The Greek word
hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from
hekon; voluntariness -- willingly,
which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
It doesn't mean free will, the noun.
A "carnal minded will" is not an adjective, but a noun.
Carnal minded is an adjective describing a type of will, <- will here is a noun. Are you saying the carnal will is a free will?
You aren't talking about the same thing I am talking about.
I understand that you're talking about a philosophical meaning of free will. In the moral/immoral context, I'm talking about the scriptural meaning of a free will -> free from sin -> the positive layer of the neutral philosophical free will you're talking about. In reality the free will you're talking about isn't a will at all; it's the circumstance of choosing between one's own carnal will and God's will.
"pertaining to self, or of his own." is not THEIR OWN WILL qualified as OUR OWN way
Satan... When he lies, he speaks out of his own character. That is... pertaining to self, or of his own.
You did not read own will there, as in a noun.
Hence, you did not understand what you read there.
Will means desire in scripture. Our own will is descriptive of our own way according to our own desire, a noun. I quoted Isaiah 53:6 to express what I mean by our own way and further qualified it as NOT God's Way. It's right here -> All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Our own way is our own will because we willed to go our own way.
I understand that Jesus is talking about Satan's Character. On that we agree. His character is described as lusting, a murderer, and a liar not abiding in truth. Hence those descriptions show his own character/will/desire.
John 8:44
Ye are
of your
father the devil, and the lusts
of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh
of his own: for he is a liar, and the
father of it.
You read own will here... Jesus thus makes clear that the angel that became Satan the Devil, acts according to his own will, or desire.
The acting on one's own will, is free will. The word 'will' as a noun. is not free will.
The acting on one's own will, is free will? Before you said freedom to choose was a free will. That's two distinct meanings.
Freedom to choose -> Here “free will” = the ability to make a decision between alternatives. <- That’s about choice.
Acting on one’s own will -> Here “free will” = following one’s own desire without interference. <- That’s about
desire.
Have you ever heard of the equivocation fallacy? Because the terms will and free keep morphing, and we end up reasoning upon an equivocation. I expect you to next claim the opposite -> NOT acting on one's own will/desire, is free will.
I'm not saying the devil doesn't act according to his own will or desire. I indicated that in post #74--> "This we can agree on --> the children born of the devil have the same character as their father --> evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immorality, thefts, false testimonies, slanders".
The children born of the Spirit of God have the same Character as their Father. --> The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control;
To act according to one's own will or desire refers to the capacity for self-directed, purposeful action, a concept known as volition. Volition involves the ability to make autonomous decisions and act upon them, distinguishing conscious beings from purely deterministic systems. It is considered a key component of free will, as it emphasizes personal agency and freedom of choice.
The term "volition" originates from the Latin velle, meaning "to wish" or "to will". When someone acts "of their own volition," they do so voluntarily, driven by their own desires or intentions.
The idea of acting according to one's own will is also linked to autonomy, particularly moral autonomy, which involves the capacity to give oneself moral laws rather than simply following external commands.
Hence, we are not on the same page.
You haven't understood.
Therefore...
Do you understand this definition above is describing secular Humanism? It excludes God as the Eternal power and the Light of the soul and replaces Him with human autonomy.
Volition as neutral capacity is real; we all have desire and the ability to act. But in the moral/immoral context, scripture shows that desire is never neutral: The Spirit of agape Love, and wisdom, flows from our father. The children of the devil desire according to his character, which is sin. The children of God desire according to His character, which is righteousness. That’s why John says those who abide in Christ do not sin, while those who sin are of the devil. Volition is shaped by nature, not autonomous neutrality.
Volition (neutral layer)
Desire + ability to act.
Example:
“I had the volition to stand up and walk.” <--This is not moral in itself — it’s simply the capacity to act.
Autonomy / Moral Self‑Determination (philosophical)
The claim that humans can give themselves moral law, independent of God.
Example:
“I decide what is right or wrong for myself.” <-- This is philosophy, not biblical theology.
The problem with the above definition is that it starts with volition (neutral desire + action). Then it sneaks in autonomy and moral self‑law, by calling both “free will,” hence it equivocates; sometimes meaning neutral capacity, sometimes meaning moral autonomy.
I'm trying to establish that the negative desire comes from the carnal will, and the positive desire comes from the Spirit of Christ. To reiterate, my point is that the children of God, will/desire according to the Character of their Father, and the children of the devil will/desire according to the character of their father. So, in the moral/immoral context the volition of the children of the devil is inclined to sin while the volition of the children of God is inclined to not sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
A negative desire can be acted upon, or against.
What do you call an "action" or "choose to act" on either... whether acting upon that desire, or acting against that desire?
Is it deliberate "action" or "choose to act"?
I would first call it freedom of action. I can move or not move my fingers. Hence there is a choice/option = act/not act. I would then note that the choice to act is precipitated by a carnal desire, and the choice to not act is precipitated by a higher desire that overcomes the flesh. In the Moral/Immoral context God's Word is the Light and Life of every man.
I have a feeling we are not agreeing on the same thing.
We did not agree that "acting on one's own", is commensurate with having a will... as in has their own way, their own will.
Okay. We're in a moral/immoral context. Would you agree we first have to have a will/desire (noun), in order to be willing (adverb)? If that will/desire is coming from our flesh, would you agree it is a carnal will? According to Isaiah we all went
our own way. I interpret that as serving
our own carnal will. There may be other ways to describe a will that is not going God's Way. But fundamentally I see scripture tying the carnal will to the impetus of pride, rebellion, worldliness, and the prince of the power of the air who works in the children of disobedience. Can you agree with that?
Whereas, you are describing possessing a will, as in having a desire, or want... i.e. "I have a desire/will... I want to eat some chocolate.", acting on one's own accord, or will, involves the freedom to make an independent choice or decision to do one thing or the other.
For example, having a strong desire/will/a wanting for chocolate is not the choice to act on one's own accord to perhaps resist that wanting... doing so intentionally, deliberately, unforced, willingly, voluntarily, of one's own free will...
I am talking in the moral/immoral context. In that context, I don't think I possess a will, but rather a will is going to possess me, hence the language of scripture speaks of servitude to either the carnal will or God. One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control.
Willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will", is not the same as having a will.
We evidently are referring to two different things.
We have to agree what terms mean to communicate; that's for sure. Previously, you were referring to free will as freedom to choose emphasizing the decision being voluntary. Meanwhile I'm referring to the will/desire, emphasizing that desires are not voluntary..
If I'm willing, then I have a will/desire. I didn't volunteer to have desires of the flesh, I'm forced to deal with them, and therefore I didn't choose for them to manifest. When we move to the deciding whether to fulfill carnal desires, it's an opposing desire that overcomes the flesh. God's Spirit would be articulated as the goodness that Loves others as oneself. I don't think Light resists darkness. It casts it out just like the Truth casts out lies.
So, carnal desires arise spontaneously and involuntarily. At first, as a believer I must consciously put them away by abiding in Christ. But as the carnal mind is renewed into the mind of Christ, the putting away of carnal desires becomes less frequent, and the goodness of God begins to arise spontaneously. I'm convinced that this transition — from impulsive flesh to spontaneous Spirit — is the transformation Scripture calls the renewing of the mind.
Why? Adding free to one's own will, emphasizes the voluntary nature of an action, indicating that a person chose to do something without coercion or external pressure, which is different from possession of a personal desire, or intention - having a will, or want... a wanting, or desire to do something.
Okay. But scripture does not present moral/immoral decision-making as “voluntary” in the secular humanist sense of free, neutral choice. It presents it as either the spontaneous impulse of the flesh or the transformative work of the Spirit.
Romans 8:13 — “If you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
A desire or want, does not have to be acted upon, because the ability, or capacity to choose not to, is in one's possession. It's called free will.
Before you conveyed "The acting on one's own will, is free will". Now you're conveying not acting on one's own will is free will. You're definitely talking out of an equivocation. The equivocation takes two contrary positions making it the philosophical neutral layer.
If you were talking about not acting on a carnal desire that leads to sin, then you're talking about being free from sin. One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. Like I said free from sin is the only coherent meaning of free will in scripture. But the worldly neutral freewill denies God as the power of goodness in mankind, reducing it to the discretion of the carnal will.
Therefore, I deny the worldly neutral “free will” outright because it is an equivocation, not a will/desire. Scripture shows that desires arise involuntarily, and choices are determined by whether one is in the flesh or in the Spirit. To call this “free will” is to confuse desire with decision and to deny God as the source of goodness in mankind.
Romans 8:7–8 -> The carnal mind “cannot” submit to God’s law.
Romans 6:16 -> We are slaves either to sin or to righteousness. -> No neutral “free” will exists; only fleshly desire or Spirit-led obedience.
Romans 9:8 ->
“It is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.”
Romans 9:16 -> “So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.”
Romans 8:13 ->
“If by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.” → The Spirit is the opposing will that makes resistance possible.
Philippians 2:13 ->
God works in us “to will and to act.” → The will to resist is God’s, not autonomous free will.
Sin does not hinder a person's choice.
"Someone's own will/way/want to steal from you or interfere with you, is that one's desire, which James says, 'a man is tempted, being drawn away and being enticed by the own desire'.
James 1:14
Only 'after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.'
James 1:15
The desire does not have to conceive. Why?
Each person can freely choose not to give into the enticement, or temptation, because they have free will.
It's that free will that allows you to act on your own will, to not get a gun and shoot the person.
If that will, or desire is your want, you don't have to allow it to give birth to sin.
Sin therefore cannot hinder free will. However, your will/want/desire, can breed sin.
Let's see if you get it.
James 1:14 was not the context of scripture I was responding to in your post. I was responding to John 8:44 as the context. In John 8:44, Jesus uses causal and identity markers (“because,” “of his own,” “is”) to show that the devil’s lying is not a matter of free choice but of nature. Since there is no truth in him, when he speaks, he inevitably lies.
His will is bound to his nature, not free to choose otherwise. <- This is why I didn't know what you meant by free will here --> "So,
sin cannot be claimed as a hinderance to free will."
The context of James 1:14, is emphasizing that we are tempted by the lusts of our flesh not God, just like elsewhere scripture is speaking about the carnal will.. He is not saying the capacity to resist a desire to sin and act righteously come from human autonomy. He's saying they come from faith. ->James 1:8-9, My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that
the trying of your faith worketh patience.
God enables both will and action
Philippians 2:13 — “For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good pleasure.”
God provides the way of escape
1 Corinthians 10:13 — “God is faithful… when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
God circumcises the heart
Deuteronomy 30:6 — “The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts… so that you may love him.”
God’s Spirit opposes the flesh
Galatians 5:17 — “The flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit… so that you are not free to do whatever you want.”
www.oxfamamerica.org
