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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The rise of menace as a mainstream political tool

Arrest made in connection with New Jersey Election Day bomb threats

Some polling sites in NYC also fielded what officials called "swatting" threats.

It was not immediately clear whether the subject of the arrest -- a juvenile -- was also responsible for Election Day threats made against other locations.

Multiple polling places temporarily closed Tuesday morning in Northern New Jerseyafter precincts received emailed bomb threats later deemed to be not credible, prompting election officials to direct some voters to other polling places.

The threatening emails went to polling locations in New Jersey's Bergen County, Essex County, Mercer County, Middlesex County, Monmouth County, Ocean County, and Passaic County, officials said.

During the 2024 election, bomb threats called into polling stations in key swing states prompted widespread delays in voting. The FBI later said the threats likely originated from Russia.
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'Maybe time to persecute you': Man charged with threatening Catholic school over Holocaust float

A man has been charged with threatening a Catholic school in Pennsylvania that garnered controversy for creating a parade float that included Holocaust imagery.

Joseph Gilleo II, a 28-year-old resident of Bucks County, is facing charges after leaving a threatening voice message for St. Joseph’s Catholic School of Hanover.

According to authorities, Gileo threatened the school in response to its Halloween parade float that featured imagery referencing the Holocaust that many found offensive.

Charging documents stated that Gilleo allegedly called school officials “Nazi sympathizing” and “psychopaths,” adding that he believes God “will not save you from what happens next.”

Continued below.

Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

My post was to point out that I believe it's Christ's rest that we enter into today and not just one day of the week.
We enter in by belief that God ceased from HIs works, and declared a holy day/sanctification/all was very good, Christ did the works of the Father then ceased from HIs works, sanctified Himself that we may also be sanctified by the truth.


Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Letita Jamews indicted for fraud

Halligan cannot decide her comments are off the record after the fact, that's Journalism 101.
What if you (or your boss) has access to Obama's time machine?

'Making up new rules': Legal experts mock Trump DOJ over latest 'fatally flawed' move

The Department of Justice on Monday submitted a filing in the cases of former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James defending the appointment of interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan. But multiple attorneys, professors and journalists are blasting the DOJ in what they view as a last-ditch attempt to keep Halligan in her role.

Reuters reporter Brad Heath posted to Bluesky on Monday that Attorney General Pam Bondi claimed to have "retroactively appointed former Trump attorney Lindsey Halligan as a 'special attorney' for DOJ and has 'ratified' all of her actions to date, including her presentations to the grand juries that indicted Trump's foes." Legal journalist Chris Geidner posted the DOJ filing [filed November 3rd]and the appointment while quipping that Bondi "dressed up as a lawyer on Halloween."

1762293370928.png


She said "hereby". It must be legit.
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How do you view UFOS and Abduction stories then?

if they exist and are demonic though, we all should be well informed on their schemes and plans

Best to not go down that road, not unprepared at least.

Many have been conned, truth cannot die, if anyone is one with truth they cannot die either, they pass on.

It is all a part of this worlds falseness.

Today there is a flood of information, both from above and below.

Best is in all simpleness to seek to have clean hands and a pure heart.
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What game are you most looking forward to?

I guess...

Destiny 2 (I guess I will keep playing this game)
Dying Light: The Beast (Features 4-player campaign co-op)
Borderlands 4 (I hope it isn't like part 3 which was pretty bad)
Towerborne (Any new DLC would be nice for this one!)
Battlefield 6 (Beta was a blast!)
The Blood of Dawnwalker (From the Devs behind The Witcher games)
The Elder Scrolls 6
Fallout 5
The Last Ronin (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game)


I also really want more casino games to be released so there’s always something new to try, and it’s a good reminder that managing your money safely is important too, which is why I found this guide on New Zealand bank codes useful https://newzealandbanks.co.nz/codes/ because just like checking rules in a game, verifying bank information helps you avoid mistakes or fraud especially if you use that account for games.
Fallout is one of my favourite game series, and I can't wait for a new one.
And I'm really looking forward to GTA 6
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Well, off we go

I wonder how many Leopards ate my face stories and how quickly we will be hearing them.

‘I’m angry with my president:’ Trump voters in Florida confront the fallout of his policies a year before the midterms

The consequences will be felt especially hard in Miami-Dade County, where the shift of the Latino vote from Democrat to Republican was key to Trump’s victory last year. Here, about 215,000 households (about 24%) rely on SNAP, one of the highest rates in the country. In other words, more than half a million people.

Alexis Maria, a 35-year-old single mother born in West Palm Beach who works as a doctor’s assistant, is among them. She says she voted for Trump because she thought he would be a better leader. “The last time Trump was president, I made more money than ever in my career. Prices were low. Gasoline was cheap. I remember going on vacation. Interest rates were lower. Now everything is out of control. I can’t even afford the air we breathe. Now I see that I made the wrong decision,” she says.

Alexis has been receiving food stamps since her first child was born. She has two children, ages 12 and six. “The government is the reason we’ve been able to eat most of the month, and the other half, I’m counting each cent to survive, what with food prices and rent,” she says.

Alexis says she has been looking for information about places where they donate food, such as churches and aid organizations, and has even had to miss work to be able to go get food. “Now I need to go three times a week to feed my family, and the lines every week have been longer. This sums up why I’m angry with the president. His decisions are now [adversely] affecting the lower and middle class. They only benefit the rich,” she says.

But not all Republican voters are disappointed. Some, like Kimberly Delgado, 28, maintain their support for Trump despite the difficulties they face. A resident of Weston, northeast of Miami, Delgado says that although she works at a funeral home and her husband also works full-time, they can’t afford to feed their two children, and they have been receiving food stamps for four years. Delgado was born in the U.S. to Cuban parents and she assumes that the situation with the government shutdown is going to be difficult for many like them — people who work full-time and yet still need help due to the rising cost of living.
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Is purgatory a Biblical or extra biblical teaching?

< sigh >

Read it again. . .

His work will be tested with fire, not the man, and the man whose work does not survivie will receive no reward, which reward does not refer to salvation.
Purgatory has nothing to do with salvation. Only the saved go there.
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US Attorney's Office for SDNY was running an active investigation into Epstein and Maxwell's co-conspirators until it was killed by Trump's DOJ in Jan

House Democrats press DOJ for details on Epstein co-conspirators probe that was "inexplicably killed"

The demand comes amid relentless bipartisan interest in the investigation, which has dogged the Justice Department's top officials as they've sought to put the matter to rest. Some in the Trump administration, including Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel, promised major revelations into the Epstein matter before taking office, only to indicate later that the case was closed.

In the letter, Raskin said almost 50 survivors provided information to prosecutors and FBI agents as part of the investigation that ultimately led to the indictments of Epstein in 2019 and Ghislaine Maxwell in 2020. Raskin said the information the survivors provided was "precise and detailed."

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York was running an active investigation into Epstein and Maxwell's co-conspirators until January 2025, when prosecutors were directed to transfer the Epstein case files to the Justice Department's headquarters, in what Raskin said was "a sudden and dramatic shift in the posture of the investigation." Since then, "the investigation into co-conspirators has inexplicably ceased," he said, citing information provided to the Judiciary Committee by attorneys who represent Epstein survivors.

During the hearing, Rep. Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican who has led an effort to force a vote in the House on releasing the Epstein files, pointed to 20 alleged co-conspirators.

"According to victims who cooperated with the FBI in that investigation, these documents in FBI possession, your possession, detail at least 20 men, including Mr. Jes Staley, CEO of Barclays Bank," Massie said, referring to a banker who left Barclays in 2021 amid scrutiny over his ties to Epstein. Staley, who worked with Epstein for years as a top official at J.P. Morgan, has said they had a "close professional relationship." Staley has denied wrongdoing and said he regrets befriending Epstein.

Massie said other high-profile figures were among those named by Epstein's victims.

"That list also includes at least 19 other individuals — one Hollywood producer worth a few hundred million dollars, one royal prince, one high-profile individual in the music industry, one very prominent banker, one high-profile government official, one high-profile former politician, one owner of a car company in Italy, one rockstar, one magician, at least six billionaires, including a billionaire from Canada," Massie said.
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Trump administration must release billions in SNAP funds, judge says

There's still the GI Bill.
I spoke too soon.

VA tech glitch halts GI Bill payments to thousands, advocates say

Two months after an IT hiccup at the Department of Veterans Affairs left a significant portion of GI Bill recipients without their anticipated payments for school and housing, some advocates have a message for the VA: Turn the GI Bill hotline back on.

“VA deployed a new benefit delivery system in August and anticipated having the ability to pay staff overtime and deploy automation solutions as needed to ensure a smooth transition and process fall enrollments on a timely basis,” Peter Kasperowicz, a VA spokesman, told Military Times in an emailed statement. “When the Democrats’ shutdown hit [two months after the system was deployed] VA was deprived of these resources.”

“The shutdown is not the cause of this, and it needs to be very clear that the reason that this happened is because VA’s infrastructure failed, and they chose not to tell us until after the shutdown started,” [Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann, director of Government and Legislative Affairs for the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors.] said. “VA could have told us in August.”

Will Hubbard, the vice president for Veterans and Military Policy at the organization Veterans Education Success and an architect of the current “Forever GI Bill,” has been tracking the nonpayment issue closely since he was alerted to the problem by congressional staff.

“There’s been no mass communications plan; there’s no press release; there’s no public anything,” Hubbard said. “And that’s really been a fundamental issue.”

Transparency!
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Special Counsel Report Says Trump Would Have Been Convicted in Election Case

Watchdog pushes for release of Jack Smith’s Trump report

The public has still not seen special counsel Jack Smith's full report on Trump's handling of classified documents​

American Oversight, a non-partisan watchdog group, has filed a petition for a writ of mandamus with the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, asking the court to vacate Cannon’s gag order and allow the documents to be released. Under the current gag order, the documents are exempt from Freedom of Information Act requests.

Appeals court finds ‘undue delay’ in Cannon’s handling of litigation over Jack Smith report

A judicial panel gave the Florida judge, who presided over Trump’s classified documents case, 60 more days to rule on long-pending release motions.

On Monday, the federal appeals court that covers Florida issued an order putting Cannon on a two-month clock to rule. In a one-page order, a three-judge panel noted that the Trump-appointed trial judge has had release motions pending before her [for] months, but that she “has not ruled or conducted any other further proceedings on the pending motions.”

Transparency!
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Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

Trial starts in (misdemeanor) assault case against D.C. man who tossed sandwich at federal agent

U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols, who was nominated to the bench by Trump, said he expects the trial to last no more than two days “because it’s the simplest case in the world.”

[Defense lawyer points to Jan6 pardons and assault case dismissals to argue this is selective prosecution.]

Per
‪@jamieson.bsky.social‬


The defense team presses Lairmore on whether the sandwich really 'exploded.'
They return to the photo of the sandwich and wrapper on the ground.
"That sandwich hasn't exploded at all, has it?" defense asks.
"It looks like a little bit is coming out towards the bottom," Lairmore replies.

--

Lairmore testifies that other agents gave him a plush sandwich toy, which he placed on the shelf in his office, and a patch that said "Felony Footlong," which he put on his lunch box.
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Curious as to what precisely makes Full-Preterism considered an non orthodox heresy?

Like this you mean?
I agree with some and disagree with some.
Can you explain how salvation came before the cross? Otherwise, how would anyone be resurrected and go to heaven unless they've been saved. But Hebrews tells us that salvation hadn't yet been consummated at the time of its being written.
or, Christ being the first to rise from the dead? If His resurrection is about His physical resurrection, we know others were physically resurrected before Him.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
Colossians 1:18
And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

Acts 26:23
that the Christ would suffer, and as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to our people and to the Gentiles.”

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood,
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Police investigating Cybertruck explosion at Trump hotel in Las Vegas as possible act of terror

‘WAKE UP!’ Read the Trump Hotel Bomber’s Chilling Messages Calling on ‘Militias’ to ‘Purge’ D.C. of Democrats

Try peaceful means first, but be prepared to fight to get the Dems out of the fed government and military by any means necessary. They all must go and a hard reset must occur for our country to avoid collapse.

-MSG Matt Livelsberger 18Z, 10th Special Forces Group

Mystery deepens over Special Forces soldier who blew up Cybertruck outside Trump Las Vegas hotel

The 70-page Las Vegas Metropolitan Police post-crime dossier confirmed that Matthew Livelsberger, a 37-year-old active member of the elite Green Berets, left a “manifesto” on his phone, although the Department of War has deemed it classified and will not release it.

He left behind a note claiming the attack wasn’t terror-related but a way for the soldier to “cleanse” his mind — while blasting the “feckless leadership” of a US that is “near collapse,” authorities said.

I mean, there'd be a lot less mystery of the Department of War would be more transparent. But the quoted link gives us some hints.
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The "Church Fathers" Scriptural or Not

MOD HAT ON

This thread is permanently closed.​

It doesn’t really fit with the idea of discussing the Church Fathers from a historical perspective, which is what this section is for. General Theology might be a better place for this discussion, but I’m not sure it’s really allowed even there, as goading Orthodox Christians and Catholics by bashing their history is not a good idea.​

MOD HAT OFF

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WHERE DO YOU STAND IN. YOUR LIFE TODAY AS 1 COR 3:12 AS WRITTEN BY PAUL. ??

# 1. NOW //. DE is. a CONJUNCATION

# 2. IF. //. EI. , is a CONDITIONAL PARTICLE

# 3. ANY MAN. // TIS , is an. Indefinite. Pronoun. .in. the NOMINATIVE CASE in the SIGNULAR

# 4. BUILD. //. EPOIKODOMEO. , is in the PRESENT TENSE. , in. the ACTIVE VOICE . is a INDICATIVE MOOD. in. the SIGNULAR

# 5. UPON //. EPI. is a PREPOSITION

# 6 THIS. // TOUTON. , is a DEMONSTRATIVE. PRONOUN. is. an. ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR

# 7. FOUNDATION. //. THEMELIOS. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR

# 8 GOLD. //. CHRYSOS. in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SIGNULAR

# 9. SLIVER // ARGYROS. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE. in. the SIGNULAR

#10. PRECIOUS //. TIMIOS. in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE

# 11. STONES. //. LITHOS , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE in. the PLURAL

# 12. WOOD. // XYLON. is a ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the PLURAL. and in. the NEUTER

# 13. HAY //. CHORTOS. a ACCUSATIVE CASE. in the SIGULAR

# 14. STUBBLE. //. KALAMO. , in. the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in. the SINGULAR


# A GOLD // signifies. ROYALTY. or HOLINESS

# B SLIVER. // signifies. REDEMPTION

# C. PRECIOUS. STONES. //. signifies. SPIRITUAL. TRUTH.

# D WOOD. //. signifies. SALVATION

# E. GRASS. //. signifies. MORTALITY. and FLEETING LIFE

# F. SRAW. // signifies FRAILTY. or WORTHLESS.

So where do you STAND. at the BEMA SEAT ??

dan p

Bioluminescence

ChatGPT is your friend (for now). Ask it about Left wing science denial. There's much more than the denial that biologically men and women are different.
Oh...i DEFINITELY know left wingers who reject certain kinds of science (specifically health related, primarily).
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What genre is Job?

We have to trust & *believe* that the Scriptures were inspired. And that some of the stuff which there seems to be no eye-witness to was revealed through the power of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, you'd have to reject a good portion of the Bible if you only say you're going to accept eye-witness testimony for everything it contains.
I am not saying we should reject it. But reevaluate whether it should be taken literally as if it was historic narrative, or figuratively like a parable.
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Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

Your engagement in this discussion has been more assertive and accusatory than substantive interaction with anything I've actually laid out. If this conversation is to be productive, I would ask that your further comments focus on engaging the argument and the textual evidence directly.

Regarding your claim that "it is improper to place the time of action of present participles after the time of action of the main verb," I already answered this in posts #12 and #17. You did not meaningfully engage with either element of that answer. What I originally pointed out to you was that this principle you're wanting to invoke (that "present participles have the same time of action as the main verb," to use your original wording) is basically true in narrative or temporal discourse, but not in gnomic or didactic statements. It's pretty obvious why: in gnomic contexts, the main verb itself isn't describing a point in time. It expresses a timeless, axiomatic reality. That's what a gnomic/didactic statement is. So, when you universalize the rule, you're trying to attach a "time of action" to something that doesn't have one. It's like timing a definition with a stopwatch.

Additionally, from your "response" in post #15 until now, you have continued to introduce this confusion between logical relationship and temporal sequence. The OP itself distinguishes the two, clarifying that this isn't an argument for temporal sequence. You either missed or ignored that. I corrected you on it in post #17 when you misrepresented my position as concerning a chronological sequence of events. You ignored that too. Now, you're still ignoring it. You're caricaturing the argument to fit the objection you want to give. Do you understand the difference between logical and chronological relationships?

Another gnomic example (just one of many we could go to):

1 Peter 2:6 - "...the one believing (ὁ πιστεύων, present participle) in Him will not be put to shame (καταισχυνθῇ, aorist subjunctive)."​
The present participle describes the defining mark of those characterized by faith; the aorist subjunctive expresses the logical result of that: ultimate eschatological vindication. If the participle's "time" equals the main verb's, we're left with the nonsensical idea that one "believes" at the moment in time one "is not put to shame," as if faith occurs only simultaneously with final vindication.

I have not "wriggled around" on this point; my position has been consistent from the OP, as I've pointed out to you more than once. Go back and read it. The argument is that 1 John 5:1 expresses a logical, not temporal relationship between regeneration and faith. You're not addressing the point by repeatedly recasting it as a chronological objection.

You're not stating what problem you see here. These mean essentially the same thing. If two things occur simultaneously, there's no sequence in time. When I said that regeneration and faith may occur simultaneously in our temporal experience (as I noted in the OP to begin with), it was in response to your repeated discussion of temporal sequences. The point I was making is that timing is irrelevant to the argument. I am not making a chronological claim. My point from the start has been about logical priority, not temporal sequence. Nothing I have said contradicts that, so your claim that I'm arguing both ways is a misunderstanding of my position.

You are not reading my posts.

In post #17, I originally challenged this "faith after salvation" caricature of my argument by asking you directly: "Where have I argued for 'believing after salvation'?" You did not answer.

Instead, you simply doubled down on the caricature in your next reply, suggesting that I am "rearranging" grammar "to say that trust in Christ does not come before salvation" (my emphasis).

In post #30, I pointed out that you did not address my question. I then explained the reason for asking it, and how your wording misunderstands/misrepresents my position. You did not answer or acknowledge.

Instead, in your next reply, you went right back to the language of temporal experience ("you are arguing for a reality that we do not experience"), continuing to ignore my repeated clarifications that the argument doesn't concern the question of temporal experience.

In post #36, I again pointed out your category confusion on this. No acknowledgement.

Instead, in your next reply, you shifted course entirely and took a personal experience approach, suggesting that you know my theology is off because your "alarm bells are going off." You chose not to engage at all with the content of my rebuttal to you.

Then, in verse #67, again, you repeat your caricature of my position: "there is no way to change the truth that God forgives sins and gives spiritual life to those who believe. It's not the other way around." (My emphasis). We're debating the logical priority of regeneration and faith, not the forgiveness of sins (justification).

And guess what? You've now done it again! "The fact is, you are arguing that faith in Christ comes after salvation." False. That is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that faith in Christ is logically subsequent to regeneration, not justification, final salvation, or the whole package. If you can't be honest about what it is I'm even saying, we have nothing to discuss.

I mean, they do. What more do you want me to say? You refuse to engage the content of my arguments in any meaningful attempt to show exegetically where I've erred. Do you expect me to just let you win a debate?
Let's look at two passages with the same gramatical structure.
  1. "Whoever believes (Present Active Participle) that Jesus is the Christ is born (Perfect Passive Indicative) of God" (1 Jn 5:1), and
  2. "the one who does not believe (Present Active Participle) God has made (Perfect Active Indicative) Him a liar" (1 Jn 5:10).
Your contention on the first is that being born again (logicaly?) preceeds believing based on the grammar.

So, to be consistent, you must also think that making Him a liar (logically?) preceeds not believing based on the same grammar. But you would be wrong because the rest of verse 10 explains that not believing God is what makes Him a liar (not believing (logically?) preceeds making Him a liar)...

the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed (Perfect Active Indicative) in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. (1 Jn 5:10)​

Honestly, I do not think you know that justification, sanctification, regeneration, passing from death to life, possessing eternal life, being joined to the Lord, being one spirit with Him, not facing judgement, etc. all occur simultaneously and are comletely dependent on Jesus coming to live in our hearts. Logically, they all exist if Jesus is in us, and none exist if He is not. Same is true for chronological order. None of them existed when Jesus was not present, and all of them exist with Him present. So, please do not read my dismissal of your argument that we must differentiate between logical precedence and chronological precedence as dishonesty. It is simply a rejection of your premise.

And you are making points that require a great deal of effort to investigate and refute. And honestly, the effort required makes it impossible to address all your points.
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