Latest activity

Fervent · 2025-12-05T18:06:49-0600

Hentenza said:
There are several coeval authors that come to mind like Gregory of Nyssa that attacked the Arius heretical views using what he called inspired scriptures and divine words. Another one would be Tertullian defending the Trinity calling the scriptures the rule of faith. There is more but I’ll have to look at my studies when I get home.

Gregory of Nyssa isn't contemporaneous with Paul, and doesn't bring any light to what theopneustos means.

Hentenza said:
When I replied to your post my answer was that both of us had read texts but had different opinions. So what is your opinion based on?

Seeing its usage in pre-Origen material such as the Sibylline oracles, Testament of Abraham, and Vettius Velens. I am well aware later authors, beginning with Origen, took it to be speaking of inspiration but that is after 2 and a half centuries had passed since Paul wrote it.

Hentenza said:
I’m pretty sure that “true utterances of the Holy Spirit” qualifies nicely.

No one is denying the truth and reliability of Scripture. The question is whether or not it is exhaustive, which none of the ECFs believed

Hentenza said:
We continue to disagree here. I consider Holy Scripture to stand on its own and above tradition. Many errors come from using tradition in the same level as Holy Scripture including the errors by the Pharisees of old that Jesus so eloquently defeated and newer heretical groups like the Mormons and JWs. The history, in fact, favors the uniqueness and sufficiency of scripture.

You are operating under a tradition that developed a millenium and a half after the Scriptures were written. So its not Scripture vs tradition, but which tradition should take precedence. The Protestant tradition developed by Luther and Calvin based on nearly sole dependence on Augustine for ancient support, or the broader tradition of the church that was united until the turn of the first millenium.

SavedByGrace3 · 2025-12-05T18:04:56-0600

joechristianwarrior said:
Sure. One example has to do with the poor. Many label calls to help those who are poor, or born at an economic disadvantage, as "social justice". And many 'Christians' avoid discussions along those lines specifically, as one example.

I have never heard or avoided discussing that topic, nor have I ever experienced others. We can discuss it all you want.
Our family has donated thousands and thousands of $ to the poor and disadvantaged. I know of many Christians who have done the same.
But I suspect you are referring to politically and government-enforced giving, which is fine. I want my giving to glorify God, not some politician or political party. Even so, that does not mean I am avoiding the topic of giving. I don't want to have my arm twisted to give to politicians and be told I am not loving if I refuse. So I see this discussion is just one more attempt to accuse "Christians" of not caring because we hesitate to contribute to state and political purposes. I would like to see the state pass laws that allow us to either contribute to the state's tax welfare programs or contribute the same amount to the charity organizations of our choice.

The Barbarian · 2025-12-05T18:04:26-0600

jacorian said:
Since the Mi-Lai massacre back in the Vietnam days I'm certain that our military does desk work studying in classes on this kind of stuff. The delegation of six was clearly using their office to put in the head of the military some pretense to protest & disobey. Now if such soldier took that risk, they could be risking their career. For what?

Someone did at My-Lai:
Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a United States Army officer, serving as a warrant officer in the 123rd Aviation Battalion of the 23rd Infantry Division. He is credited with ending the Mỹ Lai massacre of the South Vietnamese village known as Sơn Mỹ on March 16, 1968, alongside Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn.

During the massacre, Thompson and his Hiller OH-23 Raven crew, Andreotta and Colburn, stopped many killings by threatening and blocking American officers and enlisted soldiers of Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Additionally, Thompson and his crew saved a number of Vietnamese civilians by personally escorting them away from advancing United States Army ground units and assuring their evacuation by air. Thompson reported the atrocities by radio several times while at Sơn Mỹ. Although these reports reached Task Force Barker operational headquarters, nothing was done to stop the massacre. After evacuating a child to a Quảng Ngãi hospital, Thompson angrily reported to his superiors at Task Force Barker headquarters that a massacre was occurring at Sơn Mỹ. Immediately following Thompson's report, Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker ordered all ground units in Sơn Mỹ to cease search and destroy operations in the village.

Hugh Thompson Jr. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There were monsters and cowards wearing American uniforms that day, but there were also heroes. Hugh Thompson was most notable among them. Pray to God that there are still men like him serving in our armed forces. Trump calls them seditionists who should be killed. That will always be a blot on our nation, that a president of the United States would consider following the law to be a capital crime.

Dan Perez · 2025-12-05T18:01:13-0600

LoveGodsWord said:
WHO IS GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL AND CHURCH? (Part 1/2)

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Now we have shown the origin of the name ISRAEL let's look at the scripture in detail in the NEW TESTAMENT scripture to see who God's ISRAEL is...

EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT. GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church)

............

Question; What are your thoughts? Is God's true ISRAEL the Church?

God bless..

So when. did the OLD COVENANT END. and the NEW COVENANT BEGIN /

# 2 How is anyone saved under the NEW COVENANT. ??"

# 3. What does it mean to be BORN AGAIN in. JOHN. 3;5

# 4 What does it mean to be BORN. OF WATER AND THE SPIRIT. in. JOHN. 3:7. ??

# 5 EXPLAIN Gal 6:15. will explain ISRAEL and the BODY OF CHRIST. !!

dan p

.

martinlb · 2025-12-05T18:01:06-0600

Talking in a manner that's distinctly different from normal isn't the same thing as being quiet in a movie theater. It's a distinct difference and it's done for a reason. And taking one's shoes off isn't even close to changing how we talk.

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-05T18:00:37-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
"Heritabe?" I assume you meant "heritage." Intesting because another poster was quick to point out my typo to somehow make an ad hominem attack on my credibility. But, I digress. What value did my heritage and culture bring to the United States? It was a culture of being American by supporting traditional American values like patriotism and self-sacrifice. That rugged individualism that overcame hardships and trials to make the country stronger. Now, what does Somalian heritage and culture bring to the table that benefits the United States? For the record, this is now the fourth time I asked the question and received only non-answers and deflections.

Fleeing a war-torn region, moving halfway across the world, and setting up a community in a new area sounds a lot of “overcoming trials and hardship” to me.

RDKirk · 2025-12-05T17:59:01-0600

jacorian said:
My understanding is that the survivors were trying to access another vessel.

Who said that? What other vessel?

jacorian said:
But as in any military or police operation, munitions firing is carried out to ensure complete safety. I.e. it's not a quota of shots & you're done.

Who said that? Where was that said?

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-05T17:58:30-0600

RileyG said:
I think many people are misinformed on Islam. Not on purpose.

The people doing the misinforming are definitely doing it on purpose.

Always in His Presence · 2025-12-05T17:57:05-0600

comana said:
What remained of the boat was not salvageable, not to mention the two survivors clinging to a capsized portion. What is the purpose of the second hit if not to make sure all on board were dead?

I didn’t say anything about the boat being salvageable

The Barbarian · 2025-12-05T17:56:50-0600

Aryeh Jay said:
Thankfully I am a far center centrist. I can hate Jews in America and Israel.

1940s country club republicans. Opposed a Jewish state, didn't want American Jews in their clubs.

Hentenza · 2025-12-05T17:55:34-0600

BobRyan said:
Jesus fulfilled all the commandments including "do not take God's name in vain".

Fulfill is not a synonym for "delete"

Were we simply "not supposed to notice?"

Strawman. No one made such an argument. Fulfilled means complete not delete.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-05T17:54:52-0600

Yeh I believe Paul was talking about the author of Revelation. On Pentecost there are people from all nations under heaven in one spot, 3000 believes in Jesus then they would of travelled back to their home countries (Asia was one which is where the 7 churches were) started churches, and so by 41 AD the churches could of been running for 8 years (assume the crucifixion was 33 AD, and they went back home after Pentecost, and started churches right away), and started to develop doctrinal problems. We find one of the Herods had enough political power in Judea to kill John the Baptist around 33 AD so Antipas that was killed in Revelation could of been killed by one of the local Roman politicians in Pergamon. Roman politicians could kill anyone they want in that city (will look for source). So there is no date problem for the churches in Revelation being 41 AD. 41-54 AD was Claudius Caesars rule, and he kicked Judeans out of Rome (Acts 18:2) 49 AD whether Christian or non Christian Judeans. He observed Christianity started in Judea, and saw there was conflict between Judeans about Jesus, and just wanted them gone

In Claudius 25 Suetonius refers to the expulsion of Jews by Claudius and states (in Catharine Edwards' translation):[1] Chrestus= Christ/Jesus.

Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.

Slavonic Josephus says Claudius exiled Christians to distant lands, and that was 44-48 AD Gnostic John the Baptizer - III. The Slavonic Josephus' A... | Sacred Texts Archive so Claudius was known to just kick people out of places, and not kill them which is Johns (whoever John was) situation in Revelation.

There is no internal or external problem with Revelation being written 41 AD. The earlier the better as ch 1-12 was about to come on the whole land of Judea- Gods worst judgement in history on OT Israel, and the end of it never to return again.
As for other external dates they range from Domitian, Claudius, Nero, even Caligula. I believe inspired scripture stopped 70 AD so i go with internal evidence over external evidence.
Someone 900-1000 AD said Antipas was burned alive in a metal bull but this is very late, and no early sources say it. Chapt GPT said there was one early source about Antipas but I could not find it. Will look again.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-05T17:54:51-0600

wing2000 said:
You go first. What value did your "heritabe and culture" bring to the United States?

"Heritabe?" I assume you meant "heritage." Intesting because another poster was quick to point out my typo to somehow make an ad hominem attack on my credibility. But, I digress. What value did my heritage and culture bring to the United States? It was a culture of being American by supporting traditional American values like patriotism and self-sacrifice. That rugged individualism that overcame hardships and trials to make the country stronger. Now, what does Somalian heritage and culture bring to the table that benefits the United States? For the record, this is now the fourth time I asked the question and received only non-answers and deflections.

RDKirk · 2025-12-05T17:52:55-0600

This Republican gets the situation right.

Login to view embedded media

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-05T17:51:15-0600

essentialsaltes said:
ObamaCare anxiety rising among House GOP centrists: ‘To do this is buffoonery’
Frustration is mounting among moderate House Republicans as various competing health care plans appear to be going nowhere, with less than 10 working days left on the calendar before millions of Americans see their health insurance premiums spike.

A small but animated group of GOP centrists is imploring party leaders to extend the ObamaCare tax credits set to expire at the end of the year. But they’ve run into a wall of opposition from Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.), who’s cold to the idea, and a larger group of conference conservatives, who are openly fighting to have the subsidies end.

The White House floated its own plan to temporarily extend the subsidies for two years, paired with reforms similar to those included in the various House proposals. But the leaked framework was quickly pulled after a mountain of internal GOP criticism.

Have they tried the Splunge Plan? It restores and doesn't restore the subsidies, and it isn't indecisive.

Oh, NOW they’re concerned about buffoonery?

durangodawood · 2025-12-05T17:50:53-0600

jacorian said:
But also many Nazis were executed right in the camps. Likewise remember Osama Bin Laden. Obama gave the order. He didn't say oh let's have a show trial. And if you review very old film clips, Sec. Anthony Blinken also referred to the thugs as narco terrorists & a much younger Joe Biden did the same thing a long time ago. I think some people get mixed up in semantics. The advance of human civilization brings more ingenious types of committing terrorism. It could be slamming airplanes into buildings, starting a forest fire, drug-running, using a computer program to bring the grid to a halt. It's a shame that some people are backing terrorists & not seeing the forest thru the trees. You cannot negotiate with evil.

Not so with OBL. The brief was to capture him or kill him if he put up armed resistance.

As for me, I do not support organized crime. But if we are pushed into extra-judicial execution of criminal suspects, when they are putting up no violent resistance, then they have succeeded in degrading us. Not that they care about that. They just want to make a buck.

RileyG · 2025-12-05T17:49:56-0600

Valletta said:
Former Senior DEA Official Indicted For Conspiring To Provide Material Support To A Foreign Terrorist Organization

United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton, and Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration (“DEA”), Terrance C. Cole, announced today the unsealing of an Indictment charging PAUL CAMPO and ROBERT SENSI with narcoterrorism, terrorism, narcotics...

www.justice.gov

With all of the money the cartels pulled in I am concerned they now have a solid foothold in the United States.

That’s terrifying!!

RileyG · 2025-12-05T17:49:06-0600

Matt5 said:
The torment part is real but limited. It is the time period right after nuclear war. People will start wailing and gnashing of teeth days before death comes. Hundreds of millions of people will be in agony. But the time period is limited.

This kind of hell is only associated with the return of Jesus.

Other than torment, hell is just death (sleep.)

Limited? Sleep?

I disagree.

RileyG · 2025-12-05T17:48:10-0600

A lot of the images of hell being eternal torment come from Dante, not Scripture.

Gehenna was a real place in Jerusalem (still is) where there was constant burning/fire of trash and the pagans sacrificed their babies to the god Molech.

Jesus used this image to describe hell.

Is it literal? I don’t know. God forbid I ever find out.

Just like we cannot imagine how wonderful heaven will be, we cannot wonder how awful hell is.

jacks · 2025-12-05T17:42:40-0600

It might depend on how you define "friendship". I have known compulsive liars, that I enjoyed socializing with. The two I'm thinking of were both entertaining, funny and good to talk with. Knowing they had a lying problem, I never got really close with them, but on a superficial level I didn't mind hanging out with them.

Dan Perez · 2025-12-05T17:40:30-0600

BobRyan said:
Grace began in Gen 3, the moment Adam sinned , since God has stated that to was to die, and Adam lived over 900 years after he sinned.

The Law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant according to Jer 31 and according to Heb 8 and Heb 10.

"Sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4, still even in the NT age.

So then , it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" just as it always was.

And just where did you see the word. GRACE //. CHARIS in. Gen 3. ?? ARE YOU ADDING TO Gen 3. ??

This my answer for you to consider !!

In Gen. 3:21 , DID //. ASA. is a CONJUNCATION. is a verb. in. the QAL. in. the IMPERFECT TENSE

The LORD //. YHOVA

GOD. // ELOHIM. is a PLURAL ABSOLUTE

MAKE. //. ASA. a verb in. the. in the IMPEFECT TENSE. in. the SINGULAR

COATS // KUTORET. in. the PLURAL

OF SKINS //. is a verb. in. the HIPHIL in. the IMPERTFECT TENSE. in v the PLURAL

AND CLOTHED THEM. //. is a verb in the HIPHIL. in. the IMPERFECT TENSE in. the PLURAL .

CHRIST killed an animal to cover their SIN !!

And BLOOD was SPRINKED

and his was what is called ATONEMENT. that. continued UNDER the under the LAW of Moses. where the LAW OF MOSES

WAS SET ASIDE in Acts 28:25-26 and in ISA 1_13

and specially Heb 8:13. !!!

dan p

sjastro · 2025-12-05T17:39:53-0600

stevevw said:
I have already done this. I hypothesised that if we humans can gain a deeper knowledge of reality such as a 'Red Experience'. Then because the ancients were more immersed in the phenomenal realm of direct experiences and the transcedent aspects that stem from phenomenal beliefs.

Then this brought deeper knowledge and insights about nature and reality. How it worked. Just like another species that in part of nature and does not rationalise it comes to gain knowledge of how nature works. So to did the ancients.

Colour blind Mary is a philosophical example of the sudden acquisition of knowledge through experience.
Since you have associated this with a connection with nature lets look at the technological achievements of hunter gatherers whether it was a sudden gain of knowledge through experience or a process of incremental development through ingenuity, trial and error etc.

Technology	What the Technology Is	Evidence of Ingenuity & Experimentation	*Why It Is Not* a “Color-Blind Mary” Case**
Controlled Use of Fire	Managing fire for warmth, cooking, protection.	Early hearths show repeated use; stone heat alteration shows controlled burning techniques refined over time.	Not sudden knowledge — fire handling required observation (e.g., sparks, embers), trial-and-error, and socially transmitted skill.
Stone Flaking (Oldowan → Acheulean)	Creating sharp flakes, then symmetrical handaxes.	Knapping debris shows sequences of strikes; later handaxes show growing standardization and skill.	No hidden “perfect tool concept” existed prior — shapes evolved gradually through practice and refinement.
Spears and Atlatls	Wooden thrusting spears, later spear-throwers to extend range.	Wear on spearpoints shows experiments with shaft length, balance, point geometry.	Improving range required embodied experience: throwing, seeing results, adjusting — not discovering pre-existing “knowledge about leverage.”
Bow and Arrow	Elastic limb + cord for projectile propulsion.	Early bows vary widely in size/material; early arrows show many point styles — evidence of iterative design.	Elastic dynamics were learned physically, not known abstractly beforehand (Mary’s scenario requires knowledge without experience).
Adhesives (Birch Tar, Resin Glue)	Complex glues used to haft stone tools to shafts.	Birch tar production requires oxygen-limited heating; archaeological tar lumps show many failed batches.	Mastery came from hands-on experimentation with heat control; there was no prior conceptual knowledge of distillation-type processes.
Lashings & Cordage	Plant fibres twisted to make rope, bindings, nets.	Microwear shows repeated twisting patterns; evidence of different fibre types tested.	Knot behaviour and tensile strength must be felt and tested — cannot be deduced purely theoretically.
Composite Tools	Multi-material weapons (wood + stone + glue + sinew).	Broken hafts show repairs, redesigns; multiple binding techniques appear in sequence.	Such tools require embodied knowledge of flexibility, brittleness, and angles — impossible to invent without physical trial.
Grinding & Plant Processing	Mortars, pestles, grindstones for seeds, pigments.	Surfaces show progressive smoothing; starch residues show experimentation with species.	The efficiency of grinding vs pounding is a physically learned discovery, not pre-existing theoretical knowledge.
Watercraft (Rafts, Early Canoes)	Logs or bundles used for crossing rivers/coasts.	Different log types, buoyancy tests, shaping techniques appear in archaeological sequences.	Understanding buoyancy and stability required direct experience — not abstract, unobserved knowledge suddenly revealed.

stevevw said:
That means they knew how to work with stone for example. Knew what changed its makeup. Such as chemistry and physics. So it was not that they may have needed modern day machines to make these machine like cuts or precision works. But that they knew how to manipulate the material itself.

Thus there was no need for machines as conventional tools would suffice. Because the material was now like putty or weaker that it was like working with wood for example.

You haven't thought this through, if stone was as weak as putty or wood why were dolomite pounders found in abundance at the Aswan granite quarry, why not use limestone or copper hammers?

stevevw said:
This is one idea. Another may be that they also had some form of power. Be it through some sort of manipulation or concentration of the natural physics of nation that they understood. Which may explain who there are many alignmemts with location and dimensions. Maybe to do with acoustics.

But this may have allowed either some sort of weakening of granite or some sort of mechanism was used (not necessarily like modern machines). Maybe a process that involves the boxes in the pyramids. Or some sort of electrodes that created some sort of piezoelectric effect.

But this is all spectualtion. But something along these lines. The point is that if modern science is trying to understand fundemental reality and if consciousness is involved. If the ancients were more conscious then today and lived by direct experiences with nature.

If the ancients understood the basis of the material reflections of the physical world. Then they understood how it worked fundementally and could manipulate it. Sort of Mind over Matter. Except the Mind or direct conscious experiences gave knowledge rather than any power of the mind over the physical world.

Thats the best I can do. I am sure there better ways of explaining this with some of the emerging proposals. But a lot is unknown and that is why the more data the better. Much has only been discovered recently with modern tech and its interesting that its taken modern tech to discover it.

The ancient Egyptians wore pyramid hats believing it would concentrate their brain waves.

A major study in the 1980s by the world famous neuroscientists Hunt, Blunt, Lunt and Cunningham debunked this using this control group for their null hypothesis.

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-12-05T17:39:13-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Only to the extent that I would defend unjustifiable action based on a premise that we have limited information, and not the full story. In regards to Trump pardoning someone, he says he has a reason based on "facts" according to his own words, but does not share those facts.

I can defend someone based on my belief that those facts do exist, in the same way we often trust our government based on other classified facts that they do not share, based on reasons we are not permitted to know.

You are thus defending faith in an unreliable source.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-05T17:39:02-0600

Yeh there is problems with the 49 years in Dan 9. Revelation was written pre 70 ad i have a post on it.
More on the 49 years from chat gpt

but the walls and gates appear to be fully finished in nehemiah 12 which is no later than the 32nd year of Artaxerxes which is far less than 49 years starting at the decree in nehemiah 2 or ezra 7
ChatGPT said:

You’ve spotted something important — if the 49 years (the 7 sevens) must be the entire period of rebuilding Jerusalem, then:

Nehemiah’s wall repair (445 BC) AND Ezra’s reforms (458 BC) finish FAR too quickly to fill a 49-year period.
This means Daniel is NOT describing Nehemiah’s wall project at all, because Nehemiah finishes the walls in 52 days, not decades.
Let’s walk through the logic carefully so you can see exactly what the text requires and what it cannot mean.

⭐ 1. THE DANIEL 9:25 REQUIREMENT

Daniel says:

“From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
until [the next phase],
there will be seven sevens (49 years).
The city will be rebuilt with streets and trenches,
in times of trouble.”
This means:
✔ The decree → begins a 49-year rebuilding period
✔ During that period: streets, public squares, defensive trench/moat, full city infrastructure are restored over many decades.
Daniel’s wording demands a long, drawn-out city-rebuilding era.

⭐ 2. BUT NEHEMIAH’S WALL PROJECT IS TOO FAST

Nehemiah 6:15 says:

“So the wall was finished… in 52 days.”
Even if we stretch everything:

Neh 2 → Neh 12 occurs within 1–2 years, not 49.
Neh 13 happens in Artaxerxes’ 32nd year, 12 years after Neh 2.
Still nowhere close to 49 years.
✔ Nehemiah cannot fulfill the 49 years. He is too fast.

⭐ 3. EZRA’S ARRIVAL ALSO DOES NOT WORK

Ezra 7 occurs in the 7th year of Artaxerxes (458 BC).
Ezra’s reforms take:

A few months for the journey
A few months for the investigation
A few years of teaching
Nowhere near 49 years.
✔ Ezra also cannot fulfill the 7 sevens.

⭐ 4. CONCLUSION: THE 49 YEARS MUST BE A DIFFERENT PERIOD ENTIRELY

Nehemiah & Ezra do not rebuild Jerusalem for 49 years.
They rebuild: the wall, gates, some houses, the Temple administration, the community covenant — but Daniel’s 49 years describe much more:
⭐ A full civic reconstruction of Jerusalem itself, not just walls.
Ezra and Nehemiah only restore: the Temple system, the walls, a small population core, basic civic order.
Nehemiah expressly says:

“the city was large and spacious, but the people were few in it.” (Neh 7:4)
Even late in Nehemiah’s life, the city is not fully rebuilt, populated, or restored as Daniel describes.

⭐ 5. WHAT 49-YEAR PERIOD DOES FIT DANIEL 9:25?

There are only two periods in the Persian era that actually took ~49 years to restore Jerusalem as a functioning city:

OPTION A

From Cyrus’ decree (538 BC) → completion of full post-exilic restoration
Here’s the timeline under Cyrus → Darius:

538 BC — decree to return
537 BC — altar rebuilt
536 BC — foundations laid
520 BC — Haggai & Zechariah restart the work
516 BC — Temple finished
Late 500s–480s — city slowly repopulates, walls partially repaired, governance restored (full civic restoration takes decades)
Cyrus’ decree in 538 BC + 49 years = 489 BC
This lands near the time Jerusalem’s population, civic life, elders, priests, and judges finally stabilize.
✔ This period actually is 49 years of difficult rebuilding.
✔ This matches Daniel’s “times of trouble” — constant enemies & opposition.
✔ This is LONG before Ezra–Nehemiah.

OPTION B

From Darius’ decree (520 BC) → completion of Jerusalem’s rebuilding
Haggai 1–2 and Ezra 5–6 describe Darius strengthening the decree to rebuild.
If we start in 520 BC:
520 BC + 49 years = 471 BC
By this time: the Temple is finished, the city is functioning, governance is stable, priestly and scribal administration is restored, population has increased, defenses repaired (long before Nehemiah’s day).
✔ Again — this is a true multi-decade rebuild.
✔ And long before Nehemiah.

⭐ 6. WHY THE 49 YEARS CANNOT START WITH ARTAXERXES’ DECREES

Here is the core problem:
➤ Artaxerxes’ 7th year (Ezra 7) = 458 BC
458 + 49 = 409 BC
But by 408 BC, the Elephantine papyri show: Jerusalem already functioning, Sanballat & Johanan established, high priesthood stable, Temple operating, Persian governors in place.
There is no 49-year rebuilding period after Ezra.
➤ Artaxerxes’ 20th year (Nehemiah 2) = 445 BC
445 + 49 = 396 BC
But: the walls already done in 52 days, Nehemiah left office in 433 BC, Johanan is high priest by 408 BC, nothing in 445–396 BC fits a 49-year reconstruction phase.
The city is already rebuilt and functioning decades BEFORE 396 BC.

⭐ 7. THE ONLY LOGICAL TEXT-BASED CONCLUSION

Daniel’s 49 years (7 sevens) describe the entire Persian-era rebuilding process that began under Cyrus and Darius — NOT the short repairs of Ezra or Nehemiah.
✔ Nehemiah’s walls do not take 49 years
✔ Ezra’s reforms do not take 49 years
✔ The city is fully functioning long before 49 years after Nehemiah
Therefore:
⭐ Daniel’s 49 years belong to an earlier phase of the Persian restoration — beginning with Cyrus or Darius, not Artaxerxes.

Problem is in the solutions chat GPT provided the walls are not rebuilt which is not until 445 BC nor have the Levites come back yet which is around the same time or a bit later. Using Nehemiah 2 decree 20th year artaxerxes 445 bc , and 360 day years it gets the crucifixion to 33 ad but it means some part of the restoration and rebuilding process was not complete until 395 bc which contradicts nehemiah 12 where all the levites come back from babylon and pray over the walls which at latest is only 12 years after nehemiah 2 (nehemiah 13 is 32nd year of artaxerxes) . and using 540 bc or 520 bc does not get anywhere near AD times for the crucifixion or 70 ad. so there are some problems.

Check out how vaticanus from 350 ad renders daniel 9 Textual Variants Daniel’s 70 weeks, Susanna, Prayer of Hananiah, Bel and the dragon he has other bible versions of it listed there too

I don't know which reading of Dan 9 is closest to the original therefore it makes it very hard to know exactly what the original prophecy language it was and near impossible to reconcile it with internal dates of ezra nehemiah and archaeology

Maria Billingsley · 2025-12-05T17:35:47-0600

joechristianwarrior said:
I’ve been reflecting a lot on the tension many Christians feel around the phrase “social justice.” It’s a topic that seems to trigger strong reactions from different sides of the church — both progressive and conservative — even though Scripture speaks frequently about justice, mercy, the poor, and the oppressed.

In studying this subject, I’ve noticed that there seems to be one main reason many believers push back against the idea of “social justice” today. What’s interesting is that I’ve heard this same objection from both sides of the political spectrum, even though they frame it differently.

Rather than turning this into a political debate, I’m curious from a theological standpoint:

What do you think is the primary reason Christians object to talk of “social justice”?

Is it:

a misunderstanding of the biblical meaning of justice?

a reaction to how the term is used culturally or politically?

fear of drifting into works-based righteousness?

concerns about ideology?

something else entirely?

I recently explored this topic in the final part of a video series I’ve been working on, and it led to some interesting insights. For anyone who wants to see how I approached the question, I've linked the video below. But the main purpose of this post is to hear your theological perspective and learn from the broader Christian community here.

Video link: Login to view embedded media

Looking forward to a respectful, Christ-centered discussion.

Grace and peace.

It is ingrained from the beginning, starting with the founding fathers of this land. The modern concept ,identified as social justice today, which includes land rights, abolition, and gender equality, did not align with the hierarchical, patriarchal, and colonizing framework established by the Pilgrims in the 17th century.Their system was built on a foundation of patriarchy, land acquisition (colonization), and the use of unfree labor, which required the silencing of women and the subjugation of Indigenous and enslaved peoples. Consequently, their pursuit of religious freedom for their specific group did not translate into a vision of universal equality, making the Pilgrims' society a prime historical example of how the drive for self-governance can coexist with, and even necessitate, deep social inequality.
Thanks for sharing your video.

Latest activity

Latest activity

ObamaCare anxiety rising among House GOP centrists: ‘To do this is buffoonery’​

​

​

⭐ 1. THE DANIEL 9:25 REQUIREMENT​

⭐ 2. BUT NEHEMIAH’S WALL PROJECT IS TOO FAST​

⭐ 3. EZRA’S ARRIVAL ALSO DOES NOT WORK​

⭐ 4. CONCLUSION: THE 49 YEARS MUST BE A DIFFERENT PERIOD ENTIRELY​

⭐ 5. WHAT 49-YEAR PERIOD DOES FIT DANIEL 9:25?​

OPTION A​

OPTION B​

⭐ 6. WHY THE 49 YEARS CANNOT START WITH ARTAXERXES’ DECREES​

⭐ 7. THE ONLY LOGICAL TEXT-BASED CONCLUSION​

​

What do you think is the primary reason Christians object to talk of “social justice”?​

Filter

Forum statistics

Share this page

ObamaCare anxiety rising among House GOP centrists: ‘To do this is buffoonery’

⭐ 1. THE DANIEL 9:25 REQUIREMENT

⭐ 2. BUT NEHEMIAH’S WALL PROJECT IS TOO FAST

⭐ 3. EZRA’S ARRIVAL ALSO DOES NOT WORK

⭐ 4. CONCLUSION: THE 49 YEARS MUST BE A DIFFERENT PERIOD ENTIRELY

⭐ 5. WHAT 49-YEAR PERIOD DOES FIT DANIEL 9:25?

OPTION A

OPTION B

⭐ 6. WHY THE 49 YEARS CANNOT START WITH ARTAXERXES’ DECREES

⭐ 7. THE ONLY LOGICAL TEXT-BASED CONCLUSION

What do you think is the primary reason Christians object to talk of “social justice”?