Minister Monardo said:

The Question: Does the Church look for the coming of Elijah? Would he come to Israel, or to the remnant of Judah who remain in Iran?

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St. Elias did come, at the the Transfiguration on Mount Tabor, described in all three synoptic Gospels. St. Moses was also present.

This feast is regarded by Orthodox Christians as the replacement for Sukkot.

Always in His Presence said:

There is no rhetorical in scripture -

The verses are literal, not metaphorical.

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That’s simply not the case - St. Paul makes use of a vast array of skillful oratorial techniques, even referring to the ancient logical error of Epimenides Paradox in his epistle to St. Titus.

Rhetoric is not evil if used to promote truth; indeed Christ our True God employs skillful use of parable, a classic rhetorical technique of antiquity.

And then we have the amusing case of St. Elias the Prophet, one of four we know of holy enough to be taken up bodily into Heaven (the others being the Holy Prophets Enoch and Moses, and the Mother of God), together with Christ our God, who also has a body in His resurrection; the rest of those present existing pneumatically until the General Resurrection and the Life of the World to Come (although time might well be vastly different); in 1 Kings 18:27 St. Elias openly mocks the idolaters.

The use of rhetorical devices is not sinful when in service of the truth, and the reality is Christ and St. Paul are the two best known orators of antiquity, orators both in the sense of prayer and of rhetoric. Little of what Gaius Julius Caesar said is remembered; the speech of Marc Antony, ”Friends, Romans, Countrymen” is mostly a fabrication of Shakespeare, but the rhetoric of Christ our True God had staying power, because it expressed truth. Christ used Semitic rhetorical techniques such as fables and the provocative dialectic of the Hebrew people, ancient and modern, whereas St. Paul adapted his approach to reach Greeks and Greek-speaking Romans accustomed to a different style of rhetoric, and St. Luke the Evangelist, a Hellenized Jew, wrote with extreme elegance according to the norms of the Greek language.

Indeed many suspect that the Epistle to the Hebrews was penned by St. Luke working with St. Paul; ;most early church sources attribute Luke-Acts to a collaboration between the Evangelist and Apostle (likewise, the Gospel of St. Mark the Evangelist, who owned the great house with the Cenacle, which survives to this day by the way as a Syriac Orthodox monastery), is thought to have been guided by St. Peter; in both cases the Evangelists also being inspired by the Holy Spirit.

bèlla said:

Why would a wicked entity behave righteously unless it served their needs? You’re unable to devise an argument and I’m not putting you on the spot. NASA is unimportant for most. Whereas an agency involving food, housing, and similar musts would necessitate more engagement

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Just want to point out some things.

All the world shall marvel, whose names are not in the book of life, when they behold the beast that was and is not and yet is.

And he opened his mouth in blaspheme against God to blaspheme God's name God's tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:6

If anyone can declare just what that blaspheme is, and what it is that would be so marvelous, would that be of any value? If it could be stated what it is that would cause wonder, and therefore people having that info would therefore Not marvel and wonder, is that not salvation from the deceptions of the beast, and a road to eternal life, and even perhaps part of a message that leads some of the final saints to belief?

For I believe to be able to tell it all plainly: the beast will seem to die, and then seem to be healed by supposed aliens that come down and beam him up into their ship... something spectacular like that, related to supposed outerspace, is what it is, that will cause the world at large to literally marvel and wonder.

Those seeing words such as those, and/or understanding that the globe is a deception will hopefully think twice when it happens, and not marvel and wonder at the beasts deceptions.

As it is written, they that understand among the people shall instruct many, then afterwards the beast, that prideful king, arrives. Daniel 11:33-36

And that is why pointing out the deceptions from NASA is important, they dable in satanic end times deceptions. One believing them so much would be deceived by the coming beast and false prophet.

A Devil's Advocate said:

This is an interesting interpretation which I took time to think about. However, I don't get from the examples of scripture the same conclusion you have.
I don't think sinning less is unrealistic. It's just most people place the cart before the horse. They try to reduce sinful behavior in hopes of developing a stronger relationship with God. When it's your time and effort in getting to know more of God that leads to a reduction in sinful behavior.

In Romans 7:17-21, Paul is describing to us our two natures (our old and new nature). Being that we are created in the image of God, we have three unique components that make us human. We have the flesh, our soul, and a spirit. Our soul is what makes us.... well, us. It is who we are, our essence you might say. Our spirit is our connection to the divine. God is spirit and to connect with God requires that we must also have a spirit. Our spirit will always desire the things of God. And finally, the flesh. The part of us that is animated by the soul. Our flesh is where we get the desires of the flesh.

The desires of the flesh and of the spirit are the two natures Paul is describing. When we come into the world, we are spiritually dead, separated from God. There is no desire for the things of God. It is the desires of the flesh that rules us, and it is in the flesh that sin operates. When we are saved, when we receive spiritual life, we are then presented with the desires of the spirit which, as I mentioned, are for the things of God. This is the conflict Paul is describing in Romans 7. The flesh desires the things of the world while the spirit desires the things of God, and our soul is like....

"This is too much! I don't know which one to pick? Screw it! I'm just gonna go get drunk now." (Joke)

A conflict he did not have before being saved since he had no problem condemning in killing Christians. But a conflict we, who are saved will have the rest of our life. Why? Because the flesh is corrupted by sin, and will remain so until we are given a new body (flesh) free of the sinful nature. So yes, like you said we are all still guilty of sinning.

Your interpretation of a messenger in the flesh (adversary) is where I see things differently. In the parable that Jesus gave, it has been most commonly understood that Jesus was speaking of three examples where people aren't saved and one where they are saved. But it's actually the other way around, if you read it carefully. He is speaking of only one who isn't saved and three where they are saved, but each of the three reacting differently in their salvation.

In His first example where they hear the word and Satan immediately comes and takes it away, this is the person who doesn't receive the Word and therefore isn't saved. It is not that a messenger of Satan enters the flesh. The parable, found in Matthew 12:43-45 and Luke 11:24-26, as well as what John tells us in 1 John 4:4, indicates that a believer cannot have both the Spirit of God and Satan dwelling in them. Satan may be Influencing them, yes. But not dwelling in them.

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I would suggest you study the Patristic concept of the sinful passions, which incline us towards sin, passions such as lust, pride and gluttony. These passions can be tamed, which is why we fast and give alms in the Orthodox Church.

The most dangerous seems to be pride; a monk could struggle for years to overcome lust and gluttony, and then fall into prelest, spiritual delusion, by taking pride in his accomplishment. The solution to this is extreme humility and absolute love for God and for one’s neighbor, which represents the supreme rejection of self-love, which becomes the dangerous intoxicant.

One disturbing aspect of our contemporary culture is the idea of pride as a virtue. Gay pride parades are doubly sinful, firstly, because they embrace a mode of life St. Paul warns is dangerous, the lusting after strange flesh, and secondly, perhaps more dangerously, because they promote pride. To take pride in one’s sin is deeply dangerous according to the Fathers.

Welcome to CF!

I recommend reviewing the information pinned to the top of this subforum: One Bread, One Body - Catholic

You can also ask questions about Catholicism there. However, since you are not Catholic (yet) please use the [posting in fellowship] tag for all posts that are not questions, and do not get into a debate or object to anyone’s theology in that subforum. You are there to learn, not object. (More details about this policy can be found here: Statement of Faith - OBOB Statement of Purpose I strongly suggest reading it - it also contains Catholic information too.)

If you do have objections, concerns, or disagreements with any new Catholic theology you learn, please start a new thread here: Denomination Specific Theology When in doubt, play it safe.

Hopefully these resources will help you on your journey with your new faith.

What do you think caused the mud floods? I think that some of revelation has happened.

The repeated sevens are because the prophecy is being repeated, each seven, seals, trumpets, vials, giving different angles of the same overarching repeated prophecy. Chapter five tells us Jesus prevailed to open the seals, therefore the opening of them began when He ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father. Hitler was the climax of the red horse period of time, we are headed to the climax of the black horse time now, world wide economic collapse. From chapter 5 and 6 we get a clear timeline, and the trumpets and vials give information about different events that happen during the same timeline.

The globe lie serves to mask and muddy almost all the events in Revelation, and is the foundational lie of the beast, who will be speaking blaspheme about what is beyond the sky. Revelation 13:6

And so, some of revelation 8 has happened, causing the wipeout of some civilizations, and, the lie makers, have various lies and deceptions to try to hide the simple truth that revelation is and has been happening.

On the stink which pervades hell as I mentioned above -

St. Faustina, in her famous vision, described seven awful tortures of hell including:

The fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and, despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

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The mystics who have glimpsed hell report that hell stinks. It smells of sulfur–rotten eggs–death and decay. Furthermore, exorcists report that in encounters with demons there is often an unearthly and ungodly stench. Death stinks. Demons stink. The Devil Stinks. Sin stinks. Satan Stinks.

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Since it stinks, the souls in Hell obviously have some sort of sense of smell, despite being pure spirits.

It is written in the prophets, and they shall all be taught of God, every man therefore that has heard and has learned of the Father comes to me. John 6:45

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and earth, and some to honor and others to dishonor. If a man purge himself from dishonor he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and met for the masters use. 2 Timothy 2:20-21

How can a man cleanse his way? By taking heed unto the word of God. Psalm 119:9-10

God now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He has appointed, and has given assurance unto all mankind in that He rise Him from the dead. Acts 17:30-31

We have The Word of God written down for us in the Scriptures (Genesis to Revelation), and we have The Word living within us in the person of the Holy Spirit speaking biblical truth to our hearts, as well, reminding us of the teachings of Christ Jesus. The Spirit gives us guidance and direction in holy living and in who God wants us to be, and in what he has called us to do as his disciples. He gifts us with Spiritual gifts, and God assigns us our body parts (ministries) within the universal and local body of believers in Christ.

[Acts 2:14-18,42-47; Romans 12:1-8; 1 Corinthians 12:1-31; 1 Corinthians 14:1-5; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:1-16; Ephesians 5:15-21; Ephesians 6:10-20; Philippians 2:1-8; Colossians 3:12-16; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 10:23-25; James 5:19-20]

And the Scriptures teach us, not only how we are to live as followers of Christ, regarding our own walks of faith in obedience to our Lord, but they teach us our responsibilities within the body of Christ, as a whole, to the body of Christ. For we are to minister to one another on a daily basis, according to the Scriptures. But before we teach others, we need to be those who are walking the walk God has marked out for us. We must not be those who are deliberately and habitually walking in sin against our Lord.

And if The Word of God is richly dwelling (living) within us, this is not about us just putting the Scriptures to memory in our minds. But it means that we are living what the Word teaches us. The Word of God is what guides and directs us each day in what to do, and in how to think, and in what to say, for the glory and praise of God, and not for selfish gain. And this does not make us absolutely perfect in every respect, but it must mean that we are following our Lord in obedience, and we’re not living according to the flesh.

And then, as the body of Christ, we are to be teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. So this is not about sitting through a “worship service” singing songs someone else picked out for all of us to sing. But this is about us ministering to one another with such spiritual songs, i.e. the kinds of songs which literally do teach and admonish us in our walks of faith in obedience to the Lord, much like many of the old hymns which many are no longer singing, most of which I love to sing.

And if whatever we do, in word or deed, we are to do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, we are not to do so falsely and hypocritically. We are not to do or speak in his name what is contrary to who he is and to what he teaches us in how we are to live as his followers. For “in his name” has to do with “according to his character,” and “according to his will and purpose.” So what we do or say in his name must be according to the teachings of the Scriptures and not according to our own will and purpose and thinking.

Therefore, we must be diligent students of the Scriptures who study them in their appropriate biblical context, who compare Scripture with Scripture to make certain they agree, and who test whatever we are hearing from other sources against the truth of the Scriptures to make certain we are believing in and following the truth of God’s word and not the lies so popularized in today’s “Christian” culture. We must not rely on other humans to tell us the truth, but we must be those who study the Scriptures for ourselves.

And in all that we do in the name of Christ we should be giving thanks to the Lord for his goodness, for his mercy, for his compassion, and for his love for us in giving his life up for us and in rising from the dead so that, by faith in him, we can now die to sin and live to God and to his righteousness in walks of surrender to Christ, in obedience to his commands, and in holy living – all in the power and wisdom of God, and not of our own doing; not of our flesh. For we have so much to be thankful for, for the grace of God in our lives.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

My Sheep

Based off John 10:1-30 NIV
An Original Work / June 24, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

My sheep hear me. They know me.
They listen to my voice and obey.
I call them and lead them.
They know my voice, so they follow me.
They will never follow strangers.
They will run away from them.
The voice of a stranger they know not;
They do not follow him.

So, I tell you the truth that
I am the gate, so you enter in.
Whoever does enter
Will find forgiveness and will be saved.
Nonetheless whoever enters
Not by the gate; other way,
He is the thief and a robber.
Listen not, the sheep to him.

Oh, I am the Good Shepherd,
Who laid his own life down for the sheep.
I know them. They know me.
They will live with me eternally.
The thief only comes to steal and
Kill and to destroy the church.
I have come to give you life that
You may have it to the full…

They know my voice, so they follow me.

Login to view embedded media
In Word or Deed
An Original Work / November 25, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

eclipsenow said:

Just as one must learn ancient Greek in inner theological school, to understand revelation one has to understand how the ancient world used these apocalyptic symbols, which requires reading some of the other apocalyptic symbolism of the time.

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I did four years of Greek in Bible college. The text is clear, the beast will speak blaspheme about those in heaven. Those outside of the sky.

Dan1988 said:

If you reject all of the above passages of scripture, then I have no choice other than to conclude that you're not interested in the truth of the gospel and your aim is not to defend the gospel but it's to defend your own private opinion to save face

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Why does God command all men everywhere to repent? Acts 17:30-31

I'm not rejecting anything. I'm keeping it all together, for instance 2 Timothy 2:20-21 which directly addresses Romans 9. What of that passage?

And there's more.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me. John 12:32

And the whole idea that only some can be saved is fully refuted with simply just Acts 17:21-31 that is why I'll keep repeating it. It's not a matter of interpretation, Paul specifically says 'all men everywhere'.

So I'll ask again, why does God command all men everywhere to repent? Acts 17:30-31, you need to understand that if you give a different reason than Paul clearly gave, your wrong.

CoreyD said:

Your arguments do not make sense, and one can see that you are just rambling.
"to show that his stewardship was not voluntary"??? Really?

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Yes really. He wants the Corinthians to see that his ministry is not self‑chosen or self‑serving, but a divine commission. Most all theologians recognize that Paul is saying woe to me if I don't preach the Gospel. He was given a stewardship and necessity was laid upon him.

CoreyD said:

No, he is saying he can do it willingly, and yes, that's what he did.

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I think he did it willingly, I know I do. But that wasn't his point. I too have to preach the Gospel because the Love of others compels me. <-- GOD.

CoreyD said:

Holy spirit has nothing to do with making a decision, as shown by the fact that one can rebel against holy spirit, and do their own thing.

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"The mind set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot.” Resistance to the Spirit is the natural posture of fallen humanity. Resisting the Spirit (Acts 7:51) is possible, but that resistance is the carnal mind at work. "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." The carnal will is not a free will. John 8:32 --> “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

John 16:8 --> The Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Conviction is not suggestion; it is divine persuasion that bends the will. The Holy Spirit convicts me of sin by showing me when I'm not loving others as myself.

1 Corinthians 12:3.

Paul writes: Therefore, I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is cursed". and no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except in the Holy Spirit.

CoreyD said:

How can one continue a conversation with someone, who says they don't believe in free will, after opening works of academia and showing the person the word free will, and the meaning, and the person says, "I don't believe that, because I believe...? It is indeed similar to talking with someone who says they don't believe seas and oceans exist, simply because of their beliefs., and opening works of academia and showing that person that what they are denying is actually proven knowledge makes no difference to them.

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When I was four years old, we were coming back from church, and I asked my dad "what is free will?' He replied. "It means we make choices". I thought to myself, "Hmm, I knew that." .... That is, I knew I made choices everyday all day long. Believing in the free will you're talking about and my Dad talked about, isn't about believing in the word voluntary or willing, or unforced; it's about believing in a philosophical, theological concept.

That doesn't mean we're not in a battle of words. Basically, I'm just saying what you call free will, is the carnal will.
Resisting the Spirit (Acts 7:51) is possible, but that resistance is the carnal mind at work. The carnal will is not a free will. John 8:32 --> “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Acts 7:51​

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.​

That's why the free will I believe in is God's will. I must die so Christ may live in me. The dialogue of faith gradually eliminates the dialogue of the carnal will along with the free will concept based on choice. I'm saying that if you think in terms of faith/trust in God and in His Christ, you will come to see the ability to choose against God will die as we trust in Christ. That's why when we're baptized for the remission of sins we are baptized into his death.

If you would just acknowledge that scripture denotes a change from the carnal mind to the mind of Christ that happens through the work of the Holy Spirit, through faith and not by our choice, you would see that the free will of the carnal mindset is not the free will that Christ has.

• Romans 8:6–7 — “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God…” → Here Paul contrasts the carnal mind with the Spirit‑led mind. The Spirit replaces hostility with peace.
• 1 Corinthians 2:14–16 — “The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God… But we have the mind of Christ.” → The Spirit enables believers to grasp spiritual truth, giving them the “mind of Christ.”
• Romans 12:2 — “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind…” → Transformation of the mind is Spirit‑driven, aligning believers with God’s will.
• Philippians 2:5 — “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.” → The Spirit empowers believers to adopt Christ’s humility and obedience.
• 2 Corinthians 3:18 — “We all… are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.” → The Spirit actively transforms believers into Christ’s likeness.

CoreyD said:

What I am saying is true, isn't it.
Using faulty reasoning does not make language words and their usage, or vocabulary disappear.

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Yes, it's true, but your mistake is concluding my reasoning is faulty.

CoreyD said:

Earlier, you asked a user if they are well, because you said something repeatedly, and their response was as if you actually said nothing.
I posted those lexical works more than half a dozen times, I'm sure.
Did you not see "freewill" and "free will" scores of times? The word isn't written with invisible ink.
So, when you say free will does not exist, or you don't believe it, you have dismissed those work... I'm not confused.

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Yes, I saw them every time you posted them. Those words are greek and hebrew words meaning willing, voluntary. Like I said, they are adjectives, adverbs, sometimes verbs, but not the noun free will. So, for instance, let's take the word "willing", it means inclined or favorably disposed in mind, it doesn't mean all choices are voluntarily and I'm always willing. Likewise, when I say I have made a voluntary choice, it doesn't mean all my choices are voluntary choices. But particularly in the moral/immoral context, it's my contention that Love fulfills the law and it is love that causes us to act responsibly and care about how our actions affect others, not our ability to volunteer or not volunteer.

Lord, have mercy on your persecuted faithful!

Thank you, God. Hope my state does the same!

Yikes! Hope everything turns out ok!

PloverWing said:

I've heard sermons to this effect, but I don't buy it. It weakens the definitions of "god" and "worship" if we just mean "something I value" or "something of very high priority to me".

When I use the word "worship", it includes a sense of the sacred or holy or (to use Rudolf Otto's word) numinous. Financial success might be something a person values and pursues to a fault, but it's hard for me to imagine people seeing money as genuinely numinous. Reddit can be a tremendous time-thief ("Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread?", indeed), but, again, numinous?

By contrast, I think the idols mentioned in the Old Testament really were perceived as embodying spirit-beings, or maybe the numinous aspects of the sun, fertility, the earth, and so on. It's tempting to apply these OT passages to modern activities like shrewd financial investing, but most modern Americans aren't genuine polytheists in the way that the ancients were. They saw gods everywhere. Post-Enlightenment, many Americans see gods nowhere.

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Not to go off topic, but did you study theology academically or have an academic degree?

God bless

rjs330 said:

Yes there are schools that do.

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Perhaps in the US, but Hentenza and I was talking about swedish schools.

Do those schools have physicians on staff then? I would guess the right to prescribe medication is still limited to physicians even in the US.

I gave up the forums. Oh wait, I’m here! Ok, maybe tomorrow. As Augustine once put it, “Lord, grant me continence [self-control], but not quite yet.”

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

Most often MAGA fails to see that the US economy relies on two million immigrants annually.

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Then why do we need 20 million illegals?

Der Alte said:

Malachi 4:3-4 Refers only to a one time event in this world "in that day". It does not refer to eternal punishment

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Yes, during the day of the Lord the wicked are consumed away, annihilated. I believe that any due torture would be received in Hades for those who deserve torture, and then Hades itself is thrown into the lake of fire. As shown in my previous post, it is this world that becomes the lake of fire, everything in it consumes away into smoke, only the devil is described as being tormented forever.

And this thing do remember, that one day with the Lord is 1000 years and 1000 years one day. 'The day' of the Lord refers to the 1000 years.
At the beginning of it the armies gathered to fight Christ are reduced to dead burning bodies, and at the end of it, this current land sky and sea are consumed by fire.

Catholic Church - Christ the King.

Dan1988 said:

It's one thing to pluck verses of scripture out of their intended context and then apply your unbiblical interpretation to them. You quote "Father forgive them", but you don't tell us who the "them" are so you leave us confused.

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What is out of context?

Dan1988 said:

You then go on to quote other verses about what God has revealed to us by His Spirit, but again you give us no clue as to what those things are, leaving us even more confused.

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Do you believe people can know things that are revealed by the Holy Spirit or not? You seem to believe that there are things revealed by God to people, while also that if anyone thinks they know those things, that is "witchcraft"?

Dan1988 said:

As you can see, nobody knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. So please stop pretending that you're an exception to the rule.

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How am I excempting myself from a rule?

Hans Blaster said:

It seems we need to have a talk about conspiracy.

A conspiracy is a coordinated plan to keep an action or knowledge from the public for a nefarious purpose. A conspiracy theory is the assignation of conspiracy to explain some event or condition.

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I am not just meaning conspiracy. I am meaning the promotion of any misleading or misrepresentation of something. Using fallacies to misrepresent the facts or truths creates a false narrative like a conspiracy.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing that the ancients had lost advanced technology -- is not a conspiracy (or conspiracy theory).

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Hum then the language doesn't match. Language has been used that dismisses even the idea of ancient advanced knowledge full stop. This is done by explaining away that knowledge using the orthodox narrative as the go to explanation for everything without any evidence. Then accusing those who suggest alternative ideas as not having any evidence. Double standards. Part of forcing the orthodoxy.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing the ancients had lost technology from a lost civilization -- is not a conspiracy.
Believing the ancients had assistance from extraterrestrials -- is not a conspiracy.

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What. I am pretty sure I can find direct contradictions to this in this thread. If I had suggested that the ancients gained their knowledge from extraterrestrials I would be piled on lol. There would be cries 'see we told you this is all quackery' lol.

Hans Blaster said:

These are beliefs, they are not conspiracy. The various ideas expressed by the non-professional Egyptology people (from Dunn to Karoly) are not conspiracies, no matter how kooky or implausible.

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Now I am really confused lol. So believing the ancients maybe messed around with nature, physics, chemistry, astronomy and had real effects is ok a position to hold. Or maybe if a culture gained this knowledge they passed it on and we should believe the ancients when they say that their ancestors had advanced knowledge.

This is all ok. Is that what your saying. That its a legitimate belief and position to take that may be based on the truth.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing that 9/11 was an inside job -- *IS* a conspiracy theory.

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Huh, why. What if it was an inside job. Like I said usually when there is some questioning its based on some truth. This is usually some inconsistencies in what happened. Its not a complete baseless idea. As opposed to say the many other events that don't get questioned because there is nothing suspicious.

I am not saying that 9/11 was an inside job. But the idea that questioning whether something was an inside job is not a conspiracy itself.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing the CIA and the Mafia killed JFK -- *IS* a conspiracy theory.

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Once again there is usually some basis. It may have been nothing to do with the marfia actually killing Kennedy. But it may be that the Marfia was associated with Kennedy and that fueled the speculation. Its never based on nothing and made out of thin air. Otherwise the conspirators have nothing to use as the reason.

Plus I think a fair number of what were considered conspiracies actually were proven true. So saying this situation or that situation is a conspiracy is unjustified as we don't know. Because the unlikely has been shown to be fact before then any conspiracy may be proven fact. We don't know the deep State and all the hidden stuff that power has kept from everyone.

Look at Epstein which is starting to come out now. People have no idea of what was going on behind closed doors. But usually where theres smoke theres fire.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing the USAAF found and covered up an alien space craft in July 1947 is a conspiracy theory.

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What about now. Up to 30 top officials with top level clearence testifying under oath in congress. Soon more will come out. How many people need to testify before its believed.

What about all the sightings. Sure some were human made drones. But many unexplained. Direct images and video from military hardware. From individuals phones and cameras all over the world. Was this just mass hallucinations.

Hans Blaster said:

Believing that Dr. Faucci worked with the Chinese to create COVID-19 in the lab is a conspiracy theory.

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As mentioned these conspiracies are usually based on grains of truth. It may not have been that Dr. Faucci helped the Chinese to create Covid. But his department were involved in funding the Wuhan Institute of Virology who were working on the Covid virus. Two of the papers from that lab spoke about working on the virus and how this could create new unnatural mutations of the virus.

So its not based on nothing and there is even some questions still unanswered. Just like ancient legends are based on some truth of an event happening that has been elaborated on. So we should not be dismissing people who ask these questions. But encourage this as this will help find the truth.

Hans Blaster said:

There is no need to invoke "conspiracy" in this thread, so you can stop.

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I am not the one evoking conspiracies. Any time I have mentioned this has been in response to someone making it about conspiracies or pseudoscience and I have to defend the sources. Have to explain its not actually a conspiracy or pseudoscience.

The fact we are arguing over whether this is the case or not is the evidence that the thread has been turned that way lol. And it was not me who did this.