So the two best vases can be traced to 1979 and 1968, that's not impressive provenance.
First its no just two vases. These were the most impressive. But many others fell within the precision class and on par with modern machining. Were well above the orthodox methods in being made that way.
I think some perspective needs to be made when we are talking about the so called lesser precise vases from the two mentioned. We are talking about what amounts to a human hair or two in the best ones in deviation and around 3 or 4 thicknesses of paper at worst of the ones below this within the precision class.
Thats at their worst which is usually the widest parts of the vase. Other measurements in places such as faltness and roundness of lips, necks alignments of handles ect are still within similar precision to the two best vases.
Second this is only one test. There are several others that add to the list of precision vases. The best one from the tests done by Karoyl from the Petrie museum coming in at 0.004 on the outside and amazingly 0.003 on an inch on the inside. But also several fell within the modern machining precision and certainly impossible by the orthodox method on the walls or tried in experiments.
Third we have machine marks. Forget about all the metrology. The fact that they have witness marks of modern machining and not the signatures of the orthodox method is direct evidence for the method.
So together the machining marks and the near precision this adds up to clear evidence that the tech and knowledge these ancients had is above what the orthodox narrative of bent sticks and bow saw methods. In fact there was no bow saws, bent stick cutters or even the potters wheel. This is the out of place evidence.
Mind is what the brain does. Electric activity in the brain is experienced as our mind and conciousness by the brain.
Yes just as I said, material science sees consciouness as an epiphenomena of the electrical signals in the brain which is the physical processes and causes. Everything can be explained by these physical/material processes. There is nothing real beyond this.
So all the religions, beliefs, and experiences had for the majority of human history by the majority of humans is all an epiphenomena and in one way of another it is unreal as far as giving any deeper knowledge of the world and reality. Its make belief, superstition, imagination, even illusion or delusion as far as giving any real knowledge of the world.
Apart from helping humans survive of course. Which is just another way of saying that its a by produce of evolutionary processes which have no regard for meaning, belief, gods ect as real by aids to survival such as coperation. Is that right.
Matt Beall kluster 2 is the imprecise class, as you can see V18 is not included and all the modern vases are mostly better than kluster 2 (also observe that this figure is not plotted on logarithmic scale). They overlap with the Petrie and Olgas vase.
View attachment 370944
Here's a plot showing both kluster 1 and kluster 2 from here (
Precision and Classification of Predynastic Egyptian Stone Vessels: REVISED)
View attachment 370949
Even if true, what does saying ancient technology and lost knowledge contribute?
A lot actually. First it recognises that there is advanced knowledge that may have been lost. I find this ironic in modern times because its been a big political issue about how Indigenous people have been losing their knowledge to western colonialisation and wesrern science imposing its parpadigms on Indigneous peoples.
If there is lost advanced knowledge that could produce such works and feats then it would be good to try and investigate what exactly this was. That skeptics think its nothing to discover in how they see it. BUt what if there are alternative ways of knowing the world and reality itself that may help in understanding reality.
Like I said its almost as though modern thinking and ideas are returning to something transcedent in possible ways of explaing reality because after a few hundred years of enlightened science and dispite coming up with all sorts of material explainations we are at a loss as far as unifying physics and many anomelies in the sciences.
These anomelies and contraditions in our theories are not for a lack of more research and material explanations. BUt are categorically the wrong kind of explanations and knowledge.
It reminds me of the antedote of how the worlds bests academics are climbing the mountain of information and explanations of find the truth to existence and reality. Only to find an ancient Monk meditating and saying "I've been waiting for you" lol.
No, the vases with good provenance does not show that kind of precision.
I think you losing sight of the forrest through the trees. The vases you think don't fall into the high precision of near perfect are still high precision as far as the times they were made. They still fall within modern machining tech method. They have witness marks of machining on them.
They could not have been made by the methods claimed and in fact there was no such methods in that time. So even if we say the vases are a fair way of perfect. They are still within the range of modern maching and there was not even a potters wheel around. If we drop the precision to (roughly precise) suddenly we have literally dozens with excellect provedence to contend with that clearly show could not have been made by the orthodox method as there was no such method in existence.
To add to this if you want to say that perhaps some fairly good potters wheel or advanced bent stick device may have made these. Then you have the same problem that skeptics are saying that because we have not found such devices that this is just spectulation.
