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fhansen · 2025-10-09T19:41:05-0500

ARBITER01 said:
As far as I'm able to understand it, salvation to Catholics is not an experiential thing. In other words, they don't have that answer from heaven about it.

They have the same answer from God than anyone else has. Sometimes those answers are ineffably profound experiences, more often than not it's a matter of walking by faith, without bells and whistles.

A New Dawn · 2025-10-09T19:40:51-0500

fhansen said:
Excuse me if I object but to me that sounds more like a concept than an experience, especially an experience which is born out over time.

It might be rubbish if a person could identify with infallible certainty exactly who were given to Jesus

You obviously have never met any persons who had similar experiences to Saul/Paul. And you seem to be discounting his experience, also. You really should get to know the experiences of people in the Bible as well as you think you know what they teach. Or better, since you don’t seem to understand what is laid out clearly by Jesus concerning how the salvation process works.

d taylor · 2025-10-09T19:38:42-0500

-

Judas was never a believer, so Judas lost nothing.

DreamyLaLa · 2025-10-09T19:38:40-0500

Multifavs said:
To celebrate one year of modeling in Blender, I modified my bee model (which was my first Blender project) to make a firefly and white butterfly! (The actual anniversary date was October 3, but I didn't feel up to modeling that day.)
View attachment 371266
View attachment 371267

Here's all three of them together!
View attachment 371268

So cute!

Do you have fireflies where you live? I've never seen one in real life.

Douggg · 2025-10-09T19:34:14-0500

RandyPNW said:
My own belief, though highly speculative, is that when Jesus comes again to earth, he will bring his glorified Church with him. However, being that we will have become immortals we may go back and forth dimensionally from the earthly plane to the heavenly plane, just like the angels.

I agree.

BPPLEE · 2025-10-09T19:34:04-0500

essentialsaltes said:
Antifa expert at Rutgers University says he is moving to Spain because of death threats
Some students involved in the Rutgers chapter of Turning Point USA, the political group founded by Charlie Kirk, began circulating an online petition that claimed Bray was an “outspoken, well-known antifa member” and referred to him as “Dr. Antifa” while calling for his dismissal.

I suppose people who can be relied upon to confuse "teaching Christianity" with "teaching about Christianity" are pretty much guaranteed to confuse "teaching about anti-fascism" and "teaching anti-fascism".

I would have to attend his class to know which one he was doing

Bradskii · 2025-10-09T19:32:24-0500

Oompa Loompa said:
Does this mean Jesus lacked empathy when he told the woman to go and sin no more?

Why would you correlate those two things? It makes no sense whatsoever.

David Hunter · 2025-10-09T19:30:34-0500

rebornfree said:
That was really interesting David. Thanks for sharing. Praise God for the donor! It sounds like your group was really well organised. I agree with you about prayer. We all need to do it, but do you have a prayer team who pray for your ministry?

My pleasure! So, we all prayed while there and leading up to the event, and then I know people from my local evangelism group and others from my church were praying (I'm sure others from the NYC group had people praying for them, too).

And, when I do local evangelism, we always pray before and after, and then one of our sisters stays behind and prayers while we evangelize.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-10-09T19:24:50-0500

ThatRobGuy said:
Trump’s Name Chanted in Israel AND Gaza After Peace Deal: ‘Nobel Prize to Trump!’

Israelis and Gazans alike celebrated into the night, chanting President Donald Trump’s name after he announced a peace deal to bring hostages home, with chants in Israel calling for him to be awarded his much-coveted Nobel Peace Prize.

www.yahoo.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/10/09/politics/trump-nobel-prize-analysis

(CNN)
A Washington Post-Ipsos poll last month showed even about half of Republicans said Trump didn’t deserve one. Just 22% of Americans overall said that he did.

But on Wednesday a Trump Nobel suddenly became more plausible with the announcement of a phase-one ceasefire deal in Gaza.

Much remains to be ironed out, and time will tell how successful it is. The news also didn’t seem to arrive in time for this year’s prize announcement, which happens to be Friday.

But even some nonpartisan foreign policy experts and Trump critics are starting to take the possibility more seriously, albeit for next year.

“If the peace plan moves forward, Mr. Trump may have as legitimate a claim to that Nobel as the four American presidents who have won the peace prize in the past,” longtime New York Times national security reporter David Sanger wrote, “though with less bombast and lobbying.”

And it came after Trump took some remarkable steps. His administration has made a point to build relations with Middle Eastern leaders and make them a key part of the process. And perhaps most notably, Trump has exerted an unusual amount of pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Matthew 16:26:
"For what has a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul.....
Be blessed

RocksInMyHead · 2025-10-09T19:23:36-0500

Servus said:
Title 10 of the U.S. Code grants the President authority over the National Guard and provides specific powers for their deployment,

Right.

Servus said:
particularly within the United States during domestic emergencies established by the Constitution.

Which the current situation does not meet.

Dan Perez · 2025-10-09T19:16:44-0500

Bro.T said:
The book say in 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. This is talking about the first resurrection and those who after the white throne judgement. Only then you can't sin no more.

Let's take a look at Jesus for an example of born of God, and of we know Jesus did no sin. But let's read that in 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Let's go to John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Take a look at the 12th verse. It states, "The ones that received him he gave them power to become the sons of God.” Remember that you will only become a Son of God if you follow His word. Look at the 14th verse. Notice it says he is the only begotten of the Father.

What does only mean? If He (Jesus) is the only one born of God how can anyone make the statement they are born again. Only means only. If you are born of God you will not be able to sin any longer. Read this carefully in I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Can anyone say they commit no sin? No! If you are born (born again) into the God family you must be a spirit being. Here is another verse stating Jesus is the only begotten son.

So when Jesus died and born again he had a different Body and can do other things like pop up from nowhere, etc. Look at what 1 Peter says in Ch 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Paul confirm what Peter says the same thing in 1 Corthinan 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Let's go into Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Look at verse 31, once they realized that it was Jesus they spoke with, what happen? He vanished out of their sight. Remember in John chapter 3 and verse 8. The Lord gave an example of how a spirit would look. He likened a spirit to the wind.( John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.)

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Again in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, ando the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before.

This is what John 3:5 says !!

# 1. Jesus answered ?? IESOUS , is. in. the. Nominative Case , in. the Singular

# 2. ANSWERED //. APOKRNOMI , in. the Aorist Tense , in. the MIDDLE VOICE , in. the Indicative Mood. , in. the SINGULAR

# 3 I. Say //. LEGO . in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the INDICATIVE MOOD , in. the. SIGNULAR

# 4. UNTO THEE //. SOI , is. a PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN. , in. the DATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 5. EXCEPT // ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE. NEGATIVE.

# 6. A MAN // TIS , is indefinite article. , in. the nominative CASE , in the SINGULAR

# 7. BE BORN //. GENNAO , in. the. AORIST TENSE , isa SUBJUNATIVE TENSE , in. the Singular

# 8 OF // EK , is a PREPOSTION

# 9 WATER // HYDOR , in. the GENITIVE CASE in. th SINGULAT in. the NEUTER

# 10 AND // KAI , is. a CONJUNCATION

# 11 THE SPIRIT //. PNUEMA , in the GENITIVE CASE in the SIGNULAR , in. the NEUTER

# 12. HE CANNOT // DYANNAI , in. the PRESENT TENSE , in. the MIDDLE VOICE , in a INDICATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR

# 13. ENTER // EXSERCHOMAI. , in. the AORIST TENSE , in. the ACTIVE VOICE ,

# 14 INTO // EIS , PREPOSTION.

# 15. THE KINGDOM //. BASLEIA. ,, in. the. ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 16 OF GOD //. THEOS. , in. the GENITIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR

And my question is Hoe re you BORN of WATER and of the SPIRIT. ??

Can. you give a clear verse ??

dan p

Oompa Loompa · 2025-10-09T19:12:24-0500

ThatRobGuy said:
Trump’s Name Chanted in Israel AND Gaza After Peace Deal: ‘Nobel Prize to Trump!’

Israelis and Gazans alike celebrated into the night, chanting President Donald Trump’s name after he announced a peace deal to bring hostages home, with chants in Israel calling for him to be awarded his much-coveted Nobel Peace Prize.

www.yahoo.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/10/09/politics/trump-nobel-prize-analysis

(CNN)
A Washington Post-Ipsos poll last month showed even about half of Republicans said Trump didn’t deserve one. Just 22% of Americans overall said that he did.

But on Wednesday a Trump Nobel suddenly became more plausible with the announcement of a phase-one ceasefire deal in Gaza.

Much remains to be ironed out, and time will tell how successful it is. The news also didn’t seem to arrive in time for this year’s prize announcement, which happens to be Friday.

But even some nonpartisan foreign policy experts and Trump critics are starting to take the possibility more seriously, albeit for next year.

“If the peace plan moves forward, Mr. Trump may have as legitimate a claim to that Nobel as the four American presidents who have won the peace prize in the past,” longtime New York Times national security reporter David Sanger wrote, “though with less bombast and lobbying.”

And it came after Trump took some remarkable steps. His administration has made a point to build relations with Middle Eastern leaders and make them a key part of the process. And perhaps most notably, Trump has exerted an unusual amount of pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Trump is not getting the Nobel peace prize. I would be shocked if he did.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-10-09T19:10:45-0500

Fantine said:
Essentialsaltes, this is what happen when conservative churches call empathy a "sin."

Is empathy a sin? Some conservative Christians argue it can be

Those Christians claim empathy can manipulate people into accepting what they see as sins, like abortion access and LGBTQ+ rights.

www.pbs.org

What would Jesus say? Here's what Pope Leo has said about nominally "Christian" churches preaching callous disregard for human suffering:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-10's
/pope-leo-faith-cannot-be-separated-from-love-for-the-poor.html

Through God's grace, we have been given an American leader of the global Catholic Church to counteract the bad judgment of American voters, who have endangered not only our country but the entire world with their misguided presidential choice. May he stay strong. May true Christians recognize that empathy and conpassion are the ways of Jesus, and cruelty and callousness are inspired by the Prince of Darkness.

Does this mean Jesus lacked empathy when he told the woman to go and sin no more?

BPPLEE · 2025-10-09T19:06:46-0500

ARBITER01 said:
Judas lost his salvation, Esau lost his birthright/salvation, satan lost his place in heaven, etc.

Betrayal is not just renouncing, it is a turning from the truth to willfully oppose GOD. There is no salvation available for such a person, as Hebrews states.

They all made a decision, you don’t just backslide and lose your salvation, it’s a conscious decision to turn away. and reject Christ

essentialsaltes · 2025-10-09T19:04:12-0500

iluvatar5150 said:
In an article about this specific entry, Kirk engages in a nicely disingenuous bit of wordsmithing when he pushes back by saying, "We never... threaten [professors] with phrases like “you’re on our list”

No, Charlie, you didn't say "you're on a list." You just put them on a list and let your followers do the rest.

Antifa expert at Rutgers University says he is moving to Spain because of death threats

Some students involved in the Rutgers chapter of Turning Point USA, the political group founded by Charlie Kirk, began circulating an online petition that claimed Bray was an “outspoken, well-known antifa member” and referred to him as “Dr. Antifa” while calling for his dismissal.

I suppose people who can be relied upon to confuse "teaching Christianity" with "teaching about Christianity" are pretty much guaranteed to confuse "teaching about anti-fascism" and "teaching anti-fascism".

Postvieww · 2025-10-09T19:04:01-0500

Maria Billingsley said:
Yes, let's look at Jack Smith accused of being above the law who utilized the FBI for investigative work, including executing search warrants and analyzing evidence like phone records.

This sounds like a sanitized version of what actually happened. If Jack Smith operated within the law he has nothing to worry about.

Maria Billingsley said:
The FBI cannot legally be above the law because it is a government entity bound by the U.S. Constitution and federal law.

That is what should be the case but it is not what happened under the Biden administration.

Maria Billingsley said:
Concerns about the FBI "operating above the law" are unwarranted because the senators who disclosed the information stated that the investigative step was authorized by a grand jury subpoena.

We shall see if you are right.

Maria Billingsley said:
Now what is Kash Patel threatening to do? He wants to fire those who followed the law to appease the need for retribution by the current President.

False!

Maria Billingsley said:
Now who is really acting above the law here? Let us reason. Please.

We shall see who thought they were untouchable when these many cases are concluded. Everyone deserves their day in court .

eclipsenow · 2025-10-09T19:03:39-0500

Servus said:
Title 10 of the U.S. Code grants the President authority over the National Guard and provides specific powers for their deployment, particularly within the United States during domestic emergencies established by the Constitution.

Yes - but protestors are not the scale of emergency that this bill talks about - or that Trump is pretending they are.

Portland and Chicago do NOT look like cities from WW2 - Trump's betraying his ignorance and capacity to just lie through his teeth.

They're normal modern cities with a few protestors.

He just doesn't like it when people disagree with him being King - and just kicking people out of the country without due process.

sjastro · 2025-10-09T19:03:14-0500

To further illustrate that @stevevw doesn't know what he is talking about, here is the method used by Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy for determining circularity.

They are both using the method of least squares which is a curve fitting exercise.

By comparison circularity known as roundness in ISO 1101 uses MCZ (minimum circle zone) which is defined as all points fitting inside two concentric circles (Figure 81).

Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy use a curve fitting method which focuses on average error minimization, not maximum deviation where measured points may be excluded for being too far or too close relative to the fitted circle.
In the ISO 1100 method all points are included even statistical outliers which are excluded in the least square method, furthermore the more circular the cross section the less the radii difference between the concentric circles.

The least square method makes makes cross sections look more circular compared to MCZ which is used by all professional metrology software conforming to ISO 1101.
Given the near perfect symmetry and circularity nonsense spouted by @stevevw it's not surprising this is the case when amateur software is used.

Tuur · 2025-10-09T19:02:27-0500

Now let's see it all work when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow.

PTW · 2025-10-09T19:02:12-0500

Ed, Edd n Eddy

Oompa Loompa · 2025-10-09T19:02:05-0500

Fantine said:
Frivolous, like 99% of the charges brought by the Trump DOJ. I look at an indictment by this DOJ as an indication of sterling character and honesty.

Had it been the other way around and Trump was being indicted,democrats wouldn't think it would be frivolous then.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-09T19:01:37-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Someone should reboot Stephen Miller.

RocksInMyHead said:
Please don't.

This exchange wins the internet!

Tuur · 2025-10-09T19:01:13-0500

HARK! said:
As of July 1, 2025, gold will officially be classified as a Tier 1, high-quality liquid asset (HQLA) under the Basel III banking regulations. That means U.S. banks can count physical gold, at 100% of its market value, toward their core capital reserves. No longer will it be marked down by 50% as a “Tier 3” asset, as it was under the old rules.

Then let me spell it out: Anyone who takes out a loan to finance speculative investment had better hope that the rate of return is greater than the interest he's paying on his loan. If he's looking for a profit. that difference in interests, less handling fees, is going to be all the money he sees. If the rate of return is less, then he's under water on his investment. If he's invested so much that he had to take out a loan, he better hope he doesn't run into cash-flow problems before it's paid off. He better hope that it's not a bubble that goes pop. And he better hope no one comes along and does to his investment what the Hunt brothers tried to do with silver. Keep in mind that the banks that went under when the real estate bubble popped were absolutely convinced they would make a profit until all of a sudden they didn't.

You mentioned having physical possession of the gold. This is good. If someone doesn't have it in their hands, he better hopes the company that says he has that gold in a vault really does, or doesn't go under, or society doesn't break down to the point where he can't sell those certificates. But if someone has that gold in their hands, that raises other issues. One is disposing of it. You have to hope where you want to spend it will take gold, then you have to hope it doesn't get out that you have gold. I know of a man who was literally knocked in the head over a century ago because it got out he had a stash of gold. Once anyone learns you have gold, security will be an issue, particularly if things are so bad that society is breaking down.

Bro.T · 2025-10-09T19:00:24-0500

Mercy Shown said:
Some interpreters of Romans 3:20 suggest that Paul must be speaking of two different laws—perhaps distinguishing between the ceremonial law and the moral law. But a closer look at the text shows that this is not the case.

First, the Greek text itself does not support such a division. Paul uses the singular nomos (“law”) throughout the passage. Both the phrases “works of the law” and “through the law” are singular. There is no grammatical shift to suggest that he has two different laws in view. Paul is treating the law as one unified whole.

Second, the immediate context confirms this unity. In Romans 3:9–19, Paul has just demonstrated from a series of Old Testament quotations that all people—Jew and Gentile alike—are under sin. Then in verse 19 he concludes, “whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped.” Here, “the law” plainly refers to the Torah as a whole, functioning as God’s covenant standard. Verse 20 follows directly from this point: “For by works of the law no human being will be justified.” Paul is drawing one conclusion from one law, not from two.

Third, Paul’s real contrast in this passage is not between ceremonial and moral law, but between law and faith. He makes this explicit in verse 21: “But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law…through faith in Jesus Christ.” The issue is not which kind of law could justify, but rather that no form of law-keeping justifies at all. Justification comes by faith in Christ alone.

Paul makes the same point in Galatians 2:16, almost word for word: “a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.” There too, Paul refers to Torah as a whole—circumcision, dietary regulations, and moral commands alike. He never divides it into two separate laws to explain justification.

Finally, we should note that Jewish thought at the time did not separate the law into “moral” and “ceremonial” categories. Torah was seen as a unified covenant given at Sinai, binding in all its parts. When Paul says “the law,” his Jewish and Gentile audience would have understood it to mean that covenantal law in its entirety, not two different systems.

In light of these considerations, Romans 3:20 does not refer to two different laws. Paul consistently uses “the law” to mean the Torah in its entirety. His argument is that no form of law-keeping—whether ritual observance or moral obedience—can justify a sinner before God. The law reveals sin, but it cannot remove it. Justification comes only through faith in Christ.

Paul says in Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. In other words if there is no law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed or no blame can be accredited to any person when there is no law. Now, let’s see what Sin is according to the Bible in I John 3:4 it states, "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So if the law was nailed to the cross that would mean its okay to use the Lords name in vain, put other gods before HIM, make graven images and bow before them, pollute the Sabbath day, steal, commit murder, commit adultery and bear false witness. If all these things are okay to commit, then we might as well throw the Bible out the back door and do what ever feels good to us.

We will see that Paul was in fact a law keeper and how he preached out of the Law and the Prophets.

Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord?

Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.

Let's go into Paul's writings and take another look at both of these laws. We will go into the Book of Galatians chapter 3. This is one of the chapters that the majority of Christian preachers use to do away with the Lord's commandments. Now, let's read carefully!

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Take heed to what Paul's says above, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions." What is transgression? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) Transgression is braking of the commandments. What law was added because of the braking of the law? The sacrificial law! Paul is simply asking these Gentiles, "why perform the sacrificial law? It was added because of sin until the seed should come. Who is the seed?

Let's back up in this chapter and find out.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16) Who is the SEED? CHRIST! So, this law was added (which is the sacrificial law) until Christ came. What was the sacrificial law used for until Christ came? Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

The sacrificial law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Before we continue, we must clear one thing up. Are we justified by faith alone? Let's see. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31) What law is established? Certainly not the sacrificial law, we have seen above that it was added because of transgression until the Seed came (which was Christ). The Royal law to be established forever which are the Ten Lords commandments!

Chesterton · 2025-10-09T18:59:41-0500

partinobodycular said:
Harking back to a previous a post, when the time comes, which seems to be rapidly approaching, that AI can pass the Turing test, or any test that we can devise, will you accept that it's conscious under the same premise... that its consciousness is as real as it needs to be? Will you grant it the right to vote.

Firstly, the movie clip I posted did not indicate that consciousness is as real as it needs to be. It indicated that external reality, as perceived by consciousness, is as real as it needs to be. Consciousness is separate. It's the judge and jury doing the perceiving.

Anyway, whenever I say I have free will, atheist types respond with "no, you only experience the appearance of free will". If I say "the universe and life certainly look like they were designed", they say "no, they only have the appearance of design". So I say, yes, AI may come to have the appearance of consciousness.

Would I let it vote? Only if Elon Musk selects the team who designs it.

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Antifa expert at Rutgers University says he is moving to Spain because of death threats​

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Antifa expert at Rutgers University says he is moving to Spain because of death threats

Antifa expert at Rutgers University says he is moving to Spain because of death threats