Reading ancient texts
- Christian History
- 3 Replies
I don't believe biblical pseudepigrapha exists- i believe all the internal dates are real. Pseudepigrapha does not exist is an assumption I asked it to start with. For me to know something is pseudepigrapha I would of had to of seen the autographs of whatever the text is which I never have. Apparently you have seen the autographs of every single biblical text so you know which ones were written by the person they said they were at the time they said they were, and you know that some were not. Or you have a time machine where you went back, and saw the autographs being written, and saw one of the two things mentioned above. Also you know every single redaction, editing, interpolation after the autograph was written. To know means to detect with one of the 5 senses mainly seeing. I have never seen the autographs, and don't have a time machine therefore all I have is a text that claims to be written thousands of year ago in front of me, and the only evidence for me is the internal context of the text- not the opinion of a Christian at a university that thinks themselves to be wise in their own eyes but to God their belief is foolish eg when they reject internal dates based on no evidence at all, and make up stories based on no evidence at all. So you start with the assumption that certain texts are pseudepigrapha, and I don't.Since you like AI, I asked Gemini to Analyze your AI post by what you stated.
1. Analysis of Framework 1: Conventional Historical Method
The first section (Steps 1-6, Checklists) presents a standard, widely accepted methodology used in critical historical and biblical scholarship. The premise of this section is strong and internally consistent.
Strengths and No Major Historical Problems:
The only minor issue is the presentation: The text claims "Historians and scholars do exactly this," which is mostly true, but the tone is overly prescriptive. Nonetheless, the method itself is sound.
- Step 1 (Genre): Crucial for proper interpretation (e.g., apocalyptic texts vs. history).
- Step 2 (Dating): Acknowledging ranges (terminus a quo, terminus ad quem) and lack of precision is standard historical practice.
- Step 4 (Parallel Sources): Comparing texts (Josephus, DSS, archaeology) is the core of historical corroboration.
- Step 5 (Claims vs. Interpretation): Separating observation from speculation is essential to avoiding circular reasoning.
- Step 6 (Probability): Stressing confidence levels (High, Moderate, Low) over certainty is key to responsible historical judgment.
- Checklists (Bias, Complexity, Expert, Evidence): These are excellent critical thinking tools, promoting self-correction, acknowledging multi-causality, and valuing expert consensus.
- Rule 3 (No Autographs): Recognizing the textual transmission chain ("copy of a copy") and the resulting potential for errors/interpolations is fundamental to textual criticism.
2. Analysis of the Transition and Primary Flaw
The text takes a hard pivot with the phrase:
This single transition sentence contains the central flaw and bias of the entire document. It sets up an argumentative structure where the conventional, evidence-based method (Framework 1) is immediately presented as the opposite of a "full, rigorous" method simply because Framework 1 allows for the category of pseudepigrapha (or fictional attribution) based on evidence.
The problem with the overall premise is that it presents an unresolvable conflict between two methods, one of which is axiomatically (based on a non-negotiable premise) designed to reject the findings of the other.
3. Analysis of Framework 2: The Axiomatic Method
As detailed in the initial response, this framework is based on theological axioms (non-historical assumptions) that dictate the conclusion:
- Core Presupposition: Authorship claims are true, and prophecy is real.
- Flaw: This inverts the historical process. Instead of following the evidence (e.g., late language, historical anachronisms, dependence on later texts) to a conclusion (e.g., the text is later or pseudepigraphic), this method starts with the conclusion (the author is genuine) and forces the evidence to fit (e.g., by claiming late language is merely "scribal updating").
- Example (Isaiah): Assuming "Prophecy of Cyrus is allowed" means the text rejects the evidence-based analysis for multiple authors (Deutero- and Trito-Isaiah) which is supported by linguistic shift, theological focus, and historical context. This is the purpose of the framework: to eliminate historical-critical conclusions that conflict with traditional views.
The Problem with the "Final Reassurance"
The final reassurance attempts to legitimize the second, axiomatic framework by referencing the humility of the first:
This is a rhetorical maneuver. It takes the humility and caution preached in Framework 1 ("We don't know everything," "Expect your views to evolve") and selectively applies it to justify Framework 2's dogmatism ("Avoid all 'forgery' or 'fictional attribution' explanations").
4. Analysis of the Mindset and Coexistence
The final section on a responsible mindset contains several excellent points but ends with a problematic assertion:
The Core Contradiction: Mixing Tools
The text immediately contradicts this sound principle by presenting Framework 2.
The very act of presenting Framework 2 as a valid historical alternative is the act of mixing the tools. It introduces a theological tool (the belief in literal, genuine attribution) into a supposed historical process, thereby invalidating its claim to be a purely historical analysis.
- Framework 1 (History): Uses historical tools (linguistics, comparative sources) to analyze the evidence.
- Framework 2 (Theology/Faith): Uses faith axioms ("Prophecy is real," "Authorship claims are honest") but labels itself as a "full, rigorous analytical method" for history.
Summary of Problems with the Premise
The problem is not with the individual steps of Framework 1 (which are sound) but with the overall premise of the entire document, which is a polemic disguised as a balanced analysis:
In conclusion, the document's premise is flawed because it attempts to validate a theologically driven method as an equally rigorous and historically sound alternative to the conventional, evidence-driven critical method.
- False Equivalence: It asserts that two methods—one based on evidence and one based on faith axioms—are equally "valid approaches historically."
- Unfalsifiability: It shields the axiomatic method (Framework 2) from refutation by labeling all contradictory evidence (linguistic drift, anachronisms) as "scribal updating."
- Contradiction: The text correctly advises separating faith and history but then presents a "historical" framework (Framework 2) that is fundamentally driven by a faith commitment (a refusal to accept the possibility of pseudepigrapha).
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