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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

SNAP benefits ( gentally)

So there's a stand for how far every poor person should live from a supermarket? Who came up with this standard that says a supermarket should be from a poor person?

The USDA says a Supermarket should be no further from poor people than a mile? He exactly is rhe USDA going to enforce this standard? Its a dumb standard. 50% of Americans live at least 2 miles from a grocery store.
So? Whats so special about them? Again, are they supposed to get a supermarket on every block? How is that supposed to be enforced?
Umm... no. I like everyone had to make my own time and space. We have a tendency to do that if we find it important.
Pretty much everyone does. You aren't going to make a claim using the extreme to try and disprove the rule are you?

You know after these conversations im even more convinced that we live in a massively entitled society.
Poor people used to buy their groceries from little Mom and Pop stores in their communities. They paid higher prices but the stores were close by and most gave them credit and let them have charge accounts.
Walmart put most of those types of stores out of business about 30 years ago . There were a lot of items like OTC medicine and health and beauty aids that Walmart sold below cost to attract shoppers. Now they charge what they want.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

““Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
The Torah is forever. We have been over this.
Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law.
He called us to follow him.

Ask any practicing Jew if he fulfills the law; and he will answer in the affirmative.

All of the Torah has not been fulfilled; but we are to fulfill our part, in our time.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

The Torah was not finished when Yahshua was killed. It was dogma (doctrine of men) that was nailed to the stake.

The Torah is forever. Yah said it. Yahshua repeated it.

I will trust in them over the doctrine of men.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Sinning willfully would amount to rejection of the Holy Spirit since it is He who convicts not the law.
(CLV) Jn 16:7
"But I am telling you the truth. It is |expedient for you that I may be coming away, for if I should not be coming away, the consoler will not be coming to you. Now if I should be gone, I will |send him to you.

(CLV) Jn 16:8
And, coming, that will be exposing the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judging:

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?



Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
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Why do people hate ICE...

I wondered when this one would show up. The woman was fleeing from a traffic stop and ran into a daycare. ICE did not target a school

Judge temporarily bars DHS from removing day care worker detained in Chicago

Santillana Galeano applied for either asylum or withholding of removal and was granted a work permit that is valid through Nov. 12, 2029, her lawyers said.

Her attorneys are asking Judge Daniel to order the government to grant her a bond hearing. They claim that DHS arrested her without a warrant in violation of a consent decree that requires agents to have one when arresting certain individuals.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Matthew 5:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
You missed verse 17.

““Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19‬:‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jesus fulfilled (completed) the law.


19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
These commandments turned into two commandments because it exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

2 Kings 17:37
Complete Jewish Bible
37 You are to observe forever the laws, rulings, Torah and mitzvah which he wrote for you. You are not to fear other gods,


Deuteronomy 29:29 CJB
29 "Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.
All pertaining Israel not the church. Even the verses you posted explicitly state that it was addressing Israel. The church is not Israel.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

You may believe that rape improves fitness, but evolution obviously disagrees with you.
It's not what I believe, it's been demonstrated that species that have a certain percentage of rapists perservere. It's a reproductive strategy that is highly successful
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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

The OT messiah didn't necessarily mean faith in specifically Christ's death and resurrection. Jesus predicted three times to his disciples his death and resurrection and yet they didn't believe.
So the question is asked again: Trusting in Christ's death and resurrection is required by all for eternal life. Does this mean all persons who died before Christ's death and resurrection are thrown in the lake of fire?
Can you give a scriptural reference that says we must believe in Jesus’ death and resurrection in order to be saved? We are saved by faith through grace that He is the Son of God who has come to save us from our sins (which he accomplishes by His death and resurrection) but it isn’t the process that saves us, it is Christ.

Lots of people are saved without having any theological knowledge, because they put their faith in Christ.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

You can’t break what no longer applies. The sabbath is not required of the Christian
Matthew 5:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

2 Kings 17:37
Complete Jewish Bible
37 You are to observe forever the laws, rulings, Torah and mitzvah which he wrote for you. You are not to fear other gods,


Deuteronomy 29:29 CJB
29 "Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.
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SNAP benefits ( gentally)

For every citizen? No. But cross referenced with poverty level, yes - that's what we've been discussing. Keep up.
So there's a stand for how far every poor person should live from a supermarket? Who came up with this standard that says a supermarket should be from a poor person?

The USDA says a Supermarket should be no further from poor people than a mile? He exactly is rhe USDA going to enforce this standard? Its a dumb standard. 50% of Americans live at least 2 miles from a grocery store.
Okay? We're talking about people below the poverty line though.
So? Whats so special about them? Again, are they supposed to get a supermarket on every block? How is that supposed to be enforced?
Apparently the time and space to exercise
Umm... no. I like everyone had to make my own time and space. We have a tendency to do that if we find it important.
reliable transportation, a grocery store, and cooking implements. Because you wouldn't be claiming that everyone has those things if you didn't.
Pretty much everyone does. You aren't going to make a claim using the extreme to try and disprove the rule are you?

You know after these conversations im even more convinced that we live in a massively entitled society.
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Be Instructed Judah

The rejoining of Judah; just a remnant, and the Christian Israelites, Galatians 6:14-16, will happen soon after the Sixth Seal world changer
Christians were never the northern kingdom. The northern kingdom went into Assyrian captivity, because they had gotten into idol worship.

Do an online search for a map of divided Israel - made up of the northern kingdom and southern kingdom. Modern day Israel covers the land mass of both the northern kingdom and southern kingdom. The reuniting into one nation again has been fulfilled.

Ezekiel 37:15-28 proves your theory of a solar flare wipeout of current Israel and a replacement nation of Christians called Beulah in error.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

Consider me warned.
ok
Fortunately evolution doesn't concern itself with how well we justify something. It couldn't care less. Ask Hitler how that eugenics thing worked out.
Sure, but rape imiproves fitness. Is rape moral?
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The Schumer Shutdown

Schumer offers plan to end government shutdown:
  • Proposes that Democrats would vote to reopen the government if the funding measure (a continuing resolution or appropriations bill) included a one-year extension of the tax credits under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that help lower insurance premiums.
  • Proposes the creation of a bipartisan committee to negotiate longer-term healthcare reform (particularly on the ACA subsidies) after the government re-opens—thus splitting the matters into (a) re-open government now and (b) deal with broader policy later.
  • Frames the one-year extension not as a policy change but as extending current law for a year (thus his term “just say yes”) to give working families certainty.
  • Schumer argues this approach respects the Republican position that healthcare policy negotiations should not be entangled in re-opening. (He tried to structure the proposal so re-opening and extension happen simultaneously, then policy talk follows.)
Of course. Extend tax credits to avoid impact on mid-terms.

The enhanced ACA subsidies have substantially lowered premiums for middle-income earners and eliminated the “subsidy cliff.” If these lapse in 2025, roughly 14 million people could see premium hikes averaging hundreds of dollars per month. That would dominate headlines in 2026—right when Democrats are defending a difficult Senate map. By proposing the one-year extension now, Schumer casts Democrats as protecting families’ pocketbooks while Republicans “hold the government hostage”—an election-year framing advantage.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

That's not true. I responded to that post in post 250.

Let's not make this personal.
Not making anything personal. This is just a conversation between professed Christians.

In your post 250 you did not address the verses that I posted but simply added your own. In fact you only quoted one sentence of my posts.
In that same book John says that if you do inadvertently sin, to get right back on the path.

How would you apply that verse to this verse, regarding willfully breaking the Sabbath?:
You can’t break what no longer applies. The sabbath is not required of the Christian. Our rest is in Jesus.
(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.
“But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭39‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Sinning willfully would amount to rejection of the Holy Spirit since it is He who convicts not the law.
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SNAP benefits ( gentally)

Oh, there's a standard for how close a supermarket should've for every citizen in the city? Who created rhis standard? I know a LOT of Middle income people who aren't a mile from a grocery store.
Seems the USDA is ahead of you here - they apparently call them "low access" areas now. Personally, I don't care what you call them - I call them food deserts because that's the terminology I'm familiar with, not out of any desire to influence anyone.

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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Agreed, most of the people in the mob were Jews. Most of the followers of Jesus were Jews. Most of the indifferent bystanders were Jews. Most of the people in all the gospel stories were Jews (with the notable exception of the Romans, who did the actual crucifying).

My only objection here is to the claim that "the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified". I don't see that supported in the gospel stories.
The Jewish religious leaders were responsible for bringing Christ to the Romans and accusing Him of capital crimes. The mob was given the choice of who to execute and they chose Jesus. This had the same effect as Israel in general rejecting the messiah. Jesus grieving and lamentation for Jerusalem in Matt. 23 is a case in point.
.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

I have and you ignored it. Post 246
That's not true. I responded to that post in post 250.

Let's not make this personal.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
In that same book John says that if we do inadvertently sin, to get right back on the path.

How would you apply that verse to this verse, regarding willfully breaking the Sabbath?:


(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.
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Be Instructed Judah

Modern day Israel covers the land mass of the former southern kingdom and the former northern kingdom.

When do you think Ezekiel 37:15-28, the reuniting of the former two nations back into one nation will be fulfilled ?
The Jewish State of Israel is just a small fraction of the Holy Land, all that area given to Abraham and his descendants. Genesis 15:18
Gods faithful peoples have never yet occupied all of the Holy Land. They will - before Jesus Returns, He will save them by winning the battle of Armageddon. Revelation 19:11-21

The rejoining of Judah; just a remnant, and the Christian Israelites, Galatians 6:14-16, will happen soon after the Sixth Seal world changer.
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SNAP benefits ( gentally)

Michelle Obama tried giving these hungry children healthy food. They just threw it in the trash.
It takes time to change habits. And I recall the vitriol and hatred spewed at her by conservatives (on this very forum, no less) for daring to dictate what children should be eating. Funny how that changes once it's conservatives who want to tell people what to eat.
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The Schumer Shutdown

Trump could end the shutdown tomorrow. Such poor leadership is tragic.
Yes, he could succumb to blackmail by a minority, have the bill changed and force the House and Senate to pass the new bill.

Schumer could simply vote to continue the government. Democrats want to use blackmail to change legislation.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

It wasn’t called Palestine until Hadrian renamed the province of Judea to Syria Palestinia in 135 CE after the Bar Kockba revolt, an act intended to sever Jewish ties to the land. Those that yelled for Jesus to be crucified were Jews.

Agreed, most of the people in the mob were Jews. Most of the followers of Jesus were Jews. Most of the indifferent bystanders were Jews. Most of the people in all the gospel stories were Jews (with the notable exception of the Romans, who did the actual crucifying).

My only objection here is to the claim that "the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified". I don't see that supported in the gospel stories.
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Women in Ministry

Jesus’ Treatment of Women

As far as I know, from what I read in the New Testament, Jesus always treated women with high honor and respect. He never talked down to a woman or treated any woman as though she was less valuable than a man, with maybe one exception.

As recorded in Matthew 15:21-28, it appears that Jesus’ seemingly harsh words to a Gentile woman were not meant in unkindness, but that they were meant to test her faith, and to lead her to stand up for what she believed, too. And then he honored her for her faith, which he said was “great faith.”

And when other men took advantage of women, for evil purposes, or when they mocked or criticized them, Jesus stood up for the women, and he protected them. And he cared about their needs, and he ministered to them, and he honored their faith. And, if he did rebuke them, he was loving and gentle in his rebuke. He was always tender with them, compassionate and loving. And he used women to share the gospel with men, too.

[John 8:1-11; Luke 7:36-50; Matthew 26:6-13; Mark 5:25-34; Luke 10:38-42; John 2:1-11; John 4:1-42; John 20:11-18.]

In fact, In Luke 7 we read that a Pharisee invited Jesus to eat with him at his house. When a woman who had a reputation heard he was there, she came there and she anointed his feet with ointment, and wet them with her tears, and wiped them with her hair, and caressed them with her kisses.

When the Pharisee disapproved of the woman, Jesus rebuked him. But what he said to the Pharisee was for the encouragement of the woman, as well. For, what Jesus said to the Pharisee is that everything that he should have done for Jesus, but did not do, the woman did do. For, he said, “she loved much.” And, he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

And we read in Luke 8:1-3 that some women even traveled with Jesus and the disciples, too, and that they helped provide for Jesus’ and the disciples’ needs out of their own means.

I am assuming that the women made things which they sold for money, and that out of their earnings that they helped provide for Jesus and his disciples in the work of the ministry. So, they were co-laborers with Jesus and with his twelve male disciples in the ministry.

Your Daughters Shall Prophesy

And, when the Scriptures teach on the gifts of the Spirit, they do not differentiate between men and women, i.e. that some gifts are not for women. In fact, in Acts 2:17-18 we read:

“And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.”

So, why is it then that we have these teachings in the New Testament that sound as though women are to always remain silent, that they are not to speak in the gatherings of the church, without exception? (1 Corinthians 14:34-35; 1 Timothy 2:11-12). Doesn’t that seem contradictory to how Jesus treated women? And isn’t it contradictory to the passage in Acts 2, and to other New Testament scriptures that speak of women prophesying?

And why is it that so many church congregations, at least here in America, do not allow their women to prophecy (preach) in their gatherings? And some pastors treat women as though they are dirt under their feet for them to walk on? For, Jesus never treated a woman like that. He valued women, and he used women in ministry, and he even sent women out to share the gospel with men. And the Holy Spirit of God gifted women to prophesy. So, why would God then turn around and put the smack down on women?

And, why, then would the Scriptures talk about how we are all one body in Christ, and that we are all necessary, and that one part should not say to another, “We have no need of you!”? And why would it teach that the body grows and builds itself up in love and in the faith as “each part” does its work? And then tell our women that their part, which God gave to them, and for which he gifted them, is not permitted? Is the church then not suppressing the gifts of women?

How can we resolve these seeming contradictions? Is it possible that these passages on the silence of women in the church can have another plausible explanation other than the complete and total suppression of the gift of prophecy among the women in the church? And, if so, what might that be?

For, women obviously prophesied in New Testament times (See: Luke 2:36; Acts 2:17; Acts 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5). So, how are we to understand this restriction of the silence of women in the church if God poured out his Spirit on both men and women so that they could prophesy, and we have recorded in the New Testament that there were indeed women who did prophesy? What is the context? What is the purpose of the restriction?

The Context Reveals

Well, the context of 1 Corinthians 14 is that of teaching on spiritual gifts, teaching on love, and instructions regarding the misuse of the gifts and the right way in which the gifts are to be used, and regarding their purpose, too. So, this is in the context of 1 Corinthians 12 and 13, also.

And it is in 1 Corinthians 12 where we are taught that each body part is necessary, and that we are not to say to another part of the body that we have no need of him or of her. And it is God who decides who gets what part, too. And it is the Holy Spirit who assigns the gifts.

And, here in 1 Corinthians 14 we are told first off to pursue love, and to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that we would prophesy. And the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding, consolation and encouragement. The one who prophesies edifies other believers, for the spiritual growth and advancement of them in the faith. He or she inspires, cheers, urges, nurtures, promotes and fosters spiritual maturity and holy walks in the Spirit of God, too, which is consistent with Ephesians 4:15-16.

So, if both women and men are gifted with the gift of prophecy, and we women are to use the gifts of the Spirit given to us for the upbuilding and the encouragement of the body of Christ, his church; and if not one of us is to say to another “We have no need of you,” and if all the parts are necessary, and women did prophesy in the New Testament, and the body of Christ is built up in the faith as “each part” does its work, then we have to conclude that these instructions on the silencing of women have a meaning other than the absolute silence of women in the church.

Order and Submission

So, again, let’s look at the context. The context has to do with how gifts are used, and it has to do with the order in which they are used. And, then let’s look at the wording of the passage, too. For, it all comes down to submission. It says that a woman, if she has questions regarding something she wants to learn, that she should ask her husband at home. So, apparently women were interrupting the order of service to ask questions. And some of this is definitely cultural to that day and time.

It also appears, by the context, that these women were usurping authority over the men, for it clearly instructs them that they are to be in submission to their husbands, and to the leadership of the church, and it indicates that they were stepping out of that order by speaking in the church gatherings in a disruptive way. So, these women were out of order in what they were doing.

And the passage in 1 Timothy 2 supports this, that women are not to usurp authority over the men, and that they are not to instruct men in an authoritative manner which would require men to obey them.

So, in conclusion, I believe God has gifted both men and women in various ways, and that Scripturally both men and women are gifted with the gift of prophecy (preaching), which is for the edification and encouragement of the body of Christ and for their strengthening and nurturing of them in the faith, that they may all reach maturity in Christ Jesus, their Lord.

I believe Jesus values women highly, that he gifts them in ministry, and that he calls them to prophesy (preach) the truths of Scriptures so that the body of Christ might be drawn closer to their Lord in walks of faith, and so that they may not wander off from the faith to go after what is false. I also believe that our Lord uses women sometimes in areas usually assigned to men, but that he does so when so many men are spiritually AWOL, and they are neglecting their callings (See Luke 7:36-50 as illustrative of this).

Lastly, I believe it all comes down to submission to the authorities within the church. If women are given permission to speak, and it is done in proper order, and if it is done in the right way, for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, then they should be allowed to speak. But they are not to usurp authority over the men nor to cause a disturbance in the congregation, and they are not to instruct men in the sense of being over men in authority. But they are to remain in submission and in proper order, and then they can speak as they are called upon to speak, as God gifts them to speak.

[Acts 2:14-18,42-47; Romans 12:1-8; 1 Corinthians 12:1-31; 1 Corinthians 14:1-5; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:1-16; Ephesians 5:15-21; Ephesians 6:10-20; Philippians 2:1-8; Colossians 3:12-16; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 10:23-25; James 5:19-20]

Have Thine Own Way, Lord

Words by Adelaide A. Pollard, 1907
Music by George C. Stebbins, 1907


Have Thine own way, Lord! Have Thine own way!
Thou art the potter, I am the clay.
Mold me and make me after Thy will,
While I am waiting, yielded and still.

Have Thine own way, Lord! Have Thine own way!
Search me and try me, Master, today!
Whiter than snow, Lord, wash me just now,
As in Thy presence humbly I bow.

Have Thine own way, Lord! Have Thine own way!
Wounded and weary, help me I pray!
Power, all power, surely is Thine!
Touch me and heal me, Savior divine!

Have Thine own way, Lord! Have Thine own way!
Hold o'er my being absolute sway.
Fill with Thy Spirit till all shall see
Christ only, always, living in me!

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Women in Ministry
An Original Work / August 4, 2019
Reposted on November 7, 2025
(with slight editing)
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

As long as it's on your own time and doesn't interfere with your work (like supplying marriage licenses) of course.

Okay, I can get on board with that. If a cop says nasty things about gay people but treats them okay at work that would be fine.
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