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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

No that's not what she teaches, she taught it happened gradually, Constantine is when the mainstream people switched because Christian Sabbath-keepers were being persecuted . Here is a clear history of how the Sabbath changed from God's Sabbath day, to the first day as predicted Dan7:25, that is not found in the Bible and did not from God. The first day God said is for work and labors and only named one holy day as His, in all of Scripture and that is the Sabbath Exo20:10 Isa58:13.

The first day does not have God's sanctification, it is not one of God's commandments, but a man-made tradition competing with the God of the Bible said, both written and spoken Exo31:18 Isa8:
No that's not what she teaches, she taught it happened gradually, Constantine is when the mainstream people switched because Christian Sabbath-keepers were being persecuted . Here is a clear history of how the Sabbath changed from God's Sabbath day, to the first day as predicted Dan7:25, that is not found in the Bible and did not from God. The first day God said is for work and labors and only named one holy day as His, in all of Scripture and that is the Sabbath Exo20:10 Isa58:13.

The first day does not have God's sanctification, it is not one of God's commandments, but a man-made tradition competing with the God of the Bible said, both written and spoken Exo31:18 Isa8:20
It is probably in the text you linked, but one of the many reason Constantine move the day of rest to Sunday was the desire to distinguish Christianity from Judaism. There were other reasons too. Just like the sign of Thor turned into the sign of the cross to appease Saxons, The day of the sun was used to appease Romans. It is more complicated, but I wanted to throw that in.
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Is Romans 3:25 in the Greek in ANY manuscript version the same? (Some who knows greek - help)

Thanks, that's not clear though - and seems to indicate the opposite of what I've found. KJV modifies nothing - unless I'm confused on your meaning of "modify" - it is a literal translation from greek - hence - no modification. Is this right?

Those other scripture doesn't make sense entirely if you simply swap out blood with death. It's purpose is not to simply designate death - why? Because paul knows that word and can very easily have used it in these places, as he uses that word elsewhere.

Logically speaking. If using the word blood just means death, then the word blood could be removed from the bible and we wouldn't lose any understanding or meaning because the meaning is preserved with death. This is logic. What about the blood of the covenant? The Lords Super. Levitus 17:11 Blood on the altar. Justificaiton, atonement, and apparantly propitiation can not be understood without it.

Blood does not mean death, simply. It's far more fascinating and points to very deep and assuring things when you see it.

The key is in leviticus 17:11 but only in the KJV. If you try to read the ESV it kicks you out of the understanding by replacing blood with life, then in romans 325 it shuts off the link entirely by removing the "object of faith" in the blood which harkens back to it - what else is it referring to?

At this point, the issue is hopelessly clouded in just casual conversations because ultimately, this becomes a translation issue and the biases in the translators.

I personally trust the fruit of the KJV, it sparked the reformation and is the best selling book - christ commands us to judge by the fruit.

I don't know if the nuances are necessary to be understood for salvation - i hope simple believe in his death on the cross will be enough - but it sure is beautiful, the blood, and I will put my faith in it too, and preach it and tell the gospel.

God help us all.
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Persons in creation pre-existing conception?

Not all persons can accept that idea. There are philosophers, mystics and orthodox. The scriptures are a summary and some issues are only touched upon. It invites questions. So Thomas Aquinas in Catholic history sought to make a Christian philosophy bridging with the Greek philosophers. And Aquinas accepted speculative theology.
Acquinas did not present speculative theology as divine truth.
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

It was the location of the Ten Commandments that changed, not the words, do you not agree?

I don't agree that Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon and others didn't have God's Laws written on their hearts. Not that you are saying that, but some say this is only possible in the New Covenant.

But I do agree that the Words were not changed. In my understanding, we now, and for quite awhile have had the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own minds and heart. We are no longer required to be taught by corruptible priests or men. "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:"

We have the Law and Prophets, and the Testimony in our own home. So as Paul said, "we are without excuse". Paul said they were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

But I believe a man still is faced with a free will choice to either "Believe" or "not Believe" the Word of God, and it is called Faith, in my understanding.

from tables of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10

Yes, hearing the Words of God being read, and submitting to them as "Doers" are not the same thing. I think this is Spiritually defining the difference.

The priesthood indeed changed why the law of the priesthood had to change to make room for Jesus who is our High Priest came from the tribe of Judah.

Absolutely! It was time for the Law of the Priesthood, with it's sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins to become old, and vanish, as it was to only be in place, "Till the Seed Shall Come".
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Who then can be saved?

Funny, you follow him yet you don't know what he taught. Well, he taught the "saved by works" version of the gospel, which is the same as "saved by keeping the law version"

If your asking for specific laws and works, then that's an easy one to answer and the answer is "all of them", yes you must keep the whole or the law and all your works must be good or you will be severely punished
I’m not an Arminian so yeah, it’s not surprising that I’ve never read any of his writings. But you’ve accused me of teaching a works based salvation which is just a flat out lie so why would I believe your accusations against Jacob Arminius without any actual quotes of him to support it?
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Gibbons Decline & Fall & Christianity

The fierce and illiterate Barbarians were excluded, during several generations, from the dignities, and even from the orders, of the church. The clergy of Gaul consisted almost entirely of native provincials; the haughty Franks fell at the feet of their subjects, who were dignified with the episcopal character: and the power and riches which had been lost in war, were insensibly recovered by superstition. In all temporal affairs, the Theodosian Code was the universal law of the clergy; but the Barbaric jurisprudence had liberally provided for their personal safety; a sub-deacon was equivalent to two Franks; the antrustion, and priest, were held in similar estimation: and the life of a bishop was appreciated far above the common standard, at the price of nine hundred pieces of gold. The Romans communicated to their conquerors the use of the Christian religion and Latin language; but their language and their religion had alike degenerated from the simple purity of the Augustan, and Apostolic age. The progress of superstition and Barbarism was rapid and universal: the worship of the saints concealed from vulgar eyes the God of the Christians; and the rustic dialect of peasants and soldiers was corrupted by a Teutonic idiom and pronunciation. Yet such intercourse of sacred and social communion eradicated the distinctions of birth and victory; and the nations of Gaul were gradually confounded under the name and government of the Franks.

The Franks, after they mingled with their Gallic subjects, might have imparted the most valuable of human gifts, a spirit and system of constitutional liberty. Under a king, hereditary, but limited, the chiefs and counsellors might have debated at Paris, in the palace of the Cæsars: the adjacent field, where the emperors reviewed their mercenary legions. would have admitted the legislative assembly of freemen and warriors; and the rude model, which had been sketched in the woods of Germany, might have been polished and improved by the civil wisdom of the Romans. But the careless Barbarians, secure of their personal independence, disdained the labor of government: the annual assemblies of the month of March were silently abolished; and the nation was separated, and almost dissolved, by the conquest of Gaul. The monarchy was left without any regular establishment of justice, of arms, or of revenue. The successors of Clovis wanted resolution to assume, or strength to exercise, the legislative and executive powers, which the people had abdicated: the royal prerogative was distinguished only by a more ample privilege of rapine and murder; and the love of freedom, so often invigorated and disgraced by private ambition, was reduced, among the licentious Franks, to the contempt of order, and the desire of impunity. Seventy-five years after the death of Clovis, his grandson, Gontran, king of Burgundy, sent an army to invade the Gothic possessions of Septimania, or Languedoc. The troops of Burgundy, Berry, Auvergne, and the adjacent territories, were excited by the hopes of spoil. They marched, without discipline, under the banners of German, or Gallic, counts: their attack was feeble and unsuccessful; but the friendly and hostile provinces were desolated with indiscriminate rage. The cornfields, the villages, the churches themselves, were consumed by fire: the inhabitants were massacred, or dragged into captivity; and, in the disorderly retreat, five thousand of these inhuman savages were destroyed by hunger or intestine discord. When the pious Gontran reproached the guilt or neglect of their leaders, and threatened to inflict, not a legal sentence, but instant and arbitrary execution, they accused the universal and incurable corruption of the people. “No one,” they said, “any longer fears or respects his king, his duke, or his count. Each man loves to do evil, and freely indulges his criminal inclinations. The most gentle correction provokes an immediate tumult, and the rash magistrate, who presumes to censure or restrain his seditious subjects, seldom escapes alive from their revenge.” It has been reserved for the same nation to expose, by their intemperate vices, the most odious abuse of freedom; and to supply its loss by the spirit of honor and humanity, which now alleviates and dignifies their obedience to an absolute sovereign.

The Visigoths had resigned to Clovis the greatest part of their Gallic possessions; but their loss was amply compensated by the easy conquest, and secure enjoyment, of the provinces of Spain. From the monarchy of the Goths, which soon involved the Suevic kingdom of Gallicia, the modern Spaniards still derive some national vanity; but the historian of the Roman empire is neither invited, nor compelled, to pursue the obscure and barren series of their annals. The Goths of Spain were separated from the rest of mankind by the lofty ridge of the Pyrenæan mountains: their manners and institutions, as far as they were common to the Germanic tribes, have been already explained. I have anticipated, in the preceding chapter, the most important of their ecclesiastical events, the fall of Arianism, and the persecution of the Jews; and it only remains to observe some interesting circumstances which relate to the civil and ecclesiastical constitution of the Spanish kingdom.

After their conversion from idolatry or heresy, the Frank and the Visigoths were disposed to embrace, with equal submission, the inherent evils and the accidental benefits, of superstition.
But the prelates of France, long before the extinction of the Merovingian race, had degenerated into fighting and hunting Barbarians. They disdained the use of synods; forgot the laws of temperance and chastity; and preferred the indulgence of private ambition and luxury to the general interest of the sacerdotal profession. The bishops of Spain respected themselves, and were respected by the public: their indissoluble union disguised their vices, and confirmed their authority; and the regular discipline of the church introduced peace, order, and stability, into the government of the state. From the reign of Recared, the first Catholic king, to that of Witiza, the immediate predecessor of the unfortunate Roderic, sixteen national councils were successively convened. The six metropolitans, Toledo, Seville, Merida, Braga, Tarragona, and Narbonne, presided according to their respective seniority; the assembly was composed of their suffragan bishops, who appeared in person, or by their proxies; and a place was assigned to the most holy, or opulent, of the Spanish abbots. During the first three days of the convocation, as long as they agitated the ecclesiastical question of doctrine and discipline, the profane laity was excluded from their debates; which were conducted, however, with decent solemnity. But, on the morning of the fourth day, the doors were thrown open for the entrance of the great officers of the palace, the dukes and counts of the provinces, the judges of the cities, and the Gothic nobles, and the decrees of Heaven were ratified by the consent of the people. The same rules were observed in the provincial assemblies, the annual synods, which were empowered to hear complaints, and to redress grievances; and a legal government was supported by the prevailing influence of the Spanish clergy. The bishops, who, in each revolution, were prepared to flatter the victorious, and to insult the prostrate labored, with diligence and success, to kindle the flames of persecution, and to exalt the mitre above the crown. Yet the national councils of Toledo, in which the free spirit of the Barbarians was tempered and guided by episcopal policy, have established some prudent laws for the common benefit of the king and people. The vacancy of the throne was supplied by the choice of the bishops and palatines; and after the failure of the line of Alaric, the regal dignity was still limited to the pure and noble blood of the Goths. The clergy, who anointed their lawful prince, always recommended, and sometimes practised, the duty of allegiance; and the spiritual censures were denounced on the heads of the impious subjects, who should resist his authority, conspire against his life, or violate, by an indecent union, the chastity even of his widow. But the monarch himself, when he ascended the throne, was bound by a reciprocal oath to God and his people, that he would faithfully execute this important trust. The real or imaginary faults of his administration were subject to the control of a powerful aristocracy; and the bishops and palatines were guarded by a fundamental privilege, that they should not be degraded, imprisoned, tortured, nor punished with death, exile, or confiscation, unless by the free and public judgment of their peers. (The History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 4, Chap. 38, pgs. 94 - 97 of the Everyman's Library edition)

The supposed Church of Christ reduced to just another superstitious religion of the world. Caught up in the unending and petty struggles for power and dominance, which plague this planet with untold wars, persecutions, abuse of every kind and nature, and all the continuous chaos and confusion associated with the same. Is such not a better description of BABYLON THE GREAT, than that of the true Church of Christ?
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Israeli doctor says detained Palestinians are undergoing ‘routine’ amputations for handcuff injuries

It seems like they've been caught on video sexually abusing a prisoner. Netanyahu views this as a PR problem (subtext: carry on abusing Palestinian prisoners just don't get caught doing it). It also seems as though many Israelis support this kind of abuse.

Israeli military's top lawyer resigns over leak of video allegedly showing abuse of Palestinian detainee
Israeli protesters enter Sde Teiman army base after soldiers held over Gaza detainee abuse
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-pa...ost-serious-pr-attack-against-israel-to-date/
You can see videos of Israelis doing and saying some terrible things for sure.
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Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

Acts 16:30-31, Rom. 10, Gal. 3 are narrative contexts that use aorists to describe how people experience salvation. These show experiential order; they do not settle the ontological question of what makes the human subject able to believe in the first place.
But they do in fact clearly indicate that verb tense doesn’t imply sequence which is what you’re whole argument is based on.
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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

I agree we can not be sinless however , I do not agree that we are not able to make a moral choice.
Nor do I. . . nor did I say that we cannot.

But we cannot make all moral choices. . .can you choose to life a completely sinless life?
You cannot. . .but you are still responsible for your sin.
Being unable to make all moral choices, our will is not completely free.

God has locked up all men in sin so that only his mercy (through faith in Jesus Christ) will save them (Ro 11:32).
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Trump admin. concedes Maryland man from El Salvador was mistakenly deported/sent to mega prison - shrugs 'nothing can be done' [ETA: oh but it can!]

Judge Says DOJ May Be Vindictively Punishing Abrego Garcia for Challenging Removal to El Salvador

A federal judge in Nashville ruled that the Department of Justice’s criminal case against Maryland man Kilmar Abrego Garcia may be a form of punishment against him for legally challenging his abrupt removal to an El Salvador megaprison earlier this year.

After mistaken deportation, Abrego Garcia fights smuggling charges

U.S. District Judge Waverly Crenshaw will hear evidence on motions from the defense asking him to dismiss the charges and throw out some of the evidence.

Abrego Garcia has asked Crenshaw to dismiss the smuggling charges on the grounds of “selective or vindictive prosecution.”

A Department of Homeland Security agent testified at an earlier hearing that he did not begin investigating the traffic stop until after the U.S. Supreme Court said in April that the Trump administration must work to bring back Abrego Garcia.

In a recent ruling, [probably the above] Crenshaw found “some evidence that the prosecution against him may be vindictive" and said many statements by Trump administration officials “raise cause for concern." Crenshaw specifically cited a statement by Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, on a Fox News Channel program, that seemed to suggest the Justice Department charged Abrego Garcia because he won his wrongful-deportation case.

The two sides have been sparring over whether senior Justice Department officials, including Blanche, can be required to testify in the case.

Another motion from Abrego Garcia asks the judge to suppress evidence in the case. It claims the 2022 traffic stop that ultimately led to the smuggling charges was illegal, so evidence from that stop should not be used at trial.

Attorneys for the government argue that the trooper made an honest mistake [that the limit was 65 when it was actually 70].
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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

""Free will," a notion of man not stated in Scripture, means the power to make all moral choices.
Pelagius is the author of that human notion, based on his reasoning that to be responsible for sin means man's will must be free.
That notion contradicts Jn 8:34, where Jesus states we are slaves to sin. . .slaves are not free.
By that Jesus is saying that man cannot choose to live a sinless life.
Man does not have that power, he is unable to choose to live a sinless life, and he is responsible for his sin.

God has locked up all men in sin so that only his mercy will save them (Ro 11:32).
I agree we can not be sinless however , I do not agree that we are not able to make a moral choice.
Thanks for sharing!
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

It's the Sabbatarians who are passing judgement. Accusing practically all of Christianity of being in open disobedience to God. Rebelling against God's law and putting traditions of men in place of God's law and commandments. That's what sows discord in this matter. In playground terms it's "we obey God and you guys don't".

If the attitude was we choose to be Sabbatarians, but it's alright if most Christians aren't, there wouldn't be enmity. And indeed on our side we say go ahead and be a Sabbatarian if you want to.
There should be no enmity between brothers and sisters in Christ. Unfortunately, it goes back all the way to the First Council of Jerusalem, even though the topic was a bit different. I expressed my opinion in #316. People are passionate about their views, and it is difficult to keep things civil. From what I have seen, the SDA church has had its share of condemnation. If you want to refute their beliefs, you should not be surprised that they defend them with passion. After all, they are defending the Law of God. I think the SDA people posting have done a very good job keeping things civil.
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Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

Define "saved." Regeneration is one aspect of the ordo salutis, not the totality of the salvation package. This text describes the outward, experiential moment of salvation (the human response of faith), not the ontological reality of regeneration. There's nothing here contradicting the position that the jailer's belief is the visible fruit of what God has already wrought inwardly.

Same thing with Gal 3:14, Rom. 10:9, 13. Why are you equating "salvation" / "promise" with regeneration?
Would the jailer have been saved if he didn’t believe? The passage specifically states that in order for the jailer to be saved he must first believe. You’re saying that the jailer was already saved before he believed which is not what the passage says at all.
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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

Are you stating that our choices are not "free" from the influence of sin? We are, in a spiritual sense, bound by sin, which limits our true freedom thus free will does not exisit?
""Free will," a notion of man not stated in Scripture, means the power to make all moral choices.
Pelagius is the author of that human notion, based on his reasoning that to be responsible for sin means man's will must be free.
That notion contradicts Jn 8:34, where Jesus states we are slaves to sin. . .slaves are not free.
By that Jesus is saying that man cannot choose to live a sinless life.
Man does not have that power, he is unable to choose to live a sinless life, and he is responsible for his sin.

God has locked up all men in sin so that only his mercy will save them (Ro 11:32).
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Trump administration must release billions in SNAP funds, judge says

I read that as '...demanding that I do it for you'. Aren't we all in this together? We've all got a part to play.
Sure. But I predict that the shutdown will end sometime this week. Apparently, there was a leaked memo that revealed the Democrats' plan was to cause as much pain as possible to sway some important elections occurring on Tuesday. Although I cannot confirm the authenticity. But my sources have been correct more often than not. But after Tuesday, their leverage will no longer be needed, and they will reopen the government.
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Prince Andrew gives up royal titles after string of scandals

They are just normal people but they have been born into positions of duty and responsibility, whether they like it or not.
I can imagine both the constraints and privileges of a "royal" childhood really messing with your head.
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Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

That's not how aspect works. The present participle ὁ μὴ πιστεύων ("the one not believing") describes one's present, ongoing state of unbelief, not their past or future category. John contrasts two groups as they now stand: those believing (ὁ πιστεύων) and those not believing (ὁ μὴ πιστεύων). The point is qualitative distinction, not outcome.
But is their unbelief the result of them being judged already? That’s the point of quoting the passage? Is the tense of the verbs dictating sequence?
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President Trump Responds to Judge’s Ruling on SNAP Benefits

People are turning their backs to the horrors created by allowing so many unvetted individuals into our country. Suffering humans exploited for more votes.
No one going through the asylum process is unvetted. You didn't answer my question. Which is more humane?
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Thank you for this.

New Testament means New Covenant. Jesus lived in the New Covenant and I understand why it would be convenient for people to say the New Covenant started after His death so therefore we would not have to follow the example of God who is Jesus that became flesh or follow and believe His teaching, as sadly so many people believe and teach. His covenant was ratified by His death but started much sooner.

In my studies, God's Promised New Covenant didn't have anything to do with His 10 Commandments or His Laws defining them. It was the Priesthood that changed, in my view. But God placed us in a world with religions that promote doctrines and traditions from the heart of men. Just as HE did Abraham and Noah and Jesus.

What a great topic.
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President Trump Responds to Judge’s Ruling on SNAP Benefits

TRAFFICKED, EXPLOITED, AND MISSING: MIGRANT
CHILDREN VICTIMS OF THE BIDEN-HARRIS
ADMINISTRATION Joint Hearing NOVEMBER 19, 2024
"As the administration's border crisis continues to spiral
out of control, the number of unaccompanied minors arriving at
the Southwest Border has increased greatly, turning the
situation at the border into a devastating humanitarian
catastrophe. In fact, the Biden-Harris administration has
encountered nearly 530,000 alien children at the border to
date. In comparison, the Trump administration had less than
half that number over the same period of time.
I think America, we should ask ourselves, why are so many
children arriving at the border alone and afraid, sometimes in
the hands of an unconfirmed relative with no apparent
indications of family connection? These children show up with
arbitrary phone numbers and addresses scribbled on their arms
as if they're, like, packaging arriving at someone's warehouse
or doorstep. Some children that arrive at the border appear to
be drugged, preventing law enforcement authorities from
properly questioning them about those they're traveling with.
This is outrageous, and it's an affront to the very core
principles that form the morality of any decent nation.
Certainly, Americans should not accept this moving forward.
The purpose of this hearing is to put some hard facts on
the table so that we can work together on both sides of the
aisle and address actual solutions.
The Biden-Harris administration has stated that they have
the most humanitarian border policies in history, yet we
witness these horrors that are happening, and there's nothing
humanitarian about enabling criminal cartels to exploit, abuse,
and profit from vulnerable children."
Wow, the poster mentioned propaganda and you counter with the false claim of all these missing children under Biden being trafficked.

Which is more humane? Adhering to the asylum laws and providing an opportunity for families and kids to get out of their life challenging situations just as everyone else has come to America in the past? Or shutting that door, and not only shutting that door but narrowing those opportunities based on the color of one's skin?
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