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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

How much of your income are you willing to have taken for taxpayer funded healthcare.

Nope. You already know what must be done. If you're overweight, smoke, use illegal drugs, regularly eat fast food then it's easy -- stop living those unhealthy lifestyles. For instance, why should everyone pay for your insulin shots because you will not do some pushups, or at least some push-aways instead of super-sizing that meal. Is it just to require everyone (government) to pay for your care if your Illnesses are caused solely by your bad behaviors?
Michelle Obama tried to encourage healthy eating for school children, but the GOP opposed it. The GOP tends to encourage smoking and oppose any and all attempts to encourage healthy lifestyles. It's GOP policy that you oppose here.
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Draw means to convert, save
It means to draw, to appeal to, to coax, to prompt, to inform, to grace, to call, to knock on our door. And then, as we respond, we draw near to Him, and the nearer we draw to Him, the nearer yet He draws to us. That's the whole point of our faith; that's man's purpose, that's man's state of justice, his wholeness, his holiness, his complete and uncompromised happiness, to be near to God and to remain there in this life, and then be there eternally as this union is fully consummated in the next.
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Gibbons Decline & Fall & Christianity

Let's discuss the many translation and versions of the Bible put out by the Catholic Church, and the priests and monks who copied and preserved and preached the Word of God over the centuries.
Let's discuss that in the topic Censorship? Not here, thank you.
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The "Church Fathers" Scriptural or Not

CHAP. XIX.—PRAISE OF THE MARTYR POLYCARP.


This, then, is the account of the blessed Polycarp, who, being the twelfth that was martyred in Smyrna (reckoning those also of Philadelphia), yet occupies a place of his own in the memory of all men, insomuch that he is everywhere spoken of by the heathen themselves. He was not merely an illustrious teacher, but also a pre-eminent martyr, whose martyrdom all desire to imitate, as having been altogether consistent with the Gospel of Christ. For, having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, he now, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world.

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., “The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna,” in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 43.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul expected to receive his crown of immortality at Christ’s appearing, not at death. Was this Polycarp greater than the apostle Paul? Or perhaps those who have stated such regarding Polycarp consider that they know what really happens at death, better than Paul did.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. …………………………
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ………………….
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ………………….
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to holy scripture, the dead do not praise or glorify God.

Psa 30:1 A Psalm and Song at the dedication of the house of David. I will extol thee, O LORD; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me. 2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. 4 Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness. 5 For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. 6 And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved. 7 LORD, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled. 8 I cried to thee, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication. 9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth? 10 Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be thou my helper. 11 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; 12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Psa 88:1 A Song or Psalm for the sons of Korah, to the chief Musician upon Mahalath Leannoth, Maschil of Heman the Ezrahite. O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee: 2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry; 3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave. 4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength: 5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. 6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. 7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah. 8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth. 9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee. 10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. 11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? 12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? 13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee. 14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me? 15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted. 16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off. 17 They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together. 18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.

Psa 115:1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake. 2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? 3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. 5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them. 9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 10 O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 12 The LORD hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron. 13 He will bless them that fear the LORD, both small and great. 14 The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. 15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth. 16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. 17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. 18 But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
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Censorship?

Oops

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Many Christians unknowingly idolize the Bible, turning it into a false god by placing its authority above the Holy Spirit. Or simply from spiritual blindness.
Oops

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All authentic Christians uphold the holy scriptures as the standard of truth all other testimonies are to be judged by. The scriptures themselves claim to be "given by inspiration of God". They are therefore a standard which should not be contradicted. But to the contrary as the above God inspired scriptures state, they are -

"profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

All new professed revelations from God or the Holy Spirit, should then of course be compared to this standard for authenticity. If it contradicts the plain testimony of that already given by inspiration of God, the Holy Spirit, it is to be rejected.
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Kimmel is Back

I'm not a fan of any of those, but the things they said about celebrities keeping their political opinions to themselves and in the voting booth is right.
I'm trying to think of a modern day version lol and I can't. Well actually I think there are too many now as just about every celeb is doing it that its almost morally wrong not to do it lol. Your not Woke or PC enough and you must virtue signal to be relevant and worthy in the eyes of society.

We have seen the fall of several celebs due to getting too political. Snow White and all the carry on is a good example I think lol. Emma and Harry Potter and J K Rowling is another. How politics destroys good entertainment.
Not sure what you mean by saying not "forcing".....that's exactly what the Left leaning and their celebrities do all the time, so if it's good for them to do, there should be no issue with the opposite side doing so or atleast encouraging, since that would be just following the precedent the Left have laid.
Yes I agree. People are forcing an ideology onto others when they stood on the idea that everyone should be able to express their beliefs and views. They reneged on the contract. They are not practicing what they preached.

But I don't think the answer is that if one group is forcing their ideology onto others that others then force theirs back.

I think the idea that ideologies must be forced is itself the problem. It use to be that society allowed and accepted that there were groups who had different ideas and beliefs. But each would stay to themselves and create their own little world and associated with those who were like minded.

But then the ideologues that created this multi ideology world have reneged and now want to force one ideology over others.

But the best way to defeat any ideology is to use truth and reality. This belongs to no one but is just truth and reality or whatever you want to call it. The key is it is not a human ideological determinatio. But an independent truth of reality.

And sometimes that truth and reality is the truth and reality that no one should force anyone to go against their own beliefs or conscience. Which ironically is the same truth and reality we have come to know all along and what made us a free society in the first place. Its loving your neighbour and treating them how you want to be treated. Gods second greatest commandment.
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The 2025 Government Shutdown Thread

The key is not firings. The key is to label the largest number possible as non-essential and THEN not bring them back, as has been done in the past. During a shutdown, the government always does with less.
There seems to be some confusion that non-essential means not necessary. Office managers, for instance, are necessary but non-essential meaning no lives will be lost, even if the office becomes dysfunctional. The people who take care of the tourist areas in national parks are necessary, but non-essential. The ones that maintain warehouses are necessary, but non-essential.
The government is NEVER forced to hire back everyone.
They aren't forced to hire everyone back because they weren't fired in the first place - they are under contract. They aren't even laid off, just furloughed. Contractors and appointees are a separate matter.

You may be thinking of the air traffic controllers who were fired for striking, not because Congress didn't fund their salaries.
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10/7/23 Anniversary Hamas Attacked Israel

"On October 7, 2023, the people of Israel endured their darkest day since the Holocaust. In a coordinated attack, Hamas terrorists crossed into southern Israel, murdering 1,200 civilians, abducting more than 250 hostages, and committing atrocities too horrific to fully describe.
For Christians, this day should never fade into distant memory. Just as September 11 became a defining moment for America, October 7 has become a watershed moment for Israel. It was not only Israel's tragedy but ours as well, since more than forty Americans were killed that day. Their blood was shed alongside their Israeli brothers and sisters." - CBN News.


Do you support Israel or Palestine's hamas?

US Citizens detained for hours during massive immigration raid that empties Chicago apartment building in the middle of the night

I live next door to immigrants. They say they are engineers and fly an American flag. Is that good enough or should I ring their bell and check their papers. What then, sell my house?

Could you imagine such a utopia? Citizens informing on their neighbors? Hopefully we will reach this point before it's too late! We must defend freedom at all costs!
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VIDEO: Sen. Kennedy slams Dems' shutdown demands: 'We'll give $1.5T when donkeys fly'

"The number one goal in sentencing should be to protect society." Agreed.

Pardoned J6 Defendants Now Accused of Other Crimes​

Matthew Huttle fatally shot by a sheriff's deputy during a traffic stop on Sunday.
Daniel Ball was rearrested on federal firearm charges while still in custody
David Daniel arrest on charges of possession of child pornography, sexual exploitation, and trafficking of child pornography.
Andrew Taake now wanted in Texas for a 2016 charge of online solicitation of a minor
Considering that none of the crimes mentioned are even close to what happened during the January 6 riot, I don't see the connection.

If you pick enough people that have a penchant for, let's say antisocial behaviour, a certain number of them will offend in the following time.

I don't see why some people were released while there were still outstanding warrants, though.
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Another liberal judge injects her politics into law...

We should be more careful assigning labels to judges without at least looking at their record. This judge has had one notable case overturned on appeal. You will see she took the side of the policeman, and ruled against the protester that was blinded by rubber bullets. The appeals court did not. She likely would have been backed by the Supreme Court, but the case was settled fro a million dollars by the city of Salem.

Her background includes prosecuting narcotics and trafficking cases, serving to help Kenneth Starr in the case against President Clinton, she even questioned Monica Lewinsky personally. She seems to be a first class judge, the kind you would want on any case. After her background working for Starr, was disqualifying her from moving up, she registered as a GOP. She was appointed by Bush as a US attorney, then later by Trump for the U.S. Federal District court. Source: Karin Immergut - Wikipedia

"A jury in October 2022 unanimously found that a Salem police officer was liable for McCrae’s permanent vision loss when he fired rubber bullets while trying to disrupt a downtown demonstration. But U.S. District Judge Karin Immergut six months later dropped the lawsuit after ruling that the officer had no way of knowing he violated the protester’s rights when he shot her with rubber bullets, a legal principle known as qualified immunity.
Now, three judges in the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals have reversed Immergut’s ruling and restored the jury verdict."

Source: Protester wins appeal, regains $1 million payout for Salem officer’s excessive force - Salem Reporter

But.. but.. but . she is not supporting President Trump today. She is a RINO!
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Without the massacre of 7 Oct, we would not even be discussing this here. Hamas has brought its own population into this situation with the war. Israel has allowed humanitarian aid to be delivered to Gaza throughout the war. Otherwise, there would be no inhabitants left in the Gaza Strip. And what has prevented the delivery of humanitarian aid is one power: Hamas.
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Ezra Klein: Charlie Kirk was practicing politics the right way

It doesn't matter. It's quite an organic process. People realise that the sky hasn't fallen and that all the doom and gloom scenarios were just so much hot air. There'll be extremes on both sides: 'We demand this! They shall not have that!' but in the middle ground, where we live with the vast majority of society, it all becomes the norm.

The same is happening with trans. The 'men in women's sport' and 'sex changes for young children' comprise a tiny portion of the problem.

Perhaps it's different in Australia, but I don't perceive there being much a middle ground over here on the issue at the moment.

We still have certain states that declare themselves to be "Trans Refuge" states (like Minnesota, home of Gov. Walz who signed the bill for it), where if a minor travels to Minnesota to receive affirming treatment, and the parents try to get them back, the state of Minnesota will refuse to do so, and bars state courts from complying with requests from authorities in other states. (which seems like it flies in the face of the full faith & credit clause of the constitution, but that's a different aspect)

"Middle ground" positions seem to exist only briefly, and then get pushed over into the "right wing" category by progressives.

I would be an example of that.

In the context of this topic.

My position was/is:
There are two genders
There are some people who have a dysphoria in which they feel like they were born in the wrong body
I'll be polite and address them as the opposite gender if it's clear that that's how they're trying to identify
They can use whichever bathroom they want, I'm not concerned about where people poop
Special considerations do need to be made for changing facilities and sports
Minors shouldn't be undergoing these kinds of treatments
Clinical due diligence needs to be exercised to make sure we're separating the "fad" component from actual cases of gender dysphoria, there shouldn't be such a thing as a "fast tracked transition" (socially or medically)

That was my position before, and that's still my position.

My position would've been considered "centrist" (or even a touch center-left) in 2016. But it's been perpetual moving of the goalposts ever since then and now my position gets labelled as "right wing regressive" by the same people today.

Look how much the pronoun rules changed

It went from
"You have to respect which of the two sets of pronouns they want to go by based on which of the two genders they identify with"
to
"Well, actually, there could be more than two, so you'll need to ask people which set they prefer"
to
"Actually, you can't use the word preferred pronouns anymore" ('preferred' is offensive, because it implies it's a choice Ze/Zir is who they are)
to
"Pronouns can change frequently, so you'll need to regularly ask people what their pronouns are"


That was another key distinction between the movements advocating for sexual orientation vs. gender identity.

I don't recall ever being asked at a work conference to introduce myself with (or wear a nametag or Zoom meeting notation advertising) my sexual proclivities.
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