Jeff Saunders said:

Let me explain what I was thinking.
Freewill is our ability to make a choice that's all if their is no choice, like Calvinism teaches, their is no freewill.

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My general objection to such stances is that there is nothing that transpires in creation that God is not involved in in some way. Evil does transpire in the midst of Omnipresence, as well as sin and death.

Therefore...do the math

We're faced with 2 basic postures when this reality hits. We can either isolate God and provide excuses for Him

or

We can believe that God is greater than anything that happens and can make it all seem as nothing, which is what I believe happens.

Let the worlds turn to dust. It will not matter in the face of Eternity.

Jeff Saunders said:

Yes ultimately Gods plan will be done, I believe that its Gods will that none should perish but for all to come to the knowledge of the truth, Gods will must and will be done but within that will we are given choices to either follow Jesus now in our mortal body, which has the greatest reward or to choose him through purgation which has a loss of inheritance. These are real choices on our part but without choice we are merely robots.

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I'd suggest that no person acts apart from Divine and unseen influences, one way or another. Therefore there is no "blame" necessary. IF God wanted all of us to believe He could make it happen in an instant, just as He did many times with many people. None of us choose our way into God. He chose us, for whatever that brings.

Jeff Saunders said:

God because he is outside of time knows what are choices will be,

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You're presuming these choices transpire in a vacuum. I think that's just a ridiculous posture that isolates God from the equations.

Jeff Saunders said:

so he knows the beginning from the end, but we still have to make those choices and each has its own consequences but God does not make our choices for us as Calvinist think ,

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Then you are promoting a Godless position, is a general point of fact.

Jeff Saunders said:

does the Father help us and is he involved with our lives, yes he can do whatever he wants, but we are responsible for our actions.

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I appreciate the back tracking attempt, but you can't play it both ways my friend.

Jeff Saunders said:

I see this in the Romans letter that compares all humanity to a lump of clay some for noble use some for common, our choices are what make us either noble or common, but its our choice, even if the Father knows what choice we will make.

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I'd have a bit of a different take on Romans and the lump, the question being why has God made me thus? A vessel of honor and a vessel of dishonor in the same lump. Universally applied. And God's choice which is dominant.

God raised Pharaoh to resist. What Pharaoh thought about it really doesn't matter. God has POWER OVER him, and used it to turn against Israel and force a separation.

This also happens to us, individually, when we are born again. We turn against our own pharaoh, the tempter or his own. Which we had no clue about prior to salvation.

You see, there really are things going on, unseen. And sadly still unknown to believers who should know better.

Jeff Saunders said:

In the end the Father will be all in all, on the new heaven and a new earth.

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And to that we agree, which is a good thing

Who can complain about Perfection running everything? Not me, for sure.

HARK! said:

I find some of the differences very puzzling.

These foe example:

(CLV) 1Ki 6:18
The cedar for the inside of the house had an embossing of colocynth gourds and open| up blossoms. It was all cedar; there was no stone to be seen.

(CLV) 1Ki 6:23
In the innermost sanctuary he made two cherubim of oil-tree wood, each ten cubits in its rise.

(CLV) 1Ki 6:27
He bestowed »the cherubim in the midst of the inner house, so that they |spread out the wings of the cherubim. The wing of the one |touched i the one sidewall, and the wing of the second •cherub was touching i the second sidewall, +while their wings were toward the midst of the house and touching wing to wing.

(CLV) 1Ki 6:32
The two doors were of oil-tree wood; he embossed on them embossings of cherubim, palm trees and open up blossoms; and he overlaid them with gold, hammering »the gold |down on the cherubim and on the palm trees.

(CLV) 1Ki 6:34
The two doors were of fir-tree wood: The two leaves of the one door on pivots, and the two leaves of the second door on pivots.

(CLV) 1Ki 6:35
He embossed on them cherubim, palm trees and open up blossoms and overlaid them with gold evenly over the delineation

Can you show me where these instructions were given for the creation of the tabernacle?

They were not.

.

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I am referring to the pattern of the santuary, are they all different. If so please provide Scripture.

keras said:

Those who promote and teach false theories and wrong doctrines, will be held accountable at their Judgment.
Using Revelation 4:1 as a proof of a general rapture, is plainly wrong and destroys the whole 'rapture; belief.

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Apostle John was on Patmos the entire time he was shown his vision of supernatural scenes for each chapter and verse of Revelation.

John specifically indicated when he was immersed in his vision and seeing and hearing a supernatural scene. He repeatedly wrote specific phrases such as “I looked” and “I heard” (and their variations) to indicate he was immersed in his vision and seeing and hearing specific supernatural scenes.

Those specific indications were written beginning in the first supernatural scene. The first supernatural scene began in Rev 1:10 (ESV): I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

John could only initially hear the audio of the first supernatural scene, and he specifically indicated that with, “I heard.”

In Rev 1:12, John saw into his supernatural scene and specifically indicated that with “I saw.” Rev 1:12 (ESV): Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,

Throughout Rev, you will repeatedly find those specific phrases and variations thereto. The use of those phrases specifically indicated he was seeing and/or hearing a supernatural scene in the continuation of his vision.

Rev 4:1-2 (ESV): After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.

In Rev 4:1, John used “I looked, and behold” which prove he was seeing the first supernatural scene for Rev 4:1.

In Rev 4:1, John also said, “I had heard” in relation to the same voice he heard in Rev 1:10 (ESV): … I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet …

In Rev 4:2, John used “and behold” to specifically indicate the supernatural scene was continuing with a vision into Heaven.

John was shown all of Rev by a vision of supernatural scenes for each chapter and verse. John generously indicated when he was immersed in his vision of supernatural scenes by the use phrases “I heard” and “I looked” and their variations.

In Rev 22:8, John acknowledges he was shown all of Rev by one angel, who was clearly responsible for presenting every element of every supernatural scene. Rev 22:8 (ESV): I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me,

Rev 4:1 remains unfulfilled. It therefore will be the pre-Trib rapture of the Church, in complete alignment with Rev 3:10 and the supporting verses: 1 Th 1:10, 1 Th 4:16-17, 1 Cor 15:52, John 14:3 and Acts 1:11.

Vambram said:

‘He Deserves All The Credit’: Ex-Dem Strategist Praises Trump For ‘Historic’ Israel-Hamas Peace Deal

Former Democratic strategist Dan Turrentine praised Donald Trump on Monday's “The Morning Meeting” for brokering a peace deal between Israel and Hamas.

dailycaller.com

Here's another Democrat who is giving President Trump credit for this peace deal.

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Andrew Cuomo congratulates Trump and says how smart he's been in dealing with terrorists.

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Here one of the released hostages says that the terrorists wanted Harris to become president because they were afraid of Trump, because they knew Trump would get the hostages released:

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Heavenly Father, unoriginate and almighty, infinite in love and perfection

Vouchsafe that the surgery to be performed on the father of Jane Chai shall prove to be a success, that Thou may be glorified through it, for Thou art a good God, who lovest mankind, and to thee we offer all honor, glory and worship, together with Thine uncreated only begotten Son and Incarnate Logos, Jesus Christ, and Thy Holy Spirit, our Comforter and Paraclete, ever one God.

Amen

ArmyMatt said:

please pray for the newly departed Theodora.

memory eternal!

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Memory eternal

ralliann said:

No innocent people are being abused.

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Fantine said:

I see the suppression of truth in media is persuading at least a few individuals.

The evil concealed by our government dwarfs the small number of criminal immigrants being cast as stereotypes.

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The ongoing way of life in most demo controlled cities like Chicago is what is criminal. Crime is always said to be dropping but yet it always persists at dangerous levels. Conditions at the South Shore apartments where the ICE raid occurred were unsafe and unsanitary.



Crime is always said to be dropping but remains perpetually high while society falls apart from demo governance and the police take the blame. The hack mayor of Chicago and governor of Illinois can’t even find the right people to spin their propaganda. This is evident in the case of a representative of a “non violent” community group who was involved in a smash & grab robbery 6 days after appearing with demo heroes.

Do you want to rename your thread, philosophy without being vain ?



Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.



If this were not a Christian forum, the discussion would be quite appropriate, because it contains no scripture discussion, which Christians who hear the conversation from two thousand years ago, ( as two days to God when it is passed.) heard from Apostle Paul how to keep ourselves in the Spirit. ( which is by the hearing of faith.)




So I looked and saw that the world has its morals, like a code, almost like the animal kingdom, all going about to survive, doing what is necessary, such as one animal feeding on grass, and another to come along and feed on that one who had just eaten grass, and all doing as God had created everything to be, When we compare that to people, people over complicate things, such as these discussions, to try to declare or manipulate what is deemed to be acceptable, such as self defence, etc, as the discussion related.



All of that is fine, it is how the word works and even thinks, I mean it wont be the word we have, unless it acted and believed the way it does. But, it is a world about to end, and to be burned with unquenchable fire, as it has to be removed so no trace of what it ever was remains, and so all is new, and then contains righteousness. This is because the worlds view of morality, absolute as described and discussed in the thread has sidestepped away from scripture, and also from reason, and its own reasoning and understanding, is what is chosen, instead of a better testimony that as given to the whole world.


If you don't mind a view that saves the soul, ( the conversation given for faith.) That is to do as our Lord Jesus Christ, not just as the thread began its description of turning the other cheek, that is nothing, who cant do that, or who cant even be brave to give their life for someone else ? Look at the scripture and remember for a moment.




Now focus the people who are wise in this world, because this is a different kind of wisdom, this is faith. ( if a person does not have faith they will disagree, but their words will be turned backwards, as they are supposed to believe in Christianity, or be dead in their unbelief without it.)



Firstly when the love of God is shed into our hearts, the Holy Ghost given unto us, this is because we have believed that Christ died for the ungodly. ( notice what some men do, they will give their life for a good man.)

God commended ( for belief just in Christ) HIs love towards the whole world, for Christ to die for us while we were all sinners. ( with no morals, of any form/as the wages of sin are death.)

Now that we have the love of God given, we also have it told what we are WITHOUT CHARITY, it makes no difference if we think we are in orality to give to the poor, or to even give our body to be burned. ( to turn the other cheek, or to be stubborn to prefer to die than the comply.)

The next proof of this ,is in what was testified to us all, that the examples of faith we had given, of the ones stoned to death, sawn in pieces, killed by the sword, still did not receive the promise. ( of the HOLY GHOST.) as God had provided a better thing for us.

Finally the better thing is told, it is of that ONE who HIS OWN SELF BARE OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BODY ON THE TREE, so we will be DEAD to SINS and LIVE unto RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is the stripes Jesus Christ took for us that healed us, nobody else and nothing else, so why talk about people, and what they do, or what they think, when none of that is relevant IF WE WANT TO LIVE AND NOT DIE ? That alone is what morality is and al else even the conversation, is IMMORALITY.


1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.




Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


1 Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Delvianna said:

Good point. What IS the point of "warning people" about climate change being a hoax and a bank collapse?

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The point? Like a watchman on the city wall, declare what is revealed.

per below, what to do? Just like the true (not religious) believers following Jesus when ww11 occurred.
always do what is right. (cannot be done with the approval of the politic or religious leader who oppose Jesus in the first century and since then)

JAM2b said:

If it is part of the great tribulation, then what exactly are we supposed to do about it?
If God ordained it or warns that it is definitely going to happen, we can't stop it, cause it, speed it up, slow it down, etc.

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JAM2b said:

The best anyone can do is hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and aim for something good, which is what everyone should always be doing regardless of what's to come or who's prophecy is correct or incorrect.

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Objective perspective perhaps ? (just using ai because it is convenient - a convenient and not terrible summary; all must be verified , checked and double-checked as individuals desire more concrete (or sin-thetic proofs) ....
so anyhow, not worth more time .... (on forum; rules of society do not support actual seeking truth; rather increasing seeker friendly members with a seeker friendly (false) gospel )

"The term "medbed" refers to two very different things: a fictional, miracle-healing device promoted in conspiracy theories and real-world "medical beds" used in healthcare settings.
Medbeds as a conspiracy theory
The concept of "medbeds" as a cure-all technology is a hoax with no scientific basis that spread from QAnon and other far-right online groups.

• The claims: Promoters allege that secret, advanced "medbeds" exist, hidden by governments or a "deep state," that can instantly cure any disease, reverse aging, and regenerate limbs using technologies like AI, quantum energy, and terahertz light waves. Some versions even claim the technology is of alien origin.
• The spread: The theory gained traction on platforms like Telegram, TikTok, and QAnon-affiliated message boards, with believers claiming the technology would be released to the public by specific political figures.
• Harmful impact: The medbed conspiracy is a form of medical misinformation that can have dangerous real-world consequences. People suffering from serious illnesses have been known to delay or reject evidence-based medical care while waiting for these nonexistent devices, sometimes paying thousands of dollars to fraudulent companies.
• Fraudulent exploitation: Companies have capitalized on the conspiracy, selling devices and access to "medbeds" with pseudoscientific claims. These products have been subject to warnings from regulatory bodies like the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Medical beds as real-world equipment
Medical beds, also known as hospital beds, are adjustable beds designed for the comfort and care of patients in healthcare facilities or at home.

• Real medical beds vs. "medbeds": Medical beds should not be confused with the fictional "medbed" promoted online. Unlike the mythical devices, real medical beds provide comfort and assistance but have no instant curative powers.
• Purpose: These beds are used to accommodate elderly, disabled, or chronically ill individuals with limited mobility. Features like adjustable height, head, and foot sections help caregivers and improve patient comfort and well-being.
• Smart medical beds: Some real-world "smart" medical beds incorporate technology to solve practical problems. In 2017, for instance, a smart digital medical bed called "MedBed" was designed to help patients gain independence when a nurse is unavailable. This is distinctly different from the fantastical, curative claims of the conspiracy theory.

"

Vambram said:

Netanyahu Nominates Trump to Become the First Non-Israeli to Win the Nation's Highest Award

Prime Minister Netanyahu also addressed the Nobel Peace Prize, suggesting Trump will receive it as well in due time.

www.westernjournal.com

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They can inscribe it with the names of the 70,000 + men, women and children blown up and burnt to death.

Only by the mercies of God, and in his power, are any of us able to do what this talks about here. Only by the grace of God, in God the Father sending Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, to die on a cross and to put our sins to death with him, are any of us able by faith in Jesus Christ to die with Christ to sin and to obey our Lord’s commands in daily practice. All this comes from God and is empowered of God and is gifted to us by God. Not one of us, in our flesh, is deserving of God’s love and grace. All glory belongs to God!!

But Jesus Christ did not give his life up for us on that cross just to forgive us our sins and to promise us heaven as our eternal home. He put our sins to death with him on that cross so that, by God-persuaded faith in him, we will now die to sin and live for God in walks of obedience to his commands, in holy living. By God-gifted faith in the Lord Jesus we are to surrender our lives to God to do his will, and we are to submit to his Lordship over our lives, and we are to die daily to sin and to follow Jesus where he leads us.

Because Jesus Christ put our sins to death with him, we are to die to sin. And because God raised him from the dead, we are to live new lives in Christ Jesus, no longer as slaves to sin, but as servants of righteousness. We are to give our bodies over to God as living and holy sacrifices to God, acceptable to God, which is our spiritual service of worship of God. For worship of God is not just singing songs of worship, and raising our hands, as we see many people doing, but it is in following our Lord in obedience to his commands.

And worship of God is not something we do in a “worship service” via singing songs of praise to God if our lives are not surrendered to the will of God, and if we are not living holy lives, pleasing to God. We may be going through the motions of “worship,” but true worship of God, of Christ Jesus, involves us dying to sin and walking in obedience to our Lord in surrender to the will of God for our lives, in holy living, empowered by God. Our lives are no longer our own to be lived how we want, but they are to be lived for the will of God.

And then we are no longer to be conformed to the ways of this sinful world. We should not look like, act like, speak like, think like, and live like the ungodly of this world. We should not blend in with the culture of the world to be accepted by the people of the world. But we are to be separate (unlike, different) from the world because we are now being conformed by God to the likeness of character of Jesus Christ, as we cooperate fully with God’s work of love and grace in our lives in molding us into his likeness.

For we are now to be transformed in heart and mind and behavior by the grace of God, empowered by God, by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ. Our old lives of living for self and in sin should have been put to death by faith in Jesus Christ. Sin should no longer be our practice, but obedience to God in righteous and holy living is to be what we practice, by the grace of God. Sin should no longer have mastery over our lives, but God should now be Lord and Master of our lives as we now live holy lives which are pleasing to God.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

Oh, to Be Like Thee, Blessed Redeemer

Lyrics by Thomas O. Chisholm, 1897
Music by W. J. Kirkpatrick, 1897

Oh, to be like Thee! blessèd Redeemer,
This is my constant longing and prayer;
Gladly I’ll forfeit all of earth’s treasures,
Jesus, Thy perfect likeness to wear.

Oh, to be like Thee! full of compassion,
Loving, forgiving, tender and kind,
Helping the helpless, cheering the fainting,
Seeking the wandering sinner to find.

O to be like Thee! lowly in spirit,
Holy and harmless, patient and brave;
Meekly enduring cruel reproaches,
Willing to suffer others to save.

O to be like Thee! while I am pleading,
Pour out Thy Spirit, fill with Thy love;
Make me a temple meet for Thy dwelling,
Fit me for life and Heaven above.

Oh, to be like Thee! Oh, to be like Thee,
Blessèd Redeemer, pure as Thou art;
Come in Thy sweetness, come in Thy fullness;
Stamp Thine own image deep on my heart.

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Only By The Mercies of God
An Original Work / October 14, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

U.S. employers announced fewer job cuts in September, but hiring plans fell to their lowest level since 2009, underscoring uncertainty in the labor market, according to a Thursday report.

Companies announced 54,064 job cuts last month, down 37 percent from August and 26 percent lower than the same month a year earlier, outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas said. It was only the third time this year that cuts came in below the same month a year earlier.

"Spiritual problem" is vague. How does he plan to appeal to a wider audience beyond Pentecostals? And the modern GOP mostly uses religion as a wedge issue, one that is unlikely to work in California, which is more religiously diverse.

bèlla said:

I remember the videos too. When I saw an article about a Whole Foods location that didn’t permit entry without scanning something to get in I knew we had to stop shopping there. I found a private dairy source quickly. ~ lol

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I recall one saying the stopping of buying in selling in Canada around the vaccine, but I didn't experience that. So I asked where they were talking about, they shut up real quick.

Conspiracies layered on conspiracies I guess.

d taylor said:

-
​

What should people expect from people who are producing children to either get a check, they are 14, 15, 16, etc.. years old, they are on drugs and trading sex for drugs or all of the above

Do you really think these people are worried or care how these children are going to grow up.

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Agreed. Americans really are their own worst enemy. They’re either high or claiming some kind of benefits. When they are not killing each other.

I’m not anti American (I know some good ones) but they’re just not like us Europeans.

I’m fine with them in general but I wouldn’t want one to marry my son; or even live next door to me.

Too subtle? Should I dial it back?

We are close to one of the main highways, our road leads to our school and a lake and waterfall that people from all over Bangladesh come to visit.
The school is named Be Well.
It includes classrooms, dormitories and a farm where students pass half of their day working.
The place where we are staying is pretty decent, it costs about $100/mos, well above the reach of most Bengali's.
Be well also has as of late included an orphanage, one girl, four boys that are fed, housed and provided for.
Right in front of the building where we are staying is a building where our doctor serves the public.

rjs330 said:

You have to accept the consequences of such actions.

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Even when those consequences abrogate Constitutional rights?