Say it aint so said:

What comes out of the white house is the concern. Listen, we banter back and forth about the expected protection provided by white house lawyers or whether they have anything to be concerned about.

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I don't think you understood what I was saying.

Here is the thing about adjunct corps in the military (legal, intelligence, medical, meteorological, et cetera). If the commander has a mission, it is never the job of the adjunct corps to say, "You can't do it." It's their job to tell him how he can do it.

Military lawyers don't say, "That's illegal." They tell the commander how to do it it legally.

The same is true for White House lawyers. They don't say "no," they say "how."

That might even involve first "preparing the battlefield" by taking prior steps to adjust the situation to make what the president wants to do legal, or redefining terms or broadening pre-established conditions. Presidents do that all the time.

These may be things lawyers may dispute in court, but the fact that they must be disputed in court means they are not "manifestly illegal."

Say it aint so said:

Yet it's clear there are some wearing the uniform who are concerned and just don't want to be put in that position. It's sad the commander in chief rather than reassuring he would never put them in the position of doing anything illegal, instead screams for treason and the the death penalty. It's sad.

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Welcome!

Daniel Martinovich said:

Consider the verse below when thinking about the modern nation of Israel.

Isaiah 54:9 To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So now I have sworn not to be angry with you, never to rebuke you again.

The Apostle Paul declares the obvious in Galatians 4:26-27. That Isaiah 54 is a prophecy about the New Jerusalem.

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Hi Daniel,

Have you ever considered that `Jerusalem` above is made up of two parts - Mount Zion and the city, the New Jerusalem.

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,...` (Heb. 12: 22)

Mount Zion is where the Lord Jesus rules from His own throne. His Father has set Him there.

`I have set my King on my holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6) `...a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne..` (Rev. 4: 2)

The city part is for the Old Testament Saints.

`But they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

So...Mount Zion is the seat of the Lord`s rule and in the highest, with His Body of believers.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)


Then the city part comes down out of the highest heaven to the universe realm and is the rule over the earth.

`Then I, John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,...` (Rev. 21: 2)

First.

Brother Del said:

Ships don't disappear over the curvature of the earth, they advance beyond your visual perspective. Aim a camera with a telescopic lens at the ship you watched disappear beyond the horizon, magnify the zoom and it will return to view.

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Hey, you might be right. I checked that out for you just in case and found a video where someone showed how much of a ship was visible without zooming in. Then he zoomed in a lot and...you couldn't see any more. In fact, you could see exactly the same. See the end of this short vid.

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So, I guess you were wrong. But hey, maybe you'll have better luck explaining the 'upside down' moon.

Say it aint so said:

That's irrelevant. The fact they are seeking counsel is despite both.

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Don't read too much into that.

If they're "seeking counsel," it's because they've been sleeping through their LOAC training.

And you don't know what counsel is telling them.

Say it aint so said:

That's irrelevant. The fact they are seeking counsel is despite both.

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It ain't irrelevant.

I hope that person, if found guilty in a court of law, is given the maximum allowable punishment.

Vambram said:

Obviously, that was a question in reference to past remarks by Mamdani.

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Right, it was understood by all and sundry that Mamdani had called Trump a fascist.

Guojing said:

There are plenty of scripture before the cross that He commanded obedience to the Law of Moses.

Would you agree with that?

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Yes, of course He did that while the old covenant law of Moses was still in effect, but you are missing the point. Are you even trying to see it? The old covenant was no longer in effect after His death! It says so explicitly in Hebrews 8:6-13 and Hebrews 10:9-10. Why don't you accept those scriptures? Scripture says that Jesus came to fulfill the law so that none of us, including any Jews, would need to since doing that requires perfect obedience. If someone disobeys even one commandment of the law then they are guilty of breaking all of them (James 2:10). We're under the new covenant now and the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ. If you deny that He established the new covenant and made the old covenant obsolete with His shed blood, then you are denying a Christian fundamental belief, in my opinion. What Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 applied to the things He commanded them that were still in effect at that time going forward to the end of the age.

Douggg said:

Paul was saying that of the Jews - a person who is truly a Jew is one inwardly - by believing in Jesus.

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That is not what he said. You are twisting his words. He very specifically said that he is NOT a Jew who is one outwardly, but rather is a Jew who is one inwardly. That describes a spiritual Jew because it has nothing to do with being a Jew outwardly. Your claim that he was talking about Jews there takes him completely out of context. All Christians are spiritual Jews because we have all been circumcised by the spiritual circumcision of Christ. Your eyes are blinded to truths like this and it's sad to see.

Douggg said:

Paul was not saying that a Gentile by virtue of believing in Jesus is a Jew.

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Yes, he was. He specifically indicated that the type of Jew he was talking about in Romans 2:29 is NOT one based on anything outward like physical circumcision, but rather is one based on something inward - the circumcision of the heart.

Douggg said:

The only thing that matters is if a person is a Christian or not. Believers in Jesus are Christians. Just go with that.

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Bible doctrine matters and you believe a lot of false doctrine. We discuss Bible doctrine here on this forum. There are other forums we can go to where we can just agree with all the basics of Christianity, but this is not that forum. Ask God for wisdom so that you can start taking in spiritual solid food instead of only sipping on spiritual milk.

Guojing said:

Already gave you Matthew 28:20.

All means all

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Yes, it does, and He did not command them that they would need to keep the old covenant law of Moses after His death and resurrection. What don't you understand about that? What He commanded them was things like loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. He also commanded them to love their enemies, bless those who curse them and other things like He did here...

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. 29 To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. 31 And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

What He commanded was not the law of Moses of the old covenant, but the law of Christ of the new covenant. You are very naive about what scripture teaches.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Servus said:

Like the verbatim list of grievances against Trump that keep being given out.

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They are not arbitrary

Brother Del said:

In regards to airplane windows, they are all convex, much like the lens on a go pro camera. In other words, you are looking out a curved window, not at a curved earth.

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I have confirmed while on the ground that straight horizontal lines remain straight while looking out a plane window. Your claim is false.

Brother Del said:

Ships don't disappear over the curvature of the earth, they advance beyond your visual perspective. Have you ever been on a long narrow highway lined with telephone poles on both sides? Look ahead or behind, the poles will grow closer together and closer to the ground from your perspective. Drive down the road a mile and those same poles will be at the same height and distance from one another as you originally perceived them. Aim a camera with a telescopic lens at the ship you watched disappear beyond the horizon, magnify the zoom and it will return to view.

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Demonstrably false. Small boats may become too small for our eyes to discern at a distance and will indeed come back into view with a telescopic lens, but they will still be in front of the horizon. Large ships such as passenger liners or container ships however can still be seen with the naked eye when they begin to disappear bottom up at the horizon. Zooming in with a telescopic lens does not cause the bottom of the ship to reappear because it is hidden by the curvature of the earth.

Brother Del said:

You plainly stated "the fact that the earth is a sphere is not up for debate". Then why may I ask are you debating it here? If you are convinced that your view of the cosmos is the correct one, and all other viewpoints are " absurd", then what is the point of further discussion?

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Helping people like yourself escape from delusion.

Brother Del said:

You mentioned that it was God who created a spherical earth. It was also God who created the first humans, Adam and Eve. He created them in His own image and placed them in the garden called Paradise. They were perfect and innocent and had the presence of God Himself with them regularly. And yet, these magnificent creatures who were blessed beyond measure, and created in the very image of Almighty God, were somehow deceived by nothing more than a few simple statements and suggestions. We live in a fallen world, with fallen natures, not a paradise but a cesspool run by none other than Satan himself. Our enemies, the world and the devil, exist in complete opposition to everything that is holy and good and true. Our enemy the flesh is so easily tempted and corrupted that we must continually guard our hearts and minds against not only the world and the devil, but our own vain thoughts and imaginations. And yet, in light of these obvious spiritual realities, your average believer cannot even allow for the possibility that this evil and fallen world in which we live, just may be misrepresenting Gods creation, how such misrepresentations would obviously benefit them, or that ever falling victim to such a misrepresentation could ever be possible.

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Direct flights between cities in the Southern Hemisphere would be physically impossible on your flat earth, yet there are multiple such flights every week. Physical reality stands in stark contrast to the things you claim to be true. So which of us is misrepresenting reality?

Brother Del said:

I have already asked, why are you here if there is nothing to debate?

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To rescue poor souls like yourself from their delusion.

Brother Del said:

Have you ever wondered why we are here? Do you think those of us who disagree with you come here because we enjoy the insults, being called idiots and wingnuts and repeatedly being accused of having no discernment or wisdom and many times even being told that we can't possibly be true Christian believers et etc? Are we masochists? Trolls? Enemies of sent by the devil himself to stir up division? No to all of these.

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I think some of you have a martyr complex, and get validation from drawing ridicule.

Brother Del said:

I can't speak for anyone else, though I know enough people who share my views to confidently say, we are here because at some point in our lives we realized that this world is an empire of lies, ruled by none other than the father of lies, and that a great deal of what we have been told our entire lives served no other purpose than to distract and deceive us into accepting and believing even more lies which would eventually separate us from any knowledge of Almighty God, His creation, His divine purposes, and ultimately His very existence.

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The view of creation put forward by you and your coreligious presents a very limited God, no different from many of the pagan gods. You present the entirety of creation as a giant terrarium. We, on the other hand, are ever in awe of the God of this seemingly unbounded creation. Stars and galaxies that will ever be beyond our reach and serve no other purpose than to glorify our infinite and all powerful creator.

Brother Del said:

That what you call science, and established facts have already had this effect is beyond dispute. The theory of evolution being a prime example. How many people will never believe in God based upon that one scientific theory alone, how many others raised in the faith have abandoned that faith because of the things they were taught as facts during the process of higher education? God only knows.

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Evolution is bunk. Yes, it gets taught as fact but it simply cannot explain the simplest bacteria let alone something as complex as a bird or mammal.

Brother Del said:

We are here because at some point we realized that what we were told did not align with what we have observed.

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Yet what you claim does not align with what we observe.

Brother Del said:

Do we claim to have all the answers, of course not. What we do have are a wealth insufficiently answered questions.

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Your unwillingness to accept the answers you are given does not reflect on their truth.

Brother Del said:

And the God given ability to question those things which we can observably see as unsupported by the commonly accepted answers provided by the so called scientific community and the indoctrinated public at large.

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Yet when a group of people go to the effort and expense of documenting the 24 hour sun in Antarctica, which would be impossible if the earth was flat, you people plug your ears and cry "la, la, la, la". It is clear which group of people is in fact, indoctrinated.

Servus said:

Pretty much anything isn't going to be good enough for the Trump hate camp, so what's the point? Although probably every little bit of good he does irks them.

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45 cent.

You want me to give him a cookie?

Vambram said:

I'm sorry but you appear to not understand how the military chain of command and the UCMJ works.

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That's irrelevant. The fact they are seeking counsel is despite both.

RDKirk said:

Outside counsel can't say anything more than "try it and see."

As I said before, the White House lawyers will ensure that the orders are not "manifestly illegal."

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What comes out of the white house is the concern. Listen, we banter back and forth about the expected protection provided by white house lawyers or whether they have anything to be concerned about. Yet it's clear there are some wearing the uniform who are concerned and just don't want to be put in that position. It's sad the commander in chief rather than reassuring he would never put them in the position of doing anything illegal, instead screams for treason and the the death penalty. It's sad.

Hentenza said:

I’ve had several people that keep the sabbath argue that the sabbath is a moral commandment, therefore, those that do not worship on Saturday are sinning and consequently living in sin. The poll is self explanatory. If you choose maybe please post why.

Be blessed.

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Not at this time in the worlds history. There will come a time when this is true, but it is not true right now. Just before the 2nd coming of Jesus there will be a time when God will make sure everyone understands the issues involved and have to decode for or against it as God is just. But, that has not happened yet.

DamianWarS said:

1 Cor 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

Gal 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Gal 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

These 3 verses are mirror versions of each other. In the 3 verses circumcision is addressed as nothing or without value.

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That is popular religious philosophy in this world God placed me it. But consider what is actually written.

18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Perhaps you can explain how a person who is "circumcised" can become "uncircumcised".

Of course Paul isn't talking about Literal cutting loose skin of a man's penis. But I understand how powerful tradition and pride can be in the uncircumcised heart.

DamianWarS said:

I'm not making a statement as to the broader meaning of circumcision just that in these verses they all follow the same format. Circumsion is negated and contrasted with "what counts".

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But Paul calls the Pharisees or "Jews religion" "The Circumcision", this is undeniable Biblical Truth. He calls Non-Jews, "the uncircumcision". This is undeniable as well. So in each verse, Jew and Gentile actually fit the context of the message more clearly that trying to figure out how to get the skin put back on.

And as it is written, Jesus was the "Minister of Circumcision" and HE made Paul a minister of the same Circumcision as well. A Circumcision promoted by Moses, that is, "circumcision of the heart". So to say "Circumcision" doesn't matter, is not true.

DamianWarS said:

A deeper study on circumcision would no doubt show us a lot more than something without any value but as for these verses that's the focus it takes with a goal to highlight the "what counts" part.

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Well it's certainly true that there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, contrary to the "Jews Religion" who Full well rejected the commandments of god that they might keep their own traditions. But there is "Circumcision" of the heart. So I would be careful not to let popular religious philosophy influence the reading of the Scriptures.

Spiritual Jew said:

Paul says "he is NOT a Jew who is one outwardly...but he IS a Jew who is one inwardly". Douggg says "he is a Jew who is one both outwardly and inwardly". I will go with what Paul says over what you say every time.

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Paul was saying that of the Jews - a person who is truly a Jew is one inwardly - by believing in Jesus.

Paul was not saying that a Gentile by virtue of believing in Jesus is a Jew.

The only thing that matters is if a person is a Christian or not. Believers in Jesus are Christians. Just go with that.

HIM said:

Because you left the context of Galatians 2. The issue is Titus not being compelled to be circumcised. NOT how it is fulfilled in and through Christ.

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The Circumcision Paul speaks to here, is the Circumcision Jesus was a Minister of, that Paul was also made a minster of. A Circumcision of the Heart, as Moses teaches. A circumcision rejected by the Pharisees, the wicked Kings of Israel, the Israelites that fell in the Wilderness, Sodom, and many others according to the God inspired Holy Scriptures. A Circumcision rejected by the Jews who were bewitching the Galatians, who crept unawares to seduce and influence the Church of God, including Titus.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified "by Christ", we ourselves also are found sinners,

Isn't vexing the Non-Jew who chooses to Join himself to the Lord, "walking not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel"?

is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again (The Doctrines and Traditions of the religion who defiled me in the first place) the things which I destroyed, (Like persecuting the Church of God) I make myself a transgressor.

HIM said:

By Titus' refusal to be circumcised, he was not heeding what was written in the Law by the understanding of those in Jerusalem .

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Yes, These preachers who contended with them, were ignorant of God's Law, and had gone about establishing their own. They rejected God's Commandments in favor of their own traditions. If they had been faithful and obedient to God like Zacharias, Simeon, and Anna, they would have received the Spirit of Truth that God gives to those who obey Him, and would have known the Christ, as Zacharias and Simeon knew Christ.

Paul told us "why" these men who had become fools, who were bewitching to Galatians with their doctrine in Romans 1:21,22.

HIM said:

This issue, not fellowshipping with Gentiles and taking on their customs is all being said in context verse 16 where it states

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There is no "LAW" of God that directed His People to not fellowship with faithful non-Jews. In Fact, God's Law specifically states;

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger (non-Jew) that dwelleth with you "shall be unto you as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Those Galatians who Peter was fellowshipping with, had received the Holy Spirit from God, according to Paul's own words. Are they not exactly what this LAW is referring to? And yet the Pharisees didn't consider them as children of Abraham at all. And Peter was influenced by their wicked doctrines. Peter was "transgressing God's Laws", by separating himself from these "non-Jews" who "Believed" to go sit with the mainstream preachers of that time, that didn't believe. And Paul rebuked him for his disobedience, as also required by God's Law..

So this behavior of eating or fellowshipping with faithful Gentiles, "CANNOT" be the "works of the Law" that the children of the devil were promoting to the Galatians.

I'm not going to address the same points over and over with you. But I would like to address a few of the things that I know you are mistaken about. And I know these things are the result of the influence we are surrounded with as I was influenced by them as well. So it isn't meant to demean or insult, just point out.

HIM said:

We are not made righteous by the works of the Law, by what we do if it is not through the faith of Jesus Christ.

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What does it mean, "The Faith of Jesus"? I think it means "Living by" God's Instruction in righteousness, in a world where no one really believes in Him. Like Noah, and Abraham, and Moses and Caleb, and David and Danial and Shadrack and Abednego and Zacharias and Simeon and EVERY EXAMPLE of Faithful man given to us by the God and Father of all. Just as the Christ Jesus Himself did! In fact, it isn't my will that matters, it's God's Will. My will killed me. But Jesus made me alive so I can choose this time to "deny myself" and follow Him. "Lo, in a volume of a book it is written", I come to do Thy will Oh Lord".

HIM said:

Eating with would be considered fellowshipping, wouldn't it?

Gentiles would be unbelievers, unclean, heathen in the Jews eyes.

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First, Who is teaching you that the Galatians Peter was fellowshipping with were "Unbelievers"? And it was a mistake for men to listen to the Pharisees, children of the devil then, why are men still listening to them today?

HIM said:

The Jews have a law in the Book of the Law about not mingling with people who were not of Israel.

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No they don't. You have been taught that the Jews religion was a religion that promoted obedience to God's Laws. That they were trying to earn salvation by obeying God's Laws. This is an insidious lie, and a Leaven that infects everyone who adopts it. It's not true brother.

Gen. 17: 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, "and he that is bought with thy money", must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger (Non-Jew) shall sojourn with thee, "and will keep the passover to the LORD", let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger (Non-Jew) that sojourneth among you.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger (Non-Jew) sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger (Non-Jew) that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers (non-Jews "inwardly") in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man (Jew or Gentile) that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger (Non-Jew), that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD "hath utterly separated me from his people": neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

And yet, I have heard religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, further the religious philosophy of the Pharisees, that it was GOD's Law that relegated faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens "from the commonwealth of Israel", and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

But when we read the Book of the Law, and the Prophets ourself, hear what it is saying my friend. God literally said to the Non-Jew who turned to Him, "Don't Say The LORD "hath utterly separated me from his people".

This is the reason why I replied to your Colossians sermon.

4 For thus saith the LORD "unto the eunuchs" that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 "Even unto them" will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

And to drive this home, because God knew we would be living in a world with these evil doctrines, HE continues.

6 Also the sons of the stranger (Non-Jew), that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So here we are, surrounded by this worlds religions who preach to anyone who will listen to them, that it was God's Laws that caused the Wall of Separation" between Faithful Gentiles and Jews. They preach that it was God's Laws that relegated the faithful Gentile as "without Christ, being aliens "from the commonwealth of Israel", and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

That is was God's Laws that were against Jesus, Paul and the Church of God, that Jesus nailed to the Cross.

But it's a deception as anyone can see, who is seeking the "Circumcision" Jesus was a minister of, the Truth of God.

The question is, do men believe Him?

HIM said:

Peter and the Disciples knew this was not an issue anymore through the Body of Christ,

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It was NEVER an issue with God for a Non-Jew to turn to Him. It was always an issue with the rebellious, "uncircumcised of heart" Jews. Why do you think God sent Israel on their journey if not in part, as a witness for Him? A witness to Whom, If not "Non-Jews"? Will you at least answer this question?

Rom. 2: 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed "among the Gentiles through you", as it is written.

Mal. 1: 11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, "and a pure offering": for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 But ye have profaned it, "in that ye say", The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.

In other words, they say, "God's Laws are impossible to obey, a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on our necks, and they are against us.