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Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History
- By BCP1928
- Physical & Life Sciences
- 705 Replies
To sum up, you take "comparable in accuracy to modern processes such as CNC lathe turning," and glibly turn "comparable in accuracy" into "must have used" and then compare that to the entirely fictitious "orthodox" or "mainstream view" which you have conjured up. I'm still not seeing how that gets you any closer to Atlantis.Your response speaks different.
OK first here is the circularity. This reading alone puts the vase in the precision and modern machining level. Impossible to obtain by hand.
The Red Granite Amphora Jar or "OG Vase" was found to exhibit exterior circularity tolerances as low as 0.0004 inches or 0.0094 mm. In fact the median circularity across the entire vertical (z-axis) of the vessel is approximately 0.0006 inches or 0.0162 mm.
The exterior median concentricity was 0.0018 of an inch. The interior was 0.0019 inches.
View attachment 371509
OG Vase | Artifact Foundation
www.artifactfoundation.org
This is from the original testing of the original red granite vase.
Based on the plate layout inspection performed, we recognize that the manufacturing precision of the six ancient granite vessels is comparable in accuracy to modern processes such as CNC lathe turning, exhibited in the modern control vessel. In terms of concentricity, roundness, and continuity, we believe such results are typically achieved using high-precision modern machinery.
Now it may be your reading a partuclar measure that is less precise in places. That is the case in some places due to wear or damage or just slightly less precise work. But its the median score that is used which puts it in the precision class. But even the less precise readings we are only talking 2 or 3 thicknesses of paper up to the best precision of a hair or two.
What context. Archeologist categorising has nothing to do with engineering or forensics on tool marks to determine what caused them. They just attribute artifacts based on form or where they are found or whose name was scratched on them. They have no idea about forensic tooling methods.
Whereas precision tool experts who come from a background in engineering. Reverse engineer the signatures and understand the types to tools that make the different marks on items. Know the tolerances, what can create tight tolerances ect into different kinds of material.
Yes this method of determining artifact origin and methods is faulty as it assums certain styles belong to certain periods or people. Two vases may look superficially the same but one is actually a copy of the other or has completely different methods of creation.
Like the precision vases were also found with soft imprecise vases which are more like later vases. So the precision vases are out of place for that peoples level of tech and knowledge.
No open source non peer reviewed published science is not some social media complains. It needs to be at the same level as the testers. Done formerly with proper equipement and a detailed analysis from the tests with diagrams and explainations.
Like for like. If you do a test in a lab with proper testing and data then this requires retesting in labs with proper equipment and analysis that goes with it.
Their tests and open source nature is designed to allow skeptics to download the files run the tests and analysis themselves and then upload the findings that disagree.
Perhaps the open source nature is part of determining any errors in the testing before it is presented in a paper. Thats good science in being open to challenging their results.
Well thats where you have to look at the video as he explains his imput and expertise on the findings. He certainly was at the testing and measuring the vases. Considering he is a percision parts expert he would know a thing or two about metrology and precision.
What is your role that you are in a position to be determining the validity of these researchers. You seem to be vague on even knowing their bac kground let alone be making judgements about which researcher counts or not lol.
I am speaking of publishing azs far as allowing others to download the results to verify or refute them. They are not at the stage of peer review publishing yet. The tests and feedback or refuting is part of determining the strength of the evidence.
So in the meantime you can submit a formal article refuting the tests or testers if you want and they can then respond. Show that your complain is invalid or reveals something.
Fait enough. But in that post I think I was responding to the same ad hominiem. So for me it was like a ad hominiem on a ad hominiem lol. Because thats all that was happening. Just post after post of ad hominiems.
The thing is I am pretty sure you have made claims ie archeologists are the best experts, ancient could have had a lathe, lathes or devices can be made easy, you just have to do this and this ect. None with any expert support lol..
But I am still engaging in reasoning the contents and not saying your not qualified to say this or that. Whereas it seems discrediting the sources or the providence of the vases has now become the attack point rather than just dealing with the plain hard data that the tests found.
No its not and thats another misrepresentation. Did the reddit guys have formal tests, did they lay out a paper that explains the steps and analysis. No. They are just giving a social media comment.
There is no obligation to show every step and explain thing. Whereis there are in these articles. Can I go to the reddit and find an article they made showing they properly calibrated or went through all the steps. Afterall your making claims. I am to just take your 1 and 2 sentense objections as a formal analysis or something off the top of your head. I can't see any steps where you came to your conclusions.
Lol like I said you need to read the reply in its context. My reply was not me trying to establish their credentials. It was skeptics attacking the researchers and I feel for their ad hominem and was defending the researchers. You just compounded the ad hominem.
I have in that at least they have bothers to get the right equipement, the experts to at least know the equipement and do the metrology and then make a formal analysis and put it in a formal article for the public with the steps they took toi show how. What you doing is no where near that. I would expect the same level of formal effort and steps to refute the researchers. Its only fair.
See this is exactly what I mean. You just literally speak the words without any expert qualification or context or explaination or steps in how you determined this and I'm suppose to take this like its peer reviewed. Your expecting unreal or unfair levels of these researchers while lowering the bar for yourself.
What is the inconsistency. They all reach the same findings lol. Theres even a couple of short videos where they use guage wrenches or callipers with digital readouts live and you see the circularity right before your eyes. How many ways do they have to measure circularity of the vase to show the numbers don't lie. Its not as if the numbers change themselves on the digital readouts.
I give up this whole post is one big ad hominem. What about your credentials in even determining all this. Are we to just take your words at face value as the true representation and that your not adding in your own bias. How do we tell.
How does any of this change the hard data of the numbers that are produced by the measuring devices. What about the gusage metrology. You can literally sit there and watch the readouts as the sensors are going round thevase or the callipers are pinching the uniformity of the wall thickness.
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How the ‘Miracle of the Sun’ in Fátima helped to end an atheist regime
- By Michie
- One Bread, One Body - Catholic
- 0 Replies
Oct. 13, 1917, marked the last Marian apparition in Fátima and the day on which thousands of people bore witness to the miracle of the dancing sun — a miracle that shattered the prevalent belief at the time that God was no longer relevant.
Marco Daniel Duarte, a theologian and director of the Fátima Shrine museums, shared with CNA the impact that the miracle of the sun made during those days in Portugal.
If one were to open philosophy books during that period, he or she would likely read something akin to the concept conceived by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, who boldly asserted in the late 1800s that “God is dead.”
Also, in 1917 Portugal, the majority of the world was embroiled in war. As World War I raged throughout Europe, Portugal found itself unable to maintain its initial neutrality and joined forces with the Allies. More than 220,000 Portuguese civilians died during the war, thousands due to food shortages and thousands more from the Spanish flu.
Continued below.
www.catholicnewsagency.com
Marco Daniel Duarte, a theologian and director of the Fátima Shrine museums, shared with CNA the impact that the miracle of the sun made during those days in Portugal.
If one were to open philosophy books during that period, he or she would likely read something akin to the concept conceived by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, who boldly asserted in the late 1800s that “God is dead.”
Also, in 1917 Portugal, the majority of the world was embroiled in war. As World War I raged throughout Europe, Portugal found itself unable to maintain its initial neutrality and joined forces with the Allies. More than 220,000 Portuguese civilians died during the war, thousands due to food shortages and thousands more from the Spanish flu.
Continued below.
How the ‘Miracle of the Sun’ in Fátima helped end an atheist regime
Oct. 13, 1917, marked the last Marian apparition in Fátima, a day on which thousands of people bore witness to the Miracle of the Sun.
www.catholicnewsagency.com
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Why you can't debate unbelievers into the Kingdom of God
- By 2PhiloVoid
- Christian Philosophy & Ethics
- 2 Replies
A great piece on how we go about conducting ourselves as Christians.
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In an age addicted to argument, Christians have become remarkably good at talking — and remarkably poor at listening. Scroll through social media or walk past a campus debate table, and you’ll see believers armed with microphones, cameras, and carefully memorized rebuttals. The object is not conversion but conquest. The applause line has replaced the altar call.
Somewhere along the way, we began to confuse winning debates with winning souls. Yet Scripture presents a very different picture of how truth changes hearts. The Gospel was never designed to be wielded like a sword in a duel of intellects; it was meant to be offered like bread to the hungry.
The problem with the debate mindset
Apologetics has its place. Reasoned defense of the faith can clarify misunderstandings and expose falsehoods. But when the believer’s primary instinct is to defeat rather than to disciple, something sacred is lost. Too many of today’s “discussions” look more like verbal brawls—complete with highlight reels and hashtags — than like Gospel witness.
Paul warned Timothy, “Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness” (2 Tim. 2:23–25). Those words are as necessary in the digital age as they were in the first century. Debate can inform minds, but only the Spirit can transform hearts.
Why argument alone fails
Continued below.
Why you can't debate unbelievers into the Kingdom of God
In an age addicted to argument, Christians have become remarkably good at talkingwww.christianpost.com
I've never tried to argue a non-believer "into the Kingdom" with apologetics. But I will defend my beliefs to a certain degree as we're encouraged by Scripture to do (ala 1 Peter 3:15) in line with my main intention of encouraging other people, no matter who they are, to find Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Moreover, existentially speaking, and as a critical Philosophy, I'm not going to put up with ridiculous misrepresentations of the Christian faith or with ill-reasoned evaluations of my own Christian understanding, no matter what quadrant of humanity they may come from.
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How Should Catholics Understand the Rogue Exorcist in Mark 9?
- By Michie
- One Bread, One Body - Catholic
- 0 Replies
In Mark 9, we hear about a man unaffiliated with the disciples who casts out demons in Jesus’s name:
This same episode is also recorded in Luke 9:49-50, while St. Matthew’s Gospel includes a variation on the warning Jesus delivers to His disciples: “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters” (Matt 12:30).
For Catholic readers of the Gospels, the exorcist passage raises some interesting questions. Is Jesus saying that obedience to the apostles and their successors is unimportant? Is He implying that all branches of Christianity are equally valid? And if not, then what exactly is He trying to teach us in this passage?
The Necessity of Following Jesus
Continued below.
stpaulcenter.com
This same episode is also recorded in Luke 9:49-50, while St. Matthew’s Gospel includes a variation on the warning Jesus delivers to His disciples: “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters” (Matt 12:30).
For Catholic readers of the Gospels, the exorcist passage raises some interesting questions. Is Jesus saying that obedience to the apostles and their successors is unimportant? Is He implying that all branches of Christianity are equally valid? And if not, then what exactly is He trying to teach us in this passage?
The Necessity of Following Jesus
Continued below.
How Should Catholics Understand the Rogue Exorcist in Mark 9? - St. Paul Center
In Mark 9, we hear about a man unaffiliated with the disciples who casts out demons in Jesus’s name: John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty...
Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...
- By Larniavc
- News & Current Events (Articles Required)
- 195 Replies
There you go
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Pope Hails Glimmers of Hope for Peace in Holy Land and Prays for Ukraine
- By Michie
- OBOB General Politics Forum
- 0 Replies
Following the Mass for the Jubilee of Marian Spirituality, Pope Leo XIV turns his thoughts and prayers to the suffering people of the Holy Land, of Ukraine, and of Peru, where political turmoil has brought instability to the nation.
At the conclusion of the Mass for the Jubilee of Marian Spirituality in St Peter’s Square, Pope Leo XIV turned his thoughts to those suffering the consequences of conflict, political instability, and other forms of injustice around the world.
“Two years of conflict have left death and destruction everywhere,” the Pope said. “Especially in the hearts of those who have brutally lost their children, their parents, their friends - everything.”
Continued below.
www.vaticannews.va
At the conclusion of the Mass for the Jubilee of Marian Spirituality in St Peter’s Square, Pope Leo XIV turned his thoughts to those suffering the consequences of conflict, political instability, and other forms of injustice around the world.
Peace in the Holy Land
His thoughts and prayers, first, turned to the Holy Land, and especially to the human cost of the violence.“Two years of conflict have left death and destruction everywhere,” the Pope said. “Especially in the hearts of those who have brutally lost their children, their parents, their friends - everything.”
Continued below.
Pope hails glimmers of hope for peace in Holy Land and prays for Ukraine - Vatican News
Following the Mass for the Jubilee of Marian Spirituality, Pope Leo XIV turns his thoughts and prayers to the suffering people of the Holy Land, of ...
www.vaticannews.va
American Catholics, Heed the Pope’s Call to Champion Religious Freedom in Nigeria and Elsewhere
- By Michie
- One Bread, One Body - Catholic
- 0 Replies
A dire humanitarian crisis demands an American response grounded in both principle and prudence.
Last Friday, Pope Leo XIV reminded the world of what is at stake.
Speaking to representatives of Aid to the Church in Need, the Holy Father declared that religious freedom “is not merely a legal right or a privilege granted to us by governments; it is a foundational condition that makes authentic reconciliation possible.” He continued, “It is therefore a cornerstone of any just society, for it safeguards the moral space in which conscience may be formed and exercised.”
When religious freedom is denied, the Holy Father warned, “trust gives way to fear, suspicion replaces dialogue, and oppression breeds violence.”
Catholics in the United States should take the Holy Father's counsel to heart — as well as know that defending the persecuted is entirely consistent with President Donald Trump's “America First” approach to foreign policy. It means wielding diplomacy, moral clarity and targeted policy tools to protect the innocent and defend the right to religious expression and worship. It means recognizing that nations respecting religious freedom are more stable, more prosperous, and less prone to the violence that threatens American interests.
Continued below.
www.ncregister.com
Last Friday, Pope Leo XIV reminded the world of what is at stake.
Speaking to representatives of Aid to the Church in Need, the Holy Father declared that religious freedom “is not merely a legal right or a privilege granted to us by governments; it is a foundational condition that makes authentic reconciliation possible.” He continued, “It is therefore a cornerstone of any just society, for it safeguards the moral space in which conscience may be formed and exercised.”
When religious freedom is denied, the Holy Father warned, “trust gives way to fear, suspicion replaces dialogue, and oppression breeds violence.”
Catholics in the United States should take the Holy Father's counsel to heart — as well as know that defending the persecuted is entirely consistent with President Donald Trump's “America First” approach to foreign policy. It means wielding diplomacy, moral clarity and targeted policy tools to protect the innocent and defend the right to religious expression and worship. It means recognizing that nations respecting religious freedom are more stable, more prosperous, and less prone to the violence that threatens American interests.
Continued below.
American Catholics, Heed the Pope’s Call to Champion Religious Freedom in Nigeria and Elsewhere
COMMENTARY: A dire humanitarian crisis demands an American response grounded in both principle and prudence.
Disgusting! Bigoted, Anti-Catholic Costumes
- By Michie
- One Bread, One Body - Catholic
- 0 Replies
Please forward this URL and Share it on Social Media!
Warning!... deeply disturbing
When we did this years ago, their accompanying 'description' mockingly said
“it could be the second immaculate conception!”
Please read and then help me keep - the - pressure - ON.
I deeply regret to inform you that right nowthere are, once again, pages on Amazonselling immoral, anti-Catholic Halloween costumes.
READ WITH CAUTION: Horrible, immoral description coming up – as ‘sanitized’ as possible.
Our past pressure on Amazon seems to have had some success. The Amazon vendors removed the mind-in-the-gutter, anti-Catholic, and anti-purity/celibacy 'descriptive' text that had accompanied the photos of the two costumes.
Continued below.
Disgusting! Bigoted, Anti-Catholic Costumes
Sign this Petition and Protest Now! Urge Them To TAKE DOWN THESE PAGES mocking priests, nuns, and the Immaculate Conception!
americaneedsfatima.org
