stevevw said:

No of course not.

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So killing in the context of self defence is morally acceptable. Yet in post 313 you literally said:

'No, no way killing is never acceptable.'

Am I debating this with two people? In 2 consecutive posts you have first said that killing is never acceptable and then said that killing in self defence is 'of course not' immoral.

Hey, pick a lane then get back to me.

Jesus never said to compete with angels.

He Gives His angels charge over us who belong to Him, to serve us and protect us in the Father's Will and Plan.

Jesus declared, "The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life". Not flesh, not something seen , not fleshly body and blood, not brick and mortar building ..... no, not religious!

Christsfreeservant said:

Do you get what this is teaching us today? Worship of God has nothing to do with a physical location.

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Michie said:

I need a new purse. Send me one. *joking*

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The second to last one I bought was from Amazon and it smells funky. After two or three months the smell is finally disappearing. I should’ve read the reviews….other customers complained about the same thing.

FaithT said:

I don’t know what that all means but I’m glad that at least you have comfortable ways to read.

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Basically I’ve got some really nice iPads with not just access to Amazon’s Kindle books but also several other free, paid and subscription e-book providers. Now that Apple finally makes a decent computer, they’re more comfortable than any laptop.

bbbbbbb said:

Genesis through the Revelation shows all sorts of things, but not consistently. For example, one can easily see God's eternal love in the entire Bible. However, one also sees God's justice, as well. Justice is not love, is it?

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God's Justice Is In Perfect Agape (Love Beyond all imaginations of men).
Perhaps He May Grant you to see Perfect Harmony Consistently In and Through All of His Word, and His Plan.

Jipsah said:

I still sing the song, though.

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The British people were Christians before Augustine came and enforced Roman Catholicism on them.

An Oracle of Tyre:
Isaiah 23:1-7 Wail you ships of Tarshish, for your harbour is destroyed, your port of entry from Kittim is swept away.
Be silent, you people of the coastlands and you merchants of Sidon, whom the seafarers have enriched. They brought food and every other kind of merchandise, you became the marketplace of the nations. Now; be dismayed, you great sea fortress, for you no longer have children to care for.

Other peoples will ask: Is this the great city of ancient times, the one that moved to settle in far off lands? Is this the place where merchants were princes, where traders were the most honoured men on earth and who founded colonies in distant places?

Isaiah 23:8-11 Who planned this about Tyre? The Lord Almighty planned it, to bring low their pride and to humble those of high status. Plough and plant your own fields, you people of Tarshish for your strength is lost, for the Lord has stretched out His hand over the sea, He has shaken kingdoms and destroyed your military power.

Isaiah 23:14-18 Lament you ships of Tyre, for now your strength is laid waste. From that time you will be forgotten for seventy years; the span of one reigning monarch’s life. At the end of the seventy years, the Lord will turn again to you and you will once more become an great trading people. The merchandise and the profits shall be dedicated to the Lord, it will not be stored up, but will be given to those people who dwell in the holy Land, for their food and clothing. Psalms 72:10

Tyre: An ancient seaport on the Lebanon coast. Destroyed by Alexander in 332 BC.

Kittim: The island of Cyprus, used in the Bible as a ‘type’ for the Western nations.

Tarshish: Not the Tarsus of Paul, in Southern Turkey.
: Tarshish was the name of a son of Javan, of Japheth, of Noah.
: Tarshish is also the name of the precious stone of the tribe of Asher.
: Tarshish, Wikipedia - A place, a city or country, far away from Israel by sea, whose people are great traders, thought be some to be Carthage of Tattessos in ancient Spain. [These places were ‘stepping stones’ for them]

Ezekiel 27:12 & 25 Tarshish was the source of your commerce, from its abundant resourcs of tin, iron, silver and lead. Ships of Tarshish brought their cargoes to you. Jeremiah 10:9
Jonah 1:3....Jonah tried to escape the Lord, by going to the most distant place a ship could then take him, which was Tarshish.

So the place referred to in the Bible as Tarshish, is a city or country far distant from Israel, accessible from the sea and was a place of mineral wealth.
The British Isles fits this description and secular records confirm how all those minerals were mined there, then shipped to many parts of the ancient world.

When Alexander the Great conquered ancient Tyre, he built a causeway out to the city. The people who were Israelites, mostly from the tribe of Asher, could see their demise was imminent, so they took to their ships and sailed away to settle in a far off land. Exactly as Isaiah 23:7b says.

In due course of time, they became great again. Their sea fortress; London, became the marketplace for the nations and they have founded colonies in distant places.
Now, be dismayed, for you have lost your military power and your Empire!
World Wars 1 and 2 bled the British Empire dry.

After the Lord has cleared and cleansed the Holy Land, they will support the new nation of Beulah, all the Lord’s faithful Christian people, living in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5

tdidymas said:

And your point? Are you trying to claim I'm teaching antinomianism? (ref. Rom. 3:8).

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It's just the proper understanding of the passage, first of all. I don't know if you're antinomian- I'd certainly hope not. Either way, it means that we're forgiven of sin, and not that we can continue in that sin as if permanently freed from the penalty of all sin present and future. Jesus also gives us the power, the righteousness, by the Spirit, to overcome lawlessness now.

Exponentially the costs have risen.

Blue moon

Ned

Replace your roto-tiller engine quickly!

ROTOT

Hentenza said:

No. I’m making faith to be the beginning and the end to salvation.

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If it's the end then you've misunderstood the role of faith.

Hentenza said:

Which works that we do from salvation because we are newly created as Jesus workmanship. No one is saved by works.

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No on is ever justified by works. Once justifed, they must walk in that justice, producing good fruit, and they can fail to do so, they can fail to rermain in Him, fail to persevere to the end.
"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

Hentenza said:

All Christians produce good fruit.

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If they persistently produce good fruit, they deserve to call themselves Christians. They know. And God, who knows the heart, knows even better yet.

Hentenza said:

Then your faith is not there. We talked about the parable of the soils before,

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You're almost desparately seeking to hang on to a faith alone doctrine, but there's no need. According to James one can have faith without works. And John 12:42-43 gives us an example of a true but worthless faith:

"Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human praise more than praise from God."

And Paul had this to say about it:
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13:2
And;
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."

And Augustine:
"Wihtout love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

So:
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love"

Love, BTW, is what works, by its nature, doing for "the least of these", overcoming sin as it fulfills the law, producing good fruit. Faith, as with hope and love, is a gift of grace, yet one we must accept and act upon. Both a gift, and a choice, a daily one. Faith is our engrafting into the Vine-and that, in and with Him, is where true human justice/righteousness lies.

Hentenza said:

Then your faith is not there. We talked about the parable of the soils before,

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Ok? Go back and read what I said about it then. Good soil is soil that has persevered in its goodness, to the end.

Hentenza said:

So Paul is reaching a different gospel than James. How about Titus? See when you misinterpret scripture it creates tension and when that happens you should re examine your interpretation.

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There is no tension, except that created by novel theologies.. Paul, James, and Titus all knew the gospel, as I do, and all the statements pertaining to eternal life in the bible are easily reconciled within my perspective-and that of the early church. Paul, for example, also knew that we must do, and that we have a choice in this:
"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:12-14

That overcoming of sin, that righteousness, that love, is a fruit of the Spirit, to the degree that we remain in and are led by Him.

SabbathBlessings said:

Thanks for asking. I have addressed this verse/passage more times than I can remember. Here is a post from my Bible study one it.


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.
Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about

1. handwritten
2. ordinances
3. against and contrary to us

This is what Paul is quoting the law he is referring to is from

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The laws that were beside the ark of the Covenant handwritten by Moses, there as a witness against, the context of Col 2:14


But lets look at this verse closer

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The Greek word for sabbath here is plural not singular. So its not speaking of "The" Sabbath day "The holy day of the Lord" as already seen in the context.

Paul is quoting Ezekiel all of the sacrifices and offerings.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and theburnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

What was predicted would end when Jesus came?

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

So this is not about any of the Ten Commandments but about the food and drink offerings, feast days that some were also sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses placed besides the ark of the covenant that came after the fall of man. The Sabbath started at Creation before sin Exo 20:11 so can't be a "shadow" of anything as it is part of God's perfect plan before sin took over and a need for a plan of salvation.

Why if you look at the next verse it clearly shows what it is referring to which works in perfect harmony with the context

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. (contrary and against)
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU DID NOT DESIRE, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME.
Heb 10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.
Heb 10:7 THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME—IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME—TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "
Heb 10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Exo 12:17 43 So the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover:
1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

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Your workaround for the clear message of Col. 2:14 has many words, but is in error. The way I know for certain Paul was including the 10 commandments is in v. 13: "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" - this is the context of :14. So it looks like you want to cut :13 out because it refutes your premise.

Mercy Shown said:

God Worshiper or Law Worshiper?​

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How else do you think that the Israelites knew how to worship God if not through His law?

Mercy Shown said:

Looking back to when I was a young Christian I believe I fell into worshiping the law rather than the law giver. Like the crippled man at the pool of siloam looking to the pool to "save" him, I looked at the law. It was a very stern master finally whipped me into dispair. It is too long of s story to share here but I came to the point of letting go of any kind of God concept and then I met the law giver and relized what He did to procure the gift He was offering me. This is how I have come to undestand where his law fits into His boundless Grace and unconditionsal love.

1. The Law’s True Purpose​

Paul never said the law was bad — he said it had a specific role:


The law reveals God’s holiness and our sinfulness — it drives us to God for mercy. But once faith comes, the believer’s relationship with the law changes:


The law shows what righteousness looks like; Christ provides the power and forgiveness to live it.

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God's way is the way to know, love, worship, glorify, belief in, and testify about God by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits and the purpose of God's law is to teach us how to walk in His way (1 Kings 2:1-3). Sin is what is contrary to God's character traits, which is why sin is the transgression of God's law, so God's law also reveals what sin is by contrast. The purpose of revealing our sin is to lead us to repent and back to waking in God's way. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is on of the weightier matters of the law, so faith did not change the believer's relationship with the law.

Mercy Shown said:

2. Law-Keeping “by the Flesh” — Self-Righteousness​

When Paul speaks of “the flesh,” he means human effort apart from God’s Spirit.


That’s what Paul calls law-keeping by the flesh — obeying rules to earn favor, to prove oneself righteous, or to feel spiritually superior.

This was his own past error:


He had kept the letter of the law, but he didn’t yet know the heart of the Lawgiver. Once he met Christ, he saw that all his efforts without faith were empty.

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In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the flesh with the desires of the Spirit and everything that he listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of God while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character that the Law of God was graciously given in order to teach us how to embody, so "the flesh" does not refer to human effort apart from the Spirit.

If God gave His law as instructions for how to become self-righteous and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it would follow that God therefore wants to be disobeyed, which is absurd, so God's law was not given as instructions for how to establish our own righteousness but as instructions for how to embody His righteousness.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that He and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3). So this does not leave room to interpret Philippians 3 as saying God's law is rubbish and we just need to focus on knowing Christ instead, but rather Paul had been obeying God's law without being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law, and that is what he counted as rubbish.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God but it was not based on knowing him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

Mercy Shown said:

---

3. Law-Keeping “by Faith” — Spirit-Empowered Obedience​

When we come to God by faith, the Spirit enables us to walk in obedience from the inside out.


This is law-keeping by faith: not to earn salvation, but as the fruit of a heart transformed by grace. It’s what Jeremiah and Ezekiel foresaw when they spoke of the law written on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 36:26–27).

The believer’s obedience flows from love, not fear:

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God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God for salvation is by obediently trusting in His instructions, so God's law has always been intended to be obeyed through faith and our of love.

Mercy Shown said:

4. Worshiping God, Not the Law​

Paul’s entire gospel defends worship of the Lawgiver rather than the law itself.

• The law worshiper says, “I will prove my loyalty by keeping every command.”
• The God worshiper says, “Because I love Him, I want to walk in His ways.”

Both might look outwardly obedient — but only one is inwardly free.

Paul put it beautifully:

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"Faith" is synonymous with "loyalty' and obedience to the law is not about proving our loyalty, but rather it is simply the way to be loyal to God.

ViaCrucis said:

Let's be clear. This isn't about believing Trump more than the media or Democrats. It's believing Trump more than experts, institutions, and objective fact-based reality.

It requires listening to the very words he speaks and then creating ad hoc justifications.

"Oh, well he didn't really mean that"
"Oh, it's a joke"
"All politicians say the same thing"

Donald Trump once said he could shoot a man in broad daylight and his followers would still love him.

He was right. There is nothing he could do or say that would cause his most devoted followers to defect. It's almost supernatural the way he acquires loyalty. One might even wonder if it's literally demonic.

-CryptoLutheran

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Trump has his fans brainwashed.

fhansen said:

Col 2:14 is only speaking of a certificate of debt, legal indebtedness that we owe due to our sins. Jesus wipes out that indebtedness, that claim against us.

"...having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross." NIV

"...by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross." ESV

And the reason those in Christ not condemned in Rom 8:1 is because "through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death." This is because the Spirit can actually accomplish in us what the law could only testify to (Rom 3:21) but could not accomplish as it was weakend by the flesh. The Spirit can and will, indeed, fulfill the righteous requirements of the law in you (Rom 8:2-4, Rom 8:12-14).

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And your point? Are you trying to claim I'm teaching antinomianism? (ref. Rom. 3:8).
So then, cancelled legal indebtedness means that we are released from the penalty of breaking the law. "The wages of sin is death" (spiritual, everlasting separation from God). This was put out of the way, having been nailed to the cross, and that is why there is no condemnation for those IN CHRIST. "Death, where is your sting, Grave your victory?" When a person is born again, this is the blessing he gets. What happens after that is laid out in Jesus' dissertation about His sheep in John 6. So then, answer my question, do you think I'm teaching antinomianism? yes or no?

Aaron112 said:

Genesis thru The Apocalypse shows mankind as intentionally and willingly idolatrous, like many members reading the forum. Not just willingly opposed to the truth, avidly breaking the law, harming as many as they are able to worldwide, but likewise stubbornly or willfully refusing to turn to God at all.

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Genesis through the Revelation shows all sorts of things, but not consistently. For example, one can easily see God's eternal love in the entire Bible. However, one also sees God's justice, as well. Justice is not love, is it?

This is a short video and I know that there will be cries of whackery. But its fun and you might learn something.

Let me know if there is any sense to what is said about the different signatures of works. Where a later culture may have come along and found these megaliths from a earlier people and reused them and even worshipped them. But orthodoxy has it that the same people that found these megaliths made them.

The Worldwide Megalithic Wall Mystery #podcast #science #history #ancient​

bbbbbbb said:

It does not describe folks who are intentionally idolatrous. There is no mention whatsoever of idolatry. You need to go to Romans 1 for that.

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Genesis thru The Apocalypse shows mankind as intentionally and willingly idolatrous, like many members reading the forum. Not just willingly opposed to the truth, avidly breaking the law, harming as many as they are able to worldwide, but likewise stubbornly or willfully refusing to turn to God at all.

Paulwat said:

Do you think Donald Trump should've been banned from running for president?

I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that Donald Trump was allowed to run for president again after everything that happened on January 6th, 2021. The Capitol riots weren’t just a random protest that got out of hand they were a direct result of months of Trump spreading lies about a “stolen” election and pressuring officials to overturn the results.


A sitting president encouraged his supporters to march on Congress during the certification of an election he lost, and people died because of it. That alone should’ve disqualified him from holding office again under the 14th Amendment (Section 3), which literally bans anyone who engaged in or incited an insurrection from serving in government.


On top of that, there are his criminal indictments... from trying to interfere in Georgia’s election results to mishandling classified documents. Any one of those cases would’ve ended most politicians’ careers, but somehow Trump’s using them as campaign fuel.

I
Whether you’re left, right, or independent, how does this not set a terrifying precedent? If someone can try to overturn an election and still be allowed to run again, what’s stopping future leaders from doing the same — maybe more effectively next time?

It's dangerous to allow a man like hin to have power.

What do you think?should the courts or Congress have acted to enforce the insurrection clause?

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Absolutely

Judah

Aaron112 said:

no, no thanks due me. See the Creator while He May Be Found, thanking HIM for His Mercy.....

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What is described in Ephesians 2:1-8 are those who are dead. Dead. Dead to God. Not alive. Dead spiritually.

It does not describe folks who are intentionally idolatrous. There is no mention whatsoever of idolatry. You need to go to Romans 1 for that.

It describes the fruits of death in Ephesians 2, which can be summarized as the fruit of pure, unadulterated selfishness.

The sad thing is that there are multitudes of professing Christians who remain intently selfish. They are eagerly seeking their own personal salvation. It is all about them. They are in it for the rewards, expecting a better mansion in heaven, greater rewards, more honor, etc. I believe that many of these folks are just as selfish as the vast majority of heathen who, despite never having had the slightest contact with Christianity, are just as dead in sin and just as selfish.