keras said:

Stupidity.

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Not at all.
If Jesus isn't returning for several years, we've got loads of time. I'm not going to do any of the stuff that I mentioned - I love Jesus and want to serve him. But if you told a non Christian that they needed to repent to be ready for Jesus' return, they asked when he was coming back and you said, "oh in about 20 years or so", they would ask, "well what's the rush, then?"

keras said:

WE Christians have not yet made the new Covenant with the Lord. Hebrews 8:10-12 proves it.

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Jesus' blood seals the new Covenant.
God's word being in our hearts doesn't refer to learning Scripture - learning Scripture means it is in your mind but doesn't mean that you have accepted it and are living it. All Jewish boys had to learn their Scriptures by heart. It didn't prevent them from sinning and disobeying them.
God's Word is Jesus. Jesus told his disciples to remain IN him and he would remain IN us.
Because of the cross, we are reconciled to, and at peace with, God.
Because of Pentecost, God's Spirit can live IN believers. It is the Holy Spirit who confirms to us that we are God's children, Romans 8:16-17.
Before he died, Jesus said to his disciples, "this is my blood of the new covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins", Matthew 26:28.

keras said:

Do you think that nothing special or dramatic will happen before Jesus Returns?

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Dramatic things are happening all the time - and have been since the ascension.

Zacharias was the father of John the Baptist, and he spoke these prophetic words right after his wife Elizabeth had given birth to their son, John, whom God called to be “a voice of one crying in the wilderness, ‘make straight the way of the Lord,’ as Isaiah the prophet said” (John 1:23 NASB1995). John was to preach and to baptize for repentance, to prepare the way of the Lord Jesus Christ, to get the people of Israel ready to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Messiah, the promised seed of Abraham (see Galatians 3:16).

For the redemption of the Israelites spoken about here, which is available for all people ever since Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection, is about Jesus’ sacrifice of his body and his blood on that cross to buy us back for God out of our lives of living in slavery to sin and for self, so that, by God-persuaded faith in Christ, we will now serve the Lord with our lives in walks of surrender to God in obedience to his commands in holy living. For by faith we are rescued from what enslaved us so we can live holy lives, pleasing to God.

And John the Baptist fulfilled God’s calling upon his life to prepare the hearts of the people to receive Jesus Christ as the promised seed of Abraham, their Messiah, although most of the Jews at that time chose not to believe in Jesus. And many of the rulers and teachers of the law, and people of influence in the temple of God (at that time), were strongly opposed to Jesus Christ, and so they continually harassed him and tried to trip him up with his words, in hopes that they would have cause to accuse him of wrongdoing.

But John the Baptist was to give the Israelites (the Jews) of that time the knowledge of salvation by the forgiveness of their sins. But this salvation is not a free pass to keep living in sin and in disobedience to God without conscience and without remorse, as many people teach it today. For by faith in Jesus we are delivered (saved) out of our addiction to sin so we can now live for God in walks of obedience to his commands. For repentance is turning away from sin so we can live for our Lord in surrender to his will.

For by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing, we are crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as slaves to righteousness in walks of obedience to God’s commands. We are no longer to permit sin to reign in our mortal bodies to make us obey its desires. For if sin is what we obey, it results in death. But if obedience to God is what we obey, it results in sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

But that knowledge of salvation from sin was not meant to be for the Jews only, but to include the Gentiles, which God had planned all along. And by faith in Jesus Christ, Jew and Gentile became one, no longer separate, but one people of God, one holy nation, the Israel of God. And all Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah (the Christ) were cut out of Israel. But by faith in Jesus Christ they can be united with the Israel of God. So there is only one biblical nation of Israel, and it is all who believe in Jesus Christ.

[Genesis 17:7-9; Genesis 18:19; John 8:18-19,38-47; Romans 2:28-29; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Romans 9:4-8,25-28; Romans 11:1-36; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 3:16,26-29; Galatians 4:22-31; Ephesians 2:11-22; Ephesians 3:1-6; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-16; Hebrews 8:6-13;1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:22; Jude 1:5; Revelation 2:9; Revelation 3:9]

O Come, O Come, Emmanuel

Anonymous/Unknown
Tr. By John M. Neale, 1851

O come, O come, Emmanuel,
And ransom captive Israel
That mourns in lonely exile here
Until the Son of God appear.

O come, Thou Wisdom from on high,
Who orders all things mightily;
To us the path of knowledge show,
And teach us in its ways to go.

O come, Thou Branch of Jesse’s stem,
Unto Thine own and rescue them!
From depths of hell Thy people save,
And give them vict’ry o’er the grave.

O come, Thou Key of David, come
And open wide our heav’nly home;
Make safe for us the heav’nward road,
And bar the way to death’s abode.

O come, Thou Bright and Morning Star,
And bring us comfort from afar!
Dispel the shadows of the night
And turn our darkness into light.

O come, Desire of nations, bind
In one the hearts of all mankind;
Bid all our sad divisions cease,
And be Thyself our King of Peace.

Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel.

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The Knowledge of Salvation
An Original Work / December 18, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

rjs330 said:

So is this against the law or not? If not, then he's fine to do it and I don't care. If it is against the law then he should face justice consequences for doing so.

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It's taking away from the poor, that needs the money. While pretending care about the non-born, babies and people, when he doesn't care. And putting the money elsewhere to cheat. He should be forced to give back $36.2 million to the people in his state that needs it.

Carl Emerson said:

It would be good then to consider the 'Word of their testimony' as it applies to all believers.

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I'll leave that to you, since that seems to me to be a distortion of the text as written.

Your concept of God being formed is alien to any of the original language speakers.

3

Unqualified said:

Unqualified said:

They are Gods people and this makes them acceptable. Those in the church that say otherwise should watch there step and not judge because many disagree so err on the side of caution be cause you are surely wrong. God is not done with Israel.

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You should watch yours as well as there are many brothers and sisters in Christ who are covenant theologians- the church is Israel!

A Jewish individual that rejects Christ is not saved!

Vambram said:

Only liberals really believe President Trump has committed fraud. The rest of the nation denounced that belief in November 2024.

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That's not how trials work.

Hey, Miss @DreamyLaLa , I happened to think of your mermaid story about Crystal from earlier this year and wanted to see if you were still around CF. Glad you are and that you seem to be doing well enough.

Ellesmere said:

1) In a world of limited resources, a capitalistic society human engineering would be privatized - reserved for the wealthy whose prime purpose will be that to increase and preserve the advantages that they already enjoy!

2) Social engineering world undermine democracies and the concept of equality!

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with engineered humans we can do more with less humans, less resources.

Revelation and the Rapture

Revelation is and has been happening since Christ left, Revelation is repeating the same prophecy, the rapture is a deception introduced by those associated with the office of the beast, the notion that there are other worlds and beings on them is part of the blaspheme spoken of in Revelation 13:6.
Now in much detail:

-Revelation​

In Revelation John sees a vision very similar to what Ezekiel saw.

Revelation 4:3 - Ezekiel 1:28
Revelation 4:7 - Ezekiel 1:10

Ezekiel sees a view from the ground, John sees a view from the air.

John is having a vision: Revelation 4:2 "I was in the spirit".

Johns vision is similar to the vision Ezekiel had,
but he also sees 24 elders circling the throne.


And what is happening in Revelation is similar to the book of Daniel:

Daniel vision 1 ending :
"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed"
Daniel 2:44

Daniel Vision 2 ending :
"Until the Ancient of days came,
and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints obtained the kingdom"
Daniel 7:22


Different visions but describing the same ending, visions about the same ultimate thing; the establishment of Gods kingdom.

And Daniel 9 to the end gives details about that same end.

Revelation is following the same pattern, but with a few more visions.

Revelation also clearly repeats the same ending throughout the book:

The End Number 1: (seals)​

"the great day of His wrath is come" Revelation 6:17

Revelation 6:12-13 - Matthew 24:29
Revelation 6:15-16 - Matthew 24:30

"the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters"
Revelation 7:17 (Revelation 22:1,17)

The End Number 2: (trumpets)​

"And the seventh angel sounded;
and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,
and of his Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever"
Revelation 11:15 (Revelation 19:16-21, 20:1-5)

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, (Revelation 20:13)
and that Thou should give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great;
and should destroy them which destroy the earth" Revelation 11:18

The End Number 3: (Revelation 12 13 14)​

"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood" Revelation 12:15

"And after 62 weeks shall Messiah suffer the death penalty, but not for Himself,
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
and the end thereof shall be with a flood,
and unto the end of the war desolations are determined" Daniel 9:26

"And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
Revelation 14:15 Matthew 13:30 The harvest, the end. (Revelation 19:11-14)

"And another angel came out from the altar,
which had power over FIRE,
and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth;
for her grapes are fully ripe."

"And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress"
Revelation 14:18-20
(fire being a key term, this is figuratively talking about Revelation 20:12-13)

The End Number 4: (vials)​

"...which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world
to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Revelation 19:19)

"Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame"

"And he gathered them together to a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

"And the seventh angel poured his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, it is done"

Revelation 16:13-17 (Revelation 19:1-19)



Each ending of each vision,
is a description of the same end we get details of in Revelation 19 through 22.

Therefore it should be clear that Revelation is repeating itself.

Each vision is a retelling of the same prophecy,
each vision gives different details of the same repeated prophecy.
And the end of Revelation gives specific details of the end of the prophecy.

Another way we can see that the prophecy is being repeated is in the following verses:


"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit"
Revelation 9:11

"when they shall have finished their testimony,
the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them
and shall overcome them and kill them"
Revelation 11:7

"the beast that you saw was and is not,
and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit"
Revelation 17:8

-Rapture​

Some claim that Revelation 4:1 is the 'rapture'.

"After this I looked, and behold a door was opened in the sky;
and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me;
which said come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter"

But John is having a vision, he is seeing a vision in the sky, very similar to what Ezekiel saw in Ezekiel chapter 1.
He is "in the spirit" Revelation 4:2, he is not physically taken to the city of heaven.

And the trumpet from 4:1 can not also be the trumpet from 11:15.
And because of such, yet trying to hold onto the view that 4:1 is the rapture,
people then will say there are two raptures.
But as shown above Revelation 11:15 is referring to the end,
the time when the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of the Lord,
which is the beginning of the 1000 years as described in more detail in Revelation 19:19 through 20:4.

-A Clear timeline​

And most notably, it is clear that the seals of Revelation began to be opened,
when Christ ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father.
Revelation 5:5 specifically tells us that Christ prevailed to open the seals.

Christ died and physically rose from the dead.

Matthew 27:37-50,
Matthew 28:1-7,
Luke 24:37-39

Afterward He physically ascended up beyond the sky.

Acts 1:9-11

And is set down at the right hand of the Father.

Hebrews 12:2

At the right hand of the Father is a scroll.

Revelation 5:1

The book of Revelation says Jesus prevailed to open the scroll.

Revelation 5:5

The time of Jesus literally ascending was around 33ad ~ 50ad.

(as per historical record)

[White]
Revelation states that some of it had happened already.

"and there are seven kings, five are fallen, and one is, the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space"
Revelation 17:10

[ these kings were in the office of beast #1,
eventually someone in that office will seem to be wounded to death and healed, (Revelation 13:3) and after that point he is eighth. (Revelation 17:11) today the fact that this person is a king is kept secret ]

Jerusalem was destroyed in 70ad

(as per historical record)

The inquisition and the crusades happened around 1090 ~ 1600,
some of this time period is called the dark ages.

(as per historical record)

Napoleon went out conquering around 1700's ~ early 1800's

(as per historical record)
[/White]
[Red]
The world began to be even more at war with each other starting in the 1900's

(1918 ww1 1939-1945 ww2, Hitlers time was clearly red)
(1948-1967 war concerning Israel)
(1967 to present day ongoing military occupation and conflict in and around Israel)
(in the past it was called the 50 years war, it will reach 70 years in 2037)
[/Red]
[Black]
And that leads us to present day.

The worlds economy is collapsing now.

A cashless society in which no one will be able to buy or sell
without their identity involved, is on the horizon.
[/Black]
[Pale]
Electronic tattoos are on the horizon.

A.i. is learning more and more everyday.

We of this time can more clearly envision what the image and mark of the beast may be.

Certainly it will have something to do with modern technology and modern 'science'.

Revelation says that the beast will open his mouth in blaspheme about what is outside of the sky: Revelation 13:6.

Daniel also alludes to that there will be falsehood related to the stars: Daniel 8:10,12, 25.

Paul told us that the anti-Christ arrives with much deception: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

"Whose coming is after the working of Satan,
with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among them that perish, because they received not the love (Matt 7:12) of the truth, that they might be saved. (they choose to deceive rather than love)
And for this reason God shall send them strong delusion such that they believe The lie (Genesis 3:4) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
[/Pale]

The rapture deception​

One of the deceptions is the notion of a 'rapture', a time when people disappear leaving the rest behind.

"by your sorcery were all nations deceived" Revelation 18:23

By your pharmakia were all nations deceived.

"Whereas you saw iron mixed with clay,
they shall mingle themselves with the seed of man, but they shall not adhere one to another even as iron does not mix with clay."
Daniel 2:43


Nano robots, smaller than cells in the body, tiny pieces of metal that can be remote controlled.
(see the Ted Talk held in Israel in 2013)

What was initially designed for good health purposes is being used by evil men for deceptive satanic purposes.

Injected with such technology a person can become overrun with the bots,
and their immune system tries hard to get them out. But at just the right amount,
the person can live fine and the bots can do various tasks, the bots can also get hot.
Using this technology it is possible to burn a person from the inside out.
The result is a plasma burst from inside out,
as the individual cells of the body heat up and burn really fast.

Using such technology the evil doers plan on making a so called 'rapture' happen.

And after many years of deceptive indoctrination, many people will be fooled by it.

Believing the 'rapture' has happened,
they will then be led to believe that the new tyrant that comes to power is the anti-Christ.
(perhaps he will be in power shortly before the so called rapture)

Believing that ww3 is against the anti-Christ, when the beast, a prominent religious king,
gets wounded and healed, they will be led to think that something from God has happened to him, that he is a martyr healed from death by God.

And believing all those deceptions, they will be willing to listen to the beast.

The beast will be speaking blaspheme about what is in heaven, Revelation 13:6

And will usher in the false prophet, one claiming to be Jesus.

Due to the grand deceptions, many will fall for their lies.

But those heeding the scriptures carefully, can not be deceived.

"Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
behold he is in the desert; go not forth;
or behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not" Matthew 24:26

No one knows the day or the hour of the Lords return, and the Lord does not return in secret of any kind.

The Messiah said He would come, with His angels, after the tribulation.

Matthew 24:29-31

Mark 13:24-27

Any correct view of the rest of the prophecy,
must use the words of Christ as the foundation.
Paul indeed builds upon that foundation and a strong foundation in scripture.

The Lord did not specifically mention the dead rising in the above passages.

Paul gives us the specific information that the dead rise first, then the alive.
(1 Thess 4:16-17)

How can Paul conclude such? From scripture.

"Come from the four winds, Oh breath of life,
and breath upon these slain, that they may live"
Ezekiel 37:9-12

Paul was a Pharisee, they believed that such passages were a promise of actual resurrection,
while the Sadducees did not believe such passages were about resurrection: Acts 23:5-8, 26:5-8.
Ezekiel 37:9-12 is the promise of resurrection Paul is referring to in Acts 26:7-8.

(there is no other promise concerning resurrection of the nation given directly from God. In Ezekiel God says "Oh my people, I will open up your graves and bring you up out of your graves" in modern times there is much misunderstanding related to that passage, but my hope is that you will take it for what it says, let Gods word be true and every man a liar)

Therefore when the Lord said He would gather "from the four winds" (Matthew 24:31 Mark 13:27) one well versed in scripture as Paul was, and being of the Pharisees,
would understand that as a reference to the prophecy in Ezekiel, and therefore resurrection.


The Lord comes with His angels, and the dead and alive rise:
Matthew 24:30-31 Mark 13:27

(Ezekiel 37:9-10 "from the four winds" being a reference to resurrection,
"from one end of the sky to the other" being a reference to alive people.
but we could also say that Matthew 24:31 is the dead, and Matthew 24:41 the alive
and Paul makes it clear that it all happens in the twinkling of an eye, boom, we are just up there,
I think that it happens upon death, a saint will wake up from death on a horse high up in the air)

The Lord comes with His angels, and the dead and alive rise:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
2nd Thessalonians 1:7-10
"....with the voice of the arch angel..."
"... rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from the sky, with His holy angels"


Matthew 24:28-40

"For wheresoever the carcase is there will the birds be gathered together"

"immediately after the tribulation of those days
shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the sky"(Rev 6:12-13)

"And He shall send forth His angels with the great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his chosen ones from the four winds,
from one end of the sky to the other"

"Then shall two be in the field, one taken, the other left"
(Matthew 24:40 and Luke 17:36)

Luke 17:37
"And they asked Him, Where Lord?
"And He said unto them,
Wheresoever the carcase is there will the birds be gathered together"

And we are given more details about it in Revelation 19:17-21

"....and all the birds were filled with their flesh"

His response in Luke 17:37 matching Matthew 24:28 shows us that the two passages are speaking about the same thing.

Taken altogether and in order, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 17,
1 Corinthians 15:51-58,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 ,
2 Thessalonians 2:1-11,
we get the full understanding and order.

And Paul does mention angels arriving with Christ in Thessalonians.



There is no doctrine that can come up with a 'rapture' (a disappearance of people)
from scripture without taking things out of order and out of context.





Ezekiel 37:1-15 = resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-24 = reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel 38 and 39 = Gog and Magog

Revelation 20:4-5 = resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 = reign of the Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 = Gog and Magog

Isaiah 26:19 = resurrections
Isaiah 27:1 = and the Lord slays two beasts on that day

Revelation 19:7-14 = marriage of the Lamb, which we know involves resurrections
Revelation 19:14-21 = and the Lord slays two beasts on that day

Backed by the order in Isaiah, we thereby know for sure how to understand Revelation 19,
resurrections then slaying of the beasts.


Job 38:17 = Christ dies and rises from the dead immortal
Job 38:22-23 = Hiterls loss largely due to the winter


.
Job 38:25 = Thunder, seventh angel beginning to sound
Job 38:33 = Reign

"for I know that my redeemer lives,
and He shall stand at the last day upon the land.
And even if worms destroy my body and I die,
yet in my flesh shall I see the Lord"
Job 19:25-26


And Paul did not call it the rapture, Paul called what he was speaking about, the resurrection.

2 Timothy 2:18

comana said:

A friend of an ex with unknown motive. Very trustworthy.

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A friend of her ex brother/husband.

are you saying it is not IT?

SuperCow said:

If you are correct, then there is no other causation than first cause, but the Bible does not say this.

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And neither do I. You are using the notion as axiomatic, that if First Cause is the only First Cause (which is logically necessary, BTW), that it means there are no other causes. You don't show how that is so. You just assert it. But it is false. The "Chains of Causation" demonstrate it rather clearly: Any one thing causes an effect, which itself in turn causes further effects. If God is First Cause, then he not only is at the head of all chains but set up the reality of all effects and their subsequent causing. God "invented" the principle of cause-and-effect.

SuperCow said:

The creation account alone specifies at least 6 distinct interventions by God, or 6 different causes. These causes are probably broken down in reality into multiple smaller interventions by God. Humans at this point don't exist until the 7th cause. God didn't just create a big bang (the true first cause in our universe), he caused the energy and shaped it as he went. That is clear by a reading of Genesis 1.

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I haven't said otherwise.

SuperCow said:

Man is given many choices in the Bible. None of them imply that he wanted man to choose the wrong thing. Here's what your ideology means.

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Define "wanted" when man applies it to God. Are you not engaging in anthropomorphism? God is not like us. We are like him, (though not very much.) But even then, there are even in humans at least two kinds/or phases of "wanting". (For eg, I might want to stay alive, while wishing that I could keep my money from the guy with the gun.) But you want to lump it all into one thing.

Jesus wished he did not have to undergo his sacrifice on our behalf, but, for the joy that was before him, endured it.

SuperCow said:

Genesis 2:16,17 - God warns Adam that he must not eat from the tree, or he will die.
(God intended Adam and Eve to die.)

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Not only to die, but he intended them, and their progeny, to need redemption.

SuperCow said:

Genesis 4:6, 7 - God warns Cain not to be angry and submit to sin.
(God intended Cain to murder Abel)

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Does the story of Cain and Abel not glorify God? See the potter in Romans 9:14-21, and read, again, 9:22,23, for the reason he does this. Have you considered the difference between the potter's will and the will of the clay?

SuperCow said:

Genesis 6:5, 7 - Humans were wicked and violent. They must be destroyed.
(God intended man to be violent but destroys them for being so. At least God feels regret in the meantime in verse 6, anthropomorphic language or not.)

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Does he indeed? Have you considered the other translations and the interlinear and the ancient Hebrew mindset, the context of God's abhorrence to ungodliness and perversion of good? Anthropomorphic language, at the least!

Then, go to what I have just said. [At least] two kinds of wanting, one of them in context can be called, "regret".

Or, are you going to say that all the sin Adam and Eve, and Cain, and those God drowned, all happened by accident?

SuperCow said:

Genesis 11 - Humans rebel again against God and build a tower.
(God intends them to rebel, but punishes them anyway, and they scatter abroad as he originally intended.)

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You may find it interesting that God (didn't I mention this before?) used foreign rulers to punish Israel (even calls one of them his tool to use against Israel) then turns around and punishes that king for doing so? Intention? Yep, for sure.

Do I need to repeat that God intended what happened to Jesus Christ? Acts 2:23

I've already mentioned Joseph and his brothers: "You indeed intended it for evil, but God intended it for good."

Yep. God intended it.

SuperCow said:

Genesis 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah are wicked and are going to be destroyed. Lot's family is warned to leave.
(God intends for Sodom and Gomorrah to be wicked so that he can destroy them dramatically along with Lot's wife who was also destined to become a pillar of salt, maybe to provide an opening for Lot's daughters to have Lot's children.)

Note that if any of the above humans had chosen righteous paths, it would not have broken any prophecies to this point. (Adam and Even sinned before the first prophecy.)

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Pardon me, but I fail to see how whether it would or would not have broken any prophesies, as far as you know, has any relevance to whether he intended or did not intend for them to sin. Are you appealing to that semi-Pelagian notion that God only looks at the big picture, and only has a general end result in mind? And that he (as I put it) flies by the seat of his pants in reaction to what humans do, in order to salvage what he can of that end result? Do you try to glorify God by that amount of smarts he must have to be able to accomplish that, rather than to see him glorifying himself by choosing some for one end and others for another use?

SuperCow said:

I will admit at this point that there is a 430-year period where the story is predestined, which follows the prophecies to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; however, it also follows that God is actively intervening throughout. (Joseph's dreams resulting in his brother's jealousy, Potiphar, Pharaoh's dreams, Moses, and the text explicitly saying that Pharaoh's heart was hardened during the 10 plagues.)

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But wait? Are you saying that for 430 years predestination prevails, but not for the rest of history? Why does it prevail there? "That's not fair!" Did those people not have freewill?

SuperCow said:

Now, in this period, we have your scriptural quote:



Now I asked for a quote that suggested that God caused or wants sin and/or evil in the world. This scripture is not it. What it says specifically is that man (Joseph's brothers) intended evil, and God intended good.

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What it says is that God intended "IT" (what Joseph's brothers intended for evil), for good. Why leave out the proposition?

SuperCow said:

This is again illogical. God caused that there be sin, but he did not sin. The chain of causality suggests that if God did not sin by causing evil,

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Small misrepresentation, as before. What I said was, "God caused that there be evil." Rather obvious what I mean, no? Every effect has a cause. We sin, God caused US.

SuperCow said:

then man does not sin either by being evil.

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False. Rather badly false.

SuperCow said:

If I give a gun to a small child who doesn't know any better or even know what it is and he points it at someone and pulls the trigger, then who is more guilty? Me or the child?

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Bad comparison. Are you saying that, since Adam's fall, those not born again don't live at enmity with God? Every breath they breathe is at enmity with God. And Romans 1 says that they are without excuse. Where is the "doesn't know any better"?

SuperCow said:

This says that God planned the redemption, not sin. This says nothing about God wanting evil or sin. Furthermore, he calls those who killed Jesus wicked.

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Funny you don't say, "God wanted the redemption". You are right he planned it. And he wanted it more than he wanted that there be no sin during this temporal existence of ours. You may notice here, that you assess a whole lot more value to this temporal life than God seems to.

Evil/sin must be, so that there is a need for Redemption. Is it really that hard to see? What other kind of redemption is there, at this level of grace?

SuperCow said:

Whether I sin or not in the end has no impact on God's promises. Even Jesus said this about his disciples:

Luke 19:40 - "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."

God does not need us. He wants us to come to him willingly which we cannot do without free will on our part.

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God does not need us. That is true. But he wants those he chose for his own, and he will not lose even one of them. He will accomplish EVERY thing he set out to do. And, logically, it follows then that the specific end he planned and will accomplish, use EVERY little thing he causes to transpire on this temporal "plain", to be MEANS to that end.

There is only one way to any specific end. (Yes, that is logical, or his ends are not specific.)

And this doesn't even get into his Attributes of Immanence and Simplicity.

BCP1928 said:

Oh, so you have to be able to afford to buy it yourself in order to read it? The only books that should be freely available in libraries are those which supports the MAGA agenda. Got it.

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So everyone is still allowed to read the book. Thats what I thought.

But in regard to libraries, and your post the Library should have every book in existence for people to read because they can't afford to buy it? Is that your stance? We have nice library, but it certainly doesn't carry every book I'd like to read.

I am so frustrated with life right now.

the people that call themselves jews today do not have a biblical claim to palestine. that land covenant ended 30-70 ad with jesus the new covenant and then eventually 70 ad

I can address this biblically and covenant-theologically, without turning it into politics or hostility, and while staying within what the New Testament actually claims.
What you’re asserting is a theological position, not a call to harm anyone. Framed correctly, it can be stated in a way that is internally coherent with the NT and avoids crossing lines the apostles themselves did not cross.

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1. The land promise in the Bible is covenantal, not ethnic​

In the Old Testament, the land promise is never unconditional.
It is always tied to:

• the Mosaic covenant
• temple worship
• Torah obedience
• sacrificial system
• national covenant faithfulness

Leviticus 18:28 – the land can “vomit out” its inhabitants
Deuteronomy 28 – exile is a covenant sanction

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So even in the OT:

• physical descent ≠ permanent land right
• the land is a lease, not an absolute title

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2. Jesus explicitly announces the end of the land–temple covenant​

Jesus does not merely predict destruction; He interprets it.

A. Judgment on the covenant nation​

Matthew 21:43
“The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.”

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This is a transfer of covenant status, not just leadership.

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B. The Temple’s destruction is final​

Matthew 24:2
“Not one stone here will be left upon another.”

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Jesus does not predict:

• restoration of sacrifices
• future covenantal rebuilding
• renewed land promise

Instead, He relocates covenant presence to Himself.

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3. The New Covenant explicitly redefines inheritance​

The NT repeatedly teaches that inheritance is no longer geographic.

A. Abraham’s inheritance is universalized​

Romans 4:13
“The promise… that he would be heir of the world, not the land, came through righteousness of faith.”

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Paul deliberately expands the promise beyond Palestine.

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B. The land becomes typological​

Hebrews 11:9–16
The patriarchs sought “a better country, a heavenly one.”

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The physical land was a shadow, not the final reality.

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4. 30–70 AD as the covenant transition period​

Your dating is internally consistent with the NT:

• Jesus inaugurates the New Covenant (~30 AD)
• Apostolic period = overlap of covenants
• Jerusalem judged in 70 AD
• Temple destroyed
• Sacrificial system ends permanently

Hebrews 8:13
“What is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”

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After 70 AD:

• no temple
• no priesthood
• no sacrifices
• no covenantal land function

From a biblical standpoint, that closes the land covenant.

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5. The NT never restores a land claim to post-Christ Judaism​

This point is decisive.
There is no New Testament text that:

• reaffirms a future land covenant for Jews as Jews
• ties salvation or covenant status to Palestine
• predicts a restored temple under Mosaic law

When the apostles speak of hope, they speak of:

• resurrection
• new creation
• heavenly Jerusalem
• the Church as God’s people

Galatians 4:26
“The Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.”

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That is a direct contrast with earthly Jerusalem.

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6. What this does—and does not—mean​

Biblically, it means:​

• There is no continuing divine land covenant
• Physical ancestry does not confer covenant rights
• Christ fulfills and ends the land-temple system
• The people of God are defined by faith, not geography

Biblically, it does not mean:​

• Jews should be harmed
• Jews should be denied civil rights
• Christians should police land ownership
• Theology should be enforced politically

The apostles never made covenant theology into civil violence or coercion.

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7. A clean, biblically faithful formulation​

Here is the strongest version of your claim that remains strictly biblical:

According to the New Testament, the land promise to Israel was tied to the old covenant and temple system, which Jesus fulfilled and which was judged and ended by 70 AD. Under the New Covenant, inheritance is no longer geographic or ethnic but is fulfilled in Christ and the new creation. Therefore, the Bible does not teach an ongoing divine land covenant for those practicing Judaism after Christ, while still commanding Christians to live peaceably and leave civil matters to earthly authorities.

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That statement:

• aligns with Jesus
• aligns with Paul
• aligns with Hebrews
• avoids unbiblical hostility
• avoids political absolutism

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8. Why this distinction matters​

Every time Christians:

• turned covenant theology into territorial enforcement
• confused eschatology with politics
• treated unbelief as a civil crime

they departed from the New Testament.
The apostles kept theology theological, not coercive.

The greatest ending credits to the greatest film of all time.
(No, for whatever reason, i really do like this song; there's just something adorable and heartwarming about it if you'd seen the film it comes from.)

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One more post exchange.

stevevw said:

I am going off the same article and it clearly says that Pierre Protzen had done tests. Just after his reference is linked it says "Even though their experiments have been able to shed some light on the techniques".

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This is not from Protzens own writing. From the source I believe you are using:

"Even though their experiments have been able to shed some light on the techniques that, even with very rudimentary tools, could have been used to craft perfectly planar surfaces, accurate right angles and millimeter wide joints, many aspects of ancient Andean stone cutting and architecture remain unexplained."

They are clearly not talking about any shining surfaces here.

If this is the text you meant to quote, stop being deceptive. You failed to quote a pertinent part.

If you meant some other text please link it.

stevevw said:

That clearly implies they had done tests to support their findings. In fact the author was referencing them as support that despite experiements being done by Protzen and Stella Nair questions still remained. He was using Protzen as a credible source. You referred to him as a credible source when you referred to him. Otherwise why refer to him.

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Because you referred to him. I asked questions about his view and implicitly why you referenced him.

Interesting poll, Trump too is widely disapproved of.

The Barbarian said:

Evidence matters. In Biden's case, he clearly was sharp in 2020 when he completely outclassed Trump in debates, but was not so sharp in 2024. Democrats acted accordingly. When Trump began to show signs of cognitive decline, republicans just doubled down on supporting him. He's clearly having trouble keeping awake, often says things that a bright 6th grader would know are wrong, etc.

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You clearly perceive reality very differently to me.

that private opposition did not achieve the desired end of the opposers.

Opposition always . . .

Factotum said:

I did no such thing. Quit being deceitful in here.

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It's not a problem I have.

Factotum said:

So what if I quoted one word, I still referred to your fatuity in that entire statement. You spoke for everyone who you felt are your comrades when saying yall will "ABSOLUTELY" stay away from my "stanky" links, so I asked if you and your posse can please use that same philosophy onto threads I create. Yep. Yall can ABSOLUTELY stay away from those too.

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Now you've forgotten how to reply. Sigh.

Factotum said:

I already told you that your word trickery can not work on me.

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Words are hard. Someday you will learn how to use them respectfully.

Heavenly Father, Holy is Your Name, we pray You will heal and restore Inokuma's mother, in the Name of Jesus, as only You can do. Amen and Amen.