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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist
- Controversial Christian Theology
- 305 Replies
This is from the bogus canons which were inserted illegally into the council by Emperor Justinian. He had NO BUSINESS doing this and was interfering for political reasons.
Here's more information on this, if you are so inclined to read. Unfortunately, those who have made up their minds are usually impervious to facts:
Did the Fifth Ecumenical Council Condemn Universal Salvation?
[This article has been extensively revised and republished under the title “Apokatastasis, Origenism, Fifth Ecumenical Council.” During the course of my revision, I discovered that the …
afkimel.wordpress.com
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John the Revelator
- By slaney3
- Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum
- 0 Replies
The apostle John (also known as John the Evangelist) was one of the four gospel writers as well as an author of two other main books, including Revelation and his epistle, that became the final chapters of the New Testament. John covers several areas in his gospel that speak about the life, teachings, and truth of what Christ did to redeem his people within the events, death and resurrection that took place on earth.
In John’s Gospel
He tells how you must be born again to inherit the kingdom that God opened up for us through his son. Whoever is born of the flesh is equal to flesh, John states in chapter 3, when Jesus replied to Nicodemus, saying, “ye cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and spirit” (v. 4-5). How one can enter through the spirit is taught by examples of what Jesus did and explained in his teachings.
When Jesus healed a man born blind, he proved that he was about to give sight to others who have been blinded — those who could not see spiritually. Jesus came into the world to die for them so that they may have light. But judgment also came into being for those who could see would become blind. Jesus was able to heal the blind man because he wasn’t able to see physically, but spiritually, he believed in him as the Messiah.
It’s important to realize that those who do see spiritually and understand that he is the way, the truth and the life, will be hated for his name’s sake. But it is also important to keep his commands, as stated in John’s gospel:
Before Jesus had ascended into heaven, he said to his disciples: behold, the hour is coming that you must believe and not question me, for in the world you will have tribulation, but in him you will have peace. And be sure to take heart that the father is with you because he has overcome the world for us. Many false prophets will rise up in the end times, and we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God.
In John’s Epistle
Anyone who does not confess Jesus as lord is of the Antichrist, and they will fall into destruction because they have not received the true gospel that has been given to us. They have followed after their own pleasures — involving a passion and desire for the world — because they have preferred the things that are within it: This could be drugs, sexual immorality, satanic music, or anything else that is from the occult.
These are instrumental ways that can either pull people away or deceive them from the necessary means of truly believing in God. But if we choose to trust him, we do not altogether refrain from practicing what is sinful, but learn to avoid the implications and consequences of what they can do to our lives, physically and mentally, and even spiritually.
Since He overcame our deeds for us, take heed that you are under his wings through the spiritual direction that’s been given to us. If you do not love the world, you can have victory in Christ through having faith. God is pure, but we cannot manifest anything holy in life without being made perfect through the propitiation of our sins. So we are protected on the day of judgment by what he did for us because of his grace and our desire to live with him. For whoever loves God remains in the son, but those who prefer the world instead, do not hold the truth of the father in them, and therefore, they will not see life. The word of God is greater than men, and this is the testimony that John gave to us:
In the Book of Revelation
John was also given a vision that speaks about the scrolls which open up into seven seals:
These events can be compared to the seven trumpets that will take place during the 7-year tribulation period. The first trumpet represents hail and fire mixed with blood falling upon the earth. A third of it will become burned to ashes, much like what took place in the book of Exodus. This trumpet causes agricultural chaos in the earth, while the second trumpet brings destruction upon the seas, turning its oceans into rivers of blood. During the third trumpet, wormwood will have fallen from the sky, causing the water to be polluted, almost undrinkable, where famine will begin to occur more rapidly.
Then there was the fourth and fifth trumpet where the sun and moon become darkened, and locusts will have been released from outer space. At the sixth trumpet, there will be four angels released from heaven who kill over a third of mankind. Final judgement will then occur at the seventh trumpet, when the second coming of Christ has been revealed, and the destruction of evil has taken place, to set up his kingdom against those who did not repent of their works (Revelation 9:20-21).
bibleoutlook.net
In John’s Gospel
He tells how you must be born again to inherit the kingdom that God opened up for us through his son. Whoever is born of the flesh is equal to flesh, John states in chapter 3, when Jesus replied to Nicodemus, saying, “ye cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and spirit” (v. 4-5). How one can enter through the spirit is taught by examples of what Jesus did and explained in his teachings.
When Jesus healed a man born blind, he proved that he was about to give sight to others who have been blinded — those who could not see spiritually. Jesus came into the world to die for them so that they may have light. But judgment also came into being for those who could see would become blind. Jesus was able to heal the blind man because he wasn’t able to see physically, but spiritually, he believed in him as the Messiah.
It’s important to realize that those who do see spiritually and understand that he is the way, the truth and the life, will be hated for his name’s sake. But it is also important to keep his commands, as stated in John’s gospel:
Already have we been made clean because of his word, so if we abide in him as one of his branches, ask whatever you need, and it will be given to you, for he is the vine who holds authority, that we may also bear fruit. However, since we have been called out of this world and are no longer of it, you will be persecuted and reviled against. As long as we continue in the spirit of truth, the helper will come for our aid. By bearing witness to his name, even in front of one another, he will protect you from the wrath of the enemy.
Before Jesus had ascended into heaven, he said to his disciples: behold, the hour is coming that you must believe and not question me, for in the world you will have tribulation, but in him you will have peace. And be sure to take heart that the father is with you because he has overcome the world for us. Many false prophets will rise up in the end times, and we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God.
In John’s Epistle
Anyone who does not confess Jesus as lord is of the Antichrist, and they will fall into destruction because they have not received the true gospel that has been given to us. They have followed after their own pleasures — involving a passion and desire for the world — because they have preferred the things that are within it: This could be drugs, sexual immorality, satanic music, or anything else that is from the occult.
These are instrumental ways that can either pull people away or deceive them from the necessary means of truly believing in God. But if we choose to trust him, we do not altogether refrain from practicing what is sinful, but learn to avoid the implications and consequences of what they can do to our lives, physically and mentally, and even spiritually.
Since He overcame our deeds for us, take heed that you are under his wings through the spiritual direction that’s been given to us. If you do not love the world, you can have victory in Christ through having faith. God is pure, but we cannot manifest anything holy in life without being made perfect through the propitiation of our sins. So we are protected on the day of judgment by what he did for us because of his grace and our desire to live with him. For whoever loves God remains in the son, but those who prefer the world instead, do not hold the truth of the father in them, and therefore, they will not see life. The word of God is greater than men, and this is the testimony that John gave to us:
Our faith continues through knowing him, not by carrying a heavy weight because of what we’ve done, but by what he did at Calvary. Do not be eerie on what you’ve done in the past or present time, or what you will do in the future, but look forward into his plan for your life to come. Time is running out until he is coming again, very soon!
In the Book of Revelation
John was also given a vision that speaks about the scrolls which open up into seven seals:
- The White Horseman — Its rider comes out to conquer wearing a crown and carrying a bow
- The Red Horseman — Its rider who removes peace from the earth, having people slayed by his sword
- The Black Horseman — Its rider holding a pair of scales in his hand
- The Pale Horseman — its rider’s name was death to kill one fourth of the earth with famine and pestilence
- The Fifth Seal — the souls who are slain for becoming Christians at Armageddon
- The Sixth Seal — representing a great earthquake that falls upon the people awaiting refuge
- The Seventh Seal — representing the second coming
These events can be compared to the seven trumpets that will take place during the 7-year tribulation period. The first trumpet represents hail and fire mixed with blood falling upon the earth. A third of it will become burned to ashes, much like what took place in the book of Exodus. This trumpet causes agricultural chaos in the earth, while the second trumpet brings destruction upon the seas, turning its oceans into rivers of blood. During the third trumpet, wormwood will have fallen from the sky, causing the water to be polluted, almost undrinkable, where famine will begin to occur more rapidly.
Then there was the fourth and fifth trumpet where the sun and moon become darkened, and locusts will have been released from outer space. At the sixth trumpet, there will be four angels released from heaven who kill over a third of mankind. Final judgement will then occur at the seventh trumpet, when the second coming of Christ has been revealed, and the destruction of evil has taken place, to set up his kingdom against those who did not repent of their works (Revelation 9:20-21).
bibleoutlook.net
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Faith/Works
- By slaney3
- Salvation (Soteriology)
- 0 Replies
Paul and James on Justification
The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.
While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).
Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:
“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.
If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.
So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.
If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.
In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.
We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?
No works ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah: “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).
However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.
The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.
While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).
Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:
“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.
If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.
One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it’s part of our natural human tendency.
So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.
If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.
In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.
We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?
No works ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah: “All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).
However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.
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