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Fervent · 2025-11-22T10:38:00-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
I disagree because Jesus Christ refers to 'writings' which He would not refer to if they were open to error. Jesus Christ is perfect and without sin. It doesn't make sense that He would use writings as a way to show He was the Messiah if they could be open to interpretation or error.

If this is not what you're suggesting, then please correct me.

Otherwise, as I said, I think a grave error is being made and needs prayer for guidance and correction.

Why would his reference to "writings' imply an understanding that didn't develop until the 19th century?

rambot · 2025-11-22T10:36:33-0600

JosephZ said:
Standing up for American women who were raped at 14, trafficked and used by rich powerful men, should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States, whom I fought for,"

1. I am happy she's leaving politics cause she's too kooky.
But
2. The above comment is true..but
3. Come on mtg. Your lack of discernment when a whole political wing is telling you exactly what to expect, sets yourself up.

4. I've heard that she also quit just in time to receive her whole pension.

I laugh at the fact that republicans are turnning on her though. That REALLY exposes the misogynists in their ranks.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-22T10:36:14-0600

essentialsaltes said:
These insults and digs are coming from MAGA Republicans like Laura Loomer:

"Our country was built by white Europeans, actually. Not third-world invaders from India," Loomer said. "It's not racist against Indians to want the original MAGA policies I voted for."

OK, but is this racist against Indians?

Conservative commentator Steven Crowder told Piers Morgan on Thursday that Indian immigrants were unlikely to take construction workers’ jobs because they were too “physically feeble” to perform manual labor.

"you’re very unlikely to have Indian H1-Bs in your construction company because they’re a physically feeble people."

“As far as immigrant groups, Indian Americans are among my least favorite,” he continued. “Just as far as the culture, as far as assimilation, as far as the leering, as far as full-grown men holding hands. I think it’s weird and it’s not really my jam.”

Remarking that “half their civilization lives in actual poop” as a fart sound effect played, Crowder argued, “India knows they’re not the best and the brightest"

BCP1928 · 2025-11-22T10:31:51-0600

RDKirk said:
That prospect scares the living, freaking daylights out of me.

If that happens within the military rank and file, the US military will be cooked. It would take 30 years of a consistent political environment (fat chance of that) to put it back together.

That is a suicide option.

I have spoken before about how the federal government, especially the armed elements of the federal government, are mostly classically conservative, which means they are naturally resistant to extreme changes of government direction, whether to the left or to the right.

And that's a good thing. It's what Trump ran into in his first term, but what he intends to demolish in his second term.

But what you're talking about is a misunderstanding of that classically conservative nature. It's not something that can be politically weaponized safely, it's an age-old natural characteristic of bureaucracy...even Nebuchadnezzar had to deal with it.

Trying to politically weaponize the classically conservative bureacracy will be as disastrous to the Republic as trying to eliminate it.

That is such a disastrous strategy, based on such an erroneous understanding of how the system works, that practically causes me physical pain. That career staff members today are doing such things actually gives credence to the right-wing accusations that Obama did politicize the bureaucracy.

Everything you're saying here makes me more and more fearful that the Republic will not stand another decade.

What if that had happened during the 60s when Eisenhower and Johnson sent federal troops to enforce integration rulings?

The National Guard has a long history of shooting unarmed US citizens--protesters, strikers, rioters. None of the guardsmen themselves ever were convicted for it.

Always in His Presence · 2025-11-22T10:31:25-0600

Two politicians from opposite sides get together - even though they exchanged barbs - they come out of a meeting citing commonalities and are polite to each other.

The political atmosphere is so toxic, nothing good can be stated, just jabs and toxic barbs. From both sides - it is a sad statement on the political atmosphere.

Did Mandami cave into Trump?
Did Trump cave to platitudes from Mandami?

or perhaps they both came to an amiable conversation despite their difference.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-22T10:29:53-0600

University of Tennessee: University's interests outweigh First Amendment rights of assistant professor who derided Charlie Kirk

KNOXVILLE, Tenn — An assistant professor's social media post deriding conservative Charlie Kirk undermined the University of Tennessee's "mission" and put campus safety at risk, UTK lawyers contend in a court response to her federal lawsuit.

Shirinian, an assistant professor in cultural anthropology, is asking the federal court in Knoxville for emergency intervention so she can come back to work. UTK opposes that as indicated in its filing this week.

She's on leave with pay [as the school moves to terminate her]

stevevw · 2025-11-22T10:29:45-0600

BCP1928 said:
You should have stopped there.

That is silly. We can know what we know. We can know different ways of knowing. Which tells us that even though we don't fully know we know that there are many ways of knowing yet discovered. Saying I don't know actually means being open to all ways of knowing.

BCP1928 said:
Knowledge comes from trying things out and sharing the results with others.

Thats one form of knowledge. I gave you the example of 'Colorblind Mary'. She gained knowledge of reality without the shared scientfific knowledge. Because sharing that knowledge could not relay the knowledge of experiencing the color red. By experiencing this she gained new knowledge that sharing science could never give her.

So thats another realm of knowledge of reality that material sciences cannot give us. There may be others through direct experiences of nature and reality that science cannot share no matter what amount of shared knowledge.

Fervent · 2025-11-22T10:28:00-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
So what do you refer to then when suggesting that the bible is not infallible so that we may all refer to your infallible version?

That is what I am not getting from anyone. If the bible is in error, then what do you have to show that it is in error apart from thoughts and feelings?

I am not having a go at anyone. I'm genuinely baffled and trying to understand.

Do you not trust the leading of the Holy Spirit, and need a physical object to discern His voice? The Scriptures are profitable, authoritative, and the central normative element of a broader spiritual leading. Reifying the Scriptures is nothing but having a false sense of security that doesn't fit with either the history of Christianity nor with even the slightest critical inquiry. There is no need for inerrancy to maintain the centrality of the Bible, and maintaining it in the face of evidence to the contrary damages people's faith far more often than it edifies.

Clare73 · 2025-11-22T10:25:02-0600

Fisherking said:
It proves you are more than likely wrong on everything prophesy related, anyone who can not get the timing correct on simple things I would never heed on anything prophetic.

In all of Scripture there is not one verse that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
A pretribulation rapture is the notion of man, based solely in eisegesis (and never even heard of in the church until about 200 years ago).

sovereigngrace · 2025-11-22T10:24:04-0600

Fisherking said:
The Remnant is the people who were not Raptured, the 5 of 10 Virgins maybe who missed the wedding call, who then some truly get saved, and most become Martyrs, they are THE REMNANT in Rev. 12, its not The Church which is in heaven. You take obvious truths and misconstrue them.

You are twisting the text to support your error. Jesus said in Matthew 25:6, 10-13, “at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him … and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”

The solemn side of this parable is the awful plight of the five foolish virgins who had no oil in their lamps. Like the wicked that were left in Noah’s day, the religious will cry when it is too late: “Lord, Lord, open to us.” The only problem is it is too late. The solemn cry will come from the Master, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vv 11-12). This is exactly what Jesus says to the wicked at the final judgment. He isn't saying: 'welcome to a 7 yr trib' or 'welcome to the Premil millennium for another chance'. Sadly, they are damned and doomed for all eternity. That is what happens when Jesus Comes, the elect are rescued, those left behind are destroyed.

Jesus refers to this climactic day when all men are judged when He speaks in Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord ... in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Which “day” is Jesus talking about? His return. There are many people like that in this world. They have religion, but no real relationship. It says here: what they did in life was “in His name,” yet they were locked outside. They ask Jesus: “have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?” From this statement we can take it: they expected to be in heaven. However, Jesus will say to them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-22T10:24:02-0600

wing2000 said:
...and restricts entry from other countries.

The ban, which goes into effect on Monday, bars travel to the United States by citizens of Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.

Haiti qualified for the World Cup. But the Trump administration says its fans aren’t welcome.

The Caribbean nation joins Iran as World Cup competitors covered by travel ban.

Haiti, which this week qualified to compete in the men’s World Cup for the first time since 1974, is covered by a travel ban President Donald Trump signed in June. The presidential proclamation restricts people from 19 countries from entering the United States, while including exemptions for players and their families, coaches and support personnel to participate in major sporting events. But the State Department confirmed to POLITICO on Friday that this exception will not apply to Haitian fans or spectators hoping to attend.

fhansen · 2025-11-22T10:22:59-0600

RamiC said:
Yes, this is why I was told to tell a Christian that I was reading the Bible, so that they could pray for me as I did. That is to say, the first time I did read it.

I am not Roman Catholic, and I assume it is the Catholic Catechism that you are quoting....just saying I get the two parts you have posted in here.

Yes, those are teachings from the Catechism of the Catholic Curch.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-22T10:21:34-0600

essentialsaltes said:
That, of course, would be an even funnier outcome to this whole thing. Given the blue tilt in the few 2025 elections, something similar in 2026 could easily result in that happening. But for now, the courts have given us the less funny end to the saga.

Oh, Alito stepped in to restore the gerrymandered maps temporarily. Will SCOTUS stall long enough to let the new maps go into effect? Will we get the funnier outcome? We'll find out.

stevevw · 2025-11-22T10:21:33-0600

I am wondering if the culture is what is causing peoples heart to grow corrupt on the inside while trying to present a polished and virtious image on the outside.

I think the current culture is ideal for promoting external images and narratives about morals and how woke one is. Celebs virtue signalling and people on social media shaming those who may have said the wrong thing. Bringing condemnation and severe judgements and no forgiveness.

The media age is primed for creating pharisees of all persuasions lol.

Fervent · 2025-11-22T10:21:31-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
And so we move onto 2 Timothy 3:16.

I believe both scriptures.

So......?

2 Timothy 3:16 doesn't mean what you seem to believe it means, which is clear from the context since Paul's reliance on "God-breatthed" is its function in the life of faith. When we speak of the Word of God the Greek word we are referring to is logos, which is not present in 2 Timothy 3:16. The second issue is that pneumotheos is an out-breath not an in-breath so it is eisegetical to read it as inspiration.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-22T10:19:38-0600

‘We want to trust what we’ve heard’: Farmers remain unsettled on trade, even after China’s biggest U.S. soybean purchase in two years

This week, the U.S. Department of Agriculture announced the sale of 792,000 metric tons of soybeans to China. The move follows a meeting between President Donald Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the end of last month to ease trade tensions, with China committing to resume orders of U.S. soybeans and purchase 12 million tons of of the crop by the end of the year, as well as at least 25 million tons in each of the next three years.

Earlier this month, China bought 332,000 tons of U.S. soybeans, bringing the total so far in November to more than 1 million tons.

So as long as China buys 11 million tons in December, we'll be just fine!

“We are concerned about the volatility in the trade relationships,” Main continued. “It’s hard for people to make plans—whether that’s farmers planning for next year’s crop, or buyers that are planning to make big investments in equipment or facilities or what have you—where there’s lots of instability.”

In 2024, soybeans made up about 20% of U.S. “cash crop receipts,” worth about $46.8 billion, according to USDA data. While about a quarter of those soybeans went to China, retaliatory tariffs as a result of trade disputes with Beijing hobbled the U.S. soybean industry while South American countries gobbled up market share. Brazil and Argentina are replacing U.S. farmers, with Brazil making up about 71% of China’s soybean imports, according to the American Soybean Association. Three decades ago, Brazil accounted for just 2% of those imports.

StoneX chief commodities economist Arlan Suderman said in a note earlier this month that ... China’s soybean processors have “zero financial incentive” to buy more U.S. supply because of the more affordable options from South America.

Nithavela · 2025-11-22T10:18:21-0600

I would suggest Ukraine say no and trust in the Taco principle.

Hentenza · 2025-11-22T10:16:18-0600

RDKirk said:
But, you know, that's never been the general circumstance in the US.

Parents in the US, in general, have never been able to help their children or provide a "positive and productive environment" for learning. That's a fairy tale, gaslighting that the education industry has spun for decades...it's never been the general case in the US. Parents have been poor, parents have had to work, parents have always been strung out in the US. The best they did was to send their children to school and insist that their kids do what their teachers told them.

It is true that since about the 80s there has been a disconnect between parents and the education system. For sure, to "insist that their kids do what their teachers told them" has been a ball that parents have dropped.

As a black man who made the transition in the 60s from segregated Southern schools with deeply caring black faculties to integrated schools with sometimes uncaring (sometimes malicious) white faculties, I can see that as a factor. But the phenomenon wasn't happening only as a result of integration. Something larger was happening across the board so that today there is very little trust between parents and teachers regardless of race.

My memory as I was growing up in the sixties and seventies is one we’re my parents and the parents of my friends were quite involved in our educations but I grew up middle class so not indicative of how it was for the poor. As a parent I spent time with my kids helping them with their homework and reading to them every night. This in turn showed my kids the importance to be part of their kids education and they are involved just as we were. Consequently I started reading at around 4 years old, my kids started reading at about the same age, and so have my grandchildren.

My neighbor, whom I’ve known for about 20 years, taught 6th grade math in public school for 30 years. His school was in a mixed income area ranging from poor to high middle class. His major complain was that those of lower income would not prioritize their children’s education and complain the loudest that the teachers were not doing their jobs. Also their behavior would be much worse because of the lack of attention. It’s sad really.

These are just my observations and are in no way representative. I did find an interesting reading how children’s reading literacy has changed in the last 50 years and there has been advances but no where near enough. In my opinion, if the schools would spend time educating the parents on the importance of being part of their children’s education the outcomes might be better.

Reading Universe | Behind the Numbers: How Is the U.S. Doing in…

Dr. Reardon, a Prof. of Poverty and Inequality in Education at Stanford University, explains how the U.S. is doing in teacher our children how to read.

readinguniverse.org

Yarddog · 2025-11-22T10:15:37-0600

RDKirk said:
No, we don't always know what what is contrary to the laws of the United States, and certainly not the Constitution.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse in our courts. I agree that it is different with the Constitution and said that.

RDKirk said:
That's why these situations end up in court. And especially when they go to the Supreme Court.

Most cases that end up in court are people that knowingly broke a the law. SCOTUS is a bit different. A lot of that is people testing the Constitutionality of laws.

RDKirk said:
The president and his lawyers make their own decision of what is legal and Constitutional (or how to make it sound so in the necessary legalese) and give orders to the military. The Constitution gives the president that power, contradictable only by the Courts.

Sadly, Congress has given the President more authority than the Constitution gave him. The Constitution gives the President more authority in "emergencies" and Trump is testing just how far SCOTUS will let him go.

Sadly, we are having many career officers deciding to retire instead of obeying, what they believe, are illegal orders.

RDKirk said:
If Congress has passed explicit legislation on military matters, the Supreme Court will rule whether the president has stayed within the boundaries of an explicit law, but the Supreme Court largely stays out disputes with the Executive Branch on the basic Constitutionality of military actions. Not just with Trump...the Supreme Court has always been skittish about making rulings on the Constitutionality of Executive Branch military actions. They've even said as much in the past, essentially: "That area is not in our wheelhouse."

Agreed

RDKirk said:
The White House has construed a legal justification for those attacks.

Yes, but there are no laws which allow the killing of individuals without trying to ascertain intentions.

Even in wartime Iraq, troops tried to stop speeding vehicles, that could be suicide bombers, because they may be civilians. These speed boats, may or may not be drug runners, but blowing them up without attempting to stop them by other, is illegal. If not, please give me a law which allows it.

After WWII, war crime trials executed guards and soldiers which were following orders.

RDKirk said:
Congress, as a body, has not objected to Trump's justifications.

Sadly.

RDKirk said:
Nothing in our laws prohibits it, given the presidential justifications. As I just said, Congress has not objected and the Supreme Court will either back away from a decision (which they normally do) or agree with Trump's lawyers.

That's how we invaded Panama.

Sadly

Clare73 · 2025-11-22T10:11:20-0600

Brother Del said:
I think it would be very helpful if we defined our terms before beginning these threads and entering into debate.
By Israel, is one speaking of the tiny nation in the middle east?
The blood descendants of Jacob?
The Israel of God?
By Jew, do we mean those who are from the tribe of Judah?
Those who practice the Jewish faith?
And which one, Talmudic, Orthodox?
Can someone be a Jew who is also an atheist, how so?
If someone is an ethnic Jew, are they Sephardic, Ethiopian, Khazharian?
Are Khazarians even ethnically Jews?

Were the ten northern tribes Jewish? In what way.
Are they really lost?
Are all Israel Jews.

The ten northern tribes were not lost in the exile, for they are found in the rest of the Bible:

1) prophecies relating to the return from exile:
Jer 3:18, 31:27, 31 (where "Israel" is the northern kingdom of the ten tribes)
Eze 37:15-22 (where Ephraim is the northern kingdom of ten tribes, Isa 7:17);

2) return from exile (Exra 6:17);

3) NT (Ac 2:5, 26:7, Jas 1:1).

sovereigngrace · 2025-11-22T10:10:58-0600

Fisherking said:
It proves you are more than likely wrong on everything prophesy related, anyone who can not get the timing correct on simple things I would never heed on anything prophetic.

Why would it....you are in error.

Brilliant stuff, and like most who cant see what they should see, it is just a very lax effort brother. You can't rebut anything I say, so why not just give a quip I get it.

Yes, once again, your lack of understanding leads you down wrong paths. Israel are THE WHEAT, they are gathered at the Second Coming. It easy stuff when you do not let untruths sidetrack you.

That is not the church, read it carefully, its the REMNANT CHURCH
which means a small part separated from a larger part. We all know God will allow people to repent during the 70th week. Now, I can PROVE 100% the Remnant can not be Jewish, so why would God/John call them a Remnant?

So, Satan gets ANGRY that he can not get at The Woman (Israel) so he TURNS to go after THE REMNANT, well that means the 1/3 Israel who repents as Zech. 13:8-9 shows us CANNOT be this Remnant, and of course the 2/3 are not a Remnant anyway BUT the do not repent, they reject God and die, so they CANNOT have the Testimony of Jesus nor keep God's commands see why I get answers? I do not guess brother, you are merely guessing, and wrong on all these things.

The Remnant is the people who were not Raptured, the 5 of 10 Virgins maybe who missed the wedding call, who then some truly get saved, and most become Martyrs, they are THE REMNANT in Rev. 12, its not The Church which is in heaven. You take obvious truths and misconstrue them.

This means the Jewish Saints in general, not the CHURCH. You just need to let others teach prophecy, its very clear this is not your calling brother.

You cannot even show us the Church being raptured out before the tribulation anywhere in God's book. You have been badly misled for 40 years. It is time to change.

fhansen · 2025-11-22T10:07:55-0600

Another related teaching FWIW:

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures." (Luke 12:45).

Fervent · 2025-11-22T10:06:58-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
What Does 2 Timothy 3:16 Mean?

As I said, I think you are in grave error but I will pray for you. God bless.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't actually demonstrate the meaning of that verse nor does it interact with scholarship on the term pneumotheos in its historical context.

You can think I'm in grave error, but you're basing that on erroneous traditions that have developed recently and aren't defensible against even a moderate degree of skepticism.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-22T10:05:17-0600

stevevw said:
I don't know.

You should have stopped there.

stevevw said:
Well it depends. There is aquired knowledge which has already been discovered and passed on. But original paradigm breaking knowledge. Who knows. That comes from somewhere left field, outside the box of current thinking.

In some ways thats how science works. It assumes something completely contradictory sometimes or maybe often to move forward. In some ways its the observer who is creating the knowledge because of what they choose to look at and measure.

In some ways knowledge is mind and mind could be anything. Certainly not limited to the temporal.

Knowledge comes from trying things out and sharing the results with others.

Nithavela · 2025-11-22T10:04:51-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Networking AI's..!

Say I have $30,000 in the bank, and I ask my AI to help be start a business producing and marketing steering wheel covers. Now my AI asks me what I want them to look and feel like, and does every aspect of the business, from production to sales, by communicating with other AI systems to produce the best product, with a projected high yield profit for me. I literally do nothing, except imagine my product. It does all the work, and I make enough money to start my next project, whatever that is.

I now make money using my imagination.

Someone tried that with vending machines. The results were quite funny. The AI basically went crazy because all it was allowed to do was operate a vending machine business.

An AI chatbot ran a shop for a month. But things got weird very fast

Anthropic put an AI chatbot in charge of a shop. The results show why AI won’t be taking your job just yet.

www.euronews.com

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University of Tennessee: University's interests outweigh First Amendment rights of assistant professor who derided Charlie Kirk​

Haiti qualified for the World Cup. But the Trump administration says its fans aren’t welcome.​

‘We want to trust what we’ve heard’: Farmers remain unsettled on trade, even after China’s biggest U.S. soybean purchase in two years​

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University of Tennessee: University's interests outweigh First Amendment rights of assistant professor who derided Charlie Kirk

Haiti qualified for the World Cup. But the Trump administration says its fans aren’t welcome.

‘We want to trust what we’ve heard’: Farmers remain unsettled on trade, even after China’s biggest U.S. soybean purchase in two years