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Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T03:06:44-0600

contratodo said:
I have to quote the whole speech or I'm lying?
He did say 'truths protective layers' I did not miss quote him, that is the original point I was making, and the context and video of the speech confirms that he is indeed speaking about some sort of truth, what truth was he referring to is what to think about, instead, because the point is valid and you can't argue against it, you'd rather attack me than talk about the relevant point. Anyone reading this can see that I did not miss quote him, and thanks for posting the whole speech for others to see.

No, you did misquote him and intentionally ignored the context of what he was talking about in the whole speech.

ViaCrucis · 2025-11-09T03:06:09-0600

Hvizsgyak said:
But do you then agree that the US Government should be allowed to secure its borders more strictly so there are less illegal aliens? I'm with you on every person in the US (legal or illegal) should get access to affordable healthcare but I do have a problem with allowing thousands upon thousands illegal aliens into the country on a yearly basis.

Tighten up the borders. I don't think everyone should come here--there should be vetting, through legal channels of immigration.

If someone comes here illegally, they should be afforded a chance to rectify that by seeking legal residence; if they won't then they should be deported.

The point is that this should be done through legal (Constitutional) means, it should be humane, and it should be just. Treating undocumented immigrants as sub-human is morally evil. It doesn't matter that coming here illegally or over-staying is going on, all human beings deserve the most basic and fundamental treatment of dignity. There are fundamental human rights that need to be honored.

-CryptoLutheran

Dan1988 · 2025-11-09T03:04:16-0600

BNR32FAN said:
I apologize I just assumed that surely you must’ve read the gospel before.

“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭22‬ ‭NASB1995

“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭12‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭20‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And then of course there’s John 15:4-6 which you claim isn’t a commandment which is irrelevant because verse 6 is still a consequence, but I’m sure you won’t admit that either.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What a load of trash that is, I asked you to find a single verse in the bible to support your silly unbiblical version of the gospel, which you claim exists, but you have never ever found it and I told you that you will never find it because iot doesn't exist.

The only way your version of the gospel can stand, is if God lied to his people, when He said "by grace you were saved", but you say "no God, that's wrong because my priest taught me that we are "saved by works" You claim that the bible says "you must do this and that", I asked you to show me where, but you keep referring to scriptures which say nothing of the sort.

Either show me a single verse or admit that your version of the gospel is based on your feeling or emotions or your own private opinion.

contratodo · 2025-11-09T03:02:24-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I don't think you were being sincere with those questions in the slightest, especially in the light of you blatantly quote mining Neil Armstrong's words, so I have no reason to answer those questions

I have to quote the whole speech or I'm lying?
He did say 'truths protective layers' I did not miss quote him, that is the original point I was making, and the context and video of the speech confirms that he is indeed speaking about some sort of truth, what truth was he referring to is what to think about, instead, because the point is valid and you can't argue against it, you'd rather attack me than talk about the relevant point. Anyone reading this can see that I did not miss quote him, and thanks for posting the whole speech for others to see.

ViaCrucis · 2025-11-09T03:00:00-0600

BPPLEE said:
Then people should come here lawfully

And if they don't, we deny their human rights and dignity?

Do mothers trying to feed her children who didn't come here legally, or whose visas expired deserve to be beaten by masked thugs in front of her child in the middle of the street?

-CryptoLutheran

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T02:56:08-0600

contratodo said:
If your being sincere with me, please address the questions I asked, because I asked them from the context of the speech.

I don't think you were being sincere with those questions in the slightest, especially in the light of you blatantly quote mining Neil Armstrong's words, so I have no reason to answer those questions.

Dan1988 · 2025-11-09T02:54:46-0600

BNR32FAN said:
Don’t run from the discussion, explain why God is marveling at their unrepemtance. Or is it just another one of those unexplainable mysteries to you?

It sounds like you have taken the word "marvelling" way out of it's intended context. According to your version of the gospel, everything takes God by surprise. So He was shocked by their unwillingness to repent.

The true gospel, describes God as all knowing and nothing takes Him by surprise. So your interpretation of the word, must take that fact into consideration, otherwise it makes no sense.

contratodo · 2025-11-09T02:52:29-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Do you have any idea what allegory or poetic language is? Hyperbole, even? Or even context?

If your being sincere with me, please address the questions I asked, because I asked them from the context of the speech.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T02:49:16-0600

contratodo said:
I quoted exactly what he said, " breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers. "

So he was hinting that certain truth is protected by some layers, yes?

What truth is he referring to? What can you glean from everything he said, yes the context, in that speech? You think it is not truth related to what is outside of the sky? What is the very first thing he said? And why did he say that? What was his facial expression and body language at that moment?

Did you read the actual speech he gave? Here, I'll quote it again for you:

"Wilbur Wright once noted that the only bird that could talk was the parrot, and he didn’t fly very well [laughter from the audience], so I'll be brief. This week America has been recalling the Apollo program and reliving the memories of those times in which so many of us here, the colleagues here in the first rows, were immersed. Our old astrogeology mentor, Gene Shoemaker, even called in one of his comets to mark the occasion with spectacular Jovian fireworks and reminding us one again of the power and consequence of celestial extracurricular activities.

Many Americans were part of Apollo, about one or two in each thousand citizens, all across the country. They were asked by their country to do the impossible -- to envisage, to design and to build a method of breaking the bonds of Earth's gravity and then sally forth and visit another heavenly body. The principal elements -- leaving earth, navigating in space and descending to a planet unencumbered with runways and traffic controls -- would include the major requirements necessary for a spacefaring people.

Today a Space Shuttle flies overhead with an international crew. A number of countries have international space programs. During the space age we have increased the knowledge of our universe a thousandfold.

Today we have with us a group of students, among America's best. To you we say: we’ve only completed the beginning. We leave you much that is undone. There are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. There are places to go beyond belief. Those challenges are yours -- in many fields, not the least of which is space, because there lies human destiny. Thank you."

Do you have any idea what allegory or poetic language is? Hyperbole, even? Or even context?

Dan1988 · 2025-11-09T02:48:04-0600

joechristianwarrior said:
I was recently writing a video script on the Gospel, as if you ask ten different "Christians" to define it, you might just get ten different answers! The truth is that very few Gospel "formulas" actually quote the actual words of Jesus - most are just based off tradition and things they've heard from others who heard it from others, to the point where it becomes a religious version of Chinese whispers! I've tried to highlight this point in my most recent video about Jesus & social justice, after seeing so many "Christians" try to distance themselves from the need to help the poor, or the persecuted, or the underprivileged on the basis of spurious theological arguments such as justice in this life doesn't matter.... Login to view embedded media

Jesus did not come to rescue the poor from their poverty. He came to save those that the Father gave Him. My Church doesn't donate money to the charity organisations. We only send money to our sister Churches, so they can reach more people with the gospel.

It's more important to give the poor the gospel than it is to give them food. The gospel is spiritual food, which never perishes.
Jesus said the poor will be with us all the time, because there is no solution to poverty in a fallen world. Poverty and injustice, is the way of the world. As you rightly said, Jesus will make all things right when He comes back, until then we can expect everything to keep getting worse all the time.

stevevw · 2025-11-09T02:47:17-0600

This is just part of 'Anything Goes' culture. Its all justified as art and language and narratives. But its still promotes an untimely negative and bad image that can easily feed into the garbage narratives that end up being acted out in realife violence and murder.

I mean why was he wearing a mask lol. Obvious he does not want to be identified because he already has many after him lol. If I have a job or occupation that causes my life to be under threat and have to hide. I think he should find another job or subject lol.

contratodo · 2025-11-09T02:46:42-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No, you quote-mined him; taking something he said out of context and then making him to say something completely different to what he actually said. You lied by omission.

I quoted exactly what he said, " breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers. "

So he was hinting that certain truth is protected by some layers, yes?

What truth is he referring to? What can you glean from everything he said, yes the context, in that speech? You think it is not truth related to what is outside of the sky? What is the very first thing he said? And why did he say that? What was his facial expression and body language at that moment?

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T02:44:38-0600

Strong in Him said:
Lies make baby Jesus cry??

~~Have you never heard that phrase?~~

I also have just remembered it's from The Simpsons.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-09T02:43:51-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Lies make Baby Jesus cry.

Lies make baby Jesus cry??

Kjelete · 2025-11-09T02:38:45-0600

AV1611VET said:
Hi, Kjelete!

Welcome to CF!

Yes, indeed, God created the first sun.

But God has always existed, and He spoke the universe into existence with His immense power; raising the level of mass/energy from zero to what it is today, over a six-day period.

Thanks, you made my day :wave:

Kjelete · 2025-11-09T02:37:10-0600

Bradskii said:
Stopped reading at exactly that point.

Sorry I can`t explain it better, scientists don`t explain much. Maybe it`s not meant to be understood

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T02:35:00-0600

But the Earth is a round globe though.

contratodo · 2025-11-09T02:33:11-0600

"The sun rejoices as a strong man to run a race it's circular path is from one end of the sky to the other and nothing under heaven is hid from the heat of it." Psalm 19

"He will surely turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country" Isaiah 22:18

"It is He that sits above the whole circle of the earth." Isaiah 40:22

The Bible makes a difference between a circle and a ball, the earth is not being called a ball or a sphere but a circle.

There is a literal city literally on top of the sky, with streets of transparent gold, in the end that city comes, down. Revelation 21:2. God's throne is out in the open in the middle of that city Rev 22, He literally sits above the circle of the earth, He literally is the highest.

“Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt"
Job 38:8-11

It is limited, stopped, by the sky, and the outer edge of the land. The sky is a dome over the sea.

"The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment"
Job 38:14

The clay is the land, the seal is the firmament.

And God called the firmament Heaven. Genesis 1:8

And God called the dry land Earth. Genesis 1:10

Apple Sky · 2025-11-09T02:18:50-0600

A few years back, genius, Eddie Alencar, published '16 Emergency Landings' which make more sense on F/E map.

https://www.flatearthresearch.com/w...EWoQBPw7PjIT6q0rXqGRAdztCiYU8kK8zb5j-WDsGBIWc

More here:

Login to view embedded media
If you consider the above, you will realize that pilots use the above map or something extremely similar, and never a globe or anything close to that.

The truth is there for anyone who wants it.

bob121 · 2025-11-09T02:18:24-0600

timothyu said:
Jesus said there will always be poor so the churches took it to mean it was an opportunity to empire build

Brother timothyu,

Grace and peace to you in Christ. Jesus said the poor would always be with us (Mark 14:7), but as a call to open hands, not empire-building. Churches twist it into a license for marble foyers while widows wait. Spot on.

I’ve been thinking about that one for a while—the pastor’s six-figure salary (still “not enough”) versus the poor fellow down the road who calls a $20 gift “a fortune” with a bigger thank-you than the sum.

So pour the surplus into mercy and mission? That’s the gospel heartbeat (James 1:27). More thoughts always welcome.

Have a great day/night. God bless.

Warden_of_the_Storm · 2025-11-09T02:17:21-0600

contratodo said:
What lies? I quoted exactly what he said.

....There are.... breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers.

Are you trying to mark my dots as lies? The dots signify that more was said, I quoted what I remembered, and what I quoted was exactly what he said.

Are aliens throwing asteroids at us? No, it is a satanic deception dear ones.

No, you quote-mined him; taking something he said out of context and then making him to say something completely different to what he actually said. You lied by omission.

Lies make Baby Jesus cry.

contratodo · 2025-11-09T02:13:51-0600

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
There are great ideas undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. There are places to go beyond belief. Those challenges are yours -- in many fields, not the least of which is space, because there lies human destiny. Thank you."

The old childhood adage of 'Lies make Baby Jesus cry' still stands

What lies? I quoted exactly what he said.

....There are.... breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers.

Are you trying to mark my dots as lies? The dots signify that more was said, I quoted what I remembered, and what I quoted was exactly what he said.

Are aliens throwing asteroids at us? No, it is a satanic deception dear ones.

Tom D · 2025-11-09T02:05:29-0600

Having a creative hobby can bring you constant joy, even in adversity.
Cervantes wrote 'Don Quixote' while in prison, it would have been much more painful if he were not doing it.

Of course, the Christian faith & practices are the foundation of a joyful life.

bob121 · 2025-11-09T02:01:45-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
I accidently deleted my original post, not sure how I did that, so I may be more brief on this one.

I appreciate the warm welcome, and agree we need to treasure the Lords day as a holy convocation, but we need to honor the one God said so, no? isn’t that the whole point? I would think it would be the only one God claimed in His own words as My holy day, the holy day of the Lord, meaning there’s just one Isa8:13 and told us to keep holy on a weekly basis Exo20:8-11 Lev 23:3, the only day God sanctified in the entire Bible, as far as I know man can’t sanctify a day or sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 only God can to do this and both of these are only linked to God’s Sabbath Eze20:12 Gen2:3 Exo20:11

Yes the Scriptures and pattern through Jesus and apotles are very plain. I do not think its wise to take this clear pattern and change it to a different day it loses all its value because it becomes a man-made tradition over a commandment of God, coming with His power and sanctification. Something Paul warned about in the same passage you quoted Col2:8

Can you tell me how our Creator and Sanctifier could ever be a shadow of anything? Is the Creator not the Subtance? Sorry this argument doesn't make sense.

Yes, He did. He rested on the seventh day, rose and went back to His Fathers work on the first day. Can you point to the verse that says because He rose on the first day, we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment but keep Sunday instead?

His faithful disciples who followed Jesus everywhere kept the Sabbath after His death according to the commandment Luke23:56 they were the first ones to see Jesus after He rose, had there been a change to one of His commandments why would He not tell them or anyone. An argument from silence over the plain written and spoken Word of God does not seem like a good idea to me.

This was an annual feast and there is no Scripture that says Pentecost was on the first day, it could have fallen on any day.

They broke bread daily Acts 2:46 and 1Cor16:2 was not a church offering, it was a one time at home collection to help the needy. Neither of these verses say anything about transferring the 4th commandment to the first day. That would be something only God could do, He already promised in His word He would not Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19

I know this is the go to verse everyone uses to get rid of the 4th commandment but with this serious of warning of Paul’s writing doesn’t it deserve more than just a surface read if we are going to use it against the Testimony of God. Exo 31:18

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Lets bring in some more context

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul is speaking about something that was handwritten and was against and contrary to us.

The weekly Sabbath was written by the finger of God along with the other 9 commandments Deut4:13 Exo31:18 and God singled out the Sabbath in this unit as the one being holy and blessed by God and points to Him as our Creator. Exo20:11 And the God we are to worship in the very three commandments. What God blessed man can’t reverse Numbers 23:20 we would need a thus saith the Lord to get rid of the 4th commandment. God said He would not alter His words Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19. Would Paul really be teaching against God? I do not think so… this is what Paul was quoting

2 Cor 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

God wrote the Ten Commandments which included the Sabbath commandment, its under His mercy seat, was written by the Holy Spirit of Truth, man cannot edit this as there is no one greater than He. Moses hand wrote all the other laws that included the animal sacrifices, annual feast days, that some were also annual sabbaths that had to do with food and drink offerings the context of this passage and was placed besides the ark there as a witness against Deuteronomy 31:24-26 so clearly this is what Paul is quoting and the shadow he was pointing to Heb10:1-10 Heb9:10-15.

The weekly Sabbath started at Creation Exo20:11 when God made everything according to His perfect plan, before a need of a plan of salvation so its not a shadow of anything, it points to our Creator, Exo20:11 our Sanctifier Eze20:11 and the God we are to worship Rev 14:7

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27- what God made for man is not against man, so this teaching that it’s about God’s Sabbath is really an attack on the character of God.

Jesus in His own words said the Sabbath would be kept up to His Second Coming Mat24:20 and for eternity Isa66:23 so obviously Col 2:16 cannot be about God’s holy Sabbath day. Again as we see in the life of the apostles keeping every Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles just as Jesus said Isa56:6-7 decades after the Cross.

There is no first day pattern in all of Scripture. The apotles did things daily, doesn’t mean it starts deleting the commandments of God.

Please re-read the Biblical pattern with plain Scriptures provided to you in the post you are replying to. This is God’s will, not doing something different. Making a common day as a holy day never worked out before for anyone Eze22:26. I do not think it will again.

PS: Jason in Japan, I love Japan, only went there once, loved it, hope I can go back again once day soon.

Brother SabbathBlessings,

Thank you for this thoughtful, Scripture-saturated reply—glad you enjoyed Japan! It’s a unique country and very peaceful; I love the wa (harmony, space for each other) unlike back home where everyone crowds in.

The Lord uses even mishaps (deletes) to refine our thoughts and words.

You ask the heart of it: If God claims one day as “My holy day,” dare we shift it? Fair question. Let’s walk gently through the texts—this is a good opportunity for views to be shared.

The Sabbath is God’s gift—creation sign (Gen 2:3), redemption sign (Deut 5:15), sanctification seal (Ex 31:13). No dispute.
Yet Colossians 2:16–17 calls sabbaths (plural, including the weekly) a shadow whose substance is Christ. Paul isn’t contradicting God; he’s saying the shadow points to the One now present.
The shift isn’t man-made tradition—it’s resurrection reality:
- Christ rose first day (Matt 28:1).
- Spirit poured out on a first-day feast (Acts 2).
- Church broke bread and collected on the first day (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2). That’s apostolic pattern, not Roman invention.

Jesus kept the seventh day perfectly—for us. Now He is our Sabbath rest (Heb 4:9–10). We don’t abandon the convocation; we fulfill it in Him, gathering where His victory is proclaimed.

You love the texts—let’s keep digging together. What do you make of the first-day gatherings in Acts and Corinthians? No pressure, just iron sharpening iron.

Thank you again for your thoughts—it gives me a chance to dig deeper, always good for the mind.

Have a great day/night. God bless.

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