Valletta said:

thousands of denominations

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Typical go-to argument. How many thousands? Tens of? Hundreds of? And where is this listing? And is this listing only believed by whom?

The polls have been trending in this direction for a while now.

However, the distinction that needs to be noted is that there is a subtle difference between this question and "are you religious?"

The polling has showed a drop in that latter question too, and that more people are becoming "unaffiliated" or fellow atheists, which would certainly explain some of the drop with regards to this question.


But the question of "how important is religion to you?" could still decline even in people who still are believers.


For that subset of people, I think the answer is pretty straightforward.

Religion and religiosity doesn't provide the same social and political currency it once did.

The aspects of life that people tend to prioritize are the aspects that get them the things they want (in terms of social fabric, social dynamics, and policy) and put them in "elevated standing" in a community.

There was a time when religiosity got that for conservatives, but somewhere along the way (probably around the late-2000's to the early-2010's), someone merely being "very religious" and constantly appealing to "religious principles" to justify policy just wasn't that effective anymore.

You can see that pattern play out in terms of candidate selection. In the 80's during the Jerry Falwell "Moral Majority" era, it worked like gangbusters. Even up through Bush 2, it still worked. By the time it got to McCain, no so well, and for Romney, even less.

Fast forward to present day, the people conservatives have been rallying behind aren't traditionally religious by any stretch of the imagination.


To put it more directly... why would someone prioritize religiosity after back to back losses at the ballot box with "religion-approved" candidates?, when the candidate that got them more of what they wanted was a "Casino owning, vodka brand creating, swimsuit pageant operating, greedy narcissistic real-estate developer, former New Yorker democrat who swears and cheats on his 4 wives"?


The Republican relationship with religiosity does have some parallels with the Democratic relationship with free speech.

There was a time when the Democrats were the die-hard free speech types... it worked for a period of time, once it stopped getting political wins, they put it on the backburner and started prioritizing other things.

partinobodycular said:

I'm pretty sure @Maria Billingsley understood what you were saying. She was simply conjecturing as to what that 'archetypical' Pharisee would look like in the modern day. In the U.S. at least, they'd almost certainly present themselves as a Christian. In fact I'm pretty sure that I've had conversations with a few here on CF.

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Ah yes, this reminds me of Christians who steal from Caesar, even under the guise of humility.

But going beyond just the religious pretext, I think we can see a personality from all walks of life, but showing the same traits.

essentialsaltes said:

Deceptive Daily Caller headline. Mayor describes closing stores as one of the ills of private grocery stores, leaving food deserts behind, so her proposal is to create public grocery stores.

"We cannot allow" these ills to affect the people of the city. Hence, an alternative.

Her proposal for a 90-day warning for grocery stores to have mass layoffs only makes sense in the context of grocery store closures.

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Impressive. It normally takes a few posts before these type of threads are 'corrected'.

fhansen said:

Of course, but it's not only about the elect, as you put it. God wants all to repent, all to become the elect, IOW, as Paul made clear in his appeal to the Athenians. Also here in 2 Cor 5:20:
"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God."

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Yes salvation is only for the elect. That scripture is only for the chosen of God

Hi, I'm starting to struggle (after all these months) with the beginnings of emotional blunting regarding my dad's passing.

While my brother calls me and tells me he cries every now and then (I'm not deriding that because that's how I used to be), I'm struggling with a new thing in which I am feeling frustrated by the effects of my dad's words and actions during my life that might have led in part to the stage I am at in my life now and I don't know if it's exactly a lack of forgiveness but a feeling of frustration/anger at the consequences, and it's causing me to not be able to feel the emotions I first did in late May and during the month of June.

I do believe though, that my dad somehow knows the truth now, God has shown him. Same goes for my mom.

seeking.IAM said:

I do not know about the parish in this post, but...

I once got invited to speak in a large historic church (not Episcopal) in a large city. I arrived early and was promptly ushered into the Senior Pastor's study where I met all three pastors. When we emerged for the start of the service, I saw about a dozen people sitting in the first two rows of a church that could sit hundreds. I was flummoxed. I was so taken aback, it felt awkward that I had just gotten up early and drove 3 hours to talk to a handful of worshippers. After the service I was invited by someone to go to lunch. In the restaurant, my first question was, "Where was everybody today? Are the <NFL team> playing at home today?" They said, no, that what I saw was all of them. My next question was, "I have to ask. How are you supporting three pastors and a large building?" The answer: We have an Endowment.

Like, I said. I have lots of questions. Two dozen average attendance and an assault in the church. Imagine how that two dozen could break down into family units. Could the diocese be dealing with a situation where the alleged perpetrator or victim was the kid(s) of somebody on the Vestry or church board? Is that why there was no investigation from April to September? Does two dozen average attendance permit a church to have a paid Rector in place? Or are they relying upon supply priests shuffling in and out? Was there little oversight present until it all blew up?

To answer your question, I think pride, loyalty to the past, or money keeps people hanging on until the last guy turns out the lights rather than joining another congregation.

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3 pastors for a small congregation? How odd!

What denomination was it, if i may ask? Not to go off topic…

Thank you for your insight!

Dikaioumenoi said:

Do you have a point?

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LOL. That's the last question you should ever ask me. I believe I make my points very clear and I don't play games.

Dikaioumenoi said:

I've not argued that the text says "they were appointed to believe." They were appointed to eternal life.

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I'm not talking about you making a claim about what the text says. Clearly, everyone can see that the text doesn't explicitly say that they were appointed to believe. Yet, you do believe that they were appointed to believe because you believe that those who are appointed to eternal life are also appointed to believe. That is what I'm addressing, which is what I believe to be your false interpretation of Acts 13:48.

Dikaioumenoi said:

But their act of belief flows from that prior divine appointment, not the other way around.

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And there it is Why do you act as if you don't understand my point? What I'm addressing is what you said right here. I disagree completely with your statement here.

Dikaioumenoi said:

You can't dispute that grammatically.

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LOL. Yes, I can and I have. Don't try to tell me what I can or can't do.

Dikaioumenoi said:

Your best bet for defending your view would be to argue for the middle reading of τεταγμένοι, not a reversal of the syntax.

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I'm arguing using scripture to interpret scripture. I don't need to buy into your "middle reading" nonsense. Your interpretation of Acts 13:48 contradicts a lot of other scripture. Does that matter to you or do you think it's acceptable to interpret a verse in isolation from the rest of scripture?

Dikaioumenoi said:

This comment of yours was offered in response to a straightforward grammatical analysis of Acts 13:48, not a theological argument. Labeling the grammar as "wrong" or saying it "doesn't line up with Scripture" tacitly concedes that your theology, rather than the text itself, is your standard of truth. Luke's syntax is painfully clear: the entire relative clause ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ("as many as had been appointed to eternal life") functions as a single substantival unit and occupies the subject position of ἐπίστευσαν ("believed"). It cannot mean "those who believed were appointed." That reading is grammatically indefensible, as it would require ἐπίστευσαν to lie within the relative clause as its predicate, reversing the syntactic relationship. Luke wrote the opposite: the appointed ones [subject] believe [predicate]. The Greek allows no other reading.

Whatever your view of the rest of Scripture, it must be reconciled with the grammar Luke actually wrote. If it cannot, then it is your interpretation, not my presentation of the syntax, that produces the apparent contradiction.

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You really need to humble yourself. You have deluded yourself into thinking that you are the ultimate Greek grammar expert of the entire world. You're making me nauseous here with your boring nonsense. I don't care what you say, the verse is up for interpretation and the meaning of it is not based on our understanding of the Greek grammar. And I certainly don't trust that your understanding of that is correct, anyway, since you are clearly very doctrinally biased. There is nothing in the text to demand that those who were appointed to eternal life were also appointed to believe by God because of being appointed by God to eternal life. If you actually read ALL of scripture, it should be clear that God wants all people to be saved and wants all people to choose to repent and believe or not. You need to question yourself and your understanding of the grammar and of scripture itself when you interpretation of any given verse or passages contradicts many other verses or passages.

Dikaioumenoi said:

The irony is hard to miss. You ask whether it matters to me not to contradict other Scripture, yet you dismiss the plain grammar of the verse because it contradicts your interpretation of other passages. Which is more likely at fault: Luke's Greek, or your reading of the rest of the Bible?

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Your doctrine is VERY CLEARLY false, so the way you're talking here means nothing to me. I know the truth and your doctrine is not the truth. I can prove that with ALL of scripture. We can't just base everyone on one verse. But, our interpretation of that verse needs to be able to be reconciled with all of scripture and you cannot do that with your interpretation of Acts 13:48. No amount of talk about the Greek grammar can change that.

Dikaioumenoi said:

I am letting Luke speak for himself; you are imposing your system over his syntax. If anyone is forcing a contradiction here, it is not me.

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Wrong. Your argument is not convincing even a tiny bit to me even though I know you have convinced yourself because of what you want to believe.

Dikaioumenoi said:

The issue isn't whether humans make choices. We obviously do. The question is why some believe while others do not.

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And your answer doesn't line up with the scriptures which teach that God graciously offers salvation to all people, implying that all people are capable of accepting it, or else He would not offer it or His offer would not be genuine.

essentialsaltes said:

Is that why he pleaded guilty, because it was political hit job?

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He didn't have the millions of dollars necessary to defend himself from the weaponized lawfare of a corrupt DOJ.

Ehh I think that’s beside the point. My point was, aligning your joints and posture = good. This is the same as having a good balance. My biggest concern is that chiropractics as a philosophy has you rely on the “therapist” rather than being aware of your own body and fixing it yourself, and they also tend to overdo it because they want to create the impression that they are giving you treatment.

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ARBITER01 said:

I'm perfectly fine with you placing your trust in other people.

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I'm glad you are.

essentialsaltes said:

Trump to ask DOJ to probe Jeffrey Epstein involvement with Clinton, JPMorgan, Summers​

President Donald Trump on Friday asked the Department of Justice to investigate relationships between notorious sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and former President Bill Clinton, JPMorgan Chase, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, billionaire tech investor Reid Hoffman, and others.

Attorney General Pam Bondi said later Friday that she had appointed Jay Clayton, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, to lead the investigation.

Trump’s statement comes as he faces renewed pressure over his own past friendship with Epstein, who killed himself in August 2019 after being arrested on child sex trafficking charges.

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Well it’s a good thing the president isn’t focused on keeping this “nothingburger” going…

I am at a point where I would rather see character in any leadership rather than my political views. Here at the local city and county level, or even place of work, I can get behind someone I know and trust even if I do not agree with them.

And I am concerned about the future of our society. How do we promote the development of character in our children? Examples? Role models? Television and social media? There are so many factors and possibilities.

Dale said:

Is President Trump Corrupt?

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Is he in politics?

If the the answer to that question is "Yes", then my answer is "probably, at least to some degree"

SabbathBlessings said:

There is no need to re-interpret what God spoke, it’s very plain all we need to do is believe.

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It’s not a matter of reinterpreting the scriptures, it a matter of interpreting them using sound hermeneutical practices which is something that has led to your demise. Both literary and historical contexts are important. You continue to use scriptures that is outside of both.

SabbathBlessings said:

Like I said, we have been through this too many times, its in God's hands. I am not interested in further discussion, its not fruitful, but I wish you well.

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So I guess you don’t have a verse that shows that the law was given to the church? Why not? After all, your argument relies on the church being given the law directly, right?

In some ways the vigilante self-professed "pedophile hunters" present just as big of a public safety concern as actual pedophiles.

"Vigilante justice", while swifter and more satisfying to some than actual justice, is often prone to mistakes and rash decision making.

There have been plenty of stories about those guys thinking they got the right person (based on descriptions that aren't detailed enough to be "for sure" IDs to make sure they got the right guy), and then committing what's tantamount to a gang assault on the wrong person.

They've also publicly harassed the wrong people in stores and restaurants yelling "this guy was planning on having sex with <insert age here> girl", and then find out after the fact that smeared someone in public for no reason.


Then there's other stories where the so-called "hunters" have become the hunted.

I'll see if I can find the story....pretty sure I've linked it on here before.

But there was that one so-called "predator hunter" who "operated" in Ohio and Michigan, and was famous for uploading videos of him and his buddies cornering a person in a public place, and then slapping them on camera, and when the people would threaten to call police he'd say "that's fine, when the cops get here I'll take that charge, you take the pedophilia charge"

Well, one day they got the wrong person, that person didn't take kindly to being surrounded in a parking lot 4-to-1, being called a "pedo" and getting slapped, and decided to exercise a little vigilante justice of his own and shot the guy (I believe he ended up dying), and wounded one of his "henchmen".

timf said:

Eugenics was popular in the 1930s. It didn't work out well for Germany.

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Darwinists like Reginald Punnett showed that the entire idea was mathematically flawed. It would take hundreds of years of Draconian control to remove harmful recessives from the population.

Abraham1st said:

We enter in by belief that God ceased from HIs works, and declared a holy day/sanctification/all was very good, Christ did the works of the Father then ceased from HIs works, sanctified Himself that we may also be sanctified by the truth.


Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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the ONLY VERSE that. concerns REST is. in. Heb 4;9. ,B There remains a REST for the PEOPLE of God and that means , Israel!!

dan p

Always in His Presence said:

It means EXACTLY what it says - our works - the things we do, what we say - are judged. We are saved.

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We are indeed saved but only as through fire
What does being saved only as through fire mean to you?

Always in His Presence said:

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

​

What does that mean? Does it mean after we leaving this life we are judged and then might have to spend sometime in jail (purgatory) until we get our act right? or does it mean exactly what it says?

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.​

​

One time - not after a jail sentence - one time.

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It means we are saved. But being saved does not mean that we will not experience God’s discipline. Isn’t the author of Hebrews writing to “saved” people when he says that when God disciplines us he is treating us like sons? Being saved does not mean we will not be disciplined by God to perfect us in holiness. Being completely sanctified is not optional.

If you leave this life and you are not perfected in holiness, not sure I would call it ‘jail’. But if you have not yet become “righteous made perfect” (Hebrews 12:23), God still has some work to do with you.

So say for example, Mr. X has held a grudge against his brother for many years due to a perceived wrong. Mr. X dies still holding that grudge. He hates his brother.

Do you really think Christ is going to say “Mr. X, you’re dead now so regardless of what sin you’re still attached to, heaven is open to you? Keep your grudge, hold on to your hatred because all the saved are welcome no matter what sin you bring with you?”

Or is Christ going to say we still have a little work to do don’t we? About that grudge….”

prodromos said:

The person, not the book.

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But the book of Jashar is. Job 10:13

I get eyestrain easy so I've been listening to the radio a little bit in the evening. There's a lot of Christian stations.

I have been watching a lot of college football.

I have been watching the Wano episodes of One Piece.

I have been watching theology videos on YouTube too