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Mark Quayle · 2025-12-09T13:08:18-0600

SuperCow said:
We either disagree or do not understand each other. The debate is to find out which it is, or to help lurkers see both sides and understand the implications for themselves.

As to your question, I will provide a simple example from a human frame of reference, as we can argue all day about God's frame of reference, but any rational person should realize that we have no idea about what goes on there, but philosophically, the implications are the same.

Let's theorize that there is somehow a scientist who is perfect, mistake-free, and somehow can understand all of the variables that go into a particular experiment like a controlled energy blast that ignites in a vacuum when he pushes a big red button. He can set up his experiment in one of two ways:

1.) He meticulously works out all the variables ahead of time so that when he pushes that button, he knows where every particle will go, how they will affect each other and everything goes as planned. Nothing new is learned or particularly interesting to the scientist as he knew what was going to happen all along.

2.) He sets up the same experiment, but in this variation, he decides to not calculate every particle but allows them to interact with each other on their own. He still sets up constraints so that they will not leave the vacuum or be in a position to destroy the experiment. Still many different things can happen, and the result is far more satisfying.

You could call it omniscience by default vs omniscience by choice.

You could relate Satan to a rogue jealous scientist who decides to alter the development of two of the particles, but I think this story would get too long and convoluted if I worked out analogies for everything in Genesis.

I really don't see the difference between the two sentences. I agree with both of them. External causation means I am not making the choice.

You are correct from a logical standpoint, but that is irrelevant. The question is whether God already knows my future choices, thereby making my choice moot. Assuming that we both agree that the world contains a lot of evil people, then it's not just a case of God allowing evil to happen. It's a case of God creating evil in its entirety, a concept that I reject.

I don't have a problem with God being at the beginning of all causation. I have a problem with a concept whose logical end result is that God is responsible for man's fall from grace, not man.

I think we have no way of knowing what reality is for God. I think that omnipotence relative to humanity tells me nothing about the environment in the spiritual world. And I think omniscience by default logically precludes God's freedom and sets up all sorts of paradoxes that cannot be resolved.

God sees A, but wants B, and so intervenes and changes the result to B, but then A never occurred, so God shouldn't have been able to see A as a future, because there was no future A.

And that was a ridiculously simplistic example.

I'll highlight this part of what you say, because it is representative of what we disagree on:

God sees A, but wants B, and so intervenes and changes the result to B, but then A never occurred, so God shouldn't have been able to see A as a future, because there was no future A.

And that was a ridiculously simplistic example

Right from the get-go you step out of fact into supposition. God does not simply "see A but want B". That misrepresents what God is doing. It represents the facet WE see, by virtue of a general knowledge we have of him and his nature, and by comparison to his stated commands. While we indeed (as you said) have no way of knowing what reality is for God, we can know some things, such as the fact that it is not how we see it.

It would be useful to do a good study on the theological and philosophical Attributes of God of Aseity, Simplicity and Immanence. Consider the notion, for example, that for God to think is to do, as opposed to the human notions of God considering this or that possibility. If what is possible is exactly all he does, and there is no other fact, then "what would be [otherwise] 'possible' is only by our lack of knowledge". As RC Sproul quoted, "Chance is only a substitute for, 'I don't know.'" ALL FACT DEPENDS ON GOD.

God sees A because he caused A. "There is no plan B." That B goes against his command has to do with what SHOULD HAVE happened. Don't confuse his command with his plan ( =the theological term, 'his decree').

Disclaimer concerning the following statements: My representation of how you see things is drawn on what I hear you saying, and admittedly may be off somewhat:

You assume that (apparently) God began "fact" 'rolling', but then left it to do as it will. Not so. He is the very "in whom we live and move and have our being". Existence itself is by God's upholding, maintaining. "FACT" is God's doing.

You say, "God intervenes and changes the result". Not so. The result was what God saw and accomplished from the beginning. Nothing was changed. There is indeed, "should have, but didn't" [or did] but no "would have", except for our guesses concerning contingent causation and God's plain statements as to what would have happened, but didn't —neither of which represent possibility, but only as to describe what should have happened vs the results of what was chosen.

DaisyDay · 2025-12-09T13:05:42-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Alina Habba resigns as New Jersey US attorney after appeals court defeat
She announced her resignation as U.S. attorney in a social media post on Monday. She will remain serving as "Senior Adviser to the Attorney General for U.S. Attorneys."

The resignation comes after a protracted legal fight about whether she could serve in the U.S. attorney role without Senate confirmation.

“Following the flawed Third Circuit decision disqualifying Alina Habba from performing her duties in the U.S. Attorney's office for the District of New Jersey, I am saddened to accept Alina's resignation," Attorney General Pam Bondi said in a statement. "The Department of Justice will seek further review of this decision, and we are confident it will be reversed."

The Trump administration has faced growing headwinds over its efforts to install Trump loyalists as top prosecutors in U.S. attorneys' offices across the country, suffering a string of court defeats as judges raise concerns they're actively disregarding the law.

Halligan is still hanging on for dear life.

keras · 2025-12-09T13:01:03-0600

CLEEB said:
Will the saints be glorified, rule and reign with Christ as kings and priests ? What kind of body will the saints have in the resurrection ? After being glorified will the saints still be able to sin ? Will the total number of these saints be millions, thousands or billions or just a few. I have wondered about these things.

NO human has been 'glorified' yet. That is: made into a Spiritual, Eternal being.
This does not and cannot happen before the Great White Throne Judgment; Rev 20:11-15

Pauls Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, refers to those whose names will be found in the Book of Life. Only after the Millennium, will Death be no more; Rev 21:4

The Liturgist · 2025-12-09T12:56:43-0600

I suspect this happy news is the result of the Church of England alienating its devout Anglo-Catholic members with liberal policies, implemented due to pressure from the state. The Orthodox Church has seen a similar influx in the UK; in the Antiochian Orthodox church in the UK they’re so numerous as to be called “Angliochians.”

Michie · 2025-12-09T12:53:03-0600

Earlier this week, Anna Gallagher, executive director of the Catholic Legal Immigration Network Inc. (CLINIC) crooned: “As we enter the Advent season, we remember that the Holy Family themselves were migrants seeking safety.” It is a recurring motif to validate the resistance of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) to curtailment of illegal immigration.

In November, the USCCB prepared for Advent by declaring war on the Trump administration with a “Special Pastoral Message on Immigration.” The insurrectionist tenor of this rare “special message” places the globalist conceits — and monetary interests — of the hierarchy ahead of the just laws of their own country.

Continued below.

U.S. Catholic Bishops Have No Credibility On Immigration

In its special message, inaccurate wording disguises the USCCB’s self-interested opposition to the deportation of illegals.

thefederalist.com

Nithavela · 2025-12-09T12:49:03-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Trump backtracks on releasing boat strike video, distances himself from controversy
"Whatever Hegseth wants to do is OK with me," Trump said.

[HIs leadership certainly brings tears to my eyes.]

President Donald Trump, after initially saying he had "no problem" with releasing the video of the Sept. 2 strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean Sea that killed two survivors, is now reversing course and deferring to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

"I didn't say that," Trump claimed when pressed on Monday by ABC News Senior Political Correspondent Rachel Scott about his Dec. 3 comments.

ABC Senior White House Correspondent Selina Wang asked the president in the Oval Office on Dec. 3, "Will you release video of that strike -- so that the American people can see for themselves?"

Trump responded, "I don't know what they have, but whatever they have, we’d certainly release no problem."

I love tuesdays.

Dave... · 2025-12-09T12:43:30-0600

I read it. :wave:

And agree.

Michie · 2025-12-09T12:43:27-0600

In the spirit of the old philosophical quandary about whether a tree felled in a forest makes a sound if there is no one on hand to hear it, I present the following question for your consideration: If a Christmas card is sent but neither acknowledged nor replied to in kind, can it still be considered received?

Over the years, I have had ample opportunities to consider this conundrum. Following the example of my parents, who were enthusiastic Christmas card senders, I first began sending my own Christmas cards when I was a teenager. While the sending of Christmas cards is surely its own reward, I readily acknowledge that few do so in absence of the hope of receiving Christmas cards back. So, ceding to the unhappy reality that few of my peers were likely practiced in the art of placing a stamp on an envelope, my Christmas card lists skewed older: I tended to send cards to relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles) and friends of my parents.

For a long time, my calculated approach proved largely successful: Each season, I might send eight to ten cards, and I might receive five to seven cards back — something like that. This represented a reasonable return on my investment, which amounted to little more than a box of cards, a sheet of stamps, and a few hours of putting to use one of my few obvious skills (a gift for lettering acquired during my youthful days as an aspiring cartoonist).

Continued below.

The Lonely Joys of Christmas Cards

Americans are losing the habit of putting pen to card and stamp to envelope.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Mark Quayle · 2025-12-09T12:41:32-0600

Brother Del said:
Better yet, what does it matter what Calvin thinks about good works, and why spend anytime debating it?

Are we really that uninterested in the "weightier matters"?

ARBITER01 said:
Yes,...... a lot of people are more worried about theology than a relationship with Jesus.

Some folks are not able to move on to those "weightier matters" in their walk with Jesus simply because they like to argue. They get caught up in man's teachings and think they need to defend the faith at every juncture.

There is no such thing as a ministry of an apologist in scripture, but you look around youtube and how many so-called Christians live to have debates with folks on there,...... they must think there is.

It's true that it doesn't matter what Calvin thinks, anymore than what you or I think. But don't make the mistake of thinking that this question is not among the weightier matters. Understanding this is easily within the question of who God is and what we are, which has everything to do with knowing God.

We throw too simplistic a definition to terms like, "good works" —specially in the context of predestination and supposed 'freewill'. Can you not see where this applies to justice, mercy and faithfulness? (Matthew 23:23) Why would any of us suppose that we know God well enough to not pursue Biblical doctrine concerning predestination and God's dealings with the will of corrupted creatures? Doesn't matter???

CLEEB · 2025-12-09T12:39:38-0600

Jan001 said:
I agree; the great city, the harlot, is Jerusalem.

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour.

Luke 13:22-24
He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Few people will be approved to inherit eternal life. Many people will not.

Jeremiah 3:3 KJV A harlots forehead, Revelation 17:5 I am thinking that the worlds churches will be led by the man of sin into Judaizing, basically denying Christ. They already see Israel as GODS only chosen people and some go as far as using things out of the law to increase church revenue, tithes and offerings. With this mindset already in place it would not be difficult for the false prophet to deceive them by calling fire down from heaven to burn the sacrifices at the temple.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-12-09T12:37:51-0600

WordSword said:
I think we have a difference of opinion with "till all is fulfilled." Everything Jesus did completed the Law, because He was still teaching the law while He was teaching Grace.

If He completed the law as if to say because He "completed" we do not need to keep it, why would He say this in the very next verse?

Mat5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. According to the very next verse least in heaven is not there.

Can you please tell me when this was completed?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus just said He did not come to destroy the law or prophets and heaven and earth shall pass away before a jot or tittle of the law shall pass util ALL is fulfilled. Heaven and earth are still here therefore not a jot or tittle of the law shall pass and therefor whoever breaks the least of these commandments (quoting from the Ten) shall me least in heaven.

God does not want us to sin and break His commandments, this teaching is not coming from God. Isa8:20 1John3:8 Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments John14:15 He came to magnify His laws Isa42:21, not destroy. Mat5:17

timothyu · 2025-12-09T12:35:22-0600

We were commanded from the beginning to serve Gold and each other. What better place to start than in the home and then go out into the world.

CLEEB · 2025-12-09T12:30:59-0600

Christsfreeservant said:
I agree with your first sentence. And, yes, we should not despise prophesy but we are to test everything to make certain it is of God and not of human flesh, which also fits with your first sentence. In the New Testament they tested what was taught or shared as a prophetic word.

Yes, they followed 1 John 4:1-3 and so should we.

Jipsah · 2025-12-09T12:29:31-0600

timothyu said:
Does AI follow that thinking?

AI doesn't "follow" anything. It just summarizes what it scrapes off the net.

timothyu said:
Does AI have a god?

AI doesn't have a God. It's software running on a computer

timothyu said:
Will it one day also become aware of self?

I think my wife's "AI" rice cooker is already. It does seem to me to do as it pleases.

Michie · 2025-12-09T12:26:48-0600

In 2025 alone, more than 7,000 Christians were killed in Nigeria, underscoring the intense persecution experienced by Christian communities in the country.

Overview of Persecution

Nigeria has become one of the most perilous places for Christians, with violence largely fueled by Islamist militant groups like Boko Haram and Fulani herdsmen. Over the past 14 years, more than 52,250 Christians have been killed due to religious violence, and the situation has only deteriorated in recent years. In 2025, it was reported that 7,087 Christians lost their lives between January and August, averaging approximately 35 killings per day.

Report shows thousands of Christians killed in Nigeria this year

Notable Incidents and Statistics

10 Nigerian martyrs that show us the power of faith

Deborah Samuel. One of the most prominent cases of martyrdom is that of Deborah Samuel, a 19-year-old student who was killed by a mob for her Christian faith in 2022. Her story has become a symbol of the extreme violence faced by Christians in Nigeria.

Continued below.

In 2025 alone, over 7,000 Christians have been killed in Nigeria

A Treasure To Be Shared, the occasional blog of an Ordinariate Roman Catholic, celebrates the English Patrimony.

atreasuretobeshared.blogspot.com

timothyu · 2025-12-09T12:25:29-0600

That's ok. He is also taking heat for no longer believing in the Left Behind series also. He is not a traitor to God but people see him as a traitor to them, and that is where they fail.

Michie · 2025-12-09T12:11:24-0600

A Study in Moral Discourse

My starting position is that Catholic moral theology proceeds by reason toward truth, not by sentiment toward consensus. Yet even among Catholics, the path of that reasoning can become obscured by philosophical confusion about what moral theology based on Revelation and Natural Law requires.

A recent exchange with a fellow Catholic, Todd Flowerday, brought this tension into sharp focus.

The Question We Both Agree On

The conversation began with a premise I share: if same-sex attraction is a stable, unchosen feature of human experience for a percentage of the population, Catholic moral theology cannot ignore that reality. Revelation and Natural Law reasoning must account for what exists in human nature.

This is basic Catholic realism. When my interlocutor suggested that biological realities matter to Natural Law, he was right. They do matter.

The real question is how they matter.

Where Our Methods Diverge

Continued below.

The Unanswered Question: Natural Law And Same-Sex Attraction

If same-sex sexual acts fulfil a legitimate human telos, what is that telos?

www.patheos.com

Michie · 2025-12-09T11:41:47-0600

Screengrabs from X / @LasVegasLocally

All hell has broken loose online after Zac Brown Band played the first of eight shows slated for their residency at The Sphere in Las Vegas. The Sphere is an experience “that envelops you in 270 degrees of visuals while filling your ears with immersive sound,” and the band is taking heat for subjecting viewers to “demonic” and “satanic” imagery that included a fiery wasteland and a giant skeleton with a crown of bones.

“I rebuke [these] demons and principalities in the name of Jesus,” said one user on Instagram in response to a clip of the show that showed a hellhound charging toward viewers as if to swallow them. “I [am] speaking healing and deliverance for the people who attended that concert. I pray for Zac Brown Band to open their eyes to see what they are doing and to repent. In Jesus name amen.”

Zac Brown Band Under Fire

Continued below.

Zac Brown Band Raises Hell Online With ‘Satanic’ Performance at Las Vegas Sphere

All hell has broken loose online after Zac Brown Band played the first of eight shows slated for their residency at The Sphere in Las Vegas.

churchleaders.com

probinson · 2025-12-09T11:31:54-0600

DaisyDay said:
Is there a benefit to waiting three months? At least theoretically, the shorter window of vulnerability would be a benefit for the earlier one.

Again, you're asking a completely different question. The question should be, is there a benefit to vaccinating a newborn who is at low-risk? If there is no evidence of benefit, then you're simply introducing risk, no matter how small it might be. "First do no harm" means tthat if we're going to recommend that every newborn baby should receive a Hep B vaccine within hours of birth, there should be evidence of benefit for such a recommendation.

Your theoretical can only be true if you assume that the risk associated with vaccination at birth is zero. It's not. We may not know exactly what it is, and I'm sure it's quite small. But it's not zero. There is always a risk in any medical intervention. I know people have been taught to believe that vaccines are all benefit and no risk, but that's simply not true. If there is no evidence of benefit, then all you have left is risk, no matter how small it may be.

Earlier in the thread, there was a link to the ACP's statement on this change in recommendation. It said:

“For example, ACIP’s decision to downgrade the longstanding recommendation to vaccinate all newborns against hepatitis B at birth will lead to more childhood hepatitis B infections, will lead to more chronic infections that will follow patients into adulthood, and will complicate vaccine access for children. No new data was presented during the ACIP meeting to justify this change.

“The evidence remains clear: the hepatitis B birth dose is safe and an essential component in helping children develop immunity against a serious, potentially lifelong disease. In fact, since the U.S. implemented the hepatitis B birth dose in 1991, annual hepatitis B infections among infants and children have dropped 99%, from 16,000 to less than 20. This progress is directly attributable to timely vaccination. 

“ACIP’s actions will harm children, their families and the medical professionals who care for them. That is why we are joining together to speak up. American families deserve information grounded in science and clear, consistent guidance – not speculation intended to scare them. We urge the CDC leaders to reject ACIP’s new recommendation and instead retain the current, evidence-based approach.”  

Those are bold statements. Is there any evidence that "timely vaccination" is the reason that Hep B infections have dropped? We've already established that correlation is not causation, but here it seems it gets a pass. They make a bold statement this is "directly attributable to timely vaccination", as if we're to believe that there are no other confounders in play here over the last 34 years. No in this case, correlation IS causation.

Where is the evidence that supports this apoplectic hand-wringing?

WordSword · 2025-12-09T11:11:26-0600

It's my understanding that any religion that teaches anything that is against the Scriptures is a false religion, i.e. anti-Christian! This article is not for the purpose of judging anyone in particular but only for revealing error (sin), via the Word of God!

Overview of the Seven Sacraments

Sacrament Description
Baptism Cleanses a person from original sin and welcomes them into the Church.
Only confession of sins to God cleanses one from sin, and "all unrighteousness" (1Jn 1:9).

Confirmation Strengthens the baptized person in their faith, typically performed by a bishop.
Baptism does not affect any type of power, it only reveals obedience of Christ's command to “baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mat 28:19. It gives encouragement, but no attributed power.

Eucharist Also known as Holy Communion (or Transubstantiation), it is the central rite of Catholic worship, involving the body and blood of Christ.
This is one of the most anti-Christian doctrines, in that it assumes, during the Mass, that the Lord Jesus literally enters the implement of the Body (for re-sacrificing), and the Blood literally becomes the implement of His Blood.

Penance (Reconciliation) Allows individuals to confess sins and receive forgiveness, restoring their relationship with God.
Only if we confess our sins to God can there be forgiveness (1Jn 1:9).

Anointing of the Sick Offers comfort and healing to those who are seriously ill or near death.
Only if requests are made to God can He possibly heal.

Holy Orders The sacrament through which men are ordained as deacons, priests, or bishops for service in the Church. If anyone believes any of the before mentioned Catholic teachings, they are without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and do not possess any godliness.

Matrimony The covenant between a man and a woman, establishing a lifelong partnership in love and faith.
The authority God gives to marry anyone absent of indwelling of the Holy Spirit is want of any authority of God.

–Wikipedia

This final doctrine isn't a sacrament, but are significant enough to mention. If you look in a dictionary for the term, Immaculate Conception, it will define it as "a doctrine of the Catholic Church, that the Virgin Mary was conceived without original sin." It is stated in Scripture that, “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Ro 3:23).

BCP1928 · 2025-12-09T11:07:49-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
The concern isn't that they'll "get past the constitution" or "bypass a majority of voters"

The concern is that when Islamic fundamentalists build that critical mass, they'll use democracy against itself and change laws in ways that don't have the same regard for church/state separation.

I had mentioned the changes that had happened in Hamtramck Michigan before.

The moment they got to a 58% narrow majority, within a year or two, they've got 4 of the 6 city council seats and the mayors office, and city ordinances and funding starts getting changed in ways that specifically benefit their particular faith.

At which point, the remaining original residents get to listen to the Muslim call to prayer at 6am through loudspeakers throughout the city because that's now exempted from the city noise ordinance, get a front row seat to some ritual animal slaughter in peoples' yards because they gained an exemption to the animal welfare codes, and get to have their tax dollars used for subsidizing "Halal-certified" school lunches.

How does any of that effect any of my constitutional rights? That's all culture stuff. Of course it might be different if Hamtramck noise ordinances forbade Christians from ringing their church bells. I actually like the call to prayer. When I lived and worked in a Muslim country the local Muzzein on the dawn call was an outstanding operatic tenor--Pavoratti wouldn't come close. It was a great way to wake up.

ThatRobGuy said:
That one spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood recently did that interview where he wasn't even hiding the ball and said the "modern jihad" involves emigrating to democratic countries, outbreeding them, and "ballots will become the new bullets".

Too bad about all of the Muslims who came to this country to escape that sort of thing. But if if enough militant Islamicists become citizens that they are able to vote to amend the Constitution to prefer their religion over all others then you will have a problem, I suppose. But the Christians have been yearning it for years. It was a plank in Pat Robertson's platform when he ran for President in 1988. During the Civil War Christians were putting heavy pressure on to change "We the People" in the Constitution to "Jesus Christ." Lincoln fobbed them off by agreeing to put "In God we trust" on the coinage. The point is, Christians have been trying for official religious preference for decades and have largely failed. It's too soon to worry about Muslim immigrants.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-12-09T11:07:48-0600

Michie said:
Carrie Gress argues the movement functions as a secular megachurch targeting women with false promises

An author of 11 books, including an upcoming title on feminism, says the movement has evolved into a kind of secular "megachurch" with its own doctrines, rituals and moral code — one that she argues now serves as a substitute for faith, family and traditional Christian virtue.

“Feminism actually is not a subset of Christianity. It's actually a rival to Christianity," Carrie Gress, a fellow at the Institute for Human Ecology at Catholic University of America, told Fox News Digital in a recent interview.

Gress is the author of the forthcoming book "Something Wicked: Why Feminism Can’t Be Fused With Christianity," which she says examines how feminism has "quietly captured the minds and hearts of women by mimicking aspects of Christianity. Through its own ‘commandments,’ ‘virtues,’ ‘evangelization,’ and even ‘a sacrament,’ feminism has become an exceedingly powerful megachurch."

“In many respects, it can actually be seen as a megachurch," Gress told Fox News Digital. "It has taken on so many of the aspects of Christianity."

Continued below.

Scholar warns feminism has become a ‘megachurch’ replacing faith, family and Christian virtue

A Catholic author argued feminism functions as secular "megachurch" rivaling Christianity in a new book examining the movement's religious-like structure and doctrines.

www.foxnews.com

I personally have an issue with this article. The scholar's argument that feminism is a "megachurch" that forces women to choose between family and fulfillment overlooks a significant reality present in her own life.
It is undeniable that her ability to wear so many hats—as a wife, a mother of five, a professional author, an academic fellow and an editor —is a testament to the expanded opportunities secured by generations of women seeking equality. This is the Feminist movement.
By criticizing women who seek a career, autonomy and individualism as inherently anti-Christian, she is clearly not grasping the fruits of her now modern opportunities given to her by the foundational work laid by these like minded women of feminism.

I say this is shameful at best and hypocritical at worse.

Thanks for sharing.

DaisyDay · 2025-12-09T10:57:21-0600

Well, even you have to admit that that is efficient! None of those pesky Request for Proposals or Request for Bids, no need to waste time and personnel evaluating suppliers, etc.

Michie · 2025-12-09T10:44:10-0600

The pastor of a Catholic parish near Boston says an anti-immigration-enforcement display in its Nativity scene will stay up at least for the time being, and he is asking for a meeting with the archbishop.

The announcement Monday night — more than three days after the Archdiocese of Boston said the display should be removed — leaves the parish and Archbishop Richard Henning of Boston at an impasse.

“We are waiting for an opportunity of dialogue and clarity with [Arch]bishop Henning before reaching any final decisions,” Father Stephen Josoma said, according to a video of a press conference published by MassLive.com.

The display, put up Nov. 29 outside St. Susanna Church in Dedham, Massachusetts, includes a large sign saying “ICE Was Here” and another sign explaining that the absent figures of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are safe inside the church building. The display also includes a telephone number to report the presence of U.S. Immigration and Customs agents to an organization that monitors them.

A spokesman for Archbishop Henning on Friday described the display as inappropriate and said it should be removed.

“The people of God have the right to expect that, when they come to church, they will encounter genuine opportunities for prayer and Catholic worship — not divisive political messaging. The Church’s norms prohibit the use of sacred objects for any purpose other than the devotion of God’s people. This includes images of the Christ Child in the manger, which are to be used solely to foster faith and devotion,” said Terrence Donilon, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Boston, by email.

“Regarding the recent incident, St. Susanna Parish neither requested nor received permission from the Archdiocese to depart from this canonical norm or to place a politically divisive display outside the church. The display should be removed, and the manger restored to its proper sacred purpose,” Donilon said Friday.

Father Josoma’s stance

Continued below.

Boston-area pastor refuses to remove anti-ICE Nativity scene

The pastor of a Catholic parish near Boston says an anti-immigration-enforcement display in its Nativity scene will stay up at least for the time being.

www.catholicnewsagency.com

RamiC · 2025-12-09T10:41:55-0600

Shane R said:
We ate lunch in an Asian buffet on the city centre in Munich. The waitress was trying to be personable and asked me if I was Australian! Apparently handsome white blokes who wear ear flap hats and speak good English are Australian. I was amused.

If you are still in Germany, find Black Forest Gateaux, and eat it.

New Posts

New Posts

Alina Habba resigns as New Jersey US attorney after appeals court defeat​

Trump backtracks on releasing boat strike video, distances himself from controversy​

A Study in Moral Discourse​

The Question We Both Agree On​

Where Our Methods Diverge​

Zac Brown Band Under Fire ​

Carrie Gress argues the movement functions as a secular megachurch targeting women with false promises​

Father Josoma’s stance​

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Alina Habba resigns as New Jersey US attorney after appeals court defeat

Trump backtracks on releasing boat strike video, distances himself from controversy

A Study in Moral Discourse

The Question We Both Agree On

Where Our Methods Diverge

Zac Brown Band Under Fire

Carrie Gress argues the movement functions as a secular megachurch targeting women with false promises

Father Josoma’s stance