Dan1988 said:

Yes, but you falsy believe that you conjured up your faith while you were dead in your sin. There in lies the problem, you have nothing that you didn't receive from God. That includes "your faith", but you didn't make your faith it was given to you by God, so that you would believe the gospel when you hear it.

No natural man can believe, until God gives him the faith to believe. Do you believe this, please?

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Congratulations you quoted 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 now read the next 5 statements Paul said and learn why he said that.

“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He isn’t finished here, continue reading.

“And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now you tell me are these Corinthians spiritually appraised? Are they understanding the things of the Spirit according to what Paul just said here? Are these people believers in Christ?

JimR-OCDS said:

So, what are the no-Kings protests really about?

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Many are paid protesters (agitators). What they are really about is destroying our form of government. This is not an organic exercise of free speech and protest, it is an organized effort to bring down this Republic. Many are just duped puppets of the organizers. Just watch some of the many videos by investigative journalist on the ground. It is easy to discern what this is when one hears the organized propaganda from the leaders and the incoherent babble from the puppets.

Hang on tight folks!!! The Muslims are coming!

Be afraid!! Don't trust in God. Be afraid and find ways to suppress Muslims politically!!

meat puppet

Fun is throwing water balloons.

Dan1988 said:

No, they never truly believed. Yes they made a public profession of faith and walked down the isle, but they were never inwardly converted.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

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Ok so you think that 1 John 2:19 is saying that anyone who turns away was never a true believer? Because that’s not what is actually written in that passage and that interpretation directly contradicts James 5:19-20. So first of all John is talking about a specific group of people. “They went out from us” not “if anyone went out from us”. In that passage John is talking about a specific group of people who left the church. So let’s compare this to James 5:19-20.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here James is talking about a true believer who strays from the truth of the gospel and says that his soul is in danger of death unless he is turned BACK. The key indicator that this person is a true believer is the phrase “and one turns him BACK”. If this person wasn’t a true believer to begin with he would have nothing to turn back to that would save his soul from death. Only a backslidden true believer can turn back and be saved. Now if what you’re saying is true and a true believer can’t lose their salvation then this person’s soul could never be in danger of death in the first place just like those who fail to abide in Christ in John 15:6. In fact John 15:6 would be describing an impossible scenario if it is impossible for someone to fail to remain in Christ to the point of being cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned since according to Calvinists no one can come to Christ unless The Father draws them. You don’t recognize that the means by which we are drawn to Christ has changed after His crucifixion according to John 12:32.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In John 6:44 Jesus was talking about how people were drawn to Him at that time. In John 12:32 Jesus is talking about how people will be drawn to Him after His crucifixion. There’s a definite change in the way that we are drawn to Christ after His crucifixion and it’s thru the gospel which is why the very last words He spoke to His apostles before ascending into heaven were….

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is His plan for how He draws all men to Himself after He is raised up.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Notice that the gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, not for those who are allowed or chosen to believe.

iluvatar5150 said:

Did you understand what I wrote about it being vague enough to be consistent with a lot of different plans?

Aside from complete destruction, that line is also consistent with the East Wing being heavily modified; it remaining and being incorporated into the new building; and the new building being appended onto it

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Okay, then what's all the hulabaloo about?

iluvatar5150 said:

The only way it's "obvious" is with hindsight and with giving him the benefit of the doubt. It was not at all obvious to anybody at the time, which is why everybody was surprised.

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If anyone at the time actually cared enough about this topic to listen to his press conference, I assume they'd have been interested enough to read the short press release. You can't replace part of something without touching that part. This is just after-the-fact manufactured hulabaloo courtesy of the usual Trump-hating industrial complex.

iluvatar5150 said:

lol, seriously? He lies constantly. It's one of his defining characteristics.

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I almost posted about this response because I anticipated it. The obnoxious logical fallacy of "he must be lying because he always lies".

.

Do you see any good fruit from Islam? Eastern religions you have tried. Do you need love are you hurting. The Bible would inform you much. And Judaism has zeal ‘but without knowledge. Only Jesus said the truth will set you free. He is the truth. For the human He is complete. Not trying to put everyone else down but to give you some perspective on the other god believing and not religions. And I don’t think you want religion. But peace with God.

Oompa Loompa said:

If we all are going to be honest, the Biden administration was more fascist than Trump's second term.

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Yeah. You can't just "both sides did it too" unless you're going to actually compare useful stats that also address the frequency of trumps disconcerting proclamations.

Huh. like how hes bypassing congress for the atracks on drug boats? Or all of his executive orders.
Or like how he praises tyrants and says he wants to emulate them.
Or how he's empowered a prejudice police force that covers it's face and challenges people based just on skin colour?

Oompa Loompa said:

I mean, people were arrested for not wearing masks on an empty beach.

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You mean when Trump was president?

Paddle boarder chased by boat, arrested in Malibu after flouting coronavirus closures

Besides wasn't that a state issue?

The Lord clearly knew Himself ( Luke 4:40-41 etc.) interestingly the demons knew & Satan did not ( from what I gather).

I just noticed post #4, I wasn’t making any reference or debating that post this was just my observation ( fwiw) from Luke 4.

Carl Emerson said:

Jesus spoke truth and often offended.

Discuss how this applies in our world.

Are we loosing an 'edge' if we don't offend?

Is the church largely silent on public issues for this reason?

Your input appreciated.

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Is the goal to stay "edgy" and offend?

Fervent said:

There are, admittedly, missteps in church history. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater by painting things with such broad and inflexible brush. Especially not by mischaracterizing and misrepresenting what took place to fit a narrative.

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I have begun and do intend to greatly broaden the brush unto proper factual narrative, established by the Vatican itself throughout history, in her own words. This isn't just a blame game, but rather an investigation into motives of and teachings unto effect. There is plenty wrong to be addressed with all human institutions granted they are around long enough to be infected with the plenty of wrong existing within each one of us. This discussion has nothing to do with anyone being any better than anyone else, as none actually are. We are all infected with sin, and in desperate need of salvation.

Being a jerk is seldom a good strategy in any occasion.

This is one of the bad things about social media in general. This site is a relativity safe place for Christians of different denominations and different stages in their journey to share and discuss things thanks to the mods and the community.

Broader social media in general (X, Reddit, Facebook / Meta, TicTock, etc).. no so much.

It should probably be different, but it really isn't. No matter how you practice your Christian faith, there will always be another person identifying as a Christian, somewhere, that cannot wait to tell you, at length, often with a degree of venom and volume that, "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!"....in love..of course.

I have heard that the great tribulation is for the Israelis and the millenium and Armageddon. And the church will be in heavenly places’. Any agree or disagree?

NxNW said:

If there's a flaw in my logic, let's see it.

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Not so much a flaw in logic. You're just very confused and confusing.

Chesterton said:

Accountability. I have socio-political beliefs similar to Kirk's. I would not feel safe working around co-workers who think it's okay to murder me in front of my family.

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NxNW said:

Did anyone make such a statement (other than Kirk)?

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Chesterton said:

I never heard Kirk say that. I said it. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree with me, though.

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16. The Church has always taken action to destroy the plague of bad books. This was true even in apostolic times for we read that the apostles themselves burned a large number of books.[23] It may be enough to consult the laws of the fifth Council of the Lateran on this matter and the Constitution which Leo X published afterwards lest “that which has been discovered advantageous for the increase of the faith and the spread of useful arts be converted to the contrary use and work harm for the salvation of the faithful.”[24] This also was of great concern to the fathers of Trent, who applied a remedy against this great evil by publishing that wholesome decree concerning the Index of books which contain false doctrine.[25] “We must fight valiantly,” Clement XIII says in an encyclical letter about the banning of bad books, “as much as the matter itself demands and must exterminate the deadly poison of so many books; for never will the material for error be withdrawn, unless the criminal sources of depravity perish in flames.”[26] Thus it is evident that this Holy See has always striven, throughout the ages, to condemn and to remove suspect and harmful books. The teaching of those who reject the censure of books as too heavy and onerous a burden causes immense harm to the Catholic people and to this See. They are even so depraved as to affirm that it is contrary to the principles of law, and they deny the Church the right to decree and to maintain it.

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Did Jesus or His apostles really teach the banning and burning of books? Is it not most obvious that the Catholic church did and does condone censorship and the burning of books, which included all translations of the bible she did not approve of? Does the above declaration not conclusively state that the papacy should have the right to decree and maintain book banning and burning?

17. We have learned that certain teachings are being spread among the common people in writings which attack the trust and submission due to princes; the torches of treason are being lit everywhere. Care must be taken lest the people, being deceived, are led away from the straight path. May all recall, according to the admonition of the apostle that “there is no authority except from God; what authority there is has been appointed by God. Therefore he who resists authority resists the ordinances of God; and those who resist bring on themselves condemnation.”[27] Therefore both divine and human laws cry out against those who strive by treason and sedition to drive the people from confidence in their princes and force them from their government…………

19. These beautiful examples of the unchanging subjection to the princes necessarily proceeded from the most holy precepts of the Christian religion. They condemn the detestable insolence and improbity of those who, consumed with the unbridled lust for freedom, are entirely devoted to impairing and destroying all rights of dominion while bringing servitude to the people under the slogan of liberty. Here surely belong the infamous and wild plans of the Waldensians, the Beghards, the Wycliffites, and other such sons of Belial, who were the sores and disgrace of the human race; they often received a richly deserved anathema from the Holy See. For no other reason do experienced deceivers devote their efforts, except so that they, along with Luther, might joyfully deem themselves “free of all.” To attain this end more easily and quickly, they undertake with audacity any infamous plan whatever.

20. Nor can We predict happier times for religion and government from the plans of those who desire vehemently to separate the Church from the state, and to break the mutual concord between temporal authority and the priesthood. It is certain that that concord which always was favorable and beneficial for the sacred and the civil order is feared by the shameless lovers of liberty. ……………………………

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Was it really better when church and state were united and all citizens were subject to people whose authority they had nothing to do with establishing over them? Who were abused and even killed by these authorities of disobeying them? Popes, priests, and clergy lorded over them, without any input or consent by them. Kings, Queens, and royalty established by birth and or favor, without the consent or favor of those whom they lorded themselves over? Nor most obviously, any measure of character or even common decency as a great many of them repeatedly demonstrated throughout history? Is not all of the above exactly what democracies and Constitutional governments for and by the people were established to overcome and prevent? Did not these very forms of government arise in the battle against united Papal and monarchial abuses of the dark ages Feudalism of Europe? Directly connected to the Protestant Reformation and or Rationalist movements of many people seeking relief from oppressive united Papal and Monarchial governments? Yes to all of the above.

23. May Our dear sons in Christ, the princes, support these Our desires for the welfare of Church and State with their resources and authority. May they understand that they received their authority not only for the government of the world, but especially for the defense of the Church. They should diligently consider that whatever work they do for the welfare of the Church accrues to their rule and peace. Indeed let them persuade themselves that they owe more to the cause of the faith than to their kingdom. Let them consider it something very great for themselves as We say with Pope St. Leo, “if in addition to their royal diadem the crown of faith may be added.” Placed as if they were parents and teachers of the people, they will bring them true peace and tranquility, if they take special care that religion and piety remain safe. God, after all, calls Himself “King of kings and Lord of lords.”

24. That all of this may come to pass prosperously and happily, let Us raise Our eyes and hands to the most holy Virgin Mary, who alone crushes all heresies, and is Our greatest reliance and the whole reason for Our hope.[33] May she implore by her patronage a successful outcome for Our plans and actions. Let Us humbly ask of the Prince of the Apostles, Peter and his co-apostle Paul that all of you may stand as a wall lest a foundation be laid other than that which has already been laid. Relying on this happy hope, We trust that the Author and Crown of Our faith Jesus Christ will console Us in all these Our tribulations. We lovingly impart the apostolic benediction to you, venerable brothers, and to the sheep committed to your care as a sign of heavenly aid.

Given in Rome at St. Mary Major, on August 15, the feast of the Assumption of the Virgin, in the year of Our Lord 1832, the second year of Our Pontificate.

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Have all governments and earthly authorities received such by God for the defense of Roman Catholicism? Do they owe more to the papacy than to their own nations and or citizens? Is the papacy not still to this very day commanding these very same things by continually supporting and calling for the submission of all nations to international organizations of unelected officials, over and above the wishes and desires of their own citizens? Yes she is, as will be demonstrated by her own words many times over on this thread, God willing. This is not to mention her support of internet, news, and social media censorship as well.

Should it be any surprise that an institution promoting and supporting such sentiments as those quoted above, should have forbidden a great many books and translations of the bible according to the dictates of the institutions own corporate conscience and in violation of a great many others, corporate or individual?
Yes it should, as such sentiments are more in line with the following Catholic proclamations as well.

“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”(Unam Sanctam)

’If Catholics ever attain, which they surely will, though at a distant day, the immense numerical majority in the United States, religious liberty, as at present understood, will be at an end. So say our enemies; so say we.’ (Our Sunday Visitor, pg. 3, Apr. 18, 1915)

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Am I a bigot for quoting, addressing, and stating my opinions regarding the above quotes from actual documents? Should I be censored for doing so? I guess we shall see. The above is just the first exhibit of the many examples revealing a spirit and attitude which most obviously would and does support censorship simply for disagreement, not actual and real harmful content. In any case, obviously the Vatican continued a manner and spirit supportive of censorship even of holy scripture they claimed was dangerous well into the 1800's.

All the mainstream Judaic/Christian religions have germs of truth.

However, only the Catholic Church has the fullness of revealed truth.

The following excerpts are taken from the first papal encyclical after the French Revolution, during which time the French people rejected the authority of the Catholic Church, their Catholic monarchy, and religion altogether. Which included the removal of the present Pope into exile, and the disbanding of the Vatican. They reveal her new efforts to undo all that the masses effected in their wholesale rejection of her usurped authority just over three decades prior to its publication. Some of those she considers enemies of this desired purpose are identified in the encyclical as well. The link provided above the quoted excerpts, is where the encyclical may be viewed in its entirety. Emphasis is mine, my comments are in blue.

Mirari Vos - Papal Encyclicals

Mirari Vos

On Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism

Pope Gregory XVI - 1832

ON LIBERALISM AND RELIGIOUS INDIFFERENTISM

To All Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, and Bishops of the Catholic World.
Venerable Brothers, Greetings and Apostolic Benediction.​

We think that you wonder why, from the time of Our assuming the pontificate, We have not yet sent a letter to you as is customary and as Our benevolence for you demanded. We wanted very much to address you by that voice by which We have been commanded, in the person of blessed Peter, to strengthen the brethren.[1] You know what storms of evil and toil, at the beginning of Our pontificate, drove Us suddenly into the depths of the sea. If the right hand of God had not given Us strength, We would have drowned as the result of the terrible conspiracy of impious men. The mind recoils from renewing this by enumerating so many dangers; instead We bless the Father of consolation Who, having overthrown all enemies, snatched Us from the present danger. When He had calmed this violent storm, He gave Us relief from fear. At once We decided to advise you on healing the wounds of Israel; but the mountain of concerns We needed to address in order to restore public order delayed Us…………………

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Is the Catholic church the New Covenant Israel?

4. We come to you grieving and sorrowful because We know that you are concerned for the faith in these difficult times. Now is truly the time in which the powers of darkness winnow the elect like wheat.[3] “The earth mourns and fades away….And the earth is infected by the inhabitants thereof, because they have transgressed the laws, they have changed the ordinances, they have broken the everlasting covenant.”[4]

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Whose laws had they transgressed, and whose "everlasting" covenant had they broken? Is disobeying the Catholic church, and breaking covenant with it, disobeying and breaking the everlasting covenant with God?

5. We speak of the things which you see with your own eyes, which We both bemoan. Depravity exults; science is impudent; liberty, dissolute. The holiness of the sacred is despised; the majesty of divine worship is not only disapproved by evil men, but defiled and held up to ridicule. Hence sound doctrine is perverted and errors of all kinds spread boldly. The laws of the sacred, the rights, institutions, and discipline — none are safe from the audacity of those speaking evil. Our Roman See is harassed violently and the bonds of unity are daily loosened and severed. The divine authority of the Church is opposed and her rights shorn off. She is subjected to human reason and with the greatest injustice exposed to the hatred of the people and reduced to vile servitude. The obedience due bishops is denied and their rights are trampled underfoot. Furthermore, academies and schools resound with new, monstrous opinions, which openly attack the Catholic faith; this horrible and nefarious war is openly and even publicly waged. Thus, by institutions and by the example of teachers, the minds of the youth are corrupted and a tremendous blow is dealt to religion and the perversion of morals is spread. So the restraints of religion are thrown off, by which alone kingdoms stand. We see the destruction of public order, the fall of principalities, and the overturning of all legitimate power approaching. Indeed this great mass of calamities had its inception in the heretical societies and sects in which all that is sacrilegious, infamous, and blasphemous has gathered as bilge water in a ship’s hold, a congealed mass of all filth.

6. These and many other serious things, which at present would take too long to list, but which you know well, cause Our intense grief. It is not enough for Us to deplore these innumerable evils unless We strive to uproot them. We take refuge in your faith and call upon your concern for the salvation of the Catholic flock. Your singular prudence and diligent spirit give Us courage and console Us, afflicted as We are with so many trials. We must raise Our voice and attempt all things lest a wild boar from the woods should destroy the vineyard or wolves kill the flock. It is Our duty to lead the flock only to the food which is healthful. In these evil and dangerous times, the shepherds must never neglect their duty; they must never be so overcome by fear that they abandon the sheep. Let them never neglect the flock and become sluggish from idleness and apathy. Therefore, united in spirit, let us promote our common cause, or more truly the cause of God; let our vigilance be one and our effort united against the common enemies.

7. Indeed you will accomplish this perfectly if, as the duty of your office demands, you attend to yourselves and to doctrine and meditate on these words: “the universal Church is affected by any and every novelty”[5] and the admonition of Pope Agatho: “nothing of the things appointed ought to be diminished; nothing changed; nothing added; but they must be preserved both as regards expression and meaning.”[6] Therefore may the unity which is built upon the See of Peter as on a sure foundation stand firm. May it be for all a wall and a security, a safe port, and a treasury of countless blessings.[7] To check the audacity of those who attempt to infringe upon the rights of this Holy See or to sever the union of the churches with the See of Peter, instill in your people a zealous confidence in the papacy and sincere veneration for it. As St. Cyprian wrote: “He who abandons the See of Peter on which the Church was founded, falsely believes himself to be a part of the Church.”[8]…………………….

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Is the cause of Roman Catholicism the cause of God? Are all those who oppose her congealed masses of heretical filth? Are they blasphemous for doing so? Are all those who seek to separate themsleves from the Church of Rome audacious, infamous, bilge waters in ships holds?

9. Furthermore, the discipline sanctioned by the Church must never be rejected or be branded as contrary to certain principles of natural law. It must never be called crippled, or imperfect or subject to civil authority. In this discipline the administration of sacred rites, standards of morality, and the reckoning of the rights of the Church and her ministers are embraced…………

13. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism”[16] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,”[17] and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.”[18] Let them hear Jerome who, while the Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join his group he always exclaimed: “He who is for the See of Peter is for me.”[19] A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he, too, has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed Augustine would reply to such a man: “The branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine; but of what profit for it is the form, if it does not live from the root?”[20]

14. This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs, though some repeat over and over again with the greatest impudence that some advantage accrues to religion from it. “But the death of the soul is worse than freedom of error,” as Augustine was wont to say.[21] When all restraints are removed by which men are kept on the narrow path of truth, their nature, which is already inclined to evil, propels them to ruin. Then truly “the bottomless pit”[22] is open from which John saw smoke ascending which obscured the sun, and out of which locusts flew forth to devastate the earth. Thence comes transformation of minds, corruption of youths, contempt of sacred things and holy laws — in other words, a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty.

15. Here We must include that harmful and never sufficiently denounced freedom to publish any writings whatever and disseminate them to the people, which some dare to demand and promote with so great a clamor. We are horrified to see what monstrous doctrines and prodigious errors are disseminated far and wide in countless books, pamphlets, and other writings which, though small in weight, are very great in malice. We are in tears at the abuse which proceeds from them over the face of the earth. Some are so carried away that they contentiously assert that the flock of errors arising from them is sufficiently compensated by the publication of some book which defends religion and truth. Every law condemns deliberately doing evil simply because there is some hope that good may result. Is there any sane man who would say poison ought to be distributed, sold publicly, stored, and even drunk because some antidote is available and those who use it may be snatched from death again and again?

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Should the Catholic Church never be subject to the authorities of the many nations she exists within? Will all perish who do not hold the catholic faith whole and inviolate? Are claims of liberty of conscience for all, indifferentism, erroneous, and absurd propositions? Is freedom to publish one's beliefs freely for all who care to read such, harmful and to be denounced? Does the Catholic church have the right to do so, while denying to all others she wishes? Is all such declaration not at exact variance the Declaration of Independence and Constitution of The United States of America? This dress to be continued in the next post.

@stevevw, the main problem I and many others have with your claim is the same problem we have with many such conspiracy theories: that your leaps of logic are too damn big!

You go from "Oh, we can't find any evidence of them using simple tools" and then absolutely shoot right to "Therefore, they must have had such super advanced tech that no-one knows about! Even though there's not a shred of physical or artistic reference of it at all, that must be the case!".

How is anyone NOT going to be skeptical of such a claim?

wing2000 said:

....Donald is obviously in a fragile state of mind after all the criticism of his demolition of the East Wing.

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He should release the Epstein files to distract people from it.

For God to be certain is an great absolute. Satan has a finite memory and field of vision. I think he could see some way into spirits and tell much of who they were. Maybe remembering things about them and today too, Satan remembers us. The fullness of the Godhead dwelling bodily would stand out to him.

Hentenza said:

And is a sea made of cast metal sitting on top of 12 oxen and standing near the temple.

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No but it gives us an idea how they measured.

ThatRobGuy said:

This wasn't a red state rally, this was in Chicago.

Cook County is one of the deepest blue counties in the country (over 84% Democratic)
This lady was a public school teacher (who across the board, heavily lean toward the progressive side)


She's also holding a Mexican Flag, right next to a sign that says "worst president ever"
View attachment 372047

Seems like if presented with the options of "this person takes the leftist position on almost every issue that comes down the pike" vs. "this is a moderate person, who just doesn't like the way Trump conducts business"

The overwhelming Vegas odds would be on the former.

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OK,but it's hard for me to take it seriously when you and others in this discussion want to brand everybody who was there as a left wing extremist. on all issues because for you "left wingt extremist" means anybody who disagrees with you about anything, especially about sex.