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SarahsKnight · 2025-12-17T15:34:59-0600

1Tonne said:
The issue annihilationist's have is that their form of punishment is over and done with and is not everlasting. Only the result of the punishment remains.

I don't think it is an issue at all. If you are dead forever (and it is a punishment, the very first consequence or punishment that God ever warned if in the Garden of Eden, in fact), with no chance of ever coming back to life, then the punishment sounds like it is everlasting, no problem. I have always thought that this verse really isn't a good argument for either ECT or conditional immortality, honestly. It can be pretty rationally used for or against either side, really.

The Barbarian · 2025-12-17T15:33:30-0600

Michie said:
What’s funny about it is that people are doing exactly what people were doing to Biden and shamed for it. I guess this is different.

Evidence matters. In Biden's case, he clearly was sharp in 2020 when he completely outclassed Trump in debates, but was not so sharp in 2024. Democrats acted accordingly. When Trump began to show signs of cognitive decline, republicans just doubled down on supporting him. He's clearly having trouble keeping awake, often says things that a bright 6th grader would know are wrong, etc.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-17T15:32:23-0600

Trump's economic approval hits a new low at 36%, poll finds

During President Trump's first term, the economy was a relative strength of his. During the 2024 presidential campaign, his promises to lower prices in a country grappling with post-COVID inflation propelled him back into office.

But toward the end of his first year in office this term, just 36% of Americans approve of his handling of the economy, according to the latest NPR/PBS News/Marist poll. It's his worst mark in the six years that Marist has been asking the question.

Democrats are slightly more trusted to handle the economy than Republicans — 37% to 33%. That's not a wide margin, but it's a sharp turnaround from the 16-point advantage Republicans had on the question in 2022.

In addition to Trump's low approval for his handling of the economy, his overall job approval rating stands at a meager 38%. That's the lowest of his second term and the lowest number he's seen in Marist's surveys since April 2018.

Lukaris · 2025-12-17T15:30:46-0600

Yep, Advent Wreaths are western and totally ok with an Orthodox Church.

https://www.st-philip.net/files/Bulletins%20plus/Advent-Wreath.pdf

SarahsKnight · 2025-12-17T15:27:44-0600

1Tonne said:
You keep implying that I want to instil fear with ECT. Well, yes. I do not mind that. That is good because it will drive someone to the foot of the cross. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

I really don't see how you can have a genuine loving relationship with Someone as Their child when the only or even just one of the reasons you came to Them in the first place was because you'd been taught that they were going to torture you endlessly in a place called hell one day, otherwise. Sorry, this just doesn't make sense.

And it really seems obvious, at least to me, that the word fear in the context of "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" is reverence, not being afraid that He will do literally infinite harm to you. Besides, there is at least one verse (don't remember which book and chapter off the top of my head) that specifically says it is the Lord's lovingkindness that leads one to repentance, which i think is pretty synonymous with salvation, right?

FredVB · 2025-12-17T15:27:18-0600

Yes it went off since soteriology would be important to consider, yet reference to the book of Revelation is bringing up eschatology as that is the concern of that book, and if symbolism that it is full of leaves divisive ideas about eschatological sequences, it is not reliably understood about other subjects with having all that symbolism. In retrospect we will understand these things afterward. Universalism is not well supported biblically, neither is annihilationism. Afterlife is lasting as the same words in the Bible apply to relationship with God with the restoration, so justice that is fair will be for those others also lasting in the same way.

Hentenza · 2025-12-17T15:24:51-0600

BobRyan said:
The fiction that gentiles were given permission to worship false gods, take God's name in vain, covet , commit adultery -- may be some sort of myth in the camp of the antunomians, but the Bible does not affirm it.

Show me where the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles collectively. You keep making the claim but cannot back it up with scripture.

BobRyan said:
By contrast

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind" (oops! no antinomianism there)
Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" (another nail in the antinomian POV coffin)

“So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:28 (NASB2020) - So the Son of Man is Lord, even of | YouVersion

So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”

bible.com

You forgot this verse again. Remember the “so”.

BobRyan said:
The OT did not say of gentiles merely living in Israel , made them fully Jewish as it turns out -- they could not participate in the Passover

Sure they did. The were call zer tzedek and they could participate in the Passover and any other feast.

fhansen · 2025-12-17T15:24:08-0600

RDKirk said:
What plan is that? Is everyone in the world fed, housed, and clothed?

It's a plan that directs proper understanding and action. The following are examples, There are more from various other deniominations, I'm sure:

Social Issues - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

To promote life together and to help maneuver through this earthly kingdom and the myriad social issues with which it confronts the Church, the LCMS has assembled resources on topics ranging from domestic violence to religious liberty.

www.lcms.org

Seven Themes of Catholic Social Teaching

The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society....

www.usccb.org

MarcusGregor · 2025-12-17T15:20:17-0600

Servus said:
How does Trump's stated reason for pardoning the former president of Honduras become my excuse? As for the other two, I'd have to look up Trump's stated reason for pardoning them. Would you like me to do that for you?

Do you agree with Trump's stated reason? I can clearly read what he wrote. I'm interested in what you think though cause we're on this forum and Trump is not. So, what about it? Do you feel like Trump's stated position on fentanyl and his actions regarding known fentanyl drug dealers and criminals are in conflict?

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-17T15:19:42-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Pilot narrowly avoids ‘midair collision’ with US air force plane near Venezuela

Second Near-Collision With Military Jet Near Venezuela

FAA and NTSB reviewing back-to-back near misses involving military aircraft.

A private jet flying off the coast of Venezuela reported that it narrowly avoided a midair collision with a U.S. Air Force refueling tanker on Saturday, marking the second such incident since Friday. The pilots of the Falcon 900EX, over the Caribbean en route from Aruba to Miami, alerted air traffic control in Curaçao of the close encounter around 26,000 feet.

“They were really close,” one of the pilots radioed, according to a CNN report. “We were climbing right into him.” The pilot described the other aircraft as “big,” estimating it to be similar in size to a Boeing 767 or 777.

Lukaris · 2025-12-17T15:19:30-0600

jas3 said:
I've seen an Orthodox Advent wreath for sale with six candles, but I don't actually know of anyone who uses one. I've only heard one person even mention their existence. Out of curiosity, does anyone here have one or know of anyone who does?

I'm aware that the Advent wreath is traditionally a Protestant thing, just wanted to see if it had any notable presence in Orthodoxy.

In our parish, we usually have had one & there would be an inspirational reading from a female parishioner with a candle being lit after liturgy. This year it is not being done but our last priest just retired in August. It could just be a preference per the parish priest. It also might be a logistics matter for us this year. I do janitorial work and the area where we did this is cluttered with decorations.

Studyman · 2025-12-17T15:18:16-0600

Dan Perez said:
Will you reply tp POST # 8. if you can. ??

I did, Noah and Abraham were saved by Grace, God led Abraham's children out of Egypt (Sin) by His Grace. God always looks on the heart of man who would join themselves to Him, based in His Lovingkindness and Mercy.

Dan Perez said:
Is the LAW of Moses still to be KEPT. ??

dan p

First, it's not Moses Law, it's God's Law. This is an important Biblical Truth to keep in our minds, in my view.

Secondly, Noah and Abraham were saved by Grace, not "works of a Law" added 430 years after God said Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.".

God's definition of Holy, Just and Good has always existed, and will always exist in my view. But the Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices for the remission of a man's sins, wasn't "ADDED" until after the golden calf incident, and was always temporary. Only to be in place Till the Prophesied High Priest of God, "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come, at which time the sacrificial "works of the Law" were to cease, and vanish.

The deceiver would have us believe that God's definition of Holy, Just and Good, given to mankind through Moses, grew old and vanished, but the Holy Scriptures doesn't support this popular philosophy in my view. But this deceiver has always taught against obedience to God, therefore I don't listen to it.

God's Laws are still to be kept, at least this is what Jesus and Paul and the Prophets teach, when all their Words are considered, in my understanding.

Hentenza · 2025-12-17T15:17:49-0600

BobRyan said:
fine.

This thread is on Antinomianism.

Are you embracing that POV or do you find a way to reject it?

Do you read Matt 5 much?

You can't keep posting against the Commandments of God without embracing the OP definition of antinomianism

James 2:10 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Matt 5:19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I addressed it in my post but you, again, ignored it. Do you not have the courage to quote and address my whole post?

Btw- your Strawman continues.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-17T15:17:29-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Oklahoma court stops social studies standards with 2020 election misinformation from taking effect
“Christianity, American exceptionalism, and conservative values are under attack and the Oklahoma Supreme Court is leading the assault,” Walters said of the nine-member court, six of whom were appointed by Republican governors.

Oklahoma Supreme Court overturns new social studies standards, reinstates 2019 standards

The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that former Superintendent Ryan Walters and the Oklahoma State Board of Education (OSBE) violated the Open Meeting Act by approving new K-12 social studies standards promoting Christianity to public school students.

The court found that Walters made last-minute changes to standards without notifying the public or providing notice to the other OSBE members, and the standards submitted were substantially different from the version released publicly.

The decision came after 33 Oklahoma parents, children, public school teachers, and faith leaders filed a lawsuit, Rev. Dr. Mitch Randal v. Lindel Fields, in July.

Hentenza · 2025-12-17T15:15:02-0600

BobRyan said:
The first two sentences in your post.

Takes me back to the thread on antinomianism - a heresy from the first century

The opposite of antinomianism is legalism. Both are just as bad.

You don’t have any comments about the article itself? Is it true? What do you consider to not be true and why?

Factotum · 2025-12-17T14:50:48-0600

Factotum said:
Yes, Michigan has laws and is developing programs, like Mobile Crisis Teams (MCTs) and Co-Responder Teams (CRTs), that enable mental health experts to respond to crises, often diverting from or working with police, focusing on de-escalation and health-based solutions, aligning with federal guidance for health-focused responses instead of law enforcement-only ones. Key Michigan laws like MCL 333.20967 give authority to health professionals at emergencies, while specific programs are expanding, supported by state leaders.

Key Michigan Laws & Concepts:
MCL 333.20967 (Emergency Patient Management): Gives licensed health professionals authority to manage patients at an emergency scene, similar to EMS, allowing for health-led intervention.
MCL 330.1712 & 330.1748 (Mental Health Code): Focus on person-centered care, confidentiality, and rights, underpinning how services are delivered, including crisis support.

Emerging Models & Programs:
Mobile Crisis Teams (MCTs): Community-based mental health professionals respond to crises, often without police initially, though police can be called if needed.
Co-Responder Teams (CRTs): Pair law enforcement with clinicians to respond together, blending law enforcement presence with mental health expertise.
988 & MiCAL: Michigan's 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (MiCAL) routes calls to trained crisis counselors, providing immediate support and diverting some calls from 911 dispatch.

Support for Alternatives:
A 2024 University of Michigan survey showed most Michigan law enforcement leaders support alternative response models, indicating a push for these health-based approaches.

Federal Context:
Federal guidance emphasizes that people with behavioral health needs deserve a health response, not just a law enforcement one, pushing states to invest in non-police crisis services.

Factotum · 2025-12-17T14:50:05-0600

Hans Blaster said:
...but if you've got it, show my assumption to be wrong.

I already did that.
It's not my fault if you choose to pretend laws don't exist wherever you dont appreciate those laws. See, look:

Larniavc · 2025-12-17T14:49:36-0600

We must realise that while this is a freak event of untold tragedy for a western democracy in America these events are just another day.

Dan Perez · 2025-12-17T14:46:06-0600

Studyman said:
Again, it is important to sort out the differences between what this world's religions promote, and what is actually taught in the Holy Scriptures, given all the warnings about the preachers of this world.

Gen. 6: 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace "in the eyes of the LORD".

9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was "a just man" and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Both Noah and Abraham sinned, as all men have sinned. And they were both Saved by Grace. To deny this, is to deny the Holy Scriptures themselves.

Will you reply tp POST # 8. if you can. ??

Is the LAW of Moses still to be KEPT. ??

dan p

Factotum · 2025-12-17T14:43:50-0600

Hans Blaster said:
In case you are wondering, I got the bits about your device and browser from the google link you posted. This is why we should all try to practice good net hygiene.

LOL
In case you are wondering... I am not concerned about any of that. And I am unmoved by your interpretation or hallucination re: good net hygiene.

I do care that you realize how whenever you challenge someone about laws, then you risk embarrassing yourself by acting like laws don't exist just because you were elated that one (1) law effort did not pass --although many other similar laws do exist.

Vambram · 2025-12-17T14:38:36-0600

LOL
Jack Smith is a joke.

Larniavc · 2025-12-17T14:34:19-0600

Always in His Presence said:
I'll bet your obvious distain and vitriolic dislike for the President of the United States is so deep - well....

King Charles praises Trump’s role in seeking peace, reaffirms ‘closest defence relationship ever known’ between US and UK

The first day of US President Donald Trump’s second state visit to the UK was packed with pomp and ceremony — from a carriage procession and a Red Arrows flypast to a beautiful state banquet at Windsor Castle.

Trump, the first US president ever invited for a second state visit, called the occasion a “singular privilege” and described it as one of the “highest honours” of his life.

Not a peace deal.

Choose a peace deal.

Latest activity

Latest activity

Trump's economic approval hits a new low at 36%, poll finds​

Pilot narrowly avoids ‘midair collision’ with US air force plane near Venezuela​

Second Near-Collision With Military Jet Near Venezuela​

FAA and NTSB reviewing back-to-back near misses involving military aircraft.​

Oklahoma court stops social studies standards with 2020 election misinformation from taking effect​

I'll bet your obvious distain and vitriolic dislike for the President of the United States is so deep - well....​

King Charles praises Trump’s role in seeking peace, reaffirms ‘closest defence relationship ever known’ between US and UK​

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Trump's economic approval hits a new low at 36%, poll finds

Pilot narrowly avoids ‘midair collision’ with US air force plane near Venezuela

Second Near-Collision With Military Jet Near Venezuela

FAA and NTSB reviewing back-to-back near misses involving military aircraft.

Oklahoma court stops social studies standards with 2020 election misinformation from taking effect

I'll bet your obvious distain and vitriolic dislike for the President of the United States is so deep - well....

King Charles praises Trump’s role in seeking peace, reaffirms ‘closest defence relationship ever known’ between US and UK