I am going to try and outline the main points of your argument and add a rebuttal. If I have misunderstood any of them, please clarify.
1. Claim:
Romans 1–3 speaks only of unbelieving Jews (Pharisees), not all humanity.
To be honest, it seems prudent to accurately represent my post. Here is the actual claim.
"What this world's religions do not take into account, is who Paul is speaking about in Romans 1-3. Specifically those Pharisees who had been given the Oracles of God, but many didn't believe them.
He was teaching all of humanity, but the foundation of his teaching was to expose the mainstream preachers of his time.
Response:
Paul is very clear that his argument in Romans 1–3 encompasses
the entire human race, not just the Pharisees.
The phrase “both Jews and Gentiles” shows that Paul’s point is
universal guilt, not merely Pharisaic hypocrisy.
He later sums it up in
Romans 3:23 — “for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.
While it is true that all men have sinned, it's important to understand who Paul and Jesus were fighting with here, and who God's Wrath was with in the Law and Prophets. And who was promoting falsehoods about God in Paul's time.
And also, it wasn't "All mankind" that was persecuting the Church of God. It isn't "all mankind" "whose throat is an open sepulcher". The popular teaching that Paul is saying there is no difference between the rebellious Jews and the Church of God is popular, and you have clearly adopted it. But given what is actually written, Paul isn't teaching that at all. Please consider all of his words here.
Rom. 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it "unto them".
I hope you will engage in honest discourse here and address a few questions that I have for you.
"Who did God Show Himself to, in the The Law and Prophets, where the righteousness and wrath of God is revealed, where is it written, "The Just shall Live by Faith"? Did God give His Oracles to the entire Human Race? Or did HE give His Oracles, that show "
that which may be known of God", to Israel?
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that "they" are without excuse:
Who are "without excuse", those who were led astray by the corrupt Shepherds, or those who "led them astray"? Didn't Jesus come to save the lost? "
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel.
Why were they lost, were there not Priest's and Scribes and the Holy Scriptures and prophets, etc? I think Paul answers this.
21 Because that, when "they" knew God, "they" glorified him "not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
32 Who "knowing the judgment of God", that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Who were given the Judgments of God? Gentiles, or Jews?
In Romans 2:
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Who was Judging Paul, Judged and killed the Prophets and Jesus, and persecuted the Church of God all the way back to David and before?? Was it not Jews who professed to know God? Doesn't Paul answer this question in
Rom. 2?
17 Behold, "thou" art called "a Jew", and restest in the law, and makest "thy" boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, "being instructed" out of the law;
Isn't Paul still talking about those who "Knew God" here, but Glorified Him not as God?
19 And art confident "that thou thyself" art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 "An instructor" of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore "which teachest" another, teachest thou not thyself? thou "that preachest" a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles" through you, as it is written.
Can you not see that it wasn't the "entire human race" that Paul is speaking about here, that were leading others astray, that caused the name of God to be blasphemed among the Gentiles. It was the Shepherds that Moses and the Prophets warned about, that Jesus warned about over and over and over and over. Men who professed to know God, but rejected His Judgments and Laws.
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
And then he continues in Romans 3:
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that "unto them" were committed "the oracles of God".
3 For what if some did not believe? shall "their unbelief" make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Supporting texts:
- Romans 5:12 — “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men.”
- Ephesians 2:1–3 — All were “by nature children of wrath.”
Paul’s point:
everyone needs justification through Christ, not just corrupt religious leaders.
It is true that everyone needs to be learned of the Father, and given to the Lord's Christ for saving. But I was speaking to Roman's 1-3, in which Paul was explaining what happened to Priest's and religious leaders of the world, who persecuted David and Paul and Jesus.
It is the corrupt religious leaders which lead men astray if they are inclined to listen to them. The Entire Law and Prophets is a warning about listening to the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in. I already know what this world's religious leaders teach about Paul's message, that "
the entire human race" is no different than the rebellious Jews
. That there was no difference between the rebellious Jews, and the Church of God that Paul was a part of.
That in "ALL" of mankind "
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Neither Paul, nor David that he quoted, promote such a philosophy that you have adopted and are promoting. I was hoping that you might actually read Psalms 5 and 14, and consider what Paul is actually saying, so as to understand who is "Still under sin" and who is not.
That is still my hope.
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