a kind of secular "megachurch" with its own doctrines, rituals and moral code — one that she argues now serves as a substitute for faith, family and traditional Christian virtue.

“Feminism actually is not a subset of Christianity. It's actually a rival to Christianity," Carrie Gress, a fellow at the Institute for Human Ecology at Catholic University of America, told Fox News Digital in a recent interview.

Gress is the author of the forthcoming book "Something Wicked: Why Feminism Can’t Be Fused With Christianity," which she says examines how feminism has "quietly captured the minds and hearts of women by mimicking aspects of Christianity. Through its own ‘commandments,’ ‘virtues,’ ‘evangelization,’ and even ‘a sacrament,’ feminism has become an exceedingly powerful megachurch."

“In many respects, it can actually be seen as a megachurch," Gress told Fox News Digital. "It has taken on so many of the aspects of Christianity."

Continued below.

Scholar warns feminism has become a ‘megachurch’ replacing faith, family and Christian virtue

A Catholic author argued feminism functions as secular "megachurch" rivaling Christianity in a new book examining the movement's religious-like structure and doctrines.

www.foxnews.com

Ivan Hlavanda · 2025-12-08T23:00:40-0600

I know there are Christians out there that do not hold the view the first 11 chapters of Genesis are literal history, Adam was not literal, God did not create everything in 6 days ets...because the science disproves this.

If you do not believe in literal Adam, you then cannot believe in literal 2nd Adam, Jesus Christ the Saviour. Because if Adam did not exist, then the fall did not happen and there is no need for a Saviour.

You cannot believe in a metaphorical Adam and then believe in literal resurrection of Christ, the second Adam who came to fix what the first Adam broke. You also have problem explaining Romans 5:12-21

P.S. I know the view of metaphorical Adam is held by very few, but it has been bothering me deeply that people believe this, and I am studying Romans 5 and this is on my heart.

A2SG · 2025-12-08T22:59:32-0600

GoldenBoy89 said:
Say… I think I’m starting to get the appeal with this guy.

What other prominent right wingers can we get him to go after like this?

Pretty much anyone who gives him even the slightest hint of criticism seems to be enough.

-- A2SG, unless they totally recant and swear undying fealty, like a certain VP.....

Servus · 2025-12-08T22:59:16-0600

Florida Man strikes again.

Apple Sky · 2025-12-08T22:58:47-0600

Noah's Flood

pastorwaris · 2025-12-08T22:52:13-0600

LoricaLady said:
I have prayed over each area mentioned in your post. It was long, but so worthwhile.

May you be blessed and encouraged and protected in the work you’re doing.

Thank you so much and May the mighty hand of our Heavenly Father be upon you and your family always!

Mark Quayle · 2025-12-08T22:01:33-0600

SuperCow said:
I am not disputing that within our reality, God is the cause of everything. What I am saying is that if God caused all, then having omniscience automatically precludes true choice for anything that is caused, human or otherwise. My choice is an illusion. God created me a certain way, in an environment unique to me, knowing how I would respond and every choice that I would ever make. Therefore, with that logic, Adam and Eve had no choice but to sin; the serpent had no choice but to deceive, and man had no choice but to (for the most part) reject God, because of how they were created, how they were taught, and their life experiences.

The "impossible to lie" quote was a hyperbole to show how the raw meaning of the word itself (omnipotence or omniscience) is technically an oxymoron.

As far as translated scriptures go, certain things obviously need to be interpreted, otherwise raw readings look like contradictions.

Genesis 6:6,7 & 1 Samuel 15:11,35 - God regrets his own actions. But in the same chapter in Samuel (1 Samuel 15:29) which you quoted, God is not a man that he should have regret. (ESV) or that he should repent (KJV) or change his mind (NIV). So obviously there is some kind of interpretation or translation issue. But the fact remains that God anointed three different individuals to be king over Israel, and only one remained faithful. (Saul & David through Samuel, and Jeroboam through Ahijah) Not a great record if you are omniscient or know ahead of time what your chosen appointees will do. In fact, Jeroboam almost immediately rebelled and not a single king of Israel from that point were faithful. (except partially Jehu)

I'm not suggesting that God doesn't know or see or have some kind of supernatural ability to see the future. I just don't follow the logic that God doesn't have a choice to decide what to foresee, in order to prevent his creation from being a mere simulation.

If God caused everything and knows everything, then I have no will, period. If it is self-contradictory to say that God can sin (which I agree with), then he can't possibly have pre-conceived that Adam and Eve and the serpent and Satan would sin, because then, as you say, God would be sinning against himself through Adam and Eve, and is furthermore responsible for everything Satan would do.

This sentence is self-contradictory. Your choices are not your own if they are caused by someone else.

You are missing the point. Whatever reason I may have to choose what I have chosen to do is caused by God, as you say, whether that is by influencing my brain waves now, or by just allowing it to develop through history from some initial quantum wave of creation. The sticking point is whether at the point of creation God already knew that I would exist and what I would do thousands or billions of years later. (Depending on whether you are a young earth or old earth creationist) And omniscience means God did know, and therefore my choices are not mine after all.

But I didn't say that or believe that. You don't maybe see it that way, but that is your position. I believe that God can create a creature with free choice, that we all have free choice, and God wants us to have free choice. (the word choice here being synonymous with will) I also believe that despite our free choice, prophecies can still exist, because despite what we do in our lives, it will not affect prophecy or God's will, so peering into our choices is not relevant. And if our actions did or was going to affect God's will, then God would intervene as he did in so many parts of the Bible.

Furthermore, God taking an initiative to help a single individual in distress who prays for help will also not generally affect prophecy. So individually God can guide us, and on a macro scale he can fulfill his prophecies without contradiction.

It's going to take too long to continue to debate each point if in the end all we do is disagree. Can you please explain how it is possible for anything (besides God himself) to happen that is not caused to happen? You keep coming up with this idea that if I am caused to do something that I could not have chosen it. I'm saying that I could not have chosen without being caused to choose. Choices don't happen in a vacuum. You wanted what you chose. You wanted what you chose because something —myriad causes, actually— resulted in you wanting what you wanted. You didn't invent fact on your own.

What's curious to me is that, given a different context, many who argue for freewill are more than happy with the notion of 'chains-of-causation'. But as soon as we say that God is at the beginning of all the chains, all the sudden we get cries of "foul"! Why? Really, why? You can't tell me the reasons why you want what you want. You may tell me a reason, but when I ask for the explanation for what caused that reason, you have to come up with something else, and so on. You won't admit to God being at the head of all causation. You want something to happen out of thin air, which is, sorry, illogical. Nothing comes from nothing.

I just read your post again. If I am misrepresenting you and you do agree that God is omniscient and omnipotent, say so. Your conclusion makes sense, if you agree with that: Free will, (as defined by the notion that it is uncaused), is a fiction.

Michie · 2025-12-08T21:46:48-0600

Christworshiper said:
Does anyone know if this the first time a U.S. President recognized this holy day?

Nope.

Richard T · 2025-12-08T21:41:35-0600

mindlight said:
Yes both Putin and Trump agree on breaking up the EU. There is an opportunistic streak in both leaders here. Putin has a territorial divide and conquer ambition and Trump wants the greater leverage of trading with smaller nation states rather than Europe as a block, also he rightly sees a problem in the wokist, godless cultures of European elites and in the basic strategic foolishness that led to an overdependence on Russian raw materials and Chinese trade. We should neither be naive about Americas intent here nor make a big thing of opposing it. Rather they can be helpful allies in driving much needed reforms before it is too late for us.

Trump basically believes that the old Christian European and American models worked better than the multikulti ones employed today in Europe. In part that is an unwelcome recall of the memory of a different kind of Europe where racism held sway. But so also it is a commentary on current realities like the breakdowns of: cultural unity, true spirituality and religion. The current weakness of Europe on the world stage is spiritual rather than to do with our wealth or even military power which remains substantial albeit in need of an overhaul. Recovering our self-confidence is not about reasserting white imperial domination, that is gone forever. It is rather about finding a new Christian identity that can work with a different kind of world where we longer dominate but must compete both to survive and also to promote the values many of us have forgotten, or no longer care for.

Vanellus said:
Supporting jumped up nobody Tommy Robinson maybe? One has to wonder whether Putin really has something on Trump.

Kremlin hails Trump’s national security strategy as aligned with Russia’s vision

If so, I do hope it comes to light earlier rather than later.

Michie · 2025-12-08T21:34:46-0600

Bishop Michael Duca has granted a dispensation from Sunday Mass attendance for immigrants fearing deportation in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, the fourth U.S. diocese to do so.

News of the dispensation comes amid heightened presence of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers in Louisiana as part of the Trump administration’s “Swamp Sweep,” which has been reported to include the deployment of 250 Border Patrol agents to the region and plans to arrest 5,000 individuals across Louisiana and Misssissipi.

“With the recent publicized arrival of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers into south Louisiana and greater Baton Rouge, and since many of the faithful genuinely fear immigration enforcement actions, thereby making it untenable for them to attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation, I hereby grant a dispensation from the obligation to attend Mass for those Catholics rightfully afraid to participate in Mass because of their fear,” Duca said “with a heavy heart” in a pastoral letterdated Dec. 4.

The Baton Rouge bishop said the dispensation would remain “until the individual Catholic determines it is safe to attend Mass again” or until the dispensation is revoked.

Continued below.

Baton Rouge Diocese announces Sunday Mass dispensation for immigrants

Bishop Michael Duca granted a dispensation from Sunday Mass for immigrants fearing deportation in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, the fourth U.S. diocese to do so.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

Servus · 2025-12-08T21:26:15-0600

Georgia Man is giving Florida Man some competition.

Michie · 2025-12-08T21:25:08-0600

For the past two years — while the war in Gaza has been taking place — all Christmas celebrations have been canceled in Bethlehem, the town where Jesus was born. However after the recent ceasefire, the famous town decided to have its Christmas celebrations return, starting with the lighting of the giant Christmas tree in front of the historic Church of the Nativity on Dec. 6.

“It’s been a bad two years of silence; no Christmas, no jobs, no work,” Bethlehem Mayor Maher Canawati said in an interview with the BBC. “We’re all living here from tourism, and tourism was down to zero.”

He added: “Some may say it’s not appropriate and others say it’s appropriate, but deep inside my heart, I felt that this was the right thing to do because Christmas should never be stopped or canceled. This is the light of hope for us.”

Beit Jala and Beit Sahour, two neighboring towns, will also be having Christmas tree lightings in the coming days. Hotels are also receiving more bookings from tourists as well as Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Continued below.

Bethlehem lights Christmas tree again while conflict still echoes nearby

The town of Bethlehem decided to have its Christmas celebrations return, starting with the lighting of the giant Christmas tree in front of the Church of the Nativity on Dec. 6.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

DamianWarS · 2025-12-08T21:18:22-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
No where in the entire Bible does it say God's laws written in the heart are a different law of God or the Law of Christ as if there is dichotomy between God and Christ and their laws. If there is than one automatically disqualifies themselves because the Scriptures say God's saints keep the commandments of God Rev14:12 and only those are reconciled back to God Rev22:14 those outside the comamndment breakers quoting directly from the Ten Commandments.

In Jesus own teachings He said when we lay aside the commandment of God and quoted directly from the Ten Commandments ones heart is far from Him, Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 because they have rejected the law of God and has made one an enmity to God Rom8:7-8. No wonder Jesus said when we do this it makes the word of God of no effect, because if we aren't believing God's Words- whose words are we replacing them with. Jesus did not say the Ten Comamndment ended not once nor did Paul. The definition of how to love God Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3 , did not get replaced by mans feelings. Love fulfills the law because when we love Jesus we keep His commandments John14:15 Exo20:6 1John5:3 and want to obey Him and allow Him to define His own Laws that He did plainly and claimed as His Exo20:6,. But believe as you wish, we will all have to be accountable for our teachings Mat5:19 and He will sort this out soon enough. Its time for me to move on but I wish you well .

I agree there’s no dichotomy between God and Christ. That’s exactly why the New Testament consistently speaks of one law under the New Covenant, the law of Christ written by the Spirit, not the Sinai covenant written on stone. The issue is not “God vs. Christ,” but old covenant vs. new covenant, which Hebrews, Paul, and Jesus all address.

Hebrews 8:13 explicitly says the covenant defined by the Ten Commandments (Deut 4:13) is obsolete and passing away. That doesn’t contradict God; it’s the covenant change God Himself promised. The NT never says the Sinai treaty becomes the New Covenant law. It affirms God’s righteousness, not the permanence of the stone-written covenant document.

Revelation 14:12 and 22:14 don’t quote the Ten Commandments; John uses “commandments of God” the same way he defines them elsewhere (1 John 3:23)—faith in Christ and love for one another. That’s the New Covenant shape of obedience, not a reinstallation of Sinai. And nothing in Mark 7 or Matthew 15 says the 10 continue as the covenant document; Jesus is condemning human tradition, not describing covenant structure.

Saying that Christians are not under the Sinai covenant is not “laying aside God’s commandments.” The NT repeatedly says believers obey Christ, walk by the Spirit, and fulfill the law through love (Rom 13:8–10; Gal 5:14). That is not rejecting God, it is exactly what the New Covenant teaches.

I respect that you’re ready to move on, so I’ll leave it here too. But the distinction I’m making comes directly from Scripture: the old covenant engraved on stone has ended (Heb 8; 2 Cor 3), and the New Covenant law is written by the Spirit, not defined by the Sinai tablets.

Dale · 2025-12-08T21:09:42-0600

Always in His Presence said:
Peter carried a sword -

Pretty much everyone has the ability to carry - it is not uncommon to see people exercising their rights daily. It's a great place to live for a number of reasons - but lots of people carry - you are incorrect in your assumption. There are some affluent area's but the vast majority is middle income. Just like me.

In Chicago perhaps? - oh, wait - they have more guns - just not legal.

Got proof for such a statement?

I'm proof positive - Grew up in NY - I've carried concealed since 1981, college grad, Married to a beautiful woman (college grad) who carries occasionally - I have six children with the exception of one - we all have the ability to carry - (no Hunters).

I am fortunate to live here. Low Taxes - strong family values - strong conservative area - four Christian Universities - great schools where they still pray with the kids. And freedom to carry openly.

Sure there are some who do not carry - but I'd suspect they are in the minority.

When Fantine commented that “Fewer educated people own guns” you asked, “Got proof for such a statement?”

I think I am quoting the same source that Fantine used, but here it is.

<< Overall, about three-in-ten adults with a high school diploma or less (31%) and 34% of those with some college education say they own a gun; a quarter of those with a bachelor’s degree or more say the same. Among whites, about four-in-ten of those with a high school diploma or less (40%) or with some college (42%) are gun owners, compared with roughly a quarter of white college graduates (26%). >>

To summarize:

Adults with High School Diploma
31% own a gun

Adults with some College
34% own a gun

...with Bachelor’s Degree or more
25% own a gun

Pew Research gives further statistics but I will stop here for simplicity.

Source:
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

peter2 · 2025-12-08T21:04:25-0600

eleos1954 said:
Mary's faith was deep, but her human perspective struggled with the paradox of the Messiah's suffering

Actually, i understand what you say, and would fully agree, had you tell this about one of his male disciples.
But Mary is a female person, with a female sensitivity, then.
i mean : she knows how men pretend to feel no pain at the very moment of their sufferings. It's their conception of virility.
Indeed, it sounds like Jesus' sorrows on the cross also was an expression of all the pains men hide to look virile. About the meditative Mary, i doubt a little she was duped by these pretendings of men.

What's more, she also was a mother : i assume she had good reasons to worry for the 12 year old Jesus' sake when they looked for him. She knew danger does exist ; Didn't they have to flee to Egypt to escape massacre ? If non vulnerable, would they have had to ?

As believer of Gabriel' speech, finally though, she believed his reign was supposed to happen for ever. This is more where i suppose lies a paradox

eleos1954 said:
the paradox of the Messiah's suffering

Indeed,
She could have wondered of what need is death (or suffering, yes..) for an everlasting reign ?

Basil the Great · 2025-12-08T21:01:30-0600

2PhiloVoid said:
And you would be extremely wrong to think that philosophy is, in whole, mutually exclusive to Christian theology.

You might want to keep in mind that, actually, the undertaking of biblical systematic theology REQUIRES the application of some points of the wide (very, very wide) field of Philosophy.

You would be right to say that I don't hold to Sola Scriptura, and I'd go on record to in fact say that in order to be saved, no one needs to. God is bigger than the rag tag collection of letters and books we call the New Testament, after all, and I'll continue to take my measures for what constitutes 'good theology' from many Christian scholars (and ministers) rather than ................... only one local minister.

And in saying all of the above, I'll continue on in my viewpoint and do so with the same outlook and attitude of Copernicus who said, and I quote, "There may be babblers, wholly ignorant of mathematics, who dare to condemn my hypothesis, upon the authority of some part of the Bible twisted to suit their purpose. I value them not, and scorn their unfounded judgment.”

I beg to differ on this point. How can anyone have "sound theology" by believing in a social bubble, with little or no education in the area of Hermeneutics, Biblical Exegesis, and Church History??? ............ by special pleading about one's special, personal revelations or by the special abilities of one's singular local minister? I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously. I never said salvation is exactly congruent with "how well" we know the Scriptures. It's also not exactly congruent with a set of presuppositions attuned solely and only to, shall we say, a more Calvinistic leaning.

And neither is God impressed with anyone's SPIRITUAL ZEAL that persists without KNOWLEDGE.

Well then, with that, have a Merry Christmas!

Indeed, and as Tiny Tim observed, God bless us, ereryone!

ARBITER01 · 2025-12-08T20:53:26-0600

Dikaioumenoi said:
1 John 5:1a reads:

πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστὶν ὁ Χριστός, ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται
("Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God")

A few grammatical observations:

First, ὁ πιστεύων is a present active participle functioning substantively: "the one who is believing." The participle presents the subject, and describes a present, ongoing activity rather than a completed act of faith.

Second, γεγέννηται, the main verb of the clause, is a perfect passive indicative: "has been begotten" or "has been born [of God]." The perfect tense is more than just a "past" tense. Its aspectual function specifically points to a completed action in the past whose effects continue into the present.

When the two forms are set in relation to each other, especially with the present participle functioning substantively -- that is, as the subject of the main verb -- the natural sense is that the person who now believes does so as one who has already been born of God. The grammar, therefore, suggests a logical ordering in which the new birth precedes the act of believing.

This does not, of course, deny the simultaneous experience of these realities in human perception, but grammatically the text places regeneration as the root (the logical grounds) and believing as its fruit.

Hmmmm,..... interesting.

Let's see what other sections of scripture say,....

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;" that is, the word of faith, which we proclaim:
Rom 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We always compare scripture with scripture to get the proper understanding, we never cherry pick one verse out and then try to build our theology around it with Greek tenses.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-12-08T20:51:35-0600

Hentenza said:
The writings of Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. In other words, the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Here are her writings:

Reception of Mark of the Beast Future—The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false sabbath in the place of the true, are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. The mark of the beast is the papal sabbath, which has been accepted by the world in the place of the day of God’s appointment. Ev 234.1
No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast. Ev 234.2
With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Manuscript 51, 1899. Ev 235.1
When Seal of God Is Refused—If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls “My holy day,” you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.—The Review and Herald, July 13, 1897. Ev 235.2
As a Result of Disregard of Light—God has given men the Sabbath as a sign between Him and them, as a test of their loyalty. Those who, after the light regarding God’s law comes to them, continue to disobey and exalt human laws above the law of God in the great crisis before us will receive the mark of the beast.—Letter 98, 1900. Ev 235.3
Caution in Presenting the Sunday Question—[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted this spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation.—Letter 55, 1886. Ev 235.4
Let the Truth Do the Cutting—Satan’s efforts against the advocates of the truth will wax more bitter and determined to the very close of time. As in Christ’s day the chief priests and rulers stirred up the people against Him, so today the religious leaders will excite bitterness and prejudice against the truth for this time. The people will be led to acts of violence and opposition which they would never have thought of had they not been imbued with the animosity of professed Christians against the truth. Ev 236.1
And what course shall the advocates of truth pursue? They have the unchangeable, eternal Word of God, and they should reveal the fact that they have the truth as it is in Jesus. Their words must not be rugged and sharp. In their presentation of truth they must manifest the love and meekness and gentleness of Christ. Let the truth do the cutting; the Word of God is as a sharp, two-edged sword, and will cut its way to the heart. Those who know that they have the truth should not, by the use of harsh and severe expressions, give Satan one chance to misinterpret their spirit.—The Review and Herald, October 14, 1902. Ev 236.2
A Call to Enlighten the Masses—I have been shown that Satan is stealing a march upon us. The law of God, through the agency of Satan, is to be made void. In our land of boasted freedom, religious liberty will come to an end. The contest will be decided over the Sabbath question, which will agitate the whole world. Ev 236.3
Our time for work is limited, and God calls us as ministers and people to be minutemen. Teachers as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves must come to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty. There are many who do not understand the prophecies relating to these days, and they must be enlightened.—Letter 1, 1875. Ev 237.1

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Is Ellen White correct? Are those that worship our Lord on Sunday doomed to receive the mark of the beast?

It is truly exhausting to hear insistent claims across denominations that observing the Jewish Sabbath remains a salvation issue. Respecting the conviction of others, my soul finds peace not in a day, but in every day alike, the finality of the New Covenant established by Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This observance is lifted by the truth that Christ is the culmination of the Law for righteousness (Romans 10:4), rendering this ordinance fulfiled in Him. Scripture clearly states that such days are a shadow but the substance is of Christ and in Him, we find our eternal rest. Let those who observe the Sabbath observe it for God and let those who observe it everyday, likewise for God.
Blessings

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-08T20:41:48-0600

martinlb said:
My sigh was over receiving what felt like reactive responses, with no evidence of any interest or curiosity.

Moving on from that, I don't understand the reason for your reference to the great commission? What were you saying with that? I'm asking out of wanting to understand; it's not a challenge.

And I certainly agree with the difficulty of changing tradition ... whether it's helpful and productive or not. I believe the gospels pretty much tell us that's true.

You said something about old English being a stumbling block when reaching out to people. I interpreted it as you wanted to fulfill the Great Commission, as some do. Only problem is that the Great Commission has been achieved, by the Apostolic Church, as the gospel has already reached the ends of the earth. Moreover, the foundational structure of the Church has already been laid. So anything you want to change there, you have to first be ordained a priest from someone who has been ordained by the Apostolic Succession.

Anything else is just witnessing, and you’re free to use whatever language and translations you wish.

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