Because I'm responding to your definition of free will here -->
CoreyD said: "Free will allows one to choose to go against sinful desires, or to choose one course or the other... whether sinful - that is, prone to sin, or not."
I didn't understand you clearly at first.
You said:
I note that the statement that the free will you are describing allows one to choose to go against sinful desires, or with sinful desires
The "or with sinful desires" part was confusing.
So, you note that free will as I described, allows one to choose to go against sinful desires,
despite having sinful desires.
Good., because that is free will as described in the Bible.
The question is, do you accept it?
It doesn't mean free will, the noun.
There is no free will - the noun.
Carnal minded is an adjective describing a type of will, <- will here is a noun. Are you saying the carnal will is a free will?
Carnal minded is an adjective describing a type of will?
Can you substantiate that with some kind of reference, because it sounds like something you came up with.
In response to the question "Is Carnal minded is an adjective describing a type of will?", AI responds this way...
To be carnally minded is not an adjective describing a type of will, but rather an adjective describing a state of mind or a mindset that is focused on fleshly, worldly, and selfish desires, which is contrary to God's will. The term "carnally minded" refers to having a mind governed by the flesh, which is characterized by selfishness, self-will, and a lack of submission to God's law. This mindset is described as being in enmity against God and incapable of submitting to His law. While the carnal mind influences decision-making and behavior, it is not a direct description of the will itself but rather a condition of the mind that opposes spiritual things and leads to death, in contrast to the spiritually minded, which leads to life and peace.
This harmonizes with the scriptures, which says...
Romans 8:1-13
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life [
i]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3 For what the Law could not do, [
j]weak as it was through the flesh, God
did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [
k]sinful flesh and
as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk [
l]according to the flesh but [
m]according to the Spirit.
5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind [
n]set on the flesh is death, but the mind [
o]set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind [
p]set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able
to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is [
q]alive because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [
r]through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
So, you are describing "a state of mind or a mindset that is focused on fleshly, worldly, and selfish desires", which is one's desires that they act on.... or can choose not to act on, as I described.
Free will allows one to choose not to act on sinful desires, nor have a mindset that is against God's will - setting one's mind on the flesh.
One can choose to set one's mind on the spirit, and keep walking by spirit, or allow oneself to be led by the spirit.
Romans 13:11-14
11 Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now [
a]salvation is nearer to us than when we
first believed.
12 The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let’s rid ourselves of the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
13 Let’s [b]behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and debauchery, not in strife and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.
This is a choice you and I have to make.
It is not a built in program that we automatically follow.
These involve action on our part... a doing - willingly; voluntarily; unforced; of one's own accord.... free will.
In case you will make the argument that the spirit dwelling in a person is what makes their will God's, and therefore their will is not free, I have a question for you...
Ephesians 4:30 reads... And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
How does one grieve the spirit? Isaiah 65:10
I understand that you're talking about a philosophical meaning of free will.
I am not.
This is a scriptural definition.
In the moral/immoral context, I'm talking about the scriptural meaning of a free will -> free from sin -> the positive layer of the neutral philosophical free will you're talking about. In reality the free will you're talking about isn't a will at all; it's the circumstance of choosing between one's own carnal will and God's will.
No, you are not describing any scriptural meaning of a free will, at all.
Will means desire in scripture. Our own will is descriptive of our own way according to our own desire, a noun. I quoted Isaiah 53:6 to express what I mean by our own way and further qualified it as NOT God's Way. It's right here -> All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Our own way is our own will because we willed to go our own way.
theló: To will, to wish, to desire, to intend
Free will, is not a desire with free preceding it. Nor is it a will with free preceding it.
I understand that Jesus is talking about Satan's Character. On that we agree. His character is described as lusting, a murderer, and a liar not abiding in truth. Hence those descriptions show his own character/will/desire.
We all build character.
What we become is based on what we desire, and act on.
We can choose to become haughty, or we can choose to become humble.
It all depends on what we choose to do.
What a person is on the inside is not that person's desire.
How can James 1:13-15 be applied if one's character is the same as one's desire?
Are you making these up as you go along, so as to contradict what is said?
What reference can you provide to support your words formation character/will/desire?
The acting on one's own will, is free will? Before you said freedom to choose was a free will. That's two distinct meanings.
Freedom to choose -> Here “free will” = the ability to make a decision between alternatives. <- That’s about choice.
Acting on one’s own will -> Here “free will” = following one’s own desire without interference. <- That’s about desire.
Have you ever heard of the equivocation fallacy? Because the terms will and free keep morphing, and we end up reasoning upon an equivocation. I expect you to next claim the opposite -> NOT acting on one's own will/desire, is free will.
Yes. Being tired of explaining something that has been explained, and finding that the basis explanation is being misapplied, can cause this.
I'll be sure to say no more than I have said, once it's as simple as possible... starting now.