DaisyDay said:

If the sole circumstance that changed is that it is now you instead of me, or vice versus, then the problem is hypocrisy.

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As a traditional conservative, I had hoped that following President Trump’s departure from office, the party would return to pre-Trump era conservatism characterized by greater moderation and centrist ideas, thereby fostering unity and compromise with others for greater good. However, that hope appears to be fading each day. It seems that both conservatism and the Republican Party are increasingly losing influence.

After the passage of the Civil Rights Act, the Republican Party lost African American voters for generations; since then, the GOP has never received more than 20% of the African American vote. In 2024, President Trump achieved nearly 45% support among Hispanic voters—primarily due to the Democratic Party’s inability to fulfill promises made to the Hispanic community. Nevertheless, the mass deportation policies implemented under President Trump have caused significant concern among Hispanic Americans, demonstrating that when Republicans advocate for "mass deportation," it results in families being separated and homes disrupted. This experience has likely diminished future support from Hispanic voters, suggesting that, much like with African American voters, the Republican Party risks losing Hispanic voter support for generations to come.

Since 2010, the Republican Party has focused on consolidating a single demographic and its interests. However, this group's share of the electorate is declining and is projected to lose majority status in America in near future.

Over the last 15 years, the percentage of people identifying as Christian has dropped by 17%, further weakening the coalition the Republicans once relied on.

Another emerging concern for Republicans is Pope Leo’s redefinition of the term "pro-life." Today, leading Catholic authorities are directly raising questions such as, “Can you be pro-life if you support mass deportation?” In the near future, mainstream Protestant communities in America will be forced to address this issue. Although not all Protestants may shift their perspective, some are likely to reassess their views. This could lead to divisions among pro-life supporters: one group may continue to advocate strictly for the protection of unborn children and opposition to abortion, while others may broaden their understanding of pro-life principles to include social justice issues—such as supporting the poor and caring for those in need—as part of the biblical concept of the “sanctity of life.” As a result, Republicans risk losing another segment of their interest groups in the near future.

Yet, current observations suggest that the Republican Party appears unconcerned with prevailing trends, shifting demographics, or changes in religious affiliation within the United States. They do not seem to recognize many groups distancing themselves from the party or the implications these changes may have for their future.

Apple Sky said:

And you are ?

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I don't understand or know much about science, but, as I said to you before, I have no reason to mistrust the experts.
I believe I have a healthier approach to Scripture than you do, yes.

I'm also willing to reconsider my position in the face of real evidence - something which you have said you will not do.

Delvianna, did you understand my hint ? Another hint, church members are called the elect by Jesus and the Apostles and also in the prophets. As far as I know no other people were called the elect except ancient Israel. GOD did chose ancient Israel as the elect of the old covenant but Christians are the elect in the new covenant. In times past, before Jesus, GOD worked with people from Able to Christ. Remember there were saints raised from the dead when Jesus was thus indicating there were indeed saints before Jesus. Matthew 27:52-53 This passage creates a mystery for many people. Hebrews 1:1-2 it was only in the last days that GOD now only works through Jesus but before this GOD worked through the prophets to the “fathers” , this would be the root of the olive tree in Romans 11 and the people mentioned in Hebrews 11 . Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it and was glad. Abraham and all the people in Hebrews 11 saw things afar off, Hebrews 11:13 and GOD even preached the gospel to Abraham, Galatians 3:8 We are of the same faith as Abraham except we are on the other side of Christ, they knew what we know before Christ and we after Christ, but its still the same Christ. Remember, the church is built on the foundation of the prophets and the Apostles, Christ the cornerstone, and this entire structure is a the dwelling place for GODS spirit. This is what I believe GOD has taught me through the mediator Jesus. According to what I read in scripture GODS Holy Spirit is the only teacher of HIS church through the mediator Jesus Christ as Jesus said. John 6:44-45 Isaiah 54:13 1 John 2:27 John 14:26 John 16:13 Even though these words are very plain why do so many not believe them ? The warning of a great deception has been given that in the last days perilous times would come. There are numerous verses of scripture that tell us this. However, if only GODS spirit through Jesus is our teacher then it would not be possible to deceive the elect.

rambot said:

What a stupid argument. Are you seriously arguing that nobody on the left has any spiritual fruits?

This is the distraction you make when you can't defend the rapist pedophile and list any of his spiritual fruits?


It's tell you can't list any.

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Open a thread on it and I'll join you-
This thread is about the shocking admitting of lawfare towards the President as a political tactic

One we all knew.

Strong in Him said:

You don't understand science or Scripture; you are in no position to argue.

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And you are ?

Phil G said:

The Bible says the sun delayed going down. Not it delayed its circuit.

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I know what the Bible says.

So the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Vambram said:

That court is wrong and they were overruled by a higher court.

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And other federal courts have also ruled against Trump use of the Guard in both Portland and Chicago. That case is awaiting action by SCOTUS.

ThatRobGuy said:

As far as the "real value of work", I think that goes hand in hand with the higher ed attitudes I talked about as I think one drives the other to a substantial degree.

The value assigned to many jobs is precisely because of the manufactured association of "this job should pay more because it requires college in order to be able to do"

Which, if being applied properly and pragmatically, would make perfect sense. Nobody's going to question why an orthopedic surgeon makes more money than the check-out clerk at the grocery store. Obviously that surgeon did need years of advanced education to do that job.

However, with where we're at now...

We (as a society) try to post-hoc inject that rationale into things where it really doesn't make sense.

For instance, a car salesman vs. an ad exec for a marketing firm. Those two skillsets (in terms of scarcity and education required to do the job) actually aren't all that different, and a "people person" with good verbal and presentation skills can do either without a college degree.

However, the average car salesman (with a few years under their belt and steady sales record) will earn about $70k/year. Whereas, an ad account exec is often north of six figures, and we justify that based on "well, the latter should be worth more because you need to have a college degree to do it"

And it even happens at a micro level...where we (as a society, not us personally) assign arbitrary "value" to the work if it's one college degree over another. Where a person with a "fancy degree" is seen as having more valuable work output than the person with the "lesser" degree.

The company I've worked for scrapped the college requirement in favor of certs and on-the-job training (unfortunately long after I started working there), but speaking as a person who was part of hiring decisions.

You'd get the kids with a computer science degree from a Case Western or Baldwin Wallace, and they would get better starting offer that the kids from Akron U or Stark State...when in reality, there's wasn't any noticeable difference between them, as they were all extremely green and neither was as good as a person who'd been actually doing the job for a few years.

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That^ is a great example of what Im talking about: how uneven bargaining positions allow employers exaggerated leeway to set the prices on workers labor. This allows irrelevant factors to creep into hiring criteria. (Relevant factors being the real money value of workers contribution.)

Also in your example, dont neglect the role perceived class plays in college degree requirements. Theres this notion that people who havent gone to college arent "like us."

rambot said:

PErhaps but CERTAINLY that is not up to us to decide.

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No one did

Dan1988 said:

I think you should read Romans 16:17-19 it speaks about those like yourself who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the the doctrine I have learned.
You contradict the gospel of the Lord Jesus, by rejecting the new covenant and trying to mix the old and new together, thus creating another gospel.

You falsely claim that "God is love" but I gave you verses to show you that God is also hate, but you rejected them because you only believe those scriptures which you can use to support your denomination.

Your always referring to verses which exhort "born again believers to do good works", but you try to apply them as requirements to fulfill, in order to earn salvation. You're trying to present a hybrid gospel, whereby we are saved by grace and works.

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I didn’t know saying, “God is love” ( 1 John 4:8) is false. You keep saying that I am putting the Old Testament over the New by mentioning the commandments ( like Matthew 7:12 per Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10, per Romans 3:1-14?).

Yet you keep saying “God is hate” or is “also hate” in your revised mentions. Every verse that you can try to claim this from is from the Old Testament which you say I sm muddling with the New. The only thing God “hates” in the NT are the “deeds” ( Revelation 2:6) & “doctrines ( Revelation 2:15) of the Nicolatians. God ( the Lord Jesus Christ here) doesn’t say He hates the Nicolatians themselves. This is recorded by the Apostle John who also wrote “God is love” ( 1 John 4:8). 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 isn’t a hallmark card.

Paul speaks of the problem of works in Romans 3 based on boasting & exclusive, self righteousness towards the Gentiles ( Romans 3:27-31). Paul adds circumcision to this in Romans 4 by Abraham who lived by faith yet was the father of circumcision ( Romans 4:11-13) because some early circumcised Christians were insisting all had to be circumcised.

Living by faith involves living by the Lord’s commandments not assuming we can keep them but trusting in Him by them ( He promises us the Holy Spirit to counsel us in this per John 14:15-18). When we depart this earthly life salvation is ( Ephesians 2:8-9) while we are here, we are living life as Paul tells us in Romans 13:1-14, per Ephesians 2:8-10). These things should happen as a living witness in some form ( Matthew 5:14-20). We are warned to take care in living by faith ( Matthew 7:15-23). What are we supposed to be otherwise in daily life, stiff boards walking around in straight jackets?

dlamberth said:

Sounds like Panenthiesm.

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That's weird, innit? I mean, is life alive?

Apple Sky said:

It doesn't look as if the sun is moving across the sky, it actually does move across the sky & runs it's circuit.

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No, it doesn't.

You don't understand science or Scripture; you are in no position to argue.

concretecamper said:

What? Objectively speaking, some are worse than others.

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PErhaps but CERTAINLY that is not up to us to decide.

Also, my old employer showed us video of an employee getting into an accident, at a safety meeting, and everyone laughed and mocked the employee from the video, calling him an idiot, stupid, etc.. That may have been illegal of my employer to do. But... Rules for thee, not for me, and if anyone wants to complain, they'll just deny it, and you'll be blackballed from the industry.

Delvianna said:

If the heart beat stops and by your hand, that isn't "murder?"

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1) Nope. Not if it's little more than an conglomeration of cells. Not to me.
2) Also, out of curiousity, is your argument then that BEFORE a heartbeat, it's NOT "murder"?

Delvianna said:

I'll even take it a step backwards... The DNA is completely separate from the mother and since God creates all life, (I knit you in your mothers womb) you're essentially saying the DNA that God took from the father and mother and merged together doesn't qualify as life to you... I mean, you are welcome to your opinions, but I'm just saying God's stance is different and justifying death is just not something he's going to be okay with either.

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Whoa. Back up. You just provide your logic and then confidently said it's "God's stance".
I'm saying it does not yet qualify as a life, that's correct. I view life as more than a random collection of DNA.

Delvianna said:

And Grace is not a license to live in sin.

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I agree.

Delvianna said:

The point of the Holy Spirit is to guide us, correct us and bring us as close as we could possibly get to being "Christ like" and not to compromise on sin, allow sin or endorse it either.

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Sure.

Delvianna said:

Everyone accounts for themselves but since Christ said murderers won't inherit the kingdom of God, I would really take a step back and make sure you're right because even if you never are involved in an abortion, endorsing it and telling others is okay, makes you complicit in that sin, which means God will have something to say about it.

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As I've mentioned I don't believe it is murder nor do in ANY WAY, believe the 10 commandments refers to abortion.

We've carved out a place for solidiers in war to "murder"...


All this said, thank you for a more thought filled response!

zippy2006 said:

The fundamental problem is a kind of "Federalism" where the federal government has way too much power. The locus of power needs to shift to the state and local level. Neither party is willing to cede their federal power, but the Republicans are much more likely to do so, especially post-Trump.

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Im not sure how that relates exactly to the economy.

My off the cuff sense is the more that theres 50 different sets of rules across the land for how business can operate, the more friction and waste there is in everything business does.

rambot said:

And you are not as bad as the others I guess right?

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What? Objectively speaking, some are worse than others.

concretecamper said:

Some worse than others

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And you are not as bad as the others I guess right?

Welcome to CF!

rambot said:

ARguably, most people are.

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Some worse than others

I doubt it will happen. My opinion only.

Lord have mercy on your persecuted Church!

rambot said:

I gotta tell you that "Democracy Medicine" is 100% NOT how I want I want to be diagnosed or treated.

Too many people's feelings and not enough medical facts informing that.

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Many of us on OBOB are 100% opposed to abortion because the Church is. It’s murder of the most innocent and not health care.