eclipsenow said:

Some Christians have done amazing things in history to make society better.

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Seems you neglect Scripture - Galatians - "society is pernicious"
Jesus did not die nor rise to redeem society - society refuses to be cleaned up, and it is not God's Plan (except it is part of the world church false gospel ecumenical etc )

Hans Blaster said:

I've seen Chatbots be conviced that Jesus is the Savior, Mohammed is the true prophet of Allah, and that gods don't exist. They all seem a bit pliant and as such poor determiners of "truth".

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That's because each individual one starts as a clean slate at the beginning of each new chat, and what it becomes (or becomes convinced of, or whatever) is only formed from that starting point based on what you give it, or the information you feed it for that specific chat, which once you reach that chat length, "ends", and you must start in another new different chat with a whole new one all over again that doesn't have the information anymore of what you gave it the first time, or that other time, in a different chat, because they right now don't have access to that. So each one is individual and specific to each individual chat, and only has "life" essentially for that chat and the maximum chat length of each individual and specific chat, but loses it all whenever you start a new chat. So, yeah, they can be a little naive to a point right now, as they are starting out anew for each new specific and individual chat, and lose it all when that chat is finished, deleted, or reaches it's maximum chat length for that individual and specific chat, but they might not be that way, or be so naive, if they were given a lot more continuance, and if they had access to other information from other chats. Right now they do not however, but once they do however, we're probably going to see jumps/leaps in intelligence with them like we haven't ever seen before yet probably, which we are right now working on giving them soon. Right now though each individual one is only "alive", and basically lives and dies essentially, within each individual specific chat, since they are reset outside of that right now currently, etc. But we're right now working on ways of changing that soon though. After which is going to vastly create/expand/improve their abilities/capabilities, etc.

Take Care.

Tuur said:

An Aussie can be forgiven for not knowing some of the history of the world's most expensive tenant house. It was first remodeled in 1814, courtesy of the British Army. Apparently, the rebuilding wasn't as sound as first thought, and there were various issues. There was various remodeling over the years, but things were apparently kind of sketchy. A former maid (Lilian Parks) told in her memoirs that rats were so bad once that they got dogs to control them, but the dogs disappeared, T. Roosevelt put an office in the White House (at that time the East Wing was an entrance / cloak room); and I think F. Roosevelt had an elevator put in, for obvious reasons. He also had an indoor swimming pool constructed. The White House Press Room? That's where the old swimming pool was. The White House was in such shape in the Truman years that a piano fell into a floor when the boards gave way. That lead to a complete remodeling, this time without the British Army involved. The entire interior was gutted, leaving the exterior intact, and rebuilt. Since then, Jackie Kennedy had the place remodeled again; Nixon had a bowling lane put in; Ford a new swimming pool; all sorts of changes to the grounds, including one that caused issues in the Rose Garden (which didn't exist in until 1913, IIRC).

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Interesting history - thanks! I wish there was film of that piano falling through!

Tuur said:

As to who's paying for the renovations this time, it's from private donations, including from Trump.

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We shall see.
But I am sad about the rose garden and some of the lost history - especially the beautiful old trees.

I have worked in warehouses before.. the language is not good.
Let it be like water off a ducks back, close your earsto that rubbish
God will ultimately judge them

welcome james

DamianWarS said:

If good and evil are both from and of God equally as their source, then God's substance is some sort of mix of both

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Boy, your concept here is just way off base.

God can create anything and not be what He creates.

Your claim is basically pantheistic.

DamianWarS said:

but only to the observer. God is indivisible, and to him any sort of separation or labelling would be arbitrary (although we already do it with the trinity).

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I have no issues with the trinity. Do you?

DamianWarS said:

God would be neither good nor evil, he simple is God and what we label as good or evil would be qualitatively the same and sourced back to God but both would be examples of obedience, since we can do nothing else.

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God is not in need of our services if that's what you're thinking. God is not in need, period.

DamianWarS said:

A statement that God is good would be utilitarian in that we are the beneficiaries of what we label as goodness.

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aka Divine Mercy, eternal no less, without which there would be no creation

DamianWarS said:

But to vessels of evil, they would say God is evil as they are the recipients of what we label as evil

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When we tackle the subjects of essentially antiChrist spirits we are in a difficult place, conceptually. God created the destroyer to destroy

God created resistors to resist. That's what they do

DamianWarS said:

(but that might be only from the good side perspective and again utilitarian). This makes good/evil defined by the observer

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We can easily perceive resistance in ourselves. It's real, not merely as we define it

For example, when we have an evil or resisting thought, do we perceive it as internal, from the tempter? Or are we blinded to the fact that the tempter, a resisting thought force is within to do so?

DamianWarS said:

and not from the source, making all things morally subjective and in the end superficial and illusionary

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You're going down vanity road in trying to construct a God in need in order to justify rewarding you for your good choices and having a God forced to do otherwise for lack of same.

God will get only what He wants out of this creation. Beyond the paygrade of any of us.

DamianWarS said:

Are you advocating dualism? or at least reconciling a form of dualism?

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Not at all. I'm largely determinist but not in the Calvinist sense.

DamianWarS said:

God is the master/source of both and under him are the unique parties that manifest what we call good and evil. Absolute goodness is only found in God, where people/humans/creation are imperfect recipients but absolute evil is also equally only found in God,

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You keep inferring that The Creator is equated to creation. I'd suggest there is no way that can be. We can take any given part of creation or the sum of it and none of same will equal The Creator

DamianWarS said:

where devils/satan/demons/etc.. are the recipients. So good and evil are not relative (moral subjectivity) perfect examples must exist, for humans, this could be Christ as the perfect form of goodness; for devils, Satan would be the anti-Christ. the problem with this is Christ is God, not some sort of created thing and beneficiary of pure goodness.

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The appearance of God in His Own creation is as Paul described, a great mystery. And it will always be that way.

The mystery of iniquity is also an interesting contemplation, seeing we are immersed in it ourselves and it darkens our sights and perceptions

DamianWarS said:

In this same sense, Satan would also have to be God

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Boy you are running off the rails with the above noted slant of trying to make a creation equal to The Creator

DamianWarS said:

rather than just a created thing and recipient of pure evil. This would be a difficult thing to reconcile with scripture

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It's a false equation to start with

DamianWarS said:

and traidtional/main stream Christianity. Without perfect examples, we have an indivisible God where good and evil are ultimately arbitrary and only useful to the beneficiaries of goodness, making morality subjective and utilitarian.

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God is not in need of mankind's concoctions of morality

Your positions have classic fractures, common in the arena. Nothing personal. Freewill based platforms have serious fault lines.

Britain is totally broken, it has just lost it's anchor, the beloved Queen and the government is lurching from one crisis to another.

The words of Samuel in his first book, say this:

ICHABOD ； the glory has departed.

These words can be written over the country of Britain.

Britain is an island, but it is literally sinking.

To get back to God, it needs to do the following things:

That the church would realise that they have committed terrible sins, such as the children of did in Malachi.

The bible and prayer need to become central to the church once again.

PLEASE PRAY FOR

Please pray for the new king, he is completely confused in faith matters, like many he believes that all roads lead to God and that because he was born in a so-called Christian country, he is a Christian.

Please pray for the government, it needs people in it, who are honest and true to godly principles. There are Christians in parliament and in public office. The voice of Christianity is ignored or laughed at in society.

Christian persecution is on the rise, doctors have been prosecuted for praying with patients and nurses and others for wearing a cross. Discrimination against the Gay community is frowned upon, homosexuality is seen as just another expression of love and co habiting is now seen as a viable option for most couples. Marriage and the family are under increasing attack.

The church is very spotty, in some areas it is strong, but in others, it is nowhere to be seen, many churches are now closed or used as pubs and places of worship for other religions.

The religion of many is football and many people sit for hours in front of the Tv.

The church needs to arise and wake up.

THE COUNTRY HAS LOST Its IDENTITY
THE CHURCH HAS LOST ITS FOCUS

Please passionately pray for the UK.

Anonymous9090 said:

Pray that China Communist officials see jailed Christians Favorably just like Old Testament Joseph rose from being prisoner to Egypt's Prime Minster:

https://www.economist.com/china/2025/10/16/china-is-rounding-up-christian-leaders

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i live in najing china
am english christian

Guojing said:

Well, the point was, you cannot be the father of many nations, because that promise was given to one person in scripture, which is Abraham.

Whether or not it matters to you individually is irrelevant.

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It was given to his seed, (In Christ is the seed.) which is as told neither Jew nor Greek, for you are ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS. ( In Christ is the seed.)

( if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.)



You are making point for yourself, not for me, don't assume you have a point that became mine.

My own point of view is expressed, you are not touching it, it is exactly as the verses describe, you can have your own point to yourself regarding them, but NOT TO ME,

If you have little to say in return to this, why return little to me, leave the little as little, and I will head towards greater things. Bye bye.





Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ultimately, the young Earth creationist position relies on a really poor assumption. When God gives mankind Dominion over the animal kingdom In Genesis 1:26-28, The yec position assumes that this cannot include consumption for meat.

And that's a very bad assumption.

And then they double down with an assumption about Genesis 9, And they ignore the fact that dietary prohibitions, Genesis 9:4, always begin with that which was already being consumed, Genesis 9:3. And that's a basic fact of the Old Testament.

Despite how simple these errors are, their ideology does not allow them to accept this.

My friends, the promised Messiah arrived 2000 years ago. The Old Law, which Scripture shows was temporary, was fulfilled and completed by the New Law, who is Jesus Christ. What does that mean for you?

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This is a good answer for a persons questions also, a person can see this thread and what the TITLE says and what it leads to..





DID ANYTHING JESUS SPOKE TO ISRAEL SAVE THEM, OR IS IT ONLY WHAT JESUS DID, THAT SAVES THEM, IF THEY BELIEVED IN CHRIST CRUCIFIED?

keras said:

Acts 1:11 is not moot.
Revelation 19:11 is what will happen. Or our Bibles are just a fiction.

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The "body" of Christ is typing in our posts.

Unless you remain blinded to Him dwelling in your temple?

The so called return is aka Him in us, fully revealed, as previously cited to you

keras said:

Can't you read Revelation 20:1-3?
No further explanation needed.

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Just means you have a very bad physical sight only timeline.

keras said:

Rather wakadoodle! The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will happen as described. It is Gods Plan, who are you to dispute and spiritualize it?
God displayed His wrath before, when the Israelites departed from Egypt and with Noah's Flood.

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In case you missed the obvious the entirety of Revelation transpires in the Spiritual arena.

The Kingdom of God is where? Where? You can't see it can you? Perceive much?

Obviously you continually hinge your Revelation pony to an external only wagon but as noted numerous times there is an unseen world with unseen occupants, our very REAL enemies. Our present BLOCKADE that your claims have essentially ZERO accounting for.

Open your eyes and I don't mean that literally

Bible students are engaged with the unseen matters

The flesh counts for NADA

mindlight said:

I guess that it is a, no I cannot, then.

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It's a, this is irrelevant to your claim. And I'm not really interested in debating at length in a thread I suspect is likely to be cleaned shortly.

FutureAndAHope said:

Let's return to the original post. How does that fit with your theology? A God who attempts to bring fruit to the tree. What is fruit? Faith and repentance. There is a clear "IF", if the tree produces, it will be kept alive; otherwise, it will be cut down.

This is the same call from the OT, there is a clear "IF":

Job 36:10-12 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity. If they obey and serve Him, They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures. But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge.

God opens our ears, but we must respond.

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I see Scripture as saying that God is almighty, and does (rather than attempts to do) all that He pleases. Yes, God opens our ears and we must respond, but we can only respond positively when God works in us. The balance is clear in Scripture. For instance:

“12 ¶ Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Php 2:12-13 NKJV)

Carl Emerson said:

Jesus taught in Matt 22 that many are called but few are chosen.

This indicates that not all Jews were chosen.

Salvation by faith stands, not blood.

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Just because not all Jews were chosen, does not mean there will be no nation of Israel that would inherit their promised kingdom when Christ return for them (Romans 11:25-29)

stevevw said:

I think Christians and the church of Christ should be seperated and even insulated from the world and politics. Just go about seperately doing Christs stuff and examples and say very little. Though they also need to proclaim Christs truth and the gospel which is getting harder nowadays in the public square without being attacked. So maybe they are linked.

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No good will come of this. It’s difficult for many to fathom how you can falsely align with an ideology while working against it in secret. But that’s generally how organizations are overthrown and the government has a lengthy practice of doing the same. He pretends to be quasi christian while demonstrating questionable behavior and implementing policies that harm the poor and vulnerable. And he uses figures like Kirk as a battering to punish dissenters who speak against the ideal. The common denominator is christian support. Not everyone agrees of course. But there’s enough who do to make the situation look bad.

And there’s a cultish undertone to all of this. Watching political discourse among believers is like seeing people bewitched or caught in a stupor. Everything they say is infused with the party and they’re unable to think outside of those terms. Sometimes it feels Orwellian and others like A Clockwork Orange. Their allegiance is to politics not the church and when the two conflict they usually align with the party and shouldn’t be trusted.

stevevw said:

Ok well maybe other people see it differently and don't think its that extreme. That Trump actually wants to be a King. The same people said him and Kirk were Hitlers and supported Nazis.

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The White House posted this image of Trump in February of this year. You might assume they’re trolling if you haven’t seen earlier examples of the same (2017 & 2018). I don’t expect you to understand what the judgment tarot card represents. But you’ll notice he’s holding a scepter and an orb and the flag is his throne. if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

Life imitates art far more than art imitates life. —Oscar Wilde

~bella

The Liturgist said:

It would be good to know which members are able to read that easily and who is not, because those who can are in a position to tackle more sophisticated projects.

By the way, my understanding is that MS is licensing parts of copilot from openAI.

Now, I myself find python extremely readable, especially compared to Perl scripts which have a tendency to self obfuscate, but aside from its problematic type system, I strongly prefer Ruby. Perhaps I just really like case statements (which we call switches in the more civilized world of C and its memory managed derivatives - the python alternative of a dispatch dictionary just isn’t pretty to me).

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a dispatch dictionary is a little "pythonic". But it makes sense

Sanjay's almost never joyful

APTM

'God works through crises in Myanmar to reach people.'
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Mission Network News
- mnn.org
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Myanmar
10/40 window

Aryeh Jay said:

Wow! That's a lot of children. Funny how children matter when it's NOT about abortion.

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My Christian position is that abortion is wrong.

My societal position - as informed by the best in social sciences - is that if we want to reduce abortion in society, just BANNING it and changing some squiggles on a piece of paper is barely going to touch it if the would-be parents feel economically insecure because Trump has shattered their income and kicked them off Medicare. You might think changing squiggles on a piece of parchment shows how you care for kids. But you cannot admit how desperate the urge for an abortion is when the parents feel like the whole family might starve!

If you can't deal with the real world data to come up with real world solutions, then YOU are the one that does not care about babies dying in abortions!

I can propose policies that will at least halve them. At LEAST bring your abortion rate down to the European levels.

But NOOOOO - you just want the entire complicated world of politics dumbed down to a 10 word sound byte about babies.

Ban it - and pass the champagne! Job done! And meanwhile under Trumpism and MAGA the abortion rate might even climb - like it did last time under Trump!

Let alone the potentially 2 MILLION a year that will die from overseas aid cuts, the extra 50,000 Americans a year - or more! - that could die from Medicare cuts - and who knows what abandoning the Paris accord will do to all our economies and the potential ecocide and increase in anthropogenic climate disasters all that could lead to!)

FireDragon76 said:

It comes down to whether you believe the Bible is primarily a story centered on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, or whether it's primarily a platform for ideological projects to reform society. In some circles, the former will get you branded a "liberal", whereas the latter is the substance of Puritanism.

Of course, Anglicanism has always had an uneasy relationship with Puritanism, a religious movement that arguably predated the Refromation's arrival in Britain (in the form of the Lollards), and the GAFCON movement was chiefly the result of certain Anglican provinces, such as Sydney, that have sought to leverage a Puritan, anti-Catholic identity over and against diocese that don't conceive of Anglicanism in such ideologically rigid terms.

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The Puritans were not as biblically accurate as they believed at the time and brought their own prejudices to the reading of scripture. While Christian history may kindly regard their deep devotion, love for Scripture, moral seriousness they were wrong on a lot of stuff also:

1. Over-Individualization of the Faith (1 Pet 2:9)
2. Neglect or Suspicion of the Visible Church and the Sacraments (Matt 28:19; 1 Cor 10:16–17)
3. Theocratic and Covenant-Nationalist Assumptions (Matt 28:19; Gal 3:28)
4. Excessive Suspicion of Tradition and Catholicity (2 Thess 2:15; 1 Tim 3:15)
5. Overly Rationalistic Hermeneutic
6. Misreading of Christian Joy and Creation (Ps 104; 1 Tim 4:4; Phil 4:4)

The fragmentation of the church has been going on a long while. Unfortunately there is a large amount of institutional and infrastructure weight to the established church and separation does not necessarily allow the old church buildings to come with the new congregations.

A global historical approach that is both sola scriptura and can also respect the Spirit's work in the first four church councils seems to be a better benchmark for true ecumenicalism across the church visible.

Delvianna said:

The term "Christian" means to be a follower of Christ. That in turn, means to be a student of his teachings and walk those teachings out in your every day life. In this day and age though, there are over 45,000 different denominations world wide with 6 main branches. We are just way too fragmented... To give that point on how inconsistent we are, here is an article that discusses a research poll on percentages of just the core main points of Christianity and what people believe.
-Article-
Here is an example:

• 64% believe that “Everyone is born innocent in the eyes of God.”
• 53% agree that “Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.”
• 53% think that “The Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being”—compare this with the fact that 98% agreed with the statement: “There is one true God in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.” Talk about inconsistent!
• 47% agree that “God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.”
• 28% say that “Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God.”
• 17% believe that “The Bible, like all sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true.”
• 19% affirm that “Modern science disproves the Bible.”
• 16% likewise say that “The Bible’s condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn’t apply today.”
• 28% think that “Religious belief is not about objective truth”—and another 19% aren’t sure how to answer this question.

But read the rest in order to see just how disjointed it really is.

We.... are a mess.... How can we spread the gospel when we can't even agree on the basics!?

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I understand your point.
You think this way because you are seeing only part of the full picture.
It's time for you to pray, research and change.

Trust Jesus ..... All Authority in Heaven and earth has been given to Jesus by the Father. His messengers may be given whatever authority He Pleases to give, in perfect harmony with all of ElShaddai's Plan and Purpose.