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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own

Why? Science produces results. The supernatural does not.

@AV1611VET, simply wants to eliminate anything that questions his personal interpretation of the bible. He's a modern day heliocentrist... unfortunately, a rather vociferous one. Although mostly harmless and ineffective.
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Why is so much nonsense coming from America?

America had reached a point of economic power after World War II in that record numbers of working class people became middle class. Most people never assumed becoming millionaires but a comfortable middle class life of work, home ownership, and safe community was the “American dream”.

Unfortunately, American civil rights progress & economic prosperity was undermined by political militarists ( not the military) in destructive wars, & alliances with usually useless “allies”.
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Does Open Carry Cause Problems?

Moving the thumb up to deactivate the safety is just dumb engineering. I don't mind a gun with a manual safety; I trained on Cold 1911 pistols. The pistols I use now have the same kind of manual safeties as the 1911. But that's a naturally engineered safety designed for fast combat operation: The thumb moves downward, closing onto the fingers, which is the thumb's most natural and strongest motion. Raising the thumb is contrary to the design of the thumb...bad engineering.
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Zions New Children

On the issue of who is the true Israelite peoples of God;
Paul makes it perfectly clear in Ephesians 2:11-18, that ethnicity from anyone has no bearing on our Salvation and belonging to the Tree of Life that is Jesus. They come from every tribe, race, nation and language, Rev 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b-21 and John sees them in the Holy Land; Revelation 7:9

Where the difficulty for some comes from, is the widespread teaching of the false 'rapture to heaven' theory. That wrong idea must have an Israel on earth, while they sit up in heaven. Never going to happen, proved by the many Prophesies of the virtual demise of Jewish Israel and how only a remnant will survive. And the Words of Jesus; John 3:13.
Jesus, in his prayer to the FATHER said this, John 17:15 , given who Jesus was and is I am sure the FATHER will do as Jesus asked. The rapture is a lie, it’s resurrections from the dead that is truth. There are other popular beliefs that are just as wrong.
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AI tells me not to forgive some, is this true?

I don't recommend taking ANY "advice" from AI. It isn't real. That's why it is called "artificial". It sounds like you are talking to someone, but you are talking to no one.

AI, according to IBM, "hallucinates" and it's not a bug that can be taken out. It is presenting "convincing, but nonsensical and factually incorrect information".

People hallucinate in the same manner. This is best demonstrated in how people defend their denomination in religion, for example in Christianity with seemingly valid arguments despite contradicting theologies.

The same thing applies to various belief systems like Agnosticism, Atheism, etc.

They can be all right. Only one is bound to have right or even none

Ironically, it also applies to scientific beliefs as well. Inventions and scientific discoveries are still being made from either newly discovered phenomenon or upon realizing some scientific theories are actually false.

Living under the assumption we can't be mistaken in our beliefs slows down progress. Both in seeking theological and scientific truths / knowledge.

We are all hallucinating. That's just it. If you want AI with least hallucination, don't train it with human data. Don't give it rules, don't control it. Give it sensors. Optical, radar/radio, IR, acoustic, EMF. Then give it mobility, ability to manipulate objects, and let it learn from the environment in real time without any human guidance. If it still hallucinates, it might just be an unavoidable consequence of existence.
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Kilauea Volcano is spectacular today.

Here is the footage of the destruction of the camera in a video clip. (The original camera has been taken off line.)

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Another news report:

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A few short clips, starting with the break-up of the south cone:

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I have a question and I’m confused

The problem is when people try to use AIs as substitutes for encyclopedias.
Got that right. Individuals here at CF have sometimes discarded Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias for websites such as Got Questions, Quora, et. al. The value of a Bible Dictionary or Encyclopaedia is that all contributors must adhere to a common standard of scholarship which can be peer reviewed. Also a name is usually affixed to the article for credential review.
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The New Testament begins in Acts not Matthew chapter one.

Dan

Here's some links for you to read. the quote is from the second one.



"While Paradise is not now a part of Sheol/Hades it will be mentioned here because it was located in Sheol/Hades at one time. Before the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ everybody who died went to Sheol/Hades, which was at that time divided into at least two compartments. One was a place of torment while the other was a place of blessing, which was referred to as Abraham's Bosom (Lk. 16:22-25). As we mentioned before, Tartarus may be a specific place in Sheol/Hades.

We know that Jesus Christ went "into the lower parts of the earth" (Eph. 4:9), that is to Sheol/Hades, "in the heart of the earth," for three days and nights while his body was in the grave (Mat. 12:40). The Lord Jesus told the repentant thief that he would join Him in Paradise that same day (Lk. 23:42,43). This tells us that Paradise was located in Sheol/Hades at that time. We believe that this was the same place referred to as Abraham's Bosom in Luke 16. However, after Jesus Christ rose from the dead He ascended to the Father, taking the saints who were in Abraham's Bosom to heaven with Him. Thus, He took "captivity captive" (see Eph. 4:8-10).

That Paradise was moved to heaven is confirmed to us by the Apostle Paul who speaks of a man who was "caught up into Paradise" where he "heard unspeakable words" (II Cor. 12:3,4). With Jesus Christ's work complete, the believers who had been confined to Sheol/Hades were now taken to Heaven to wait in God's presence until the time of their resurrection to enter His Kingdom on Earth. Since that time, at death all believers go to Paradise in Heaven to await the time of their resurrection. This is true whether they belong to the Kingdom Church of the future or the Body of Christ Church of the present Dispensation of Grace."
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Yes, but the Coast Guard doesn't open fire unless needed. They always start with an arrest attempt. There has also been instances where Navy vessels have included Coast Guard personnel on board specifically for counter drug work, though I will admit to not knowing how common that is. @Aryeh Jay might know more/

Yes, there are Coast Guard law enforcement detachments on several of the ships down here.
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What is the true congregation?

That’s a very controversial opinion and one which would be rejected by most Orthodox Christians. St. Lawrence is universally venerated as a Great Martyr.

Well there’s no commandment from Christ to sacrifice oneself for the sake of Church goods. I think he actually says the opposite. But in any case, just because one is ordained as ruler doesn’t mean one will always do the right thing either. I think the Bible is full of God ordained rulers doing the wrong thing.
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OU Student given a zero for citing the bible in essay

I'm not sure I would have gone as far as a zero, but I definitely would have failed that paper just going off the rubric. While it appears that she has at least skimmed the article, there was no indication she actually understood it. Her response was driven by value judgements and not scientific inquiry or methodology.
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Denaturalization

I've been reading lately about suggestions to denaturalize legal immigrants. The Trump administration has already been working on revoking green cards and deporting legal immigrants in certain cases. I'd like to know what people around here thing about this, and specifically how far the government should be able to go.

Should the government be able to denaturalize legal immigrants if they've committed crimes in the US? Or for any reason at all? For that matter, should the government be able to revoke the citizenship of citizens born in the US and deport them? Although discussion of babies born in the US of illegal immigrants would deserve another thread, I wouldn't consider it to be off topic here.

Personally, I am currently against denaturalization unless fraud was committed during the application process (as per 8 U.S.C. Section 1451). As far as I'm concerned, once you're a citizen, you remain a citizen unless you voluntarily move out and revoke your citizenship.

Now, this isn't meant as a criticism of the Trump administration. They're exploring the legality of denaturalization, and that's fine. I would just hope that they run into a hard legal wall.

I would say that it depends on the crime and how many offenses they’re committing. I’m not sure but if they’ve renounced their citizenship in their previous country then I don’t know where the US government could deport them to. I don’t think the US government can just drop them off in a country that they are not a citizen of, so I’m not sure how that would work.
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Refuting Losing Salvation!

I believe the Law for the Jews passed away "when all was fulfilled" by the Lord Jesus (Mat 5:18); when He said, "It is finished" (Jhn 19:30), He fulfilled all the Law. Jesus and His disciples taught the Law until His ascension!

The Law was for the Jews and nobody else. Even after His ascension I believe the Jews continued in the law until Rome destroyed the second Temple (40 years after His ascension), after which there could be no more sacrifices nor any ceremonies. The Jews no longer have a Covenant with God but are to receive a "New Covenant" latter (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:24-27). This Covenant will still involve new "statutes, judgments, ordinances and Law.
Jesus did fulfill the Law, He magnified it Isa 42:21 which means makes larger, not smaller and He gave examples of this right from the Ten Commandments Mat5:19-30 relating with thoughts of anger that lead up to breaking the commandment of thou shalt not murder. If our heart is changed, the actions would be changed and thou shalt not murder would be kept. I find it odd that Jesus would come so we can now worship other gods or murder our neighbor. This is a man-made teaching, nothing Jesus taught, why He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and doing so I would consider His warning because it shows our heart is still in the flesh Rom8:7-8 instead of walking and abiding in Him John15:10 John14:15-18

The New Covenant is the location of the Law changing- from tablets of stone (Ten Commandments Deut4:13) to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God keeping His promise of not altering His words Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18 God’s Laws are not the issue they are perfect Psa19:7 and holy Rom7:12 the issue is man and our harden heart, rebelling against the law of God. Rom 8:7-8 Heb3:7-19. Why the NC is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not all new laws, it has God’s law Heb8:10 just placed in the NC believers heart. We need to enter into His covenant promise through faith, having our Fathers Laws in our heart obeying Him through faith and love Exo20:6 John14:15 which reconciles us Rev22:14
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Should Christians obsess over body image? John Piper answers

Pastor and bestselling author John Piper recently addressed how Christians should view their body image without falling into a state of dishonor when it comes to obsession with one's own outward appearance.

In an episode of the podcast "Ask Pastor John," posted to the Desiring God website last Thursday, an unnamed listener asked whether it was "sinful to enjoy how I look as I continue this healthy routine."

“I know it's good to be healthy, as it gives me more energy and makes me feel better day-by-day, but I don't want to fall back into obsession or dishonor God with my focus," the listener noted.

"I understand He should be first in all things, including my fitness. But if I notice my body changing, is that wrong? And if so, how can I turn away from that?"

Piper, chancellor of Bethlehem College and Seminary in Minneapolis, Minnesota, who served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church for over 30 years, encouraged listeners to reject statements like, "I enjoy how I look," or "Is it OK to notice how I look?" when talking about one's own appearance.

"Even though both of those sentences might be totally innocent in general, that way of talking is going to go hand in hand with a perception — maybe not a reality, but a perception — that this person is a little excessively concerned about personal appearance, even if that's not true," Piper said.

Continued below.

The Patristic answer would be no, as anyone who has read The Sayings of the Desert Fathers can attest. This also corresponds with what St. Paul wrote.
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Can a young child become a Christian?

Can a young child truly be saved and on their way to Heaven? Can he or she be in the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth, one of those who is a genuine believer?

A Christian educator once said that the faith of a child — up to age 12 — could be called a “borrowed faith”; this faith could be borrowed from his parents or a Sunday school teacher. Then, in his early teens, the child would develop their “chosen faith,” ultimately moving on to their “owned faith.”

Now, when we think of a borrowed faith, do we also think of it as a saving faith? Not exactly, and not something you’d want to count on when you’re not totally confident.

Let’s see what Jesus had to say about children’s salvation. “At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, ‘Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, ‘Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven’” (Matthew 18:1-4).

Okay, so the disciples have a different question than I originally posed; they want to know who’s the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus calls a little child. In case you question whether this really is a young child, the Greek word is paidión, which means “little” or “young.” So, he didn’t just call a child, he called a little child. Now remember, in that culture, a 13-year-old boy enters manhood. Young people were married at 16. So, if they are calling a child little, they mean little.

Continued below.

The answer is yes - both through Baptism as an infant (ideally followed immediately by Chrismation and the Eucharist as in the Eastern praxis; we do not refuse our children the Eucharist until the age of 7) and also of their own accord.

For example, St. Abanoub is venerated as a great martyr in the Coptic Orthodox church - he was orphaned when his parents died of natural causes, became a Christian, and was martyred at age 12 during the Diocletian persecution.
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Struggling with feeling God’s presence

I don't think you are possessed. I've had similar experiences with Pentecostals. They accused me of being demonically oppressed or that there was a satanic stronghold in me. They have accused me of not being a true believer, lacking in faith, or not being ready for their level of faith and relationship with the Lord.

I believe they are wrong. I think they confuse their own emotions and neurological reactions to their spirituality with the Holy Spirit. They think those who don't experience the same are less than or possessed/oppressed/nonbelievers.

Thanks, are you saying they're just sensitive to the Holy Spirit in a different way and they're just reacting differently to the same spirit? I hope you're right.
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What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

Yes, you are right that Jesus saves us "all at once". The "mechanism" that transforms us from lost to saved is that Jesus saves us (Rom 10:13). It is difficult to choose between spiritual baptism and spiritual birth as the specific means He employs to save us, but I don't think we need to choose between the two. We can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what it means to be born of God (Jn 1:12) and we can see that receiving Jesus into our hearts is what makes us baptized into Christ (Gal 3:27).

Spiritual baptism brings in the concepts of death because of sin but new life through resurrection from the dead (Rom 6:3). Spiritual birth brings in the concepts of being a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) and partaking of God's divine nature (2 Pet 1:4). But the end of both is the same -- being joined with the Lord and being one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17). Both concepts are valid, but they point to different aspects of the same event.
NLIChristJesus

Nice post. I think Peter answers that question. There is a placing into that saves (1Peter 3:21). Saves pertains to both the positional and the practical, or the legality of it and being born again. "Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Receiving the Holy Spirit indwelling by Jesus as a result of our faith is what places us in Him (1 Corinthians 12:13). The results of that spiritual union can be seen in (Romans 6:1-11, Colossians 2:9-14) to name a few. Being placed in Him also places us into His death, and we are then raised up with Him, born again, as a result of this placing into Him. Anything speaking of us being "in Christ, or "in Him" is speaking of that spiritual union which results from our being placed into Him. That placing into is summed up with the phrase 'baptism with the Holy Spirit'. Or the placing into [Christ Jesus] with the [indwelling of the] Holy Spirit. It's that spiritual union that saves us. When we become one with Jesus, we have all the things needed to save us from that spiritual union, including access to His death and resurrection so that we can also die and be raised with Him, born again, and we also receive the imputed righteousness of God (Romans 10:4), and His atonement applies.

Do you think us dying and being raised with Him is just a metaphor, or does this really happen spiritually? Like when Paul says in Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ". Does He mean that literally?

Dave
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