Apple Sky said:

Think of the billions NASA spends each year.

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NASA's budget is less than 0.4% of the US economy.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

All claims from you and not a shred of evidence.



A strawman fallacy.



It is up to the skeptics, sure. But you can't show a single thing to dispute anything from what the archaeologists, the people who actually study the ancient histories and the people, say. All you have is just claims.



100% and utter modern-pilled. Stop thinking of everything was as the same as it is today and try, actually TRY, and use your intelligence to think on how it would have been done without electronic tools, modern machining, or anything we have today. Because it was done without those sorts of things, and we have evidence for it. You have NOTHING to dispute such findings and you have NOTHING except "Because I say so" claims to try and back yourself up.

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I never said anything about electronic tools. You are the one creating the conspiracies. I don't know how they did it. But they did it and it cannot be explained by the tools they claim.

A copper saw first is not big enough. Some of these cuts are well beyond a hand saw. A copper saw is grinding and abrasion out the granite and not sharply cutting it. Its not sharp and narrow. Saws cannot cut arcs or leave router marks dug into the surface. Nor can they plunge into a granite surface from abobe and cut deep into it as its a back and forth motion cutting across the suface.

Nor would anyone cslowly cut a box off course for days and weeks and not realise they were off course. Considering the near perfect straight lines they cut in other examples.

THis needs to be explained and not assumed of fobbed off as conspiracy.

Job 33:6 said:

People here, fundamentalists or YECs in particular, are suggesting that the only way in which something can be true is if it is something that historically could have been scientifically verified. As though, in order for "7-days" to be true, it would have to be as though the sun rotated around the earth 7 times, and as though someone living back then could have physically witnessed that passage of time and events in earth history.

Rather than understanding that truth, much like the referenced parables, can take many forms. And one thing that AussiePete says, and packages in his words, is patently untrue, that God's word must be empirically or scientifically historical, or God is a liar.

Click to expand...

I am a young earth creationist, and as I am sure you know, I do write things similar to what Aussie Pete wrote. I still say that when he and I do so, we are not telling lies, just because what we believe about Creation doesn't match what you and other believers in an old earth believe. It's no more lying than a credo-baptist saying that he/she believes baptism to be for believers according to the bible.

stevevw said:

First, what crackpot theories have I suggested.

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You 100% know what I'm talking about. It's the same claim you made on the Egyptian technology thread.

stevevw said:

Second the evidence that the mainstream or orthodoxy on the tools and methods don't match the signatures that I am pointing out. You have not addressed this and really doubling down that it was the orthodoxy is inadequate as we can see the gap in tools and methods that don't match. It is at least questionable.

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No, what's questionable is that you think that your claims are simply the be-all-end-all of anything regarding ancient tech and that you think that we shouldn't question you when we point out that you have no evidence except claims and incredulity from you.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

That you still refuse to accept mainstream archaeological evidence on the ancient Egyptians for crackpot theories that cannot be actually supported by anything except conspiracy theories.

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First, what crackpot theories have I suggested.

Second the evidence that the mainstream or orthodoxy on the tools and methods don't match the signatures that I am pointing out. You have not addressed this and really doubling down that it was the orthodoxy is inadequate as we can see the gap in tools and methods that don't match. It is at least questionable.

childeye 2 said:

There have been several recounts and audits in swing states. All of them showed a valid election.

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Recounting fake mail in ballots is no proof of the most free and fair election in US history.

stevevw said:

First you have not shown this evidence aplenty. Second if the evidence does not show it then of course people are going to speculate. Especially when the tools don't match whats seen into the works lol.

For example the precision vases from predyanstic Egypt are from around 3600BC or earlier. The Naqada people were a neolithic culture with simple tech. They did not have the potters wheel or later Bore stick the Egyptians used to make soft stone vases.

But we know from the precise symmetry and roundness (though some dispute the level). But precise enough to say they were lathed somehow. This is the classic orthodoxy that high levels of circularity are the result of lathing or the potters wheel.

So where is the potters wheel or lathe that made these vases. So we spectulate that if the signatures show a lathe or wheel of some sort was involved we scratch our heads and wonder how this could be when no such tech was around.

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All claims from you and not a shred of evidence.

stevevw said:

Because when we know about them from the evidence does not match the end results. If you found a watch on a beach in 1,000 AD in the archeology. You would either say its a kafe from modern times or wonder how they could make this when the tech was not yet developed.

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A strawman fallacy.

stevevw said:

I already have. The evidence that these out of place works required a certain level of knowledge and tech beyond what was available and capable has already been linked. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to say how it was achieved. Only that it could not be achieved by the orthodox methods in the archeological records and barratives.

It is up to the skeptics to show how these signatures could be achieved with conventional tools and tech. Like show evidence of that the Naqada people could achieve modern machine levels without a lathe or machine. Or how the traditional methods could achieve such signatures that look like modern routers, circular saws, and planers. Or life weights we struggle with today with modern logistics.

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It is up to the skeptics, sure. But you can't show a single thing to dispute anything from what the archaeologists, the people who actually study the ancient histories and the people, say. All you have is just claims.

stevevw said:

Good old manpower, its almost magical that it can mimick modern machining. Why would they even want to make a signature look like a modern planer did it. Its just a cut. If it was done simply by grinding and abrasion it would not leave such signatures.

You tell me how manpower and simple copper saws and abrasions would create such signatures that look exactly like modern machines.So much so that skeptics are forced to say they are modern forgeries that someone put much later.

Like this granite box saw cut which goes crooked well before its stopped. Tests have shown that cutting with copper saws and abrasion will only cut around an 1nch every 6 hours. So its hard to believe that a mistake could continue for weeks without being spotted. More likely the cutter was fast and suddenly went off course.

This Ancient Egyptian Saw-Cut Proves They Had a Lost ...​

As the short video mentions there have been no copper saws found that are big enough, no inscriptions showing the cutting of granite with big saws. Only small saws cutting wood.

Or this amazing slab at AbuSir that looks like a giant planer shaved off the granite and left a sharp arc. Even leaving sharp steps here and there like it dug in a bit deeper in places.

These signatures sort of lend weight to the precision of the granite vase tech. They are also precise as in sharp straight lines, cuts and arcs ect that show machined level signatures. Together they build a strong case.

You can't keep saying they are all the result of hard work, pounding, abraising and rubbing that just happened to end up looking exactly like modern signatures.

Click to expand...

100% and utter modern-pilled. Stop thinking of everything was as the same as it is today and try, actually TRY, and use your intelligence to think on how it would have been done without electronic tools, modern machining, or anything we have today. Because it was done without those sorts of things, and we have evidence for it. You have NOTHING to dispute such findings and you have NOTHING except "Because I say so" claims to try and back yourself up.

Stopped_lurking said:

Isn't this just a question of talking about equilibrium on differing timescales. On average the power we get from the sun must be the same (or very very very close to) as we radiate back into space. Otherwise we would be burnt to a crisp or an ice ball. This is beside AGW. That there is some shorter timescale dynamics in the system doesn't negate that.

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The output change is in the range of tenths of a percent., maybe closer to around 1 tenth of a percent. The point is it isn't steady, and, as the hydrogen depletes will slowly grow hotter over just a few billion years before it becomes a red giant. At least, that's the current forecast, and no, that's not a joke.

My point in mentioning that is that it's not stable output. Someone with a keen eye might notice a difference in brightness of those old incandescent bulbs as voltage fluctuates within accepted levels. It's a slight change, but still a change. Even a slight change in solar output affects the energy a planet receives from the sun. It may be in the range of tenths of a percent, but it's still a change. It's not equilibrium.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

We have the tech that archaeologists say is used. There have been images aplenty of it, you just go "NU-UH! THAT'S NOT IT! WHERE'S THE REAL TECH?"

Click to expand...

First you have not shown this evidence aplenty. Second if the evidence does not show it then of course people are going to speculate. Especially when the tools don't match whats seen into the works lol.

For example the precision vases from predyanstic Egypt are from around 3600BC or earlier. The Naqada people were a neolithic culture with simple tech. They did not have the potters wheel or later Bore stick the Egyptians used to make soft stone vases.

But we know from the precise symmetry and roundness (though some dispute the level). But precise enough to say they were lathed somehow. This is the classic orthodoxy that high levels of circularity are the result of lathing or the potters wheel.

So where is the potters wheel or lathe that made these vases. So we spectulate that if the signatures show a lathe or wheel of some sort was involved we scratch our heads and wonder how this could be when no such tech was around.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

You're the one making the claim that they used tech apart from what we know about them,

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Because when we know about them from the evidence does not match the end results. If you found a watch on a beach in 1,000 AD in the archeology. You would either say its a kafe from modern times or wonder how they could make this when the tech was not yet developed.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

so the onus is 100% on you to present that evidence. You have repeatedly failed to do so, and continue to fail to do so.

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I already have. The evidence that these out of place works required a certain level of knowledge and tech beyond what was available and capable has already been linked. I don't need to do anything else. I don't need to say how it was achieved. Only that it could not be achieved by the orthodox methods in the archeological records and barratives.

It is up to the skeptics to show how these signatures could be achieved with conventional tools and tech. Like show evidence of that the Naqada people could achieve modern machine levels without a lathe or machine. Or how the traditional methods could achieve such signatures that look like modern routers, circular saws, and planers. Or life weights we struggle with today with modern logistics.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Also: have you never heard of raw manpower? Work gangs? Lots of people pulling and pushing things at the same time?

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Good old manpower, its almost magical that it can mimick modern machining. Why would they even want to make a signature look like a modern planer did it. Its just a cut. If it was done simply by grinding and abrasion it would not leave such signatures.

You tell me how manpower and simple copper saws and abrasions would create such signatures that look exactly like modern machines.So much so that skeptics are forced to say they are modern forgeries that someone put much later.


Like this granite box saw cut which goes crooked well before its stopped. Tests have shown that cutting with copper saws and abrasion will only cut around an 1nch every 6 hours. So its hard to believe that a mistake could continue for weeks without being spotted. More likely the cutter was fast and suddenly went off course.

This Ancient Egyptian Saw-Cut Proves They Had a Lost ...​

As the short video mentions there have been no copper saws found that are big enough, no inscriptions showing the cutting of granite with big saws. Only small saws cutting wood.

Or this amazing slab at AbuSir that looks like a giant planer shaved off the granite and left a sharp arc. Even leaving sharp steps here and there like it dug in a bit deeper in places.



These signatures sort of lend weight to the precision of the granite vase tech. They are also precise as in sharp straight lines, cuts and arcs ect that show machined level signatures. Together they build a strong case.

You can't keep saying they are all the result of hard work, pounding, abraising and rubbing that just happened to end up looking exactly like modern signatures.

Neogaia777 said:

I think we all can agree that Paul was not at all about a works based saving/righteousness, but yet he also came up with things to say like that is in 2 Corinthians 5:10 also? So was he contradicting his own beliefs?

God Bless.

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No matter how one wishes to cut it, or how we state the matter, without good fruit that results from our continuing connection to the Vine, there’s no salvation as per John 15. And that includes the overcoming of sin. So, for example:

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of Godare the children of God.” Rom 8:12-14

PrincetonGuy said:

Did Jesus lie when he told parables? Of course not? But someone is telling a huge whopper of a lie in your post. Moreover, boldfaced lies such as these coming from the pens and mouths of professing Christians are doing much more harms to the gospel message and the Christian witness than all of the atheists put together.

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What is the lie that, in your view, Aussie Pete told in his post? People on forums like this disagree on all sorts of matters. Just because somebody's point of vie disagrees with your, that doesn't mean they're telling lies.

HIM said:

The Gentile Ministers of the New Covenant haven't partook of the New Covenant promised to Israel? Try reading the post again and again, "Do we still sin? Then be not deceived, the Law is for sinners. For by the Law is the knowledge of sin. The Righteous, the Just live out of Faith, This Faith establishes the Law. This Faith is a gift from God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. His Word, His Law is in our hearts and in our mouths through His Spirit that we do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For in Him we are to be living, moving and have our being. If not, then we are not all that He would have us be. The New Covenant ministers ministering, letters with the engrafted word in our hearts. Written by the Spirit of the Living God. Not on tables of stone, or parchment but the fleshly tables of the heart by His Spirit. A new creature of His kind, begotten by the Word of truth. Not that our sufficiency is in of ourselves. It is of God. Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

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Abraham1st said:

Sin is knowledge of the law, sin is gone, law is gone, we are as without law, but under the law to Christ, this way...

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If the Law is in our heart and mind, Heb 8:10. His Word is in our heart and mouth Rom 10:6-8 that is the idea. Sin is not to be an issue because we are not to be sinning. We are a new creation in Christ Jesus. begotten by the Word of truth. WE ARE TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE WE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE WE ARE BORN OF GOD.

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Abraham1st said:

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

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Most don't know, I Cor 9:21 does not say under the law to Christ. It actually says Lawful to or by Christ. BIG difference.

The words. "under the Law" are translated from a Greek word that is translated else where lawful. To be under the Law implies bondage, We are not in bondage. If If God meant "under the Law He would inspired Paul to use the same words as He did in here in
1Cor 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

He did not. He used a word translated in Acts as Lawful.

Acts 19:39 But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.

Here is the definition of the word translated Lawful from the BDAG Lexicon.


ἔννομος, ον (s. νόμος; Pind., Aeschyl. et al.; ins, pap, Sir prol. ln. 14; Philo, Abr. 242, Poster. Cai. 176; Jos., Ant. 19, 302; SibOr 3, 246; Just., D. 47, 4 ἔ. πολιτείαν; Ath., R. 70, 23 al.) pert. to being in accordance with law, legal, lawful.

It is actual a compound word. If we would define it by the two words it is made of we would simply say In Law., hence Lawful.

Since God said, the Commandments and statutes of the Book of the Law are to be in our hearts and mouths that we do it in Deut 30:10-14 and in Rom10:6-8. We know that this change is where are faith comes from. For Romans 10 also says that the word is in our heart and mouth, and that is the word of faith in in which we preach. And this change in us is what establishes the Law because it is how we live because it is who we are now through Christ. For we are lawful by Christ. For we are dead but alive. Yet not us, but Christ lives in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ who gave himself for us. Not that our sufficiency is of ourselves but of God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

eclipsenow said:

But I'll repeat it. These were local effects, relative equilibrium compared to the larger Ice Age cycles of the last 3 million years - and NOTHING on the cataclysmic HOTH to TATOOINE changes of those ancient periods!

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No. The back-to-back cold winters that all but knocked out lupin seed stock happened outside of a locality. It fundamentally changed farming in the Southeastern US. Lupin fixes nitrogen and, unlike velvet bean (a popular winter cover crop prior to lupin) breaks down easily and doesn't drag on plows. Before that event, winters were warmer in living memory.

You say it's "anecdotal." I say it's "inconvenient." It's easy to imagine a Medieval professor dismissing the discrepancy Galan's work on anatomy and what a student sees as "anecdotal."

Yet here is a curious thing: My account of cold temperatures that wiped out lupin stock after a series of warmer winters is deemed local and anecdotal. Yet the current temperature in parts of Australia this October is treated as harbingers of doom. If you're willing to dismiss those cold winters as local and anecdotal, then we should do the same with this October's temperatures in Australia.

Your call.

Neogaia777 said:

Just heard this argument, and listened to this argument again, and I will say that I think all roads lead to judgement, so if your thinking that they all lead to God, then you might be correct, but maybe just not the way you think maybe.

I would also say that for me, or as for "me and my house", as the Bible puts it, I don't think there is any way for me to be saved apart from Jesus Christ, and maybe for the simple fact that I know I'm not perfect, and that I think that God's standard apart from Jesus Christ in the judgement is going to be 100% absolute guiltlessness, or perfection probably. So, if you don't at some point in your life come to some kind of (faith) belief in Jesus Christ in your life sometime before you die, or before you stand in judgement, then I don't think your chances are very good of getting into heaven, or being saved probably, etc.

And as for me, no one else died for me, or even thought it was necessary, etc. Not Mohammad, not Buddha, or Confucious, or any other man/woman/person of God (or supposedly of God) none of them even thought about the fact of maybe having to die for me, etc.

And the fact that only one person did, or thought it was 100% necessary, and thought there was no other way, should maybe be trying to tell you/me/all of us something maybe?

As for me, I think it's the one and only way I'm getting in probably, or even stand a chance at getting in or being saved probably, etc.

And the rest of you can think/act/decide for yourselves maybe, since every single person has to answer that/decide that for themselves probably, etc.

Anyway, God Bless.

If you're interested to know how that judgement for either you, me, or anyone might happen or go maybe, then this post (below) maybe could prove somewhat useful maybe (or maybe not maybe). It's probably different for someone who believes in Jesus Christ then maybe someone who does not have some kind of belief in Jesus Christ probably, etc. Any kind of mercy at all probably only comes through/by Jesus Christ probably, etc.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-do-we-set-aside-the-grace-of-god.8330781/post-

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Jesus is the Way…to the Father. Because our union with God is salvation. He reveals the true God so that we can know Him, and in knowing Him come to believe in, hope in, and, most importantly, to love Him. And He can uniquely do this because He is God. So:

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

Bradskii said:

He certainly did find racial bias in police violence. His paper noted no bias in shootings.

And I have no idea why he's been mentioned.

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Did you not read my words - I said:

"the evidence doesn't show the racial bias in policing that is being claimed by the far left."

He found low level arrests showed a racial bias but zero racial bias at the level of the suspect loosing his life (ie: cops aren't just running around killing black people because they are hateful Nazi racists)

I think he brought up there might be something triggering the response at the low level interaction that isn't specifically tied to a racial bias or hate, but that is still occuring during police interactions with black Americans, though not detrimentally so.- ie: whatever it is isn't endangering lives.

Me? I don't believe cops are just racist I think it's something else causing. Just because it's occuring within a racial group interaction doesn't mean the skin color of the individual is what the cause is.

eclipsenow said:

If you read in context -

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If you'll consult your dictionary, you'll find "equilibrium" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Kathleen30 said:

Keras when you write of all Gods people migrating to Israel . Firstly you must prove your Jewishness or conversion to be accepted as a citizen of Israel . The Church claims billions of believers and considering that Judaism rejects Christ they might very much have a problem with such a mass number of Christians entering their boarders little lone as future citizens. Can you explain some more on that and how that would work. Kathleen

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The logistics issue has been pointed out to him prior. Being packed into a little city in a little country, elbow to elbow, with billions of other people doesn't sound like much interest to me. Sounds more like Mecca/Black Rock

Hebrews 12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Would you suppose that there is a physical Jerusalem AND an entirely different Jerusalem, a HEAVENLY Jerusalem?

I'd suggest that IS the case.

So, speaking entirely logically here, IF the kingdom of God is "within us" where might that heavenly Jerusalem BE I wonder? Hmmmm?

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Now we can picture ourselves physically, with billions of other believers packed into a physical city.

or

We can realize that an entire City is packed into US. Kinda wild, ain't it?

I am where Christ is, on the inside.

Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

All this outside physical nonsense is just flesh noise.

No one will SEE it coming.

Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

The very last place I'd look for the "Kingdom of God" is to some physical place on earth called SODOM and EGYPT in the spirit filled with unbelievers who are blinded by God Himself.

NOW, if they happen to collectively SEE, boy howdy. Because that will mean thee end of this wicked age.

Romans 11:
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

But you're ignoring the comparison.

Bradskii said:

Let's assume that the boats were carrying fentanyl. But they weren't a few miles off the California coast. So no immediate danger. They could have been tracked and boarded by the Navy at their convenience.

A truck coming over the border which is also carrying fentanyl is a lot closer to home. A more immediate danger.

So why not treat it the same? Trump says, literally: 'we're going to kill them'.

What's the difference?

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Your ignoring situational issues that could factor in.

For example, to what extent do these people act like terrorists? Does letting a Navy ship allow one to get close to the ship endanger the Navy ship? If that's the case then acting like your at war against an enemy combatant is perfectly appropriate.

Knowing the cartels and the situation can change the response.

There might be a situation where the circumstances are set such that drone striking a truck in Canada is a heroic effort that saved lives - but turn the tables with a completely different scenario and its criminal to even consider.

My Cartel knowledge is "made for TV" since that's where it came from but people do compare them to terrorist organizations and always have, they are known for their presence in the drug trade, human and sex trafficking, including of children.

They are known to be ruthless and they kill people using gruesome and brutal means and threaten people's families so that everyone around them is more in fear of them than any police, and they have to fear for their families even after they're dead.

3 weeks ago the president of the United States announced to Congress escalation against the cartels and since that time we have witnessed the escalation.

It seems legitimate and not every terrorist-type is a Muslim. We have had problems with the Cartels for a long time and the closing of our borders escalated the matter because it's a major source of revenue for them. Even ISIS started human trafficking - it's apparently a source of a lot of revenue such that many want in on the scheme

I prefer to end human and sex trafficking and at least greatly reduce the major drug trades. It would go a long way to making cities safer, and fewer people subject to inhumanity overall. Modern slavery cannot be tolerated in America

Aryeh Jay said:

The word you are looking for is stable genius. President Trump is an expert in real estate and construction, making billions of dollars due to his experience.

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Maybe he's just a genius at building stables.

Hazelelponi said:

Have you ever heard of Roland Fryer? You cant discuss his research or any like it because the claim on the back of years of research is that the evidence doesn't show the racial bias in policing that is being claimed by the far left.

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He certainly did find racial bias in police violence. His paper noted no bias in shootings.

And I have no idea why he's been mentioned.

Hentenza said:

Mat 5:29 - “Now if your right eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away from you; for it is better for you to lose G622 one of the parts of your body,[fn]than for your whole body to be throwninto [fn]hell.

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Hmmmm? That silly literalness gets readers in trouble, especially when they start gouging out their physical eyes.

I'm sure you heard about the guy who gouged out his right eye to avoid hell?

He found our he was a left eye luster.

Mark 7:
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

The above is NOT optional. It's a hard line fact for everyone. Unless of course they are blinded by the god of this world to their own internal matters and are both deceived and deceivers.

It's unfortunate that there are so few honest believers, ain't it?

Note to self: Jesus said WHEN your eye is evil, not IF

Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

I'd suggest lying hypocrisy makes the body full of darkness

Why do you think it is that so few can fess up to this internal reality? And instead, deny, hide, dance around the fact endlessly? It's quite fascinating really.

Once it's seen however, and honestly confronted, you'll never see the same way again.

Fervent said:

All I really need to know is that it's something to be avoided at all costs, why then dispute with someone who agrees but has a different idea about exactly what the punishment entails?

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And some believers actually look forward to the eradication of the evil present within our own hearts, with JOY no less.

Why dodge it when that is exactly the direction to run to and is the basis of our Hope in Christ?

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Hiding it won't do anyone any good. That is however the totally natural response in the face of the threat of eradication

Some however very much look forward to that loss

Hans Blaster said:

He started construction without financing in place? What a maroon.

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The word you are looking for is stable genius. President Trump is an expert in real estate and construction, making billions of dollars due to his experience.

keras said:

A totally ridiculous idea,

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Revelation 1:10

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Trumpets don't talk iirc

keras said:

Is the Seal of God upon the foreheads of His servants;, Rev 7:3b, or the 'mark of the beast', Rev 13:16; just spiritual?

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Totally.

You know the blinded Jews of the O.T. used to bind the words of God to their forehead and or hands on phalacteries.

Their literal sights didn't do them much good. They were still blind to the unseen, 2 Cor. 3:14

Mark 4:15 is a very real, but unseen phenomena, rampant in the churches

Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is

keras said:

The physical universe does not pass away until after the final Judgment; Revelation 20:11-15 - THEN Rev 21 and Eternity comes.

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I wouldn't give much credence to anyone who hasn't factored in our adversaries into their end time pictures and fixates on physical matters.

And there is a very real spiritual reason you do not and can not factor in the adversaries into your end time sights. Totally obvious to me, yet unseen yet rejected by you. Are you seriously going to claim there is no adversary and his own in these end time narratives? HA!

It's territory that's apparently totally blocked out in your own mind and replaced with the physical fantasy of some small victory sect of people, of which you are presumably a member.

Oh well, the Word is a deep dive subject. God spoke through SIMILITUDES precisely because He conveys the unseen matters.

Few listen. But it will be loud enough for every person to hear as we approach the landing area. Rev. 1:7

sjastro said:

Given at the time Egyptology was dominated by the French they probably found the monarchy equally perplexing.

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That is actually a very good point. I often forget about the French.