Hiding the Gospel and Scripture in cloaks of tradition and ritual is what gets us ready to engage in Scripture-slinging spiritual warfare, but other than that we’re pretty chill. Occasionally we might have to disown somebody like John MacArthur who spends time attacking people for no reason and makes egregious theological errors though. Starting fights with other churches makes us look bad.
I agree. The bickering that goes on between one religious sect and another religious sect is popular but unprofitable. Although Paul did take advantage of this popular practice to divert attention away from the false accusation against him of teaching against God's Laws that the mainstream religions of his time engaged in. (Pharisees vs, Sadducees)
So as far as I know, we don’t use our schools to fight with other schools and we certainly are not interested in being like the Pharisees in our teaching styles. Well, except for the Master’s college, but that school is run by John MacArthur’s ego, so let’s just throw them out as irrelevant. I most certainly disown their elitism.
But isn't your emotional response towards this Famous theologian who is followed and believed on by millions of people, only because you chose to adopt a different theology?
Think about that. To judge one man, who transformed himself into an Apostle of Christ, who was trained by this world's religious schools, the
Talbot Theological Seminary, earning a
Master of Divinity in 1964, as irrelevant, because they paid a different school to train them than one you might approve of. At least this is what I understand of your post.
What is the difference really, between the teaching of MacArthur and Swindoll, who received certification from Dallas Theological Seminary?
Where is there any evidence that these two were chosen by the Lord's Christ to teach me about God?
Isn't the teachers that Jesus and His Father chose, and gave to this world, good enough?
So here we are, back to the very beginning with my question, where did these traditions come from? It's total confusion. From the very beginning men are instructed by God to leave the religion of their fathers and follow Him. Abraham and Paul are perfect examples of this very thing. Zacharias and Simeon and Anna understood this and Yielded themselves, not to the teaching of Gamaliel, but yielded themselves to God in obedience to His Laws. And if you read Luke 1&2, you will see that they knew the Gospel of Christ that the Israelites rejected in the wilderness, and the Pharisees rejected when it was shown to them, and lived by it, long before Jesus was even born.
As a result they lived by Faith, looking for the Salvation that was prophesied to come, in obedience to God as defined by the Holy Scriptures. So when Jesus came, they knew Him. While the great theologians of the world, who had exclusive possession of the same Gospel, didn't know who Jesus was when HE was working miracles right in front of their face. Truly Peter, the rock in which Jesus built His Church, was right when he told us that God gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. And Paul was right, who Jesus also chose, when he said that it doesn't matter if we are a Jew or a Gentile, all that matters is Keeping the commandments of God, as it is also written, "
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
I truly appreciate the reply, and the thoughtful way you engaged. And I understand I am in the severe minority, believing that if the Holy Scriptures are true, and everyone submitted to them, there would no religious schools, their would be no smorgasbord of religious sects all coming in Christ's Name", but promoting different philosophies. There would be no massive religious businesses all competing against each other for contributing members without which their religion would collapse.
But that isn't the world we live in. And God said HE would leave these things to prove us, whether or not we would walk in His Laws or not.
But someday, this will be the world men live in. And I am waiting for this city, a continuing city wherein dwells righteousness, as it is written;
2 Pet. 3:
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14Wherefore,(Because of this) beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye "may be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.
This is the Prize Paul pressed towards, and one I press towards as well. I truly believe this Prize is not found in this world's religious schools or religious sects, rather, it is found when a person chooses to "
present their bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is our reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
But who am I, a nobody.
What I was referring to was the Dallas Theological Seminary, which is very inclusive in their doctrinal statement. I think a Christian of almost any Protestant stripe could attend there unbothered, including the SDAs and Messianics. In fact, I have reason to suspect that some actually have.
But when you build a school, there are those who teach at the school, and of the teachers, there will be researchers and scholars who decide what is to be taught. That’s just how schools work. There are people whose job is to know the worldwide mission field like a 3-D chess game and to train people for new mission opportunities, whether pastor or missionary.
And then, inevitably, these scholars will reach necessary consensus on certain issues, which are then taught to the pastors who teach it to their congregations. That is a way of keeping order and making sure that the pastors and missionaries are following the Scriptures. Most of these consensuses are practical, like refusing same-sex marriages to be conducted on church property or saying we don’t allow abuse as a valid reason for a biblical divorce, etc.
In this case, imagine yourself as a union less factory worker in 1863 when the SDA church was founded up in Michigan. Having a day of rest to the Lord would have been a relief to them from the constant toil and long hours in the workplace. That’s part of why that church has held on against the mainline work ‘em til they die American culture, by venerating the 4th commandment as a pushback. It provides relief. Likewise, the Zadok consensus appeals to the Messianic Jews and their theological needs. It’s a practical consensus for them to keep the Law to honor their heritage and keep the peace with their fellow law keeping Jews. The bottom line is:
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
We are warned in the Holy scriptures about religions of this world.
Jer. 23:
16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth "of the LORD".
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one "that walketh after the imagination of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.
I don't believe to "
live peaceably with all men", means to adopt their religious philosophy, or to promote to others that it doesn't matter to God how a man lives. The hardest lesson it seems, would be to know when it is time to move on, instead of always defending oneself or having the last word. It is one of my great struggles, I say to my shame.
Likewise, the mainline consensus is practical for people in occupations that don’t allow them to consistently rest on Saturday, like emergency service workers or postal carriers. You’re not apostate for delivering the mail on Saturday, says that consensus: your Sabbath rest is in Christ. Not only that, but our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and He is working on Saturday too. No priest was breaking the Sabbath by working in the temple, and the temple was not breaking the Sabbath by being used, and neither are we.
Well one thing is for certain, there were thousands of sick people in Israel every day of Jesus' Life. And HE had the power to create or instruct the Body to create healing centers and hire people on God's Sabbaths to man them and keep them clean, to heal all the sick people of His Time. But HE didn't. He even spoke about this as it pertained to Elisha's time, and Naaman's. So there is a truth and a teaching here. But I don't believe the teaching was to promote God's Church to inject themselves into this world's 24/7 healthcare system.
The Pharisees were selling sacrifices on God's Holy Sabbaths, and the money exchangers were working to, and no doubt they "justified" their behavior by telling themselves they were promoting the Law of Moses.. The problem it seems, if we have been taught, by religions like the Pharisees, to "Justify" whatever lifestyle a man chooses. If a man wants to make another 52 days a year worth of wages, to increase his power, because in this world money is power, then he will work on God's Holy Sabbath, and justify it by quoting a verse in the Bible, separating it from the rest of the bible, and then point to is and say, "See, God Wants me to work on His Holy Sabbath". We are drawn away from this truth by a religious world that despises God's Judgments defining what is clean, Holy, Righteous and good, and have gone about establishing their own righteousness, holiness and clean. A world that despised the Feasts of the Lord, and have created their own high days instead. A world that has polluted God's Holy Sabbath, and have created their own. It was the same in Jesus Time, in David's Time, in Abraham's Time, in Noah's Time, and in Abel's time as well.
What I have come to understand is that the Sabbath Commandment means nothing, unless it is honored and obeyed from the heart. Just as killing a goat for your sins meant nothing, if it wasn't representative of the sorrow and repentance from a contrite heart.
At least this is become my understanding, having set apart His Sabbath in respect and honor and Love for God. Not because a theologian named Miller or White directed me to do so, but because the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, who I have Yielded myself a servant to obey, directed me to do so. At first I couldn't see the profitability of such a commandment. But having obeyed from the heart, my understanding has changed, and I am very thankful for the instruction to fast from the rigors of this evil world, on a day "God" Esteems as above others, not a religious tradition of some man who has transformed himself into an Apostle of God.
It’s a strange reality to think about the fact that a temple can deliver your mail or heal your wound or tend a garden or do all the other things that humans do, but it is true. We aren’t God, but we are serving Him now with everything we do, and that should take some pressure off.
It is certainly good to have such discussions in such an evil world. And I appreciate your reply.
