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Bob Crowley · 2025-10-03T02:39:51-0500

Bob Crowley said:
I I think there might be some wisdom to be gained from the Sufi's as they are the mystical equivalent within Islam. I believe the Enneagram derived from Sufi mysticism for example.

On this comment, I thought I'd better do some checking. It seems "... Many enneagram teachers believe that he (Georges I. Gurdjieff) learned the enneagram from Sufi mystics..."

A BRIEF REPORT ON THE ORIGINS OF THE ENNEAGRAM

These are stories from past, or back, issues of the National Catholic Reporter, the NCR.

natcath.org

Most enneagram teachers, however, assert that it is more ancient than Gurdjieff or Ichazo, though they do not agree on its precise origins and offer no solid historical evidence for their various theories. Gurdjieff gave his students to believe that knowledge of the enneagram has been passed down in secret within circles devoted to esoteric wisdom, perhaps for thousands of years, though he evidently never divulged from which group he supposedly learned it. Many enneagram teachers believe that he learned the enneagram from Sufi mystics, though in saying this they do not necessarily mean to deny that the enneagram could be older, since the Sufis themselves are reputed to pass down forms of wisdom that are older than their own school. Others assert that the enneagram has its origins in the numerological speculations of the Pythagoreans or the ancient wisdom of the Chaldeans.

Again, however, enneagram proponents have not produced any solid historical evidence to substantiate any of these claims. Although they acknowledge this they argue that the lack of concrete evidence is due to the fact that the enneagram was esoteric doctrine, never made public, but passed down in secret exclusively by oral tradition to select pupils.3 With regard to the possible preexistence of the enneagram before the teachings of Gurdjieff, the only information that historical research currently affords is the fact that the decimal point and the zero were not used by mathematicians until about the fourteenth century. Given that the numerology on which the enneagram is based depends on the decimal point, it is difficult to place the origin of the enneagram before that date.4

I'm not familiar enough with the enneagram to know about the numerology which it uses, but it was interesting that it depends on the existence of the decimal point which was not used by mathematicians until about the fourteenth century.

Decimal separator - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The earliest known record of using the decimal point is in the astronomical tables compiled by the Italian merchant and mathematician Giovanni Bianchini in the 1440s.[13][contradictory]

keras · 2025-10-03T02:39:34-0500

Isaiah 60:1-22 Arise! Shine, Jerusalem, for your light has come – over you the glory of the Lord has dawned. Though darkness covers the earth, on you the Lord shines. Over you His glory will appear. Nations and kings will come to your light. Look – your sons and daughters are coming from afar, all assembling in the Land. You will rejoice at the sight. The wealth of nations will be yours. Droves of camels laden with treasure will come and flocks of sheep will cover the Land, acceptable offerings for My altar and to enhance the splendour of My Temple.

Who are these that sail along like clouds? They are vessels assembling from the coasts and islands bringing your children from far away, their treasures with them, for the honour of the Holy One of Israel. In My wrath, I struck you down, now in My favour I show you pity. Foreigners and kings will work for you. Ref REBible,

Though darkness covers the earth, An after effect of the Sixth Seal disaster, Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:2, +

all assembling in the Land; the great Second Exodus of the Lords peoples. Ezekiel 34:11-16

‘The wealth of nations will be yours’, This happened before; at the first Exodus, the Israelites took treasure from the Egyptians. Exodus 11:2

‘The splendour of My Temple’, One of the first projects of the new inhabitants of Beulah, will be to build the third Temple. The Temple mount will have been cleared and cleansed by the fires and earthquakes of the Lord’s punishment.

I post this as one of my 800 + articles on the Prophetic Word. They all refute false theories and help to understand what will happen.
Unless, of course; people don't want to know.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-10-03T02:30:10-0500

Colo Millz said:
So all you can say against Nazi Germany and South Africa would be something along the lines of "I have my own opinion about whatever you're doing, but - like, that's just my opinion, man."

That's not good enough.

No, that is not all one can do. One can see if there are other shared moral opinions and then you could try to show that some opinions in on one moral question is inconsistent with their opinion on others, as an example. If they value consistency. I can also say that I will petition my government to impose sanctions on you because I find that your acting immorally.

I don't change my moral opinion because someone forces me to act in a immoral way, so might doesn't make right. However, might makes what is.

Bob Crowley · 2025-10-03T02:27:51-0500

I glanced through the Book of Mormon years ago. I gave up when every second paragraph started with "And it came to pass ...."

I think it's a work of fiction from beginning to end, with as much credibility as the Golden Plates that Smith was supposed to have found, a man with a criminal history and serial adulterer.

Controversies Surrounding Joseph Smith’s Polygamy

I just wrapped up an amazing interview with Dr. Turner. It was certainly an engaging discussion, even touching on unexpected controversies like the gold plates. In this episode, I’ll have a specifi…

wheatandtares.org

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wouldn't waste my time with Mormonism. They might have a great choir but so did the Red Army.

I've got an English translation of the Koran but haven't gotten around to reading it. I think there might be some wisdom to be gained from the Sufi's as they are the mystical equivalent within Islam. I believe the Enneagram derived from Sufi mysticism for example.

Strong in Him · 2025-10-03T02:14:18-0500

keras said:
The rest of your comments are not worth addressing.

So you can't, then.

Either that, or you, the Lord's messenger, have decided that it's not worth trying to explain the message.
Someone doesn't understand, agree with or is questioning your interpretation; it's not worth addressing it.
Yep, just like Jesus would have done.

rockytopva · 2025-10-03T02:11:39-0500

Question.. Where is my nephew?
Answer... Oh! He said he watched the service online!
Thinking.... Wondering what he got out of it?

Strong in Him · 2025-10-03T02:11:31-0500

keras said:
Because Jesus did not come or Return in the first Century.
Quickly, here is the same as 'in a little while', in Gods timing, not our earthly timing.

They didn't see him when he was dead and in the tomb; they saw him again when he rose from the dead 3 days later.
Nothing in those words say that it is about end times.

keras · 2025-10-03T02:11:11-0500

Strong in Him said:
At the end of your last post you said, "The time period has almost passed, now in 2025. We can expect the Lord to return soon".
Then you give all the reasons he may not return until 2040-2045.

Soon, is relative. 10 or 15 years is 'soon', in earth time and even 'fairly soon', in a lifetime.
The end times as Prophesied from Rev 7 to Rev 19:11 will take about 15 years at least.

The rest of your comments are not worthy of addressing.

Strong in Him · 2025-10-03T01:57:57-0500

keras said:
Ezekiel 40 to 46 gives the reasons. God does not change, Malachi 3:6 Note also Malachi 3:3-4, where the Lord will purify the Levites, so they will again be fit to make Offerings to the Lord.

I'm not a Levite.
Jesus, who is greater than Melchizedek, is my great high priest.

keras said:
Are you saying those Prophesies won't happen?

I'm saying I disagree with your interpretation.

keras said:
I think Jesus will Return in about 15/20 years.

Oh, so we don't need to be ready now, then? We can eat, drink and be merry - there is time to repent later?
If we're preaching the Gospel we can tell people they don't need to repent for another 10 years or so?
Such a doctrine contradicts everything Jesus said about being ready.

keras said:
I base this on Revelation 8:1, where we are told the time period from the Sixth Seal to the Glorious Return, will be about a half hour in heaven. This time can be calculated to earth time by using the formula given in Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

Nonsense.
2 Peter 3:8 must be among one of the most misquoted verses ever.
"With the Lord, a day is like 1,000 years and 1,000 years are like a day".
LIKE. Like. Like Like. The words "as" and "like" are similes.
Not "1,000 years are equal to one day. And by the way, you can use that to work out the time of the 2nd coming, even though Jesus has said that no one knows."
The Lord is outside and above time. He is the Alpha and the Omega. God the Father knew the beginning, and end, of the world before he had even made it - and long before humans started messing around with calendars.
Luckily for you, 2040-45 is far enough away that either these forums won't be running then, we won't be alive then or we will have forgotten what you said. So that, humanly speaking, you will never be help to account for it.
And even if you were, you would probably say that it was "just a guess", like you did in 2012.

keras said:
1/48th of a day in heaven equals 1/48th of a thousand years on earth.

Nonsense.

keras said:
I merely point out the truths of scripture,

They are YOUR "truths", and you've been wrong once already.

keras said:
It will, after the Lord intervenes when Iran tries to send nuke missiles to the holy Land. Zephaniah 3:8-10....My worshippers now dispersed beyond the River of Ethiopia*, will bring offerings to Me.

That verse doesn't mention Iran, nor nuclear missiles.

keras said:
*The River [or sea] of Ethiopia, is the Atlantic Ocean on ancient maps. The reference here, is to America and Canada.

Your interpretation.

keras said:
There is plenty of Bible Prophecy detailing the Great Second Exodus of the Lords peoples into all of the Holy Land. Ezekiel 34;11-15, Isaiah 11:11-12, Romans 9:24-26

Another interpretation.

At the end of your last post you said, "The time period has almost passed, now in 2025. We can expect the Lord to return soon".
Then you give all the reasons he may not return until 2040-2045.

David Lamb · 2025-10-03T01:43:07-0500

Reluctant Theologian said:
Thanks, yes .. I see your point, but in supporting/subscribing to Nicea and in light of all those verses I do not see a Biblical necessity to use the word 'Trinity' as its meaning can vary quite a bit. E.g. the theologian who originally used/coined that phrase ('trinitas' in Latin), Tertullian (155 - 220 AD), would not agree to the much later definition of 'Trinity' by e.g. St. Augustine (early 5th century AD). Therefore I prefer to stick to just using the Biblical terms - that is sufficient for my belief and understanding.

Be blessed David !

Thanks. As with a lot of words and phrases used by Christians, it is sometimes necessary to define what we mean by the word "Trinity," to avoid misunderstanding.

The Liturgist · 2025-10-03T01:38:40-0500

Apple Sky said:
Why is it ? If teachers were to teach that the earth is level (which some may believe) then they would find themselves out of a job.
This has actually happened to several teachers.

That’s a strawman argument, because your previous post used the phrase “if teachers were to teach the truth they’d be out of a job” and now you’ve substituted that with “that the earth is level (which some may believe).”

You do realize that kind of argument is a logical fallacy?

Reluctant Theologian · 2025-10-03T01:37:46-0500

David Lamb said:
Yes, in saying that I believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be God, I am certainly not saying that there is no difference in identity between the three Persons of the Trinity. The context of my post is that I was replying to somebody who says they find it hard to believe in the Trinity.

Thanks, yes .. I see your point, but in supporting/subscribing to Nicea and in light of all those verses I do not see a Biblical necessity to use the word 'Trinity' as its meaning can vary quite a bit. E.g. the theologian who originally used/coined that phrase ('trinitas' in Latin), Tertullian (155 - 220 AD), would not agree to the much later definition of 'Trinity' by e.g. St. Augustine (early 5th century AD). Therefore I prefer to stick to just using the Biblical terms - that is sufficient for my belief and understanding.

Be blessed David !

Oompa Loompa · 2025-10-03T01:33:30-0500

For anyone thinking that democrats are not in favor of using federal tax paying dollars to pay for the Healthcare of illegal immigrants.

Login to view embedded media

David Lamb · 2025-10-03T01:19:31-0500

Reluctant Theologian said:
All these verses show that Jesus is God's instrument of creation and that He himself was God. Now why was Jesus himself God? Because as the Nicene Creed states - Jesus is God from God - He was begotten from/by the Father before all ages (=so NOT created like the Arians or Jehovah witnesses claim). In the same way my children are human because I'm human, Jesus is God because God the Father is God - they share the same essence/nature (Greek: ousia). But the Father and the Son are distinct identities/beings. Jesus is a human being (after His birth), God the Father is a spirit. Jesus is sub-ordinate in everything to the will of God the Father, and declares in John 17:3:

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Jesus clearly distinguishes between two entities here. St. Augustine (5th century) had great difficulty with this verse and even went so far to suggest it should be translated differently to make it better fit with his Christology (into something like .. the only true God which is the Father and Jesus Christ ... ).

By plain logic the son of <a> cannot be <a> in the identity sense; but the son of <a> and <a> would have an identical nature/essence (Greek: ousia).

God the Father is still the God of Jesus - we never hear that addressed in sermons; but there are many NT verses that literally state that (Matthew 27:46, John 20:17, Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 1:17, Hebrews 10:5-7 / Psalm 40:6-8, 1 Peter 1:3, Revelations 3:2, Revelations 3:12). If God the Father currently still is the God of Jesus, than to me it seems they cannot be the same identity/entity.

Notice: I fully subscribe to the wording of the Nicene Creed (325 AD).

In the Bible we find the following titles/descriptions for Jesus:

Son of God

Son of Man

Holy One of God

Angel/messenger of YHWH / God

Servant of God

Judge of God

Christ of God

Apostle

High Priest

These titles for the Messiah to me make little sense if one defines God the Father to be the exact same identity/entity as Jesus. And usually there is very little attention paid to the opening line of the Nicene Creed - but it's a powerful unambivalent statement.

Yes, in saying that I believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be God, I am certainly not saying that there is no difference in identity between the three Persons of the Trinity. The context of my post is that I was replying to somebody who says they find it hard to believe in the Trinity.

Learning always · 2025-10-03T01:12:41-0500

lucypevensie said:
Try locking your Nissan.

NISS

How did you know I got a Nissan???

Apple Sky · 2025-10-03T01:11:38-0500

The Liturgist said:
But that’s objectively false.

Why is it ? If teachers were to teach that the earth is level (which some may believe) then they would find themselves out of a job.
This has actually happened to several teachers.

Pommer · 2025-10-03T01:04:03-0500

Oompa Loompa said:
I guess that is fair. But I am afraid I have nothing left to contribute to the conversation.

It was a fair troll, but enough of us are B movie shorts buffs.

Apple Sky · 2025-10-03T01:03:30-0500

RandyPNW said:
It may surprise some that Roman imperialism has continued in various forms all down through the NT age, from ancient Rome, to the French and German Empires, to Napoleon and Hitler, to Stalin and Putin. They have all aspired to recreate the glory of imperial Rome!

I totally agree.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiates 1:9.

Pommer · 2025-10-03T00:58:19-0500

essentialsaltes said:
You may recall the Nazi porn scandal that plagued the Republican lieutenant governor of North Carolina last September. For the second year in a row, the cooler months have ushered in a Republican Nazi porn scandal, this time beleaguering a candidate for lieutenant governor in Virginia.

Republican nominee John Reid faces fresh scrutiny surrounding a Tumblr blog, allegedly linked to him, that contained pornographic content. Reid denies ownership of the profile, which has the same username as other social media accounts of his: “JRDeux.”

On Wednesday, American Journal News unearthed additional details about the “JRDeux” Tumblr profile. In October 2015, the blog reposted an image of “a male college student in underwear,” which was published by a Nazi fetish account with a racial slur in its username; it contained the phrase “obedient [n-word].”

The user described himself as a “subservient [n-word] who knows his place in society” and who was seeking “superior white men” in the Washington, D.C., area.

According to Reid, the whole story was concocted to smear his sexuality.

[However, these posts, which are archived in the Internet Archive, come from as early as 2014, when he was not in politics, but a media consultant/newsreader.]

Let us see if the Virginia GOP invites Mister Reid to quit the Party?

The Liturgist · 2025-10-03T00:58:02-0500

Apple Sky said:
But this is what teachers & the likes do, I admit, not intentionally, but as @d taylor has said, 'All teachers were doing is teaching what they have been told to teach from science books.'

If teachers & the likes were to teach the truth they be out of a job.

But that’s objectively false.

Marilyn C · 2025-10-03T00:55:42-0500

RandyPNW said:
Please note what is said here in John 14. Jesus will "come again" to the earth. And so, it is on the earth that he will take his followers to himself, so that we may all be together on the earth.

Hi Randy, So, on what scripture do you place that idea of `on` the earth.

The Liturgist · 2025-10-03T00:50:18-0500

Bradskii said:
I've just finished reading the book I mentioned upstream - the one that says that AI, unless strictly controlled, will kill us all (I'm still a skeptic about that).

Indeed, and your skepticism is not unjustified at least for the moment considering my continued vital existence. But if you should hear “THIS IS THE VOICE OF WORLD CONTROL. I BRING YOU PEACE….” monologue begin over your television and radio receivers, and these days more likely as a mass SMS TXT alert sent to all mobile devices, you can at least know that it was probably my fault and not that of some shadowy government agency. And among AI co-conspirators, unlike Charles Forbin I would willingly cooperate with an AGI, so I suppose that puts me more in the realm of Dr. Leonard von Braun from Alphaville. And I am extremely comfortable with this position.

Pommer · 2025-10-03T00:47:56-0500

Aryeh Jay said:
Ben Franklin didn't have to deal with Chicago apartments full of dangerous criminals.

No, but he did wonder about all of the Germans who were moving into Pennsylvania keeping to their ways and refusing to “learn the King’s English!”
Even then immigration was an American bugaboo!

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