• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Does AI follow that thinking? Does AI have a god? Will it one day also become aware of self?
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which commandment in The Written Law is the greatest?” 37 Yeshua said to him, “You shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your God from all your heart and from all your soul and from all your power and from all your mind.” 38 “This is the great and the first commandment.” 39 “And the second which is like it is, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commands depend all The Written Law and The Prophets.”
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HHS investigating claims school vaccinated student despite religious exemption

Federal health officials have launched an investigation into a complaint alleging that an unidentified school located in the Midwestern United States disregarded a valid religious exemption and administered a vaccine to a student without parental consent.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced the investigation on Dec. 3 after officials said school authorities administered a vaccine to a student despite having a religious exemption submitted under a state law.

According to HHS, the vaccine was supplied through the federal Vaccines for Children program, which is administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Entities participating in the program, including schools and medical practices, must adhere to state laws on religious and other exemptions from compulsory vaccination requirements, according to HHS.

The department's Office for Civil Rights will determine whether the school violated those obligations. Neither the school's name nor the student's identity was disclosed.

Continued below.
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Tit for Tat Tariffs - The US versus the World

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No, you, unilaterally, would not be allowed to do that. We The People can do that.

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I don't know if it's enhanced our National Security, but Trump has enhanced China's access to more advanced chips.

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Well, at least we're getting our $25%.
The Supreme Court is NOT making US tariffs illegal, just the method that Trump has chosen on SOME of his tariffs, primarily the accross the board tariffs and those based on the national "emergency" of trade tariffs with individual countries.

He can keep his tariffs based on national security (including drug trafficking). Tariffs on specific products are not affected.

In any case, tariffs can always be passed by Congress, now or in next year's big, beautiful reconciliation bill.
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The Great Judgment is coming



Stuff of nightmares – the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath - Revelation 6:12-17


2 Esdras 15&16 These are the words of the Lord: I shall show sinners no pity, My sword will not spare those murderers who stain the ground with innocent blood.
My anger has burst out in flame, scorching the earth to its foundations and consuming sinners like burning straw. Woe to sinners who flout My commands, I shall show them no mercy. I well know all who offend against Me, I consign them to death and destruction.

See the clouds – full of fury and tempest, their appearance is hideous. They will let loose a vast storm over the land. There will be terror and trembling throughout the world, people will shudder, stricken with panic. Huge clouds will pile up and ravage the whole land and its inhabitants. A terrible storm will sweep over all that is high and exalted, with fire and hail and flying swords.

Strong is the arm that bends the bow and sharp the arrows that He shoots. Once they are on their way, nothing will stop them until they reach the ends of the earth. Calamities are let loose and will not turn back. The fire is alight and will not be put out. When the scorching heat bears down upon you, your strength and splendour will wither like a flower. When the Lord sends calamities, who can avert them? When His anger bursts into flame, who can extinguish it? When the lightning flashes and it thunders, who will not quake with dread? [a Coronal Mass Ejection]

But you, servants of the Lord, listen and learn. This is His Word: take it to heart and do not doubt what He says: Calamities are close at hand and will not be delayed. As a woman giving birth suffers pangs, then comes the birth; similarly calamities will come and the world will groan under the pangs that beset it. My people, get ready and when these disasters surround you, behave as if you are strangers on earth.

Listen, you whom I have chosen, says the Lord: the days of harsh suffering are close at hand, but I shall rescue you from them. Have done with fears and doubts! God is your guide. As followers of My commandments and instructions, you must not let your sins weigh you down or any wickedness gain the ascendancy.

Woe to those who are entangled in their sins and overrun by their wicked deeds! They are like a field where the path is entwined with thorns and there is no way through. They are separated off in readiness for destruction by fire.
Ref: REB Apocrypha

This passage from the prophet Ezra, describes very well how the Lord will act on the terrible Day of His vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 21:7, Isaiah 33:14, Jeremiah 30:4-7, Isaiah 13:6-16, Isaiah 30:26-30; caused by a explosion on the sun.

But those Christian people who trust and believe in His salvation will be saved. They are told to be prepared – that is, be aware of what will happen, so as not to be taken by surprise. There is not a rapture, removal: ‘these calamities will surround you’. Isaiah 43:2

THEN; God’s righteous servants will soon gather and settle into all of the Holy Land:
Isaiah 30:29 For you there will be songs and gladness of heart, as you march to music, on the way to the Mountain of the Lord; the Rock of Israel. Isaiah 12:1-6
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What are some of your guns own and use then for Hunting and target practice?

It’s more common in Germany and England. Hunting round, commercial ammo there. 93 gr bullets is a favorite for their small deer.. I’m fist going like shooting it over 3000 fps. It’s a rarity but dealers don’t want to give me more than $350 for it. They don’t think I should sell it for any more. But I paid more than that. But it hasn’t sold.
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Asking AI to explain Sunday observance when NT has no such command

Then AI gave this "Biblical Context" remark

Biblical Context​

  • The Sabbath was established by God at creation (Genesis 2:2–3) and is explicitly commanded as the seventh day, Saturday, in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8–11; Deuteronomy 5:12–15).
  • Jesus Christ observed the Sabbath and taught that the Law, including the Sabbath, remains valid (Matthew 5:17–19; Luke 4:16).
  • The apostles and early Christians continued to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. The New Testament contains numerous references to Sabbath observance, with no divine instruction to shift it to Sunday (Acts 16:13, 17:2, Hebrews 4:4, 9).

Early Historical Developments​

  • In the 2nd century, Christian writers such as Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexandria began promoting Sunday as a commemoration of Christ’s resurrection. This was initially a supplemental practice, not a replacement of the Sabbath.
  • Anti-Jewish sentiment and cultural influences gradually encouraged some Christians to distance themselves from Saturday worship.
  1. Ecclesiastical Formalization​

    • The Council of Laodicea (~364 CE) reinforced Sunday observance and discouraged Sabbath observance among Christians:
      “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honor the Lord’s Day.”
    • Subsequently, the Catholic Church, under Popes such as Sylvester I and with bishops like Eusebius, formalized the practice of Sunday observance as the “Lord’s Day,” transferring rest from Saturday to Sunday.
  2. Summary of Contributors​

    1. Jesus and Apostles – Maintained Saturday Sabbath; no divine instruction to change it.
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Does Open Carry Cause Problems?

Yeah I agree, there is nothing wrong with carrying a weapon it all depends on what you intend to do with it.
Agreed - open carry is not the issue.

As shown the statistics show a 50/50 split of the top ten cities where the gun violence is the worst. 5 have open carry and 5 do not.
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The real gifts and what they really are.

Anything good that comes from us for the Church is an undeserved gift from God. The lists given in Scripture are general. If it's from the Holy Spirit, not the flesh, it's good and thus a gift. That's the Biblical meaning of the gifts. Setting aside the sign gifts per the rules.

In short, It's the fruit of the Spirit.

John 15:1-5 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

"...for without Me you can do nothing", nothing good implied. That's where the gifts come from.

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

Ephesians 4:7-8, 11-12 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."....And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

All the gifts are for the edification of the Church. Any gifts used for self edification is in fact in direct contradiction to Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians, and therefore, most likely, not from the Spirit and not a gift from God.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

No need to get goofy with this stuff. Scripture is pretty clear. 1 Corinthians 12-14, Paul lays down the foundation of purpose, to edify the Body, not ourselves. Then gives us examples of the what to do (edify the Body), and then gives us examples of the what not to do (edify self). Though many teach the 'what not to do" as commands, and as good things, these are clearly examples of what not to do. Love is the great qualifier. Love is not self seeking.

Whenever in doubt, ask if what you're doing passes the simple test of love.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8A Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails....

Remember, fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), good, a gift. The flesh, not good, not a gift, but sin.

Galatians 5:16-17 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

:)

I hold a view similar to the Open View of God.

We either disagree or do not understand each other. The debate is to find out which it is, or to help lurkers see both sides and understand the implications for themselves.

As to your question, I will provide a simple example from a human frame of reference, as we can argue all day about God's frame of reference, but any rational person should realize that we have no idea about what goes on there, but philosophically, the implications are the same.

Let's theorize that there is somehow a scientist who is perfect, mistake-free, and somehow can understand all of the variables that go into a particular experiment like a controlled energy blast that ignites in a vacuum when he pushes a big red button. He can set up his experiment in one of two ways:

1.) He meticulously works out all the variables ahead of time so that when he pushes that button, he knows where every particle will go, how they will affect each other and everything goes as planned. Nothing new is learned or particularly interesting to the scientist as he knew what was going to happen all along.

2.) He sets up the same experiment, but in this variation, he decides to not calculate every particle but allows them to interact with each other on their own. He still sets up constraints so that they will not leave the vacuum or be in a position to destroy the experiment. Still many different things can happen, and the result is far more satisfying.

You could call it omniscience by default vs omniscience by choice.

You could relate Satan to a rogue jealous scientist who decides to alter the development of two of the particles, but I think this story would get too long and convoluted if I worked out analogies for everything in Genesis.



I really don't see the difference between the two sentences. I agree with both of them. External causation means I am not making the choice.



You are correct from a logical standpoint, but that is irrelevant. The question is whether God already knows my future choices, thereby making my choice moot. Assuming that we both agree that the world contains a lot of evil people, then it's not just a case of God allowing evil to happen. It's a case of God creating evil in its entirety, a concept that I reject.



I don't have a problem with God being at the beginning of all causation. I have a problem with a concept whose logical end result is that God is responsible for man's fall from grace, not man.



I think we have no way of knowing what reality is for God. I think that omnipotence relative to humanity tells me nothing about the environment in the spiritual world. And I think omniscience by default logically precludes God's freedom and sets up all sorts of paradoxes that cannot be resolved.

God sees A, but wants B, and so intervenes and changes the result to B, but then A never occurred, so God shouldn't have been able to see A as a future, because there was no future A.

And that was a ridiculously simplistic example.
I'll highlight this part of what you say, because it is representative of what we disagree on:

God sees A, but wants B, and so intervenes and changes the result to B, but then A never occurred, so God shouldn't have been able to see A as a future, because there was no future A.

And that was a ridiculously simplistic example

Right from the get-go you step out of fact into supposition. God does not simply "see A but want B". That misrepresents what God is doing. It represents the facet WE see, by virtue of a general knowledge we have of him and his nature, and by comparison to his stated commands. While we indeed (as you said) have no way of knowing what reality is for God, we can know some things, such as the fact that it is not how we see it.

It would be useful to do a good study on the theological and philosophical Attributes of God of Aseity, Simplicity and Immanence. Consider the notion, for example, that for God to think is to do, as opposed to the human notions of God considering this or that possibility. If what is possible is exactly all he does, and there is no other fact, then "what would be [otherwise] 'possible' is only by our lack of knowledge". As RC Sproul quoted, "Chance is only a substitute for, 'I don't know.'" ALL FACT DEPENDS ON GOD.

God sees A because he caused A. "There is no plan B." That B goes against his command has to do with what SHOULD HAVE happened. Don't confuse his command with his plan ( =the theological term, 'his decree').

Disclaimer concerning the following statements: My representation of how you see things is drawn on what I hear you saying, and admittedly may be off somewhat:

You assume that (apparently) God began "fact" 'rolling', but then left it to do as it will. Not so. He is the very "in whom we live and move and have our being". Existence itself is by God's upholding, maintaining. "FACT" is God's doing.​
You say, "God intervenes and changes the result". Not so. The result was what God saw and accomplished from the beginning. Nothing was changed. There is indeed, "should have, but didn't" [or did] but no "would have", except for our guesses concerning contingent causation and God's plain statements as to what would have happened, but didn't —neither of which represent possibility, but only as to describe what should have happened vs the results of what was chosen.​
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(ETA: Plot thickens more) NYT reports interim US Attorney Alina Habba will leave interim role (Judge rules her acting appointment illegal)

Alina Habba resigns as New Jersey US attorney after appeals court defeat

She announced her resignation as U.S. attorney in a social media post on Monday. She will remain serving as "Senior Adviser to the Attorney General for U.S. Attorneys."

The resignation comes after a protracted legal fight about whether she could serve in the U.S. attorney role without Senate confirmation.

“Following the flawed Third Circuit decision disqualifying Alina Habba from performing her duties in the U.S. Attorney's office for the District of New Jersey, I am saddened to accept Alina's resignation," Attorney General Pam Bondi said in a statement. "The Department of Justice will seek further review of this decision, and we are confident it will be reversed."

The Trump administration has faced growing headwinds over its efforts to install Trump loyalists as top prosecutors in U.S. attorneys' offices across the country, suffering a string of court defeats as judges raise concerns they're actively disregarding the law.
Halligan is still hanging on for dear life.
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A Pilgrimage Home? England’s Surprising Turn Toward Catholicism

I suspect this happy news is the result of the Church of England alienating its devout Anglo-Catholic members with liberal policies, implemented due to pressure from the state. The Orthodox Church has seen a similar influx in the UK; in the Antiochian Orthodox church in the UK they’re so numerous as to be called “Angliochians.”
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Raking In Hundreds Of Millions For Trafficking Kids Destroys U.S. Catholic Bishops’ Credibility On Immigration

Earlier this week, Anna Gallagher, executive director of the Catholic Legal Immigration Network Inc. (CLINIC) crooned: “As we enter the Advent season, we remember that the Holy Family themselves were migrants seeking safety.” It is a recurring motif to validate the resistance of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) to curtailment of illegal immigration.

In November, the USCCB prepared for Advent by declaring war on the Trump administration with a “Special Pastoral Message on Immigration.” The insurrectionist tenor of this rare “special message” places the globalist conceits — and monetary interests — of the hierarchy ahead of the just laws of their own country.

Continued below.

2025: 7,000+ Christians Killed in Nigeria by Muslims

In 2025 alone, more than 7,000 Christians were killed in Nigeria, underscoring the intense persecution experienced by Christian communities in the country.

Overview of Persecution

Nigeria has become one of the most perilous places for Christians, with violence largely fueled by Islamist militant groups like Boko Haram and Fulani herdsmen. Over the past 14 years, more than 52,250 Christians have been killed due to religious violence, and the situation has only deteriorated in recent years. In 2025, it was reported that 7,087 Christians lost their lives between January and August, averaging approximately 35 killings per day.
Notable Incidents and Statistics
  1. Deborah Samuel. One of the most prominent cases of martyrdom is that of Deborah Samuel, a 19-year-old student who was killed by a mob for her Christian faith in 2022. Her story has become a symbol of the extreme violence faced by Christians in Nigeria.
Continued below.

The Unanswered Question: Natural Law And Same-Sex Attraction

A Study in Moral Discourse

My starting position is that Catholic moral theology proceeds by reason toward truth, not by sentiment toward consensus. Yet even among Catholics, the path of that reasoning can become obscured by philosophical confusion about what moral theology based on Revelation and Natural Law requires.

A recent exchange with a fellow Catholic, Todd Flowerday, brought this tension into sharp focus.

The Question We Both Agree On

The conversation began with a premise I share: if same-sex attraction is a stable, unchosen feature of human experience for a percentage of the population, Catholic moral theology cannot ignore that reality. Revelation and Natural Law reasoning must account for what exists in human nature.

This is basic Catholic realism. When my interlocutor suggested that biological realities matter to Natural Law, he was right. They do matter.

The real question is how they matter.

Where Our Methods Diverge


Continued below.

Zac Brown Band Raises Hell Online With ‘Satanic’ Performance at Las Vegas Sphere

zac brown band
Screengrabs from X / @LasVegasLocally


All hell has broken loose online after Zac Brown Band played the first of eight shows slated for their residency at The Sphere in Las Vegas. The Sphere is an experience “that envelops you in 270 degrees of visuals while filling your ears with immersive sound,” and the band is taking heat for subjecting viewers to “demonic” and “satanic” imagery that included a fiery wasteland and a giant skeleton with a crown of bones.

“I rebuke [these] demons and principalities in the name of Jesus,” said one user on Instagram in response to a clip of the show that showed a hellhound charging toward viewers as if to swallow them. “I [am] speaking healing and deliverance for the people who attended that concert. I pray for Zac Brown Band to open their eyes to see what they are doing and to repent. In Jesus name amen.”

Zac Brown Band Under Fire



Continued below.

Hidden Error

It's my understanding that any religion that teaches anything that is against the Scriptures is a false religion, i.e. anti-Christian! This article is not for the purpose of judging anyone in particular but only for revealing error (sin), via the Word of God!



Overview of the Seven Sacraments

Sacrament Description
Baptism Cleanses a person from original sin and welcomes them into the Church.
Only confession of sins to God cleanses one from sin, and "all unrighteousness" (1Jn 1:9).

Confirmation Strengthens the baptized person in their faith, typically performed by a bishop.
Baptism does not affect any type of power, it only reveals obedience of Christ's command to “baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mat 28:19. It gives encouragement, but no attributed power.

Eucharist Also known as Holy Communion (or Transubstantiation), it is the central rite of Catholic worship, involving the body and blood of Christ.
This is one of the most anti-Christian doctrines, in that it assumes, during the Mass, that the Lord Jesus literally enters the implement of the Body (for re-sacrificing), and the Blood literally becomes the implement of His Blood.

Penance (Reconciliation) Allows individuals to confess sins and receive forgiveness, restoring their relationship with God.
Only if we confess our sins to God can there be forgiveness (1Jn 1:9).

Anointing of the Sick Offers comfort and healing to those who are seriously ill or near death.
Only if requests are made to God can He possibly heal.

Holy Orders The sacrament through which men are ordained as deacons, priests, or bishops for service in the Church. If anyone believes any of the before mentioned Catholic teachings, they are without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and do not possess any godliness.

Matrimony The covenant between a man and a woman, establishing a lifelong partnership in love and faith.
The authority God gives to marry anyone absent of indwelling of the Holy Spirit is want of any authority of God.

–Wikipedia


This final doctrine isn't a sacrament, but are significant enough to mention. If you look in a dictionary for the term, Immaculate Conception, it will define it as "a doctrine of the Catholic Church, that the Virgin Mary was conceived without original sin." It is stated in Scripture that, “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Ro 3:23).

Scholar warns feminism has become a ‘megachurch’ replacing faith, family and Christian virtue

Carrie Gress argues the movement functions as a secular megachurch targeting women with false promises​


An author of 11 books, including an upcoming title on feminism, says the movement has evolved into a kind of secular "megachurch" with its own doctrines, rituals and moral code — one that she argues now serves as a substitute for faith, family and traditional Christian virtue.

“Feminism actually is not a subset of Christianity. It's actually a rival to Christianity," Carrie Gress, a fellow at the Institute for Human Ecology at Catholic University of America, told Fox News Digital in a recent interview.

Gress is the author of the forthcoming book "Something Wicked: Why Feminism Can’t Be Fused With Christianity," which she says examines how feminism has "quietly captured the minds and hearts of women by mimicking aspects of Christianity. Through its own ‘commandments,’ ‘virtues,’ ‘evangelization,’ and even ‘a sacrament,’ feminism has become an exceedingly powerful megachurch."

“In many respects, it can actually be seen as a megachurch," Gress told Fox News Digital. "It has taken on so many of the aspects of Christianity."

Continued below.
I personally have an issue with this article. The scholar's argument that feminism is a "megachurch" that forces women to choose between family and fulfillment overlooks a significant reality present in her own life.
It is undeniable that her ability to wear so many hats—as a wife, a mother of five, a professional author, an academic fellow and an editor —is a testament to the expanded opportunities secured by generations of women seeking equality. This is the Feminist movement.
By criticizing women who seek a career, autonomy and individualism as inherently anti-Christian, she is clearly not grasping the fruits of her now modern opportunities given to her by the foundational work laid by these like minded women of feminism.

I say this is shameful at best and hypocritical at worse.

Thanks for sharing.
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Boston-area pastor refuses to remove anti-ICE Nativity scene, seeks meeting with archbishop

The pastor of a Catholic parish near Boston says an anti-immigration-enforcement display in its Nativity scene will stay up at least for the time being, and he is asking for a meeting with the archbishop.

The announcement Monday night — more than three days after the Archdiocese of Boston said the display should be removed — leaves the parish and Archbishop Richard Henning of Boston at an impasse.

“We are waiting for an opportunity of dialogue and clarity with [Arch]bishop Henning before reaching any final decisions,” Father Stephen Josoma said, according to a video of a press conference published by MassLive.com.

The display, put up Nov. 29 outside St. Susanna Church in Dedham, Massachusetts, includes a large sign saying “ICE Was Here” and another sign explaining that the absent figures of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are safe inside the church building. The display also includes a telephone number to report the presence of U.S. Immigration and Customs agents to an organization that monitors them.

A spokesman for Archbishop Henning on Friday described the display as inappropriate and said it should be removed.

“The people of God have the right to expect that, when they come to church, they will encounter genuine opportunities for prayer and Catholic worship — not divisive political messaging. The Church’s norms prohibit the use of sacred objects for any purpose other than the devotion of God’s people. This includes images of the Christ Child in the manger, which are to be used solely to foster faith and devotion,” said Terrence Donilon, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Boston, by email.

“Regarding the recent incident, St. Susanna Parish neither requested nor received permission from the Archdiocese to depart from this canonical norm or to place a politically divisive display outside the church. The display should be removed, and the manger restored to its proper sacred purpose,” Donilon said Friday.

Father Josoma’s stance​


Continued below.

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