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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Average consumer now carries $6,329 in credit card debt. 'People are stretched,' expert says

Are you conceding on that point; or is that your answer to my question?
I thought the sardonic 500 eyerolls were implied but...
Job losses are part of the picture. When people can't afford to buy products; employers need to downsize to stay in business.

Another part of the picture is that as costs rise due to inflation; wage increases are not keeping in step; so those who manage to keep their jobs, are feeling the squeeze too.
I forgot the tarifs.
World economies are all connected.

Europe depends heavily on Russian energy. That energy is being cut off. That means that there is less energy on the market. Europe's people are struggling to heat their homes. Their economy is in the dumper.
Europe is mostly done with Russian fossil fuels.
As this world runs on energy, it boggles my mind that the price of oil is being suppressed in the face of short supply and rising inflation.
Suppressed how?
Wars burn a lot of energy too. I don't believe that it's coincidence that Iran, and Venezuela, have recently become sharp points of interest.
From whom?
I believe that WWIII is already started; and I suspect that this ruse will soon come to an end.
Good grief.
However, I still pray for peace.
Could you do less?
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Does reality pass the Turing test?

I suppose that I'm expecting wiser heads to prevail... running like lemmings off a cliff because of some charismatic leader wouldn't seem to be an effective survival strategy. Makes for an effective plot device though, if you're looking to create conflict.
Wiser heads usually prevail, but if an insane charismatic leader turns the herd against them, preying on the paranoia of the people, there will be problems.

Why is it that behavior that I'd find unthinkable in myself, is so easily dismissed as normal when it occurs in others?

Is it true then, I could put you in GTA and you'd accept it as normal?

What's the Turing test for reality, if not the fact that it behaves in a way that you yourself wouldn't?
I'm still proposing that you may be way more rational than average. It's our irrationality that can distinguish us more from AI.
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Angels in heaven

Matthew 18:10 KJV
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

.....

What does this mean? Do the little children have angel in heaven that is connected to them? Do we all have an angel in heaven that corresponds to us?
Do some of our angels do something other than behold God? Is my angel less innocent/good than a child's angel?

Or does it mean that when a child dies it becomes a particularly devoted angel?
Do we become angels if we go to heav lighten?

Or is the soul actually an angel and we are in heaven at the same time as being on earth without knowing it? We are our own angel, so to speak?

Or... what does it mean?

Cheers

Angels are God's messengers.

My husband died recently & I had a dream a few days ago where by my husband was alive & well, it was a fabulous dream, so I believe that when we die our souls turn into angels.

When we are born the soul is this spark of light, a star is born & when we die this star carries on as an angel to comfort us in times of grief.

The legend of the Jews by BY LOUIS GINZBERG

Between morning and evening the angel carries the soul around, and shows her where she will live and where she will die, and the place where she will buried, and he takes her through the whole world, and points out the just and the sinners and all things. In the evening, he replaces her in the womb of the mother, and there she remains for nine months.

When the time arrives for man to quit this world, the same angel appears and asks him, "Dost thou recognize me?" And man replies, "Yes; but why dost thou come to me to-day, and thou didst come on no other day?" The angel says, "To take thee away from the world, for the time of thy departure has arrived." Then man falls to weeping, and his voice penetrates to all ends of the world, yet no creature hears his voice, except the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] alone. Man remonstrates with the angel, "From two worlds thou didst take me, and into this world thou didst bring me." But the angel reminds him: "Did I not tell thee that thou wert formed against thy will, and thou wouldst be born against thy will, and against thy will thou wouldst die? And against thy will thou wilt have to give account and reckoning of thyself before the Holy One, blessed be He."
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Three ICE detainees shot, 2 dead, at ICE facility in Dallas; suspected shooter committed suicide.

How do you know? Are you at the meetings? Do you have the Intel? Show me the documents.
That's like asking me to prove I don't beat my wife. An effective slanderer depends upon lies they know others are going to find difficult to disprove. It's not like anyone can interview all the millions of immigrants and have them provide evidence they were never in a prison or mental institution.

I do know ICE has records of 104,000 criminal "non-citizens" having been arrested by border officials from fiscal year 2021 to 2024. Could be drug runners or cartel members. But I've seen no evidence of millions of immigrants coming from prisons or mental institutions.

Slander is not of the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit causes me to NOT WANT TO believe ANYTHING bad said about others without evidence, because negative prejudice violates loving others as myself.

Who's he slandering?
The millions of immigrants who he says are coming from prisons and mental institutions who are not coming from mental institutions or prisons.
The countries where those people are coming from?
I don't believe so.
How do you know that zero illegals have been in prison or zero illegals immigrants have been in a mental hospital?
I'm sure there have been illegals who probably have been in prison before. But Trump in general is slandering millions of immigrants who are people just like you or me. Trump dislikes immigrants based upon negative prejudice. I know that because he doesn't want birthright citizenship for immigrants. Trump does not want children born from immigrants to become citizens.
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The 2025 Government Shutdown Thread

Is this all the Democratic bill does? Is it really a clean CR that merely makes the change you mention. If not, isn't this a strawman?
I don't know. Why don't you go find it and read it.
What you suggest SHOULD be presented on the floor by Democrats or should be presented as an amendment of the Republican bill, perhaps even by a Republican.

From all that I have seen, The Democratic bill includes much, much more. I suppose I shouldn't have called it a repeal of the law of the land. It is indeed its own law with the expect of repealing sections of the law passed earlier this year.
Quote it then.
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10/7/23 Anniversary Hamas Attacked Israel

And two days before the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded...

Too little, too late (along with all the extortion for rare earth minerals, all the immigrants sent to virtual death camps in alligator alcatraz, el salvador, sudan, etc., the zip-tied children, the hungry children losing food assistance, the children whose fathers are deported, etc., etc.,

I hope President Zelensky wins the Nobel Prize for peace.
You do realize that Hamas had to agree to this peace deal, right? This is the first time that Hamas has actually accepted and agreed to a peace deal with Israel.
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How much of your income are you willing to have taken for taxpayer funded healthcare.

There is no such thing as free anything it is paid for one way or another.

But its more fair imo that people in necessity could have access to healthcare.
I heard people have died because they were denied basic treatments if that is true, that is bad
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Zechariah 5 is imminent

It has been announced that Hamas has accepted President Trump’s 20-point Gaza plan, “with conditions.” The headlines, as well as Trump himself, heralded it as a turning point: hostages would come home, the war would end, reconstruction would begin. In reality, Hamas has not agreed to the plan at all, but framing their response as agreement has bought them more time and leverage as they try to retain control of Gaza.

The Trump plan is fundamentally a roadmap for Hamas’s removal: full release of hostages, disarmament, exile of leadership, and reconstruction of Gaza under moderate Arab and U.S. supervision. Its underlying logic is simple: peace and security can only come when Hamas is dismantled.

Yet in their official response, Hamas redefines the deal. They say they will “release Israeli hostages … according to the exchange formula contained in President Trump’s proposal, with the necessary field conditions.” Meaning that they agree to the numbers of hostages and terrorist prisoners to be exchanged. As for those “necessary field conditions,” they are undefined — leaving room for negotiations and delays.

Trump’s plan demands that all hostages (living and dead) be freed within 72 hours of Israel’s public acceptance. Israel accepted the plan early in the week. Yet Hamas waited days and then inserted conditions. Among them: hostage release only after Israel’s full withdrawal from Gaza, as stated by senior Hamas figure Musa Abu Marzouk on Al Jazeera on Friday.

That demand is incompatible with the Trump framework. The plan does not call for an immediate Israeli exit; instead, it ties withdrawal to security milestones. Israel would withdraw gradually as a new International Stabilization Force (ISF) assumes control, leaving a final perimeter until stability is assured.

Here is the crucial point: the ISF has not even begun to be formed. No members have been named, no command structure agreed upon, no deployment timeline established. In other words, the security mechanism that is supposed to replace the IDF’s presence does not yet exist. Meaning that it will be months, at least, until the IDF surrenders security control of any of Gaza it currently holds. Any suggestion that Israel withdraw beyond the bare minimum needed to facilitate the release of hostages is not only premature — it contradicts the plain text and intent of Trump’s plan.

Clause Six of Trump’s proposal offers Hamas a stark choice: disarm and commit to peaceful coexistence, or leave Gaza under safe passage. Either way, Gaza must become demilitarized. But Hamas leaders have publicly rejected that premise.

Now the real test lies with Israel, the U.S., and Arab guarantors. They must refuse to renegotiate the essential terms — or risk this deal becoming yet another temporary ceasefire in disguise. There must be clarity: no loopholes, no language that allows Hamas to remain armed or in control.

Egypt, Jordan, and the Gulf states are especially critical. They have influence over Hamas. If they genuinely intend Gaza’s normalization and peace, they must enforce — not water down — the terms. They must insist Hamas release all hostages, lay down all weapons, and depart power.

The negotiation is not with Hamas as an equal partner. It is a demand for surrender written in diplomatic language. If we treat Hamas’s conditional “yes” as a breakthrough, we will find ourselves back at war again.

Israel 365 News
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Are Some Prayers An Exercise In Futility?

I still have a desk job and a little depressed too. I did used to spend a lot of time with video games but lost interest and ran out of energy for it eventually, I think you just grow out of it. I think some if not with video games are obsessed with other silly and probably more expensive hobbies.

That's why I'm a little surprised that mid-aged men would still be hooked to video games

We used to play a bingo game together and my mother joined in and it was fun. My daughter and I were on a team and the competitions were fierce. But it was evident by the level of time and spending the app was monopolizing people’s lives. The spending was out of hand and well into the thousands and I remembered a quote Yuval Harari made at WEF that encouraged me to quit.

He acknowledged their purpose was distraction and a method for killing time for useless people. And while that’s horrible to say he was telling the truth and I saw the same in financial circles. I told my daughter we’re supposed to invest in these tools not partake and we stopped.

I’m not opposed to board or card games or video to some degree within reason. An hour or so of play is fine. But when you’re losing most of the day that’s a problem.

~bella
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What's on your mind? Friendship Court edition.

I finally had a chance to work on my personal curriculum yesterday and I’m finalizing it and making adjustments. It’s a recent trend designed for edifying pursuits that improve our knowledge and person. Unlike previous iterations it isn’t dominated by aesthetics or Herculean tasks (which have their place) and the likelihood of continuance is great. I’ve included a couple of videos if you want to learn more or try it yourself.

I’m using a seasonal approach and a notion template to keep track of things. It isn’t perfect and I’ll probably buy one instead. But for the moment it’ll do. As for the rest, the sky’s the limit. You can focus on anything and grouping them in categories is easiest. I have four at the moment but six is probably best and I’ll add them tomorrow. The activities you have in mind are distributed to the groups with resources in tow and a schedule follows.

The neat thing about this is the reemergence of stimulating discourse that doesn’t involve politics, religion or debates. Not that they’re bad but they’ve become a source of contention in this space and it’s nice to see people focusing on other subjects. I look forward to reading more and challenging myself. The weather is cooling and I enjoy Russian novels in that setting and Dickens in the winter.

I’m reminded of the scene in Pride and Prejudice where Bingley is chided for his lack of discrimination on accomplished women and his sister corrects him. We don’t have a similar standard today but renaissance women are on the rise and accepting the mantle. I expect we’ll see a rekindling of cafe society and the intelligentsia. We’ve been on this trajectory for a while and we’ve found our sweet spot.

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Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

I have heard something similar, that those who seem to get saved and then turn away were never truly saved in the first place
Hello @BBLEE, that seems to be true according to the Bible. Along with three of the four kinds of "soils" in Matthew 13, there is this,

1 John 2
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

And @Clare73 has already shared the following passage.

Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I ~NEVER~ knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS
God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - there are other verses/passages too, of course. A couple of Chapters in the Book of Hebrews come quickly to mind.
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Sen. Tom Cotton seeks to ban light sentences for trans criminals, kick men out of women’s prisons

A U.S. senator has introduced legislation banning judges from considering an inmate’s self-declared gender identity when determining prison sentences and prohibiting trans-identified men from being housed in women’s prisons amid outrage over a light sentence given to a man who now claims to identify as female, after he attempted to assassinate U.S. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., introduced the Preventing Violence Against Female Inmates Act on Wednesday. The legislation would prohibit the Bureau of Prisons from putting female inmates in danger by housing trans-identified male inmates in women's correctional facilities and would withhold federal funds from states that fail to comply.

“Prisoners should be placed based on their biological sex, not on what they choose to ‘identify’ as,” Cotton said in a statement published Wednesday. “Documented cases prove that men — including men who ‘identify’ as women — in women’s prisons put female inmates at increased risk of sexual assault. My bill decreases the risk for women by ensuring men and women are separated in federal prison.”

Continued below.
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram

The law, the commandments, and Christians.

A person of faith certainly must desire to fulfill the law but Jesus railed against law-abiders who obeyed for other, legalistic, reasons, such as the Pharisees who He called whitewashed tombs, clean on the outside while filthy on the inside in Matt 23, or like Paul in Phil 3 calling the righteousness he excelled at as a Pharisee garbage. Grace must precede and accompany and compel everything regarding this matter.

Otherwise, what do you consider the difference between the old and new covenants to be? What did Jesus accomplish? What is reconciliation between man and God all about? Why was Paul so excited about the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith, not the law, in Phil 3:9?
The Hebrew word "yada" refer to intimate relationships/knowledge gained through experience such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus and embodying His likeness through experiencing being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) God, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life.

The problem is that someone can go through the outward motions of obeying God's law while neglecting to be a doer of the character traits of God that it was graciously given in order to teach us how to embody and thus neglecting to know God and Jesus. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. Jesus saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them does not leave room to interpret Philippians 3:8-9 as saying that God's law is rubbish and we just need to focus on knowing Christ instead. Rather, Paul has been obeying God's law, but not while being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law and that is what he counted as rubbish.

Character traits are not earned as the result of our works, but rather they are embodied through our works, so God's law was not given as a way to earn righteousness or God's other character traits, but as instructions for how to embody them. We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so everyone who is a doer of the same works as James believes in Jesus. In other words, the way to believe in God is by walking in His way. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are embodying God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. This is exact the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and it by this faith alone that we attain righteousness and the other character traits of God.

The difference between the the Mosaic and New Covenant is that the New is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6), but it still involves following God's law (Hebrews 8:10). The way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Matthew 4:15-23, Titus 2:14). The reconciliation between God and man is about embodying His likeness through being a doer of His characters traits.
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The Schumer Shutdown

No, it did not need to happen this way - it could have happened in November when it was originally scheduled and agreed upon - hmmm.. why the need to change? I wonder.
Wait, wait.... are you claiming that the GOP agreed to extend the ACA subsidies last November, well before the so-called Big Beautiful Bill passed? Cool. Could you please provide documentation on that, so I can save it and frame it for posterity?

-- A2SG, unless you meant something else...your post wasn't exactly clear.....
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