So presidential. He didn't even draw a mustache on Biden's face with a sharpie.

I think every school should have a debate club where everyone agrees with each other.

Stops them from bothering other people.

I think its all linked, 'they who conquered by the blood of the lamb, by the word of their testimoney and they loved not their lives even unto death.

These three aspects go together and on their own are not the same.

What is the testimony. It is their testimony of the blood of the lamb which is Christ. Christs blood conquers satan, sin and death.

But I think the last part, "for they loved not their lives even unto death" is the reality that occurs in the world. This is the evidence of Christs blood defeating death in that those who testify on the blood of the lamb are willing to give up their earthly lives as part of that testimony. Making it real in this life and the next.

Valletta said:

They used them as pawns all in a quest for one-party control of the country.

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How so?

fhansen said:

The real problem is people in general. Even the holiest of us will be imperfect relative to God. So some degree of corruption or compromise will always prevail here on this earth. But does that mean we should just give up and isolate ourselves?

Humans are both individual and social beings. Our relationship with God is individual but also corporate as the Body, with a unity, also yet imperfect in this life, that we were created to have.

So do we ignore injustice in this world, or, alternatively, simply depend on the goodwill of believers to somehow prevent or rectify injustices? Or, instead, does a just socieity unite together under some model of government and legislate against immoral behavior such as, say murder? Or against the excesses that capitalists might go to maximize profits, including the exploitation of labor, creation of monopolies, etc? Anyway, as long as people are involved there can be no perfect political or governmental system; they're all compromises that we must nonetheless use in order to promote the common good, hopefully guided by Christian principles to the best we can.

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Thats a good way of putting it and I agree. It seems that all of the political ideas and beliefs and wars are happening within a certain realm that is of the world.

As all humans know Gods laws you don't have to be a Christian to know this. But the world will have their ideas about what this represents and how we can order society and the world to apply this.

So for Gods Kingdom and Christs church as a community of Christians we are no of that realm in which these battles happen. We can pull out the value and moral similarities that come from politicial and civil ideologies. But they are not within the same realm and we can easily be overcome when trying to work within that worldly realm.

I think for Christians its a completely different realm and not of this world and as a community we have to be different in how we present the gospel and Christ to the world. If we mix it with world ideologies and within that frame we will lose. We will be competing on their terms.

So I think that means the only way to differentiate is Christ. It sounds simple but doing so is different to the war of words within the political arena. In fact it seems that todays arena is a post modernist one which undermines Christs truth by claiming there is no truth. So words themselves become the reality. You can't beat narratives about persoanl and subjective truths from experiences.

But what is the one thing everyone agrees on and which has turned people away from God. Its hypocracy. Its talking the talk and not walking the walk. They never see clearly the reality of Christ working within His church.

So logically if we apply this to Christians who are suppose to be the ones who are transfromed to be Christlike. If more Christians actually live what Christ taught in the bible then it stands to reason that Christians would not only have the words but live the words.

Thus being one group who cannot be accused as hypocrites.

Now that would doubly turn heads. Because not only for once is a group actually doing what they preach. But they are displaying what is suppose to be the very examples Peter says that will turn peoples heads to God without any words spoken.

The reason why I ask this is that our church leaders regard the communion service as really a tradition that needs to be done but doesn't engage them personally. It's the only time they ever use the liturgy. That part is just bolted onto the service. And in administering the bread they all utter a flawed statement. "This is my body, broken for you". Jesus's body was not broken. It's not in their liturgy nor the pew bibles. It's specifically prophesied AGAINST. He was whipped and bruised but "Not one bone shall be broken...". I think our leaders are just...embarrassed. It's all so primitive for them. Cannibalism...etc
They prefer to preach about refugees, boat people, women's issues. But IN HEAVEN they celebrate the victory of Christ on the cross over the devil, the world and our rebellious estrangement from God. And the Angels glorify the Son and celebrate. What do you think?

Dan1988 said:

Please enlighten me, by showing me where the Bible says that unbelievers are annihilated, or that they cease to exist. Save yourself the headache and don't bother looking for that non existent doctrine, you will never find any such nonsense in the bible.

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Enlighten you? Doubtful that will happen. Many people have shown you scripture that you continue to ignore. It's apparent you're not interested in having an honest biblical discussion. So why bother? You're just going to continue with your one sided rants that have proven nothing beyond the fact that your so indoctrinated at this point. Hopefully down the line you'll be open to some honest discussion but at this point no one can even discuss scripture with you because you continue to ignore the ones posted.

Stopped_lurking said:

I also have problem posting, and editing posts.

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Might be a sign this thread might have a mod looking through it.

Might, I say.

Nicolai said:

Frankly the question I want to ask if "How do you deal with there NOT being any evidence for any of that" or "How do you make sense of archaeological evidence directly contradicting the Old Testament (the size of Israel/Jerasulem under David & Solomon for one).".

I cannot stop thinking about this question! Every time I watch any content and they talk about Moses, Solomon, or David all I can think of is that they never existed the way the OT says. If they did why is there zero evidence to support those claims? We have records to support the claims made by the OT after the alleged reign of David but it would seem that everything written in the OT prior to the 8thish century is just cultural & national narrative. I try to understand this on a spiritual level and not on a literal but I can't stop thinking about it.

Has anyone else struggled with this? Is there evidence I am missing? Is there a way to think about this that doesn't make much of the Pentateuch essentially historical fiction?

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I think this will depend on the amount and quality of evidence. That in itself can be subjective and based on false assumptions due to a lack of data.

Part of this is understanding the context which not only includes the stories in relation to the Hebrew religion and culture but also of the entire worldview at the time and whether the stories are meant to be more of a spiritual revelation than completely reliant on scientific or verified eye witness accounts.

There are so many factors that need to be considered that I am surprised that anyone could make any truth claims without such investigation.

The only topic I know something about is the Exodus and as far as I see opinions have changed over time as new evidence or understandings come in. That in itself tells us that whatever it was that so called experts claimed as the facts was based on poor data.

Part of the problem may be the timelines and not necessarily whether something matches the biblical stories. But timelines themselves are questionable.

But we have clear evidence for much of what happened. In fact we now have evidence from the Egyptian side of the story which matches the bible. Such as the telling of the 10 plagues that hit Egypt at around this time by the Egyptians themselves. Speaking of plagues, rivers running red, sons dying and crops and cattle failing. This cannot just be a coincident.

There are other evidences I could cite. But as far as I know the evidence actually supports the Exodus story. It may not 100% but then some of that is more about perspective than reality. But there is clear evidence of a proto Isrealites in Egypt who rose up to become prominent and then escaped into the desert with many others.

Then we have them entering Canaan. We even have some evidence of the places they stopped. Mt Sinai, the alters with evidence of animal sacrifice. A memorial placed at the point where the Isrealites crossed the Red sea. Theres evidence from Egyptian Steles and letters and archeology.

I am not sure how deep you have gone into this but there are some good research out there and its amazing that people don't know this.

Actual EVIDENCE for the Exodus​

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PloverWing said:

I wouldn't want to have to draw Jesus in the poses that Charlie Hebdo chose for Muhammad, just to demonstrate that I'm different from Timothy McVeigh. Nobody should die over offensive speech, but nobody should be compelled to repeat the offensive speech, either.

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peter2 said:

The 4 evangelists have obviously disapproved all what they did to Jesus up to death, however silently.
Yet, i assume they considered a duty to write the Gospel.

Besides, i certainly would have disapproved an offending caricature of Jesus.
Yet, if a teacher teaching his pupils to keep cool had to be beheaded for showing them this document, i would also certainly have considered it a christian duty (to testify of this posthumous suffering of Jesus) to publish the document myself, in order to tell the whole story (even with illustrated caricatures).
it looks like i'm not worshipping the same person as muslims do

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May i conclude, please, from the non response there's no reason for me to think i've mistaken ?

Or, may be my message was not clear enough (?)
Please, could someone at least just tell me whether it was clear or not..

ViaCrucis said:

Fun tree fact: Trees exist all over the globe. People of many different cultures and religions have included trees into their mythologies, practices, and symbolism. Because trees are ubiquitous.

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Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking that a nativity scene might be the most unambiguous decoration to use. Sometimes ambiguity is not good when clarity is needed. God Bless and Happy Christmas

rjs330 said:

that ye should remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and the commandment of the Lord and Saviour through your apostles: knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming?

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I’m very glad that you find value, comfort and certainty, in the Bible.

My own thoughts are along the lines of the Bible being an excellent ancient set-of-texts, mostly intact for a 2600 years.
Decent, (if not entirely accurate) historical record of a people who Wrote worthwhile things down, even if it shades a bit in Israel’s favor.

That’s its “worth” to me; you’ll differ in my estimation of the Bible, I’m sure.
That’s great!

And while politics got me out of religion, (that’s just gravy though), I’m ever grateful to the subject/hobby*, I do not regret my time within a church.

Thanks for caring enough to continually deal with those of us (who are guests here) who cannot find their way to believe the same things as our gracious hosts.

Have a great night/morning!


*politics, not religion

keras said:

Please write out where Jesus mentions His Return in Matthew 24:36-44

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I've quoted these verses before.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

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He doesn't say; "you don't know when the fiery wrath will begin" or anything else. He is talking about the coming of the Lord or Son of Man (himself).
The "fiery wrath" or a "CME" is not the Lord or the Son of Man.

keras said:

We know His 'coming' in fiery wrath,

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So you say.

keras said:

It is obvious that the event that comes unexpectedly, is not the Glorious Return.

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It's obvious to you and you're telling everyone else that this is the case.

No, air conditioning isn't common in Australian churches. No church I've worked in, or regularly worshipped in, has had it. Generally cooling is some very ineffective fans (heating is better).

samaus123456789 said:

You are really not wise are you.

• “Is the Didascalia Apostolorum written by the apostles?”

The correct answer based on exegesis is yes the text claims to be written by the apostles. You personally do not believe it is vs we scholars do( see what I did there).
You do not do exegesis you do eisegesis - you start with the assumption the internal claims to authorship are a lie for all these texts, then reject the internal claim of authorship of them. You believe the torah is pseudepigrapha but you are so dishonest you will not say it publicly. Chat GPT will assume the text is pseudepigrapha because websites written by people like you, and it was trained on that data which is why I have to tell it to do exegesis - that is assume the text is historical, and not pseudepigrapha.

Acts of Pilate is just one section of Gosp of Nic. There is another section not written by Pilate.

Also I forgot to ask- are you Christian? I will not waste my time any more if you are not.

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I'm a Christian, and a New Testament scholar of thirty years. You still need not waste your time, because I don't intend to waste time on someone like you. I have better things to do with my time than try to convince people of facts who can't be convinced of anything beyond the sound of their own voice.

You have a great day. I won't read your response, so don't bother.

Apple Sky said:

He didn't he is known as 'Odysee'.

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No, Odysee is the name of the video channel he used:

"ODSYSEE Explore a whole universe of videos on Odysee "

That was from Odysee's home page: Odysee

Good point/Post..
What you read..is correct.

I hope other judges will realize they are not above the law.

Maybe a modern day example might be to be wary of those who bring financial giving or selling of products into healing or gospel presentations. Perhaps they should not be given a platform in church. God Bless All.

Hello

It reminds me of Jn 4 : "23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

i don't mean decorating a chrismas tree would be a lying worshipping, but may be it is an external one, distinct from this internal the Father is seeking for

Always in His Presence said:

Growing up in the Roman Catholic Church the Crucifix was always the symbol we had in the home. After leaving the church and becoming Pentecostal, now it is a Cross.

Which do you choose, and why.

Let's show our good Christian attitude and take jabs at each other.

For me - I choose the Cross, because I view it like I view the empty tomb - the Risen Savior.

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Never thought over this. Thank you for the thread. i use indifferently both

The Barbarian said:

No point in denial.

But you can't find any?

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I listed a litany of lies I feel Reiner spewed. It's not my job to make you move away from deceit and dishonesty that the Democrats victimized Trump with since 2017:


•he said that Trump posed a threat to American democracy.
•In 2017 he said he believed Trump was “mentally unfit” to serve as president
•he said Trump is the single most unqualified human being to ever assume the presidency of the United States
•he said Trump showed no interest in trying to find out how government works
•In 2024, he said that another Trump presidency could turn the United States from a democracy into an “autocracy.”
•he said Trump "can probably spell the word ‘bible’, I don’t think he’s ever read it and I don’t think he has any idea what’s in it."
•he said this about us Christians who support Trump, "but they excuse all that by saying God works in mysterious ways, and that he sent us this flawed vessel by which we can achieve the goals that we want to achieve."
•he called Trump a criminal
•he said Trump "basically lies every minute of his life”
•he once compared Trump’s repeated political comebacks to a “zombie or a cockroach.”
•he said Trump has declared war on this democracy.
•he said Trump takes funds that were appropriated by Congress and then refuses to distribute them, in clear contradiction to the Constitution, the separation of powers.
•he said Trump was threatening the Hollywood community's First Amendment rights.

rjs330 said:

While Denmark recognizes the Luthern Church it gas moved beyond it. Its difficult to say its a Christian country when only 2% of its population attend church. It is a deeply secular country now.

A lot of Danes still keep some of its traditions, but its more tradition based rather than a actual religious based.

I would consider a Christian Nation to be one where the vast majority of people are practicing their faith and BIblical values are paramount in the governance.

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Are there any christian nations using that definition?

Unprecedented errors are eroding the credibility of Trump's Justice Department


In a subsequent legal opinion, a federal magistrate judge said the errors were part of a broader pattern of unprecedented prosecutorial missteps, resulting in a 21% dismissal rate of the D.C. U.S. Attorney's office's criminal complaints over eight weeks, compared to a mere 0.5% dismissal rate over the prior 10 years.

_______

These mistakes are causing department attorneys to lose credibility with federal courts, with some judges quashing subpoenas, threatening criminal contempt and issuing opinions that raise questions about their conduct. Grand juries have also in some cases started rejecting indictments, a highly unusual event since prosecutors control what evidence gets presented.

________


A federal judge in November dismissed the charges against Comey, finding the indictment was secured by an unlawfully appointed U.S. Attorney who was hand-picked by Trump after her predecessor expressed concerns about the strength of the evidence against Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James.

Even before that ruling, the case was troubled: A magistrate judge said he uncovered a plethora of errors by U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan, from misstatements of law to the grand jury, to possible misconduct that included presenting evidence to grand jurors that was not filtered to remove privileged materials between Comey and his attorney.

________

At least some of the legal blunders are being caused by a loss of institutional knowledge, legal experts said.

From January through November, public records show the department has lost more than 2,900 attorneys - triple the number of those who left in each of the previous four years.

Lackadaisical.