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Larniavc · Sep 12, 2025

Bradskii said:
I think that the idea is to present evidence to which both parties agree. To get common ground.

I disagree with that.

The Liturgist · Sep 12, 2025

Welcome back @Anthony2019 - it is a sincere delight to see you have returned.

7thKeeper · Sep 12, 2025

Zaha Torte said:
What insult?

And no - he gave no reasons.

He claimed that Australia was superior because they are a "full democracy" - which he has no basis for claiming.

The US is a Constitutional Republic.

And no one has convinced anyone that redistricting is somehow wrong in any way.

Really? Come on, no one is that daft.

Zaha Torte said:
I don't know why we should consider Australia to be a good example for anything let alone this.

"Good example for anything"... Really? You claim you don't see the insult there?

And I can't believe how many times this needs to be said, this HAS to be a talking point circulated around certain segments of the US conservative social circles despite how utterly wrong it is.

A Constitutional Republic IS a form of democracy. The USA is a democracy.

eclipsenow · Sep 12, 2025

Pommer said:
I’m sorry, I don’t know who the spokesperson is for this “WOKE” (organization?).

I thought woke was a bit on the nose here as a term. Kind of like saying all MAGA are tobacco chewing gum toting rednecka sitting in their rocking chairs on their unpainted front verandas yelling "Get off ma lawn!"

But I wouldn't want to generalise!

keras · Sep 12, 2025

Dan Perez said:
So do. you believe that in. the Millennial Kingdom there will be. be ANIMAL SACIFICES ?? And verse says that ??
'dan p

What I believe, is what the Bible tells us:
The Prophesies in Zechariah 14:16-21, Jeremiah 33:14-18, Ezekiel 20:4-41, +, prove that there will again be sacrifices and offerings in the new Temple.

This issue is another example of how people get fixated on a doctrine, without studying ALL the scriptures pertaining to that subject.

Shemjaza · Sep 12, 2025

Zaha Torte said:
If so - what are your thoughts? If not - why not?

(It's where my username comes from).
I read some fantasy novels in the 90s that used the Enoch mythology for a base, and it's an interesting read.

It's like people took Genesis and thought it could use a psychedelic, fantasy road trip. Enoch getting transformed into an angel, Noah having an unhuman appearance. Fallen angel's with diverse knowedges and powers. It's all very interesting.

I wonder if the undying Nephilim spirits from Enoch are inspired by the same mythology that became the Djinn in arabic myth?

A particularly unusual thing is that a literal reading implies that the Earth has a will of its own and grieves the death humans.

sjastro · Sep 12, 2025

stevevw said:
You don't need magic vision. Even you (observed) without going into how the cuts were made that they resembeled modern cuts. When open to these works without predetermined ideas you begin to (observe) these signatures quite easily.

Now they may turn out to be good close replicas. But thats because they look close to the precision. Thats the determinin g factor as opposed to the obviously inferior ones. Even inferior ones sitting next to this completely different signature in museums ie inferior softer ones or painted to look like the harder ones and then say they were made by the same methods and people.

For example here we have a precision vase on the left sitting next to a copy in softer stone that is suppose to be made by the same method. You can see without micron measures theres a destinct difference. It is these special precision vases that speak of a seperate and different signature.

View attachment 369871

For me its like putting a precision NASA part among parts from say 1900 and saying they were made by the same tech or people. You will look at the precision part and know there is a destinct signature overall eminating from it intuitively that is different from primitive methods.

Are you totally bereft of any basic comprehension skills?
Here again are the images in question.

You cannot tell from these enlarged images whether the vases are constructed to micron level accuracy let alone millimetre accuracy.
Instead you waffle on about irrelevant nonsense.

stevevw said:
First of all your creating a fallacy, a strawman that these are just 'Youtubers'. These are qualified metrologists, analysts using scientific equipment producing scientific results and repeatedly so therefore being good science.

Stop making up rubbish.
If these individuals are qualified metrologists then why did they use Blender and OpenSCAD which are downloadable software from the internet instead of the tools of trade such as GOM Inspect, PolyWorks, or Geomagic Control.
It is bad science to use inferior downloadable software for the micron level analysis for the reasons given which you fail to comprehend and ignore.

stevevw said:
Metrology does not use light scanning and yet produces similar precision results down to 1,000th of an inch. The geometry and maths incorporated from this does not depend on light scanning and shows signatures of modern tech and knowledge to acheieve.

The measurements and the geometry and maths found are simple based on verticle and horizontal central axis. From this they can determine the precision to most points. As for the cyclinders and curves they were determined or rather found consistent with known geometry like the Golden ratio and Pi or the Flower of Life ratio. This was not random shapes to be determined by the subjective eye. They were inherent geometry found in nature.

Then the problem is how do you transfer that into a 3D object near perfect. Not any object but the hardest of stone. Thats a completely different matter and one that points to the advanced tech and knowledge.

This is incomprehensible nonsense, the two links you supplied are about scanning vases for dimensional analysis.
Furthermore go learn the difference between accuracy and precision.
The issue is around accuracy not precision and I cannot make it any clearer the internet programs of Blender and OpenScad are not up to the job for measuring accuracy at a micron level.
Only professional software which does not rely on visual alignments between scanned data with a theoretically perfect model will work at this level.

stevevw said:
But what you are doing here in offering your personal opinion and claiming authority is a fallacy. It offers no backup and seems subjective as to what you think and not the actual science behind the geometry and how it aligns so well to what seems like a preset shape that is designed in the method somehow and not just any artistic freehand shape.

Or any other shape that may be different to the common preset geometry and alignments we see in these vases.

Given your total lack of comprehension of the subject matter including going into denial mode you are in no position to judge whether I am offering personal opinion or a more informed comment based on evidence.

Frankly I find your comment about having more discussions on topics like this dishonest.
You are not interested in having discussions, this is all about preaching which puts this thread in the wrong forum.

Jerry N. · Sep 12, 2025

boughtwithaprice said:
The error that you make is that Protestant thought is the arbiter of God. Scripture is a testimony of God, and is not God Himself. If you limit God strictly to scriptures, you commit the error of the Pharisees in John 5.

39- Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and the same are they that give testimony of me 40 And you will not come to me that you may have life.
41 I receive glory not from men. 42 But I know you, that you have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in the name of my Father, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive glory one from another: and the glory which is from God alone, you do not seek?

Christ Himself does not limit God to the scriptures. Christ is a person, not a book. Scripture is a testimony, not a person.
Scripture itself in Paul’s letter to Timothy does not say that scripture is all there is. It says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
Christ laments Jerusalem, He does not say oh Jerusalem, you who did not read the book. No!
He cries Jerusalem, you who slew the prophets
God sends people not books.
If we limit God to a book, we lose everything else God has given us. Scriptures says he gave some Apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers. These are people , not books. If we ignore the people sent to us, how can we claim to believe the book written about them?
Even the Bereans, so often used in support of scripture only, merely used the scriptures to validate Paul as an Apostle, they did not use scripture to discard Paul and go off on their own
Scriptures testify of Jesus and His Church. There is no justification to use them to discard the people that God has sent to us

Although I don’t agree with everything SabbathBlessings writes, His post above (#572) is a better response than I would have written.

keras · Sep 12, 2025

Dan Perez said:
Then explain 1. Thess 4:13-17. and did the Holy Spirit not pass typing school. ??

dan p

....the Lord Himself will descend from heaven.....
Obviously this Prophecy refers to the glorious Return, accompanied by Gods Trumpet blast.

It is crazy, or delusional, to think we Christians will go to heaven, when Jesus has departed from there.

Richard T · Sep 12, 2025

wing2000 said:
Millions of dollars’ worth of birth control pills and other contraceptives destined for people in low-income countries have been destroyed at the direction of the Trump administration, the United States Agency for International Development said on Thursday.

The pills, intrauterine devices and hormonal implants, valued at about $9.7 million, had been purchased by the agency before it was largely dismantled earlier this year. They had been stuck in a warehouse in Belgium for months, since the State Department said that contraception was not “lifesaving” and that the United States would no longer fund the purchase of birth control products for low-income nations.

Other countries and the Gates Foundation has offered to accept or pay for the contraceptives. The Trump Administration refused.

“President Trump is committed to protecting the lives of unborn children all around the world,” the statement said. “The administration will no longer supply abortifacient birth control under the guise of foreign aid.”

U.S.A.I.D. is prohibited by law from procuring abortifacients. None of the products held in the warehouse in Belgium were abortifacients, according to inventory lists obtained by The Times. The listed products, such as hormonal implants, stop pregnancy by preventing ovulation or fertilization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/health/usaid-contraceptives-destroyed-trump.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20250912&instance_id=162386&nl=from-the-times&regi_id=6046459&segment_id=205755&user_id=24ee0a2f48a00f7845fccfed4e0edadb

That is poor stewardship of taxpayers money. I admit they should not have been bought in the first place, but the US government placed it's own beliefs above their need to recoup the monies. I guess the US government only represesents those that are against all forms of birth control. If that is the case, then perhaps they will be outlawing all birth control in the USA.

Jerry N. · Sep 12, 2025

jas3 said:
I'm not well qualified to answer either of your other questions and I worry that if I gave my own unqualified answers, it would give you the wrong impression, so I'll leave those for someone more mature in the orthodox faith to respond to.

I will say though that the line between heterodoxy and heresy is probably not well defined, and one shouldn't be comfortable existing in either state.

Thanks, it has been an interesting discussion.

David Lamb · Sep 12, 2025

FutureAndAHope said:
God does not pick and choose a little group of "sheep". He wants "all" to come to the truth.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)

Eze 33:11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'

God loves the whole world, everyone He has made. We need to see people through God's eyes, as loved, valued. Every person marked out for salvation, although not all will follow.

Who said anything about a little group? Revelation talks of the redeemed as a multitude which no man can number. It is strange how those who don't believe in God's election often seem to give the false idea that those of us who do believe it also believe that only a few will be saved.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Sep 12, 2025

Oh, that's so cool.

David Lamb · Sep 12, 2025

Delvianna said:
My message was to the original poster, not to you.

In Dan's defence, I feel I should point out that there was nothing in your message to indicate whom you were addressing.

Pommer · Sep 12, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
Would WOKE condemn Illinois gerrymandering and California gerrymandering and the gerrymandering that goes on in woke controlled states? Should I hold my breath? I don't think so.

I’m sorry, I don’t know who the spokesperson is for this “WOKE” (organization?).

Strong in Him · Sep 12, 2025

Clare73 said:
Surely you don't think the apostles, including Judas, drove out demons by their own power.

No, of course they didn't - I have already said this.

Which would mean that Jesus deliberately gave a devil authority to drive out demons - having already said that it is impossible for Satan to drive out Satan.

rjs330 · Sep 12, 2025

Tropical Wilds said:
I didn’t say anybody said it. I said it.

You sure did. You also said what you heard. Did you get your hearing checked yet?

Tropical Wilds said:
I don’t know, I feel like people uniting to decry crazy people shooting people is kind of a bipartisan stance. Or it was, at some point.

Well we certainly are decaying this. But as we've seen, then left isnt interested in that. I would hope you guys would actually take some steps to stop it yourself instead of blame the victim for it. Meh, if wishes were horses.

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