• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Another look at the moon landing.

-
The science community is one, one in deceiving people that they can do something that man can not actually do. Also in deceiving people about God's creation.

Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. Then they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”
But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

I once mention Babel on here but as per just got laughed off.
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Average consumer now carries $6,329 in credit card debt. 'People are stretched,' expert says

So are rare coins, but selling them is harder than you'd think. I learned this in the 1970's, when I had some almost uncirculated coins that weren't worthy much over face value, but enough I could sell for Christmas money. Took them to the nearest collector coins dealer, a store that sold rare coins in individual pouches. There I learned that while he sold them, he didn't buy them from the public, and the nearest place he knew that did was several hundred miles away. I'd already made a trip of 50+ miles one-way just to get to a store that sold coins. Thus I learned what something is valued is one thing; what you can get for it is another.
Rare coins do not have the same value all over the world. Not many Chinese are seeking a double die US penny. However, the spot price for gold and silver is the same in China, as it is in the US, once the exchange rate between the dollar and the yuan is worked out.

You might have to travel more than 50 miles in either the US or China; if you want to find a money exchange to convert dollars to yuan, or vice versa.
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Gor worshiper or Law Worshiper?

Looking back to when I was a young Christian I believe I fell into worshiping the law rather than the law giver. Like the crippled man at the pool of siloam looking to the pool to "save" him, I looked at the law. It was a very stern master finally whipped me into dispair. It is too long of s story to share here but I came to the point of letting go of any kind of God concept and then I met the law giver and relized what He did to procure the gift He was offering me. This is how I have come to undestand where his law fits into His boundless Grace and unconditionsal love.

1. The Law’s True Purpose

Paul never said the law was bad — he said it had a specific role:

“Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
Galatians 3:24
The law reveals God’s holiness and our sinfulness — it drives us to God for mercy. But once faith comes, the believer’s relationship with the law changes:

“But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
Galatians 3:25
The law shows what righteousness looks like; Christ provides the power and forgiveness to live it.


2. Law-Keeping “by the Flesh” — Self-Righteousness

When Paul speaks of “the flesh,” he means human effort apart from God’s Spirit.

“For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.”
Romans 10:3
That’s what Paul calls law-keeping by the flesh — obeying rules to earn favor, to prove oneself righteous, or to feel spiritually superior.

This was his own past error:

“As to righteousness which is in the law, blameless… but what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.”
Philippians 3:6–7
He had kept the letter of the law, but he didn’t yet know the heart of the Lawgiver. Once he met Christ, he saw that all his efforts without faith were empty.


3. Law-Keeping “by Faith” — Spirit-Empowered Obedience

When we come to God by faith, the Spirit enables us to walk in obedience from the inside out.

“That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Romans 8:4
This is law-keeping by faith: not to earn salvation, but as the fruit of a heart transformed by grace. It’s what Jeremiah and Ezekiel foresaw when they spoke of the law written on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26–27).

The believer’s obedience flows from love, not fear:

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
Galatians 5:6

4. Worshiping God, Not the Law

Paul’s entire gospel defends worship of the Lawgiver rather than the law itself.

  • The law worshiper says, “I will prove my loyalty by keeping every command.”
  • The God worshiper says, “Because I love Him, I want to walk in His ways.”
Both might look outwardly obedient — but only one is inwardly free.

Paul put it beautifully:

“We… worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”
Philippians 3:3

Men now surpass women in church attendance, especially among Gen X, millennials: Barna

Where do you get that idea? Every example I shared is independent. They’re not standing in pulpits. They built profitable entities for their work.

~bella
I'm talking about secular roles.

I remember in the 60s when Germaine Greer spoke of women entering tradtionally masculine roles but bringing a feminine (not feminist) influence into those roles. But I don't see a feminine influence, I see a feminist influence...which isn't the same thing. I see a pseudo-masculinity instead. Making the same mistakes and calling it "feminist." My daughter sees the same thing.
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The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Thank you.


We are free to categorize God's laws in whatever way that want but we should not interpret the authors of the Bible as if they had in mind a list of laws that we created. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as with the law against theft being a hand law, but just because I can do that does not establish that the authors of the Bible categorized God's laws in the same manner or that they would agree with me that the law against theft best fits as a hand law, so I would quickly run into error if I were to interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to hand laws.

Moreover, the category of moral law is especially problematic for reasons that I stated in my previous post. the Bible makes no attempt to distinguish between some laws are being moral or not, but rather all of God's laws are timeless duties grounded in His character. Just because something is a civil or ceremonial issue doesn't mean that it is not also a moral issue, such as with marriage being a civil, ceremonial, and moral issue. Holiness is a timeless duty grounded in God's character, so holiness is a moral issue and many of God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy are often considered by people to be ceremonial laws.
I would add that God's physical laws are also a part of His law. Things like gravity etc.
The goal of God's law is to graciously teach us how to know Him by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, so His character traits are the weightier matter of His law.


Everything in God's law is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. The way to love God is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of God's law is to graciously teach us how to love different aspects of His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments. The only way that we should cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy and if someone refuses to follow those instructions, then holiness is an aspect of God's character that they should not love.


God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore any instructions that He has ever given for how to be a doer of His righteousness are also eternally valid (Psalms 119:160), and if the way to be a doer of God's righteousness were temporary, then God's righteousness would also be temporary. God's way is the way to know Him and Jesus by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law points us to Christ because it was graciously given in order to teach us how to know Him and we should live in a way that points to Christ by follow his example of obedience to it rather than a way that points away from him.


That verse could not be referring to a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit murder or sinful to do charity, but rather the context is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would regard a change of the law in regard to its administration. A priesthood led by God's Word made flesh does not involve a departure from following God's Word.


God's law is am important foreshadow that testifies about the good things that are to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about the good things that are to come by following Christ example of obedience to it rather than a way that bears false witness against the good things that to come.


Ephesians 2:15 could not be referring to any of God's laws because all of God's laws are eternal. God did not make any mistakes when He gave His law, so He had no need to abolish His eternal character traits or any of His eternal instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits. God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs to love our neighbors as ourselves. In Ephesians 2:10-15, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so it would make any sense to think that Christ abolished his instructions for how to do good works, and indeed, the Greek word "dogma" is never used by the Bible to refer to the Law of God.

In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, without God and hope in their world, which is all in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of the Law of God, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is all in accordance with Gentiles becoming doers of the Law of God.


The purpose of God's law is to teach us how to have an intimate relationship with him by walking in His way, which is something that we need to keep on fulfilling.


Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it doesn't work to interpret them in a way that turns them against following what they considered to be an authoritative source. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so he affirmed God as being an authoritative source. In Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so Jesus and the Apostles did not do that. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for him is if they speak against obeying His law, so Jesus and the Apostles did not do that. It does work to interpret Jesus as speaking against obeying what God spoke in Deuteronomy 14 or to interpret the Apostles as speaking against following over 99% of what Christ taught.


Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under it.


In Colossians 2:16-23, the Colossians were keeping God's feasts in obedience to His commands, they were being judged for doing that by pagans who were promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone prevent them from obeying God. Those promoting asceticism and severity to the body would be judging people for celebrating feasts, not for refraining from doing that.


Christ was not in disagreement with what God commanded.


Changing the medium upon which God's law is written from on stone to on our hearts does not change the content of what it instructs. For example, the command to honor our parents written on stone has the same content as the command to honor our parents written on our hearts. God has not commanded anything that wasn't in perfect accordance with living by the Spirit, which is why Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God (Romans 8:4-7). The character traits of God that the Law of God was graciously given in order to teach us how to embody that are the moral will of God are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).


God's character traits of eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to be a doer of them are eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. While God can progressively reveal more instructions about how to be a doer of His character traits, those instructions will always be in accordance with what He has previously revealed. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if it cumulative with it. One thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality, so a computer makes a typewriter obsolete but does not make a plow obsolete, which means that if the New Covenant involved doing something different that was not cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, then it could not make it obsolete. So the New Covenant still involves following the Law of God (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of God by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Law of God (Jeremiah 31:33).
Great post
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Why do people hate ICE...

This could be the most stupid thing ive read in at least a few days.

Your characterization seems so utterly bereft of reality it's like you didn't even need to think when you posted this at all.


Honestly do you want to have a discussion based on reality or is this juat gonna be some Trump repeating drivel?

Because intelligent people won't be interested in that.
These are real political ideas being supported and promoted. History repeating itself.

What is the Left case for open borders?

5.2: Marxism, Migrants and Borders
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Should Trump have been banned from running for president?

Do you think Donald Trump should've been banned from running for president?

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that Donald Trump was allowed to run for president again after everything that happened on January 6th, 2021. The Capitol riots weren’t just a random protest that got out of hand they were a direct result of months of Trump spreading lies about a “stolen” election and pressuring officials to overturn the results.


A sitting president encouraged his supporters to march on Congress during the certification of an election he lost, and people died because of it. That alone should’ve disqualified him from holding office again under the 14th Amendment (Section 3), which literally bans anyone who engaged in or incited an insurrection from serving in government.


On top of that, there are his criminal indictments... from trying to interfere in Georgia’s election results to mishandling classified documents. Any one of those cases would’ve ended most politicians’ careers, but somehow Trump’s using them as campaign fuel.

I
Whether you’re left, right, or independent, how does this not set a terrifying precedent? If someone can try to overturn an election and still be allowed to run again, what’s stopping future leaders from doing the same — maybe more effectively next time?

It's dangerous to allow a man like hin to have power.

What do you think?should the courts or Congress have acted to enforce the insurrection clause?
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Drunk Driver Criminal Illegal Alien Leaves Six Dead, Gavin Newsom Releases Serial Criminal

This happened a month ago. The man had been deported seven times, and sneaks back in again. Not seeing where he was given sanctuary.

The one killed were farmworkers.

All Mexican nationals and residents of Stockton, the six deceased passengers have been identified as:​
  • 39-year-old Aaron Ruiz Ruiz
  • 32-year-old Beymar Reynosa Rodriguez
  • 39-year-old Demetrio Celerino Francisco
  • 57-year-old Pedro Lopez Gomez
  • 42-year-old Loreto Ricardo Hernandez
  • 34-year-old Fernando Silverio

It was a terrible accident. This time they should keep in jail for many years and not just deport him. They should keep him till he dies. imo. I suspect the families of those killed want him permanently jailed.

I don't see where Newsom "released him". The DHS is putting a propaganda spin on all this.
ICE released details in the posted link on October 9th. They said: "California previously ignored ICE arrest detainer on Beto Cerillo-Bialva and released him back on to California’s roads."
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Who then can be saved?

Let’s finish that verse in Ephesians you started to quote.
I didn't start to quote it I quoted it. :)

The Bible teaches we are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8 Grace is God’s gift to give or not give
It says we are saved by grace through faith which is a gift. God chooses sinners who have no faith and grants them (us) saving faith so he can enact his salvation on us. Remember, salvation belongs to the Lord. It is His to give and not ours to take.

Show me where it says that it is up to us to choose to be saved and not God who chooses us.
Still doesn't change what God said who will enter into His Kingdom- the doers of the Word Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14 the hearers only sadly just deceive themselves James 1:22. I will never understand how people think an example of faith is disregarding what Jesus tells us. Not in an isolated verse, but all of His teachings and by example- for us to follow 1 Peter 2:21-23 1 John 2:6.

Our actions demonstrate if our faith is genuine or not why we are judged by our works 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15, those who receive grace is because all have sinned, it doesn't mean we have to keep sinning if in Christ, in fact we are told there are a people who overcome Rev 14:12 which this faith reconciles back to God Rev 22:14. There is no Scripture that says everyone will be saved. Jesus made that clear Mat7:21-23

An example of grace...

Being pulled over for speeding, asking the police officer for mercy. He gives a warning instead of a ticket. Does that void the law. Does that mean one can rev up their engine and speed away. Of course not.

This is the same as what Jesus taught. When He gave grace to the adulterous women, did He say go now and keep on sinning. No He said the opposite- Go and Sin no more- meaning stop breaking My commandments.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are to confess and forsake our sins, not continuing living in sin. Pro 28:13 that means a heart change, turning from sin, abiding in Christ, keeping God's commandments John 15:10 why would anyone who is in Christ not want to. He doesn't even make us do this alone John 14:15-18 but it requires our cooperation, but sadly many refuse Rom 8:7-8 because they like their sins more than their love for Jesus to seek His help in forsaking them. John 3:19-21

We are not saved in our sins, we are saved from sin Mat 1:21


Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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The Schumer Shutdown

Education Department wipes out special ed office in shutdown layoffs, union says

I'm so glad this trump administration is such a strong promoter of Christian values, like justice, compassion, supporting the poor and vulnerable and disabled, supporting the alien and oppressed minorities, telling the truth, investigating scientific realities like climate change and vaccines and other facts in this universe God created. It's just so wonderful to see the Christian influence hard at work!
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Emergency abortion denials by Catholic hospitals put woman in danger, after her water broke at 17 weeks, lawsuit claims

That's good to know. But the Catholic put a woman in danger. When she should have sent to labor and delivery. They should have induced her labor. At the very least, it was dangerous not to give medical care.
As far as we know, the woman was already in danger before presenting herself to the hospital. So I think it is incorrect to claim a Catholic put her in danger. One must remember that in these extreme cases of emergency pregnancies, Catholic doctors know that they are treating two patients -- mother and child. We do not know if the woman would only allow a direct abortion and refused a managed delivery or not.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

I find it amusing that you view yourself as intellectually sophisticated given that the core of your arguments is never anything more than assumption and assertion.
Do all atheists possess your supernatural mind reading skills? It seems so. It is their usual predicate to post their strawman arguments.

By my reckoning there are 2 atheistic types in these boards:

1) He who knows not,
and knows not that he knows not,
is a fool; shun him.

2) He who knows not,
and knows that he knows not,
is a student; Teach him.

You will know how I categorize you in the absence of any further replies to you.


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Letita Jamews indicted for fraud

But her wrong while she did her own wrong is rather ironic, don' you think? She was blinded by the beam in her own eye.

Ironic? No. A travesty? Yes. Much more is expected of our national leader and leader in the international community. I expected the President to act Presidential as opposed to lowering the esteem of the office to what a state official has done.
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A perspective on Baptism and the plan of salvation that I have not heard before

If Mary was "kept" from sinning, then there is nothing praiseworthy of her sinlessness.

Mary was conceived with the same nature as every other human since the fall of Adam.
I read somewhere that Luther believed that from the moment the Holy Spirit conceived our Lord Jesus, until he was born, Mary did not sin. Luther applied human reason and concluded that while she carried our Lord in her womb, our Lord being sinless, meant that she could not sin until He was outside of her. Human reason can be a risky thing when interpreting Scripture. God found favor in her, therefore I must also favor and honor her.

Regarding the perpetual virginity, her womb was where God dwelled, like the Tabernacle or the Holy of Holies; Joseph, understanding Jesus as Lord, and being a Jew, would understand this and not lie with here out of respect for his Lord God.
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How do we set aside the grace of God?

They did not earn their righteousness as the result of obeying the either the Law of God or works of the law, but rather the one and only way to become righteous is through faith and they embodied that righteousness by being a doer of the Law of God.
Talk about trying to play it both ways.

Everyone always and only want the blessings, and NEVER the cursing.

When the law was read after the temple was re-established, the people wept, knowing they had curses from God, heavily applied, because of the unavoidable fact and conclusion of their lawlessness.

Haggai 2:9
The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the Lord of hosts.

Aren't you thankful God, in law particularly, is against the lawlessness we all bear, and can not avoid having within us?

Evil comes from within. There is no dodging or escaping the fact. Is that evil ever lawful? Ever obedient? Ever faithful? Sorry, it never happened. Not then. Not today.

And honest person will come to an honest conclusion. No amount of tears or even repentance will change the fact of it.
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Weekly homilies

Monday, October 13 2025

28th OT



Rom 1:1-7

"Through him we have received the grace of apostleship."



We receive God's grace. For the sake of our mission, let us listen to what the Holy Spirit, the Love of God, says to our hearts.



Luke 11:29-32

Jesus said:

"This generation is an evil generation."



In fact, it means that many people seek God when God is already with them.



What God created is good. Let us welcome the grace of God that is within us.



Biblical texts: NAB-RE

Normand Thomas.
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Twenty-Eighth Sunday in Ordinary Time (Year C)






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