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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

Actually your (C) answer is actually choice (B), which makes sense because we established your belief that God causes sin, and you admit again I choose because I must, cannot avoid it, and God knows what I will choose, which negates (A).
Nope. Your insistence that you choosing what God knows you will choose means that you do not actually choose, is insistence on vapid notions. God knowing (and causing) what you choose is the only way you even CAN choose. I wish you would find anywhere in the Bible that teaches that human choosing is a result of plain chance, or even, that human choosing is pure spontaneity on the part of the chooser. You cannot do it. Nor can you show it logically. All you can do is reiterate your thesis based on circular thinking. You keep trying to prove I am wrong by assertion alone.

Go back to the beginning. God. God is first cause, and, btw, the ONLY first cause. There can be only one first cause, and that is God. EVERYTHING else, therefore, is result. You don't even engage me on this —you only keep asserting that choice by definition means uncaused choice (in various different words) and that therefore my claim is false.

There's a reason you don't engage me on this. You are insisting on self-determination.
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RFK Adjusts Hepatitis B Vaccine Recommendations; Democrats Lose Their Minds

Do you have evidence of child deaths occurring from the COVID vaccine?
Not definitively.
Or just an article that says it "may" have happened?
Yes, "may" have happened.
I can't read the full article, because apparently I've read too many free articles from The Atlantic - but every other source says that no evidence of deaths was presented.
From the article:
No public-health authorities deny that COVID shots can have some ill effects. Adverse reactions are possible with all medical interventions. The mRNA-based vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna, in particular, are known to cause myocarditis—inflammation of the heart—on rare occasions, especially in teenage boys and young men. The form of myocarditis that occurs after vaccination is typically far less severe than the one caused by viruses; for unclear reasons, mRNA-related cases have largely disappeared in recent years. But this condition can be deadly, and considering the hundreds of millions of mRNA doses that have been administered to Americans, even extraordinarily unlikely outcomes may well be inevitable.​
The article concludes:
The possibility—perhaps the likelihood—that a handful of vaccine-related deaths occurred and were downplayed by medical authorities does not undermine the fact that COVID vaccination, on the whole, has prevented death on a massive scale. Nor does it justify sweeping changes to vaccine regulations. Rather, it suggests the need for some targeted reforms, such as improvements to the country’s vaccine-adverse-event reporting system—and also tells us that a strategy of minimizing tragic outcomes, however rare, may not be the best way to protect a vital instrument of public health.​

There is evidence that the mRNA vaccines can cause myocarditis in young men, but at far lower rates than the infection does. There is new research on the mechanism at play and how it might be mitigated or even prevented.

Myocarditis is a rare but real Covid vaccine side effect. A new study sheds light on what might cause it
Results point to two immune signals, and possible methods to keep them from going awry
“I want to emphasize this is very, very rare. This study is purely to understand why. In those rare cases, what’s going on? People talk about it, and here we provide a mechanism,” said Joe Wu, director of Stanford Cardiovascular Institute and the study’s senior author.​
Billions of doses of mRNA vaccine have been administered worldwide against the SARS-CoV-2 virus, including in countries with large, centralized health systems, such as Canada, England, South Korea, and Israel. Data from those countries and the U.S. allowed researchers to spot cases of chest pain, shortness of breath, and palpitations in some recently vaccinated people. These symptoms, which were mostly mild, appear after about 7 out of every million first vaccine doses. The frequency rises to 31 cases out of every million second doses, and 60 out of every million doses among men under 30.


SARS-CoV-2 infection causes myocarditis at much higher rates than immunization, with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reporting 1,500 cases per million Covid-19 patients. Cases caused by infection also tend to be more severe than those induced by immunization.


While researchers initially hypothesized that vaccine-induced myocarditis might be caused by an allergic response to the shots or autoimmunity, more recent research has pointed to inflammatory proteins.[/url]

I don't know of any deaths caused by mRNA induced myocarditis, but I didn't search for it.
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Hunt for Brown University shooting suspect underway

Nobody needs "special help" understanding that you made up a narrative with zero evidence to support it. Why did you do that?

We're allowed to post "hunches" and gut feelings about things here if we want to. It's not a violation of any rule.

Nobody is compelled to agree or disagree. It's just a comment.
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Concerns About the Foundations of the Gentile Christian Movement in Acts 15

The fact Gentiles think they are the only Church is telling in itself. They did their best to weed out the Jews but there is absolutely no reason why said Jews cannot maintain their heritage and religion, while also following Jesus. Universal means all, not one group. That is how it was done in the beginning, and so it shall be in the end. The Church is truth from the Father, not Jew or Gentile.
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Hunt for Brown University shooting suspect underway

Oh. Well, I say it is, as the author. So now that's been clarified.

I also edited it into one sentence, as a courtesy for those who need special help in understanding.
Nobody needs "special help" understanding that you made up a narrative with zero evidence to support it. Why did you do that?
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TMZ is reporting that actor-director Rob Reiner and his wife have been murdered

Now there are reports coming out that Nick Reiner was attempting a "transgender conversion" and was pumped full of synthetic hormones in preparation for a sex change. Whether the hormones had anything to do with driving him over the edge is unknown.
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The Globe

God. When it comes to God there's the physical and the miraculous. The birth and resurrection of Christ is a combination of the physical and the miraculous. So God either stopped the sun, or stopped the earth, or suspended time though miraculous means that defy physics.

God stopped the sun & the moon from circuiting the skies - Amen.
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Trump administration says sign language services ‘intrude’ on Trump’s ability to control his image

Ah yes, that'll go over well.

I can see the articles and conversations now.

"Trump fires ASL interpreter because he felt he was being overshadowed or not the center of attention due to his massive ego" will be how that conversation would likely go.
That's literally the excuse you just made for getting rid of ASL translation altogether.
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TMZ is reporting that actor-director Rob Reiner and his wife have been murdered

Was he unstable or mentally ill? I don't know much about Reiner's personal life.
According to FOX News, Nick Reiner struggled with "homelessness and mental health issues" for years. He said himself he'd been homeless for weeks at a time, in Maine, in New Jersey, and in Texas. Why he would be homeless when his father had money to burn is something I don't know, but there you go.

I liked Reiner's movies, but I disagreed with his political views strenuously. I pray that he and his wife rest in peace and are judged compassionately and mercifully by God our Father.
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Hunt for Brown University shooting suspect underway

I bolded the part that I'm pretty sure got them to call this disinformation. Yeah, that's not opinion.
Oh. Well, I say it is, as the author. So now that's been clarified.

I also edited it into one sentence, as a courtesy for those who need special help in understanding.
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Denaturalization

I think immigrants should be asked, "If war broke out between the United States and your home country, which side would you support?" It the answer isn't immediately "The United States," they should leave.
I am an American citizen by birth and a born-again Christian. If there were ever a war between Israel and the USA, I'm unsure which side I would support. Does this uncertainty mean I should lose my citizenship?
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Hunt for Brown University shooting suspect underway

Wasn't it Brown University that went through a lot of free-Palestine rallies? I want to say, that was one of the worst universities, that even had crazy people camping out, and doing "hunger strikes".

...Maybe the University didn't go far enough in divesting from Jews. So they got whacked by the Islamists.
I bolded the part that I'm pretty sure got them to call this disinformation. Yeah, that's not opinion.
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What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

Hey bling

I wouldn't call it portions. In the NT, we are complete "in Him" and lacking nothing (Colossians 2:9-14). We have everything at our disposal. The filling is not receiving more of the Holy Spirit, but for the Holy Spirit to be more in control of our lives as we yield more and more of ourselves to Him. In the OT, they didn't have the indwelling. But they did have the Holy Spirit "upon" them. That was only for specific tasks. One could make the case that the Holy Spirit upon an OT believer is similar to the filling in the NT. But, unlike the OT, the NT has the indwelling. In a nut shell, in the NT, a believer must be indwelt before they are filled. That indwelling is a deeper internal presence for relationship and transformation. While the filling if still for specific tasks. The OT "upon" was just to perform tasks. This was reserved for Prophets and associates in the OT. And The Apostles just before Pentecost (still OT).
You say: “In the OT, they didn't have the indwelling. But they did have the Holy Spirit "upon" them. That was only for specific tasks.” Contrasting the NT and OT I would say: “portions of the Spirit”, but are you just calling it different in some other way?

Cornelius and household seemed to receive a performance portion of the HS prior to the indwelling portion of the Spirit like those in the OT?

Say a different portion of HS and saying just different type of HS, sounds the same.
The fire in Matthew 3:10-12 is judgment. Everyone is baptized by Jesus. Either with the Holy Spirit unto life, or with fire unto judgment.
What verses are you using to say: Baptism of fire is judgement and not hardships/persecution on Christ and Christians?

Matt. 20: 22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant.

Mark 10: 38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?” 39 “We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with,

Look at both these passages above, Mark uses “Baptism hardship that Christ will go through and the apostles will go through and Jesus is not talking about “judgement”.
The baptism by fire in Matthew 3:10-12 isn't about the purification of believers, rather, it's about the baptism of unbelievers with fire, which is God's judgment.
Look at Mark 10 above.
It's not the Holy Spirit being portioned out, rather, it's the task that is portioned out. The Holy Spirit is omniscient. Think of one fire starting another. It others are started, it doesn't diminish the first. These are the only two passages that I know of that suggest this delegation of power to perform a task. Some believe that the birth of the Church began here in John 20:21, instead of Pentecost, but I disagree. Vs. 23 means the Gospel. They are being commissioned to preach the Gospel.
Addressed above.
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Concerns About the Foundations of the Gentile Christian Movement in Acts 15

Which the Gentile top heavy religion eventually built in man's own image, rejecting the Kingdom itself for allying itself with the Empire. We can't have it both ways.
Yes I think this seems to have been a consequence of spreading to the Gentiles. The small group of Jesus followers who began as a Jewish sect contained within their chosen nation had been unleashed on the world.

This is when the rubber hit the road for Christianity. As you say thats when the church got into bed with power and politics. Gentile rationalising went too far.

But Christs church was still there in the background.

I think there is a similarity in how many of the Jewish sects of Christs time believed in an earthly King and Kingdom that would defeat Rome and usher in a new covenant. With how the church under Gentile rule did more or less the same when they had worked their way up to the ruling class under Constantine.

Both wanted an earthly Kingdom in their own way. While Christ church was quietly going about its business in the background and never being defeated.

I wonder now that the church has been exposed for hypocracy and realises that it fell short that we will see Christs church rise up again. Like with the early church.

The Gentiles once again becoming a pure sacrifice brought to God through Christ. If the Gentiles are to represent Christs church to the world. Then we would have to see this in the pure offerings given in worship. This church or awakening if you like would require that Christians be pure, untarnished and above reproach. No charges could be brought against them.

This sounds a lot but this would be the expectation and difference to standup as representing Christs church. I think this is the fullfillment of the Gentiles. They are falling short but Christ does not allow that His church be not noticed. Especially when the world has fallen so far away from God and the church being full of wolves.
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Ilhan Omar blasted over resurfaced comments on Somali influence in the US as Elon Musk suggests she committed treason

I didn’t say anything about 20 million. If you believe that is the total amount of illegal immigrants in the country I believe that the number is higher than that. I wouldn’t try to guess what the actual number is
Oh okay. I misunderstood when you said you suspected that the actual number [of what? total or recent arrivals?] was "higher rather than lower" without specifically saying higher or lower than what. I just assumed you were referring to the number mentioned rather than some unspoken, unknown. My bad.
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Boston-area pastor refuses to remove anti-ICE Nativity scene, seeks meeting with archbishop

The Eucharist is scared too Riles, and it's been used as a political weapon for decades. Mostly with the people on this board's support.

Actually, upon reflection, the Eucharist is sacred and a Nativity scence is just a diorama.

Reinterpreting it to make a moral point is nowhere near blasphemous.


Which, upon further reflection, (sorry I don't think as fast as I used to) is probably why the Bishop can't really take any action beyond a strongly worded letter.
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Anybody know if Rob Reiner is okay?

A loving, very not inappropriate message from our President about this incident. Truly an example we should all strive for. Try not to cry from the outpouring of emotion.

A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away, together with his wife, Michele, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding, and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, sometimes referred to as TDS. He was known to have driven people CRAZY by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump, with his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump Administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness, and with the Golden Age of America upon us, perhaps like never before. May Rob and Michele rest in peace! Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
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The Globe

I know Kathleen, it's today's scientists that have it all deliberately wrong for greed & gain.

Who else could have built the pyramids ?
Who else could have made the Antikythera ?
Who else could have known how to manipulate the DNA ?
I know you are addressing Kathleen, but it would not be right for me to let your assumptions go unchallenged. Arrogant and uneducated people have been saying that the ancients were so much less talented and knowledgeable than we are today, and you are doing the same thing the other way around. The great pyramids are impressive, and we have been speculating for a long time how they were made, but we are quite capable of making them today. We are just not sure how they did it with the tools they had then. Take any high rise building today and the complexity of the construction is much greater than the pyramids. The workmanship of the Antikythera mechanism and the knowledge and skill needed to make it is wonderful, but the computer you are typing on is a thousand times more complex. People have been altering DNA through selective breading for a few thousand years, but we now have tools to do it other ways on a microscopic level. I agree that foolish people under appreciate the skill and knowledge of the ancient peoples, but you are also under appreciating the knowledge and skill of things done today. We are the same people with roughly the same brains. The ancients were better at some things and we are better at some things, because we live/lived in different cultures and environments. We are explorers and innovators and creative in the image of God. I’m sorry you see lies and deception in almost everything, but the world is full of wonderful people doing amazing things. There have been great achievements in science and medicine, and like always, some greedy people have misused them. However, God is still on the throne and people are still made in His image and often seek to improve life for others.
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Boston-area pastor refuses to remove anti-ICE Nativity scene, seeks meeting with archbishop

ICE has rescued over 62,000 children, many of them were either forced to do labor or forced into sexual slavery. A number of politicians and bureaucrats, many of the Christians, created or supported policies that allowed the children to be put into such situation. There are hundreds of children, as the article explained, who have been taken into government custody when their parents were arrested. This also happens when a single parent or custodial U.S. citizen is arrested and jailed. Not leaving them together with their adult parent in jail or prison is for the safety of the children. ICE agents have saved others beyond those 62,000 plus children as well, adults held against their will, babies left in the water that they have given CPR to. ICE agents have many times given away their own lunches to children who have not eaten for days. Shutting down the inhumane Biden border policies has saved many lives. It has also saved many women from violent attacks, 31% of the women who made the trip to cross our border were sexually attacked. Roughly 90% of those that were allowed into our country to apply for asylum under the Biden administration are found to be not eligible. Those who legally applied for asylum from outside of our country have had to go to the back of the line, we don't know how many were persecuted or died while waiting. ICE is working diligently to save as many people as they can.
Just a little thing here I'd like to point out.

When I put down numbers and percentages, I bring sources.


I don't frankly, believe any of this on spec. ICE lies and there are all kinda places where these lies are spread
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