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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Prosperity Theology

I fear many who identify as Christians aren't actually Christians. For example, many times their belief is in their wealth.
But I guess if we want to be generous & trust 'Christians' in table is accurate, I've noticed Christians are often quite wise spending their money. A lot of us aren't interested in the world's pursuits. I've noticed a lot of non-believers, they're never satisfied w/ what they have so they're constantly buying more & more, even if they don't have much money to begin w/.
What drives down the other religions' %ages is the money is often in the hands of the powerful few. That's why the per capita for the other religions is lower then Christianity but the Total is right w/ or higher then Christianity.
Prosperity Theology is wrong b/c God has called his people to different circumstances so we can know the power is in him & not wealth.
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Pray for People Battling Cancer (3)

God is entering into the space of people who are (or have family/friends) battling cancer right now and who have posted on here about it. His great love is going out to them. Helping to heal them. Giving them an encounter with Him. Helping them to know that He is real, and that He delights in them. He is giving them His peace. And if they are going to pass, He is letting them know the beauty they are about to step into.
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Why do people hate ICE...

@rjs330 - this seems to be the link you were requesting...
This doesn't support what was stated. They aren't saying they want no immigration. They want seriously controlled immigration.

I do too. Speeding up rhe process isn't what we want. We want a controlled immigration which may include severely limited immigration including a possibilility of no immigration until we get illegal immigration under control.

If 100,000 people apply for visas or citizenship or whatever and they are ALL good people with no records or no supporters of terrorism or terror regimes etc, doesn't mean we have to take them.
What we want is people we we really need. Ones that will be beneficial to this country with skills that we need. People that wont take jobs away from Americans but will supplement jobs where qualified Americans can't be found.

Its not anti-immigration where they don't want immigrants just cause they don't want immigrants.

Heavily and severely controlled immigration is what is needed.
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Blunted emotions might be starting

I do think that the blunting could be a defense mechanism against completely falling apart.
I think you may be right.
We can only handle so much intense emotion, and then a reprieve from it is good.

It's mysterious how it goes, but the body does seem to know how to 'take care' of us in emotionally challenging times.
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Great Music From the 60s

"Hush" ~ Deep Purple (1968)

(Timestamp 2:45 + ... still dynamite stuff!)

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Deep Purple - Inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: 2016 ....

"Deep Purple were the harbingers of hard rock, paving the way for metal groups with their breakneck style. Despite their rotating lineup, Deep Purple could be counted on for consistency and innovation in equal measure. They drew inspiration from both orchestral music and harder rocking sounds to create riffs that left an indelible mark on music history."
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Bowing Head at Mass

I only bow during that one part of the Nicene Creed. I see some people bowing during a section of the Gloria. There is bowing when one of the altar boys comes to the congregation to wave incense. Hmm. I might be guilty of not bowing at something that I should be, lol. Oh, if I'm second in line in Communion, I bow before I become first in line.
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Yes, but as I went on to argue, that's not because the lexical content of ἑλκύω requires it. The guarantee arises from the syntax of the verse. John identifies the person raised (κἀγὼ ἀναστήσω αὐτόν) as the same person drawn (ἐὰν μὴ… ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν). The final clause is adding a promise about the very one whose inability has been removed.

So while ἑλκύω itself does not mean "irresistibly bring to faith" (the verb does denote an effectual movement, but it is from inability to ability), John's syntax makes clear that the one thus enabled is the one Christ will raise. In other words, the irresistibility is not in the semantics of ἑλκύω (which is why those arguing for a "softer" understanding of ἑλκύω are not even touching the Calvinist argument); it is in the way John ties the drawn person to the resurrected believer.
I agree with you, however I believe the word unto me denotes the certainty of conversion. Jesus said He will draw all unto Himself upon being lifted up, there is no chance or possibility about it, it's a done deal. Same with Jn 6:44
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Stepping from Fog into Sunlight: What is your "Holy Ground" moment?

Steve, that line “penetrates my very being to the shadow of my soul” lands deep—I totally get it.
David’s harp did the same for Saul: one strum and the tormenting spirit lost its grip, because the music carried something (or Someone) bigger than the room.
I’m wired deeply creative too, and whenever I hand the work back to God that same “doorway” stops being escape and becomes embrace—like the Spirit slips inside the art and hands us a glimpse of the real country we’re made for.
Would love to hear the rest of Shadow of My Soul when you finish it; until then, keep letting that far-away Voice call you (and all who believe and trust Christ) home.
Yeah I will try and find what I have written or finish it. I lost intereswt for a while but started up again. I think we all need some creative outlet. I always think getting back to nature can also bring that spiritual aspect and gives inspiration.

Nothing like gazing up at the night sky out in the country where there is no light pollution. Then you certainly realise theres something beyond. I think this is our spiritual side or our consciousness of God through phenomenal experiences that takes us to this place where our soul exists.
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When Two or Three are Gathered Together

It provides a way for encouragement for like minded people. Strength in numbers (so to speak)
The Swdish minister Kjell Sjoberg noted that there is more power in the prayers of a praying group of Christians than in a single Christian praying. In his own words "When the Church prays as one, heaven responds with fire". Note though, that this is when the Church "prays as one". I believe that this is because when a group of Christians are all inwardly convicted concerning what to pray, it is really Jesus who is praying through (we might dare to say "as") the group.
This does not mean that some people find individual approaches to God beneficial. But maybe such people (and, I confess, I tend this way myself) might be associated with (what are for them) the "wrong" groups. For instance, I would be a Quaker if there were some Christ-centred Friends in my area!
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Do you think belief in the eternal snuff out is somehow morally better?

Didn't God say "I kill and I make ALIVE?"
God does both. Jesus talks about the resurrection of the Dead from their Graves.

Why would people need to be raised from the dead from there grave if they were already alive? John 5:28-29
Why do people believe that they are alive on the first day after their death, when Jesus says they are raised from the dead on the last day? John 6:40, 6:44
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SO HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE SAVED ??

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. NKJV

Above is our OT removal of sins. If we depend on the OT rules for salvation the blood of bulls and goats, is our purification, The only reason God accepted their blood is because those offering them believed God would send someone to save them from their sins. They looked forward to the coming of the Messiah.

Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek," 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. NKJV

Jesus became the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him. The author, creator or writer, of eternal salvation.

Hebrews 9:16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. NKJV

Jesus wrote His testament, the New Testament, with His blood when He was crucified. Be sure to note that it is a New Testament, the New Testament, that God promised in the OT. It went into effect when Jesus died.

Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. NKJV

The OT is obsolete. The true Israelis are now under the NT as well as anyone who believes in Jesus. An obsolete covenant will not provide salvation. In the NT we do not look forward from the OT.


Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

Obsolete covenant laws cannot make anyone righteous who believe in Jesus. Anyone who claims righteousness from the law, does not believe in Jesus. By the NT rules they will not be saved by trusting the OT laws.

John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. NKJV


Jesus being the author of the New Testament wrote the commandments we are to obey. The first and greatest commandment is that we believe in Him and we must abide, remain in Him, to be fruitful. If we do not stay in Him, we will not be fruitful and will be cast out, by the Father, and burnt.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NKJV


Jesus also gave us another new commandment. We are to love other disciples as Jesus loved us.

Now as children of God we are expected, to the best we can, to be like Jesus. If we do that we will continue to live physically. The Father wants us to further Jesus' kingdom, to do that we should resemble Jesus.


Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. NKJV

From the white throne some will go to live on the new earth and some go the lake of fire. Do they burn for an eternity? As Jesus stated in Matthew 25: 41 the lake of fire was made for the spiritual being who rebelled. What happens to flesh and blood in the lake of fire I do not know. I do know that flesh and blood cannot live there.

Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord. 24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." NKJV

Verse 22 states this is the new earth and new heavens after the white throne judgment. Verse 24 does say corpses, or dead bodies, of the men who have transgressed against God. So, Hades will torment them, and the lake of fire may kill them and leave their bodies intact.

I say some may burn eternally and some will be dead.

So, I say all one needs do to avoid going to Hades and the white throne judgment is to “keep believing in Jesus and to love Jesus' disciples as Jesus loved them.”



Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." NKJV

We can be sure we are saved when we are sons of God. Those who put to death are sons of God. To do that we must accept discipline.

Hebrews 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV

If we do not put to death the sins of the flesh, we have not accepted discipline.




God does not lie. The Israelis were His children prior to Jesus' coming. If you drop down a couple of verses to;

Romans 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. NKJV


They were cut off because of their unbelief. If we do not continue to believe in Him. We also will be cut off.



Yes, we can be 100% sure of our salvation if we are putting to death sins of the flesh.

John 10:4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." NKJV

We are His sheep. His sheep are the only ones who follow His voice to be disciplined. If we are without discipline, we are illegitimate and not sons. Illegitimate children have no inheritance in His kingdom.

So salvation to you requires faith + loving others and avoid sinning?
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The Significance of the Temple Curtain Being Torn in Two

Rom 11:
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
HI. Bob. , just asking , are saying that we the BODY. of CHRIST is or WAS and OLIVE TREE ?

dan p
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What happened in the past has an effect on us today, all because Sin is in the world.

People make the mistake of trying to separate them selves from history. They think that because these events happened so long ago, that they have no bearing on what's happening today. Had not the depression of 1929 happened, we would not have the safeguards in place today to prevent the devastation of an economic crash. Our recent economic crash called Black Tuesday was nothing compared to the crash of 1929. Had not Jesus died on the cross some 2000yrs. ago, there would be no such thing as faith in God and repentance from sin. People would still be getting stoned to death on the spot for transgressing God's law. So, what happened in the past has an effect on us today and the one thing that happened in the past that has a profound effect on us is man's iniquity. In the days of Adam, his iniquity brought death to himself and all mankind. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12)

In the days of Noah, God destroyed man from the face of the earth because of his wickedness (iniquity). "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said,” I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." (Genesis 6:5-13). As a result of Noah's righteousness, only he, his wife, his three sons and their wives were saved from destruction.

Now, in these the last days, God has said that because of the overspreading of iniquity; (iniquity is one of the signs and factors of the end of the world). “And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, “See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.” And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately saying,” Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”; “Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold, but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the entire world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (St. Matthew 24:1-3 & 12-14)

So lets take an in depth look at iniquity, its origin and effect on man throughout history. in·iq·ui·ty (î-nîk¹wî-tê) noun 1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness. 2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.

Jesus was speaking to some of the Jews that believed in him and he told them that, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They in turn told Jesus that they were Abraham's seed and that they were in bondage to no man. (Even though at this time the Romans were in control of Jerusalem and Herod the Idumeaen was the ruler). How say to us that we shall be made free?

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you; whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God." Jesus said unto them, “If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (St. John 8:31-32, 34-44)

Before Satan became known as the Devil, his name was Lucifer, which means light bearer. He was the Angel in charge of bringing God's truth. The prophet Isaiah asked this question of Lucifer, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations?" (Isaiah 14:12)

Lets take a look and see how bold the Devil is and what he controls , since the days of Jesus. Lets go into Luke 4: 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. 5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

So we see that satan uses his power with the kingdom of the earth. Now think about what we just read, the Devil says, "all the Kingdom are his", and that he is worshiped by those to whom he gives power to. Now, if he asked the Lord to worship him, while he was in the flesh; what about the rest of us? Let's go into Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Think about it, how does he deceive the whole world? Which means me, you and everyone else has been deceive at some point for the scriptures did not say he deceive some of the world, or part of the world, but the whole world. Let's take a look and see how Satan used his power with these kingdoms. Let's go into Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. This places are the church, brothers and sisters. Let's go into Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves? 53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Did you notice it was the church people who came to arrest Jesus? They did the bidding for there "father" the Devil.

NBC: Gov. Abbott asks USDA to approve waiver banning junk food purchases with SNAP benefits

I think you'll find that there are 9 more ounces of meat in the nuggets than in the fresh chicken. That will feed at least one more child, if not two, depending on their age.

Doing the math, I found that the package of nuggets was $3.48 less than the same 29 ozs of fresh chicken. That's a huge difference in most families, and for a single parent, it's the difference between a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread.

Maybe my math is wrong....

I'm a vegan now, but that's pretty much how I remember it working out.

I try to eat healthier but I'm under no illusions how hard that is for most people who aren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth, or how much food gets class coded.
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What are you currently watching?

Noryang: Deadly Sea. A 2023 Korean film about the December 16, 1598 Battle of Noryang. It was the last battle of the Imjin War (the Japanese invasion of Joseon (Korea) by Toyotomi Hideyoshi). The Joseon navy was led by Admiral Yi Sun Sin who was killed toward the end of the battle (similar to Horatio Nelson's death at Trafalgar). The Ming dynasty also sent naval forces to assist Joseon. With the defeat of their Navy and with the death of Yoyotomi Hideyoshi Tokugawa Ieyasu could take control of Japan and end the invasion of the Korean peninsula (Imjin War). It would also give Tokugawa Ieyasu the path to becoming Shogun after the Battle of Sekigahara on October 21, 1600.

Admiral Yi Sun Sin used a ship referred to as a "Turtle Ship" or geobukseon. The ship was heavily armored including an armored roof. the ship used spikes, arquebus shooters and cannons as its weapons. It was a strong ship used in the coastal waters of the Korean peninsula. Supporting ships with open decks often were armed with the hwacha, which was essentially a early and very crude version of a multiple-launch rocket system.
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Worried about receiving cliches but I'll post anyway

Stewardship Prayer

Dear Heavenly Father,
My parish is composed of people like me;
I help make it what it is.

It will be friendly, if I am.
Its pews will be filled, if I help fill them.
It will do great work, if I work.
It will make generous gifts to many causes,
if I am a generous giver.
It will bring other people into its worship and fellowship,
if I invite and bring them.

It will be a parish of loyalty and love,
of fearlessness and faith,
and a parish with a noble spirit,
if I, who make it what it is, am filled with these same things.

Therefore, with Your help, O God,
I shall dedicate myself to the task of being all things
that I want my parish to be.

Amen.
That's really nice, you seem to have a good prayer arsenal.
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