Tellyontellyon said:

I believe in God.. but I don't know God. I don't know if God corresponds to any particular scriptures. How does one begin to sift through the different ideas to come to the truth.. what is the best way to approach the search?

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You know I was thinking of this very subject. How would a Christian explain Christianity or the message in the gospel or bible today. It seems a big topic and we hear about all the Christian apologetics let alone secular arguements about God and Christianity.

Its like how does anyone get any message out about anything in an age of info and rationalisations about what a Christian is, what is the right way. I mean we have 101 denominations all differing and arguing. No wonder people are bewilded.

Then I thought what happened in the early church. How did they get the message out. What was the message. Did they have appologetics. I mean they did not even have the bible apart from the old testament for much of the first century.

The disciples and especially Paul and others were going out more than ever to spread the message. So it wasn't as if there was no message they all knew to preach.

Then I realised it was so simple. They were witnesses and were being eye witnesses. They were giving an eye witness account of what happened and why. Thats it. The gospel. A simple message that Christ died and was raised again and that He sacrificed His life for us as sinners. That by believing this testimony you are saved.

Its so simple that we can miss it and complicate it. It is just repeating the eye witness testimony that we believe the same. We believe it really happened. From that all else flows.

When Paul speaks of the spirit and flesh you cannot know the spirit and flesh unless you live in Christs spirit. So it is the spirit that opens our eyes as we come closer to God. We can read something one day and then we understand. But the more we live in Christs spirit the more we understand. We will understand like the disciples understand because the spirit is for all and the same spirit.

I don't think its much more complicated than that because there are many people with varying abilities and some uneducated or with setbacks but can still understand. I don't think theres some complicated answer and its really the truth and real life if God is the God of life.

I think most people already know the truth and thats not always some arguement that makes it true according to some philsopher. I think its all contained within the bible. Early Christians did not have all the modern day arguements.

I am not saying comentary or appologetics doesn't help. It helps a lot in perhaps giving a more detailed response to the same basic truth. But I don't think we need that to believe the truth. Its more than that. That is why sometimes people will disagree. I mean how can two Christians disagree lol, they are suppose to be of one mind and spirit. I think keep it simple.

Another aspect to consider is that there are different personalities ie agreeable, assertive, disagreeable, introverted ect. Then you have personal experience. These can all influence the interaction and a confident liar can sometimes outsmart or play a not so sure truth teller.
Yes even in the church. They are the wolves and they are good at it so watch em. Just stay away lol.

But fundementally its about a belief and a sacrifice that have no winning arguement. Its taking on that belief that it renews your mind and you can see what cannot be seen and hear what cannot be heard by the world. I like Psalm 46:10 is fitting "Be still and know that I am God".

I think in the Christian life there are black, whites and greys. It’s not an “American” thing, it’s a human nature thing.

It’s good to be stubborn on vital faith matters like Jesus is the son of God, Jesus is the Lord, Jesus is God, Jesus died on the cross, Jesus resurrected, Jesus will come back, no other god should be worshipped. It doesn’t matter how much anyone would try to debunk or contradict, this is a vital Christian doctrine and one should die on that hill, as many have already.

There are black, whites and greys on other topics, like human death. Murder is always wrong, but death penalty is justice (one may ask does it make the judge or executioner a murderer?). This is an example of a grey. People dying from insufficient medical resources or affordability is not neglect or murder, this is also grey.

It’s not good to be stubborn on matters of personal preference or things that are very open to interpretation, like “how the church hierarchy is supposed to be?”. These non-vital matters have broken the church into denominations for centuries.

Or the great schism of 1054, “Does God the Father send the Holy Spirit or does the Son send the Holy Spirit?”. There is not right answer as there are explicit verses to both claims, but this debate broke the church into two denominations (catholic & orthodox). It certainly isn’t a virtue in these examples.

I’m definitely not a church history expert, but learning about it may help put things into context by seeing cause and effect of different events and may open debate on wether it was good or bad, if there is any right answer to that.

Stubbornness can be good, it can be bad, it can be grey and matter of personal opinion and preference. I think these things requires wisdom as Solomon asked God.

Fervent said:

I believer in universal morality, so there is no conflict for me. But you claim there is no such thing, so how can you condemn anything and remain consistent with your claims?

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The same way all of us always have.

Fervent said:

uh huh.

So it will be.

Vernacular usage of "theory" is closer to how theory is used in that term than the scientific usage, even if it is a technical term in psychology. Though there's really not much use in discussing this further, as i am now aware of the term and have made clear my prior ignorance.

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Awareness is good, understanding how "theory of mind" works in decision making and moral formation is better.

Fervent said:

The sense where if you believe that something that is wrong is not wrong, or something that is right is not right, you are mistaken in your belief and not just holding a personal preference.

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Once we realize that there is no such dilemma we can move on to actually dealing with moral reality.

Michie said:

With Millennials and Generation Z leading the way, particularly among men, Bible reading among U.S. adults in 2025 is at its highest level in the last 15 years, according to new data from the "State of the Church" initiative.

The initiative by Barna Group and Gloocollected data from 12,116 online interviews conducted between January and October of 2025. The research revealed that approximately 50% of self-identified Christians report reading the Bible weekly, the highest level of Bible reading among Christians in more than a decade.

Weekly Bible reading among all U.S. adults reached its lowest point in 15 years in 2024 when it hit 30%. In 2025, the figure rebounded 12 percentage points to 42%, according to the latest data.

"Bible reading is rising again across generations, marking a reset to faith engagement levels we haven't seen in a decade," David Kinnaman, CEO of Barna Group, said in a statement. "People aren't just curious about faith — they're opening Scripture for themselves. This trend aligns with other signs of renewal we've seen in our research, like growing commitments to Jesus and increased church attendance."

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More Americans are now reading the Bible but fewer believe it’s 100% accurate: study

With Millennials and Generation Z leading the way, particularly among men, Bible reading among U S adults in 2025 is at its highest level in the last 15 years, according to new data from the State of

www.christianpost.com

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Or maybe that just means they aren't reading it with Fundamentalist slavishly literalist standards. That could be good.

Lukaris said:

The key thing I believe is that as long as you put the humanity of women first as the Lord did ( John 8:1-12 etc.), as opposed to sex objects, your heart is right. I believe much of what Paul says in Romans 7 comes into play here. He is telling us the whole truth but many of us will struggle in the process. If we love our neighbor we pray for their salvation ( Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 9:36-38, 1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc.). Is not lowering a beautiful woman to our base desire actually lowering their humanity to an object of our sinful desire? ( to understand Matthew 5:27-30 purely spiritually). Struggling with lustful images is rough but the golden rule must be stronger ( Matthew 7:1-12).

I just want to add that whatever a Christian may know about sin & adultery, we must take care not to assume our neighbors caught up in adultery are monsters. Pimps, predators etc. are obvious monsters ( although we must still remember forgiveness in the Lord’s Prayer etc.). In this fallen world many are lonely, have intimacy dysfunctions ( I know I do), may be genuinely loving but lustful also etc etc.

John 16:33

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I dont really know have a good direct response to what you said. I will admit though I'm sure I dont do the best of jobs doing what you said at all even if I pray for them. I just get tired of dealing with this struggle. After a while its such a drain on me mentally to fight it. I don't want to anymore and wish God would just take it away from me.

rjs330 said:

Okay, then give them a time limit to get a better paying job. And if they can't seem to find one, assign them one. If you are a healthy adult then theee isn't any reason you can't find a better paying job within a reasonable amount of time.

Right now it's mostly 60 months. 5 years? You have to be kidding me. If you are a healthy adult you shouldn't be in welfare any longer than 6 months. At least in today's economy.

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nope the five years is for actual welfare ( that is money to use on whatever they need ( as opposed to just for food that also generally ONLY applies to families and is five years is life time. Of course the time their parents spent on there does not count for the children if they end up on it later in life.

I think spiritually theres a message. Like the Flood people got to a point in rejecting and defying God that brought judgement. It was so evil that it made bad look good. But still they did not lean and the spirit of that evil defiance lives on.

It is the way it has always gone until Christ returns. People reject God and the end result eventually is gross evil and defiance of God. Its almost inherited in the fall until evil has its way and it is no more. Like history repeating itself.

I think we can see the developing spirit of change away from God generally. I think we crossed a threshold as the so called free western empire that Christianity came from finally rejected God from the public square and we have seen the changing culture. What was unacceptable decades ago is now the norm.

I reckon some goings on today pretty well are getting up there with the goings on in the back streets of Sodom lol.

Underdog

Larniavc said:

I’m in two minds about this. On the one hand I think it is imperative that non-citizens in America must be punished but on the other hand I think it’s crazy to punish non-citizens in America.

You can see the bind I’m in.

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If a person breaks the law then they should be punished whether they are a citizen or non citizen. Actions have consequences.

Trump indicated last night he wanted to keep SNAP funds frozen.


Why would he choose to do that?

Pope Leo XIV addressed a message to the approximately 300 exorcist priests who came together September 15–20 for the 15th International Gathering of the International Association of Exorcists (IAE) at the Fraterna Domus House of Spirituality in Sacrofano, near Rome.

The Holy Father expressed his appreciation for the priests who dedicate themselves to the “delicate and necessary ministry of the exorcist.” The pontiff urged them to carry it out “both as a ministry of liberation and as a ministry of consolation.”

In a message signed by Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the pope also exhorted pastors to provide spiritual support to the faithful who are suffering.

Pope Leo emphasized the need to “support the faithful truly possessed by the evil one with prayer and the invocation of Christ’s effective presence, so that through the sacramental of exorcism the Lord may grant victory over Satan.”

The pope’s words were read at the opening of the event—held every two years—by Father Francesco Bamonte, vice president of the IAE and moderator of the conference.

During the presentations, Monsignor Karel Orlita, president of the IAE and exorcist for the Diocese of Brno in the Czech Republic, highlighted the beauty of the ecclesial communion in which this ministry, firmly rooted in the Gospel, is embedded, and underlined the importance of the ongoing formation that the association promotes in Italy and abroad.

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All appearances to me are that Trump is trying to create enough consternation and turmoil within the borders (however that could POSSIBLY be) that conflict will allow him to cancel midterms or (fingers crossed) 2028 though that's a ways away still.

I mean...Trump STILL wanted to withhold SNAP payments from the poor.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/10/us/snap-benefits-limbo-shutdown-court

Boy I hope me having a problem like this isn't because I "hate Trump so much"

To know the end is near, to watch for the end, St. Augustine taught that the fruit of such knowledge and vigilance is patience. Instead of anxiety, instead of chaos and overactivity, rather calm should rest the soul of the believer.

The readings this Sunday are indeed about the end. “Lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven,” the passage from Malachi begins (Mal 3:19). Like Jeremiah before him, Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple; after this, he’ll talk about the destruction of Jerusalem. Yet what he fully means by “the end” is bigger than that (Lk 21:5-24). Jesus here is talking apocalyptically.

That is, reading all this we can’t help but think of the ultimate end. Of that inevitable future these passages are meant to remind us. We are being spiritually prepared in these readings for the season of Advent, prepared even for that reality beyond all Advents, for the final advent of Christ the Lord.

The spiritual capacity to endure​

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Paulwat said:

Lately I’ve really been struggling with anxiety and OCD, especially around intrusive fears about hell. It’s been taking over my thoughts and making it hard to get through the day. Sometimes I get stuck worrying about people I care about possibly “going there,” and other times I spiral into fear about myself.

Whenever I come across posts that talk about eternal torture or damnation, it makes everything worse — it triggers the anxiety and sends me into a loop I can’t easily escape. I know these thoughts don’t reflect who I am or what I truly believe, but they still feel so real in the moment.

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This used to be me. For me, what helped was leaving these things to God and refraining my thought process. God is good, so He has his ways to pursue people for his kingdom in gentle and loving ways.

Sometimes all the retoric about hell is perceived by people as manipulative and as something that draws people to church out of fear, and not out of love. Refraining your thought process to understand that the gospel is about God’s love, mercy and grace could be helpful.

I was like this because I was taught a overly judgmental and pharisaic approach to Christianity, where silly things (like being grumpy one day) were exaggerated into very bad “evils” and guilt was used manipulatively. This type of christian interpretation of the gospel is very law oriented and harmful. It has been also hard for me to accept I may not be perfect, but I’m definitely not the most evil human being for having character flaws and occasional slips with sin, or struggling with personal particular issues long periods of time with little success. Sin cannot be fully conquered in this life and that doesn’t mean we are all going to hell.

Being doctrinally sound in this topic is always important, as universal reconciliation is not biblical. At the end of the day we want to believe in the God that is and not in the God we want him to be. Hell is a necessary evil because evil exists and deserves punishment.

I believe God wants and will make sure hell contains every unrepentant rapist, child abuser, human trafficker, mass murderer, violent dictator and every man or woman who does unspeakable evil against their fellow man. God’s justice is about the purity of the heart, the intent of the soul and how this translates to actions and behaviors.

Humility is key, we are not meant to understand everything about how God will judge, but we can be sure God is just and people who deserve eternal punishment for their evil will receive it and those who God gives grace to will be saved and forgiven fully. I don’t recommend getting worked up with deep theological debates on salvation, just trust God, be thankful for the good in you, address the sin and evil that is still in your heart and live everyday in peace.

Norma?

jamiec said:

Psalm 136 is full of repetitions. Repetition is not forbidden. Vain piling up of words - a common Evangelical practice - is what is forbidden.

Psalm 136 ESV

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I'm sorry to suggest that some Evangelical protestants do not have the total market on empty repetition in "praying." It began with Cain and Abel.

Mt 6:7 "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Mt 6:8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Mt 6:9 Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.....

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Cain had perhaps noticed the way his brother Abel prayed..., or offered..., or worshipped.... His brother no doubt had within him a sense of reverence. He no doubt honored God in his acts, and his words, and his whole demeaner. He no doubt walked with God, and Cain, no doubt, did not. Some men walk with God realizing Him - that is, knowing God is Real in them, and with them. Other men are all about themselves, and attempt from time to time to do something to fool God (if He even exists) and other men, pretending to be religious in the eyes of men, in order that religiosity might be of profit to them somehow.

Such men are pretenders - actors - hypocrites. God sees their hearts. But to them, God says what He said to Cain:

Gen 4:3 In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,
Gen 4:4 and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,
Gen 4:5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin ....is couching at the door; its desire is for you,..... but you must master it."
Gen 4:8 Cain said to Abel his brother, "Let us go out to the field." And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel, and killed him.

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No, Cain had an idol in him: Himself. He was a god unto himself. He would not live for God (if He even existed), he would live for himself. He would immitate outwardly, or so he thought, what he saw of his honorable brother Abel; but in himself, he would "do it his own way." God warned him: "if you do well, will you not be accepted?" Prayer, and offering, and worship, must be "done" "well" - within. But men who are in love with themselves, do all for themselves. Inordinate Self-Love is our greatest interior enemy, and this self-love must be done away with - and can be, in His Holy Grace.

Wow, you quoted 4 words out of my post and you claim that you are refuting what I write? That’s a joke, right? Here is my post 368 in full.

Hentenza said:

Non dodge whatsoever. My post was quite long and contained several verses but you only quoted a couple of sentences and do not address my argument. So who is dodging.

And you continue to get it wrong.

It is quite clear but you are arguing the wrong side of the verse.


“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;

The verse is very clear that APART from the law the righteousness of God has been revealed. Did you get that part “apart from the law”?

Your secular definition of righteousness falls in light of the redemptive sacrifice of our Lord.

This is about the birth of John the Baptist. How do these verses help you? Jesus was not even born yet so of course they were still under the law. Proper application of the elements of hermeneutics is important.

“For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

bible.com

Are you suggesting that Paul and James are in tension? You are divorcing the context from the verse to attempt to teach what it does not teach?

“Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

James 2:21-23 Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the S | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the S

bible.com

“For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.” Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4‬:‭2‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 4:2-8 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Now to | New American Standard Bible - NASB

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Now to

bible.com

Are these verses contradicting each other? Of course not. It is your interpretation that creates the tension that should not be there. In general, Paul teaches justification while James teaches sanctification. Paul is speaking of God’s legal declaration of us as righteous as Christ’s righteousness is applied to our account. James is using the word justified to mean “being demonstrated and proved.”

James 2:14-26 is about proving the genuineness of your faith by what you do. A genuine salvation experience by faith in Jesus Christ will inevitably result in good works (Eph. 2:10) but not the works of the law.

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HARK! said:

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.


James, brother of Yahshua, of the inner circle of the Apostles, purported the head of the ecclessia after Yahshua's ascension, claims that works play a part in our justification, along with faith.

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I addressed this in my post 324 which you dodged.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Ro 3:28
For we are reckoning a man to be justified by faith apart from works of law.



Paul, a Torah scholar, having studied under Gamaliel, and sent by Yahshua from the road to Damascus that we are not justified by works of the law. I don't believe for a moment that Paul was contradicting James; or James would have surely corrected him.

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Your interpretation puts them in tension. Here Paul is clearly and emphatically stating that only through faith is a person justified. He repeats it again in Gal. 2:16.

“nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

HARK! said:

Clearly works are different than works of the law.


(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.


Here, Paul, in the same letter that the doers of the law will be justified. I don't believe for a moment that Paul is contradicting himself. I don't believe that he was suffering from mental dysfunction; and that he couldn't remember what he had written several paragraphs before.

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Once again quote mining and isolation leads to error every time. Thus chapter us about God’s impartiality with regards to the Jews (circumcised) and the gentiles (uncircumcised). Keep reading to get what Paul is actually saying.

“For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a violator of the Law, your circumcision has turned into uncircumcision. So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will his uncircumcision not be regarded as circumcision? And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a violator of the Law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2‬:‭25‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Circumcision is of the heart NOT if the letter of the law. Read the chapter to understand the author’s context and intention.

HARK! said:

Clearly the law, and works, are different than works of the law.

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Here Paul is talking about the works of the law. Following the law is a work.

HARK! said:

I don't see "Works of Law" mentioned in the Torah. I don't see any mention of it by Yahshua. Paul is the only one in the Bible to use this expression.

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Doesn’t have to. If Jesus so clearly stated that Salvation is by faith and not by works then the works of the law are part of these works just as Abraham was saved by his faith not by his works.

HARK! said:

Where is Paul getting this?

It is mentioned up to 6 times, 4 times in Galatians, and maybe 2 times in Romans.
Galatians 2:16, 3:2, 3:5, 3:10 Romans 3:27, 9:32


It is also mentioned in the Qumran Scrolls.
Q394 (4QMMTa) 4QHalakhic Letter
Dead Sea Scrolls Project: 4QMMT


Definition of halacha
: the body of Jewish law supplementing the scriptural law and forming especially the legal part of the Talmud
Definition of HALACHA


Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over the Torah. Yahshua kept the Torah and called us to follow his example. Paul followed yahshua's example and called us to follow his example.

Remember that dogma (such as the Talmud) was nailed to the torture stake, not Yah's eternal Torah.

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Jesus came to refute those that peddled the law for the sake of their traditions. Paul nailed the law, all of it, to the cross. None of it is required of the Christian.

No, it is, in my opinion, nonsensical to read into the 70 Weeks prophecy 2 sets of 70 Weeks of years. Can you imagine if I told someone that the mail is coming in one week, but actually expect him or her to understand that as being two weeks?

The overly ethos of "help the suffering" should kind of be enough.

Just one of many reasons America will eventually be judged. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow... but it will be.

You know the easy way to deal with insider trading now that Republicans have full control of 3 branches?

Create laws to punish insider trading by elected officials and their families.

Go Republicans Go! I know how upset their base is about this. I'm SURE it'd be a no brainer.

BNR32FAN said:

So as far as sin goes they’re pretty much the same? Neither are completely absent from sin and neither are completely absent from doing good?

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Slaves to sin refers to a lifestyle of disobedience, not found among the born again.

Benaiah468 said:

We can speed things up. Here's what I suggest: travel to Gaza for a few weeks, to the area controlled by Hamas, and report on it. Good luck!

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The overlap between Mamdami and Hamas policy being what exactly?

Dhaka police have arrested a 28-year-old man in connection with homemade bomb attacks that targeted a Catholic cathedral and a Church-run school in Bangladesh’s capital this month.

Police investigators identified the suspect as a member of Bangladesh Chhatra League, the banned student wing of the Awami League, the political party of ousted Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina. The suspect is being questioned about multiple incidents, including the Nov. 7-8 explosions at St. Mary’s Cathedral and St. Joseph School, one of the country’s prominent Catholic educational institutions.

The Dhaka Metropolitan Police, working with the country’s elite Rapid Action Battalion, has launched a citywide search for additional suspects. Police have increased security at churches and other religious sites across the capital.

Bangladesh’s interim government, which took power after Hasina’s ouster in August, said it remains committed to protecting religious minorities and will prosecute those who threaten religious harmony.

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