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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Israel-Hamas Thread II

The saying connects G-d's enduring promise to preserve the nation of Israel with the consistent, reliable cycle of the sun, drawing on biblical verses like Jeremiah 31:35-36 and Jeremiah 33:25-26. These passages state that G-d's covenant with Israel will only cease to be valid if the fundamental laws of creation, such as the sun rising and setting, were to fail. Therefore, the sun's continued shining is seen as evidence that the covenant and its promise of preservation remain in effect.
Silly.
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A perspective on Baptism and the plan of salvation that I have not heard before

Mary was not the first to obey God.
  • Adam and Eve obeyed God. There is an indeterminate period of time between the creation of Adam and Eve and the fall. See Genesis 2:25.
  • Abel obeyed God. See Genesis 4:3-4.
  • The sons of God in Genesis obeyed God until they started mingling with the daughters of men. See Romans 6:16, Romans 8:4, Romans 8:14.
  • Noah obeyed God. See Genesis 6:22.
  • Abraham obeyed God's charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. See Genesis 26:5.
These are just a few examples. The number of people who obeyed God, before Mary lived, are not recorded, but one can come to the reasonable conclusion that there were people obedient to God from the beginning to Mary. Just as there have been people obedient to God from the time of Mary to the present. Scripture records that there will be people obedient to God until the second coming.
In Adam, all died. There are those that obeyed God in part, but Mary is the first with perfect obedience. As Canticles (song of Solomon) 6:8-9 says

8 One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her. The daughters saw her, and declared her most blessed: the queens and concubines, and they praised her. 9 Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in array?


In Luke, Mary identifies as the perfect one by saying all generations will call me blessed, and also my soul magnifies the Lord. The Lord is not magnified by sin. It is a grave error to say He is so magnified. Else as Paul laments, shall we sin more so that Grace may more abound? God forbid!!
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World Domination, Tyranny, and Oppression

“Men of low degree are only vanity and men of rank are a lie;
In the balances they go up;
They are together lighter than breath.
Do not trust in oppression
And do not vainly hope in robbery;
If riches increase, do not set your heart upon them.” (Psalm 62:9-10 NASB1995)

I wondered what was meant by “men of low degree” so I looked it up on Bible Hub in their interlinear, and it says the word is “Adam” or “humankind,” meaning human, or human flesh. For in our flesh natures we are sinners by nature, born into sin in the image of Adam, the first man created by God, and the first man to sin against God. And without God, without God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, we are lost creatures still living in bondage to sin without hope of salvation from sin and without hope of eternal life with God.

And “men of rank” could be people of self-importance or other human beings who are being ranked higher than others because of who they are, or because of their popularity among the people, or because of their wealth or their positions of power and rank in religious institutions or in corporations or in the government. They are people of enormous influence over those who rank them as high up and who follow them because of their prestige. But many of them are not to be trusted. Many are very deceptive, in fact.

Basically what this is indicating is that we should not put our trust in human beings who are flesh, many of whom cannot be trusted to tell us the truth, and many who will deliberately and habitually lie to us with the full intention to deceive, to manipulate, and to convince us that they are the ones we should believe, and in whom we should place our trust. We should not look to any government heads or politicians or preachers or pastors of “church” congregations or the news media, etc., to tell us the truth and not the lies.

We are also not to put our trust in oppression (world domination, tyranny, dictatorship, totalitarianism, persecution, subjugation, authoritarianism). So please know the signs of these types of rules in world governments, for this is where we are now in the world. The powers that be in the world, once called “the shadow government,” but no longer in the shadows, I believe, are preparing us all, and they are getting us ready for the rule of “The Beast” and the one world totalitarian rule of government (see Revelation 13:1-18).

So, know what the Scriptures teach are the signs of these last days before the return of our Lord when this beast is moving into position to form this One World Order (tyrannical rule of law). And please don’t believe any humans in any positions of power and influence just because of who they are, or for their popularity, or because they are a Republican or a Democrat, or just because they say they believe in Jesus Christ. For so many of them are lying to us. Deception abounds! Test everyone! Pray for discernment!!

If you are on social media at all, or even on Christian discussion sites, please know that there is fakery everywhere. So much of what is being posted on these sites are absolute lies and fabrications, not to be trusted at face value only. So much is now AI generated, and thus is faked but made to look as though it is real. Just because you see it or read it or listen to it, it does not make it real, and it does not mean it is the truth. So much is Hollywood produced but made to look like it is really happening. Pray! Pray! Pray!

Basically, we need to be people of God who put our hope and trust in God alone and not in other human beings. For example, just because a doctor or a pastor says for you to do something, it doesn’t mean that it is for your good. Do the homework. Read the side effects of medications before you agree to using them. Many meds are worse for you than your illnesses. And read the Scriptures in their full and appropriate biblical context. Don’t trust a pastor to tell you the truth. Test all the spirits to see if they are of God.

And then look to God alone as your only hope and your only true source of truth and wisdom and direction. Look to him for your healing and for guidance in your decision making. Don’t just take the words of another human being who could be leading you in the wrong direction. Learn to test everything and to pray through everything and to seek God for your answers. Then let God be the only one who gets your absolute devotion and allegiance and loyalty and trust. For so many humans will steer you wrong.

Testing the Spirits: [Matthew 7:15-23; Matthew 24:11-14; John 10:1-15; Romans 16:17-19; 2 Corinthians 11:3,13-15; Ephesians 4:11-16; Philippians 3:2; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 1 Timothy 6:3-10; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 1 John 4:1-6; Jude 1:1-25]

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1


As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

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World Domination, Tyranny, and Oppression
An Original Work / October 11, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Discussion Andronicus and Junias Apostles.

Most of the arguments I have heard that there can only be 13 Apostles comes from cessationists, trying to end elements of the Bible to whittle away at callings and gifts. If they can start casting doubt on the ongoing validity of one thing in scripture they can cast doubt on anything else. That, and they hate the people that they can categorize New Apostolic Reformation, so if they can call contemporary apostles heretics they can discredit them with one accusation. And people like Sproul and MacArthur made a lot of money holding anti-Holly Spirit rallies. Those 3rd resort homes don't pay for themselves
NAR is like a conspiracy theory, taken too seriously. Tracing teachers back to contact with C Peter Wagner who being a lecturer, had many students. And drew his ideas from the best churches, and their contacts are then mistaken for NAR...
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THE GREAT CONTROVERSY in Baltimore, Maryland

2 Timothy 2:15-16 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Seems straight-forward to me.
Have you followed your own advice?
Do you continue to study Church history and doctrine, or have you believed you have arrived at the conclusion?

Do you read writings that disagree with your viewpoint or just read those that reinforce your position?
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A Brilliant Perspective of Creation vs Evolution

Is there a primary source that demonstrates this? I can't find any evidence that he rejected Darwin.
Hi Sfs, pardon my delay. It is generally known that Maxwell did not believe in Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection. I read it in a letter of James Maxwell that I cannot find right now(but I give a MIT link where you will find the primary sources.) But we shouldn't be shocked by James Clerk Maxwell, the evangelical Christian who began the modern era of physics(according to Einstein) not accepting Darwin's theory. The truly brilliant scientists such as Michael Faraday(the evangelical who invented the idea of "fields" which underlies most physics today), Maxwell, Werner Heisenberg(the devout Protestant who won the Nobel for creating Quantum Mechanic/physics) and Einstein realized that yes science is an amazing tool; but science cannot -ever- explain the physical laws(working) of the universe. Albert Einstein said that even his great theory of General Relativity will be shown to be false one day. Read that again-for if you are not shocked by Einstein's statement then you have not really understood it.

Einstein was realistic. Too many put too much trust in science. There is CFmember (the Barbarian-sorry I can't reply to you directly) on this thread who told me that I must "accept" Darwinian evolution and science. No I will never will because I too am very realistic!


There are many reasons for an absolute limitation on all science to understand the physical world. Most of you know the following because it was even on the Christian children's website Christian Answers a while ago which really made me happy.
Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem was the one mentioned on that Christian site, so I will start here. Godel is considered one of the top mathematicians and the top logician in history. Many leading physicists of the past and present admit that Godel's monumental discovery ends science's quest to attain all physical knowledge. The late physicist Stephen Hawking gave a speech on Godel's Incompleteness Theorem's effect on science many years ago. In it Hawking actually brings up supernatural reasons (he has to because science is now limited) for explaining problems' in physics, but he then dismisses them; but it shows how mysterious a world we live in.
It is a short read:
"Godel and the End of Physics"[science]
Stephen Hawking Estate
http://yclept.ucdavis.edu/course/215c.S17/TEX/GodelAndEndOfPhysics.pdf

(Btw Godel's Incompleteness Theorem proves also sadly that we will always have computer malware.)
A bit about the evangelical Christian who ushered in the modern era of physics[ from MIT Professor Ian Hutchinson]
James Clerk Maxwell and the Christian Proposition

If I may say that Christians if they choose to, should be the best in every field of science as we once were. When viewed as an incredible tool- but still merely a tool-, science can complement the Christian life. It's when we fail to see science's inherent limitation in answering questions about the physical universe that people misguidedly see science as a sort of truth or even the truth that one has to "accept". Science has nothing to say-or ever will- about existential questions when it has been proven that all science is essentially incapable even explaining physical phenomena. Read that again please. Science cannot exactly explain physical phenomena ever. The universe is indeterministic(unless you are God)- exactly opposite what some scientists had hoped.
The famous 50 year old
Bell Inequality Theorem which also shows the universe is indeterministic was "proven"(nothing can being 100% proven by the scientific method to be clear) recently and the 2022 Nobel Physics Prize was given for it. Remember biology-especially evolutionary biology- and chemistry is determined by quantum field theory physics. Science is merely a tool and Christians can be the best at it as we were in the near past. But Christians need not fear science because science is powerless to fully explain any type of knowledge- even physical laws. Science is exactly like the screwdriver in your bottom kitchen drawer. Exactly. It is a necessary tool we Christians should learn to use well.
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Dear non-Christian friends, and people of all wonderful races across the earth, the only way to get absolute truth and knowledge is to ask Christ Jesus or His heavenly Father for the Holy Spirit. About 80 percent of the greatest scientists in history were baptized by the Spirit of Christ and were saved. Jesus said "Ask and you will receive." Please just try-you will not be disappointed. It is too late once you're dead. Eternal life in heaven is a free gift of infinite value but like any gift , one has to accept it during this very short earthly life Neither. I, or any other Christian, wants anyone else to miss out on an eternity of joy and very interesting times! It is a free gift after all. I say humbly and with good intentions for your well-being, it is the height of illogical thinking not to accept a gift of infinite value my dear non-believer friend. At the very least consider it-thank you!
For the youth and those guests peeking in from cyberspace:
OT event's True Images from 2700 years ago. Free for Sunday Schools, Youth studies, VBS etc. They were discovered in the proven ruins of Nineveh.
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10/7/23 Anniversary Hamas Attacked Israel

I consider abortion a complex topic. Without any qualifying factors, I consider abortion to be tragic and wrong. But no, I don't compare abortion to the deliberate murder of children.

Growing babies in the womb are murdered during abortion. So yes, it's a deliberate murder of growing babies.
Abortion isn't a complex topic. It's an ungodly topic. No Christian should support the killing of growing babies in the womb.

Was the murder of children in Israel by the hamas' attack on 10/7/23 wrong?
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

So your not disputing the researchers. I am a bit confused now. If your disputing me how does this dispute the researchers. Perhaps thats your problem. That your hyper focused on me and not the evidence. I know I am not the best at trying to relay the researchers findings. But it is their work I am trying to highlight.

So therefore a good researcher will first get to understand that context by taking time to look at the whole article or video. The onus is on you to investigate the full article in its context before making and further comments about what the summary I made is about. Its just basic good epistemics.

More logical fallacies lol. What you gonna do now that I am saying your complaints about me pointing out the fallacies is just more logical fallacies.

This is what I have noticed. That most of your posts have been attacks on people. If its not the researchers are amateurs and whackos or whatever derogative names you use. Its me lol. Anyone who is so concerned to come on a social media site and name call others is obviously more concerned about other stuff besides the actual topic. The cold hard data.

Like I said demeaning people just shows that its personal lol. Its more than just data. You seem to be morally outraged over numbers. I am not calling you names and it does not bother me. But it seems to bother you.

And I already did. I have throughout this thread linked everything that they have put out. Maybe theres a couple more but they will be repeats of the same. You have to remember these tests and articles (most of them) have happened only in the last 12 months. Theres not a lot out there. I have given you everything lol. Its all there for you to investigate.

But back up just a minute. I think your missing the point. Lets clarify things.

Do you think some sort of lathing was used or not. Because all this complaints about tiny mislaignments ect is not going to change the fact that there is at least a level of symmetry and circularity that required some sort of lathing.

I can see what your doing. Your trying to introduce the doubt that the precision was not so great and that there was a wobble in the lathing and thus we can say the lathing was basic like the Bore stick technology so a logical explanation.

But lets just start with whether there was a lathe involved fullstop. Or no lathe was involved at all and these vases were made fully by shaping the roundness and symmetry by pounders and chisels and then rubbing.
You just don't get it, all the issues have been addressed ad nauseum and this latest serving can be described by an analogy.

I ask you what the time is, you respond by giving me the history of the downfall of the Roman Empire. I repeat what is the time and you give the same answer and so on.
You are adamant I didn't ask you what the time was but it was about the Roman Empire.

So the question becomes whether your responses are by accident or design.
If by accident you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, by design you are a lying troll.

Either way it doesn't involve personal attacks, it is based on your behaviour in these threads.
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Trump ends annual report on U.S. hunger amid rising food insecurity

Elections have consequences. Everybody that voted for a white convicted felon rather than a black woman will own this.
Sadly innocent people pay for this. From I'm getting he care more for other countries. Than his own country .
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Are you spiritually sensitive?

what do you mean specifically?
By the way, I forgot to mention, he goes to church. we discussed it a bit. As well, we are to do like Jesus did, eat with sinners. Socialise sinners. And be genuine friends not just to win them. But be the light. As well I have made clear I can`t make it. If there ever is something it`ll be a meal.

You’re grasping at straws to find the meaning for your experience. Which isn’t consistent with the Lord in that respect. The people who exhibit the qualities in the link you shared often have the gift of discernment if they’re believers. And when it occurs you know. Some people experience the spiritual realm through their sight, hearing, smell, touch, or taste. It’s more than noticing a presence or detecting something’s amiss. You’ll know what it is. The Holy Spirit will tell you Himself or drop the truth in your spirit. Which is a word of knowledge.

Many gifts work in harmony with one another and it‘s common to have related talents depending on your calling. You’ve received three replies to the thread and we’re all aligned. The gift in itself is good but the altar determines its strength. Just because we have an ability doesn’t mean we’re operating at a 100%. It’s like playing golf. You can hit the ball but directing the shot takes practice. We have to build up our skills to be Tiger Woods. We can’t do what does in the beginning.

~bella
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AND HOW CHRIST FORMED THE BODY OF CHRIST !!

If you can't see it, I'll stop responding. I'm not here to waist my time.

Aristarkos
AND I see. perfectly. so do not waste your time and will always help. those to understand what I write and refuse to. r

leave out words from the Greek Text , SORRY !!

AND you never did address the OP. ??

dan p
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Are we born again by loving God and others? Please share scriptures and thoughts. Thank you.

Is this code? I'm not understanding the post.
Is this code? I'm not understanding the post.
Is this code? I'm not understanding the post.
And if you see a verb is in. the NOMINATIVE CASE it means it. is the subject of that. verb

The AORIST TENSE ,means it. this. the simple past tense

The IMPERFECT TENSE , is. the continuous action. in. the past time

The PERFECT TENSE , means. , involves the. past and the present
'
The FUTURE TENSE means in. the FUTURE

Just go the BLUE LETTER BIBLE or. to BIBLE HUB. and you can do just. what I do also !!

AND YOU CAN. , GOOGLE any tense , case at any time and if you have and questions be glad to. to explain at any

time and you will learn Greek words and Learn all the Tenses and MOODS. and I. write you. will see that some

do leave out words and it will harder for anyone , does not quote or leave words out. the Greek text !!

And if you go to. the HEBREW TEXT. there are only two tenses the PERFECT and the IMPERFECT. TENSES !!

dan p
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The Schumer Shutdown

Sure. Being sacked is victimless crime. Being sacked has a significant impact on people’s lives. Especially if they have had that job for many years.
And that makes it a "crime"?
Is it a felony or a misdemeanor? My previous employers were never charged either way. But then again, I never thought to call the police when I got the memo.
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