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Bradskii · 2025-11-19T22:39:15-0600

Fervent said:
nope, they're both right. You're just falling for Islamist apologist propaganda.

Yeah, an islamist apologetics site is not the best way to get accurate information about things that aren't flattering to Islam. But hey, not everyone has the time to actually read the hadith and sira, as well as the ishtijad which is mostly in disagreement with those claims until recent attempts at whitewashing. But I'm sure you source all of your information about religions from their apologists, right?

The Quran is like the bible. Open to different interpretations. I get all my info about it from various people who interpret it their own way. If I'd actually read the whole thing then I'd have my own interpretation. Now, unless you have a quote or a reading or an interpretation that says Muslims can "kill those who don't convert" which isn't clarified by other verses as I did above then bring it to the table. Otherwise...

Oops, my bad. maybe that should be "kill anyone who doesn't convert".

Bradskii · 2025-11-19T22:32:51-0600

AV1611VET said:
Fine.

But let's make this even harder.

In a laboratory, put the cards back together in their previous order.

What's changed? anything?

The cards were "alive" once.

Then the cellophane was removed, the cards were shuffled, and they were "killed."

Manhandling them killed them, and now they'll never be the same.

We're assuming that the cards were in a random state to begin with. The 'prebiotic soup'. All the ingredients are there but no order. Get them in a particular order and you end up with life. Dealing cards randomly and hoping to get the sequence right in any given deal is all but impossible (frog in a blender). But if there is tiny advantage in getting a specific card out first, then there'll be a tendency for that second card to associate itself with the first when it is dealt. And the sequence gradually builds, until you have all the cards in the order that you want.

keras · 2025-11-19T22:22:00-0600

Brother Del said:
Many Christian believers are indeed descended from Abraham.

Everybody alive today has some of Abrahams genes. This is a fact of genetic dispersion, over the 3000 years, divided by 40 years = 75
God's Promises to the Patriarchs will be kept, by those peoples who accept the salvation offered by Jesus. The Overcomers for God; literally - His Israelites.

Brother Del said:
the 10 northern tribes were an incredibly ethnically diverse group

Yes, they had the diverse characteristics of Jacobs sons. The meaning of their names and their various attributes as Prophesied by Jacob and Moses.
We know who and where they are now, from how each people group of the world received the Gospel message. Matthew 15:24
The Christian nation of South Korea is a good example.

A2SG · 2025-11-19T22:21:07-0600

Valletta said:
A lot of them don't know what fascism is.

Kind of like when some accuse others of being socialists or communists.

-- A2SG, a lot of people today don't know the meaning of many words....

Bradskii · 2025-11-19T22:20:57-0600

AV1611VET said:
I'm going to disagree here.

Obviously. But it doesn't really change anything regards the matter at hand. God can install a soul anytime He wants.

AV1611VET said:
I agree.

But the point is that, after the blender is shut off, you have all the hardware necessary for life to occur.

Why can't life emerge then from that pool of "biotic soup"?

It can't do it all instantly. As we agreed (as you just agreed above). If there is a 'biotic soup' then you need very many interactions between various materials to start the process. And the number of interactions and the time for each to happen is considerable. And each has to happen in sequence. Like you build a house. You start with foundations, then you build the frame. Then add the external walls etc etc. Throwing concrete and bricks and wood together randomly wouldn't work.

The hurricane in the junkyard is the same metaphor. The 747 isn't going to simply emerge fully formed. To get to that point you needed gliders to start. Then clumsy powered flight. Then control surfaces. First it was wood and fabric. Then metal, then aluminium then composites, then propellers, then jet engines...you can't jump from no aircraft straight to a 747.

AV1611VET said:
As if it was alive at one point, then died, and you can't get it to fly anymore.

The pieces will often degenerate if they are not still part of the original system. But if you store them properly then you could rebuild it. Just like if you cut a leg off, if it is done so the leg doesn't start decomposing then you can reattach it on times. If your heart gives out you can get a new one. But there is currently a medical limit as to what can be taken out and replaced.

AV1611VET said:
I'll go back and take a look at your deck of cards more seriously.

Cool.

iluvatar5150 · 2025-11-19T22:14:36-0600

BPPLEE said:
Couldn't Biden have ordered the release then? What was he waiting on?

No. My understanding is that he couldn't (or perhaps really really shouldn't) release them until Maxwell's appeals were finished, which didn't happen until this year.

d taylor · 2025-11-19T22:07:52-0600

-

You want me to post every time a black person is murdered in The Delta.

1 dead in Tuesday night Greenville shootings

Fervent · 2025-11-19T22:04:39-0600

Bradskii said:
You made two statements. And they both mean the same thing. And they are both wrong.

nope, they're both right. You're just falling for Islamist apologist propaganda.

Bradskii said:
From here: https://islam.ru/en/content/story/slay-unbelievers-wherever-you-find-them-verse-sword-explained

'The Quran says, “Slay them wherever you find them…” which abrogates all the peaceful verses in the Quran and lets Muslims kill any non-Muslim they want.'

But...

'This verse commands Muslims to defend their community against idolaters who violated their peace treaty obligations and were waging a war of aggression.

The verse is applicable only to hostile armies and not to non-Muslims in general. We should look at the entire chapter and interpret the verses comprehensively and consistently, rather than taking one verse out of context.

And...

"When the sacred months have passed, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give charity, let them go on their way. Verily, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.:

But...

Some scholars referred to this as the “verse of the sword” because it commands the Muslims to defend the community against their enemies, but this is merely the designation of some scholars and it was not labeled as such by the Prophet, his companions, or the early Muslims. The verse allows for hostilities to cease if the idolaters repent from their transgression and become Muslims. Even if they refuse to accept Islam, the verse immediately following commands peace with any idolater who stops fighting and asks for a covenant of security.

Yeah, an islamist apologetics site is not the best way to get accurate information about things that aren't flattering to Islam. But hey, not everyone has the time to actually read the hadith and sira, as well as the ishtijad which is mostly in disagreement with those claims until recent attempts at whitewashing. But I'm sure you source all of your information about religions from their apologists, right?

NxNW · 2025-11-19T22:02:40-0600

Hentenza said:
The wall is only as good as the door.

Where's the door? Link?

The Liturgist · 2025-11-19T22:02:35-0600

bob121 said:
Hey Colo Millz, Kiwi in Tokyo here—years of chronic pain have made Phil 3:10 my lifeline. When I choose to unite the ache to Christ’s, it stops feeling pointless and becomes partnership: purging pride, deepening compassion, and reminding me the nails weren’t the worst part—bearing our sin was (Luke 22:44). Biblical, provided we remember our pain participates in, never completes, His finished work (Col 1:24; Rom 8:18). Thanks for putting biblical meat on a hard reality—fellow-partakers, not the punished. Grace to you.

I myself also suffer from chronic pain and know of what you speak. It is a consolation.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-11-19T22:02:04-0600

Fervent said:
Carnal Christians sounds menacing...like calling them meat. But I suppose such names are good for looking down the end of our noses at people.

Christians who walk in the flesh. Galatians 5.

Bradskii · 2025-11-19T22:00:37-0600

Fervent said:
I spoke of muslim beligerants, and I stand by my statement even with you attempting to mischaracterize it.

You made two statements. And they both mean the same thing. And they are both wrong.

Fervent said:
It's not just apostates, it's anyone they classify as kafiri...which is pagans, polytheists, atheists, and idolaters.

From here: https://islam.ru/en/content/story/slay-unbelievers-wherever-you-find-them-verse-sword-explained

'The Quran says, “Slay them wherever you find them…” which abrogates all the peaceful verses in the Quran and lets Muslims kill any non-Muslim they want.'

But...

'This verse commands Muslims to defend their community against idolaters who violated their peace treaty obligations and were waging a war of aggression.

The verse is applicable only to hostile armies and not to non-Muslims in general. We should look at the entire chapter and interpret the verses comprehensively and consistently, rather than taking one verse out of context.

And...

"When the sacred months have passed, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give charity, let them go on their way. Verily, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.:

But...

Some scholars referred to this as the “verse of the sword” because it commands the Muslims to defend the community against their enemies, but this is merely the designation of some scholars and it was not labeled as such by the Prophet, his companions, or the early Muslims. The verse allows for hostilities to cease if the idolaters repent from their transgression and become Muslims. Even if they refuse to accept Islam, the verse immediately following commands peace with any idolater who stops fighting and asks for a covenant of security.

BPPLEE · 2025-11-19T21:48:45-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Trump says he signed Epstein bill
It's unlikely the Justice Department would release the entire Epstein file, according to sources. Any materials related to ongoing investigations or White House claims of executive privilege will likely remain out of public view.

Trump did not need to wait for Congress to act -- he could order the release immediately.

Couldn't Biden have ordered the release then? What was he waiting on?

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-19T21:46:35-0600

Trump says he signed Epstein bill

It's unlikely the Justice Department would release the entire Epstein file, according to sources. Any materials related to ongoing investigations or White House claims of executive privilege will likely remain out of public view.

Trump did not need to wait for Congress to act -- he could order the release immediately.

Fervent · 2025-11-19T21:44:58-0600

concretecamper said:
2 Tim 3:15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:

The Scriptures Timothy knew from his infancy ( most likely before Christ was crucified ) is the Tanakh. Paul COULD NOT be referring to the Bible. Paul was referring to the Tanakh.

There's also the question of what theopneustas means in context, because there is a good case to be made that prior to Origen the idea was a life-giving property to the texts which fits with Pauls focus on the usefulness of the Scriptures in pastoral service rather than a theory of inspiration. It is out-breath not in-breath.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-19T21:43:57-0600

concretecamper said:
2 Tim 3:15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
3:16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:

The Scriptures Timothy knew from his infancy ( most likely before Christ was crucified ) is the Tanakh. Paul COULD NOT be referring to the Bible. Paul was referring to the Tanakh.

Not even the Tanakh, but St. Timothy would in infancy have known only the Targumim, or Aramaic glosses of it, which would have been understood before one learned the liturgical Hebrew, since in the year 0, Hebrew was a liturgical language like the Latin, Koine Greek, Church Slavonic or Jacobean English of today (one major error made by Vatican II was the presumption of an imperative for vernacular in the liturgy even though Vatican II never declared an all-vernacular liturgy; comprehensibility is enough, where admittedly Latin was losing ground, but what was indicated was the use of liturgical languages like Galgolithic had been used in the Slavic lands and the formal Jacobean English used by Anglicans and until recently by all Anglophone Eastern Orthodox; even more wrong was the choice of an intentional oversimplification of the text via a vis “and also with you” instead of “and with thy spirit” found in the ancient Greek and Latin liturgies.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-19T21:40:45-0600

essentialsaltes said:
McDonald's is losing its low-income customers. Economists call it a symptom of the stark wealth divide

Fervent · 2025-11-19T21:35:58-0600

Bradskii said:
There is? Only if it was: "kill some of those those who don't convert" and "kill anyone who doesn't convert". If you have a different religion and you don't convert, according to you then either sentence is applicable. Which is not correct.

I spoke of muslim beligerants, and I stand by my statement even with you attempting to mischaracterize it.

Bradskii said:
Apostasy is a different matter.

It's not just apostates, it's anyone they classify as kafiri...which is pagans, polytheists, atheists, and idolaters. Which is the marching orders from the end of Muhammad's life, which is why abrogation is an important concept to understand to understand Islamic jurisprudence. Apostasy is a different matter, which is why I wasn't talking about apostates.

Bradskii · 2025-11-19T21:31:10-0600

Fervent said:
...there is a difference between "kill those who don't convert" and "kill anyone who doesn't convert"...

There is? Only if it was: "kill some of those those who don't convert" and "kill anyone who doesn't convert". If you have a different religion and you don't convert, according to you then either sentence is applicable. Which is not correct.

Apostasy is a different matter.

prodromos · 2025-11-19T21:26:22-0600

d taylor said:
They are always asking you to produce a flat earth model.

So why haven't you been able to produce one. If the earth was actually flat it would have been the easiest thing to do.

d taylor said:
Well ask them to produce an actual physical 3d globe showing the land masses at 100% accurate size.

Why don't you ask? (admittedly you should be asking for a scale model, not 100%)

d taylor said:
Real Country Sizes Shown on Mercator Projection (Updated) - Engaging Data

d taylor said:
Cause this ain't it

View attachment 373375

Explain how it isn't, because it seems to match up pretty well with the red adjusted sizes posted above.

Fervent · 2025-11-19T21:13:08-0600

RDKirk said:
True free will requires the ability of one moral agent to make moral choices without coercion, constraints, or consequences imposed by another moral agent. Anything short of that is not "free will," but "volitional agency."

Free will doesn't require freedom from consequences, nor does it need to be absolute and without constraint. Coercion is also debateable, depending on whether it is resistable or irresistable. Free will just requires that the origin of the actions be in the person's will, rather than being something imposed upon them. So distinguishing between volitional agency and free will is an artificial one, as they amount to the same thing.

sovereigngrace · 2025-11-19T21:10:20-0600

Douggg said:
The text says olive tree, not Israeli tree.

The good olive tree is true Israel. We have been joined to them - the elect remnant according to grace. It is a spiritual Israeli tree. It is a believing tree. It is the household of faith from the beginning.

Why did you duck the other points?

sovereigngrace · 2025-11-19T21:08:14-0600

Fisherking said:
I have been doing this 40 years, I understand the difference between the holy spirts voice and Satan's lies. Anytime I see people who can not understand God's SIMPLE TIMING PATTERNS, I get leery. Not understanding these deeper truths leads people down wrong paths, and then they teach others these same errors. Yet these types refuse to listen to those of us who present the facts, its always the message board warriors or the Mormon/JW types that go down these roads.

No matter how its presented, even when it overcomes their own take on things, they jut forge ahead, eyes closed, these types can't see because they chose not to see. As per anything secret, its only secret TO YOU GUYS. God writes in ways the average joe CAN NOT SEE on purpose. Jesus stated he spoke in parables so the world hearing they would not hear and seeing would not see. So, why didn't Israel understand the Old Testament Bible that foretold Jesus' coming as a sacrifice? Because they did not WANT TO SEE IT !! Its in there, but in God's own way He forces us to dig these truths out, NOTICE, nowhere does it say on Dec. 25 (just an example we do not know what day he was born on) year 03 at 7 AM that Yeshua will be born. WHY? According to you guys that is how God must write things down, same excuse the Pharisees and Nicodemus gave. The Old Man in the temple saw baby Jesus and he knew but HOW? The wise men knew. The scripture says Yeshua will be born in Bethlehem, it says "My son" will come out of Egypt, how can both be true? Did God confused the Pharisees on purpose? No, that is how He writes, you call it "SECRET" but its not, you just refuse to hear these factoids because God refuses IT spell it out in a manner you think He should. Psstt, He wants you to dig it out, and you are too busy locked into your own understanding, just as the Pharisees were, MOST PEOPLE ARE, so Nicodemus asks how can a man be born again? Which he of course refused to believe.

Its not even hard, to those who will open their minds and investigate all of the pertinent facts. Revelation is hard, the Simple Pre Trib. Rapture is not, that is easy stuff, their can be no other timing, period, nothing else even remotely fits. But like the pharisees you expect God to say it in BIG BOLD WORDS, that is not going to happen, it did not happen with Jesus' birth which practically no one saw coming, and it will not happen with the rapture, but unlike them, we have direct access to the holy spirit, so like that Old Man, many people will understand it. He dug the info out as did the wise men, its here, why can't you dig it out my friend?

That is NOT CORRECT, the After THIS is speaking about the Church Age. The THINGS WHICH YOU HAVE SEEN is talking about the Supernatural Glory of Jesus' Eternal Godhead and Splendor. The THINGS WHCH ARE can only mean the Church Age. The Hereafter can only mean after he Church Age. You denying these facts will not change these facts brother. We know when the transition happens because we see it happen in real time in Rev. 4:1

AFTER THIS (Rev. 2 and 3 the Church Age where 7 = Divine Completion, not after Rev. 1 COME ON, this is why you can never see these things) A DOOR IS OPEN TO HEAVEN, does God have to knock us over the head to show us this is the rapture? COME UP HERE............Again, its astounding you can not see this which should be an easy thing to see..........AND I WILL SHOW YOU THINGS WHICH MUST BE "HEREAFTER" [The Church Age]. As I stated, you do not want to see it. The disciples understood by Nicodemus

Running late, All I have time for today

You have been badly misled.

Where is the rapture in Rev 4:1? Where is the mention of the Church in Rev 4:1? You cannot even show these. That because it is not there. You force it into the inspired text. You cannot even get to B, never mind Z. Pretrib is all man-made theories. There is no authentic divine substance to it.

d taylor · 2025-11-19T20:55:55-0600

Apple Sky said:
Isn't it obvious ?

-

They are always asking you to produce a flat earth model. Well ask them to produce an actual physical 3d globe showing the land masses at 100% accurate size.

Real Country Sizes Shown on Mercator Projection (Updated) - Engaging Data

Cause this ain't it

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Trump says he signed Epstein bill​

Trump says he signed Epstein bill​

McDonald's is losing its low-income customers. Economists call it a symptom of the stark wealth divide​

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Trump says he signed Epstein bill

Trump says he signed Epstein bill

McDonald's is losing its low-income customers. Economists call it a symptom of the stark wealth divide