David Lamb said:

The bible doesn't tell us how old Mary was, nor does it tell us that she rode a donkey to Bethlehem. It also doesn't tell us that Joseph was much older than Mary. We have songs that tell us these things, for example, "Little Donkey" and "The Cherry Tree Carol" which begins: "Joseph was an old man, an old man was he." But such songs are unbiblical.

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Information/facts that are not mentioned in the Bible may not be necessarily untrue. The early church has circulating info and sometimes literature/books with extra-Biblical stories - of course the reliability and authenticity of those are at a very different level than the Biblical texts (and may even be completely fabricated), but there is no reason to dismiss by definition ALL extra-Biblical accounts/stories/books. These were part of early Christian society and its written or oral tradition. We assume all kind of historical events based on extra-Biblical information ..

The key is that each group should have representation proportional to their proportion of the population.

rjs330 said:

That supports gerrymandering.

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No. It's precisely opposed to Gerrymandering. The point of Gerrymandering is to give specific groups more representation than their share of the population.

Yttrium said:

Are you saying that Biden't corrupt pardons justify Trump's corrupt pardons?

I disagree.

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I don't think they justify them. However, it does annoy me when people talk about how awful Trump's corrupt pardons are if they didn't raise similar complaints against Biden's.

Every time a President offers corrupt pardons I hope it will finally incentivize people to get rid of, or at least restrict, the pardon power, but despite it being something both Democrats and Republicans complain about, there doesn't seem to have been much legislative movement in that direction.

Surely neglecting apostles is ludicrous.

LUDIC

More evidence that Israelis are more concerned about any leaking which shows Israel in a bad light and much less concerned about the abuse of prisoners.

A leaked IDF video showing alleged detainee abuse has Israel reeling, but not in the way you might think | Roy Schwartz

However, the criticism in the Israeli journalist’s post was not aimed directly at Tomer-Yerushalmi. His main target was Channel 12’s legal analyst, Guy Peleg, who aired the leaked footage. Just last week, it was reported that Channel 12 News had assigned a security detail to Peleg, due to concerns that there might be attempts to harm him. Not long afterwards, Amichai Eliyahu, the heritage minister, posted about Peleg on his X account: “My heart is broken … In prison, he will be safe.” Last weekend even saw fans of Peleg’s favourite football club hold a banner in the stadium, informing him he is unwelcome there.

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If Peleg is harmed then the heritage minister will be guilty of incitement.

This comes as no surprise. In Israeli society, there is a prevailing notion that soldiers should be bulletproof – “even sacred”, as Haaretz journalist Tom Levinson told me. “It feels as if they should be able to do whatever they want, and there shouldn’t be any repercussions.” This applies to accusations of war crimes in the Gaza Strip as well as to actions outside the territory.

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Michie said:

At the University of California Berkeley on Monday (Nov. 10), a bloody clash erupted as hundreds of people protested a Turning Point USA (TPUSA) event. The final stop of the “American Comeback Tour” occurred two months after TPUSA cofounder Charlie Kirk was assassinated on a Utah campus. The Berkeley stop also was the organization’s first visit to California since Kirk’s death.

Video of the melee showed masked protesters chanting and waving signs. One man wearing a “Freedom” T-shirt had blood dripping down his face. Some protesters lit firebombs, hurled glass containers, and threw rocks at police in riot gear. According to news reports, four people were arrested.

Event cohost Frank Turek, a Christian apologist who mentored Kirk, recalled telling Kirk how much he wanted to attend the Berkeley event. “It is so progressive and liberal in [its] views,” Turek said of the university, “and I wanted to provide evidence that Christianity was indeed true.”

Chaos Outside UC Berkeley’s TPUSA Event​

Continued below.

Violent Protests Erupt Outside Turning Point USA Event at UC Berkeley

At UC Berkeley on Monday (Nov. 10), a bloody clash erupted as hundreds of people protested a Turning Point USA (TPUSA) event.

churchleaders.com

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More ‘mostly peaceful’ protest I see.

CoreyD said:

The universe is the heavens, isn't it.
It's not heaven where birds and airplanes traverse.
What is the heavens of heavens, or heaven of heavens mentioned in these verses? Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27


Resided. The waters are no longer there since the floodgates of the heavens burst open. Genesis 7:11,

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Seems like they are still there. Most translations say "windows of the heaven(s)" Malachi 3:10 KJV — Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

CoreyD said:

I would guess the water was somewhere above the Mesosphere.
It's only a guess as I don't know.

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Then the waters could have been much further, and possibly were the material with which God made the stars and planets and galaxies?

CoreyD said:

Can you give me a rough idea where the sun, moon and stars traverse?

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The sun and stars don't technically "traverse" with respect to earth, as far as we can tell. but they are in outer space, above earth's atmosphere.

CoreyD said:

You speak as though you believe the firmament is a solid dome, rather than a region of atmosphere.
Am I reading you correctly?

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No. Nor do I believe the firmament stops at the edge of earth's atmosphere.

You haven't answered the above issues.
John clearly said the events were starting soon, in 4 different ways.
"near", "soon", he "Shared in their tribulation" - and he wanted them to obey his message.
That's NOT possible for THEM if we narcissistically assume it's all about US!

John wrote in a genre called apocalyptic symbolism which was common to 200 BC to about 200 AD.
Have you read any of the other works of the period? I've read snatches - years ago.
Enough to be convinced by those theologians that show it's a style that comments on the period the author lives in.

It's like dressing up the day's political events in the language of comic book heroes.

It's not a linear timeline of the future, it's a waltz around certain themes.
It's not a timeline, it's a circular thematic sermon.
And sermons often encourage us to consider the promised return of the Lord!

This does so by not just theologically asserting the promise of the Lord's return in judgement and salvation - as Paul might.
It does it by picturing it. But if you look closely - we see the Lord's return in judgement at a number of different points!

EG: In the end of Chapter 6, and multiple times, from multiple different points of view, at the end.
How can it be a timetable of the future if it's got Jesus returning at the end of Chapter 6, and multiple points at the end?
That doesn't make sense.

Anyone approaching it with today's trendy interpretive goggles of "What do me, myself, and I all think this means for the next decade?" is going to end up a bit...

Michie said:

Are Tattoos, Even Works Of Art Placed On Human Skin, Immoral? – Mike Pantile on Facebook

(Very short video. Less than 5 minutes.)

What do you think? Do you think tattoos need to be decommissioned? Do they have any sort of powers spiritually?

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Oh, I hope not. I have several, though they all are Christian themed, if that makes a difference.

Someone, somewhere, will sue a Christian cake-baker over this burgeoning atrocity and the baker will lose because it's not as strongly forbidden in Scripture (even though Christ defines marriage as one man and one woman for life pretty strictly. But we already ignore that.)

Chesterton said:

In that case then, again, they're not unique. Go re-read the story of the Exodus, and tell me if you had a friend who behaved the way the Jews did, would you want him as a friend?

Setting aside the fact that Moses committed premeditated murder and fled from justice...they get freed from captivity by supernatural miracles from their God which they witness, then they see the pursuing enemy miraculously destroyed, then they complain that the free food (manna) isn't good enough (which sounds like a lot of EBT recipients in 2025 America), then when they feel Moses is taking a little too long on Sinai, they reject their savior who saved them (God) and worship a gold calf.

But I'm not picking on them. When I say they're not unique, the way they behaved could have been the same if they were any other people, like you or me.

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Gentiles behaved just as badly or worse. Everyone behaved badly from Adam forward and there were consequences. Hence the need for a New Covenant...

2PhiloVoid said:

"the Quran"

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You know this one won't get a warning label even though Islam is worse.

> mideast peace deal
> in the middle of a plague (covid)
> being called the messiah
> doesn't care about the desire of women (I remember twenty years ago being sheltered and thinking it meant an 18+ guy, not the being friends with Epstein and Ehud Barak)
> family Jesuit ties because of course
> CONSTANTLY blasphemously compared to Jesus Christ on s level even Obama wasn't
> art of the deal / "makes craft prosper in his hand"

No I don't follow "Krav Maga."

I honestly think he's the guy in Revelation. I was actually working on collecting the data on it- which was very overwhelming and constituted multiple years of research- before I realized the talmud teaches the age of consent should be three and (except for the kids) I don't care if they get torched. ****

If I were in Israel, I'd get out.

****I don't claim to be a good person.

This "He went on to repeat the familiar arguments: that the Bible doesn’t condemn loving same-sex relationships, that the word “homosexual” wasn’t in the text until modern translations, and that the biblical prohibitions were only about exploitation." does not amount to a justification for following "transgender ideology". Indeed, if exploitation is condemned in the Bible, perhaps people should be taking care not to support the exploitation of children, a minority of people who are truly gender ambiguous, those who might be traumatised and vulnerable to being misled, anyone who requires a traditional gender specific space from public bathrooms to sport, and the moral principles of multiple long established religious philosophies, all just to avoid bothering a few psychologists who are stronger on belief and opinion than any actual knowledge, and some folk in the business of selling drugs, gadgets and surgery who do not care if their products cause irreversible harm?

Wendy's to close hundreds of U.S. stores as low-income consumers cut back​

November 11, 2025 / 10:17 AM EST / CBS/AP

Wendy's plans to close hundreds of U.S. restaurants in the coming months as revenue and profits decline, with the company citing cutbacks by lower-income consumers that it expects will persist through year's end.

On a Friday investor call, Ken Cook, Wendy's interim CEO, didn't disclose the exact number or locations of restaurants that it plans to shutter. But he said the Dublin, Ohio-based company is likely to close in the "mid-single digit percentage" of its 6,011 U.S locations, or roughly 300 store closures if it shuts 5% of its existing restaurants.

Wendy's said the closures will start in the fourth quarter this year. Closing underperforming locations will improve traffic and profitability at its remaining U.S. restaurants, Cook added.

Fast-food chains have been struggling to lift sales as lower-income consumers feel increasingly squeezed by rising food costs. Both Wendy's and McDonald's have introduced value meals to entice diners, but Cook said he doesn't expect the financial strain on these households to ease soon.

"We do see more pressure on the lower-income consumer," he said Friday. "We continued to see that in [the third quarter] and we expect that to continue into the fourth."

I'm thinking that we should focus on the sins that Jesus was most concerned about.

"As God is my witness, if we lose the midterms and we lose 2028, some in this room are going to prison, myself included. They're not going to stop."


The last time, he defrauded Trump's followers, but Trump pardoned him. No pardons this time. And now he's facing the reality.

Pommer said:

Suddenly, social-Darwinism is cool.

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With freedom comes responsibility. Its immoral for a healthy adult to ask his neighbors to take care of you for years when you can take responsibility for yourself.

Hans Blaster said:

I don't know where humans come from? Seriously man, this is basic knowledge. All humans grow from a single cell to adulthood. (Or did you spontaneously pop into existence?)

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Not ultimately, no.

Hans Blaster said:

Then what is this "nature" you speak of?

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God's nature, as in His essence

Hans Blaster said:

What good is the "truth" of a non-existence? You bet I am confused. You speak in gibberish.

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Existence is a category for objects, not truths. Truths either obtain or they don't, but there are numerous ways for a truth to obtain.

Hans Blaster said:

It's not a sensible position. You are just making assertions about the god you believe in somehow granting properties to "truths" by merely existing.

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what you consider sensible is of no interest to me.

Hans Blaster said:

And so?

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And so assertion is as good an argument as any.

Hans Blaster said:

Stuff that exists and demonstrable. That is my basis.

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"Demonstrable"? By what means? And to whom? We're quickly treading towards the diallelus.