Stopped_lurking said:

What is the connection between the cargo on the boat and drug overdose deaths? Does removing one boat actually reduce overdose deaths with 20000? You are justifying killing the people on the boat because the cargo kills someone els. So how many lives are saved by sinking the boat and killing those on it?

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The good old trolley ethical dilemma.

You could ask the question a number of ways. How many lives are taken and destroyed by a boat load of drugs. Just like the trolly dilemma you have to choose between 5 people or 1 person. Or it may be 5 people on the drug boat and howevermany is estimated from a boat load of drugs. I would say it would be way more than 5.

But unlike the trolly dilemma if you do nothing instead of killing 1 or 5 people. By allowing it to go on you are allowing onging killing on your door step knowingly of a million over a generation.

So if taking out 5 boats stops the drug boats then so long as its stopped you will have saved a million people over a generation. But even if its half that or just saving lives for 1 year its still more lives saved.

Stopped_lurking said:

By whom, did they give a source?

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Now your concerned about sources lol.

Stopped_lurking said:

So how would what was on the boats kill 20000?

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I don't know, this is what was claimed. I guess if you average it out over a generation then the amount of drugs on each boat is equivelent to killing 20k over that generation.

Stopped_lurking said:

By cocaine overdose?

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Yes and I think this is mixed with fentanyl.

Stopped_lurking said:

So how many drug deaths can be laid at the feet of Venezuela?

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Does it matter. Lets say its 25k a year. Or even 10k. If terrorist came into a country and killed 10,000 people would that be ok. Whats the difference between a weapon and a poison that kills people.

Stopped_lurking said:

Sure, I don't have any problem with interdicting drug smugglers. Straight up executing them, not really ok to me.

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Ok so we just let them continue to smuggle drugs in and kill 1,000s.

So do you think assassinating Hamas leads or Iranian leaders who planned and plotted to murder 1,000s through terror was wrong without a trial.

Bradskii said:

How about you give us a statement as regards your position on the morality of that? Or do you still need to wait to find out who was responsible?

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Wait until they somehow can put the blame on Obama, Biden or Hillary Clinton. Then you'll see how wrong the second strike was.

Hans Blaster said:

Have you not noticed that the US courts have felt no compunction in prosecuting drug traffickers who never even entry the US? Recently the president of Honduras was tried, convicted, and sentenced to 40 years in a US federal prison for his efforts in trafficking 400 tons (!) of cocaine over a couple decades.

[voice off screen, peanuts style] wah wah wa waa wawah.

[Me] He did what?

[voice off screen, peanuts style] wah wawah wah waa wawah.

[Me] Oh [expletive deleted]!

Never mind.

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So how do they get Moros into a US prison. Will that stop the drug trade.

Not saying its right but it seems just a few boats blown out of the water has just about stopped the trade overnight.

The same thing happened with Hamas. The US bombed Iranian nuclear bunkers, take out Hama leaders and then threaten Hamas to be wiped off the face of the earth. Hamas was then negociation a peace deal to let the remaining hostages go. No other method achieved such an outcome.

Sometimes evil people don't care and are not open to negociations and doing the right thing. So what do you do then.

Welcome to CF.

stevevw said:

I don't know and why does it matter. All I know is that theres an aweful lot of deaths.

This is what was mentioned. That theres enough drugs on each boat to kill 20,000 people. That may not happen in one year as not every one will overdose and die.

Its averaged out over a generation where there was around a million deaths. By why does it matter quibbling about numbers. Its bad. Like they said this is more deaths than all the major wars of the 20th century.

Why are not people protesting and shutting down Universities and streets over 1,000s of people being killed by the flooding of drugs from a neighbouring nation.

If all the protests are about living together in peace then if my neighbour or a house down the street was flooding the town or city with drugs. I think most people would be upset and want the drug suppliers stopped.

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The US has historically rejected this argument, because it can be inverted and argued about US actions like sanctions.

BCP1928 said:

I don't know if it's a good thing, but it apparently is the Christian thing to do.

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Why is it always the 'Christians'. Like they are always the mean ones. Isn't this whole thing a matter of subjective opinion. You could say those who have sat by and quietly allowed 1,000s to die and families and communities destroyed due to policy inaction is being a mean as well.

BCP1928 said:

Most nations and most non-Christians in this country think that if you sink an enemy ship it is wrong to machine gun the survivors in the water.

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I think this is making a false equivalence. This is conflating the ethics of fake news and a seperate issue with the issue of whether stopping the drug boats full stop is ok or not. We don't even know if the fake news is verified. But your quick to spread the narrative without evidence.

Let me clarify also that none of this is a good thing as far as Christian values. War and using force and killing others even if justified to save many is still not a good thing. Compared to it not having to happen in the first place.

But thats not always how life works and there actually is evil in the world.

The reality is sooner or later this is going to be the case. That as evil grows and encroaches on others its a case of how far you tolerate this. If you have negociated and reasoned and pleaded and they don't stop then what do we do.

I think it depends and when it comes to national security and safety then this is a different situation. If the practices of another State are harming people what do you do. If the government of that nation knows whats happening and even participates in it. What then.

In some ways the drug boats are like terrorist who are aiming their poison at other nations to exploit and profit off them and are quite willing and knowingly murdering 1,000s of people in another nation in the process.

Guojing said:

The 12 + James never left Jerusalem in their lifetime, because the nation of Israel never accepted Christ as their Messiah. Cornelius was a one off incident and he was saved under the same program that Israel had.

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What theological importance are you concluding from this?
Also - I'm not sure Cornelius was 'saved' under the same program that Israel had - because that program was no longer valid. Jesus said if Israel did not worship him, God could make the very stones cry out! Cornelius was not a Jew, which is the very reason Peter had the dream about the unclean animals and salvation coming to the non-Jews.

Also, I'm not even sure if your claim about the Apostles staying in Jerusalem is technically true - let alone any conclusions you might attach to that statement.

PETER and JOHN: Acts 8:14 Peter and John sent to Samaria

Acts 9:32–43, Peter goes to Lydda, then Joppa, then in 10:23 Caesarea / Cornelius.

PHILIP (the evangelist) - Acts 8:5 Samaria, 8:40 then Caesarea.

PAUL (Saul) - everywhere across the Greek speaking world then Rome.

Let alone all the other church leaders that Acts shows were sent out to the nations for other purposes.

The theology of the New Testament is clear: God's plan for Israel was fulfilled in Jesus living as the perfect Israelite, dying in our place, and bringing in the kingdom of God via the church in this weird age we live in of "now but not yet" kingdom living.

Interesting! Thanks for sharing!

throughfierytrial said:

God’s gift of faith!!!

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Amen!

Oompa Loompa said:

I think I found my spirit animal. It is a good thing he made it to the toilet. But someone should probably bring him some fast food and an ibuprofen.

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After my bar hopping during my college years, we’d eat at a diner that was open 24/7. Breakfast food prevented hangovers and brought us together

RDKirk said:

Generally speaking, no. The same was true of My Lai.

That's because it was recognized the lower ranking troops didn't know or understand the laws their nations had signed to observe, and in the military ignorance of the law is an effective defense.

The US fixed that situation with comprehensive annual Law of Armed Conflict training that is mandatory for every service member.

So, nobody can claim ignorance of the law.

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I've been listening to some US national security lawyers on this topic. What's been interesting is the differences between the military lawyers and the intelligence community lawyers.

The former have universally been of the opinion that the strikes are illegal and most have condemned them.

The most commonly cited legal objections are that there's been no Congressional approval, that drug smuggling is a quintessential criminal activity not a military one, that there are reasonable and readily available alternatives to lethal strikes and that the classification of these groups as 'narcoterrorist' organisations is legally dubious (at best).

The intelligence community lawyers have been much more circumspect and seems to be more split about the legality and the necessity. S

ome argue that 'something' needed to be done and this 'sends a message' and while the strikes are likely illegal that misses the point and the law needs to catch up. Others point out that basic thresholds like 'response to armed attack' or 'acting in self-defense' - which are present in both US and international law - are absent and that without a Congressional Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF) the whole thing here is illegal (because drug smuggling clearly doesn't even come close to the established legal definitions of terrorism under the US code).

A former IC community lawyer pointed out that if the current US position is found legal then a country like Venezuela could designate Lockheed Martin, RTX and Boeing as 'terrorist organisations' and proceed to legally blow up passenger jets with their employees on board.

Null

martinlb said:

Thanks for the thoughtful replies about the KJV. I wasn't thinking about that version of the bible but I can now see how I shouldn't have entitled this thread "KJV".

What I meant to bring up is how some people actually speak, or try to speak, in King James English. And the to the best of my knowledge King James style speaking is around 700 years old. What's the reason for using it?

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Personally? As a young (30 year old) American, I don’t see many people speak that way. Especially in the Midwest where most people speak clearly and plainly.

Maybe people from other areas and countries have a different experience?

PloverWing said:

And the "demonic" part would have been especially hurtful to the transgender/non-binary instructor reading the essay.



If an instructor is going to give students an assignment to read and write about a controversial topic, then, yes, the focus needs to be on how to construct an argument and clearly lay it out in writing. If the topic is so emotionally charged that students and instructors aren't going to be able to set aside their emotions long enough to construct and evaluate arguments, then maybe pick a different topic for the assignment.

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Yes, it can be hurtful, I understand, but I can understand why the student may have felt that way. It’s not nice to call people “demonic,” but people should be free to express their opinion in a kinder, milder way? I don’t know if I am making sense?

Multifavs said:

Same here!

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Do you like it?

Owlette said:

Here too! Usually we don’t get snow as early as we did this year. Or at least, it would have melted by now.

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I actually like it! I cannot stand the heat! Bring on the cold!

Stopped_lurking said:

Isn't cocaine the main drug coming from or going through Venezuela? The annual cocaine overdose deaths in the US is on the scale of 20000-30000 from memory.

How is the math mathing here?

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I don't know and why does it matter. All I know is that theres an aweful lot of deaths.

This is what was mentioned. That theres enough drugs on each boat to kill 20,000 people. That may not happen in one year as not every one will overdose and die.

Its averaged out over a generation where there was around a million deaths. By why does it matter quibbling about numbers. Its bad. Like they said this is more deaths than all the major wars of the 20th century.

Why are not people protesting and shutting down Universities and streets over 1,000s of people being killed by the flooding of drugs from a neighbouring nation.

If all the protests are about living together in peace then if my neighbour or a house down the street was flooding the town or city with drugs. I think most people would be upset and want the drug suppliers stopped.

Nithavela said:

Well, there we have it. Comitting the textbook example of a war crime is "bold and brave". Extreme solutions are needed to save the lives of your people. You just have to be keep being brutal to solve the problem.

This kind of reasoning has been used to rationalise the worst atrocities of mankind. But with an army as strong as yours and the world too fractured to oppose you, perhaps this time you can kill your way to utopia.

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Lol who are you referring to as "yours" and "your people". I am not from the US. So its not about saving my nations people but just saving humans.

Like I said this has created an ethical dilemma. Either we sit back and do nothing and continue to allow 1,000s to die and have theirs and their families lives destroyed. And the community as a result because drugs is alse a family and community problem.

Or we try to negociate and plead or give incentives for the Narcos to stop. Or we plead with Moros to step down and get someone in who will be tough on the Narcos. Because Moros is corrupt and is benefiting form the drug trade.

I am pretty sure the US has over the years been pleading, negociating and even sanctioning Venezuela to stop or reduce the drug trade. But the fact is its actually increased tremendously.

I think the Narcos are so ingrained into the government and Venezuelas economy that there is no way they will stop willingly. Its a bit like Hamas. Its like a religion that is ingrained and part of their culture.

So what is the solution. Just sit back and watch tons of drugs come into the US and another million people die in the next generation and all the chaos that comes with it for families and communities.

Do you think that now that the drug boats have just about stopped and its saving lives is a good thing.

Mark Quayle said:

or does God (the Spirit of God) generate it within us, fully valid?

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What would be the point? Can any father force a child to honour him, or must they learn to base their respect on their own discernment by comparison to others? God has been telling humans since the Garden to put His Will first, but we do not untill we learn why His ways are right and ours as a species is wrong.

Cave 7 7Q5 fragment original study in Spanish. Dead sea scrolls NT Mark.
that is the original study in spanish. Maybe the other ones were being hidden because I had the word sci hub in the description not sure. Can download the Spanish study, and upload it into DeepL, and translate it into English for free after signing up. I will try upload English one again.

Servus said:

I think there needs to be a clear assessment placed in the minds of cartels that the United States is the last place on earth they want to try smuggling drugs into.

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I think the US is one of their biggest markets being on their door step. It would be hard to smuggle large quantities of drugs further away so they will depend on the US a lot.

This will be a major blow and I think one that will also perhaps have an effect on the nation and its government. Trump has now made the whole drug smuggling problem an international issue and I think it could have a major change on both nations for the better hopefully. As nothing was was being done and that was also wrong.

Douggg said:

The book of Ester does not have either "latter days" or "latter years" of Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16 in it either.

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I never once claimed that term was in Esther either.

Guojing said:

So the kingdom was always spiritual since Jesus's birth?

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yes. the new Jerusalem is the promise land now not physical Jerusalem.

Servus said:

Did you see any low rank noncom Nazis on trial along with Goering?

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Generally speaking, no. The same was true of My Lai.

That's because it was recognized the lower ranking troops didn't know or understand the laws their nations had signed to observe, and in the military ignorance of the law is an effective defense.

The US fixed that situation with comprehensive annual Law of Armed Conflict training that is mandatory for every service member.

So, nobody can claim ignorance of the law.