• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

JD Vance, Elon Musk blast Church of England for God-mocking graffiti: 'They're debasing themselves'

A new exhibit at the historic Canterbury Cathedral in the United Kingdom that features graffiti questioning God's goodness prompted Vice President J.D. Vance, Elon Musk and others to claim the Church of England is humiliating itself.

The art exhibit, titled "Hear Us," features temporary graffiti in the church that aims to highlight minorities while posing difficult questions to God, according to a press release from the cathedral.

This project focuses on partnering with marginalized communities — such as Punjabi, black and brown diaspora, neurodivergent, and LGBTQIA+ groups — to collaboratively create handwritten literature responding to the question, 'What would you ask God?'" said the cathedral, whose dean, the Very Rev. David Monteith, approved of the project.


"Are you there?" and "Why did you create hate when love is by far more powerful?" are among the questions posed by the exhibit headed by Alex Vellis, a poet who identifies as a queer vegan and uses they/them pronouns. Other messages include, "Does everything have a soul?" and "Do you regret your creation?"

"Is illness sin?" said another message. Others asked, "Why all the suffering?" and "If you made us all in your own form, why the violence killing storm?"

Continued below.

Brandon Lake sweeps 2025 Dove Awards, brings down the house alongside Jelly Roll with 'Hard Fought Hallelujah'

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — This year’s GMA Dove Awards highlighted the power of collaboration and unity, as Brandon Lake swept the night’s biggest honors and brought down the house alongside Jelly Roll with one of the ceremony’s most memorable performances.

Held Tuesday at Bridgestone Arena for the first time in the show's history, the 56th annual Dove Awards celebrated faith-driven artistry across genres, from worship and hip-hop to Latin and country, with messages of humility, hope and shared purpose emphasized throughout the night.

Lake took home the most awards of the night with five, including Songwriter of the Year and Song of the Year for “Hard Fought Hallelujah," a collaboration with Jelly Roll.

Accepting the award, Lake gestured toward the crowd. “I was telling my great friend Dr. John Maxwell about this collaboration,” he said. “He told me, ‘Stay in the church, but never stop moving toward the lost.’ That’s what this is about.”

“Millions of lives have been saved,” he added, addressing Jelly Roll. “I get all the testimonies. I want to thank you so much for sticking your neck out for me and treating me like a little brother.”

Continued below.

The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

I am going to try and outline the main points of your argument and add a rebuttal. If I have misunderstood any of them, please clarify.

1. Claim:

Romans 1–3 speaks only of unbelieving Jews (Pharisees), not all humanity.

To be honest, it seems prudent to accurately represent my post. Here is the actual claim.

"What this world's religions do not take into account, is who Paul is speaking about in Romans 1-3. Specifically those Pharisees who had been given the Oracles of God, but many didn't believe them.

He was teaching all of humanity, but the foundation of his teaching was to expose the mainstream preachers of his time.

Response:
Paul is very clear that his argument in Romans 1–3 encompasses the entire human race, not just the Pharisees.

The phrase “both Jews and Gentiles” shows that Paul’s point is universal guilt, not merely Pharisaic hypocrisy.
He later sums it up in Romans 3:23 — “for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

While it is true that all men have sinned, it's important to understand who Paul and Jesus were fighting with here, and who God's Wrath was with in the Law and Prophets. And who was promoting falsehoods about God in Paul's time.

And also, it wasn't "All mankind" that was persecuting the Church of God. It isn't "all mankind" "whose throat is an open sepulcher". The popular teaching that Paul is saying there is no difference between the rebellious Jews and the Church of God is popular, and you have clearly adopted it. But given what is actually written, Paul isn't teaching that at all. Please consider all of his words here.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it "unto them".

I hope you will engage in honest discourse here and address a few questions that I have for you.

"Who did God Show Himself to, in the The Law and Prophets, where the righteousness and wrath of God is revealed, where is it written, "The Just shall Live by Faith"? Did God give His Oracles to the entire Human Race? Or did HE give His Oracles, that show "that which may be known of God", to Israel?

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that "they" are without excuse:

Who are "without excuse", those who were led astray by the corrupt Shepherds, or those who "led them astray"? Didn't Jesus come to save the lost? "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel.

Why were they lost, were there not Priest's and Scribes and the Holy Scriptures and prophets, etc? I think Paul answers this.

21 Because that, when "they" knew God, "they" glorified him "not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

32 Who "knowing the judgment of God", that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Who were given the Judgments of God? Gentiles, or Jews?

In Romans 2: 1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Who was Judging Paul, Judged and killed the Prophets and Jesus, and persecuted the Church of God all the way back to David and before?? Was it not Jews who professed to know God? Doesn't Paul answer this question in Rom. 2?

17 Behold, "thou" art called "a Jew", and restest in the law, and makest "thy" boast of God,

18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, "being instructed" out of the law;

Isn't Paul still talking about those who "Knew God" here, but Glorified Him not as God?

19 And art confident "that thou thyself" art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 "An instructor" of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore "which teachest" another, teachest thou not thyself? thou "that preachest" a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles" through you, as it is written.

Can you not see that it wasn't the "entire human race" that Paul is speaking about here, that were leading others astray, that caused the name of God to be blasphemed among the Gentiles. It was the Shepherds that Moses and the Prophets warned about, that Jesus warned about over and over and over and over. Men who professed to know God, but rejected His Judgments and Laws.

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

And then he continues in Romans 3:

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that "unto them" were committed "the oracles of God".

3 For what if some did not believe? shall "their unbelief" make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.



Supporting texts:

  • Romans 5:12 — “By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men.”
  • Ephesians 2:1–3 — All were “by nature children of wrath.”
Paul’s point: everyone needs justification through Christ, not just corrupt religious leaders.

It is true that everyone needs to be learned of the Father, and given to the Lord's Christ for saving. But I was speaking to Roman's 1-3, in which Paul was explaining what happened to Priest's and religious leaders of the world, who persecuted David and Paul and Jesus.

It is the corrupt religious leaders which lead men astray if they are inclined to listen to them. The Entire Law and Prophets is a warning about listening to the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in. I already know what this world's religious leaders teach about Paul's message, that " the entire human race" is no different than the rebellious Jews. That there was no difference between the rebellious Jews, and the Church of God that Paul was a part of.

That in "ALL" of mankind "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Neither Paul, nor David that he quoted, promote such a philosophy that you have adopted and are promoting. I was hoping that you might actually read Psalms 5 and 14, and consider what Paul is actually saying, so as to understand who is "Still under sin" and who is not.

That is still my hope.
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Exclusive: The White House is looking to replace Pete Hegseth as defense secretary

Sure. Rubio. He's gone way, WAY out of his way to become a Trump sycophant. Frankly, it's kind of impressive how much he's sacrificed his former principles.

If you watch his expressions you’ll notice cracks in the facade. The operation in Iran is a good example. He was forcing himself to be expressionless when Trump spoke and it looked unnatural. While JD was the most relaxed followed by Pete.

~bella
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

Pride and the attractions of this world are apparently very strong and powerful draws, that this world has now wallowed in for millennia, and as they were for Adam even though he knew God in a much more direct manner than we do. Since the fateful Fall in Eden God’s been in the business of turning man back away from himself, as the highest good, to God as the highest good, for our highest good. He calls us to a higher, spiritual, aspiration.

And, once turned back to Him, He warns us to remain, to be vigilant, to persevere, to not fall away and return to the flesh, even possible apparently after having tasted of the heavenly gift (Heb 6:4-6) and having escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of Christe (2 Pet 2:20).

Yes, the nearer we've drawn to God and the greater our knowledge of Him, made possible only by His grace, the less likely it would be for us to turn away from Him. But to say that this is impossible is to deny man’s freedom along with the warnings and admonishments present in the bible. Man is free to oppose God and to sin. Only perfect love for Him, along with love of neighbor, could totally preclude this from happening-and that perfection will be completely realized only in the next life. Until then it’s ok, healthy, in fact, to have at least a little fear and trembling. Not out of mistrust of Him but out of mistrust of ourselves.
I agree with your last statement that people should not trust in themselves.

Do you believe that we have become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pe 1:4)? It doesn't seem so. But if you do, can you explain what happens to a person's divine nature when he turns away?
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The Brokenness of Christianity

A relationship with God is the most important. This helps keep you safe against false doctrine. My attitude in scripture is, I let go of all my preconceived notions of what people tell me scripture says, and if it's truth, when I look into it and research for the answer, I will eventually come full circle. If God takes me in another direction, then I'll follow that until I reach an end point. This is why I say a relationship is most important because without one, where is my guidance and direction? I trust that the Lord will guide and direct me and I don't need a pastor to explain to me what the verse tells me... If they're correct, then the Lord will show me they're correct and if they aren't, then I can ignore them. People put WAY too much stock in spiritual leaders. We have but ONE teacher and that is Christ.
Christianity is not broken. We are. That includes every single one of us. Taking Christianity and warping it is done by us. It’s not just within Churches as is so often said but how people interpret it when they are alone in a room claiming to need nothing but their Bibles and private interpretations.
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No One Is Above The Law

No one should be above the law but Trump doesn't agree with that. He thinks that he is.
He is the Chief law enforcement officer and seems to be winning a lions share of appeals against lawless rogue judges. So I would grade the above statement as false.
This is the most corrupt administration that I've witnessed. Surpassing Reagan's. Hopefully, we will see many of Trump's people get what they deserve.
Were you out of the country during the Biden administration? You seem to have missed a lot of corruption.
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Israeli hostage's sister rebukes Greta Thunberg for using starving brother's image in propaganda post

The sister of Israeli hostage Evyatar David has rebuked Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg for using a photo of her starving and frail brother in a social media post accusing Israel of mistreating Palestinian prisoners.

Thunberg, who was among hundreds of activists from the Gaza-bound Global Sumud Flotilla deported from Israel on Monday, shared a graphic on her Instagram earlier this week that featured pictures of Palestinians detained by Israel.

One of the slides featured in the graphic claims that many Palestinians held in Israeli detention “have been taken from their homes, held in brutal conditions, tortured, silenced, and forgotten by the world that claims to care about human rights.”

Continued below.

Another look at the moon landing.

-

What this verse is stating is let there be lights in the sky of the heavens. The verse does not say, let there the light in the outer space of the heavens

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament (sky) of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

And another verse states these light are for giving light on the earth. The verse does not say these lights are for giving light to a solar system.

God set them in the sky (raqia) of the heavens to give light on the earth,
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Why you can't debate unbelievers into the Kingdom of God

A great piece on how we go about conducting ourselves as Christians.
***************
In an age addicted to argument, Christians have become remarkably good at talking — and remarkably poor at listening. Scroll through social media or walk past a campus debate table, and you’ll see believers armed with microphones, cameras, and carefully memorized rebuttals. The object is not conversion but conquest. The applause line has replaced the altar call.

Somewhere along the way, we began to confuse winning debates with winning souls. Yet Scripture presents a very different picture of how truth changes hearts. The Gospel was never designed to be wielded like a sword in a duel of intellects; it was meant to be offered like bread to the hungry.

The problem with the debate mindset

Apologetics has its place. Reasoned defense of the faith can clarify misunderstandings and expose falsehoods. But when the believer’s primary instinct is to defeat rather than to disciple, something sacred is lost. Too many of today’s “discussions” look more like verbal brawls—complete with highlight reels and hashtags — than like Gospel witness.

Paul warned Timothy, “Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness” (2 Tim. 2:23–25). Those words are as necessary in the digital age as they were in the first century. Debate can inform minds, but only the Spirit can transform hearts.

Why argument alone fails

Continued below.

Evil Is Not the Opposite of Good, It Is the Opposite of Truth

In the moral sense, it also incorporates hatred. On occasion I've seen what I think were demonic faces on people, and something that seems to come through even more than evil is a sense of hatred.

I've never been a fan of the "absence of good" as the whole explanation for evil.

Hatred involves the will, not a mere absence of a moral quality.
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Trump’s Israel-Hamas peace plan is a big deal: All hostages coming home

Israel’s war in Gaza moved one step nearer to resolution on Wednesday, when Hamas and Israel both agreed to “the first phase” of President Donald Trump’s peace plan. “This means that ALL of the Hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their Troops to an agreed upon line,” Trump wrote Wednesday afternoon on Truth Social. “This is a GREAT Day for the Arab and Muslim World, Israel, all surrounding Nations, and the United States of America.”

The agreement covers “all terms and mechanisms for implementing the first phase of the Gaza ceasefire agreement, which will lead to stopping the war, releasing Israeli detainees and Palestinian prisoners, and allowing aid to enter,” said Qatari Foreign Ministry spokesman Majed al-Ansari.

While public pronouncements are light on details, Israeli officials expect the simultaneous release of all the living hostages within 72 hours, likely on Monday. The clock starts, and the ceasefire officially begins when the deal is ratified by the Israeli government.

Israel also insists on Hamas returning the bodies of all deceased hostages, although Hamas claims that will take longer to achieve, as some of the bodies are buried under rubble or lie behind the Israeli lines.

Continued below.

Labor Dept warns Immigration Policies Threaten Stability of the Domestic Food Supply

The Labor Department warned in an obscure document filed with the Federal Register last week that “the near total cessation of the inflow of illegal aliens” is threatening “the stability of domestic food production and prices for U.S. consumers.”

Also, contradicting comments made by Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins that the U.S. farm workforce will become “100 percent American” as an effect of mass deportations, the Labor Department noted that Americans are not willing to step into farm work and lack the skills to fill agricultural jobs that undocumented immigrants are abandoning.

“The Department concludes that qualified and eligible U.S. workers will not make themselves available in sufficient numbers,” the agency said.

Doc:
"...the Department concludes, based on all available evidence and studies, that immediate reform to the H-2A program's minimum wage policy, or the AEWRs, is necessary to avoid imminent widespread disruption across the U.S. agricultural sector. Without prompt action, agricultural employers will face severe labor shortages, resulting in disruption to food production, higher prices, and reduced access for U.S. consumers, particularly to fresh fruit and vegetables. Further, the Department concludes that qualified and eligible U.S. workers will not make themselves available in sufficient numbers, even at current wage levels, to fill the significant labor shortage in the agricultural sector. As discussed in detail below, the reforms contained in this IFR of the H-2A program's wage policy are urgently needed to restore the usability of the H-2A program and to provide a practical, lawful workforce alternative to illegal aliens. These changes ensure that agricultural employers offer fair wages to legally authorized workers—consistent with wages paid in comparable farm and non-farm jobs—while maintaining compliance with immigration law and supporting the stability of the nation's food supply.


Imagine that? Americans are unwilling to harvest their own food.
Agree!
The shortsighted actions of Krist Noem is unfathomable. Trump has publicly suggested he would offer some leniency, like temporary deportation passes or legal work status, to undocumented immigrants working long-term in agriculture and other essential industries to prevent harm to those sectors. However, Noem and her team of special forces have intensified overall immigration enforcement, which includes these individuals.

To those who believe this is a good course of action, let us reason, please!
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anyone know anything about Gematria?

Starting from the first decimal place, the three numbers beginning at the 622301st place are π 222,
The word wisdom appears in 222 verses in the authorized King James Bible!

In π, this is the 606th occurrence of the number 222.

Referring to index position 606 of π, Φ and e, the numbers 8,8,8 appear

1760189310729.jpeg


The Greek name Jesus, Iésous, adds up to 888!

1760189360249.jpeg
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Pope Leo says faith and love for migrants are connected

"No Christian can regard the poor simply as a societal problem; they are part of our 'family,'" Leo writes. "They are "'one of us.'"

This is the part of the Christian ethos and fundamental command that MAGA cannot seem to hear.

Now how best to deal with “the poor”, the vulnerable, those seeking asylum and a life with hope, is a great challenge that requires collaboration and honest effort. Fixing broken social systems, immigration policy and procedures is a massive task. But it cannot even be started if the poor are not seen as one of us.
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Faith

You ever kindle a fire? There is a lot to it. Sometimes you could be at it for a while. It can get frustrating. IT IS WORK. Especially back then. Flipping a switch or turning a knob is not.
Nice evasion. The point God made was not the work entailed in taking wood, rubbing the flint to strike a spark and create a fire, but simply starting a fire by any means. You Pharisee, limiting yourself to the letter of the Law, while avoiding its actual intent!

I start fires every day. I have a gas-fired furnace which I used during winter months. I have a gas cooking stove which I use daily. I have a car with an internal combustion engine. The moment I hit the starter on the car I start the fire which propels the car.

One could evade this scenario, as many do, by using electricity instead of gas, but ultimately heat is being generated to provide the electric power. The nice thing is that the heat being generated is not being initiated on the Sabbath. The only niggling problem is that the end user is not using it constantly without interruption during the Sabbath and must initiate its use by starting the electric appliance.
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