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iluvatar5150 · Sep 12, 2025

I can't imagine this system being effective in anything larger than a PTA or smallish town council, because it completely discounts the complexity of modern society and government as well as the amount of expertise required to legislate effectively. We only kinda-sorta use random selection in jury trials where jurors have no agency beyond making a decision about what's presented to them. Going by the numbers in the OP, members of the executive council would have terms of 7 years, and members of the legislature would have terms of up to 10 years. How the heck do you manage that with a crew randomly selected from the population? Even getting people to serve on a jury is a struggle, and they typically only serve for a few days. These folks would, essentially, have to give up their careers, and quite possibly their homes, for a decade or longer.

FredVB · Sep 12, 2025

AV1611VET said:
Hopefully she will return.

If she does she should my post here with the response to her, may she then change her approach with those she disagrees with. It is not such a long time. I took a break from this forum site several years ago and was away a longer time than this.

FireDragon76 · Sep 12, 2025

Do a simple search on who paid for Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA. It was all billionaires, most of them ardent climate deniers, and dark money donors. Charlie Kirk wasn't some genius pushing his own ideas on campus, he was a political provocateur paid to prey on 20 year old college kids naivite, to produce a distracting spectacle and feel the algorithmic loop, monetized by some of the same network of people that are now friends and donors to the current White House. So of course, Trump is going to blame the Left. It's part of the kayfabe.

This is the truth about Charlie Kirk that nobody in the mainstream media is talking about. Because it doesn't feed the algorithmic loop, and doesn't fit into respectability politics of today. But it does show how hollowed out our cultural imagination has become.

Niels · Sep 12, 2025

I think this video is pertinent to the topic:

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Although I'm neither a therian nor a technophobe, I value things like imagination and reconnecting with nature. It's good to put down the screen and touch grass every now and then. What we're witnessing might be a reaction to an increasingly artificial world. A consequence rather than a cause.

o_mlly · Sep 12, 2025

public hermit said:
Beliefs that lead to right/wrong actions will clearly have a moral component. But what about beliefs regarding evolution or that the earth is flat/spherical?

Do we have a moral obligation to seek the truth? I'm not sure that we do. Is it wrong to believe what is false?

We would expect mathematicians and experimental scientists to be able to resolve whatever disagreements confront them. We would think that concluding those differences to be irresolvable as scandalous and intolerable. We also think that they are morally obligated to sustain their efforts to settle their disputes until they finally succeed in doing so.

However, if those scientists determine that the constraints imposed by the scientific method make resolution in there realm impossible then they must accept the conclusions offered by other realms of inquiry.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Sep 12, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
The boundaries of districts are a state responsibility. The only requirement is that more or less the same number of people is in each district. So there is no Federal government control of district boundaries. But do you think that would automagically fix anything?

Do I think we can fix any thing? No I do not.

We can’t even agree on what’s wrong with our politics, so how can we solve problems? The OP asked if conservatives should condemn the undemocratic map in Texas, but your response was California and Illinois do it too.

If we can't even admit what is wrong without blaming others, solutions will remain out of reach.

JosephZ · Sep 12, 2025

“I think with a high degree of certainty we have him in custody,” Trump said during an appearance on Fox News.

Trump said that someone “very close to him turned him in” and said that it would be announced later Friday.

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www.cnn.com

stevevw · Sep 12, 2025

Yarddog said:
Are you condemning Kirk or condemning those Kirk was condemning?

I am condemning (if you can call it that) as its more about truth and fact which is not necessarily a moral issue. But I am condeming the idea that speaking a truth or fact is itself condemining someone morally. That speaking truth and fact is hatred.

In that sense I am condemning those who make out Kirk is promoting hate when he is not. Not if speaking truth and fact is a fundemental part of any society in being able to stay sane and stable and not divide itself into ideological groupthink control of information and words and decend ourselves into chaos. As what seems to be happening now. .

For his few faults one thing is fact. Kirk was an advocate of free speech even that which conflicted with his beliefs and he never cancelled them. It seem they have cancelled him. But they won't his ideas and beliefs about the freedom and truth.

In fact in some ways Charlies own death has left a legacy that will live on in that this will make these freedoms and truths even more empowered.

iluvatar5150 · Sep 12, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa
Exclusive: critics accuse Ice of ‘outrageous’ and ‘unlawful’ detention of Korean man

At least one of the Korean workers swept up in a huge immigration raid on a Hyundai Motor factory site in Georgia last week was living and working legally in the US, according to an internal federal government document obtained by the Guardian.

Officials then “mandated” that he agree to be removed from the US despite not having violated his visa.

The document says that immigration agents from Atlanta “determined that [redacted] entered into the United States in [redacted], with a valid B1/B2 visa and [redacted] was employed at HL-GA Battery Company LLC as a contractor from the South Korean company SFA. From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.”

It is not yet clear whether other people with valid visas were detained in the raid, nor how many were actually alleged to be working illegally at the factory.

The raid angered the South Korean government, which announced billions of dollars of investment in the US following a new trade deal between the countries. On Sunday, the South Korean and US governments negotiated a deal to take the arrested workers home.

But but but the conservatives keep telling me that they're 100% a-ok with legal immigration.

Pioneer3mm · Sep 12, 2025

India
#11 (persecution rank)
- World Watch List
---
World Watch List
- Top 50 countries
- opendoorsus. org

Yarddog · Sep 12, 2025

stevevw said:
This makes me sad but angry that some will continue this ideological over reach even when obviously not the case. This is the same mentality that has led to an innocent man being killed and the rise in hatred and violence such as antisemetism.

KIrk spoke truths and was actually working to unify people and living a fundemental principle of academia in open discussion on issues and allowing different views.

I hope that this now leads to a full acknowledgement that this harmful ideological and politicised over reach has to stop. Or at least isolates this ideology as dangerous for all to see. A bit like how conflating Hamas terrorism as a legitimate right.

Isolate these radicals and their ideology for what they are, which is committing the very things they proclaim wrong and that others are doing when they are not. That their actions and thinking prove it is all evil. Not some false narrative that good is evil and truths are lies.But the reality this ideology produces which is hatred and division.

But I don't think so as the very nature of this is not rationality, facts or truth but ideological belief in how things should be in the world. A clash of worldviews thats seems to be coming down to a spiritual battle between truth and lies, Gods way or humans as gods of their own socially contructed world and building some human kingdom and utopia. Which inevitably brings chaos and evil.

Its now gone beyond the worldly idea that there can be many truths and all are welcome. Its now a battle of truth and it seems the ideology does not tolerate alternative beliefs and ideas even exterminating them. Totally contradicting even basic principles of freedoms.

Are you condemning Kirk or condemning those Kirk was condemning?

Stopped_lurking · Sep 12, 2025

stevevw said:
What I just linked is from the experts. Read the reports. Despite all the objections first look at the testing and then we can discuss their results as to whether they are valid. Thats the idea.

I have clearly linked quotes from those links throughout this thread that are clearly supporting the findings for advanced tech and knowledge in those vases based on the science and not personal opinion. They may be wrong who knows.

Name of the authors, article and the journal would be helpful.

7thKeeper · Sep 12, 2025

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There's a short 10 minute recap of what has happened so far. The guy is an American currently living in South Korea with a Korean wife and he goes over what has happened so far.

The flight of the Korean workers was delayed a day from what it was supposed to be. ICE apparently wanted all of them handcuffed while on the way to the plane. Trump also offered them to stay in the US and finish the factory (after all of this) and all but one person decided to leave back to Korea, with that one person apparently being a resident and having a family in the States.

So as far as I know at the moment, the construction of the factory is frozen since the workers required are no longer in the country and the future of other SK investments is now in question.

stevevw · Sep 12, 2025

Stopped_lurking said:
Are there any peer reviewed articles regarding these vases? It would be interesting to read what the experts say.

What I just linked is from the experts. Read the reports. Despite all the objections first look at the testing and then we can discuss their results as to whether they are valid. Thats the idea.

I have clearly linked quotes from those links throughout this thread that are clearly supporting the findings for advanced tech and knowledge in those vases based on the science and not personal opinion. They may be wrong who knows.

The problem is with this whole testing vases is that most are reluctant. Your lucky if you can get access to them. So its rare and theres not a lot out there at the moment. I have linked in the last few pages a fair few different sources from even before this whole thing blew up into some conspiracy. Which acknowledges the precision before rigorious tests done with the instruments that were available over 100 years or more.

Its not new and has been recognised for a long time. But now we have more sources such as private collections and now access to Petrie museum just recently. More people with funds who are willing to put them to the test. If all museums were willing and more scientific testing then great. Bring it on.

o_mlly · Sep 12, 2025

Job 33:6 said:
I would say that based on this post, your concern isn't with macro-evolution. Rather your concern is with common descent. ...

It's not an either or proposition. If there is no macro-evolution, as I hold, then there can be no common descent.

Job 33:6 said:
If you feel as though you have a better explanation for the evidence we see in terms of the fossil record or DNA phylogenies supporting common descent, (hopefully more than just "God did it") then you're welcome to offer that.

The truth on the question of diversity of life is singular.

Let say we played the game of "Clue". The truth is that "Mr. White" did the deed with His "Word", "Nowhere". But the deck we play with has no "Mr. White", no "Word" and no "Nowhere". That deck is stacked against the truth. It'll be a never ending game in which many trumped up charges, always false, will be made on the questions of who, where, and how.

Switching realms, in the religion of science, I'm getting an idea how a Galileo may have felt.

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Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa