Say it aint so said:

Suicide-Related Outcomes Following Gender-Affirming Treatment: A Review​

Abstract

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Gender-affirming treatment remains a topic of controversy; of particular concern is whether gender-affirming treatment reduces suicidality. A narrative review was undertaken evaluating suicide-related outcomes following gender-affirming surgery, hormones, and/or puberty blockers. Of the 23 studies that met the inclusion criteria, the majority indicated a reduction in suicidality following gender-affirming treatment; however, the literature to date suffers from a lack of methodological rigor that increases the risk of type I error. There is a need for continued research in suicidality outcomes following gender-affirming treatment that adequately controls for the presence of psychiatric comorbidity and treatment, substance use, and other suicide risk-enhancing and reducing factors. There is also a need for future systematic reviews given the inherent limitations of a narrative review. There may be implications on the informed consent process of gender-affirming treatment given the current lack of methodological robustness of the literature reviewed.​

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Changes in Suicidality among Transgender Adolescents Following Hormone Therapy: An Extended Study​

Results​

Suicidality significantly declined from pretreatment to post-treatment (F[1, 426] = 34.63, P < .001, partial η2 = 0.075). This effect was consistent across sex assigned at birth, age at start of therapy, and treatment duration.​

Conclusions​

HT was associated with clinically meaningful reductions in suicidality over time, extending prior findings with a larger sample and longer follow-up. These study findings provide clinical evidence supporting the mental health benefits of timely access to HT in this population.​

What I asked is "Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates. If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?" So forget about the studies for a second, If gender affirming care led to lower suicide rates would that be enough for those who are not supportive to those actions to reconsider?

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Your study here is data collected from a "gender affirming care" clinic and consists of only 450 patients which they only followed for 2 years.

Thus I conclude that 10 years of Medicare / Medicaid data following thousands of "trans" people compared to millions of general population both of those on disability as well as those over 65 years old; over 10 years post treatment; is more reliable.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

If Trump pardons Juan Orlando Hernandez. That means, that he doesn't care about drug smuggling. Tha means Trump isn't killing the people on those boats over drugs. So Trump is just murdering those people on the boats.

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Well, he's already murdering the people on those boats. Those were extra-judicial killings of civilian criminal suspects.

BCP1928 said:

You're right. It was about the autonomy of women in general.

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Yes but human autonomy is the antithesis of Christianity. Christianity is about sacrificing self. The idea of autonomy played out in world ideas about what is right and good may allow anti Christian ideas like abortion. A womens right to autonomy means the right to abortion. Cerain worldview beliefs will lead to certain social and moral consequences.

BCP1928 said:

But the "culture" was always about identities. The question is who is going to impose them.

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I disagree culture was always about identities. It is in Individualistic cultures. But collect cultures which are usually the Indigenous or cultural natives to the land and having a spiritual connection place more importance of the collective than the individual.

But there is also a traditional leadership setup where elders are respected. This has been the predominant way for most of history I think up until modern times.

I guess whoever gets to be in power and whoever manages to occupy positions of influence will dictate and impose their will. Or the will of lobby groups or affiliated groups that manage to garner influence. Or those who make the most noise on social media or through protest.

Thats why we are seeing a lot of proests and political actions such as blocking city streets and cancelling people. Usually when there is no clear united belief then its a matter of might makes right.

Thats why we are now seeing the policies and laws change so radically when the Left or Right get in. They undo each others policies because they are so radically different now.

BCP1928 said:

Yes, and on the other hand it is Christinas who insist that men are God's not only of their own bodies but of women's bodies, too.

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Why do you make it all about men. This is surely cultivating the very identity based politics obsessing over everything being about gender, sex and race.

Saying Christians insist that men are Gods of their own and womens bodies is a gross misrepresentation. How can a Christian man make himself God over his own body. Its an obvious and blantant contradiction to being a Christian. Which is that Christ is God over our bodies. Its more or less saying Christians believe in pagan ideas.

I am simply saying that progressive ideas and beliefs have caused a lot of damage to society. To marriage, relationships and the family and society as a whole. I am not targeting gender or sex or race. Just that the progressive ideology itself is damaging to society.

Compared to Christianity based on the bible. Not your reimagining or Christianity. Or a politicised version of it.

David Lamb said:

Because if the earth is flat, there is nothing to stop us seeing things after they pass the horizon, yet they become invisible to us, however large they are.

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This has nothing to do with the horizon & everything to do with perspective, we've been all over this.

BCP1928 said:

Sexual reassignment surgery goes back to at least Roman times. It didn't become widely know in modern times until the 1950s.

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BCP1928 said:

No, I understand that it was vaginoplasty. The point is, that transition surgery was not just invented by the Biden administration.

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This data is made up. (Either by you or the people you are reading the articles from; that coincide with your own confirmation bias.)

No one did "vaginaplasty" surgeries in males in Ancient Rome!

PloverWing said:

Are you sure? I didn't think much surgery at all was possible that long ago, beyond things like very quick amputations. Did the Romans have this kind of surgical skill?

(You're not just talking about castration, are you?)

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Surprisingly, the Roman army did do surgeries for combat wounds and soldiers did survive the wounds and surgeries. They did have some understanding of how to control infection and the military surgeries were usually more successful than the civilian surgeries. (Difference in population though; soldiers are usually young and healthy and the surgeries were immediately to the time of injury.) The Roman army had a system of dealing with sick and wounded solders.

Interestingly, most of our medical knowledge in dealing with medical trauma (like car accidents) is "battlefield medicine". What's used in hospitals today to deal with head injuries, came off the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

But you are also correct as far as castration goes. Eunuchs were castrated. Some of them also had their penises removed. And the outcome of that; was that the eunuch would have a "bladder plug" made for him out of silver. Eunuchs weren't necessarily "low" on the society hierarchy because they were usually morally honorable men who were the "body guards" of the families of wealthy individuals (or royalty). And the "practicality" of making them eunuchs was to "eliminate the temptation" of engaging in elicit activity with the people in their care.

Eunuches were also men (at least in the west) who were "older" who'd already been married and had children. For example; the story of Potifer in the OT. He was 2nd in charge under Pharaoh and he very well may have been a eunuch (being that close association to Pharaoh's family). And thus could be why Potifer's wife may have been a little "desperate" for Joseph.

ARBITER01 said:

Lol, .... Christians are not suppose to teach and preach on subjects they have no experience in.

The anointing is identified with Jesus over in Luke,...

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.


Jesus's ministry was completely dependent upon that anointing He received from The Father, just like Peter's was, and all the other apostles. It was only because of that Spiritual anointing that The Holy Spirit rested upon Jesus in power, and The Father could perform the signs and miracles through Jesus.

Again,... you don't know what you're trying to teach about here,.... at least not with this subject.

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I see you have understanding. I am interested.

While our intercession for Israel focuses on the extension of its sovereignty to Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley, the issue of internal security affects the entire country. Security is of paramount importance, since ‘all Israel’ will be saved in G-d's land, and the Jews must be alive in order to be saved!

We praise You, Lord G-d, for revealing in Isaiah 60:21 that You have given Your land to Your people so that You may be glorified; therefore, hasten its fulfilment

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time. Isa 55:11 .60:22

King Jesus, lead Your body to stand up for Your will concerning Your land, that it may be done, since You have linked its destiny to the sanctification of Your name

The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake. Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their G-d? But our G-d is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. Ps 87:2 .115:1-3
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. Prov 3:12
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of G-d and our Father; 1 Thess 1:3

We are very grateful to You, Lord, that in Jeremiah 32:44 You describe the land into which You are replanting Israel (32:41) as encompassing the entire area from the [Jordan] to the [Mediterranean Sea]!

Thank you, Abba, that Bibi and other high-ranking government officials recently declared that no "Palestinian" state will be established on Your land; now hold them to that

The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me. Lev 25:23
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Mt 5:37

G-d of the nations, remove all fear of man from the hearts of Israel's leaders that prevents them from extending Israel's sovereignty over all Your land

The Lord is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? Ps 118:6
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe. Prov 29:25

Abba Father, increase the number of Israeli citizens living in Judea and Samaria

And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies. Ps 105:24

Lord, restrain the small number of extremists among them and prevent their unlawful actions from causing the entire settler movement to be viewed as anything other than courageous pioneers

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Gal 5:9

Reduce the actions of the extremists and strengthen the response of the Israeli security forces to terrorists

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Eccl 8:11

We thank You, Lord, that You have discredited the PA among both the "Palestinians" and many in the West, and we ask You to do the same with Hamas, whose popularity has grown since Oct 7.

Almighty G-d, guide Israel's efforts to prevent the PA from creating facts on Your land

And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah. Num 21:3

We thank You, Lord of Hosts, for the massive anti-terror operation carried out jointly by various Israeli security services in Samaria last week, and for its apparent overwhelming success

Through thee will we push down our enemies: through thy name will we tread them under that rise up against us. Ps 44:5

Almighty Lord, free the IDF from all humanistic shackles and enable them to fight the terrorists throughout Your land in a biblical manner, leading them into battle

Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip. I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed. I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet. For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me. Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the Lord, but he answered them not. Ps 18:36-41

We praise You that although terrorist attacks have increased, most of them have failed, and since Oct 7 there have been no successful kidnappings of Israelis or Jews inside or outside the country

And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me. Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. Ps 50:15 .121:4
Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. Jer 31:10

Almighty G-d, expose and thwart all Israeli-Arab terrorist plans against Israel

The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. Ps 34:16

Valletta said:

I hope that instead of trying to undermine the President of the United States in brokering a successful peace agreement that Americans can get together to support peace. Putin does not want peace, he want Ukraine. He has seen before the undermining of U.S. resolve to stand up to dictators by working through the universities and American educational system. Putin has seen the weakness in the E. U. as well. By starting the process Trump can show the world Putin's true intentions.

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By letting Russia have what it wants in Ukraine. How clever!

SabbathBlessings said:

No, you said Jesus changed the Sabbath, but did not provided one verse of Him saying He did.

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Yes I did. Jesus became the lord of everything even of the sabbath. I don’t have to prove a negative. You have to prove that the 4th commandment is included in the new covenant. You have to prove that the law was given to the gentiles including the 4th commandment.

SabbathBlessings said:

I see there is no reasoning, because you refuse to support your own claim, speaking your words as if they are God's.

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My claims are supported.

SabbathBlessings said:

Sad, many people do this and its why I believe God in His own words relates breaking the Sabbath to idol worship Eze20:16 replacing the authority of God who wrote the Ten Commandments according to God Deut4:13 Exo31:18 and claimed them as His commandments Exo20:6 (not Moses) in His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 and lowering it to be equal or lower to what man says. This is not a new problem, it was addressed many times in Scripture.

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What is sad is that you continue to use verses that refer to the Mosaic law to prove that they apply to the gentile church when the law was never given to the gentiles. Your tired argument here does not work and your legalistic view is not scriptural.

Strong in Him said:

Says the scientist of the year.

Why would the curvature of the earth make the sea curve?

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Why wouldn't it ? If what they say is true 8" per mile.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

If Trump pardons Juan Orlando Hernandez. That means, that he doesn't care about drug smuggling. Tha means Trump isn't killing the people on those boats over drugs. So Trump is just murdering those people on the boats.

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Did you ever think any different? Isn't that why his Christian supporters are cheering him on?

Nithavela said:

Well, he's not just murdering them. He's also trying to provoke Venezuela into giving him a casus belli.

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And showing Maduro that if he declares his fealty to Trump all will be forgiven.

rjs330 said:

You can use them that way if you want. But that doesn't mean they aren't the same thing. This is why transgendered people say they are the opposite of their biological sex. And the only way to squre that is to claim sex is not the same thing. They are female inside and male outside. But that is impossible. Because there is no strict interior maleness or strict femaleness and there is no way to strictly define it.

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I don't know about that. You don't seem to have any trouble with strict definitions for it and imposing thse strict definitions is part of what creates the problem in the first place. If it was socially ok to be a physical male and a psychlogical female then trans people would be much better off.

I notice also that besides your strict definition you have an unrealistic tendency to strict dichotomies.

stevevw said:

They cannot possibly experience what they are discovering. Experience is a completely different paradigm to material science. One is quantities like matter, electrons and fields. The other is about qualities like experiences of love, spirituality and colors. A completely different realm.

Its the Mind/Matter metaphysics. What is fundemental mind or matter.

As mentioned earlier the experience of colors like Red for example brings knowledge about nature and reality that material science cannot bring. How could material science test for the experience of Red. The only way to test is to directly ask the experiencer. The experiencer gains the new knowledge directly from nature.

The direct experiences of the ancients with nature and reality gave them a deeper knowledge about reality that the material science can never know. Its like a back door to what material science is trying to understand from the outside. A direct line to nature and reality.

Because the entire worldview belief was immersed in direct experiences of nature, looking at nature from the inside and not from the outside like material science. Becoming part of nature and directly connecting with it.

This gave the ancients a direct experience and knowledge of nature and reality which enabled them to understand how it worked. How stones reacted, how certain locations altered things, how the basic laws of nature worked. Through experience not intellect.

If they became part of nature or immersed in it more deeply through conscious and transcedent experiences then why would they not discover some of natures secrets in how it worked.

In fact I think the direct subjective experiences of nature and reality cannot be seperated out of the equation. Galileo I think said that to do science the subject needed to be removed from the equation. But if fundemental reality has to include subjective conscious experiences then we cannot remove the subject.

Science will never fully understand reality by removing the subject and I think it is actually the direct experiences of reality is how we understand more fully nature and reality.

As the ancients were fully immersed in the most fundemental aspect of reality (the direct conscious experience) without any distraction from enlightened materail scientific thinking. They were able to gain more directly and fully what science has been trying to work out from the outside for 100s of years.

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So in order to understand objective reality we have to abandon our efforts to study objective reality directly and study instead our subjective experience. I'm not sure I understand that. Take the color red, for example. Scientists can study photons of a certain wavelength and learn their properties but they could learn more about those photons and their properties by contemplating their subjective experience of the color red?

Richard T said:

I don't understand why Trump is still so cozy with Russia. If he wants to broker a deal he needs the Ukraine and EU on board. This plan is DOA, perhaps serves only as propaganda to send Ukraine what they need. Germany has pledged over 10 billion to Ukraine, so I think such a surrender is still not around the corner. Ukraine is perhaps fortunate that this deal leaked.

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Ukraine doesn’t have the manpower to keep the frontline. And if European nations send their own, they’re not gonna have Article 5 guarantees. The most shocking of it all is that Trump is acting in a self preserving manner.

DaisyDay said:

No, it wasn't. Check your facts.

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You're correct; it wasn't Harvard who did the surgeries; it was John Hopkins University who did the surgeries. But the studies were collaborated upon by Harvard.

rambot said:

Your use of the phrase "suicide stats" is really vague as it's split into ideation, attempt and successful attempt. Generally, these all follow the same pattern from what I've seen but not always.
That said, a lot of the studies I've skimmed are comparing post op suicide attempts with the GENERAL population and I gotta say right off the bat, that is NOT an apprpriate comparision.
All of the stats you are quoting above is PRE-op. The link you provided didn't actually refer to "Gender affirming care" just "Gender minorities getting treatment and gender minorities with disabilities [nonspecified]. It cannot be deduced that the article was referring to "post op" individuals but seems to be referring to 'preop" phrase of their transition. Maybe I missed it?


The suicide ideation rate pre-op is 40% in trans kiddos (has has been consistent with the 4 trans people I've worked with (not really...they all had suicidal ideation).

So ....unbelievably shocking, that is somehow an improvement.


What is so utterly and completely baffling is that the regret rate for these surgeries is just, unbelievably low compared to so many other kinds of surgeries.

If this regret rate is low (and it's undeniably low), then one has to wonder if the surgery remains the problem 10 years later or if, perhaps their own belief or treatment and lack of acceptance in their society would continue to make them feel ostracized, alone and suicidal (paraphrasing a study that noted this as the likely reason).

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The Medicare / Medicaid data base does distinguish between ideation and completed suicides.

"Gender minority" can only be "those seeking gender affirming care" because homosexuals who don't have gender dysphoria; are not considered "gender minorities". Homosexuality is a sexual orientation; not a body identity issue.

The Medicare data also showed that longitudinal wise; the "40% of trans kids" having suicidal ideations; "gender affirming care" did not improve those stats. Still, 7 to 10 years post "transition" 40% were still suicidal and 20% had "successful" suicides.

Or..... maybe it's not actually society that's the problem; but an innate understanding of truth; that one can not be the opposite sex. You have a Y chromosome or you don't!

SabbathBlessings said:

They do not have Jesus saying we do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment and you know it otherwise you would simply produce the verse. God knows it too, who we can't hide anything from Ecc12:13-14

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Sure it does. You just refuse to understand that the 10 commandments are part of the Mosaic law and was never repeated into Jesus two love commandments. Second, I don’t have to prove a negative, you do. There is no mention of the 4th commandment being part of the new covenant so you have to show where it is part of the new covenant. Third, the law was NEVER given to the gentiles collectively so it wouldn’t apply anyway. This is the reason that Jesus repeated the moral commandments into His two love commandments. You have to show that the gentiles were given the law also. This is you burden of proof not mine.

Studyman said:

Abraham was married long before he was called by God to leave the religions of his father. This is no proof that God's Law didn't exist. Hopefully God doesn't hold the sins of Abraham against him, before God showed him "the way of the Lord". Otherwise we are all doomed.



Sarah gave her handmade to be Abram's wife. How is Abram guilty of transgressing God's Laws, by marrying her?

Ex. 21: 10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.



This is true, in my understanding as well.




Moses never said any such thing. The Bible doesn't support the popular religious philosophy that the Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments God gave Abraham to obey, are different than the Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments God gave Abraham's Children to obey.



This is true, in my view as well..

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If you are a law keeper then can you commit adultery ? The law says plainly that people who commit adultery are to be killed. Leviticus 20:10 GOD S law is equal and fair to all people. There is only one law for anyone, Exodus 12:49 Numbers 15:15-16 Just as there is only one hope of salvation there is only one law that GOD gave through Moses that applies to all. As GOD said, every man shall die for his own sin, sin is the transgression of the law and the wages of sin is death. All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of GOD. No one gets out of the law unless they are in Christ.

Stopped_lurking said:

So the risk of suicide is almost double in veterans than in older gender minority adults. That is a good argument to avoid the military I guess.


In the longitudinal studies comparing pre- and post-surgery risk collated in this review, the risk for suicide are reduced after gender affirming surgery.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/26318318231189836

However the risk is still elevated compared to the population in general, but that is not strange. Living as a trans persons is of course another potential hardship.

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The writers of the study you cite were all from a "gender affirming care" clinic in Portugal. (Can we say "conflict of interest"!)

The data I posted was 10 years of collection from Medicare and Medicaid data. Which is millions of people; not just 31,000 participations whom your data even says; half the data collected was just psychological treatment data. Doesn't say anything about chemical or physical alterations to the body. Plus the majority of the data collected in the study you presented; did not surpass 5 years post treatment.

And besides; you misread (probably intentionally) the Medicare / Medicaid data. I presented.
Of people who get "transgender care" including cross sex hormones and surgeries; between 7 and 10 years post "transition" 20% of those patients commit suicide. 40% attempt suicide.

Of everyone who's ever served in the US armed forces. (Again millions of people) during times of war or peace; 14% of ALL veterans commit suicide. 20% of a population is more than 14% of a population.

Apple Sky said:

And why is this ?

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Because if the earth is flat, there is nothing to stop us seeing things after they pass the horizon, yet they become invisible to us, however large they are.

SabbathBlessings said:

This is a different argument than what I asked.

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No. This is the argument that you asked. These are Jesus own words, are they not? You just don’t like it because it doesn’t match your legalistic arguments.

rstrats said:

As Freth touched on, what scripture do you have which refers to the first day of the week as the Lord's Day?

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1. The apostles gathered on the first day for services (Acts 20:7).

2. The tithes were always collected on the first day of the week. (1 Cor. 16:2).

3. The vast majority of Jesus apparitions for the 40 days after resurrection happened on a Sunday. (Multiple verses).

4. All testimony of the early church (first and second century) attest to a Sunday service.

Also, why would I want to worship Jesus on a day where He was still dead? The resurrection is the culmination of the gospel and the defeat of death and sin. Secondly, the 4th commandment was never a moral commandment but a ceremonial commandment which is why is not repeated into Jesus two love commandments.