Ro 7:9 is absolutely
not figurative, nor did I say it was.
Paul is speaking there of his
own experience
from the vantage point of his
present understanding.
Before he realized that the law condemned him to death, he was
alive.
"When the commandment came;"
i.e., when Paul
came to the realization that he stood guilty before the law and was condemned to
death.
So, if you aren't using "alive" figuratively, then what exactly does it mean? I'm taking it to mean he was spiritually alive. It looks like you are saying it means psychologically "alive", that it's a point of view, that since he is ignorant of guilt, he doesn't feel condemned. Is this your meaning? If so, then you are certainly interpreting it figuratively. In my mind, "alive" is a literal term, meaning spiritually alive, since he is speaking of the spiritual condition in this passage. If you mean that when the law came to him "I died" means he came to the realization that he is guilty, then you are certainly using it figuratively.
Ro 5:17, 18-19, 14-16, is not mere premise, it is Biblical fact:
What do you mean "mere premise"? Who said the verse was a "mere premise"? You misunderstood what I wrote, and it appears to me you are confusing the text with your interpretation of it. This is the basis of the argument. It does NOT say the sin of Adam is imputed. That's your interpretation. Can you see a difference? You approach the text with the preconceived idea that it means Adam's sin is imputed. But the text doesn't say that. So how you are reading the text is faulty.
death is the wages of
sin (Ro 6:23),
sin is trangression of the law (1 Jn 3:4),
where there is no law, there is no transgresion/sin (Ro 4:15) and, therefore
no death.
When applied to infants, what you quote here could easily mean they are spiritually alive and innocent.
There was no law between Adam and Moses and, therefore, no transgression/sin to cause their deaths.
Then what caused the deaths of those between Adam and Moses when they did not sin against the law?
Their deaths were caused by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:17, 18-19) to all mankind when there was no law to transgress and cause death.
This is your interpretation, which I differ with. In the first place, you are interpreting Paul's statement as "there was no law between Adam and Moses, therefore no transgression." But Paul has to mean something different than that, because there was certainly law, albeit not the law of Moses. Examples: Cain most certainly knew he had violated an unwritten (or unspoken) law "you shall not commit murder." If he thought he was innocent, he would not have lied to God saying he didn't know where Abel was. But he did lie, because he wanted to escape the impending judgment in violation of that moral principle. This is how we know there was law prior to Moses. Another example is when God said to Noah if a man sheds another man's blood (murder), his blood shall be shed (capital punishment). This is most certainly law before Moses. A 3rd example is God rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah because their sins stunk to high heaven. In this we can see there was most certainly law and transgression prior to Moses. Therefore Paul had to mean something different than what you claim.
Sin is sin regardless of whether one knows it or not. Ignorance of the law does not make someone innocent, not guilty, or not a sinner. So everyone who sinned prior to Moses still suffered the consequences, which was death.
Physical death wasn't "natural"
until Adam sinned. . .physical death is the
consequence of Adam's sin.
Now I see where your problem is.
Mine is not a figurative but a
literal understansing of
Ro 5:12-19 (post #7), where in
Ro 5:17, 18-19 Adam's sin is
imputed to all those of Adam, and which imputation is the
pattern (
Ro 5:14) for Christ's righteousness being
imputed to all those of Christ (
Ro 5:18-19).
I disagree with you, you only see a problem because I am disagreeing. No, your understanding is figurative, mine is literal. But you can't see that, can you? In that whole passage Paul is talking about spiritual death, not physical. Therefore, my interpretation is literal, in line with Paul's conversation.
And I disagree with your premise "physical death wasn't "natural"
until Adam sinned." Nowhere does the scripture say that. Rom. 5 is speaking of spiritual life and death, not physical life and death. Adam died because he was denied access to the tree of life. This is clearly taught in Genesis. Physical and material death is all around us as a natural process, so your theory doesn't hold water.
Can you see the truth in my response here?
.
