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fhansen · 2025-11-14T23:23:47-0600

Dikaioumenoi said:
It's not an issue of my understanding. The issue is you're wanting to force me to argue something I haven't argued. Let's make this very simple.

You have said that the drawing of the Father (in John 6:44) can fail, correct?

The drawing of the Father (in John 6:44) makes salvation possible, correct? It enables one to come to Christ.

How is it possible, then, for one to come to Christ, if the Father's act of enabling them, can fail? You keep saying "God provides the ability to come." That contradicts your earlier argument that God's provision of that ability can fail.

We're not talking about whether or not the drawing is effectual in producing faith. As I have repeatedly pointed out to you, my argument that it is has nothing to do with the meaning of ἑλκύω itself. We were talking about the meaning of ἑλκύω. You argued that ἑλκύω in John 6:44 can fail. Yet does not ἑλκύω refer to God's provision of the ability to come? How then is it possible to come, if God's attempt to provide the ability can fail?

I'm not arguing for my point of view right now; I'm critiquing the consistency of yours. I'm trying to show you ἑλκύω means a decisive movement from one position (inability) to another (ability). That does not mean that the movement in view is necessarily from unbelief to irresistible faith. The meaning of ἑλκύω is not the basis of that argument. That is a different argument. What I am focused on right now is trying to show you that your attempt to soften the definition of ἑλκύω does not aid your point of view, nor does it challenge mine.

I see. You don’t even believe what you’re saying here yourself. No alternative makes any sense. It’s not His attempt to provide the possibility, BTW; He really does provide it.

GodDoesListen55 · 2025-11-14T23:00:05-0600

Dale · 2025-11-14T22:37:41-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
Well, if it's a loaded question being asked, why not give a loaded answer? lol

If you want to be a major player in US politics, you gotta kiss someone's rear-end and promise favors in return for campaign donations.

Not sure why that's controversial to point out.

Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?

Whoops...I missed the queue. Sorry about that. I'll fall in line and be a good boy.

Allow me to bend a knee and worship at the alter of Philosophy 101 professors:
Orange man bad... He's orange and bad and a man who's also orange and a man who's bad and orange and bad...not to mention a man and bad who's also orange...not to mention racist transphobic and bad, please tax me at 40%.

Phew, that was close...

I almost fell into the grips of the KKK until someone set me on the right path and made me see the light, and convinced that Trump is the worst human in the history of humans who's uniquely bad in every way.

The problem is, when you say that all politicians are corrupt you just encourage politicians to live down to their reputation.

camille70 · 2025-11-14T22:26:50-0600

Trump Organization sought to bring in nearly 200 workers on visas in 2025

Trump Organization sought to bring in nearly 200 workers on visas in 2025

President’s family business requested at least 184 foreign workers for Mar-a-Lago, Virginia winery and two golf clubs

www.theguardian.com

President’s family business requested at least 184 foreign workers for Mar-a-Lago, Virginia winery and two golf clubs

---

The Trump Organization sought to bring in at least 184 foreign workers in 2025 for temporary positions at Mar-a-Lago, two golf clubs and a Virginia winery through H-2A and H-2B visas, according to data from the Department of Labor.

The company’s visa requests have risen steadily in recent years, from 121 in 2021 to a record 184 in 2025.

During Trump’s five years in office, the Trump Organization filed to bring in at least 566 foreign workers.

Michie · 2025-11-14T22:17:45-0600

Lady Bug said:
Wow I hadn't seen that one before. Thank you so much. There are times where I am almost too tired to pray the regular routine I have, and I ask myself if I have only one prayer to say on any given day, due to being too tired, what would it be.

Listen to the contemporary version of it sung below the prayer. I usually recite it every morning and add my prayer intentions to it. But when I’m just so frazzled can’t make a good attempt at it without my mind going all over the place, I’ll pray the version in song. It helps relieve my anxiety as well.

camille70 · 2025-11-14T22:14:23-0600

2 mos ago

U.S. sees highest large-company bankruptcies in 15 years with 446 filings

MSN

Several familiar American brands from the 1990s and 2000s are among those that have collapsed in 2025. Retailers such as Forever 21, Joann’s, Party City, and Claire’s, along with pharmacy chain Rite Aid, have all filed for bankruptcy this year.

‐-----

Today

US Corporate Bankruptcies Set to Hit 15-Year High Amid Credit Jitters, S&P Data Shows

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2025-11-13/us-corporate-bankruptcies-set-to-hit-15-year-high-amid-credit-jitters-s-p-data-shows

Total bankruptcy filings reached 655 this year through October, compared with 687 for all of 2024. October alone accounted for 68 filings, following 76 in August — the highest monthly count since at least 2020.

ChubbyCherub · 2025-11-14T22:12:28-0600

I would say that I'm a mixture of both.

Fundamentalists are very literal in the way that they read and practice the Bible and, yes, many things would be 'forbidden' that are worldly including pop music, certain movies, certain ways of dress, drinking alcohol and/or drinking to excess, piercings, make up, playing cards, rolling dice etc.

Evangelism is also very biblical, as compared to other denominations, but are very heavily focused (IMO) in the way the bible can be practiced in the modern life. The above activities would not be encouraged if they distract from God but I don't see them as heavily discouraged and make up, piercings etc are definitely much more accepted.

I prefer Fundamentalism, because that is how I was raised and I do believe it is biblical, but it is not widely practiced locally so I am currently part of a non-denomination church which is sola scriptura in so much as the mission of Christians, the message of Jesus etc.

Michie · 2025-11-14T22:04:17-0600

partinobodycular said:
Even considering the idol status that human artists can attain?

Yep. It’s the same with tech or anything. Been going in since the beginning.

Michie · 2025-11-14T21:46:06-0600

Grotesques on churches are purely decorative carvings, often depicting monstrous or whimsical figures, that serve a symbolic purpose of warding off evil and serving as a visual reminder of the separation between the profane outside and the sacred inside.

RileyG · 2025-11-14T21:35:42-0600

concretecamper said:
My observation is that Priests today are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more masculine than those 40-50 years ago

Thanks be to God!

Hans Blaster · 2025-11-14T21:21:40-0600

With the shutdown over, the web page maintainers at HVO are back on the job and can update with data collected by the scientists during the last 3 epsiodes:

Photo & Video Chronology — November 13, 2025 — Kīlauea summit eruption episodes 34-36

The summit eruption of Kīlauea continues, with 36 episodes of lava fountaining since the eruption began on December 23, 2024. Within the past month and a half, fountaining episodes 34, 35, and 36 occurred at the summit of Kīlauea.

www.usgs.gov

From episode 35, my favorite from the set, taken Oct 18

There are a bunch of images of fountains, digging instruments from under the tephra, the tephra hill, but this one from Sunday spoke to me:

There is a separation between the end of the road where it falls into the crater and the fountains, but it looks like they are walking towards a gap in lava flow. (The broken road is from Summer 2018.)

The three episodes were:

34: October 1, 6 hours, 375 m
35: October 17, 7.5 hours, 450 m (highest in 40 years)
36: November 9, 5 hours, 375 m

Fervent · 2025-11-14T21:00:24-0600

Mark Quayle said:
I noticed you relented from citing examples.

We've been through it enough that I see no point in going around again and again. It's no strawman I'm 'beating up" on, it's the capricious theological monster Calvinists prop up with their word games about compatibilist "free will" that's not really free will and God who is wrathful with human beings who are just carrying out what He has supposedly decreed them to do in the first place.

concretecamper · 2025-11-14T20:35:37-0600

concretecamper · 2025-11-14T20:28:06-0600

"Illegal immigrants"

RileyG · 2025-11-14T20:19:41-0600

seeking.IAM said:
I prefer not to say denomination because it is no indictment of them. It could happen any number of places in a shrinking congregation. The setting was a city church in a large city's once thriving neighborhood that had gone seriously downhill and was then infested with prostitution, drugs, and all that comes with it. Most of the former members had moved out and moved on - probably for good reason - all save the diehards who refused to give up. It was sad in one way, yet a few were still doing church in the midst of squalor. So, there was that. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Ahhhh, gotcha!

ARBITER01 · 2025-11-14T20:17:25-0600

Delvianna said:
People use this phrase a lot when there are arguments but for the most part, it looks like people are using it incorrectly, so I thought I'd start off this discussion by expounding on what is, and isn't "dividing the body of Christ".

1. First, let's define the word "dividing".
Dividing means to separate. I mean, that's as plain as it can get lol. If you divide an apple in half, you are cutting into two pieces. It is no longer whole, it is divided.

2. Now, what is the body of Christ?
It's a metaphor used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 to describe the Church as a whole. All believers in Jesus, united under one head of leadership. We can get more nuanced with this but let's just leave it as, anyone who follows Christ in faith. So regardless of denomination, race, or background.

3. Dividing the Body of Christ
So instead of unity (one body) all following Christ, you have division. Examples of this are:

A) Breaking unity over non-essentials like: "I follow Paul" or "I follow Apollos" (1 Corinthians 3:4).

B) Promoting False Doctrine (Galatians 5:7-10, Romans 16:17, 1 Corinthians 1:10)

Gossip or slander (Proverbs 6:16-19, Proverbs 16:28, 2 Corinthians 12:20) But there is a difference between "quarreling" and debate. The motive for quarreling is often pride (James 4:1) and can be over arguments that are "foolish" in nature (Titus 3:9) because the outcome ruins "good hearers" (2 Timothy 2:14 and 2 Timothy 2:23). The Motive for a debate is restoration by correction which can have a fruitful outcome when someone is corrected.

4. So if promoting false doctrine is considered dividing the body, what is NOT dividing the body?

Rebuke: Correcting a person in error by holding them accountable, correcting behavior and correcting scripture. (Matthew 18:15, Luke 17:3, 2 Timothy 4:2, 1 Timothy 5:20, Titus 1:13)

If someone is preaching something false, that's already divided, but debating someone or even getting into a heated debate, isn't dividing, it's actually an attempt at becoming whole again where both people can agree. THAT is unity. So I think people need to be careful that just because 2 people are having an argument/debate, doesn't necessarily mean division, when scripturally speaking its a step towards unity (depending on context of course).

Denominations are already scripturally divided and we should duke it out more often so we can come together in unity of belief instead of attempting to pacify the debate with a chastisement of "dividing the body of Christ" which is only preventing us from actually being whole and keeping us divided with "you interpret it this way, I interpret it this way" and leaving it in that divided state. That's not helping, thats encouraging continued true division.

So within this context, can we stop throwing that phrase around and continue debating so we can become a unified front instead of a fractured one?

Now, within that spirit, feel free to debate me.

1Co 12:13 For by one spirit we are all immersed into one body.....

The universal blood bought body of Christ is not divided. It might have differing levels of maturity, but that is by design.

joymercy · 2025-11-14T20:00:17-0600

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rockytopva · 2025-11-14T19:50:33-0600

The highlight of the mission was the booster catch (see short 90 second video). It looked like they were going to miss the droneship by a full 50 yards. But then corrected themselves for a successful landing right on the middle of the landing platform. It looked like welding sparks at the very end securing themselves to the platform.
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BelieveItOarKnot · 2025-11-14T19:43:33-0600

Clare73 said:
The natures of divine life, angelic life and human life are not the same.

When discussing "eternal life" and "immortal life" they are technically identical

Your claim differentiated these states and your response didn't seem to pick up on the logic flaw

Tom D · 2025-11-14T19:43:23-0600

peaceful-forest said:
This might sound crazy or stupid, but I actually used to have time to do my job accurately and without the anxiety I experience now. Now, it's all about "rush, rush, rush", "meet your goal", "money, money, money". Our work is closely monitored now. I (and others) actually have to calculate when to go to the bathroom so we're not accused of taking too long on a task. Have you ever heard of such a thing happening in the workplace? This is something you would expect in a Communist country.

I've desired to do something with Linux for some time. I don't know how I would go about that. When I look for Linux jobs, they want knowledgeable people with schooling. I do not ever want to go back to college again. American colleges are scams and you can't do anything with your degree. I've tried twice to get a good job with college, it doesn't work.

If I could make money off of my writing, I would do it.

Don't resign yet, think twice before you do so, considering that the economy is not in good shape.

Did you mean you are so tightly monitored that even your bathroom times are recorded?

Writing? That might be a good idea, I wish I could write well (but I don't).

Tigger Boy · 2025-11-14T19:26:40-0600

Hentenza said:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. | New American Standard Bible

Hentenza said:
This is about as clear as it gets. The body returns to dust and to the earth while the spirit (soul) returns to God. You can’t deny the plain reading.

Hentenza you are so right, in that the texts is very clear. However, most of christianity get it wrong including you, sorry. I had too, early in my christian walk. Why are so many deceived on this issue, because most have been mislead from early childhood before they were old enough to study their bibles. Mislead by parents and pastors giving eulogies at funerals.

In your above statement Hentenza, after the word spirit, you insert the word soul, because you and most others think spirit is synonymous with soul. I have been trying to show you it is not, which is not easy when someone gets settled on a belief. So lets look at a few more texts for clarity on what this spirit actually is.

"The body without the spirit is dead" (James 2:26)
"The spirit of God is in my nostrils" (Job 23:3)
"The Lord formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul' (Gen 2:7)

It is not the word "soul" that is synonymous with spirit, but rather the phrase "breath of life", according to the bible.

And as I have been sharing with you in past post, a "soul" is the combination of two elements, body + breath of life. Thus a soul is a living individual. Gods Word teaches that we are souls--not that we have souls. Therefore, upon death, a living individual/souls body returns to the earth and the spirit/breath of life returns to God, and the individual/soul ceases to exsist in life and sleeps in the first death until they are called to life again in either the first of second resurrection.

This teaching is affirmed in (Ecc.9:5,6,10; Psalm 115:17)"The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing...", "The dead do not praise the Lord"

"For David did not acend into the heaven" (Acts 2:29,34)

"Only God is immortal" (1 timothy 6:15,16) The concept of an undying immortal soul is not found in the bible, which teaches that that souls are subject to death.

Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead, sleep in (Jn.11:11-14)

I have brought you and all others who may read this thread to a cross road in your undrerstanding of a soul. Will you continue on the broad road you have been traveling or will you take the less travel road through the narrow gate? Your faith in God's Word or lack thereof, will determine your path.

Blessings

Robban · 2025-11-14T19:17:24-0600

jonojim1337 said:
From Wikipedia:

“No excavations are allowed on the Temple Mount, and no positively identified remains of the destroyed temple have been found.”

May I suggest to you the First temple was never in Palestine.

That is not what the thread is about, it is about Pharisees.

And I myself never use wiki.

Ain't Zwinglian · 2025-11-14T19:00:53-0600

Valletta said:
thousands of denominations

Typical go-to argument. How many thousands? Tens of? Hundreds of? And where is this listing? And is this listing only believed by whom?

LoricaLady · 2025-11-14T18:44:05-0600

Get Outlook for iOS

For partners in Indonesia.

(Sorry for the strange formatting that appeared when I copied from email and do not know how to change.)

Our partner in Indonesia trains and equips Christian leaders who are from a Muslim background, giving them a biblical understanding of mission and preparing them to reach out in areas where they may face persecution for the gospel.

Pray that God will bless and protect our partner; particularly for strength to manage the heavy responsibilities carried on a daily basis.

Pray for recent graduates from the mission training as they return to their ministry locations: that the Lord will give them boldness as well as discernment in sharing Christ with those around them. Many have already experienced persecution and hardship.

Pray for Indonesia, a hugely populated country, which faces many on-going challenges. Pray for the millions of Indonesians who live in spiritual darkness, and who have never heard the gospel.

Pray for Christians from a Muslim background, who often face rejection and persecution from their communities. At the same time, they can also find it difficult to fit into the existing Christian culture and churches.

Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world and accounts for 13% of all Muslims globally.

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Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. | New American Standard Bible