New Posts

bèlla · 2025-10-10T22:34:20-0500

RDKirk said:
The church would not have gotten anywhere without women from the very start. Women are indispensable.

Let them stunt. We aren’t crying because we’re single or becoming incels. We’re investing in ourselves, our families and communities. This thread has encouraged me to encourage my friends to invest in them.

Maybe it’s time for an alternative in the christian dating space.

~ bella

eclipsenow · 2025-10-10T22:33:20-0500

AvilaSurfer said:
Racist? Racists see racism everywhere. I’ve seen interviews with former hostages describing the poor Palestinian people. They’re not blameless.

You did not address one of the substantive points! Instead you tried to use a Bulverism on me. A Bulverism is where someone tries to psychoanalyse WHY someone is wrong, rather than prove THAT they are wrong. It's playing the man, and not the ball.

MASTERS IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS - MIDDLE EAST
A friend of mine with a Masters in International Relations focussing on Palestine said of today’s 100,000 strong march across the Sydney Harbour Bridge in FULL rain:
“Fabulous turn out today at the March for Humanity. End the starvation, end the occupation, end the genocide. Sanction Israel now. From 2005 Israel and its leaders have spoken about “putting Gaza on a diet” and “mowing the lawn” all the while controlling Gaza’s borders, water and electricity. If you don’t know what was happening in Gaza pre 2023, or what has been happening to Palestinians since 1948, find out. Because blaming Palestinian resistance movements, however repugnant, is like blaming the French resistance in WWII or the Warsaw ghetto leadership for the Holocaust.”

So to get back on topic?

1. How would you react to knowing 700,000 of your people got kicked off their land?

2. What about the UN allocating your people land - but the other guys go to war the next day and steal 60% of it?

3. What about decades of your people being treated as second class citizens - a true apartheid - IF they are lucky enough to work in Israel?

4. What about in more recent decades the oppressor then getting positively 1930's GERMAN about it all - and committing acts of settler colonisation, property theft, Ghettoization, and now outright concentration camps, starvation, and ethnic cleansing?

5. DEFYING 'JUS POST BELLUM'.
Even before the Hamas terrorist attacks, Israel was denying the Palestinian people a principle known as 'Jus Post Bellum' - the just conclusion of a war and letting the defeated nation rebuild without undue suffering and ongoing enmity. Israel seems to have strived to create the most enmity possible! Gaza and the West Bank are the world's largest open air prisons. The people there have suffered blockades, restricted trade, and even limited fresh water and power.
It is sociology 101 that if you occupy and persecute a people group for generations, they will retaliate. The west sympathises with the Jewish plight after the horrors of the Holocaust. We are only recently waking up to the fact that they are now perpetrating the very same crimes that were perpetrated against them just a few generations ago!

6. ECONOMIC ADDICTION TO WAR IN GAZA
Australian Jewish journalist Anthony Loewenstein was raised to believe Israel was a golden light to the world. However, when he visited there he was shocked to discover how Israel treated the Palestinian people. He has published a book and spoken in various popular Australian political forums (such as the National Press Club) about the "Palestine Laboratory". Basically - Israel tests their new weapons kit on Palestinians - and then markets them to the world as 'battle tested.' You know - because bombs that kill TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent Palestinian woman and children deserve to be marketed that way! Some of them have enormous kill-zones. Not only that, but America sold plenty of huge bombs to Israel during this conflict - bombs with kill-zones of about 400 to 700 meters in diameter!

Gaza is the lab where the Expansionist Zionist Military Industrial Complex tests their new weapons. Israel are ECONOMICALLY addicted to testing new weapons in Gaza. They avoid using a tactical local effect smart bomb, and use such huge charges they explode lungs up to 300 meters in all directions! Women and children cough up their lungs and suffocate across this huge 600 meter diameter. That's several city blocks away from the target!

How is that not a war crime?

Lowenstein also documents how many persecuting and apartheid regimes and dictators Israel not only sold weapons to, but sold PR knowledge about how to get away with it! From Apartheid South Africa to Pinochet's Chile! The Palestine Laboratory Podcast

7. FLOUTING INTERNATIONAL LAW IN THE WEST BANK - CONDUCTING THEIR OWN TERRORISM BEFORE HAMAS!

Since October 7, 2023 Israel have proudly ANNOUNCED to the world how much more WEST BANK Palestinian land they are declaring Israel's!
Their illegal land grabs have escalated. Oh - so have their murders and war crimes!

Sorry - who's the terrorist again? This is all in the WEST BANK that did not attack Israel.

Mapping how Israel’s land grabs are reshaping the occupied West Bank

Israel's assault in Jenin and Tulkarem seeks to suppress resistance and tighten control amid a demographic crisis.

www.aljazeera.com

GodAndChocolateVanilla · 2025-10-10T22:32:42-0500

DreamyLaLa said:
Gosh, it's been months since I've posted here! To be honest, for a while, I've been super busy preparing for the release of my anime book series La La Mermaid on Amazon. There's a lot of work that goes into that. But I wanted to let you all that I haven't fallen off the face of the earth.

I'm also currently hosting a giveaway on Instagram to celebrate the upcoming release of La La Mermaid! There are a lot of cool prizes that the winner will receive. I even made a YouTube video all about it!

Login to view embedded media

Wow that's awesome!! ^w^ A very big accomplishment creating your own book and having it on Amazon!! I wish you the best!! [Hugs]

Richard T · 2025-10-10T22:30:45-0500

AetheriusLamia said:
I've studied for decades, and read all of the Bible multiple times, continue reading the Bible daily, and now I'm praying in accordance with Mark 11:24, Jesus telling us to 'believe that you have already received it'. Yet though I will to do this, thoughts occur in my brain involuntarily such as,

"You're just engaging in wishful thinking."

"This probably isn't going to happen."

"Your experience and observations of the world are better explained by atheism."

"Your petitions haven't been granted because God wants you to be 'Eastern Orthodox', or Mohammedan, or some other religion."

Although I try repudiating these thoughts as demons whispering to me, by recalling Sacred Scripture, by engaging in logcal argument, by prayer for the demons to be banished from me, and continue asking God to give me more faith and unwavering faith, the thoughts continue, and it appears to me I genuinely believe them - that when I die everything will be over, life done - because I am discouraged, downhearted, depressed, sad, rather than excited about being healed soon, rather than be happy that God is bringing about a greater good every moment I'm not healed, rather than be content knowing no matter what happens God will make it right.

What do you think? Is there some way to stop doubting? to be finally convinced the Gospel is true?

While I love Mark 11:23, the way it works is you have to hear from God to have that kind of faith. You can pray for faith but "Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. The word there is spoken word or rhema. Now I always say that God wants to talk to us more than we want to listen. Sometimes we just let ourselves got in the way. To me, the things that may help you, is to continue in humility, asking God to speak to you. Find yourself some Christian praise music, or even an older hymn that you can entreat God with.
As you seem to be stuck, confess all the doubts, all the religious thinking about various versions of Christianity and just get real with God, letting him know that you give your life to Him, that you do believe the bible is true and that you want to experience His fellowship and love. Sort of like starting with a blank canvas in your expectation to God with only the word of God as your protection from errant doctrines. The scripture below I think speaks to this, that we have to empty ourselves, become more child-like and see God in the purest and simplest form.

It would be good to seek God in a church too. When I was at my lowest point, someone told me a church where the power of God was real. I was skeptical but I grown up in a church where there was not even talk of God's power. What I received was different than what I expected. I saw real love and joy in the church people. Super genuine and not fake like I have seen so much of before. It only took a few services that I was singing the song "I exalt thee" and it was as if something just lifted off me. I could not wait to get to the altar so I set there squirming until the preaching was over. The power often missed is the church that can actually be so sensitive to God that they hear him, follow him and create an atmosphere where our hearts can connect to him. I am not talking about some New age garbage but the real God of the bible who really is heart to heart, connected to solid Christians that really worship him in spirit and truth.
I do believe you really are going to find God speaking to you, giving you the faith you so desperately seek. God bless you always!

1 Corinthians 1:26-27, which says, "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty".

MotoToTheMax · 2025-10-10T22:16:02-0500

MrMoe said:
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Please stop derailing this thread.

As I said before, candidate Spanberger (D) refused to answer a simple yes or no question on whether she will continue to endorse Jay Jones after this scandal.

Login to view embedded media

I commented on what Candidate Spanberger should do, you know, the video that was posted, as part of the topic. That you don't like my very presidential verbiage and prose is not my problem.

mark46 · 2025-10-10T22:14:22-0500

We might add the no-reason 39% tax on Swiss goods.

stevevw · 2025-10-10T22:11:01-0500

Bradskii said:
Killing someone to protect your own life is self defence. In that context (relative to that context) it's morally acceptable.
Killing someone innocent, predetermined and illegally is murder. In those contexts (relative to those contexts) it's morally unacceptable.

Do those two satements make sense to you?

Yes I have always understood this rationalisation.

We can say if we are talking about murder that it is qualified already as an immoral act then it is absolutely immoral fullstop. Theres no contextualising. Murder is not self defense by its very nature to be even compared to murder.

In fact in some ways its a completely different moral. The moral of 'life preservation and protection' comes in as the greater moral that takes over. So its more a completely new moral issue rather than the same moral issue being contextualised. I don't think morality is so binary in that sense.

Its like lying. The example of lying about the Jews hiding in your attic. This is not about lying but saving human life which is the greater moral. This takes over as the moral truth. Its no longer about lying as a moral issue to have to contextualise that lying is ok. I think thats the wrong way to look at this and sort of implies lying is ok and can be rationalised away.

Its about protecting innocent life. In fact the person has already committed to that moral before the Germans come to their door. Denying the Jews are in the attic is part of protecting the life of the Jews.

Its comparing apples with oranges as they are not the same moral issues or moral truth any more. But completely different morals clashing. Maybe thats another way of contextualising lol.

But I think theres an important difference as by using greater morals its always grounding the context in a moral objective. Rather than rationalising immoral acts away based on arbitrary context. Or subjective determinations of what is justified contextually.

Vambram · 2025-10-10T22:10:55-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Who said I was, or are you implying that?

It appears that you might have. Because the Venezuela dictator claims those are innocent people in those boats. Whereas, President Trump, Secretary Pete Hegseth, and our military says those boats were illegal drug traffickers.

Chrystal-J · 2025-10-10T21:51:17-0500

I seem to remember being encouraged to kiss relics at my old church. (They were in protective containers.)

Richard T · 2025-10-10T21:40:25-0500

Florian7051 said:
I’ve prayed and not gotten any type of sign or even a feeling on this. I don’t feel love from the church right now. Last Sunday I was told it was my Christian duty to vote Democrat, or I wasn’t honoring Christ (this was a sermon, not a private conversation). I’m a Republican, my cue to leave and never return to that church. I am not the bigot that the extreme left thinks I am. I love and am let down by people in the same breath. I vote Republican because I believe in Capitalism, not because I believe it honors Christ (nor do I think it dishonors him). Don’t get me wrong, I see the need for social safety nets. I am a 100% disabled veteran and if it wasn’t for my Comp & Pen I wouldn’t be able to feed my family, but there is a difference between social safety nets and handouts to everyone (this is Sloth). I have deployed to areas where Communism has destroyed society; it is not self-sustaining. Anyway, I think from a societal perspective the Republican party is better for the economy than the Democratic party. I don’t 100% agree with the Republican party on everything either. Things like Union labor is beneficial not just for maintaining fair wages, but also for protecting the integrity of the trade. Anyway, I digress, my point is I have opinions, and they are mine, and I’m allowed to have them. When politics are brought up Democrats label me as a bigot. I understand why, but I’m not. I see the countless social media posts by Right Wing Christians drunk on pride, beckoning for a war with the Democratic Party, and justifying their anger because they’re “defending their Christian values”, no love in their hearts. I have a daughter who is in the LGBTQ community. While I don’t understand and don’t agree with her lifestyle, I love her. I love her every day. I’m not enabling her lifestyle; I just love her unconditionally. Since when are sinners not allowed in the church? I have sexual sins. I’ve watched porn. I started dating my wife when she was married. She was abandoned and separated but her husband was still alive. I had relations with her prior to marriage. I got her pregnant while she was still married to her ex-husband, I’ve sodomized her, and she isn’t the only woman I’ve had pre-marital relations with. Because my wife was divorced, I didn’t even get married by a Clergyman, but then I was called by God. I repented. Her ex-husband had since passed away, so my wife and I renewed our vows in front of God, and we pray he honors this marriage. I just don’t understand. I love all people. Before God called to me, I found forgiveness in my heart for someone that murdered an ex-girlfriend of mine, and this was before the teachings of the gospel. I joined the Marine Corps to help people. I joined the fire department to help people. My politics have nothing to do with hate. Left extremists hate the right and think we’re all extremists who tote around our AR15s and long for a war with them and want to control the masses through oppression. Right extremists hate the left and think they’re all a violent bunch of radical rebels who want to destabilize the current economic system and take their rights away. And amid all this is the church. Everyone has taken a side. Isn’t there any churches that don’t meddle in politics and just help people find Christ? My wife and I were baptized Protestant so we can’t even receive the sacraments in the Catholic Church. Other denominations are very politically polarized right or left, which I’m not interested in. I don’t believe in predesignation nor do I think the Bible supports it, so there’s that. Other denominations condemn actions that aren’t even supported in the Bible and keep you chained to guilt and fear. Some denominations don’t even notice each other in the pews it’s like being a ghost; others are so cultish you’re not allowed to do anything outside of the church. Tell me, how are you going to help people find Christ without going out into the world. I am always prepared to go down to hell to get someone. I don’t care if it’s a drug house, a strip club, a rave, a casino; when my phone rings and someone needs help, I will go anywhere to get them; it’s in these moments that you sew the seeds of freedom. They may not be ready to love that day, but that seed will grow if someone is willing to put it there and nurture it. I have prayed for a church that loves all. That invites all sinners to come listen. That doesn’t require a membership, that doesn’t make me feel guilty about whatever doctrine they’ve added on to the Bible to make me feel trapped, that doesn’t view someone as hopeless because they see the world differently, that aren’t indifferent about their members or opposite, make you feel guilty or talk poorly of you if you have friends outside of the church. Don’t get me wrong, Jesus is my center, my rock, my everything, but the church is not Christ. Does this place exist on earth, or do I need to wait for the afterlife to find it? I’ve been praying that something leads me to the right church, but I feel more lost now than when I started looking at the beginning of the week. I guess if there’s room in your heart and time in your prayers tonight, I could use some help having my heart reach the heavens. Please lord lead me where I need to be, where you want me to be, this I pray.

Dear God, I thank you for this brother. I pray you help him find a church where there is the love and power of God operating. I pray that he sees himself as you see him. That he is free from condemnation. That he who is forgiven much loves much and that love will permeate his being. I pray you strengthen his family, bring his daughter to Christ and bring more joy into his life. In Jesus name. God bless you brother, I'm biased but perhaps consider attending a church like the Assembly of God? Or even a Southern baptist church seems unlikely to preach much politics, especially from the left. Some charismatic churches too are great, as long as they are not focused too much on money, or have weird end time views. Regardless of the denomination, I pray you light up and will now your place in God. It is a good place too.
Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-10T21:18:24-0500

Adam

Vambram · 2025-10-10T21:17:28-0500

ViaCrucis said:
No, it's just tragically true.

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/two-years-hellish-war-have-devastated-gazas-children

https://unispal.un.org/pdfs/UNICEF_CAAC-July2011.pdf

OPT: Number of children killed doubles - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory; published on 12 Oct 2006 by TNH

reliefweb.int

Truth is not slander.

As Christians we have a moral obligation for speaking truth. We also have a moral obligation to be on the side of life and human dignity.

It is unjustifiable and anti-Christian to support the murder of children in the name of Nationalism.

-CryptoLutheran

Those wars were started by the demonic savages of Hamas who use innocent people, including children, as human shields.

MotoToTheMax · 2025-10-10T20:59:02-0500

BPPLEE said:
You can tell them anything you want, forum rules prevent me from responding any further

I did.

Freth · 2025-10-10T20:49:22-0500

Louise2065 said:
Good morning all,
I’ve been a Christian for nearly 40 years, but like to keep it simple and not get too bogged down with tradition etc…,
I’m seeking some Christian counsel regarding how we accept people in to our church family or should I say not accept?
My belief is welcome one and all, as Jesus would, let him do the working in their lives our job is to love and disciple…..
I am finding fellow church members judging new people, how they look, how they act, are they safe, where are they from? We shouldn’t ask them into groups but vet them so to speak before inviting them to bible studies, online groups, social groups! Who decides how much vetting is enough?
They seem to throw around the words wisdom & discernment to justify that they don’t want someone in our church…..my spirit is struggling with this…. Had anyone else had this with the discernment/wisdom thing?

New people coming into the church are from all walks of life, and so you can expect the full spectrum of worldly appearance and demeanor. People who have been attending church their whole lives don't realize how hard it can be to walk into a church on your own.

Imagine what would happen if the wrong thing is said, or the wrong impression is given. How you treat someone may well be the reason they stay over leave, not only the church, but the faith. (I witnessed this very thing happening in my own church growing up. Gossip about someone new forced them out of the church before they had a chance.)

In my church we have Sabbath school (commonly known as Sunday school), which is the morning study before the main service. The adults, teens and children have their own study groups. There is no one deciding who can and can't participate. All are welcome. The same goes for group activities.

It is unrealistic for a church to expect new people coming in to look and act like Christians when they're coming from the world. It takes time.

I don't consider it to be wise or discerning to turn away people from participating. The point of study and fellowship is to learn and grow as Christians.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

Always in His Presence · 2025-10-10T20:44:50-0500

retired firefighter said:
talking to God

Thank you, but I’ll wait until @The Liturgist answers the questions.

Fantine · 2025-10-10T20:32:50-0500

Oompa Loompa said:
She was implying that Christians are lack empathy if they refuse to make compromises to accommodate another's sinful lifestyles. Jesus never done such a thing. Therefore, one must conclude that Jesus lacked empathy.

Jesus approached people with love. Our deacon, in his Eucharist retreat, described his death on the cross as the ultimate act of solidarity. So fully human that he experienced the very best and the very worst of experiences a man can have.
I found that insight so compelling. What if God became one of us is more than a slogan or a song. He was our brother.
Saying things with unconditional love is very different from rebuking.
Conservative preachers and politicians often come off as rebuking, punishing, hateful. WWJD? What are many of your leaders telling you?

Guojing · 2025-10-10T20:29:56-0500

fhansen said:
Sure, Jesus teaching two gospels now. You’ve bought into some contrived nonsense here, made up to support a novel, faulty gospel.

I didn't say anything about there being 2 gospels now.

I am asking you whether you regard yourself as Israel. Is that a yes?

Do you consider Moses your spokesperson today as well?

GodAndChocolateVanilla · 2025-10-10T20:22:47-0500

There is too much hatred on the Earth that God made.

We are all a Family because we are all made by the same God.

I wish everyone loved each other and I wish all the suffering would end and we could all be happy.

I wish I could find God finally.

I know He is everywhere and is always there, but I want to know Who He Is.

I want to know why He made me.

I want to know why He doesn’t talk to me or many other Humans He made.

Also I want to know who Satan is and why he doesn’t seem to like any human that God made.

Or why God let’s Satan attack us.

I have no idea who God is and I have no idea who Satan is.

All I know is God made me and Satan seems to hate me.

Sometimes I wish I lived in a different universe where there was no suffering.

I wish I could join a group of people who wanted to look for God and try to help save our Universe from wickedness and hatred.

I hope one day God gives me the courage to help Him save humanity and also all animals.

I do have some hope that I could one day join other Christians in helping save our Universe and that one day everyone will be saved and forgiven by God.

And I hope one day Satan stops hating me and other humans God made and that God forgives and saves Satan, the demons, and Satan’s followers.

Studyman · 2025-10-10T20:14:45-0500

Hentenza said:
Rejection of God’s commandments is not the issue,

It was with God and all the Prophets. It was with the Jesus "of the Bible". (Unless "you repent", you shall all likewise perish) Repent from what? Rejecting God's Laws, or obeying them? The Pharisees were rejected "BECAUSE" they rejected God's Commandments, at least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. Paul teaches, Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but "the doers" of the law "shall be justified".

What Law is Paul speaking to here? The Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" "ADDED" after the Golden calf, "Till the Seed should come"? Or the Laws, Judgments and Statutes of God that teach men how to Love and Honor God, and how to love and treat others according to His definition of Righteousness.

Why not actually read my post, and ask me questions about it's content, and lets have an honest discussion.

Hentenza said:
being put back under the bondage of the law is beyond problematic.

What do you mean here "put back under the bondage of the law"? Do you mean, "Now go and sin no more" is Jesus "putting a man back under the bondage of the law"?

Are you saying you were obeying God's Laws and Judgments in times past, and then Jesus convinced you to reject God's Laws and Judgments, and now you think I am trying to ""put you back under the bondage of the law"?

Please define for me what you mean by this term?

Hentenza said:
So you are right to say that by the works of the law no one is justified. However, this is really not what you are teaching is it?

I will ask you another question, I hope you will answer. What LAW was in place to provide for atonement/justification of the sinner, under the old Levitical Priesthood?

jacks · 2025-10-10T19:59:21-0500

Praying for Pey Ling, she sounds like a wonderful person.

ThatRobGuy · 2025-10-10T19:55:38-0500

Pommer said:
What “left wing”?

I'll field that question... (and even with a left-leaning source)

Pro-Palestinian Group at Columbia Now Backs ‘Armed Resistance’ by Hamas

Columbia University Apartheid Divest has withdrawn an apology it made last spring for a member who said “Zionists don’t deserve to live.”

www.nytimes.com

Per the NY Times article:
Citing revolutionary thinkers, like Vladimir Lenin and Frantz Fanon, it explained how solidarity was essential with members of the so-called Axis of Resistance — which includes Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas — because they oppose imperialism.
Since then, the group has praised a Tel Aviv attack by Palestinian militants that killed seven people at a light rail station on Oct. 1, including a mother who died while shielding her 9-month-old baby. It also praised Iran’s missile attack on the Jewish state that began that evening, calling it a “bold move.”

On Tuesday, the group said it rescinded an apology it made last spring about the behavior of Khymani James, a student who had said in a disciplinary hearing that “Zionists don’t deserve to live,” and, “Be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.”

Mahmoud Khalil was a quasi-leader and spokesman for that group, and people on the left were throwing a hissy fit about him being in line for deportation.

Does that sufficiently answer your question?

AV1611VET · 2025-10-10T19:50:52-0500

timewerx said:
You sound like Donald Trump.

Trying to convince everyone that a bad thing is a good thing.

No.

That would be Chemie Grünenthal.

Danthemailman · 2025-10-10T19:47:44-0500

Social media erupts as resurfaced AG James posts come back to haunt her: 'No one is above the law'

Social media erupts as resurfaced AG James posts come back to haunt her: 'No one is above the law'

New York Attorney General Letitia James was mocked on social media for her past tweets about the rule of law in light of her recent indictment for alleged mortgage fraud.

www.foxnews.com

Hentenza · 2025-10-10T19:41:58-0500

Apple Sky said:
OK fair enough, but now I will have to say good night and may God bless you.

Good night to you too. May the lord keep you in His arms and keep you warm. God bless you.

Mercy Shown · 2025-10-10T19:30:03-0500

Bro.T said:
Paul says in Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. In other words if there is no law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed or no blame can be accredited to any person when there is no law. Now, let’s see what Sin is according to the Bible in I John 3:4 it states, "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So if the law was nailed to the cross that would mean its okay to use the Lords name in vain, put other gods before HIM, make graven images and bow before them, pollute the Sabbath day, steal, commit murder, commit adultery and bear false witness. If all these things are okay to commit, then we might as well throw the Bible out the back door and do what ever feels good to us.

We will see that Paul was in fact a law keeper and how he preached out of the Law and the Prophets.

Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord?

Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.

Let's go into Paul's writings and take another look at both of these laws. We will go into the Book of Galatians chapter 3. This is one of the chapters that the majority of Christian preachers use to do away with the Lord's commandments. Now, let's read carefully!

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Take heed to what Paul's says above, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions." What is transgression? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) Transgression is braking of the commandments. What law was added because of the braking of the law? The sacrificial law! Paul is simply asking these Gentiles, "why perform the sacrificial law? It was added because of sin until the seed should come. Who is the seed?

Let's back up in this chapter and find out.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16) Who is the SEED? CHRIST! So, this law was added (which is the sacrificial law) until Christ came. What was the sacrificial law used for until Christ came? Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

The sacrificial law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Before we continue, we must clear one thing up. Are we justified by faith alone? Let's see. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31) What law is established? Certainly not the sacrificial law, we have seen above that it was added because of transgression until the Seed came (which was Christ). The Royal law to be established forever which are the Ten Lords commandments!

1. Romans 5:13 does not mean there is “no sin without law.”

“For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” (Romans 5:13)

Rebuttal:
Paul is not denying that people sinned before the Mosaic Law — in fact, he explicitly says “sin was in the world.”
He means that before the written law, sin was not charged in the same way because there was no formal, codified standard. Yet death still reigned (Romans 5:14), proving sin existed and was judged.

Supporting texts:

Romans 2:14–15 — Gentiles “who do not have the law” still have a law written on their hearts and are accountable.
Romans 4:15 — “Where there is no law, there is no transgression” — meaning no legal violation of a covenant code, not no moral guilt.

So “no law, no sin” is a misreading. Sin always existed (Genesis 4:7; 6:5); the Mosaic Law simply revealed it more clearly (Romans 7:7–9).

2. Sin is indeed “transgression of the law,” but that doesn’t mean the Mosaic Law still governs believers.

“Sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)

Rebuttal:
John is not redefining sin but reaffirming that lawlessness is rebellion against God’s moral will. But under the New Covenant, believers are under “the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2), not the old Mosaic code.

Supporting texts:

Romans 6:14 — “You are not under law but under grace.”
1 Corinthians 9:20–21 — Paul distinguishes between being “under the law” (Moses) and being “under the law of Christ.”
Hebrews 8:13 — The old covenant is “obsolete.”

Moral truth (don’t murder, don’t steal, etc.) continues, but the covenantal framework (the Ten Commandments as part of Sinai) does not bind believers.

3. The “two laws” framework is artificial.

The Bible never calls the Ten Commandments and sacrificial system two distinct laws. They are parts of one covenantgiven at Sinai.

Supporting texts:

Deuteronomy 4:13–14 — “He declared to you His covenant… the Ten Commandments… and the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments.”
→ Both were part of one covenant.
2 Corinthians 3:7–11 — The law “engraved on stones” (the Ten Commandments) is called the ministry of deathand has been done away in Christ.

So Scripture never divides the law into “moral” vs. “ceremonial” categories in the way later theologians do.

4. The Levitical sacrifices did indeed atone for unintentional sins, but that was temporary and symbolic.

Leviticus 4–5 shows sacrifices were for unintentional sins, but the whole system pointed to Christ.

Supporting texts:

Hebrews 10:1–4 — “The law is only a shadow… it can never… make perfect those who draw near.”
Hebrews 10:10–14 — “We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

The writer of Hebrews explicitly says the entire sacrificial system and priesthood (not just part of the law) has been replaced.

5. Galatians 3:19 refers to the Mosaic Law as a whole, not just sacrifices.

“It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.” (Galatians 3:19)

Rebuttal:
The “law” here means the entire Mosaic code, including the Ten Commandments. It was given after the promise to Abraham to define sin and prepare for Christ (Romans 5:20; Galatians 3:24).

Supporting texts:

Galatians 3:23–25 — “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
→ If the “law” were only sacrifices, then we would still be “under” the Ten Commandments — but Paul says “no longer under the law.”
Romans 10:4 — “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

Thus, Galatians 3 is not distinguishing two laws but showing the entire Mosaic system was temporary until Christ.

6. Romans 3:31 does not reinstate the Law of Moses.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”

Rebuttal:
Paul means faith fulfills the law’s righteous purpose, not that believers remain under its covenant authority. Through Christ, the law’s moral intent is written on our hearts (Romans 8:3–4; Jeremiah 31:33).

Supporting texts:

Matthew 5:17 — Christ “fulfilled” the law, not perpetuated the old covenant form.
Romans 8:2 — “The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.”

Faith “establishes” the law by achieving what it aimed at — righteousness through Christ (see Romans 10:4 again).

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New Posts

1. Romans 5:13 does not mean there is “no sin without law.”​

2. Sin is indeed “transgression of the law,” but that doesn’t mean the Mosaic Law still governs believers.​

3. The “two laws” framework is artificial.​

4. The Levitical sacrifices did indeed atone for unintentional sins, but that was temporary and symbolic.​

5. Galatians 3:19 refers to the Mosaic Law as a whole, not just sacrifices.​

6. Romans 3:31 does not reinstate the Law of Moses.​

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1. Romans 5:13 does not mean there is “no sin without law.”

2. Sin is indeed “transgression of the law,” but that doesn’t mean the Mosaic Law still governs believers.

3. The “two laws” framework is artificial.

4. The Levitical sacrifices did indeed atone for unintentional sins, but that was temporary and symbolic.

5. Galatians 3:19 refers to the Mosaic Law as a whole, not just sacrifices.

6. Romans 3:31 does not reinstate the Law of Moses.