• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump said he’s looking into an Australian-style retirement program for America. Here’s how it works

President Donald Trump on Tuesday said at the White House that his administration is looking into an Australian-style retirement program.

“We’re looking at it very seriously,” Trump said. “It’s a good plan. It’s worked out very well.”

Superannuation, or “super” for short, is Australia’s flagship retirement savings program.

Employers are required to fund employees’ savings accounts, which are invested in select funds — known as super funds — that are locked up until retirement. The employer-funded contributions are made on top of paying employees their regular income. Employees can also contribute to their own savings account.

Employers must contribute the equivalent of 12% of an employee’s income into these super funds.

There is also a government pension program that serves as a safety net for people who need additional support. However, “super” is increasingly the primary retirement savings vehicle.

--

An interesting idea, sort of a mandatory 401k, but of course we need a lot more details to see how this would actually work, and who the winners and losers are compared to existing Social Security. And exactly how the transition would be made.

The 12% is similar to the 12.4% paid into Social Security. Of course with Social Security it's split evenly between employer and employee, whereas this would fall all on the employer.

The main problem (as I see it) is that one's balance is directly proportional to income, and so the benefits will be as well. For Social Security, as I understand it, there is a formula used to help spread the pool out -- aiding lower income people. [On the flip side, the very wealthy only pay Social Security tax on the first $176K of salary.]

The main problem (as corporations see it) is that it (on paper anyway) shifts the entire burden onto them.

The world will be re-Christianized after World War III

I'm curious why you're so resigned to the idea that WW3 would start next year specifically. We've been on a WW3 brink for a long time now.

The Lord told me.
China will invade Taiwan in 2026,which in turn leads to WW3.
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Why do people hate ICE...

Why? Do we get more money from somebody.
Several large private prison companies have donated and contributed to the Trump campaign. They’re then awarded contracts with the government to house all the people ICE and border patrol have been detaining. It’s essentially state sanctioned human trafficking for profit. We don’t get any of this money from this but several of Trump’s wealthy friends do.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

Earthly death
This would be considered the first death, punishment or not.

but the spirit returns to the one who made it
Yes, and at Judgement Day (hasn't happened yet) the second death happens. Which coincides with Christ's teaching with Matthew 10:28.



The preponderance of the evidence points a certain direction.
If you don't want to believe death is not really death. Christ even calls it the "second death". I don't think we need to add or take away from that. And to say, well Christ doesn't really mean death.

And Malachi makes it pretty clear that the wicked will be turned to ashes. That's what a fire does. Which also coincides with Christ's teaching in Matthew 10:28

We have many verses that state that the wicked will be burned up, shall perish, be cut off, consumed away and so on.
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Trump to pardon Ex-Honduras President Guilty of Drug Trafficking and conspiring to import cocaine into the United States

...from the DOJ announcement in 2024 (when it was still a functioning justice department):

“As the former two-term president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández had every opportunity to affect positive change for his country," said U.S. Attorney Damian Williams for the Southern District of New York. "Instead, Hernández helped to facilitate the importation of an almost unfathomable 400 tons of cocaine to this country: billions of individual doses sent to the United States with the protection and support of the former president of Honduras. Now, after years of destructive narco-trafficking of the highest imaginable magnitude, Hernández will spend 45 years where he belongs: in federal prison.”

[...or not, thanks to one Donald J Trump]

"According to court documents, from at least in or about 2004, up to and including in or about 2022, Hernández, the former two-term president of Honduras and former president of the Honduran National Congress, was at the center of one of the largest and most violent drug-trafficking conspiracies in the world. During his political career, Hernández abused his powerful positions and authority in Honduras to facilitate the importation of over 400 tons of cocaine into the U.S. Hernández’s co-conspirators were armed with machine guns and destructive devices, including AK-47s, AR-15s, and grenade launchers, which they used to protect their massive cocaine loads as they transited across Honduras on their way to the United States, protect the money they made from the eventual sale of this cocaine, and guard their drug-trafficking territory from rivals. Hernández received millions of dollars of drug money from some of the largest and most violent drug-trafficking organizations in Honduras, Mexico, and elsewhere, and used those bribes to fuel his rise in Honduran politics. In turn, as Hernández rose to power in Honduras, he provided increased support and protection for his co-conspirators, allowing them to move mountains of cocaine, commit acts of violence and murder, and help turn Honduras into one of the most dangerous countries in the world."

"During his time in office, Hernández publicly promoted legislation and the efforts he purported to undertake in support of anti-narcotics measures in Honduras. At the same time, he protected and enriched the drug traffickers in his inner circle and those who provided him with cocaine-fueled bribes that allowed him to obtain and stay in power in Honduras.
For example, Hernández selectively upheld extraditions by supporting and taking credit for extraditions to the United States of certain drug traffickers who threatened his grip on power, while at the same time promising drug traffickers who bribed him and followed his instructions that they would remain safe in Honduras. In addition, Hernández and his co-conspirators abused Honduran institutions, including the Honduran National Police and Honduran military, to protect and grow their conspiracy. Among other things, members of the conspiracy used heavily armed Honduran National Police officers to protect their cocaine loads as they transited through Honduras towards the United States for eventual distribution. Members of the conspiracy also turned to violence and murder to protect and grow their drug trafficking enterprise, attacking and murdering rival traffickers and those who threatened their grip on the Honduran cocaine trade."

[During his time in office, Trump pubicly decried the scourge of illegal drugs on the American people and then pardoned one the facilitator of 400 tons of cocaine into the United States.]
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FBI makes arrest in investigation into pipe bombs placed in DC on eve of Jan. 6 riot, AP source says

The arrest marks the first time investigators have settled on a suspect in an act that had long vexed law enforcement, spawned a multitude of conspiracy theories and remained an enduring mystery in the shadow of the dark chapter of American history that is the violent Capitol siege.

No details other than that it's a man.

What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

The HS may or may not happen to us with baptism. It is a sign of the cleansing God has done at getting saved. The HS is responsible for our regeneration though. Sanctification is a work of the HS. The infilling happens when we ask to be in filled. The Holy Spirit . The samaritans had not received the HS until Peter and John showed up. The did not know to ask. So they prayed for them to receive Him and it made a marked difference in them. They became full fledged brethren with the guarantee with the promise, with the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit. The fruits God produces in us. A changed life, a new focus, growth in the HS.

some kids do learn respect from their dads and not sparing the rod. That’s the way it is supposed to work. It leads to understanding oftentimes. That’s discipline. The ones who learn well young go the farthest in faith and are spared from learning late in life. A wise dad will teach the way so there is not so much disobedience. I ve seen it work. There is the way for those of us w/o wise dads.
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Is The Hunger Games good?

Yeah, but how do those things show how God values our lives?

The books do not mention God directly, to the best of my memory.

Do you think the books would have been stronger if the author had made some of the characters explicitly religious and had them comment on how God would view their situation? Alternatively, would you put God's point of view into the narrator's voice? How do you envision changing the books?
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Who do you think are those who are now dead?
It says, “was also preached to those who are now dead“, the gospel was preached unto Abraham and Abraham is now dead. This is the proper understanding of this verse. After death there is no life except in a resurrection from the dead. Jesus said, John 3:13 and this is true. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, the people of his day, Satan holds people in a spiritual prison and only through Jesus can they be set free. Luke 4:18 Isaiah 61:1-2 The popular idea of heaven and hell is not true.
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Trump to pardon Ex-Honduras President Guilty of Drug Trafficking and conspiring to import cocaine into the United States

The war on drugs is against the down on their luck fishermen and unemployed people given a couple hundred bucks to transport product, not the millionaire rulers of the cartel or the enablers.
Won't someone please think of the millionaires!

-- A2SG, such hard lives they have....
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Does Daniel 9:24–27 support a dual 70-week fulfillment with a chiastic structure?

I had a mistake in the maths at one point not doing things in the right order.


In Dan 9 the messiah was going to be cut off (the crucifixion) at the end of 483 years (69 times 7) starting from when a decree went out to rebuild. One of the decrees is in Nehemiah 2 the 20th year of Artaxerxes of Persia which based on archeology was 445 BC. The author of Genesis (150 days, 5 months) Jubilees (150 days, 5 months) , and Revelation (times, time, half a time, 1260 days) are using 360 day a year calendars. So 445 BC minus 483 = -39 AD then minus another 1 year when going from BC to AD or vice versa 40 AD in Gregorian years. To convert to 360 day years then 483 times 5.24 days (the difference between Gregorian years of 365.24 and 360 day years)= 2530/ 360 = 7 year difference. Subtract 7 from 40 AD puts the crucifixion at 33 AD. Please explain if there is a problem with that math.

If the decree was 7th year of Artaxerxes 457 BC in Ezra then 457-483= -26, - another 1= 27 AD - 7 = 20 AD so that makes no sense unless someone has Jesus being born around 10 BC (the NT says something about Jesus 30th year)
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

I understand what you're saying, and it's one reason I don't get into these more secondary discussions. Because if I do, I demand and expect professional level support, which is what I'm going to bring to the table.

But as it is, the Nature of Hell just isn't a topic I want to spend more time on in my life than what I've already spent on it. I don't think it matters either way since, either way, people should sense some healthy fear in coming before a Holy Lord.
Agreed. But I’m one of those that migrate to the topic. We all have our topics of interest.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

What I was asking for initially was what the Christian motivation could be for judging the killing of those two men a righteous act.
But that is the point. There is no Christian motivation here only personal. This is not a collective group’s opinion but individual personal opinion.
You get all uppity when I bring Christanity into it, but even atheists who think interdicting those boats by just blowing them up is OK, draw the line at circling around to kill the survivors in the water.
I don’t get uppity but I do think that you are confusing personal opinion of a few with those of all Christians. You do know that is a fallacy right?
The only people who I have talked to about it who think such an action was righteousl have been Christians.
Then you need to talk to quite a few more to make such a sweeping determination. Your “survey” is hardly conclusive.
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Will you let the bible ...

I see God is not limited. God created all the universe with it possible for any worlds with life, any other way it would not. God provides for that. God cares for life. God is everywhere, God is not limited in power, and is not limited in caring, God cares for all life. This includes each of us individually. As God cares so there is reason for us to do so.
The level and degree of care of God for humans is, however, quite varied. For all of humanity God has provided this earth to sustain life. For most humans, life is far from pleasant, with many dying of disease, famine, and pestilence. God is also perfectly just and holy with requirements to be met in order to please Him. Sadly, all of us have fallen short of His glory and are rightly deserving of an eternity in the lake of fire which burns forever. In His matchless love and grace He sent Jesus Christ to earth to redeem His people. His people were, historically, the Jewish nation and no others among the hundreds of millions of people living on the earth. Following the redemption of Jesus Christ, His people are those who have faith in Jesus Christ. Those who do not have faith in Jesus Christ are not His sheep with the result being that the vast majority of humanity will be eternally lost.
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Christ shared the Gospel with the spirits that were in prison before his death and resurrection. In “The Great Divorce,” C.S. Lewis suggests that Christ might still be reaching out to those spirits that continue to go to the prison or Hades. If this were the case, those who may end up being annihilated could be a very small proportion of people.

But you probably don’t agree with this idea, right? Do you believe the majority of people / spirits will be annihilated?


In the past, I had discussions with SDA's who believe in soul sleep and I rejected their ideas. Now that I distinguish the soul from the spirit, I may not object to soul sleep, so long the consciousness of the spirit is affirmed (which SDA's do not affirm). BTW, SDA's believe in Annihilism after awakening at the Last Judgment.

I have not changed my mind about the personality continuing to exist in or with the conscious spirit after death. I agree with you that the parable of Rich and Lazarus is based on reality. I am interested in learning your beliefs.
He that endures to THE END shall be saved. Everlasting life is a gift from GOD received by the saints at the return of Jesus. This mortal must PUT ON immortality. The idea that humans are an immortal soul is the mistake that produced the heaven and hell idea. Death is not life somewhere else, death is the opposite of life. What you call soul sleep should be called spirit sleep. A soul is a living breathing creature. See Strongs Concordance article H5315 used in Genesis 2:7 for the word soul that is used in the creation of Adam. A human being is a soul, the souls is not a third part of us, it is us. The soul that sins shall die. At death the spirit of man returns to GOD in a totally unconscious state incapable of anything. In this sense everyones human spirit goes back to GOD who gave it. It is the breath of life, the human spirit that imparts life to the body, the body without the spirit is dead as James says. A murderer doesn’t have everlasting life abiding in him 1 John 3:15 The idea of hell gives everlasting life to sinners. Only the church will receive everlasting life in the first resurrection. The promise GOD gave to the church is everlasting life. 1 John 2:25 These words I have written are not my words or opinions, they are in the scriptures. How can anyone understand salvation when they don’t even know what they are themselves ? How would getting these things wrong effect the understanding of the gospel ?
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Trump to pardon Ex-Honduras President Guilty of Drug Trafficking and conspiring to import cocaine into the United States

The war on drugs is against the down on their luck fishermen and unemployed people given a couple hundred bucks to transport product, not the millionaire rulers of the cartel or the enablers.
Upvote 0

Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

Personally, I don't invest in this sort of thread since I think the topic itself is underdetermined and can be seen from either viewpoint.
I’m just following the scriptural thread weaved through scripture. The preponderance of the evidence points a certain direction. But at the end of the day there are a few competing arguments that hold water. I’ve been involved in several arguments that go the predictable way and that is a shame because they are usually based on faulty linguistic context. I think that in all the years that I’ve been here there has only been two or three debaters that argued within the hermeneutical framework. I learn from those.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

You’ll have to ask them. However, you need to examine how you are going about this. This issue is a highly political issue that transcends religion with one side very quick to accuse and get all indignant before all facts are in. I don’t come to a conclusion until I have the necessary facts but many here do.

The legality of it is the earthly measure of what is just. In Christianity there is more to just an earthly measure but also heavenly as well. We believe that only God knows what is in someone’s heart and can fully objectively judge the person. Personally I can make “my” mind of someone’s guilt by the evidence presented but I can never fully know the person’s heart or motivation.
What I was asking for initially was what the Christian motivation could be for judging the killing of those two men a righteous act. You get all uppity when I bring Christanity into it, but even atheists who think interdicting those boats by just blowing them up is OK, draw the line at circling around to kill the survivors in the water. The only people who I have talked to about it who think such an action was righteous have been Christians.
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