Bradskii said:

How could they not be representative? One is, by definition, a government where rules are informed by a deity and the other is simply one where it's not. You can't get a more basic distinction than that. If you're going to decide whether or not to have a theocracy then your only initial options are 'a theocracy' or 'not a theocracy'. That is...secular.

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"Secular" could be any form of governance, since it just means worldly or related to the world. It's an empty term when it comes to government, and could describe anything from a democratic republic to a monarchy to a totalitarian communist government. it's simply not a meaningful term. So I see no reason to give preference to a secular government purely on the basis of its secularity, as I would much rather live under a magnanimous theocracy than a totalitarian "secular" government. The categories simply leave far too many possibilities open.

Fervent said:

I don't think the categories are representative of the options, "secular" is particularly vacuous when we're discussing political entities.

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How could they not be representative? One is, by definition, a government where rules are informed by a deity and the other is simply one where it's not. You can't get a more basic distinction than that. If you're going to decide whether or not to have a theocracy then your only initial options are 'a theocracy' or 'not a theocracy'. That is...secular.

HIM said:

The only way one dies to the law is to die to sin and not live any longer therein. If we sin we have died to the Law. This is the context of chapter 6 and 7 of Romans.

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We die to sin by being joined with Christ, not through our personal performance. The law passed away when the testator died, just as the death of a spouse frees one from a marriage. To re-establish the law is to deny the efficacy of Christ's death.

FreeinChrist said:

at least 10 others have been re-arrested.

From

At least 10 pardoned insurrectionists face other criminal charges - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington

At least 10 January 6th insurrectionists pardoned by President Trump have already been rearrested, charged or sentenced for other crimes.

www.citizensforethics.org

Andrew Taake - arrested for solicting a minor

Edward Kelley - arrested and convicted for plotting the murder of FBI agents who investigated his J6 offences

Emily Hernandez - serving 10 years for a 2022 drunken driving incident that killed one.

Daniel Ball - Arrested for gun possession. He had a history of domestic violence.

David Daniel - possession of child porn

Shane Jason Woods - convicted of reckless homicide and drunk driving

Theodore Middendorf - convicted of sexually molestation of a 7 year old in 2024

Taylor Taranto - illegal gun possession and threatening to blow up a building

There are two more.

Now this fellow.

Trump should have been more judicious in who he pardons.

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Three of ten of them, nailed as pedophiles. What is going on with those guys?

Fervent said:

As I said, if you want to put yourself under the yoke of the law that's your business. But in doing so you are not honoring Christ, because you are declaring His death without effect.

Did you, or did you not die to the law? How then can you live under it any longer?

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The only way one dies to the law is to die to sin and not live any longer therein. If we sin we have NOT died to the Law. This is the context of chapter 6 and 7 of Romans.

partinobodycular said:

Whoever they are they certainly seem to be good at trying yours. But I'm wondering, is that a shortcoming in them or you?

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Their fate is solely in the hands of God.

Desk trauma said:

Looks to be a infowars knock off.

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You sure about that?

animals crackers

rambot said:

But then you don't want "Theocracies"...you want "A theocracy that aligns with your beliefs". I would imagine you wouldn't be keen to have a Muslim Caliphate. So no...you don't want theocracy as a TYPE of government.

Frankly, the BEST case scenario for any religious person is either going to be the theocracy of hteir religion in first place and as CLOSE to 2nd as can be maintained would be "Secular".

Because pretty much any other theocracy is going to come after other believers (heck....more than a few secular govts. do that too....but many don't)

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Yeah, my rejection of the categories as not demonstrative of the options doesn't really imply I want a theocracy before Jesus returns. I just don't find the categorization of "secular" governance a meaningful enough phrase to serve as a determinant.

Phil G said:

It wasn’t an order, it was a suggestion seeing as you’re the one who brought Luther into it. Look who’s touchy now…

And you’ve been given plenty of chances to answer for your claims. You just change the subject when you can’t answer…as usual.

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Why are being so horrible ?

Fervent said:

You may believe so, but I see no reason not to differentiate between theocracies anymore than it wouldn't make sense to endorse any governance simply on the ground that it is "secular".

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But then you don't want "Theocracies"...you want "A theocracy that aligns with your beliefs". I would imagine you wouldn't be keen to have a Muslim Caliphate. So no...you don't want theocracy as a TYPE of government.

Frankly, the BEST case scenario for any religious person is either going to be the theocracy of hteir religion in first place and as CLOSE to 2nd as can be maintained would be "Secular".

Because pretty much any other theocracy is going to come after other believers (heck....more than a few secular govts. do that too....but many don't)

Christmas crackers

It's early days, but I'd say the over-arching common theme would probably be, we are utterly lousy at communication and healthy conflict. (By which I mean, actually working through issues rather than all the games we see played in parishes rather than dealing with the underlying problem).

Matthew 12:48-50
He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Orthodox Jews actually petitioned to ban parts of the Bible as they are deemed anti-Semitic! Even the Jews understood!

Fisherking said:

The reason you guys get everything wrong is TIMING ISSUES. God does not call Israel unto repentance unto the Fulness of the Gentiles [SERVICE] is come. We can clearly see this in Zech. 13:8-9 where Israel repents then one verse later the Day of the Lord arrives in Zech. 14:1 (Middle of the 70th week) Also, in Malachi 4:5-6 we see that Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord (1260 middle of the week) so Elijah and Moses is my guess, returns JUST BEFORE the DOTL, so Israel only repents after the Pre Trib. Rapture. Not understanding the timing of the Rapture is a part of misunderstanding people have about Israel still being Israel. They repent, accept their Messiah Jesus AFTER the Church is in heaven, marrying the Lamb.

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Which does not alter the fact that God has no people who are not in Christ and, therefore, are not the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

Are there any common themes to learn from?

Phil G said:

I’m not being touchy. You are

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I'm not the one who's saying ' Well you tell me.' as if it's an order.

Phil G said:

You’re jumping from one claim to another, as usual. And when you can’t answer, you’ll jump to yet another claim.

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& do try giving me a chance 2 answer .

Here is something I have found very unexpected in my new role.

So; I'm spending a lot of time visiting practicing Anglicans who are in hospital. And I would have thought I'd be listening to them talk about their health, their emotions, their relationships (etc). But I reckon about 80% of the conversations I'm having with these folk are about their problems in their parish. What they don't like about their rector, struggling with change, parish conflict, whatever.

It's like... I'm of their world enough for them to think I'll get where they're coming from, but far enough from their particular parish to be an impartial listener.

What it's actually making me think, though, is that we've obviously done a terrible job equipping people with the skills, the character, and the wisdom to navigate conflict and interpersonal issues in the church. And I am wondering whether there might be something that we could be doing better...

seeking.IAM said:

It seems like if you had a really good sermon, you ought to reward yourself.

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Paidiske said:

And, on the other side, if you had a really bad morning, you ought to console yourself.

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Win-win!

soda pop

Pop group

Our parish has been doing the prayer to St. Michael after Mass. I was traveling and surprised to find it at another church out of state. How about yours.

Bradskii said:

The point being made was that you don't get to take a quick peek at the leader board to see what brand of theocracy you're likely to get. The decision is first: Secular governance or theocracy. Pick one and then you can decide on what type you'd like.

Would you first pick theocracy if the majority of citizens were Muslims? I don't think so. But me? My first choice is always secular. I don't want society run on the basis of 'what is written' in any given holy book.

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I don't think the categories are representative of the options, "secular" is particularly vacuous when we're discussing political entities.