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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Everlastng versus everlasting contmpt. Not everlasting life or everlasting life with contempt. Your lot are still stuck with the notion that everybody lives forever no matter what. Scripture never says any such thing, which y'all have to conveniently ignore.
Yeah, it’s that “everlasting” word that causes you inconvenience.
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

The plain speaking is refreshing, anyway.


It's not so much His not saving everyone, it's that He has designed it so that most of those He ever creates are condemned to hell before they ever draw breath. To some of us that's an impossible idea to believe. The idea that our Lord, God Incarnate, came to save sinners from the horrific results of a system He designed Himself.

Now the Bible makes a clear distinction between those who are given the gift of eternal life, and those who are not. The damnationists belief is that everone who ever lived has eternal life, for some to be enjoyed in paradise, but for most to be tortured forever for having failed to make the cut.

The non-damnationist belief is that the saved live forever in bliss, while the unsaved cease to ever have lived, I.e., God "never knew them". But Scripture would at least suggests that the number of those not "saved" is either very very small, or zero.


Making up rules for God is folly, but ignoring what God has revealed of Himself is even more presumptuous, or to be less charitable, stupid.

And a great deal of what He hasn't hidden at all we ignore if it doesn't fit what we already believe. For instance, doesn't the idea that God has predetermined that most people who He has created will live a brief life on earth and then be tortured without mercy forever seem a bit out of character? Scripture says that He wants everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2;4, 2 Peter 3:9), but here;s a doctrine that says "Nah, He's already condemned the majority of those who'll ever live to eternal life under torture". Hmmm.... Somehow it's a little difficult to reconcile those two positions, don't you think?

Nice bit of well-poisoning there (which, com to think of it, is a pretty witchy thing to do, innit?) I think most of us would say that the best way to know the mond of God is to read His Word and try to understand what it tells us.

Who actually consulted a witch, as I recall.

I'll make a note of it.
How little understanding do you actually have. Even most Calvinists believe that the call goes out to everyone.
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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

1 Cor. 15:42-46
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Most scriptures you referenced are taken out of context and are based on your own judgment of mankind - you use those scriptures to support you, not what they truly mean.
It would take too much time to correct all of what you have said, so I will only address this part!

Adam was in a natural body - that’s true. But, his body was not a corrupted body?

1 Corinthians 15:44 KJV
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Before the fall, Adam had not undergone the change that would have happened if he had eaten from the Tree of Life. The Tree of life would have caused the change from a natural body to a spiritual body. But sin came in and the process from natural to spiritual was stopped. The tree of life would have changed Adam to a spiritual body that would live forever- that’s why, after Adam sinned, God had to put them out of the garden and block the way of the Tree of Life.
Genesis 3:22-24 KJV
22 “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
23 “Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.”
24 “So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”

So, now how would God fulfill His original plan for man to be a spiritual being like Himself? Man at this point of the fall had to be redeemed.

You must understand that before the fall, man did not have to be redeemed from anything. Redemption came because of sin.

Adam and all men that came after Adam was not supposed to stay as men/natural, but was supposed to be spiritual and live forever. The result of this sin or fall caused God to withdraw His Spirit from man. Genesis 6:3 KJV, “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

So now, man needs a redeemer. It’s the spiritual aspect of man that’s important- so how will it be accomplished now if the Tree of Life was blocked?
1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
So it is by Jesus Christ that man has been redeemed and made children of God by the Spirit- the Holy Spirit.

Redeemed from what? A fallen state in Adam.

So, if Adam was already corrupt, as you are implying, then what state did he fall from?
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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

ceremonial, sacrificial, civil, moral, etc... these are all post-biblical labels applied to law.

Labels is not the correct word here for "moral". God's Saying some of God's Laws are "moral" and some are not, are "Judgments" of God's Law, not merely labels. Civil, Sacrificial and ceremonial Law could be construed as "labels" placed on God's Laws although God didn't divide His "Instruction in Righteousness" in such a manner. It is a 100% creation of religious men who profess to know God.

Your question was concerning the existence of the word "Moral" as it applied to God's Law in the Holy Scriptures. The truth is, it doesn't exist in Scriptures. In fact the very idea, the very thought to "Judge" God's Law as moral or civil, began in the garden of Eden by a religious voice who "professed to know God".

The foundation of its teaching, was that as long as a man lived by every Word of God, he would remain blind and ignorant. Only by judging God's Laws, some as worthy of honor and respect, and some as unworthy of honor and respect, can a man escape the "bondage" of being blind and ignorant.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Judge the Law as unworthy of obedience) "then" your eyes shall be opened, and (Then) ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This is the foundation of the "judgments" placed on God's Laws by this world's religious system. "I don't have to honor or respect God in this Law of His, because it's not moral".

I would advocate caution where adopting this world's judgments and Labels they place on God's Laws. It didn't bode well for those examples God gave us in the Scriptures. And as Paul said, "Are we better than they"? God forbid!!"

they don't demand the law is cut up and sectioned off this way only that they can be useful for theological applications. With the case of "moral" this is a qualitative judgment, but it's not that helpful because in order to apply it uniquely to the 10 we have to redefine what moral means.

Why? This is the trap this world's religious system sets for us. First, it deceives us into believing some of God's Laws are not "moral" Laws which justifies men in their rejection of them. But because different religious sects and businesses of this world define differently what Laws are "moral" and what laws are not, there is often disagreements between the competing religious sects.

In your argument here, your definition of "moral Law" is different from SB's Definition of "Moral Law". So you have 3 choices really. You can submit to SB's judgment of "moral Law", and deny your own judgment. Or you can try and convince SB to "redefine what moral means" to align with your definition.

And the 3rd choice, which is the choice I advocate, is that we trust all of God's Word as "moral", and stop listening to all the other voices in the world that God placed us in.

Since there are moral laws both inside the 10 and outside and there are aspects of the 10 that are not based on moral action, then "moral" is only being used as a replacement for the 10 commandments but since it uses the word "moral," it creates a bias carrying a suggestion that qualitatively speaking it rises above the other laws.
We'll, there are "Greater Commandments", and "Lessor Commandments" according to the Jesus "of the Bible". Murdering your brother would be a greater evil that coveting what your brother had. Both have the same punishment for those who transgressed, but one would be worse for your brother than the other. And Jesus said this distinction has no bearing on whether we honor God in obedience or not.

But judging God's Laws, some as moral and others as not, isn't replacing the 10 Commandments, its exalting oneself over God. It's saying we are qualified to judge God and His Laws. In my view "it creates a bias carrying a suggestion that qualitatively speaking our judgment rises above the judgment of God.



A title that's more useful that isolates the 10 is calling them polemic pillar laws in their role of contrasting surrounding ANE (ancient near east) values. They don't alone accomplish this and the whole law shares that role too, but they do stand as a poster of contrast, quickly establishing value systems that are very different in terms of its monothesisic values (commandments 1-3) values of civil order that extend to moral action (5-10) and with th 4th how they value 7th day practice which was already a pre-existing value system prevelient in ANE cultures. The 10 takes the 7th-day system that would have had mass pagan association, redeeming by pointing it to worship/practice to a monotheistic God as well as lacing it with a redemptive story.

You seem to making my point here. If I understand your position, you believe SB is in error by isolating the Commandments of God given in Exodus 20, from God's other Laws and assigning a greater value to the Laws defined in Exodus 20, and a "lessor" value to those Laws of God HE gave in, let's say, Leviticus 19.

But aren't you doing the same thing by isolating one of God's Laws in Exodus 20, and assigning it a "lessor" value than the other Laws of God given at the same time, to the same audience?

"moral" is too loaded of term and pits the 10 against the other laws which was never the purpose.

I couldn't agree more. But aren't you promoting the same thing by judging one of God's Commandments given in Exodus 20, as "not a moral command", and then pitting that LAW against the other Laws defined for us in Exodus 20?

I agree that God didn't create His Laws for men to judge one against or over another. Rather, God created Laws as "instruction in "HIS" definition of righteousness for those who would join themselves to Him in this cursed world.

The 10 do not act alone from the covenant they are created in, they are called tablets of covenant law, but even before Moses climbed the mountain to get the tablets the commandments were already communicated to the Israelites, along with a host of other laws.

Indeed, Noah and Abraham was also given God's Judgments, Statutes commandments and Laws. Except for the Levitical Priesthood, which wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham, as Levi wasn't even born in Abraham's time.

The 10 are first brought up in Ex 20 and Moses climbs the mountain in Ex 24. Those 4 chapters in between all address laws that stand together with the 10, not separate to them and a part of the covenant relationship that was formed that Israel committed to... all before the tablets were made.

Some were enumerated before Ex. 20, as far back as Cain and Abel, and Noah and Abraham. And truly they were a part of God's relationship with men throughout the Bible. I completely agree that we shouldn't judge God's Laws, some as worthy of honor, and some as not worthy of honor.

We completely miss the point when we extract the 10 outside of its context and force them to work as some sort of universal moral code, for one they don't work this way. I may avoid killing my neighbour, stealing from him, lying to him or sleeping with his wife, (those are actually pretty easy to do) but I may also hate him and avoid him at all costs. If I see he has fallen, cross the street and ignore him. This all would keep the 10, but grossly misses the point. For example, Ex 23:4 "If you come across your enemy’s ox or donkey wandering off, be sure to return it." this is not a requirement of the 10 commandments, yet it is presented alongside of them and should not be regarded as separate to them. So, sure we include this as well.... it also presents laws on how we keep slaves, do we include that as well? The point is we can't cut and paste law and pick what we think is better than another. It's a package deal and is designed to work together, and it all points to Christ (including the slavary parts)

Absolutely. This is why, in my view, Jesus quoted His Father in the Gospel of Christ, "Man shall live by Every Word that Proceeds from the mouth of God.

Certainly a great topic of discussion to be had among men seeking the Righteousness of God.
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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

Do you mean medical care? As in, hormones and/or surgery? Can you name a school that provides gender-affirming medical care, and cite the source? (I thought the nurse's office was limited to band-aids and maybe Tylenol.)
Gender affirming care is expansive. It does not mean that schools are performing surgeries or school nurses hand out hormones. Don't be silly. Affirming a kids gender is more than that.

In Oregon the Dept. Of Education has gender affirming care in their schools.
They have entire documents on how schools are supposed to provide gender affirming care for the students.

Minnesota does the same.

In Seattle the schools allow gender clinics in the schools which do provide hormones to the kids. Can you imagine if schools allowed churches inside the schools to operate all day and hold services during the school day?

Or perhaps a pro-life pregnancy caring center?
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Determinism is the truth, and certain people are always needed to afflct those going to heaven before they can be qualified enough to get to go there, and that's what these realities are for before people getting to go there, get to go there. But those who were just only primarily meant to just do the afflicting ever, are never meant to go there ever, but just re-repeat each of their nearly exact same kind of existences again each any every single time one of these newer, but now other, fallen creations are re-made, or are recreated, or re-starts, or re-repeats itself again. And because determinism is the truth, this has always been forever, and will always be forever, and cannot be changed, but they are never aware of this each and every single time however, etc.

God Bless.
Interesting. Completely baseless, IMO, but interesting.
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SLOTKIN STUMPED! Senator Admits She's 'Not Aware' of Any 'Illegal' Orders From Trump to Military [WATCH]

Again, isn't that what JAGs are for in part?

In practicality, if Smith gets an order that is "manifestly illegal," it will come from some level not far above him, not from major command level or higher.

If the order originated from major command or higher, the necessary JAGs will have vetted the order (that is, written the necessary legalese around it) before Corporal Smith gets it. It won't be "manifestly illegal."
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Tit for Tat Tariffs - The US versus the World

I've heard people say, "We need a businessman as President." The whole reason for wanting someone who owns a business as President is that businessmen know how to balance budgets. If they don't care about that, there is no reason for wanting them in office.
If you want a businessman in the White House that doesn't understand debt, then so be it. There are very few such businessmen. Debt is part of almost all business models. A "balanced budget" is not a meaningful concept for business.
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Disneyland 'MAGA Invasion' Organizers Reveal Plans to 'Trigger' Guests and ‘Make Disney Great Again’

  • A California-based conservative group is planning an unsanctioned "MAGA invasion" of Disneyland
  • On Wednesday, Nov. 19, the group known as 805 Patriots posted an invite for the meetup set to take place in February
  • One of the goals of event is to trigger "as many liberals as possible in their home turf"

  • Some commenters were concerned with paying for the tickets and sending their money to Disney, to which the organization said: “This is to go have some fun by triggering as many liberals as possible in their home turf as well as giving conservative families at least one chance to take their kids to Disneyland.”

View attachment 373522
Honestly I don’t know why Disney would even get involved in politics, they could’ve just remained neutral and not aggravate either side. From a business standpoint that would’ve been the smartest thing to do. But I guess “when in Rome”…
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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

It's been my experience that DEI trainings don't ask us to show ideological compliance; they just ask us to treat people a certain way as a means of showing respect. I could still hate Gerald but I gotta treat him with respect....kinda thing. But to be fair, every job I've had has a high social component (ie...that's a huge part of being successful at the job) and so how others are treated is really about being successful at my job and not just "making a healthy work atmos".


Their argument is that they have the right to misgender people as a free speech issue.
NVM the hurt it causes trans people; that's their right.
And the reason they do it.
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Pro's and con's of using AI in political debate.

I just don’t like being replied to with just an AI response. If you give some of your own thoughts in a reply and use ai as a tool to back up the points you are making then that’s ok but just a straight up canned response copied and pasted from google or whatever ai source is going to be ignored by me.

I come here because I have a pretty good feeling most everyone here is a real person with actual opinions. It’s much more communal and personal here than the thousands of random people replying on social media platforms. If we start replying to each other with ai answers we kill what makes a site like this worth coming to.
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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

I think you missed the gist of what I was saying, here and in other posts. I'm more concerned with anything---and I mean anything of legislative policy---that even remotely smells or feels like I'm having to slog through The Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf.

In other words, DEI or Christian Nationalism that resorts to forcing anyone to 'sign on' the dotted line to show ideological compliance and agreement isn't something I will do.
It's been my experience that DEI trainings don't ask us to show ideological compliance; they just ask us to treat people a certain way as a means of showing respect. I could still hate Gerald but I gotta treat him with respect....kinda thing. But to be fair, every job I've had has a high social component (ie...that's a huge part of being successful at the job) and so how others are treated is really about being successful at my job and not just "making a healthy work atmos".

Live and let live and don't deny the rights you enjoy to others. What a horrible belief.
Their argument is that they have the right to misgender people as a free speech issue.
NVM the hurt it causes trans people; that's their right.
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Well so are we. But you do realize Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson disagreed in similar ways to how you and I seem to disagree on Mamdani. Jefferson saught a slower more controlled immigration policy than Hamilton, to protect the identity of American culture, and I don't think Mamdani is fully assimilated enough into American culture to begin with, considering he's only been here for 17 years. I feel like he's unpredictable, and was elected based on public drunkenness on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. I feel like they wanted a Palestinian, because that was a hot topic at the time, and Mamdani was the closest they could get.

His economic policy is going to be a disaster, and I think he's going to attract a huge foreign culture to America's "big apple" that's going to clash with our own culture, and cause long term problems in the future.

...So while I'm not against diversity, I'm openly protective over it, just like some of our founders were.
Evidently you reserve the right to yourself to determine what "American culture' is so you are going to have to deal with more people who haven't "assimilated" than just Muslims--including many of us native born citizens.
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Well so are we. But you do realize Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson disagreed in similar ways to how you and I seem to disagree on Mamdani. Jefferson saught a slower more controlled immigration policy
You seem to have changed courses midstream. We were talking about religious diversity. Not immigration or 'public drunkenness' on Gaza.

The Jefferson on my side is this one:

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
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Disneyland 'MAGA Invasion' Organizers Reveal Plans to 'Trigger' Guests and ‘Make Disney Great Again’

They said trigger, not harass. From the right's point of view the left is so easily triggered that just being there will set them off. Nothing more is needed. If you want test that theory, just put on a maga hat and walk around downtown minding your own business, and see what happens.
Still seems like youre being a jerk going to Disneyland with the intent to trigger people.

Its Disneyland. Go there for other reasons.
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Reactions: MotoToTheMax
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

We are into freedom and diversity, just like the founders who set it up that way.
Well so are we. But you do realize Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson disagreed in similar ways to how you and I seem to disagree on Mamdani. Jefferson saught a slower more controlled immigration policy than Hamilton, to protect the identity of American culture, and I don't think Mamdani is fully assimilated enough into American culture to begin with, considering he's only been here for 17 years. I feel like he's unpredictable, and was elected based on public drunkenness on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. I feel like they wanted a Palestinian, because that was a hot topic at the time, and Mamdani was the closest they could get.

His economic policy is going to be a disaster, and I think he's going to attract a huge foreign culture to America's "big apple" that's going to clash with our own culture, and cause long term problems in the future.

...So while I'm not against diversity, I'm openly protective over it, just like some of our founders were.
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Disneyland 'MAGA Invasion' Organizers Reveal Plans to 'Trigger' Guests and ‘Make Disney Great Again’

At least Mini Gay Days offers discounted tickets to the park.

The organizers behind the “MAGA Invasion” of Disneyland event say they “didn’t plan” for the meetup to happen on the same day as a local gay pride event. However, they claim their gathering will be “even more fun now.”
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