• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Multi's Thoughts and More

I'm having fun working on my Christmas animation while listening to Christmas music! :musicalnote::musicnotes: The characters look so cute in their Christmas outfits! ^_^ This animation is going to include the events from the beginning of chapter 19, the parts where they decorate the tree and play in the snow. :christmastree::snowflake:

I noticed I actually missed something in a few frames from the other animation I was making, which I'll have to add when I get the chance.

I got the Christmas decorating done, but my family still has to take care of gift shopping and baking.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

From the same intelligence that informed them that the boat was smuggling drugs. This is not just an overnight impulsive action. This is part of an ongoing intelligence operation. In fact the Biden administration knew all this.

But even logic tells you this has had an effect in slowing down the trade. If you threaten someone with consequences of lethal action on their operation.

It is completely unreal to say there will be no effect. The very principle of harsh consequences for defying the law is a deterrent. Its been part of the wests basic philosophy.
That's what we told ourselves over and over as we bombed the Ho Chi Minh Trail night after night.
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I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

Do you believe that being born again ("regeneration") is the result of the Spirit of God taking up residence within one (which is what I take you to be referring to as "spiritual baptism"), or is it the cause of the Spirit of God taking up residence.

In other words, do WE generate valid faith, or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid? (The amount of faith is another question, not related to its validity).
Do you not think God set out to destroy Nineveh in 40 days? If not, why did He tell them He was going to destroy them in 40 days? Does He have to lie to get them to repent?
It was not a lie. It was a threat. And, indeed, if they had not repented, he would have destroyed them. (By the way, if he had not intended that they repent, why would he go to all that trouble to send Jonah in the precise way that he did?
Correct, God did not set out to redeem all mankind, but He is not happy about the result that all mankind will not be saved.
That's a side issue. I'm not saying he's happy that most will perish.
Are you saying God is not capable of making us entirely free to choose without being caused/compelled to do so?
No. I'm saying that it is a logically self-contradictory notion. (Nobody but God is entirely free). So why would he even consider it? It's not that he can't. It's that it is a non-thing.
If one chooses to repent, from a corrupt spirit, is it not still a valid choice to repent, even if the power to accomplish perfectly it is lacking? Were the people of Nineveh then not really repentant, and God's mercy not the right response, since it was a corrupt and faulty repentance?
The story of Nineveh and Jonah is not about salvation, by the way, so it is not the same sort of repentance. I can go to the fridge to get cream cheese for my bagel, go to the living room where my bagel is, and when I open the cream cheese, it has gray hair growing in it. I repent of my course of action. I go back to the kitchen for something else. The people of Nineveh were wicked, God demanded they change their ways or else. This is not repentance concerning their sinfulness. It is simple repentance of what they were doing. Would you claim they loved God after that repentance? It was still corrupt. But, at least, and for a time, they stopped what they were doing.
So God can't make a being that can make a free choice. God can't do it at all, since only He is the first cause?
Define free choice. Uncaused choice? That makes no sense. Only God chooses, uncaused to do so. If you like, we can into the details of that. Can you show me how anything happens uncaused to do so? Only God is uncaused.
Why not? What prevents God from making a person that can then reject His will? Yet you are saying that no one can reject God's will--it is impossible for God to make such a creature.
Does the capability of rejecting God's commands, and even God's offer of forgiveness and salvation, imply free will? Demonstrate to me that there is anything we do entirely spontaneously. For starters: Is there anything we do that we don't most want to do at that instant of decision?
Which means that no one ever has acted against God's will, right? So everyone, for all time, has been completely within the will of God, and therefore God punishes people for doing His will, exactly as He wants them to do.
Here and above, you consider "God's will" as only one thing. The implication is that God fully intended that we all be holy as he is holy; yet, somehow, only Christ Jesus has been able to do that.

The law —all of it God's will—was given to demonstrate our sin and our need for him, because we are unable to obey it perfectly, and so we deserve death. We need his mercy. Even you don't believe that is all that his will is. He also wills for things to happen quite apart from his law. And those things are a little harder to know. So there are at least two things that are called/considered the will of God. The one thing is not the same as the other. If you think God never intended for Lucifer to rebel and Adam to sin, then why did he bother to make us? He made us to be the Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ, the Children of God, the Dwelling Place of God, his People with Him in a way the angels can never be. And THAT would not happen, but for Redemption.

So everyone has acted against his command (his revealed will), but none of us can ruin his plans (his hidden will). He doesn't fly by the seat of his pants to accomplish some general end. Read the prophets where repeatedly God used foreign kings to punish Israel —even refers to one of them as a tool— and then punishes them for doing so. They were not obeying. They were only accomplishing what God had planned for them to do. Do you think that Satan will not have to pay for what he did to Job? Yet God put him up to it, fully intending that that beautiful book would be read by his people.
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Will Russiagate scandal forever taint Obama’s legacy?

If we end up with Trump as a forever president, as dictatorships go (though at his age "forever" is a stretch) don't worry you'll probably get your dream of imprisoning political opponents and dissident voices.

And all of us anti-Trump folk will get to live out our lives in concentration camps and reeducation centers.

Daddy Trump will make the "leftists" pay for exercising their constitutional guaranteed free speech. Because in Trump's America, dissent is the same thing as treason.

MAGA utopia at its finest.
Why is it that people on the left didn’t bat an eye when Obama broke the law and spied on his political opponent, or when Biden unleashed the power of the federal government against his political opponent, but when those very same people are being held accountable for their crimes, all of the sudden Trump is the dictator with nefarious plans for the country when he did absolutely nothing similar to all that nonsense in his first term?

Projection at its highest.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

I don't know who that is.
Nicolás Maduro Moros Venezuelas president.
Well... I was discussing the legality and morality of it, so ... I'm not interested in your "ends justify the means" "morality".
Why, even though that is not my position as you wrongly assume.

But what is the basis that you can justify your morality that rejects other peoples morality when you dismiss it ie (interested in your "ends justify the means" "morality").

You may not be interested in other pooples moral position but you can't just reject it as wrong. No more than anyone can reject your view and belief. Because its all a belief and subjective position.

If you think you can win this by authority of consensus then this does not work either.
I didn't say anything about negotiations. I was talking about criminal interdiction of criminal activity.
And what was the criminal activity. Are you basing this on unsupported assumptions. Trying to ccreate a narrative that is accusing someone of moral wrong when there is not justification.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Oh. I had not heard that. What is your source the boats have all but stopped?
From the same intelligence that informed them that the boat was smuggling drugs. This is not just an overnight impulsive action. This is part of an ongoing intelligence operation. In fact the Biden administration knew all this.

But even logic tells you this has had an effect in slowing down the trade. If you threaten someone with consequences of lethal action on their operation.

It is completely unreal to say there will be no effect. The very principle of harsh consequences for defying the law is a deterrent. Its been part of the wests basic philosophy.

Its also inconsistent. If we are going to start strutinising about data as to what is moral then why has not these same people been morally outraged at the silence of allowing a million people dies from drugs in a generation. More than all major wars of the 20th century.

Why have not they acted on the clear data that shows drugs are killing 1,000s of people everyday. Why has not anyone questions the policies that have actually caused increases in drugs, crime and addiction.

But as soon as Trump takes action people start complaining about morals. Where were the morals for the last generation of people who were needlessly killed and all the devastation and damage done to society.

Like I said neither side has the moral justification to start moralising. What Trumps actions have exposed into the light of reality is how the past actions have not worked. Whatever the moral basis it has not worked and made things worse.

So this has highlighted a moral dilemma for people, for the future direction of how we deal with these issues. I think we have lost our way and become too soft. Perhaps Trump is going too much the other way. But this is the moral dilemma I think not just the US but the western world faces.

This is how big and serious these recent actions and approaches represent in the way we structure society including ethical. Which includes the whole idea of law and punishment and consequences ect in how we deal with these issues.
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Trump rolls back fuel efficiency standards for vehicles

Even before Trump took office, the U.S. was producing more oil and gas than any nation on the planet
Yet everyone is praising China for its progress in renewable energy. I could probably say that the US is responsible for all the pollution in the world with no need for reference.

A recent article in the Maoist leftist Nation magazine tells us China is the world’s climate champion. Yet, right in the middle of their article they admit China is the largest emitter of carbon gases in the world and responsible 90% of the growth of CO 2 emissions since 2015.


Per the Maoist Nation article:


China’s advances are especially good news, because China is the world’s biggest emitter of carbon gases—and by a long shot: The country is responsible for 90 percent of the growth in CO2 emissions since 2015. Today, its share of total emissions is 32 percent, far ahead of the US (13 percent), India (8 percent), and the EU (6 percent).



Maybe China can mine 99% of the coal in the world in its transition to “clean” energy. If Trump mines less than 1% of it, the anti MAGA, international federation can blame conservative Americans for the next natural disaster that can only be a result of maga induced “climate change.”
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FBI makes arrest in investigation into pipe bombs placed in DC on eve of Jan. 6 riot, AP source says

I wouldn't be surprised if he's seen as a hero, by many within GenZ, who since the killing of Charlie Kirk, have taken the stance that politically motivated violence is "acceptable".


Gen Z is headed down a path that could threaten the future stability of American democracy and society," said Jordan Schwartz, student chair of the Harvard Public Opinion Project.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

And here we have another person who thinks killing those two men in the water after their boat had been sunk was a righteous act. It must be just a coincidence that you happen to be a Christian as well.
Your conflating a bunch of things just to attack Christians or people who are posing alternative views. Now where have I heard this before I wonder lol.

Show me where I said that anything out of this situation is good. In fact I clearly stated that no matter how you look at this situation its all no good. That this is an ethical dilemma between two hard ethical situations.

I also pointed out that the conflation of assuming a moral position on what actually happened based on legacy media is unjustified. But you don't seem to get this and you keep making logical fallacies in order to put the blame all on Christians or some moralising of your personal views and beliefs being projected into this situation.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

I actually said the boats have just about stopped. That particular method of smuggling the drugs has almost be completely stopped. Based on the fact that the warnings were given and then the action was taken and the warning that any further boats will also be targeted.

That changes the ball game. Now the Narcos have to access the risk. Before there was no risk and now there is. The risk of being blown out of the water, being killed and losing all their drugs. Its a pretty big factor that is now being forced onto the narcos which has changed the game.
Oh. I had not heard that. What is your source the boats have all but stopped?
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At first I thought this was another Onion parody, but...

I certainly hope it was a joke. She's not the brightest person in the world, but that would be world-class stupid, wouldn't it? My first impression was that it was satire. Apparently not.
When I listened to the conversation, the room broke out in laughter when she said that part. She is dumb but I would say that she was joking.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

I don't believe this is a situation that falls under the Law of Armed Conflict though.
ALL situations involving US military forces in armed hostile activity falls under the LOAC. These people would be classified as "Unprivileged Belligerents."

Unprivileged belligerents include members of organized armed groups and civilians directly participating in hostilities (see 5.4.1.1). Members of organized armed groups are subject to attack at any time during the armed conflict unless they are hors de combat. Unprivileged belligerents placed hors de combat are not considered POWs, but must be treated humanely. Civilians directly participating in hostilities forfeit the protections from attack afforded to civilians under the law of armed conflict and may be attacked while they are taking a direct part in hostilities. If captured, they are not considered POWs and may be tried and punished under domestic law.

Shipwrecked persons include those in peril at sea or in other waters as a result of the sinking, grounding, or other damage to a vessel in which they are embarked, or of the downing or distress of an aircraft. It is immaterial whether the peril was the result of enemy action or nonmilitary causes. Following each naval engagement at sea, the belligerents are obligated to take all
possible measures, consistent with the security of their forces, to search for and rescue the shipwrecked. The status of persons detained—combatant, unprivileged belligerent, noncombatant, or civilian—does not change as a result of becoming incapacitated by wounds, sickness, shipwreck, or surrender. The decision to continue detention of persons hors de combat and the status of such detainees will be determined by their prior
classification.

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