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Fervent · 2025-11-20T20:29:09-0600

Mark Quayle said:
Mark Quayle said:
Can you demonstrate that anything can happen besides what does happen? Can you demonstrate the actual possibility of other options? Or is that only in our thinking? When God demands that we choose, do we not always only choose the one option? Was God not aware of those decisions before creating, but went ahead and created anyway? Well, then! He INTENDED it to be decided the way it was

CORRECT enough! That's why I asked it. Can you do it? Can you prove that "apparent" free will choices (or any other choice) could have gone a different way? You will say, "of course!", but you can't do it. You will provide some statement you consider axiomatic, but is not, like, "God would not demand what you cannot obey".

Mark Quayle said:
Otherwise, you need to demonstrate that {actual "chance" can determine outcomes}. The notion is by definition self-contradictory. But your whole construction depends on it.

You are defining justice according to the creature's ability to do what he is commanded to do. Sorry, but the command does not imply the ability to obey— it only implies the responsibility to obey. God is not unjust to create beings who will pay for their rebellion, as intended. He is making use of them for his Glory, to demonstrate his love and mercy to the objects of his mercy—us.

Can you demonstrate that actual "chance" can determine outcomes? Or do you first need me to demonstrate how your notion of free will implies chance determining outcomes?

You seem to completely miss his objection, which is that you are engaged in a special pleading argument by demanding your opponent meet a standard you yourself cannot.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-20T20:25:22-0600

A Devil's Advocate said:
The goal of Christianity is to know God. This is something you could spend ten lifetimes in pursuit of and still have barely scratched the surface of everything there is to know about God.

It amazes me the amount of wasted time and energy people put towards this goal of sinning less and ultimately, not sinning at all. Does anyone read the bible for what it actually says, or does everyone read it for what they've been told it says?

If I was to ask you; do you identify as your sinful nature, or do you identify as the good you want to do but struggle with a sinful nature, which would best describe you? Most likely it will be the later of the two. You are the good you want to do but struggle with a sinful nature. Which would align you with what Paul talked about in Rom 7:14-20.
Now say by the power of grey skull, I snap my fingers and suddenly you no longer have a sinful nature. Will you continue to do the evil you do not want to do, or will you only do the good you so desire to do? Obviously, the good you desire to do is all that you are going to do.
Okay then, in your pursuit to stop sinning, what is it you are trying so hard to improve on? The good you already desire to do, or the sinful nature?

The good you desire to do clearly needs no improvement since it already desires to do good. The sinful nature, on the other hand, cannot be improved on. Scripture is vividly clear on this. If it could be improved on, then Paul would not have wrote what he wrote in Rom 7, and the Gospel wouldn't have been necessary.

Before you try and tell me Paul is speaking of before he was saved... this is the real world, not some fantasy. At what point, before you were saved, did you ever struggle between doing the good that God desires you to do and doing evil? The truth is you didn't. You simply did whatever felt good to you in the moment.

Before salvation we are spiritually dead, separated from God. Without spiritual life, there is no desire to do the will of God. Without spiritual life, the desires of the flesh are what rules us. We have no desire, what so ever, to do the will of God. After receiving new life (spiritual life), that is when we are suddenly presented with a dilemma. To now do the will of God.
This new dilemma is the very struggle Paul talks about. And the reason Paul talks about it is to make it clear to his readers that the very idea that we can stop sinning is ridiculous. He states very clearly that sin resides in the flesh. Unless you live in the fantasy world I mentioned earlier, until the day you die, you will remain in the flesh. The flesh is corrupt as a result of sin. And until our corrupted flesh is destroyed, and we are given new non corrupted bodies, this struggle will remain.

The time and energy put towards the goal of sinning less and ultimately not sinning at all, is misplaced, misleading, and ultimately leads us back into the bondage of sin. That time and energy should be put towards getting to know more of God. The logic is simple, if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, you wont be doing what you aren't to be doing. The more of God you know, the more of God is revealed through you, and naturally, the less you will sin. No effort, no fuss, no worries.

On the contrary, we should aim to confront the sinful passions and tame them for the glory of God. Christ commanded us to be perfect even as the Father is perfect (Christ is also perfect, but put on our human nature in order to perfect and glorify it on the Cross, thus he was, in this case as with Baptism, the first to do that which He commanded us to continue doing, that is, to be baptized by water and spirit and thus participate in His Baptism in the Jordan, and to put to death our mortal nature, corrupted by the passions so as to put on incorruption.

This is why St. Paul stresses the importance of asceticism, likening the way to running a race. Also I would note that this is not works righteousness; without the grace of the Holy Spirit acquired through faith, this process of Theosis , or as John Wesley translated it, entire sanctification, becomes impossible.

But since St. Athanasius not only led the Nicene Council which produced the first version of our Creed and rejected the heresy of Arius, but also compiled our 27 book New Testament canon, we ought to pay attention when he writes that God became man so that man could become god, that is to say, that we might by grace become what Christ is by nature.

This is not to say all will conquer sin in this life, but some have, and in the case of the Theotokos, she never sinned at all, although having been born under the shadow of ancestral sin, still required salvation through her Son, which she of course received as the early church attested.

PTW · 2025-11-20T20:20:17-0600

X-Men: The Animated Series

Isaac the Recluse · 2025-11-20T20:19:07-0600

Lacking kakorrhaphiophobia, ostragoths pillaged Rome.

KKRRH

Valletta · 2025-11-20T20:15:59-0600

Reed has a long criminal record. CBS News Chicago found 49 arrests — including 10 felony cases. Three cases were later dropped, six ended up with convictions ranging from probation to 30 days in the Cook County Jail — and in the case of one drug conviction from 2003, two years in Illinois state prison.
Among them was an active aggravated battery case from just this past August.
In that incident, Reed is accused of hitting a social worker at MacNeal Hospital Psychiatry and Behavioral Health in west suburban Berwyn. The attack caused loss of consciousness, ER visits, lasting memory issues, headaches, and daily nausea for the social worker, the Cook County State's Attorney's office said at the time.

Man faces federal terrorism charges for allegedly setting woman on fire on Blue Line train in Chicago

Federal charges were issued Wednesday against a man accused of setting a woman on fire on a CTA Blue Line train in downtown Chicago this week.

www.cbsnews.com

They still don't get it.

CLEEB · 2025-11-20T20:11:05-0600

Clare73 said:
That is precisely what Paul states:

Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived (1 Tim 2:14).
Adam chose to sin with her.

Because Adam wasn’t deceived and Eve was is proof of free will because if there was no free will their response would have been the same. It shows a difference in wills between Adam and Eve. Why is it so difficult to see that both Adam and Eve did not acquire the knowledge of good and evil until Adam ate the forbidden fruit ? In order to sin you must have the knowledge of good and evil and do the evil instead of the good. James 4:17 Adams sin was unique because it determined the course of humanity our sins do not. Today every man dies for his own sin. Adam and Eve at their creation were not innocent of sin because they were righteous but because they were ignorant.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-20T20:05:07-0600

DamianWarS said:
1 Cor 7:19 when studied with Gal 5:6 and Gal 6:15 show us mirror versions. All address circumcision as nothing and contrast it with "what counts" and all written by Paul. The "what counts" part is not 3 separate things, it's all the same thing. This reveals to us what Paul means by "commandments of God" in 1 Cor 7:19 since it is the same thing as "faith expressed through love" in Gal 5:6 and "the new creation" in 6:15. When viewed together they move away from old covenant laws and point to values of faith and love in the new covenant under Christ. In these verses, it seems Paul is contrasting the old (circumcision) with the new (new creation). You could say circumcision is a reference to in Christ we are neither circumcised/uncircumcised but I don't think that changes the outcome of what counts. What counts still is a forward direction to Christ over a backwards to the law.

The Scriptures do not say the the commandments of God are redefined. When something is used interchangeably it means it works backwards and forwards, not just the one we like based on our own definition of it. The commandments of God are just that Exo20:6 Deut4:13 who better to define God’s commandments than God Himself- He did and literally wrote them out. Jesus never changed them- He promised He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-30 , Mat15:3-14 Mat7:7-13 Mat19:17-19 since He is the One speaking them, the only thing we should do is just believe. That’s what faith is all about. The commandments of God are kept by faith and faith is keeping the commandments of God. It works forwards and backwards not changing the definition that God gave.

timothyu · 2025-11-20T19:48:53-0600

SarahsKnight said:
I mean, when He told us to "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you", of course we were all supposed to understand that, all the while, the One who commanded us to love our enemies is planning to torture His enemies alive for eternity. >_>

As many who live under the oppression of bullies would one day hope for their oppressors, failing to understand that those bullies were the product of whatever made them that way, and in seeking revenge, the victim has also become the bully

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-20T19:38:11-0600

Since it's apparently acceptable to use funeral situations as a means for political posturing based on the invite list...

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-20T19:08:58-0600

zippy2006 said:
As a libertarian do you think federal meddling is going to fix the economy for everyone? That there is some benevolent motive from the federal overlords that is bound to bring us into utopia?

The whole framing of the issue as, "How the federal government can create an economy that works for everyone," is remarkably naive.

I'm not that much of a "full blown libertarian" anymore...I was some years back

But that aside...

Yes, there are certain forms of competition in the markets that can lead to anti-competition (monopolies being the most obvious form of that) if left unchecked.

Economically speaking, there are certain imbalances and problems where the free market is too blunt an instrument to correct the issue in the timeframe it needs to be corrected.

If you want to see how things look completely unchecked, the country's business landscape would look pretty much like a series of these

Company store - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...where the housing, store, and services were all provided the company you worked for, and you were paid in a special company currency that only worked for the services they offered, basically just funneling employee earnings right back to the company they work for.

I said it a few times in this thread, if you want to see a meaningful change in our economy in a way that works for more people, society needs to be less enamored with college degrees for the litany of jobs that currently require them, but don't actually need to.

partinobodycular · 2025-11-20T19:05:51-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Can’t trust AI.

View attachment 373411

Congratulations, this is the most circuitous route to a point that I've ever seen. :bow:

NxNW · 2025-11-20T19:04:03-0600

BNR32FAN said:
I’m a young earth creationist and I don’t see any conclusive evidence to support evolution. Evidence in support of a particular theory or position doesn’t verify the validity of that theory or position if the evidence is inconclusive.

A theory is never proved conclusively.

partinobodycular · 2025-11-20T19:00:38-0600

Landon Caeli said:
What about AI that observes whether you yawn too much at work, or if your eyes appear tired too often? Would you be okay with that? Because that tech already exists, and is in use.

Why would I care?

pasifika · 2025-11-20T19:00:02-0600

Dan Perez said:
And we are not under the LAW but under Grace , Rom 6:14.

Do you have a verse !!

If you say we are , can. you EPLAIN how anyone can. be saved under the NEW COVENANT.

And you EXPLAIN HEB. 9:18. , PLEASE ??
dan p

Romans 3:25, James 2:26 etc

Hebrews 9:18, it's about the new way to God through the new covenant. this knowledge which was kept hidden since the time of the old covenant. Now we can know this mystery by the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. Col 1:25,26

Belk · 2025-11-20T18:59:27-0600

Valletta said:
Insurrection and sedition are serious offenses, and we have come as close to those in the last year as any other time since the Civil War. For something that is well known to the public and has been done before, a lawsuit is the proper course for those who think it is un-Constitutional.

According to whom?

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-20T18:34:11-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Oh, those ICE witnesses...

Body-camera video appears to contradict the government’s claim that Marimar Martinez drove toward officers before one of them opened fire at her Saturday morning in Brighton Park, her attorney alleged.

DOJ dismisses charges against 2 people accused of ramming vehicle of federal agents conducting Chicago immigration sweeps

U.S District Judge Georgia Alexakis dismissed the charges against Marimar Martinez and Anthony Ruiz after the Department of Justice abruptly requested her to do so.

The decision by the DOJ to dismiss the charges against Martinez and Ruiz came a day after a federal judge in Chicago ordered the government to turn over to the defense additional text messages by the CBP agents involved in the incident.

Alexakis dismissed the charges without [sic] prejudice, meaning the case cannot be brought back. [CBS says it was with prejudice.]

An October DHS statement said CBP agents opened fire on Martinez in self-defense, alleging she was "armed with a semi-automatic weapon" [it was in her purse and legal] and was driving one of three vehicles that "cornered" and rammed the CBP agents' vehicles.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-20T18:27:46-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Judge grills government over apparent lapses in Comey indictment
The case's prosecutor said the full grand jury didn't see the final indictment.

In reversal, DOJ says Comey indictment was reviewed by full grand jury

In a reversal from what the Department of Justice represented in court and in written filings Wednesday, federal prosecutors said Thursday that the full grand jury reviewed the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey.

Phil G · 2025-11-20T18:21:57-0600

Apple Sky said:
Oh, so we're all pagan now for knowing the earth is flat, well, I suppose it makes a change from being called retarded or stupid.

You don’t “know” the earth is flat. You’ve got no evidence, nothing, just an irrational belief that is refuted by the evidence all around us.

Brother Del · 2025-11-20T18:20:11-0600

WolfGate said:
He's actually right, but it's not the battle he thinks it is. The real battle is to prevent the church from being overrun with the heresy of placing political power and influence over the gospel. You can be both conservative and denounce the violent and dehumanizing rhetoric sweeping through Republican politics - and liberal Christians can do the same when it occurs from Democrats. Unfortunately, Christians are choosing to remain silent on that topic even while often repeating the most opposed-to-scripture talking points of their political idols.

The true Church, which is the actual body of Christ, the Israel of God, and the Temple made without hands, has no part in this conflict, our battles are not with flesh and blood.

The godless entity passing itself off as "the church" was overrun quite some time ago.

Jeesuspelastaa · 2025-11-20T18:15:31-0600

THE LAW IS FULFILLED
“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” Romans 13:8–10 (KJV).

And everyone who has come into the new covenant knows that this does not mean freedom to practice sin, because God’s will is in our new nature, in our hearts. “We have the mind of Christ.” 1 Cor. 2:16.

Carmenls · 2025-11-20T18:04:25-0600

Please ask God to heal my health issue and allow me to be comfortable. And if it is His will allow my son Jake to be healthy and happy and to heal him and give him joy. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you. Carmen.

BobRyan · 2025-11-20T17:58:00-0600

JohnB445 said:
I had thought, I am reading so little why even bother right now.

is this the wrong kind of thinking? I have so much going on in life with work, right now it seems I don't have the time to do anything

Make more time for God.

Get out of bed earlier.
let TV/Internet entertainment time drop out in favor of reading the Word of God

lucypevensie · 2025-11-20T17:56:10-0600

Football field

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Body-camera video appears to contradict the government’s claim that Marimar Martinez drove toward officers before one of them opened fire at her Saturday morning in Brighton Park, her attorney alleged.​

DOJ dismisses charges against 2 people accused of ramming vehicle of federal agents conducting Chicago immigration sweeps​

Judge grills government over apparent lapses in Comey indictment​

In reversal, DOJ says Comey indictment was reviewed by full grand jury​

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Body-camera video appears to contradict the government’s claim that Marimar Martinez drove toward officers before one of them opened fire at her Saturday morning in Brighton Park, her attorney alleged.

DOJ dismisses charges against 2 people accused of ramming vehicle of federal agents conducting Chicago immigration sweeps

Judge grills government over apparent lapses in Comey indictment

In reversal, DOJ says Comey indictment was reviewed by full grand jury