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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

PHOTOS: Tickhill Psalter’s Jesse Tree shines in Morgan Library’s Advent exhibit

Part of the New York Public Library’s Spencer Collection, the Tickhill Psalter is on view throughout Advent and Christmas at The Morgan Library & Museum in its exhibit “Sing a New Song: The Psalms in Medieval Art and Life.” A full-page Jesse Tree introduces the Psalms in the Tickhill Psalter, a 14th-century illuminated manuscript from the Augustinian Worksop Priory in Nottinghamshire, England.


Tree of Jesse (Psalm 1), from the Tickhill Psalter, England, Nottinghamshire, Worksop Priory, 1303-14, New York Public Library, Spencer 26. fol. 6v. The Medieval manuscript is on display in Morgan Library’s Advent exhibit. Credit: Courtesy of the Morgan Library
Tree of Jesse (Psalm 1), from the Tickhill Psalter, England, Nottinghamshire, Worksop Priory, 1303-14, New York Public Library, Spencer 26. fol. 6v. The Medieval manuscript is on display in Morgan Library’s Advent exhibit. Credit: Courtesy of the Morgan Library


David appears in the historiated B of Psalm 1, providing a conceptual link to scenes from his life in the Jesse Tree on the facing page. “Beatus vir,” or “Blessed is the man,” the first stanza opens in celebration of the one who delights in God’s law, concluding: “That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither, — what they do prospers.”

Continued below.

What’s on your mind?

Hi all, hope life is treating you all well! Doing great here. We just got our Christmas tree up this weekend, and it just snowed a ton, so I’m happy! ^_^ I now have a nearly 1 year old daughter, it’s going to be fun to show her the snow!
Hi Owlette! :wave: Great to see you again! I'm glad you're doing well and enjoying the snow! Are you and your family enjoying the Christmas tree? I'm going to start putting up the Christmas decorations tomorrow! :christmastree:
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Pete Hegseth denies he gave orders to ‘kill everybody’ on alleged ‘narco-boat’

Defense secretary called reports about his role in strike as ‘fake news’ intended to discredit US military

The US defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, has declared recent reporting that he may have illegally ordered all people to be killed in a military strike in the Caribbean as “fake news” on Friday evening, adding that the series of strikes of people on boats had been “lawful under both US and international law”.

I didn't do it, but it was legal!

Adm Frank M “Mitch” Bradley, head of Special Operations Command, reportedly ordered a second strike to kill the two survivors to comply with Hegseth’s orders.
As I've said before, I would bet that the orders as vetted by Pentagon lawyers skirted actually saying "kill everybody."

If Bradley presumed it that way...and transmitted the orders "more clearly" that way, then Bradley will take the fall, as will some or all of the officers below him, most especially the senior operations officer on the scene. Given today's thorough LOAC training, it's likely to get down to the person who actually pulled the trigger. The death march is going to start with whoever directed the second pass....
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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Who were the two men who fled from the tunnels?

Two terrorists who had emerged from the extensive tunnel system in the east of Rafah were eliminated from the air. The question arises as to whether Israel has just caught the highest-ranking terrorist leaders in eastern Rafah.

From the outside, this skirmish may seem like one of many, but this time something was different. The two emerged alone from the depths, not as part of a group, as had been customary in the region in recent weeks. It is precisely this circumstance that has prompted the security authorities to investigate whether they could be the commander of the so-called East Rafah Battalion, known in Israel as ‘Magd Janina’ and his deputy. It would be a blow that would severely affect the entire remaining Hamas structure in the region.

Whether the two men killed in the morning were indeed the battalion commander of East Rafah and his deputy remains unclear for the time being. If this assumption is confirmed, the incident marks a turning point: not only would another part of the leadership be eliminated, but it would also show that the underground structures no longer offer protection. It is rare for high-ranking commanders to leave their positions and it is a clear sign of decline.

For weeks, Israel has been fighting in the depths beneath Rafah against a structure that Hamas has built up over many years. The tunnels of the eastern Rafah corridor were once a place of retreat, a weapons depot, a command post and a lifeline for terrorist cells seeking to evade the Israeli armed forces. But the systematic destruction of the underground passages is dramatically changing the situation. More than 44 terrorists were killed last month; many more have surrendered or been captured.

The night before the current operation, Israeli forces discovered four more terrorists who had also emerged from an underground tunnel in Rafah and were killed in a coordinated operation with the air force. The pressure is mounting, and it is becoming increasingly difficult for Hamas to protect its last enclaves.

At the same time, Israel has sent an offer to the terrorist organisation via intermediaries: those who are still in the tunnels can surrender, will then be imprisoned in Israel and allowed to return to Gaza after serving their sentences – on condition that they completely disarm and renounce violence. The proposal may seem generous, but it has a clear goal: to completely break the underground backbone of Hamas without putting soldiers at unnecessary risk. So far, the organisation has not responded officially, but several prisoners have stated that they have come to the surface because their situation had become untenable.

The situation remains serious, but it is moving noticeably in a direction that hardly anyone dared to hope for months ago: the underground in Rafah is losing its power.

These days will decide how long Hamas will remain capable of acting in this area. The signs indicate that its ability to fight in a coordinated manner is virtually non-existent.
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Hierarchy in Heaven and Virginity

“There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.” - 1 Corinthians 15:41–42

Paul here speaks of different bodies or "bodies", the sun is different from the moon, each star has its own unique twinkle, its own glory different from the others, and different from the sun or the moon. In the same way the present body--mortal, corruptible, etc--is different from the body in the resurrection (immortal, incorruptible, etc). While this body dies and decays, when it is raised up it is glorified and made immortal and incorruptible; "sown in dishonor, raised in honor". So the glory of this present body and the glory of the body in the resurrection are different--we should not imagine that the future risen body will just be like this one, it has a distinct glory--mortal vs immortal, corruptible vs incorruptible, dishonor vs honor, etc.

One may ask exactly how we might look in the resurrection, what about those who had missing limbs? Or those who died as small children, will they still be small children in the resurrection? I think Paul would answer and tell us that in some sense we're missing the point. The bodily existence in the resurrection will be radically different than our current bodily experiences. We cannot look at our current bodily experience and attempt to read that into the future. Though we can know that it is the body--for Christ rose from the dead, the first fruits of the resurrection of the dead.

Luke 19:17
“Well done, good servant; because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.”

This is part of a parable, where the faithful servant having been faithful with little, is given more. When we reach the end of our mortal days and stand before the Lord, how we lived with what what we had--our circumstances, the gifts we had, the people God brought into our lives, etc--how did we live? Were we faithful with what we had? Were you faithful as a parent? As a son or daughter? As a spouse? As a neighbor? Were you kind and welcoming to the stranger? If you were an employer were you just and fair to your employees? The good and faithful servant was faithful with the little they had, and so much more is given them. It's not about having authority in the future world, but rather that the faithful servant has done well with what they were given.

Matthew 5:19
“Whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

In contrast to those who tell others to not bother with the commandments, for if one is lax in even the least commandment he shall be called least in the kingdom. Ultimately the point Jesus is making is found in the following verse, "If your righteousness does not exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom". This requires a bit of unpacking, this is about the hypocrisy of those who claim to follow the Law; they claim to observe God's commandments but fail in the small things, they brag about how they tithe but fail to care for the elderly, they fail to show mercy. God isn't interested in religious showmanship, He wants sincere worshipers. It's not those who want everyone to think they are holy who are holy, it's those who do good in the dark of night, it's not the one who prays loudly in public for attention, but the one who goes into the closet and cries out to God, it is not the one who is wealthy publicly donating a large donation to the Temple, but the poor widow who gives her last coin.

In God's kingdom, that is to say, in the way that God is King, it isn't the hypocrites who want everyone to praise them for being devout who are called great, it's the tiny unimportant people who are sincere in their faithfulness, not calling attention to themselves, but simply and faithfully obeying God in the tiny little ways of their life. The one who snubs the homeless person and refuses to show compassion to the weak will be called least; but the one who is faithful to God's command--to love our neighbor, to show kindness even to the unthankful, to forgive those who hate us, etc--that is greatness in God's kingdom.

The way God is King--that's what Kingdom of God/Heaven means--is not like the way kings act here on earth; His Kingdom, His Kingship is found in the Meek Carpenter from Galilee who suffers--Jesus shows us the Kingdom. Jesus is the King.

1 Corinthians 7:38
“So he who marries his fiancée does well, but he who refrains from marriage will do even better.”

St. Paul argues that he believes it preferable (but it is not a commandment) to remain unmarried in this life; because being married means certain obligations--the one who gets married has obligations toward spouse and (almost certainly) children. Whereas the unmarried can focus on other things. Paul is clear that he does not regard celibacy to be a commandment; but he offers his opinion that celibacy is preferable to marriage. It's simply a matter of how and where one's energies are put. If I am unmarried, I could drop everything and go be a missionary somewhere if that was my calling (e.g.) but if I am married then my obligation is to my wife and kids, I can't just uproot myself that would be selfish and wrong. I owe my wife my time, my love, my energy--because I have made a sacred obligation and commitment to her and to our family. For Paul, who chose celibacy, he believed it was the best choice; but he does not dare command anyone refuse to marry, and indeed it is good to marry if you have promised to marry someone--marriage is good and blessed and holy.

Matthew 19:12
“There are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

Similar to the above, those who commit themselves to lives of celibacy and chastity choose a good calling. Those who can, do so; but not everyone is called to celibacy and chastity. Both the celibate life and the married life are holy and valid life vocations.

Revelation 14:4
“These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins… These follow the Lamb wherever he goes.”

what do all these verses mean?

There are a lot of interpretations of the 144,000. I tend toward the view that this refers to the collective whole of the Faithful of all places and times. And they are called undefiled and virgin because they are pure from the world. Not that they are literally virgins. The Church is called out from the world--Ekklesia--to be faithful to her one Lord Jesus Christ.

Though, of course, the Revelation is always difficult to try and interpret. And different opinions and interpretations abound.
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Trump plan for peace in Ukraine leaked; calls for Ukraine to cede additional territory, cut military forces. US Ukraine envoy to leave role

By letting Russia have what it wants in Ukraine. How clever!
25,000 dead soldiers just last month. Joe Biden said he would permit a small incursion and there have been over a million casualties, many civilians.
Trump is doing what no Democrat, no person, has been able to do and that is getting the two countries to negotiate for peace. Everyone in the world should support such humanitarian efforts. Russia and Ukraine may or may not come to an agreement, that is up to their leaders, but at least Trump is putting forth the effort.
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The ANE perspective on creation & am I fence sitting?

For a big part of my life I have been confident in the young earth creation model but one thing that has sort of been a sticking point for me is the ancient near east (ANE) interpretation of creation. It was first pointed out to me in talking about day 2 of creation, the idea that the writer is making reference to a solid firmament. It is further reasoned that the people in those days only knew of a flat earth cosmology, so they were just speaking in terms that everyone would understand. Just because they got something wrong does not mean God’s word is not true. It’s not a science textbook after all. And I have thought about this and wondered if there is any validity to it. The other thing that has really captured my attention is ideas surrounding behemoth and leviathan found in the book of Job. I have been persuaded that these are references to dinosaurs until I saw this video of Ben Stanhope’s critique of Answers in Genesis. He makes a compelling argument that these are descriptions of a mythological creature that symbolizes a false god, such as the followers of the Canaanite deity Baal. The comparison may have been a way of showing people that the true God is omnipotent and has no fear of them. And while I may want to entertain the idea that humans lived alongside dinosaurs, it is a weak argument to suggest Job makes mention of it.





It leads me to ask, if I am wrong on these things, what else am I wrong about? Most people who espouse this view about creation week, saying that it was a polemic to the pagan nations who say their gods took part in creation, tend to also be theistic evolutionists. In a wikipedia article “Firmament” it reads,

But one thing I found interesting is that John Hancock believes the ancients did believe the earth was round.


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Maybe the way to reconcile this is to say that philosophers in those days were more split on the issue and many thought it was flat before the time of the Middle Ages.





But if I cede the argument and say it had an ANE context, wouldn’t I be inconsistent to still believe in young earth creationism (YEC)? I have argued before that the Bible is inerrant and infallible and that no contradictions exist, only apparent contradictions. And I do feel in some way it would be a compromise to say that the Bible was wrong about the firmament being a solid dome that separated the heavenly waters above. I understand that the Bible is not a science textbook, but I believe that it has to be right whenever it does talk about science.
Even though your statement "ancient near east (ANE) interpretation of creation" is hypothetical....what does that have to do with Creation given to us in Genesis by Moses? Its not like he made Creation up...the information was given to him by God. Do you think God had a ancient near east interpretation of Creation?
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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

Indeed, membership into Mensa, IQ of 130 or higher, isn’t a prerequisite to “connect the dots.”

Those “dots” involve the conspicuous absence from those verses in Genesis of Eve lusting. As I illuminated previously, there are at least 3 words if not 4 words in the Hebrew for lust and lusting
Perhaps a Herculean effort on your part to not connect desire to lust?

I'll leave that to your eyes
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Books You or I May Want to Read

Just received "We Who Wrestle With God" by Jordan B. Peterson. Hope to start it in the next day or so.
Some months have passed since you posted the above. Have you finished reading the book? Did you find that you liked it?

(Thinking of you! Best wishes for a blessed holiday season. :blush: )
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Scientists find coastal seas acidifying shockingly fast


"New findings show that some coastal regions will become far more acidic than scientists once thought, with upwelling systems pulling deep, CO2-rich waters to the surface and greatly intensifying acidification. Historic coral chemistry and advanced modeling reveal that these regions are acidifying much faster than expected from atmospheric CO2 alone, raising serious concerns for fisheries, marine ecosystems, and coastal economies."

The emissions of CO2 into our atmosphere is not only about rising sea levels and hungry polar bears. It threatens also directly the food production and income of millions of people living near and from the sea.
The acidification of the oceans by the CO2 is a different consequence of the release of this gas, aside from global warming.

US Factory Boom Disproportionately Favors Poorer Counties

The biggest winners of Biden’s green climate policies? Republicans.

The Inflation Reduction Act, which contained the largest climate investment in US history, would “throw money at woke climate and social programs that won’t work ..."

More than three quarters of announced clean energy investments are in Republican districts​

That was not Trump in the quote, but it might as well have been. Those woke investments in red states are mostly history.

‘Deeply demoralizing’: how Trump derailed coal country’s clean-energy revival

Biden earmarked billions for former coal communities in Appalachia – and his successor came and took it away

For a moment, Jacob Hannah saw an unprecedented opportunity to make Appalachia great again.

In 2022, the Biden administration earmarked billions of dollars to help revitalize and strengthen former coal communities. The objective was to lay down building blocks for the region to transition from extractive industries like coal and timber to a hub for solar and other advanced energy technologies, with a view to long-term economic, climate and social resilience.

But on his first day in office, Donald Trump scrapped Biden’s clean energy and environmental programs, which he lambasted as woke, anti-American liberal hoaxes.

Hannah runs Coalfield Development, a non-profit organization headquartered in Huntington, focused on rebuilding south-west Virginia’s economy and social fabric through workforce training, job creation and revitalizing abandoned buildings and mines in some of the most forgotten corners of coal country.

Coalfield Development has trained more than 4,000 people – including many formerly incarcerated and/or in addiction recovery – over the past 15 years in everything from solar installation to drywalling and first aid.

Rural communities in Appalachia were on the verge of breaking ground on projects [sparked by the availability of funding in 2022] when the grants were paused or terminated by the so-called “department of government efficiency”, or Doge, led by the billionaire Trump donor Elon Musk.
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Walking that Straight narrow path.

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14)

Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The Bible contains the truth, and the truth is the Word of God, which is the real life of man. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (St. John 17:6, 8, &17) And Jesus answered him saying, "It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." (St. Luke4: 4) "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (St. John 6:63)

So we have to believe the word of God and do it. "Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read". (Isaiah 34:16)

Man disobeyed and brought death into the world; Jesus came and restored life unto man. "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1Corinthians 15:21-22) How did Jesus restore life to man? By coming into the world, living a perfect life before God the Father as an example to this disobedient and sinful man. "Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul. I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me. I am weary of my crying: my throat is dried: mine eyes fail while I wait for my God. "They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away." (Psalm 69:1-4)

The Lord gave all of his commandments, laws, and statues to the children of Israel to live by and to teach all of the other sons of Adam. "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.” (Exodus 19:5-6)

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you. But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day. Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.” (Deuteronomy 4:1-10)

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.” Amen. (Romans 9:1-5)

God also made this proclamation: "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:11)

Trump to pardon Ex-Honduras President Guilty of Drug Trafficking and conspiring to import cocaine into the United States

Mr. Hernández directed the police and military to protect smugglers who paid him off, and he promised to shield them from extradition to the United States. Mr. Hernández once reassured a Honduran cocaine trafficker that “by the time the gringos find out, we will have eliminated extradition,” according to prosecutors.
“We are going to stuff the drugs up the gringos’ noses, and they’re never even going to know it,” --NYT
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First John Unction of Fellowship Explained By The Spirit In First Corinthians Fourteen

I see you have understanding. I am interested.

The Spiritual anointing is a very interesting subject.

It's like The LORD poured a sort of heavy, warm, oil upon your head that over time tends to slowly drip down upon your shoulders and body. That Spiritual oil contains healing as well as holiness.

It's the very thing that satan fights against the most. He was the anointed cherub, so he understands how critical it is to GOD's people operating in power.


As was stated by the OP,....

"When John refers to an Anointing from the Spirit, he is referring to our Fellowship, not to any individual,..."

This is a position of ignorance and non-experience that many people on here share.
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