ViaCrucis said:

Do you support the innocent citizens of Israel who suffer the shame and embarrassment of having Netanyahu and other murderous extremists in charge? Or do you support the violent and genocidal Netanyahu government?

I support the former. Just as I support the Palestinians.

I support those who want freedom, and the right of peaceful coexistence.

I do not support terrorist organizations and oppressive genocidal regimes.

-CryptoLutheran

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I support Israel who had to defeat Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. I support Israel and Netanyahu with whom Arab nations have signed The Abrahamic Accords.

RocksInMyHead said:

Mkay. Let's not get ahead of ourselves though - the government still has to prove that she did, in fact, lie. At this point, all they've done is assert it.

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The lie and mortgage fraud is in the forms she herself filled out.

Say it aint so said:

Make your case counselors.

A 2018 inspector general report concluded that Comey learned of the leak after the story was published, and that McCabe, in a meeting with Comey, was not initially forthcoming about being the one who permitted the disclosure to a Wall Street Journal reporter.​

CONCLUSION

(U// The investigation (FBI) has not yielded sufficient evidence to criminally charge any person, including Comey or Richman, with making false statements or with the substantive offenses under investigation.​

​

There is a reason why the had to fire the AG who found no reason to bring charges, and replaced him with an insurance lawyer who has no support from her subordinates in filing the indictment. She did it herself, errors and all.

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It all comes down to whom you believe. McCabe or Comey?

It's a good first step, though it took far longer than he claimed it would.

If a lasting peace would manifest out of this, it would certainly warrant praise. But for now, it's a glorified ceasefire like many before, and with no indication of hamas or israel changing the general direction of their policies.

We will see what the near future brings. When the people of Gaza get the help they need (without Hamas stealing it to create tools of war or sell it to them), and when the government of israel steps down from it's war footing, a nobel peace prize would be warranted. But I see neither the leadership of hamas, who got rich and powerful from this guerillia war, nor Netanyahu, who is with one foot in prison without permanent war, being to keen on that prospect.

And please, don't trot out the tired old line of "Trump could cure cancer and the left would decry him". He had a positive foreign policy success. Bully to him. Much like with the Covid-19 vaccine, I have no problem praising something I deem praiseworthy, even on someone I find many things to criticise about.

a somewhat relavant post here
Login to view embedded media assuming this is true, and i tend to think it is, it helps explain why i spiritually knew the christian red pill communities would die out, over a decade ago. God wasn't in it.

AvilaSurfer said:

Hamas is 100% at fault here. And they’ve brainwashed their people they’re “governing” to hate Israel and anyone who lives there. It’s disgusting. Hamas needs to be wiped out.

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I have no sympathy for the actual terrorists within Hamas - but I wonder how many of the original terrorists are even still alive?

But the Palestinian people? That's a different story.

Imagine your city was walled off by some hostile power for decades. The power and water and trade are all intermittent and unreliable.

Imagine you were told you cannot visit your cousin who lives maybe just 50 km away in the West Bank. You are a 'security risk' - just because of where you are born. Then you hear your cousin was illegally kicked out of his house. He's so depressed - some Israeli settlers just came and took it. They had soldiers with them. They did not care that your cousin has a sick wife and 2 kids. He's living with friends - but not sure where he's going to go.

Why didn't he protest more? Oh - that's because you are both aware that your OTHER cousin was SHOT DEAD when he did so. No one cared. No one investigated. It's a homicide - maybe even a war crime given Israel should not even BE in the West Bank under international law. It's illegal imperialism - illegal occupation and settler expansion.

But who cares? Israel certainly doesn't - they have the backing of the USA. They have also hypnotised about 4 times as many American Evangelicals as there are Jews on the planet into being so called "Christian Zionists" who use bad end-times theology to justify favouring Israel - no matter what!

It's been like this for decades - and only getting worse.

THEN you hear the WORST news. You understand the frustration - but not the barbarity of the acts. Hamas - your countrymen - have attacked young Israeli's in the worst way possible! It's a full scale terrorist attack unlike anything Hamas has done before.

Your heart races in your chest - as you fear for your own kids. If life was bad before, what's it going to be like if Israel responds in it's usual disproportionate way? They don't practice "Just War" theory. They use Israeli bombs to 'precision target' some 'perceived' enemy lair - but the bomb itself crushes lungs in a 700 meter diameter kill zone.

---
Let's get real. Hamas killed 1,219 people and took 251 hostages. If we include ALL the hostages as horrific casualties of war - even the living ones because they were illegally kidnapped for 2 years - we're talking about 1470 casualties.

How are the Palestinians doing? Over 65,000 Palestinians dead! In addition to the numbers, it's the spread. At one point it was about a classroom of children a day. So much for 'just war'.

But the number itself? Is that Just War? Is that a proportional response? That's over 44.2 TIMES the original terrorist attack.

bèlla said:

I think you’ll have better luck joining a bible study and fellowshipping with likeminded believers. Most of the people your age are married with children or have other responsibilities that require their attention. The one-on-one relationship you’re seeking for study and prayer is commonly found with older persons. They have the time to pour into you in the manner you’d like.

I had a prayer partner in the past who was older and we attended the same church. We went to lunch every week (often more than once) and were part of a women’s bible study. While I enjoyed her company her need was great and she wanted me in everything and I started to pull away. She was smothering me because of her loneliness. There’s a lot of people like her in the church who’d love the companionship you want. The children are gone and they’re alone.

I was younger at the time and that was my first experience with that form of connecting and I wouldn’t do it again. But that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you for desiring the bond. Our need quotients differ and honoring yours is best. Talk with the older people in your community and see how it goes. There’s people your age seeking the same on the site as well. Maybe you can support one another in the interim.

~bella

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thanks Bella for the response. My church has many older people. I should pray about approaching one of them and see if someone is put on my mind or will come up to me. Thanks!

JustaPewFiller said:

Hi @timechangers - I've read all your posts in this thread. I've struggled a bit with feeling invisible at times. Sometimes I'm actually ok with that - sometimes not. But your posts made me see a different side of the coin as I looked back on my Christian journey over the years.

I see from your posts you are male and I am as well. So we have that in common. There have been times in my church life (particularly in years past) when guys have asked me to a Bible study, or prayer and I have declined. The times I have declined really had nothing to do with the guy inviting me. It had to do with me..

I'm going to list out the typical reasons that I would come up with in my brain that would cause me to say "no" when I did over the years.

• "That guy is like some SUPER Christian! He knows the Bible inside and out! I'd look or feel stupid. Everyone would think I didn't know the Bible well enough."
• "That guy can say a prayer like Shakespeare could write and he can do it at length! I'd sound silly in comparison in my bumbling way of praying."
• "I can't commit to a weekly thing due to other things going on in my life."
• "That guy seems like a really good guy. But does he ever want to talk about or do anything other than the Bible study or prayer? Maybe its on me, but I wonder if he ever talks about sports, or work, or (insert an interest here) that I could relate to more at this stage of my life? I'll run out of things to say if we just talk about the Bible or pray all the time."

In short, it had nothing to do with the guy asking. But, it had everything to do with the reasons I just outlined above that my brain came up with.

I'll tell you a secret of how the first guy to get me into a Bible study did it. We were going to the same church so he knew my name. He started dropping casual questions or bits of info. Like, "Did you catch the game last night?" "Wow, work has been keeping me busy! How is it going for you?" "Hey, I'm thinking of growing a tomato plant. You know anything about it?" In short, he sought common ground where I was comfortable. He got to know me, I go to know him. Then he asked about Bible study - and well - the reasons not to didn't seem to apply as much.

Now, that is just what worked with me. I ended up using similar method to invite people to a Sunday school class I was teaching. As they used to say on the TV commercial, "Your mileage may vary."

I hope this has helped some. I've felt invisible before and I know it can stink sometimes. Prayers to you..

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Thanks for the response. I understand what you are saying. I like sports(cubs baseball and college football) and there are some guys if they asked me to do a Bible study with them I would feel intimidated because I don't know what their interests are besides reading the Bible. So thanks for bringing that up. I could see how someone who doesn't know me very well can get that type of impression about me as well. I need to not take things personally as well. If I focus on the Lord while at church and not so much on socializing(though that is important) I can keep my perspective. I also need to remember when I was in school and picked last for a lot of things, I was not invisible to the Lord who noticed me and called me to follow His Son Jesus. For that I can be thankful.

Soyeong said:

Indeed.

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Do you drive an automobile or ride in any vehicle with an internal combustion engine on the Sabbath?

Always in His Presence said:

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has faced criticism and scrutiny over his stance on the current government shutdown, particularly because he previously voted for a similar spending bill that could have averted it.
Earlier in the year, Schumer joined eight other Democrats and one independent in voting to advance a Republican-crafted bill that avoided a shutdown but handed President Donald Trump a legislative win. At the time, Schumer defended his vote by arguing that a shutdown would have been worse for Americans. However, this move sparked backlash from within his own party, with some Democrats calling for new Senate leadership.

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Yeah, because trusting the Republicans in Congress to negotiate in good faith after they get what they wanted is a bad idea. They, like their party's leader, cannot be trusted to act in good faith.

The GOP is still refusing to negotiate because they know that democrats usually cave in on things like this. But I hope Schumer et al hold fast, because nothing will get done if the Republicans always get their way...and those in need of health care will suffer as a result.

-- A2SG, because the GOP doesn't care about anything but tax cuts for billionaires.....

Aldebaran said:

Why do you worry about soybean money from China? Trump's tariffs are raking in hundreds of billions

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You misunderstand the issue.

Soybean money IS from China into America.

Tariffs are a local domestic tax - a different way of collecting tax from American money from American people on the tax on overseas goods.

American soy growers sell TO China - and make money. But if Trump puts a tariff on anything Chinese - and China responds in kind and puts a tariff on American soy growers, then those farmers are going to lose their market. They're already hurting!

Trump likes tariffs because they tax America's poor even more than the rich. That is - the poor pay a much higher percent of their income as tax on overseas staples. Tariffs are Trump taxing America's poor. It's just like the BBB - doing a reverse Robin Hood to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich.

While it might be HERESY for a MAGA to disagree with Trump on anything, it's OK for genuine Republicans to not like tariffs. You have the permission of Ronald Reagan! I'm a lefty - but MAGA have gone so alt-right that here you have me cheering on Reagan! Check the bits in red and beware!





Appealing to a confused and bewildered working class with simplistic promises is a tried and true tactic of demagogues throughout the 20th century.

If you listen to experts on international trade (like I have on The Economist podcast), the so called agreements that Trump thinks he has won from strutting the stage with his big tariff stick are anything BUT done deals! They are more like vague promissory notes - intentions to do things - rather than actually legally binding trade deals. There are so many i's to dot and t's to cross in the actual details in terms of actual trade deals - things that take 6 months to a year to nut out - that I'd have more faith in America's carbon targets being met by City Mayors and State governors than any of these 'trade deals' actually working out as Trumpeted by Trump!

The whole notion of Trump's tariffs have failed legal tests so far - which he appealed, and will ultimately be tested in the Supreme Court on Nov 5 according to the wiki

Under 'normal' Presidents (those not afflicted with NPD) - these tariff powers were not as abused - and the rule of law respected. The executive has tariff powers, but they're in certain emergency test cases. And no - just because Trump gets shampoo in his eyes one morning and is in a bad mood and wants to whack tariffs on someone for the world having the AUDACITY to let shampoo get in his eyes - no - that is not a trade emergency.

Oompa Loompa said:

Because according to the article, empathy requires accepting and welcoming sinful lifestyles to spare the feelings of others.

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Which is so incorrect it's not even wrong. Empathy is simply the ability to understand what someone else is feeling. It doesn't 'require' anything. Especially accepting or rejecting lifestyles. I've never heard such abject nonsense in a long time. And that's saying something being a regular in this forum...

sjastro said:

To further illustrate that @stevevw doesn't know what he is talking about, here is the method used by Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy for determining circularity.

View attachment 371306
​

They are both using the method of least squares which is a curve fitting exercise.

By comparison circularity known as roundness in ISO 1101 uses MCZ (minimum circle zone) which is defined as all points fitting inside two concentric circles (Figure 81).

View attachment 371307

​

Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy use a curve fitting method which focuses on average error minimization, not maximum deviation where outliers or extreme values are averaged out.
In the ISO 1100 method all points are handled equally including statistical outliers, furthermore the more circular the cross section the less the radius difference between the concentric circles.

The least square method makes cross sections look more circular compared to MCZ which is used by all professional metrology software conforming to ISO 1101.
Given the near perfect symmetry and circularity nonsense spouted by @stevevw it's not surprising this is the case when amateur software is used.

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I give up. You win lol. I can't keep doing this techno stuff. Your killing me with science lol. I have two different claims. In fact I have several independent groups saying these are 3D anaysis and they speak in 3D language about the vases precision in the shapes like spheres and cyclinders.

They appear to have done the 3D metrology and software analysis in the language they use over and over and over again.

If you claim that I am not technically able to go into the specific then why are you throwing this stuff at me.

Like I said write a paper. You have half done it already it seems. Finish it and send it in to the research groups to point out this obvious error they all overlooked and that you are the only one who spotted it lol.

RandyPNW said:

I think that's great. Yes, the Law contained all the elements later said to contain moral, ceremonial, and judicial aspects. But they were all a single agreement. Failing to obey Sabbath Law was the same as failure to respect God's name and not use it "vainly." Our failure under ceremonial law was equal to our failure under moral law.

We not only fail to carry out God's instructions at times, but we also fail to abide by morals perfectly. We all are guilty of a kind of murder when we get angry with one another. We are all guilty of lust when we look too long in the wrong direction.

The covenant of Law condemned the whole human race, including Israel who was under that covenant, because all sinners, by their record, are prevented from access to the Tree of Life. It was a single covenant that required holiness of Israel, but at the same time it showed that nobody qualifies for Eternal Life apart from Christ and his mercy.

The Law accomplished an important matter in establishing what had been known since the garden, that the human record under the effects of sin disqualified all sinners from the Tree of Life. And so, moral, ceremonial, and judicial law all condemned Israel as sinners, disqualified from Salvation, if they failed to proceed to God's cure, which is obedience to Christ.

It is quite true that God's Law remains in effect as a moral standard for all mankind. We remain subject to God's word and to God's Law. But we will not find Eternal Life by obeying God's word under the Law of Moses, neither moral, ceremonial, nor judicial. Not only would such an "obedience" disqualify us from Life, but it would show contempt for Christ who fulfilled the very Mercy that the Law of Moses had been directing Israel towards.

We follow moral law, though not under the Law of Moses but now under obedience to Christ, who combines law and mercy. If we live by his Spirit we will not only show his righteousness, but in showing his righteousness we will also qualify for his mercy.

It is not important to show that obedience to God is similar under the covenant of Law and the covenant of Christ. The important thing is to direct our morality to the same God who presided over both covenants and who now asks nothing more than we obey Christ, His Son. In doing so, not only is our record of failure eliminated, but we have mercy through the one whose record qualified him to forgive us.

Under the Law our moral record condemned us. By obedience to Christ we rely on Christ's mercy and the grace of his gift of righteousness. We continue to live moral lives and to live by the law of God's word. But we know that our record would disqualify us if we did not turn to Christ for mercy.

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Amen and further more God's law is a delight and blessing to those saved by grace. Blessed is the man who's sins God does not count against him. Just because one is saved by grace and is perfected forever by Christ's one sacrifice does not mean that they are going to lay the reigns on the neck of lust. Absolutely not. We seek to be holy even as He is holy because we love Him. We adore HIm. And desire to be like Him. Obeying God is not a drag or a sacrifice because we recieve blessing upon blessing by doing so.

We delight to do your will O' God...

ARBITER01 said:

You're not obeying Jesus if you're obeying moses. In fact, a person obeying moses does not know Jesus, and He does not know them.

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And yet Jesus instructed the young man in Matt 19 to obey the ten commandments in order to enter life. When you can reconcile such verses as Matt 19:17, Rom 2:7, and Rom 2:13 with verses such as Gal 2:16

"...know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ."

Or Eph 2:8-10
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

then you'll even better understand the gospel.

Colo Millz said:

A little hard for them to do that now they have no nuclear weapons.

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It is known that enough refined uranium to make several nuke bombs, is still in Iranian hands.
They also have the missiles to deliver them to Israel. They are merely waiting for the Appointed time.

Psalms 94:1-7 God of vengeance1, show Yourself. Repay the arrogant as they deserve. Rise now and judge the earth, give to the godless their just penalty. Lord: How long will the wicked exult? Evildoers oppress Your people, Your chosen nation. They say: The Lord does not see, the God of Jacob pays no heed.

Isaiah 42:14-15 Long have I restrained Myself2, I kept silence and held Myself in check, now I am like a woman in labour, as in the throes of childbirth. I shall lay waste to the land, dry up rivers and lakes will become deserts.

Psalms 102:13 & 19-20 You will arise and have mercy on Zion, for it is time to pity her. The appointed time has come3. The Lord looks down from His sanctuary on high and surveys the earth. He hears the supplications of the exiles and will set free those threatened with annihilation.

Psalms 78:65-66 Then the Lord awoke as a sleeper awakes4, as a warrior suddenly disturbed. He struck His foes and defeated them, to their eternal shame.

Psalms 2:4-9 The Lord, enthroned in the heavens5 laughs and derides His enemies. Angrily He rebukes them and in His wrath, He devastates the nations, shattering them like a clay pot.

Psalms 11:4-6 The Lord is on His throne in heaven5. He observes all people and judges them. He hates those who love violence. He will rain fiery coals and brimstone upon the wicked peoples6; scorching winds will be their sentence.

Psalms 50:1-5 Our God is coming and will not keep silent. A consuming fire runs ahead of Him and around Him a great storm rages6.

Psalms 18:13 The Lord thundered from the heavens5, He raised His voice amid hail and glowing coals. He hurled forth arrows of lightning6 and sped them to their mark.

Joel 1:15, 2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 4:1, Zeph. 3:8, Isaiah 13:9, Isaiah 66:15-16, Jer. 9:22 The Day is near, the Day of the Lord it comes, as a mighty destruction from the Almighty. On that unexpected Day, the sky will be dispersed with a great noise and the earth will be enveloped in flames7. All peoples will be brought to judgement and many will die.
Ref; REB. Some verses abridged.

1/ We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and this means that He must exact a just punishment onto those who deny Him and ignore His commands. Nahum 1:2, Isaiah 1:24, Romans 1:18

2/ The Lord has kept out of world affairs and allowed people to follow their own desires. This is our free will choice. Isaiah 64:7, Eccl. 8:5-7, Psalms 89:46, 1 Thess. 4:6-8

3/ God has a plan and all that is prophesied will come to pass at its appointed time. Isaiah 46:10, Psalms 33:10-11

4/ The Lord springs into action! Haggai 2:21-22, Amos 5:9, Joel 2:11, Psalms 144:5-6

5/ This event is NOT the Return, the Lord stays in His sanctuary. Psalms 7:6-16, Isa 60:1-3

6/ The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times throughout the Bible, the Day of punishment on the nations, triggered by an attempted attack by Iran, sending nuke missiles onto the State of Israel. Zechariah 5:1-10, Psalms 83:1-18, Habakkuk 3:12, Isaiah 34:1-5

7/ The only logical explanation for a worldwide fire, is a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion of the suns surface. This is confirmed by Isaiah 30:26 and Malachi 4:1.

A CME of unprecedented magnitude will strike the earth, the mass of superheated hydrogen plasma will fulfil all the prophesied effects: in the sky, heat, smoke, electrical, volcanic, earthquakes and the loss of our modern infrastructure. Deut. 32:22 & 34-35, Ezekiel 21:10, Revelation 6:12-17

Tellyontellyon said:

Matthew 18:10 KJV
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

.....

What does this mean? Do the little children have angel in heaven that is connected to them? Do we all have an angel in heaven that corresponds to us?
Do some of our angels do something other than behold God? Is my angel less innocent/good than a child's angel?

Or does it mean that when a child dies it becomes a particularly devoted angel?
Do we become angels if we go to heaven?

Or is the soul actually an angel and we are in heaven at the same time as being on earth without knowing it? We are our own angel, so to speak?

Or... what does it mean?

Cheers

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You may have heard of the idea of a "guardian angel". The popular conception of this is not something I think any Christian should endorse; but historically Christianity does acknowledge (on the basis of biblical texts such as this one) that there are angels who watch over us. So, the simplest explanation here is that Jesus is talking about the angels who have been tasked by God to watch over the little ones.

Does that mean I have a specific angel assigned to watch over me? I mean, maybe? That has been a belief many Christians have had.

But it is just as possible that out of God's love and care for His creation He tasks angels with watching over us--and it doesn't have to be any more specific than that.

As for the other stuff:

Humans don't become angels. Angels and humans are categorically different kinds of creatures--humans are humans and will always be human; angels are angels and will always be angels. So no, people don't become angels, the soul isn't an angel--the soul is simply an aspect of my humanity. The best way to think of the human soul is that the soul speaks of the rational, relational, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of being human. All creatures have a soul--they have the breath of life (that's what the most basic meaning of "soul" is, "breath"); the human soul is unique and distinct in that it is a rational soul; we feel we think we have a rich and complex mind, and most important we can have a relationship with God as moral creatures that were made to reflect God's goodness and love into the world. You aren't a soul with a body; and you aren't a body with a soul--you're a human being, body-and-soul.

Angels are angels.

-CryptoLutheran

sjastro said:

Your cognitive dissonance has apparently affected your understanding of the English language. What part of my post(s) did you not understand where suspect software or its failure to analyse scans as 3D objects which is a given fact, cannot lead to any form of conclusion on how the vases were manufactured?

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Because the vases were analysed as 3D vases. We have several independent tests and 3D analysis has been included. You keep creating red herrings with this false idea that the vases must be analysed by some specific softward or they are wrong. They mention that new methods were created because these vases had no precedence to be able to measure the 3D surfaces.

You keep making out that this obviously and simple error you have created in your own mind makes all the independent tests from several research groups invalid. Yet they all speak in language that these vases have been verified as being 3D precise.

Your single objection is wiping out pages and pages of analysis that clearly contradicts your claim. They speak of industry standards in hardware and softeware for comparison to how they have analysed the software. I think I would rather believe the words spoken by the actual people doing the tests and that it is actually you who are in error.

We 3D Scanned Egypt's Oldest Vases | Micron-Level ...

Introducing Precision Metrology in the Study of Ancient Egyptian Stone Vessels

Surface variability (deviations from an idealized smooth surface) has been quantified for each object by comparing 3D scan data to a derived best-fit surface model. This innovative approach eliminates the traditional reliance on CAD models, which are currently the standard for analyzing manufactured parts. The best-fit model is generated by fitting a series of mathematical functions to the 2D profile of the scan data, creating a smooth, continuous surface that mathematically represents the artifact’s actual curvature. By comparing the scanned surface points (yi) to this derived best-fit surface (^y), we can quantify deviations across the entire object.

This process, developed to address limitations in conventional metrology, enables precise, artifact-specific analysis without prior design information.

The 3D models of CAT scans of the ‘precise’ vases look like CAD models: their symmetry is so perfect that it is difficult to spot any surface profile variability when these models are rotated – Fig. 23-24.
https://maximus.energy/wp-content/u...ptian-Stone-Vessels_-A-Metrological-Study.pdf

If they can rotate a scanned vase in the software in 3D then they can analyse the vase in 3D. Simple as that.

sjastro said:

Stop making stupid ignorant comments on subject matters clearly beyond your level of understanding.
ISO 1101 is nothing more than a collection of letters and numbers to you, it defines zonal tolerances for 3D objects which is beyond the scope of the amateur software of Maximus.energy and Artifacts Foundation.

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Yes so I figure out that the actual language being used is speaking on the vases in 3D language and not 2D. Your trying to use tech speak and the general laypersons ignorance to fool them with fallacies lol. In the hope that we won't see through your false analogies and misrepresentation of the findings.

I just don't think these researchers are lying when they say they analysed these vases in their 3D forms and not just 2D that it renders pages of anaysis as wrong based on such an obvious and simple error. I think you are mistaken and have not yourself understood their methods and how they incoporated 3D analysis.

From what I understand they more or less created new software to analysis these vases in 3D because they had no recedent to go by as far as precision tooling and machining is concerned. To say that these projects that wanted to use the latest tech in show that these vases are precise would neglect the most obvious measure which would be required to support their precision (3D) metrology and analysis seems too obvious a thing to be missed.

sjastro said:

If you had the necessary comprehension skills, the answer has been given on numerous occasions. Also don't let the facts get in the way when vase data analysed by Polyworks and Zeiss Inspector do not show 'hairs' deviation.

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But other methods were used as well. Besides exactly what level of deviation would Polyworks and Zeiss inspector show. How can all the research groups with different independent hardware and softeware all come to the same findings of up to hair thickness precision. Its the different methods coming to similar findings that refutes your claim. All the methods cannot be wrong.

Those that are independent and different will lend support for the other methods that find similar precision.

sjastro said:

What a load of BS the software they used is not industry standard.

Click to expand...

I have your opinion and I have theirs actually in a paper with actual research, tests and analysis published formerly.

sjastro said:

Another concept beyond your level of understanding involves echo chambers. Did it ever occur to you they are preaching to the converted and so why should any doubts be raised?

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Like I said mainstream archeology recognises the precision and that this is from some sort of lathing or wheel. They even cheat with wheels to try and get similar precision lol. The idea that these vases involve some sort of tech beyond the orthodoxy is mainstream and not just a small group of whackos lol.

Have you ever considered that this 'echo chamber' might also be coming from skeptics and cynnics. The gatekeepers who want to preserve a certain paradigm or worldview about human history and knowledge.

This is just as likely as you claim the conspiracy groups. In fact if we look over the history of science we see that it was actually the ideas that contradicted the consensus and were deemed whacko that ended up becoming the fact. So I would not be too quick to lump those who are open to alternative ideas are in an ech chamber.

sjastro said:

Since you are presenting their arguments here I'm asking you why did they not use professional approved software in the analysis?

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If you read the articles as I linked part of above they actually address and explain this very point. Hopw about you explain why their methods are not valid. Remembering that this is new software created to analysed these vases.

In other words they are not only preficent in using the standard industry software but they are skilled enough to create new industry standards of software to properly analyse the vases in full 3D form as they are unrecedented objects that required new methods of anaysing. .

ARBITER01 said:

Again, I disagree with you. Catholicism is a works based system towards earning grace. Communion in Catholicism is a representing of The Lord Jesus's body and blood for salvation.

I think we will agree to disagree.

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Well, you obviously don't know Catholocism at all, so there's nothing to agree or disagree with in any case here. Study, for yourself, so that then you may know. That's really the only way it works.

ARBITER01 said:

Communion in Catholicism is a representing of The Lord Jesus's body and blood for salvation.

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Sorry, no idea what you're meaning to say there.

ThatRobGuy said:

It sounds like the consensus is that it's too close to decision time for this year.

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That's going to be your excuse for him not winning, is it?

Say nothing about him using military force against his own people, blowing up civilian boats, pardoning people who tried to overthrow democracy in his favour, his 'War Secretary' telling the military they can commit war crimes and numerous other not at all peaceful acts.

If the Nobel committee gives him the Peace Prize, it would be because they are afraid of him putting a price on their heads or invading their country.