• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the nations...

Peace in Christ.

His people are to manifest the Son of man through their mortal bodies to the people of the outside world who are sitting in deep darkness.

We lift Him up from out of the earth when we keep His “daily” sacrifice in our mortal bodies….and this lifting up will draw all unto Him….a great multitude.

This is the “death” we are to die: to keep the dying of our Lord in our mortal bodies so that His life is made manifest in this earth thereby lifting Him up.

Joh 12:32-36 KJV
(32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(34) The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

(35) Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

We who believe in the light shining within our hearts when we hear His voice (as He opens up the Scripture of Truth to our hearing ears) are to become children of light that will shine His light to the people of the outside world who are in deep darkness. They will then see the light and come to it/us.

(36) While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them
(37) But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

We shall then become children of light in this world...and the nations shall come to His/our light. There will be a “great multitude” of them coming to Him. It will start small and will progress until it is seen openly in this world. It cannot stay unnoticed as the increase will be dramatic. They will see a "cloud" of eyewitnesses praising God...which will cause a panic among the unbelievers of this world.

This drawing/dragging of the believers of this world to Him are the “clouds” of heaven. Clouds of people = a great multitude. They are the clouds of eyewitnesses who will “see” Him through us who will reveal the Son of man to their seeing eyes. They will gather to Him/us. It starts small....a trickle...and then progresses into a flood of people that can't stay unnoticed.

Mat 24:30 KJV
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He comes with the clouds….and every eye shall see Him. It will eventually become noticeable in this world as a "great multitude" will be gathered together to Him/us.

The unbelievers of this earth will eventually see this cumulative effect of the manifestation of His presence (through us) as the people of the outside world (those who see and believe among them) will gather with us in increasing numbers.

They will eventually become a great multitude…. “clouds” of people….the clouds of eyewitnesses …of His glory that we manifest to them. .

Rev 1:5-7 KJV
(5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

The unbelievers of the world will then panic when they see the Son of man coming in a “cloud” ….a great multitude of believers among the people of the outside world.
There will be “distress of nations” with perplexity...as they breathe out in a state of quandary.... when they will see a great multitude of people praising God….where they had not before. They will see the kingdom of God coming upon the earth….His government that cannot be shaken as the temporary earthly kingdoms shake at the apprehension of what is happening.

Luk 21:25-27 KJV
(25) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
(26) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


"then" = at that time...they shall see the Son of man coming in a cloud of eyewitnesses with power and great glory (as their earthly kings shall even see Him and praise God and bring their glory to Him).

(27) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The sea and the waves roar….that is, the people of this earth make a loud noise in their rejoicing in Him and sing His praise.

Psa 98:4 KJV
(4) Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

The sea roars and the fullness thereof….the believing people of the outside earth will praise Him. The "roar" shall be heard around the world...and cause panic.

Psa 98:7-9 KJV
(7) Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

(8) Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together

They will be joyful “before”….that is, to the FACES (plural) of the LORD. We manifest His “face” by reflecting Him with an “open face” to the people of the world.

(9) Before (to the FACES) the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

The LORD makes known His salvation….OPENLY SHOWS it in the “sight” of the people of the outside world (the “heathen”). All the ends of the earth shall SEE the salvation of our God. The unbelievers of this world shall panic about what they see coming upon the earth.

Psa 98:2-3 KJV
(2) The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.

(3) He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

We all with "open face" shall show forth His glory to the people of the outside world. Even their kings and lords (the "mountains and the hills" shall break forth in the FACES of us into singing. They will rejoice when they will look upon our face as we manifest His glory to them.

Isa 55:12-13 KJV
(12) For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before (in the FACES) you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

(13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

The "cloud" shall be seen by "every eye".

And with this “cloud” of people….the myriads of His saints…He comes to execute judgment upon all….

Jud 1:14-15 KJV
(14) And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands (MYRIADS) of his saints,

(15) To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

The unbelieving man-based churches will then be judged for all of their hard speeches that they had spoken against Him as they will not have believed Him when they heard His voice speaking to them the Word of Truth.

The unbelieving man-based churches will then see the sign of the prophet Jonah as the men of Nineveh (the people of the outside world) shall rise up in the judgment of them and condemn it. It will be a “cloud” of people that will see Him and believe. By then, it is too late for they will all be shut out from His presence.

Mat 12:39-41 KJV
(39) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
(40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

(41) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

If a man loves Jesus and keeps His words that he will hear (hearing and believing in the Word of Truth that He speaks to us), Jesus and His Father will come unto him and make their abode with Him.

Joh 14:23 KJV
(23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

We are the light of the world…of the people who are sitting in deep darkness. We are the city that is set on a hill that cannot be hid.

Mat 5:14-16 KJV
(14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(15) Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.


We are to shine His light before men rather than hide it so that they may see our good works and glory our Father which is in heaven. It is not the good works that give us this light as the light comes from the glory of God and the Lamb. We get their attention with the light so that they may see our good works afterwards.

(16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

The “city” is lit by the glory of God and the Lamb. They make their abode with us. His glory appears over us…and the nations that are saved shall walk in the light of it.

Rev 21:22-26 KJV
(22) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

(23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The kings of this earth will bring their glory and honor into it. They will come to us. The Son of man comes with the clouds of heaven with power and great glory as the glory and honor of the nations shall be brought into it. He shall beautify the place of His sanctuary (He makes His abode in us) by the kings of the earth bringing their glory and honor into it.

(24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
(25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

(26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

He will make the place of His feet glorious. He will beautify the place of His sanctuary…of His abode…as the glory and honor of the earth shall be brought to Him/us. We are the "city of the LORD."

Isa 60:13-14 KJV
(13) The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.


The sons of the man-based churches (those that will have afflicted us and despised us) shall come bending unto us....calling us the "city of the LORD."

(14) The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Indiana Senate Republicans reject Trump’s redistricting push

But the USA is not a African Banana Republic - is it?

Of course not, the USA has not bananas, nor is it in Africa. (Banana republics are in Central America and fruit companies no longer control any nations.
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Weekly homilies

Homily, Saturday, December 13 2025



Sirach 48:1-4, 9-11

“How awesome are you, Elijah! Whose glory is equal to yours?”



Elijah was a friend of God; he received Him from within.



Matthew 17:10-13

“Also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands.”



Let’s learn how to recognize the beauty of God in a person.



Biblical texts: NAB-RE

Normand Thomas.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

Thanks for sharing with you. I like having discussions with civil manners. Yeah, people IMHO have their own prerogative & aptitude to seek what they wish. I am a novice astrologer whose always in awe when witnessing the wonders of space. Just witnessing M31, Saturn, Jupiter all point to a Divine Maker. Physics or natural laws all also point to a designer. I am now studying Quantum Physics & Micro Biology: Human Cells (Mitosis).

All that being said, doesn't reveal what God has accomplished in His Son for His people. The historical record of the eschatological consummation of God's Redemptive Plan is what I am interested in. That to me is more awe taking that anything else I have read. I am only sharing with you.

Thanks again for sharing.​

You're welcome. Thank you for also sharing your thoughts on these matters in turn. I appreciate your brotherly composure. :cool:
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Donald Trump Says US To Launch Land Action in Venezuela ‘Very Soon’

Reuters reports the administration has a list of sanctioned oil tankers that could be interdicted in the coming days. Oil tanker operators are starting to suspend previously scheduled voyages from Venezuela.

The new U.S. tactic focuses on the activities of what is called the shadow fleet of tankers that transports sanctioned oil to China, the largest buyer of crude from Venezuela and Iran. A single vessel will often make separate runs on behalf of Iran, Venezuela and Russia, the sources added.



One other note: The U.S. Coast Guard, with Navy resources, led the interdiction. I suppose blowing up a loaded oil tanker was a bridge too far.
No the tanker grab was a professional operation. Blowing up the narco boats was just a side show Trump put on for his Christian supporters.
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Stephen Miller Says Trump White House Has Offered to Put Him on CNN at ‘Any Time’ to Respond to Their Numerous Lies But They Won’t Have Him On (VIDEO)

I have asked that people not demonize their political opponents, and I am asking again. Name-calling is typically because of a lack of substance to an argument. Although a bit further back than President Trump's, Stephen Miller's (a family man with three children) ancestry is one of immigration. Miller, like Trump, is concerned about the children lost under the Biden administration, concerned about the victims of horrible crimes perpetrated by unvetted and illegal immigrants allowed into our country by the Biden administration, and concerned about the damage that has been done by letting in large populations that do not care for America and wish to keep allegiance to their countries of origin. Conservatives want LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who respect our laws, love America and our way of life, and have a desire to assimilate into our culture.

Name-calling, whether in politics or daily interactions, is generally regarded as a sign of weakness. Individuals who resort to profanity often appear to lack the knowledge to express their opinions or frustrations in a more articulate and constructive manner.

In this millennium, political discourse has visibly deteriorated, with politicians openly accusing each other of lying, warmongering, and using other insults.

it doesn’t help when political leader call other politician name like : Little Marco, Crooked Hilary, Sleepy Joe, “lying Ted”, “Pocahontas” , “Crazy Nancy”, “Shifty Schiff” ,
“Ron DeSanctimonoius” , and many more names!

Name-calling does nothing to improve politics, and voters who back these politicians but tell others not to name-call reveal their own hypocrisy.

If, as a regular voter, I want to improve our political system, it begins with choosing not to support politicians who behave provocatively. I cannot vote multiple times for a candidate who consistently resorts to provocative language when referring to opponents or reporters, and then, without irony, calls for civility among Americans.
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Do You believe In Ghosts/Spirits ?

I've recounted this heaps of times but my father turned up in my bedroom the night he died. We argued and talked, and at the end he gave this almighty scream and disappeared. Something was coming for him.

But I wouldn't call him a "ghost". To my mind I wa allowed to see his spirit, while I have this conception of "ghosts" that they hang around and haunt specific locations.

When the disciples saw Christ walking on the water, they were terrified and thought He was a ghost. Christ did nothing to dispel the possibility of ghosts existing, but merely affirmed he was 'not a ghost'.

In my last job in community driving, one of the fares said she had a similar experience. Her husband was in hospital being kept alive by machines as he'd had a brain embolism. The staff had already told her that the next day they were going to turn off the machines and if he couldn't breathe, he'd die.

So she knew that. But that night she said something white sat on the bed. She said she was freaking out, and wondered what the hell was going on. Then this white thing spoke.

It was her husband. He apologised to her for his abusive treatment. What else might have been said I don't know as I didn't have time to pursue the story. But she told me her eldest daughter had the same experience.

She said he was easily most abusive to the eldest daughter out of all the children, and sat on the foot of the bed and apologised to her as well on the night he died.

I was seeing a psychiatrist for a few years. It started due to depression but that was fixed by Prozac. I kept going though as we shared some similar spiritual experiences. Now I'd only see him once every fhree to five months as it wasn't urgent, but one session he said "Something strange happened last weekend!"

I asked him what it was.

He said he was in a Catholic Church when they announced a parishioner had died that morning. However she had also been one of his patients.

He said "She was in the church!" He could see her and said she seemed to be trying to get his attention. She gave up after a while (it's not exacatly a good idea to talk to a spirit in church if you're the only one who is allowed to see her), and moved to the other side of the church.

He thought she might have had family on that side of the church.

Now I'd often told him about my father turning up, along with some other spiritual shenanigans, but he had his "ghostly" experince the very weekend before I was due to come in for my next appointment ie. "last weekend".

I suppose you might say the memory would have been very fresh in his mind at the time.

I've got no doubt we all have spirits, and there are "ghosts" who for one reason or another might be doing their purgatory in a certain place, so they're stuck there.

Spirits exist - every single one of us has a spirit, and there are ghosts. As Christ said walking on the water, he was "not a ghost" implying ghosts exist.

In an account I read some years ago, a chap said his grandmother died. He tried to tell his brother as he knew they were very close, but was unable to at the time. Later he told his brother who informed him he already knew.

He asked him how he knew. He said she visited him the night she died, and sat on the foot of the bed.

The only problem was that the brother was on a New Zealand naval vessel at the time somewhere out in the Pacific Ocean.

They exist all right.
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Jordan Peterson Health Update: Family Remains Hopeful About Recovery

He has reminded people of the psychological power of the Christian story in establishing fruitful and foundational archetypes for Western civilization. Praying he recovers from his illness with a clearer declaration of faith on his lips.
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Violent mob attacks Christian families inside church, try to force pastor to teach about Hindu gods

NEW DELHI — When a Hindu extremist mob assaulted Christian men, women and children during a church service in India in late September, police jailed the pastor and charged him and four other Christians, sources said.

In Rajasthan state’s Hanumangarh District, several Hindu women intruded into the church building in Nohar city, followed by Hindu men, young and old, at about 10 a.m. on Sep. 28, as the congregation was singing in worship, said 45-year-old Pastor Wazir Singh.

“They let the Hindu women take the forefront. Hindu women attacked Christian women and Hindu men attacked Christian men,” Pastor Singh told Morning Star News following his release from jail on Oct. 4.

The mob forced Pastor Singh to sit and demanded he teach about Hindu deities such as Rama and Ganesha instead of Christ and read to the congregation passages from the Ramayana or Mahabharata Hindu scriptures instead of the Bible, he said. When he responded, “My faith is in Jesus Christ, and my country gives me the right to choose whom I want to believe in and freedom to practice my faith,” they called police and had him arrested.

Continued below.

Was interested in how the Muslims in the prison defended the Pastor against the Hindu inmates. Hindutva intolerance is growing for non-Indian religions and the Bollywood Hindu propaganda films are getting more and more non historical and unreal
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Nostalgia and Advent

It wasn’t until the early twentieth century that the word nostalgia took on its present meaning: a fond remembrance of the way things used to be, tinged with sadness that things are no longer so.

Just Build a Better You

Change is always possible with God’s help. Lifeless faith can be revived, hopeless situations can be given meaning, cold and hardened hearts can be warmed by love. We do not have to be imprisoned in our sinfulness; God sent His Son to offer us freedom. We are all invited and challenged to reform our lives—and Jesus makes this possible.

I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

But we're not talking about electric current here, are we? God created. There was and is nothing that is not a result of that.

The principle is the same and you're side-skirting the issue so you don't have to answer. You can't just say that because God is involved then no logic applies.

No. Only by your parameters.

By anyone's parameters if they make an honest analysis of the situation.

I looked. I see nowhere I proclaimed as true that man is the prime mover in his deeds.

False as the day is long. You continue in your notion of man as prime mover in his deeds.
- False that man is the prime mover in his deed. So I am not able to make my own choice.

You indeed do WILL to do what you do, and that, by what you deem more advantageous or desirous.
- You will do what you do...by what you deem more more advantageous or desirous. Now I am the prime mover after all, therefore now my initial statement is true and somehow I can make my own choice..

You choose according to your inclinations.
- Again I am making a choice according to my inclinations. Further solidifying that my initial position is true.

So the second two sentences contradict the first.

No. If he caused it, and that is reality, then whatever is real within that reality is caused by God. To characterize something within that reality as uncaused is therefore logically self-contradictory.

I am not disputing cause. I am disputing the logical incoherence that causing something that you know the result of can result in any effect that is not pre-determined, and if it is pre-determined then it is logically incoherent to suggest that anyone besides the causer has any choice.

No, I do not claim that God does not (nor that he does) have that ability. I claim it is logical nonsense, a figment of the imagination, words playing in the mind of presumptuous humans.

I did not intend "the source of choice" there. I intended the source of the ability to choose Christ, and the source of salvific Faith.

Oh, but you are making a claim. You just don't realize it.

Which is it? A or B?

A. I have a choice whether to follow God.
B. God already knows whether I will choose to follow him or not.

If God knows that I will follow him, then there is no reality where I will not follow him. Conversely if he knows I will not follow him, then there is no reality where I do follow him. You cannot say both, because to quote from you, it is logical nonsense.
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How to Eradicate Envy

Envy, according to the classical definition, is sadness at another’s good fortune. Envy, which is the second of the Deadly Sins, robs one of the joy he could share with another person’s gifts. God grants people His gifts to please the recipient, but also to be shared with others. We should rejoice when anyone displays God’s gifts.

The Story of Our Lady of Guadalupe

On December of 1531 a series of Marian apparitions occurred that changed the world as we know it. The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to a middle-aged man named Juan Diego at the climax of civil unrest in present-day Mexico. Our Blessed Mother’s providential intervention not only thwarted blood shed but in effect brought about the greatest evangelization event in Christian history!

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Second Week of Advent (Immaculate Conception of Blessed Virgin Mary)

December 12, 2025

Our Morning Offering – 12 December – Our Lady of Guadalupe,Mystical Rose By St Pius X (500 Days Indulgence)


One Minute Reflection – 12 December – ‘ … We pray thee, tell us what feelings moved thee …’

Our Lady of Guadalupe propers & commentary (EF)

Our Lady of Guadalupe propers & commentary (EF)

Feria (Second Sunday of Advent) (EF) propers

Friday of the Second Week of Advent (Gueranger) (EF)

Our Lady of Guadalupe readings & commentary (OF)

Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe readings & commentary (OF)
Other Commemorations: St. Finnian, Abbot

Daily Gospel

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mother and Mystery

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Saints of the Day

Sermons for Everyday Living - Our Lady of Guadalupe 12/12/25

Audio version of Gueranger
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Novena to St. Lucy For Eye Health & Spiritual Sight

12/12/25 Day 9

O St. Lucy, whose name proclaims the radiance of light, we approach you with humble confidence to seek your holy intercession. Obtain for us, through your prayers, that sacred illumination which guides our souls away from the shadows of sin and leads us toward the brightness of virtue.

Obtain for us also these petitions which we offer to you in this novena:

[Mention your petitions now]

We beseech you, St. Lucy, through your powerful advocacy before the throne of the Lamb, the protection of our eye sight, and for the grace to employ our eyes always in service of God’s glory and never for that which offends His divine majesty.

Help us to perceive with clarity the truths of our faith and the needs of our neighbor, that we may walk steadfastly in the light of Christ and labor earnestly for the salvation of souls.

Pray for us, St. Lucy, that having honored you as our advocate in this earthly pilgrimage, we may one day behold with you the eternal splendor of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ our Lord, in whose divine light all shadows flee away forever. Amen.

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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

My eyes read the Hebrew and the Hebrew for lust isn’t used in relation to Eve.
See previous.
I’ve made a Herculean of the logical, identify the Hebrew word used, discern its meaning, use a Lexicon and Bible dictionary, and conclude the Hebrew text isn’t using the word “list.”
Desire/lust

It doesn't take a leap of any scholastic sorts
Maybe your “eyes” need to focus upon the what the Hebrew text says, rather than what you want the Hebrew to say.
I read the originals same as you

More pressing to the point of the opening post, all have sin and sin is of the devil.

Perhaps you can put that in your Hebrew attempts to personally apply?
Your interpretation is vacuous, not supported by Hebrew of the OT, Koine Greek of the NT, and you did not refute my objections to your view and my prior post remains unrebutted by you.
Vacous claim on your part. Sorry. Not taking the appeal to separate lust from desire on any basis
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Discussion The Christ as Father of Eternity has not been fully glorified?

Jesus Christ our Lord rose from the dead, ascended and was glorified. But fully glorified? For Jesus is as in Isaiah 9:6. He is the father of time and should know the end from the beginning, but the bridegroom does not know the time of his wedding, but only his father according to Jewish traditions.

And about the prophets before us. Hebrews 11:40.

The verse says:

“God having provided something better for us, so that apart from us they should not be made perfect.”
Hebrews 11:40
Meaning:
The Old Testament prophets and faithful saints (“they”) will not receive their final perfection, glory, or completion without us — that is, without the whole people of God across all ages. The author of Hebrews is emphasizing that the consummation happens together, at the resurrection and final glorification.

Related idea​

Paul teaches a similar “together in glory” theme:

  • 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 – The dead in Christ rise first, then living believers join them together.
  • Romans 8:17–23 – Glorification and redemption of the body happen for all God's children at once.

Perhaps Jesus full glorification will come with us altogether ? Prophets like Moses, Elijah and Ezekiel may be fully sanctified and partly glorified. As Jesus in Revelation, is crowned, with all glory, and honour and power... Revelation 1:5-6, 5:13, 7:12, but it does not say knowledge and that He again knows all and the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. But even now His body is immortal and glorious and glory shines from His face with vast intensity. 2 Corinthians 4:6.

We may be awaiting the wedding feast of the Lamb for glorification, all together like a graduating class. And after us a new class starts.

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