Guojing said:

Yes, under the gospel of the kingdom, when God resumes his dealings with Israel, as I said, works and faith are both required, you are cut off if you fail to do the necessary works to show your faith, regardless of your nationality.

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yes many will wait to do those things, and few are saved, as declared already by the gospel to all the world.

Clare73 said:

Do false prophets have true saving faith?

They do not, or they would not be false.

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False prophets gather thorns and thistles, no good fruit, (no faith.) are thorns and thistles worth talking about.

We shall know them, not as a declaration of faith, not as lacking true saving faith, but as empty=no faith. ( even as you clare73 also conclude.)


A heart that is of unbelief is evil, if anyone doubts they are damned, as what is not of faith is sin


Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.



If you do not want to interact, and stick only on your own points, that's fine clare 3, I will point out the facts anyway.

Surely clare73's point of view of false prophets making a declaration of faith, and also of not having true saving faith, should be hinted at or even spoken about again, by the apostles of the Lord, talking about these SAME FALSE PROPHETS, don't we think, but when we look at the other texts, there is no such consideration at all.

Matthew 3 even points out the first declaration, of the axe laid at the ROOT OF THE TREES, and EVERY TREE that does not bring FORTH GOOD FRUIT, is cut down and CAST INTO THE FIRE.

Jude EXHORTS for us to EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED UTO THE SAINTS, GIVING ALL DILIGENCE to write unto us of the COMMON SALVATION.

The warning is of course about the certain men crept in UNAWARES, this is these MANY FALSE PROPHETS, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF GOD INTO LASCIVIOUSNESS, AND DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. ( NOT TOO MUCH OF A DECLARATION OF FAITH HEARD HERE, NOR OF THE LACKING TRUE SAVING FAITH, but DENIAL IS WHAT IS WITNESSED INSTEAD BY THE LORDS HOLY APOSTLES.)

The false prophets, FEAST WITH YOU, they are SPOTS, in your feast of CHARITY, they FEED THEMSELVES WITHOUT FEAR, they are clouds WITHOUT WATER, trees whose FRUIT WHITHERS, WITHOUT FRUIT, TWICE DEAD, PLUCKED UP BY THE ROOTS. (the axe laid at the ROOT OF THE TREES, and EVERY TREE that does not bring FORTH GOOD FRUIT, is cut down and CAST INTO THE FIRE.)

These same FALSE PROPHETS only FOAM OUT THEIR OWN SHAME, they wander alone, the blackness of darkness is reserved unto them for ever. ( ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION.)



Matthew 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.



Again back on the chapter 7 of Matthew, of our KNOWING THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. ( their GATHERING OF THORNS AND THISTLES.)

Now we can turn to Luke 6, and Jesus spoke the parable of the BLIND (THESE FALSE PROPHETS) LEADING the blind.

To be saved, as is the thread topic, is to BE PERFECT AS THE DISCIPLES MASTER IS PERFECT.

To do that is to not be as those false prophet HYPOCRITES, who DO NOT PERCEIVE THE BEAM THAT IS IN THEIR EYE. ( THEY ARE THE BLIND LEADERS OF THE BLIND.)

Jesus tells us what these TREES ARE, how EVERY TREE IS KNOWN BY HIS OWN FRUIT, how the FALSE PROPHETS are CORRUPT, AND BRING FORTH CORRUPT FRUIT. ( THEY GATHER THORNS AND BRAMBLES.)

AN EVIL MAN OUT OF THE EVIL TREASURE OF HIS HEART BRINGS FORTH THAT WHICH IS EVIL. (OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART, HIS MOUTH SPEAKS.)



Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.




God tells Israel to NOT HEAR THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS, they make you VAIN, they do not speak OUT OF THE MOUTH OF THE LORD, but from THEIR OWN HEART. (AN EVIL MAN OUT OF THE EVIL TREASURE OF HIS HEART BRINGS FORTH THAT WHICH IS EVIL./OUT OF THE ABUNDANCE OF THE HEART, HIS MOUTH SPEAKS.)

They speak flattery to them, for walking after the evil imaginations of their own heart. WHO HAS STOOD IN THE COUNSEL OF THE LORD, PERCEIVED AND HEARD HIS WORD ?

God did not send those prophets, God had not spoken to them, yet they spoke. BUT IF THEY HAD STOOD IN HIS COUNSEL, AND CAUSED THE LORDS PEOOPLE TO HEAR HIS WORD, THEY SHOULD HAVE TURNED THEM FROM THEIR EVIL WAY, AND FROM THE EVIL OF THEIR DOINGS.




Jeremiah 23:16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

Jeremiah 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.



ONE DECLARES, HE DELIGHTS TO DO YOUR WILL, O HIS GOD.

The Lord declares the heaven is His throne, and the earth His footstool, all those things His hands have made, but He looks to the man that is poor and of a contrite spirit, that TREMBLES AT HIS WORD. (they FEED THEMSELVES WITHOUT FEAR. Jude 1:12.)

God declares THEY HAVE CHOSEN THEIR OWN WAYS, their soul DELIGHTS IN THEIR ABOMINATIONS.

God declares, HE ALSO WILL CHOOSE THEIR DELUSIONS, and will BRING THEIR FEARS UPON THEM, because when He called none of them answered, when God spoke they did not hear, but they did EVIL BEFORE HIS EYES, and CHOSE THAT WHICH THE LORD DID NOT DELIGHT IN.

God speaks to those who TREMBLE AT HIS WORD, to HEAR HIS WORD, of their brothers that hated them, that cast them out for HIS NAMES SAKE, said let the Lord be glorified, but God shall APPEAR TO YOUR JOY, AND THEY SHALL BE ASHAMED. ( For the scripture says, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.)

Jesus always did the things that pleased the Father.




Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.




This is all that mystery of iniquity. A false prophet speaks an abundance of both evil and vanity, and does not confess faith, but denies all the testimony of faith.

Look at Psalm 6, how all workers of iniquity are told by the Spirit, to depart from Him, as the Lord heard the Sons weeping and supplication, HIs prayer received. (THIS IS THE PRAYER: LET ALL HIS ENEMIES BE ASHAMED, LET THEM RETURN AND BE ASHAMED SUDDENLY. Romans 9:32. Psalms 6:8-10.)

Matthew 7:23, again, is EXACTLY THIS TESTIMONY, as what's written, and not ADDING WORDS AND PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS.

Looking at Luke 13, we are testified by Christ ( OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.) to STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIGHT GATE, for many seek to enter in and SHALL NOT BE ABLE. The MASTER IS RISEN UP, (FROM THE DEAD.) and the door is SHUT, and they ( all the workers of iniquity with NO FAITH.) STAND WITHOUT, and knock saying, LORD, LORD, open to us, He answers and says, I do not know you, where you are from. Then they begin to say He has taught in their streets, but He shall say, He does not know where they are from, DEPART FROM HIM, ALL YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY. (THEIR SHALL BE WEEING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, SEEING ABRAHAM AND ISAAC AND JACOB, AND ALL THE PROPHETS, in the kingdom of God, and they THRUST OUT.



Psalm 6:8 Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the Lord hath heard the voice of my weeping.
9 The Lord hath heard my supplication; the Lord will receive my prayer.
10 Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.

Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.



That is the mystery of iniquity, the wicked revealed, consumed by the Lords Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Even that one working after satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders. ( in the false prophets)

All deceiving of unrighteousness, in them that PERISH, they did not receive the LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved.

For that cause, God sends them strong delusion, (God declares, HE ALSO WILL CHOOSE THEIR DELUSIONS, and will BRING THEIR FEARS UPON THEM, because when He called none of them answered, when God spoke they did not hear, but they did EVIL BEFORE HIS EYES, and CHOSE THAT WHICH THE LORD DID NOT DELIGHT IN.) that they SHOUD BELIEVE A LIE, ( THEY BEIEVE IN A LIE-no FAITH IN A DECLARARTION AND NOT ANY FAITH/NOTHING OF LACKING A TRUE STANDING ONE.)

Chosen to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH, called He called you by OUR GOSPEL.

THEREFORE STAND FAST BROTHERS AND GHOLD THE TRADITIINS YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT, by word and Epistle, and our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who loved us, through GRACE, comfort your hearts and ESTABLISH YOU IN EVERY GOOD WORD AND WORK.




2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

All Souls Novena Day 9 (11/1/25)

O God, the Creater and Redeemer of all the faithful, grant to the souls of Thy servants and handmaids departed, the remission of all their sins; that through pious supplications they may obtain the pardon they have always desired. Who livest and reignest with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, world without end. Amen.

sjastro said:

And you wonder why people question your intellectual capacity and/or honesty by now claiming there is no evidence of traditional methods.

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There you go again. Personal remarks. You have to add a little jibe in each time. You can't help yourself. And its silly really when people do this because they set themselves up to be judged by the same criteria. In fact it makes them look like the person they are belittling.

This evidence you cite is not from the predyanstics. I said no method of a device to make precision vases and not some 40cm saw or later bore stick tech that came in the 18th dynasty when tech had developed in softer material. Still there is absolutely no bore sticks or potters wheels from the predynastics where these vases originate from.

So you have basically created a strawman and then beat me around the head with it lol.

sjastro said:

Exhibit A: A copper saw fragment from the 3rd dynasty by which stage the ancient Egyptians were supposedly using the equivalent of electric powered circular saws.

View attachment 372462
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Exhibit B: The remnants of a copper tube drill and corundum abrasive in a drilled piece of limestone from the 18th dynasty.
Even though it is from the 18th dynasty, the Egyptians from this period used pounders and bronze chisels to produce much larger and more detailed granite obelisks than their Old Kingdom counterparts possessing the equivalent of electric powered circular saws, angle grinders etc.
(Please cease and desist with the idiotic theory the 18th dynasty obelisks are forgeries and were produced in the Old Kingdom).

View attachment 372463​

Exhibit C: The plaster cast of Khufu's 4th dynasty granite sarcophagus as described in post@1008 which you conveniently ignored.

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Sorry I may have missed some. I tended not to respond to your posts as much as for your personal jibes. Wasn't much fun being belittled all the time.

sjastro said:

Let me repeat if the striations were produced by a circular saw the pattern would be circular and the kerf or groove width constant.
Instead there are straight parallel grooves and a variable kerf indicating a saw with abrasives were used where the variable kerf was caused by crushing of the abrasive probably sand against the granite during the sawing process.

View attachment 372464​

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Ok so now we are getting into the strirations. Now you have opened up a can of worms.

First I must point out that we have not found massive saws that can cut 10 or 20 foot cuts. So you are doing exactly what I have been doing and getting flack for it. Which is looking at signatures as the way to tell the method without there being any evidence of such a method found.

According to the logic of yourself and others even if the signatures look like you think they look like (giant saw). Its all irrelevant because there is no such tech or tool found 10 or 20 foot saw). As stated to me that because I cannot show evidence of the lathe or method for machining that my arguement has no legs. Until we find the lathe or method its all whacko lol. Thats the logic. So this logic applies to you as well.

But more importantly if we are going to go down this path then you will have some explaining to do for other patterns in stone that look like circular saw or some planer or router that could cut in arcs and curves and even around bends. Impossible for a hand held giant saw which can cut in one go and not restart and leave a different pattern.

Exibit number 1.

The strirations on the basalt stone pavers at Giza show a curve or arc in the striarations across the top of this example. We can see its arc by the thin lip it left on the right edge where it stops. Which by the way is thinner than the thickness of a giant copper saw at 5mm plus. THis edge is around 2 or 3 mm. Plus the wobble from a hand saw would make the cut move all over the place and not leave such a sharp and thin edge.



Exhibit number 2.

The famous pink granite slab at Abu Rawash. It clearly shows a circular cut which is seen in the arc where the cutting stops. Like a giant circular saw. Almost seems like a thin layer was shaved off the top. Once again the thin edge at the lip is thinner than any massive copper saw. No straight edge giant handsaw could cut an arc like that.

Not only that the entire slab is cut with a concave bow in it. Its actually cut with a curve going inwards. Both curves impossible to create with a massive stright cut hand saw.

Also notice in the second image what looks like a planer or router or maybe same sort of circular saw edge has dug in deeper here and there and left a sharp step. Just as a planer does when its pushed hard against the surface that it digs in and and then comes back out. This cannot be caused by a hand saw.






Exhibit 2.

Rock faces around the same site as the basalt pavers at Giza that looks like something shaved off a thin layer and once again a very thin super straight edge, thinner than any massive hand saw. Some of these are at least 20 feet long and appears cut in one continious cut without a reset.

Not only that it appears the cut is going into the surface and along the top and leaving an edge. Rather than from the side and cutting in a thin layer. Besides what sort of handsaw could be that long and bend with the contour.

Just like some machine that can follow a surface dips and bends.



Ah why not. One more. This is a good one.

Exhibit 4

A black diorite slab at Abu Sir.

This has several machine marks. Another obvious arc cut that sems to have dug into the surface and left a pretty big step like the pink granite slab at Abu Rawash.

But the most interesting witness mark is what looks like actual router marks. Or like a machine cutter snicked or dug in on the edge of the slab. Certainly not from a copper hand held saw or pounding and rubbing.

This looks like an accident or a test run on the side of a slab. The step in the top surface has the same signature as these router or maybe circular saw dipping into the edge that goes right across the top in an arc.



Not all these cuts are curved or arced. But they still look like machining. They still have very uniform strirations and thin sharp edges.

Cutting with a copper saw I think is not actually cutting but abrasing and the crystals are not doing any deep cutting but grinding. They are not fixed and don't just fall into place and make uniform deep cuts. They are all over the place and often don't go deep or just crush into powder and abrase. Which leaves grounded out cuts that are wider and mostly smooth with no strirations or patchy nicks here and there.

Nevertheless the main problem is hand saws are too thick to shave off thin layers and leave a edge thinner than the saw itself. Or cut around bends and move with the contour of the surface like a machine cutter of some sort.

PS I have linked some of these images earlier and the sources are with them if you care to find them.

The Liturgist said:

I’m specifically not, not with what I have now. Some things are too important to sell.

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Wishing you well there, including your illness!

The Liturgist said:

You mean typographer?

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Ha! How did THAT one sneak by? Yes, although a distant former interest of mine back in my treasure hunting days.

The Liturgist said:

", , only the most commercially successful designers who are able to become partners at, or owners of, reputable design firms with large corporate clients, companies like Landor, Wolff Olins, Interbrand, Wolff-Olins, Mercer and so on,

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Now when you refer to these "design firms", are these typeface foundries within some of these firms? I was under the impression the ones that tap into today's talent were all independent?

The Liturgist said:

I don’t like handling small metal objects, and the work is difficult and intensive, but I have always enjoyed computer-based typography, which when I was doing it in the early 90s was in its infancy

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Oh-okay, you and I were churning at the type wheel about the same time. I was in reproduction for nationally-know outdoor advertising. By the early nineties, I could hand-build a high-90% pure Helvetica any size and was already known for excelling a full decade earlier. Absolutely loved correct interrelational percentages.

The Liturgist said:

"Among the subset of graphics designers who specialize in typography, either in desigining books and publications or in designing typefaces or both, these are a very nice group of people, they don’t make a lot of money, but they do beautiful work. , , we used (and still use) a lovely suite of macros called LaTeX which generate Adobe PostScript and PDF files that produce beautiful printed documents by default

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Again, as a CD-release Adobe customer of the past in AI/AP (Adobe Illustrator/Photoshop), I'm not exactly sure those subscription accounts would have remained true. Back when they chose to pull the rug out from our 171 typefaces to "end of support for an old, deprecated font format (PostScript Type 1) in favor of the more modern OpenType format."

Really? I happen to have a near 20yr old example of that 'depreciation' I would like to re-title with something a little more accurate from a couple of home labels I made. The beautiful 'favor' wreaked havoc on the character of one of my favorites shown here, ,

Apple Sky said:

View attachment 372484

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I think the correct response is, "sorry, I don't know what I am talking about".

Servus said:

In most cases if the question is "do you believe __________ is real?", it isn't.

Also when you get a witch to summon Samuel from the dead, it's not him.

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"Do you believe such and such is real?" is merely a question. No different that teens asking each other "Do you think so-and-so likes me?" or "Do you think it will rain?"

Right or wrong, I got the impression that the witch of Endor was scared when she saw Samuel or what she thought was Samuel, and that what was happening was not the usual way of things. It's just an impression, nothing more. Have wondered if maybe, in that instance, something happened that had not happened before. If that was the case, if it was Samuel, it wasn't what she usually encountered, and that says much.

Re-reading 1 Samuel 28, someone could make the argument that the woman feared when she realized that the man who wanted to talk to Samuel was Saul. Maybe. Just wanted to point that out.

Either way, God said not to do such or to delve into such things. That's the bottom line.

Do I think there are ghosts or spirits? That depends both on what is meant by ghosts and what is meant by spirits. Does our soul continue after death? We are told it does. Does it hang around various places? Maybe not so much. Neither Lazarus or the Rich Man were hanging around earthly places and the Rich Man asked for Lazarus to go back to warn his kin. It's implied that the Rich Man couldn't, and Abraham refused the request.

prodromos said:

Scripture doesn't call it a mirror. You are adding to God’s Word.

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No I'm not, I state no verse, read my post again.

prodromos said:

Where are the words "looking glass" in Scripture? You are treading on dangerous ground adding your own words to Scripture.

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Job 37:18 — King James Version (KJV 1900)​

18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky,
Which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

David Lamb said:

So Job 37:18 is no use fro proving that the bible teaches a solid firmament

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If the Democrats really, truly care about the midterms, then they need to vote to open back up the government now, and not let their hatred/disdain for the Republicans or Donald Trump get in the way of their decision making on this right now currently, because it's going to start backfiring on them now soon politically.

So, if they want to try and maintain or keep the upper hand/advantage politically, keeping in mind the upcoming midterms maybe, then they need to now give into the Republicans right now about the government shutdown politically, because it's at a tipping point now politically, and trying to keep it/this up, will not only hurt a lot of Americans, but won't be to their political advantage anymore now politically.

IOW's, continued posturing right now is only going to hurt them politically. But I very, very much encourage them (the Democrats) to come out with some public statements about this though when they do politically, etc. And why they would have preferred to continue resisting and whatnot politically, and some statements as to why they gave in or felt they had to give in ultimately, and what the consequences will be for the American people for their giving in ultimately, etc.

And that the Republicans are the ones putting this strain on the American people, and are forcing the Democrats to give in ultimately, because it is always the Democrats that seem to care a lot more about the suffering of most American people than the Republicans ever do both classically and generally, and who are always seen as much more "weak" because of this politically, etc. And that you are thinking that if the positions were reversed, that it wouldn't hurt any of the Republicans one bit at all to just continue to dig in their heels about this, even though it would mean a lot more suffering, etc.

Or those would be some of my statements that are "something to that effect" that I think the Democrats should make/state publicly before giving into the Republicans on this maybe, etc.

And we're sick and tired of being seen as "weak" because of this really, and that it's not a weakness to care about human suffering, or to want to ease the suffering and hardships of the American people generally, which was why we wanted to insist on the increased spending, and, again, what the consequences will be both for us and for the rest of the American people for our giving into this ultimately, etc. And that it gives the perception that "the Dems will always cave ultimately", which is not at all what we are trying to project here ultimately.

Or "something to that effect" maybe.

God Bless.

Tigran1245 said:

There are many places in Scripture that clearly state that the gift (grace of priesthood) was imparted through the laying on of hands.

“Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery” (1Tim 4:14)

“For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands” (2Tim 1:6)

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Why mention priesthood? Paul and Timothy were not priests, except in the sense that Peter says all Christians are priests:

“But you [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;” (1Pe 2:9 NKJV)

1 Timothy 4:14 mentions the spiritual gift that was in Timothy, but not mention of him being a priest.

Apple Sky said:

Yes - It does, what else could be strong as a mirror made out of beaten down metal ?

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Scripture doesn't call it a mirror. You are adding to God’s Word.

Valletta said:

It's hardly a shame to clarify legal issues. Trump asked his attorneys to talk with the courts to find out how to legally get SNAP funds out to those in need as quickly as possible. A friend pitched in to pay the military. The Democrat actions can potentially hurt a lot of Americans.

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Why do you guys even still have a congress when you can just tap trump's friends for funding of everything?

David Lamb said:

We don't read anywhere in the bible that hands were laid on Paul to impart the power of apostleship. I repeat, the laying on of hands was part of the church a Antioch obeying the Holy Spirit and setting Paul and Barnabas apart as missionaries.

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There are many places in Scripture that clearly state that the gift (grace of priesthood) was imparted through the laying on of hands.

“Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery” (1Tim 4:14)

“For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands” (2Tim 1:6)

Apple Sky said:

What is a Molton looking glass - it's a mirror made out of beaten down metal.

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Where are the words "looking glass" in Scripture? You are treading on dangerous ground adding your own words to Scripture.

keras said:

I agree.
This truth does not preclude offerings and sacrifices being made for other reasons.

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Why would we need to?

keras said:

Daniel 9:27 & 11:31, Revelation 13:6 all say there are sacrifices being made in the Temple and the 'beast' stops them.

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Revelation 13:6 does not even mention sacrifices.
And none of the verses say that sacrifices, which ended with the destruction of the temple, will restart in 2030/35/40 just so that they can be stopped again.

Philip_B said:

I am not sure if that was yes or no.

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Please note that this is a quote from an Israeli hostage relating to her specific experiences of being held captive. The ones I have named are included.

In the end times, Israel will occupy a special position in the world. Zechariah 12 predicts that with the coming of the Messiah, all nations will gather together to wage war against Jerusalem and G-d's people. This may have been difficult to comprehend in the past, but today we can see that the world may be moving in this direction.

Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your G-d. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: Isa 40:1-2a

Christians are called not only to observe what G-d is doing with Israel, but also to actively comfort and support the Jewish people.

Strong in Him said:

Jesus' death was the once and for all time sacrifice for sin.

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I agree.
This truth does not preclude offerings and sacrifices being made for other reasons.

Strong in Him said:

The devil/beast is far more likely to to start animal sacrifices again than to stop them

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Daniel 9:27 & 11:31, Revelation 13:6 all say there are sacrifices being made in the Temple and the 'beast' stops them.
Your contention is a direct refutation of scripture.

Strong in Him said:

Most of those are differences in church practice.

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Nonsense; there are huge differences in beliefs, doctrines and practices.
The wise and learned cannot agree on much. even the Cross is argued about. Matthew 11:25

People who choose to believe in false theories, are deceived and deluded. Thay are made incapable of seeing the truths of Bible Prophecy.

Exodus 12:46 "It must be eaten inside one house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones.
John 19:36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"

If one of the Lamb's bones breaks, the Lamb's bones can not support the entire congregation. If a religious organization seems to have no bones, then it is not attached to the bones of the Lamb, just a lump of dead meat. (My personal comment)

Apple Sky said:

Yes - It does, what else could be strong as a mirror made out of beaten down metal ?

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I will try again. If you look at Job 37:18, you will see it is about the sky. It is not about the firmament. You said earlier in this thread that the sky is not the firmament. So Job 37:18 is no use fro proving that the bible teaches a solid firmament. The verse DOES NO MENTION the firmament.

Studyman said:

Great Study, Great Topic.

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Yes it was! Thank you for your input. As time allows I will look more at what you shared.
Thanks be to God for His grace and mercy!

BobRyan said:

So then there are zero OT specifically predicting the birth, time, life , ministry and death of BobRyan,

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Right, But the BIBLE is OUR BASIC INSTRUCTION BEFORE LEAVING EARTH. The Law, His Word through His Spirit through Christ is part of us, who we are.

BobRyan said:

Since you are posting this under "Sabbath and the Law" do you mean that Ps 40:8 "should be" our own statement as born-again saint having the "Spirit of Christ IN me"?

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I don't mean anything. It is written.

Apple Sky said:

Yes - It does, what else could be strong as a mirror made out of beaten down metal ?

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That's not what you were being asked - and I think you know that.

You have, several times, been asked to show where Scripture teaches that the firmament is solid.
You can't.
The reason why you can't quote a verse showing that the firmament is solid is because there isn't one. The only verse you've been able to quote is one from Job which says that the sky is AS molten glass.
The firmament and the sky and different things. I can even quote the post where you said that, just in case you've forgotten.

I think you know this. But you're focusing on details like the meaning of the word "molten" and sodium whatever it is - because that might divert our attention from the fact that you've contradicted yourself, again.

The fact still remains - no Scripture to say that the firmament is solid.