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Hell As Purgative?

I am not Orthodox, but have done much research about Orthodoxy. Based upon what I have read, some Orthodox believe that the dead receive a conditional sentence when they die, but that no sentence is final until the second coming of Jesus. Based upon this assumption then, some Orthodox believe that it is possible for at least some of those who are destined now to go to Hell, may eventually have their sentences changed and that they at least have a chance to still end up in Heaven. How common said belief is in Orthodoxy I was unable to discern. I did run across though an interesting discussion once between an EO and an OO. The Oriental Orthodox person explained that they do not hold to such a belief. Army Matt, can you tell us how common the belief is within Eastern Orthodoxy that it might be possible for souls now destined for Hell, to have their sentences changed, up to the point of the second coming, as at that point sentences are considered final? Is this view a minority or majority position within Eastern Orthodoxy? Is it true that the Oriental Orthodox do not consider such a position to be valid?
I don’t know how common a belief it is, and I am not non-Chalcedonian so I don’t know their position. what I can say is that it is taught by St Mark of Ephesus, St Joseph the hesychast, St Xenia of St Petersburg, Fr Seraphim Rose, Fr Stephen De Young, etc.
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

The word ἑλκύω explains decisive movement. Any failure of the act would be on the part of the subject's weakness, not the object's resistance.
ChatGpt:

"Greek (like English) can still describe an attempted but unsuccessful act of ἑλκύω through context:​

> “They were not able to ἑλκύσαι the net” (John 21:6).

Here:

ἑλκύσαι still means “to draw (so as to move).”

οὐκ ἴσχυον (“were not able”) tells you they failed to accomplish it.

That failure does not redefine the verb’s meaning — the action type is still “drawing that would cause motion.”


ἑλκύω itself doesn’t specify who or what causes failure.

The sentence “He failed to ἑλκύω” merely says the drawing did not occur; it doesn’t tell you if that was because

the subject was too weak, or

the object was too resistant.

Those are interpretive possibilities, not grammatical facts."​
What I'm arguing is that the Father's drawing does not fail. It can't.
I don't think you can get this strictly from grammer, rather you need to look at the context.
Again, notice what the drawing is: the operative verb is δύναται ("is able"). It's negated by the substantive οὐδεὶς ("no one"). No one is able. That is what the drawing of the Father is a remedy for: man's inability. So to say that the Father can fail to draw a person is to say that the Father can fail to make it possible for them to come. Man's resistibility is not a factor in this because the whole point of the drawing is that man has no capacity to come anyway. To say that man can successfully resist the Father's drawing would be to say that the Father can try to make it possible for someone to come to Christ, and the recipient say, "no, I refuse to allow that possibility." Man has no say in whether he is able to do something. Ability/inability is a function of our nature.

In other words, saying that man can resist the Father's drawing misunderstands what the Father's drawing is in John 6:44. What would that resistance look like? If we say that someone could reply, "I refuse to act on God's enablement by coming to Christ," that's not a resistance of the Father's drawing. Rather, it presupposes that the Father's drawing has already succeeded: they are able to come.

Now... as a separate issue, beyond the semantics of ἑλκύω, I would argue from the grammar of John 6:44 that the Father's drawing (enabling) leads necessarily to coming, because the "him" drawn is grammatically the same individual as the "him" raised. Thus, the Father's drawing is effectual in not only enabling sinners to come to Christ, but ensuring that they will do so. However, that is an implication of pronouns of the verse, not of ἑλκύω's meaning or function itself.
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Failing community college

Well, it was fine until I got to loop statements, especially the for loops and nested links loops. Like, I understand them in theory, but have a hard time parsing what I am seeing and the code ends up not turning out right regardless of what I try.

I'm trying to learn programming on my own, and I've also hit a bit of a brick wall with loop statements. My main textbook keeps throwing different kinds of loops at me, when it should probably stick to one or two kinds for a while.

I might mess around with different books and tutorials, as well as my own experimentation for a while. I also think I have ADHD or something similar
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Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Here is the gospel:


Jeremiah 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
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Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

We live by the scriptures, by believing in what they testify, when we do not have the Spirit of Christ we are dead, not living.

Also when questions and contentions and strivings about the law are all that replaces the scriptures they reject, we are instructed what to bring to them



Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
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Prayer Request: Strength and Good Health for This Week

Gracious Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus,
I pray for strength for Jane at work, this week, as You have given her almost twice the workload to do. Hold her body together so she has good health, and help her to accomplish what needs to be done.

I pray that she may find favor among her colleagues so that they may help her during this time, just like she has found favor with and earned the trust of this superior (I thank You that she has earned that). Guard her from envy and backbiting, and help her to discharge her boss’s duties and take care of her people.

In Christ’s Name,
Amen
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prayer for suicide attempt

Good grief.

Gracious Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus,
I pray for healing for these young women, both in body and in mind. Help them to turn away from things that have enslaved them, sins that are eating away at them. I pray for them to have people in their lives who will encourage them to turn to You as the source of comfort and joy and love and self-discipline, rather than to the world and its self destructive solutions.
In Christ’s Name,
Amen
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Anyone up for a chat thread?

It's going to be a big adjustment to go from being "in charge" of a parish to a very different sort of role, and it's a whole new context and set of relationships, but so far I'm hoping that it will work out well.
Jesus, please be with Paidiske and help her work out her new place serving You.
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The Pharisees are winning

I can give in to the temptation to look down on a hypocrite, and self-righteously judge the person.
I don't think Jesus looked down on the Pharisees when he called them out. Did Paul. Was it Paul who called the Pharisees or High Priests 'white washed walls'. I know he called out false teachers and sinners.

Can we call out lies or deciet without being a hypocrite. Is there a difference.
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I can't stop feeling "less than" other Catholics

A convert is someone who had to overcome a lot to become Catholic. Cradle Catholics, by comparison, had it all just handed to them. Where’s the virtue in that? Yours was the more challenging path and kudos to you for taking it.
I agree. And as a cradle Catholic I can say that converts seem to be much more knowledgeable about our faith. Or at least in my case.
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University of California campuses mandate gender ideology training to register for classes

Intersex could.
Intersexed does not count, because by definition they are not raised as men in male bodies then just sporting a dress and demanding access to anything, intersexed people are scientifically identifiable as mixed gender.
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We're Not All The Same

The Church Under Fire

Chapter Three

We’re Not All the Same

May 27, 2023

Acts 21,22,23 and Acts 24:1-23 Summary

The apostle Paul was now in Jerusalem, and he was being accused by some Jews of things he did not do. And so the tribune arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains. And he was placed in some barracks. But before that, he was given permission to speak and to give his defense. And so he took this opportunity to share his testimony. But when he mentioned how the Lord had sent him to the Gentiles, the people were in an uproar, and they wanted Paul dead.

Then there was a plot to murder Paul, but his nephew caught wind of it and informed Paul who then sent him to tell the tribune, who then sent Paul to the governor Felix. Then, after five days the high priest Ananias came down with some elders and a spokesman, Tertullus, who set their case before the governor against Paul. And then Paul was given permission to speak in his own defense. Then Felix decided to wait until later to decide Paul’s case, and so he ordered him to be kept in custody, but he gave him some liberties.

Now, what is standing out to me about this story relates to a situation I faced in my early 30’s, which I will share, but before that I want to share a couple of verses from Acts 24 that particularly jumped out at me. Paul said:

v. 13: “Neither can they prove to you what they now bring up against me.”

v. 16: “So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man.”

Since I have been reading through the book of Acts, I have been reminded of all of Paul’s suffering for the sake of the gospel, and the Lord is reminding me of the many ways in which I suffered, too, for the sake of the gospel, which all serve as examples of the kinds of sufferings we will face when we commit our lives to Jesus Christ and to his service. And a lot of this suffering will come from those within the gatherings of what is called “church,” and some from pastors and elders of these “churches,” too.

So, without further ado, I am going to share with you a situation in my life which serves as an example, not only of the condition of today’s church here in America, but of the kinds of sufferings we should be facing and/or will yet be facing the closer we get to the Lord’s return, and when we choose to follow Jesus in obedience to his commands, and when we desire to do what he has called us to do because we love him, and because we love our fellow humans, including the body of Christ, i.e. those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Suffering for the Gospel

So, the year was 1980. I was pregnant with our fourth child, and I had a prolapse of my uterus and bladder three months into pregnancy, which was extremely rare. By the time I was about five months pregnant I began having many contractions, so the doctor ordered me off of my feet for the remainder of the pregnancy, and our two youngest children had to be placed in daycare. So, I had a lot of time by myself to study the Scriptures and to draw close to my Lord in fellowship with him, and so that is what I did.

But at the end of that year (1980), after our youngest son was born, my husband lost his job, and so we moved back to our hometown which was about 700 miles away. And we returned to the church fellowship we had been attending before we moved 700 miles away from home.

Now it was 1981, and the pastor was preaching on Spiritual gifts, and he sent around papers for everyone to fill out listing what they believed their spiritual gifts were and what ministries they were interested in. The expectation was then that they would place us in an area of ministry. But after being back for a year, there was still no word. So, I contacted the pastor, and he came to our home, and I asked him why I had not heard anything, and then he told me the reasons were that I was (a list of false accusations against me that I don’t recall).

And then he said, “Would you say you have been crucified with Christ?” I answered, “Yes!,” and then he said, “I would say you haven’t!” Wow! And this man and I had never had a conversation before that I recall, so I don’t know where he was getting this idea. But I was crushed! And so I withdrew into my dream world and I escaped because I really believed this man had power over me that God could do nothing about, for I had been abused as a child by my father, and the Lord never rescued me from that abuse.

And then one day I was reading the story of Jonah to my children and the Lord convicted me that I was running away from his calling on my life, and that I needed to get back in there and fight this thing through. And so I contacted one of the elders who was a friend and he and some other elders came to our house and they accused me falsely of things I did not do and of attitudes that were not mine to possess, but which turned out to be their attitudes, and so they were judging me by themselves.

And they accused me of having earthly and unspiritual wisdom and of wanting to be seen of men. For they falsely assumed that because I wanted to serve my Lord in ministry that it must be because I wanted to be seen of men, for that was their reasons. And so, like Paul, I had to come to my own defense, and I had to declare to them that my motives were pure and that their accusations against me were not founded.

So next I went to see my friend whose husband was one of the elders, and we talked, and she came up with all kinds of things she thought might be the issue, but I knew wasn’t. And then, as if a lightbulb turned on inside her head she said, “Hon, I know what it is. It is a spirit of fear.” That spirit was oppressing me, so I asked if we could pray for deliverance, and we did, and I felt that spirit leave my presence.

After that, all these memories of my childhood began to surface, and I began to remember things I had forgotten because I was taught to forgive and to forget. But what I did was suppress the memory, but the pain of the abuse of my childhood was still impacting me. I asked my friend what to do, and she didn’t know, and she suggested I ask the pastor, and I said “No, he hates me!” So she called him, and he called me, and he apologized to me for how he treated me. And he said, “As your pastor, I am to be your spiritual father, but I have not been a very good one, but I want to be.” Wow!

Now he encouraged me, that as the memories surfaced, that I was to release them to God and to let him heal me, and so that is what I did. And later he apologized to me for himself and for the elders, admitting that they were threatened by me and my wisdom, which was from God, and that they were wrong about me. I accepted his apology, and we became friends.

Now, not all of my experiences ended that well, but what this experience is an example of is not only the kind of abuse that goes on inside church fellowships, coming from church leadership who falsely accuse people of what they did not do, but it is a warning to us against falsely judging others by our own selves, by our own thinking, and by our own personal prejudices, etc. For that is what they did to me.

So, if we are going to judge, we need to do it by God’s standards, and we need to have proof that someone is truly doing what is wrong. And we need to accept that God didn’t make us all the same.

Oh, to Be Like Thee, Blessed Redeemer

Lyrics by Thomas O. Chisholm, 1897
Music by W. J. Kirkpatrick, 1897


Oh, to be like Thee! Oh, to be like Thee,
Blessèd Redeemer, pure as Thou art;
Come in Thy sweetness, come in Thy fullness;
Stamp Thine own image deep on my heart.

Link to the whole book:

The Church Under Fire Book (edited).pdf

Video Recording of the Above:

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We’re Not All The Same
An Original Work / November 6, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

James Comey case: Ex-special counsel John Durham undercut case against James Comey in interview with prosecutors: Sources

Lawfare had a good piece on the case earlier this week.


Yesterday, the prosecution outlined its own case.

Spoiler alert: That case is unspeakably, breathtakingly devoid of merit. To see it laid out in all its patchwork threadbaredness is to gasp with embarrassment for the prosecutors who have presented this to an American court. It is to understand why no career prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia would work this case and why Interim U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan had to import two sacrificial lambs from North Carolina to litigate the matter.
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The Status Viatoris

I've been reading Josef Pieper a highly regarded Thomist Philosopher, though perhaps not very well known by Protestants.. Among his works is a trilogy on Faith, Hope and Love.

So in his book On Hope, he starts by talking about something I hadn't heard of before - the status viatoris.

Pieper explains it as follows:

To be a "viator" means to be "one on the way". The status viatoris is, then, the "condition or state of being on the way". Its proper antonym is status comprehensoris. One who has comprehended, encompassed, arrived, is no longer a viator, but a comprehensor. Theology has borrowed this word from one of Paul's epistles: "Brethren, I do not consider that I have laid hold [comprehendisse] of [the goal] already." (Phil 3:13) To be on the way, to be a viator means to be making progress towards eternal happiness; to have encompassed this goal, to be a comprehensor, means to possess beatitude. Beatitude is to be understood primarily as the fulfillment objectively appropriate to our nature and only secondarily as the subjective response to this fulfillment. And this fulfillment is the Beatific Vision.​


Now I don't think any of that is controversial as such as far as Catholic Theology is concerned.

Slightly further on though Pieper talks about despair and presumption as being opposed to the theological virtue of Hope. Presumption he writes, reveals itself in two forms:

Theology calls the first kind of presumption "Pelagian". It is characterised by the more or less explicit thesis that man is able by his own human nature to win eternal life and the forgiveness of sins. Associated with it is the typically liberal, bourgeois moralism that, for no apparent reason, is antagonistic not only to dogma per se but also to the sacramental reality of the Church: solely on the basis of his own moral "performance", an "upright" and "decent" individual who "does his duty" will be able to "stand the test before God" as well.​
....​
The second form of presumption, in which, admittedly, its basic character as a kind of premature certainty is obscured, has its roots in the heresy propagated by the Reformation: the sole efficacy of God's redemptive and engracing action. By teaching the absolute certainty of salvation solely by virtue of the merits of Christ, this heresy destroys the true pilgrim character of Christian existence by making as certain for the individual Christian, as the revealed fact of redemption the belief that he had already "actually" achieved the goal of salvation​
....​
Presumption has its source in a self-esteem that, while false, is somehow affirmed by the individuals own will; it consists in the will to achieve a certainty that is necessarily invalid because there is no valid ground for it. Even more specifically this false esteem of oneself is a lack of humility, a denial of one's actual creatureliness and an unnatural claim to being like God. Hope presupposes not only magnanimity but also humility. Saint Augustine says in his Commentary on the Psalms that only to the humble is it given to hope.​

I'm finding this a bit difficult, because it differs a lot from Protestant teachings.

To give an example, I once heard salvation described like a plane journey, as people who fly can be either nervous passengers, or relaxed, so christians may be either nervous or relaxed. But is that a good analogy?

Pieper refers to presumption as "an attitude of mind that fails to accept the reality of the futurity and "arduousness" that characterise eternal life. In conjunction with attainability, these two characteristics - futurity and "arduousness" - constitute the formal nature of the object of hope. If one characteristic is missing or ceases to be genuine, hope is longer possible."

In theological hope the "antithesis" between divine justice and divine mercy is, as it were, "removed" - not so much "theoretically" as existentially: supernatural hope is man's appropriate, existential answer to the fact that these qualities in God, which to the creature appear to be contradictory, are really identical. One who looks only at the justice of God is as little able to hope as one who sees only the mercy of God. Both fall prey to hopelessness - one to the hopelessness of despair, the other to the hopelessness of presumption. Only Hope is able to comprehend the reality of God that surpasses all antitheses, to know that his mercy is identical with his justice and his justice with his mercy"​



What is the Reformed teaching on Hope? Do they recognise the status viatoris, that Pieper talks about here?

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