The Liturgist said:

Forgive me, I’m doing the best I can. I promise you, there is an answer carefully expressed; the reason why I framed my answer in church history was to provide a historical proof for your argument. But if you want brevity, here is a summary:

1. Theologoumemna do not contradict Scripture, rather like doctrine, they are interpretations of Scripture.
2. The difference between Theologoumemna is that unlike Doctrine, they have not been formally endorsed by enough of the Orthodox church to be regarded as part of our dogmatic theology (the actual process by which something becomes dogma is complex since we don’t have a Pope, and worthy of a thread in its own right, for that is a rabbit hole even I won’t go down).
3. Some Theolougmemna are nonetheless extremely widely held, and as far as I am aware the interpretation I provided on speaking in tongues is the prevalent theologoumemnon on the subject, and is based on the Scripture detailing the reaction of the people to those who had received the Spirit - that these were real languages, and on an understanding of the interpreters St. Paul mentions as being translators, and based on the element of practical utility that seems to accompany the various gifts of the Spirit, all of which seem useful in and of themselves to ensure the safety and success of the Apostles and those who continue their work.
4. This includes Orthodox monastics, because people come to see Orthodox monasteries and ask the elders questions, and interact with them, thus making prominent Orthodox monks such as Elder Ephraim, memory eternal, a kind of missionary.
5. I have encountered from some members of the forum the view that Scripture only has one obvious interpretation, but this is clearly not the case; there are multiple possible interpretations of much of Scripture, which is why doctrine is of such great importance, to the extent that St. Isidore of Seville in the late 6th and early 7th century expressed a view that most traditional Christians would gravitate towards, that is summarized as “Scripture is in the interpretation, not the reading.” And we would cite 2 Peter 1:20 in support of that.

Now, the preceding posts I wrote provide a historical context that I wrote with a view towards explaining the historical context and theological rationale behind each of these five points.

Also everything written by my friend @FenderTL5 is correct. Insofar as you seem to be focusing on eschatological implications of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that or Soteriology (the theology of salvation) are logical areas to study, but this thread also touches on the meaning of the NIcene Creed, church history (insofar as the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement is a recent phenomena whose members believe it to be a revival of the gifts of the spirit documented in Acts and elsewhere), and sacramental theology.

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Freth said:

Scripture confirms that the law of God is eternal. See Isaiah 66:23, Psalms 19:7-14, and Psalms 119:160 for statements of fact.

The Bible shows us that God has an eternal standard for all of His creation. It is found in the war in heaven where Lucifer and a third of the angels fell because of sin, but two thirds did not. It is found in Eden where Adam and Eve lived in harmony with God before falling into sin. It is found in thousands of years of God's efforts to save man, even going so far as to send His only Son to die on the cross. It is found in the everlasting gospel. It is found in the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God. It is found in Isaiah's description of the new heaven and new earth.

If you think about it, if God was going to change His standard, he could have done so at the very beginning, when there was war in heaven. He could have done so when Adam and Eve sinned. He could have done so any time in the thousands of years of sinful man, but He did not, He instead wrote His law in stone with His own hand.

God goes to great lengths in the Bible to call man to obedience unto righteousness. If God were to change His standard, the goal post moves forward or backward, and the whole of salvation and the cross are rendered moot.

The point of salvation is reconciliation with God, according to His standard. Sin is and always will be transgression of the eternal law of God. It has to be an unchanging standard, otherwise it's not a standard at all.

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• any time before the Antichrist commits the ToD act......@Douggg's view
• no rapture.....@Gregory Thompson's view
• before the 7 year tribulation starts, His Church to stay in the clouds for the 7 years......@ d taylor's view
• no rapture to heaven, instead an earthly transportation to meet/be with Jesus at His return.....@ keras's view
• rapture late January 2026/7...........@Marilyn C's view
• Post-trib rapture ("after the tribulation of those days" - Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27)....@Spiritual Jew's view
• no rapture..... @ViaCrucis's view
• a rapture, but not to heaven, instead to a place on the present earth that God will designate as New Jerusalem....@Indentured Servant's view
• Rapture/snatching away at the end of time (the very last day) to the GWT Judgement for all believers and non-believers. Only the martyrs are raised early and reign with Christ for 1000 years (the first resurection).....@1Tonne's view
• Post tribulation Second Coming @JulieB67

Always in His Presence said:

Well known



Notice the emphasis on they were all - Look just a could verses back (remembering the Scripture was not written in chapter and verse.


Notice - the eleven were address, but there were others in the room that made up the 'them all' - Mary, the mother of Jesus, with His brothers and 120 people in total.

Did you catch it?

How many were filled with the Holy Spirit? Them all!

Thoughts

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Valletta said:

Jordan says ICE agents ‘doing the Lord’s work’

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) said on Sunday that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents are “doing the Lord’s work” as the agency faces criticism over its tactics. “I think the ICE agents are doing the Lord’s work. They’re doing what the president promised the American people he was going...

www.yahoo.com

Such a tragic situation created by letting in ten to twenty million people, so many unvetted, in one presidential term. So many resources wasted because ambitious people decided to break the laws of our country. Those resources could have been used to bring in more who love America in legally.

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• a Jew, anointed the King of Israel thought-to-be messiah. @Douggg 's view
• a Gentile. @kinshasa19 's view
• a Jew, the false prophet (in revelation 19:20), a nephilim, the actual seed of Satan, the beast from the land/earth. @d taylor 's view
• a Gentile - from Islam. @Marilyn C's view
• a Jesus teaching the opposite of Jesus' teachings @Gregory Thompson's view
• There are many antichrists, not just one. All who deny Jesus is the Christ denies the Father and the Son and are antichrists (1 John 2:22). @Spiritual Jew's view
• the Antichrist could be a person, but also maybe an institution. @9Rock9's view
• The Antichrist will be the next Mahdi from Islam. @1Tonne's view
• Man of Sin/Antichrist- Satan @JulieB67

bèlla said:

She felt it was too much and decided they’d skip it instead. The comments includes parents and educators recounting similar experiences. That’s why they’re sounding the alarm because they’re behind and the gap is increasing. We see similar trends in adult literacy.

~bella

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Aaron112 said:

It is better to avoid discussion about false gospels, false teachings, heresies and such ---- all those things being of and from the devil and it is dangerous like trying to get a footing in quicksand!

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RileyG said:

That's literally what she said..."do whatever he tells you"

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Jeffrey Bowden said:

Keras, the “faithful peoples” are not even on Earth at the time of Rev 6:15-17.

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Jeffrey Bowden said:

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

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mourningdove~ said:

I haven't heard that one in AGES!

There was something about the '60s'. We seemed back then to have many popular songs with lyrics that didn't quite make sense to many of us! And without the internet to research them, we were kind of left 'to guess' at what we thought the song was about. ("Mellow Yellow" is another song that comes to mind! Lol!)

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chevyontheriver said:

Gehenna is far worse than Sheol. The worm doesn't even die. The fire doesn't go out.

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bèlla said:

This is a thread for oddities. Things that make you go hmm, what or worse. Enjoy!

Millennial Mom Opts Out Of Homework All Year​

She wrote the teacher a letter and informed her they were taking the year off from homework and hoped she’d be okay with it. Who does that??? The mom is in the first portion and the remainder discusses student performance and the numbers are bad and the comments are worse. We’re in trouble.

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keras said:

My contention is that if her husband Joseph had died, Mary and her family could easily have made that journey

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keras said:

They settled at Glastonbury and helped acquire tin, lead and food grains.

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keras said:

What makes this more probable, is when Jesus selected His disciples, they did not seem to be known to each other.

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HARK! said:

I'll have to apologize. I didn't quite remember the timeline correctly; but it seems like you should have still been able to recognize what I was referring to.

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It began on a Thursday, not a Friday.

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HARK! said:

Yes, they were at all time highs in October of 1929; and then they weren't.

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Servus said:

Rebellion + obstruction of justice + dereliction of duty = democrats.

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stevevw said:

Basically there are two main positions on Immigration law. Those who want safety and secuirty of borders but also law and order in society. Then there are the radical Marxist ideologues who want open borders and defund the police as they believe there should be no borders and law and order is oppression.

They oppose government power to enforce laws and want a free for all in the name of a DEI utopia. Pie in the sky stuff. Its often decends into violence because if we look at all the groups who have this ideology they end up using terror to achieve the destruction of the percieved oppressors.

ICE is seen as an arm of the oppressor Trump who is a Nazi and fascists that must be stopped. Just applying the normal law enforcement that any rational society would apply to keep their borders safe is deemed as oppression and therefore this must be met with terror.

Its more or less the same ideology as Islamists. Except rather than a Caliphate and Sharia law or bringing about Allahs rule. The Marxists ideologues want a Socialist utopia of some sort where all outcomes are equal. BUt both percieve the world as there being oppressors and infidels that must be stopped with violence and terror.

They see the world as oppressors and victims so every action against the percieved oppressed which includes terrorist groups and harden criminals and organisations is seen as oppression and must be met with terror.

They have the perfect army in that many are already criminals, gangs, organised crime and terror groups that are utilising the deluded western ideologues who fall for all this ideological thinking. The two have some weird cojoining like we see with groups like Queers for Palestine and Hamas. Its a strange phenomena.

But their common hate for all things western, whites, Jews and Christians unites them.

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RileyG said:

It’s a Bible that is approved by the Catholic Church. I also own it, and about 50+ other bibles.

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