Valletta said:

The conclusion is misleading. As to attending mass, the question was "Belief in Jesus does not require attending Mass."

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Attending Mass deepens a person's relationship with Jesus if they have faith. However, just attending Mass out of obligation
and daydreaming through it does not mean the person has faith.

jonojim1337 said:

The claim about, the second temple being destroyed. It’s not destroyed. The first one suffered an attack. But it’s not in Palestine.

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From Chabad.org knowledge base,

Destruction of the Temple.

According to Josephus, Titus did not want the Temple to be burnt, apparently because a standing Temple would reflect more on Rome`s glory.

It was a Roman soldier acting on his own initiative who, hoisted on the shoulders of another soldier,
threw a firebrand into the Temple.

Titus tried to put a stop to the fire, but in the chaos, his soldiers did not hear him.

(Other historians contradict this account of Titus`s enlightened perspective and report that Titus ordered the Temple destroyed.)

hedrick said:

The free will arguments in the 19th cent seems largely not to have much heat anymore, though there are a few gung-ho Calvinists (at least there were a few years ago -- I haven't noticed that so much recently).

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Alas they are still very much with us.

hedrick said:

Currently sex and gender seem to be the big dividing line

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That’s what you’d think, except on CF at least I keep finding myself and Episcopalian friends such as @PloverWing and @seeking.IAM in mutual opposition to Restorationists who attack all traditional churches including the Episcopal Church, which I still love greatly (and which also still has, to be fair, more moderate and conservative members than most people realize, with such members present even on CF), Nashotah House, a seminary so traditional in every respect it once assisted the major Eastern Orthodox seminaries in the US), and the Orthodox Church, traditional Lutherans and so on over our refusal to embrace Sabbatarianism or Iconoclasm, or more recently with PloverWing in opposition to the idea of replacing the word “kingdom” in the Lord’s Prayer wirh “kin-dom” being engaged in by some theologians which seem more interested in political correctness than in any kind of adherence to traditional theology.

I would also point to this Traditional Theology forum as an example of traditional Christians uniting despite having substantial disagreements on some issues.

keras said:

Although we are told that we live for 3 score and ten - 70 years and to 80, provided health and good luck holds out; this is not a cut off point as I can attest. I was born in 1941, so I saw Israel become a nation again. Now at age 84, I still go bike riding, hiking and do house renovations, etc.
I expect to live for a while yet, hope to make 100; so I believe I will see it all.

But what is Prophesied to happen next, is the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, The event which will set the scene for all what must happen before Jesus Returns. Which I date to about 2034.

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Well, if Gog/Magog happens to the present nation of Israel, there goes your solar flare depopulation event and replacement nation theory.

RainySunflower said:

Fig tree - solve this problem for me. ^^

View attachment 373183

Edit:

Fig tree is 80 years, not 40. ^^ That aligns with 2028.
Jesus was also born 4-5 BC , not 0 BC , and died 33 , so that also aligns with 2028. ^^

Hard to argue with 2028. ^^

.

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Israel metaphorically represent a fig tree according to Joel 1:7. That is one basis for 1948 as the base year.

The other representation of a fig tree is Jerusalem. In Matthew 21:18-20, Jesus cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit, representing that the Jews of Jerusalem would not bear fruit by rejecting him as their King of Israel.

In 1967, the Jews regained control of Jerusalem. Based on 1967 at the base year, 1967 + 70/generation = 2037. Jesus will return not later than the end of 2037. Minus 7 years =2030. Meaning the Gog/Magog event that just precedes the 7 years, will happen sometime before the end of 2030.

Considering the current status between Israel and Iran, it looks like Gog/Magog should happen sooner.

stevevw said:

Here we go again. It doesn't matter who I link everyone is a whacko. You are only proving my point of double standards and bias.

Chris King the framebuilder
For anyone not familiar with Chris, his hubs and headsets (made right here in Portland) are considered to be the best in the world and they have been ridden to three Tour de France victories by the US Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams.

Chris King the framebuilder

[Chris and an old friend.] While at the Chris King Tour de France party last night, I heard someone mention that a guy rolled up on a bicycle made by Chris King himself. In all my years in the bike industry, including a stint as a King employee, I was surprised I'd never heard about this before.

bikeportland.org

Chris King Technology

View attachment 373192 View attachment 373201

After nearly fifty years in business, CKPC continues to be one of the premier makers of top-shelf hubs, headsets, and bottom brackets made in a leading-edge facility by a lot of folks who care a great deal about what they do.

It’s All Ball Bearings: Chris King Precision Components Factory Visit – Josh Weinberg

Within a relatively straightforward product lineup, Chris King Precision Components manufactures hubs, headsets, bottom brackets, and, perhaps most importantly, the bearings inside that make them spin. On a recent trip to Portland, Oregon, Josh spent some time at the Chris King HQ factory to...

theradavist.com

So if the vases involve machining of any sort and knowledge of precision tooling would not someone with 50 years experience know. Why do you make out good people who are experts are nothing, know nothing on this topic. Its an obvious misrepresentation and that your willing to deminish peoples credibility is another sign of double standards and bias.

We are not just talking about a modern lathe. We are talking about a circular striration at the base of the interior or what was a bowl or vase.

Its that the circular striration points to machining of some sort. Full stop.

Its clearly not pounding, chiseling or hand grinding. Its more like a machine cut whatever you want to call the device be it a lathe or some other method.

Did you not listen to Christ King the expert who uses lathes and precision tooling machines everyday to world class standards. He should know better than you.

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Try to get it through your thick skull this does not make him an expert on the use of copper tubes, abrasives and bow drills.
This is clearly evident in his explanation of the following striations.

Tell me what type of precision tool produces the irregular striations particularly evident on the left hand side of the hole?
It comes as no surprise this pattern along with the associated drill core has been reproduced using a copper tube, abrasives, bow drill and most importantly when the tool wobbles which realigns the tube and moves the mobile abrasive around.

stevevw said:

Are you kidding. What about the long cut along the surface that moves the the contour. What about the arc cuts. Are we loking at the same thing.

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The common consensus is the Egyptians used a technique known as relief drilling where they drilled small overlapping holes which were chiselled away and smoothed with abrasives.
Once again experimental archaeologists using this technique have reproduced the arc cuts.

stevevw said:

I recall you even acknowledging one of those cuts as a modern forgery. So you certainly recognised that it looked like a machine cut. If the others look similar why are they not also the same.

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Let me give you some advice if you want to continue to take me out of context you are making yourself look even more stupid than what you are.

stevevw said:

This is rediculous. Your turning one of the worlds best precision toolers in precision parts into a dumb bike maker. No one can have a discussion like this and just dismiss good people and devalue their expertise.

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Engaging in hyperbole is a form of lying as I never referred to him as a dumb bike maker but as my post reveals he is rank amateur when it comes to explaining striations on ancient Egyptian objects.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Does loving all our neighbors also mean we can think they are going to burn alive forever?

Asking for a neighbor

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1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

Love one another in verse 23 is not love our neighbor. We do not have to keep any New Testament law to be saved.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NKJV

Above is the second commandment in 1John 3:23. We are to love other Christians as Jesus loved us. As you can read verse 35 states by this all will know that you are my disciples, both the one loving and the one loved are disciples

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. NKJV

Above is the OT law to love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we love Jesus, we will keep this one. If we don't keep it we will not be in the Spirit, and the Father will discipline us. We will not lose salvation.

Doesn't your church teach the bible? Do you read the bible?

RainySunflower said:

Fig tree is 80 years, not 40. ^^ That aligns with 2028.

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Although we are told that we live for 3 score and ten - 70 years and to 80, provided health and good luck holds out; this is not a cut off point as I can attest. I was born in 1941, so I saw Israel become a nation again. Now at age 84, I still go bike riding, hiking and do house renovations, etc.
I expect to live for a while yet, hope to make 100; so I believe I will see it all.

But what is Prophesied to happen next, is the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, The event which will set the scene for all what must happen before Jesus Returns. Which I date to about 2034.

HIM said:

The obeying the voice of God is of the hearing of faith that Paul speaks of in Galatians 3. We know this to be true because verse 6 starts with the words “even as” when the spirit speaks of Abraham believing God. And all this is being said in respect to Paul speaking of us being dead but alive, yet not us but the Christ living in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. And this Faith is how we are justified. Because we Know that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, as verse 2:16 says

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, if not (except) by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

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I agree. There was a Temporary LAW that was "ADDED" because of the golden calf, that Abraham didn't have, in which a man that sinned was required to take a goat to an anointed Levite Priest, and "kill it" before the Priest could provide for the remission of his sins. And this Law was to be in place, until the Prophesied "Lamb of God" should come. This added LAW, was to lead men with a repentant heart to Christ, which it did for Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, and untold others throughout history, including David, Shadrack and a host of other examples of Faithful men in the Holy Scriptures.

But the Pharisees, who Paul was contending with, didn't believe Jesus was the Christ, the Prophesied Messiah and even those who believed He was, were still requiring that the New converts should come to them, and adopt their religious traditions which Jesus exposed as commandments and traditions of men, not God.

Paul is explaining to the Gentiles that the Blood of goats and the Priesthood "Works of the Law" is not why they received the Spirit of understanding. It was their obedience to God, as Peter also teaches, which is called "Faith". When the same Gospel was given to the Israelites, most of them didn't believe God, and subsequently didn't "obey Him". Here is what God said about them.

Duet. 32: 15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, "because" of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

But Abraham believed God which resulted in obedience to Him, even when it meant offering up to God His most precious possession.

To confirm this, one should ask themselves, "When a man sinned, what Law did Moses tell them to engage in"? Did Moses say, "if a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath holy and His sins are forgiven? No Him, he didn't. Did Moses say, "if a man sins he shall keep the 10 commandments and his sins are forgiven? No Sir, he didn't. None of these things were the "Works of the Law" that the Pharisees were still promoting for the remission of sins.

What did Moses say then, to the common man that sinned?

Lev. 4: 27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. 29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. 30 And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. 31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

This is the "Work of the Law", that was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham, to provide for the remission of sins. And it was to lead the repentant heart to the true Lamb of God.

It was the ONLY LAW that addressed transgressions in the Law and Prophets. Abraham wasn't given this LAW because he made a covenant with God, and Kept it.

Gen. 26: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Paul understood that this was only a temporary LAW, that was added after the Golden Calf, (because of transgressions) and in his way explained as much to the Galatians.

HIM said:

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the "works of the law", or by the hearing of faith?

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The Galatians received the spirit because they obeyed God. Act's 1-5 is clear about that. But the Jews were promoting "works of the law" that had already come to an end, as Prophesied.

A Law that Abraham didn't have.

HIM said:

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

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Are you so foolish having repented and "Yielded yourself a servant to obey God" from the heart, that you would adopt the traditions and philosophies of a religion that walked after the flesh and not the Spirit?

HIM said:

Galatians 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

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You fell on the Christ and were broken, you forsook the religions and traditions of your fathers, like Abraham did. Was this in vain?

HIM said:

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

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Did Paul or Peter teach you to engage in the Old Priesthood "works of the Law" for the remission of your sins? Or by the hearing Faith, "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.", as did Abraham?

HIM said:

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

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How do we know Abraham believed God? How does anyone know?

1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Is this not the true test of a man's Faith?

Let me know where you think I'm off the rails, if indeed you do. Thanks for the discussion.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Evil thoughts defile all regardless of choices, the general point of our Lord in Matt. 7:21-23

There is no escaping that fact by acting good and thinking that eliminates God's Facts

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Matthew 7:21-23 refers to many, not all. And the gospel has nothing to do with just acting good, which Jesus denounces. It has to do with what happens when we turn to God in faith, becoming His people.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. Jer 31:33

God begins a work in us that we could never do on our owm, apart from Him.

It is a statement that is difficult to bear.

‘No independent investigation has found that rapes took place on Oct 7.’

With this statement, Reem Alsalem, the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women and Girls, has once again caused outrage. Not because there is a lack of information, but because she is disregarding the available evidence. While teams of United Nations experts, forensic specialists and humanitarian organisations have meticulously documented the atrocities, Alsalem has decided to publicly downplay this reality.

The fact that this statement comes from a high-ranking UN official makes it all the more explosive. On Oct 7, Hamas terrorists committed acts of sexual violence with a brutality that is almost impossible to describe. Most of the victims did not experience liberation. They were murdered, mutilated and buried. Many bodies were only brought to forensic scientists weeks later, in a condition that left no doubt as to what had happened.

An international team of UN experts reviewed hours of video footage, thousands of photos and numerous statements from survivors, first responders and independent witnesses. After this analysis, the experts determined that rapes had taken place in several locations at the same time: along Route 232, in the vicinity of the Nova Festival, and in Kibbutz Re'im. The patterns were clear. The violence followed a calculated approach aimed at humiliation, intimidation and maximum destruction.

These findings are the result of structured work, not political rhetoric. And yet Alsalem chooses the path of denial. This is not the first time she has ignored the Israeli context. She had previously stated that she knew nothing about rocket attacks on Israeli towns. Now she claims there is no evidence for crimes that have long been documented.

The crimes of Oct 7 are among the most serious attacks the country has ever experienced. The fact that a UN representative is ignoring the suffering of those affected sends a devastating signal: anyone who does not fit into the political narrative will have their pain downplayed. Those who are no longer alive cannot defend themselves.

pasifika said:

That's what I expected.

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What? Show me on this page where you laid out a study that shows what you think. With that in mind, Why should I in respect to your posts? Don’t get me wrong I will a little later when I have a little more time. But please…

Political discussions about the future of the Gaza Strip are in full swing: international drafts, American models, Israeli demands, UN papers. But while committees meet and governments negotiate, a completely different reality is emerging on the ground. Hamas is using every hour of the new calm to re-establish its grip on the civilian population, quietly but consistently. The terrorist organisation, whose military and political leadership suffered massive blows during the war, is showing a different face on the ground: it is reorganising itself, appointing replacement cadres, carrying out executions and re-establishing coercive structures that determine people's everyday lives.

No reconstruction, no functioning administration, no reliable protection, but instead new ‘rules’, new taxes and the old fear. For the people, the situation today is hardly any more stable than it was during the fighting. For Hamas, however, it is strategically valuable: it fills the power vacuum before any decision has even been made on an alternative model of administration.

In neighbourhoods that the Israeli army has left, armed Hamas troops reappeared within a few days: not as shadow warriors, but openly on the streets. At the same time, Hamas is trying to take over civilian services such as rubbish collection and supply posts again.

The international community is discussing models that are slowly progressing, while a terrorist organisation is actively creating facts on the ground. The longer transitional mechanisms are lacking, the deeper Hamas becomes entrenched in everyday life, and the more difficult it becomes to actually establish future civil structures that are not characterised by fear and extortion.

Until the international community, the UN and regional actors present a clear and workable structure, this pattern will intensify. The question is not whether Hamas wants its power back. The question is whether anyone is currently preventing it from getting it.

Valletta said:

Many Democrats just didn't understand how beneficial tariffs could be to our country.

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Then why the need to reverse them?

Valletta said:

It will be nice for everyone to get $2000 to put back into the economy.

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It would be nice if things just didn't cost so much. A one time $2000 bandiad isn't going to fix the problems driving up the cost of living for the average American but reducing these pointless tariffs will help.

Servus said:

It seems more likely that if a president is being protected, that president is Bill Clinton.

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Who cares? They all should rot in jail. Send him too.


You think we have some kinda blinding loyalty to bubba? Not in the least.

Servus said:

It seems more likely that if a president is being protected, that president is Bill Clinton.

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Might not want to go down this rabbit hole just yet.