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Yarddog · 2025-12-13T21:52:40-0600

Michie said:
Conservative podcaster Megyn Kelly slams 'genuinely wrong' pick

Time magazine is facing backlash from one of conservative media’s biggest voices over its decision to snub Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk as its “Person of the Year” despite Kirk’s death marking the first major political assassination in the U.S. since the 1960s.

Instead, the century-old magazine gave its annual award to a collective of tech titans leading the artificial intelligence (AI) revolution, framing the year as a tipping point when the technology "roared into view" with irreversible momentum.

Time's announcement, unveiled Thursday, celebrated the "Architects of AI" as the magazine's 2025 honorees, with a reimagined version of the iconic 1930s photograph "Lunch Atop a Skyscraper" as its cover art. Replacing the classic photo’s hard-hatted construction workers were eight suited tech leaders perched on a beam overlooking New York City: Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, AMD CEO Lisa Su, Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis, Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei, and AI pioneer Fei-Fei Li, founder of World Labs.

Continued below.

Time magazine snubs Charlie Kirk, names AI 'architects' as 'Person of the Year'

Time magazine is facing backlash from one of conservative media s biggest voices over its decision to snub Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk as its Person of the Year despite Kirk s death

www.christianpost.com

I'd have to agree with Time. AI may be the biggest development since the internet.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T21:47:27-0600

Desk trauma said:
Gherkins.

Brits are way out of line.

Dale · 2025-12-13T21:44:50-0600

lismore said:
Hello Dale. Good to hear from you. So the age of the earth given by Creationists and the age of Written History more or less coincide. The outlier is the proposed dates given for fragmentary evidence of various kinds. God Bless You

No, the dates do not coincide. For the creationist view to make any sense, there would have to be at least a thousand years between the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood, and at least another thousand years until the Tower of Babel. All that would have to be before written history begins.

You mention "fragmentary evidence." There are many lines of evidence for the figures that I am quoting. Recently, DNA evidence has been used to shed light on when animals are domesticated. This new form of evidence has only backed up what researchers had concluded by other means.

JosephZ · 2025-12-13T21:42:10-0600

rjs330 said:
Except Islam allows lying to infidels in order to do whatever it takes to take over.

It doesn't, as I explained in this response to you back in October.

rjs330 said:
Yes we need to listen to Muslims who have left to get the stories we wouldn't know otherwise... If you don't want to believe her story, then don't. Turn a blind eye. I don't care anymore.

I don't doubt her stories about child brides and being promised to her cousin when she was born. This is a practice that occurs in the Islamic tribe I work with. More than half the children are married by contract before they are five years old, and the wedding can take place once they reach puberty and a dowry is paid. I have attended dozens of weddings that were prearranged by the parents and where the bride was a child. In 2016, I tried to help a 13-year-old girl get out of an arranged marriage by convincing the girl's mother and the boy's family how important it was for her to stay in school. I also had to pay the boy's family the same amount of money that the parents had agreed to years earlier for the girl's dowry. In their culture the family of the groom gives a dowry to the bride's family. In many cultures it's the other way around. The agreement was I would pay the money the boy's family needed for the dowry if they agreed to wait until she finished school to move forward with the wedding. Unfortunately, later that year I made a brief trip to the US, and while I was away, the girl's mother died, and the boy's family took the girl against her will to another island, and they were married anyway. Everything ex-Muslim Sabatina James blames Islam for in that video when it comes to her prearranged marriage and child marriages in general is the result of culture and tradition, not Islam. Those practices predate Islam and occur in non-Islamic cultures as well.

Just four minutes into the video, Sabatina James says, "Recently in Pakistan, five women were buried alive just because they refused the arranged marriage that their family had chosen for them. They wanted to marry men of their own choices. Three of them were actually teenagers. So this stuff happens every single day."

That incident wasn't recent; it happened in 2008, and it was tribal traditions, not the teachings of Islam, that led to their deaths.

Pakistan: Three teenage girls buried alive in tribal 'honour' killing

Three teenage girls have been buried alive by their tribe in a remote part of Pakistan to punish them for attempting to choose their own husbands, in an "honour" killing case. Some reports said that two older relatives of the girls had tried to intervene, but they too were shot and buried with the girls while still alive.

Under tribal - not religious - tradition, marriages are carefully arranged by elders. Marrying without permission is considered an affront to the honour of the tribe.

Another article:

Five women beaten and buried alive in Pakistan 'honour killing'

Honor killings predate Islam and occur in Pakistani Christian families as well.

Pakistani murders his sister in name of ‘honor’: police

A Pakistani girl has been killed by her brother for insisting on marrying a man of her choice, police said on Tuesday, marking the nation’s latest gruesome “honor killing”

Anum Ishaq masih, in her late teens and from a Christian family, was murdered while she slept in the city of Sialkot, southwest of Lahore, in the early hours of Sunday.

“Saqib Ishaq masih, 23, killed his sister by smashing her head with a wooden log while she was sleeping,” said Rana Zulfiqar, the officer in charge of the police station in Sialkot. “The girl, named Anum Ishaq masih, was in her late teens and wanted to marry a Christian neighbor, but the family was against the marriage.”

Later in the video she says the following: "It's actually frightening how little Christians know about what Islam teaches about them. Christians are among the worst of creatures."

Islam doesn't teach that Christians are the worst of creatures. Only those who oppose God's revealed books to them or those who engage in idolatry are considered the worst of creatures.

She goes on to say, "The Quran itself in Surah 5 says that a Muslim and a Christian cannot be friends."

The verse she's referring to was revealed in Medina during a time of conflict when certain Christian, Jewish, and pagan tribes had formed alliances to fight against the Muslims.

"O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies; some of them are allies of one another. Whoever of you allies himself with them is one of them. God does not guide the wrongdoing people." (Qur'an 5:51)

The Christians being spoken of were very specific Christians at a specific point in time. That verse is not a blanket command for Muslims to not be friends with Christians today.

As for those who have not fought against you for your religion, nor expelled you from your homes, God does not prohibit you from dealing with them kindly and equitably. God loves the equitable. But God prohibits you from befriending those who fought against you over your religion, and expelled you from your homes, and aided in your expulsion. Whoever takes them for friends—these are the wrongdoers. (Qur'an 60:8-9)

O you who believe! Do not befriend those who take your religion in mockery and as a sport, be they from among those who were given the Scripture before you, or the disbelievers. And obey God, if you are believers. When you call to the prayer, they take it as a joke and a trifle. That is because they are people who do not reason. (Qur'an 5:67-58)

As you can see from those verses, Muslims can be friends with those who do not fight against them or mock them.

Sabatina James knows the things I pointed out above, but she also knows that those watching the Michael Knowles show, like yourself, don't.

1Tonne · 2025-12-13T21:36:14-0600

SarahsKnight said:
I cannot deny that pre-trib Rapture doctrine just seems like a fundamentally wrong way of reading the book of Revelation

People who believe in an early rapture, that is, the snatching up of believers either before, during or straight after the Tribulation, often point to 1 Thessalonians 4:15–18. They read it as teaching that the dead in Christ rise first to meet with Christ, and then immediately afterwards, those who are alive are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. So, a rapture for all believers who are both dead and alive and they meet with the Lord in the air.
But Jesus Himself taught something different. Several times, He said believers are raised on the last day and not before. This is the end of earthly time, when He judges the world at the Great White Throne judgment. Here are verses that show what Jesus believed and also what the early disciples believed.
John 6:39 – And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 – For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:44 – No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 – The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 – Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

So, when does anyone rise before the last day? Only in the case of the martyrs. Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of an early resurrection for those who are killed for their faith. They are given white robes (Rev 6:9-11) and are raised and reign with Christ for 1,000 years, but the rest of the dead are not raised until the last day of time.
With this in mind, 1 Thessalonians 4:15–18 makes sense: “the dead in Christ” are raised first (the martyrs), and then at the last day of time, those who are left alive (and anyone in the grave) are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds and all go to judgment at the GWT judgement.

It is clear, then, that all believers are raised on the last day, while only martyrs are raised early.
On the last day, the dead, both believers and unbelievers alike, are raised and judged.
Acts 24:15 confirms this when it says "a" resurrection: “I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” This points to a single resurrection of all the dead, not two separate resurrections.

And Jesus also said that there will be a time when all believers and non-believers are raised and judged. In John 5:28–29 He says: “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T21:35:38-0600

Desk trauma said:
Kimchi.

Kimchi denied.

RocksInMyHead · 2025-12-13T21:29:45-0600

Factotum said:
You used fancy words to NOT explain why you feel the criminality concepts are different.

While the criminality concepts might be similar, the fact remains that Trump was convicted. James' indictment, on the other hand, was dismissed. And, to be clear, they're trying to charge James in Virginia, not New York.

SarahsKnight · 2025-12-13T21:24:06-0600

timothyu said:
Serendipity. II never read the books or saw the movies

See to it that you don't. I still have a soft spot for the very original Left Behind movie with Kirk Cameron in 2000 (mostly because it didn't seem all that sociopathic, and Gordon Currie's performance as "the Antichrist" was awesomely hammy, especially in the surprisingly intense ending scene where he takes over the U.N. right in front of Kirk's character's eyes via mind control of everyone else present), but I cannot deny that pre-trib Rapture doctrine just seems like a fundamentally wrong way of reading the book of Revelation and mixing up the Old Testament books of prophecy with it.

And more importantly, the books are outright terribly written, with an astoundingly sociopathic aura of "Ah hah! I win! You lose! Our interpretation of prophecy was right and you were wrong! Now you suffer agonizing plagues from God on Earth and then burn alive in hell forever afterward! Woohoo! Pre-trib Christians are number one, baby!" Do not read them and let them get into your head like I unfortunately did about two years back.

RocksInMyHead · 2025-12-13T21:22:22-0600

JSRG said:
A bit odd that the newbie managed to get an indictment while the actual prosecutor failed, but Halligan might've just lucked out on the grand jury selection.

Possibly - or perhaps she did something like what she did in the Comey case and made misrepresentations of fact and/or law due to her inexperience.

PloverWing · 2025-12-13T21:21:55-0600

Here in the US, we can get crazy competitive about the dumbest things. Apparently, that's true in the UK as well.

If you enjoy putting up lights and baking cookies, do it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. Don't give your neighbors a hard time about what they do or don't do in December. And be merciful to those who are exhausted or sad during Advent and Christmas -- which is more people that you might think.

I'm sorry your friend has annoying neighbors.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-13T21:18:46-0600

Genesis 6:4

New International Version

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
1 Enoch internally written before the flood by Enoch 7th from Adam inspired scripture hidden (apocrypha) from the swine, and unworthy by God himself explains how the sons of God were fallen angels, and Jude, and Peter imply the same thing when they say angels left their heavenly abode were put in chains until judgement which is what 1 Enoch says also.

The Cave of Treasures internally is written after 70 AD as it says Titus has destroyed Jerusalem. Inspired scripture stopped 70 AD (Dan 9 said vision, and prophecy would be sealed up by then) so it is not inspired. Some manuscripts say it was written by Ephrem the Syrian who died 373 AD. That text says sons of Seth mated with daughters of Cain, and made the giants, and explicitly says fallen angels were not involved. Augustine of Hippo 400 AD says the same thing. Conflict of Adam, and Eve with Satan (which is divided into 4 books) also say the same. That text was also written after 70 AD as it says Titus has destroyed Jerusalem, and shares a lot of content with Cave of Treasures. That text also says Melchizadek was the son of Cainan. I'm not sure if it was written before or after cave of treasures. So Ephrem the Syrian is the earliest author denying what 1 Enoch says AFAIK. In those texts sons of god meant Seths children as Seth, and other people in that lineage were righteous Genesis 6:9. Augustine also promoted the idea that 1 Enoch was not written pre flood. So up until 300s AD the majority of Christians believed 1 Enoch was written pre flood like Jesus, Jude, 1 Enoch, and all the other evidence says it was (there is stuff in the dead sea scrolls about Abraham reading Enoch when in Egypt, and Levi passing Enochs books to his children). My guess is the synagogue of satan after 70 AD started saying to Christians you can't trust 1 Enoch it is a myth it is pseudepigrapha it was written after the flood etc, and a lot of Christians believed them just like Adam, and Eve believed the devil in the garden of Eden, David believed satan with the census (God allowed the devil to tempt David) , and just like 50 million Christians today believe the synagogue of satan when they say "god gave us palestine help us kill steal and destroy in the name of the god of abraham'. The reason the synagogue of satan did not like 1 Enoch is because of the son of man that existed before creation with the lord of spirits prophecy (ask chat GPT to show all the prophecies of Jesus in 1 Enoch) which was used by Daniel later on, and when Jesus called himself the son of man the high priest rent his garment, and said “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. Mathew 26: 65.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:17:53-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
It doesn’t say Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath what you accused me of. Jesus also never said He “became” Lord of the Sabbath something you did add to God’s Words when we are plainly told not to.

Been through this already. Go back and read my posts.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T21:11:43-0600

BobRyan said:
The first Covenant Gen 2 is "obey and Live". Gal 3 confirms this.
Adam and Eve sinned so at that very moment the New Covenant , grace became the rule, else they would have died then and there.

Well, he was condemned to work by the sweat of his brow, effectively missing out on God’s rest.

BobRyan said:
Christ did not "fulfill the command to not take God's name in vain by dying". Dying is not fulfilling moral law, rather it is paying the debt owed for violation of moral law.

The contract broken, called for death.

Even so, it is still a sin to take God's name in vain.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The covenant with Abraham had two parties, God and man. By becoming man and dying the death, the covenant is done away with completely because God no longer remains a party.

7So I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to be slaughtered by the sheep traders. And I took two staffs, one I named Favor, the other I named Union. And I tended the sheep. 8In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me. 9So I said, “I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die. What is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed. And let those who are left devour the flesh of one another.” 10And I took my staff Favor, and I broke it, annulling the covenant that I had made with all the peoples. 11So it was annulled on that day, and the sheep traders, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12Then I said to them, “If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.” And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. 13Then the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD, to the potter. 14Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

There remains then a Sabbath.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:09:31-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
Another false accusation you made about me that you can’t prove. Show one post where I said Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath.

Where in my post did I accused you of that?

SabbathBlessings said:
Jesus is fully God, never “became” Lord of the Sabbath, your words that you added to His words when we are plainly told not to.

No. You missed the whole incarnation thing about Jesus didn’t you? Jesus is in fact fully God and now is also fully man. He was not man before the incarnation so the sabbath was made for man and He became one and the only one that ever kept it perfectly. He fulfilled (completed) the law including the sabbath. Legalism is illogical and unscriptural.

SabbathBlessings said:
We are accountable for our false testimonies against others.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-13T21:05:45-0600

Trump attacks on political opponents spur a surge of threats, NBC News review finds

President Donald Trump’s heated rhetoric against his perceived political enemies has resulted in a blizzard of threats against at least 22 officials on both sides of the aisle in recent weeks, according to an NBC News tally.

Law enforcement has not identified the sources of the new wave of threats, but many of Trump’s targets say the president provoked them with over-the-top accusations of criminality on the part of Democrats and betrayal on the part of his fellow Republicans.

A spokeswoman for the White House, Abigail Jackson, said the president is concerned about political violence and hasn’t done anything wrong.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:03:31-0600

BobRyan said:
your distance from detail again. You are the one that posted that Christ "BECAME" the Lord of the Sabbath in Mark 2 even though you were shown repeatedly that Heb 8 teaches that Christ was God writing the TEN at Sinai... place the Sabbath in stone with His own finger.

read more. AT the very least go read it after it has been pointed out for you a few times on the thread.

I’ve read what you have posted and replied to each one as opposed to you that only reply to some of my post but not the parts that are hard for you. Legalism is illogical.

Always in His Presence · 2025-12-13T21:01:00-0600

partinobodycular said:
It's actually very simple, we just disagree with you about what Christ considers to be abhorrent.

That is the beauty of having personal opinions - they can differ.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:00:29-0600

BobRyan said:
Adam and Eve were held accountable in Gen 3 for what God said in Gen 2 even though Moses had not yet been born. Clearly they did not have to wait for Moses to be born to hear what God had said.

God told them and it is written. No sabbath though. I’m done with your circular logic and argument from silence. The only thing that can win the argument for you is to post a verse that shows people keeping the sabbath before Moses and a verse showing which commandments Abraham kept (maybe the Noahic law?). And then while you are at it post a verse that shows that the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments was given to the gentiles collectively. I’ve been asking for these verse for quite some time but you either keep ignoring the requests or simply can not comply because they don’t exist. Which one is it?

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T20:54:20-0600

Desk trauma said:
Pickles.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:52:45-0600

BobRyan said:
you are not following the details in the discussion.

I said the command to not take God's name in vain is not recorded before Ex 20 , yet it would be a sin going all the way back to Eden.
Obviously.

And I told you before that you are making an argument from silence which as you know is quite the fallacy. You need to follow the details of the discussion.

BobRyan said:
Does not read "Jesus BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath" as we all know. Probably why you are not actually quoting these

"The Son of man IS LORD of the Sabbath" is not how we say "The Son of man BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath". You are missing a lot of details in this discussion.

Oh brother. I guess you guys have the cookie cutter argument.

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

Again, the sabbath was made for man. Jesus became man and as God and man is Lord of the Sabbath. Nothing you can say here can change this fact.

BobRyan said:
Heb 8 says it is Christ giving the commandments at Sinai.

Nope. Jesus ushered in a new covenant. The old covenant has faded away. God has given the Son all authority.

“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 28:18 (NASB2020) - And Jesus came up and spoke to them | YouVersion

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

bible.com

BobRyan said:
Follow the details .... then you will see.

You follow.

BobRyan said:
Moses is the one that records in Genesis that God told Isaac that Abraham kept His Commandments.

Which commandments? Give me the list with book and verse.

BobRyan said:
And as I showed you before both the Baptist Confession of Faith AND the Westminster Confession of Faith confirm that it is God giving the TEN in Eden.

You did not show what you think you did and you continue with your straw man.

BobRyan said:
Mark 2 says "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27, which speaks to the making of both in Gen 1-2. Obviously.

Of course the sabbath was made for man and Jesus became man and Lord of the sabbath. Keep up with the discussion.

BobRyan said:
You are stuck with "Sabbath made just for Jews" which is absolutely not the teaching of Christ in Mark 2:27 or in Isaiah 66;23.

So show me where the sabbath was kept before Moses. It should be simple for you since you are so sure that you are right.

BobRyan said:
You are missing wayyy too many details even after they are pointed out.

And yet you still have not posted a verse that shows that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses or that the law was given to the gentiles collectively. Why is that?

BobRyan said:
All Ten of them ...

Even the Christian Confessions of Faith affirm it. You are going wayyy out on a limb

God existed before Moses.
You are missing wayyy too many details

Thank God the Christian Confessions of Faith can admit the obvious even if you claim you don't understand

I’ve already explained and rebuked your argument regarding the confessions. Why is it that you did not addressed what I wrote?

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-13T20:52:32-0600

Jan001 said:
I don't think the inspired scriptures were suppressed or hidden.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Yes they were hidden by God. I made a post about How God hides things. Ask chat GPT to show all the bible verses about God hiding things, and why. It is so only wise people come across it not swine/unworthy. The word apocrypha means hidden. Thanks for the positive comment.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-13T20:46:54-0600

peter2 said:
Hello, eleos and other forumers.

I deeply thank samaus for his search with chatgpt, but i'd like to see if there's no other reply to the last of my observation, just before this search,

and i'd like to add a few another questions, please :

Since she revealed herself so protective, together with Joseph (see 12 years old finding in the Temple, see fleeing to Egypt), she likely admitted Jesus could die. Let's suppose so..

For the fleeing to Egypt, God intervened through Joseph's dream. He asked for this fleeing. Let's forget it !
But for the finding in the Temple :

Is Jesus' reply to her mother (he had to stand in His Father's house) the true and magistral reason why they should never have worried for him ?

I mean :
About the fleeing in Egypt, even if it's been conducted with a protective intention from Joseph and Mary, should it have been done from this reason ?

Again from my meaning, two collateral questions :

Had he died in Herod's massacre, wouldn't God have resurrected him then ?

Or, could we make the assumption the reason why God wished the sparing of Jesus' life at this massacre is : He wanted first and foremost the planned death on the cross to happen ?

If you want more info about Mary, and Jesus childhood read or listen on youtube to- proto evangelion of James internally written by James (step) brother of Jesus after the death of Herod the great 4BC-1BC, and just after the birth of Jesus, and history of Joseph the Carpenter internally written before 70 AD also. Both are hidden inspired scripture for mature Christians. Another one is pseudo Mathew which Jerome 400 AD said was written by Mathew the apostle which I believe. There is no internal date of authorship in that text but it is about Jesus childhood with Mary and Joseph, and their flight to Egypt. All are on audiobook on youtube.

Carmenls · 2025-12-13T20:43:54-0600

My son Jakeb is having another bad night. Please ask God to heal him mind and body, give him joy and keep him safe. I pray that the doctor will help him on Monday. Oh please pray there is nothing seriously wrong. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-12-13T20:42:49-0600

BrotherJJ said:
We agree Rev makes many symbolic points. Having said that, your reply leaves no room for any literal interpretations.

The OP made no reference to 666. So, I'll leave that rabbit hole for another discussion thread.

Literal vs symbolic scripture's examples:

This verse ALL literal
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; & every eye shall see him, & they also which pierced him: & all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

This verse symbolic
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
(NOTE: NOT wool or snow or a flame. BUT: "like wool" "as snow" "as a flame". We must pay close attention, CONTEXT is always KEY.

Rev text often announces symbolism with phrases like: sign, like or as, I saw, having the appearance of, which represents or which is...

Examples: Rev 12:1: "A great sign appeared in heave", "a woman". Rev 13:2: The beast "was like" "a leopard". When text signals a symbol we should interpret symbolically.

In Rev, #'s tied to counts of people or time are consistently literal.

Examples: 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 42 months, 1,260 days, 12 TRIBES, 12K from each tribe etc...

Rev cites literal places. Examples: Jerusalem, Euphrates, Armageddon, Patmos, Zion etc. Unless symbolic its noted. Example: Rev 11:8. "spiritually" called Sodom & Egypt.

When Rev cites earthly judgments, they are literal. Examples: earthquakes literal, darkness literal, famine literal, plagues literal, war literal etc...

When symbolic is signaled, interpret symbolically. If not, interpret literally.

How this applies to the 144k. John gives numbers → literal tribes, literal names, literal genealogical bloodline categories. When no symbolic signal given → interpret literally!

So again I submit the 144k mentioned in Rev 7 & 14 are literal OT Israelites. Men redeemed from the earth, a firstfruits/resurrection wave soul harvest offering made unto The Father & Son. Amen

Apocalyptic literature is often symbolic so it is difficult if not necessary to take it literal.

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Genesis 6:4​

New International Version​

Trump attacks on political opponents spur a surge of threats, NBC News review finds​

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Genesis 6:4

New International Version

Trump attacks on political opponents spur a surge of threats, NBC News review finds