• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

B flat B♭

And I don't have time too explain every video I post - Sorry.
We've seen in the past that you don't even watch every video you post. Like the one when Buzz Aldrin apparently said that he did not go to the moon, where in fact he said the complete opposite.
If your "research" involves going to YouTube, typing "Flat Earth" into the search engine and then posting whatever video it suggests, without watching it, understanding it or being able to explain it in your own words, no wonder you contradict yourself and get tied in knots.

Slightly changing the subject, are there any copyright rules regarding the posting of other people's videos?
Upvote 0

MARK OF THE BEAST - REVELATION 13-14; 17; 18

And why does it have to relate to those who first heard the prophecy? All prophecy is about the Lord Jesus Christ and His purposes. They are not always to be fully understood by those who first heard them.

To John’s audience​

John says he is writing to the 7 churches in Asia Minor - to show them what will "SOON take place". Futurists often say “God’s time is not our time” or something like that - so let’s check some other indications.

They should OBEY (1:3) his letter for the time is NEAR. Imagine you received a prophecy that said something like…
“The Martian Reds will attack the Zorn in the south of Mars in the year 4000!”
Now OBEY this message!
How? It’s incomprehensible - and you would be dead a few millennia before it happens!
OK - still not convinced?

Finally - in 1:9 John says he is their PARTNER in THE TRIBULATION. Not “a” tribulation - but THE tribulation.
The Romans have put him in exile. He already shares in their sufferings. It’s not just soon - it’s already happening! And he is advising them from his own tribulation situation. But when futurists come and pretend they have evidence that it’s all about us, now, today (because that’s just so tempting - so much more exciting isn’t it!?) - what’s the side effect?

They turn the Apostle John into someone impossibly heartless and patronising.
He is in effect saying to the Christians he’s ministering to, "You think you've got it bad! Wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!!!"

Summary: Soon, OBEY for the time is NEAR, and he SHARES in THE tribulation.

John’s book is a sermon on suffering remind them of the foundational gospel events and promises in Apocalyptic Symbolism - which is like the comic book of the bible.
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

I thought @prodromos mean''''''t someone on here.
It still applies.

I've said, a couple of times, that I fully believe Genesis 1 AND that the earth is a globe, and your reply has been, "you can't do."
You've also told me that my motive for writing certain things has been ....... when you are not a mind reader and have no idea what I've been thinking.
Upvote 0

Can Truth Be Known? How

That's usually a problem.
Proverbs 18:13 He who answers a matter before he hears it - this is folly and disgrace to him.
I don't see a problem, unless you are stating it is a problem for you. Brother Fervent seems par for the course so far, I would agree with him generally speaking on this.

Could you elaborate on where the problem is you are encountering?


It takes engaging with it to make a determination
I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I'm going to take the liberty of making a guess here and say it looks as though Fervent is using the word "it" to refer to "the truth."

If that is the case, it makes perfect sense. He is responding to your OP according to your inquiry.

As a Christian, how does one determine what is truth?
If I were to answer this question I would have replied exactly, and I do mean exactly verbatim with this statement or something very close. Maybe it wouldn't be as concise and precise, but meaning-wise, exactly that point.


It takes engaging with it to make a determination
So this, essentially, is the short answer to your OP.


Correct me if I'm wrong Fervent

If it wasn't what Fervent meant, it is still what I would say. You have to engage with the truth to decide if it is the truth.
Upvote 0

CNN Dem Panelist Shocks Jennings with Major Admission on Lawfare Against Trump

To "frame" someone means to maliciously and falsely make an innocent person appear guilty of a crime, often by planting misleading evidence or creating a false narrative. It is a deliberate act of setting someone up to be accused of a crime they did not commit.
According to the National Registry of Exonerations, over 3,300 individuals have been exonerated since 1989, and false or misleading evidence is among the major causes.
What evidence do you have that the evidence presented in any of the trials were Trump was found guilty was planted, false or misleading in any way?

You must have some kind of evidence, right? You're not just making stuff up here, are you?

-- A2SG, I mean, it does sound like that, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.....
Upvote 0

Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

I think the Jews who believe in Jesus, Paul is calling the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.
Typical of how you and others insist on a Jewish redemption. Something never said to happen in scripture.
Only those Jews; and everyone else, who accept Jesus now, will be saved. In Jerusalem, by hiding underground; Isaiah 29:1-4, Zephaniah 1:18, and around the world.

Paul is identifying ALL those who follow the Way of Christ, are included as the Israel of God.
Those people who do not follow the Way of Christ, are rejected as the Israelites of God, even if they could prove descent from Judah. Which none of the Jews can.
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

I know, so why do you think he posted them ?
I have absolutely no idea, as they don't relate to Russia's knowledge or lack of knowledge in 1948 about the earth's shape. Here is the content of the first link, as an example of what I mean. Perhaps you could indicate where that links says anything about Russia's knowledge of the earth's shape:

"
The Nixon Collection
Aquiline Aquiline
Nixon and the People’s Republic of China: CIA’s Support of the Historic 1972 Presidential Trip
This collection marks the 50th anniversary of President Richard M. Nixon’s February 1972 trip to the People’s Republic of China (PRC) – a landmark event that preceded the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries. This small collection, consisting of three city guides, an atlas, and four leadership profiles, is a subset of the materials CIA produced for President Nixon and National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger in preparation for the seven-day visit.
City guides were produced on Peking (Beijing), Shanghai, and Hang-Chou (Hangzhou)1, as these cities were part of President Nixon’s tour of the PRC. Each guide included a brief history of the city, contemporary maps and photographs, and descriptions of geography, climates, and points of interest.
CIA also produced an 82-page atlas of the PRC for President Nixon’s trip. The US government distributed more than 4,000 copies to government customers and non-government institutions and libraries, and sold 30,000 copies to the public for a short period after the trip for $5.25, or $35.19 in today’s dollars. This is the first time in fifty years CIA has made the atlas available to the public.
This collection also includes leadership profiles—assessments that CIA provides US Presidents and other policymakers to assist them in understanding their foreign counterparts. The profiles in this collection include Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Chairman Mao Tse-tung (Mao Zedong) and Premier Chou En-lai (Zhou Enlai). A profile of Lin Piao (Lin Biao), Vice Chair of the CCP, prepared for this trip is also included in this collection; however, Lin died in a plane crash five months before President Nixon’s visit.

_____________________
1 CIA did not begin using the non-Romanization spelling of Beijing and Hangzhou until 1979. This article provides updated spellings elsewhere in parentheses.
See The Nixon Collection (8 documents/331 pages).

Current/Central Intelligence Bulletin Collection
CIB
Central Intelligence Bulletin
Harry Truman was the first U.S. president to receive a daily intelligence digest. At his direction, the Daily Summary began production in February 1946, and continued until February 1951. President Truman was pleased with the product, but a survey group commissioned by the National Security Council in 1949 was critical of the Daily Summary and issued several recommendations to improve it. The new version, called the Current Intelligence Bulletin, began production on 28 February 1951, and this remained the format of the president's daily digest through Dwight Eisenhower's two terms, although it was retitled the Central Intelligence Bulletin in 1958. The Current/Central Intelligence Bulletin grew longer than its predecessor over time with the addition of more items and more analysis, and would eventually contain more graphics as printing technology improved.
2 January-30 June 1961
The new Kennedy Administration confronted a full array of international issues in 1961. In April, a group of CIA-trained Cuban exiles landed at the Bay of Pigs on the southern coast of Cuba with the goal of overthrowing the Fidel Castro regime and establishing an anti-Communist government. The outnumbered invading force was quickly repelled by Castro's troops. The year's reports were dominated by the worsening Congo crisis, with the fragmentation of the country widening despite the efforts of the United Nations, and US concern over the high tempo of Soviet testing of space vehicles and intercontinental ballistic missiles. The situation in Laos deteriorated, as the Communist Pathet Lao insurgency gained strength against the US-backed Royal Lao government.
The changes at the CIA following the Bay of Pigs included a format update for the president's daily intelligence report. The new version, called the President's Intelligence Checklist (PICL), was first delivered on 17 June 1961. The Central Intelligence Bulletin continued to be produced as a separate publication until 10 Jan 1974, when it was replaced by the National Intelligence Daily. The PICL, however, was the president's primary written intelligence source through the remainder of the Kennedy Administration. The Kennedy PICL reports are available here
This historical release includes: the Central Intelligence Bulletin reports from 2 January-30 June 1961 (2752 pages).
This release is the thirteenth and final release in the Current/Central Intelligence Bulletin series.
See the Current/Central Intelligence Bulletin Collection

Aquiline
Aquiline Aquiline
aquiline adj. of or like the eagle.
Aerial intelligence collection platforms have played a critical role in US national security from the earliest beginnings of aviation. CIA's 1960s OXCART Program and its use of U-2s are examples of collection innovations that have kept US leaders informed about adversaries' capabilities and intentions. Despite their success, however, use of these platforms carried significant risks and repercussions, including detection and even pilot loss, such as the downing of the U-2 flown by Francis Gary Powers in 1960. Ever-evolving research by the CIA led to the development concept of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) as collection platforms. An innovative Agency program in the 1960s codenamed Aquiline was the very first to test this concept. Based initially on the study of flight characteristics of birds, Aquiline was envisioned as a long-range vehicle that could safely and stealthily provide a window into denied areas such as the Soviet Union through photography and other capabilities, and would even support in-place agent operations. While it never became operational, the concept proved invaluable as a forerunner to today's multi-capability UAVs.
Learn more about CIA's early eagle (40 documents/289 pages).

The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe: A 30-Year Legacy
President Bush
The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe: A 30-Year Legacy
This collection includes a broad sampling of articles from the National Intelligence Daily—the CIA's principal form of current intelligence analysis at the time—from February 1989 to March 1990. These articles represent much of the Agency's short-term analysis of events unfolding in Central and Eastern Europe as popular opposition to Soviet misrule erupted and quickly surpassed anything the Communist regimes were prepared to understand or to which they could respond. The material also represents a major source of information and insight for US policymakers into what was happening in these countries, where the situation was heading, and how a collapse of Communist rule in Europe and the beginnings of the breakup of the Soviet Union would impact Europe and the United States.
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

I have just watched the video, and found that the documents he refers to and shows in the video are nothing like the ones you listed. Not one of your nine links mentions the shape of the earth or what Russia knew or didn't know about it in 1948.

I know, so why do you think he posted them ?
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

But it has just been explained to you how Rob's kit is based on falsehood. It's no good just saying that he is not a fraud. You need to tell us how you think his kit works accurately in view of what has been explained here about defraction.

And you need to watch the video. :)
Upvote 0

Keeping yourself in check. Bible study of Sirach 5:1-6

The Wisdom of Sirach is canonical to the Orthodox Church and is in my Bible. It may not be in your bible, but that only makes it apocryphal by your definition.

I'm sure there's site rules about this.
Well, it wasn't in the Hebrew Old Testament, and unlike the actual Old Testament books, it is not quoted in the New Testament. I couldn't see any mention of the Apocrypha in the Forum Rules.
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

If you watched the video these links provide all the info too what Rob is talking about.
I have just watched the video, and found that the documents he refers to and shows in the video are nothing like the ones you listed. Not one of your nine links mentions the shape of the earth or what Russia knew or didn't know about it in 1948.
Upvote 0

Keeping yourself in check. Bible study of Sirach 5:1-6

Jesus indirectly quoted from Sirach may times and it makes me wonder, if people insist sirach is not inspired, then, why did Jesus need to repeat anything in it again?

you can google and find a few good websites outlining all the similarities in luke's gospel to sirach.
Upvote 0

What happens if someone dies before they became a believer, is it their fault?

If you want me to 'admit' that it is possible that some babies go to hell, ok. I insist that it is possible, until someone can demonstrate to my satisfaction that babies are born innocent, without the inherent corruption endemic to the rest of us.
Well, I didn't ask for your opinion to judge you, but you were kind of hiding in the shade brush so I figured I would whistle you out of there. lol

I can read between the lines, even if there are more than three there, and knew the stance but wasn't going to "speak for you." I definitely disagree and to say I have experienced God differently would be an understatement. I think every single case before God, souls that is, is judged individually by an absolutely perfect Judge. I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you believe that also. At least that is what I'm gathering from what you have stated so far.

To posit my particular stance on this, I claim God to be a perfect and righteous Judge who is full of mercy and being more merciful than any of us would incline one to believe Him as a God who is love (1 John 4:7 - 1 John 4:8) to be merciful to children who have never committed any deeds physically, let alone sins, even though being born in sin, and that the blood of Jesus would give God the right to remove that sinful nature they are born with even more easily than He does ours who have committed many thousands upon thousands of sins over the course of our life.

Abraham calls God the Judge of all the Earth in Genesis 18:25, and cries out for Lot who is obviously (if we read Scripture later in Genesis of him upon the angels visit in Sodom) not the most righteous man in the Bible, and far from it if I'm to be blunt on the subject. Yet the righteous Judge had mercy on this man, living in the most sinful and one of the worst judged (if not the worst) cities to ever exist on this Earth.

We know that God forgave Lot because he is recorded in the New Testament differently than we read in the records of the Old Testament. In Hebrews 11 we find all of the saints / patriarchs of the Old Testament recorded as righteous and full of faith. Abraham was not always full of faith! Having doubted enough to try on his own through an alternative method of producing a son by means of Sarah's handmaid. Yet in Hebrews 11 Abraham is recorded as faithful and an example to follow. Lot in 2 Peter 2:7 is recorded the same way and is called a "righteous man" or "righteous Lot."

So then my own opinion on this is the character of God, who is love according to 1 John 4:8, who says we are nothing without love in 1 Corinthians 13:2, and who makes it clear the entire purpose of God's instructions to us is to bring us to the fullness of love itself in 1 Timothy 1:5, and finalizing it with Matthew 22:37 Matthew 22:38 Matthew 22:39 Matthew 22:40 Christ tells us that the entirety of the Law (Bible) hangs on these two commandments meaning God's Law is a Law of love.

So then, to say God would send a child (an infant) who even the secular world considers precious an innocent to Hell, how is He then more merciful than humans? If horrid sinners are appalled at the atrocity of children and babies being murdered, how could we ever make sense of God putting one in Hell? For His glory? In what sense? How does an infant in Hell bring glory to God and reveal His character and person of love? His infinite kindness and forgiveness and gentleness?

Maybe you have some answer to this, but I would certainly be curious as to how such a thing could even remotely be possible to bring glory to a God who is love. For a God who is willing to put His own Son on a cross (Romans 8:32), what rational reason would a person with that kind of love and sacrifice to save us who have sinned (not just been born in sin because of someone else's choices), why would someone that unimaginably kind and merciful ever send a child to literally be punished for an eternity but save Lot?

To throw one more out there for arguments sake, we are saying here (from your stance) that Paul who murdered men by his own testimony, and king David who did the same for personal reasons, and Moses also trying to save his brothers with his own strength and be a hero murdered a man are forgiven, but a little tiny baby who can't speak a word, think a clear thought, isn't fully conscious and can't even care for themselves somehow, in the most loving Person's eyes who has or will ever exist, deserves by His judgment to go to Hell?

In my view, that is exactly why Christ died on the cross, to free those born in sin, but who do not choose to accept it but repent. If no opportunity for repentance is available and sins have not been committed by these infants, why would a Judge who states His entire being, essence, and Law is based on love ever not cleanse them with His precious blood when He can forgive anyone He wants?

Oh I think they are forgiven for being "born in sin" for sure, and cleansed, and much faster and without a second thought by Christ.

With all respect intended, I think maybe some people are confusing an idea of Christ with the real Christ Jesus who said this about children:

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
Upvote 0

The Way of The Righteous

“How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked,
Nor stand in the path of sinners,
Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water,
Which yields its fruit in its season
And its leaf does not wither;
And in whatever he does, he prospers.
“The wicked are not so,
But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the wicked will perish.” (Psalm 1:1-6 NASB1995)

This is from the Old Testament, but did you know that the New Testament teaches these same fundamental truths in the gospel of our salvation? And I don’t mean word for word of what this teaches, but the fundamental truths of the gospel. What determines one’s salvation, whether Old Testament or New Testament, is not only the grace of God, and genuine faith which comes from God, but how we live in conduct, whether we are living righteously in obedience to our Lord or we are living wickedly in disobedience to God. And New Testament – Jesus’ blood sacrifice to take away the sins of the world.

For we read in 1 Corinthians 10:1-22 and Hebrews 3:1-19 and Hebrews 4:1-13 that God was not pleased with the majority of those who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. For they were those who craved evil and who were idolaters, revelers, immoral, grumblers, and those who put God to the test. So God put them to death, and they did not get to enter into the Promised Land nor into God’s eternal rest (his salvation from sin and eternal life with God). And these things happened as examples for us, that we should not crave evil things as they did. And they were written down for our instruction.

For God regards disobedience to his commands, in practice, the same as unbelief. And belief in Jesus Christ, if it is genuine biblical faith, must be accompanied by death to sin, not just once, but daily putting sin to death, by the Spirit, and walking in obedience to our Lord and his commands in our conduct, and as our practice. This is not to say that we will be perfect in everything or that we will never sin again (1 John 2:1-2), but that sin must no longer be our practice, and obedience to our Lord must now be our practice, by the grace of God, in the power of God, and by the Spirit.

So, we are blessed of God who do not walk in the counsel of the wicked, and who do not follow after the sinful desires of the flesh, but whose delight is in the teachings of Christ and of his New Testament apostles and of the Scriptures, as a whole. And if we delight in our Lord and in the teachings of the Scriptures, and in his commandments to us who believe in Jesus Christ, then we will be those who are walking in obedience to our Lord and to his commands in holy living, by the grace of God, and in the power of God. And we will be those who are no longer making sin our practice.

And if we are indeed following our Lord in surrender to his will, in obedience to his commands in daily living, by the grace of God, then we should also be those who are bearing much spiritual fruit in keeping with repentance and with walks of obedience to our Lord’s commands. There should be physical evidence, by how we live, that we are in genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, and he is truly Lord (Owner-Master) of our lives. For we should be working for God, our lives committed to his service, doing what he says, who are also sharing the truth of the gospel with the people of this world.

But if we are living wickedly, in direct defiance to our Lord and to his commands, and if sin is still what we practice, and not obedience to God, we will not inherit eternal life with God, regardless of what our lips profess. Like the old saying goes, “The proof is in the pudding,” i.e. the test to see whether or not our faith in Jesus Christ is of God, and is genuine, is in the results (the fruit). Are we living righteously, in obedience to our Lord, in following his leading and his will and purpose for our lives? Or are we still living in sin and for self without regard for our Lord and his commands?

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1


As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

Login to view embedded media
Caution: This link may contain ads

The Way of The Righteous
An Original Work / November 19, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,878,378
Messages
65,416,861
Members
276,379
Latest member
Leading Lady