Fantine said:

I am glad that, in an era where Texas and other states are trying to wipe all evidence of slavery off the map, racism is being called out,

Immigrant hatred fanned the flames of racism in the 2024 campaign--and it worked.

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As the son of a legal immigrant - I hope you realize how repulsive and completely ignorant these type of statements can be. The incessant waving of the race card - calling illegal aliens immigrants is a slap in the face to legal immigrants who went through the proper process of legally entering the US. Like my mother and father who spent 7 months in an internment camp waiting for their turn to enter.

Are you an immigrant? If not - you have no footing to make any type of comments on how we feel or what we experience.
I would ask you to please stop insulting us.

Immigrant hatred IMHO is only in the hearts and minds of people who do not stand for righteousness and truth. It is one of the reasons why so many LEGAL immigrants supported President Trump and still do today. We want what's right.

From the link:

The ruling is a blow to Trump’s rush to create a more favorable political landscape for Republicans in next year’s midterms, at least for now. Texas filed an appeal Tuesday evening with the U.S. Supreme Court after Gov. Greg Abbott and other Republicans publicly defended the map, which was engineered to give Republicans five additional House seats.

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How about if we wait until we do any ghigh fiving or backslapping

essentialsaltes said:

U.S. poised to strike military targets in Venezuela

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essentialsaltes said:

US not poised to strike military targets in Venezuela

Trump admin tells Congress it currently lacks legal justification to strike Venezuela​

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USAF B-52 Bombers, Navy Fighters Fly Near Venezuela​

Multiple B-52H Stratofortress bombers flew off the northern coast of South America Nov. 20, U.S. officials told Air & Space Forces Magazine, the latest show of force by U.S. bombers in the region as the Trump administration builds up its military power in the Caribbean.

The B-52s took off from Minot Air Force Base, N.D., on the lengthy, nearly daylong flight, which a U.S. official said was a “presence patrol.”

At the same time that the B-52s were operating in the region, the U.S. also dispatched Navy F/A-18 Super Hornets embarked on the USS Gerard [sic] R. Ford, the world’s largest aircraft carrier, and a U.S. Air Force RC-135 Rivet Joint signals intelligence aircraft.

--

FAA warns all pilots of risks of flying over Venezuela over ‘worsening security situation’​

The message said the unspecified threats “could pose a potential risk to aircraft at all altitudes” as well planes taking off and landing in the country and even aircraft on the ground.

Aircraft on the ground? What's gonna happen? Something gonna fall out of the sky on top of them or something?

ThatRobGuy said:

Interpreting whether or not an order from a commander-in-chief to the military is unconstitutional is rarely is something so simple and clear cut that a 19-23 year old kid can make an accurate on-the-spot judgment call.

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They should ask their JAG for guidance? However, those legal experts have been purged:

ChubbyCherub said:

And what 'understanding' are you making reference to? The infallible nature of the bible or some other 'understanding'?

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The doctrines of inerrancy originating with the Princetonians and adopted by fundamentalists in the 20th century, primarily BB Warfield and Charles Hodge.

ChubbyCherub said:

I feel like this thread is about talking itself out of the bible and what would the agenda be behind this?

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Nonesense.

ChubbyCherub said:

No one has provided any evidence to show that the bible is in error, despite me asking for the more 'infallible version' to which we should all refer to due to the bibles 'errors' and so, I wonder what the real agenda is here?

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The goal is not to discredit the Bible, but to develop an appropriate perspective on it. Identifying specific errors wouldn't really be suited to the topic, and the premise that we need an infallible textual document is rather short sighted.

ChubbyCherub said:

I'm bowing out and will pray for all on this thread.

God bless.

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God bless you as well.

stevevw said:

That is silly. We can know what we know. We can know different ways of knowing. Which tells us that even though we don't fully know we know that there are many ways of knowing yet discovered. Saying I don't know actually means being open to all ways of knowing.

Thats one form of knowledge. I gave you the example of 'Colorblind Mary'. She gained knowledge of reality without the shared scientfific knowledge. Because sharing that knowledge could not relay the knowledge of experiencing the color red. By experiencing this she gained new knowledge that sharing science could never give her.

So thats another realm of knowledge of reality that material sciences cannot give us. There may be others through direct experiences of nature and reality that science cannot share no matter what amount of shared knowledge.

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Did I mention "material science?" Colorblind Mary acquired "the knowledge of experiencing the color red." by seeing red for herself.

DaisyDay said:

Again, if the only circumstance that are changing constantly is whether it is you or me, then the problem is hypocrisy. If not, then this is a different question.

True, it was simply stated the ICE would be going after criminals, with the unspoken "only" being strongly implied.

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The only circumstance that has changed is that today one of the leading political parties and its supporters advocate for deporting millions of undocumented immigrants and further restricting legal immigration to the United States. However, all other factors suggest that America should consider increased legal immigration, which could contribute to economic stability.

Disclaimer: these stats are generated by AI, so take the fact with some grain of salt. But if you look up some reputable source like brooking insinuate or similar institute they all have similar numbers.


------------------------------------------------------

AI generated Status

Labor Force Projections​

Without new immigrants, the US labor force would shrink and age rapidly. Native-born population growth is below replacement level, leading to a declining workforce.

Chart 1: US Labor Force by Age Group (No Immigration Scenario)

• Under 25: Shrinks by 20% by 2055
• 25-54: Declines by 15%
• 55+: Increases by 30% (aging workforce)

Economic Growth Impact​

Immigrants drive GDP growth by increasing the labor supply and contributing to productivity. The absence of immigrants would result in slower economic expansion.

Key Facts:

• Immigrants accounted for nearly 50% of labor force growth from 2000–2020.
• Without immigrants, annual GDP growth could fall below 1% by 2055.
• Labor productivity may stagnate due to reduced entrepreneurship and innovation.

Demographic Shifts​

Immigration helps counteract population aging and supports a balanced dependency ratio (the number of working-age people relative to dependents).

Chart 2: Dependency Ratio (Dependents per 100 Working-Age Adults)

• With immigration: 65 by 2055
• No immigration: 80 by 2055 (higher burden on working population)

Sectoral Impacts​

Some industries rely heavily on immigrant labor. The absence of new immigrants would intensify labor shortages, particularly in:

• Agriculture: Up to 50% of farmworkers are immigrants.
• Healthcare: 1 in 4 direct care workers is foreign-born.
• Technology: Immigrants make up 24% of STEM workers and co-found over 40% of Fortune 500 firms.
• Construction, Hospitality, Food Services: High reliance on immigrant labor for growth and operations.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


However, it's impossible to persuade MAGA supporters of any of these facts. They show absolutely no interest in them. After ten rounds of messages, I couldn't convince even one person that, on the US immigration forum, applicants must disclose whether they were previously in the USA. If we can't convince someone about official US government requirements, I seriously doubt they would understand or accept complicated US economic projections for the next thirty years.

Fortunately, most of us only need to put up with this situation for another 14 months. Hispanic voters, young voters, and some Black voters who supported the GOP in 2024 have come to realize that the current administration's policies are detrimental both to their communities and to the country as a whole. By 2027, Congress will shift its balance of power, and the GOP is unlikely to win another presidential election unless they completely overhaul themselves and join the rest of us in embracing the 21st century.

Clare73 said:

In all of Scripture there is not one verse that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

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Exactly. Many of us bought into the lie until God opened our eyes.

Fisherking said:

This means the Jewish Saints in general, not the CHURCH. You just need to let others teach prophecy, its very clear this is not your calling brother.

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The Church is found throughout the tribulation period.

The Church is described as the “saints” in Revelation 5:8, 8:3, 8:4, 11:18, 13:7, 13:10, 14:12, 15:3, 16:6, 17:6, 19:8 and 20:9.

The New Testament uses the term “saint” some 59 times, repeatedly describing Christians who walk in newness of life. The objective Bible student can quickly discern that this name consistently pertains to true believers in the New Testament.

The Church is described in Revelation as the “redeemed” in Revelation 5:9, 14:3 and 14:4.

The New Testament makes it abundantly clear that Christians alone are “redeemed” through the blood of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:68, 24:21, Gal 3:13, 4:5. Titus 2:14 and 1 Peter 1:18). The unregenerate have not partook in this life-changing experience.

The Church is also known in Revelation, like elsewhere in Scriptures, as the “brethren” Such references are found in Revelation 6:11, 12:10, 19:10, 22:9.

The Church is referred to in Revelation 17:14 as the “chosen (or elect), and faithful.”

The word rendered “chosen” in the King James Version is the Greek word eklektos, and is the same word used in Matthew and Mark to describe the elect that are gathered unto Christ at His coming after the tribulation. It is the same word that is used 23 times in the New Testament to denote the redeemed, blood-bought, members of Christ’s Church!

The Church is described as “servants” in Revelation 1:1, 2:20, 7:3, 10:7, 11:18, 19:2, 19:5, 22:3 and 22:6.

The Church is described as those “in / with white robes,” who are washed in the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 3:4, 5, 18, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 13, 14, and 19:8, 14.

The Church is described as “kings and priests” in Revelation 1:6, 5:10 and 20:6.

God’s people are described as “souls” twice in Revelation, both in a heavenly context, both thus relating to the disembodied saints, in Revelation 6:9 and 20:4.

The disembodied saints are also known as “fellowservants” in Revelation 6:11.

The Church is also described as a “woman” in Revelation 12:1,4, 6,13,15,16 and 17.

The Church is also described as “the temple” in Revelation 3:12, 11:1 and 2. Notwithstanding, there are other passages in Revelation that could link the temple to the Church.

The Church in heaven is described in Revelation 14:13 as “the dead which die in the Lord.”

The Church is described in Revelation 15:2 as “them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark.”

The Church is also known in Revelation as “he/him that overcometh” (speaking in generic terms) – Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 26, 3:5, 12, 21 and 21:7.

The saints are described in Revelation 16:15 as “he that watcheth, and keepeth their garments.”

The Church is also expressed in Revelation 18:4 as “my people,” in Revelation 21:3 as “his people” and Revelation 19:1 as “much people in heaven.”

Revelation 7:9 describes God’s people in heaven as “a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues.” Revelation 5:9 says: “out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

The Church is also described as “the bride” of Christ in Revelation 18:23, 21:9, 22:17, and similarly as “the Lamb's wife” in Revelation 19:7 and 21:9.

Revelation 12:17, 14:12 and 21:14 describes the Church as “they that do/keep God’s commandments.”

The Church is also described as “the armies which were in heaven” in Revelation 19:14.

Revelation 21:24 describes the Church as “them which are saved.”

Revelation 21:27 describes the Church as “they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”

Most of the above are familiar terms used to describe the universal Church of Jesus Christ are found elsewhere in the Bible (Old and New Testament) describing God’s people the Church. These are general terms that are commonly used and perfectly understood by all sensible Christians as describing God’s chosen people throughout the centuries and throughout the nations.

There are many different references throughout the whole book of Revelation to the existence, testimony and endurance of Christians during the tribulation period. These saints are described as those that possess “the faith of Jesus” (Revelation 14:1), and consequently carry “the testimony of Jesus” (Revelation 1:2, 9, 12:17, 19:10), and are “the witness of Jesus” (Revelation 20:4). They exhibit the “patience of Jesus” (Revelation 1:9), and many become the “martyrs of Jesus” (Revelation 17:6). Frankly, if these aren’t Christians, what are they?

A passage that ably supports this supposition and locates the Christian in the tribulation period is Revelation 14:12-13, which says, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

The “patience of the saints” here in Revelation 14:12 must surely be linked to the “patience of Jesus” in Revelation 1:9.

The means by which these saints overcome the devil, the world and the flesh during great tribulation is the exact same as that employed by Christians throughout history. Those Christians that carry “the testimony of Jesus” in the tribulation are seen to conquer Satan by “the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11), again, confirming their sure unitary position within the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ.

Mamdani's policies are amazing!

ChubbyCherub said:

I disagree because Jesus Christ refers to 'writings' which He would not refer to if they were open to error. Jesus Christ is perfect and without sin. It doesn't make sense that He would use writings as a way to show He was the Messiah if they could be open to interpretation or error.

If this is not what you're suggesting, then please correct me.

Otherwise, as I said, I think a grave error is being made and needs prayer for guidance and correction.

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Why would his reference to "writings' imply an understanding that didn't develop until the 19th century?

JosephZ said:

Standing up for American women who were raped at 14, trafficked and used by rich powerful men, should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States, whom I fought for,"

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1. I am happy she's leaving politics cause she's too kooky.
But
2. The above comment is true..but
3. Come on mtg. Your lack of discernment when a whole political wing is telling you exactly what to expect, sets yourself up.

4. I've heard that she also quit just in time to receive her whole pension.


I laugh at the fact that republicans are turnning on her though. That REALLY exposes the misogynists in their ranks.

essentialsaltes said:

These insults and digs are coming from MAGA Republicans like Laura Loomer:

"Our country was built by white Europeans, actually. Not third-world invaders from India," Loomer said. "It's not racist against Indians to want the original MAGA policies I voted for."

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OK, but is this racist against Indians?

Conservative commentator Steven Crowder told Piers Morgan on Thursday that Indian immigrants were unlikely to take construction workers’ jobs because they were too “physically feeble” to perform manual labor.

"you’re very unlikely to have Indian H1-Bs in your construction company because they’re a physically feeble people."

“As far as immigrant groups, Indian Americans are among my least favorite,” he continued. “Just as far as the culture, as far as assimilation, as far as the leering, as far as full-grown men holding hands. I think it’s weird and it’s not really my jam.”

Remarking that “half their civilization lives in actual poop” as a fart sound effect played, Crowder argued, “India knows they’re not the best and the brightest"

RDKirk said:

That prospect scares the living, freaking daylights out of me.

If that happens within the military rank and file, the US military will be cooked. It would take 30 years of a consistent political environment (fat chance of that) to put it back together.

That is a suicide option.


I have spoken before about how the federal government, especially the armed elements of the federal government, are mostly classically conservative, which means they are naturally resistant to extreme changes of government direction, whether to the left or to the right.

And that's a good thing. It's what Trump ran into in his first term, but what he intends to demolish in his second term.

But what you're talking about is a misunderstanding of that classically conservative nature. It's not something that can be politically weaponized safely, it's an age-old natural characteristic of bureaucracy...even Nebuchadnezzar had to deal with it.

Trying to politically weaponize the classically conservative bureacracy will be as disastrous to the Republic as trying to eliminate it.



That is such a disastrous strategy, based on such an erroneous understanding of how the system works, that practically causes me physical pain. That career staff members today are doing such things actually gives credence to the right-wing accusations that Obama did politicize the bureaucracy.

Everything you're saying here makes me more and more fearful that the Republic will not stand another decade.



What if that had happened during the 60s when Eisenhower and Johnson sent federal troops to enforce integration rulings?

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The National Guard has a long history of shooting unarmed US citizens--protesters, strikers, rioters. None of the guardsmen themselves ever were convicted for it.

Two politicians from opposite sides get together - even though they exchanged barbs - they come out of a meeting citing commonalities and are polite to each other.

The political atmosphere is so toxic, nothing good can be stated, just jabs and toxic barbs. From both sides - it is a sad statement on the political atmosphere.

Did Mandami cave into Trump?
Did Trump cave to platitudes from Mandami?

or perhaps they both came to an amiable conversation despite their difference.

University of Tennessee: University's interests outweigh First Amendment rights of assistant professor who derided Charlie Kirk​

KNOXVILLE, Tenn — An assistant professor's social media post deriding conservative Charlie Kirk undermined the University of Tennessee's "mission" and put campus safety at risk, UTK lawyers contend in a court response to her federal lawsuit.

Shirinian, an assistant professor in cultural anthropology, is asking the federal court in Knoxville for emergency intervention so she can come back to work. UTK opposes that as indicated in its filing this week.

She's on leave with pay [as the school moves to terminate her]

BCP1928 said:

You should have stopped there.

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That is silly. We can know what we know. We can know different ways of knowing. Which tells us that even though we don't fully know we know that there are many ways of knowing yet discovered. Saying I don't know actually means being open to all ways of knowing.

BCP1928 said:

Knowledge comes from trying things out and sharing the results with others.

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Thats one form of knowledge. I gave you the example of 'Colorblind Mary'. She gained knowledge of reality without the shared scientfific knowledge. Because sharing that knowledge could not relay the knowledge of experiencing the color red. By experiencing this she gained new knowledge that sharing science could never give her.

So thats another realm of knowledge of reality that material sciences cannot give us. There may be others through direct experiences of nature and reality that science cannot share no matter what amount of shared knowledge.

ChubbyCherub said:

So what do you refer to then when suggesting that the bible is not infallible so that we may all refer to your infallible version?

That is what I am not getting from anyone. If the bible is in error, then what do you have to show that it is in error apart from thoughts and feelings?

I am not having a go at anyone. I'm genuinely baffled and trying to understand.

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Do you not trust the leading of the Holy Spirit, and need a physical object to discern His voice? The Scriptures are profitable, authoritative, and the central normative element of a broader spiritual leading. Reifying the Scriptures is nothing but having a false sense of security that doesn't fit with either the history of Christianity nor with even the slightest critical inquiry. There is no need for inerrancy to maintain the centrality of the Bible, and maintaining it in the face of evidence to the contrary damages people's faith far more often than it edifies.

Fisherking said:

It proves you are more than likely wrong on everything prophesy related, anyone who can not get the timing correct on simple things I would never heed on anything prophetic.

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In all of Scripture there is not one verse that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

Fisherking said:

The Remnant is the people who were not Raptured, the 5 of 10 Virgins maybe who missed the wedding call, who then some truly get saved, and most become Martyrs, they are THE REMNANT in Rev. 12, its not The Church which is in heaven. You take obvious truths and misconstrue them.

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You are twisting the text to support your error. Jesus said in Matthew 25:6, 10-13, “at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him … and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

The solemn side of this parable is the awful plight of the five foolish virgins who had no oil in their lamps. Like the wicked that were left in Noah’s day, the religious will cry when it is too late: “Lord, Lord, open to us.” The only problem is it is too late. The solemn cry will come from the Master, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vv 11-12). This is exactly what Jesus says to the wicked at the final judgment. He isn't saying: 'welcome to a 7 yr trib' or 'welcome to the Premil millennium for another chance'. Sadly, they are damned and doomed for all eternity. That is what happens when Jesus Comes, the elect are rescued, those left behind are destroyed.

Jesus refers to this climactic day when all men are judged when He speaks in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord ... in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Which “day” is Jesus talking about? His return. There are many people like that in this world. They have religion, but no real relationship. It says here: what they did in life was “in His name,” yet they were locked outside. They ask Jesus: “have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?” From this statement we can take it: they expected to be in heaven. However, Jesus will say to them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

wing2000 said:

...and restricts entry from other countries.

The ban, which goes into effect on Monday, bars travel to the United States by citizens of Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.

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Haiti qualified for the World Cup. But the Trump administration says its fans aren’t welcome.​

The Caribbean nation joins Iran as World Cup competitors covered by travel ban.

Haiti, which this week qualified to compete in the men’s World Cup for the first time since 1974, is covered by a travel ban President Donald Trump signed in June. The presidential proclamation restricts people from 19 countries from entering the United States, while including exemptions for players and their families, coaches and support personnel to participate in major sporting events. But the State Department confirmed to POLITICO on Friday that this exception will not apply to Haitian fans or spectators hoping to attend.

RamiC said:

Yes, this is why I was told to tell a Christian that I was reading the Bible, so that they could pray for me as I did. That is to say, the first time I did read it.

I am not Roman Catholic, and I assume it is the Catholic Catechism that you are quoting....just saying I get the two parts you have posted in here.

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Yes, those are teachings from the Catechism of the Catholic Curch.

essentialsaltes said:

That, of course, would be an even funnier outcome to this whole thing. Given the blue tilt in the few 2025 elections, something similar in 2026 could easily result in that happening. But for now, the courts have given us the less funny end to the saga.

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Oh, Alito stepped in to restore the gerrymandered maps temporarily. Will SCOTUS stall long enough to let the new maps go into effect? Will we get the funnier outcome? We'll find out.

I am wondering if the culture is what is causing peoples heart to grow corrupt on the inside while trying to present a polished and virtious image on the outside.

I think the current culture is ideal for promoting external images and narratives about morals and how woke one is. Celebs virtue signalling and people on social media shaming those who may have said the wrong thing. Bringing condemnation and severe judgements and no forgiveness.

The media age is primed for creating pharisees of all persuasions lol.

ChubbyCherub said:

And so we move onto 2 Timothy 3:16.

I believe both scriptures.

So......?

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2 Timothy 3:16 doesn't mean what you seem to believe it means, which is clear from the context since Paul's reliance on "God-breatthed" is its function in the life of faith. When we speak of the Word of God the Greek word we are referring to is logos, which is not present in 2 Timothy 3:16. The second issue is that pneumotheos is an out-breath not an in-breath so it is eisegetical to read it as inspiration.

‘We want to trust what we’ve heard’: Farmers remain unsettled on trade, even after China’s biggest U.S. soybean purchase in two years​

This week, the U.S. Department of Agriculture announced the sale of 792,000 metric tons of soybeans to China. The move follows a meeting between President Donald Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the end of last month to ease trade tensions, with China committing to resume orders of U.S. soybeans and purchase 12 million tons of of the crop by the end of the year, as well as at least 25 million tons in each of the next three years.

Earlier this month, China bought 332,000 tons of U.S. soybeans, bringing the total so far in November to more than 1 million tons.

So as long as China buys 11 million tons in December, we'll be just fine!

“We are concerned about the volatility in the trade relationships,” Main continued. “It’s hard for people to make plans—whether that’s farmers planning for next year’s crop, or buyers that are planning to make big investments in equipment or facilities or what have you—where there’s lots of instability.”

In 2024, soybeans made up about 20% of U.S. “cash crop receipts,” worth about $46.8 billion, according to USDA data. While about a quarter of those soybeans went to China, retaliatory tariffs as a result of trade disputes with Beijing hobbled the U.S. soybean industry while South American countries gobbled up market share. Brazil and Argentina are replacing U.S. farmers, with Brazil making up about 71% of China’s soybean imports, according to the American Soybean Association. Three decades ago, Brazil accounted for just 2% of those imports.

StoneX chief commodities economist Arlan Suderman said in a note earlier this month that ... China’s soybean processors have “zero financial incentive” to buy more U.S. supply because of the more affordable options from South America.