Latest activity

Free2bHeretical4Him! · 2025-12-05T19:37:51-0600

Hentenza said:
Abraham was saved by his faith. Why would he need for the gospel to be preached to him? I disagree with your interpretation.

But isn’t that exactly what, according to the Scriptures, the Apostle Paul told those foolish Galatians? Thoughts?

”Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Bradskii · 2025-12-05T19:35:52-0600

Always in His Presence said:
The order was to intercept and destroy a terrorist boat carrying drugs. First shot did not destroy the boat - the second shot did.

In May of '42 the Japanese aircraft carrier Hiryu was eventually sunk at Midway. 39 sailors managed to escape on a lifeboat after most of the crew had been rescued by other Japanese ships. A US plane spotted their boat 14 days later.

These men were at war with the US. They were enemy combatants. They had been actively involved in killing very many US servicemen. You're the man in charge of what happens next. You've sunk their ship but these 39 have survived.

Do you gun them down and finish the job?

comana · 2025-12-05T19:33:51-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
Their tribal incestuous culture does not help America. Try again.

Why try? at this point it’s clear you will twist anything positive about Somali immigrants into a negative so you can be right.

Dreyma · 2025-12-05T19:33:47-0600

Tom D said:
This is a great thread.
It's good to read books that offer knowledge or new insights or healing.

Contrary to what people think, stories are a great tool for spreading knowledge or insights or healing, much better than articles or essays.
Stories are more powerful than articles and essays, much more.
Didn't you hear pastors and priests often started each sermon with a story?
And 'The Da Vinci code' led some Christians to abandon their faith and changed people's perceptions of organised religion -- although it's only a FICTION. Yes, only a story.

I completely agree.

Funnily enough, a guy at work just yesterday told me, "I don't read fiction. I don't want to get what's story mixed up with what's reality." I think he's missing out! Stories always mirror reality in some way, either the world we live in or the nature of the human heart.

Hentenza · 2025-12-05T19:28:07-0600

Fervent said:
The concept associated with the word absolutely matters, because Clement is not Scripture...so in resorting to him for the concept you are going beyond Scripture and violating your commitment to sola scriptura. So whether or not the word used by Paul is in fact associated with the concept is of great import.

No, you've submitted 2 authors who speak to a sense of inspiration through quote mining, rather than dealing with the broader thrust of the ECFs who at no point held Scripture to be exhaustive, and in fact recognized that it was the association of Scripture with tradition that authenticates them. They are not two separate, competing authorities but an authority embedded within an authority. You are operating from a late middle ages tradition whose origin is traceable to Jan Hus and made popular by Luther and Calvin. Isolating Scripture from tradition is nothing but confusion, like separating the heart from the body.

No. I submitted a couple of ECF quotes to support that the ECFs believed in the sui generis of scripture which was your first argument. We need to resolve this argument before moving to the next. So post your argument.

timothyu · 2025-12-05T19:26:48-0600

Will it be freedom as we know it?

Dan Perez · 2025-12-05T19:23:27-0600

Guojing said:
Interesting how you lump words together to assume they are referring to the exact same thing.

So, in your point of view, all the OT saints are in heaven now, alright.

Hi DAVE and there are three mentions pf PARADISE

# 1 ABRHAM BOSOM

# 2 The the thief on. the cross where CHRIST said today thou shall be with me in. Paridise to n. ABRAHAM BOSOM

# 3. AND IN. 2 Cor 12:5 which has noting to do with ABRAHAMS BOSOM

# 4 And in ISA 5:14 HELL has enlarged it self

# 5 AND HELL HAS MANY COMPARTMENTS CALLED

# A. HELL

# B HADES

# C. SHEOL

# D GEHENNA

# E. ABYSS

# F. OUTER DAKENESS

# G BOTTEMLESS PIT

# H. LAKE OF FIRE

# I. TARTANUS

BUT 2 COR 12:5 has nothing to do with with the above as it speaks to the BODY OF CHRIST !!

dan p

Tom D · 2025-12-05T19:17:46-0600

I learned today that a great drink for fighting cold and flu during winter is ginger tea.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-05T19:14:09-0600

wing2000 said:
Yes, it was a typo.

I am not familiar with Somali culture so I googled:

"Family is extremely important in the Somali community. The focus of Somali culture is on the family; family is more important than the individual in all aspects of life. Somalis will live with their parents until they get married. In times of sickness or marriage, all resources are pooled and it is understood that whatever you have is not only yours."

Somali - EthnoMed

This is a small example.

ethnomed.org

IMO, we need cultures that emphasize strong families. Don't you?

Their tribal incestuous culture does not help America. Try again.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-05T19:10:35-0600

iluvatar5150 said:
Fleeing a war-torn region, moving halfway across the world, and setting up a community in a new area sounds a lot of “overcoming trials and hardship” to me.

And sponge off the welfare system for decades while bringing their "war-torn" pirate community and producing more generations of welfare sucking leaches. Now, tell me how Somalian heritage has benefitted the United States? Because you just provided nothing but that they are just another mouth to feed.

In other words, they are "fleeing their war-torn country" to relocate their "war-torn countey" to America where they can reap the benifits of a welfare state and send it back to said "war-torn country" so their families can come and bring more of their "war-torn country" back to America while they replicate said "war-torn country." This cycle continues. So please try again.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-12-05T19:09:06-0600

samaus123456789 said:
The church in Ephesus can be founded shortly after people from Ephesus on Pentecost go back to their home country, and start a church in 33 AD. Revelation internally it is written pre 70 AD so I reject any idea it was written after that.

I know you are talking to me, but you're not quoting me to make that clear. Why is that?

It seems that you just believe what you want to believe regardless of what the evidence shows. The evidence indicates that the church in Ephesus was established around 51 AD, not shortly after people from Ephesus returned home from Pentecost. Scholars estimate that when Paul visited Ephesus, as recorded in Acts 19, it was around 50 AD. They had no established church before that.

samaus123456789 said:
The type of persecution (synagogue only in Rev 2:9, 3:9, no Roman except for Pergamon where the Roman politicians can kill anyone they want, exiling Christians which aligns with Claudius) aligns with early persecution not Nero, and not Domitian.

From what I read about how things were in the 1st century in the Roman province of Asia, the persecution that occurred there was specifically linked to the issues described in Revelation (emperor worship, economic pressure, martyrdom) and that is largely attributed to the period around Domitian's rule.

samaus123456789 said:
No he did not want to say " I know the person that wrote Revelation" as that would be boasting kind of like someone today saying "I know the person that started bitcoin" or some other big brag that hardly anyone would know the answer to. There is no internal problem with me believing Paul is referencing John that wrote Rev 41 AD.

Read all of 2 Corinthians 12 and you could see he spoke a lot about himself not wanting to boast. Why would he talk about himself like that if he was not talking about himself in verses 2 to 4? He didn't want to explicitly say that he was talking about himself because he didn't want to come across as boasting. He indicated in verse 5 that if he was talking about someone else, he would boast about that person. But, the fact that he talked about his own desire not to boast was him clearly implying that he was talking about himself without wanting to say it explicitly.

samaus123456789 said:
" 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast" He is boasting about someone else.

You're ignoring everything else that is said in the passage where he clearly is referring to himself. Why would he talk about himself not wanting to boast so much in the passage if he wasn't talking about himself? What he was saying in verse 5 is that if it was someone else he would boast about that person, but he would not boast about himself. That's why he did not want to reveal that he was talking about himself in verses 2 to 4. He didn't want to come across as boasting. But, he strongly hinted that he was talking about himself throughout the passage, as I showed. You didn't address anything I said about the context of the passage in 2 Corinthians 12.

RileyG · 2025-12-05T19:05:04-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
It was Southern Baptist. (although, that was transition that happened a few years before they started going there...that particular Church was once a "Free Will Baptist" church, which...I apologize if this causes any offense, is a counter-intuitive name if you're familiar with that denomination, and a lot of the "old guard" was still there).

It was one of those places where people had to be on the lookout, outside of church. Because being spotted in public breaking one of the rules could get you booted. (for instance, another member sees you out in public with a beer in your hand, or overhears you saying a "cuss word" at a grocery store, etc... they tell the pastor, and boom, you're gone)

Like I said, eventually they did end up in just a more normal Baptist church, but that wasn't until I was around 16-17 and they had already given me the option to not go.

Which part of that may have been just to avoid headaches...according to them, I had something of a reputation for "asking the wrong kinds of questions" in Children's Sunday School back when I was a wee lad. Evidently asking things that delved into predeterminism, or things like "if it's all sin, why are there tougher rules about certain ones?" in front of other 11-13 year olds was frowned upon.

Ah, thanks for the info! I’m aware of the free will Baptists and other Baptist denominations. I’m aware of some differences between them.

ThatRobGuy said:
Actually, many Pentecostal churches (especially in the rural areas) don't allow dancing (even at weddings), and the only form of dancing allowed is the movements made when "consumed by the holy spirit" (similar to their speaking in tongues thing they do)

But the apologetics discussions on here are somewhat frowned upon, so I'll just leave it at that lol.

That’s very true, but Pentecostalism has multiple denominations as well. I think it depends how strict the adherent is.

Thanks for the info!

Peace

Fervent · 2025-12-05T18:59:13-0600

Hentenza said:
No. Is not the word that matters but the concept.

The concept associated with the word absolutely matters, because Clement is not Scripture...so in resorting to him for the concept you are going beyond Scripture and violating your commitment to sola scriptura. So whether or not the word used by Paul is in fact associated with the concept is of great import.

Hentenza said:
The scriptures are indeed unique, sui generis. The scriptures are in fact God breathed, pneumotheos, and the scriptures are divinely inspired, theopneustos. I have submitted ECF evidence for every one of these. Now is your turn to either agree or debunk.

No, you've submitted 2 authors who speak to a sense of inspiration through quote mining, rather than dealing with the broader thrust of the ECFs who at no point held Scripture to be exhaustive, and in fact recognized that it was the association of Scripture with tradition that authenticates them. They are not two separate, competing authorities but an authority embedded within an authority. You are operating from a late middle ages tradition whose origin is traceable to Jan Hus and made popular by Luther and Calvin. Isolating Scripture from tradition is nothing but confusion, like separating the heart from the body.

stevevw · 2025-12-05T18:58:42-0600

Hans Blaster said:
Steve, they AREN'T credible.

Who is they. Are you now tarring the entire Trump admin, the good military officers. No the hypocrites and legacy media are not the credible ones.

Its been shown time and time again how they have made claims only to be shown wrong. Its the ones attacking Trump who are not credible.

Its been shown beyond doubt how they twist and change stories to make Trump look bad. How they hunted him down like no other person in the history of politics. Give me a break.

Its all coming out, how the Left were asbused power and used lawfare.

Hans Blaster said:
Trump never was, but at least in Trump I there were actual credible people around him (or even semi-credible people like Mike Pence). This is just no longer the case.

This is biased.

Hans Blaster said:
There is no one credible at the top of HHS, or DOJ. Federal judges question the credibility and the presumption of regularity in DOJ filings (the presumption that they are telling the truth). Hegseth isn't credible, neither is Gabbard; Sec. Treas. Bessant shows how not credible he is on an ongoing basis. (Not to mention economic clowns like Lutnik and Kevin Hasselt.) The spokes people lie through their teeth with nearly every sentence.

mega snip

I don't know if I am going to respond to another one of you wars on reality. I tried to demonstrate your wrongness, but you just double down with bad analogies, rejections of facts, and other sycophantic behavior. I think I have said enough for now.

This is all bias. They have just shown that the strikes on the narcos was legal and now this shows all the ones getting in a frenzy over Trump and the good people around him are the actual ones we cannot trust. Once again like the other times they made out Trumnp was a Nazi. They are wrong and are hypocrites.

jacks · 2025-12-05T18:50:42-0600

Just a note: Not all scientists believe life formed on its own.

For those that do, what alternative do they have? If you rule out any sort of creative force all you are left with is chance. I don't believe there is any "undeniable proof or facts" to give them, just as they don't have proof that life formed on it's own. So what we are left with is a choice of what to believe. We are all free to make that choice.

LoricaLady · 2025-12-05T18:49:54-0600

What does persecution look like in Tajikistan?
Tajikistan is a former Soviet state. Despite now officially having freedom of religion, the reality is different.

The state still imposes restrictions on religious gatherings and activities—mainly to contain Islamist extremism. But the rules and surveillance affect Christians too, and the state is becoming increasingly wary of and hostile toward them.

There are many elements to the Christian life that are illegal without a permit, from holding a religious meeting to printing religious literature.

Anyone under age 18 is not allowed to attend church services, and Christians are not allowed to share their faith. In recent years, church meetings have increasingly been raided by the authorities, with church members being interrogated for hours at a time and pressured to inform on others.

They can be detained, fined or imprisoned. As a result, the risk of persecution has driven many Christians underground.

There are strict laws about religious education, so training church leaders is a problem. Much of the country is Muslim, and believers who come from this background face rejection, humiliation and possible violence from their families and communities.

Who is most vulnerable to persecution?

Rights violations targeting all Christian communities and carried out by government officials can occur all over the country. Pressure from family, friends and community on converts is stronger outside the urban areas.

Meet 'Khasan'
For two weeks, we were summoned every day to the state intelligence service. They threatened, frightened and insulted us. But I thank God because we were able to testify about our faith in Jesus Christ ... Let’s pray for those people who oppressed us so that they would know the truth.
KHASAM, CENTRAL ASIA

What has changed this year?
Tajikistan jumped seven positions on this year's World Watch List. Pressure increased across all areas for believers, and violence went up as well. Christians face challenges and pressure from their communities and families, and the government imposes many restrictions on church activities.

What does Open Doors do to help Christians in Tajikistan?
Open Doors strengthens the church in Central Asia* by providing relief aid, Bibles, ministry training, prayer support, vocational training and business microloans, as well as projects such as rehab centres.

* For security reasons, the name of Open Doors cannot be associated with certain activities in this country. When communicating about projects in this country do not use the country name, instead use the region name: Central Asia.
How can you pray for Tajikistan?

Christians who meet in house churches can face monitoring from authorities and government raids. Pray that these believers can worship together without fear.
Pray for a change in heart for government officials, so that they will stop infringing on religious freedom.
Ask God to protect evangelists and other Christian workers who bring God’s Word and other Christian resources to His people in Tajikistan.

wing2000 · 2025-12-05T18:46:41-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
"Heritabe?" I assume you meant "heritage." Intesting because another poster was quick to point out my typo to somehow make an ad hominem attack on my credibility. But, I digress. What value did my heritage and culture bring to the United States? It was a culture of being American by supporting traditional American values like patriotism and self-sacrifice. That rugged individualism that overcame hardships and trials to make the country stronger. Now, what does Somalian heritage and culture bring to the table that benefits the United States? For the record, this is now the fourth time I asked the question and received only non-answers and deflections.

Yes, it was a typo.

I am not familiar with Somali culture so I googled:

"Family is extremely important in the Somali community. The focus of Somali culture is on the family; family is more important than the individual in all aspects of life. Somalis will live with their parents until they get married. In times of sickness or marriage, all resources are pooled and it is understood that whatever you have is not only yours."

Somali - EthnoMed

This is a small example.

ethnomed.org

IMO, we need cultures that emphasize strong families. Don't you?

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-05T18:44:44-0600

It only had one fulfillment and ended 70-73 AD. The masoretic is probably the least closest to the original compared to the LXX too.

Hentenza · 2025-12-05T18:43:19-0600

Fervent said:
Clement's quote doesn't contain the word, so what do you mean "meets the definition"? What's required is examination of uses of the word itself from contemporaries of Paul to see how it was originally used, not pretending we already know the definition. No goal posts have been moved, you simply don't seem to understand what it is I am after because you presume to already know the meaning of the word that is in dispute.

No. Is not the word that matters but the concept. The scriptures are indeed unique, sui generis. The scriptures are in fact God breathed, pneumotheos, and the scriptures are divinely inspired, theopneustos. I have submitted ECF evidence for every one of these. Now is your turn to either agree or debunk.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-05T18:35:28-0600

Josephus The Antiquities of the Jews, 18.83

815. There was a man who was a Jew, but had been driven away from his own country by an accusation laid against him for transgressing their laws, and by the fear he was under of punishment for the same; but in all respects a wicked man. He, then living at Rome, professed to instruct men in the wisdom of the laws of Moses.
82He procured also three other men, entirely of the same character with himself, to be his partners. These men persuaded Fulvia, a woman of great dignity, and one that had embraced the Jewish religion, to send purple and gold to the temple at Jerusalem; and when they had gotten them, they employed them for their own uses, and spent the money themselves, on which account it was that they at first required it of her.
83Whereupon Tiberius, who had been informed of the thing by Saturninus, the husband of Fulvia, who desired inquiry might be made about it, ordered all the Jews to be banished out of Rome; 84at which time the consuls listed four thousand men out of them, and sent them to the island Sardinia; but punished a greater number of them, who were unwilling to become soldiers, on account of keeping the laws of their forefathers. Thus were these Jews banished out of the city by the wickedness of four men.

This was 19 AD. So even before Claudius Roman emperors sent people off to distant lands for causing trouble.

The above women sent the valuable items because she thought they would be used to decorate the temple of the God of Abraham but instead the blokes kept the riches themselves or sold them. LOL.

The above event reminds me of this

Mark 7
9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.

So rather than use money or gold to help their parents they were keeping it themselves and telling each other they were devoting it to God which is why they didn't help their parents with it.

Fervent · 2025-12-05T18:34:53-0600

Hentenza said:
Actually it is about who I quoted. Clement’s quote more than meets the definition of theopneustos so yes, the goal posts have been moved. Secondly I have been addressing your posts in good faith while you continue to change from sui generis to pneumotheos to now theopneustos. So yes, you are moving the goal posts and I’m calling you out on it. I’m done. Be blessed.

Clement's quote doesn't contain the word, so what do you mean "meets the definition"? What's required is examination of uses of the word itself from contemporaries of Paul to see how it was originally used, not pretending we already know the definition. No goal posts have been moved, you simply don't seem to understand what it is I am after because you presume to already know the meaning of the word that is in dispute.

As for the switch from pneumotheos to theopneutos, it's because I was going off memory instead of reading the Greek fresh and had reversedd the order of 'God" and "breathed" in the word. As for the sui generis nature, we haven't really touched on that much at all. Or at least I haven't, because I prefer to focus on one thing at a time. Which is the meaning of the word that translates to God-breathed in 2 Tim. 3:16.

GloryToHisName · 2025-12-05T18:33:32-0600

The phrase “the Messiah the Prince” in Daniel 9:25 is intentionally multilevel in meaning. When the seventy weeks are read as divided into two 70 week cycles within the text itself, the Hebrew grammar allows the title to operate simultaneously on Messianic, historical, and dual-cycle levels without contradiction.

---

Daniel 9:25 — Translation

> “Know and understand from the going forth of the word to **build** and **restore** Jerusalem for an anointed one and a ruler, seven sevens; weeks 60, the second; and again it shall be returned and built, with anguish and diligence in its streets in those times.”

---

Hebrew Nuance — נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַ

The phrase נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַ (nagid u-mashiach) permits two grammatical readings:

1) Single figure — Anointed Ruler
A unified King-Priest typology: mashiach (anointed one) + nagid (ruler).

2) Two figures — Anointed One and Ruler
The conjunction וּ (“and”) allows distinction of roles.
Daniel 9:26 confirms this separation:

> “The people of the ruler who is to come…”

Thus the Ruler is distinguishable from the Anointed One in the prophetic flow.

---

Three-Layer Structure

Messianic Layer

Christ fulfills both titles in unity:

Anointed One — Messiah

Ruler — King

The prophecy centers on His appearing within the first cycle and His authority extending beyond it.

---

Dual-Cycle Layer

Daniel 9:24 declares:

> “Seventy weeks are divided out” (נֶחְתַּךְ)

This verb indicates partition, not a single uninterrupted span.

Daniel 9:25 includes the internal marker:

> Weeks 60, the second (שָׁבוּעַ 60 הַשֵּׁנִי)

This identifies the 60th week within the second cycle, not the beginning of it. The second cycle therefore begins earlier and advances toward that marker.

Under this reading:

First 70 week cycle culminates in Christ as the anointed ruler, starting from the *building*.

Second 70 week cycle begins with the **restoration** of Jerusalem under Suleiman as the ruler in (1542). (In the reading the anointed one is Christ and remains in the first 70)

Its 60th week corresponds to the modern return of Jerusalem.

Its final week concludes with the kingdom’s establishment.

---

Historical (Persian) Layer

The prophecy also functions inside Persian history:

Cyrus = Anointed One (Isaiah 45:1)

Artaxerxes = Ruler (nagid) issuing the command in Ezra-Nehemiah

Hebrew confirmation:

> מִן־מֹצָא דָבָר — “from the going forth of the word”

This phrase denotes divine authorization rather than a merely civil edict.

---

Timeline (Integrated)

First Cycle — Ancient Fulfillment

457 BC — Word goes forth (Artaxerxes)
7 weeks (49 yrs) → Jerusalem rebuilt under Nehemiah
62 weeks (434 yrs) → Messiah revealed
Final week: AD 26–33
Mid-week: Christ crucified
AD 70 — City and Temple destroyed

---

Second Cycle — Restoration Pattern

1542 — Suleiman rebuilds Jerusalem walls
60th week reached — Jerusalem regained
Final week: 2025–2032
Mid-week (3½ yrs): covenant broken, persecution intensifies
Kingdom consummated at the decreed end.

---

Structural Markers

Hebrew PhraseMeaning

נֶחְתַּךְDivided / apportioned
שָׁבוּעַ 60 הַשֵּׁנִי60th week of second cycle
וְחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַMidpoint of final week
נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַUnified or dual subject
מִן־מֹצָא דָבָרDivine decree

---

Summary

LayerAnointed OneRulerFulfillment

MessianicChristChristEternal
Dual-CycleChristSuleimanRestoration
PersianCyrusArtaxerxesFoundation

---

Conclusion

Daniel 9:25 is deliberately multivalent. The Hebrew syntax permits singular or dual identity, the structure divides the weeks into cycles, and history confirms both. The prophecy unfolds in layers: Persian inauguration, Messianic fulfillment, and later restoration — culminating in the decreed end.

jacks · 2025-12-05T18:32:18-0600

You're fine. We all feel distant or detached from God at times. God's presence can be very subtle, so much so we might not even notice it. Try just being still and listen for that small voice. When you don't hear it, don't worry just keep listening.

Then the LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD. Behold, the LORD is about to pass by.”
And a great and mighty wind tore into the mountains and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind.
After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
After the earthquake there was a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire.

And after the fire came a still, small voice.

1 Kings 19 11-12

timothyu · 2025-12-05T18:31:26-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Can you tell me about the next step.

Nope. Its His will and it certainly won't resembled the world of man we have made in our own image. The Kingdom is a counter-culture to the world as we know it.

Latest activity

Latest activity

Filter

Forum statistics

Share this page