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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Boston-area pastor refuses to remove anti-ICE Nativity scene, seeks meeting with archbishop

The pastor of a Catholic parish near Boston says an anti-immigration-enforcement display in its Nativity scene will stay up at least for the time being, and he is asking for a meeting with the archbishop.

The announcement Monday night — more than three days after the Archdiocese of Boston said the display should be removed — leaves the parish and Archbishop Richard Henning of Boston at an impasse.

“We are waiting for an opportunity of dialogue and clarity with [Arch]bishop Henning before reaching any final decisions,” Father Stephen Josoma said, according to a video of a press conference published by MassLive.com.

The display, put up Nov. 29 outside St. Susanna Church in Dedham, Massachusetts, includes a large sign saying “ICE Was Here” and another sign explaining that the absent figures of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are safe inside the church building. The display also includes a telephone number to report the presence of U.S. Immigration and Customs agents to an organization that monitors them.

A spokesman for Archbishop Henning on Friday described the display as inappropriate and said it should be removed.

“The people of God have the right to expect that, when they come to church, they will encounter genuine opportunities for prayer and Catholic worship — not divisive political messaging. The Church’s norms prohibit the use of sacred objects for any purpose other than the devotion of God’s people. This includes images of the Christ Child in the manger, which are to be used solely to foster faith and devotion,” said Terrence Donilon, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Boston, by email.

“Regarding the recent incident, St. Susanna Parish neither requested nor received permission from the Archdiocese to depart from this canonical norm or to place a politically divisive display outside the church. The display should be removed, and the manger restored to its proper sacred purpose,” Donilon said Friday.

Father Josoma’s stance​


Continued below.

Anyone up for a chat thread?

We ate lunch in an Asian buffet on the city centre in Munich. The waitress was trying to be personable and asked me if I was Australian! Apparently handsome white blokes who wear ear flap hats and speak good English are Australian. I was amused.
If you are still in Germany, find Black Forest Gateaux, and eat it. :)
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Family Issues

That's terrible that you went through that I don't doubt that angered you, goodness gracious... I'm sorry you seriously had to deal with that.
I get really sad more than angry. It did make me a fierce anti-gossip though.

At the moment I feel like God is saying "boundaries" with them and not completely cutting them off, so I'm learning to manage where my cut off point is and where boundary enforcement is and I'm thinking I may need to re-draw my lines.
Yes to this. Boundaries is massively better than no contact, if it is at all safe to go that way.
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Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own

You don't know me very well, do you, NxNW?

Tell that to cancer and transplant patients who survive, or the military who use weapons designed by science.

There's a good side to science, and there's a bad side to science.

I lift the good side up to a Higher Standard that no unbeliever can do; and I abase the bad side down to a level that no unbeliever can.

It's that simple.

Science is a gift from God.

Given to us in stages to make our lives better.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are pretty impressive results, wouldn't you say?

I would indeed.

Or multiple trips to the moon?

Waste of time and money, in my opinion.

(Oh, wait, you think that's fake).

That's why I said you don't know me.

The trips to the moon and back were not fake.

You must have me mixed up with someone else.

That's exactly what they are.

Cause-and-effect ... yes indeed.

Footprints in the sand.

I don't believe Christ ever existed,

Interesting, in light of ...

Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically.

SOURCE

... just as you don't believe Zeus, Ra, or Dionysus or a thousand other gods never existed.

I don't?

What's this then?

You do know I think Zeus is real, do you not?

You don't know me very well, do you?
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How people choose a church

In thinking about this further I have expanded my view. I agree that the two most obvious churches that are closest to the original or were at least built on that original format. Is the Catholics and Orthodox.

Primarily I could see them unifying out of all churches and denominations because they are at least open to supporting the fundemental ways the early church worshipped. Especially the sacrifice of the bread and wine, the body and blood of Christ.

This is the one factor I think of all things that will unite. Just like the early church it was central and really apart from some prayers and praising and readings this was it. There was no Ted Talk or profound sermon. It was fellowship in the body of Christ.

But unlike some denominations who have no chance of uniting because they are divided. They either dismiss it or reimagine it into how they think it should be done. A modernisation to conform with the world more than Christ.

In saying that I think there are many within all denominations who are of Christ church. They may either partake in it with an honest heart if their church offers it. Or are willing and wanting to do so.

This is where I think Gods spirit comes in. As this is so fundemental and a truth I think all Christians know. But for whatever reasons have been side tracked or denied this. But as the spirit can come over people and then the church I think this can bring Christ spirit to existing groups of Christians who have strayed who will want to go back to partaking of the bread .

On the other hand there will be churches and denomionations which become more worldly and lose their way and we can tell by the fruits and know that we should stay away. We too could be blinded and fooled if not strong in the faith.

I was only thinking this as I am starting to go to a local church associated with a Homeless Hub I work at. A few of the homeless guests go there and they also provide a meal.

I am thinking wow how is this not reflecting Christ church even though they are not Catholic or Orthodox. They are very basic, some bible readings and a bit of a sermon. But not a preachy one and just a down to earth one about lifes struggles and how God offers hope and salvation.

I think these smaller churches or gatherings are probably capturing more closely the essense of sharing the bread of Christ. They just don;t specify it or state the need for it. Certainlt the sharing of a meal beforehand is sort of the same. So I sometimes wonder where the line is.

Its hard to know and Gods spirit works when two or more are gathered. But I sort of believe that Christ is with this small church, they are living His words. Even though they are not practicing this the same way as the Catholics or Orthodox.

Dear Brother,
Your reflection is thoughtful and sincere, and I appreciate the way you are trying to understand the heart of the early church. You are absolutely right about several key points, and there are also a few areas where some clarification can help strengthen your understanding.

First, what you said correctly:
You are right that both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions have preserved many elements of ancient Christian worship. Historically, the earliest Christian gatherings centered on the reading of Scripture, prayer, fellowship, and the breaking of bread. Acts 2:42 says they “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” Your observation that this rhythm has been preserved more consistently in liturgical traditions is historically accurate.

You are also correct that the Eucharist (the early Greek term is Eucharistia meaning “thanksgiving”) was central to early worship. The writings of the church fathers such as Ignatius of Antioch (late first century) and Justin Martyr (mid second century) describe the Eucharist as the core of Christian gathering. So your point about its importance is valid and well grounded in history.

Additionally, your heart for smaller gatherings that live out Christ’s teachings is beautiful. Jesus said in Matthew 18:20, “Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I with them.” Christ is indeed present among believers who gather in humility, love, and truth.

Where some clarification is needed:
  1. Unity will not primarily come through liturgical form but through truth and the Spirit.
    While you are right that the Eucharist was central, Scripture does not teach that unity comes from a particular style of worship but from shared doctrine and the Spirit. Jesus prayed, “Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth” (John 17:17).
    The Greek word hagiason (sanctify) means to set apart by truth, not by ritual.
    Unity comes through the Spirit and the Word, not through outward forms alone.
  2. The early church did have preaching and teaching.
    You mentioned there was no “Ted Talk or profound sermon.” It is true that modern-style sermons did not exist, but teaching was always present.
    Acts 20:7 says Paul “spoke to the people and kept on talking until midnight.”
    The Greek verb dielegeto used here means discussion, reasoning, and teaching.
    So preaching was a normal part of early worship, though more interactive and less performance-driven than today.
  3. Not all denominations reject the Lord’s Table out of worldliness.
    Some churches practice Communion less frequently not because they reject it but because their understanding of it is shaped by Scripture differently than Catholic or Orthodox traditions.
    For example, many evangelical churches emphasize the symbolism found in 1 Corinthians 11, where Paul focuses on the heart, not only the ritual.
    Your concern is understandable, but we must be careful not to assume that different equals worldly.
  4. Sharing a common meal is beautiful but not identical to the biblical Lord’s Supper.
    You are absolutely right that the early church often included meals (called agape feasts). Jude 1:12 refers to them directly.
    But Paul makes a distinction between regular meals and the Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11.
    He writes, “Do you not have houses to eat and drink in?” meaning ordinary food is one thing, the Lord’s Table is another.
    So your sense that “it feels similar” is correct, but biblically they are not the same.
  5. Christ is present wherever believers gather, but the sacraments have their own biblical place.
    Your conclusion about Christ being with the small church you described is absolutely correct.
    However, even if a group reflects Christ in love and community, it does not automatically mean they are practicing the Lord’s Supper in the same sense as the early church.
    Both fellowship and sacrament have value, but they are distinct practices.
Dear Brother,
Your instincts are good, and your heart is in the right place. You rightly sense that God is moving wherever people humbly gather in His name. You also correctly value the early church’s devotion to the breaking of bread.

The only encouragement I offer is to see unity not as something achieved through returning to a particular ritual form but through returning to Scripture, to the Spirit’s leading, and to living out Christ’s commands in love. Doctrine, fellowship, worship, and the sacraments all work together, not against each other.

Thank you for sharing your reflections. They show a sincere desire to understand the heart of the early church and follow Christ faithfully.

Blessings
Pastor waris
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Human/chimp genomic similarity drops to ~85%: for real this time?

Did you need an AI overview for that? Really?

No, sir, I sure didn't.

I knew that a LONG time ago in my pre-teen years.

I would go to Sunday school and hear how God created us, then go to school and learn how [Gaia] created us.

I'm thankful that I learned the Truth in my earlier years; else I may have suffered cognitive dissonance and ended up choosing the wrong path.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
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Charlie Kirk Didn’t Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn’t, Either

It's a graph of expulsions of people attempting to cross the border. As your numbers indicate, Biden caught and expelled a lot more than Trump. I'm still trying to figure out why you think that's a bad thing.

And you think Biden should have gone down there and broken up the demonstration? How would that work? As you see,Biden was focusing on stopping illegal immigrants from crossing the border. As your numbers indicate, he was 4 to 5 times more effective than Trump in this effort.
No, 4 to 5 times as many people were crossing the border and that number is down 96% under Trump. Under Biden most of those people were given an order to appear in court and released into the country
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Hobby Lobby CEO David Green pledges $7M to help rebuild fire-ravaged historic First Baptist Dallas

Hobby Lobby founder and CEO David Green has donated $7 million to help rebuild the historic sanctuary of First Baptist Dallas.

The announcement came during a Sunday morning service at the downtown Dallas megachurch, led by Senior Pastor Robert Jeffress. Nearly 18 months after a devastating four-alarm fire gutted the 134-year-old sanctuary in July 2024, the donation marks a pivotal moment in the congregation's campaign to raise $95 million overall for the new facility and expanded ministries.

Before launching into his sermon series, "The Divine Defense: 6 Supernatural Weapons for Defeating Your Unseen Enemy," Jeffress recounted how Green's offer — initially a matching grant of up to $7 million — evolved into an immediate windfall. "A couple of months ago, you remember David Green, the founder and CEO of Hobby Lobby, came to visit us, and he loves our church. He loves what our church stands for," Jeffress told the congregation.

Continued below.

Rising number of Brits leaving Christianity turning to paganism

A growing number of Britons who leave Christianity are turning to paganism or other forms of spiritualism instead of converting to other major religions, a new study has found.

The survey, released by the Institute for the Impact of Faith in Life, questioned 2,774 adults who self-identified as having "experienced a change in their religious belief," seeking to provide insight into "how, why, and in what direction Britons are moving between faiths, spiritualities, and non-belief."

The researchers conclude that "Britain is not secularising in a straightforward way" but rather "undergoing a re-composition of belief, a shift away from inherited institutional structures towards personalised, practice-based, and wellbeing-oriented forms of faith."

Forty-four percent of respondents said they left Christianity, while only 17% said they had newly become Christians. Meanwhile, 39% of respondents said they had become an atheist or agnostic.

Continued below.

Love codified in the Ten Commandments

I’m not “removing the He who said”—I’m simply letting all of Scripture speak, including the parts that explicitly define the 10 as the Sinai covenant (Deut 4:13) and the parts that explicitly say that covenant is now obsolete and passing away (Heb 8:13), Just because you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean man is deciding what is moral. That is the New Testament interpreting the Old.

Quoting or referring to the 10 in the NT doesn’t mean the Sinai covenant still governs Christians. The NT quotes lots of OT laws and moral teachings without putting believers under those covenants. Moral truth continues and covenant structure changes. That is the distinction Hebrews and Paul make repeatedly. No one is “deciding for God” which commands matter. The NT itself says Christians obey Christ, walk by the Spirit, and fulfill the law through love (Rom 13:8-10; Gal 5:14). That's not replacing God’s law, it’s following the administration of the new covenant God Himself established.

As for “debating AI”, I’m just giving you what the text actually says, not what anyone tells me to argue. You and I simply read the covenant passages differently, and that’s fine. You’re welcome to move on, and I’ll leave it here too.
Well you didn't say you weren't using AI to help your posts and your style has completely changed. You are not giving me what the Text actually says, you left out a lot of context. I can put this argument into AI and it would give me a different version than you're getting. I always prefer prayerfully study more than anything.

We are governed by the New Covenant agreed Heb8:10 Established on better promises Heb8:6 not new laws as it still has God's laws written now in the heart and only God can define His laws, not man. The fact remains that the apostles and Jesus still quoted them as being law in the NT never once said the law of God changed or we don't have to keep them or parts of them changed, in fact NT plainly says not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and breaking one we break them all James2:11. Because God- who there is no one above, said in His own Words- I will not alter the words of My covenant. Psa89:34 Exo34:28 Heb8:10 The words did not change, the location changed "magnified" Isa42:21 written in the heart of the New Covenant believers, those who do not have subject themselves to the law of God are the ones sadly in rebellion. Rom8:7-8

Jesus quoted verbatim from the OT on the greatest commandments Deut6:5 which was repeated after the Ten Commandments was repeated before entering the Promise Land. Many never entered due to disobedience Heb4:6 and God tells us verbatim why they did not enter Eze20:16 and in the NT we are told not to follow their same path of disobedience Heb4:11.

Love does fulfill the commandments because if we love God, we will not break the first 4 commandments of His laws on how we love and worship God, if we love our neighbor we are not going to break the last six commandments, the summary of the second greatest commandments Rom13:9 why this is the love of God we keep His commandments 1John5:3 and only God defines them Exo20:6, not man, because mans testimony will never be greater than God's Exo31:18
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

This was as far as I got, I've got other things to do and your whole post is a mess.
Yes this is the atheistic and materialistic view of alternative knowledge.
Not "atheistic". Atheism is the rejection of gods, not the supernatural. (It's too bad you aren't arguing with the me from 30 years ago.)
Because the only true knowledge is material ie matter, particles, forces and fields. There is nothing else and even the alternative knowledge is the byproduct of the material.
That isn't what I am saying.
What is YT lol.
For someone who gets most of their "ideas" from YT videos, you seem rather oblivious to it.
Yes those specific investigators mainly look at the physical evidence of out of place stuff. But that also includes maths and geometry and other ideas about transcedent beliefs that were associated with some of those practices. You cannot seperate them out as this is part of how they claim to have achieved their knowledge.
Putting some "fun math" into the design of an object does not qualify as "transcendent knowledge". It is just math. Could it be a signal that they knew math we didn't know they knew? Absolutely. But that doesn't embue it with magical properties. (I thought "lost knowledge" was the whole theme of your thread.)
No I am not rejecting methodological naturalism but its abuse. Its use to snuff out alternative knowledge. Thats when it becomes a belief and not science.

Not thats you belief. Your assumption.
For someone not rejecting methodological naturalism, you certainly spend a lot of words rejecting methodological naturalism and confusing science with belief. (If "alternative knowledge" is real, then it will be "knowledge" (just like with medicine). As it stands this "alternative knowledge" you present is nothing but wild-eyed speculation.
The idea may be spectualtive but the basis is solid science.
"Simulation theory" is speculative and it is not science, certainly not "solid science."
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Rising number of Brits leaving Christianity turning to paganism

A growing number of Britons who leave Christianity are turning to paganism or other forms of spiritualism instead of converting to other major religions, a new study has found.

The survey, released by the Institute for the Impact of Faith in Life, questioned 2,774 adults who self-identified as having "experienced a change in their religious belief," seeking to provide insight into "how, why, and in what direction Britons are moving between faiths, spiritualities, and non-belief."

The researchers conclude that "Britain is not secularising in a straightforward way" but rather "undergoing a re-composition of belief, a shift away from inherited institutional structures towards personalised, practice-based, and wellbeing-oriented forms of faith."

Forty-four percent of respondents said they left Christianity, while only 17% said they had newly become Christians. Meanwhile, 39% of respondents said they had become an atheist or agnostic.

Continued below.

Rising number of Brits leaving Christianity turning to paganism

A growing number of Britons who leave Christianity are turning to paganism or other forms of spiritualism instead of converting to other major religions, a new study has found.

The survey, released by the Institute for the Impact of Faith in Life, questioned 2,774 adults who self-identified as having "experienced a change in their religious belief," seeking to provide insight into "how, why, and in what direction Britons are moving between faiths, spiritualities, and non-belief."

The researchers conclude that "Britain is not secularising in a straightforward way" but rather "undergoing a re-composition of belief, a shift away from inherited institutional structures towards personalised, practice-based, and wellbeing-oriented forms of faith."

Forty-four percent of respondents said they left Christianity, while only 17% said they had newly become Christians. Meanwhile, 39% of respondents said they had become an atheist or agnostic.

Continued below.

Why the world cannot ignore Christian Armenian hostages in Baku

Across the globe, Christians are enduring persecution and discrimination on a scale unmatched in the modern era. Recent assessments estimate that hundreds of millions of Christians — roughly 1 in 7 believers worldwide, and closer to 1 in 5 in Africa — live in places where their faith puts them at daily risk. In just the past reporting year, well over a quarter-million Christians were driven from their homes.

These are not just statistics. They are families. They are futures. And for my family, this crisis has a name: Ruben Vardanyan.

A personal story of faith under fire

As the world prepares to celebrate Christmas — a season of hope and freedom — my siblings and I are clinging to the hope of seeing our father again. My daughter has never met her grandfather; she was born after he was taken captive more than two years ago.

On Sept. 27, 2023, Azerbaijani forces captured my father as he attempted to leave Nagorno-Karabakh along with the last 120,000 indigenous Christian Armenians still living there — victims of one of the most severe campaigns of forced displacement against a Christian population in the 21st century. His “crime” was advocating for the right of Christian Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh to live safely in their ancestral homeland.

Today, he and 22 other Armenian Christian detainees remain imprisoned in Baku — denied due process, denied spiritual support, and even denied the right to possess a Bible.

And yet, the world has not remained silent.

My father’s case has drawn bipartisan support in the U.S. Congress, as well as strong advocacy from the French Parliament, the European Parliament, and leading human-rights organizations such as Amnesty International — all calling for his immediate and unconditional release. These voices are united: his detention is unlawful and unjustified. And yet, despite these efforts, my father remains behind bars.

The United States has leverage — and a duty to act

Continued below.
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