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The Reality of Free Will

I'd say conscience reflects beliefs. What about addressing my question?
They learn it. Objective knowledge is dictated by reality. <-facts.
What we think matters, because it matters what we believe, because we reason upon what we believe to be true, because if we reason upon something false as true our reasoning ends in a contradiction.
"Paul made a contrast between one person being deceived, and the other not". <- Look at the context, Paul is making a contrast between the man and the woman with the intention of making the case for why the man should have the greater authority.
"That points out that one person - Adam - made a choice to do what was wrong, without being misled". <-This is inaccurate because (1) it's out of context. (2) Paul did not say Adam made a deliberate choice to do wrong.
Only one of these statements is logical:
(1) The person who distrusts the almighty should have authority.
(2) The person who trusts the almighty should have authority.

What the Text Actually Says​

  • Greek syntax: “Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, fell into transgression.”
  • The verb ἠπατήθη (“was deceived”) is simply negated for Adam. It does NOT ADD “therefore Adam sinned deliberately.”
  • Paul’s statement is descriptive of Genesis: the serpent spoke with Eve, not Adam. Eve was deceived; Adam was not.
  • Nowhere in scripture does it explicitly say “Adam sinned deliberately.” That is an interpretive inference, not a textual statement.
  • If Paul meant Adam’s sin was deliberate, then the logic collapses:
    • The one who deliberately distrusted God would be more culpable, not less.
    • Authority cannot be grounded in deliberate rebellion. Even a child could see that the one who knowingly disobeys God is less fit for authority than the one misled.



It is wrong to presume Adam and Eve knew what a lie is; It's logical to assume that without any knowledge of good and evil they only knew how to trust.

With the stipulation that when I say, "TEND to take it out of context", I mean some theologians tend to interpret that Paul is inferring that Adam was not misled and subsequently disobeyed of his own initiative; and that interpretation ends in the contradiction of reasoning.<- This would be in contrast to believing Paul is inferring that the man shouldn't be taught by the woman because the man was persuaded by the woman and was misled by the woman. <-- This reasoning does not end in a contradiction of reasoning. To be clear the contradiction is that the one who knowingly distrusts God should be in authority.

Taken out of context: Ellicott: "The argument here is a singular one—Adam and Eve both sinned, but Adam was not deceived. He sinned, quite aware all the while of the magnitude of the sin he was voluntarily committing. Eve, on the other hand, was completely, thoroughly deceived". Ellicott

Here is one taken in context: Chrysostom: "For the woman taught the man once, and made him guilty of disobedience, and wrought our ruin. Therefore because she made a bad use of her power over the man, or rather her equality with him, God made her subject to her husband. "Thy desire shall be to thy husband?" (Genesis 3:16.) This had not been said to her before".

"But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me." But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, "she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as "not deceived." For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal. Again, it is not said of the man, that he "saw the tree was good for food," but of the woman, and that she "did eat, and gave it to her husband": so that he transgressed, not captivated by appetite, but merely from the persuasion of his wife. The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account therefore he saith, let her not teach. But what is it to other women, that she suffered this?"
Chrysostom

We can use the term deceived, or beguiled, or deluded.

(1) The serpent questions God’s command -> “Did God really say…?”
(2) The serpent introduced a doubt to the innocent->The serpent casts suspicion on God’s word, making Eve question whether she understood correctly.
(3) The serpent gives a false assurance -> The serpent assures her she will not die, directly contradicting God’s warning.
(4) The serpent tempts her with gain -> The serpent says she will gain wisdom and godlike knowledge if she eats.
Eve had probably never felt doubt before. I think the serpent introduced doubt into her experience for the first time, and that’s how she was deceived.
Probably because it's probable. Remarkable because one would think it would be corroborated somewhere else in scripture if Adam had not been misled by his wife.
Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived (1 Tim 2:14).
Adam chose to sin with her.
I've already stated that it's speculation. The fact that one interpretation ends in a contradiction of reasoning however is not speculative. And that happens to be the speculation in the OP.

Are you ignoring other possibilities that conflict with your interpretation?

“In scripture, we never find ‘free will’ as a noun -> a thing humans possess. What we find are adverbs like ‘willingly’ or ‘voluntarily,’ describing how an action is done. To import the secular noun ‘free will’ into the Bible is to add a concept that isn’t there.”
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Why do people hate ICE...

'Irretrievably destroyed': Trump admin says 13 days' worth of video footage inside ICE facility at center of class action lawsuit 'cannot be produced' in line with court's discovery order

oops!

Specifically, the lawsuit alleges that when detainees requested "basic necessities" from ICE, officers responded "with threats, abuse, or contempt." The filing goes on to allege many detainees report "being belittled or ignored by officers when they asked for food and water."
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Street Preaching

I used to believe they were nagging people
I have been told I am "yelling" and was seen screaming in people's faces that they need to get right with God. But there could be another man who was being obnoxious. And you need to do what God has you doing, and yes some counterfeit might be out there to give you a bad name. However, God guarantees He will produce His results of His ministry.

While ones might say I am bothering people by yelling near them, there have been ones who would walk right up by my face while I was speaking and maneuvering to keep clear of people's up-close ears. Even while I would maneuver, ones would still come right up to me and pass me. One time, a guy stood right behind me; I asked if he wanted anything, and he said he was listening; so I kept on.
always worth it even if it is annoying people.
People can object and others might stop to talk with me. Always, talking personally can take priority. Once, I was preaching in a deluge of rain, and a woman stood there with an umbrella until I was done.
Some people do better evangelizing and "preaching" in one on one conversations.
Yes, personally. Do what God has you doing.
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Am I Saved?

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 3:6-10
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

I read this last night after a weekend of heavy drinking and eating.

This is not a habitual thing for me. I have drank less than 10 times this year but I have been struggling with overeating due to heavy restriction of calories, since the beginning of this year, in an effort to lose weight.

I have lost about 50 pounds and am only 10 pounds away from goal weight. But, the stress of it all (turning away all social engagements, business engagements, family time etc) causes me to overeat when I start to eat any sugary foods and drinking magnifies the craves and reduces all inhibition and self-control.

So, to my way of thinking, I am not only drinking to excess but then engaging in gluttony, or self sabotage or, I don't really know 100% what the exact sin would be but the action of drinking too much and then overeating seems sinful. Also, I don't view these things as glorifying God or being a light to unbelievers (my family) so it would seem to me that I am indeed sinning.

In an effort to understand, I read the above verses last night.

With regards to 1 John 1:8-10, I believe I am a sinner, have confessed my sins, asked for forgiveness and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior.

With regards to 1 John 3:6-10, sin is of the devil, and 'No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are,'

Am I truly saved then if I continue to sin? Am I sinning? I have prayed and acknowledged that I'm not sure about either of these points but, really, I am sure I am saved because I have done what the Bible says saves us according to Romans 10:9-13:

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

Any and all help is appreciated. On one hand, I feel broken hearted. I certainly do not want to be of the devil and I want to live my life for Christ and have assurance that I will be with Him when the time comes. On the other hand, I feel like I'm misunderstanding something and overreacting. On the other hand, I feel like I could want that to be the case because the consequences are devastating and I wouldn't know what the point of anything was anymore...

If you could help me, I would be forever grateful, thank you and God bless.
It's very good that you acknowledged you sins and you are seeking help.
Perhaps you are not associated with any Christian congregation that has a body of overseers that you can reach out to. Is that the case? James 5:14, 15
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call near the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, having anointed him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one ailing, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he might be one having committed sins, it will be forgiven him.
The shepherd are provided in his congregations to care for the flock, and to look after individual sheep that may be hurt, or in danger of becoming lost. They "watch over your souls". Hebrews 13:17

Without the assistance of the shepherds, a sheep can be lost entirely... especially if it is hurt.
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Kiwi in Tokyo – what’s the view from your window this morning?

I’m a NZ-born believer living in a tiny Tokyo apartment; the sunrise just crept over the neighbourhood roofs and made me homesick for big skies and real-coffee chat. So, worldwide friends, hit reply with one sentence: what can you see outside your window right now—and does it make you smile, sigh, or pray? Photos welcome (but no pressure). Let’s swap snapshots and small talk that might grow into bigger friendship. Grace, bob121 – Tokyo

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Fear, pain and hunger: The dire impact of shutting down USAID in Africa, leaving a vacuum for China and Russia

He's like the fireman who is an arsonist. He causes the problems then tries to take credit for attempting to solve them.

Why are people still taking this idiot seriously!
He's certainly not responsible for ALL the problems in Sudan, but he contributed to the humanitarian crisis by folding his arms and doing nothing about it. Food, doctors and medicine are desperately needed? That's why we were sending them some, until you stopped it, shouting AMERICA FIRST!
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Donald Trump Hits CNN with $475 Million Defamation Lawsuit

Trump-appointed judge torches former president's lawsuit against CNN

In his ruling Singhal wrote that the comments were purely opinions and not statements of fact "and therefore not actionable."

Well this case is now closed. We are far better under Biden.
It's not over yet!

Trump-Appointed Judges Reject His ‘Meritless’ and ‘Unpersuasive’ Arguments

Two federal appeals court judges appointed by President Donald Trump rejected his arguments as "meritless" and "unpersuasive" when agreeing with a lower courts decision to dismiss Trump's $475 million defamation lawsuit against CNN for its coverage of the riots at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.

The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals Judges Adalberto Jordan, Kevin Newsom, and Elizabeth L. Branch issued the decision affirming the lower court's ruling on Tuesday.

OK, now it's over. Or is it?
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Wes Huff Shares What He Believes Has Led to so Many Faith Deconstructions

In an interview on “100 Huntley Street,” apologist Wes Huff discussed what he believes has contributed to the recent wave of faith deconstruction stories.
“100 Huntley Street” is a Canadian television show that “tells the amazing stories of people who have had life-changing encounters with God,” according to its website.
Wes Huff is the vice president of Apologetics Canada. He is currently working on a Ph.D. in New Testament at the University of Toronto’s Wycliffe College, and he regularly posts YouTube videos discussing theology and apologetics.
Faith deconstruction has been a subject of conversation among evangelicals for several years, as a number of high-profile Christian influencers have shared about changes in their faith. Some, including YouTubers Rhett and Link and pastor and author Josh Harris, have left the Christian faith entirely.
Faith is not a human construction.

What can be de-constructed is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith.
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The Reality of Free Will

Would you say one's conscience gives them subjective knowledge?
I'd say conscience reflects beliefs. What about addressing my question?
How does one gain objective knowledge?
They learn it. Objective knowledge is dictated by reality. <-facts.
What we think isn't relevant.
Paul made a contrast between one person being deceived, and the other not.
That points out that one person - Adam - made a choice to do what was wrong, without being misled.
When someone is not misled into doing something wrong, but they do it, is it deliberate - done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional, and willful - done in a manner which was intended?
What we think matters, because it matters what we believe, because we reason upon what we believe to be true, because if we reason upon something false as true our reasoning ends in a contradiction.



"Paul made a contrast between one person being deceived, and the other not". <- Look at the context, Paul is making a contrast between the man and the woman with the intention of making the case for why the man should have the greater authority.

"That points out that one person - Adam - made a choice to do what was wrong, without being misled". <-This is inaccurate because (1) it's out of context. (2) Paul did not say Adam made a deliberate choice to do wrong.

Only one of these statements is logical:
(1) The person who distrusts the almighty should have authority.
(2) The person who trusts the almighty should have authority.

What the Text Actually Says​

  • Greek syntax: “Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, fell into transgression.”
  • The verb ἠπατήθη (“was deceived”) is simply negated for Adam. It does NOT ADD “therefore Adam sinned deliberately.”
  • Paul’s statement is descriptive of Genesis: the serpent spoke with Eve, not Adam. Eve was deceived; Adam was not.
  • Nowhere in scripture does it explicitly say “Adam sinned deliberately.” That is an interpretive inference, not a textual statement.
  • If Paul meant Adam’s sin was deliberate, then the logic collapses:
    • The one who deliberately distrusted God would be more culpable, not less.
    • Authority cannot be grounded in deliberate rebellion. Even a child could see that the one who knowingly disobeys God is less fit for authority than the one misled.


It is wrong to presume Adam and Eve knew what a lie is; It's logical to assume that without any knowledge of good and evil they only knew how to trust.
Can you provide a reference where some theologians take this out of context.
With the stipulation that when I say, "TEND to take it out of context", I mean some theologians tend to interpret that Paul is inferring that Adam was not misled and subsequently disobeyed of his own initiative; and that interpretation ends in the contradiction of reasoning.<- This would be in contrast to believing Paul is inferring that the man shouldn't be taught by the woman because the man was persuaded by the woman and was misled by the woman. <-- This reasoning does not end in a contradiction of reasoning. To be clear the contradiction is that the one who knowingly distrusts God should be in authority.

Taken out of context: Ellicott: "The argument here is a singular one—Adam and Eve both sinned, but Adam was not deceived. He sinned, quite aware all the while of the magnitude of the sin he was voluntarily committing. Eve, on the other hand, was completely, thoroughly deceived". Ellicott

Here is one taken in context: Chrysostom: "For the woman taught the man once, and made him guilty of disobedience, and wrought our ruin. Therefore because she made a bad use of her power over the man, or rather her equality with him, God made her subject to her husband. "Thy desire shall be to thy husband?" (Genesis 3:16.) This had not been said to her before".

"But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me." But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, "she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as "not deceived." For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal. Again, it is not said of the man, that he "saw the tree was good for food," but of the woman, and that she "did eat, and gave it to her husband": so that he transgressed, not captivated by appetite, but merely from the persuasion of his wife. The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account therefore he saith, let her not teach. But what is it to other women, that she suffered this?"
Chrysostom
Tricked into disobeying God?
We can use the term deceived, or beguiled, or deluded.
How was Eve tricked?
(1) The serpent questions God’s command -> “Did God really say…?”
(2) The serpent introduced a doubt to the innocent->The serpent casts suspicion on God’s word, making Eve question whether she understood correctly.
(3) The serpent gives a false assurance -> The serpent assures her she will not die, directly contradicting God’s warning.
(4) The serpent tempts her with gain -> The serpent says she will gain wisdom and godlike knowledge if she eats.

Eve had probably never felt doubt before. I think the serpent introduced doubt into her experience for the first time, and that’s how she was deceived.
Probably? :smile:
Remarkable? Why... because you think something you believe is probably true?
Probably because it's probable. Remarkable because one would think it would be corroborated somewhere else in scripture if Adam had not been misled by his wife.
Could have?
Let's be clear... If you think you are not speculating, please check the dictionary for the word speculate.
Then let's end this conversation, if speculation is all you think we have to go on, because it's no use using the scriptures if nothing can be established from them.
I've already stated that it's speculation. The fact that one interpretation ends in a contradiction of reasoning however is not speculative. And that happens to be the speculation in the OP.
Possible?
Assuming?
Might have?
Okay, moving on.
Are you ignoring other possibilities that conflict with your interpretation?
You just said

Then you, in the same breath, turn around and say

"Such a will" is a noun, which I don't see mentioned in Hebrews 6:4-6
Unless you are referring to "sinning willfully" mentioned in Hebrews 10:26, which is describing having the ability to willingly sin or not - that is choosing of one's own accord, or one's own free will, either to refrain from practicing sin, or practicing sin... is actually free will.

It's not describing a will. It's not a noun. It's describing a voluntary action, which is exactly an adjective. Which is exactly what I started with.
The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).

If a person can refrain from sinning willfully or give into sinning willfully - one or the other, that person has free will.
Why do you not accept that?
The point is that the Op is using a secular humanist philosophical meaning of 'free will' -> a noun. In scripture, we never find 'free will' as a noun -> a thing humans possess. What we find are adverbs like ‘willingly’ or ‘voluntarily,’ describing how an action is done. To import the secular noun ‘free will’ into the Bible is to add a concept that isn’t there.”
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CNN Dem Panelist Shocks Jennings with Major Admission on Lawfare Against Trump

The vast majority of television I watch is sports,. Specially college. Pregame, post-game, and halftime you have about 4 or 5 people on a panel who just say things because they are paid for that segment to say things. No matter if it's right, wrong or indifferent. They should be taken with a large grain of salt. For anyone to not understand come bankruptcies, Trump Org fraud, Trump University fraud, Trump Foundation fraud, and all his indictments, to not understand this is what Trump brings on himself makes me question what alternative universe they live in. It's like some parent defending their child's innocence and they are just being picked on. Then you read their life choices and a rap sheet as long as I-90.
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He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

How exactly is rhe 4th Ammendment being violated? The 4th ammendment does not require warrants to sieze illegal aliens. We hear people crying "where's your warrant, where's your warrant". It's a total lie. They don't need a warrant to pick up illegal aliens. So, I don't know what you are talking about here.
That is not what Im arguing. The 4th amendment protects people from unreasonable government search and seizures. I contend that stopping someone on the street because they “look” illegal or Latino is not reasonable. I know what SCOTUS ruled but I don’t agree with it. I think SCOTUS just kicked the proverbial “can”down the road. This is not a good precedent to set because, in my opinion, it weakens the constitution. Feels like we are back in the McCarthy era.

As far as warrants, ICE can only enter public areas of a private business and they can be asked to leave. They will need a warrant to enter private areas of the business. A fenced in construction site is a private business with no public areas, therefore, ICE needs a warrant to enter. In order to get a warrant they need probable cause.
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Wes Huff Shares What He Believes Has Led to so Many Faith Deconstructions

In an interview on “100 Huntley Street,” apologist Wes Huff discussed what he believes has contributed to the recent wave of faith deconstruction stories.
“100 Huntley Street” is a Canadian television show that “tells the amazing stories of people who have had life-changing encounters with God,” according to its website.
Wes Huff is the vice president of Apologetics Canada. He is currently working on a Ph.D. in New Testament at the University of Toronto’s Wycliffe College, and he regularly posts YouTube videos discussing theology and apologetics.
Faith deconstruction has been a subject of conversation among evangelicals for several years, as a number of high-profile Christian influencers have shared about changes in their faith. Some, including YouTubers Rhett and Link and pastor and author Josh Harris, have left the Christian faith entirely.

Continued below.
Faith is not a human construction.

What can be de-constructed is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith.
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B flat B♭

They fly the shortest route in order to minimise costs and maximise profits. All the long haul passenger jets have roughly the same cruising speed, so the flight times line up with the distances, ie. a flight that is 50% longer distance will take 50% longer time. The long haul passenger jet also have about the same maximum range.
For all the above reasons, the direct flights between Sydney and Santiago are impossible on the flat earth model. They couldn't possibly exist. The distance is too great for the range of the aircraft, the fact that the longer distance takes less time than the flight from Sydney to L.A., all prove the flat earth to be false.

I shall have to go over your post more to get the gist of it, as at the mo it just sounds gobbledygook to me.
How ever I appreciate you trying to explain it too me. :)
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Fear, pain and hunger: The dire impact of shutting down USAID in Africa, leaving a vacuum for China and Russia

He's like the fireman who is an arsonist. He causes the problems then tries to take credit for attempting to solve them.

Why are people still taking this idiot seriously!
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Can not being in the correct denomination cause someone to not be saved?

this has worried me, do I need to be a Catholic to be saved, or a Protestant? Or does the denomination have nothing to do with it?
Denomination has nothing to do with it.

Jesus is the only way to the Father, John 14:6. Salvation is Jesus, NOT Jesus + ........
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Imitatio Christi - is the following Biblical?

Co-Sufferers (Imitatio Christi): Christians are called to participate in the suffering of Christ. Personal suffering is utilized as a means of purification (removing self-will and sin) and spiritual growth. By uniting one's own pain to the Passion, it ceases to be meaningless and becomes a source of grace for oneself and others.

Is this a Biblical understanding?

CNN Dem Panelist Shocks Jennings with Major Admission on Lawfare Against Trump

I gotta unfortunately disagree. He’s the president of the United States and has been reelected well after learning everything we know about his character. This is sadly normal now and I don’t see us coming back from this style of politics anytime soon. Too many people support his style and not nearly enough care to counter it within his party or from the outside.
That's how democracy works. . .the majority of the electorate govern.

Got a better system?
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Swatting Trolls v. Encouraging Saints—Who Wins When Threads Go Sideways?

Yes, there’s a reason why we have the Christians’ Only subforums.

But the content you placed in the OP as what trolls would do

seemed like it would be more commonplace on Facebook or Twitter than here. Psalm 137:9 and Hitler would be off-topic, since you asked for testimonies of grace, and people who post off-topic posts like that repeatedly just get banned. (Calling political leaders Hitler is explicitly banned in the political sections too.)

By the way, a testimonies of grace thread would belong in the Deeper Fellowship area here, in case you were wondering about that.

In broader social media, debate or report does still apply, but after awhile you have to ask yourself whether it’s worth your time to do the debate. The problem with doing nothing is that the slanderers will drown you out if you don’t post at least one counter argument, they will come to define your message for you. You cannot let yourself be defined by your harshest critics. Still, dealing with abusers/slanderers is exhausting work, even when you have the positional and spiritual authority to manage them. I would never oblige someone to debate themselves into exhaustion over some triviality.

The way I manage my energy is just to stay off social media (aside from YouTube) and put my time into forums where I either rely on other moderators or I have mod tools to deal with rule violators myself and I don’t end up having to fight reputation battles all the time. Authority actually saves a lot of energy in comparison to expensive emotional reactions of fear and anger. But that may not be for everyone.

Instead, I would advise to pick your platforms and your battles, and learn their best practices one at a time. You do Facebook? Learn the best practices there. Twitter? Same. YouTube? Ok. TikTok? Whatever. Forum like this one? Not too hard.
Linux.poet, thank you for taking the time to lay out the terrain so clearly. I’m a Kiwi living in Tokyo, blind in one eye and losing the other, so English-speaking Christian fellowship is scarce. My only real goal here is to find brothers and sisters I can go deep with, swap stories of grace, and encourage without having to swat trolls all day. Your map—Christians-Only for testimonies, one calm counter-post, then report and move on—gives me a path that saves energy and keeps the gospel front-and-center. I’ll park future grace-threads in Deeper Fellowship and learn this one platform well. Grace to you, and thanks again for the mod-work you do. May the Lord of grace continue to bless you with strength and peace. Have a wonderful day/night. Jason in Japan for Jesus.
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Midrash "Chayei Sarah" (Sarah lives) GEN 23:1-25:18

The true meaning of the word “love” is NOT about feelings. "Love" is a verb in Hebrew, "Ahav." John 3:16 demonstrates that. "For God so LOVED the world that he GAVE his only begotten son..." Love is giving. The giving and sharing of one's life with another. He proved his love toward us that He GAVE His Only Son, Yeshua, as a sacrifice for our sin.
I find this one of the most interesting subjects, that is, what love actually is. While I do believe love affects feelings, most people's idea of love hinges on lust or liking another person or thing for personal reasons. Such is the height of the confusion of the world and the Bible is clearly distinct from this absurdity.

It is just as you have said here, love is giving, and lust is taking and so cannot be love. Hate is also taking and is opposed to love, as love does not record wrongdoings against it and does not search for its own gain, but to elevate and give to others. (1 Corinthians 13:5)

You have also pointed to something God opened my eyes to seeing much more clearly in that only God has proven His love to anyone in sending His only Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, and that this proof is beyond dispute of any kind. (Romans 5:8 - Romans 8:33) It simply cannot be challenged and God's love is established with extremely solid foundations that cannot be shaken or moved.

Just as “Riv’kah” was willing to follow Eliezar to Isaac’s home, so should the wife be willing to follow her husband. Where he is, she should be as well. UNLESS there is some sort of danger or unwise decision-making on the husband’s part, then the wife needs to help the husband “re-think” the decision.

Now “Rivka” had to be “willing to go with Elazar to be Isaac's wife”. We can see this is our relationship with Yeshua. Yeshua/Jesus is the “bridegroom” and we, the “Kehillah” (Congregation of “called out ones”), are the bride. We have to be a “willing bride” to go with our “heavenly bridegroom”.
Exactly this, and it seems to me many people are missing this point and it is an immense thing you are showing here. I enjoyed reading this and being reminded of it so clearly from Scripture. People seem to think (and I've encountered this just yesterday) that God is about His glory and miss that His glory is in His love and goodness.

I truly believe if they understood what you are saying here they would wake up to a new worldview and realize why they are alive and what God is all about. They miss the key point of relationship with God, of Him calling us to meet Him and know Him and be in a relationship unparalleled to anything we have ever known. To be cared for and loved and to be a part of Himself, who we worship and adore for His immense love and the beauty of who He is.

Until we realize we are being called to be a part of Him, we cannot really understand our place with Him and what He wants with us and it leaves people wondering "how could God love a person like me" or "why would God love me."

Just as Elazar brought gifts to the bride-to-be, Yeshua has given “gifts” to us as HIS Bride: Salvation (Yeshuah), an eternal home/mansion in Heaven, spiritual gifts to do service and minister with. Healthy bodies (for the most part) in which to inhabit, spouses and children, jobs to earn a living, if we think about the list could go on, as to the “Blessings” we have through Yeshua.

Yeshua is looking for a willing bride to follow HIM. Not by force, but by love. He showed us His love by being the sacrifice lamb. Our sin debt has been paid. Will we accept the bridegroom? He has eternal blessings for his precious bride.
Just another great point here, in that what we are given was given by Him to be a part of Him and what He is doing and to show His character and love in us and through us to the world. Being the Bride of Christ, the Messiah, is no small thing and calls us up higher to be like Him in His love toward the world and all around us and it should extend, like said here, to the world in our family and at our job and everywhere we are blessed to be.

"Not by force," is the entire bottom line to what God is doing here. I don't think God allows anyone to be convinced against their will into seeking or believing in Him, for this reason alone, because He is not after "forcing" anyone because love has nothing to do with slavery. While I am a slave to Christ, it is due to my being absolutely enthralled by who His is and how amazing He is and it is by my choice that I do everything in my power to follow Him.. not because He forced me!

It is rather the immensity of His love that has consumed me and caused me to want nothing else because I know that I am found in Him and His love for me makes me love Him beyond anything else I have or will encounter. (1 John 4:19)

When a couple chooses to marry, share life together, provide for one another, in health and in sickness, and not “cop out” on each other, THAT is TRUE LOVE. Abraham stuck by Sarah for over 100 years, in good times and in bad times, like the time of drought, the “Egypt” times, the “Ishmael” times, and the long-awaited “Isaac” times.
Do you think our trials are often there to show we are His Bride? I often wonder (when I read and hear from people who know Scripture well) how they interpret Job and his trials and what God is doing exactly. I know that God is testing our faith (1 Peter 1:7) but do you think it is related to the war Satan has waged against God and are we able to fail tests (Abraham and handmaid for chosen son / king David committing adultery) or do you think these tests and situations were not failures but lessons we needed to learn.

I am unsure how to see challenges that seemed not to "work out well." I know everything happens for a reason, I know God's ways are higher than our ways, I know God knows what He is doing and is leading His own.. but sometimes when you look around you, or when we look around us rather, we can't see how the tests and situations make sense in this scenario of being the Bride of Christ.

Is it possible to "be a bad wife" (for lack of better words lol) and failure is an indication we need to course-correct our attention, or is failure (or what seems like failure) just part of the process, like the wife learning to cook and not initially being a world famous chef?
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