New Posts

david p · 2025-07-11T14:38:29-0500

Imagine coming off of a boat/ark with NO life around besides the lives which are on the boat/ark. Would you be able to keep your composure when the entire land, in every direction, is barren with life?

So Noah, who was already probably a drinker of 'wine' before beginning to build the boat/ark with specific dimensions to be followed, builds the boat/ark in order to avoid being in the middle of the 'war' that he was warned, by God, of and The LORD God begins to bring in the animals into the boat/ark. It wasn't Noa(c)h who gathered the living creatures into the boat/ark but it was The LORD God Who was leading the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, etc..... into the boat/ark that was being built to 'save' those which The LORD God wanted to be saved.....

And when the flood dissipated enough for life to get back onto muddy but solid enough ground, those that which were in the boat/ark began to leave the boat/ark onto the muddy but dry enough land. And looking around, what 'life' would they have saw? Even the trees would have been under water for over 40 plus days....

So completely in some form of 'shock', per se, Noa(c)h and the 'sons' and the 'wives', were the ONLY human life(s) which they had for any 'socializing'. They didn't even have any enemies because there were NO other human life(s).. So Noa(c)h in his already matured life is in some sort of dizziness, bewilderment, shock, breathless... new social life.... new daily life... new planting and eating life.... new building life... etc.....
For him, the old was passed and he had to deal with the new.... he didn't drink because he was a drunkard, per se... He drank because he NEEDED to keep his nerves from having him tear his beard out....

What his grandson, Canaan, received was for the wrong his son, 'Ham' did. Canaan received the so called 'curse'. Ham saw the nakedness of his father's body and didn't find it shameful enough but rather something to be laughed and jeered about.... maybe even out of the same dizziness, bewilderment, shock, breathless... new social life.... new daily life... new planting and eating life.... new building life... etc..... that even he himself, Ham, had to go through in his 'new' life... his old having 'passed'.... So Ham was already probably a sort of prankster before his 'new' life... and maybe to keep himself from losing his own 'mind', he did what he might have done before the flood to keep himself from thinking he had become a total 'stranger' to himself.... there was NO other human around....

Now about the 'sin' part.
Of course 'sin' is the transgression of the Law... but 'sin', or even The Law, was not yet handed/given to Moses. So what Ham did could not be seen as a 'transgression' of The Law which was received by Moses.....

So bad manners...

And.... ?

Love365 · 2025-07-11T14:34:15-0500

How often do they try to make a new type of video game?

Uriah S · 2025-07-11T14:27:58-0500

Fine. Really. Everyone adores Klingons.

KLNGN

Dan Perez · 2025-07-11T14:23:16-0500

Hoping2 said:
"Water" doesn't need to be in the Greek text.
There was no other way to get baptized, besides with with water.
It is what John used, unto repentance, (and remission of sins).
Nothing changed between John's and Peter's baptisms, other than using Jesus' name during the rite.

And maybe Paul name does not. also or the Greek word Baptism. need to be in. the Greek Text ?
dan p

Fervent · 2025-07-11T14:08:51-0500

Hazelelponi said:
Fervent,

I understand your analogy is meant to expose what you see as a flaw in Calvinism, but what it actually does is flatten and misrepresent both God’s holiness and His grace. And in doing so, it trades the beauty of the gospel for something unrecognizably distorted.

The analogy of an arsonist setting a fire just to rescue people for personal glory is deeply flawed—because it assumes that mankind was neutral, innocent, or undeserving of judgment in the first place. That is not the biblical story.

“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23)
“There is none righteous, no, not one… there is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10, 18)

The fall of Adam was not a neutral event—it was the willful rebellion of man against a holy God. And every one of us, by nature, has followed in that rebellion. The house was already in flames. The arsonist wasn’t God. The match was in our hands.

So what does God do? He sends Christ into the fire—not to gloat in rescue, but to be consumed in our place. The cross is not the act of a manipulative deity—it is the self-giving love of a holy and merciful God, saving people who deserve nothing but wrath, by taking that wrath upon Himself.

You said this view of God dishonors Him. But if God were not sovereign over sin—even its allowance—then evil would exist outside His control. And a God who isn’t sovereign isn’t trustworthy. The very promise that God can work all things for good (Rom. 8:28) requires that He governs all things—even the darkest ones.

“You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.” (Genesis 50:20)

God didn't create sin—but He did ordain a world in which sin would be defeated by the greater display of grace and glory in Christ. That doesn’t make Him guilty. It makes Him God.

“He has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills... But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?” (Romans 9:18–20)

You may feel this doctrine of sovereign election is uncomfortable—but that discomfort doesn’t disprove it. Many found Jesus’ teaching hard. They walked away when He said, “No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (John 6:65–66)

But I would rather embrace a hard truth that humbles me than a soft lie that elevates man and limits God.

In the end, Calvinism doesn’t make God an “arsonist.” It proclaims Him as the Holy One who entered the fire Himself to redeem a people for His name.

“For our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:29)

And if He has set His love on anyone, it is not because they deserved it—but because He is love.

The problem is, Calvinists blame human beings for things that God (supposedly) caused them to do. If Calvinism is true, there is only one sinner; God. Because there is only one will, God's. Your rationalization of the arsonist analogy doesn't actually address the central point, which is the distorted idea about what brings God glory present within Calvinism. The notion that human beings are cupable for sin that God brought about through them, while denying that God who is the sole cause of that sin coming about bears any responsibility is an affront to the God of the Bible since it turns the gospel into a mockery.

Fervent · 2025-07-11T13:59:46-0500

Welcome

Look forward to enjoying some digital fellowship

Hope you find the community we've got here edifying, there's a lot of good folk here.

Fervent · 2025-07-11T13:54:10-0500

The Liturgist said:
That’s true, and I appreciate your desire to avoid the excesses that I urge members to avoid. That being said, some debate and criticism is legitimate, although one could also say it is strictly speaking off-topic for this thread, which you have observed, and which I again greatly appreciate.

I do also appreciate the very friendly manner in which you and @chevyontheriver have engaged in this thread, which in my view exemplifies how we should try to interact in this manner; I am not a fan of the Wesleyan remark of “agreeing to disagree” as I see it as being Pietistic and anti-doctrinal, representing the normalization of schism or the normalization of the minimization of doctrine (and Wesley, for all his good, did experience pietist influences, chiefly from the Moravians, as well as the influence of the similiar Latitudinarian movement within Anglicanism).

But without agreeing to disagree we can still agree to a dialectical model that is cordial, that refrains from logical fallacies or gross historical inaccuracies, such as the alternate histories of the early church proposed by some Restorationist denominations and also by the Landmark Baptists and those influenced by them*

*On the other hand, some skepticism of the generally accepted Patristic narrative such as evinced by your own beliefs is obviously something that can be accepted, particularly since some hagiographic texts are known to contain inaccuracies or accidental confusions, for example, the Copts regard the Ethiopian synaxarion to be more reliable than their own, for their own synaxarion confuses Eusebius of Caesarea with Eusebius of Nicomedia with regards to the incident surrounding the death of Arius, which is embarassing since the Syriac Orthodox, the historical main communion partner of the Copts, venerate Eusebius as a saint with the feast day of February 29th, which in the Byzantine Rite is the feast day of St. John Cassian interestingly (and for saints with their feast on the 29th of February there are rubrics for what to do when it is not a leap year at least in the case of St. John Cassian), but completely discarding it and instead, without any archaeological or historical textual evidence to support it, claiming that certain ancient heretical sects such as the Paulicans, Bogomils, Marcionites, etc were anachronistic proto-Protestants, when all historical evidence suggests that most Protestants including all confessional Lutherans, confessional Calvinists and creedal Anglicans would find their doctrines utterly abhorrent, is something else.

Indeed among the Orthodox and Catholics committed to a Patristic theological model of the church, an accurate historical record and critical editions of the Patristic corpus and of liturgical texts such as the Divine Liturgy of St. James (the Byzantine version of which until recently lacked a good, robust translation free from speculative interpolations from a 19th century Greek translator, but ROCOR has provided a really good translation in English and Church Slavonic that also avoids weirdness like celebrating the liturgy versus populum on a makeshift altar in front of the Iconostasis being deleted, for this kind of thing confuses the laity and is not actually called for by the ancient rubrics, and is further anachronistic in that historically there was a templon or curtain and the Bema of the Armenian and Assyrian churches, but the full iconostasis as seen in contemporary Byzantine, Coptic and some Syriac churches took a while to develop from early proto-iconostases). Thus we want to make sure our historical record is accurate, even though we do accept many events which I believe you have expressed a view of as being incredible.

But in general, your conduct has been that of a responsible debater, who has never caused any of the harm I alluded to in the OP.

Recently in another thread also where you and my friend @BNR32FAN and our mutual friend @Xeno.of.athens have been present the three of us shared the unpleasant experience of encountering what one might call a “trackless trolley” minus the “ey”, by which I am not referring to a trolleybus, but rather one dewired in an altogether different way and in a manner than what sometimes happens to busses powered by overhead electric cables such as one finds in San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Philadelphia, Dayton, and until recently also in Boston.

Which takes me to another point - these overly intense theological debates create enmity which prevents us from discussing other fun subjects like, for example, mass transit systems, which i absolutely adore. I would love to discuss mass transit for hours with any member of the forum who is interested in the subject. When I was in my youth I persuaded my parents to obtain for me, at great expense, a copy of Jane’s Urban Transport Systems (then in one of its earliest editions as a standalone apart from Jane’s World Railways) and i recall reading breathlessly about the different transit systems in Tashkent, Torino and Toronto and in Dalian, Delhi and Dortmund, and the different manufacturers, particularly of monorails, peoplemovers, hovertrains (like the Otis peoplemovers used to access the Getty center in Los Angeles, which ride on a cushion of air, or the even more aggressive Aeromovel of Brazil, and of course full-fledged maglevs such as the Transrapid in Shanghai which sadly I did not get the chance to ride on before its maximum speed was decreased from 256 MPH to 186 MPH) and the new Shinkansen maglev being developed of necessity in Japan due to overcrowding on a portion of the original conventional Shinkansen line, and other specialized high tech transit systems (but not hyperloop, which has been overdiscussed, and is also, as Elon Musk may have conceded by calling the related company he established The Boring Company, kind of literally boring, and as exciting as Tunnel Boring Machines are to some, I am not an enthusiast, since they engage in too much boring for me, although I do appreciate the fruits of their boring).

I appreciate your words, and the respectful exchanges we've had despite our differences. I agree that "agree to disagree" is the wrong approach, at least if it is applied to all doctrinal matters. As I mentioned in the other thread, I see doctrine as being a layered issue. There are some areas where there is room for disagreement because there isn't a clear exposition or negation in either the Bible or traditional authorities. Then there are issues that rise to the level of separation, but not disfellowship. These for me tend to be issues of authority, where there is substantial traditional or Biblical reasons to maintain or deny the issue but there is still some room for debate. Then there is the nonstarters, the well defined heretical positions that have been consistently maintained throughout church history and have been expressly anathematized by ecumenical councils. The stuff that touches on either Christ's deity or othe Christological concerns that disagreeing with renders a person outside of Christian theology entirely and into some other theistic belief. I am not saying such individuals are not saved, simply that their theology cannot be tolerated and any implication of tolerance must be avoided.

I don't believe reunification is possible at this point, but I do desire a broad sense of ecumenical respect and understanding which I appreciate the reciprocation that has been present within this thread.

Fantine · 2025-07-11T13:42:06-0500

Say it aint so said:
Why Kerr County balked on a new flood warning system

Kerr County did not opt for (American Rescue Plan Act) ARPA to fund flood warning systems despite commissioners discussing such projects nearly two dozen times since 2016. In fact, a survey sent to residents about ARPA spending showed that 42% of the 180 responses wanted to reject the $10 million bonus altogether, largely on political grounds.

“I’m here to ask this court today to send this money back to the Biden administration, which I consider to be the most criminal treasonous communist government ever to hold the White House,” one resident told commissioners in April 2022, fearing strings were attached to the money.

“We don't want to be bought by the federal government, thank you very much,” another resident told commissioners. “We'd like the federal government to stay out of Kerr County and their money.”

Even Kelly, the Kerr County judge remarked that this “old law partner” – U.S. Sen. John Cornyn – had told him that if the county did not spend the money it would go back to blue states.

The hatred for anything brought to you by Dems is intolerable, and well, what's that quote from Forrest Gump's Mom?

They sound like some of the people in my town. SMH.

linux.poet · 2025-07-11T13:41:09-0500

Welcome to CF!

Usually I find it easier to just start my day and weave in time to reconnect with God on my work breaks, but if a morning routine works for you, go for it! A Place of Quiet Rest by Nancy Leigh DeMoss was a really helpful book for me to understand what belongs in quiet time with God each day and how to push the depths of that relationship.

timewerx · 2025-07-11T13:32:22-0500

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SimplyMe · 2025-07-11T13:26:31-0500

rjs330 said:
Yes that's correct. Thats what laws do. If you dont like it, get the law changed. Just because youve been breaking the law for 30 years doesn't mean it no longer applies to you. Why wouldn't it?

If ive been stealing for 30 years and I finally get caught, I should just be let go?

Sorry, your analogy is terrible -- these people don't cross the border daily for 30 years. The analogy would be that you once shoplifted 30 years ago (a misdemeanor offense) or even that you sped maybe 20 miles over the speed limit 30 years ago; so today, because they suspect it was you that did it (with no solid evidence) a group of plainclothes and apparently often unmarked police come and take you away with no access to lawyers, your family, no access to the courts, and only putting it on a list that you were picked up a few days after you disappeared.

Pommer · 2025-07-11T13:17:37-0500

rjs330 said:
I dont believe thats how class action suits are supposed to work.

Several conservatives, including Justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas, warned against courts using class-action litigation to essentially supplant the kind of nationwide injunction the court had just shot down.

“Lax enforcement of the requirements” for certifying a class, Alito wrote in an opinion joined by Thomas, “would create a potentially significant loophole to today’s decision.”

Federal courts, he added, “should thus be vigilant against such potential abuses of these tools.”

Whether Laplante’s decision is an “abuse” or exactly what the Supreme Court had in mind will likely wind up back before the justices in short order.

A class action begins when lead plaintiffs file a complaint in court on behalf of a larger group. This document outlines the facts, names the defendant, defines the proposed class, and details the legal claims. This filing pauses the statute of limitations, or the legal deadline for filing a claim, for all potential class members.

Following the initial filing, the plaintiffs’ attorneys file a motion for class certification. The defendant has the opportunity to oppose this motion, leading to a hearing where both sides present arguments. The judge then issues an order either granting or denying certification.

If the class is certified, a formal notice is sent to all potential class members explaining the lawsuit and their rights. The case then proceeds through discovery, where both sides exchange evidence, and moves toward either a settlement or a trial.

You appear to be incorrect, but your post is a great argument, well done.

Postvieww · 2025-07-11T13:06:52-0500

Pommer said:
There’s an infamous atheist trope that goes “I just believe in one less god than you” when addressing a monotheist of any stripe.
So, “no”.

Actually there should be no favorable time given to allah on this form but I realize that is unrealistic.

mourningdove~ · 2025-07-11T12:57:56-0500

When life-changing events happen to us, there can sometimes be great sorrow and pain ...
but alongside all of that are also new possibilities for one's future, and those can be many.

It can be fun to 'think outside the box' abit ...
and consider things that maybe weren't seen as being 'within reach', before.

"Weeping my endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning."
~ Psalm 30:5

Fervent · 2025-07-11T12:53:25-0500

Rose_bud said:
I can see how that is especially given the value in pedagogical contexts. But I also prefer to engage with commentaries after forming my own thoughts, as it enables a more meaningful and critical interaction. It allows me to evaluate others insights more discerningly, and to appreciate where our perspectives converge and diverge and why.

You seem to be a more thoughtful individual than a lot of others, so I don't suspect you'd be susceptible to the kind of thinking that my concern focuses on. But when almost every commentary begins with the same introductory questions it is easy to get the impression that those introductory questions are more or less obligatory for exegetical work.

Rose_bud said:
I haven't read, this one by Scott McKnight, and will add to the list. But looking at the preview it seems he prefers reading the book from the application prior to the more doctrinal passages. An interesting approach.

His approach is literally to start at the end of Romans to identify the pastoral context that Paul was working in, and then see how that sheds light on the previous material. IMO it recovers an important thing that is missing from most exegetical treatments of Romans, since it leads to a resistance of the urge to treat it as a systematic theology and instead treats it as a pastoral letter.

Rose_bud said:
Presuppositions can be helpful, but yes important to be aware of them, as well as our biases.

To an extent, we can't avoid them. But responsible engagement requires we be aware of them to whatever extent we are able.

Rose_bud said:
I was thinking more the OT narratives in the general sense and, that the original audience is known-Israel, their stories, their history. I understand your concern about beginning with genre and reading it in, but I think knowing the genre can equally help to uncover the intended meaning and avoid misinterpretation. More than anything it's a lot more easier to identify as a whole and on first inspection.

Even knowing Israel was the original auddience, their history spans a long period and cultural shifts happened. And there are also issues of the evidence that it originated as oral traditions before being codified. As well as the possibility of imposing our own literary tropes from taking ancient literature to be closer kin to literary types we have today. I say this not to criticize approaching the text through genre per se, but to highlight that anachronistic readings are always knocking at our door.

Rose_bud said:
Yes, that does support that post is more plausible.

Rose_bud said:
There is always hope.

Agreed.

I appreciate you for your willingness to engage with me respectfully, and I hope I'm not coming across as overly pessimistic. My position is more that we need to be constantly reflecting on what might be distorting our understanding, especially how we might be imposing modern ideas on the texts. And when I say modern, I mean any theological ideas that have developed over Christian history with my tentative point of divergence being the 5th century with the shift from Greek to Latin in the Western church.

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-07-11T12:38:19-0500

Fr Dreher is mistaken.

Gnarwhal said:
Since you're well armed with articles and the history of the practice, I assume you've read Fr John Dreher's 1997 article objecting to the practice called The Dangers of Centering Prayer? He goes into the background of the Trappist monastery where the practice originated, noting that they hosted speakers and retreat leaders from various eastern faiths quite often which seemed to have a strong influence the way it did over Thomas Merton.

I find I agree with Fr Dreher if for no other reason than to err on the side of caution.

From the article:

"My hypothesis is that it is Satan’s strategy, in all these things, to strip away the physiological and psychological forces that, in our fallen state, are a fail safe protection for the human spirit. (This is a possible interpretation of Paul’s words in 2 Thessalonians 2:6–10 about the lawless one and the force that restrains him.) Thus, he can hope to capture the spirit of man worldwide and establish a kingdom of darkness."

The author's basic hypothesis is wrong. He assumes the our fallen physiological and psychological forces restrain Satan. How silly. Common sense and St John of the Cross, a doctor of the Church, tell us that rather than restraining Satan they are the materials through which he tempts and distorts us. That is why St John speaks of :

1. THE second positive evil that may come to the soul by means of the knowledge of the memory proceeds from the devil, who by this means obtains great influence over it. For he can continually bring it new forms, kinds of knowledge and reflections, by means whereof he can taint the soul with pride, avarice, wrath, envy, etc., and cause it unjust hatred, or vain love, and deceive it in many ways. And besides this, he is wont to leave impressions,496 and to implant them in the fancy, in such wise that those that are false appear true, and those that are true, false, And finally all the worst deceptions which are caused by the devil, and the evils that he brings to the soul, enter by way of knowledge and reflections of the memory, Thus if the memory enter into darkness with respect to them all, and be annihilated in its oblivion to them, it shuts the door altogether upon this evil which proceeds from the devil, and frees itself from all these things, which is a great blessing. For the devil has no power over the soul unless it be through the operations of its faculties, principally by means of knowledge, whereupon depend almost all the other operations of the other faculties. Wherefore, if the memory be annihilated with respect to them, the devil can do naught; for he finds no foothold, and without a foothold he is powerless.

2. I would that spiritual persons might clearly see how many kinds of harm are wrought by evil spirits in their souls by means of the memory, when they devote themselves frequently to making use of it, and how many kinds of sadness and affliction and vain and evil joys they have, both with respect to their thoughts about God, and also with respect to the things of the world; and how many impurities are left rooted in their spirits; and likewise how greatly they are distracted from the highest recollection, which consists in the fixing of the whole soul, according to its faculties, upon the one incomprehensible Good, and in withdrawing it from all things that can be apprehended, since these are not incomprehensible Good. This is a great good (although less good results from this emptiness than from the soul's fixing itself upon God), simply because it is the cause whereby the soul frees itself from any griefs and afflictions and sorrows, over and above the imperfections and sins from which it is freed.

Ascent of Mt Carmel
Book Three Chapter 4 p. 194-5

https://www.goodcatholicbooks.org/pdf/ascent-of-mt-carmel.pdf

lucypevensie · 2025-07-11T12:33:24-0500

For what?

lucypevensie · 2025-07-11T12:30:33-0500

Leave the boys home.

BOYS

Benaiah468 · 2025-07-11T12:21:35-0500

The teaching about the ten lost tribes is extremely important because it helps us understand our past and, more importantly, our future. This teaching can help us take a completely different perspective on how our own future will unfold. It is one of the teachings that is most neglected or not taught at all.

In all the elaborations, it is true that when the Israelites left Egypt, they were a large mixed people because a crowd of strangers went with them

And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. Lev 19:33

And one law applied to all

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Ex 12:49

The people took possession of the land, and the twelve tribes lived side by side until they became a united kingdom under King Saul. King David was involved in many wars, and under him Israel was a superpower on planet Earth, extending as far as the Euphrates. After that, the kingdom split into the northern kingdom of the ten tribes under the leadership of Ephraim and the southern kingdom, which included the tribe of Judah with Benjamin and the Levites.

From now on, the individual prophets distinguish between the house of Judah and the house of Israel. The house of Judah, the Jews, is not the house of Israel. This can also be seen in the fact that the two houses waged bitter wars against each other:

And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon. 1 Kgs 12:21

YHVH sent his prophets again and again to warn the two houses. When the Assyrians came to carry away the ten tribes, they went into exile. They disappeared from the scene, so to speak, and only the tribe of Judah remained:

Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. 2 Kgs 17:18

From then on, we only hear about the house of Judah for more than 100 years. They also strayed from YHVH's teachings. YHVH sent them the prophet Jeremiah in particular and warned them that YHVH would send judgment if they did not repent. Since they did not listen, they were then led into Babylonian captivity, from which they returned 70 years later under Ezra and Nehemiah. From then on, the house of Judah, the tribe of Benjamin, and the Levites were under foreign rule for a long time.

Since there was no further mention of the ten lost tribes and only of the tribe of Judah, it may be that it became accepted that only the Jews were involved. But just as the prophecies for the tribe of Judah were fulfilled in the past, the prophecies about the ten lost tribes will be fulfilled, and YHVH will gather them and bring them back.

YHVH has a plan for the ten lost tribes and great promises.

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living G-d. Hos 1:10

The prodigal son said in the parable:

And am no more worthy to be called thy son: Lk 15:19a

and the father replied:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. Lk 15:24a

YHVH brings back the lost. The older son, the house of Judah, on the other hand, was not lost, but was always with the Father. The prodigal son was dead in the eyes of the Father. Just like the ten tribes. They were also dead in the eyes of our heavenly Father:

Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord G-d; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord. Ezek 37:12-14

Living in exile means being in the grave and dead. YHVH opens this grave, gives his Holy Spirit, which brings life (keeping the teachings of the Torah), and leads back to the land of Israel.

Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their G-d, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days. Hos 3:5

The reunification of the two houses has not yet taken place, but it is prophesied:

Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Ezek 37:16-17

Who now has the birthright among the tribes?

Reuben? Judah, the tribe from which the Messiah comes?

Reuben was the firstborn, but he forfeited his birthright:

Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's ) 1 Chr 5:1-2

And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him. And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. Gen 48:13-14

Joseph wanted to correct this, but Israel said

I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. Gen 48:19b

It is often mistakenly claimed that the ten tribes were lost. However, their deportation or migration can be traced. And YHWH knows exactly who belongs to which tribe.

Some examples:

Under King David, Israel had risen to become a superpower:

And David went on, and grew great, and the Lord God of hosts was with him. And Hiram king of Tyre sent messengers to David, and cedar trees, and carpenters, and masons: and they built David an house. 2 Sam 5:10-11

King David formed an alliance with the Phoenicians, whose most important trading cities were Tyre and Sidon. Tyre's trade covered the entire Mediterranean basin.

They had large fleets of ships:

And Hiram sent in the navy his servants, shipmen that had knowledge of the sea, with the servants of Solomon. 1 Kgs 9:27

For the king's ships went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of Tarshish bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks. And king Solomon passed all the kings of the earth in riches and wisdom. And all the kings of the earth sought the presence of Solomon, 1 Chr 9:21-23a

Stevens M. Collins writes that these Phoenician-Israeli fleet ships could not, of course, take the majority of the Israeli population with them on their voyages, but when the Assyrians threatened them, they did take a significant number of Israelites with them. The fleets then took the Israelites from Palestine to the Phoenician colonies such as Carthage, Spain, and the British Isles. Those who did not escape in this way faced the Assyrian army.

They sailed as far as Tarshish in Spain. Interestingly, part of Galicia in northwestern Spain is called "Samarium" (Samaria). (Yair Davidy)

Celtic-Irish-Scottish legends tell of ancestors, the Hiberis (Hebrews?), who came from the Middle East, generally from Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt via Galicia in Spain.

The Phoenicians who colonized the English Isles were Israelites who gave the Hebrew word for "covenant", "b r t" (brit), as the name for the island. Britain.

The Phoenicians founded many colonies, including Carthage, whose original name in Hebrew was Kiriath-Hadeschath, meaning the "new town." The people of Carthage worshipped a g-d named el, but later they worshipped Baal-Hammon, like the ten northern tribes of Israel. The justice of the peace in Carthage was called "shofetim", which is the Hebrew word for judge, and the priests there were the "kohanim". Dr. Barry Fell reported in his book “Saga America” that coins from Carthage have been found in the American states of Alabama, Connecticut, New York, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Nevada.

The Assyrians recorded in their writings that 27,290 Israelites had been taken captive by them. But the number of Israelites was much greater than that. As mentioned above, many emigrated on Phoenician-Israeli ships to avoid being carried away by the Assyrians. Others emigrated northward. The well-known historian Josephus said, that there are

two tribes in Asia and Europe, subject to the Romans: while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now; and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.
S.: Antiquities of the Jews - Book XI Chapter 5

Josephus knew about the migration of the tribes and that they were an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.

This is exactly what Hosea said:

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; Hos 1:10a

These are just a few examples that show the path the Israelites took. This is a separate topic in itself, and there are study books on it

Yair Davidy: Lost Israelite Identity – The Hebraic Ancestry of the Celtic Races, The Tribes, Ephraim, the gentile children of Israel

or

Stephen M. Collins: The “Lost” Ten Tribes Of Israel…Found!

Landon Caeli · 2025-07-11T11:58:40-0500

Bradskii said:
I don't know why you quoted me. What you said had nothing to do with what I posted.

You can run, but you can't hide from me, Mr. Bradskii.

smoking-man-serious-exit-cancerman-smokingman-enigmatic-close.gif

(JK)

Clare73 · 2025-07-11T11:56:15-0500

Michie said:
New Testament scholar N.T. Wright recently pushed back on the assumption that Jesus and the apostle Paul expected the world to end within a generation, saying their primary focus was the coming destruction of Jerusalem, not the final return of Christ.
“I think that Paul was aware, like all early Christians, because Jesus had said so, that Jerusalem would be destroyed within a generation of Jesus’ own time,” Wright said during a recent episode of his “Ask N.T. Wright Anything” podcast.
“That’s a major theme in Matthew, Mark and Luke. It’s hinted at elsewhere. And I think it’s hinted at, for instance, in the Thessalonian correspondence in Paul and also in First Corinthians Seven, when he talks about the appointed time being constrained.”

Jesus said the kingdom
has come (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), and
is invisible, within (Lk 17:20-21) the hearts where he rules and reigns.

The Messianic kingdom of time is now (Dan 2:44,* Eph 2:6, 1 Pe 2:5, 9)
we are seated with Christ in the heavenly realms now (Eph 2:6).
The parables of Jesus consistently portray his kingdom as spiritual (of heaven) and
as here and now (Mt 13:24, 31, 33, 44, 45, 47, 18:23, 20:1, Mk 4:26).
The future kingdom is the eternal kingdom, in the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteosness (2 Pe 3:13, Mt 5:5, 22:2, 25:1, Ro 4:13, Isa 66:17ff, 66:22, Rev 21:1-4, no death).

But the kingdom of time is now, for we are now reigning with Christ (Eph 2:6) in his kingdom (Lk 22:69, Eph 1:19-22, Mk 14:62, 16:19, Ro 8:34, 1 Co 15:25, Col 3:1, Heb 1:3, 8:1, 10:12-13, 12:2, 1 Pe 3:22, Rev 1:6, Ps 2:6 w/Heb 12:22).
___________________

*"in the time of those kings;" i.e., the Roman empire (Da 2:40-43), which conquered the Geek empire (Da 2:39, 8:21) -- the Messianic kingdom was set up during the past Roman empire, at the first coming of Christ (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20).

Say it aint so · 2025-07-11T11:31:56-0500

essentialsaltes said:
Maybe not such a great idea after all. Who knew?

Trump administration scraps plan to abolish FEMA, Washington Post reports
U.S. President Donald Trump's administration has backed away from abolishing the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Washington Post reported on Friday, ahead of the president's visit to flood-hit Texas.

No official action was being taken to wind down FEMA, and changes in the agency would probably amount to a "rebranding" that would emphasize state leaders' roles in disaster response, the Washington Post reported, citing a senior White House official.

The Texas floods, the first major deadly disaster since Trump took office in January vowing to gut or abolish FEMA, were a stark reminder of the extent to which states lean on the agency during a crisis.

Oh no. They'll go through the motions and once this story dies down and the over 100 still missing and presumed dead of found, kill FEMA will be back on. Now if this event was in California, there would be no temporary reverse.

Light of the East · 2025-07-11T11:12:11-0500

Hoping2 said:
It sure can be easy, but with the gift of the Holy Ghost, that is not going to happen.

That's quite funny because every person who would disagree with you would appeal to the Holy Spirit as leading them. I find it humorous, in a very sad way, to see how many different Protestant denominations and/or people all claim that the Holy Spirit is leading them into all truth, and yet they don't agree on many issues. Is the Holy Spirit that schizophrenic, or are they deceived? I vote for the latter.

Hoping2 said:
So Paul was deluding us with his hopes in 1 Cor 15:34 ?
Was Jesus deceived when He commanded..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Was Peter deceived when he wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Was John deceived when he wrote..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:4-9)
And...“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)

It is cults who take verses out of context and make a whole religion out of what they believe from those verses.

If we were to never sin again, there would be no need for priests and the Sacrament of Confession.

Hoping2 said:
The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph. 3:21), has no fasting season.

This shows that you have no idea what the Church is, its history, or where it is to be found. Here is some information for you:
Fasting in the Orthodox Church has deep historical roots, stemming from Jewish traditions and further shaped by early Christian ascetics and the Church's developing liturgical structure. It is a practice of abstaining from certain foods and sometimes other activities for spiritual reasons, primarily to cultivate closer communion with God, practice self-discipline, and prepare for major feasts.

Here's a more detailed look at the history:
1. Jewish Roots and Early Christian Practice:

The Old Testament provides numerous examples of fasting, both individual and communal, often associated with mourning, repentance, and times of need.
Jesus himself fasted for forty days in the desert, and he taught his disciples about fasting, emphasizing sincerity and humility. (NOTE: We are called to be like Jesus, to emulate Him in our lives as much as possible as we grow into His likeness. Fasting is part of that.)
Early Christians adopted the practice, with the Didache (a first-century text) mentioning fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays, a practice that continues in the Orthodox Church. (The Orthodox Church is the Church. All other denominations and sects are outside the Church which Jesus established upon the Apostles. Do you remember what Jesus said in regard to His Body, the Church? He said that if a man will not hear the Church, let him be as a pagan to you.)
Wednesday was chosen to commemorate Judas's betrayal, and Friday to commemorate the crucifixion.

2. Development of Fasting Periods:

Over time, the Church formalized fasting periods, such as Great Lent (before Pascha/Easter), the Nativity Fast (Advent), the Apostles' Fast, and the Dormition Fast.
These periods, often coinciding with significant events or feasts, provide structured times for spiritual preparation and growth.
Great Lent, the most prominent of these, is a 40-day fast (plus Holy Week) preceding Pascha, mirroring Christ's time in the wilderness.
The length and intensity of fasting vary depending on the season and the specific fast.

3. Ascetic Influence and Monastic Practices:

Ascetics, particularly the Desert Fathers, played a significant role in shaping fasting practices.
For them, fasting was not just about food but a means of subduing passions, purifying the soul, and drawing closer to God.
Monastic traditions further developed fasting rules and practices, which eventually influenced the wider Church.

4. Key Aspects of Orthodox Fasting:

Food Restrictions:
Typically, Orthodox fasting involves abstaining from meat, dairy products, and (in some cases) fish and olive oil.
Spiritual Discipline:
Fasting is seen as a way to cultivate self-control, humility, and a deeper connection with God.
Preparation for Feasts:
Fasting is a way to prepare both physically and spiritually for major feasts, particularly Pascha.
Community Practice:
Fasting is often done as a community, fostering mutual support and shared spiritual growth.

Hoping2 said:
Show any place where Jesus or His apostles commanded all night prayer vigils.

As stated before, Christ is our pattern. He went and prayed all night. If we are called to such a life, we should do it.

Hoping2 said:
Are all those things what you do ?

No. I try to do them. I fail, I confess, and I continue to try. Some of them I am not called to do, such as the monastic life, all-night prayer vigils, and extreme fasting. I attempt the regular fasts of the Church.

Hoping2 said:
Don't you realize that you are just condemning yourself ?

Obeying the dictates of the Church which Christ gave to the apostles is hardly a way to condemn one's self. Obedience is one of the primary ways in which we show love to Christ, and obeying His Church is prime.

Hoping2 said:
I thank God He never commanded such things of men.

God speaks through His Church. He does not speak outside the Church, hence, He has never given mankind things such as Calvinism, the Baptist doctrines, or any of the thousands of other man-made sects and religions that call themselves Christian. The fullness of the Christian faith is found in obedience to Christ through His Church and the authority which He vested in the leaders of the Church.

Hoping2 said:
His commands are fulfilled in this...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Anything else is just the doctrines of men.

You love God by obeying His Church and His commandments. Love is not feeling. It is action. Doing the works which He gives to us show Him our love for Him. The same is true for men. Love acts in ways that show love to others - feeding the hungry, caring for the poor, praying for the dead. Love is not a feeling nor good thoughts. Love works.

Hoping2 said:
I've never heard of Him. But then again, the saint are not desirous of vain glory.What would he say to your efforts to verify your POV of a church that does not teach it is possible to live without sin ?

St. Paisios's teachings on sin are rooted in the Orthodox Christian tradition and emphasize the importance of repentance, prayer, and humility in overcoming sin and finding healing in God's love. You should watch this video about him.

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