• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

We can’t trust what the chief of police has to say…because there’s a “higher authority” who assures us that it’s so bad we have to send in troops!

Okay, ready to ditch State’s Rights all in one go, once-and-for-all?
Its not a matter of states rights. When the police failed to do their jobs to protect the federal.agents and buildings the rhe NG can be used to do so.
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Buuuut, they are not allowed to block the streets and entrances to the buildings or attempt to prevent the exits and entrances of the vehicles. They arw not allowed to shoot fireworks at agents or the building. They aren't allowed to threaten people buddy. They aren't allowed to hit people.with their poles buddy.
They never were.
People have been successfully and legally protesting for decades.

And when the “protestees” want, they’ll push back against this legal-protesting as if it were a giant afford to public safety…by “sending in the troops!”

And here we are!
Upvote 0

Are infants guilty because of Adam's sin?

"Convincing" is not the criteria for God's truth in Ro 5:14, 17, 18-19, where
all those of Adam are condemned by the sin of Adam imputed to them (Ro 5:14, 17), just as
all those of Christ are redeemed by the righteousness of Christ imputed to them (Ro 5:18-19).
If you're not trying to convince me, then why the hubbub?
Study Ro 5:14, 17 (which imputed sin, v.17, is the pattern, v.14, for the imputed righteousness of the one to come; i.e., Jesus of Nazareth).
The righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer. The sin of Adam is not imputed to mankind. It's not symmetrical. The sin imputed to people are the actual sins they commit, which they are culpable for. So this makes infants, having initially a dormant sin nature, innocent until they commit sin. There are plenty of scriptures that back this up.
It is our nature (with which we are born) that makes us "objects of God's wrath" (Eph 2:3); i.e., "by nature, objects of wrath."
All the sons of Adam are sons of disobedience through their inherited fallen sinful nature.
People are sons of disobedience when they practice it. Eph. 2 is talking about people "walking according to the course of the world" who are already sinners. It doesn't include infants which are innocent, since they have not yet sinned.
Why would an infant rattlesnake in my backyard where my children play, which snake doesn't even have rattlers yet, be killed by me?

It's not God's job to convince you, it's your job to believe God in his word written.
And that belief/faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3).
I believe God's word, not your assertions. Your assertions are not God's word. Your rattlesnake analogy is a straw man. Infants don't bite and poison people because it's not in their nature as an infant. Since the sin nature is still dormant in them until they start sinning, they remain innocent. So your dogma about imputed sin just doesn't cut the mustard.
Upvote 0

Emergency abortion denials by Catholic hospitals put woman in danger, after her water broke at 17 weeks, lawsuit claims

If the poster was someone who didn't continue to throw stones at Christians for every little thing they do wrong, I wouldn't have reacted the way I did. But they send post after post after post of story that smack Christians in the face.
These documented news stories may upset you, but as someone more prestigious than I once noted, "That they are what they are, do not blame me!"

I mean, as a stone-thrower, I'm not personally in a position to deny anyone emergency medical care, but feel free to share the stories of secular hospitals doing the same based on their ethical guidelines.
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

What you think they are rolling in rhe tanks and jet planes? Maybe some B2s. They arw sending in some troops to protect the officers. Good grief. If my house was on fire and the fire department refused to show up I would be happy in the NG came with their own fire truck to help out.
You wouldn‘t think it odd that the National Guard was in your neighborhood, (in the first place)?, (I mean he’s, thank goodness they saved your home…but where do they bivouac?)
Upvote 0

US Citizens detained for hours during massive immigration raid that empties Chicago apartment building in the middle of the night

I don't understand why anyone can accept this. Maybe just because it is happening to someone else, not them (yet)? I've got to think MAGA would go berserk if it was them being drug out of bed and cuffed in the middle of the night. Wouldn't they?
Let's ask the MAGA supporters who have posted in this thread. Um... they seem to be absent. I can only assume they are out exercising their right to protest against a tyrannical government.
Upvote 0

Trump Calls For Ilhan Omar’s Removal From Congress

And others.

Overall, we rate The Religion of Peace as Questionable for having an extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy/propaganda, lack of transparency, and anti-Islam tendencies.

Reasoning: Propaganda, Conspiracy, Lack of Transparency, Anti-Islam
Bias Rating: EXTREME RIGHT
Factual Reporting: LOW
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY


When I asked AI if religionofpeace.com is a credible source, I got the following answer:

AI Overview

The website TheReligionofPeace.com lacks credibility due to its strong anti-Islamic bias, use of polemic and propaganda, and presentation of cherry-picked and misrepresented information. It is widely criticized by Muslim groups, academic sources, and religious dialogue websites for its dishonesty and inaccuracies.

Anti-Islamic bias and agenda

The website is recognized as a counter-Islam and anti-Islamic propaganda site. Its name itself is a sarcastic and polemical take on the phrase often used to describe Islam.

The site acts as a clearinghouse for arguments that depict Islam as inherently violent, with the express purpose of belittling and dismissing the faith.




I've already shown you how the site was incorrect in its explanation of taqiyya and lying in Islam. Its annual "List of Killing in the Name of Islam" also contains false or misleading information. Many entries on the list either can't be verified, aren't related to religion, or never happened at all. Since I'm very familiar with events in the southern Philippines, I will show some examples of this from that country.

The religionofpeace site claims: "These are not incidents of ordinary crime involving perpetrators who happen to be Muslim. This is deadly violence that is reasonably determined to have been committed out of religious duty or sanction - as interpreted by the terrorist. Islam needs to be a factor, but not necessarily the only one."


2025.06.15 Philippines Zamboanga del Sur 2 killed Muslim terrorists are suspected in the shooting deaths of two Christians, a mother and daughter.

Local reporting doesn't identify the suspects.

2 die, 1 hurt in Zamboanga del Sur gun attack

A mother and her daughter were shot to death while on their way to church on Sunday in Barangay Kagawasan, Dimataling town, Zamboanga del Sur province.

The still unidentified gunmen fled toward the Tabina road, Arañas said.



2024.11.14 Philippines Mindanao 1 killed A female water employee is murdered by Bangsamoro Islamists.

Local reporting says the suspect is a hired killer. There's no mention of religion being a factor.

Female engineer in BARMM public works ministry shot dead

A suspected hired killer shot dead a female engineer in the Bangsamoro public works ministry while in a roadside eatery along a highway in Barangay Tamontaka in Datu Odin Sinsuat, Maguindanao del Norte on Thursday, November 14.

Engineer Darlene Pacete was with companions inside the establishment when a man approached, pulled out a pistol from his bag, shot her repeatedly and ran away.



024.05.26 Philippines Tantangan 4 killed Muslim terrorists are suspected of machine-gunning four farmers drinking alcohol.

Local reporting says suspects are unknown.

4 farmers killed in South Cotabato gun attack

Four farmers who were drinking in Barangay Dumadalig in Tantangan, South Cotabato were killed, while another was wounded in an attack by men armed with M16 assault rifles at almost Sunday midnight.

The gunmen hurriedly escaped, according to witnesses.



2023.11.23 Philippines Barangay Kudarangan 2 killed Moro Islamists assassinate a secular politician and guard.

Local reporting says this was related to a long-standing feud.

Village councilman, pal slain in North Cotabato gun attack

A village councilman and a watchman were killed when they were attacked in what police believed was triggered by a long-standing clan war in the town of Midsayap in North Cotabato at 1 a.m. Thursday.

Calinga said the families of Singh, a member of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF), and that of a certain Sukarno Madidis, also an MNLF member, have been locked in a long-standing “rido” (family feud).



2023.10.10 Philippines Maguindanao 1 killed 1 injured Bangsamoro Islamists are suspected in the assassination of a foreign national.

The killer is unknown.

Saudi embassy in Manila is working to repatriate deceased citizen’s body

The embassy received with great sadness and sorrow the news of the killing of a Saudi citizen and the injury of his wife, at the hands of an unknown person who opened fire on them while the citizen was driving his vehicle along with his wife on a public road in Shariff Aguak in the southern Maguindanao del Sur province.


2022.03.17 Philippines Sitio Tenorio 1 killed A man is shot off his motorcycle by Moro Islamists.
2022.03.16 Philippines Datu Odin Sinsuat 2 killed Two civilians are gunned down by suspected Moro Islamists.


Another feud.

Maguindanao gun attacks claim 4 lives, hurt 3 others

Four persons were killed while three others were wounded in separate gun attacks in Maguindanao in what police believed were due to “rido” or family feud, a police official said Thursday.

Capt. Fayed Canda, the Maguindanao police spokesperson, said most of the shooting incidents--five in Datu Odin Sinsuat town and one in Datu Saudi Ampatuan municipality--were motivated by clan war.

“The latest victim was a 51-year-old man who was attacked in Sitio Tenorio, Barangay Awang, Datu Odin Sinsuat, Maguindanao at 9 a.m. Thursday,” Canda said.



2021.01.27 Philippines Tulunan 2 killed 6 injured Islamists plant a bomb at a bus station, killing two patrons

A local report says 1 person was killed and 3 injured. Religionofpeace doubled the numbers. Also, extortion, not religion, was the motive behind the bombing.

Extortion group behind Tulunan bombing: SITG

The police’s Special Investigation Task Group (SITG) Sibsib has identified the Al Khobar extortion group as responsible for the Jan. 27 bombing incident here that killed one and injured three others.

Napat said “extortion” on the bus company was the primary motive in the bombing that killed fruit vendor Gina Paunon, 53.



All of the following are false claims made by ISIS, but religionofpeace included these events in their list anyway.


2023.09.19 Philippines Lanao del Norte 4 killed Four Christian farmers are brutally shot in the head by apparent ISIS.

Never happened.

2023.07.13 Philippines Maguindanao 3 killed 3 injured Several locals lose their lives to armed Islamic extremists.

Never happened.

2023.02.10 Philippines Maguing 4 killed 3 injured Four people are killed in an ambush by elements of the Moro Islamic Front.

Never happened.

2022.05.25 Philippines Bindatin 6 killed 10 injured Islamic extremists ambush a security patrol, killing six members.

Never happened.

2022.05.25 Philippines Maguindanao 6 killed 10 injured The ISEAP group claims the killing of six soldiers in a recent ambush.

Never happened.

2021.08.21 Philippines Lindongan 3 killed 3 injured Mujahideen claim the killing of three local soldiers.

Never happened.


If religionofpeace has this many errors in its reporting from just one country over a short period of time, just imagine how many there are in total on that site. Like I said, it's garbage.


Despite anything it may claim, that site was created to intentionally mislead people and to create a fear of Muslims and Islam.

Religionofpeace even uses an extremist interpretation of the Qur'an throughout it's site and even recommends people use this translation over others.

"We recommend the Noble Quran, a recent translation by Islamic scholars, but one that is generally faithful to the Arabic."

Below are a few articles where the Noble Qur'an is discussed:

QUR’AN: Playing into the Hands of the Extremists? (Hilali-Khan Qur’an Translation)

Muslim Extremism Found in Problematic Quran Translation

Hilali-Khan Qur’an Translation
Funny how anything that shows how violent Isamists are and show how the Quran supports it is suddenly right wing biased.
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

I dont care what rhe chief says. His is rhe same department that refuses to do anything about it requiring troops to be sent. If his police force would do their jobs we wouldn't need the NG.
We can’t trust what the chief of police has to say…because there’s a “higher authority” who assures us that it’s so bad we have to send in troops!

Okay, ready to ditch State’s Rights all in one go, once-and-for-all?



Thats the conclusion for what you said. Why would you say they want violence then when the troops show up? You don't think there will be any?
His words aren’t taffy.
Upvote 0

Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

Us will just say "so what?" and support it as usual.
Deflection noted. Posters in this thread have offered actual information about the show. Why can't you? Or do you know less than the people that you assert don't know what's going on?
Upvote 0

Awake Or Asleep?

This is a post that will soon be invisible, fwiw. 99% of forums, posts, webpages, etc, may be what someone learned growing up.
There is a lot of evidence, maybe possible to call a lot of proof, that what people learn growing up is almost all wrong. Thus the internet is not a reliable source of truth nor wisdom nor God's Kingdom - without even mentioning that forums and websites are practically all put up by and for money.
Sorry if I said something I should not have said, Let me know when I do that again please, thank you.
Upvote 0

Higher Property Taxes Increase Home Affordability

Not enough data points. Only Texas and California. They should do all 50 states. Would they get a straight line? I kinda doubt it.
Yes, I saw that too. They used some national data too. Mostly the dependent variable was looking at home affordibility to younger people not just affordability in general. In the lower 48, Alabama is the lowest property tax state. Home prices there are very low as well. Hawaii is the lowest in all 50 states. What do hawaii and Alabama have in common? Nothing much, the reason both have low property taxes is that Hawaii home prices are so high that the low rate of a million dollar home is in total dollar terms enough revenue. Alabama is a poor state, so they make do with less, plus get more Federal government subsidies.
Upvote 0

Are infants guilty because of Adam's sin?

By being redeemed.




"It sounds like" and "I don't get it" are not logical criticisms but rather autobiographical statements, telling us something about you. The only thing I can really say is, "I'm sorry to hear that."

Again, mankind is corporately guilty by imputation because Adam was our federal head in covenant relationship to God—and infants are a part of mankind, as are children, teenagers, young adults, the elderly, etc. And then, on top of being sinners, we are held personally guilty for our sins (transgressions), whether by commission (doing what we ought not) or omission (failing to do what we ought).

A popular way of expressing this view: "We are not sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners."

And Adam is why we are sinners.




That is not the difference. "Corporately" means all mankind in Adam, condemned by imputation (original sin); "individually" means each man in himself, condemned by transgressions (actual sins).

We sin (personal guilt) because we are sinners (corporate guilt).

(Notable consideration: The idea that "we are sinners because we sin" is the Pelagian heresy.)




I never denied a connection between sin and our bodies. Our sinful corruption is a product of our sinful condition—and, again, Adam is why we are sinners.




Perhaps you don't see it because nobody proposed it.




I don't think your view can be maintained in the larger context of this epistle. Paul did not consider himself spiritually alive until the law; rather, he wasn't aware of his spiritual death until the law—for it exposes and condemns what is already there (Rom. 5:13-14). This fits with the broader argument that the law functions to bring knowledge of sin (3:20; 7:7).




That is a separate question. If we assume federal headship in covenant theology for the sake of argument, mankind's corporate guilt and condemnation logically follows (and infants are a part of mankind). I would remind you that the opening post questioned whether infants are included in this corporate guilt and condemnation.

It sounds like you now want to challenge that premise: "What if we don't assume that for the sake of argument? Does scripture actually teach this doctrine?" That is a great question but it's a separate one from the question being asked in this thread.

(The short answer is, "Yes, it does.")




Those regard personal sin, not corporate sin (i.e., category error). I will concede that infants have not committed any personal sins.



That is what Reformed theology teaches. However, it is not only corruption but also condemnation that we inherit from Adam—just as in Christ we receive not only a new nature but also justification. "Condemnation for all people came through one transgression," Paul said (Rom. 5:16-18).
I was trying to explain my thoughts on how your argument was not convincing having to do with corporate guilt. I still don't see scripture teaching that. It appears to me that your interpretation of those verses are assuming a corporate guilt idea, rather than extracting the doctrine from the scripture. So, I'm just saying I'm not convinced.

But if you admit that infants haven't sinned, then you're essentially admitting they are innocent, because that's the definition of innocence - not sinned and having no knowledge of sin. Again, "corporate guilt" idea seems detached, sounds like something propping up the imputed sin idea. While reading through your interpretation I was thinking that it sounds like those verses you claim are teaching corporate guilt can easily be interpreted as having a sinful nature, which is a completely different issue in my mind.
Upvote 0

Awake Or Asleep?

That's what I leaned in church when I was a boy, I thought a lot of people believed that way?
This is a post that will soon be invisible, fwiw. 99% of forums, posts, webpages, etc, may be what someone learned growing up.
There is a lot of evidence, maybe possible to call a lot of proof, that what people learn growing up is almost all wrong. Thus the internet is not a reliable source of truth nor wisdom nor God's Kingdom - without even mentioning that forums and websites are practically all put up by and for money.
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

ANTIFA has been designated as a domestic terrorist group. Whether anyone agrees with the EO or not, ANTIFA has been damaging federal property and attacking federal agents. All Trump needs to do is put national guard in front of federal buildings to protect them and the terrorist organization, that liberals claim not to exist, will miraculously organize and assemble from all across the country to protest. Eventually, because ANTIFA is incapable of self-restraint, will resort to violence and find themselves arrested. Sounds like a win win.
“Criminalizing an idea” is not a new step.
It’s just “new” here and now.

Once the “enemy“ has been identified as something people can be “guilty” of in their head/minds, then anyone is suspect and we’ll have to prove we aren’t infected with the ANTIFA mind-slug, or face-the-consequences.

Bold move, too soon?
::shrug::
Upvote 0

What's on your mind?

I see a lot of Christians promoting homeschooling online. It sounds wonderful, but we don't live in a bubble either. What happens when you get a job & your coworkers have little fear of the Lord? Would they even hire you? What happens when temptation comes calling? What happens when you're exposed to the horrors of the world we live in, & the reality is the world is full of sin & sinful people & the consequences of that sin? I don't understand how homeschooling can produce people who need to function in the real world. & I don't mean this b/c 'they're too different'. I mean this, like, the world is very different from the world these homeschoolers seem to think their child is going to live in, like they somehow think the world is a Christian Paradise their child is going to live in someday when they're older, & that's not reality. Heck, I can't even go to church & can't help but think 'back to reality' when I step out. Jesus says 'I'm sending you out as sheep amongst wolves.' That's the reality Jesus says you live in

I'm not in favor of homeschooling because I think it shelters and hides them from the real world too much.
Upvote 0

Why is the Trinity never explained, described, or mentioned in all of Scripture?

Thank you so much for your gracious reply. It makes things far more pleasant if, even when we might disagree, we don't resort to nasty name-calling, etc.

I find it helpful to think about some of the things we are told in the bible about Jesus Christ, things that can only be true of God. For example, John's gospel says that Jesus Christ was already there in the beginning, and He was with God, and He was God. Also, through Him, everything was created:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

Then we have Thomas, saying to the risen Saviour: "My Lord and my God!" Jesus did not rebuke him, saying something like, "But only the Father is God. You must not call Me God."

Thanks again.
All these verses show that Jesus is God's instrument of creation and that He himself was God. Now why was Jesus himself God? Because as the Nicene Creed states - Jesus is God from God - He was begotten from/by the Father before all ages (=so NOT created like the Arians or Jehovah witnesses claim). In the same way my children are human because I'm human, Jesus is God because God the Father is God - they share the same essence/nature (Greek: ousia). But the Father and the Son are distinct identities/beings. Jesus is a human being (after His birth), God the Father is a spirit. Jesus is sub-ordinate in everything to the will of God the Father, and declares in John 17:3:

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.​
Jesus clearly distinguishes between two entities here. St. Augustine (5th century) had great difficulty with this verse and even went so far to suggest it should be translated differently to make it better fit with his Christology (into something like .. the only true God which is the Father and Jesus Christ ... ).

By plain logic the son of <a> cannot be <a> in the identity sense; but the son of <a> and <a> would have an identical nature/essence (Greek: ousia).

God the Father is still the God of Jesus - we never hear that addressed in sermons; but there are many NT verses that literally state that (Matthew 27:46, John 20:17, Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 1:17, Hebrews 10:5-7 / Psalm 40:6-8, 1 Peter 1:3, Revelations 3:2, Revelations 3:12). If God the Father currently still is the God of Jesus, than to me it seems they cannot be the same identity/entity.

Notice: I fully subscribe to the wording of the Nicene Creed (325 AD).

In the Bible we find the following titles/descriptions for Jesus:
  • Son of God
  • Son of Man
  • Holy One of God
  • Angel/messenger of YHWH / God
  • Servant of God
  • Judge of God
  • Christ of God
  • Apostle
  • High Priest
These titles for the Messiah to me make little sense if one defines God the Father to be the exact same identity/entity as Jesus. And usually there is very little attention paid to the opening line of the Nicene Creed - but it's a powerful unambivalent statement.
Upvote 0

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

Please awaken me for the “emergency“ National Naked BUS Ride Day.
(when public transit has this much “entertainment value”, we’ll know it’s all just a simulation!)
Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,876,017
Messages
65,375,730
Members
276,240
Latest member
mayersdylaan45