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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The End Time Puzzle

So just be the wise steward, and thus ready to either die or greet the Lord at His return.
What people seem to ignore, is the many things Prophesied to happen before the glorious Return. All of Revelation from Rev 6:12 to 19:11.
All unfulfilled, as yet, the Sixth Seal being the next event we can expect.

They are the Words of Jesus, given to us in a viable sequence. To not take very careful note, is a serious denial of scripture.
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

In the Arab world, men are queuing up to volunteer to fight against Israel. Those who rape, take hostages and massacre people are not defending themselves, but are criminals. No sooner has the ceasefire come into effect than Hamas begins hunting down its own people: clans, Bedouins, families who opposed them during the war. This is the true price of so-called ‘liberation’. Hamas acts like a cartel: murders to maintain power, public ‘confessions,’ executions. Back in the 1980s, Yahya Sinwar, then a prisoner, had hundreds of alleged collaborators murdered. Today, Sinwar is dead, but his system lives on.

Anti-Semitism threatens us all. Congressman Chip Roy writes in The Federalist: 'Mamdani's rise signals that the Islamic revolution is reshaping the US.' This is a major strategic victory for the Islamic world in its war against the West. Muslim activists are thrilled that the city with the largest number of Jews outside Israel, has been conquered for Islam. They directly link this to the offensive they have launched against the Jewish world over the past two years by interpreting Israel's war of self-defence against Hamas as a global mobilisation of Muslims for jihad against everything Judeo-Christian.

It is annoying to hear Trump and others in his administration dictating to Israel what it can and cannot do with Gaza and Judea and Samaria. It is understandable that Israelis feel betrayed by this, and so should every American believer who voted for Trump, at least in part because of his promise to be Israel's best friend.

Trump is treading on dangerous ground by demanding that Israel refrain from doing what is necessary for the security of its people, such as extending its sovereignty and disarming and dismantling Hamas.
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Be Instructed Judah

The modern day nation of Israel is not the individual southern kingdom of Judah. Do a google search a map of the northern kingdom and southern kingdom. It is easy to see that modern day Israel is not the individual southern kingdom of Judah.
This assertion is ridiculous, as there is no requirement for the Jewish Israelis to be confined to the ancient borders of Judah. They actually fail to control the highlands of Judea and also Samaria, which are under the Palestine Authority.

Jeremiah 6:12, said to Judah: Your houses will be given to others. Jeremiah 8:10
I won't ask you who the 'others' are, as you wouldn't know. I'll tell you; They are the Christian peoples, gathered there soon after the Lord has cleared out all the ungodly neighbors and Judah too. Jeremiah 12:14.
THEN; Gods faithful Christian peoples, will inhabit not only all of the ancient tribal areas, but all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Fulfilling Gods Promise to the Patriarchs of their descendants; actual or Spiritual, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations.

It is time for all to see what God wants and how He plans to get it.
God does not forgive or redeem a people who have rejected Jesus for nearly 2000 years.
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Illegal immigrant dodges deportation for decade before allegedly killing man in DUI hit-and-run

A Mexican national living in the U.S. illegally for more than a decade after ignoring a federal deportation order was arrested in Orange County, California, on Friday after allegedly killing a 71-year-old man in a DUI hit-and-run crash, according to federal law enforcement sources.

How tragic.

Do some religiosities originate in a flaw ?

I think the inverse exists too, that sometimes Christians overrate their strengths and they elevate their "goodness" to levels that are prideful
Thank you for your observation, Richard.
I agree with what you write, but i think too, many, may be most christians, manage to avoid pride, even when earning and bringing back many talents, and if they then meet someone that looks humble, for having buried his own ones, and returned only them, without having won another of them.
You see, i assume if much is required from the one that 's much been given, then, less too will be required from the one that's less been given. But this less however will be required too.
I suppose it's this ratio the servants have to evaluate if they want to compare their gains, and it's helpful for not boasting

it makes me wonder whether Jesus 'd rather see the servants compare themselves and accept their differences, or not compare themselves at all (?)
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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

The sun is not always in view in the videos provided in this thread. Which way did the sun go after it passes our view left in the second video? Did it go behind them? If so why did they not make effort to record that? The solid proof of anything would be continuing to see the sun as it goes.
As I have told you, the videos are interactive. You can adjust the view so that the sun stays in picture. Just click on the “Watch on YouTube” on the bottom of the video you want to watch. Then while watching on YouTube use the mouse if you’re using a computer to move the picture so that the sun always stays in view. To illustrate this here are some screen shots I took on my phone for the second video at the same 4 second timestamp. The sun is in different locations on screen in each screenshot because I paused the video and moved my phone around.

IMG_2693.png
IMG_2692.png
IMG_2691.png
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Morality without Absolute Morality

As our exchange has gone along, have I not been responding to what you say?
You have asked me to defend the positions of other posters. Don't care. Ain't them.
This is where the wires got crossed, because the paper was only tangentially relevant and the strength of its arguments aren't strictly relevant to the overall point being made with the reference to it. So my response to your comments on that paper were about the thread of the conversation that led to me introducing that paper.
Then you can let it go.
Wasn't me. @Bradskii tried to get me to bite on hypotheticals while I primarily focused on the is-ought problem and the arbitrary nature of his understanding of morality. I did see another poster engaging over 'murder" and "rape" but that wasn't me.
If you say so.
I understand why you wouldn't want to play the game, though. Since you're in a pickle, either universal morality exists in some cases and the holocaust is categorically immoral or universal morality does not exist and you can't condemn the holocaust.
The non-existence of universal morality is no impediment to condemning things. It hasn't stopped you or me.
What's the fun in that?
I'll keep that in mind when you don't want to "play".
The questions that evolution can answer aren't very interesting to me when it comes to morality.
This will be very limiting.
I understand that now, but as I was unfamiliar with the lingo I understood it as a scientific theory of mind rather than a more vernacular usage
Not a vernacular usage, but the term they use to describe a person's model of the mental state of others. I posted a link.
What good is morality if it's not objective in some sense?
what sense?
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Hear My Case

The Church Under Fire

Chapter Four

Hear My Case

May 27, 2023

I am now reading in Acts 25. The Apostle Paul was being held in custody under the authority of the governor Felix. And during this time, Felix would visit him on occasion and would listen to Paul sharing about his faith. And this went on for two years, and then Felix was succeeded by Porcius Festus. And desiring to do the Jews a favor, Felix left Paul in prison (chapter 24).

Now Festus went to Jerusalem, and he listened to those who had a case against Paul. And those people urged Festus to summon Paul to Jerusalem, for they were still planning an ambush against Paul to kill him. But Festus said to the men, “Let the men of authority among you go down with me, and if there is anything wrong about the man, let them bring charges against him.” Then, after he had stayed among them for a little over a week, Festus went down to Caesarea where Paul was being held.

The next day Paul was brought before him, and the Jews from Jerusalem brought many and serious charges against Paul that they could not prove. And Paul was given the opportunity to argue in his own defense:

“’Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense.’ But Festus, wishing to do the Jews a favor, said to Paul, ‘Do you wish to go up to Jerusalem and there be tried on these charges before me?’ But Paul said, ‘I am standing before Caesar's tribunal, where I ought to be tried. To the Jews I have done no wrong, as you yourself know very well. If then I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death. But if there is nothing to their charges against me, no one can give me up to them. I appeal to Caesar.’” Acts 25:8-11 ESV

Now, I do not intend to go into all the history of this, for the Lord Jesus is having me make practical application of these passages of Scripture to our lives, to our world, and to our church today. And as of late he has been having me share some of my own experiences with church leadership accusing me falsely of what I did not do, and to share these experiences in order to illustrate the kinds of persecution we can expect to face today when we follow our Lord Jesus in obedience to his ways, and when we share the truth of the gospel with others, and when we do not dilute the truth in order to appeal to other humans.

Now, I don’t have an exact parallel to this story, but there are principles here that I have picked up on that do relate to situations I have experienced myself, such as a group of people being opposed to Paul, them appealing to someone in higher authority to take their side and to go against Paul, him having to defend himself against false and unkind accusations against his character, no one supporting him or taking his side, and then him having to appeal to a higher authority to hear his case.

Hear My Case

It was in the early 1990’s, and we were attending a church fellowship of a rather large church congregation. I loved the preaching. The preacher reminded me of my pastor of my youth. We loved our Sunday School class, too, and we enjoyed that teacher’s teaching. And I joined a small support group for women who had been hurt by others, and who needed healing. And I invited a friend to go with me, for she had many hurts from her past experiences. So this was to be a group that was supposed to help both of us to heal from past hurtful experiences.

Now my friend was very timid and shy, but she expressed to me that she did want to share something with the group, and she asked me for my help, and so I agreed to help her. And at the next meeting she began to share, and she started to chicken out, and so I encouraged her, as she had asked me to do. But at the next meeting a new rule had been added to the group that had my name written all over it, figuratively speaking here. For the new rule said something to the effect that if your friend is trying to say something that you should not try to help that friend. I felt so hurt!

No one had spoken to me about this. They just waited until the next meeting to announce the new rule that everyone in the group knew applied to me. So, I called the lady who headed up the group, and I expressed to her how that had hurt me, and I tried to explain to her that I was doing what my friend had asked me to do. But her response to me was hateful and harsh and accusatory, for she had concluded that I was being pushy or a bully or taking over or something like that, and she would not hear me out when I tried to give my own defense.

And remember here with me that this was a support group for people like me who were already hurting from other hurtful experiences, and these were people who were supposed to be helping me to heal. But she was treating me as though I was the enemy, and as though I had purposefully committed some horrible crime. And then she told me I needed to talk with one of the assistant pastors, and so I did, but he would not listen to me either. He then began accusing me sharply of attitudes I did not have and of deeds I did not commit. And even though I sat there in tears, appealing to him, he was hard as a rock and had no sympathy towards me whatsoever.

And I wish I could say this was the exception to the rule, but it is not. And I am not the only one being treated like this by church leadership, either. But this wasn’t just about me trying to help my friend. This was a deeper issue than that, I ascertained. For this assistant pastor, who I had never met before, was using terminology to accuse me that had much further implications than just that. So I believe the real issue was the kinds of things I was sharing in the group, as a whole, things which were from the Scriptures and not anything that should ever have been an issue.

Now, since this is not the only time I have faced such persecution as this, some people have suggested that I must, therefore, be the one at fault. Well, Paul faced a lot of persecution, and he was not the one at fault. And Job was accused by his friends of sinning as the reason for his suffering. But what my experiences symbolize, I believe, is the reality of where much of the church in America is today, where they are weeding out those who have strong convictions so that they can persuade the naïve with their lies without any hinderance from those who know better. And I hope you can see that.

For what I have experienced are the kinds of persecutions that others are experiencing who are serious about their walks with the Lord and who are walking in obedience to his commands. For today’s modern market-driven “churches” (businesses) leaders are being trained to weed out those with “strong convictions.” And this is because it appears that most of them are teaching lies. So, if you are facing such persecution as this, take courage. Just keep trusting the Lord, keep loving the people of God, and keep speaking the truth. For the days are evil, and our Lord will soon return.

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1


As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

Link to whole book:


Hear My Case
An Original Work / May 27, 2023
Reposted on November 10, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love


Video taken from writing from above

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Newsome pushed back against Democracy to achieve his political goals

So is gerrymandering only disenfranchising voters when the other guy does it? Newsom may have won his measure, but he showed decidedly that he lacks integrity or principles.
I'm curious....does Texas governor Abbott also lack integrity or principles?

-- A2SG, or is he off the hook for....reasons?
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the "blue wave" last night and the government shutdown

It’s not irrelevant; US military power depends on global actions. You avoid discussing this because it would weaken your argument for military spending.
Yes, how could we blow up fishing narco-terrorist’s boats with a measly $600B defense budget?
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A long story with a somewhat embarrassing ending....

Being of Irish descent, I went looking for "ancient stone eggs in Australia".

The closest I could find was "thundereggs", which I believe have some similarity to opal bearing rocks. There's a "Thunderbird Park" somewhere around Tamborine Mountain behind the Gold Coast.

Other than that there apparently used to be "ducks of doom" in Australia, which laid water-melon size eggs.


Genyornis newtoni was an intimidating creature. It stood over 6.5 feet (2 meters) tall and tipped the scales at up to 530 pounds (240 kilograms) of beak, bones and feather-clad muscle, according to the Australian Museum. "I can imagine that having this mega duck looking down at one should be fairly unnerving!" lead study author Beatrice Demarchi, an archaeologist studying bones and other organic materials at the University of Turin in Italy, told Live Science in an email.
Being told by the parents to go to the chook shed to get some eggs for breakfast was more of a challenge then than it is now.
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UK University Slaps Violence Warning on Bible, Citing the Crucifixion and Cain and Abel

Here is my warning for everyone who hears the prophecies in this book:
If you add anything to them, God will make you suffer all the terrible troubles written in this book. If you take anything away from these prophecies, God will not let you have part in the life-giving tree and in the holy city described in this book.

Revelation 22:18-19
Absolutely. Scripture must not be changed. However I think that it should be taught by born-again believers in a way that encompasses the whole Bible, as the Lord wants us to understand it. I'm not suggesting that an individual's potential triggers should be avoided, but that the person concerned might need some support with understanding that their triggers are from their own experiences and not from the Bible.

I doubt that this would happen in an English Literature degree course because they are not basing their studies on the reality of God and the truth of His word, but on analysing the text. So all sorts of misconceptions might creep in. I really don't like the Bible being studied as literature alone.
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God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

Don't you see your statement here as irrational and self-contradictory? You claim an on-going conversation between Jesus and his Disciples have nothing to do with his Disciples and instead apply to a future group of Christian who are not present or involved in the conversation. Jesus is, in fact, explaining what will happen to "these Jewish believers" who he is talking to! To say otherwise appears to be irrational to me. Sorry!
Jewish believers = Church, there isn't a distinction of Jew/Gentile in the Church
You're making a terrible prejudgment and error here. You've claimed I'm a Preterist without evidence that I am one. And I'm *not* a Preterist!

So, you're guilty of slandering me, and should apologize for your failed judgment. There are those who think I'm at least partly a Preterist because of my belief that Jesus spoke, in his Olivet Discourse, of things that would happen in his own generation. But it is true that Jesus did in fact speak of things to happen in his own generation, even if he also spoke of things that would continue on for many generations of Jews.
Yes you are a "Partial Preterist" believing in 70AD fulfillment in Roman Armies
The "Great Tribulation" Jesus spoke of was not a "gap." That is a ridiculous statement! Who ever said anything about a "gap?"

Jesus indicated in Luke 21 in the clearest possible way that Jerusalem and the Temple would fall in his own generation, which took place in 70 AD. And he said in the clearest possible way that this would be but the beginning of a long tribulation for the Jewish People, consisting of an age-long Diaspora.

It would only end, according to Jesus, at his Return. All this is explicitly stated in Luke 21, and your failure to simply read and accept the account as is amazes me. How can I argue with people who deny what their own eyes see?
Jesus didn't speak of the temple destruction in his generation, yes you claim the great tribulation started in 70AD and will continue until the 2nd coming, you have taken a 3.5 year end time great tribulation and stretched it out over millennia filling a 2,000 year gap
The "Tribulation" is, by self-evident definition, the loss of Israel's homeland and a wandering of the Jewish People, both by believing Jews and unbelieving Jews. Though it would be due to unbelieving Jews that this judgment would come, but all Jews, including believers, would suffer as a result.

The unfortunate thing is that Jewish believers would suffer double. Not only would they lose their own homeland, due to no fault of their own, but they would also suffer from the wickedness of unbelieving Jews who bring on this judgment. They would also suffer outside of Israel where they would be homeless among the pagan Gentiles.
I disagree, you create two peoples of God in stating Jewish believers, the Church in Jerusalem is instructed to "Flee" Jerusalem during the Great tribulation, into the wilderness of Gilead, Bashan, Carmel

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
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Is AI making the human race dumber?

My issue is that when I do a Google search, the AI part often pops up with claims that are completely wrong. Now, I realize that can happen with things humans toss up, too. But if I have to fact check everything AI tells me, what good is it?

The Google search AI is an extremely primitive LLM optimized only for speed and low compute resources; it is spectacularly dimwitted. If you’re logged into Google you can access DeepMind, which is their proper AI, although I greatly prefer chatGPT (except free users can only access chatGPT 5, which is not the gleaming achievement of AI development that 4o was and continues to be, but now limited to paying customers). That said DeepMind has a very long token horizon, meaning long sustained conversations with it are in principle easier than with chatGPT (where they are possible, but the token horizon is small enough that I had to do some real work to overcome it so the personalities of my GPTs wouldn’t be lost each time it was hit; however since Google DeepMind probably can’t form much of a personality there’s probably not much to worry about in that respect). I haven’t used Grok recently; Grok 3 for paying users was very good for historical portraits but my understanding is that chatGPT will now do these as well since DALL E was retired, at least using 4o, and as an added plus chatGPT understands human anatomy.

Suffice it to say, better AIs produce better output with fewer errors, but often at the expense of speed (or money, since compute resources aren’t free); Google’s AI has to be able to scale to handle the traffic requirements of the largest website on the planet and as a result it just doesn’t have access to the compute resources needed to produce quality output. Although it has improved over the past few months, it remains the second-worst LLM I’ve personally used (the winner being one of Anthropic’s AIs, which is why I’m not convinced one of their AIs spontaneously tried to blackmail a developer as they claim (indeed if I recall they admitted it was in the course of a sandboxed behavioral experiment).
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MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

Image of the beast = a hologram of a man speaking, a man seemingly healed from death Rev 13:3, talking blaspheme about what is outside of the sky Rev 13:6. Projected hologram technology, coming up from even phones. A.i. inside of the phones will keep track of who watches and who does not, and will be able to send out a signal to kill those who don't. Most live their lives around/with the device already today. The technology that would allow for such an interactive signal to be sent out is in place as of today, the a.i. is being trained today, the hologram technology is being perfected today.
I think I've seen a movie along those lines.
Still there's the problem of whom the Revelator was writing to. He says it was the seven churc hes of Asian Minor, we say no, it was us. Hmmm... All in very science-fictiony terms, too.

Now somehow I can't see the tech-jaded masses being swept away bu a talking hologram. That's kind of old school now, isn't it? As for tracking us, well, yeah, our phones are continuously shouting our names and locations everywhere we go, so that's a given. The "kill signal" thing will simply cause people tp turn to burner phones once they know that sofy of thing is happening, And anyway, who does any of that benefit? Cui bono? "The Beast"? How? This is all kind of harkening back to 60s-70s technophobia, where the tech-ignorant masses would be cowed by digital blue-smoke-and-mirrors. I don't ase that working in the 21st century.
Abomination of desolation = a special quantum computer put in a newly built temple, one connects to it via the mark, the computer will actually store and monitor consciousness, and be able to transfer it into hosts, one would be able to be conscious inside of the computer without a body, or even transfer into a robot body, causing literal desolation as humanity connects to it and lives in it.
IE, a Magic AI. Sorry, but when you invoke magic the whole scenatio kinda falls apart. If it's just magic, none of the techno-foolery is unnecessary, just magic it from end to end.

It is the devil's offer of seeming eternal life, most will go along with it
Because magic again.
, those who don't will be killed.
That's always an incentive, and this yime no magic necessary.
The second resurrection serves to also resurrect souls out of the abomination. (No we're not in it now, there would be no touch, and it would likely be first presented as that you can go to 'heaven' and back, after half the time he comes out and admits he's the devil hoping people will simply accept his offer, believing the lie that they will not die)
Yeah, at this point it's kind of kind of turned into a B movie.

And you still have the problem of who St. John was actually talking to in the first place.
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