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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why Those in Hell Can Never Leave

God bless you. Also, the Church teaches that hell is a state of separation from God, not necessarily "fire and brimstone."

(I'm aware you aren't Catholic)

His grace and peace to you.
Thank you, I really appreciate that. I know a lot of traditions understand hell more as separation from God rather than literal fire, and that perspective definitely feels less frightening to me. My anxiety just tends to latch onto the harshest interpretations, even when I know they don’t line up with God’s love and mercy.

I’m working on reminding myself that God’s nature is compassion, not cruelty , and that fear doesn’t come from Him. Thank you for your this post and for taking the time to say that. It really means a lot. :)
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Anxiety about hell and eternal torture

Lately I’ve really been struggling with anxiety and OCD, especially around intrusive fears about hell. It’s been taking over my thoughts and making it hard to get through the day. Sometimes I get stuck worrying about people I care about possibly “going there,” and other times I spiral into fear about myself.

Whenever I come across posts that talk about eternal torture or damnation, it makes everything worse — it triggers the anxiety and sends me into a loop I can’t easily escape. I know these thoughts don’t reflect who I am or what I truly believe, but they still feel so real in the moment.

What Am I Missing Here?

On the last page of the novel The Grapes Of Wrath, a young mother breastfeeds an adult man because he is starving. It's a fictional story, and it's done for shock value IMO, but I assume the milk would always be beneficial.
Never read that novel, thanks for the input!
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Trump’s Name Chanted in Israel AND Gaza After Peace Deal: ‘Nobel Prize to Trump!’

Do we need anymore proof that Palestinians cannot govern themselves? If this continues, the only thing Hamas is going to govern is a pile of rubble.

I think the acknowledgement of that reality is likely why the negotiations included governing bodies from other Arab states filling some leadership roles in the short term.

From what I've read about it thus far, it sounds like the idea that's been pitched involves Egypt and Jordan taking quasi-administrative roles during the transitional/reconstruction phase.

It think that's the right move for both practical and PR reasons.

From a practical perspective: Palestinians are going to be more receptive to Egypt and Jordan filling that role than they would be a perceived "colonialist power". From a PR perspective, if there are any conflicts that involve some necessary use of force for certain incidents, Egypt and Jordan "wielding the sword" (instead of Western powers or Israel) will deflate and diffuse a lot of the typical domestic talking points.
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What denominations believe in the Rapture?

Thank you my friend, that is extremely kind of you. I am for an information dense style that many readers such as yourself enjoy; I can’t be all things for all people, and sometimes some readers criticize me for this style, but I am comforted by the knowledge that other readers appreciate it

I’m about to do a series of threads and posts on liturgical subjects, on the views of those who support EO-OO unification such as the numerous hierarchs of the International Orthodox Theological Association, and on ancient canon law and why evangelicals and other Protestants ought to apply it, and how it will protect churches from scandal.

Does that sound good to you?
Since I am not Orthodox, Eastern or Oriental, I'm not sure if I have much opinion on a unification. With that said, I would love to learn more about it.

Peace
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Sept 23rd Rapture

We can recount what occurred during that period but few give the same consideration to the changes that have ensued. The country was embroiled in arguments and debates over politics, vaccines and differences of opinion. While we were distracted they continued to build and released an ominous statement everyone recalls.

You’ll own nothing and be happy. How many people took him serious?

That was the time to build and the majority missed the boat because of distractions. Five years later we have another announcement but everyone’s talking about politics, the rapture, etc. while they’re working behind the scenes. Times and seasons have a principle we often ignore. Nothing lasts forever. Opportunities arrive and we have to act. We can’t put it off.

If you wanted to do today what you could have done five years ago it would probably cost you twice as much or more. And if we’re honest with ourselves we’ll admit our basic needs are owned by the government or the other side. We should be more concerned about entities buying up everything than a knucklehead on YouTube. Because they don’t serve your God or share your principles.

All we’re witnessing are different iterations of the slight of the hand. While they’re pointing left we should be looking right because that’s the thing that affects us. Like the remaining initiatives from Project 2025. They’ve completed 48% thus far and saved the worst for last. Such as:

*Weakening the regulations on baby formula
*Repealing the mandate to label genetically engineered food
*Eliminating the public service loan forgiveness program
*Fund in-home childcare instead of universal daycare
*Limit FHA mortgages to first time buyers

Everything on the list may not apply to you but given the second can you source everything independently? The bulk of our food is in the hands of conglomerates. Just like the media, household goods and so on. And heaven help you if you’re need. You’ll have to work for SNAP and Medicaid benefits and the latter will have time limits and/or lifetime caps.

You can’t have the end times without the new world order. They go hand in hand. The policy changes and reductions in our standard of living are part of it. I saw a video earlier concerning travel restrictions being applied to Americans. Some countries are implementing financial requirements for entry or becoming more selective about who gets in. If you haven’t read The Velvet Economy you should and it‘s already here.

If you’ve gone to an amusement park you’ve seen it in action. The VIP pass allows you to skip the line while the majority wait. You see the same with travel especially cruises and we’re back in the Titanic days. There’s portions of the ship that aren’t available unless you pay for access. We experienced it with flying and different classes and levels of service and comfort. And we see it at the grocery too. That what organic versus conventional implies. Healthy food is a premium.

Now we’re in the second phase where access is diminishing. There was a report a few months ago that the bulk of attendees at Disney parks are adults and families can’t afford it. That’s one of the reasons that streaming exists. In the beginning we saw movies and television shows but now we have events. Because the real thing is too expensive and it isn’t by chance. Everything is designed to be experienced vicariously and influencers were the first step and VR will expand it.

The bible tells us to work while the day is here because night is coming. When Bill Gates announced certain things would occur in ten years I believed him. Much like I did with Klaus. You look at the periods when ownership was limited and how people lived. It wasn’t pretty and the second iteration will be worse because of technology. As with most things we choose the outcome we want.

~bella
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Dressing nicely for Mass when no one else does.

I've been a tad sheepish of the threads I've been writing but I need to make another one.

This only applies to people, to whom it applies (yes, that sounds vague, lol).

How do you wrestle with the dilemma that you are finding it pointless anymore to dress pretty when going to church, because most people there are dressed as if they were going grocery shopping, or even hiking?

I feel better about myself when wearing a pretty dress, but other women are not dressing like me, and you know how catty women can be: "I bet she's dressing like that to find a husband."

I'm always a modest dresser, so that's not an issue.

When I have tried to dress for church like the others, I feel matronly and like I'm going to Walmart. However, I wonder if there is any point anymore in trying to look nice for church when I stick out like a sore thumb (that may be paranoia and not a fact). I am not overdressed IMHO.
Dress up for God. All those other people are not who you dress up for.

If I were a woman I would be tempted to wear a veil actually. Who cares what everybody else does.
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New York Times, AP, Newsmax among news outlets who say they won’t sign new Pentagon rules

I am surprised Newsmax didn't sign up. Guess there is a line they will not cross.
I imagine, to a certain extent, it was a combo of a strategic move, and a CYA move.

A) Because their journalists who actually work there still probably have some sort of aspirations of "moving up to the big leagues" (as far-fetched as that aspiration may be)

B) They have a portion of their audience that's of the "anti-establishment" ilk, and that portion of the viewer base probably wouldn't have responded favorably to them being the only network that opted basically be "state-run media"

C) That rule establishes a precedent that would prohibit them from doing the kind of "digging for dirty laundry" journalism the next time there's a democratic administration.


...I would imagine the rationale was probably somewhat similar over at Fox News HQ.
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How to teach faith for healing?

The following is how I believe I would teach faith, after giving it some thought.

Faith

Mark 11:23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

This verse shows us that if we have believing prayer that God will answer. However we need to look at through the Lense of a few scriptures.

Provision

Suppose a person were to pray “God I stand in faith, that you would make me rich”. Although the LORD wants us to prosper, He does not have to answer that kind of prayer. The Bible says:

James 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit"; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that." But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

We need to be aware that when praying for provision, it still must be according to God’s will. There is a fine line between claiming Jesus promises, and boasting. We still need to allow for God’s will in all of our prayers. Although we can pray for our needs to be met, as an example, we can’t just pray prayers, for our own pleasures.

James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

What about prayers for our physical needs. The Bible tells us:

1Peter 5:7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
Matthew 6:31-33 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

We are told not to worry about these things, for God will provide them. We should have a thankfulness in our prayers as we seek God on these issues.

Anger and Anxiety

So what is God’s will regarding things like anger and anxiety. As a Christian it is God’s desire that we do not have anger, or anxiety. We can claim freedom in these areas. However we should not say in all circumstances if we have anger or anxiety that it is a lack of faith. There are times that human situations can case us anxiety and anger, that may not quickly be defeated. As a example, I was on medication that caused my nervous system to be heightened, it caused violent shaking, which caused me to drop things, this caused social anxiety. I also went through a hugely difficult time in my life, so bad I almost suicided, at that time I was angry with my life. So not all forms of anxiety, or anger, can be suddenly beaten. But we should still focus on the hope that is provided for us in Christ, and claim the good future that he would have for us. There is however a kind of anxiety that comes from, demons messing with our minds. This is an unreasonable and attacking kind of anxiety, this can be defeated by standing in faith, because God has given us power over the devil. There is one thing we need to be aware of however, we need to be abiding in God’s word, and I don’t mean reading it alone, I mean living it to the best of our ability. For we can through our sins “Give place to the devil”, which brings with it emotional suffering.

Ephesians 4:27 nor give place to the devil.

Giving place to the devil, results in torment, and often anxiety. The only way to beat that kind of anxiety is to return to obedience, and stand on God’s mercy and forgiveness.

Praying for Others

So what about praying for others. Jesus would have us pray for the sick, but we can’t demand that God use us. Firstly we must be proved faithful.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

If we are not able or willing to present the word of God faithfully, we will not be able to perform a sign.

Mark 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

Does this mean that if we don’t see healing “immediately” that we are unfaithful? Not at all. It is just a fact that “claiming” a promise does not mean that in all cases we will have it, it must be according to God’s will.

God actually assigns the gifts based upon the faithfulness and faith of the messenger.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Note Paul gives an order “first”, “second”, “third” etc. This shows there is a level of trust God gives people. He goes on to say not everyone is a miracle worker, an apostle etc.

1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

He finishes by saying “earnestly desire” the best gifts.

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts.

But if we are living a sanctified life, we will be ready for God to use, and He will entrust us with healings, etc. We should always reach out in these ways.

2Ti 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Praying for Ourselves

What about prayer for sickness in our own body? If we are suffering, we should pray. But it is a fight that only we can make. If we desire healing, we should as Jesus said stand in faith, not doubting. But we need to allow for God’s timing. As an example we don’t know when God will heal, it could be 5 minutes, 5 years. So it is unwise to just go off medication, or something similar, as an “act of faith”. My mother went off medication, and prayed and fasted for her healing, she almost died. Since that time, until her death she advised against such “tests” of faith.

Standing in faith means that we don’t look to our circumstances, but we look to God’s word, even when our circumstance screams loss.

There is still however the element of God’s will. Sometimes God has reason for not bringing healing, and we should never judge others “faith”. As an example, there is a pastor from “Life without limbs”, Nick Vujicic, he was born with no arms or legs, yet God has used him mightily to reach out to people with disabilities. God has shown His power in his life by providing a joyful life for him. There is also Joni Eareckson who broke her back, she is now wheelchair bound, and has constant pain. Yet God used her to reach 10’s of thousands of disabled people with the gospel, and practical support and help. God does not always heal He often uses us where we are.

My personal best friend was mildly disabled, his mother, who was his carer died of old age, my friend then some months latter got a virus that killed him. I believe he was taken home to be with the LORD so that he would not have a long lonely life. We need to allow for the “will of the LORD”, in all of our praying.

The Holy Spirit

We should never associate healing or provision, with the Holy Spirit; In the sense that these things are assured for us as born again believers, nor a sign of the new creation. God as our father wants to meet our needs, and yes to heal. But healing and provision are not a formula.

Faith and Healing

Faith

Mark 11:23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

This verse shows us that if we have believing prayer that God will answer. However we need to look at through the Lense of a few scriptures.

Provision

Suppose a person were to pray “God I stand in faith, that you would make me rich”. Although the LORD wants us to prosper, He does not have to answer that kind of prayer. The Bible says:

James 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit"; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that." But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

We need to be aware that when praying for provision, it still must be according to God’s will. There is a fine line between claiming Jesus promises, and boasting. We still need to allow for God’s will in all of our prayers. Although we can pray for our needs to be met, as an example, we can’t just pray prayers, for our own pleasures.

James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

What about prayers for our physical needs. The Bible tells us:

1Peter 5:7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.
Matthew 6:31-33 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

We are told not to worry about these things, for God will provide them. We should have a thankfulness in our prayers as we seek God on these issues.

Anger and Anxiety

So what is God’s will regarding things like anger and anxiety. As a Christian it is God’s desire that we do not have anger, or anxiety. We can claim freedom in these areas. However we should not say in all circumstances if we have anger or anxiety that it is a lack of faith. There are times that human situations can case us anxiety and anger, that may not quickly be defeated. As a example, I was on medication that caused my nervous system to be heightened, it caused violent shaking, which caused me to drop things, this caused social anxiety. I also went through a hugely difficult time in my life, so bad I almost suicided, at that time I was angry with my life. So not all forms of anxiety, or anger, can be suddenly beaten. But we should still focus on the hope that is provided for us in Christ, and claim the good future that he would have for us. There is however a kind of anxiety that comes from, demons messing with our minds. This is an unreasonable and attacking kind of anxiety, this can be defeated by standing in faith, because God has given us power over the devil. There is one thing we need to be aware of however, we need to be abiding in God’s word, and I don’t mean reading it alone, I mean living it to the best of our ability. For we can through our sins “Give place to the devil”, which brings with it emotional suffering.

Ephesians 4:27 nor give place to the devil.

Giving place to the devil, results in torment, and often anxiety. The only way to beat that kind of anxiety is to return to obedience, and stand on God’s mercy and forgiveness.

Praying for Others

So what about praying for others. Jesus would have us pray for the sick, but we can’t demand that God use us. Firstly we must be proved faithful.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

If we are not able or willing to present the word of God faithfully, we will not be able to perform a sign.

Mark 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

Does this mean that if we don’t see healing “immediately” that we are unfaithful? Not at all. It is just a fact that “claiming” a promise does not mean that in all cases we will have it, it must be according to God’s will.

God actually assigns the gifts based upon the faithfulness and faith of the messenger.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Note Paul gives an order “first”, “second”, “third” etc. This shows there is a level of trust God gives people. He goes on to say not everyone is a miracle worker, an apostle etc.

1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

He finishes by saying “earnestly desire” the best gifts.

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts.

But if we are living a sanctified life, we will be ready for God to use, and He will entrust us with healings, etc. We should always reach out in these ways.

2Ti 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Praying for Ourselves

What about prayer for sickness in our own body? If we are suffering, we should pray. But it is a fight that only we can make. If we desire healing, we should as Jesus said stand in faith, not doubting. But we need to allow for God’s timing. As an example we don’t know when God will heal, it could be 5 minutes, 5 years. So it is unwise to just go off medication, or something similar, as an “act of faith”. My mother went off medication, and prayed and fasted for her healing, she almost died. Since that time, until her death she advised against such “tests” of faith.

Standing in faith means that we don’t look to our circumstances, but we look to God’s word, even when our circumstance screams loss.

There is still however the element of God’s will. Sometimes God has reason for not bringing healing, and we should never judge others “faith”. As an example, there is a pastor from “Life without limbs”, Nick Vujicic, he was born with no arms or legs, yet God has used him mightily to reach out to people with disabilities. God has shown His power in his life by providing a joyful life for him. There is also Joni Eareckson who broke her back, she is now wheelchair bound, and has constant pain. Yet God used her to reach 10’s of thousands of disabled people with the gospel, and practical support and help. God does not always heal He often uses us where we are.

My personal best friend was mildly disabled, his mother, who was his carer died of old age, my friend then some months latter got a virus that killed him. I believe he was taken home to be with the LORD so that he would not have a long lonely life. We need to allow for the “will of the LORD”, in all of our praying.

The Holy Spirit

We should never associate healing or provision, with the Holy Spirit; In the sense that these things are assured for us as born again believers, nor a sign of the new creation. God as our father wants to meet our needs, and yes to heal. But healing and provision are not a formula.

The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Not true.

EX 20:11 quotes the Sabbath at Creation Gen 2:2-3 stating that this is the origin.
Mark 2:27 "Sabbath MADE for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" j--k speaks of the "making" of both in Gen 1-2
Jesus was speaking in Mark 2.27 not of the creation of God's Creation Sabbath but of the creation of Sabbath Law for Israel. Obviously, the Creation Sabbath was not itself a creation! It was God's rest after creation.

But God created a Sabbath Law for Israel at Horeb. This has nothing to do with the original Creation of the World.
Is 66:23 Sabbath for ALL MANKIND (from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship) for all eternity after the cross in the New Heavens and New Earth
I explained this elsewhere. Prophets in the OT used OT language to describe future NT realities. And that's because while Israel was still under the Law they dared not use language indicating it was no longer valid for their time.

For example, when describing the future hope of Israel in the Kingdom of God Ezekiel described a Temple as if it depicted proper Temple worship in a future NT Dispensation. But in reality, the Temple was just a vision of something heavenly, the earthly Temple being used symbolically to portray something different in the future. The vision, however, was to instruct the Israel of Ezekiel's day, who were still under the Law and could understand things only if given in OT language.

It is the same thing when Isaiah refers to Sabbaths in Isa 66.23. He is really talking about a time when the world will acknowledge God from week to week. But he used religious terms applicable to Israel's worship in his own day, so that Israel would maintain in their time proper reverence for Sabbath observance.

I think you argue all this not from the Bible alone, but with respect for something like 7th Day Adventism? Paul clearly denies any need to observe religious days. And it was practiced by the apostles only because they were Jews who were attempting to reach out to Jews in their cultural terms.

Jesus observed the Sabbath during his earthly ministry because at that time the Law was still in effect. But the Law was preparatory for the New Covenant instituted at the cross where the veil was rent.

Sabbath Law is not immortal and eternal, but rather, part of the Law of Moses. We follow Christ alone today, and fulfill laws only with respect to him.

And he had no need to live under the "Law of Sin and Death," ie the Mosaic Law. He had no need to reverence the Sabbath Day, and no need to have his sins atoned for--he had no sin.

And we should live today as though we don't need our sins atoned for anymore--that was finished at the cross. We can dispense with Sabbath observance, according to Paul.
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

When I look at the empirical cumulative distribution function of surface deviation for the Petrie vases, I think it is clear that the single proposed quality metric doesn't tell the whole story even if it is done as described. Of course, this is just my layman's opinion. Why do they even talk about internal quality, when almost no internal surfaces have been completely captured and the amount scanned differ wildly between different objects so what does it mean when comparing it between objects.
Giving this a bit more thought I had a closer examination of the Maximus.energy paper and while not based on the Artifacts Foundation link the coding for both is to use the least square method for circularity and central coordinate difference for concentricity.
At least Maximus.energy has provided information which can be analysed and critiqued.


As we all know by now vase V18 has 'fantastic precision' to a degree the value of the quality metric M is below the spatial resolution of the scanning net. First some basics.

Quality.png


RMSE is the root mean square error for circularity, dR is the root mean square error for centering and is related to the concentricity for both inner and outer diameters as defined in the diagram.

Max.png


Given each term in M is a positive value and all terms are summed it is highly suspicious for M to fall below the scanner limit.
It means either a low resolution scanner was used resulting in the point spacing of the mesh being too large or there is something suspiciously wrong with the code.

The answer is found when the centering error data dR for vase V18 is plotted against the vase height z.

V18.png

There is absolutely no reason for the average centering error for the inner diameter to be around 3X larger than the outer diameter as one would expect a random distribution.
It points to some systematic bias introduced by the code.
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Men now surpass women in church attendance, especially among Gen X, millennials: Barna

I wonder why?

Because there’s less women joining those traditions which relates to my earlier comments on education. They’re more likely to choose egalitarian settings with less emphasis on gender roles. And there’s a similar correlation with growth. Which doesn’t minimize tradition per se but the attitudes can be off putting for some.

Work/life balance was a popular ideal which was reiterated in minimalism, simplicity, slow living, etc. It’s a manageable lifestyle with fewer demands. They don’t want to be superwomen and you have to be that to some degree to work, raise a family and run a home with traditional gender roles.

We’re beginning to understand that we don’t have to do it all or do everything ourselves and outsourcing is a growing trend within that demographic. Which includes housework, shopping, meal delivery plans and so on. Like buying your groceries online and having it delivered or having a cleaning service come in a few times a month or having your laundry done.

Whereas in traditional circles doing otherwise is lauded and what the majority saw growing up. But they’re less attractive to those who want otherwise and there’s not enough women who desire the same to meet everyone’s needs. Christian or otherwise.

~bella
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