Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Cross or Crucifix
- By ViaCrucis
- General Theology
- 1 Replies
The plain Latin cross is primarily a "simplified" crucifix. Christianity has a long history of different cruciform symbols with various degrees of meaning.
One could see the use of a plain Latin cross as a vacant cross--the Son of God taken down from the cross, laid in the tomb, and having risen from the dead. And that is a beautiful symbol. I love that symbolism.
The crucifix specifically calls our mind to Christ's passion and death, His work of atonement. Which is why it often features prominently in Lutheran contexts as Lutherans see ourselves as "Cross people". Luther once said in his 28 Theses of the Heidelberg Disputations that a true theologian does not understand God in His invisible qualities of glory, power, and wisdom; but in His visible revelation: In the Incarnate Jesus Christ who suffered and died for us. To know God in God's suffering on the cross is the mark of a true theologian: I.e. God is not defined chiefly in abstract concepts, but rather is defined by Himself in His Word Incarnate, in the Incarnate Person of Jesus Christ our Lord.
In the East a more common symbol is the Christus Rex:
The Risen, Glorified Christ superimposed on the cross showing His victory over death and the grave. Christ is King, the King who rose and has conquered sin, death, hell, and the devil and is ascended and seated at the right hand of the Father. The Crucified-Risen King who lives forever.
All of these are beautiful symbols of Christian faith. Though I do admit that the traditional western crucifix is often what resonates most deeply with me--as I am drawn visually into meditation and contemplation over the Savior's loving Self-offering of Himself for me, a wretch and sinner. That I do not know God in power or wisdom, in sagacious philosophy and human reason, but rather I know God in Christ Crucified. He died for me, an ugly unlovely sinner, deserving of death and hell.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 - 2:1-5
One could see the use of a plain Latin cross as a vacant cross--the Son of God taken down from the cross, laid in the tomb, and having risen from the dead. And that is a beautiful symbol. I love that symbolism.
The crucifix specifically calls our mind to Christ's passion and death, His work of atonement. Which is why it often features prominently in Lutheran contexts as Lutherans see ourselves as "Cross people". Luther once said in his 28 Theses of the Heidelberg Disputations that a true theologian does not understand God in His invisible qualities of glory, power, and wisdom; but in His visible revelation: In the Incarnate Jesus Christ who suffered and died for us. To know God in God's suffering on the cross is the mark of a true theologian: I.e. God is not defined chiefly in abstract concepts, but rather is defined by Himself in His Word Incarnate, in the Incarnate Person of Jesus Christ our Lord.
In the East a more common symbol is the Christus Rex:
The Risen, Glorified Christ superimposed on the cross showing His victory over death and the grave. Christ is King, the King who rose and has conquered sin, death, hell, and the devil and is ascended and seated at the right hand of the Father. The Crucified-Risen King who lives forever.
All of these are beautiful symbols of Christian faith. Though I do admit that the traditional western crucifix is often what resonates most deeply with me--as I am drawn visually into meditation and contemplation over the Savior's loving Self-offering of Himself for me, a wretch and sinner. That I do not know God in power or wisdom, in sagacious philosophy and human reason, but rather I know God in Christ Crucified. He died for me, an ugly unlovely sinner, deserving of death and hell.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31 - 2:1-5
Upvote
0
Tit for Tat Tariffs - The US versus the World
- American Politics
- 788 Replies
Got it. Thanks.Different funding source.
Trump rebrands Congressionally-approved troop housing subsidy as ‘warrior dividend’ bonus
More than $2.9 billion in reconciliation funds was allocated to beef up troop housing allowances. Now it’s being used for $1,776 checks.www.defenseone.com
This tweet and the comments said its a shell game.
Upvote
0
What happens spiritually that makes us born again?
- By Dave...
- Salvation (Soteriology)
- 65 Replies
Hey Bill
It's been busy, sorry for the delay.
Bill, I believe that you're reading more into what Spurgeon is said than what he is meant. I could be wrong, but I don't think that he meant that the way that you're taking it. One reason is the quote that I provided. That would be a direct contradiction. Though, people do change their minds. We all have our learning curves on record stored on the internet for all to see with some of the same discrepancies. But consider that the verse he's quoting is also misunderstood and taken way beyond the text by many, even still today. I think it's safe to say that Spurgeon meant what he said, he just didn't mean it in the way that you're taking it. I'll explain....
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
This passage is often quoted as proof that one must be born again to believe. I think that mistranslation was pointed out very eloquently by Dr. Sam Storms. I believe that he is one of the consensus who believes that the new birth precedes faith. I thank him for his honesty.
Dr. Storms wrote:
"John says in 5:1 that whoever is presently believing in Christ has in the past been born or begotten of God. I.e., a present action of believing is evidence of a past experience of begetting. Is John then saying that new birth or regeneration always precedes and causes saving faith in Christ? Although I believe regeneration (new birth) does precede and cause faith, I do not believe that is John’s point here.
When one examines these texts where the terminology of regeneration is used, one finds that John is concerned with describing the consequences or fruit of the new birth:
Question: “How may I know that regeneration has occurred? How may I know if someone has been born again?”
Answer: “That person will not practice sin (3:9; 5:18). That person will practice righteousness (2:29). That person will love the brethren (4:7). That person will believe in Christ (5:1). And that person will overcome the world (5:4).”
John’s point is simply that these activities are the evidence of the new birth and hence of salvation. Their absence is the evidence that regeneration has not taken place. He makes this point, not because he wants to demonstrate the cause/effect relationship between regeneration and faith, but because he wants to provide the church with tests by which to discern between true and spurious “believers.”" – Dr. Sam Storms
-------------
The same John in his Gospels wrote this as the purpose of his Gospel. John 20:31 (so they may believe)
"but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."
And later, John wrote this as the purpose of his Epistle, 1 John 5:13 ( to believers, so that they may know they are saved)
" These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."
This verse, 1 John 5:1, if we do not go beyond the text, is really not in conflict with those who believe that being born again is the result of faith. It IS going beyond the text to use it as a proof text to, as Dr. Sam Storms wrote, "demonstrate the cause/effect relationship between regeneration and faith"
It's really simple. If you believe, you have been born again. Why? Because the initial result of believing is to be born again. If you are presently believing then you have previously been born again when that faith started.
The quote above by DR. Sam Storms was taken from this link
1 John 5:1 Does Not Teach Pre-Faith Regeneration
In an earlier post <here> we presented many passages which clearly indicate the ordo salutis (the order of salvation), as expressed by the apostle John when he wrote, “I have written th…
soteriology101.com
I think Spurgeon is saying the same thing. He's just confirming faith as an evidence of an existing regeneration and not trying to prove a cause/effect relationship.
1 John 5:1, John 1:12-13, and John 3:3, none of these actually say what is claimed by todays reformed believers. Yet they build a complete theology based on their definition of mainly these three verses and redefine the Bible with it. These are assumptions, built on assumptions. And when you look to find the foundation of what all these assumptions are built on, there is only more assumptions. Added to that, there is a complete disregard for the nature of the relationship between man and the Holy Spirit from the OT, to the NT. The promises made. The transition at the birth of the Church when these promises began to be realized. These are all ignored.
God is responsible for our changed heart, the moment our life begins in Him. I think that Scripture is clear that the life in question begins when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That's a problem if the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is received as a result of faith (Galatians 3:2-3). So what motivates that faith? Is it the flesh? Is it God, by other means? To solve that problem, there are those who have the Holy Spirit entering a believer before faith, thus making that life begin before faith. It's an easy fix, but that idea is nowhere found in Scripture and is in fact hostel to Scripture. This is what Spurgeon was criticizing in the quote that I supplied earlier.
Also, the passage that you quoted Romans 8:29, I started a thread on that. In short, it's speaking of OT true believers, the sheep, given to the Son by the Father, Whom He shall not lose one of them, already declared righteous, these were already known by the Father and predestined to be conformed to Christlikeness (NT faith). If you're interested, here's a link.
"The Meaning of Foreknew in Romans 8:29"
"The Meaning of Foreknew in Romans 8:29" You may ask why this is in the dispensationalism forum. It's because it has everything to do with the transition from the old Testament to the New Testament. I copied this out of a book that I once owned called "The Five Points of Calvinism, Defined...
www.christianforums.com
Dave
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Upvote
0
House passes Republican health care bill
- By eleos1954
- News & Current Events (Articles Required)
- 14 Replies
It will have to pass the senate ... I'm not confident it will
House passes Republican health care bill that does not include extension of Obamacare subsidies
The bill, dubbed the Lower Health Care Premiums for All Americans Act, was passed in a 216-211 vote, with just Kentucky GOP Rep. Thomas Massie voting with Democrats against the legislation.justthenews.com
Finally a bill that will actually cut costs for patients instead of making insurance companies wealthier.
Upvote
0
Family fears expulsion. Iranian Christian family fears arrest. Pastor gunned down, killed.
- By LoricaLady
- Persecuted Christians
- 0 Replies
A Christian widow and certain family members in Laos are facing expulsion from their village in northern Laos for their faith. Chan, 63, first welcomed the message of the gospel in February 2025, hoping to be healed from liver cancer. She and the four children and two grandchildren who live with her came to faith in Christ on the same day. Physical healing has not come, yet they love the Lord and have continued to grow stronger in their faith, attending worship services every week and listening to Christian radio programs. Read More.
Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey
Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation
[8] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Christian family.
The Turkish government has made it increasingly difficult for Iranian Christian refugees to remain in the country. Iranians do not need a visa to visit Turkiye, so some Iranian converts to Christianity fled there in recent years seeking refuge. One Iranian Christian family currently living in Turkiye faces the constant threat of being deported back to Iran. In 2017, the couple was arrested in Iran along with their entire house church before fleeing the country. If they were sent back to Iran, they would almost certainly be apprehended upon arrival and their children taken to be raised by strangers. Read More.Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan
Pastor Gunned Down, Killed
[9] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Pastor's family.
On Friday, Dec. 5, 2025, Pastor Malik Salamat was taking his teenage daughter to school in Gujranwala when assailants gunned him down in front of his home. Immediately rushed to a hospital, he did not survive. Pastor Salamat had previously been attacked for his ministry work in another city and had moved to Gujranwala with his family, hoping to find a safer location. Read More.
Accidental double post. Sorry.
- By LoricaLady
- Persecuted Christians
- 0 Replies
-
A Christian widow and certain family members in Laos are facing expulsion from their village in northern Laos for their faith. Chan, 63, first welcomed the message of the gospel in February 2025, hoping to be healed from liver cancer. She and the four children and two grandchildren who live with her came to faith in Christ on the same day. Physical healing has not come, yet they love the Lord and have continued to grow stronger in their faith, attending worship services every week and listening to Christian radio programs. Read More. Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey
Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation
[8] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Christian family.
The Turkish government has made it increasingly difficult for Iranian Christian refugees to remain in the country. Iranians do not need a visa to visit Turkiye, so some Iranian converts to Christianity fled there in recent years seeking refuge. One Iranian Christian family currently living in Turkiye faces the constant threat of being deported back to Iran. In 2017, the couple was arrested in Iran along with their entire house church before fleeing the country. If they were sent back to Iran, they would almost certainly be apprehended upon arrival and their children taken to be raised by strangers. Read More.Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan
Pastor Gunned Down, Killed
[9] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Pastor's family.
On Friday, Dec. 5, 2025, Pastor Malik Salamat was taking his teenage daughter to school in Gujranwala when assailants gunned him down in front of his home. Immediately rushed to a hospital, he did not survive. Pastor Salamat had previously been attacked for his ministry work in another city and had moved to Gujranwala with his family, hoping to find a safer location. Read More.
