• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Can you imagine love in heaven?

I can imagine love in Heaven and I can also imagine love on Earth. The pain and suffering in this world aren't necessarily constant. At least from an individual perspective. Regarding humanity as a whole, however, there is usually somebody suffering somewhere. Often, a great number of people. It is harder for me to envision an entire population free of suffering, but if individuals and smaller groups of people can be at peace here and now then it should be possible for larger groups as well.

On Earth as it is in Heaven. I believe in an afterlife, but even if one doesn't believe in heaven as a place they can strive to make Earth more Heavenly.


What kind of love do you believe you will be able to experience in heaven? What are the scenarios?
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Erika Kirk Delivers Powerful National Address, Says Movement Will Not Die

But, I am sure that nothing a conservative says will change your mind.
In my case, generally not. My views have been developed over decades so it's not likely that someone with a different opinion is going to change my mind during any given discussion, however long it lasts. I've argued my positions over very many years indeed and I've heard all the usual arguments against them.

That said, there are those on the right who are adept at putting their views forward (some in this forum). And the discussions are interesting for that reason. I have no problem is saying that any given person has excellent, coherent and well thought out and well presented arguments. Kirk was not one of those people.

I've just watched him in a talk with Bill Maher. Yeah, he's not exactly a Titan in the area of debates. In my opinion, not completely hopeless, but I wouldn't pick him for my team. But it was over an hour and Kirk should have been able to put his views forward and get Maher on the back foot. Politically and theologically. Any decent debater could have run rings around him. But he was honestly hopeless. I swear that I could have played the Devil's Advocate and done a better job on both subjects without any prep whatsoever.

The more I watch of him, the more I read about him, the more I watch him talk, the more puzzled I am that he had any substantial following at all.
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Trump joint session speech: "So to our farmers, have a lot of fun. I love you too. I love you too."

Trump administration considering economic aid for farmers: Agriculture secretary

“We are working with our colleagues in Congress and closely monitoring markets daily to evaluate the amount of additional assistance that might be needed this fall,” Rollins said at a meeting of the National Association of State Departments of Agriculture in Rogers, Ark.

[There they go again... throwing money at a problem they created themselves.]

[The comments] come as farmers feel the impacts of the administration’s cuts to U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) programs. In March, the agency cutmore than $1 billion in funding for schools and food banks to purchase goods from local farms and ranches.

[See, we could give them $1 billion of taxpayer money in exchange for useful products, instead of giving them $1 billion of taxpayer money for nothing. I'm not sure if the little nippers and poor people like to gnaw soybeans, but beggars can't be choosers.]
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Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

Troops in DC encounter few crises, but plenty of walking and yard work

For nearly a month, Guard members hailing from D.C., Louisiana, West Virginia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Tennessee, Ohio, South Dakota and Georgia have donned their Army fatigues to help combat what President Donald Trump’s administration has called “intolerable risks” to federal government functions in Washington.

More than a dozen Guard troops who spoke to Military Times on the condition of anonymity in recent days view their current deployment as “part of the job” but say they simply haven’t seen “emergency” levels of crime since being assigned to the D.C. mission.

“Have I seen [an emergency]? I’d better not answer that,” one Guard member said, shaking his head. “Besides people falling off the steps, not really.”

Some troops walking around the nation’s capital said they feel like an experiment, a “test force” to see if this type of deployment could be replicated elsewhere.

[in re beautification] A National Park Service official told Military Times on Thursday the service had lost between 130 and 180 national capital region employees, in addition to manpower loss due to the administration’s freeze on maintenance contracts.

“There is this little bit of irony about the fact that the administration did all these cuts, and then went to the buyouts, and now the National Guard started kind of making up for that,” said the official.

Cutting 130 to 180 employees from the D.C. parks would have likely saved millions of dollars for American taxpayers, but the savings amount to a fraction of what the Guard deployment will end up costing over the course of multiple months.
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Revelation 12 walk through

That's how it comes across.
Nowhere in the Scriptures do we see the word "two Israels."
That comes across as two different Israels. One that you call "Israel proper". The basis of being part of that Israel is only on one's DNA. And the other you call "True Israel" which consists only of "faithful Jews". You can say it's one Israel within another or a subset, but you are still coming across as if you are referring to two different Israels. One that's based on nationality and faith and one that's based on nationality only.
Not at all. There is one group of Christians in our church. Some are faithful, and some are not. This does not make our church "two churches."

Israel is one nation. Some are faithful, and some are not. The fact that only some are faithful does not make them "two Israels" or "two nations." You are arguing something that does not follow or is irrational, to fit your theology.
So, in the case of the Jews, why not just call them either faithful or unfaithful instead of referring to "Natural Israel" and "True (or Faithful) Israel"?
I've had to explain to you that the fact that there is a "true Israel" does not mean there is a "2nd Israel."
Why talk of them as a separate entity that you call "Faithful Israel" when you only believe in one Israel and not two Israels?
I'm not talking about them as a "separate entity." Rather, I'm speaking of a single entity with one group being faithful and one group being unfaithful. The fact I group them as such is not creating separate "entities."
God's people are only those who have faith.
That isn't true. God called Israel to have faith even before they fully had it--some didn't get it at all. Those who proved to be faithless were cut off.

But the fact they were "Israel" before they were cut off indicates that they were not named Israel strictly because they had faith initially. The entire *nation* was called Israel, and the entire nation was called to have faith.

They were Israel before they had yet proved whether they would be faithful or not. Their initial faithfulness was simply the choice to leave Egypt together to find God's Law on the mountain.

Many Jews today are in the same position of wanting to know what God wants of their nation. They have chosen to gather together with other Jews, viewing their elect culture to be worth gathering with.

They should be properly called "Israel," regardless of whether they are Christians. That is the normal definition of "Israel."
Don't make something simple into something complicated. This doesn't mean that those who do not have faith right now can never come to have faith and become part of God's people, of course. But, this is very simple. God's people are those who have faith. If you don't have faith, you're not a child of God.
Don't agree. Israel is "Israel" before they have Christian faith. That has always been true.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Being "children" is different from being "Israel."
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Ex Fox News host Jeanine Pirro confirmed as DC US Attorney

Eight? Though this appears to be the government itself deciding it was wrong.

D.C. Man Accused Of Spitting At National Guard Sees Felony Case Dismissed

The judge offered a rebuke of Jeanine Pirro’s office: “The way this is supposed to work is the U.S. Attorney’s Office does its due diligence.”

During a hearing in federal court Tuesday, Assistant U.S. Attorney Caelainn Carney said the government moved to withdraw the felony charge against Scott Pichon after reviewing the evidence in the case. Carney had filed a motion last week saying dismissing the matter would be “in the interests of justice.”

Magistrate Judge Matthew J. Sharbaugh seemed visibly annoyed during the Tuesday hearing, saying the U.S. Attorney’s Office had been wasting the court’s time with felony charges that went nowhere. He said the office should have reviewed the evidence closely before bringing such a serious charge.

FELONY FIRST; REVIEW EVIDENCE SECOND!
Can she break the record? Several weeks ago I read that the last year they have available data on this, there were 9 cases no-billed in a single (fiscal) year. I think she can match it in the last 2 weeks of FY25. (That 9 cases in 1 FY was for all 94 districts in the federal court system.)
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This is the scariest verse in the bible for believers

I have been doing evangelism, both online and off, since I accepted the Gospel as a child. I was that kid in public school who would confront her friends with the Gospel and the claims of Christ, and yes, I would do the science class debates and get rebuked by my teachers lol. However, God has never given me the privilege of watching someone accept the Gospel. I still do it, and pray for God to correct my errors if I’m driving people away from the truth by accident.

I think I suffer from lack of knowledge more than anything these days and so I struggle with some of the debate points that are raised against me. Most of my evangelism encounters inspire me to improve something, whether it’s my knowledge of science or knowledge of political movements or knowledge of theology. (I probably have the spiritual gift of knowledge, actually, instead of evangelism. :p Though I have to give the caveat that my congregation understands the spiritual gifts a bit differently than your denomination might, so I have to be careful with that talking here. I think all giftings evangelise, but they do so differently.)

These days, I think my best witness is my story, rather my lackluster apologetics. The secular prognosis for CPTSD is grim: a cycle of abusive relationships, prison, and suicide. By the power of the Holy Spirit, I have been able to subdue my body so that I don’t have any of those things anymore. Without God, I wouldn’t be alive today. I’m still thinking, but I believe that this story needs to be told in some form (as a website series and/or memoir) and pushed out there for others to see. That’s probably where I will concentrate my ineffective evangelism efforts in the near future.
You don't have to have a lot of knowledge to evangelize. Practice. Study the Romans Road. Look up the wordless book...it's a old and time-tested method that is mainly for children but I think it works fine for adults. There is also Share Jesus Without Fear. I would put as many tools in the toolbox to make you more comfortable and just go practice in the real world. Once you get comfortable with that move toward apologetics so you can answer some of the common objections.
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Christians - May I have your attention for a moment?

From my observation, signs and wonders often lends itself to expressions of ego and a need to be heard and followed. That’s what I’ve witnessed thus far and why I’m careful.
Yes, it is possible for me to try to get attention, by using some thing which gets attention.

Money is something that can be used to get approval and power and attention.

The disciples tried to use Jesus to make them great.

So, we need to know how to use signs, if there are any, and how to use money, and how to relate with Jesus so we aren't trying to use Him as our authority and influence to get what we want.
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Is Wikipedia a 'reliable source' for Martin Luther?

Thank you for the interest!

I'm not an expert on the man and life of Luther, and I've admittedly only skimmed through the article, but it seems good to me. Maybe some question marks around the doctrine of soul sleep and his later writings.

I can also recommend the overview as found in the Christian Cyclopaedia published by the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS):

Hope that helps!

God bless!
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Trump suggests he’ll release Jeffrey Epstein ‘client list’ if elected: ‘I’d have no problem with it’

Kash Patel unloads all blame for botched Epstein probe onto ex-Trump official

“I know that there's a lot of talk about Epstein, and I'm here to testify that the original sin in the Epstein case was the way it was initially brought by Mr. [Alexander] Acosta back in 2006,” Patel said, testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The same Alexander Acosta that Trump rewarded with a cabinet position? That Alexander Acosta? Maybe it was a wise move; Acosta's sweetheart deal for Epstein meant a lot of things wouldn't become public.
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And one more scandal developing

The voters have given their verdict on the accusations against Trump.
Well. 12 of them did. Guilty. Not one charge. Dozens of them. And as you see, Mueller didn't indict him, only because the policy of the Justice Department is to not indict a sitting president.
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The Conjunction of Opposites

Yes, in the beginning of life in the flesh for mankind this is true.

Satan has no flesh body. It's an adverse antiChrist spirit
Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman], and between thy seed and her Seed; It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.

But the verses in Ezekiel, Isaiah, Job, etc before that make it clear he was perfect -without blemish until iniquity was found in him.
Obviously not perfect by the time of the garden event.
And I see you continue to cherry pick certain verses leaving out the rest of the parable. Only a portion had the seed stolen from them. Some of it fell on good ground therefore not stolen.
I've always said as Jesus taught us, that man shall live by every word of God. Not just the ones we like, which is what you're doing. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3
No, that is not my claim. Only that at the present time it's much easier for mature Christians to resist his spirit When he's here disguised as that angel of light that's when we need to have the full gospel armor on and in place if one is here during that time period.
Point being the tempter and his own operate within mankind.
You need to know the difference between living in sin/habitual sin and missing the mark/falling short. No one is without sin but there is a difference.
You're merely looking at the external act of sin. IF the tempter operates within, then the worst sinner who has been involved within inserting that temptation, and it really doesn't matter much from that observation. Every sin is technically within, because of that bad actor, not because of your external act of sin, or lack thereof.

You can subscribe to the fantasy that your sin is better than the other people's because it's not overt, but your less than overt sin really has nothing to do with sin and Satan, if you follow the logic.

Satan isn't any less the sinner in anyone.
Case in point, you pointed out 1st John 3:8 but fail to see verse 7 for what it is and we can tie both together so we can see the difference.

I John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous."
I don't ascribe any sin to the person, just so you know, per Paul, 2 Cor. 5:19

That does NOT mean sin's are not counted. They are counted against devils.
I John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil."

John is making the distinction but you cannot.
You only want one side of the equation but not the other is all. Why would you have any problem condemning the tempter in you or anyone else???

In fact why don't you see that condition in others to begin with???

Why don't you admit you're tempted internally by the tempter and then this one sided good word only game might stop.
Believe me, no one will be able to drag Satan along with him when they're standing in Judgment.
You mean like this?:

Zech. 3:1-3
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

No Satan in the picture? Guess again.

Contrary to what you want to believe Jesus showed us all that Satan and devils were in mankind, period.

That hasn't changed. All have sin. Sin is of the devil. Paul himself had a devil in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7 and had temptations in his flesh and mind. Romans 7:7-13, Gal. 4:14

So, yes, it's never just you or I or anyone else involved in these questions. It's us and the adversary and or his own
Who's making excuses? Show me where I provided any excuses? He's a dead man walking so to speak bound for the Lake of Fire.
I may have mistaken you for a Christian universalist, which I am, who actually loves our neighbors as ourselves.

My apologies.
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Have you understood this?

And I meant Matt 16:18 -19 that it was Peter. that. was given that authority. and not the other 11 disciples .

dan p
You are mistaken about that. You have to take other scripture into account. I showed you Matthew 18:18 where Jesus said the same thing He said in Matthew 16:19 and He applied it to all of the disciples. Also, you need to consider Ephesians 2:19-22 where it talks about the church having the foundation of all the apostles and prophets and not just Peter. With Jesus Christ as the cornerstone. You need to take all of scripture into consideration whenever trying to interpret any given verse or passage.
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Charlie Kirk Didn’t Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn’t, Either

That people are celebrating and offering winner badges to what is basically making arguements that Kirk derserved what he got is the problem. Regardless of what you or anyone else claims there is no justification in the murder of someone expressing their beliefs.

The reality is Kirk is not the only one. There has been hateful and violent speech and even calls from Dems for the death of certain figures. Even its celebration. Polls show around a 1/4 to a 1/3 of young Dems would support political violence and even the killing of opponents who disagreed.

This thinking has been cultivated in the very universities Kirk was engaging with. We had Leftist media trying to blame Kirk and are now sacked. In fact a number of people including teachers at these universities have been dismissed for such hateful responses.

The violence and murder we see now is the result of this rhetoric full stop. That people are attacking kirk and not the violence and killing and even celebrating or remaining silent on condemining this only to want to conflate the two is gross as far as I see. It reminds me of how Hamas was justified and the Jews attacked as the bad ones and the rise of antisemetism. Comes from the same evil spirit.

Yes it comes from both sides. But right now the majority is coming from the radical Left and the evidence is coming out in how they used their power to cultivate such a culture of violence, hate and division.

Any healing requires people to look at themselves and the reactions we are seeing in trying to justify this act and even celebrate it is only making it worse. Still the ideological capture is blinding people and in fact making them double down I think. .

The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States
From your link (dated 2020):

THE ISSUE


The United States faces a growing terrorism problem that will likely worsen over the next year. Based on a CSIS data set of terrorist incidents, the most significant threat likely comes from white supremacists, though anarchists and religious extremists inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda could present a potential threat as well. Over the rest of 2020, the terrorist threat in the United States will likely rise based on several factors, including the November 2020 presidential election.
...This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020. Second, terrorism in the United States will likely increase over the next year in response to several factors. One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period.
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President Trump Files $15 Billion Defamation and Libel Lawsuit Against The New York Times

Like those Trump has previously sued the NY Times can afford to settle. But it is important, it does cost them and it puts them on notice about continuing to print libelous information.

Actually, it doesn't sound like they can afford the amount he's going for.

Per CNN Business:
The lawsuit demands $15 billion in damages, which exceeds the entire market cap of The New York Times Company

So if there was some sort of pre-court settlement offer, it'd have to be significantly less than what he's asking for.

Defamation civil suits typically involve having to clear a pretty high bar.


If he's looking to affect change with regards to how media outlets run, a better use of time and resources would be to reinstitute this:

That would force all media outlets to devote a portion of time to controversial matters, as well as to dedicate some airtime to contrasting views.


Although, that would mean that some of the "Trump-friendly" media would have to extend the same courtesy to their opponents as well.
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Novel highlights power of art and music as a salve to troubled humanity

Michigan-based novelist Angela Shupe’s debut work, “In the Light of the Sun,” can be seen as a testament to the power of art and music to lighten even the most extreme anguish and hardship.

Scheduled for release in October 2025, the book tells the story of two sisters who despite being worlds apart, use their musical gifts to overcome.

The story unfolds in a rural village of Floridablanco in the Pampanga province of the Philippines, and in Florence, Italy. The book highlights the struggles of Italian-Filipino “mestisas” (half-bloods) living in Italy during the Mussolini era.

In counterpoint, the novel outlines a middle-class Filipino family’s struggle to survive in the wake of Imperial Japan’s military occupation of the nation between 1941-1945.

Older sister Rosa Grassi has moved to Florence to be with her beloved grandmother Nonna, and to undergo voice training in preparation for a career in opera. Nonna is a former world-class soprano who has chosen to remain in Italy in retirement.

Continued below.

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