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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Fellowship Distinctions in scripture associated with being born again and being filled with The Holy Spirit (Read the rule-set before you post)

Isn’t repentance needed . Unless we repent we will likewise perish, Jesus came preaching the gospel saying repent and believe the gospel. Immersion in water , as I understand is to be washed from our sins, to symbolically be buried with Christ and coming up out of the water as a living sacrifice looking forward to the resurrection, but the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands. GOD is the one who grants repentance. GODLY sorrow produces repentance. Peter said to the crowd on Pentecost, repent and be baptized or have sins washed away, then by the laying on of hands receive the holy spirit . Seems to be a process; GODLY sorrow, repentance, baptism, Holy Spirit. From what I have read and studied this process was always used with only one exception, Cornelius and his household. What do you think ?

If you look at Acts 2, the 120 had the same thing happen that happened to Cornelius's household, they were born again then immediately filled with The Spirit. Cornelius's house was water immersed afterwards.

The process in scripture is as follows: repentance, immersion into The Holy Spirit where He applies the blood of Jesus to be born anew spiritually, water immersion in the name of Jesus, the filing of The Holy Spirit, and then one that many never reach for, the Spiritual anointing upon our head, ie the crown of life from The Father.
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Struggling with scrupulosity

Thank you Mari17. I have listened to him some. I do things on this journey that is textbook scrupulosity. I try to say the opposite of my thought, I research constantly, I seek reassurance, I pretty much stay away from triggers but every once in a while I will approach them to see if I have the same response. “Do I still feel this anger and cynicism toward God”? I know all of that is foolish but I am desperate. I read passages like Hebrews 10:26-29 And I just know it’s talking about me. I am ashamed of all my willful sin. I wish I could back 40+ years and do the right things this time. I am angry at the person I have become because of it. I am learning more about myself though. Turns out I am a narcissist. I sought peoples approval and praise because of growing up so poor. I always wanted to be known as intelligent and good at what I do. I never saw how selfish I was. Well, that’s enough of that. Sorry for the long reply.
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Elijah Comes First

I've used Redhat Fedora Linux for some years, and this was typed on a Linux computer.

I'm just a user, with no formal training and until I saw your post i had no idea what GNU HURD was. I'd heard of GNU, but the idea of a computer HURD which may or may not stampede over the finish line before Elijah returns is something I'll have to leave to far more educated IT people like the Liturgist.

If Elijah comes first, GNU HURD will be the least of our worries. Meanwhile what is the Liturgist going to do all day with no computers in heaven?
And no one to debate with!!!
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The Electrical Nature of the Universe

Conventional teaching is that the sun and stars obtain their energy by nuclear reaction, that is: atoms splitting to become less complex elements, thereby releasing energy.
No, just the opposite. Stars are powered by nuclear fusion, where hydrogen atoms ared fused together. Here's the drill:
  • In the first stage two protons combine and one of them converts into a neutron to form a nucleus of the heavy isotope of hydrogen known as deuterium.
  • Next, the deuterium nucleus combines with another proton to form the light helium isotope known as helium-3.
  • Finally, two helium-3 nuclei combine to form helium-4, releasing two protons.
Tada!

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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Thank you for expressing your private opinion of all the above
De nada. amigo. We've all noted your interesting opinions as well. Dang, even Islam is closer to Christianity than the claptrap you're peddling.

I have to admit, I think you have to be taking the Mickey here. Atheists. and particularly "Satanists" like to come into groups like this to "stir the pot" as it were by posting inflammatory flapdoodle like yours just to see how big an uproar they can create. While I'm sure there are some sects like the one you claim to represent out there, i don't think you're in one of them. You're just larping. That's fine. I don't think anyone here is gonna take your rantings very seriously. You set out to wind us up, and you did for a bit, but I think you've gotten about as much mileage out of it as you're going to.
, but may I remind you that "opinions are like noses". Everybody has their own
And some have ones that they play at having just to see how people react. <Laugh>
, so your private opinion is absolutely worthless to me
Egad sir, you've cut me to the quick! (And few things hurt more than a cut quick.) 8)
I just follow the Lord.
This is we're supposed to react with shock/horror/outrage/ anger/indignation/ superannuation (no, I already have that)/whatever, right? OK, I'm oficially expressing all of the above.

Friendly hint, though. Don't play this game with the Muslims. Those geezers will actually come after you. Just sayin'
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What are YOU currently reading? (8)

I liked A Separate Peace. I enjoy the prestigious-school-with-intense-friendships-and-rivalries "genre," so I'm gonna read another book in the same vein, Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld. (Though, judging by the review on the cover, this one might feature more identity politics than what I prefer.)

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Synopsis from Amazon:

"Lee Fiora is an intelligent, observant fourteen-year-old when her father drops her off in front of her dorm at the prestigious Ault School in Massachusetts. She leaves her animated, affectionate family in South Bend, Indiana, at least in part because of the boarding school’s glossy brochure, in which boys in sweaters chat in front of old brick buildings, girls in kilts hold lacrosse sticks on pristinely mown athletic fields, and everyone sings hymns in chapel.

As Lee soon learns, Ault is a cloistered world of jaded, attractive teenagers who spend summers on Nantucket and speak in their own clever shorthand. Both intimidated and fascinated by her classmates, Lee becomes a shrewd observer of—and, ultimately, a participant in—their rituals and mores. As a scholarship student, she constantly feels like an outsider and is both drawn to and repelled by other loners. By the time she’s a senior, Lee has created a hard-won place for herself at Ault. But when her behavior takes a self-destructive and highly public turn, her carefully crafted identity within the community is shattered.

Ultimately, Lee’s experiences–complicated relationships with teachers; intense friendships with other girls; an all-consuming preoccupation with a classmate who is less than a boyfriend and more than a crush; conflicts with her parents, from whom Lee feels increasingly distant, coalesce into a singular portrait of the painful and thrilling adolescence universal to us all."
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

He didn't become Lord of the Sabbath i.e. the creation, He is the Lord of the Sabbath Creator of it starting back from the beginning.
Now you are adding words to scripture. The sabbath is not “the” creation but what happened at the end of creation. No one before Moses kept the sabbath because there was no commandment for it yet. And when the law was given to Moses it was for the Jews not for the gentiles.
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‘Go to Berkeley’: Ron DeSantis said students seeking ‘woke’ classes should study elsewhere

And:
The average SAT score is down 24 points since then; the average ACT score of 25 is the highest at New College since 2020. The state study also found New College has the lowest percentage of job placement among those with bachelor’s degrees and the lowest starting salary for graduates.​
Berkeley is looking good.....

Huh. Who could of guessed putting anti-intellectual ideologists in charge of a system of education would lead to a poor outcome?

Is there a control group to compare it to?



ACT scores are down across the board since the HS graduates of 2020-2022 had their learning disrupted due to the pandemic.


Also, it doesn't sound like comparing this place (which has a grand total of about 700 students from what I'm reading) to Berkeley is a apples to apples comparison.


That'd be kind of like saying "See this is why the thing I said about tech degrees being worthless is accurate, look at this results comparison between this normal college and ITT Tech"

The fact that someone can find a terrible school in Florida doesn't validate or invalidate the criticisms about Berkeley.
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The Venting Thread

Uggghll, I'm irritated. So, I quickly pop into the school to grab some books I need for lesson planning. On my way out, I close my classroom door. It automatically locks. The moment I hear the lock click, I remember that my classroom and car keys are still sitting on my desk!

On Monday morning, I can ask a janitor to let me in—but until then, I can't re-enter my classroom or use my car. Now I can't go to church tomorrow :( I would walk, but the temperatures are below freezing and we've gotten a few inches of snow this weekend. I also considered asking for a ride, but I don't have a phone number for anyone who attends my church. I don't have any friends or family in town to give me a lift either. Isolation makes things so difficult...

My church was cancelled today due to the weather, so don't feel guilty about missing church, it was possibly cancelled anyway
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

And need you if you can explain ACTS 15:1 ??
As a help to one's memory, and to make sure we are on the same page, I shall include the verse as a quote.
[NRSVUE acts 15:1] The Council at Jerusalem
Then certain individuals came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”​

And certain ones having come down. from Judea were teaching the brethren , that you would be CIRCUMCISED after the

THE CUSTOM OF MOSES , you are NOT //. OV. IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means you cannot EVER

BE SAVED ??

What say you. ??

dan p
I say that the "certain individuals" were wrong.
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To Hell or Not To Hell

None of my posts are me telling you what you need to believe. They are me giving you my perspective and the 'why' of that said perspective. This post will be different. This post is me still working out what it is I believe about Hell and the why of it. All based within the context of 'my' understanding of the Gospel. This is something I'm sure will continue to develop over time as I continue to discover more of God.

- I see in scripture two ages. The present age, and the age yet to come. The present age is understood as being only a temporary age. This is made evident by the fact that there is yet a second age to come.

- In this present, but temporary age, life is temporary. If life is temporary, then logically, death must also be temporary. Maybe this is why death is often referred to as sleep?

- The age to come is understood to be everlasting. If this age is everlasting then so must life be also. And if life is everlasting then, likewise, death must also be everlasting.

- At the end of the first age we will all be resurrected, believers and unbelievers alike. Now because I understand being created in the image of God to mean that we have three defining parts; body, soul, and spirit, I believe all three are essential for life. We cannot exist without all three. (With regards to spiritual death, I believe that our spirit has gone into a dormant state. It is not actually deceased) For this reason I am leaning towards the idea that both believers and unbelievers will receive new bodies at the time we are resurrected. And that these new bodies will be free of a sinful nature. Why?

- We will all stand before the full presence of God. Any corruption within us would likely be obliterated in the full presence of God. Just an assumption on my part. And this is only going to compound the coming judgment for an unbeliever.

- A new sinless body will most likely mean a clear understanding of one's purpose within creation. And it is for this very reason why I am coming to this particular conclusion of Hell, and what that may actually look like. (Again, this is still something I'm working out)

- Unbelievers will suddenly have full awareness of their purpose while at the same time recognizing where their rejection has led them. All the while standing in the full presence of God, the very purpose for their existence. At that moment nothing else will matter to them. All they will want and desire is standing right before them. But... with the knowledge they will never have it due to their former rejection.

- You will now have an unbeliever who's only desire is to worship and to be in the presence of God, but unable to carry it out. (there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth).

- I believe, that in the very beginning, man was created with physical death being a natural part of his existence. Hence the tree of life. As small a possibility as this may have been, a third option was always available: man could have not sinned, but also could have not eaten from the tree of life. Inevitably resulting in everlasting death. Extreme, I know, but hear me out.

- In the age to come, man again has access to the tree of life. So logically, death must still be possible, and dare I say, an option. However, highly unlikely a choice anyone would make after experiencing the full presence of God. Still, the option being there would align with God's character just as it would have in the beginning. And it's the reality of the possibility of death that now applies to unbelievers in this new age.

- If you were to stand in the full presence of God and then suddenly be taken out of His presence, any amount of time, out of His presence, would feel like hell to you.

- In the first part of Genesis, man lived upward of a thousand years. If we carry that over into the new age, you now have unbelievers with new bodies capable of living that same amount of time. This would be worse than any hell anyone could ever imagine. To an unbeliever, any amount of time is going to feel like an eternity. (the word 'Eternity' is often used as hyperbole in scripture since only God is truly eternal)

- An unbeliever will eventually face everlasting death (the second death/lake of fire). But not until after what felt like an eternity of hell for them. In this scenario, not only is God's justice served (experiencing time outside the presence of God in a sinless state where all you want is to be in His presence), but also His love and grace (He does not leave them there for the rest of eternity). I do not find any mention in scripture of man being sent to hell to spend eternity with Lucifer.

As I said, this understanding is something I am currently working out. So I do not hold dogmatically to it. If you do not agree but feel it necessary that I know you don't agree, then do me the respect of explaining why you don't agree, as it may help me in my understanding.

In the end does it matter if I/we understand what exactly Hell is? Not at all. But, everyone is different and being able to answer an unbelievers concerns or questions more confidently may be the defining point of whether they choose to believe or not.

WHAT DOES PAUL. SAID OF Eph 1 : 4. !!

# A And the apostle Paul is telling us that believers are CHOSEN // ELECTED , before Christ made the WORLD. and no their GOSPEL

Hey Dan.

I believe the the one important thing that is often overlooked in Ephesians 1:4 and context is that we are chosen "in Him", and always "In Christ". --Vs. 10 is speaking of the Spirit baptism which began at Pentecost (1 Cor. 12:13). Vs. 11 is speaking of true OT believers already declared righteous by OT faith (Romans 8:29) who came to faith in Jesus.

It is Jesus who was elect from the foundations of the world. Anyone who is placed 'in Him', becomes elect with Him. Thus, "In Him" we receive all these things spoken about in Ephesians 1. This has been God's plan from the [foundations of the world], thus the 'Lamb slain from the foundations of the world' is speaking about an eternal decree, but it still had to actually happen before it applied.

We are all placed into Christ with the NT indwelling, called the placing into, or, baptism with the Holy Spirit, that was made available to everyone after Christ was lifted up. Today, when someone believes and trusts in Christ Jesus in faith, Jesus places the Holy Spirit in us, making us one with Him (the baptism into the Body, into Christ), as a result, being born again and justified. This is all initiated by faith.

For your convenience, I quoted it.

1-14 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined (Romans 8:29) according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Dave
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