Delvianna said:

On a foundational level, I agree.

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You cannot be One with God, through baptism, and I cannot be One with God, through baptism, without us also being One with each other, even if we can't understand that.

This was a vision God gave me many years ago.

I accept all who God has revealed himself to as brothers and sister in Christ. I love all as we are called.

Vice President Vance lists what the Democratic Party in Congress accomplished because of this Schumer Shutdown.

Freth said:

The "as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" makes sense when you consider it was the great commission to spread the gospel and save as many as possible. Notice, "unto the ends of the earth;" the whole world.

Given verse 47, there is no other way to interpret the verse but appointment unto salvation for all.

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You're still not addressing what is explicitly stated in verse 48. You're collapsing the scope of the mission with the identity of those saved. Verse 47 states the geographical extent of the apostolic commission. Verse 48 states the particularity of the effect. "To the ends of the earth" tells us where the gospel is to be preached, not who will infallibly believe it. Verse 48 does tell us who will infallibly believe it. Luke's syntax is painfully clear:


This identifies the believers as the ones who had been appointed. It does not say "all were appointed." It says the ones who were appointed, believed.

Freth said:

1. God is not a respecter of persons.

In the very book of Acts, just two chapters before, Peter says that God is not a respecter of persons. James says that respecting persons is a sin. God's very character is being called into question: For God would be sinning if He were a respecter of persons, appointing some to belief, but others not. Indeed this cannot be the case and is not the case.

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

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"God is not a respecter of persons" (προσωπολήμπτης) does not mean "God treats all people identically." προσωπολήμπτης means showing favoritism (unjustly) based on external human qualities. Sovereign mercy is not an example of God showing partiality based on external factors (ethnicity, social standing, wealth, etc.). Quite the opposite, in fact. Election is not grounded in anything in the person.

Freth said:

2. The scope of the plan of salvation is global.

Let's revisit John 3:16-17 again.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

• Strong's G2889 world (kosmos): the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
• Strong's G3956 whosoever (pas): all men, every man

Salvation is available to all. The world; the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family. Whosoever; all men, every man.

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Is this supposed to be a response? Strong's agrees with what I said on κόσμος. You cherry-picked a select portion of the semantic range of that word, and had no comment to offer regarding John's specific use of it.

"Whosoever" is not simply a translation of πᾶς (pas, "all") by itself. It translates the substantive use of πᾶς with the participle ὁ πιστεύων ("the one believing"), literally "all who believe." The construction inherently qualifies the scope. It refers to those who do believe, not to everyone indiscriminately, nor does it imply that anyone can believe at will. It is a descriptive statement of the saved, not a prescriptive statement about human ability.

Freth said:

3. Free will belief.

Paul explains how belief works.

Romans 10:10-13 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

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No, there is nothing here about the cause that brings a person to faith. Paul is describing the manner in which salvation is expressed. We're not debating manner. We're debating origin.

Freth said:

4. Unbelief.

Satan is the cause of unbelief, not God.

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No one has said or implied that God causes unbelief.

Respectfully, I don't need to give time to the remainder of your comments. The points you raise I have largely already responded to, and they still do not address what is explicitly stated in Acts 13:48. Surely it isn't your point to argue that Scripture contradicts itself? If you think other texts contradict what has been argued concerning Acts 13:48, then you still need to address Acts 13:48 explicitly and show how its grammar is consistent with those other texts.

Delvianna said:

then that resides under quarreling.

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Of course. Christianity has become a team sport

Jermayn said:

Looking to get a little more insight from multiple people from multiple backgrounds on this. Thank you in advance to anyone who responds.

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I'm not sure if I can help, but I'll answer

-When you first became a Christian, what did you expect life in the church to be like?

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Everyone helps everyone, everyone is kind, caring and trustworthy.

-What were your hopes or assumptions about how things would go?

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Warm/ Fuzzy/ Bunny land. I figured that nothing would be hard, and life would be fairly simple.

-What was your first experience with the church community?

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I grew up in a non-denominational church so my first experience, I would say I was too young to form an opinion. If issues came up, I just assumed that's how things went. I also didn't look to much into anything and didn't question anything either.

-Did those expectations match reality, or were there surprises?

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Polar opposite. I found most people to be hypocritical, self-righteous, egotistical, arrogant and cold-hearted. I also found that life is harder when you follow Christ lol but it's well worth it.

-How do you feel now about your place in the church?

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I left the "church" in the scheme of a physical building where people congregate. I've tried several others but I haven't found a single church where actions back up what is being taught and I'm not the type of person that will let something like hypocrisy slide. We can disagree on theology on smaller issues but if the church is run by hypocrites, I'm out. I am aware though that it's most likely due to where I live. I kind of feel like I live in a city with a perpetual dark atmosphere. I am trying to move out of this state and I'm hoping and praying God is leading me to a better place.

He's not helping. He's supervising.

Daniel Marsh said:

my wife singing off key

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Daniel Martinovich said:

When were you “with me.” You just disputed everything I said. None of which was futurism.
It’s only complicated when people try to make the Bible’s prophecy about the end of the world.

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The simplest interpretation of the Mark of the Beast - the one that says the prophecy means exactly what it says! - is the one also most universally rejected, sadly. Login to view embedded media

BobRyan said:

1. 1 Cor 7:19 'What matters is KEEPING the COMMANDMENTS of God"

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Ask a Jew how many commandments God gave only to Israel, and they will tell us 613. Jesus kept them all.

BobRyan said:

Without the Law... there is no sin Rom 4, and no need for grace or the gospel

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Well, there is scripture we agree. Now, please explain the fact that you are only interested in telling us that we are only responsible for ten of them

Dan1988 said:

Who are you to tell God that He can't torment unbelievers in the lake of fire for all eternity. He said it, you reject it at your own peril.

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Because God is love, and love simply does not act in that manner.

I would never attempt to convince you to believe what God has said, because I know most "professing Christians" don't believe what God has said, because it hurts their feelings, I get it.

Dan1988 said:

You obviously reject, Matt 4:4 "But He answered and said, 'It is written: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.”

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Yeah, except that people like you don't live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. If you don't like what He said, you start looking for "weasel clauses" and other ways to avoid what you don't like. The Eucharist, for example, is a classic case of this. For the first fifteen centuries, it was known that the Eucharist is exactly what Christ said it would be - the very Body and Blood of our Lord which hung on the Cross for our salvation.

The same is true for those who do not like the idea of God really and actually having a love so expansive and great that He forgives and heals ALL sinners, not just those we like. (In other words, we don't like Hitler, so how dare God ultimately save him, but our drunken father who beats us, well, perhaps we hope that God's mercy will override his sins.)

Apple Sky said:

Now who's mocking ?

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Your husband must have had a good influence on you, because while he was alive, despite the disagreements you were a very likeable person.
You seem to have changed for the worse since his passing, as I'm finding very little to like about your current interactions in these threads. I too have lost loved ones, though not my wife, thank God, but I won't presume to try and give advice. Please do consider how the manner in which you are posting has changed and make an effort to get back to how you were. I'd like to be able to call you a friend despite our disagreements but cannot in good faith consider that with your current attitude.
God bless.

Landon Caeli said:

I don't know what kind of good you think you're doing, diminishing Christianity down to the level of Islam.

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I’m not diminishing Christianity; I’m comparing Early Medieval legal codes. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all addressed the harm being done to minor wives at that point in history and offered appropriate remedies. You have to remember it was during a brutal period in history when those codes were written. Child marriage was the norm, and while historical context doesn’t excuse it, it does explain why those codes were written.

The Barbarian said:

Loving animals is a sign of good character. Not an infallible guide, but it's never misled me so far.

BTW polydactyly (extra digits) is a common thing among larger dogs and cats. There is no gene for number of digits; during development the cells that will give rise to digits move across the end of the limb bud. The longer it takes, the more digits appear.

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Thank you.

He's white, with one blue eye and one yellow eye. He simply showed up one day. You could tell he'd been on the streets for a bit, but also that he had been someone's cat at one time. It took him a bit to get readjusted to having a home. But he is doing fine now and likes to help with everything his human his doing... Here he is judging the quality of my bin packing.

Jermayn said:

Looking back on your early life as a Christian, do you feel like you received the support you needed from the church and church leadership? Since you said you left due to limited opportunity, it sounds like that is a no, but I don't want to assume.

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In some ways, they were very good. For example, I can remember being given support with food when I didn't have enough money to pay my rent and eat, as a student.

But in other ways, there were problems. Not just the sexism - although that was a big problem - but really unsafe attitudes around mental illness, for example.

Jermayn said:

As a leader now, do you feel like any expectations you had in your earlier Christian life were unreasonable? Or perhaps the opposite. Do you feel like you should have expected more from God, the Church, other Christians, etc.?

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In recent years, I've found myself saying to my supervisor, that I didn't expect being in the church to be easy, but I expected it to be fair (in the way that I was treated). I have not found that to be the case.

I don't necessarily think it was an unreasonable expectation, but it's clear that it's one the church is not at all equipped to meet, at the moment. And I've had to make my peace with that.

Jermayn said:

Do those early experiences shape the way you minister as a Church leader today, specifically when dealing with new or young Christians?

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I hope so. One of the things that I think people in the church tend to do, is assume that new Christians should think, act, feel, in particular ways. That's often not the case, and I hope that I have learned (and am trying to model to others) that each person's walk with God is their own, and we can't try to force them to fit into our preconceptions. And we need to give them the freedom to make their own choices, without being manipulative or coercive or shaming them for it.

Always in His Presence said:

Citation establishing fact requested

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Google is still free but I like being helpful so...

PloverWing said:

Maybe, or maybe climate change, or maybe bad policies about managing Iran's limited water supply, or some combination of these.

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So I just googled. In this year alone, Iran has received 5.6 inches of rain, Georgia has received 45-50 inches of rain. That's an insane difference. I'm not saying water mismanagement isn't a factor, but geeze... 5.6 vs 45??

This is how the current administration helps Americans with getting good paying jobs. Things like this need to be happening.

RamiC said:

Thank you, sorry I missed this, it is right in the OP. My bad.

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lol NP

RamiC said:

However, if that is the definition, we need an enormous amount of room to differ on various points, because each individual Christian is met by the Lord right where they are at the point of first believing and starting to follow, and that is a lot of different places. I accept the Bible as a unifying element, but the shortest version is 66 books long, and each one of us is reading it from some point in our lives, sometimes before and then after the point of aquiring the faith. We need to allow each other to grow in faith.

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I do agree with this, I just think that we should continue to debate (with the right attitude and motives) instead of essentially using "dividing the body of Christ" as a statement to stop debates so we can unify in theology. Our goal should be unification through Christs truth instead of passively allowing false doctrine to run amok just because someone gets offended when someone claims their belief isn't biblically backed.

There is a wider sense in this with denomination church's at large, but I'm more focusing on the every day person like, our conversations on this forum. I've seen people debate and then someone, somewhere comes out and calls it "dividing the body of Christ" when I think they were doing it correctly and so it just shuts down the conversation like we can't debate at all.

Don't forget that all who lived before Jesus' time will stand before God also. Not all will be rejected.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

IF you don't accept the simplest citing of 1 John 4:7 or Matt. 10:34 or can't look up ALL the others yourself, why bother?

Were it me I'd challenge where I "think" I stand just to make sure

P.S. It's ALL THERE if you looked

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And I do wear glasses BUT. in HEB 9:18 it says ::
# 1. WHERE. UPON //. HOTHEN. is a ADVERB

# 2. NEITHER // OUDE. is also a ADVERB

# 3. THE. // is a DEFINITE ARTICLE. , in the NOMINATIVE CASE in. the SIGNULAR

# 4. FIRST // PROTOS. in the NOMINATIVE CASE. , in the SINGULAR

# 5 ( TESTAMENT }. WAS. DEDICATED // EGKAINIZO in. the PERFECT TENSE. invite INDICATIVE MOOD invite SINGULAR

# 6. WITHOUT. //. CHORIS. is an. ADVERB

# 7. BLOOD //. HAIMA. is a GENITIVE CASE in. the SINGULAR in. the HEUTER

# A And what it means is the OLD COVENANT. was set aside because you needed a Priest and ALTER for

a blood sacrifice for sins

# B. BUT all animal sacrifice does not give life since Christ had not yet. died on. the CROSS

# C. AND SHED HIS BLOOD. on. the CROSS. will give ETERNAL LIFE

# D. The only be be saved is what wrote wrote I. ROM 10:9 and 10. .

# E And salvation is ONLY FOUND in. Pauls 13 letters to the BODY OF CHRIST

# AND the GOSPELS and do NOT TEACH THE BODY. of Christ !!

dan p

Phil G said:

It’s how she gets all her information.

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Now who's mocking ?

Oompa Loompa said:

Well then just take the money and quit complaining and pearl clutching.

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No. Try addressing real issues, not the ones you make up to easily defeat.

Delvianna said:

That sounds like judgement does it not?

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Maybe, or maybe climate change, or maybe bad policies about managing Iran's limited water supply, or some combination of these.

Akita Suggagaki said:

Yes, and even less possible in the Trump. administration.


Nothing from the iron fisted Republicans who only want their way. The used to be the party of “No!” Now they are the party of, “Yes, sir Mr. President. How wonderful you are. Anything for you. Best ever!”

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I guess we should have expected Republicans to reverse the law that they passed in July just because the 42 Dems who couldn't beat the bill in July wanted another chance. (and, yes it was wrong not to send out the SNAP checks).