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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

the "blue wave" last night and the government shutdown

The 1.5 trillion paid to insurance companies does not automatically transfer to the universal health care system.
Of course not. No one ever inferred that. What I did infer is that there was a very large amount of money flowing into the healthcare system through insurance premium paid by employers and employees and that diverting it to the single payer system would have low disruption on employer costs and take home pay.
Employer premiums may not be available unless a Bismarck-style tax is implemented, requiring employers to contribute to universal healthcare.
Given that adding $1T+ expenditure to the annual budget is certainly *not* going to be funded by a giant hole in the federal budget we should expect new or expanded taxes. One principle mode would almost certainly be an expanded Medicare payroll tax. (Currently it is 1.45% for employers and employees each for the first $200,000 of wage and 0.90% for employers beyond that.)
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What Satire are You Reading?

Johann Weisman had everything: good income, status, and a life of extravagance. A celebrated doctor turned
businessman, he lived in a world where nothing came cheap. He scoffed at meals below $20, considering
them an insult to his refined palate.

One evening, to celebrate securing a new contract, Johann and his business partner Hans set out in search
of a fitting restaurant in Vienna. Their demanding tastes and fussiness turned the search into a prolonged
ordeal, as they scoured the city for an establishment that could match their impossibly high standards—even
though every venue they encountered was among the most expensive in town. They sneered at each upscale
spot, dismissing the polished menus and lavish decor as unworthy.

At one glittering venue with sky-high prices, Johann spat, "This dump has the unrefined charm of a grimy
cafeteria built for drifters," while Hans derided another, branding it "a pathetic food truck on wheels that dares to
charge extortionate rates." At yet another high-end restaurant, Johann smirked and added, "This looks like a place
for the homeless." Their disdain was palpable, their arrogance unrelenting.

After nearly 5 hours of scrutinizing menus and scoping out venues, they finally settled on an upscale location
that promised a first-rate experience. Bringing with them aged whiskey and expensive cigars, the pair were
preparing to indulge freely. But they were kicked out after only 20 minutes—abruptly told it was closing time.
They staggered out into the city streets, their judgment clouded by their revelry. They didn’t notice the black
van parked nearby until it was too late.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The van screeched forward, headlights blinding. Before Johann could react, rough hands yanked him back. A
hood was shoved over his head, muffling Hans’s protests as they struggled. Their kidnappers moved swiftly,
bundling Johann into the van while leaving Hans behind. Johann’s world blurred into darkness.
Johann’s new reality began in a dim room in the beautiful rural town of Bad Goisern on Lake Halstatt. His two
kidnappers' goal was to demand a ransom of 2 million.

The two kidnappers were Robert and Rune—known to their friends as Rob and Run. They sat slouched in the
dim room, their cigarettes dangling lazily from their fingers. A half-empty bag of fast food sat between them,
grease stains spreading across the table.

Rob: "After we get the money, we’ll be set for life. A life of eating and drinking without work...or learning,.... Just
happy days ahead."
Run: "Yeah....our dream lifestyle is not far away...Ha, ha..."
Then they started to laugh, which got louder and louder, their mouths stretching wide, exposing every inch of
their cigarette-stained front teeth.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Eventually, the kidnappers dragged themselves back to reality and walked into Johann’s room, the ransom
note clutched tightly in the first one's hand.

"Alright, doc," Rob said, leaning against the doorway with a smirk. "Time to make your family cough up the
cash. Two million bucks—that’s all we’re asking. Not too much."
Run chimed in, "Yeah, they’ll pay to get you back. I mean, who wouldn’t? You’re worth it, right?"
Johann, calm and composed, met their gaze. "My family’s wealth has declined a lot, We don’t even have two
thousand, let alone two million. They won’t pay you two million."
Rob and Run looked at each other for a while, then Rob’s smirk faltered, replaced by a confused frown. "What’re
you talking about? You’re rich!"
Johann: "You're wasting your time..."
The two kidnappers looked at each other, not knowing what to say.....


The two kidnappers grew increasingly frustrated. A few hours later, they inspected Johann's clothes and took
most of his money and valuables away, leaving only some coins.
Johann’s response remained unchanged, and boredom crept into the kidnappers’ routine, dulling their edge.
Cigarettes became their distraction, their escape from the monotony. They smoked constantly, the acrid fumes
filling the small room.

Noticing this, Johann attempted to turn the situation to his advantage. “This air,” he said one evening,
coughing dramatically. “It’s unhealthy. You’re smoking yourselves to death, and you’re taking me with you.”
The kidnappers laughed dismissively. “No, you’re bluffing, doc,” one of them sneered, exhaling a plume of
smoke. “We’ve been smoking our whole lives, and we’re fine. I don't think it's harmful.”
Johann frowned, retreating into silence. He bided his time, observing them as they grew more restless and
started chain-smoking even more.
Over the next few days, the smoke thickened, clinging to the air like a suffocating fog. Johann, who had been
coughing intermittently, noticed the kidnappers themselves beginning to cough more frequently. They rubbed
their throats, visibly annoyed.
Sensing his opportunity, Johann struck again. This time, his words carried more weight. “You see? Even you
can’t ignore it anymore. This air is toxic,” he rasped, clutching his chest. “It’s not just me—it’s affecting you
too.”
The kidnappers, though still skeptical, exchanged uneasy glances. Their growing discomfort validated
Johann’s claims, and he seized on their hesitation. “If I die,” he said weakly, “you lose everything. No ransom.
You’ll have nothing to show for your trouble. I need a specific medicine to counteract this.”
Their resolve finally faltered. Reluctant but desperate to keep him alive, they asked Johann what medicine he
needed. Johann provided them with a list of ingredients: vinegar, ground nutmeg, crushed chili peppers, and
adelwez. He explained that the ingredients must be cooked together and insisted the concoction be prepared
with all windows closed to retain potency.
Johann explained carefully, emphasizing that the ingredients must be cooked together in precise proportions
to ensure the mixture’s potency. He insisted the concoction be prepared with all windows tightly shut, claiming
that even the faintest draft could weaken its effectiveness.
Many people know it's dangerous to cook while closing all windows, but not them.
Knowing nothing of the risks, the kidnappers followed his instructions, bolting the windows and sealing every
crack.

The small, dimly lit room grew increasingly stifling, the air turning thick and oppressive. As the mixture simmered on their wood-burning stove, an ominous transformation began. A new toxic gas crept into the room, its presence subtle but a bit dangerous. Apart from that, the lack of ventilation caused carbon monoxide levels to rise imperceptibly, unnoticed by the kidnappers who remained focused on their ransom plans.

Johann, fully aware of the consequences, stayed low to the ground, breathing the marginally clearer air near
the bottom edge of the door. From his position, he watched intently as the effects of the gas began to take
hold. Gradually, their movements slowed, their once-brisk actions reduced to sluggish, clumsy gestures. Their
speech became slurred and incoherent, their heads drooping as if weighted down by invisible hands. Johann
remained still, his heart pounding, as the room sank into a suffocating silence.
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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

Prove it.
I have, many times i nthe past, with the same exchanges between us. But I did again, anyway, in the remainder of that same post.
Of what sin did they die when no sin was charged against them.
They were already dead, born that way due to their alienation from God. That's the state known as "original sin". Now, if this is what is meant by imputation, that a real change, towards injustice/unrighteousness, took place, not just a change in status, IOW, then we can understand why sin could already be in the world even if not charged against those who sinned but hadn't heard the law. We're born sinful, not just viewed as sinful. And this is why the antidote for this is reconciliation with Him, is "re-communion". engraftation into the Vine because there and only there can man be just...justified.
he righteousness that comes from God (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5) through faith in Christ is the imputed righteousness of Christ (Php 3:9), just as righteousness was imputed to Abraham through faith in the promise (Ge 5:5-6, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).
The righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith is real, personal righteousness given, as demonstrated by an objective reading of the passages I included. This is simple: unrighteousness (sin) entered the world at the Fall. Jesus takes it away, both forgiving sin and replacing it with authentic righteousness as we now become new creations in Him.
We are united with God through faith in Christ, wherein the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us (Php 3:9),
just as righteousness was imputed to Abraham through faith in the promise (Ge 15:5-6, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).
No, God doesn't separate righteousness from righteousness, as if pretending that we're righteous while leaving us in our sins would be something good. He forgives our sins, our unrighteousness, while telling us, and empowering us by virtue of grace, His life in us, to "go, and sin no more". The many will be made righteous, Rom 5:19. Thats why there's no condemnation in Christ, Rom 8:1.
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A perspective on Baptism and the plan of salvation that I have not heard before

I have prayed and thought of this thread and the reasons I wanted to discuss it here. We all want to worship our Lord Jesus Christ. He states, I am the Alpha AND the Omega, the first and the last.

Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty


Baptism is a sign for His believers.
Matthew 28:19-20

Baptism is described as the circumcision of Christ.
Colossians 2:11-12

Water was present on the first day. Genesis1:2
Circumcision was to occur on the eighth day.
Leviticus 12:3

Water is important to God as He says it is life giving. See scriptures

Psalm 1
Isaiah 35
Isaiah 43
Isaiah 55
Isaiah 58
Jeremiah 17
Ezekiel 47

John 4
John 7
Apocolypse (Revelation) 22:1-2

John 7 describes the Holy Spirit as the river of living water, while revelation says the river flows from the throne of God AND the Lamb
Filioque?

Scripture tells us that there will be theological disagreements and variances of understanding, yet it says whatever we do, we do from the heart as for God and not men (paraphrase) Col 3:23

We are not here to lord ourselves over one another. The Sabbath came after creation, not at the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, not the end only. The Sabbath was a sign of the Old Covenant. Jesus chose water to represent the New Covenant and told us we must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of Heaven. John 3

Water represents the first day of creation and baptism the circumcision if heart on the eighth day. The Sabbath is not to be profaned, but it has been fulfilled. We are no longer limited to worshipping God in the temple on the Sabbath, but can now worship Him in spirit and in truth any time and anywhere. Matthew 18:20

Life comes from Christ, not obeying the Old Covenant. Galatians 3:11


People may disagree with the Catholic Church due to their personal opinion, but the teaching of the Catholic Church is thoroughly based in Scripture.
Calling her the harlot of Babylon or Sunday worship the mark of the beast is presumptuous and misleading. The sacraments all point to Christ whom we worship. Our honor of Mary amplifies the Word of God as described in Gen 3:15. Mary says that her soul amplifies the Lord. She does not detract from Him

There is no scriptural cause to oppose the Catholic Church. Personal opinion may give one cause, but personal opinion does not a scriptural reason make. 2Peter 1:20

Pray for the salvation of all men for the greater glory of God the Father and Our Lord Jesus Christ in the unity of the Holy Spirit

This is absolutely correct, there is no basis for calling the Roman Catholic Church the harlot of Babylon or any of the other obscene things that people have said about it, such as accusing it of having killed 120 million people as one member claimed, or accusing it of being responsible for censorship on the Internet (yes, someone actually said that).

This is not to say the Roman Catholic Churches has not committed grievous actions, for example, the martyrdom of St. Peter the Aleut*, a 15 year old Aleutian boy who was on a fishing expedition to California who was arrested along with his fellow Aleutians because the Franciscans felt threatened by his Russian Orthodoxy, and he received the crown of martyrdom for refusing to renounce it. St. Peter the Aleut, pray for us!

However, the important thing is that the Roman Catholic Church made amends for these actions, it apologized for these errors under Pope St. John Paul II, it has returned relics to the Orthodox church, even those which were given to it for safekeeping at the onset of Turkocratia such as the head of St. Andrew the Apostle, which itself is a noble act, since the Roman church preserved the relics of the Orthodox church and then returned them in the late 20th century, and the Roman Catholic Church from a doctrinal perspective is mostly correct, differing from the Orthodox Church on only a small number of issues such as the aforementioned question of the exact nature of the conception of the Theotokos or the actual powers of the Bishop of Rome. In terms of Roman Catholic Eucharistic doctrine, and the veneration of icons and relics and Our Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary, the Roman church is correct, likewise her sacramental theology is substantially the same as the Orthodox church, and her more ancient liturgies, such as the Traditional Latin Mass according to the Tridentine, Dominican, Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Norbertine, Carmelite and related uses, are on a par with the liturgies of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox church in terms of beauty.

*Coincidentally, the place of his martyrdom was San Pedro, most likely the San Pedro near Los Angeles, and not that near San Francisco.
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Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

Yeah, that is actually the point. It really does sound like something made up that you'd read in The Onion. But he really did say something that made him look ridiculous.

Did you only just realise this?
Like I have said, repeatedly, sandwich guy should have been charged with disorderly conduct or let go with a warning.
The testimony was ridiculous
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Proton Mail

Can you post the article here for us to read?


I've never heard that criminals use it. But it's possible. My experience has been they use Gmail or they try to make their email address look like it's from a legitimate source (like Microsoft or a bank).

I have Proton myself and I love it. I have one of the paid versions and I have multiple email addresses just for one account. I know on one of the paid subscriptions, you can do a custom email domain if you want to. You can look into that.
I read several articles some months ago, I don't remember exactly what they were, but it was stuff similar to this:

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The Hebrew Calendar and the Traditional Roman Liturgy

The problem with this is that Pesakh can basically be on any day of the week while EO Pascha and Roman Easter is always on a Sunday. Also, since we now know the exact astronomical full moon date and time, the first Sunday after it would simply celebrate the resurrection.
But Passover and the passion observance and Easter will be the same week for Jewish, the EO and Catholic religions.

Anyway, it's not up to me. Stronger minds than mine are at work over it. :D
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