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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

I haven't noticed any riot's at the protests in Oregon . And if ICE was doing their job right way, like they did during other presidents. Then ICE wouldn't be having a problems. They kicked people, that are legal out of their apartments in the middle of the zip tie them for hours. And then let them go free. Because they weren't illegal. They have detaining legal people. They beat one American man at his job. He plans on suing.
I've seen it. You know they had to board up the windows of the facility there do to attacks against it. Yes they have been violent toward agents there. I don't think there have been deadly attacks, thank goodness.

In order to get the 9th circuit to overrule rhe previous court and allow the guard rhe administration had to prove the case of violence etc. And they did. So, what you've seen isn't accurate.
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What genre is Job?

As I implied in my post, nobody.

So if nobody was present, who started the "stories"? If they are merely made-up stories, like "Goldilocks and the Three Bears," why did Jesus Christ refer to them as absolute truth? No, like the rest of the bible, the accounts of Creation, of the temptation of Jesus, etc., were written by men but inspired by God Himself:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,” (2Ti 3:16 NKJV)
Do you agree that even stories like Goldilocks and the three bears have timeless lessons and truths that are beneficial to humanity? My point is that regarding Job as a fictional story does not dismiss it's importance or divine inspiration. Meaning that we can both glean timeless biblical truths that are profitable, but also understand that it is a fictional story written in poem. Particularly, in layman's terms, Job is a story that says, "God is not a God who would treat people like pawns and cause unnecessary suffering for bragging rights. But if He was, and you removed any promise of reward or fear of punishment, would you worship Him for no other reason than because He is God and you are not?" Of course, as we see in the story, God's respons was a sarcastic display of His might that rendered Job thoroughly humbled. Yet God never gave Job the answers demanded of Him.

Also, I would like to note that most historical narrative begins with confirmable details. For example:

Daniel 1:1 NIV
[1] In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

Luke 1:5 NIV
[5] In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.

Yet Job is much more vague. It is like saying, "A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, there was a man named Job."
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About Jesus being the only way?

Without being present when every man/person and everything is judged, we don't get to learn about God's true justice, or how God knows/judges/discerns true good from true evil, and that is the one and only reason for it really, it's all for us and not at all for him, etc, and it is not at all to be feared for the real christian. I'm sorry that you all fear it so much/bad, etc. It's one of the only ways that God can teach us true good, from true bad, I'm sorry you all fear it so bad. It's a part of our education that needs to happen before we can enter heaven, etc.

Even if you yourself are not judged because of Jesus, you still need to be there and be present when everything and everyone else is, etc. This is why I say that when all of us die, we will all arrive, and we will all be standing together at the judgement, but just as a vital part of our education before we can enter heaven, etc. That will be the only reason it's even taking place, or is even happening that way. It's not at all for God, but is only for us, etc. And it's not at all to be feared for the believer, etc.

Or are you going to disagree with the Bible now?

2 Corinthians 5:10- "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

The only difference for the believer, is that he/she receives mercy for the bad.

God Bless.

And here are some more Bible verses for you, in case you want some additional reading.

1 Corinthians 4:5

Luke 12:2

Hebrews 4:13

This will be the purpose of the judgement, and for standing before the judgement, is so we can all know true good and bad, or the (hidden) secrets of all hearts (including our own) before entering heaven, etc.

It's not for God, but is for us (God doesn't need to know what he already knows, or already has full knowledge of already, and already has since time began, etc) but it is for us, so we will all finally know the very, very difficult and very confusing subject of both good and bad, etc. That we already tried to know on our own fully, but proved to be an utter disaster for us, and ultimately destroyed us really, etc.

God Bless.
-

The judgment seat of The Messiah, is a judgment for born again children of God only. This judgement is only for the giving out or the loss of rewards, for how a believer lived their life as a born again child of God.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
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Is President Trump Corrupt? Three Stories.

All three of these stories are nothing burgers. Qatar is not building a "base", just a military facility as other nations have done on U.S. soil. Besides, lots of people from other nations get training at U.S. Air Force bases.

Accepting the jet saved the American taxpayer $399 million dollars. Winning.

The Trump family company cut a deal with a Saudi company to build a golf course in Qatar. So what?
Yes, I said they are sharing a base, though I believe it is a first for a Middle East nation.
How much are they spending on the retrofit? Here is google ai's answer. I don't see that as winning.
  • "Official Air Force estimate: Air Force Secretary Troy Meink testified in June 2025 that the retrofit would "probably" cost less than $400 million. He added that this figure is misleading, as it does not account for many of the specialized, classified systems needed.
  • External and expert estimates: Other defense experts and officials say the costs will be much higher, likely in the hundreds of millions or even up to $1 billion. For context, an earlier project to build two new 747s for use as Air Force One had a contract price of $3.9 billion."

Sounds like a money pit to me that will not be utlized much except for the musuem. A better option would have been to place it in service for Veteran's honor flights.
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Another look at the moon landing.

David fully understand. But their influence is certainly noted with the one of their flags given to buzz Aldrin. And they even have allotted area Claimed by them on the moon. But yes their activities throughout history are vast. Their influence NASA just be one spectrum
Fair enough. But none of this means that all astronauts are Freemasons, as Apple Sky claimed.
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Another look at the moon landing.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I was referring to what you wrote: "And they have played a prominent role in shaping our histories for the past 400 yrs" when I said that it seemed beyond the scope of this thread, because the thread is about moon landings, which certainly have not been going on for 400 years. Apologies if I wasn't clear before.
David fully understand. But their influence is certainly noted with one of their flags given to buzz Aldrin. And they even have a allotted area Claimed by them on the moon. But yes their activities throughout history are vast. Their influence upon NASA just be one spectrum
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What genre is Job?

This is true, but the prelude and appendix separate it out from one of the main elements of wisdom literature, which is that wisdom literature's authorial perspective tends to be human-centered. The inclusion of material that no human being could have been witness to makes it distinct, and while much scholarship has been written claiming that these were later addendums they are crucial to the book having any sort of thematic unity or purpose which makes them being added later unlikely. But questions of literary genre are flexible, as a work can be considered to be a different genre depending on what body of literature we're trying to place it. For example, we might also simply classify Job as a theodicy since there are similar works known from the ANE.
I agree. I understand that many have come to believe that Job is historical and there are many reasons for it. But there is no doubt that it is almost a replica of the Babylonian Theodicy. Many regard it as the oldest book in the Bible. But I have come to believe that it is a story written much later. Presumably during Israel's exile. Combine that with the underlying theme of suffering, and how it was written in poem, it seems clear that it was very encouraging to so many Israelites who suffered under Babylonian rule. I also believe that regarding the book as historical raises more questions that are difficult to answer. For example, if God is so Holy that sin has has created a separation that only a perfect sacrifice can fill, how then is Satan able to meet with God and have a conversation? Much less how the conversation involve a wager that results in seemingly needless suffering of one considered to be righteous? I do understand that many scholars have regarded "the satan" as an opponent, but not The Opponent (Lucifer), but there are still looming questions that cannot reconcile such a wager with the omnibenevolence of God.
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Criminal Illegal Alien Who Offered $10,000 Bounties to Murder ICE Agents Arrested in Dallas, TX

This government isn’t being tyrannical towards people breaking the law here. It hasn’t sent its military and federal forces into foreign countries, they’re being deployed to American cities, to intimidate American citizens.
Are they? Is that the purpose? Or are they being deployed to protect the agents from a rebellious froup of people who are trying to prevent the agents from doing their Constitutionally supported jobs and using violence to do so? From what I've seen its needed. They could all stay home if the radical left would stop obstructing and acting violent.
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Criminal Illegal Alien Who Offered $10,000 Bounties to Murder ICE Agents Arrested in Dallas, TX

So how does one protect themselves against a tyrannical government?
In the context of this thread, it would not be deemed tyrannical for the governement to remove those who are here illegally. Immigration law and enforcement is a legitimate function of government and had been supported by the Supreme Court as Constitutional.

If you as an individual just decided to say its tyrannical then you would be incorrect.
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Criminal Illegal Alien Who Offered $10,000 Bounties to Murder ICE Agents Arrested in Dallas, TX

Isn’t that what the second amendment is for?
No. You think if the police come to your door to serve a warrant you can juat shoot them? Is that what its for?
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Another look at the moon landing.

David just because freemasonry began so long ago they are still with us until this very day are they not . So that influence is with us right up to the present day. How is that beyond the scope of the thread
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I was referring to what you wrote: "And they have played a prominent role in shaping our histories for the past 400 yrs" when I said that it seemed beyond the scope of this thread, because the thread is about moon landings, which certainly have not been going on for 400 years. Apologies if I wasn't clear before.
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Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

Because it was irrelevant. I was replying to someone who made the claim "Transgender people are given puberty blockers and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs in order to change their gender (their sex)" to point out that it's not the norm - or even especially common. The data that you cited supports my argument.
The statement seems to include other things you left out. The and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs seems it would include those ither stats.

But, whatever. I'm not going to push it. I mostly wanted to clarify that puberty blockers are not safe nor reversible and that they aren't the only methods used to transition even if they are smaller by comparison to others that are all paid by insurance. I wonder if the stat you quoted also include government medical coverage.
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Who then can be saved?

You can't even see, or ''live and move and have your being"' without God, and yet He doesn't ask you to acknowledge and believe in Him in order to have physical sight, or to live and move and have your being. In order to become righteous, however, you do, indeed,, have to participate and that's Christianity 101, from the beginning. It's never been understood any other way so you're not even fully engaged with the faith to begin with. Pray, study, ask, seek, and knock and you'll eventually be brought around to the full understanding of the truth
I have studied the entire bible and I've never found anything to support your view that "you do indeed have to participate".
Jesus never said "you have to do something", to earn salvation. He said it was a gift, so your view is not based on any Bible doctrine.

Christianity 101 is ---

Ephesians 1:4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

As you can see from the verses above, your "saved by works" version of the gospel, falls down like the tower of Babel, when you shine the light of Gods Word on it.

Salvation is not by works, it is the gift of God and it was settled before the world was made. So you couldn't be further from the truth.



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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

But what have been found here that points to ancient technology and lost knowledge?
Like GT they are show much more sophisticated knowledge and belief that attributed. There is still ongoing research and really this is just the tip of the iceberge as far as understanding their level of knowledge. But generally its acknowledged that this shows humans were much more organised and technically capable and had well developed social and cultural societies. Not too disssimilar to us.

More importantly altogether, all these sites plus all the sites aroynd the world show a prehistory world that had risen to a fairly high level of sophistication and then more or less disappeared in a fairly short time. Not all at once but certainly some cultures that peaked like the pre North & South American, Asians, Anatolians, Egyptian, ect. This seems to be the common thread. That megaliths show a pre history culture and the evidence is pushing this date back more and more.
Don't just say that it could have happened, show that it has happened.
I just did. If humans could built wooden shelters 480,000 years ago. Then the idea that they were hunter gatherer nomads and began building shelters as they settled. They lived in caves and first made simple shelters and gradually evolved to create more stronger and complex shelters as time progressed through the iron age some 4,000 years ago and into more moder tech.

Theres a 476,000 year gap between making wooden shelters and the iron age and beginning to make more advanced shelters. The brain was more or less the same. What did they do with their brain all that time. Surely if the same they would have progressed somehow. Stone seems the obvious. Maybe 400,000 years to play around with stones. Surely they must have come up with some good ideas lol.
Mega fauna? Humans lived through that.
Of course. It was only around 12,000 years ago. Theres different theories for the extenction of megafauna. Some say climate change and ice cap melts that flooded large areas. Some say humans hunted them out of extinction. Either way many humans would be affected in that there was not a lot of veegetation and then scarce game. Many would have uprooted and dispersed. Others just die out.
So let them excavate them.
They are and will in good time. Its amazing I think in some ways we are discovering more due to modern tech. What we thought was nothing is being revealed as more hidden discoveries. Even modern tech checking for Murons and electromagnetism in the pyramids and other sites. Or SARs finding hidden shafts and chambers.
References please, because the one find says the stones are from roman times.
Once again this is the orthodox view. The fact is there was a site there before the Romans built. The mega blocks are completely diferent signatures to the Roman work. If the Romans built this then why did they leave the others in the ground and why is there only three blocks on one side and the rest of the foundations have different smaller Roman blocks.

Romans never used such large blocks. The largest Roman crane could only lift 60 ton. These are 900 tons and had to be lifted into place. The Romans used drill lewis holes in the stones to be able to lift them. However, the Trilithon stones do not have any lewis holes. The Trilithon shows evidence of wind and sand erosion that is not seen in the Roman construction.

There is archeological evidence the site was occupied back to 9,000 BCE. You can see the different style and how old these mega blocks are compared to the later Roman work. There are strange scape marks on the Trilithon which match pther prehistory sites like Yangshan quarry in Japan.

The Romans detailed and documented everything they built and yet there is absolutely no record of them moving such mega blocks. This would be a massive achievement for the Romans. In fact the largest blocks ever moved by anyone. Yet not a word.

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Apart from Dr Kimura, most experts seems to think it's a natural formation.
Dr Kimura has done the most research and been down 150 times. He has found actual tool marks all over the monument. He has also found more sites and they connect.
Why would you try to much the waters with pictures from a different place?
Not sure what you mean by waters. The works shown from another site in Japan and Peru have similar signatures of the sharp platforms, steps ect. Which shows they were proficient in cutting such shapes.
What are you talking about here?
I see why you asked about the water. Yes I was showing examples on land of the same kind of signatures with sharp cuts and steps ect. The images are from Mount Nokogiri quarry in Japan. The same place as the underwater monument.

I asked a seperate question of what you thought cut the rocks in the Mount Nokogiri quarry. Were they small copper saws. Or did they pound them. How could they do this handing 200 feet above the ground.
You need to show that it has happened, not just say it could have happened. If you're using words like probably I would like to see the explicit reasoning preferably with numbers.
The article clearly states the spears are from 300 years ago.
Writing is the secret ingredient, together with professionalization is my guess for why things have happened the last 10000 years.
But the ancients has just a much a form of writing and communication as today. It was just in glyphs and symbols and signs and oral stories. We see very sophisticated paintings from 40,000 years ago. In fact research says around 50,000 years ago there was a technological and artistic and religious burst of expression all over the world.
Can you be more specific?
Most cultures speak of lost advanced knowledge. They say that the megalithes and other great works were made by people before them from the gods. Or made for the gods.
You are using empirical different than me then.
Thats kind of the point. That you can't use the science method to refute alternative knowledge like indigenous or ancient knowledge.
We have had interactions with indigenous people all the way into the 20th century, nowhere have they showed any fantastic abilities.
Because we were measuring their knowledge according to westernised science. They can't read or write, live primitively ect. But they had a deep knowledge of nature and spirituality that gave them knowledge beyond the science worldview.

What can we Learn about Nature Connection from Indigenous Australian Cultures?

Medicinal Secrets of the Amazon Rainforest
Modern medicine can certainly benefit from the vast knowledge of medicinal herbs and practices of Amazonian shamans.

Ancient Observatories-Timeless Knowledge

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Another look at the moon landing.

400 years goes way beyond NASA, which only came into being on 29 July 1958. The general influence of Freemasonry seems to me to be beyond the scope of this thread.
David just because freemasonry began so long ago they are still with us until this very day are they not . So that influence is with us right up to the present day. How is that beyond the scope of the thread
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Final enemy to overcome is Death

So, I’m a saint then.
If you know the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour, then yes you are, but it's entirely because of Him and His saving work on the cross, and certainly not because when you compare yourself to other people, you see yourself as not so evil as them.
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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

Do we still sin? Then be not deceived, the Law is for sinners. For by the Law is the knowledge of sin. The Righteous, the Just live out of Faith, This Faith establishes the Law. This Faith is a gift from God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. His Word, His Law is in our hearts and in our mouths through His Spirit that we do it.
Sin is knowledge of the law, sin is gone, law is gone, we are as without law, but under the law to Christ, this way...



Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.




1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Peter 4:1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
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Is President Trump Corrupt? Three Stories.

Is President Trump Corrupt? Take a look at these three stories.

Trump says Qatari jet could be ready for use as Air Force One in 6 months.

Experts are deeply skeptical

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/10/politics/qatar-jet-trump-air-force


Then, following that incredible story, an even more unprecedented development.

The Trump-approved Qatari base in Idaho should raise major security concerns



To sum up the first story, the Qatari jet to be used as AF1 is possibly worth $400 million, and is a personal gift to Trump. It will cost the taxpayers a billion dollars.

In the second story, Trump issues an “executive order” “Assuring the Security of the State of Qatar.” The order far exceeds Presidential power, it should require approval by the Senate as a major treaty. During the entire Israel/Hamas war, or Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, the leaders of Hamas were living in luxury in Qatar. Trump’s order puts Qatar “on par with our NATO allies.” Then came the incredible news that Qatar will be allowed to build, or take possession of, a military base in Idaho. Huh?


The USA, and the American people get nothing out of this, but it gets worse. “Back in April, a Trump-owned company struck a deal to open a vast golf resort in Qatar.”

The third story is from the Associated Press.


Trump company strikes Qatari golf resort deal in a sign it’s not holding back from foreign business

Updated 11:27 PM EDT, April 30, 2025

Trump company strikes Qatari golf resort deal in a sign it's not holding back from foreign business



To sum up, the Emir of Qatar has given Donald Trump a golf resort deal and then a jumbo jet. In return, Qatar gets a security status comparable to a NATO ally and even gets a military base in Idaho. Congress needs to say NO to all of the above. It is obvious that Donald Trump has sold out America to its foreign enemies.
All three of these stories are nothing burgers. Qatar is not building a "base", just a military facility as other nations have done on U.S. soil. Besides, lots of people from other nations get training at U.S. Air Force bases.

Accepting the jet saved the American taxpayer $399 million dollars. Winning.

The Trump family company cut a deal with a Saudi company to build a golf course in Qatar. So what?
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