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essentialsaltes · 2025-12-13T21:05:45-0600

Trump attacks on political opponents spur a surge of threats, NBC News review finds

President Donald Trump’s heated rhetoric against his perceived political enemies has resulted in a blizzard of threats against at least 22 officials on both sides of the aisle in recent weeks, according to an NBC News tally.

Law enforcement has not identified the sources of the new wave of threats, but many of Trump’s targets say the president provoked them with over-the-top accusations of criminality on the part of Democrats and betrayal on the part of his fellow Republicans.

A spokeswoman for the White House, Abigail Jackson, said the president is concerned about political violence and hasn’t done anything wrong.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:03:31-0600

BobRyan said:
your distance from detail again. You are the one that posted that Christ "BECAME" the Lord of the Sabbath in Mark 2 even though you were shown repeatedly that Heb 8 teaches that Christ was God writing the TEN at Sinai... place the Sabbath in stone with His own finger.

read more. AT the very least go read it after it has been pointed out for you a few times on the thread.

I’ve read what you have posted and replied to each one as opposed to you that only reply to some of my post but not the parts that are hard for you. Legalism is illogical.

Always in His Presence · 2025-12-13T21:01:00-0600

partinobodycular said:
It's actually very simple, we just disagree with you about what Christ considers to be abhorrent.

That is the beauty of having personal opinions - they can differ.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T21:00:29-0600

BobRyan said:
Adam and Eve were held accountable in Gen 3 for what God said in Gen 2 even though Moses had not yet been born. Clearly they did not have to wait for Moses to be born to hear what God had said.

God told them and it is written. No sabbath though. I’m done with your circular logic and argument from silence. The only thing that can win the argument for you is to post a verse that shows people keeping the sabbath before Moses and a verse showing which commandments Abraham kept (maybe the Noahic law?). And then while you are at it post a verse that shows that the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments was given to the gentiles collectively. I’ve been asking for these verse for quite some time but you either keep ignoring the requests or simply can not comply because they don’t exist. Which one is it?

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T20:54:20-0600

Desk trauma said:
Pickles.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:52:45-0600

BobRyan said:
you are not following the details in the discussion.

I said the command to not take God's name in vain is not recorded before Ex 20 , yet it would be a sin going all the way back to Eden.
Obviously.

And I told you before that you are making an argument from silence which as you know is quite the fallacy. You need to follow the details of the discussion.

BobRyan said:
Does not read "Jesus BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath" as we all know. Probably why you are not actually quoting these

"The Son of man IS LORD of the Sabbath" is not how we say "The Son of man BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath". You are missing a lot of details in this discussion.

Oh brother. I guess you guys have the cookie cutter argument.

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

Again, the sabbath was made for man. Jesus became man and as God and man is Lord of the Sabbath. Nothing you can say here can change this fact.

BobRyan said:
Heb 8 says it is Christ giving the commandments at Sinai.

Nope. Jesus ushered in a new covenant. The old covenant has faded away. God has given the Son all authority.

“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 28:18 (NASB2020) - And Jesus came up and spoke to them | YouVersion

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

bible.com

BobRyan said:
Follow the details .... then you will see.

You follow.

BobRyan said:
Moses is the one that records in Genesis that God told Isaac that Abraham kept His Commandments.

Which commandments? Give me the list with book and verse.

BobRyan said:
And as I showed you before both the Baptist Confession of Faith AND the Westminster Confession of Faith confirm that it is God giving the TEN in Eden.

You did not show what you think you did and you continue with your straw man.

BobRyan said:
Mark 2 says "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27, which speaks to the making of both in Gen 1-2. Obviously.

Of course the sabbath was made for man and Jesus became man and Lord of the sabbath. Keep up with the discussion.

BobRyan said:
You are stuck with "Sabbath made just for Jews" which is absolutely not the teaching of Christ in Mark 2:27 or in Isaiah 66;23.

So show me where the sabbath was kept before Moses. It should be simple for you since you are so sure that you are right.

BobRyan said:
You are missing wayyy too many details even after they are pointed out.

And yet you still have not posted a verse that shows that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses or that the law was given to the gentiles collectively. Why is that?

BobRyan said:
All Ten of them ...

Even the Christian Confessions of Faith affirm it. You are going wayyy out on a limb

God existed before Moses.
You are missing wayyy too many details

Thank God the Christian Confessions of Faith can admit the obvious even if you claim you don't understand

I’ve already explained and rebuked your argument regarding the confessions. Why is it that you did not addressed what I wrote?

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-13T20:52:32-0600

Jan001 said:
I don't think the inspired scriptures were suppressed or hidden.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Yes they were hidden by God. I made a post about How God hides things. Ask chat GPT to show all the bible verses about God hiding things, and why. It is so only wise people come across it not swine/unworthy. The word apocrypha means hidden. Thanks for the positive comment.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-13T20:46:54-0600

peter2 said:
Hello, eleos and other forumers.

I deeply thank samaus for his search with chatgpt, but i'd like to see if there's no other reply to the last of my observation, just before this search,

and i'd like to add a few another questions, please :

Since she revealed herself so protective, together with Joseph (see 12 years old finding in the Temple, see fleeing to Egypt), she likely admitted Jesus could die. Let's suppose so..

For the fleeing to Egypt, God intervened through Joseph's dream. He asked for this fleeing. Let's forget it !
But for the finding in the Temple :

Is Jesus' reply to her mother (he had to stand in His Father's house) the true and magistral reason why they should never have worried for him ?

I mean :
About the fleeing in Egypt, even if it's been conducted with a protective intention from Joseph and Mary, should it have been done from this reason ?

Again from my meaning, two collateral questions :

Had he died in Herod's massacre, wouldn't God have resurrected him then ?

Or, could we make the assumption the reason why God wished the sparing of Jesus' life at this massacre is : He wanted first and foremost the planned death on the cross to happen ?

If you want more info about Mary, and Jesus childhood read or listen on youtube to- proto evangelion of James internally written by James (step) brother of Jesus after the death of Herod the great 4BC-1BC, and just after the birth of Jesus, and history of Joseph the Carpenter internally written before 70 AD also. Both are hidden inspired scripture for mature Christians. Another one is pseudo Mathew which Jerome 400 AD said was written by Mathew the apostle which I believe. There is no internal date of authorship in that text but it is about Jesus childhood with Mary and Joseph, and their flight to Egypt. All are on audiobook on youtube.

Carmenls · 2025-12-13T20:43:54-0600

My son Jakeb is having another bad night. Please ask God to heal him mind and body, give him joy and keep him safe. I pray that the doctor will help him on Monday. Oh please pray there is nothing seriously wrong. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-12-13T20:42:49-0600

BrotherJJ said:
We agree Rev makes many symbolic points. Having said that, your reply leaves no room for any literal interpretations.

The OP made no reference to 666. So, I'll leave that rabbit hole for another discussion thread.

Literal vs symbolic scripture's examples:

This verse ALL literal
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; & every eye shall see him, & they also which pierced him: & all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

This verse symbolic
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
(NOTE: NOT wool or snow or a flame. BUT: "like wool" "as snow" "as a flame". We must pay close attention, CONTEXT is always KEY.

Rev text often announces symbolism with phrases like: sign, like or as, I saw, having the appearance of, which represents or which is...

Examples: Rev 12:1: "A great sign appeared in heave", "a woman". Rev 13:2: The beast "was like" "a leopard". When text signals a symbol we should interpret symbolically.

In Rev, #'s tied to counts of people or time are consistently literal.

Examples: 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls, 42 months, 1,260 days, 12 TRIBES, 12K from each tribe etc...

Rev cites literal places. Examples: Jerusalem, Euphrates, Armageddon, Patmos, Zion etc. Unless symbolic its noted. Example: Rev 11:8. "spiritually" called Sodom & Egypt.

When Rev cites earthly judgments, they are literal. Examples: earthquakes literal, darkness literal, famine literal, plagues literal, war literal etc...

When symbolic is signaled, interpret symbolically. If not, interpret literally.

How this applies to the 144k. John gives numbers → literal tribes, literal names, literal genealogical bloodline categories. When no symbolic signal given → interpret literally!

So again I submit the 144k mentioned in Rev 7 & 14 are literal OT Israelites. Men redeemed from the earth, a firstfruits/resurrection wave soul harvest offering made unto The Father & Son. Amen

Apocalyptic literature is often symbolic so it is difficult if not necessary to take it literal.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T20:42:08-0600

BobRyan said:
Heb 8 has Christ writing the Ten

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

BobRyan said:
Commandments and Matt 5 has Christ condemning the doctrine that says His job is to destroy God's Law.

No of course, he fulfilled it by dying. Which was the terms of the contract in the old covenant.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T20:37:56-0600

Desk trauma said:
View attachment 374451
With how sneaky they can be there could be lurking.

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:35:07-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
The goal post moved once again.

Goal posts are the same. Either Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath or He is not.

SabbathBlessings said:
No one said anything about Jesus is not Lord of the Sabbath,

You did.

SabbathBlessings said:
you added He “became” the Lord of The Sabbath

Because He was not a man before and the sabbath was made for man.

SabbathBlessings said:
and you know thats what this is about, which implies He was created,

No. Jesus became man. He has always been God.

SabbathBlessings said:
when He is taking ownership of when man was made (at Creation Gen1:26)

Yep.

SabbathBlessings said:
and when the Sabbath was made (at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3)

Which no one knew about until Moses.

SabbathBlessings said:
that He is Lord of because He is our Creator and what the Sabbath points to Exo20:11.

Again, which no one knew about Exodus until Moses.

SabbathBlessings said:
Our Creator, Jesus only spoke of continuation of the Sabbath Mat24:20 Isa66:22-23 and we are told not to add our words to His.

No. He is the Lord of the Sabbath and our Christian rest.

stevevw · 2025-12-13T20:32:33-0600

Hans Blaster said:
The "Dark Ages" might be a misnomer or mischaracterization, but it is not a "conspiracy".

It is when its used to claim that knowledge and belief in the mind and body divide within Christianity just disappeared.

Hans Blaster said:
No one claims Christianity "disappeared" in the Dark Ages,

As far as I can see using the Dark Ages to say that Christianity did not have any views or beliefs on the Mind and Body divide is denying Christian thought. I proposed that the early church understood the Mind and Body divide in their beliefs and teachings.

It was rejected and claimed it was the Muslims and Greek culture that brought this idea. That Christianity when into the Dark Ages and thus was not responsible.

Hans Blaster said:
it was learning and good record keeping that "disappeared" as political systems fragmented into smaller polities. There is a similar "Greek Dark Ages" prior to the Classical period after the Late Bronze Age Collapse where Greek history and culture are hard to track.

So Christian thought and belief never lost the unique take on the Mind and Body difference. Their doctrine naturally included such ideas and were not the result of the Greeks or Muslim thought.

fhansen · 2025-12-13T20:29:53-0600

timothyu said:
The Kingdom gospel was replaced with the salvation gospel. There was no longer another Kingdom to rival the Empire and the Empire no longer needed to serve God or each other including enemies. It was free to carry on, business as usual. So it wasn't the Empire that changed to serve God but the religious institution that changed to serve the Empire and follow the traditional ways of man. Like I said it accepted all this can be yours rather than reject it as Jesus had done.

The notion that the kingdom might be fully realized here on earth by God working through His people had its day for many years. Ain't gonna happen; no heaven on earth. It's what we should strive for nonetheless, while understanding that eternal life beings here but is only fully consummated in the next life.

Dale · 2025-12-13T20:27:10-0600

lismore said:
Hello Dale. I wouldn't say what you presented was 'everything we know'. Seems like vague and unverified dates given arbitrarily to fragmentary evidence. A better question could be how far do Historical Writings go back in time? God Bless You

The things I was talking about happened before written history began. While creationists tell me that the world is only 6,000 years old, I have seen one source that says that written history alone goes back 6,100 years.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-13T20:23:10-0600

BPPLEE said:
That's true. But I don't believe Allah is the same as Yahweh

Entirely depends on how you use the word. By the Muslim definition no, clearly not the same since their Allah came with a clearly blasphemous and heretical doctrine.

That being said, Jews say YHWH is their ’Eloah’ and that is clearly false as well.

JSRG · 2025-12-13T20:20:08-0600

camille70 said:
For it to be a conspiracy, the number of items the Trump administration has completed is amazing.

https://www.project2025.observer/en

I wouldn't call the claims about Project 2025 a "conspiracy" exactly, but a bunch of people definitely did exaggerate what it said or just plain made claims that weren't even true when trying to attack Trump with it. One can find more commonality between Trump's policies and Project 2025 when one is comparing the actual content of Project 2025 rather than the exaggerations.

However, the idea that Project 2025 (actual Project 2025 or exaggerated version) was some kind of secret blueprint for Trump has problems with it. Project 2025 was a manifesto by a Republican-aligned group (the Heritage Foundation) and Trump, guess what, is a Republican. One can find a bunch of commonality between the Green Party platform and stuff Biden did, it doesn't mean Biden was following the ideas of the Green Party, it just means that because they're both liberals you're going to find some crossover.

As is well explained here (this was from much earlier this year, but the general points still hold up), footnotes omitted:

Take-ing on the New Administration

A Trump hot takes megapost. (Once. As a treat.)

decivitate.jamesjheaney.com

...many point out that Project 2025 suggested things that President de facto Trump later commanded through executive order—often using language that closely echoes language from Project 2025—so we are already living in a Project 2025 regime (and it sucks!). Hence Politico’s “37 ways Project 2025 has shown up in Trump’s executive orders.” These articles are used to vindicate last year’s conspiracy theory that, despite Donald Trump’s repeated repudiation of Project 2025, Project 2025 was nevertheless the secret blueprint of his administration. (I wrote about these and other P2025-related conspiracy theories last year.) Yet the presumption of all these articles is that, if Project 2025 suggested doing something and Trump subsequently did it, Project 2025 must be where the idea originated. That’s not remotely the case.

In fact, for some ideas, it’s exactly the opposite: the first Trump Administration had an idea, then Project 2025 adopted it into their framework! Even though Trump later did these things, he obviously didn’t get the idea from Project 2025. In most cases (like DEI rollbacks), he actively ran on these ideas, and the American people voted for it.

For many ideas, Trump and Project 2025 were both drawing on long-standing conservative commitments. For example, it is true, as Politico alleges in a scandalized tone, that Project 2025 recommended Trump impose the Mexico City Policy to block U.S. subsidies for international abortion providers… and Trump did! However, it’s perfectly obvious Trump didn’t do it because Project 2025 suggested it; he also imposed the Mexico City Policy at the start of his first term… and so has every other incoming Republican president since Ronald Reagan. This is just something Republican presidents do. Treating this as proof that Donald Trump is secretly following Project 2025 is just as silly as treating it as proof that George H.W. Bush was secretly following Project 2025 more than thirty years before Project 2025 was written!

This gives us a fairly simple heuristic you can use to see whether it’s even plausible that Trump got one of his ideas from Project 2025:

Did he do it in his last term, before Project 2025 existed? If yes, then it obviously didn’t come from Project 2025.
Did he actively campaign on it in 2024, the same campaign where he repudiated Project 2025? If yes, then it obviously wasn’t a secret he foisted on an unsuspecting public, and he probably didn’t get the idea from Project 2025 at all!

When you go through the 37 executive orders Politico cites as “evidence” that Trump was lying on the campaign trail, this simple heuristic eliminates 35 of them.

What’s left? What Trump policy proposals may have actually originated from Project 2025? Spicy stuff, believe you me:

Closing the OFCCP (Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs)

I doubt President Trump knew then, nor knows now, what OFCCP is. It’s an anti-discrimination enforcement office, so it was in trouble no matter what, but it’s plausible that the idea to close it came from P2025.
Shifting FEMA burdens to the states, with FEMA playing only a support role

Note that Trump already hated FEMA, and it’s easy to imagine Trump asking the office, “Hey, how can I crush FEMA under my heel,” and a P2025 staffer saying, “You know, I wrote down some ideas about that.”

I did always say that, since Project 2025 is very much a part of the (very small) conservative policy wonk world, it was inevitable that Project 2025 would have some influence in the Trump White House, as one faction among many. These data points seem to bear that out.

camille70 said:
The democratic process was not bypassed to promote Harris. The DNC followed their policies to elect someone at the last minute. The DNC electors had people who submitted their intent to run with the required signatures and they were voted on. Not everyone voted for Harris via a virtual roll call. She was also not the only one with delegates, but the others did not have enough to win.

People were expecting a 50 state primary all over again. That's not what happens. There was also not time for it as deadlines had passed in all the states and my state of Ohio was threatening not to have the dem candidate on the ballot at all if not submitted by a certain date. They were unwilling to provide exceptions granted to candidates in the past, including GOP candidates.

See Adoption of early virtual nomination vote here.

2024 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.

The Democratic process (or, at least, the primary process) was bypassed to promote Harris. It might have been unavoidable to not bypass at that point (there was absolutely no time to do primaries), but it was still bypassed.

I do think that, with the hand the Democrats were dealt with Biden dropping out, quickly rallying around Harris was the decision that made the most sense. There was no time for a primary, they didn't want the convention to get taken over by arguments over who the delegates should vote for (especially because the convention wasn't planned to be a contested convention), and it made the most sense to rally around the person who was the Vice President. In hindsight we can see that didn't work out, so maybe it would've been better to do it differently... but with the information available at the time, and the situation they were in, I think quickly rallying around Harris was the best decision.

Of course, while I said "it might have been unavoidable to not bypass at that point" we should put emphasis on the words "at that point". Because if Biden hadn't run for re-election, they could've had a real primary (they technically had a primary but as is normal for a sitting President, Biden was so strongly favored they might as well not have). I can definitely see frustration for being told endlessly "Biden's actually totally fine, ignore all claims that he isn't! No need for any real primary!" only to then later on be told "okay, Biden actually isn't in that great of a shape, but there's no time for a primary now, so it's Harris whether you like it or not."

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:15:18-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
No you added Jesus “became”, which is not there.

lol so Jesus is not the Lord of the sabbath?

HARK! · 2025-12-13T20:09:35-0600

NxNW said:
Correct, and the fixtures represent the decade, not individual years

Those individual years are part of that decade.

NxNW said:
Because you misinterpreted the figures?

No

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:09:29-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
Your words, not His. Why we are told not to add to them. Pro30:6 but suit yourself.

I quoted the verses. It is Jesus speaking.

stevevw · 2025-12-13T20:04:53-0600

BCP1928 said:
But we will still have a body, not a conscious mind without a body.

This is a false equivelance. Your assuming its the exact same as our state now. It will not be. If it was then we will still be in a fallen state. The fact that we never get sick, suffer or die is fact its not the same. So stop making false comparisons.

But this is not the only way in which early Christians understood the Mind and Body divide. They clearly understood that this physical world was different to the spirit. That the physical world was different to their spiritual knowledge and selves.

BCP1928 said:
Atheism v. theism is never the issue. Those discussions are about the Bible and creationists interpretation of it. Period. The evidence demanded is for the biblical account, not the existence of God.

But the biblical account demands belief in supernatural ideas. This is when the material atheists or anyone who uses science to beat down God or the bibles stories as unreal and make believe. Theres no difference.

Its still a material paradigm claiming an epistemic and ontological truth by demanding we show evidence. Otherwise its all rubbish. That is the very aim of skeptics when they come onto Christian forums lol. To make the delusion believers enlightened so they can get over their delusion of God and creationism lol.

BCP1928 said:
That headline was created by a biblical creationist. It's a misrepresentation of science not written by a scientist. It is not what scientists believe.

But its not a misrepresentation of how some use science and naturalism to defeat those who believe in Gods creation. I guarentee skeptics are coming to show how the science is superior and shows that God is not needed for creating life. Thats the who idea on threads like this lol.

Its philosophical in nature and not a misrepresentation. It is exactly highlighting that when it comes down to argueing the case its a matter of belief and not science.

BCP1928 said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. It makes no sense either from a theological or a scientific point of view.

If you have no idea about what I am talking about then I suggest you do some research because this is actually fairly well known within the philosophy of science. Ever heard of Kuhn. Surely you must have.

Naturalism and Science

Naturalism and Science – Metanexus

metanexus.net

Thomas Kuhn's concept of paradigms, introduced in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, revolutionized the philosophy of science by proposing that scientific progress isn't linear but occurs through revolutionary "paradigm shifts," where an established worldview (paradigm) is replaced by a new one, challenging the idea of pure objectivity and highlighting the community's role in defining scientific truth.

Kuhn: paradigms and revolutions in scientific development | IBSA Foundation

In “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions”, Kuhn analyzes the history of science and its various implications in all areas of research.

www.ibsafoundation.org

Hentenza · 2025-12-13T20:04:50-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
That’s not what you said and you know it.

You said He “became” the Lord of The Sabbath when He has always been Lord of the Sabbath, as it is the holy day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa58:13. Let’s not place our words in His mouth. He doesn’t not need our help and ask us not to Pro30:6

You don’t get it do you?

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

The sabbath is made for man, Jesus is a man, now Jesus, as both God and man (the Son of man), is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus could not have been Lord of the sabbath until He became man and fulfilled the law.

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