Servus said:

Climate scientist peer review is kinda like parapsychologist peer review.

Click to expand...

My prescription for you living with "your truth" as you see the world start to change is to say this phrase above three times before bed. Have a chocolate cookie and a nice mug of warm milk.

As the Oracle in the Matrix said, "...eat the cookie - and pretty soon you'll feel right as rain."

Saw this on Politifact:

Neogaia777 said:

Judgement

Salvation might be assured for those put their faith/hope/trust/love in Jesus Christ, but a gain or loss of rewards isn't though, etc, and it's regretable to suffer loss, etc.

I'm aware of that, but I do thank you though.

Yes, thank you.

Judgemental and hypocritical people who don't think, etc.

But, I probably shouldn't have taken it out on @fhansen though, because he might not be one of those maybe, etc.

So, I apologize to you @fhansen, ok.

God Bless.

Click to expand...

No worries, you were just being judgemental, LOL . JK. But my main point was that the gospel isn't only about forgiveness of sin but also about the grace to begin to align ourselves with God's will, to His determination for each of us even if still imperfectly in this life.

CoreyD said:

I appreciate your taking the time to look up the definition, and share it.
Would you mind putting the definition in your own words. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Free will
2 of 2

1
: voluntary choice or decision
I do this of my own free will


2
: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Number 1 represents a certain type of choice/decision and that is a voluntary choice/decision. An involuntary choice/decision is one that is dictated out of necessity, obligation, coercion, external events outside of one's control --> see determinism.

Number 2 is the philosophical meaning which ponders to what degree human choices are determined by antecedent events including God's role.

CoreyD said:

Would you agree that atheists display these qualities in some measure - love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:?

Click to expand...

Yes, because God's Word is the Light and life of all people.

CoreyD said:

Do, we understand then that these qualities are of true value... that is, they refer to qualities of a godly nature, that are demonstrated to God's honor?

Click to expand...

I think that's what we're experiencing in the knowledge of good and evil.

CoreyD said:

They are what God looks for in those who learn the Christ.

Click to expand...

If you mean God seeks those who worship Him in truth and spirit, I agree. The Christ is a revelation through the Holy Spirit and He is the one who renews the mind..

CoreyD said:

So, love shown by those in the world, is surpassed by love which is a quality of the spirit.

Click to expand...

I would say it's the same love. The quality or purity is what the world tends to diminish.

CHAP. II.—CONGRATULATIONS AND ENTREATIES.​

As to our fellow-servant Burrhus, your deacon in regard to God and blessed in all things, I pray that he may continue blameless for the honour of the Church, and of your most blessed bishop. Crocus also, worthy both of God and you, whom we have received as the manifestation of your love to us, hath in all things refreshed7 me, and “hath not been ashamed of my chain,” as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ will also refresh9 him; together with Onesimus, and Burrhus, and Euplus, and Fronto, by means of whom I have, as to love, beheld all of you. May I always have joy of you, if indeed I be worthy of it. It is therefore befitting that you should in every way glorify Jesus Christ, who hath glorified you, that by a unanimous obedience “ye may be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment, and may all speak the same thing concerning the same thing,” and that, being subject to the bishop and the presbytery, ye may in all respects be sanctified.

Ignatius of Antioch, “The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians,” in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 50.

Click to expand...

Do the scriptures really teach us to be unanimously obedient to the bishop and presbytery? To all say the same thing concerning the same thing? As though what, Bishops have all knowledge and alone express the teachings and will of God by way of proper witnessing? So that we should imitate and subject ourselves to their examples and manner of teaching in the place of who, Jesus and His apostles?

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Our Lord and the Apostle Paul did not point to Bishops or a presbytery or clergy to whom a supposed laity were to be subordinated. To the contrary, they warned against those who desired after and sought such titles or exalted positions. Nor were those of the church with varying gifts instructed to seek out the approval of other mere men to learn what to say or how to present the truths of the gospel. To the contrary, they were pointed to the study of the scriptures themsleves for knowledge of such, and the power of the Holy Spirit of God unto the recollection of truth and power of presentation unto conversions. It was only in the apostasy that the Christian religion became Imperially mandated, and a laity was subjected to a clergy that were supported and backed up by Imperial command. Though some such as Ignatius planted the seeds for such illicit authority and exaltation of one man over another within professed Christianity. Once the church and the empire were united, then such illicit union brought about the enforcement these sentiments previously sought out only by way of persuasion by such as Ignatius. Bringing persecution upon those who would not conform to such wishes by mere men, with no scriptural command concerning it.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Nevertheless -

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The knowledge of truth was to be obtained by careful and prayerful study of the holy scriptures. Not the boasted positions of mere men who sought and seek to lord themselves over us. As to the type and power of the presentation of scriptural truths -

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Mrk 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Yarddog said:

Nobody has done what Trump has done. He has pardoned his friends and tried to jail his enemies. No President has ignored the law in ways Trump has.

Click to expand...

Exercising constitutional authority is not facist no matter how you wish to spin it.

What laws has he ignored?

His enemies have tried to jail him. Yet you didnt call them facists. Hypocritical arguments won't be accepted as evidence of facism.

2PhiloVoid said:

Can you provide me an example of some Skeptic who presses their form of skepticism in the way that you're citing. There are different degrees of Skepticism and even Hume recognized this. Citing an example of the challenge you're wanting to put a crack into may help me identify some Christian philosopher or other who has said something substantive in regard to this issue.

Click to expand...

Russell's teapot-like arguments, the common canard of "you can't prove a negative", and arguments along those lines. Basically the assertion that the one making the "positive" claim bears the burden. My main point of contention is that in ordinary discourse we don't routinely accept skepticism as the appropriate response to every claim, we require some kind of reason for skepticism. If my neighbor tells me about their friend from work Mark, whom I have never met, my first response is not to demand that my neighbor prove to me Mark exists because I have never met him. I have to have a reason to not believe Mark exists.

2PhiloVoid said:

Personally, while I identify myself as skeptic from time to time, mine is only a mild form, a nuance of my appropriating a Critical line of inquiry. I have a difficult time thinking anyone can be a Global skeptic or even a Pyrronnian skeptic.

Click to expand...

My skepticism is more a rhetorical matter, because I am more of a pragmatist in that I see "knowledge" as an unattainable goal and instead rely on a tentative model-based epistemology. I don't think skepticism is tenable to live by, but I do think that the skeptical position isn't given enough weight in most discussions of "truth"...we are far too quick to accept that because it is necessary to adopt either a circular justification or a dogmatic one in order to escape infinite regress that we let whatever it is that we think is the right fit for an axiom off and accept assertion as a valid grounds for acceptance. So I maintain that I am a skeptic, but recognize that skepticism is fundmentally untenable. My point is simply to reverse the question from "why should I believe?" to "why shouldn't I believe?"

2PhiloVoid said:

Oh, I never pretend to do so. I just hold folks accountable for their negligences all the way around.

Click to expand...

Fair enough

2PhiloVoid said:

Let me rummage through my library and see what I can come up with.

Click to expand...

Much appreciated

Yarddog said:

Ignoring the law and prosecuting his enemies. Killing people.

Click to expand...

No he hasn't. He was prosecuted by his enemies and no called rhem facists.

Its called fair justice. If you arw going to prosecute someone for doing the same thing you are doing then you deserve to be prosecuted as well. That's called justice.

Killing people? You are going to have to be more specific than that.

St. Helens said:

Pretty good. The topics are split up into nice bite sizes. That's a good start.

Click to expand...

I also have John Calvin's Institutes but I'm not entirely the craziest on the man himself, so I've been rather hesitant to pick the book up and actually study it.

Desk trauma said:

Hence my use of “legal authority”.

Click to expand...

You use those words like they mean anything.

I understand authority, but what is that legal thing?

Legal... Legul... Leegall...

RileyG said:

I’m no scholar, but I’m pretty sure RBG even thought Roe v Wade was a bad law.

I think the only way to really heal our nation is return to God and holy marriage. The nuclear family. The sex obsessed culture needs to end.

Peace

Click to expand...

It is always there ( obsession with sex) no matter what generation. The good thing about this generation, we can see what is happening and guild them to a better way, genuinely. In the past, it was all hidden which is far worse.
Thanks for sharing.

Moving on to the Epistles of Ignatius.

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE EPHESIANS

LONGER VERSION

CHAP. I.—PRAISE OF THE EPHESIANS.​

I HAVE become acquainted with your greatly-desired name in God, which ye have acquired by the habit of righteousness, according to the faith and love in Christ Jesus our Saviour. Being the followers of the love of God towards man, and stirring up yourselves by the blood of Christ, you have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you. For, on hearing that I came bound from Syria for the sake of Christ, our common hope, trusting through your prayers to be permitted to fight with beasts at Rome, that so by martyrdom I may indeed become the disciple of Him “who gave Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God,” [ye hastened to see me]. I have therefore received your whole multitude in the name of God, through Onesimus, a man of inexpressible love, and who is your bishop, whom I pray you by Jesus Christ to love, and that you would all seek to be like him. Blessed be God, who has granted unto you, who are yourselves so excellent, to obtain such an excellent bishop.

Ignatius of Antioch, “The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians,” in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 50.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I may be wrong, but I don’t remember any of the apostles praying for martyrdom, in order to become a disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ. As though He required that His followers seek to be literally martyred by their enemies in faith. Even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ prayed that He might be delivered from he cup of His humiliation and death by crucifixion.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

The New Covenant sacrifice of the sinner is a spiritual one. Which is even more necessary than a literal one at the hands of God’s enemies in martyrdom. Without the spiritual sacrifice first, a literal one would be meaningless and accomplish nothing. This is aside from the fact that one who has already spiritually sacrificed their lives unto God in Christ Jesus our Lord, would and will of course be ready for martyrdom if or when God allowed for the same unto the glory and honor of His name. Nevertheless, it is not required for salvation or to be a desciple of Christ in scripture. Or I would not imagine therefore not a thing, that all Christinas should pray for.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

I have healthcare through my employer. Our open enrollment hasn't started yet, but I'm worried. I posted this in the Shutdown thread regarding ACA rates:

Higher Obamacare Prices Become Public in a Dozen States

Consumers are facing greater costs for their 2026 A.C.A. health coverage as Congress continues to debate whether to extend subsidies that help people afford their premiums.



Based on the newly posted information, a family of four making $130,000 in Maine would face an increase of $16,100 in annual premiums next year because they would no longer qualify for more generous subsidies, said Gideon Lukens, a health policy researcher for the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which supports extending the subsidies.

Older people will also see sharp increases, according to his calculations. In Kentucky, a 60-year-old couple making $85,000 per year could face an increase of $23,700 in annual premiums. In Nevada, a similar couple could pay an additional $18,100 in annual premiums, while in Minnesota, the cost might be $15,500 more and, in Maryland, an additional $13,700.



---

Apple Sky said:

I agree -Thank you d Taylor

Click to expand...

No you don't. You said it is proven that the horizon always rises to eye level.

Desk trauma said:

I am not convinced he does.


It’s not something he “allows” as people don’t require his permission for such gatherings nor does he have the legal authority to stop them.

Click to expand...

Face it, if he felt like it, he would totally stop it.

The only reason he doesn't is because the protests are all about him, and trump loves things that are all about him.

wing2000 said:

If the FBI knows the cartel has drug operations inside a home, can they now order the military to blow it up without first attempting to arrest those inside?

Click to expand...

The FBI ain't ordering the military to do anything. You know that.

childeye 2 said:

You think being told to keep the commandments and live or not keep them and die is not a forced decision. When you're commanded to do something by an authority figure, it's NOT voluntary.

Click to expand...

When you are given a choice to do something, it's voluntary, whichever way you choose.
Deuteronomy 30:19, 20 has no command.
Did you read "Therefore choose life" as a command?
I'm sorry. May I suggest you read it again, and connect it with the words that precede it - " I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing."

I hope you see there is no command there. If not... it's better I keep quiet at this point.

childeye 2 said:

Not really. The context of Jesus saying, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do", implies the character of the father manifests in the fathers children.

Click to expand...

Yes, and how did they get the character of their father?

childeye 2 said:

Objectively there is One Way in monotheism. So subjectively speaking if we have a corrupt image of god/gods in our minds, what is right and wrong becomes subjective.

Click to expand...

What is right and wrong cannot become subjective... unless God is dead.
Do you believe God is dead, or that God determines right and wrong?
Your subjective view cannot change what is objective.

So, the law says you cannot make a U turn on an interstate highway.
You think the law is backward, and so you make a U turn on interstate highway.
How does that change the law, and you being sentence for a violation of the law?

childeye 2 said:

It matters greatly. Mankind was given over to uncleanness and to reprobate minds because of subjective imagery of god/gods.

Click to expand...

We were talking about Eve, so you need to get past Eve, before you get to sinful mankind.
Nowhere does the Bible say Eve was "given over to uncleanness and to reprobate minds because of subjective imagery of god/gods"

childeye 2 said:

Yes, Adam was made without sin. It's not like God had bad breath when he breathed into Adam's nostrils and became a living soul. Adam was made from the earth and he was perfect for God's purpose, but he wasn't perfection. The second Adam, the Christ, is perfection.

I already see that, and I'm not disagreeing with you about that. I agree Adam was a corruptible soul in his innocence. The second Adam is perfection. The free will that is in Christ is not a will that thinks it has a freedom to sin, it's a will that is being set free from sin.

Unforced choice/decision? That would depend on knowledge. Doesn't knowledge and wisdom matter in the will? Doesn't the wise man make wise choices, and doesn't the fool make foolish choices? There are negative forces and positive forces.

Click to expand...

Ah. So the fool makes a bad, or poor choice, because he does not put knowledge to good use, which is what wisdom is.
Whereas, the wise man puts his knowledge to good use, and prospers.
Thank you very much.

The Proverbs and the book of Ecclesiastes are full of the contrast between the fool and the wise ones.
Here is one. Ecclesiastes 10:2 - A wise man’s heart inclines him to the right, but a fool’s heart to the left.
Did you notice, the scripture supports what I said earlier? It's what's in the heart - the self.

So, Adam and Eve acted foolishly... we can say they were fools, because they failed to use knowledge in a proper way.
They were enticed by their own desires. James 1:14

From your comment, you agree then, that an unforced choice/decision, is an exercising of free will. Yes?

childeye 2 said:

I see Love as a positive force. For example, let's say I see someone cold or starving and I feel compassion, and I hurt with them, and I'm compelled to do something to alleviate the hurt. That doesn't happen because I choose to feel that way. It's a manifestation of the Spirit of God. Now I could choose to turn away, or I can choose to actually do something. But If I choose to turn away, it haunts me in my conscience. I don't choose to feel the guilt over how I betrayed my fellow man; I am forced to. I could have had joy and now I have misery.

Click to expand...

By your reasoning, atheist have the manifestation of the Spirit of God.
No. It is because God made man in his image, that man has these attributes.

The difference between the atheist that does not turn away, even from a dog that is trying to cross the street in heavy traffic, is that the qualities of the fruit of God's spirit goes beyond natural compassion, which the Bible says will become less evident in most people in the last days (2 Timothy 3:1-3).
It extends to even loving one's enemies, and not doing anything to harm them, but rather doing good to them.
Also, it allows one to...
Romans 12:17-21

The atheist does not receive the spirit of God automatically. In fact, none of us do.
Here is how one receives the spirit of God.
In fact, why don't you tell me, how one receives the holy spirit.

childeye 2 said:

Eve didn't know right or wrong, she trusted/believed God.

Click to expand...

You do not believe God told Adam and Eve what was right and wrong, regarding the trees?

childeye 2 said:

The serpent was the manipulator that sowed distrust through an adulterated imagery of god/gods, which caused her to experience a false hope which brought death. None of that is in your analogy.

Click to expand...

Eve's death was her own.
Adam's death was not brought about by Eve's decision.
Adam's death came through his own willful disobedience... his unforced choice to disobey God. 1 Timothy 2:14
Not only did Adam's unwise choice result in his death. It resulted in the death of all his progeny. Romans 5:12
In fact, mankind dies, not because of Eve, but because of Adam... his unforced, unbeguiled, willful decision.

childeye 2 said:

Not accurately. God never said don't 'touch' it lest you die.

Click to expand...

You don't know that.

childeye 2 said:

I don't know why you would say that. Here's what God says--> But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: FOR in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

'For' means 'because'. Hence that's the reason.

Click to expand...

God told them what eating from the tree would lead to.
The Bible does not say that is the reason both Adam and Eve believed it was wrong to eat from the tree.
You said, you studied semantics particular to psycholinguistics for well over forty years of my life... So I don't have to educate you in grammar.
I'd rather ask a child who is aged 13-16, and learning basic grammar.

You could do the same. if you have any young ones around.
Would you like me to give you the answers I got?

childeye 2 said:

I believe God wouldn't lie. I don't believe He sets people up to fail.

Click to expand...

That's right, but remember, what you think, and what we read, are two different things.
I don't know of any scholar that would agree with you, that reading God's statement translates to Adam and Eve's reason for not eating.
That, to me, is both grammatically incorrect, as well as... dare I say that.

childeye 2 said:

D
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. <--This is why the hid

Click to expand...

Adam hid because he was naked?
You making fun at me?
Earlier, you said, Adam and Eve were not blind, and the Bible, in Genesis 1:25 reads... And the man and his wife were both naked, but they were not ashamed.

If Adam hid because he was naked, why did he not hide from the beginning?
Obviously, because that is not the reason he hid. He lied... just as he did, when he tried to blame God, for giving him the woman, of whom he previously exclaimed...
“At last this is bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
[t]She shall be called [u]‘woman,’
Because [v]she was taken out of [w]man.” Genesis 2:23

See, how quickly Adam became like the one he sided with.

childeye 2 said:

You're taking this out of context. Jesus is saying the children of the devil do what their father does.

Click to expand...

In what way did I take it out of context?
Did the scriptures not say, "your will is to do your father’s desires"?
Did they not want to kill Jesus which was in line with their father's desire?
What did I say wrong, exactly?

Oh, I see. You are focusing on something other than what I pointed out.
The question was..
Did the angel that became Satan the Devil want to disobey God?
The Bible's answer: John 8:44 Yes, he did.
John 8:44 - When he [the Devil] lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

You are confusing two different things.

childeye 2 said:

You're taking this Out of context. Paul is saying the woman should not usurp authority over the man because the man was not the one deceived. He's not saying Adam knew God was a liar.

Click to expand...

Did you just write what I just read?
Can you clarify, did you make a mistake.
I need to know, if to continue.

Edit
I must be seeing things. I thought I read, 'He's saying Adam knew God was a liar.'
I'll get back to the rest later though. I'm doing something else right now.

There's a simple thought experiment people should do:
If Obama or Biden said or did the things Trump said/does would you be okay with it? Are you willing to excuse Trump for things you'd never excuse a Democratic president for?

Donald Trump is an absolute disgrace, not only to the office of the President, but to the entire country.

No it's not "orange man bad", put on a thinking cap and consider the actions--are the actions worthy of being defended or not?

I don't think Donald Trump is bad because "the liberal media" told me to not like him.
I don't think Donald Trump is bad because he has a weird spray tan, or because there's something about the name "Trump" I don't like, or some other silly superficial reason.

I think Donald Trump is bad because the things he says--the actual words that come out of his mouth which are frequently recorded on video and audio, and which he himself types out on social media--are horrible and rotten. I think Donald Trump is bad because the actual things he does are, in fact, not good. His words and his actions are sufficient reason for me to consider him an absolutely loathsome individual.

If it was a Democrat doing and saying these things, I would not be okay with it. This isn't about political party. This is about having and holding to an objective standard of morality, believing in an objective standard of truth, and subscribing to a Christian moral framework about not only how individuals ought to act (in particular, those who identify as or confess to be Christians themselves), but how a moral, ethical, and free society ought to function, how leaders ought to conduct themselves in such a way as to be accountable to the public they serve, and that the whole point of government and the function of the rule of law is to enshrine the sacred dignity of human persons.

If you were to ask me what I thought Trump supporters actually believe, morally and ethically speaking, my answer would be I have no idea. There does not appear to be any standard of morality that I can recognize. Morality seems relative, subjective, and entirely fluid--what is good or bad depends not on the goodness or wrongness of a word or act itself, but seems entirely contingent on subjectivity: Trump says X, so that's good, Trump contradicts himself and says Not-X, so that's good. Trump himself, is treated as the final arbiter of morality--he speaks and whatever he says is great, he acts and whatever he does is fantastic--there is no moral standard against which he can be judged or criticized, because he is himself is the ever-shifting, never stable, wibbly-wobbly platform of morality.

But then I'm also told that I can't believe what I see with my eyes, hear with my ears. It's an always shifting quicksand of never-truth but "always true", because "true" is whatever Trump says it is in that moment. And if Trump changes his mind 10 minutes later, then "truth" changes to match the beat. There can never be truth, there can only ever be what Trump says--but only what Trump says right now, because that could change at any moment. And I suppose what's "right" and what's "wrong" is just nodding whenever he speaks. Never having to develop a conscience, never having to have a moral standard, never having to rely on objective standards of good and evil, truth and lie, what is real and what is fake--just turn the light switch off and bobble-head yes to Daddy Trump.

-CryptoLutheran