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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Is Santa Mythology based on Odin?

There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD.

You'll have to cite the exact passage so we can have confirmation, but that seems about a century early, as Tacitus wrote around the year 100 AD, unless he was specifically referring to things a century ago.

However, this is where we run into a major problem with the whole "this thing in Christmas is like this thing pagans did way back when" arguments. If the claim is it comes from paganism, then we need evidence that:
1) Pagans actually did engage in this practice (you'd be surprised how people just make up; this is why it is critical to cite primary sources)
2) They did so in close enough proximity to Christians that Christians could have been influenced
3) Pagans did so close enough to the beginning of the applicable Christian practice that influence was possible

What a lot of people don't realize is that a lot, perhaps even the majority, of Christmas customs we have are actually recent developments of the last few centuries. By that point, paganism had gone extinct in Europe and had been so for centuries upon centuries. So whatever ancient people did that might have resembled Christmas customs (if they did do them, again a whole lot of false claims get made), it couldn't have influenced the development of those Christmas customs because there's far too big a gap of time between them.

So let's analyze this claim of yours according to these 3 requirements. You haven't demonstrated #1 because all you've done is given a vague reference to Tacitus. #2 is not clear either; Germans were outside of the Roman Empire. Were Germans, if they were doing this in the days of Tacitus, still doing it at the time when there was stronger Christian contact? And #3 is flat out; Christmas trees started around the 16th century AD, by which point those pagan practices had completely ceased long ago. Even then, I don't think Christmas trees actually got popular until several centuries later. All three of these need to be true for the "pagan influence" idea to even be possible, so failure to meet any of them means the whole thing collapses. Since #3 fails irrespective of #1 and #2, this argument is therefore without merit.

A far more plausible origin of the Christmas tree, as the Oxford Handbook of Christmas says in chapter 22, is:

“The Christmas tree tradition most likely developed from a combination of medieval liturgical traditions and guild patronage to local communities, which over time were transformed into a private practice beginning in the sixteenth century. In the medieval period, many people could not read and write, so plays were a way to communicate biblical stories. In that time, a Paradise Tree was set up for plays to represent the Tree of the Knowledge mentioned in Genesis 2:9. The actor playing Adam would later parade through the streets of the town with the tree. The tree symbolized humanity’s downfall but also represented the tree of the cross, which would become the salvation of all people. Medieval tradition even claimed that Adam had taken a branch from the Tree of Knowledge and Jesus’ cross was made from that tree. The trees were decorated with apples, representing the Fall of humankind, while round pastry wafers on the tree symbolized the Eucharistic host as the path to salvation. The plays were performed on 24 December, which was the feast day for Adam and Eve. The display of the Paradise Tree was meant to symbolize the Garden of Eden where they lived. The liturgical calendar placed their feast day here to remind Christians that Jesus’ birth was a conduit of salvation allowing humanity to return to its perfect state in the Garden.”

It went into some more detail, but this was the only portion I have easily available to post (it was so useful I made sure to jot it down for future use). Still, it is fairly easy to see how a practice of decorating a tree on December 24 could easily have caused tree decoration to spread to the very next day. However, this custom emerged from a biblical story, and while earlier than Christmas trees, again comes too late to have had plausible influence from ancient paganism.

The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.
Unlike before, where you at least cited a vague source, here you offer none (thus we cannot say that requirement #1 has been proven). But let us suppose this is indeed the case. As noted above, we run into the major problem that tree decoration on Christmas developed far too late for this to have had any impact (failing requirement #3). As for mistletoe, the "kissing under the mistletoe" tradition cannot, as far as I can tell, be traced back any farther than the 18th century, so we run afoul of #3 again by citing a tradition that developed so long after any pagans might have done it that no connection is really possible.
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Is it wrong to be realistic?

I grew up in Norway, the opposite of the life for me in every way. I never complained.
My ancestors came from Norway to the US And I went back for a visit as part of a job I had in the US
But I always wanted to live like jews or muslims for example, have girls on my lap and watch people sing.
What does that have to to with Jews, Muslims, or Norway??
I realise I can`t fake believing in a god, so my dream can never be. When my niece was very young, she wanted us to watch a movie together, which we did, but the entire time I felt strongly pain. I think she didn`t give closeness, and her mother`s brother came in during the movie with a sexual undertone. God knows why, but it`s how Norwegians are, kinda ruined the entire thing. I know the world is slowly turning bad, so I shouldn`t expect to watch a movie together like that in peace.
Culture outside the Bible tends to have a lot of bad ideas. That is the world that we live in since the fall of Adam. The Gospel lifts fallen humanity above our sinful nature, above defective culture. 2 Cor 5 "If any is in Christ Jesus he is turned into a new creation"
Is it depressing to think that nothing good will ever happen in real life, and there`s no heaven no matter how much you pray?
Yes that is like being a pilot of an airplane and choosing to nose dive into the ground.

Better to look up.

The Bible , Christianity is NOT about failing in a more happy way. It is about eternal life, streets of gold,

Heaven is like a great big potluck with lots of friends (a poor approximation on my part I know)

Jesus does not just "offer" eternal life, He suffered , was tortured and died -- willingly so the conditions for your full and free salvation can be given to you as a gift.

It does not get any easier than that.
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WE ARE AT WAR! Trump approves military action against Latin American cartels classified as terrorist organizations.

His autopsy report suggest Floyd died of s fentynal overdose.
That is untrue.
I always heard that The official Hennepin County medical examiner's classify Floyd's death cause as cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression ...and deemed as a homicide.
This essentially means Derek's knee = fentanyl :(
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Jack Smith tells House Judiciary Committee he could prove Trump engaged in a 'criminal scheme' to overturn 2020 election

I am impressed by Smith's sterling character, continuing to proclaim the truth boldly while under attack and likely indictment by the very criminal he gathered compelling evidence against.
God bless him.
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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

Jesus was speaking about his return.
That is your mistake.
Matthew 24:42-44, is not referring to the Return of Jesus, It is a Prophecy about the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath.
Proved by the context prior to it, comparing it to Noah's Flood. A worldwide disaster!

Also take note of Isaiah 61:1-2, what Jesus quoted at the commencement of His Ministry. He ended that quote before -and a day of the vengeance of our God. Then it goes on to tell about how His faithful peoples will be rewarded.
Therefore; we know the next Prophesied event we can expect will be the Sixth Seal.
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Australia allowed Jewish hate to fester with cowardly appeasement and foolish immigration decisions

Predictably they used it to deflect from the real causes and push gun control. Devine nailed it in her article. "Unchecked antisemitism, cowardly appeasement, lax policing and foolish immigration decisions half a century in gestation have coalesced in multicultural southwestern Sydney, an hour’s drive from Bondi.
Add to the mix strict gun control — for law-abiding Australians, but not for the homegrown Islamist terrorists and gangbangers who only last month were shooting 50 rounds from an AK-47 at a house in the suburb of Casula, just 6 miles down Cowpasture Road from Bonnyrigg, where the alleged gunmen lived. ... It was the perfect recipe for violence to erupt."

Remaining silent against bigotry and hatred is not the answer. We need to discuss, not shut down discussions. You'll find these words at the Holocaust museum:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller
Yep, standard post shooting excrement.
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Obamacare is collapsing. Republicans should let it

Republicans often blame the ACA for high insurance costs, but the ACA doesn’t set healthcare prices, insurance companies and hospitals do. Blaming the ACA for rising costs is like blaming your grandfather for expensive shoes he had to buy: the prices were set by the store, not the person paying the bill. Yet somehow, the payer is labeled the failure rather than the system charging the prices.

Healthcare costs are rising for Medicare and Medicaid too, but no one argues we should kick elderly or disabled people off coverage and let them “figure it out.” Instead, the government is blamed for high prices when the real problem is too little oversight, not too much. Countries with universal healthcare, where the government handles insurance for everyone, consistently spend less per person and achieve better health outcomes, including longer life expectancy.

The idea that a “free market” will fix healthcare ignores reality. In a medical emergency, people don’t shop around or negotiate prices, they go to the closest hospital. No one having a heart attack is choosing a farther hospital because it’s in-network. Healthcare isn’t Amazon, and pretending it is only benefits insurers. Universal systems have already proven to be cheaper, more efficient, and better for patients.
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Will you let the bible ...

Yes it went off since soteriology would be important to consider, yet reference to the book of Revelation is bringing up eschatology as that is the concern of that book, and if symbolism that it is full of leaves divisive ideas about eschatological sequences, it is not reliably understood about other subjects with having all that symbolism. In retrospect we will understand these things afterward. Universalism is not well supported biblically, neither is annihilationism. Afterlife is lasting as the same words in the Bible apply to relationship with God with the restoration, so justice that is fair will be for those others also lasting in the same way.
Although I agree that Revelation is primarily eschatological, I appreciate viewing it through the lens of revealing Jesus Christ. I find supremely excellent aspects of the person and work of Jesus Christ in the Revelation as much, or even more, than any other book of the Bible.

Thank you for sharing with me.
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Why Is It So Hard for Christians to Talk About Justice and Greed?

I think we can't separate proclaiming the good news from doing good for others, from fighting for victims against injustices done. Love simply calls for both. And, yes, the great commission is primary and we can only do as much as is possible for us to do but, if somehow we had the capability of reforming every soical evil then it would be incumbent upon us to do it. And in Matt 25 Jesus actually defined a criteria for salvation, separating the sheep from the goats, according to what they did "for the least of these".

Either way, as social beings who're responsible for being our brother's keeper, I'll definiterly come down on the side of nodding to the need for a soundly worked out social justice plan that correctly defines social justice such that coordinated efforts can be made to strive to right wrongs as the needs arise.
You must be specific. I have no idea whether you are refering to rembursement for slavery or blame the white guys. Or a thing you can do something about other than pearl clutch.
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Can you ride the wave of an imploding star?

I have given it some thought, and I think it`s not possible to ride an dying sun ether. The spaceship itself would be limited to the speed of light still. I thought maybe the waves from the dying sun would surround the vessle and sort of make it become outside space and time. I also think there`s maybe still psychical laws in an dying sun also, yes because of the very first sun in the universe; it had to grow to a certain size before it imploded, which suggest there`s a limit on how big it can get
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Need prayer, troubled by evil spirits

This just came to me as I read your post.
Luke 10:19 KJV
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

The word "power" is used twice in the verse.
The first instance means "authority," and means you have the right to control.
The second instance means "power" as in force.
You have the "authority" to control the "force" of the devil.
I have often stripped the devil of his force. He falls flat and cannot do anything.
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Minneapolis police chief draws scorn for using Nativity story to attack ICE: 'False teaching'

"And I cannot help but think of what is happening in our city today, and how that echoes with how outsiders have been treated for thousands of years; how Mary and Joseph themselves were considered outsiders, and forced to stay in a barn," he continued.
Obviously, he doesn't know the story, so he made up his own.
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Prayer for Healing, Wisdom, and Peace in a Mentorship Relationship

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,
I humbly ask for your prayers regarding a relationship at my workplace.

There is a mentor whom I deeply respect and love, someone who has been like a mother figure to me. Recently, our relationship has become distant, and this has been genuinely painful for me because of how deeply I care.

I have also struggled when I see her sharing lighthearted conversations—about food and enjoyable moments—with others, while our own connection feels quiet and removed. I recognise that this stirs hurt and comparison in my heart, and I do not want these feelings to take root in an unhealthy way.

Not long ago, I had a simple dream of happily sharing a meal together at a sushi restaurant. It made me realise how much my heart still longs for closeness and fellowship, even though I know such moments may not be possible in reality.

Please pray that God would heal my heart, guard me from unhealthy attachment, and teach me to love with humility, wisdom, and grace. Pray that I would honour her well, respect boundaries, and trust God fully with this relationship—whether He brings restoration or leads me into peaceful acceptance.

Thank you for standing with me in prayer.
God bless.
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Hunt for Brown University shooting suspect underway

Starting the disinformation campaign early I see.
He's not the only one.

Fox News contributor blames DEI for shooting deaths at Brown University

Nicole Parker: “I believe that Brown University's prioritization was not on the safety and security of their students. They were more focused on things like DEI efforts, and that has been catastrophic and led to the death of two students.”
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What Did You Get Last Sunday?

Interesting given that Prayer C doesn't have a preface at all! Prayer D is my favorite due to its beauty and catholic nature. But it sure is looooong.

If you think that’s long, try the original EgBAS on which it is based some time… And that’s the shortest of the Alexandrian prayers (or rather, semi-Alexandrian, only the one known as St. Mark or St. Cyril is purely Alexandrian).

Alas the Euchologian of St. Sarapion or the Apostolic Tradition can be misleading, suggesting short services - the default Ethiopian anaphora is actually the old Antiochene anaphora, found in St. Hippolytus, but what some people don’t realize is that in Hippolytus or Serapion, you are only seeing the parts meant for a bishop or possibly a presbyter, not the parts for deacons or cantors - it wasn’t until the 9th or 10th century that Missales containing the entire service started to appear (some have linked this with the historic Roman practice of the priest silently repeating everything said during a mass, which may or may not be the case; I myself think having everything in one book with the common in the middle and the propers before and after, to reduce wear on the binding, is very practical, especially with the Western liturgies where the Mass can be extremely variable, depending on the rite (the use of Sarum was a bit more variable than the Tridentine use if I recall, but much less variable than the Mozarabic Rite, for instance).

By the way, I have a copy of a Mexican Anglican prayer book with an English and Spanish translation of a simplified form of the Mozarabic liturgy. I believe its online as well.
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