1Tonne said:

Sadly, I think in most Western churches, there is little desire to go out and share the Gospel with the lost. Most believers focus on making friends with unbelievers, then inviting them to church in the hope that they might hear the Gospel there.
This approach has weakened the Church. Many people now fill the pews not because they’ve come to the foot of the cross, but because they’ve come for friendship. A few may hear the Gospel and experience a true heart change, but most simply attend, enjoy the community, and then spend the week trying to invite another friend to church, and the cycle continues. The church grows in number but not in strength.

Click to expand...

As some have mentioned compared to the early church which is really the hallmark of Christianity in practice being put to the test has become compromised and comfortable.

It was inevitable that even in the western free nations that Christianity would evolve back into a situation where Christians will be tested for their faith. Not necessarily to death but in how this world now destinguishes more clearly a dividing line between Christianity and secular ideology.

The two cojoined and then split and now it is the anti Christ that is in control once again like in the times of Rome or the Islamist conquests of Jewish and Christian lands and people. The same mentality is growing even in western nations.

It is a natural evolution of once again rejecting God as a society and in the public square and the growth of secular ideologies that want to replace God with a human made version of god like the Golden Calf. But on an increasing global scale.

Kirks assassination and the rising antisemetism and other terror groups and growing hate against all things Christian are the symptoms. But Kirks death defined this in peoples minds.

It was a watershed moment as far as people now explicitely choosing between Christ and the antiChrist. Because the extension from his death is being expressed in an increase in hate for Christians and Jews. Whether that be outright acts of murder or terror attacks on ICE facilities or churches. Or in our leaders remaining quiet in condemining such because of the political ideology.

Now there is a tripling down which is getting desperate and dangerous.

1Tonne said:

That said, I do believe there’s a place for friendship evangelism, but it should never be our main focus. We should always share the Gospel with our friends before inviting them to church. Our primary calling is to proclaim the Gospel. When we speak boldly, and people hear and are transformed, then they will want to come to church. That’s how the Church is filled with true believers rather than unbelievers seeking friendship. And if we share the full Gospel, both the bad news and the Good, with our new friend, and they reject it, then they won’t want to come to church. In that way, we avoid filling the Church with weeds and instead keep it a gathering for those who truly desire Christ.

Click to expand...

I think just as the culture and society is becoming more anti God and Christ I think this is when Christians should be like the early church and be even more Christ like as a counter. In fact it is inevitable. It is in the times when Christianity is hated and persecuted that Christians are greatest. Thats when we see the true Christians come out. They put their faith on the line.

The problem is in the west most have heard the gospel 10 times over and they their hearts have become hardened or softened to alternative ideas and the message is not penetrating. But if one of these Christians was asked to take a side and there would be consequences, lost job, financial, harm to body or even death. They would be asked to put their faith on the line and this is when it counts.

This time I think is coming. Whether that be life becoming hard to be a Christian and even speak the gospel or losing careers and money for taking a side. Because the starkness of the difference in how the opposing beliefs play out in reality are clashing. They cannot co exist and Christians will sooner or later have to declare their faith at a cost.

But you are right becuase I think at the same time as bold Christians do stand up they shine Christ and its noticable and turns peoples heads to God no matter what. Because it is so powerful and radical. Its just that some will turn and others will become even more hateful.

But I think now is the time for Christians to go back to how the early church was. Do it now. Sell everything and help the poor. Do what Christ teachings actually say. Don't store up your riches on earth but in heaven. Or at least take some steps towards this more.

1Tonne said:

People are watching us, and so we should do good deeds. It becomes a good witness. But this still does not replace the fact that we need to speak the Gospel. The Gospel is a spoken message. How shall they here without someone to tell them?
Our actions substantiate what we know and believe. And we can either be a good or a bad witness.
If we do bad things, our word becomes compromised, and people will be less likely to believe what we say. The opposite of this is when we act in love; this will lend credibility to our word. For example, in a court of law, if you have 2 people with conflicting testimonies, one is a prostitute, and the other is a doctor. The doctor is the one most people would believe, as his word is not compromised by his deeds, like the prostitute's. He is a good witness.
So, your actions validate what you believe, and then, when you do say the Gospel, people will be more likely to believe what you say.
But when doing good deeds, we must not forget to share the Gospel. We need to share the Gospel by speaking it. Our good deeds are not the power of God unto salvation. They only give us an opportunity to share, and they give our words credibility. Then, when we do say the Gospel, it will give glory to God.

Click to expand...

I have been thinking about this and how word and actions or rather disposition are different. Clement of Rome mentions the greatest Overseers were the ones who spoke little but were Christ like. Christ was like this. He did not speak often but lived His teachings. So when He did speak people believed and knew He was telling the truth.

I think in a world where words have become many meanings and rationalisations. Even the Gospel and Christ being rationalised in all sorts of ways that almost create a complete new religion. I think the best way is to be Christ like as much as possible. Say little at the moment and allow the example and disposition to shine through.

I think this is powerful and speaks more than words. It cuts through all the white noise created by centuries of rationalisations and justifications. Then when words are spoke they hold much more power.

If a church sold all their possessions even causing suffering for themselves and went about helping others. This alone would turn peoples heads to God. To Gods word and the Gospel. Because its so radical and Christlike in a comfortable and material world. Even atheists would be impressed lol. But this is exactly what is needed in this present time.

1Tonne said:

Another example. If I were talking to someone downtown and a passerby heard me use God's name as a curse word, that would not be very good. Then, if I were to go to a park a few days after this and say the Gospel to that same passerby, my words that I say have been tainted because of my previous conduct. He would think to himself, "This fuller does not even truly believe himself because he uses his own God's name as a curse word." So, I am therefore not a good witness. My actions did not bring Glory to God. Instead, they were a disgrace. Our actions substantiate our words. Therefore, bringing Glory to God.

Click to expand...

Yes exactly as to what I was alluding to above. But at the same time I think it has come to a situation where the Christian does not have to do anything wrong and is already condemned as a hater causing trouble or a hypocrite. Just the mention that Jesus saves is enough to trigger some. Or the mention that God created them man and women in marriage is seen as hate speech.

I guess the hypocracy of the church contributed to this. But its more than that. It goes beyond this as commonsense tells us that bad apples don't make the whole bunch bad and that there is also Christlke good in Christians and sense in traditional marriage in research science. Its more a conflict of ideology and who is the god of us and our behaviour.

1Tonne said:

So, love our neighbour by caring for their needs. But also, love them enough to warn them of the condemnation that they are under. It would be unloving to know of God, everlasting life, Judgement, death and the way out, and then not to tell people of it. Love by deed and word.

Click to expand...

Yes and I think there are many ways Gods works. It may be that you work with the disadvantaged and the last thing they want to hear is the gospel. Rather some food in their belly and shelter and all that. But then they wonder why is this person so loving and kind. They open up and the opportunity comes as God makes it.

Sometimes is there and then. The need to clarify the gospel among other ways of being in the world as a matter of life and death and the right choices. But this can be done even in unrelated sciences by research showing Gods truth in marriage and family for example. That even the research supports Gods natural laws.

I think this was CHarlies approach. Not just the gospel but that even mainstream consensus and research supported biblical teachings. So Gods way also made sense in reality. Sometimes people come to God because they realise there there had to be a God because the world has no answers ect. There are many ways.

I run a music group in a homeless hub and play secular songs that hint at God and then some meaningful words and people then open up and mention God themselves. Or sometimes it just happens. A homeless person or street person who is a Christian just comes in and starts singing and praising God at the right time. Just enough to not make some of the more sensitive guests get triggered.

I have worked most my life in social welfare and with government and non profit secular. They are now pretty strict on pushing a certain secular ideology. Just mentioning God or Christianity is a trigger lol. You have to we smart sometimes when going into the lions den lol. Though I have had differences of opinion with the management lol. It depend where you are working or doing Gods work.

In that sense Charlie was a great Christian. Because I could imagine a Christ just going into a progresive campus and preaching. They would be driven out and hounded. But Charlie managed to go right into the lions den and engage and have opportunity to speak directly about the gospel.

GoldenKingGaze said:

In 65 AD 11 may have still been alive of the 12 that included Matthew. Or maybe less, church tradition tells us where the apostles died but not exactly when. Many can witness Christ's resurrection, and some are apostles by God's design.

Click to expand...

I think I will continue trusting what God says in His word about apostles.

Most churches I have gone to the sermons are around 15 minutes long, maybe 20 at most.

I wonder if OP has learned anything from this thread.

This is what the relationship between a Christian and God/Christ Jesus should look like, in reality. And if he is our God, then he is our Lord. And if he is our Lord, he is the Master (Owner) of our lives. He is the one guiding and directing us in the way that we should go, and not our own flesh. And if earnestly we seek (pursue, go after, follow) him, then we are those whose lives are surrendered to him to doing his will, who no longer walk in sin, but who walk in accord with and in obedience to his commandments.

Now we are not under the Old Covenant liturgical, ceremonial, sacrificial, purification, circumcision, dietary, and Sabbath laws. God did away with those when Jesus died on that cross to put our sins to death with him. But we are not now lawless. We still have to obey God’s commandments as taught us in the New Testament, under the New Covenant God has with all who believe in Jesus Christ in truth and righteousness. And God requires that we die to sin and we now obey him in living holy lives, pleasing to God.

And if our souls thirst for God, as one might thirst for water where there is none, God is who we hunger and thirst after, the primary source of life for us, the one we cannot live without. Like I keep a bottle of water right next to me to drink from throughout the day, we should keep the Lord close to our hearts, and we should drink from him and his word all throughout the day, as though necessary for our survival, for our spiritual health and strength. We should long for him and for his word that we might do what he says.

Now, what does God’s steadfast love look like? It is what sent Jesus Christ to the cross to take upon himself the sins of the world, and to put our sins to death with him so that, by God-persuaded and God-gifted faith in Jesus we will now die to sin and obey God in practice, by the grace of God, in the power of God. For God’s love and grace are not a free pass to get into heaven based on lip service to God only. God gives us commands we must follow, for they are for our good, that we may no longer walk in sin.

Sadly, many people today are teaching God’s love and grace as a free pass to heaven based on lip service only, and that is not love, and it is not grace. For God’s grace, which is bringing us salvation, is training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we wait for our Lord’s return. Jesus’ sacrifice on that cross was so we will now die to sin daily, by the Spirit, and obey God and his commands in daily practice, by the grace of God, in the power of God.

For Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

For by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing, we are crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as slaves to righteousness in walks of obedience to God’s commands. We are no longer to permit sin to reign in our mortal bodies to make us obey its desires. For if sin is what we obey, it results in death. But if obedience to God is what we obey, it results in sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

And we bless the Lord, not by lip service only, but by our obedience to him and to his commands, and by our submission to him and to his will and purpose for our lives. For our faith in Jesus Christ, if it is genuine biblical faith which comes from God, and which is persuaded of God, and which is not of our own doing, it will be shown by our deeds, by how we live our lives day in and day out, in practice. And if sin is what we practice, and not obedience to God, we will not inherit eternal life with God. Believe it!

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1

As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

Login to view embedded media
Caution: This link may contain ads

My Soul Thirsts for God
An Original Work / October 7, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

iluvatar5150 said:

Posting this here to keep an eye on it:

House of South Carolina Judge Criticized by Trump Administration Set Ablaze

Authorities are investigating a fire at the home of a South Carolina judge who had reportedly received death threats in what could be the latest incident of political violence across the country.

time.com

Click to expand...

From the link

“At this time, there is no evidence to indicate the fire was intentionally set,” South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) Chief Mark Keel told TIME in a statement on Monday

Click to expand...

Pepperdoodle said:

Only his followers/fans will believe him.
He knew what he was saying and chose to imply what he did. But it bit him back which is good.
But sadly these Left leanings ones learn little when they lies show them for who they are.
Johnny Carson was a famous late night talk show host in the US and he barely touched into politics and he said that it should be kept out of things.
A rock star Gene Simmons says celebrities should keep their "pie hole" shut about politics and just do their job.
So some get it, but sadly some of the Left leaning celebrities think it's ok to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting.

Click to expand...

Yes good old rocker Gene Simmons lol. Even he has comonsense. I want to rock and roll all night and party everyday lol. So be it but don't force it on everyone.

I remember the "Dead Heads' who followed the Greatful Dead like they were gods lol. Or Devo and 'De-evolution' lol. Thats ok and thats their little niche that can happen within a creative society. But don't force the dead head or Devo world on everyone. Its art and meant to be funny and music not politics or promoting ideology.

That has been the Trojan Horse for ideologues to sneek in their ideology into mainstream through mediums and not reality.

friend of said:

Why do YOU think it's shut down then? Tell me the reason

Click to expand...

Because the Republicans shut it down?

You think the people who lick Donald Trump's shoes care about you, your loved ones, or America at all?

-CryptoLutheran

PM me if you want to privately share more detail - I can sit with you in the dust.

Life can be real tough.

Please pray that my boyfriend and I become best friends as well as boyfriend and girlfriend and that God blesses our relationship, agreeing in Jesus Christs’s name, Amen, thank you God. And thank you for praying .

BPPLEE said:

This thread is about one law enforcement agency failing to help another one, what we’ve seen is providing cover for it, hand waving and justifying it

Click to expand...

Sure this thread is about one specific incident but the larger story around these deportations and more importantly, how ICE are conducting these operations has been brewing for several months now. You’ll notice early in this term there wasn’t quite as much pushback against ICE arrests as we’re seeing now after millions have witnessed for themselves what these agents are doing to people and how they’re going about it. This is a terror campaign where cruelty is the whole point and people aren’t taking it anymore.

Just thought I should say hello. I've been sick for many years and desperately need prayer right now.

UA

Calvary Chapel believes in the rapture.

Such a word is sorely needed, yet Jesus said 'the poor you will alway have with you' and accepted a costly gift.

However Paul speaks of equality among the congregation so no one would be in lack.

Our unloving culture prevents folks from expressing lack and sadly this does get carried into church life also.

Can we revive the elder function of knowing who is in need ???

During bible study, my husband asked me why we see slave owning as immoral and the Israelites freed from Egyptian slavery, but Isrealites were allowed to have their own slaves complete with special rules for these individuals concerning the Sabbath, circumcision etc.

I have no answer.

Can anyone assist?

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

You're saying we should prevent things we can't prove it happens.

Yea, that’s about right. Gop and MAGA wants to stop which doesn’t exist!

Click to expand...

Per the MAGA dictionary, voter fraud means "didn't vote for Trump."

-- A2SG, and that happens a lot more than they like.....

longhair75 said:

Good morning all! I haven't been around for a bit. I came here to look for a post I made quite some time ago, and now that I found it I just thought I would stop by. I hope all of you are doing well

Click to expand...

Hey, hope you're well too amigo!

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen

zippy2006 said:

Again, your tacit premise is that novel rule-changing is coming from the right, and that's what it has to do with what you wrote. Your idea that it is the right and not the left that is trying to change the status quo is incorrect. Sports have been segregated between males and females for a long time, and anyone who understands what sport is understands why this segregation should occur. That is the status quo. Now we have a new group (trans) that wants to deviate from that status quo and disregard the nature of competitive sport. They are precisely the ones "trying to change the rules." It is not a new rule that biological males are not allowed to play in female sporting leagues, and this remains true even if such a rule must be made explicit in light of new challenges.

Click to expand...

But the new rule changes implemented for this years athletics world championship changed the status quo for the future. People born male had access under certain conditions to compete as women before this year.

zippy2006 said:

Again, there is nothing special about law. No one is disputing the fact that existing laws must be navigated. That is part of the point of arguing over whether some form of discrimination should be illegal. If we make bad law which outlaws a just and good form of discrimination, we will have to navigate that bad law for years to come. The post of yours I replied to was not primarily about law, but rather about school policies:

Click to expand...

Yes, but from my experience laws are the major driving forces for making policies.

zippy2006 said:

You were saying, "It isn't unreasonable to demand that students and teachers be treated the same regardless of gender identity or sexuality." The point is that it is unreasonable given that people will construe that demand as requiring, for example, that biological males are able to compete in female sporting leagues.

Click to expand...

In which actual case has anti-discrimination laws influenced who eligible to compete in which gender category? Here it is left to the national association for the sport in question. Who in turn has to negotiate with the international association.

Where I live collegiate sports are not a stepping stone for sports development, schools are a not a major part of the sports system and collegiate sports clubs are amateur clubs and not part of the college and university organisation per se. In short, students and teachers have no formal connection to sports at any level.

zippy2006 said:

I haven't generally made points vis-a-vis your own positions, given that I don't know exactly what they are. I have made points against "the left." I don't know whether you agree or disagree with the points I've made, but part of my point is that your notion that it is not unreasonable to demand non-discrimination falls into the broader naivete I am trying to illustrate. You are assuming via petitio principii that it must be good that zero discrimination occurs along the lines of gender identity or sexuality, and that is a symptom of the broader problem I have been trying to illustrate.

Click to expand...

No, I was trying to argue the point that the education system isn't necessarily trying to speed up any process but might only be trying to position itself in accordance to anti-discrimination laws. I've been in meeting where such things are discussed and the question is always what laws do we have to take into account.

eclipsenow said:

Rhetoric matters in sensitive matters like this.

Click to expand...

Yeah. I wish you would look in the mirror.

Bro.T said:

I agree with all those verses but those verses doesn't over rule keeping the Commandments, Statues and Judgement of God. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

So if you say that you know God, but you don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for you.

(1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly dividing the truth starts from Genesis to Revelation.

Click to expand...

Do you not read my posts? Have I spoken against Gods law ever?

Why does Christ’s death on the cross uphold the law? Here’s why:

Man broke God’s law and, as a result, cut himself off from God and came under the curse of the law—eternal death.

God could not break His own law by simply brushing this under the rug. The consequences of sin had to fall upon mankind. Because God’s law is immutable, forgiveness was impossible apart from justice. But God had a plan, and it involved the incarnation of Christ, who bore the results of sin in our place. Thus, God can and does forgive without violating His own law. In this way, the law is upheld.

Because Jesus bore the curse of the law, we are no longer under the law but under Christ, our schoolmaster. The law remains and always will, but we are not under its condemnation.

In order to be saved by the law, one would have to keep it perfectly from cradle to grave. Those who try will fail and perish, but those who trust in the Lord will be saved.

---

References​

• The Law and Sin: Romans 3:23 — “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
• The Curse of the Law: Galatians 3:10, 13 — “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us…”
• The Immutability of God’s Law: Matthew 5:18 — “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
• God’s Justice and Mercy: Romans 3:25–26 — God put Christ forward “to demonstrate His righteousness… so that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
• The Law as a Schoolmaster: Galatians 3:24–25 — “The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
• Salvation by Faith, Not Works: Ephesians 2:8–9 — “For by grace you have been saved through faith… not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
• Perfect Obedience Required by the Law: James 2:10 — “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”

essentialsaltes said:

"political actors who are inclined to be aggressive in their interpretations of law are not going to get any pushback."

Click to expand...

Feature, not a bug.

-- A2SG, aiding and abetting, the new SOP.....