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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

How is the Economy Doing Right Now?

DISTUISHING TWO TYPES OF TRUMP EFFECTS ON MIDDLE CLAS
1) Trump has cut programs for the middle class and the poor among us. He has also emasculated our health care, health, education and environmental agencies and policies, as well as R&D (especially in health issues).

2) Trump's tariffs hace made products more expensive through his tariffs, including those used by small businesses. They are also killing the farming sector
=====================
HOWEVER, TRUMP HAS NOT HURT THE MACRO ECON0MY
A) The stock market sets records each week. BTW, stocks are NOT only owned by the rich but also by the middle class.
B) You quote Amazon layoffs as if Amazon is hurting. AI is allowing them to shed workers. Amazon is doing fine. Amazon is forecast to need 600,000 new workers in the next 8 years. OF COURSE, almost all of these jobs will be filled by robots.
C) There is definitely a crisis among those "workers' who are untrained for the hundreds of thousands of jobs that WILL be available to humans. I put the word in quotations because so many youngsters feel entitled and really don't expect to have to work.
=================
MY BOTTOM LINE
We should distinguish between the effects on the Middle Class of Trump and the effects of automation and AI.
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Which Groups Are More Likely To Believe That Violence Is Sometimes Necessary To Gain Political Aims?

Certainly I wouldn't compare it with stats from the Republican....well, I can't think of a civil term so I'll let you guess based on facts from real news.
Facts wouldnt be from the Republican.... they are just facts. You don't want to compare. That would be a mistake. But if you really want to we can.
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Trump third term

Does anyone here actually admire Trump? Would want their children to imitate him?
Is Trump a perfect man? No he is a flawed human being like me and every other person on this forum. Yes I admire Trump and I am proud of it. He is a patriot to a greater degree than most politicians today and certainly more so than the majority of current liberal leadership. He probably is the most politically, and legally attacked president in the history of this nation . He has had attacks on his life, attacks by the press and a rouge legal system as well as on family members. Constant attacks by members of this forum continue. Yes I admire the man !
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

It's maskerovka, strategic deception to create a pretext to use military force against Venezuela (in another attempted "regime change"? That worked out so well last time the US tried it...), even though such aggression ordinarily would violate international law.

The current administration had a fair number of people electing him for his "anti-war" rhetoric, but in fact it seems like Trump has no serious intentions to restrain the use of violence in international relations. But considering that the president is a convicted felon, this kind of skulduggery should come as no surprise to anybody looking beneath the superficial spectacle.
  • Winner
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Trump live updates: President expands ‘narco’ boat strikes to Pacific Ocean as 8th boat is struck

If that is how it is supposed to work, then we would have laws governing that. We have laws, but the laws and court precedent say that what is being done is lawful.

Which law and court precedent are you referring to?
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Trump live updates: President expands ‘narco’ boat strikes to Pacific Ocean as 8th boat is struck

Speaking to CNN Thursday, Democratic Representative Sara Jacobs said she was told in a Pentagon briefing “that they do not need to positively identify individuals on the vessel to do the strikes” and that was part of the reason why the administration has not sought to detain or prosecute the survivors of the strikes, “because they could not satisfy the evidentiary burden.”

Far simpler to kill them.
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'They’ll never find me as long as I’m smart,' wrote St. Paul man charged in anti-LGBTQ vandalism spree

Do you know this guy is a 'barstool conservative'? Fill us in.

"Barstool conservative" describes somebody whose political conservativism is rooted more in bigotry, disgust, and grievances, than actual principles, like respect for virtues like prudence, subisidiarity, etc.
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The Schumer Shutdown

No, it won't.
They could try it, see what happens. Worth a shot, right?

"Trump could leave the White House and turn the Presidency over to Kamala." That would solve a lot of Democrats' problems. But obviously, he will not, nor should he.
Dunno if that would solve everything, but it doesn't really matter. Even if he wanted to do something like that, it wouldn't be easy. JD Vance would have to resign first, then Trump would need to appoint Harris to replace him and then resign himself. Granted, the GOP did something like that once before, but I doubt they'll do it again.

Nor should the majority party cave to the minority party and allow them to add 1.5 trillion to the debt.
Instead, the party not in power should cave and allow health care subsidies to end for millions of Americans who need them. Yup, that's the way these things usually go. Democrats have finally shown some backbone, something they haven't had much of recently.

The Dems are holding the nation hostage by knowingly and intentionally shutting down the gov with 13 consecutive no votes. This is their doing.
And the GOP could end it if they'd be willing to negotiate on health care subsidies in good faith. But they aren't.

Elections have consequences. For the Republicans to abandon the voters who empowered them to run the government would be a betrayal of democracy.
And so would the Democrats abandoning the Americans who rely on health care subsidies to be able to afford health care. Like the Republicans want to.

It is odd that the Democrats, who seem so jealous of "democracy," betray that process over and over again and want it to happen again here.
Nothing the Democrats have done here violates the process of democracy. They're just not letting the Republicans end health care subsidies for Americans who need them, by using every legal tool they have available to them.

Do you want to run the show? Get some policies the voters can get behind, and then you might win some elections. Until then, let democracy rule. Open the gov. Vote yes on the CR and get back to business.
Sure, let the Republicans get everything they want, and then, of course they'll negotiate on health care subsidies in good faith.

Lucy football bw.jpg


-- A2SG, is it rerun season again?
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'They’ll never find me as long as I’m smart,' wrote St. Paul man charged in anti-LGBTQ vandalism spree

He's definitely right wing, but I'm not seeing much (based on his actions) that would indicate that he's a libertarian.

"Libertarian" seems to be used alot as a label by folks that are basically "barstool conservatives".
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The Schumer Shutdown


Even The Washington Post is blaming the Democratic Party for this shutdown and is calling for the Democrats to vote to end the shutdown.
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‘Wandering Souls’ or Demonic Masquerade? Why This Debate Is Still Stirring Exorcists and Theologians

This is a strange topic. I've previously said that my Presbyterian pastor predicted that "I think you'll be doing a cleaning job for a short time. You won't like it much, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost." He added "I think you've seen this ghost before."

When he said that circa 1990/91, I thought it was over the top. I knew how accurate he was but even so - ghost? cleaning? seen it before?

But fast forward to 2006 I did a cleaning job for about four months (not long); didn't like it much and heard about a ghost. It appeared to be the soul of a manager who committed suicide in the store he was managing sometime in the 1960's, and I just happened to be cleaning the same store.

The young bloke who showed me the cleaning round was scared of it. He said he didn't like being there after 7pm. One night ALL the stock on one complete row of shelves jumped up and landed on the floor. He could also push a very heavy buffer around with one finger as something was pushing it with him.

Casting my mind back after this happened, I realised I'd seen this ghost before when my father and I were returning from a camping trip circa 1970. Mind you I'd never said anything to the pastor - he just "knew".

Early in my Christian life I spoke briefly with another Presbyterian minister who had a ministry with street kids. He said he'd seen too much of the demonic. But he also made a comment that "There's a very strange psychic world out there!" and that's stuck with me.

I think dabbling in that "strange world" is best left to the experts. As for not being judged straight away, I think they are and part of that judgment is that they may have to spend some time doing a part or all of their purgatory bound to one place, which I think was the case for the suicidal manager.

Other than that the experts can have it as far as I'm concerned.
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The Schumer Shutdown


Will the Democratic Party listen to the Teamsters Union? I doubt it.
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Average consumer now carries $6,329 in credit card debt. 'People are stretched,' expert says

I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet.
It's always a good idea to watch a video before posting it. I'm very meticulous in screening videos before I post them, to make sure that they don't violate any CF rules.
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The Schumer Shutdown

And the dems could end this by convincing just 5 of their own people to cooperate with the majority and reopen the government.
Right. And, when the Republicans get everything they want, they will, of course, negotiate on health care subsidies in good faith.

Lucy football bw.jpg


The Republicans, the federal workers, and the SNAP recipients all want that to happen. But if those 5 democrats keep being opposed to it, then yes, we'll continue being at a standstill.
It's the only leverage the Democrats have at this point to keep health care subsidies. If the Republicans were willing to negotiate in good faith, this wouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for admitting that the democrats are putting the country through an extended shutdown in order to have "leverage".
Also note that the Republicans are putting the country through this because they refuse to negotiate in good faith on health care subsidies. I know they don't want people to remember that, but some of us do.

Air traffic controllers and other federal employees working without pay to be leveraged by the democrats. Poor people will soon be leveraged by the democrats as well by making them starve without their food benefits.
And what are the Republicans doing for them? Remember, they made massive personnel cuts on government workers across the board through DOGE, they didn't seem all that concerned for these people at that point, did they?

What ever happened to "We're all in this together" rather than "sacrifice the well-being of Americans as a way to hopefully stick it to Trump"?
Democrats found that Republicans only say things like that when the want others to go along with them. They're out to achieve the goals of Project 2025 and cut personnel and services willy-nilly, with nary a care to the ramifications of those cuts, and impose tariffs that hurt consumers in the end. They didn't care about "we're all in this together" back then, I don't buy that they all of a sudden care so much now.

-- A2SG, the Republican version of "we're all in this together" seems to be "we'll get ours, and who cares about the rest of ya"....
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For those that do not know, every penny starts in Greene County [TN]. Save jobs in Greene County! [ETA: Adios penny!]

I said nothing about corporate greed. I spoke of losing hundreds of millions of revenue to 'save' tens of millions of spending. This increases the deficit.
You’re complaining about shoppers saving $8 billion that you want corporations to keep so they can pay taxes on it
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The government shutdown and keeping the government open, or re-opening it, etc. My prediction now.

So the Democrats filibuster and shut down the government and how does that address anything? They grab their marbles and go home and nothing gets solved and big chunks of the government have shut their doors, sometimes hurting needy people. I'm not really trusting them not to play absolute politics on everything. Throw them out. All of them. Throw out the Republicans too. But don't pretend this is a Republican problem. The Democrats own this shutdown. They are untrustworthy.
I only mentioned Republicans because they're the ones asking for trust in the current situation. They say "Pass the CR, and [trust us] we'll work on ACA subsidies."

Democrats say "Pass the CR with the ACA subsidies included." Even if you don't trust them, they're not asking you to.
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