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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Doxxing and Cancel Culture are Back on the Menu!

Doxxing isn't the answer. Content moderation of websites and platforms is the answer.

Doxxing is malicious behavior, as @Aaron112 points out, it's not consistent with Christian ethics.
As I stated on another thread, these website need to have labels warning viewers that the website is toxic hate. The music, tv and movie industry have put labels letting viewers know what type of content the particular media contains, why not websites?

And I've already gone down the road with the other thread, they claim it would be censuring. When people come together in a bipartisan effort to say, "hey this is offensive in nature" this shows what toxic is. And I'm not talking about debatable topics such as abortion, taxes, whether there's a God, LGBTQ issues, climate change dealings. I'm talking about wanting people dead topics.

I truly believe that on both sides of the political spectrum, people can't see bad stuff coming from their own side. They pooh pooh it away like, it was an honest mistake. With these bipartisan people coming together and labeling these websites, they are saying to others, "this is what we find very bad and toxic.

As a caveat though, this does not apply to God but it does apply to those who twist God's words to commit and speak evil.
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Will MAGA condemn Texan gerrymandering and sign a petition for all States and Feds to have independent Commissions handling redistributions?

Gerrymandering is almost as old as the hills. T
So is Monarchy. Is that what you want to head towards?
America gets a "FLAWED" democracy rating - and there are only 2 more categories to Full Autocracy.


to say Texas started it is naive in the extreme.
Context. Read the words around my other words. Texas started it this year. ( know the origins of gerrymandering are within just a few decades of your country forming - when governor Gerry redistricted his electorate into the "monstrous salamander."
1757897357139.png


I'm against gerrymandering, but when either party is in power they slide into using it.
There is no mention of California intending to use it until Texas threatened to.


I'm much more keen on getting rid of both big parties in favor of parties more attuned to the center.
Then you're for compulsory voting. Otherwise - how would achieve this?
Australia has compulsory voting which means politicians must appeal to the bored middle - not the frenzied edges.
When the system is voluntary - political dialogue must become a frenzied sideshow just to get those energised enough about the whole thing to vote!

They want their power and their ideologies even against the interests of those they are supposed to represent. They can't push their ideologies without power, so they need to maintain power by whatever means available. Murder works to silence opposing voices too.
And then lobbyists come in and corrupt the whole thing anyway. Big money gets involved.

Which is why I have a thread on Sortition - another method of democratic representation that bypasses all this for a lottery system much like a jury.
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Eric Trump on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and the Radical Left – “This Could Have Been the Greatest Mistake These People Have Ever Made” (VIDEO)

Do you think it’s helpful for the president’s son to further politicize Charlie’s death and try to attach it to millions of people not involved with the crime?
Another 20 something white male shooter, radicalized by fringe internet groups, but those really responsible are everyone who doesn’t support Trump. Do they even care about the man murdered, or is it just another political goldmine.
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How you can feel good without Jesus

Sorry, maybe I was a little bias. I got the feeling from earlier posts from people, that they struggle coping. Atleasts some do. Many talk about how they struggle alot even when believing in Jesus
And what struggle is that?

You mean life is still hard as a Christian? Yes, that's true. Sometimes Christians suffer more because of it. But what good is it if we gained the whole world, but lost our soul?
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Glad there is an apology for an immoral statement

I use to like listening to Brian Kilmeade but now after that statement, maybe FOX needs to toss him to the curve too. Unless I'm hearing that statement out of context, I think it was a stupid thing to say.
I, too, used to like him. He's gone downhill. And I couldn't believe he said that, it's a terrible thing to say. Glad he apologized.
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How you can feel good without Jesus

He is more that just a man, He is a God, and your whole existence is in His hands.


Is life about feeling good? And what is feeling good? For me is knowing that my sins have been atoned for by Jesus on the cross, and my name is written in the book of life.

One day, you will stand in front of God, and He will judge you. The only thing that will matter is your relationship with Christ.
God is good and that means He must punish all the evil. But He does not desire for us to go to hell. Out of His love, He sent He Son that whoever believes in Him and accepts Him as God and Saviour, will be forgiven and will enter everlasting life. Life without evil, pain, suffering and tears. Only good and love.
But whoever does not believe in Him, will be punished for their sins for eternity.

This is why who Jesus is for you is the most important thing in your life.

Sorry, maybe I was a little bias. I got the feeling from earlier posts from people, that they struggle coping. Atleasts some do. Many talk about how they struggle alot even when believing in Jesus
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How you can feel good without Jesus

I like Jesus, personally. I think he was a very kind, loving man.
He is more that just a man, He is a God, and your whole existence is in His hands.

LIke I said, you don`t have to feel bad, but you have to work at it. You can also do routines, not OCD, but similar. You Get the point, like folding towels in a certain way, or redo your closet. Jesus may be with you, but you can still feel bad.
Is life about feeling good? And what is feeling good? For me is knowing that my sins have been atoned for by Jesus on the cross, and my name is written in the book of life.

One day, you will stand in front of God, and He will judge you. The only thing that will matter is your relationship with Christ.
God is good and that means He must punish all the evil. But He does not desire for us to go to hell. Out of His love, He sent He Son that whoever believes in Him and accepts Him as God and Saviour, will be forgiven and will enter everlasting life. Life without evil, pain, suffering and tears. Only good and love.
But whoever does not believe in Him, will be punished for their sins for eternity.

This is why who Jesus is for you is the most important thing in your life.
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Great Music From the 60s

"Take Five" ~ Dave Brubeck

"Take Five" was first released as a promotional single on September 21, 1959, on the Dave Brubeck Quartet's album Time Out. The single initially had modest success but became a sleeper hit after being reissued for general release in May 1961, eventually becoming a major jazz standard and a significant crossover pop hit.

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This reminds me of music I heard growing up. My parents had that Dav Brubeck album.
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Me Living and Speaking Righteousness and Holiness

Acts 4:34-5:10 KJV

I Worship God My Father to recieve, when getting what I want and to lack nothing. I Worship God that is a church of generosity and to help the less fortunate. I Worhip God that brings Unity in My Prayers and Ministry Blessing Me Hebrews 10:25 KJV
2 Corinthians 9:7 KJV
Verse 5:1-11 My Interpetation: I Worship God the Only Word to Believe. We Believe the Bible to be inspired and only infallible written Word of God.

Does "equality" even matter to Jesus?

I never said we are not to be charitable. I am asking if every Christian is supposed to give up all as were those called to be his witnesses? There may come a time that we will be persecuted and this is upon us to do. Many people are being persecuted and being killed today in some places.
But again, in every instance are all supposed to not have any earthly goods?
In every instance? Who can say? It's like asking who will be first and who will be last in the kingdom of God. I know I haven't sold my house and given the money to the poor.

When the apostles heard Jesus talk about how hard it is for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven, they said, "Then who can be saved?" To that Jesus answered for men it's impossible, but for God anything is possible.

Matthew 19:
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
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What are we doing here?

Because most rely on their own wisdom, rather than letting God lead them to truth. Most people also rely on reading someone else's interpretation, carrying on answers that are taught and spread or being comfortable with reading something surface level, forming an opinion about it and leaving it there but with the possibility their initial idea could be wrong. The vast majority of people want information spoon fed, instead of actively delving into the word and trying to seek out truth themselves.

When talking to most people, the amount of gotquestions.org links I've gotten, or ones to just youtube videos is insane. We are told we have ONE teacher and that is Jesus. While hearing others opinions is good in a sense for correction, the main source should always be God himself. And sometimes that means accepting corrections that might be counter to whatever you've been taught. A lot of people also don't like being corrected.
What you say is good, but what of the verse that says there is no private interpretation? He gave us apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists and pastors?

We rely on Jesus and The Holy Spirit to show us to submit to teachers of the truth. If we relied merely on private interpretation, we risk being overwhelmed. Else why would God appoint shepherds?
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Glad there is an apology for an immoral statement

No, it wasn't any kind of humor.
I use to like listening to Brian Kilmeade but now after that statement, maybe FOX needs to toss him to the curve too. Unless I'm hearing that statement out of context, I think it was a stupid thing to say.
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What are we doing here?

What you perceive in your OP isn’t an issue for all as @Freth explained. The incompletion you noted may inspire you to seek insight from the sources you mentioned and others. And there’s those within the faith who find the scriptures more than enough for their purposes. It’s a matter of personal choice.

~bella
So we put our personal choice above Apostolic teaching. Does this not go against what Jesus and His Church teaches?
If any one come after me, let him deny his very self and begin to follow in my footsteps

How is that reconciled ?

You may plead ignorance, but the simple light of reason shows that we do not put ourselves above God and claim that we have understanding to “know better”. One would think that those that came before us and were closer to the original teaching would know better. Do you say that is not true?
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What are we doing here?

If that is true, then why all the division over what it means?
Because most rely on their own wisdom, rather than letting God lead them to truth. Most people also rely on reading someone else's interpretation, carrying on answers that are taught and spread or being comfortable with reading something surface level, forming an opinion about it and leaving it there but with the possibility their initial idea could be wrong. The vast majority of people want information spoon fed, instead of actively delving into the word and trying to seek out truth themselves.

When talking to most people, the amount of gotquestions.org links I've gotten, or ones to just youtube videos is insane. We are told we have ONE teacher and that is Jesus. While hearing others opinions is good in a sense for correction, the main source should always be God himself. And sometimes that means accepting corrections that might be counter to whatever you've been taught. A lot of people also don't like being corrected.
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Erika Kirk Delivers Powerful National Address, Says Movement Will Not Die

I don't know what you mean by a "presence on a screen", I've only ever seen him debate live in real time. He started as an 18 y.o. nobody, and built his organization through talent and hard work.
I suspect most of his critics on this forum only know what they've read and heard in their echo chambers about him and have no sense of who he really was or what he did
  • Agree
Reactions: Chesterton
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What are we doing here?

I agree. St. Irenaeus provides us with invaluable insight on the second century heresies and also provides important information on the Nicolaitan heresy and the connections between different Gnostic sects. He also provides vital information on the history of the development of the New Testament canon by insisting there are only four canonical Gospels.

Likewise, in refuting different heresies he also makes clear the doctrine of the early church apophatically.

Anyone who opposes his writings is likely engaging in knee-jerk anti-Catholicism, particularly since St. Irenaeus rebuked St. Victor the Bishop of Rome when he attempted to impose his will on the churches of Corinth and Asia Minor which were outside his jurisdiction.

Likewise the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Justin Martyr and St. Polycarp of Smyrna, who, like St. Irenaeus, were in apostolic succession from St. John, are invaluable.

I also reccommend the fourth century Panarion, by St. Epiphanios of Cyprus, which quotes St. Irenaeus when discussing heresies he covered, and the eighth century Fount of Wisdom by St. John of Damascus, which quotes the epitomes from St. Epiphanios, as these cover all the heresies experienced by the early church.

Many Orthodox believe Iconoclasm was the last original heresy and all subsequent heresies are simply renewals and recombinations of earlier heresies.

I greatly appreciate your insight The Liturgist, but for the sake of focus, I would ask that we limit the discussion to Polycarp and Iraneus.
Others can be discussed hopefully only as to how they reference these works

Thank you and peace be with you
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Ted Cruz torches Tim Kaine for describing God-given rights as 'very, very troubling'

You have it backward; study after study done on the subject of Islamic extremists and why they join extremist groups shows that the majority lack even a basic understanding of Islam. While it's true that many of the leaders of these organizations are well versed in Islam, they only use their extensive knowledge of Islam to deceive those who are ignorant in order to get them to join their ranks and carry out atrocities in the name of Islam.

From the UN:

UN study finds foreign fighters in Syria 'lack basic understanding of Islam'
“Most saw their religion in terms of justice and injustice rather than in terms of piety and spirituality,” said the authors of the report, which was based on interviews with 43 people from 12 countries.
Religious belief seems to have played a minimal role in the motivation of this sample,” the report found, saying economic factors had become more important as terrorist groups promised wages, homes and even wives.

From MI5 in the UK:

Research, carried out by MI5's behavioural science unit, based on in-depth case studies on "several hundred individuals known to be involved in, or closely associated with, violent extremist activity" ranging from fundraising to planning suicide bombings in Britain found that far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.

In the Philippines:

Cocoy Tulawie, a politician and member of an influential family in Sulu, said this has long been the norm and local government officials have been in connivance with Abu Sayyaf for decades.
He said younger members are ignorant of Islam, yet they are extremely fanatical about representing it. Their version of Islam is flawed simply because the dawas - or Islamic schools - are usually in the main towns and they do not get the chance to study the Quran "properly".
That ignorance, he said, is what makes them dangerous.



And a couple more reports:

Thousands of leaked Islamic State documents reveals most of its recruits from its earliest days came with only the most basic knowledge of Islam. A little more than 3,000 of these documents included the recruits’ knowledge of Shariah, the system that interprets into law verses from the Quran and “hadith” — the sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad.
According to the documents, which were acquired by the Syrian opposition site Zaman al-Wasl and shared with the AP, 70 percent of recruits were listed as having just “basic” knowledge of Shariah — the lowest possible choice. Around 24 percent were categorized as having an “intermediate” knowledge, with just 5 percent considered advanced students of Islam.
The group preys on this religious ignorance, allowing extremists to impose a brand of Islam constructed to suit its goal of maximum territorial expansion and carnage as soon as recruits come under its sway.


From Cradle to Grave: The Lifecycle of Foreign Fighters in Iraq and Syria

Combating Terrorism Center at West Point United States Military Academy

Less than 15% of fighters coded by religious background had any formal religious education. Additionally, individuals who made the decision to become a foreign fighter tended not to be lifelong strict adherents to Islam, but also rarely appeared to be recent converts. Those who were Muslims since childhood (but not overly religious), as well as those who were converts (but not too recent), were well-represented in the data.

One other way to parse out the role of religion is to try to assess the level of each fighter’s religious education. In an attempt to code religious education, we asked coders to code both formal types of religious education (at a madrasa or other religious institute of higher education) as well as informal types (indications that they had been part of a study group or sought religious guidance at a local mosque). Much like the data related to the coding of an individual’s conversion to the Islamic faith, the sample in the case of religious education was also very small (n = 203). The results of this breakdown can be seen in Figure 3.9, which shows that a small minority of the foreign fighters had any formal religious education (less than 15%), while the majority of them had no religious guidance (or just basic guidance) before their travel.

Both findings indicate that the majority of the foreign fighters had limited familiarity with the tenets of the Islamic faith. This is consistent with the findings from the CTC’s earlier report, which showed that very small numbers of foreign fighters reported having any religious education and that approximately 70% of fighters reported having a basic knowledge of Shari`a law.

Given these findings, it seems that the ability of the foreign fighters to develop an emotional and cognitive attachment to the jihadi community is based on other factors, which may be more related to cultural and political dimensions of their identities as Muslims in non-Muslim societies than religious triggers. The ability of jihadi groups to recruit foreign fighters is thus based on creating a narrative that is focused on the ongoing deprivation of Muslims, both in specific Western polities, as well as in the international arena. While convincing them that joining the jihadi movement based on specific religious imperatives may be important, it seems to play a secondary role. Moreover, our findings also correspond with primary sources indicating that jihadi groups in general prefer to recruit individuals who have limited religious education since they are less capable of critically scrutinizing the jihadi narrative and ideology, in addition to being less familiar with contrasting Islamic schools of thought.

While it is difcult to ascertain whether the recruiter or potential foreign fighter initiates the connection, it seems that religious figures play a relatively minimal role in this process, a fact that provides support for previous findings indicating that political and cultural aspects of jihadi ideology play a greater role in the radicalization of foreign fighters than strictly religious ones.



As can be seen in the above articles, Most recruits of Islamic extremists groups are not well versed in Islam and ignorance of Islam is a common theme.



The Muslims that were being spoken to in the Qur'an lived in a different culture, at a different point in time, and were facing unique situations. You can't read the Qur'an from a modern perspective, you have to read it through a historical lens, if not, you will continue to misinterpret what it's saying.

The violent verses found in the Qur'an don't abrogate the verses of peace because of the context they were written in. There are certain situations where the verses of peace apply, and others where the verses of violence apply, therefore, each verse has a specific context and application. In other words, each verse in the Qur'an is to be applied to its appropriate situation. For example, when Qur'an 9:5 says "When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush," it is dealing with a specific event at a point in history when Meccan pagans were breaking their peace treaties and declaring war on the Muslims, so that verse would not negate the peaceful verses in the Qur'an since it is very specific to it's intent and the point in history it was to be applied.

Textual and historical context are key to interpreting religious scriptures, and if someone reads them without knowing the backstory, they will almost certainly misinterpret their true meaning.






Muhammad and his companions were warriors. If we look at Muhammad and his actions through a historical lens, while they appear bad from our modern perspective, they were normal for the point in history at which he lived. In other words, he was no worse than anyone else who was in a position of leadership in his day, whether they be Jew, Christian, Muslim, or Pagan.

The verses found in the Qur'an were revealed during specific battles that took place during the 7th century. There's not a command found anywhere in the Qur'an that instructs Muslims to kill non-believers forever; once the battles during the days of Muhammad were over, that was it. That point in history and those being spoken to have long passed, and the verses commanding that unbelievers be killed or converted to Islam are no longer applicable to Muslims today.



Since there aren't millions of Muslims going around killing people, we know this statement isn't true. If Islam taught as you believe it does, there would be countless Muslims taking whatever weapons they could get their hands on to kill non-believers every single day in every corner of the globe. This is not happening. Instead, what we see is Muslims living in peace and harmony with their neighbors, working and playing together with non-Muslims, fighting against violence and extremism in tandem with non-Muslims, and working alongside non-Muslims in their communities to address poverty, homelessness, and other injustices through charitable giving and advocacy.
While I lack the time to address everything you've brought up, I will point out that you can't use the "different time" with regard to the actions of Muhammad given his role in the religion. He wasn't just a warrior, he was a warlord. And with the hadith every time a moral situation crops up, his advice is the opposite of what is moral. As an example is the case where his warriors wanted to r*pe their captives, but some hesitated because many of the women they had captured were married. Then an ayat was "revealed" to him saying that slave women were fair game even if they were married.
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What are we doing here?

I believe these works are worth reviewing and would be interested in others opinions on them, whether agree or disagree and why?

I agree. St. Irenaeus provides us with invaluable insight on the second century heresies and also provides important information on the Nicolaitan heresy and the connections between different Gnostic sects. He also provides vital information on the history of the development of the New Testament canon by insisting there are only four canonical Gospels.

Likewise, in refuting different heresies he also makes clear the doctrine of the early church apophatically.

Anyone who opposes his writings is likely engaging in knee-jerk anti-Catholicism, particularly since St. Irenaeus rebuked St. Victor the Bishop of Rome when he attempted to impose his will on the churches of Corinth and Asia Minor which were outside his jurisdiction.

Likewise the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Justin Martyr and St. Polycarp of Smyrna, who, like St. Irenaeus, were in apostolic succession from St. John, are invaluable.

I also reccommend the fourth century Panarion, by St. Epiphanios of Cyprus, which quotes St. Irenaeus when discussing heresies he covered, and the eighth century Fount of Wisdom by St. John of Damascus, which quotes the epitomes from St. Epiphanios, as these cover all the heresies experienced by the early church.

Many Orthodox believe Iconoclasm was the last original heresy and all subsequent heresies are simply renewals and recombinations of earlier heresies.
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How you can feel good without Jesus

While doing things to keep you occupied is good, Jesus offers peace that surpasses all understanding. He promises that when you walk with him, when he teaches you and guides you, you will grow. One of the fruits of the spirit is peace, so its a promise that you can grow in that fruit. Gods peace isn't so easily fleeting to where you need to learn coping skills like exercise or learning to sing, so I invite you to delve more into his scripture, ask him to guide you to understanding and help you grow in peace :heart:
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