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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump shouldn’t be fooled by Armenia’s corrupt and malicious prime minister

The last genocide was INFESTED with Freemasons who did to Turkey more or less what they did in France.

But my info on the region is about 100 years out of date.

I've heard some people say the trad-Islamists are trying to take it back.

(Gladstone once commented that Disraeli would lean against Armenia for religious reasons; I suspect DJT might. I still think he's paganized, but Jewish.)
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Why do people hate ICE...

Nothing says authentic MAGA better than a pardoned Jan 6 Capitol tourist.

He stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6. Now he's running for Nancy Mace’s seat in Congress.

As evidenced on his campaign website, Dykes’ platform is built around an anti-immigration stance, blaming immigration for disrupting the housing and job markets and driving down wages.

“We’ve lost control of who enters our community, our state, and our nation. This is a deliberate policy to displace us,” Dykes writes on his website.

Following an investigation by the FBI’s Columbia and Washington field offices, Dykes was arrested in Virginia on July 17, 2023. He pleaded guilty in April 2024 to two felony counts of assaulting, resisting or impeding certain officers and agreed that his use of a police riot shield constituted a dangerous weapon.
After reading through his stuff he's not really anti-immigration. He talks about the problems of our immigration system and the issues of the unfettered immigration policies we have had.

We have handled immigration very poorly. He's correct in his listing of the issues unfettered immigration has caused.

We need to severely limit our immigration, do a much better job of vetting who is coming here, not just focusing on criminality but also on belief systems.

It sounds like the current administration is doing a better job of that, at least thats the claim.

Would I vote for him? I don't know enough about him. Can't say I would. But I do agree with the stuff I read regarding immigration which would of course include illegal immigration
As far as quick review went.
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Appointed to Eternal Life - Acts 13:48

Yes. And? I said that it doesn't say they were appointed to believe. Which is true. Is there something you don't understand about that?
Do you have a point? I've not argued that the text says "they were appointed to believe." They were appointed to eternal life. But their act of belief flows from that prior divine appointment, not the other way around. You can't dispute that grammatically. Your best bet for defending your view would be to argue for the middle reading of τεταγμένοι, not a reversal of the syntax.

Wrong. That doesn't line up with the rest of scripture.
This comment of yours was offered in response to a straightforward grammatical analysis of Acts 13:48, not a theological argument. Labeling the grammar as "wrong" or saying it "doesn't line up with Scripture" tacitly concedes that your theology, rather than the text itself, is your standard of truth. Luke's syntax is painfully clear: the entire relative clause ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ("as many as had been appointed to eternal life") functions as a single substantival unit and occupies the subject position of ἐπίστευσαν ("believed"). It cannot mean "those who believed were appointed." That reading is grammatically indefensible, as it would require ἐπίστευσαν to lie within the relative clause as its predicate, reversing the syntactic relationship. Luke wrote the opposite: the appointed ones [subject] believe [predicate]. The Greek allows no other reading.

Whatever your view of the rest of Scripture, it must be reconciled with the grammar Luke actually wrote. If it cannot, then it is your interpretation, not my presentation of the syntax, that produces the apparent contradiction.

Does it matter to you if you interpret that verse in a way that doesn't contradict other scripture...
The irony is hard to miss. You ask whether it matters to me not to contradict other Scripture, yet you dismiss the plain grammar of the verse because it contradicts your interpretation of other passages. Which is more likely at fault: Luke's Greek, or your reading of the rest of the Bible? I am letting Luke speak for himself; you are imposing your system over his syntax. If anyone is forcing a contradiction here, it is not me.

Acts 13:46 which talks about the Jews who were there and rejected the gospel judging themselves unworthy of everlasting life, implying that it was their choice to believe the gospel or not
The issue isn't whether humans make choices. We obviously do. The question is why some believe while others do not.

In your doctrine, God alone judges people to be unworthy of everlasting life
Misrepresenting my argument won't help your case. As I stated in my prior replies:

"The contrast between v. 46 and 48 is between that of self-judgment and divine appointment. Self-judgment explains unbelief. Divine appointment explains belief." (Post #22)​

and

"That is the point of v. 46. Their rejection is morally their own. But the deeper explanation for why one group remains in that hostile unbelief while another responds in faith is given in v. 48. Human unbelief is natural to our fallen nature; God does not need to manufacture it." (Post #23)​

Did you miss these, or are you deliberately misrepresenting my position?

God has appointed that anyone who believes will have everlasting life (John 3:16)
This is a direct contradiction of what Luke actually wrote, and it is not what John 3:16 says. Ὅσοι is a nominative, headless relative pronoun introducing a substantive relative clause. The entire clause, ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον, functions grammatically as the subject of ἐπίστευσαν ("believed"). That is not a matter of interpretation. Grammar dictates the logical order: appointed [subject] --> believed [predicate].

John 3:16 contains no concept of "appointment," let alone an appointment that could override Luke's syntax. You are subtly shifting the meaning of "appointed" in an attempt to evade the text. In Acts 13:48, τεταγμένοι refers to persons who had been placed, assigned, or arranged toward eternal life. But in your statement, "appointed" suddenly refers to a general principle ("God has appointed that anyone who believes..."). These are entirely different categories. You are changing the sense of the term to try to neutralize what Luke clearly wrote.

That does not mean He appointed anyone to believe, as if people don't have a choice in the matter.
Can you clarify what you mean by "choice in the matter"? Again, choice itself is not the point. The issue is the basis of that choice. Does the desire to believe originate autonomously within the fallen human will, or must it be generated by God? (See John 6:44; Rom. 8:7-8).

Acts 13:46 shows that people do have a choice in the matter. Why interpret Acts 13:48 without taking Acts 13:46 and other scriptures into account?
This is a loaded question. You're implying I've ignored verse 46, when it is obvious I've already addressed it. Your choice not to engage my comments doesn't erase them. They're right there for anyone to see. At this point, it looks like you're just firing off replies to keep the disagreement going.

I did not interpret Acts 13:48 without considering verse 46. I explained Luke's contrast: verse 46 reflects self-judgment in unbelief, while verse 48 reflects divine initiative in belief. You've chosen to ignore that explanation, misrepresent my position, and double down on remarks I already addressed. If this is how you intend to engage, our conversation is over.

And once more: context does not override the grammatical subject-predicate relationship. If your understanding of Scripture conflicts with what Luke actually wrote in Acts 13:48, the problem lies in your interpretation, not the text.
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What is everyone having for Thanksgiving?

I am interested to know what kinds of dishes you guys will be having?

My menu tends to gravitate towards Southern US but I wouldn't mind a change?

This year, I was thinking of trying Old- Fashioned Apple Cake with Brown Sugar Frosting and Sage and Brown Butter Biscuits?

I usually make pumpkin and pecan pie but some of the older people (who are not American) have grumbled about pumpkin :confused:

Supreme Court rejects Kim Davis’ request to reconsider landmark gay marriage ruling

Which is why most Americans won't follow that crowd. It's an old argument, but Americans have always rejected it:

"Woe to those who call evil good."

America isn't God and is indeed following a crowd to do evil, much like Sodom.

I'm not certain why we're discussing "America as god" on a Christian forum.

The Overton window, propaganda and terror are effective at manipulating democracy. It's possible to get people to support pretty much anything, and even post-birth infant death is now in some sectors being openly being posited.

You've said openly you view God's position on this matter as evil and I'll be leaving this conversation as arguing against- effectively- a satanic position is "pearls before swine." We can't agree because we invoke different authorities.
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Does the Hebrew grammar of Daniel 9:24–27 support Christian Widener’s “double seventy-weeks” interpretation?

The graph indicates that the Daniel 9:27 covenant is made 30 days after the abomination in Jerusalem -

30 days after the start of the 1290 days. The covenant is 'cutting the great tribulation short'.

The 1260 days of the 2 witnesses are the exact 1st half of the covenant. It is occurring after the abomination in Jerusalem but before the abomination in Mystery Babylon ('Shinar' in Zech 5).

The end of the 1290 days is the mid-point of the 7 year covenant (1260 days into it). The end of the 1290 days is the 7th Trumpet.

Day 1335 is the 45th day into the '2nd half' of the 7 year covenant. The 2nd half (1260 days) is cut short to 45 days.
Your response and chart is so confusing.

Here, please type what day of the 2520 day seven years does the 1335 days period end on ?

tranquil.jpg
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What really is "dividing the body of Christ"??

Y'know, with the way the world is, one would think Christians would see the need to unite together for mutual support and encouragement rather than wrangle over certain points of the faith ad infinitum. But I guess I hope for too much.
What gets me is those who take as a point of pride their increasing fracturousness, taking it as if it were a sign that they truly are the sole loyalists to Christ.
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Using AI vs. Talking To Humans

The "personality" of the AI, if you will, evolves or grows or changes over your interacting with it, and no one seems to be able to know/predict what it will become, or how or why, etc, and if that's not concerning to you, especially as AI gains more capabilities, and we put it in charge of a lot more things, and we move even further and further away from ever being able to know that fully, then I don't know what will, etc. It's one of the main chief primary problems involved with the future of AI safety, and AI safety currently, etc.

God Bless.

There's really nothing to it. Just training data.

The only people who has to worry are those wasting their resources on shallow pleasures.
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Daniel 9:24–27 — Dual 70-Week Structure and “Second Sixty” Interpretation in Hebrew

I’ve been working on a literal translation and grammatical analysis of Daniel 9:24–27, and I believe the prophecy is intentionally structured with two 70-week cycles:

1. First 70 weeks — Ancient fulfillment (457 BC decree → Messiah → 70 AD destruction)


2. Second 70 weeks — Modern fulfillment (1542 Suleiman’s wall rebuilding → 1967 Jerusalem return → final 7-year week)



I’m particularly focused on Daniel 9:25, where the Hebrew reads:

> שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם (shishim u-shenayim) — literally “sixty and two”



Traditional translations render this simply as “sixty-two weeks,” but I interpret it as “second sixty”, marking the first 60 weeks of the second 70-week cycle. My reasoning:

Inversion/wordplay: Verse 25 inverts the normal order compared to verse 26, highlighting a purposeful sequence rather than a simple count.

Cardinal-as-ordinal usage: Hebrew routinely uses cardinal numbers to indicate sequence. Examples include:

Exodus 40:2 — “in the second month” uses the cardinal word for two to indicate sequence.

Daniel 7:25 — “years” (cardinal) used sequentially for prophetic timing.


Contextual necessity: This block must be distinguished from the first 70-week cycle to align with historical events (Suleiman 1542 → Jerusalem 1967).



---

My Interlinear Translation (simplified)

HebrewEnglish

עַל־ נֶחְתַּךְ שִׁבְעִים שָׁבֻעִיםThere are divided out 70 weeks
לְכַלֵּא חַטָּאתfor the restraining of lawlessness
וּלְחָתֵםwhich is marked for the coming punishment
חָזוֹן וּלְחָתֵם עֹלָמִים צֶדֶקfor the sealing of the vision and the age of righteousness
נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַ לִירוּשָׁלִם שָׁבוּעִים שִׁבְעָהfor a ruler and an anointed one for Jerusalem; it shall take seven weeks to build
וְתָשׁוּב בַּשְּׁנַיִם שִׁשִּׁיםand it shall be returned at the second sixty


(Remaining verses continue with the first 70 and second 70-week timeline, including v.26–27.)


---

Dual 70-Week Timeline

CycleWeekEvents / Fulfillment

First 70 7 weeks (49 yrs)457 BC decree → completion of Jerusalem wall (Nehemiah)
First 70 62 weeks408 BC → Messiah arrival (~26–33 AD)
First 70 1 weekMessiah ministry, covenant people cut off → Temple destroyed 70 AD
Second 70 60 weeks1542 Suleiman rebuilds Jerusalem walls → 1967 Israel returns Jerusalem
Second 70 1 week + ½~2025–2032 final tribulation / Day of the Lord
Second 70 remaining ½ weekAbomination removed, age of righteousness begins



---

Argument for “Second Sixty”

1. Hebrew שְׁנַיִם (“two”) functions as ordinal in context — sequence rather than pure quantity.


2. Chiastic structure (v.25 inverted vs. v.26 normal) highlights the dual-cycle reading.


3. Historical alignment supports a second prophetic block distinct from the first.


4. Restraining of lawlessness (v.24) corresponds with the final week revelation in 2 Thessalonians.




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Question for Scholars / Linguists

Given the Hebrew construction, the chiastic inversion, and historical alignment:

1. Is translating שְׁנַיִם as “second sixty” contextually and grammatically defensible?


2. Are there other examples in Scripture where cardinal numbers function as ordinals in prophecy?


3. Does this dual-70-week chiastic reading hold up under textual and grammatical scrutiny, or are there constraints I may be overlooking?



I’ve tried to base this entirely on Hebrew grammar, syntax, and historical alignment rather than prior interpretive traditions. I’d appreciate insights from those familiar with biblical Hebrew, Danielic prophecy, or prophetic numerology.


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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

(CLV) Ac 24:5
For, finding this man a pestilence and |stirrer of insurrections among all the Jews who are on the |inhabited earth, besides a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes,

(CLV) Ac 28:22
Now we count it worthwhile to hear from you what your disposition is. For, indeed, concerning this sect, it is known to us that everywhere it is being contradicted."

(CLV) Ac 28:23
Now setting a day for him, more came to him in the lodging, to whom he expounded, certifying to the kingdom of God, besides persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and the prophets, from morning till dusk.

I won't continue in the folly of debunking what I have already debunked.
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Lindsey Halligan, and the dog that ate the transcript.

....I mean either someone or all of them are lying to the judge. Under any other presidency or congress these folks would have been hauled into congress to answer questions of incompetancy and/or fired. But this is the Trump admin where incompetance takes a back seat to loyalty.
I think you mean incompetence drives the bus. (Because, generally, competence has a lot to lose signing on to this corrupt clown show.)
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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Something to consider about Jesus

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Jesus is God. Jesus is the One who created heaven and earth- Exo20:11. Jesus is the One speaking at Mt Sinai. Jesus is the One who told us how to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus never became the Sabbath, or became Lord of the Sabbath He IS Lord of the Sabbath, and has always been -He has given it as a blessing for all mankind starting at Creation Mark2:27 Exo20:8-11. Resting with God on His Sabbath and Holy Day.

In my opinion, I do not think we should speak for God on something He took ownership of, that is His and He created and tells us why. He also tells us He does not change.

This is what the Lord said about the Sabbath

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

The Sabbath is something man does, not just something God does, so we therefore can disregard His clear instruction of how we are to keep the Sabbath. Jesus said Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent

Jesus never got rid of His law, He said so plainly in Isa 42:21 Mat5:17-30 and we can still do evil on the Sabbath by defiling it.

He told us clearly what man should be doing on the Sabbath. This is written by God Himself- I know of know one greater than He- why Jesus said plainly not a jot or tittle can pass from His law because He is owner of it, not us.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,



Jesus said this:

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Which this is what He was referring to, rest from our sins,

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

Jesus who is Lord of the Sabbath said come to Me and I will give you rest and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading the Word of God Luke4:16 as did His disciples Jew, Gentiles and almost the whole cities, just as He predicted Isa56:6-7 Acts 13:42, 44, Acts18:4

The rest we enter into Christ no one is in rebellion to Him or His commandments (Rom8:7-8) including the 4th commandment. What Hebrews is warning about why those who in their trial of the wilderness did not enter His rest, because they liked their sins more than their love for Jesus to come to Him, do His will and turn (repent) forsaking their sins Pro28:13

Heb4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter (why did they not enter?) because of disobedience,

What were they disobedient of in the trial of the wilderness?

Eze20: 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 But I acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands,16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

The Sabbath is connected to the very first commandment (and is the Power behind all of them) - to thou shalt not have other gods before Me, the Sabbath commandment tells us which God that is, the God of all heaven and earth and everything in it. Exo20:11 Why the Ten Commandments are all interconnected breaking one we break them all- James2:11

Heb4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

I believe God means what He says about keeping the Sabbath day holy. He never treated this commandment any different than the other commandments, they are all written by God, all under His mercy seat, not a jot or tittle can pass, we cannot edit God's own Testimony written by God Himself Exo31:18 God warned us His times and laws would be changed, which is the Sabbath and we see a clear history of this change being made and those who claimed to change the Sabbath centuries ago, said they did so based on their own sense of power over the word of God. The end time battle comes over our worship which is who we obey. Rom6:16 Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Rev14:11-12


Jesus never gave Himself a commandment, the commandments are for us to keep, the Sabbath is something man does. Those who enter His rest Also ceased from their works as God did, on the seventh day. Heb4:10 Heb4:4 Exo20:11

If we stick with the Bible and what God says, He will lead us on the narrow path back to Him. Jesus said many would come to deceive us before He returns. If we live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat4:4 and abide in Him, He will safeguard us. Pro3:5-6 Pro30:5-6

One of the last verses in the Bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city
The same c&p with the same verses that have been refuted over and over. Jesus is indeed God. Jesus did indeed create everything. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is perfectly capable and powerful to complete one covenant and give us another. He is perfectly capable and powerful to fulfill the law including the 10 commandments. He is perfectly capable and powerful to fulfill the 4th commandment on Himself ( not the Strawman of becoming the sabbath that you stated in your post) and declare Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Our rest now is in Jesus not in one day.
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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

It is round but it is like a dish shaped disc, it is not spherical.

View attachment 373118

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The elephant in the room is what is casting the shadow on the moon. Oh, and that the premise of the video is that light is being reflected off the moon (how else can you cast a shadow on the moon) so it rejects one of flat earthers claims that that the moon is its own light source. Another own goal from flat earthers.
He also claims earth shine isn't a thing when it absolutely is. You only need to take a long exposure photo of a half moon to see the dark half is lit up by dim light reflected off the earth. It's one false claim after another which seems par for the course for flat earthers. You gotta lie to flerf.
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Chiropractics offends me

I have a lot of misaligned joints and crack them all the time. However, I know how to do it with the right amount of force and angle to get a ”damp” crack that stimulates synovial fluid production.

Seeing the commercials chiropractors make themselves is just painful. They seem to be giving way more force and angle than what the patients need. You can hear their joints weren’t ready for that manoeuvre.

Teens Who Savagely Attacked Well-Known DOGE Staffer Avoid Jail Time

A "thousand criminals" did not attack anyone. There were a small bunch who did, all arrested for violent acts.
The mob was shouting their intent to kill Mike Pence. "Pence got out before they murdered him" isn't a great counterargument.
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