It is a human construct of Calvinism. That basically states a person is a dead body and can not on their own believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. God must first make that person alive, by making the person born again and then they can believe in Jesus.

So they say a person is born again and then believes.
A person, according to Calvinism is born again, so they can believe in Jesus (or whatever they say), so they can be born again. But it does not end there, because they then say, if the person does not preserve in the faith the person was never born again and was not a true believer

I do not believe in the Calvinist theology at all. i believe even though a sinner, God has given every person the ability to exercise belief and that God does not give a person a special belief so a person can believe in Jesus for Eternal Life.

That is the reason for The Bible, so as to witness to fallen man. That God's free gift of Eternal life is received by belief in Jesus.

Johnson sets record refusing to swear in Adelita Grijalva for 36 days after she won election​

Johnson initially promised to seat Grijalva whenever she requested it, but then backtracked and said he’d only do so after Democrats in the U.S. Senate agreed to support a stopgap spending bill to reopen the government.

[Also, the House isn't doing any business at all.]

Because Johnson has refused to seat Grijalva, she now holds the record for the longest delay in seating a member of Congress following a special election, a distinction previously held by Rep. Jimmy Gomez, of California. But there’s a huge difference: Gomez requested the delay due to family issues, while Grijalva and other Democrats have repeatedly demanded that Johnson swear in Grijalva.

ThatRobGuy said:

I don't know that we can sum up the legacies of Arafat, Kissinger, and Gorbachev as being that of "great individuals who just made a few bad decisions, but other than that, they were really great folks"

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No.
They would be examples of the times when we disagree with the committee, sure. I'm not sure why you'd include Gorbachev on the list though perhaps you're more familiar with his legacy?

ThatRobGuy said:

In the case of Kyi, I think that one is a case that would highlight of some of the short-sighted thinking along the lines of "anyone who represents resistance against a bad guy, must be one of the good guys/gals".

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Pray, BEFORE she was given teh award, what exactly did she do that was so awful?

ThatRobGuy said:

That's not always the case. e.g. Castro wasn't a "good guy" despite fighting against Batista (who was a "bad guy")

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If Castro didn't get teh award, I'm not sure why he'd be brought up.

ThatRobGuy said:

Anyone affiliated with a revolutionary movement/party that engages in "uprisings", coups, etc... is always going to have the propensity to be a little bit of a loose cannon.

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Careful...that's kind of...you know....United States of America.

Always in His Presence said:

Because religious traditions that are not supported by Holy Scripture are extra Biblical. Extra-biblical refers to information or content that exists outside of the Bible, including texts or teachings that are not part of the canonical scriptures.

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So what if it's not explicit in Scripture. It doesn't need to be explicit in Scripture for it to be Divine Revelation. Scripture itself doesn't say all Divine Revelation is explicit in Scripture. So as far as I can tell, you are adding to Scripture, a no-no.

So for the sake of argument, let's stipulate that Purgatory isn't taught in Scripture. I still say WHO CARES. You haven't shown me that all Divine Revelation is contained in Scripture.

Yarddog said:

Sorry, I didn't proof read. It was supposed to say, "is fact".

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sorry - your say so is not sufficient to establish fact.

You made the claim and refuse to support it - that is plain for all to see -

concretecamper said:

I am asking why it has to be explicit in Scripture in order to be a Divinely revealed truth. If you can explain that to me, please do.

If you can't, my answer is "who cares if it's not explicit in Scripture. It is still a Divinely revealed truth."

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Because religious traditions that are not supported by Holy Scripture are extra Biblical. Extra-biblical refers to information or content that exists outside of the Bible, including texts or teachings that are not part of the canonical scriptures.

It is plainly stated in the title of the thread:

Is purgatory a Biblical or extra biblical teaching?​

SavedByGrace3 said:

No, it won't. "Trump could leave the White House and turn the Presidency over to Kamala." That would solve a lot of Democrats' problems. But obviously, he will not, nor should he. Nor should the majority party cave to the minority party and allow them to add 1.5 trillion to the debt. The Dems are holding the nation hostage by knowingly and intentionally shutting down the gov with 13 consecutive no votes. This is their doing.
Elections have consequences. For the Republicans to abandon the voters who empowered them to run the government would be a betrayal of democracy. It is odd that the Democrats, who seem so jealous of "democracy," betray that process over and over again and want it to happen again here. Do you want to run the show? Get some policies the voters can get behind, and then you might win some elections. Until then, let democracy rule. Open the gov. Vote yes on the CR and get back to business.

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Absolutely. All the things the Democrats want can be negotiated later.

I have not spoken to a best friend in decades, despite us never having a falling out and neither having anything against each other. Sometimes people just grow apart.

durangodawood said:

Summary execution is not justice as we conceive it in the Christian west.

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Depends on the law. This isn't the only case where this true. A boat load of terrorists with a dirty bomb deserve to be summarily destroyed. An airplane on its way from a foreign country to crash into downtown New York would be another example, and it would have innocents on board.

In this case we KNOW for a fact than drugs being brought in ARE going to kill Americans juat as assuredly as a dirty bomb. Justice is served in these circumstances. Once they reach the shores a different set of laws kicks in.

But up until then, the rules and laws are different.

Yes the beginning of a story.
For example, for "The Purple Wig", it begins like this:
"Mr Edward Nutt, the industrious editor of the Daily Reformer, sat at his desk, opening letters and marking proofs to the merry tune of a typewriter, worked by a vigorous young lady. He was a stoutish, fair man, in his shirt-sleeves; his movements were resolute, his mouth firm and his tones final; but his round, rather babyish blue eyes had a bewildered and even wistful look that rather contradicted all this. Nor indeed was the expression altogether misleading....."

Pepperdoodle said:

So what is your motivation to discuss/debate things online?

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To interact. Really, to interact for entertainment. No one's going to change any minds. Nothing more lofty than that.

essentialsaltes said:

IANAL, so my gut isn't worth much, but it seems to me that there has to be an emergency to call out the Guard, and there just isn't one in any of these cities.

It reminds me of a story (largely true) about Abraham Lincoln.

Abraham Lincoln faced with some thorny issue that could be settled by a twist of language, or a slight abuse of power, asks his questioner how many legs would a dog have, if we called the dog’s tail, a leg. “Five,” the questioner responds confident in his mathematical ability to do simple addition.

“No,” Lincoln says. “Calling a dog’s tail a leg, doesn’t make it a leg.”

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I love a good Winston Churchill quote and a good Abraham Lincoln story!

But sadly this brings to mind a New York Times piece about what America has done to itself by electing Trump a second time. Now that the world is dealing with Trump unleashed, this New York Times article said America could elect Abraham Lincoln himself for the next administration, and the rest of us would still be reluctant to engage America because how long until they reelected another Trump?

essentialsaltes said:

The firings of lawyers at DOJ and in the military is terrible. Particularly in the DOJ where Trump's chosen replacements are unqualified.

As I've said elsewhere...


We want lawyers to seek Justice and uphold the law; Trump wants them to get the result he wants. If you say there's not enough evidence to charge Letitia James, you're fired and Trump will find someone who will do it.

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I cannot think of another modern OECD leader who has revolted me as much as this man and his petty vindictive malignant narcissism. When Australia had an election this year and reelected our labour leader, Trump's comments were not about the great alliance between these two nations, or trade, or anything of material importance to the normal way great statesman speak about each other. It was the usual self-congratulatory assessment that America's relationship with Australia would be great because... Wait for it... "Anthony has said nice things about me!"

I know in my head it's an incurable disorder - but I just find it so revolting. He's constantly seeking his next heat of narcissistic supply. It's like he's reporting to us - the audience - "See Mum and Dad? That man said nice things about me!"

bèlla said:

With the consensus being, if we’re giving away money it should go towards Americans first not foreigners.

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I don't disagree with that. I think Americans would do.much better if we just didn't have to give away so much money to the government.

In my opinion we give to much money away to foreign countries period.

But thats not the consensus of a lot of people. And often those who suppkrt doing so, only suppkrt giving money to certain types of countries. Like not wanting to give money to Israel or Argentina, but very happy to give money to Somalia or Ukraine.

In the idea of America first, I would want to know, what the country is going to do for us in order to receive the money. What are we going get out of it and is it cost effective? Its o e thing if we have so much money in the coffers that we don't know what to do with all of it. But we are way too far in the red for that.

And I think EVERY able bodied American ought to be paying taxes. No one should be exempt from it if they are able bodied and can work. If you are going to be receiving money from your fellow Americans then you should do all you can so you receive as little as possible. I mean $65,000 in benefits and you are contributing little to nothing? That's not acceptable.

And I most certainly blame ALL parties for this. Republicans and Democrats. The Republicans have proven themselves to be all hot air with some of their complaints vs their actions.

Gregory Thompson said:

it looks like both parties are making a mess so democracy stops existing in America?

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No, just the Democrats

Apple Sky said:

David can check all he likes but there's no denying that the firmament is solid.

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You're missing the point, I suspect deliberately.

David Lamb said:

Where does the bible say that the firmament is a solid dome? ........................................................................................ I have looked up all the reference in the bible to "firmament" and not one mentions that it is either solid, or a dome.

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Apple Sky said:

Job 37:18
Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

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Your post was in answer to his.
His spoke of the firmament, you answered him by quoting a post about the sky. Which you say are different things.

Or, to put it another way, you don't know what you are talking about.

BobRyan said:

Matt 24 makes no mention at all of a future 7 year tribulation

Armageddon is in Rev 16, Rev 19 and Rev 20 with Gog and Magog gathered against the Holy City in Rev 21.

That is not mentioned at all in Matt 24. So then just sticking with what we have in Matt 24 since it so explicitly puts the tribulation section before the rapture event in vs 30-31

No mention of that at all in vs 20. But I do agree that it fits in with the tribulation events prior to vs 29. And of course AFTER the tribulation we have vs 30-31 rapture as vs 29 reminds us

The whole point of this thread is the detail about the post-trib rapture as we see it in Matt 24:29-31

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Jesus said the rapture will occur before the Trib. The Trib starts in Rev 6:1-2.

Jesus said in Revelation 3:10 (ESV):Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

There are two groups cited in Rev 3:10. "You" refers to all believers. "Those" only refers to unbelievers who will go through the 7-year Tribulation period.

The unbelievers in Rev 3:10 are specifically cited as “those who dwell on the earth,” after “you” (all believers) will be snatched away to Heaven. Two examples of “those who dwell on the earth” as hardcore unbelievers are Rev 11:10 and Rev 6:10.

All believers will be raptured to Heaven before the 7-year Tribulation period. Rev 3:10 says we will be kept from "the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world." That is the 7-year Trib.

Wole Soyinka, Nigerian Nobel laureate and Trump critic, says US visa revoked​

Soyinka, 91, who recently compared US president to Idi Amin, says ‘I have no visa – I am banned’

“I want to assure the consulate … that I’m very content with the revocation of my visa,” Soyinka, who won the 1986 Nobel prize for literature, told a news conference.

Soyinka previously held permanent residency in the United States, though he destroyed his green card after Donald Trump’s first election in 2016.

Reading the letter [revoking his visa] aloud to journalists in Lagos, Nigeria’s economic centre, he jokingly called it a “rather curious love letter from an embassy”, while telling any organisations hoping to invite him to the United States “not to waste their time”.

“I have no visa. I am banned,” Soyinka said.

keras said:

Daniel 12:10b ....only the wise will understand.
Obviously, most people will not understand the Prophesies. I do my best to promote what the Prophets tell us, but those with their own interpretations are blinded to the truth. Isaiah 29:9-12

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I could say the same for you.

I don't agree with number 5 of your OP - Jesus' blood was the blood of the New Covenant.
I don't agree that we will need to offer animal sacrifices in a new temple - Jesus said no such thing.
I don't agree that Christians will go to the Holy Land and the Lord will return after that.

But instead of saying, "that's an interesting view/interpretation, let's discuss it", I am wrong because I disagree with you. In your last post, not only am I wrong, I'm unwise and blinded too.

Well you just carry on.

Strong in Him said:

So why, when David said he'd been checking verses on the firmament did you post one from Job which spoke of the sky?

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David can check all he likes but there's no denying that the firmament is solid.

RamiC said:

So Jesus says so at some point? Or He indicates that there is a purgatory? Where does the Bible record this, which verse or verses?

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See post #27. Can you answer my question?