RDKirk said:

You can utter those words, but there is no way for Communism to work except under an authoritarian government.

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Yes, that is what most expects agree on but some Social Libertarians say that it can. But, we haven't seen one try that. Corruption always rears its ugly head and destroys the good.

Roberta often brings insightful news.

WFGTR

bling said:

An unborn baby does not fit the Biblical description of a believer.

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An unborn baby does not fit the description of selfish either until the umbilical cord is cut. Then it becomes a matter of self-preservation and that starts the ball rolling down the self-interest trail. Our will ahead of the will of God.

FredVB said:

I believe Christians generally will be blindsided.

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They always are when they follow the governments of man rather than the government/will of God. They somehow thinkk the two can work as one, when in reality, the Gospel of the Kingdom is a movement of opposing values. That is why it was dropped when the religion joined the Roman Empire to avoid conflict by those who sought power and authourity. Mankind has always taken this wrong wide path when given the opportunity, regardless of how many time God said from the beginning to put his will first ahead of our own..

For sure, the 270 is a dandy round! Based on the 30-06 as the parent cartridge.
308.7,62 Nato is another old round that works very well.

dms1972 said:

So what I am asking is this viewing of certain things, activities etc. as taboo, is this something one would encounter more with certain christian groups, denominations etc, than others, or is it something is present to varying degrees in all christian groups?

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If you're asking in particular about prohibitions against drinking, dancing, cards, movies, and similar recreational activities, I can speak a little from my own experience of churches. I've encountered these prohibitions amongst some kinds of Baptists, some kinds of Presbyterian and other Reformed groups, and some nondenominational churches. All of these are churches that have been influenced by the Reformed tradition (but see note below). By contrast, I haven't generally seen these prohibitions in Episcopal, Catholic, or Lutheran churches.

My "note below" is that I don't have enough experience with the PCUSA, UCC, or American Baptists to know how they feel about these recreational prohibitions. Perhaps someone from one of these traditions can speak to it. I'm also not sure about the conservative Lutherans like the LCMS or WELS (they're inerrantists, but I don't know if they'd forbid drinking a beer while watching a movie). Also, to my Orthodox friends: I haven't forgotten you exist; I just have no experience of your culture, sorry.

If you're still looking for a church, and you're bothered by the prohibitions on things like movies, would you consider going outside the nondenominational tradition and trying something like a Lutheran church? (Or maybe PCUSA, if they give satisfactory answers to your questions?)

stevevw said:

As though the objector is claiming they have discovered the truth some 2000 years later.

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True. God's truth was already in the OT.

Fisherking said:

He will only be revealed when he goes forth Conquering at the 1260 middle of the week. He will never be their King, he is the E.U. President. Did the UK ever consider the E.U. President as their King? Of course not.

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The man of sin reveals himself by sitting in the temple of God, claiming that he is God.

2Thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Fisherking said:

This never happens, him being the King over Israel is just your erroneous interpretation my friend.

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The Jews are looking for their messiah (someone they believe as other than Jesus).

The Jews hold that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel. And if you look at Mark 15:32, that belief existed at the time Jesus was crucified.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Fisherking said:

Israel will simply join the E.U. this is how the AC gets political sway, he makes an "Agreement" which is what Israel joining the E.U.

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There is no biblical basis that Israel will join the EU. What is you basis for that opinion ?

The covenant to be confirmed in Daniel 9:27 for a 7 year period will be the Mt. Sinai covenant, in the method Moses described in Deuteronomy 31:9-31.

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btw, we can disagree. Nothing personal.

Justified is coming to Christ exactly where we are, in our sinful state, Jesus loves and accepts us as sinners. But Jesus loves us too much to leave us in the state of being sinners and calls us for holiness to be re-created in His image. 2 Cor3:18 Eph4:24 This is sanctification. At some point, the Christian needs to go from milk to solid food and receive the oracles of God. Hebrews 5:11-13

pasifika said:

By believe in Jesus..John 3:16

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AND CHRIST'S. had not yet BEEN. CRUCIFIED. and His blood shed as HEB. 9:18. says to all !!

I T. was ATONEMENT that had to GO !!

The LAW COULD NEVER SAVE as it. was only given to ISRAEL , PERIOD. and Israel was set aside in. ACTS 25-28

and ISA 6:1-13 Also says why !!

And if you believe that the LAW. is still in. EFFECT than. you have an ALTER a PRIEST and LAMB for your

SACIFICE. for your SINS. , so do you. ??

AND IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE NEW COVENANT. is for today , HOW WILL YOU BE SAVED TOCAY. ??

dan p

The Barbarian said:

his incitement of the Jan 6 inserrection, and so on.

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The Barbarian said:

The one that Trump ordered his people to do to stop the certification of the election he lost to Biden. That one. The one where they broke into the Capitol, attacked police officers, and forced Congress to hide in a shelter until the insurrectionists could be defeated and removed.

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This thread was about Christians exercising wisdom and taking responsibility for the words they speak—and the slander they pass on. Recent events have only confirmed the concern.
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Landon Caeli said:

I don't know who I can trust to be honest. The far-right wants to lower my wages, and the far left wants to raise the poor to my level, nullifying any monetary leverage I have...

There is no party for the middle-class... The largest class. That's probably because if there were, our numbers would keep us in power for a long time, and our current system doesn't like a monopoly on power.

In the meantime, let's keep illegal immigrants out of the trucking industry, and preserve the integrity of middle class jobs for American families.

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What's your idea of "middle class" that Dem policies don't clearly help?

Anyone else remember snow forts?

Fervent said:

Your strawman is unpersuasive, at the very least. And your question only makes sense in your framework, so there is no need for me to answer it since I reject your framework.

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Well, that's helpful! I can answer you in your own framework, demonstrating its self-contradiction, but you can't answer mine, though you claim it is self-contradictory.

Fervent said:

It is quite simple, if determinism is true then it would be impossible for anyone to come to believe in determinism of their own accord.

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Who says anyone believes anything of their own accord? What does that even mean?

Fervent said:

And the ability to reject determinism is then a demonstration of the falsity of determinism, so by affirming free will I am showing determinism to be false. And I'm not playing your silly semantic games, we both know full well what we mean by free will and determinism.

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Your affirmations only show that you affirm whatever you affirm. And no, I don't know what you mean by determinism —I can only guess. And I asked you to define free will in order to demonstrate its self-contradictory nature. I know full well you intend "libertarian" free will, which is in essence "full spontaneity", as though the free willed person was his own first cause, which is a logically invalid notion. That a person is free to choose as he will is self-evident. But what he always chooses is chosen at enmity with God, if he is not born-again.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

If universal healthcare does not reduce overall healthcare costs in the country by 70%, individuals will end up paying more than 30% through taxes.

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This assumes that businesses will take the 70% that they're paying now back as pure profit. I would hope that any plan to implement a single-payer healthcare system would take such an obvious loophole into account.

Just remember that even though the stormy seas are wavier than ever Gods lighthouse is still there in the distance. Just keep referring back to that light even when its faint and its hard to see clearly through the mist. It will guide you home.

Questioning things is ok and sometimes we burn our fingers to learn a lesson. So long as we are willing to learn that lesson. Which takes faith. Sometimes thats what it comes down to. God doesn't give up on us and He will show the way. He is the potter and we are the clay.

Sometimes we lose the way and its ok. We have to steel our faith and that takes growth. We are also humans and we can take our humanness to God. He understands. I will pray for you that God will shine the way for you and give you hope and strength in your trials.

Michie said:

On the Over-Seriousness of Today

The current age, with its technologies, its wars, its uncertainties and anxieties, is a gloomy and worried age. Rates of depression and anxiety have skyrocketed among younger generations and there is an ever-present burden upon everyone’s shoulders. The constant terrible photos and videos of the news cycle weigh upon our minds and hearts, as we are forced to hear about everything happening everywhere, all the time. Our phones and laptops keep us connected, even when we might desire to be left alone. This is, certainly, a very serious age: we take everything seriously. Our jobs, our families, our economy and political affiliations, and, most dangerously, our religion. It has become a Serious Matter to attend Church on Sundays, to receive the sacraments, to profess the Creed. Of course, the Faith should be celebrated and embraced with dignity, but one of the key words is that it should be “celebrated.” Our faith is not meant to only be a dour and depressing hour of our week, in which we all silently sit and wait for it to be over, our minds and hearts occupied with the myriad horrible things occurring around us.

Continued below.

Bring Joy – Catholic Stand

catholicstand.com

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That article really struck a chord with me. I take it as an exhortation to let our whole selves respond to the whole truth of God. There are many aspects to reverence, from a time to prostrate ourselves, overwhelmed by His holiness, to a time to dance and sing, overwhelmed by His goodness.

===============
Lady: Are you the police?
Elwood Blues: No, ma'am, we're musicians ... We're on a mission from God.

Pastor Zhang Shaojie, from Nanle county in China’s Henan province, was released at the weekend, after serving 12 years in prison.

Pastor Zhang, pictured with his 84-year-old mother, was detained in November, 2013, following a dispute with local government authorities over a plot of land that his church had the legally acquired rights to.

He and other church leaders had been planning to have a new church and ministry centre built on the land. The year after being detained he was charged with ‘gathering a crowd to disrupt public order’ and ‘fraud’.

Church members believed the Chinese authorities had targeted him in order to obtain the land and to prevent the ministry of the church from growing.

Announcing his release from prison, Release International’s partner for China said, ‘We rejoice at his freedom, but we continue to pray for him and his family as the Chinese Communist Party has installed a large number of facial recognition cameras around his home and has not allowed anyone to visit.’

Give thanks for Pastor Zhang’s release

Pray for his physical and mental well-being and for his family.

Umbrella

Servus said:

Are you saying everyone who doesn't post like that lacks knowledge? Or that posts should require the reader to look up numerous names and references?

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Wisdom should be treasured, not reviled.

My saying that would be almost as absurd as your inference. You don't need to look up "reviled" and "inference"; I did it for you.

Mississippi delta

Normal nasturtiums need necessary nurture.

Delvianna said:

Yes, for sure. While Trump fixed some things the government was doing, like spying on Christians and labeling them as "extremists" via the FBI, I think that isn't going to stop the people behind that from picking it back up once Trump is out of office.

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I have been thinking about this and realised that what is at stake is more than Christianity. But the freedoms that the west brought which stemmed from Christian values. But the principles of freedom and democracy was a western idea seperated from the church.

So really when people reject Christianity they are also rejecting constitutional rights.

It shows that this is about ideological belief in how the world should be ordered. A belief that is willing to sacrifice or deny the truth principles of freedom and democracy and to impose an ideology on others. Which is the complete reverse of how the church once imposed its will on society.

Delvianna said:

Then you have the idea where Christians are hated for being against some lifestyles because scripture says it's wrong.

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Yes and it makes sense as far as the world is concerned. Logically if the State replaced the church and the State represents the social norms. Then as the social norms move further away from God it becomes more conflicting.

The State became the new church because the political was made the personal with identity politics. Which had been cultivated for decades. Once the political becomes the personal then morality comes in. Then its a battle of morality as to which belief should stand as the basis for society and the nation.

This is the beginning of the battle we are seeing happening now. As time goes by this will become more defined between Christians and the world. Christ and the anti Christ.

Delvianna said:

We're seeing a rise in that too and then let's not forget the rise in extreme Muslim thinking too that is leading to attacks against Jews and Christians in western countries. England is getting it the worst right now. So absolutely, I think it's only going to get worse as people get more brazen.

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Yes and its interesting that both political extremists and Islamists are rising at the same time. I can remember when the western nations were allied against the barbaric terrorism of extreme Islamists. Remember 9/11 and the Bali nightclub suicide attacks. The train and bus bombings, and knife and vehicle attacks on the streets.

Then Covid came and it settled down. But then came the cultivation of identity politics and the culture war. I really think the radical Islamists were not stupid. They declare they will get the Jews and west anyway they can. So it seems their kind of extreme mindset has been brought into the west. Mixed with the already extremist politics and you have a perfect storm for sowing division and dissent.

The common enermy being Jews and the west and Christians by extension. But its interesting how it just happens to be the Jews and Christians and not say Greeks and pagans or Muslims or any other percieved enermy that needs to be stopped.

Delvianna said:

I agree! My aunt was a street preacher before she died when I was little. The fact that a woman could do it alone back in the 70's and 80's vs today just essentially says all that needs to be said lol.

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Yes and I remember going to a church in the heart of Darlinghurst which is the Gay capital of the world back then. I would often walk the streets with Christian friends. Kings Cross was next door and you would see all sorts of preachers out and about. Or mission vans.

People loved the hope and even social aspect. They could talk religion and not get irrate, and share stories. It offered a different perspective from that which they lived everyday.

Delvianna said:

Absolutely! That's another issue as well depending on where you work.

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Thats why I think the care industries good because you are always helping in some way which is a basic Christian value. But some organisations are better than others as far as ethics go. Plus I see a lot of church based retail stores and especially help services like job agencies or training programs.

A local church actually built a community center with offices for counsellors, psychologists and legal and working with the local government in different care industries such as aged care and youth justice. So there are a few Christian based organisations. Or secular organisations in the care industry with Christian values.