New Posts

Fervent · 2025-11-08T13:55:33-0600

9Rock9 said:
No problem. It was quite the journey for me. Like most evangelicals in the Bible Belt, I was a young earth creationist just because that was what I was taught, and evolution is a gateway to atheism. I used to be pretty militant about it.

I did everything shift to Old Earth Creationism, as I thought it made more logical sense, but I was still critical of evolution. At that point, it was less evolution itself and more that I thought a non-literal reading of Genesis was disingenuous, which I thought was required in order to fit evolution in.

I don't think the mytho-history view necessitates evolution, but I don't think it conflicts with a high view of scripture, either.

I can definitely relate to this, my journey also involved struggling with evolution because of unrecognized assumptions about the Bible I have since shed. Evolution is only a gateway to atheism because so many make their faith fragile and dependent on a strict inerrancy as if a single flaw renders the whole Bible untrustworthy. In my research, I have come to view the YEC movement and other strict literalists not as true fundamentalists but revisionists reactionaries to a rise in naturalist epistemologies that view any dogmatism as automatically suspect.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-08T13:53:19-0600

Hentenza said:
Anyone? I’ve heard quite the opposite from the liberals here.

Not as a legal problem, but as a moral problem for his Christians supporters. But it appears you answered that--any amount of white collar crime is OK with Christians.

Dan Perez · 2025-11-08T13:53:18-0600

#1. AS. // HOS. is an. ADVERB

# 2 ALSO. // KAI. is a CONJUNCATION

# 3. IN. // EN. is a PREPOSITION

# 4 ALL. // PAS. is. in the DATIVE CASE. an. in. the PLURAL

# 5. HIS EPISTLES. //. EPISTOIE. inch DATIVE CASE in the PLURAL

# 6. SPEAKING. // LALEO. in the PRESENT TENSE. , in. the ACTIVE VOICE. is a PARTICIPLE. in the NOMINATIVE CASE a SINGULAR

# 7 IN. // EN. is. a PREPOSTION

# 8 THEM // AUTOS. is a PRESONAL POSSESSETIVE PRONOUN. in. the DATIVE CASE. in. the PLURAL

# 9 OF. // PERI. is a PREPOSTION

# 10 THESE. THINGS. // LOUTON. is a DEMONSTRATIVE PROMOUN. in. the GENITE CASE in. the NEUTER in. the PLURAL

# 11. IN. //. EN. , is a PREPOSTION

#12 WHICH. // HOS. is a RELATIVE PRONOUN. in. the DATIVE CASE. in. the PLURAL

# 13 ARE. //. ESTI. in. the PRESENT TENSE in. the INDICATIVE MOOD. in. the SINGULAR

# 14 SOME THINGS // ESTI in the PRESENT TENSE in. the INDICATIVE MOOD in v the SIGNULAR

# 15. HARD TO BE UNDER STOOD. //. DYSNOSTOS. in. the NOMINATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL in. the NEUTER

# 16 WHICH. //. HOSis a RELATIVE PRONOUN. in a NOMINATIVE CASE. in. the PLURAL. is a NEUTER

# 17. THEY. THAT. // HO. is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. is a NOMINATIVE CASE. in. the PLURAL

# 18. ARE UNLEARNED. // AMATHES. in. the NOMINATIVE CASE in. the PLURAL

# 19 AND. // KAI. is a CONJUNCATION.

# 20 UNSTABLE // ASTENKTOS

# 21. WREST. // STREBL. in. the PRESENT TENSE. in the ACTIVE VOICE in the INDICATIVE MOOD in. the PLURAL

# 22 AS. //. HOS is an ADVERB

# 23. ALSO. // KAI is a CONJUNCATION

# 24 THE //. HO. is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE in. the PLURAL

# 25 OTHER // LOIPOS. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE in. the PLURAL

# 26. SCRIPTURES. //. GRAPHE. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE. in. the PLURAL

# 27. UNTO. //. PROSis a PREPOSTION

# 28 THEIR // AUTOS is a PERSONAL POSSESSEITIVE PRONOUN. in. the GENITIVE CASE in. th PLURAL

#29 OWN //. DIOS. is a ACCUSATIVE CASE in. the SINGULAR.

# 30 DESTRUCTION. // APOLEIA. in the ACCUSATIVE CASE in. the SINGULAR

dan p

keras · 2025-11-08T13:52:09-0600

Strong in Him said:
Now ask them about a flying scroll that has a message on it regarding thieves and those who speak falsely; ask them to explain how that is like a nuclear missile.
They'll either say that it isn't, and/or tell you to stop talking nonsense.

Plenty of messages were written on bombs and rockets, in all of the wars.
The 'nonsense' here is your flat rejection of a possible meaning of an otherwise very obscure Bible Prophecy.

Strong in Him said:
You're not a prophet.

Never said I was. Just a messenger of what the real Prophets have told us, their Words, which mostly get ignored or mangled like you do.

Strong in Him said:
Yes, because Jesus will return one day.
It may not be in the way, and at the time, that you're expecting.

But before the glorious Return he will 'come' in vengeance and wrath. Actually, He will send His fiery wrath; Psalms 11:4-6
This will be the unexpected event, that you and most people are simply blinded from understanding.

Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, if you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with wine, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor. He has closed the prophetic vision and sealed the means of discerning the future to you.

Jeremiah 14:11-13 The Lord said to me: Do not pray for the wellbeing of this people. Though they fast and worship Me, [but not in spirit and in truth] I shall not listen to their cry on the Day of My punishment. But Lord – their leaders and pastors say to them: you will not face the terrible sword of judgement and they preach prosperity and escape from tribulation.

Jeremiah 14:14-16 The Lord answered me: These are lies that your leaders are misleading the people with. I have not sent them, I have not given them My commission, or spoken to them. They are giving out false teachings, useless advice and their own foolish daydreams.

Therefore, I say about those teachers and pastors who speak falsely in My Name, they will meet their end in My Day of wrath, I shall pour down upon them the disaster they deserve.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 The time will come when people will not stand sound teaching, but each will go after their own desires and will only listen to teachers who give pleasant and easy outcomes. People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching. They will only believe fables and fanciful notions. 1 Timothy 1:7 Ref: REB.

‘Beasts of the field’, foreigners, non Israelites. Those who have ‘encroached onto the holy Land’. Jeremiah 12:14

‘Israel’s watchmen perceive nothing’, the veil that hides the true knowledge of God’s Word is upon them and todays teachers, because of false beliefs. 2 Peter 2:1-3

‘If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused’, Even when the truth is presented to people who think they have it all sorted, they just cannot see it. Jeremiah 6:10

‘They preach prosperity, the prosperity theology that gives a sense of false security and escape from tribulation’, The very wrong and pretentious idea of a mythical pre tribulation rapture, that lulls people into thinking they need do nothing.

Be sure: that terrible Day will come upon everyone. Luke 21:35, 1 Peter 4:12

‘People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching’, 2 Peter 2:1-3, Matthew 24:4

My Day of wrath: The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. Rev 6:12-17, Zephaniah i:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7 The next prophesied event to happen.
But for those who make the effort to overcome the false teachings, the fictional books that proliferate on the book stalls and all the rubbish on the internet, there is hope: Psalms 78:1-8, Isaiah 55:1-3, Psalms 25:8-9, Psalms 27:11-12, Psalms 32:8, 2 Peter 1:19
Have nothing to do with superstitious myths, mere old wives tales. 1 Timothy 4:7

fhansen · 2025-11-08T13:51:58-0600

Brightfame52 said:
It's a rabbit trail. This is about the saving death of Christ, which obviously you are avoiding . Read the op again

It's only a rabbit trail for those who don't wish to facde the truth. Sin/deeds of the flesh will keep one from heaven, and yet believers sin. There is sin, according to John, that leads to death, that means we don't even know God. The church faced and addressed this truth centuries ago. You, apparently, have not.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-08T13:51:52-0600

2PhiloVoid said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree, sister SabbathBlessings.

No problem. God bless!

GeorgeSprites · 2025-11-08T13:51:51-0600

David Lamb said:
Can you really imagine God, Who is perfectly holy, agreeing that Christians should (in your words): "should use swear words to get the appropriate message and feeling across?" You will search the bible in vain for any example of a Christian doing such a thing. Quite the opposite:

“Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.” (Col 4:6 NKJV)

No way can swearing be described as speaking with grace.

God, is perfect Love, and, your words, even they include what we consider "curses" here, if they are from Love, they are one with the Holy!

Truly, the message of Loving all, is more important than any silly semantics. Focus on your intents and actions, that should be aligned with Love, that matters

BCP1928 · 2025-11-08T13:48:37-0600

stevevw said:
Why should not he appologise for claiming the whole thread is pseudoscience. Is that not a gross misrepresentation. Is that not tarring good people as whackos. I am justified to call out the logical fallacy.. Stop moralising everything. You missed tons of inappropriate comment. You seem very selective in your moral outrage.

Explain how I was wrong in calling out the gross misrepresentation as excluding other peoples beliefs and views as whacko. This has been going on all thread and I never hear anyone call it out. Accusing good people of being whackos and ametuers and cranks and all sorts of ad hominems.

Do you want me to go back and make the list of gross and demeaning comments. Really is that the hill you want to die on. Give me a break.

You accused Warden in so many words of denouncing Christianity as pseudoscience. That is slanderous and disgusting.

stevevw said:
.

There you go, only certain views and beliefs are allowed according. Exactly my point. You call Ancient and Indigenous knowledge as well as Christianity pseudoscience. We now know your belief.

Nobody is calling "ancient and indigenous knowledge" pseudoscience, either--just your imaginary ideas about it.

DaisyDay · 2025-11-08T13:47:26-0600

essentialsaltes said:
U.S. tsunami warning system, reeling from funding and staffing cuts, is dealt another blow
Seismic monitoring stations in Alaska are closing after a denied federal grant, risking delayed tsunami warnings for people living on the West Coast.

Nine seismic stations in Alaska are set to go dark this month, leaving tsunami forecasters without important data used to determine whether an earthquake will send a destructive wave barreling toward the West Coast.

The stations relied on a federal grant that lapsed last year; this fall, the Trump administration declined to renew it. A NOAA grant for about $300,000 each year had supported the stations.

The U.S. has two tsunami warning centers — one in Palmer, Alaska, and the other in Honolulu — that operate around-the-clock making predictions that help emergency managers determine whether coastal evacuations are necessary after an earthquake. The data from Alaska’s seismic stations has historically fed into the centers.

Both centers are already short-staffed.

Additionally, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration has decreased funding for the National Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program, which pays for the majority of states’ tsunami risk reduction work.

On top of that, NOAA laid off the National Weather Service’s tsunami program manager, Corina Allen, as part of the Trump administration’s firing of probationary workers in February, according to Harold Tobin, the Washington state seismologist. A

They really took a wrecking ball to the government but it's not like we were not warned.

fhansen · 2025-11-08T13:47:05-0600

Clare73 said:
Which is what sanctification and glorification are.

And justification: union with God is the whole enchilda- from beginning to end.

BPPLEE · 2025-11-08T13:46:35-0600

RocksInMyHead said:
The school lunch has always had a limited menu - you don't get a choice. That's a practical consideration; ingredients need to be purchased in bulk to keep costs down and be prepared in large quantities for serving a large number of students quickly. So, if we're already dictating what kids are eating at school, it might as well be healthier than, say, lunchroom pizza. That's distinct from the idea of policing what people are allowed to buy using the money that we give them to purchase food (beyond the limitation that it be food).

I used to buy my lunch half priced from a guy who got free lunch

Benaiah468 · 2025-11-08T13:44:04-0600

Desk trauma said:
Well, not on its territory anyway.

Worm turned on that one quickly.

G-d's plan for Gaza will prevail, regardless of what other nations or NGOs decide, even regardless of what Israel decides.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-08T13:42:25-0600

Trump healthcare plan just dropped.

Everyone knows individuals can negotiate the best healthcare prices possible!

CoreyD · 2025-11-08T13:40:18-0600

stevevw said:
The reality of free will sounds like there is some realness, fact or truth about it. Even this is a non verifiable claim. Just like those who say there is no free will.

Sometimes I think the very idea of free will is an idea that stems from a a non belief in God into a belief in whatever it is that has no God or gods that would ultimately judge us.

Because then all human made ideas about judgement and morals and all that are relative. So in some ways fundementally, right at the bottom underneath all the rationalisations this comes down to a belief. One with God and one without where everything is naturalistic and social construction.

Is not the idea of no free will is because we are subject to all sorts of forces, biases and influences based on the material processes. Even religious belief is an evolutionary by product and not real. We made up the gods as a coping mechanism lol.

But outside this limited worldview it seems our lived experiences and reality is that Free Will is real. As real as the chair we are sitting on as far as belief in it. Its just you can't put free will in a test tube.

I would say our lived reality is a reality. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and theres no arguement against it. Because we act like there is free will and we are not fools or are deluded lol. Its real and we don't need all the rationalisation. We just get on with it and live as if free will is as real and the phyical world.

The view of most people, is that free will is a philosophy.
Free will is a philosophical concept that refers to the ability of individuals to make choices and take actions without being coerced, especially when multiple options are available.

If it were that the Bible did not exist, then we could not argue that any concept is philosophical.
However, the Bible uses terms, we can understand, and gather their meaning.

The first use of the term persons accept as being "free will" is found at Hosea 14:4.
The Hebrew word is nedabah, which comes from the Hebrew word nadab, of which Topical Lexicon says...

The verb נָדַב consistently underlines a movement of the heart that is neither coerced nor merely dutiful. It describes people stirred from within to give, serve, or step forward because they have first been moved by God. Throughout Scripture this spirit of readiness is linked to worship, stewardship, civic responsibility, and warfare, revealing a multifaceted biblical theology of voluntary devotion.

This willingness is seen at Exodus 25:2 every man whose heart prompts him; and Exodus 35:21 Everyone whose heart stirred him and everyone whose spirit prompted him.
Thus, the term freewill was derived, since nedabah involves an action that is both willing and voluntary, done freely - of one's own accord... one's free will.

The term free will is therefore not philosophical, but theological.
Exercising free will first started with God, and as humans are made in God's image, they too have this God given attribute, as can be seen in the scriptures where God allows persons to give him worship of their own accord, or of their own free will.

In other words, God gave humans the opportunity to make a personal choice regarding their course in life.
Hence, Deuteronomy 30:19, 20

The argument that humans are not free, whether such arguments come from philosophers or those debating on this thread, have been shown to be baseless.
The Bible even dismisses these arguments in one statement.
Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16

So, the cry that we have no freedom, is not true, scripturally.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-08T13:38:57-0600

Two courts urge ICE to halt deportation of man wrongfully imprisoned for more than 40 years

Two different courts have called on immigration officials to halt deportation of a Pennsylvania man who spent more than 40 years in prison for a murder conviction that was recently overturned.

Subramanyam Vedam, 64, was brought to the United States by his parents when he was nine months old. Vedam is a legal permanent resident

He is currently being held in a short-term center in Alexandria, Louisiana, which is equipped with an airstrip for deportations.

He has maintained his innocence in the murder case throughout his time in prison and his conviction was overturned this year. He was released from state prison on 3 October only to be taken straight into immigration custody.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement is seeking to deport Vedam over his no contest plea to charges of LSD delivery, filed when he was about 20.

“Having a single conviction vacated will not stop ICE’s enforcement of the federal immigration law,” Tricia McLaughlin, assistant secretary for public affairs, said in an email.

concretecamper · 2025-11-08T13:38:32-0600

Clare73 said:
That is the meaning of "co-" in Co-Redemptrix; i.e., equality in redeeming from condemnation, which equality is only by paying the penalty for sin (death), which required a perfect (sinless) sacrifice, which Mary did not and was not.
Salvation is through faith in Christ (Eph 2:8-9) and his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25). . .not through faith in Mary. . .which is heresy.

Nothing is more clear in the NT.

Thank you for proving my point.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-08T13:34:05-0600

Editing federal employees’ emails to blame Democrats for shutdown violated their First Amendment rights, judge says

A federal judge ruled Friday that the Department of Education violated the First Amendment rights of some agency employees when it sent out-of-office messages on their behalf that blamed Democrats for the government shutdown.

The ruling from US District Judge Christopher Cooper is the latest court rebuke of controversial moves by the Trump administration during what has now become the longest shutdown in US history.

Cooper permanently barred the administration from “modifying furloughed employees’ out-of-office e-mail messages to include partisan speech” for all members of the union American Federation of Government Employees.

Hentenza · 2025-11-08T13:17:06-0600

HIM said:
The case was made in the post above that said, "it reads the same in the Greek".
It is your job to prove it doesn't. You yet to do that. You seem to think any answer is the correct one. The lack of depth and unwillingness to put the time in to actually address anything seems to be the norm here.
Sadly, in this case if you had put the time in to look you would have seen what was posted was true and you would have either liked the post or moved on silently in intellectual dishonesty holding onto the false interpretation that you started with.

Be that as it may, you asked so here is the an Interlinear. We went ahead and put a bold emphasis on the words to which you question in respect to whether they were in the Greek. Beside each word is it's translation, it being a Interlinear. If you like we can talk of the grammar and syntax. But it really isn't necessary.

One can clearly see the context is uninterrupted.
Because Grammatically speaking the context is continuous from verse 1 to at least 31 when it speaks of Christ coming with His angels to gather the elect at the end of this world.

How do we know? By His use of words like and, but, then, when wherefore, and so forth. These words connect what is about to be said to what is already said as was already stated to you above. And yes they are in the Greek and are for the most part translated correctly in most of our English translations.

So that means up to Christ's coming in the clouds of glory with His angels Jesus expected His followers to still be keeping the Sabbath. Because no one to whom He was speaking to is alive today to be alive at the time of the tribulation that is not like any before. This tribulation has not happened yet. How do we know?

Because Jesus said Immediately after this tribulation that is shortened so the Elect are preserved, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (vs.29-31)

Matt 24:2 ὁ δὲ But Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Οὐ βλέπετε See Ye Not πάντα All ταῦτα These Things? ἀμὴν Verily λέγω I Say ὑμῖν To You, οὐ μὴ Not At All ἀφεθῇ Shall Be Left ὧδε Here λίθος Stone ἐπὶ Upon λίθον Stone ὃς οὐ μὴ Which καταλυθήσεται Shall Not Be Thrown Down.
Matt 24:3 Καθημένου δὲ And As Was Sitting αὐτοῦ He ἐπὶ Upon τοῦ The Ὄρους Mount τῶν Ἐλαιῶν Of Olives προσῆλθον Came To αὐτῷ Him οἱ The μαθηταὶ κατ' Disciples ἰδίαν Apart, λέγοντες Saying, Εἰπὲ Tell ἡμῖν Us, πότε When ταῦτα These Things ἔσται Shall Be? καὶ And τί What 'Is' τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τῆς σῆς Of Thy παρουσίας Coming καὶ And τῆς Of The συντελείας Completion τοῦ Of The αἰῶνος Age?
Matt 24:4 καὶ And ἀποκριθεὶς Answering ὁ Ἰησοῦς Jesus εἶπεν Said αὐτοῖς To Them, Βλέπετε Take Heed, μή Lest τις Any One ὑμᾶς You πλανήσῃ· Mislead.
Matt 24:5 πολλοὶ γὰρ For Many ἐλεύσονται Will Come ἐπὶ In τῷ ὀνόματί μου My Name, λέγοντες, Saying, Ἐγώ I εἰμι Am ὁ The Χριστός, Christ; καὶ And πολλοὺς Many πλανήσουσιν They Will Mislead.
Matt 24:6 μελλήσετε δὲ But Ye Shall Be About ἀκούειν To Hear Of πολέμους Wars καὶ And ἀκοὰς Rumours πολέμων· Of Wars. ὁρᾶτε μὴ See, θροεῖσθε· Be Not Disturbed; δεῖ γὰρ For It Is Necessary All 'These' πάντα Things γενέσθαι To Take Place, ἀλλ' But οὔπω Not Yet ἐστὶν Is τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:7 ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ For Shall Rise Up ἔθνος Nation ἐπὶ Against ἔθνος Nation καὶ And βασιλεία Kingdom ἐπὶ Against βασιλείαν Kingdom; καὶ And ἔσονται There Shall Be λιμοὶ Famines καὶ And λοιμοί Pestilences καὶ And σεισμοὶ Earthquakes κατὰ In 'Different' τόπους· Places.
Matt 24:8 πάντα δὲ But All ταῦτα These 'Are' ἀρχὴ A Beginning ὠδίνων Of Throes.
Matt 24:9 τότε Then παραδώσουσιν Will They Deliver Up ὑμᾶς You εἰς To θλῖψιν Tribulation, καὶ And ἀποκτενοῦσιν Will Kill ὑμᾶς You; καὶ And ἔσεσθε Ye Will Be μισούμενοι Hated ὑπὸ By πάντων All τῶν The ἐθνῶν Nations διὰ On Account Of τὸ ὄνομά μου My Name.
Matt 24:10 καὶ And τότε Then σκανδαλισθήσονται Will Be Offended πολλοὶ Many, καὶ And ἀλλήλους One Another παραδώσουσιν They Will Deliver Up καὶ And μισήσουσιν Will Hate ἀλλήλους· One Another;
Matt 24:11 καὶ And πολλοὶ Many ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets ἐγερθήσονται Will Arise, καὶ And πλανήσουσιν Will Mislead πολλούς· Many;
Matt 24:12 καὶ And διὰ Because τὸ πληθυνθῆναι Shall Have Been Multiplied τὴν ἀνομίαν Lawlessness, ψυγήσεται Will Grow Cold ἡ The ἀγάπη Love τῶν Of The πολλῶν Many;
Matt 24:13 ὁ δὲ But He Who ὑπομείνας Endures εἰς To 'The' τέλος End οὗτος He σωθήσεται Shall Be Saved.
Matt 24:14 καὶ And κηρυχθήσεται There Shall Be Proclaimed τοῦτο These τὸ εὐαγγέλιον Glad Tidings τῆς Of The βασιλείας Kingdom ἐν In ὅλῃ All τῇ The οἰκουμένῃ Habitable Earth, εἰς For μαρτύριον A Testimony πᾶσιν To All τοῖς The ἔθνεσιν Nations; καὶ And τότε Then ἥξει Shall Come τὸ The τέλος End.
Matt 24:15 Ὅταν When οὖν Therefore ἴδητε Ye Shall See τὸ The βδέλυγμα Abomination τῆς ἐρημώσεως Of Desolation, τὸ Which ῥηθὲν Was Spoken Of διὰ By Δανιὴλ Daniel τοῦ The προφήτου Prophet, ἑστὸς Standing ἐν In 'The' τόπῳ Place ἁγίῳ Holy ὁ he Who ἀναγινώσκων Reads νοείτω Let Him Understand,
Matt 24:16 τότε Then οἱ Those ἐν In τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ Judea φευγέτωσαν Let Them Flee ἐπί To τὰ The ὄρη Mountains;
Matt 24:17 ὁ He ἐπὶ On τοῦ The δώματος μὴ Housetop καταβαινέτω Let Him Not Come Down ἆραι To Take τι Anything ἐκ Out Of τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ His
House;
Matt 24:18 καὶ And ὁ He ἐν In τῷ The ἀγρῷ μὴ Field ἐπιστρεψάτω Let Him Not Return ὀπίσω Back ἆραι To Take τὰ ἱμάτια Garments αὐτοῦ His.
Matt 24:19 οὐαὶ δὲ But Woe ταῖς ἐν To Those That γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις Are With Child καὶ And ταῖς To Those That θηλαζούσαις Give Suck ἐν In ἐκείναις Those ταῖς ἡμέραις Days.
Matt 24:20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ And (But) Pray ἵνα μὴ That γένηται May Not Be ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν Your Flight χειμῶνος In Winter, μηδὲ Nor ἐν On σαββάτῳ Sabbath :
Matt 24:21 ἔσται γὰρ For There Shall Be τότε Then θλῖψις Tribulation μεγάλη Great οἵα Such As οὐ Not γέγονεν Has Been ἀπ' From 'The' ἀρχῆς Beginning κόσμου Of 'The' World ἕως Until τοῦ νῦν Now, οὐδ No, οὐ μὴ Nor Ever γένηται Shall Be;
Matt 24:22 καὶ And εἰ μὴ Unless ἐκολοβώθησαν Had Been Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days, οὐκ ἂν Not ἐσώθη There Would Have Been Saved πᾶσα Any σάρξ· Flesh, διὰ δὲ But On Account Of τοὺς The ἐκλεκτοὺς Elect κολοβωθήσονται Shall Be Shortened αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι Those Days.
Matt 24:23 τότε Then ἐάν If τις Anyone ὑμῖν To You εἴπῃ Say, Ἰδού, Behold, ὧδε Here 'Is' ὁ The Χριστός, Christ, ἤ, Or Ὧδε, μὴ Here, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:24 ἐγερθήσονται There Will Arise γὰρ For ψευδόχριστοι False Christs καὶ And ψευδοπροφῆται False Prophets, καὶ And δώσουσιν Will Give σημεῖα Signs μεγάλα Great καὶ And τέρατα Wonders, ὥστε So As πλανῆσαι, To Mislead, εἰ If δυνατόν, Possible, καὶ Even τοὺς The ἐκλεκτούς· Elect.
Matt 24:25 ἰδού, Lo, προείρηκα I Have Foretold 'It' ὑμῖν To You.
Matt 24:26 ἐὰν If οὖν Therefore εἴπωσιν They Say ὑμῖν To You, Ἰδού, Behold, ἐν In τῇ The ἐρήμῳ Wilderness ἐστίν, μὴ He Is, ἐξέλθητε· Go Not Forth : Ἰδού, Behold, 'He Is' ἐν In τοῖς The ταμείοις μὴ Chambers, πιστεύσητε· Believe 'It' Not.
Matt 24:27 ὥσπερ γὰρ For As ἡ The ἀστραπὴ Lightning ἐξέρχεται Comes Forth ἀπὸ From 'The' ἀνατολῶν East καὶ And φαίνεται Appears ἕως As Far As 'The' δυσμῶν West, οὕτως So ἔσται Shall Be καὶ Also ἡ The παρουσία Coming τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· Of Man.
Matt 24:28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν For Wherever ᾖ May Be τὸ The πτῶμα Carcase, ἐκεῖ There συναχθήσονται Will Be Gathered Together οἱ The ἀετοί Eagles.
Matt 24:29 Εὐθέως Immediately δὲ But μετὰ After τὴν The θλῖψιν Tribulation τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων Of Those Days ὁ The ἥλιος Sun σκοτισθήσεται Shall Be Darkened, καὶ And ἡ The σελήνη Moon οὐ δώσει Shall Not Give τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς Her Light, καὶ And οἱ The ἀστέρες Stars πεσοῦνται Shall Fall ἀπὸ From τοῦ The οὐρανοῦ Heaven, καὶ And αἱ The δυνάμεις Powers τῶν Of The οὐρανῶν Heavens σαλευθήσονται Shall Be Shaken.
Matt 24:30 καὶ And τότε Then φανήσεται Shall Appear τὸ The σημεῖον Sign τοῦ Of The υἱοῦ Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man ἐν In τῷ The οὐρανῷ Heaven; καὶ And τότε Then κόψονται Shall Wail πᾶσαι All αἱ The φυλαὶ Tribes τῆς Of The γῆς Land, καὶ And ὄψονται They Shall See τὸν The υἱὸν Son τοῦ ἀνθρώπου Of Man, ἐρχόμενον Coming ἐπὶ On τῶν The νεφελῶν Clouds τοῦ οὐρανοῦ Of Heaven μετὰ With δυνάμεως Power καὶ And δόξης Glory πολλῆς· Great.
Matt 24:31 καὶ And ἀποστελεῖ He Shall Send τοὺς ἀγγέλους Angels αὐτοῦ His μετὰ With σάλπιγγος Of A Trumpet φωνῆς Sound μεγάλης Great, καὶ And ἐπισυνάξουσιν They Shall Gather Together τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ His Elect ἐκ From τῶν The τεσσάρων Four ἀνέμων Winds, ἀπ' From 'The' ἄκρων Extremities οὐρανῶν Of 'The' Heavens ἕως To 'The' ἄκρων Extremities αὐτῶν Of Them.

lol Posting the verses in Greek, which anyone can do, does not in any way change what I wrote, and you ignored, in my post 502. What are your credentials as a Greek scholar?

Go reply to my post 502.

mark46 · 2025-11-08T13:13:15-0600

Akita Suggagaki said:
They want to negotiate . It is the American way, or used to be.

Why bother with elections if it doesn't matter if you have a majority?

Amo2 · 2025-11-08T13:07:06-0600

Login to view embedded media
A good video about the unreliability of radiometric dating.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-11-08T13:03:17-0600

Michie said:
Open coffin and chaplain in a Dracula cape: Church receives hate comments for "Halloween service"

A Halloween service with an open coffin, artificial fog, and a chaplain in a Dracula cape: This pleased around 50 residents of Freising – and angered many others.

But the Latin Mass is the problem

Halloween and the Catholic Church, do they somehow go together? Yes, says Freising parish vicar Michael Korell, pointing to the Catholic origins of the evening before All Saints' Day and therefore advocating for a "Halloween service" on October 31 in the Mortuary chapel at St. George's Cemetery. With plenty of artificial fog, a semi-open coffin, and a touch of spooky atmosphere.

Under the Dracula cape, Chaplain Michael Korell wore his official vestments.

Continued below.

Catholic priest holds Halloween service dressed as Dracula - video

cathcon.blogspot.com

.... That's interesting. :swoon:

I'm not sure that this form of 'seeker friendly' service really does the job or represents the appropriate awareness of sanctity. But that's just my comment in passing.

Amo2 · 2025-11-08T13:01:04-0600

The Only Path To Tomorrow
Ayn Rand

Readers Digest, January 1944, pp. 88-90

The greatest threat to mankind and civilization is the spread of the totalitarian philosophy. Its best ally is not the devotion of its followers but the confusion of its enemies. To fight it, we must understand it.

Totalitarianism is collectivism. Collectivism means the subjugation of the individual to a group — whether to a race, class or state does not matter. Collectivism holds that man must be chained to collective action and collective thought for the sake of what is called ``the common good.´´

Throughout history, no tyrant ever rose to power except on the claim of representing ``the common good.´´ Napoleon ``served the common good´´ of France. Hitler is ``serving the common good´´ of Germany. Horrors which no man would dare consider for his own selfish sake are perpetrated with a clear conscience by ``altruists´´ who justify themselves by-the common good.

No tyrant has ever lasted long by force of arms alone. Men have been enslaved primarily by spiritual weapons. And the greatest of these is the collectivist doctrine that the supremacy of the state over the individual constitutes the common good. No dictator could rise if men held as a sacred faith the conviction that they have inalienable rights of which they cannot be deprived for any cause whatsoever, by any man whatsoever, neither by evildoer nor supposed benefactor.

This is the basic tenet of individualism, as opposed to collectivism. Individualism holds that man is an independent entity with an inalienable right to the pursuit of his own happiness in a society where men deal with one another as equals.

The American system is founded on individualism. If it is to survive, we must understand the principles of individualism and hold them as our standard in any public question, in every issue we face. We must have a positive credo, a clear consistent faith.

We must learn to reject as total evil the conception that the common good is served by the abolition of individual rights. General happiness cannot be created out of general suffering and self-immolation. The only happy society is one of happy individuals. One cannot have a healthy forest made up of rotten trees.

The power of society must always be limited by the basic, inalienable rights of the individual.

The right of liberty means man's right to individual action, individual choice, individual initiative and individual property. Without the right to private property no independent action is possible.

The right to the pursuit of happiness means man's right to live for himself, to choose what constitutes his own, private, personal happiness and to work for its achievement. Each individual is the sole and final judge in this choice. A man's happiness cannot be prescribed to him by another man or by any number of other men.

These rights are the unconditional, personal, private, individual possession of every man, granted to him by the fact of his birth and requiring no other sanction. Such was the conception of the founders of our country, who placed individual rights above any and all collective claims. Society can only be a traffic policeman in the intercourse of men with one another.

From the beginning of history, two antagonists have stood face to face, two opposite types of men: the Active and the Passive. The Active Man is the producer, the creator, the originator, the individualist. His basic need is independence — in order to think and work. He neither needs nor seeks power over other men — nor can he be made to work under any form of compulsion. Every type of good work — from laying bricks to writing a symphony — is done by the Active Man. Degrees of human ability vary, but the basic principle remains the same: the degree of a man's independence and initiative determines his talent as a worker and his worth as a man.

The Passive Man is found on every level of society, in mansions and in slums, and his identification mark is his dread of independence. He is a parasite who expects to be taken care of by others, who wishes to be given directives, to obey, to submit, to be regulated, to be told. He welcomes collectivism, which eliminates any chance that he might have to think or act on his own initiative.

When a society is based on the needs of the Passive Man it destroys the Active; but when the Active is destroyed, the Passive can no longer be cared for. When a society is based on the needs of the Active Man, he carries the Passive ones along on his energy and raises them as he rises, as the whole society rises. This has been the pattern of all human progress.

Some humanitarians demand a collective state because of their pity for the incompetent or Passive Man. For his sake they wish to harness the Active. But the Active Man cannot function in harness. And once he is destroyed, the destruction of the Passive Man follows automatically. So if pity is the humanitarians' first consideration, then in the name of pity, if nothing else, they should leave the Active Man free to function, in order to help the Passive. There is no other way to help him in the long run.

The history of mankind is the history of the struggle between the Active Man and the Passive, between the individual and the collective. The countries which have produced the happiest men, the highest standards of living and the greatest cultural advances have been the countries where the power of the collective — of the government, of the state — was limited and the individual was given freedom of independent action. As examples: The rise of Rome, with its conception of law based on a citizen's rights, over the collectivist barbarism of its time. The rise of England, with a system of government based on the Magna Carta, over collectivist, totalitarian Spain. The rise of the United States to a degree of achievement unequaled in history — by grace of the individual freedom and independence which our Constitution gave each citizen against the collective.

While men are still pondering upon the causes of the rise and fall of civilizations, every page of history cries to us that there is but one source of progress: Individual Man in independent action. Collectivism is the ancient principle of savagery. A savage's whole existence is ruled by the leaders of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

We are now facing a choice: to go forward or to go back.

Collectivism is not the ``New Order of Tomorrow.´´ It is the order of a very dark yesterday. But there is a New Order of Tomorrow. It belongs to Individual Man — the only creator of any tomorrows humanity has ever been granted. (Readers Digest, January 1944, pp. 88-90)

While the author of the above article was certainly not a Christian by any means, the truth embodied in the above article should not be denied by anyone who is. As it will be found in later chapters examining Protestant thought in relation to government and the founding of this nation, her thoughts concerning individualism were certainly not original or new. Though without question her views came from a different perspective, their motive was much the same as that of the Reformers, a reaction and observation in relation to experiential knowledge of abusive government. Hers at the hands of Communistic collectivism, and theirs at the hands for the most part of heavily Roman Catholic imbibed Feudalism. As the above author mentioned Hitler as one proposing the establishment of the common good, the above article itself being written in 1944, the following is his twenty fifth point, of the 25 Points of the Nazi Party.

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

GoldenBoy89 · 2025-11-08T12:59:49-0600

Always in His Presence said:
Bringing peace into several cities

You have got to be kidding.

Job 33:6 · 2025-11-08T12:58:23-0600

CoreyD said:
That is an illogical statement.
Something that exist is already created. It doesn't not exist.

It isn't illogical at all. God created Adam and Eve, and yet Adam and Eve materially already existed, Adam was made of dust and that dust already existed.

Bara in the old testament never involves material matter coming into existence out of nothing.

So when God creates the heavens and the earth in Genesis, it shouldn't be an assumption that the earth materially came into existence out of nothing. That's simply not what that word, bara, means.

In fact, materially, the heavens and the earth are already there. And that's how it is in the Bible. Whether it's David's clean heart. Ezekiels sign post. People creating cleared land in Joshua, or God creating Jacob or Israel, or God creating a blacksmith in Isaiah.

In all circumstances and verses, when God creates, it always involves circumstances in which the physical matter is already there. And it never involves matter coming into existence out of nothing. Never. There is no instance in the old testament in which matter appears out of nothing. In the new testament it is talked about. But never in the old testament.

See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc. Isaiah 54:16

This passage, for example, is not saying that a blacksmith materially came into existence out of nothing. The blacksmith is materially already there.

And so it is with Genesis, when God creates the Earth, it's not saying that the Earth came into existence out of nothing, rather the material matter is already there. God is just doing something with that matter.

And with that said, we come to find the Genesis never actually talks about how long the Earth materially existed. Rather it only describes God taking what is already materially there and creating it. Just like with the blacksmith, God take something materially already there and makes the blacksmith. He does not make the blacksmith appear out of thin air. He takes something that already materially exists, and creates it.

keras · 2025-11-08T12:49:05-0600

Douggg said:
Modern day Israel is again well populated after being desolate for 2000 years.

You seem to have difficulty in reading and understanding Prophesies like the OP of this thread. ALL of the apostate, ungodly and false religion peoples will be gone after the Lords Day of wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18 makes that crystal clear.

The new nation of Beulah will live in all of the Holy Land, that will have just been cleared and cleansed by the Lord.
'desolated', as per Hosea 4:3

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