Daniel 12

12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise.
(this is about the war in heaven in Rev 12 Michael vs the devil. The war happened when Jesus said ◄ John 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out, and Luke 10 18 And He said unto them, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.)

There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then.
(this is about 70 AD. Jesus said it would be great tribulation greater than ever has been or would be - in context of the pre messianic, and Mosaic age, and 70 AD was the end of OT Israel, and the Mosaic age never to return ever again).


But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
(prophecy of massive resurrection of the dead of every Israelite, "Daniels people"= Israelites, in the OT . The book is Gods book with his people in it referenced in Exodus 32:32–33, then in Revelation there is the lambs book which might just be NT times book with Christians names in it.)


4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
(the end means the end of the Mosaic age 70 AD not the end of time. Seal it because it won't happen until 70 AD. Could increase in knowledge be in reference to the Qumran sect which went back to books like 1 Enoch, Test of the 12, Jubilees? )

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”
(3.5 years. 66 AD start of Judean Roman wars-70 AD temple destroyed or 70-73 AD ending with suicide at Masada. Daily sacrifices stopped both 66, and 70 AD in Josephus).

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”
9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

Christians were purified 30-70 AD when they died for their faith- John Baptist, Stephen, Antipas are 3 named in the bible then there were more under Nero in the 60s AD
Another approx 3.5 year timeframe so 66-70 AD or 70-73 AD.
13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

John 5

25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28 Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
(same language as the prophecy of dead raising in Dan 12).

⭐ John 6:39–40

“I will raise him up on the last day.” (last day of the Mosaic covenant 70 AD).

⭐ John 6:44

“No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him… and I will raise him up at the last day.”

⭐ John 11:25–26

“I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in Me… will live even if he dies.”

⭐ Matthew 22:31–32 (also Mark 12:26–27; Luke 20:37–38)

“He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

⭐ Luke 14:14

“You will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

⭐ Luke 20:35–36

“Those considered worthy to attain… and the resurrection from the dead… can no longer die.”


1 Thessalonians 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(Gospel of Nic explains Jesus took these people to paradise when he was dead for 3 days)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(we who are alive means the apostle writing this text, and other first century Christians 2000 years ago it does not mean in the future)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(this trumpet is in Revelation 10:7,and Rev 1-12 which happened 70 AD. It calls it the mystery of God. Gospel of Nic has more info on the people that raised from the dead the day Jesus died but there was going to be more around 70 AD)

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(the living Christians in Judea at this event would of been raptured)

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Lost Books of the Bible: Letters of Herod and Pilate | Sacred Texts Archive

Bible: [These letters occur in a Syriac MS., of the sixth or seventh century, in the British Museum. Dr. Tischendorf states in his Apocalypses Apocryph&...

sacred-texts.com

Now when he was crucified, there was darkness over all the world, and the sun was obscured for half a day, and the stars appeared, but no lustre was seen in them; and the moon lost its brightness, as though tinged with blood; and the world of the departed was swallowed up; so that the very sanctuary of the temple, as they call it, did not appear to the Jews themselves at their fall, but they perceived a chasm in the earth, and the rolling of successive thunders. And amid this terror the dead appeared rising again, as the Jews themselves bore witness, and said that it was Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the twelve patriarchs, and Moses, and Job, who had died before, as they say, some three thousand five hundred years. And there were very many whom I myself saw appearing in the body, and they made lamentation
over the Jews, because of the transgression which was committed by them, and because of the destruction of the Jews and of their law.

1 Corinthians 15

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality

trumpet again Rev 10:7 7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.” both have the word mystery. We means the first Christians 2000 years ago not us today or future. Same kind of prophecy as the one in Thessalonians above.
Only Rev 1-12 happened 70 AD Rev 13-22 is future. There is a massive raising from the dead in Rev 20-22 which is still future.
The end of the animal apocalypse in 1 Enoch (written pre flood not pseudepigrapha) explains there was a huge spiritual judgement on OT Israelites first century AD too

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/jude-and-1-enoch.8338493/post-78330611

This is a short video of a shark feeding frenzy at Byron Bay in New South Wales as reported on the (Australian) ABC online news.


The bay is on the northern side of Cape Byron which is the eastern most point of mainland Australia.

There's a couple of swimmers taking a risk but they may not have been able to see the sharks.


PS - The article mentions a couple of Swiss nationals who were attacked at Crowdy Bay National Park last month. One of them died unfortunately but it seems they may have been swimming in the vicinity of bait balls.

ChubbyCherub said:

Because it's not only the Bible that uses historic vernacular.

Take for instance the Romans and how they phrased quotations on engravings underneath their monuments or busts, and then think about if we had teachers rephrase these quotations so that we understood them in modern context. Why wouldn't we apply this to other writings?

Now, if we argue that we can't expect secular teachers to teach us the changes within our Bible, fine. But, surely, this is where the church comes in?

For example, our church uses the NIV. Seemingly, even some of the words and phrases which I consider to be 'everyday' and basic, are beyond the scope of what some have been taught or come across often, so our pastor provides alternate words or summarizes phrases in a more 'modern' way for generalized understanding.

The responsibility for learning has to lie somewhere. We can't all just delegate responsibility to someone else or just cease the pursuit of knowledge. There are many paths to learning if someone is willing to pursue them.

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I don't wish for this to sound flippant so apologies if it has come across that way.

My point here, I guess, is I learned Shakespeare in school, I learned about Plato, I learned geometry and about Magellan and governments of countries I've never even heard of. None of my knowledge regarding how people spoke, learned or wrote at the time their ideas were formulated was inherent, some of my knowledge changed from how it was presented to me initially etc and if I had curiosity about them at a later date, due to a passing conversation or something I read, I sought to update what I thought I knew or reconfirm what I'd already learned.

I have taken the point of this post to be that there is no reason for us to speak in the colloquial ways of the KJV and it is not understood why anyone would choose to do so since no one really understands what is being said, in the main. However, I don't see that as true across the board and there are reasons why the KJV is referred to by many despite the language being outdated.

I also think that if a church is using the KJV, then it's okay to ask them about what certain things mean if we don't understand since we don't always know how to apply KJV text to modern language. They would have, in my opinion, a responsibility to clarify but we would have the responsibility to ask so we can learn.

I can't imagine being bothered by someone learning, teaching and applying physics just because I didn't understand it or the origins of it. If I felt that strongly about my lack of understanding, it would seem to me that it's my responsibility to learn so that I do understand or learn enough so that I can ask questions from the appropriate source.

Apologies if I have misunderstood the post!

peaceful-forest said:

I was wondering if any other Christians are having trouble with making friends. Friendships you're actually happy with and are good for you. It can be with other Christians or non-believers.

I feel like I have trouble. I don't really know where to find other Christians that are like me.

At work I'm around people I do not trust. They lie, they gossip, they're out to get others, etc. So I have to watch what I say and do, and protect myself.

I also haven't been to church in 6 years. I know that's bad. But I'm not impressed with the churches in my area.

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I don't have advice other than to have friendly comments when you talk to people. Don't crticize or condemn. Don't complain about your upbringing. I wasn't allowed friends growing up and we moved every year.

How to Win Friends and Influence People is a 1936 self-help book written by Dale Carnegie. Over 30 million copies have been sold worldwide.

Ivan Hlavanda said:

What I am definitely sure of, is that they are 2 literal persons, and not a metaphor for the Church and Israel

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I agree.

Is the teaching outdated, or is the New Testament still relavent?

dichotomy

Aggie said:

Anybody remember me? I was a regular on this forum from 2004 until 2018, after which I mostly moved on to other things. I don't plan on becoming a regular here again, but I'm back for the time being to ask about a recent piece of evolutionary anthropology news.

https://x.com/OriginsUnveiled/status/1964040999468224774

According to this analysis, when the human and chimpanzee genomes are compared while including portions that hadn't previously been sequenced, their similarity drops from the commonly given 98% value to 84.7%. On the surface this seems valid, and the conclusion has been accepted by Jerry Coyne, an evolutionary biologist who is qualified to evaluate it. Jerry Coyne's post from yesterday is what brought this analysis to my attention.

But there is something odd about this conclusion: it's virtually identical to an argument made in 2012 by Jerry Bergman and Jeffrey Tomkins in the Journal of Creation. Bergman and Tomkins' 2012 argument was that when human and chimpanzee genomes are compared using data typically omitted from these comparisons, the percentage similarity drops to somewhere in the 81-87 percent range. Either the recent analysis by "Origins Unveiled" is an example of a major creationist claim being vindicated by mainstream evolutionary anthropology, or it's a very clever false flag operation by a creationist or Intelligent Design proponent, which was convincing enough for even Jerry Coyne to be fooled.

Looking more closely, I've noticed a few other possible red flags. First, the argument made by "Origins Unveiled" (and accepted by Jerry Coyne) is based on a paper published in Nature on April 9th. The exact same argument made by "Origins Unveiled"—that this paper shows the creationist figure of 81-87% to be correct—was previously made six months ago by Casey Luskin of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. And second, "Origins Unveiled" is a relatively new Twitter account (registered in 2024) without any identifying information, aside from that they were a were considering a Ph.D in evolutionary anthropology until they quit due to "the rampant political correctness I witnessed among professors and students in potential university programs". Some of the account's other posts include accurate summaries of evolutionary anthropology concepts, but a fair number of creationists have legitimate PhDs and have published mainstream biology or geoscience research, so the ability to accurately explain these concepts doesn't prove the account's provenance either way.

I would like some help evaluating whether the "Origins Unveiled" Twitter account is for real, and whether it's a coincidence that they've reached the same conclusion as Luskin (and also previously Bergman and Tomkins), or whether this Twitter account is being operated someone associated with the Discovery Institute who's posing as an evolutionary anthropologist. I suppose it's also possible that this account belongs to a creationist or ID proponent but that the substance of their argument is still correct. I'm aware of one other case where a creationist objection (not to the theory evolution itself, but to the way it's been presented in textbooks) turned out to be valid.

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The problem with cherry picking methods of comparison to drop the similarity of chimps and humans to 85% is that the same method make gorrillas and other gorillas less related still.

This means the comparison clearly isn't useful as a demonstration of separate lineage.

Valletta said:

The Somali Welfare Fraud Scandal Is Even Worse Than You Think

The Somali-tied welfare fraud scheme in Minnesota is likely far worse than the American people think, involving “complicit” state government officials and totaling far more stolen money than original early estimates stated, according to Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.Billions of...

www.dailywire.com

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Do yourself a big favour. Try to find reputable sources to back up any claims you want to make. And tell anyone who thinks to use that dismal excuse for a human being such as Miller to support anything whatsoever is only illustrating their own gullibility.

Ivan Hlavanda said:

But AI is more than just summary. AI is to use fake voices, fake images, videos and what not. Christians use AI for prayers, teachings, sermons. Where is the authenticity? Where is the heart that God desires? We worship the Lord with new hearts of flesh, and not like machines. Prayers, sermons it's not about using beautiful words, but words from a heart that fears and love the Lord.

Yes, technology is just a tool. A good servant but a terrible god, it can become easily our idol. So in sense technology is not bad, but it is the way we use it. AI however, is much much worse.

We can have a discussion, but I want a discussion with a human being, not AI

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AI has many outlets, some are for pure entertainment but others can be used for critical discourse/study. the video/image content doesn't have a goal of accuracy in retelling accounts but rather is entertainment driven.

we typically know the difference quite easily. we don't watch Charlton Heston to understand who Moses was even if he is famous for dipicting him. so a measure of common sense is still needed and like any mediums we can't lump it all together and say because some things are bad then it's all bad. for example the Internet clearly has inappropriate and moral failures throughout, but that doesn't mean we should never use it. AI is not some self thinking machine with all these goals to corrupt reality. people are still controlling the content, AI is just the tool they use.

the church historically has used a lot of prewritren content for expression of worship outside of the Bible. liturgy, songs, prayer, ceremonial aspects, preaching, devotionals, meditation, etc.... the fact that we are going off a script doesn't make it insincere, certainly we can challenge these things but when I sing a favorite hymn I still need to find a place in my heart where I can personally use the hymn to give glory to God rather than just mechanically string the words together. Sometime I identify with the words so much that I find it some of the best ways to expression my deep feelings. The words and music together may be beautiful in their arrangement but those things themselves do offer worship to God, it is still through the heart not the physical (or audible) thing. no matter how melodic if there is no love, it's just a resounding gong.

certainly AI can be used irresponsibility, (so can tongues as Paul made that very clear) so we still need to critically approach these tools and ensure they are being used to edify and build the church or as a tool to love others while giving glory to God over a competing focus which indeed can be forms of idolatry, non different than any "thing". AI is has more rapid results so ifnit has a negative/positive impact that too can manifest quicker but that's not AI's problem, that's still a user problem and AI is still just a tool (regardless of how big the tool is, it's still a tool)

its also very much the future. you may reject it today but it's rapid development will force you to approach it down the road. I guarantee there will be AI translations of the Bible and AI content through the church in all aspects mentioned above. we can't just deomonize it but rather learn how it can be used still as a responsible tool. If Hitler liked apples does this mean that apples are evil and we should stay away from them? certainly not, and such a conclusion would be absurd, but is AI no different? AI doesn't corrupt everything it touches and it's still on us to critically and faithfully use it to give glory to God over "thing"

RamiC said:

They certainly are not doing it quietly, as if it would be rude to complain.

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Quite. And yet all the while claiming that they have been ‘silenced’ while talking through a sound system on stage in the middle of London.

I believe the church is taught by GOD through Jesus Christ. Jesus said , John 6:45 , John 14:26 , John said , 1 John 2:27
we have the anointing that teaches us. This is saying we are taught by divine revelation just like the prophets and Apostles were. I do not think that any man or woman can reach anyone spiritual things, only GOD can do this. These shepherds in the churches today think they can do what only GOD can do. The early church was not a one man show. 1 Corinthians 14:29 since we are taught by divine revelation then we must be prophets and prophetesses because no man can teach us. This idea is in the scriptures if you look for it. I believe that that after the deaths of all the Apostles massive deception began and many false churches came and took the name of Christian and perverted it. There is a prophecy in Ezekiel 34 about these false shepherds and what GOD said HE would do about it. This is a hard thing to see but this too is in the scriptures if you search for it.

Praise God for their release and praying that those still held hostage will be freed.

Thank you to everyone who has prayed.

d taylor said:

Only a denomination and its members who believe it takes more than belief in Jesus to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Wold read what i have written and then believe, i believe moon landing are a salvation issue.

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So you are on record that what anyone believes about the shape of the earth has absolutely no bearing on their salvation, correct?

We read in Romans 11 about the branches which were broken off from the “Olive Tree,” which was not a literal tree, but which symbolizes biblical Israel, i.e. Jesus Christ. Once Jesus Christ gave his life up for us on that cross to put our sins to death with him, and then he was resurrected from the dead, God’s covenant people (Israel, the branches) now included all Gentiles who believed in Jesus Christ and who followed him in obedience. And all Jews who refused Jesus as their Messiah were cut out of Israel (the tree).

I see this as paralleling with this passage of Scripture in John 15, only here Jesus is symbolized by a vine of which we are the branches. And the message is fairly of the same nature. Every branch in Jesus Christ, the vine, that does not bear fruit (spiritual results according to God’s word), he takes away (removes from the vine). And if one of the branches does not abide in the vine, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. Similar results as above.

For we read in 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Hebrews 3:1-19; and Hebrews 4:1-13 that all those who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years who did not obey God, but who chose the path of sin and rebellion, instead, were put to death by God. And not only did they not get to go into the Promised Land, but they did not get to enter into God’s eternal rest because of their disobedience, which God referred to as unbelief. And he referred to obedience as belief. And these things were written down for us so we don’t follow their example.

All of this has the same message. If we profess to be part of spiritual Israel, the body of Christ, by faith in Jesus Christ, but we do not bear spiritual fruit in keeping with repentance, and we do not abide in Christ, i.e. we do not obey him and his commandments, and so we do not conform to his will and purpose for our lives, and so we do not follow his leading, and so we do not continue in and remain in him, but we go our own way, instead, then he will throw us away unless we repent and we obey him in doing what he says.

Jesus taught it, and his New Testament apostles taught it, and we can read about this all throughout the New Testament writings. We cannot just claim that we are in Christ but then keep living in sin, and not in obedience to our Lord in walks of surrender to the will of God for our lives, and then expect God to forgive us of all sins and to let us into his heaven when we die. But sadly that is what many people are teaching and believing. But please know that is not the gospel taught by Jesus and by his New Testament apostles.

For Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

For by God-gifted faith in Jesus Christ, which is not of our own doing, we are crucified with Christ in death to sin and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but as slaves to righteousness in walks of obedience to God’s commands. We are no longer to permit sin to reign in our mortal bodies to make us obey its desires. For if sin is what we obey, it results in death. But if obedience to God is what we obey, it results in sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God (see Romans 6:1-23).

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

So, believe and live the truth of God’s Word, and reject all of Satan’s lies.

Seek the Lord

Based off Isaiah 55
An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Musical Instrumentation by Mark Bradley

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

Login to view embedded media
Branches Not Bearing Fruit
An Original Work / December 9, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Scripture tells us that everlasting life is a gift from GOD to the church to be received in the last day. Immortality was withheld from humanity when Adam sinned. This MORTAL must put on immortality. Everlasting life is a promise dependent upon our submission to GOD in love and faith. No deliberate habitual sinner will have everlasting life.

Do you know what a jetski is?

Truth or Dare, again?

GAIN

Reluctant Theologian said:

What a unique combination - certainly for the Limburg area

What did you take from those studies into Baptist circles? It would bring more flavour in your understanding of the Bible I presume. Welcome .. !

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For me it is the connection between the Old and New testament, and the realization that Jesus was against human created traditions/laws/stringencies of the Pharisees.

W

keras said:

As Matthew 24:30-31 tells us; we will be gathered from everywhere, to where He will be. Firstly in the earths atmosphere, then to Jerusalem. Most of the Church will be brought back from the place of safety, where they will have been for the last 1260 days. Revelation 12:14

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Will the saints be glorified, rule and reign with Christ as kings and priests ? What kind of body will the saints have in the resurrection ? After being glorified will the saints still be able to sin ? Will the total number of these saints be millions, thousands or billions or just a few. I have wondered about these things.

contratodo said:

So you must believe that Revelation 11 is very figurative. I don't say it has anything to do with second chances, just that it is real, rather literal not figurative, such that the devil has little option but to try and hide and mask the fact when those two prophets arrive.

The lake of fire is real, as you allude to, indeed some will go straight to it when they 'wake up' from death. But it is not some outerspace place or some other dimension. The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9:17. The two prophets do the initial kindling of the lake of fire, literally, they will show and demonstrate that the Messiah also will literally breath divine fire.
And in that manner must anyone who hurts them be killed Revelation 11:5, the beast and false prophet indeed hurt them and therefore must be killed by the fire they start, and we know that the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire Revelation 19:20, these passages must both be true, and therefore also we clearly see that indeed it is the prophets that first kindle the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the result of this current world destroyed by divine fire. Started by the two prophets then the Messiah and then the Father sends down the final fire that destroys the sky land and sea Revelation 20:9- 21:1 2 Peter 3:8-12

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Everyone will have a first and only chance. If you believe that this is the only day of salvation but you have friends and loved ones who are not converted then you doom them. This is taking judgement too far, something you have no right to do. There will be a millennial reign of Christ in which people alive at that time will be given their own chance for salvation. Then at the second resurrection there will yet another group given their first and only chance of salvation. The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until the whole was leavened. These are the three different times salvation will be offered to three different groups of people. I don’t think anyone here would agree with this but that’s OK.

Hans Blaster said:

Are you not middle-aged Australian?

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Yes and thats part of the problem. You assume certain demographiscs with certain beliefs and positions. Classic IP.

Hans Blaster said:

I had to build the most extreme caricature of an ignorant MAGA Trump superfan to come close to your dogmatic and uninformed presentation on the current US president. I was certainly not stereotyping American Trump supporters.

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What exactly about what I said was dogmatic.

Hans Blaster said:

Guests on "Lindell . tv" do not meet the normative definition of experts.

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What exactly was said that was not in line with the expert opinion. See this is where my lack of knowing what sources are stereotyped themselves. I just go by the content of what was said. If that happens to be a source you don't like thats not my problem.

The content is in line with the experts and that why I linked it. Purely on what was said and not where it came from. I don't care where it came from because the whole idea of certain sources being good or bad is itself a subject and often biased opinion.

Hans Blaster said:

The other posters? I could believe that you take the worst of their ideas and layer on your own ignorance of American politics, culture, and history.

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No not the other posters but the experts. That is where I am getting my information. Its not the worse or any subjective qualification. Its the facts.

Hans Blaster said:

Which is not America. (My HS classmates also got stuck fighting that war.)

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The point is you don't have to be an American to know American politics. You can know American politics from Americans who know American politics and then you use your senses to take that info in. I do understand english and what words mean lol.

When they say the evidence shows that massive fraud has been committed and show the evidence I can be informed. Then refer to that as counter evidence to someone who claimed that Trump was a fraudster. That they have no moral ground to stand on.

Hans Blaster said:

Than me wasn't the issue. It was your knowledge relative to the other conservative posters. I'd still put up their understanding of American reality over you any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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Most of this is not about American or Australia or any nations politics. Its plain right and wrong. The moral truth, commonsense, reality, whatever you want to call it.

Hans Blaster said:

Real or not, it is irrelevant to the thread and THAT was my point.

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And my point was that this was a sub thread over moral hypocracy. About the same people that are morally outraged have double standards and thus bias.

From what I was seeing with people making all these extreme claims about Hegseth and TRump being murderers and commiting war crimes. That same old extreme narratives ike Kirk and Trump are Nazis ect. It was my point that these same people have been quiet happy to allow 10 times worse bad behaviour and have no moral leg to stand on.

This was also based on the fact that the language was implying guilt in doing something morally wrong without the intel. This showing a willingness to jump to the negative due to political bias and partisanship.

This was reality. I am am merely pointing this out. I have not said anything about the right or wrongness of the situation. Just pointing out howw the usual Trump haters are quick to jump the gun (pardon the pun) lol.

Hans Blaster said:

You were whingeing about anti-Christian bias related to criticism of Trump's policy/action which is rather silly as Trump is at best a nominal Christian. (And I understand the moral depravity of your position on narco boat killings.)

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I was not making a case for Trump being a Christian or that this is about Christ v non or Dems v Rep or Left v Right or anti immigration or anything.

I was simply using those examples of the hypocracy of how the Dems under Biden and Obama did all that they accuse Trump of and have no moral leg to stand on. That it was their now proven extreme bias that causes people not to trust a word they say.

So when people start jumping the gun again and making all these assumptions of guilt and extreme claims of war crimes its history repeating itself. So its right to point it out.

Hans Blaster said:

Are the Aussie commentators really that bad? (or just the ones on the "Fox News" of Australia.) (I am well aware that Ruprect Murdock is Australia's worst crime against America.)

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You can't help yourself can you. Doubling down now on IP. Us Aussies must be dumb, they could not possibly know anything. That bad old Fox News.

Did you notice at I mentioned that "even the Australian experts agreed". I said they were agreeing with the American experts

Hans Blaster said:

But how can you *know* what any poster's position on drone strikes by Obama or whatever was?

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It does not matter because everyone will pick a side and both sides are as bad as the other lol. But usually when people are so fixated on the opposition [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] political.

But even if its moral there are mmore than one position. So when someone starts claiming "shoulds" then we can say that they have jumped the gun because they don't have the facts. Thus exposing their bias in assuming a wrong for that particular situations when similar ones or other views are just as relevant.

Hans Blaster said:

You certainly don't know mine.

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If someone states that what happened is X and this "should not" have happened as its morally wrong. Then they are declaring their position. We can read a lot from the actual words that come out of peoples mouths lol. Its the most direct way of knowing what they think and believe.

Thats unless you think what people about a situation or themselves cannot be trusted.

Hans Blaster said:

Now please, let's go back to discussing the news item on the current sequence of drone strikes on drug boats off the coast of Venezuela

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Actually I am going to bow out. I don't see any point and I have said all I can say on the issue. It will be a continual back and forth of peoples subjective moral beliefs on the situation without the clear facts. Which are yet to come out.

Gene2memE said:

Misleading title is misleading.

It's not just Democrats that are having "existential meltdowns" about the vaccine schedule changes. It's pretty much the entirety of the US medical profession.

Statement from Leading Medical, Health and Patient Advocacy Groups on CDC Vaccine Meeting | ACP Online

Dec. 5, 20205— “We are deeply alarmed by the actions taken this week by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). The apparent goal of this meeting was to sow doubt in vaccines rather than advance sound vaccine policy, and we will all...

www.acponline.org

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You repeated yourself.

Gene2memE said:

This is false. There are no EU/EEA countries that wait until five months to deliver Hepatitus B vaccines

Vaccine Scheduler | ECDC

Giving insight in the vaccine schedules in all countries of the EU, provided by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC).

vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu

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Hm, your right, I think I was looking at Czechia wrong. But thanks for posting because looking even closer, i see Finland doesn't recommend or require it outside of at-risk infants, at all. Iceland doesn't either, and Hungary doesn't until age 12