Dan1988 said:

Where is the command in any of those verses? answer only in your imagination, you just made that up.
God doesn't have a problem with his grammar, He doesn't need you to change the wording of His verses. He is quite capable of speaking for Himself, even if you don't agree with what He says.

Jesus was simply stating facts, like If you put your hand in the fire, you will get burned. He wasn't saying I command you to put your hand in the fire so I can prove my point.

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Answer my questions. Was Noah commanded to build an ark or not? Was Moses commanded to go to Pharaoh or not? Was Jonah commanded to go to Nineveh or not? Answer the question.

Dan1988 said:

No, you're dead wrong again and let me prove it. You reckon dead men hear the gospel, but God said it's impossible for them to hear it.

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Where did He say that? If you’re going to make claims about something that God said it’s best to actually quote where exactly He said it. Then you’ll have actually proved something. Making empty claims isn’t proof of anything.

Dan1988 said:

From what I can see, your erroneous interpret of the gospel always stems from your premise that "man is saved by works" or ":keeping the law" but that idea was well and truly debunked by the Reformers 500 years ago. I'm surprised you haven't woken up to it yet.

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Quote where I said anything about anyone being saved by works. I never said anything about anyone being saved by works or keeping the law. In fact I don’t recall mentioning the law anywhere in this discussion and the only time I’ve mention salvation by works is when I was telling you that what I had posted had nothing to do with works.

Dan1988 said:

The gospel is trash to those who are perishing, it has the stench of death to them and they hate it. So what makes you think that any intelligent person would embrace something that stinks like a corpse??? your version of the gospel makes no sense at all.

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So you’re saying that Jesus and Paul were wrong then? You’re just going to ignore the passages of scripture that I quoted where they specifically said that the word of God does save people?

iluvatar5150 said:

This is true for every president.


Yeah, instead in his first term, he just let a bunch of foreign dignitaries stay at his DC hotel to curry favor and in his second term, is using his likeness to sell merch and cryptoscamps.

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Not to mention, soliciting expensive gifts and contributions.

zippy2006 said:

zippy2006 said:

Yes, well I would say that there is a great deal of space between "avoiding all serious topics and disagreements," and, "needing to challenge differences of opinion." Yet this thread is about evangelization and the faith, and that strikes me as a serious topic that true friends would discuss.

It could be put this way: if one believes that some reality (e.g. God) is central to human life and human happiness, then true friendship requires that this reality be discussed with their friends, at least occasionally. This is because friends care for one another.

...Anecdotally, I know a woman who was trying to keep her wedding costs down, and decided not to invite many of her friends. The friends who were not invited were insulted, and her response was, "If they were really my friends, then they wouldn't care whether I invited them to my wedding." She had it exactly backwards. It was precisely because they were her friends that they wanted to be at such an important event in her life. The same sort of thing is happening in cases such as these. "If they were really my friend, they wouldn't share with me about the life of grace and Jesus Christ."* This is precisely backwards. The truth is rather, "If they were really my friend, they would share with me about the life of grace and Jesus Christ." And again, this doesn't mean that one must be pushy or "preachy," but the point stands, and in my experience non-religious friends really do understand this fact, and may even begin raising the topic themselves.

* Or more generally, "If they were really my friend, they wouldn't share with me what they see to be of ultimate importance."

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...Anecdotally, I know a woman who was trying to keep her wedding costs down, and decided not to invite many of her friends. The friends who were not invited were insulted, and her response was, "If they were really my friends, then they wouldn't care whether I invited them to my wedding." She had it exactly backwards. It was precisely because they were her friends that they wanted to be at such an important event in her life. The same sort of thing is happening in cases such as these. "If they were really my friend, they wouldn't share with me about the life of grace and Jesus Christ."* This is precisely backwards. The truth is rather, "If they were really my friend, they would share with me about the life of grace and Jesus Christ." And again, this doesn't mean that one must be pushy or "preachy," but the point stands, and in my experience non-religious friends really do understand this fact, and may even begin raising the topic themselves.

* Or more generally, "If they were really my friend, they wouldn't share with me what they see to be of ultimate importance."

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This rather controls friendships in an oblique manner.

One pastor has said that you can determine the most important thing in your life by how willing and able and eager you are to talk about it. If, given the freedom to discuss what you want to discuss, what you would most often choose to discuss is what is most important to you.

If for Christians that's Jesus (and it should be Jesus), then Christians would tend to be drawn to people with whom they can freely talk about Jesus.

David Hine7 said:

What do NASA know about anything?? They simply squint through slightly bigger telescopes than you, but stll get the maths wrong, confusing distance by saying "distance and / or speed is time only". Prats. So you bow humbly down low and worship NASA prats

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And lo, the mask has come off! The true face of arrogance that you think you know more than scientists is laid clear and simple for all to see.

In order to persue the truth you have to be willing to be offended. It was not that Jesus or the disiciples went around offending people. It was that the truth they told offended some as a matter of it being told. It was simply Good News.

Jesus said to the disciples when he sent them out that if a town did not welcome them to move on. They were not open to the message.

I think there is a cultural phenomena happening as well more generally that Christians are immersed in. The social context has been different throughout time. I think today we live in a postmodern era where everything is questioned and there is no truth. Facts are rationalised and experience is the new reality.

A fundemental aspect of postmodernist thinking is words and meanings and narratives create the reality. Personal truths are the reality. So a word or a certain narrative can represent offense or even a threat because it represents attacking someones reality.

That is why certain words or books or language has been banned or cancelled or deplatformed. You can't say certain words or you must say certain words ie pronouns. Almost like language police. So of course say the wrong thing will cause offense.

We also see the proactive use of words as a means to push a narrative. By repeating the words and narratives over and over. Which of course offends the other side. Each side coming up with new words to demean the other. Almost as though everyone is morally outraged.

In some ways its the exact opposite of the age old saying "sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never harm me". Except now names harm people. They are more sensitive to the words and language spoken.

I think this is a culture wide phenomena and not just Christian. Though I think Christian values and biblical truths are becoming one of the trigger narratives today. Just proclaiming biblical truths can be an offense to some.

Dan1988 said:

Please refrain from playing word games, as it is childish.

No, No, No, faith does not proceed grace. Grace proceeds faith as I have already proven but you keep rejecting what Gods has said consistently in order to give your religious denomination validity.

I have also proven that faith is a gift which God only gives to His elect, so that's another blow to your religion.

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You proved it where? Please do quote the post where you proved that.

Jipsah said:

Right where your doctrine puts it. You simply change what you perceive the words must mean if your doctrine

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I’m not the one espousing controversial doctrine, you are.

SabbathBlessings said:

Exactly because they are keeping God's law, not rebelling Rom8:7-8

The law does not void the law, it established it Rom3:31 Why Jesus will say why do you call Me, Lord a Lord and do what I say Luke6:46.

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Jesus fulfilled (completed) ALL of the law. If He did not then we are still in our sins and His sacrifice was for nothing.

FaithT said:

Anybody know?

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In our K-6 Catholic school I've found there is quite a bit of difference between individual teachers, even at the same school.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Maybe you should send your calculations to NASA instead of responding with trite quotes from other people. See what they say on the matter. That would prove any one else wrong and you right for sure.

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What do NASA know about anything?? They simply squint through slightly bigger telescopes than you, but stll get the maths wrong, confusing distance by saying "distance and / or speed is time only". Prats. So you bow humbly down low and worship NASA prats

Apple Sky said:

The Ice walls are much further in & why don't they fly over Antarctica ?

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aerocorner.com

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There you go. You can book a flight any time.

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Outside Amundsen-Scott Station, you’ll have plenty of time for photographs at the Ceremonial Pole, surrounded by the flags of the Antarctic Treaty signatory nations. A journey to the South Pole is a significant achievement for any world traveler and you’ll feel the power of this special place. Antarctic Logistics & Expeditions is proud to be the premier provider for South Pole flights.

bbbbbbb said:

While this is absolutely true, it has also served as a root of division and heresy, as it still does.

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Improper use doesn't discredit having value when used appropriately. And sticking to more literalist hermeneutics certainly hasn't done much to prevent division, how many factions have spawned from the notion that the Scriptures are perspicuous?

bbbbbbb said:

This reminds me of a friend who related to me a very long sermon he heard which consisted entirely of an exposition of the hidden meanings of the underwear worn by the Old Testament priests.

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Well, you're likely being silly, but in reality I do have a book on the high priestly garments. The underwear, however, is not featured prominently.

You might be amazed at how God's mind operates and reveals things to those who desperately want an intimate relationship with Him. There are, I think, hidden things in the Scriptures that "kings" find out.

Proverbs 25.2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

Maureen Gaglardi, a late minister and teacher of the Gospel, wrote a series "The Path of the Just" on the Tabernacle and on the High Priestly Garments. In those books she calculated arrangements and measurements and equated them to periods of time in the history of the Church. It is truly quite amazing how she did this.

Of course, these things are not predictive prophecies, but confirmation of what God has done with careful anticipation and programming.

Does anyone have any input on how the pursuit of unprovable factual truths has helped you grow your faith? The reason I ask is I do have an intense curiosity about what really happened. What did the life of Adam and Eve really look like. But the more I try to focus on that curiosity, I end up with more questions than answers and I don't end up any closer to God.

Fervent said:

The Jews had a multifaceted hermeneutic similar to the fourfold approach. For them, the levels were the peshat, remez, darash, and sod. Greeks also understood holy texts to have multiple facets of meaning as well, so allegorical readings would very much have been on the table.

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While this is absolutely true, it has also served as a root of division and heresy, as it still does.

camille70 said:

I saw a diary on dkos that mentioned the dimensions dont add up.

The “Ballroom”dimensions don’t add up

From a post on Facebook by Andrew Kerr, a licensed architect with 20+ years experience, who has worked on several Federal projects. 1. With a projected size of 90,000 sf and a budget of $300M, the cost per square foot would be $3,333. No building costs...

www.dailykos.com

Supposedly though they are also doing work on the bunkers below and building guest suites.


There has been little public information released about the layout or design of the addition, which would be the largest ever, with a planned size almost double the footprint of the 55,000-square-foot main section of the White House. . . .

The East Wing will be replaced by the ballroom, offices for the first lady and her staff, and new “guest suites” for the “President’s White House Guests,” according to a project description on the résumé of lead architect James McCrery II. The White House would not confirm whether the new guest suites and offices were included in the 90,000-square foot estimate.

Loading…

wapo.st

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Dude is building a party pad and flop house. It's like when a guy likes to party but hates how big his tab is, so he opens a restaurant and bar with the hopes the paying guests will offset the open bar he leaves for his friends who like to drop the phrase "I know the owner" to get the VIP treatment.

SabbathBlessings said:

Its faith we enter into His rest, which He gives us from our disobedience and sin if we have not hardened our hearts.

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That’s the thing those in Christ enter into His rest by faith BECAUSE they don’t have a hardened heart. So, yes, you have it backwards.

SabbathBlessings said:

It’s not backwards. If our heart is harden to sin unbelief and rebellion, we do not hear His voice calling us. Heb3:7-19 Heb4:7 What the passage is about.

By faith we obey Him, not disobey. Luke6:46

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Exactly. By faith we enter Christ rest since the Sabbath is of the law and the law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12).

If you choose to be a Biblical literalist and insist that the only way to understand Genesis is as literal history, that's fine. But that's based on faith, not on what evidence we have available. The issue comes when you try to defend your position as a scientific hypothesis when it isn't and push pseudoscience and misinformation, it's an article of faith that not all believers subscribe to not a scientific hypothesis.

bling said:

There is the huge “Saving Faith” of: “Faith that Jesus is the Christ”, but there are other lesser “faiths”, “believes” and “trusts”.

We can trust the chair we are sitting in to hold us up or the pilot of the plane we are in.

People can have a faith/trust/believe in a stone “god”, so there is a lesser instinctive type of faith that humans have the free will to control and direct.

Trust/faith/believe that Jesus is the Messiah requires a gift from God (not instinctive), so, what allows or causes us to obtain such a gift?

This gets us into a lengthy exploration of Spiritual transactions, because things like Godly type Love, Forgiveness of sin, atonement and redemption are not just one-sided but require actions from both parties.

God is doing His part perfectly, so He Loves, forgives and provides redemption for everyone, but people continue to refuse God’s Love, forgiveness and redemption as pure undeserved charity to the point they will never of their own free will accept God’s Love and forgiveness, so they go to hell, since they would not be happy in a place of only Godly type Love.

It takes very little “faith/trust/believe” to overcome your false pride and accept God’s Love, to humbly accept pure undeserved charity as charity, when you desperately (selfishly) need charity, takes very little faith, but people naturally do not like to humble themselves to the point of accepting sacrificial charity.

Look again at the Prodigal Son story, what did the son do to be rewarded by his father?

Did the son believe his father and older brother would celebrate his return?

Was the son selfishly desiring something he totally did not deserve?

How great was the son’s faith in the father compared to his fear of starving to death in the pigsty?

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Thanks for your thoughts, but I still do not see any interaction with the argument of the OP. This thread concerns a grammatical point about 1 John 5:1.

You describe a "lesser faith" versus "saving faith," but can you show from the grammar or context of 1 John 5:1 that it supports such a distinction?

My point concerns the present participle ὁ πιστεύων and the perfect γεγέννηται. The one who is presently believing has already been born of God. That's what the grammar of the text says. Do you object to this?

David Hine7 said:

"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true the other is to refuse to believe what is true." Søren Kierkegaara

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Maybe you should send your calculations to NASA instead of responding with trite quotes from other people. See what they say on the matter. That would prove any one else wrong and you right for sure.