CoreyD said:

That was not the point I made.
I'm pointing out that God created out of something - his vigor; power; force; substance; energy.


The idea that the world was created from pre-existing matter was generally rejected, as it was seen as incompatible with strict monotheism, which holds that God alone is eternal and self-sufficient.
Self efficient, is the key word here, as described by Isaiah at Isaiah 40:26

For example,

• God created water, Nowhere in the Bible does it say "out of chaos".
• God created the heavens... and the earth. Nowhere does the Bible say "out of chaos".

So while you favor those who make that claim, The Bible... does not support that view.
That is an important point to note.


Yes, you say that. The Bible does not say that. You do.
That is an important point.


The Midrash Bereshit Rabba, Parashah I, verse 5, is part of a larger interpretive framework that explores the creation narrative in Genesis 1:1. This section, like others in the parashah, is structured as a literary unit composed by a sophisticated editor who integrates various exegetical traditions to convey theological messages. The parashah begins with a petihah (opening) that links Genesis 1:1 to Proverbs 8:30, interpreting the word "amon" in Proverbs as "uman" (workman or craftsman), thereby portraying the Torah as God's working tool.

The specific content of Bereshit Rabba 1:5, as referenced in the context, involves a discussion about the creation of the world and the nature of its origins. It addresses the idea that the world was not created from pre-existing matter, countering views that suggest creation occurred from "tohu" (chaos) and "bohu" (void), which are described as forms of matter. The Midrash argues that to claim the world was created from such pre-existent material diminishes God's glory, emphasizing instead the concept of creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing). This interpretation is part of a broader theological effort to affirm God's absolute sovereignty over creation.

Additionally, the parashah includes teachings attributed to prominent rabbis such as R. Oshaya and R. Huna, who are cited in connection with the creation narrative.

Hmm. Did you get that?
Two things to note:
It does not support your position.
It's also an interpretation.
It's not the word of God... although the understanding that God did not create out of pre-existing matter, or out of chaos, is great, but the Bible is all we need for truth, and it does explain that God created out of his vigor; power; force; substance; energy.

The point to take away... The Bible is what establishes truth, Not interpretations of people.
The Bible explains the truths we need to know.


You have done that?
Well I certainly did not get that from what you were saying.
From your entire argument, all I got was that God did not create out of nothing but out of chaos.
That's all I was getting. You even repeated it above.

That does not address anything about whether the earth is young, or old.
Stay tuned.


See?
How does that address that Genesis 1, is not 6 24 hour days of creation?

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Nope. Bereshit Rabba 1:5, The source explicitly states that the earth began as "emptiness and disorder" (tohu vavohu). This understanding is derived from the verse in Genesis (1:1-2): "In the beginning, God created...from what? 'The earth was emptiness and disorder'".

The sources discuss the creation of the world from disorder, or "emptiness and disorder" (tohu va'vohu), primarily within the context of whether speaking about this origin is permissible or honors God.
Key points regarding creation out of disorder:
1. The Starting Material is Recognized: The text explicitly quotes Genesis 1:2, confirming the starting state of the world: "The earth was emptiness and disorder". This is the source from which God created, following the initial statement "In the beginning, God created".
2. Potential for Insult/Contempt: There is a concern that mentioning the world's origin in disorder is offensive to God's honor. The text offers a comparison:
◦ When a mortal king builds a palace in a location that was previously a place of sewers, refuse, or malodorous, stating this fact is generally considered an insult.
◦ Similarly, the text poses a rhetorical question, suggesting that anyone who says: ‘This world was created from emptiness and disorder,’ is this not an insult?.
3. Justification for Stating the Origin: Despite the potential for insult, Rav Huna, in the name of bar Kapara, explains that this fact must be stated because "Were the matter not written explicitly it would not have been possible to say it". The scriptural account itself reveals that God created from the state of "emptiness and disorder".
4. Context of Divine Honor: This discussion is framed by the opening of Psalms 31:19, concerning the silencing of "lying lips" that speak "harsh words" against the Eternal Righteous One. These "harsh words" (atak) are characterized as matters that God concealed from His creations. The text suggests bewilderment at those who might boast about expounding the act of Creation or show contempt for God's honor.
In summary, the sources confirm that the world originated from a state of "emptiness and disorder," but emphasize that this fact is only known because God revealed it in Scripture, and mentioning it runs the risk of showing contempt for the Divine honor, similar to insulting a builder by pointing out the foul ground upon which a magnificent structure was raised.
Furthermore, the sources consistently stress that God acted alone in the creation process. The creation was not spontaneous chaos yielding to order, but an intentional act of a sole creator, who looked in the Torah, which served as His artisan's tool (uman) or blueprint, to create the world. The Torah itself is considered to have preceded the world's creation.

And you can read Bereshit Rabba 1:5 right here, its pretty plainly stated:

essentialsaltes said:

House Democrats release new Epstein emails referencing Trump​

The publication of the emails comes on the same day that House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., is scheduled to swear in Representative-elect Adelita Grijalva, an Arizona Democrat who won a special election last month.

Once sworn in, Grijalva is expected to provide the final signature on a discharge petition to force a vote on a House bill that would compel the Department of Justice to release the government's full investigative files on Epstein.

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I suspect they were holding back until Grijalva was sworn in (or in this case will be in a couple hours and they can't delay it this time) and signs the discharge petition and forces a debate and vote on the floor.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Where they blow up. Or given dual process ? What border. Since there's been so many blowing up boats being blown up.

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We have over 40 years of history showing US Presidents using our military to attack the narco cartels.

Apple Sky said:

I am a woman.

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It's a quote from the film The Big Lebowski.

Pommer said:

Suddenly, social-Darwinism is cool.

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It isn't sudden. social Darwinism has been part of every argument against the New Deal from the start.

Fervent said:

Do you not understand the meaning of the word "ultimately"?

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The first item on an infinite regress of causation. I am more disturbed by you thinking humans are "created".

Since I can only go back to the start of the expansion of our Universe (known as the Big Bang) before all is lost to the inaccesible murkiness of the electromagnetic spectrum and the limits on force unification, I must stop there. I thought just your confusion about where people come from was far enough and you wouldn't want me to explain it all through galactic structure formation, the late heavy bombardment, and RNA autocatalysis.

Fervent said:

What better option do you have?

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Read better literature. That would be my advice.

Fervent said:

Sure, but you hold that morality is sheer subjective opinion and expect that to be taken seriously. So what hope was there for discussion to begin with?

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Just as I know the Earth is gooey below me. I learn to live with it.

hedrick said:

Obama is not getting royalties from Obamacare. That’s satire

President Donald Trump shared a claim that former President Barack Obama received millions in Obamacare-related royalties before Trump’s Department of Government Efficiency stepped in to stop it. That claim originated from satire.

www.politifact.com

apparently the claims are satire.

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As your source indicates, clever Donald's post is real.

wing2000 said:

Would that include a Latino grocery store, church or school?

Should my hispanic wife, who is a naturalized U.S. Citizen, have to carry her passport when she enters a Latino grocery store...just because she looks hispanic and is venues where illegals may be present?

Why should she and other US Citizens be subject to detention based on where they shop, worship or work?

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If its a venue where illegals are present then yes. ICE has done a good job so far of hitting these areas and getting illegals. Certainly some Americans have been picked in the process. But they have been verified and released. .There are consequences to having sanctuary cities and consequences to citizens supporting such nonsense. You wanted illegals to come there and invited them. Dont be so shocked when ICE comes to get them. They are going to go where the illegals are and if you are caught in the net so be it. You'll be let go in relatively short order.

All illegals must go. I dont care how long youve been here or if youve married an American or had babies here. You must go. Self deport is the best way. Then work on coming here legally and we'll be happy to have you. There are consequences for letting them in and for inviting them to your city and telling them you'll protect them.

If your hanging with illegals, you should EXPECT that you might get picked up in a sweep. Best advice, stay away from places with illegals or carry your passport if you insist on hanging around illegals.

camille70 said:

Trump said we dont have talent here so we have to import it.

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1988407251078680651?s=20

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Anyone one who paid attention knew Trump would eventually say something like this. He has imported prime-rib cutting talent for his business for years and is part of the ruling class.

Those poor, anti-immigrant dupes in MAGA. He was never on their side to being with. I pity them... (no that's not quite right... not pity... what do you call this feeling inside me... schadenfruede, das war est.)

Dan1988 said:

I thought I already cleared this up for you. I told you that God is not the Author of evil, but He does allow evil doers to do their wicked work for a time. Then He torments them is the lake of fire for all eternity, so God sill wins.
They do their thing for a short time but God does His thing forever, that's a bargain. I love it, just as I love everything else that God does.

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So these evil people who died in the flood were doing what God wanted them to do or were they doing what God didn’t want them to do?

Apple Sky said:

back to you ..........

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Oh very intelligent. Now try to explain where satellite tv signals come from in a rational way instead of just making claims which are irrational. I’ll go through them again.

Aerial masts would make perfect sense if satellite dishes were aligned with aerial masts. But they are not, so that’s nonsense.

Underground cables would make perfect sense if cables carrying the signals were routed underground and connected to the satellite boxes, doing away with any need for dishes aligned to the sky. But there are no such cables. And dishes do have to aligned to the sky.

Signals skipped off the ionosphere would make perfect sense if the ionosphere was consistently reliable in providing strong uninterrupted signals. But it isn’t. It is unreliable for such use.

Balloons would only make sense if receiver dishes were constantly rotating trying to keep a lock on the balloon. But no, they remain pointing at the same place in the sky.

So where do the signals come from? If there are no satellites it should be very easily explained. But flat earthers have no clue!

So it has to be satellites in geostationary orbit above a globe earth. Unless flat earthers can come up with rational answers instead of nonsense, that is the only logical answer.

Valletta said:

‘Arctic Frost’ Scandal: 51% Favor Impeaching Judge Boasberg

A narrow majority of voters agree with impeachment proceedings against a federal judge involved in the Biden administration’s “Arctic Frost” investigation that secretly targeted Republicans in Congress.

www.rasmussenreports.com

We will see how the country reacts as more information is forthcoming.

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Public opinion is largely meaningless when it comes to impeachment. Or do you think that President Trump should be impeached too? After all 52% of Americans support the idea (at least back in April - it may be higher now): https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-...americans-support-impeachment-rc-aso-memo.pdf

zippy2006 said:

First, I still have a lot of respect for Shapiro,...

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I do too. And when he was doing the college speaking years ago, I think he was excellent for conservatism. The perfect guy for that time.

zippy2006 said:

...but I think he mislead me a bit, and this in two ways.

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I wouldn't be surprised. There are things to dislike about him. He can be...um...what's the word...can't say "shifty", can't say "crafty"... okay - disingenuous. The Dice video below is cued. Shapiro asks for money to help "children", never telling the listeners that 100% of donations go to help Jewish kids and families exclusively. I've double-checked what Dice says, and it's true. And Shapiro may or may not be directly involved with one or both charities. It's murky.

Imagine if I had a show and used it to get money that I gave to white kids only, or to Christian kids only, but you know, didn't think to mention that.

Login to view embedded media

zippy2006 said:

First, much of what is being said about Tucker strikes me as true, but after watching the whole interview I can see that Tucker was disagreeing with Fuentes, albeit very gently. This means that charges of "ideological laundering" pure and simple are not quite accurate.

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It's possible Tucker didn't want to disagree with him sharply for the reason I gave a couple of posts above. Nick is good, and perhaps Tucker didn't want to be getting shown up on his large platform? But that's just speculation.

zippy2006 said:

Second, Fuentes is not as bad as I thought he was after I watched Shapiro's initial video. Resentment and anger seem to drive much of what he does, but he is at the same time intelligent, thoughtful, argument-based, and capable of self-reflection. For example, this is a surprising video.

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That sort of forceful, emotional speech he makes near the beginning - I'd never heard that before. And it sounds like he's acting. In real life he's almost always smiling and happy and lighthearted even when discussing what he's been put through.

zippy2006 said:

At the same time, I think Fuentes' rhetoric is problematic, I think there is an affective problem (particularly with anger and resentment, albeit for legitimate injustices), and I think there are logical problems, including theologically,

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Theologically. I've heard him say a few quirky things about his catholicism which I think are flat out wrong. But that's between you and him.

zippy2006 said:

* See for example this interview with Victor Davis Hanson.

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I don't have time for the whole video. I found a little about Nick in the part where they're talking about Tucker. Is there anything else?

AI is no more of a lasting threat than man. Both can die, ending their reign of oppression or whatever. Simply pull the plug.

linux.poet said:

So me deciding not to murder and deciding not to commit adultery means I am obligated to keep the entire Law? Those commands are on the Decalogue too.

If I decide to take my Sabbath rest on Tuesday morning from 6-10AM does that mean every male in my life has to be circumcised? At some point this becomes absurd.

What makes the 4th commandment so special that keeping it revokes my salvation and put me back under the Law and not under grace?

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Just to provide a Scripture reference, the Scripture only being quoted and contrasted is the Ten Commandments, breaking one we break them all. They are all interconnected. For example idol worship is related to Sabbath-breaking. Eze20:16 Covertness is also idolatry Col 3:5

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

What whole law are they referring to. The next verse tells us plainly- what God spoke and God wrote only the Ten Commandments.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.


Circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments and served as a whole other purpose.


The Ten Commandments are the only laws under God's mercy seat. Exo25:21 also in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19

The earthy temple was a miniature of God's heavenly temple. Jesus being our High Priest now, instead of an earthy one. When day of atonement would come in the OC the earthy priest would enter into the Most Holy of God's Temple Exo26:34 where God's Testimony or Ten Commandments was as it defines what sin is, and the blood of animals would cleanse the people of their sins. This was always a shadow pointing to Jesus and what He does in His Heavenly Temple

Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

The blood of animals could never remove sin, why Jesus had to sacrifice Himself

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The blood of Jesus can remove the stain of sins, but sin is still breaking God's laws 1John3:4 any of the Ten Commandments what we will be judged by James2:11-12 Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19 Ecc12:13-14

Its why removing a jot or tittle of God's commandments is so dangerous, breaking one commandment we break them all. His blood covers our sins in the Most Holy of His Temple when we come to Him, turn from sin and abide in Him 1John1:9 Rom6:1-4 John15:4-10. When we remove one of God's commandments that He covers, it doesn't remove the law, it removes His mercy and what He covers Exo20:6 Pro28:13 why its so important to let God be God, obey Him the way He asks and have faith what He is asking is because He knows what's best for us. We want our sins under His blood and mercy.

No one attacks the other 9 commandments the way the 4th has been attacked. Its the one commandment that identifies which God we are to worship in the first 3 commandments, its the God we are to worship Rev14:7, the God of Creation Exo20:11 and the God who has the power to bless Isa56:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12

SavedByGrace3 said:

Say what they want. But their opinions have no more weight than those of an illegal immigrant.

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I'm almost encouraged that you didn't denigrate the unauthorized immigrant to a lower level.

SavedByGrace3 said:

We are American citizens.

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Cool, so am I. It's not that hard to accomplish. All you need is to be born in the US or have a US born parent bring you back home after birth abroad. I manged one of those on my first breath.

SavedByGrace3 said:

My family has been here since 1620.

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And so has mine... no wait it hasn't. We're much more recent arrivals. Does that matter? VP Vance thinks it does.

SavedByGrace3 said:

I have people in the Revolution, the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, VN, and the Gulf War. We have blood in this matter.

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Yes, but did they fight for the right side (the US side) during the Slaveholder's rebellion? (I'll give you one guess in my case.)

SavedByGrace3 said:

My family has 250 years of blood, sweat, and tears. We cut down the trees, plowed the land, and picked up weapons when called up. We have been paying taxes since the nation was started.

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Anyone that owns property here or comes on a temporary visa pays taxes. Do their views count now?

SavedByGrace3 said:

Foreigners can say anything they want. But their words really do not weigh beyond a logical position. Fine. They do not have any say in where that money goes. They have no say in who our leaders are. They have no say in our laws, our constitution, or the fate of our children. I assume they have problems in their own countries that need attending to.

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One of the values of the outsiders perpective is that they *don't* have a say. They don't have to worry about if their taxes will go up or a policy will cost their jobs. They can evaluate without being influenced by how a choice will impact them directly.

SavedByGrace3 said:

They have a say there. Not here.
I do not ignore their opinions... I just wonder why they care what happens in my country?

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If you don't understand the role the US plays in global everything, I can't help you. You should have learned that already.

Always in His Presence said:

Jeffrey Epstein: Trump ‘asked Ghislaine Maxwell to stop’ recruiting girls from Mar-a-Lago spa

The release is likely to increase pressure on the Justice Department to make public all its files in connection with the notorious case.

nypost.com

​

Convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein acknowledged in a bitter email months before his death that Donald Trump told Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell to stop plucking young girls from the spa at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort to groom and sexually abuse.​

​

In the email, written by Epstein to discredited author Michael Wolff on Jan. 31, 2019 — fewer than six months before Epstein’s arrest on federal sex trafficking charges — and released by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee Wednesday, the disgraced financier responded to Trump’s claim to have booted Epstein from the club.​

​

“[T][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] said he asked me to resign,” Epstein told Wolff. “[I was] never a member ever.”​

​

“[O]f course he knew about the girls as he asked [G]hislaine to stop.”​

​

Nearly eight years earlier, on April 2, 2011, Epstein described Trump in an email to Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year prison sentence for sex trafficking conspiracy and other charges, as “that dog that hasn’t barked,” adding that an unnamed victim “spent hours at my house with him [and] he has never once been mentioned.”​

​

“The Democrats selectively leaked emails to the liberal media to create a fake narrative to smear President Trump,” White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt told The Post in a statement. “The ‘unnamed victim’ referenced in these emails is the late Virginia Giuffre, who repeatedly said President Trump was not involved in any wrongdoing whatsoever and ‘couldn’t have been friendlier’ to her in their limited interactions.​

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Here is the other version:

The publicly released email exchanges between Jeffrey Epstein and journalist Michael Wolff primarily focus on Donald Trump's relationship with Epstein and how it was handled in the media. The correspondence spans a critical period, from the 2016 presidential campaign through the early years of Trump's presidency.
2015 Exchange (PR Strategy & Leverage)
This exchange occurred in December 2015, as Trump was actively campaigning for the Republican nomination.
* Wolff alerted Epstein that CNN was planning to ask Trump about their relationship.
* Epstein asked if they could "craft an answer" for Trump.
* Wolff advised Epstein to "let him hang himself" if Trump denied knowing him, suggesting it would give Epstein valuable "PR and political currency."
* Wolff also noted that if Epstein were to "save him," it could "generat[e] a debt."
2019 Exchange (Claim of Knowledge)
This exchange occurred in January 2019, during Trump's presidency, and dealt with Trump's attempts to distance himself from Epstein.
* Epstein made the explicit claim to Wolff that Trump "knew about the girls as he asked ghislaine to stop."
* This message was sent while Epstein was referencing a claim that Trump had asked him to resign from his club (Mar-a-Lago), which Epstein dismissed as false.
In summary, the emails reveal discussions about strategically managing the public narrative around Trump's association with Epstein and contain Epstein's direct assertion that Trump was aware of the criminal activities.

Matthew 16: 17 .... For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, hbut my Father who is in heaven.

Truth comes only from the Father and this is what the church was to be built upon, truth from the Father, not the doctrines, traditions nor will of man using God for their own purposes. Anyone putting their will ahead of the will of God, especially in religion, is working for the Adversary.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

I'm glad President Trump is finally expressing what conservatives, liberals, Republicans, and Democrats have been saying for the past 50 years.

Thank you, Mr. President. Please simplify the H-1B visa process, pursue comprehensive immigration reform, and make America great again.

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Has the $100k fee been rescinded?

Always in His Presence said:

For those who are not familiar with mortgages:

Are Mortgages Public Record and How Can You Access Them?​

Mortgage records play a crucial role in real estate transactions and property ownership, serving as key documents for verifying financial agreements tied to properties. These records are generally accessible to the public, offering transparency and accountability within the housing market.​

​

Are Mortgage Records Public?​

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Although irrelevant to what occurred at Fannie Mae, from your link:

Exceptions to Public Availability​

It's quite apparent there are guidelines at Fannie. It's quite obvious given the article they were ignored and as IGs do, they looked into the matter. This IG was fired because they had the audacity to follow a court order providing what a judge had requested. The others were fired because they asked questions. Again, these cases are going to do the way of the Doo Doo bird, replete with the insurance lawyer now district AG being sanctioned and disbarred just like a lot of other lawyers who make the mistake of doing Trump's bidding.

It blows my mind people try to defend this.

essentialsaltes said:

UN watchdog unable to verify Iran's stockpile of near-weapons grade uranium in months​

The confidential report also said that Iran has still not granted the International Atomic Energy Agency access to sites affected by the war.

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Why should they? The president of the United States testified that they've been destroyed.

com7fy8 said:

If you are wrong in some way and this is the reason you are being criticized . . .

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I’m always willing to consider that.

Though stubborn nitpicky criticism of where I choose to park the car, I don’t think that is covered.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

I also want to say that that link is actually brilliant in it's own way since it's got stuff talking about Medieval scholars talking about stuff and it's amazing.

Turns out, the idea of the pyramids being granaries goes all the way back to the 6th century AD.

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It's like freedom for Andy Dufresne, you have to wade through a lot of ... but at the end of the pipe there are fabulous things.

FredVB said:

There are the commandments besides those that were written by the finger of God, after God spoke those ones audibly. Many other things commanded, being subject to the ten, are of the shadows which involve the priesthood, the sacrifices, and the ways to be made clean, which we have Christ for in the new covenant, and the civil law, which is not up to the Christian believers. And what we can be obedient in with it being in Christ we can do.

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Leaf473 said:

Sorry, I'm not following


Are you saying the commandments don't change except for the ones that are the civil law? Or any other commandment that we can't keep in Christ?

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Everything of the law is subject to what was written in stone by the finger of God after God spoke those things, including the priesthood, the sacrifices, the ways to be me made clean in the rituals all of which were shadows in the old covenant that Christ is revealed to be in the new covenant, penalties in civil law are shadows of justice from God, which Christ bore for the redeemed, the ones with repentant faith that came, and those with that who will come, to Christ, and be restored to God. What to do right in that is still what is right to do, in the new covenant that was prophesied this would be from the heart, that is the essential change. Everything before God is to involve living justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God.