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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

‘An encounter with Jesus’: Artist behind living wall memorial for unborn shares mission

Amid the sounds of Arkansas’ waterfalls, women who have had abortions will someday be able to find healing at a “living wall” memorial covered in flora and fauna, where the names of unborn children will be inscribed on the hexagonal stone floor thanks to local artist Lakey Goff, who submitted the living wall design, which was selected for Arkansas’ monument for the unborn.

The memorial will be on state property, but funding must come from the people. Now Goff and other Arkansians are fundraising for the living wall.

On Saturday morning, participants gathered at sunrise at Two Rivers Park in Little Rock to kick off the first annual Living Wall 5K — a race to fundraise for the memorial.

Continued below.

Pray Jesus Christ heals & comforts & provides for all those affected by the fires at an apartment complex area in Hong Kong

Pray Jesus Christ heals & comforts & provides for all those affected by the fires at an apartment complex area in Hong Kong:

Caritas Ukraine leads efforts to reintegrate children taken by Russia in war

On Friday at the Vatican, Pope Leo XIV met with U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minnesota, and a delegation of Ukrainian mothers, wives, and teenagers forcibly taken to Russia during the war. The group discussed the ongoing efforts being made to secure the return of civilians to Ukraine, particularly children.

At the forefront of the work of repatriation and recovery of Ukrainian children swept up in the country’s war with Russia is Caritas Ukraine, which has prioritized the reintegration of these children, according to Liliia Chulitska, an information expert with Caritas Ukraine.

Caritas Ukraine is made up of cooperating organizations and operates as part of the international network Caritas Internationalis, the social ministry of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. It has been implementing humanitarian, social, and recovery programs throughout Ukraine for over 30 years, with a primary focus on humanitarian assistance in more than 15 regions of Ukraine.

Chulitska explained that when it comes to the repatriation of Ukrainian children, Caritas Ukraine cooperates with Ukraine’s Ombudsman’s Office once children are returned to Ukraine and, as a service provider, assesses the children’s needs and provides direct assistance.

Continued below.

“The Largest Funder of Al-Shabaab Is the Minnesota Taxpayer”How some of the state’s welfare funds ended up in the hands of a terror group

Don't know much about Ryan Thorpe but Christopher Rufo is quite the pot-stirrer. This is not to say anything concerning the legitimacy of this particular story, but there has been an uptick in stories concerning the alleged perfidy of Somalians. Some of the sources cited in the article are from FrontPageMag, Daniel Greenfield (reporter for FrontPageMag), and other associates of David Horowitz.

The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it. By extension, that means recognizing the problem’s true source. So far, Minnesota’s governing class and its media establishment have failed to take that basic step. Minnesotans will have to confront the uncomfortable but unavoidable reality: members of the Somali community have played a central role in the massive fraud now engulfing the North Star State.​

There does seem to be fraud associated with some providers and oversight is certainly needed, but this seems like a greater campaign to defame the Somali immigrant community.
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Slovenia rejects euthanasia law in referendum, freezes issue for at least a year

Slovenian voters have rejected a proposed euthanasia law in a Nov. 23 referendum, blocking legislation that would have allowed terminally ill patients to end their lives. The bill, passed by the Slovenian Parliament four months earlier, was opposed by 53.43% of voters, preventing it from taking effect.

Under Slovenian law, Sunday’s vote freezes the matter for at least 12 months, after which Parliament may consider a new version of the bill.

A year earlier, a nonbinding referendum indicated public openness to regulated euthanasia, prompting the governing coalition to draft and pass the legislation in July 2025. But opposition quickly mobilized. The Slovenian Democratic Party (SDS) and other conservative groups denounced the proposal as undermining human dignity and devaluing the lives of the most vulnerable.

The Slovenian Bishops’ Conference also publicly opposed the legislation. Citing Article 17 of the Slovenian Constitution — which states that “human life is inviolable” — the bishops urged lawmakers to strengthen systemic medical, human, and spiritual support for those in need. They called for greater investment in palliative care and related services rather than pursuing policies that permit the direct termination of life.

Continued below.

Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Interesting. Can you show where in scripture does it teach that Christ taught those in prison during His three days in the tomb the gospel?
"18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." 1 Peter 3:18-20 NIV

"18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah," 1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV

"18 Christ’s Victory and Descent to the Netherworld, and Christian Baptism.[a] For Christ also suffered for our sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but raised to life in the spirit.

19 In the spirit[b] also he went to preach to the spirits in prison, 20 those who had refused to obey long ago while God waited patiently in the days of Noah during the building of the ark." 1 Peter 3:18-20 NCB
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The USCCB Views the Church Through a Political Lens, Leaves Out Christ

A GREAT POLITICAL ANALYSIS OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POPE LEO AND THE USCCB AND THAT’S THE PROBLEM, FOR SO MANY CATHOLICS, BISHOPS, CLERGY, RELIGIOUS AND LAITY, THE CHURCH IS VIEWED THROUGH A POLITICAL LENSE AND LEAVES CHRIST AND HIS SALVATION OUT OF THE DISCUSSION!​




Don’t get me wrong, the article I link by pressing its title is a great political analysis. But please, tell me where you read anything about the Most Holy Trinity and the exclusive way God redeems the world through Jesus Christ. Where is there anything about Mariology, Sacraments, Morality, Spirituality, devotions and the like?

This is linked from Rorate Caeli:

Leo and the American Bishops - the USCCB Election and Fake News Pushed by American Liberals


Continued below.

Anyone up for a chat thread?

Has anybody ever seen "Conflict Resolution Training" work? If you have, what does it acheive?

Someone is suggesting it at the charity I work for. We provide drop-in services for addicts in recovery, and I am not convinced it will help. I am convinced that what we do is very positive work, but I am not sure that something that sounds so much like ordinay "office management" will suffice. The people who do "drop in" are frequently very nervous and confused, the majority have inadequate support for mental health difficulties, and at first they are also often living in unsuitable circumstances. We already strive for remaining calm, positive and non-judgemental.

Since we were recently discussing local parish communities, and ways to nurture better community spirit in church, I thought I would mention the subject in here. :heart:
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Baseball Great Darryl Strawberry: God ‘Set Me Free’ With Pardon From Trump

During a sermon on Sunday (Nov. 23), former New York Mets star Darryl Strawberry thanked President Trump for pardoning his crimes and thanked God for forgiving his sins. Strawberry, an eight-time All-Star who has overcome legal and substance-abuse problems, preached for 45 minutes at Sheridan Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

The former outfielder, now 63, referenced the presidential pardon he received on Nov. 6. “God just completely set me free when he gave me a pardon from President Donald J. Trump,” Strawberry told congregants. “Other presidents had opportunities, but they didn’t do it.”

In 1995, Strawberry pleaded guilty to tax evasion, and in 1999, he pleaded no contest to cocaine possession and solicitation of a prostitute. After numerous parole violations, he served 11 months in a Florida prison from 2002 to 2003. Since then, Strawberry has recovered from addiction and traveled extensively to talk about his Christian faith.

Darryl Strawberry: From ‘Pit’ to Pulpit


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The Blaze’s Pipe-Bomb Bombshell Appears to Bomb; The right-wing outlet claimed to solve the Jan. 6th pipe-bomb mystery

How an innocent woman's name was tied to the Jan. 6 pipe bombs

Multiple sources said that a unit overseen by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard drafted a memo identifying the woman and describing allegations that she had placed the explosive devices outside Democratic and Republican party offices. The memo was written after ODNI was made aware of allegations from an outside source, an ODNI spokesperson said.

ODNI officials said the agency received a tip from a person affiliated with a media organization [could it be... the Blaze?] about potential criminal wrongdoing by an individual believed to be working at an intelligence agency and set about documenting it in a memo.

[The unfinished memo was sent to her place of employment and circulated within the Trump Administration. She was briefly placed on leave.]

ODNI oversees the nation's foreign intelligence gathering and has limited domestic investigative authorities.

A short time after the unfinished memo began to circulate, the conservative news outlet, Blaze News, published details similar to those in the draft, including the woman's full name.

Gabbard, the top ODNI official, has since distanced herself from the memo, telling senior officials that the information about the woman spread without her knowledge while Gabbard was traveling abroad, several sources said.
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UFC Star Conor McGregor Claims He Met Jesus During Psychedelic Medical Treatment

Following a brief social media hiatus, Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) superstar Conor McGregor (37) posted that he met Jesus while undergoing ibogaine treatment.

According to the Addiction Center, ibogaine is “a plant-derived compound used for its psychoactive effects. It is currently being studied for its potential in treating substance use disorders.”

“Ibogaine causes hallucinations and vivid dreams,” says the center. “It may have a positive effect on substance cravings by acting on several receptors in the brain.”

Throughout his fighting career, McGregor, who is nicknamed “Notorious,” has been known as one of the most arrogant, brash, charismatic, passionate, trash-talking fighters the sport has ever experienced.

Continued below.

Why religion cannot make its mind up about nudity

It's not, IMO, that they knew that nakedness was wrong; it's that, with their loss of innocence they thought it was wrong. They thought they were wrong, in their essence, as God made them. They now knew something foreign: they knew shame. And we've never gotten over this and will not get over it in this fallen world; shame of self is part of the exile from God that we all experience in this world. JMO, tho.
Do you feel shame for doing good or for doing evil ? GOD seems to have agreed with their assessment and sacrificed animals to use the skins to more adequately cover them. If you think something is wrong it usually is. There could be a situation you are involved in that you do something that at the time you didn’t know was wrong but later discovered is wrong. It’s new to you but you still know it’s wrong none the less. Rather than attempt to psychoanalyze Adam and Eve just read the scripture and believe what it says. By making this more complex than what it is hinders the understanding of the truth.
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Elon Musk Has a ‘Thank You’ Note For Donald Trump As Feud Ends

If I understand correctly, historically, Republicans have usually been quite wealthy, and the Democratic voters have been on the working class/not as wealthy? How have times changed...
It's policies, platform and appeal have fluctuated widely during its 75 years of existence.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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The Biblical Basis of 10 Catholic Distinctives

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with @Apple Sky
Not sure. If the topic were moon landings, the nature of the Antarctic or the shape of the earth, my views would not resemble Apple Sky's. I have no idea what she believes about baptism.
It says no such thing regarding Lydia's household.
I won't draw this out, just say that, regarding Lydia's household, it doesn't say that they were believers, or that they were not.

You completely avoided the point about children of believing spouses being holy.
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Pentagon investigating Sen. Mark Kelly over 'refuse illegal orders' video

Probably more likely that Kelly and the others made their statement in preparation for what they think is coming, which is future military operations--perhaps in Venezuela. Those Democrats made their statement about not having to follow "illegal orders". Then what do you think these same Democrats would once military operations got started? They'd be standing on the House and Senate floors crowing about how Trump is conducting an "illegal operation" using the military. They would keep saying things like that to go along with their previous assertion about how military members don't have obey illegal orders, thus encouraging mutiny within our own military. I don't doubt this is exactly what they want. It's not like they haven't stooped to such low levels before.
What would be the rationale for conducting war with Venezuela that is covered by any current Congressional resolution?

And if it's not, why shouldn't Congresspeople call that an illegal operation?
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Texas A&M fires lecturer, administrators over classroom gender discussion caught on video

It's not, but I had a professor randomly mention politics during theology courses.

Or maybe it's relevant today in this modern world? That can also be true.

Yes and no.
What is your basis for saying that gender identity is not a genre of children's literature?
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Elijah Comes First

That is an area still open for debate as far as I know since I haven't found any dogmatic definition that excludes the possibility of the Blessed Mary never dying. As for myself, "I do not know", is my reply. I await the deliberations of theologians and bishops to make a definitive declaration if and when such is deemed as necessary.

Your approach is always wise.

To be clear, I don’t believe she ever died in a spiritual sense of the word, but rather, like all the saints, reposed in the Lord and was alive in Christ from the moment she reposed, even before her body was taken up into heaven.

Specifically, the problem with the denial of the dormition aspect of the Assumption is that at Chalcedon the Patriarch of Jerusalem informed the Emperor, who desired to venerate the relics of the Theotokos, that on the occasion of her death she was attended by all the Apostles, but two weeks later St. Thomas desired her tomb to be opened, and it was found to be empty.

A more detailed account in the Orthodox synaxarium states that the tomb was opened for the benefit of St. Thomas, who, traveling from the East (recall, he founded in the Church in India, and would later receive the crown of martyrdom there in 53 AD, when an angry maharaja threw a javelin at him; the site of his martyrdom is now a Roman Catholic Church and is a candidate for being the oldest church built on the site of a martyrdom in continual use), that St. Thomas did not arrive in time to see the Theotokos repose, and overwhelmed with grief, asked for her tomb to be opened, which the other Apostles agreed to, and they collectively were greatly surprised (that is to say, shocked, awed and delighted) to find the tomb was empty, and it was thus revealed that the Theotokos had been assumed just like St. Moses and St. Elijah were.

Thus we benefit from saying she reposed, both for historical reasons, and also because it proves the means of our own salvation, in that it establishes the promise of Christ to resurrect us is not in vain, for clearly, he has already done this in the case of the Theotokos, having resurrected and taken her up to Heaven, as happened with himself, and also it establishes that Christ was fully human, because if his mother did not repose before being assumed, this could fuel the deadly fires of docetism, the denial of the full humanity of Christ. It must be asserted beyond any doubt that Christ is consubstantial with us, according to the theology of the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople and Ephesus, in a state of hypostatic union, as taught by St. Cyril (and thus believed by both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox as well as other Chalcedonians) fully human and fully divine, without change, confusion, separation or division between His humanity and divinity.

Now, I am fairly certain, on reflection, this is the Roman Catholic teaching, but would request the help of any of my pious Roman Catholic friends such as @Michie @RileyG @Valletta @concretecamper and @chevyontheriver in verifying this, to make sure I’m not in error.

What I did, since I’m not familiar with the Catechism of the Catholic Church or how it is structured, was look to the liturgy, which presumably is doctrinally authoritative, and found from the current version of the Liturgy of the Hours, at the Office of Readings (formerly known as Matins), the Second Reading on the feast of the Assumption:

“Thus Saint John Damascene, preeminent as the great preacher of this truth of tradition, speaks with powerful eloquence when he relates the bodily assumption of the loving Mother of God to her other gifts and privileges: “It was necessary that she who had preserved her virginity inviolate in childbirth should also have her body kept free from all corruption after death. It was necessary that she who had carried the Creator as a child on her breast should dwell in the tabernacles of God. It was necessary that the bride espoused by the Father should make her home in the bridal chambers of heaven. It was necessary that she, who had gazed on her crucified Son and been pierced in the heart by the sword of sorrow which she had escaped in giving him birth, should contemplate him seated with the Father. It was necessary that the Mother of God should share the possessions of her Son, and be venerated by every creature as the Mother and handmaid of God.”

If I’m reading the dogmatic definition of Pope Piux XII correctly, from the second reading of the Office of Readings at the Liturgy of the Hours, it appears that he refers to the body of the Theotokos being taken up into heaven after death:

At Matins for this feast, in the old Divine Office (according to the old Tridentine and Dominican uses), historically the Fourth through Sixth Readings, quoted the aforementioned homily of St. John of Damascus directly:

“Eve, who had said yea to the proposals of the serpent, was condemned to the pains of travail and the punishment of death, and found her place in the bowels of the Netherworld. But this truly blessed being who had inclined her ears to the word of God, whose womb had been filled by the action of the Holy Ghost, who, as soon as she heard the spiritual salutation of the archangel, had conceived the Son of God without any sexual pleasure or carnal knowledge by a man, who had brought forth her Offspring without any the least pang, who had hallowed herself altogether for the service of God how was death ever to feed upon her? how was the grave ever to eat her up? how was corruption to break into that body into which Life had been welcomed? For her there was a straight, smooth, and easy way to heaven. For if Christ, Who is the Life and the Truth, hath said Where I am, there shall also My servant be how much more shall not rather His mother be with Him?”

On a more poetic and beautiful note, the same Assumptions Matins traditionally featured this lovely hymn:

Arise! the cold blasts from earth have receded,
And in the field are lovely flowers smiling,
For thee, O gracious Mother, bearer of Life,
Arise, O Mary!

Beautiful Lily blooming 'mid the brambles,
Death's haughty author thou alone didst conquer,
Plucking life-giving tree of fruits the fathers
By sin did not taste.

Ark of sweet wood not destined for ruin,
Holding the manna, whence springeth forth the power
Summoning forth the bones again arisen
From depths of the tomb.

Thou handmaid, faithful to the Ruler of hearts,
Thy flesh cruel decay could never touch,
Thy soul of Spirit partaking without end,
Hath winged to the stars.

Leaning on thy beloved, arise, go heav'nward!
Accept the crown with stars for thee bedecked,
List to the hymn thy children sing on this day,
Calling thee blessed.

Praise to the Triune Godhead everlasting,
Who hath caused thee, O Virgin, to be crowned,
And providently willed our Queen thou shouldst be
Also our Mother.
Amen.



I would expect to find this hymn in the Orthodox Western Rite liturgy; I shall take a look. It is such a pity so few Roman Catholics are able to easily access the Liturgy of the Hours or older forms of the Divine Office outside of monasteries and some cathedrals. For the most part, priests, friars and tertiaries of religious orders, who are required to pray the Liturgy of the Hours daily, do so privately. This has also become de rigeur in the Maronite Rite, where the Divine Office, which is in a book called the Shimo, meaning “Simple” became known as the Fard (meaning “obligation”).

The Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox sing the following hymn at Vespers on the Feast of the Dormition (Assumption), which like in the Latin Rite, is on August 15th*. The version, to be of particular relevance to my Roman Catholic friends, I took from a Byzantine Catholic version of the Menaion**, the book containing the propers for the Divine Office for all fixed feasts, from the Metropolitan Cantor Institute (which serves the Ruthenian Greek Catholic churches): Menaion - August 15 (MCI)
The holy apostles were taken up from every corner of the world * and carried upon clouds by the command of God. * They gathered around your pure body, O Source of Life, * and kissed it with reverence. * As for the most sublime powers of heaven, * they came with their own leader * to escort and to pay their last respects to the most honorable body * that had contained Life itself. * Filled with awe, they marched together with the apostles in silent majesty, * professing to the princes of heaven in a hushed voice: * Lift up your gates and receive, with becoming majesty, * the Mother of the Light that never fades, * because, through her, salvation was made possible for our human race. * She is the One upon whom no one may gaze, * and to whom no one is able to render sufficient glory; * for the special honor that made her sublime is beyond understanding. * Therefore, O most pure Theotokos, * forever alive with your Son, the Source of Life, * do not cease to intercede with Him * that he may guard and save your people from every trouble; * for you are our intercessor. * To you we sing a hymn of glory * with loud and joyful voices, now and forever.

* in antiquity however, it was historicallly celebrated in January in Egypt and in the Gallican Rite, which was once the main liturgy in France, also a Latin liturgy, but very different from the Roman Rite, most closely related to the Mozarabic RIte, still celebrated in the cathedral of Toledo and a monastery, and the Ambrosian Rite which is used by over a million Catholics in the DIocese of Milan, which is celebrated with great reverence, the main difference being that over the years, the Ambrosian Rite wound up always using the Roman Canon as its Anaphora (although with the post-1969 reforms, it has six Eucharistic Prayers; I have not examined them but my understanding is that one of them is the Roman Canon, and three correspond to Eucharistic Prayers II-IV, and presumably the other two are based on the highly variable traditional Gallican and Mozarabic Eucharistic prayer. Now that I have good access to Italian language resources I should seek to find this out.
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