jonojim1337 said:

That was more of a prophecy, because a blasphemer would be in their ranks.

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I don’t follow this argument at all.

GoldenKingGaze said:

Surely Romans 13:1-7 can't be taken literally anymore than some us need to cut of our hands to obtain eternal life in Christ?

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The context of Matthew 18:8-9 (the cutting off of hands passage) is clearly the entire Body of Christ, not any individual member. The context is Matthew 18:15-20, which talks about removing church members through excommunication. When parts of the Body of Christ become diseased, they are to be removed.

The first time the cutting off of hands analogy appears, however, is Matthew 5:29, and the context is Christ’s followers purging sin from themselves by following even harsher standards than that of the scribes and Pharisees. The analogy is meant to tell us how much we should despise sin in the flesh, and the zeal we should have in getting rid of it, not to inspire literal amputations. We are to be perfect as Our Heavenly Father is perfect.

Neither passage in Matthew has any bearing on the meaning of Romans 13, which is a direct command given to believers in order to preserve the order and dignity of the church. One mocks these instructions at their own peril of judgment by Our Lord on behalf of the Holy Spirit who gave those instructions to Paul.

This is from an article published in Adventist Today. Many in the SDA church are realizing that their present state of doctrinal requirements, such as strict adherence to the sabbath, following the dietary laws, and life style requirements, are quite legalistic so the focus is on strict adherence to the 28 fundamental beliefs. This article speaks to this tension.


An uncomfortable tension

The Adventist Church has put itself in a bind. By codifying belief into a creed, it has essentially turned from the radical trust in Jesus that both Scripture and Ellen White proclaimed, and has shackled itself to a legalistic structure that cannot bring life. If it continues down this road, the church risks losing its soul even while clinging to its shell.

In practice, enforcement varies. In some parts of Europe and North America, pastors emphasize commitment to Christ and community more than box-checking all 28 beliefs. But in South America, Africa, and conservative regions of the U.S., enforcement is strict, and a member or employee who questions a belief risks discipline or dismissal. What Ellen White warned against has become official policy, though not always universally applied.

It leaves us with an uncomfortable tension. The prophet who declared “The Bible, and the Bible alone, is our creed” has been made the prophet of a denomination that demands assent to a creed. Depending on where you live, you may feel those iron bands more or less tightly.

A possible solution

What can save the Church from itself? The General Conference could begin by retiring the language of “28 Fundamental Beliefs” as a test of fellowship, and instead present them as a dynamic, growing “Statement of Faith in Progress,” open to re-examination in light of Scripture and the Spirit’s leading. Baptismal vows could be rewritten to center on faith in Christ alone, not assent to a creed. The Church Manual could be revised to explicitly affirm that no creed other than the Bible itself binds the conscience.

Such steps wouldn’t destroy Adventism’s identity—they would rescue it. They would return the movement to its original DNA, when early Adventists rejected creeds as “the mark of the beast” and proclaimed the Bible as sufficient for salvation. Unless Adventism rediscovers this heartbeat, it may survive as an institution—but not as a Spirit-filled movement.

The church stands at a crossroads. One road leads deeper into legalism, where creeds harden, enforcement grows harsher, and grace is eclipsed by intellectual conformity. The other leads back to its origins: a bold trust in the love of Christ, righteousness by faith, and the Bible alone as the rule of faith and practice.

A return to righteousness by faith is the church’s only salvation. By it we preach the true Gospel to all the world and prepare for the return of Jesus Christ.


Has the SDA fallen into legalism as the article implies?

St. John the Baptist, despite his continued imprisonment, had heard about the works Jesus was doing and sent two of his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?” John was no pushover, not some reed swayed by the wind, but from this question we can gather that while John sat in Herod’s prison some doubt arose about whether Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah.

Notice how Jesus reacts to the question. He does not lose his temper or condemn them for asking. He gives them a helpful response: “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have the good news proclaimed to them. And blessed is the one who takes no offense at me.” In other words: “Report to John my mighty works for these show that I am the Messiah of whom Isaiah wrote (e.g., ‘Then will the eyes of the blind be opened, the ears of the deaf be cleared; then will the lame leap like a stag, then the tongue of the mute will sing.’) How I accomplish my purposes may appear strange, but remember that a person who takes no offense at me is blessed.” Jesus was patient with people who asked him questions in good faith.

Nicodemus did not want to be seen in public with Jesus. That’s why Nicodemus approached him at night. But Jesus still engaged with his questions. The Samaritan woman at the well may have first thought the man speaking to her was weird, but Jesus invited her probing questions. And the rich young man who asked Jesus about the way to eternal life wasn’t quite ready to fully commit to following Christ, but Jesus looked at him, loved him, and gave personalized responses. Despite their flaws, they asked Jesus questions in good faith and Jesus answered them. What Jesus does not like is questions asked in bad faith.

Continued below.

essentialsaltes said:

Rising tensions and finger-pointing at DHS amid pressure to ramp up deportations​

White House pressure to ramp up deportations has sparked rising tension and finger-pointing inside the Department of Homeland Security, with the agency’s secretary, Kristi Noem, and her top adviser blaming subordinates for not hitting arrest quotas and undermining their relationships inside the West Wing, according to two DHS officials with direct knowledge of the matter.

Noem and her close adviser Corey Lewandowski have sought to deflect blame from themselves for any White House frustration with the pace and scope of the deportations, pinning it instead on the leaders of the agencies in charge of immigration enforcement — acting ICE Director Todd Lyons and Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Rodney Scott, the DHS officials said.

Underscoring the turmoil, Scott recently expressed concern to colleagues that Lewandowski is able to monitor his emails, the two officials and another DHS official said, sparking concern among other top staffers that their messages were being reviewed.

“Everyone in leadership is so worried about what they say in email and text,” one of the top staffers said.

The rising tensions within DHS come as deportation numbers continue to lag behind the administration’s goals, with Trump nearing the one-year mark of his second term.

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Trump was stupid if he thought he could deport tens of millions of people in four years anyway. What he should do is just deport if they get caught otherwise breaking the law, OR if they apply for assistance as long as they are pulling their own weight and being productive let them be.

Hearing now that one of those who was wounded, is a survivor of the October 7th Islamic terrorist attack in Israel.
Imagine the horror of surviving that atrocity a little over two years ago, moving to Australia to get away from the dangers of living with Hamas on your border, and then getting attacked again by more Islamic terrorists and shot while going to a menorah lighting on the beach on the other side of the planet.

Hentenza said:

The Christian keeps Jesus two live commandments, not the commandments of the Mosaic law, and the Christian rest is in Christ not on a day. In addition keeping the commandments is a result of salvation not for salvation as your group preaches. Legalism is not scriptural.

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Well, that day, is Today

16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

1Tonne said:

is on what Scripture teaches about eternal consequences for those who reject Him, which is part of that bigger picture.

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Tares = adversity. Again even the tares have shells like man. What is their fate? What the tares represent lives on but what happens to the tares?

Have you people not heard of Purim?

Dressing up and so on.

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Oompa Loompa said:

What is our cultural identity?

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That's an interesting question. I don't think you've said.

Oompa Loompa said:

But the point that I was trying to raise is that if people have difficulty trying to identify what about our cultural identity that is uniquely American, how can they possibly know when it is lost?

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How can you know?

Two Advent traditions not mentioned in that article are the Advent Wreath and the Jesse Tree.

Every year since we got married, my wife and I have marked the time leading up to Christmas with an Advent wreath. Although it's a bit late to start one this year, here is a great article that explains its purpose and symbolism.

When the kids were growing up, we gathered with a group of other families and a few singles to decorate a Jesse Tree. Each adult and child who participated created an ornament based on a biblical story from Salvation history. They shared the story and then hung the ornament on the tree. Here is an article

The tree was simply a branch scavenged from a forest preserve, painted gold, and placed in a coffee can filled with sand. Most of the ornaments were made from paper or everyday household items. The neighbor kids would tease our kids about our Charlie Brown tree.

Unfortunately, most of the people involved with that have moved or passed away. I miss it.

camille70 said:

Source?

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The Trump administration has been announcing figures, the major media does a poor job of covering it. The 31% is from a study by Doctors without Borders.

After promising to save 2Trillion, 1Trillion, DOGE says it has saved $160 billion. Those cuts have cost taxpayers $135 billion, one analysis says.​

160 B - 135B = 25B, that will cost even more in the long run

A YouTube thumbnail is the cover photo of the video. It's what you see before you click on the video itself.

Zion

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Oh, my. Another amateur talking about HQ vases (with new quotes from Dr. Max)

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FreeinChrist said:

Sign language services 'intrude' on Trump's ability to control his image, administration says

The Trump administration is arguing that requiring real-time American Sign Language interpretation of events like White House press briefings “would severely intrude on the President’s prerogative to control the image he presents to the public," part of a lawsuit seeking to require the White...

www.pbs.org

The Trump administration is arguing that requiring real-time American Sign Language interpretation of events like White House press briefings “would severely intrude on the President’s prerogative to control the image he presents to the public,” part of a lawsuit seeking to require the White House to provide the services.​

​

Department of Justice attorneys haven’t elaborated on how doing so might hamper the portrayal President Donald Trump seeks to present to the public. But overturning policies encompassing diversity, equity and inclusion have become a hallmark of his second administration, starting with his very first week back in the White House.​

​

The National Association for the Deaf sued the Trump administration in May, arguing that the cessation of American Sign Language interpretation — which the Biden administration had used regularly — represented “denying hundreds of thousands of deaf Americans meaningful access to the White House’s real-time communications on various issues of national and international import.” The group also sued during Trump’s first administration, seeking ASL interpretation for briefings related to the COVID-19 pandemic.​

​

How petty can a person be! It hurts his image??

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How petty? I don't know. fairly certain we have not reached the nadir of rectitude yet.

Now, for those of us who live in the USA, which may be true of other countries, as well, the requirement to be circumcised in the flesh (which God no longer requires), in order to prove faith, is not the issue, although it still could be for some people. But using this discussion as a “spring board,” i.e. as a starting point, I will be looking today at several parallel situations we are being faced with in the USA (and perhaps in other countries, as well).

So, what are people of faith, or of prospective faith, being compelled to do today in order to demonstrate faith in Jesus Christ, i.e. that which is not required of God? Well, some of them are being compelled to be more like Jews and to take on some of the Old Covenant liturgical and ceremonial laws and customs in order to be more like Jews. And they are being strong armed into supporting the physical nation called “Israel,” which is mostly pagan. But that is not of God, but is of human flesh, and contrary to God’s will.

[Genesis 17:7-9; Genesis 18:19; John 8:18-19,38-47; Romans 2:28-29; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Romans 9:4-8,25-28; Romans 11:1-36; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 3:16,26-29; Galatians 4:22-31; Ephesians 2:11-22; Ephesians 3:1-6; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-16; Hebrews 8:6-13;1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:22; Jude 1:5; Revelation 2:9; Revelation 3:9]

Also, the people of my nation are being compelled to accept a diluted and altered gospel message which is not of God, but of human flesh, which removes God’s requirements of us to die to sin and to walk in obedience to his commands, in the power of God, by his grace, and in daily practice. So they teach the Scriptures out of context, and they twist them to teach lies in order to convince the masses that all that is required is lip service only, i.e. a profession of faith in Jesus absent of true repentance and obedience to God.

And then there are the legalists who add on to the gospel what is not of God, but which is of man, which is what the Judaizers were doing, too. And so they make requirements about certain days of the week or about food and drink and clothing and religious formalities and customs, but while some of them are living hypocritical lives, while they are “straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.” For they obsess over tiny insignificant details while they ignore larger problems involving moral purity, sin, and disobedience to God.

So, why do they do this? Partly it has to do with control over the people, to get them to do what they require or desire, because they are obsessed with power. And so they want us to be like minions, all following the same false gods, believing the lies they tell us so that they have control. And then there is the issue of greed, either for money and/or for positions of power and control. And then it has to do with pride, with them looking good to the people to make a good showing so that they will be praised and worshiped.

But then there are those who are the charlatans (fakes, swindlers, con artists and pretenders) and the “wolves in sheep’s clothing” who make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ in order to deceive the masses, but who are truly out to kill, to steal, and to destroy the sheep of Jesus’ pasture by getting us to believe their lies and to put them into practice. Their goal is to get us to reject God’s commands of obedience and death to sin, and to convince us that we can keep on in our sin and still have salvation from sin.

But Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

Seek the Lord

Based off Isaiah 55
An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Musical Instrumentation by Mark Bradley

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

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They Try to Compel You
An Original Work / December 14, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

God bless you. God, the God of life, has nothing but good news for us when we turn to Him, determined to live fully in His counsel, as Jesus lives in God. The peace of God and the presence of God be upon you in this time of physical turmoil you are experiencing. May the love of God become your anchor and your fortress and may you walk in God's counsel, goodness, and mercy. In Jesus' name. Amen.

TDS phantasia is real
imagination can be a powerful thing

HARK! said:

They debunk the chart.

Chart debunked. Moving on.

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Your math doesn't math.

I

Michie said:

Catholic leaders in Australia have responded with prayer and condemnation of antisemitism following what police described as a terrorist attack on a Hanukkah celebration at Sydney’s Bondi Beach on Sunday that left 12 people dead and 29 others injured.

Archbishop Anthony Fisher of Sydney called for prayer and the intercession of the Virgin Mary in the immediate aftermath of the Dec. 14 shooting, which authorities said included one of the alleged gunmen among the dead.

“As we follow the horrific news coming from this evening’s shooting at Bondi Beach, let us pray for those who have been killed or injured,” Fisher said in a statement released shortly after the attack. “May Our Lady, Queen of Peace, intercede for all affected, and for our beloved city at this time.”

The archbishop also offered prayers for the “many who were forced to run for their lives” and for emergency service workers responding at the scene.

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Sydney archbishop urges prayer after deadly attack leaves 12 dead at Bondi Beach Hanukkah event

Sydney Archbishop Anthony Fisher and Bishop Conference President Timothy Costelloe call for prayer after a terrorist attack leaves at least 12 people dead.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

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it seems like attacks of this nature were more common here in the USA but now they’re everywhere. It’s so scary.

So many! It's hard to pick. I love Christmas music, both sacred and secular. I'll go with these:

Favorite Christmas carols:
Hark, the Herald Angels Sing
O Come, All Ye Faithful

Favorite religious Christmas songs no one's ever heard of:
Tomorrow Shall Be My Dancing Day
A Stable Lamp is LIghted

Favorite Advent song:
People Look East

Favorite secular December songs:
The Christmas Song
Silver Bells
The Holly and the Ivy

ThatRobGuy said:

No, what I'm saying is that you had replied to my reply to another user. And that user was conveying something different than what you were conveying. I didn't mean that you (individually) were providing mixed messages.

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Ah! Thanks for the clarification.