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Larniavc · 2025-12-02T06:11:42-0600

Valletta said:
President Trump is the President of Peace. As President, he has brokered peace between Azerbaijan and Armenia, Cambodia and Thailand, Israel and Iran, Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, India and Pakistan, Egypt and Ethiopia, Serbia and Kosovo, and with the Abraham Accords."

Please show how each one is actually true and not simply a claim.

Dan1988 · 2025-12-02T06:09:10-0600

BobRyan said:
Actually that would be the minority view not the majority. The majority of Christians view hell as infinite torment. A forever existing of maximum suffering in fire where the fire is some sort of supernatural "not like real fire in this life" process.

Matt 25:41 NASB 41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:6 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter

No matter what someone wishes to believe. The Bible is true. In all its statements on the subject

1. God is a "consuming fire" in Heb 12 rather than a fire "that does not consume'
2. John does not use the term hell for burning but rather the lake of fire. the apostle John never uses the term hell to mean place of torment or fire. Rather he uses the term "lake of fire" that "devours them" vs 9 " fire came down from heaven and devoured them." NASB
3. Luke 12 says each person is punished according to deeds, some receive much punishment and some less. Very different from "infinite punishment for all"
4. Ezek 28 says that Satan "will be turned to ashes on the Earth, You will cease to be forever"

18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

5. Matt 10:28 says God totally destroys both soul and body in hell as compared to the first death where men can "kill the body but not the soul"

6. Not one text says the wicked have eternal life. In Ezek 18 the wicked die and the righteous do not die.

7. In Rev 20 the wicked are "consumed" by fire that comes from God

8. Malachi 4:3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

The bible never ever describes death as "cessation of existence", if your view was correct, then mankind doesn't actually exist and this life is an illusion.

But we know that we do exist, so your view is based on false doctrine.

According to God everyone s already dead, so what is death. If we are born dead in sin, then death is not the (cessation of existence) death you believe in. To the contrary, the bible confirms that sinners are born (spiritually dead) and then they die a second (spiritual death) which is their eternal state. They remain in their spiritually dead state for all eternity, but they are fully conscious and they feel pain just as much as thy do now.

So, we need to find out what the Biblical description of death is, before we can draw to any conclusion on the matter. From what I see, your view is not supported by any scripture. Satan is a Spiritual being, He is not made of flesh and bone so the description of His burning up to ashes on the earth must be referring to His power as the Prince of this world. He is stripped of all His power and He will never be reinstated as the Prince of this world.

The Bible is clear that on that day (when we step into eternity), everyone will be resurrected and reunited their own bodies. Those who died in their sin will remain in that state forever, but those who were saved will receive a glorified body and we will be perfect and sinless like Christ Himself.

CoreyD · 2025-12-02T06:07:19-0600

childeye 2 said:
I am talking about the op. The op claims Adam acted on his own free will, which is a noun. All of the terms you use to prove this act of free will are adjectives, not nouns in scripture. You need to prove that a voluntary choice (The noun, see below) exists in the moral/immoral context. To be clear, scripture teaches there are two masters, righteousness and unrighteousness, and we must serve either one or the other. You need to disprove that. When scripture speaks of a neutral position between the two masters, it's called doublemindedness not free will. This is why I'm saying the only true free will is the one set free from sin just like Jesus and Paul taught.

freewill
1 of 2

adjective
free·will ˈfrē-ˌwil

Synonyms of freewill
: voluntary, spontaneous
free will
2 of 2

noun
1
: voluntary choice or decision
I do this of my own free will.

2
: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

So watch this: When you say God created his children with free will the noun, notice how if we fill in the blank with the adjectives you provide as proof of free will, it doesn't make any sense.

God created his children with voluntary
God created his children with willing
God created his children with uncoerced
God created his children with unforced
God created his children with willful
God created his children with intended
God created his children with deliberate
God created his children with intentional
God created his children with free-willed

Notice the term will as a noun (meanings 2-6 below, not meaning 1). See how the noun makes sense and is coherent. -->
God created his children with a will.

Will
2 of 3

noun
ˈwil
1
: a legal declaration of a person's wishes regarding the disposal of their property or estate after death
especially : a written instrument legally executed by which a person makes disposition of their estate to take effect after death

2
: desire, wish: such as
a
: disposition, inclination
where there's a will there's a way

b
: appetite, passion
c
: choice, determination

3
: the act, process, or experience of willing : volition

4
a
: mental powers manifested as wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending
b
: a disposition to act according to principles or ends
c
: the collective desire of a group
the will of the people

5
: the power of control over one's own actions or emotions
a man of iron will

6
a
: something desired
especially : a choice or determination of one having authority or power
b(1)
[from the phrase our will is which introduces it] : the part of a summons expressing a royal command
(2)
archaic : request, command

You need to prove that free will the noun exists in the moral immoral context. These terms you've listed above are neutral terms in the moral/immoral context. Therefore, in the moral/immoral context, you still have not proven Adam was not persuaded by the woman who was deceived, and you still haven't proven people can be good apart from God's Spirit. You need to prove these fruits listed below come according to the volition of mankind not by God's Spirit:

The Fruits of the Spirit

Love: A selfless, unconditional affection towards others, reflecting God's love for humanity.

Joy: A deep-seated sense of happiness and contentment that is not dependent on external circumstances.

Peace: A tranquility and assurance that comes from trusting in God, providing a sense of calm amidst chaos.

Patience: The ability to endure difficult situations and the imperfections of others without frustration.

Kindness: A disposition to be helpful, generous, and considerate towards others.

Goodness: Moral integrity and a commitment to doing what is right, even when it is difficult.

Faithfulness: Loyalty and reliability in relationships, reflecting trust in God and His promises.

Gentleness: A humble and considerate approach to others, characterized by meekness and compassion.

Self-Control: The ability to regulate one's emotions, thoughts, and behaviors, demonstrating discipline and restraint.
These fruits are seen as evidence of a believer's relationship with the Holy Spirit and are essential for living a Christ-centered life. They reflect the character of God and guide believers in their interactions with others and their spiritual growth.

You’ve shown that Scripture uses adjectives like hekón and hekousios to describe voluntary actions. But voluntariness is not the same as free will the noun. Scripture never says Adam had ‘free will’ as a faculty of autonomous moral choice. Instead, it says Adam was persuaded by Eve (Genesis 3:17), Satan’s will is bound to lies (John 8:44), and all who sin are slaves to sin (John 8:34). Paul says creation is subjected to vanity ‘not willingly’ (Romans 8:20). So yes, people act voluntarily, but that does not prove they possess free will in the moral/immoral sense. The only true free will Scripture acknowledges is the will set free from sin by Christ (Romans 6:18; John 8:36).”

We have nothing else to talk about.

johnnypapa · 2025-12-02T06:06:40-0600

By 2025, it is projected that Africa will be home to one-sixth of the world’s Catholics. That means tens of millions of faithful believers—many of them first- or second-generation Catholics—bringing new life to a Church that has long been centered in Europe and the Americas. This demographic shift represents one of the most profound transformations in Church history.

Africa’s Catholic Awakening Amid Persecution - Catholic Exchange

Africa is becoming the beating heart of the Catholic Church, where persecution, martyrdom, and unwavering faith are driving remarkable growth.

catholicexchange.com

johnnypapa · 2025-12-02T06:02:57-0600

December 2, 2025

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Morning Offering for December 2, 2025

www.morningoffering.com

One Minute Reflection – 2 December – ‘ … And, the greater their purity, the more they will see!’

One Minute Reflection – 2 December – “The Month of the Divine Infancy and the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary” – St Bibiana (Died c 361) Virgin Martyr – Sirach 51:13-17; Matthew 13…

anastpaul.com

Saint Bibiana propers & commentary (EF)

Saint Bibiana

Commentaries and propers for the Feast of Saint Bibana

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Feria (First Sunday of Advent) propers & commentary (EF)

https://propria.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/propers-for-first-sunday-of-advent-mht-preface.pdf

Tuesday of the First Week of Advent (Gueranger)(EF)

Tuesday of the First Week of Advent

Come, let us adore the King our Lord, who is to come. From the Prophet Isaias 2:1-3 The word that Isaias the son of Amos saw, concerning Juda and Jerusalem. And in the last days the mountain of the…

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Tuesday of the First Week of Advent readings & commentary (OF)

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December 2, 2025 - Tuesday of the First Week of Advent - Catholic Daily Reflections from My Catholic Life!

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Tuesday of the First Week of Advent readings & commentary (OF)
Other Commemorations: St. Bibiana, Virgin and Martyr; St. Silverius, Pope and Martyr

Tuesday of the First Week of Advent - December 02, 2025 - Liturgical Calendar

Today the Roman Martyrology commemorates St. Bibiana (died c. 361) who was martyred at Rome under Julian the Apostate around the year 361. The Church also commemorates St. Silverius (480-537), who was pope for a very short time in 546-7 A.D. But his brief pontificate made him a martyr for the

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Daily Gospel

DAILY GOSPEL

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Saint Bibiana Virgin and Martyr

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St. Bibiana’s fearless faith amid persecution inspires us to reject compromise, bear suffering with courage, and trust that God’s love conquers all fear.

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Saints of the Day

CatholicSaints.Info » Blog Archive » 2 December

Audio version of Gueranger
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Morning and Night Prayers During Advent — From Dom Guéranger’s Liturgical Year
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Bob Crowley · 2025-12-02T06:01:26-0600

He's been to Australia a few times and doesn't like our staple yeast extract "Vegemite". But he likes "Tim Tams".

From an AI source -

Yes, Pope Leo XIV reportedly dislikes Vegemite. He is quoted as preferring Tim Tams over Vegemite after having tried the Australian spread during his multiple visits to the country.

Dislike for Vegemite: Pope Leo XIV (formerly Cardinal Robert Prevost) has stated that he dislikes Vegemite after trying it on several visits to Australia.

Preference for Tim Tams: He is known to enjoy Tim Tams, a popular Australian chocolate biscuit, even jokingly hoping a gift of them was not Vegemite.

Reason: The dislike is a result of his personal taste, developed after trying Vegemite during his previous trips to Australia.

To borrow from Tommy Cooper, if Pope Leo ever comes to Australia in his official roel we'll present him with a year's supply of Vegemite - one jar!

And one day's worth of Tim Tam's.

Some years ago there was an TV ad in Australia where this female genie appears and reluctantly asks this knock about bloke what he wants to be, while she gets on with the more important business of buffing her nails.

He says something like "Rich, delicious and really, really cool!

She snaps her fingers and turns him into a packet of Tim Tams in the fridge!

stevevw · 2025-12-02T05:49:53-0600

They say for every boat stopped full of drugs headed to the US saves around 20,000 Americans from drug addiction and overdoses. There have been around a million drug death overdoses in the last 25 years. Which is more deaths than in all the major wars of the 20th century.

Musk has a good take on this and I tend to agree.

Most People Don't Realize What Trump's Venezuela Move Really Means - Until Now! | Elon Musk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksuP9MO6oLs

timewerx · 2025-12-02T05:44:44-0600

tturt said:
When dreams are from The Lord, there is a purpose. We can always pray and asks Him about them.

My dreams have a tendency of happening some time later. I have made "before" and "after" threads here. The post of the dream before the event and another post after a very similar or the same event have occurred.

This dream have sent the whole nation of USA into a panic as they've encountered a potential enemy where their weapons are useless against it and an enemy using abilities or weapons they have no defense against and are masters of stealth and sneak attacks. They came out of nowhere like how such a large group of massive, 10 ft bipeds end up in the middle of LA without catching attention.

Normandt · 2025-12-02T05:44:04-0600

Homily Wednesday, December 3 2025

Isaiah 25:6-10a

“The Lord God will wipe away the tears from all faces.”

The love of God is peace and joy.

Matthew 15:29-37

“Great crowds came to him.”

Jesus allows for people to come near him.

stevevw · 2025-12-02T05:42:13-0600

The temperature is rising literally and spiritually.

romansroad · 2025-12-02T05:38:08-0600

st_worm2, thank you for your encouragement. I fell into a period of sin about 20 years ago that I had a hard time breaking free from. I would ask forgiveness and promise I would not do it again but found I would fail again. Trying to gut it out and rationalizing my sin. I became addicted to pain medicine during a period of about 12 years during which I had 10 major surgeries, some of them just a few months apart. I began to use them as a means to quiet the noise in my head and to feel some modicum of happiness. I never stopped praying, but as I look back on that was I actually rejecting Christ? It really worries me. I look at that time as “presenting my flesh as instruments of unrighteousness“. I fear that I may have hardened my heart beyond repentance, leading to apostasy and that is why this scrupulosity flare hit me out of the blue. God had removed His Spirit from me and I was lost. During this year I have weep many tears and asked God’s forgiveness repeatedly, but I just don’t hear from God or feel Him as much. My denominational upbringing placed a lot of emphasis on emotion. If you didn’t cry when you asked forgiveness you weren’t sincere. If you sinned you had to ”pray through again” with complete brokenness. Sorry, I know that was long and probably TMI, but it is out there. I know I have some warped views of Heavenly Father. I have to place my faith in His grace and forgiveness, not on my performance.

johnnypapa · 2025-12-02T05:36:02-0600

12/02/25 DAY 4

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SabbathBlessings · 2025-12-02T05:25:51-0600

This idea that the Sabbath is not supported in the NT, is not accurate. The Sabbath is quoted 55 times in the New Testament. Was kept after Jesus died, His covenant ratified on His death and the Sabbath was still kept after according to the commandment by His faithful followers that followed Him everywhere that Jesus never told changed

Luke23:56. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Because God keeps His promises Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19. They were the first to see Him after His death and He never told them once to stop keeping the Sabbath or told anyone not to, He would have had to tell them before because His covenant was ratified at His death and His death was once and for all Heb10:10 why Jesus again in His own words predicted His people of all nations to "hold fast His covenant" Isa56:6-7. Its a made up idea that is not in our Bibles, but was predicted Dan7:25 2Tim4:3-4

God said He wrote "His Laws" in the heart of the New Covenant believer Heb8:10 which included the 4th commandment- they went from written on tablets of stone (10 commandments) to written on tablets of the heart2Cor3:3. Jesus Himself said it was LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath Mat12:12 and one could still do evil on the Sabbath Mark3:4 (profane it Neh13:17 just as we were warned in the NT about being disobedient like those who came before us and why they could not enter their rest of the promise land Eze20:15-16 Heb4:6,11) Jesus Himself said the Sabbath would be kept after His death Mat24:20 why the apostles kept every Sabbath decades and decades later just as Jesus indicated Isa56:6-7

Act 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:4 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

and will be kept by "all flesh" His saints eternity thus saith the Lord Isa66:22-23 -

Jesus said out of His own mouth the Sabbath was made for mankind Mark2:27 for everyone who loves His name, wants to join themselves to Him and serve Him Isa56:6. This idea that the 4th commandment, the one God said to Remember was forgotten in our Bibles in the NT against the will of God's spoken and written Testimony Exo31:18 and His promise Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19

Factotum · 2025-12-02T05:06:13-0600

Good morning,

I was wondering if anyone has had experience with correlating the scripture in Romans 9:6, to the post-trib rapture?

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-12-02T05:04:51-0600

RainySunflower said:
It takes too much space, that is why I put " ... " in it ?

Anyway, my new point:

" Yes, by the 1940s, the knowledge that the Earth is round was common, having been accepted for centuries in educated societies "

View attachment 373900

Why they didn't use globus like a normal human ?

Same when H-person was looking at maps in WW2 , why didn't he use globus ?

The '...' thing from you is pointless because the word limit for these posts are literally in the hundreds. There's no need for it.

As for why globes weren't used... I'm sorry but that is such an incredibly idiotic question it beggars belief that you would ask it. Especially when the answer is staring you in the face. Also: never heard of a map?

stevevw · 2025-12-02T04:09:17-0600

BCP1928 said:
Not by "religion."

I thought you just said that they don't want to be told what to do by some religious group.

BCP1928 said:
Or you can just define them out of existence.

I am not sure what you mean. Who is being defined out of existence.

BCP1928 said:
Because I don't consider them a threat to Constitutional government.

So you only see men and religious groups as a threat. What about other identity groups as a threat. Just because you don't see them as a threat doesn't mean they are not a threat. Some people see the rise of Marxist ideology a threat.

We have seen the rise in radical groups in recent years due to the culture war. More extreme politics and people willing to use violence. Why single out some groups and not others. Seems like playing identity politics.

BCP1928 said:
Not at the groups, only at their public policy agenda.

Ok so why is it only about these groups public policy agendas. Do not other groups like say women, non religious groups of various sorts, environmental groups, BLM groups, Femninist, Marxist, Socialist, Trans activists groups, Liberal or progressive groups that push their agenda.

Why is it the religious group (specifically Christian) and specifically men. What is it about the religious groups policy agenda that should be singled out as opposed to other identity groups.

BCP1928 said:
Not a chance. You'll just have to define them as non religious because they are progressives.

Ok it doesn't matter. Like I said it really is a choice between whether abortion is ok or not. Or whether its biblical marriage or not. Its just to be a progressive within the Left you have to accept moral positions that will conflict with biblical norms.

Your more likely to end up in that situation by the fact that progressive in secular society means whatever the current generation thinks is morally ok. That happens to be pro choice and SSM ect.

BCP1928 said:
They mave have started out as moral precepts but the state has no power to make a moral judgement, only a legal one.

What do you mean "They may have started out as moral precepts"

Is not a legal judgement include the moral aspect. If pro choice is protected for abortion is that not also making a moral judgement that the State is allowing pro choice over anti abortion. Its an ethical dilemma. A choice between two ethical scenarios. One persons rights over anothers. Thats moral.

BCP1928 said:
They were all protesting the actions of the state, not its ideology.

I though they were protesting 'white supremecy and the white system of oppression' that had been institutionalised. If people protest against the States laws of say anti abortion what is the difference between whether its the State aparatus or the actions of such.

Why is it not all about what is morally right or wrong regardless of whether its the State system or the actions of those representing the State. Its still about morality.

BCP1928 said:
You think all of that is anti-Christian?

No I am saying these are all associated with ethics. The State cannot seperate morality out of these situations. The State is the body of humans who are the political party with their set of political ideologies which includes moral precepts.

BCP1928 said:
Injustice is what they are protesting. The immorality of it is for the clergy who also oppose it to consider..

The 'Injustice' is the morality lol.

BCP1928 said:
And somebody later added, "Be careful they don't hate Him because of Christians."

Yes that was Satan trying to conflate evil with Christ. You know very well what I mean and the world will hate Christians because of Christs truth. Do you think this is truth.

Do you think there is a difference in the morals of this world and Christians under Christ. Do you think we are all sinners and that need Christ.

BCP1928 said:
Which Trump is trying to turn the US into, at the behest of his Christian Nationalist base.

No its not just Trump and radical Christians. Thats just a reaction to other radical groups that have been allowed to fester and bring chaos. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Christ church is not even in the game. They are out there somewhere and I think rising as their own group that is different to the rest. A light in the darkness of all this culture wars.

BCP1928 said:
AOC is a devout Christian and Mandami is a Shia Muslim with a version of the Ten Commandments tougher and more specific than yours.

Politics has come down to identity and politicians like AOC have been the cultivaters of such hate and division by making everything about race, gender and other identities. How do you know AOC is not a wolf in sheeps clothing. Ilhan Omar is another,

It seems to me this type of politics of lies and misrepresentations is very harmful and bad fruit.

Isaac the Recluse · 2025-12-02T04:02:06-0600

Choosing nothing negates other things.

NGNEG

High Fidelity · 2025-12-02T03:41:05-0600

Happy birthday!

Nithavela · 2025-12-02T03:39:11-0600

Valletta said:
The stories were debunked long ago.

Nothing then. Thought so.

Moving on.

RamiC · 2025-12-02T03:38:45-0600

johansen said:
Who, besides hitler, and moses, had all the homosexuals killed? And made it a crime or heavily restricted interracial unions? Obviously every tribe and culture has had this problem occasionally, but to the extent it was codified in their culture and laws for more than 100 years?.. or are we afraid to say who had this problem?

I mean systemic nation wide edict, not individuals in a local town.

It is not so much laws which may be wrong and cruel, your post seems to skip the significance of aggressively crushing dissent, the right to express opposing ideas, secret agents operating inside a country on it's own residents, censorship of the arts, and forbidding opposition political representation.

Otherwise, if you don't like the laws, you don't like who is in power...vote them out.

tturt · 2025-12-02T03:35:39-0600

Welcome to the CF forums

Sorry I cant help with your request Hope you can arrange to hear The Bible that works for you.

A2SG · 2025-12-02T03:33:34-0600

Aryeh Jay said:
I dono, Edgar could really rock the lingerie of the time.

I'm sure he was the belle of the ball.

-- A2SG, Kash has big, very stylish, high heeled shoes to fill....

RamiC · 2025-12-02T03:30:05-0600

RamiC said:
I will just wait and see, there is a staff meeting on Monday.

Replying to myself, just to point out that nothing was said at all about conflict resolution at the meeting. It was all Christmas and New Year celebrations and opening times. Even the parties are part of the project's services, because we have those with no other gatherings they can go to, and a sober Christmas party is a lifeline for some.

Sorry, no solutions for squabbling parishioners here.

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freewill

adjective

noun

noun

The Fruits of the Spirit