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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

Well, it's kinda correct. Though more accurately, the US society as a whole doesn't care. Considering the amount of school shootings and dead children witnessed over the past quarter century with nothing done about the matter besides "thoughts and prayers" every single time, yeah, it's pretty obvious that dead children don't actually matter, at least enough that something be done about the matter.
No, it is purely the fault of the left by placing the children in the position of being vulnerable while it is the position of the right that they should be protected the way Congress persons and judges are protected. That just shows how little the left believes in safety for children.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

Obviously, from what happened yesterday, that’s the left’s belief on the subject.
I wasn't aware they caught the shooter.

But in the recent past, I've seen right-wingers try to assassinate Trump, attempted to overthrow the government, tried to kill Pence, Pelosi, as well as committing the four shootings in MN.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

What’s ridiculous is your suggestion that the right doesn’t care about children

Well, it's kinda correct. Though more accurately, the US society as a whole doesn't care. Considering the amount of school shootings and dead children witnessed over the past quarter century with nothing done about the matter besides "thoughts and prayers" every single time, yeah, it's pretty obvious that dead children don't actually matter, at least enough that something be done about the matter.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

Does that mean that the Coptic Church is not Christian, or those who agreed with Arius before 381 where not Christians?

The Copts and other Oriental Orthodox are Nicene Christians who agree with every doctrine I enumerated and which are one of two Oriental Orthodox churches to have a formal intercommunion agreement with their Eastern Orthodox counterpart. I don’t know what would make you think otherwise. I regard them as fully Orthodox and regularly attend their service.

As for Arians, no, they are not Christian - anyone in the Church of Alexandria who comitted to follow Arius after he was anathematized was rejecting the Incarnation and separating themselves from the faithful, and likewise anyone from anywhere else who embraced his doctrine after the Council of Nicaea anethematized Arius and Arianism in 325 AD is Arian and not Christian. Thus, J/Ws while not followers of Arius, are still not Christian since they agree with and promote his doctrine.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

Does that mean that the Coptic Church is not Christian
How does that follow?
or those who agreed with Arius before 381 where not Christians?
If they continued in their erroneous belief after the Church had made it clear it was heresy, yes.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

Charlie did NOT contribute to the toxicity. He was a counter to it. All you had to do is watch him discuss things with students and you saw how he brought clarity and truth to the conversations.

Some of Kirk's "clarity and truth":


"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

"Three weeks ago — if we would’ve said that Joy Reid, and Michelle Obama, and Sheila Jackson Lee, and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would’ve been called the racist. But now they’re coming out and they’re saying, ‘I’m only here because of affirmative action.’ Yeah. We know you do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.”
Charlie died because of the toxicity of people who would vilify this man and inflame the hatred for him and the things he stood for.
We can see in his own words what he stood for.
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Nine/Eleven

Nine Eleven

On September eleven
when it happened
while we watched
we could not help thinking about
our own thin brick walls
left standing around us
here, in the heartland.

Walled in between
panic and gratitude
we sat gaping,
not noticing
how our helpless tears
would not stop falling.

US students' reading and math scores at historic lows: 'Devastating trend'

That seems to be the trend. That said, in the ancient days when I was in college, there was a strong political divide between various departments. Go over to the English department, and it was decidedly liberal. Go over to the math and sciences, and it was decidedly conservative. In between it was a mix. My guess is that political leanings are doing to depend on the type of degree, and much of that more by association with various political viewpoint. Back then, there was very little outright indoctrination and maybe more that someone a student respected had this view point of that view point. Thus a survey about political leanings depends more of the degrees of those who were asked and who responded. "Who responded" is important because some in the more conservative fields wouldn't bother with a survey in the first place.
I thought the one I quoted was trying to use the link to tell the opposite story and couldn't get it straightened out in my head. To your second point, do we have any actual data if that effect would be larger for democrat or republican leaning respondents? Or across academic fields? If it is a general effect, it can be accounted for I guess.
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At least two students shot in active shooter situation at Evergreen High School

Evergreen CO is not a city and the high school is not "in our inner cities" so what are you on about?

View attachment 369824
Did that school work as a prison before getting the education gig?
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Heaven's pop songs?

Some saints have had visions of heaven. Saint John Bosco was one.

He claimed that he could not describe the music as it was so overpowering.


St. John Bosco:
“As I stood there basking in the splendor of those gardens, I suddenly heard music most sweet—so delightful and enchanting a melody that I could never adequately describe it…[T]he singers not only took the deepest pleasure in singing but also received vast joy in listening to the others…and this was their song: ‘Salvation, honor and glory to Almighty God and Father…the Creator who was, who is and who will come to judge the living and the dead forever and ever.’”

We need to bear in mind that the changing musical landscape of modern life is a flash in the pan compared to the time that has already elapsed, and possibly will elapse, and our musical fads aren't going to have much impact on God's music.

As CS Lewis wrote somewhere "If God wants music, He won't ask us for it" or words to that effect.

In heaven everything will be transcended, whether we're talking about music, natural beauty, "mansions" or charity.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

Would you extend the same attitude towards people on the right who do the same things?
The right doesn’t do things like that. The right doesn’t label their political opponents such hateful things as Nazis or racists or deplorables or garbage, the way the leftist leaders have done. The right doesn’t say people need to be taken out the way the left does. The right doesn’t tell their followers to follow around and harass the left and scream at them in public places the way the left does. The right doesn’t create fake hate hoaxes to lay blame on an entire political party the way the left does.

But I suppose, theoretically, sure. The same applies to the right.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

I've been watching the thread since it started yesterday. I keep trying to find the words to write, but they aren't flowing.

Two things:
  • Charlie didn't deserve to die.
  • Vengeance is God's alone.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink [untruth, false doctrine; Isaiah 28:5-13]: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

No he didn't. He said "some deaths". He never said "dead kids" in any of the interviews I've seen. If he did, then post the evidence, otherwise you should retract your vile assertion.
Was he not talking about school shootings in that discussion?
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

What’s ridiculous is your suggestion that the right doesn’t care about children when it’s the left’s stance to make them the most vulnerable targets in the world and then invite psychopaths in to shoot them by advertising that there will be nobody there to stop them when they show up.
There is no such stance.
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Charlie Kirk has Been Shot at Utah Valley University

Politicians, academics, and media influencers constantly bull-horning that conservatives or right-wingers "evil racists" and "nazis" and a "threat to our democracy" should be officially associated with terroristic activity. They are constantly signaling to their foot soldiers in the audience to act on this rhetoric.

They should all be rounded up by law-enforcement.
Speech is terrorism, got it.
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How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

I never said that, indeed I have maintained the opposite position, that the Church in compiling the Nicene Creed, the New Testament canon, and in preserving apostolic docfrines relies on the guidance of the Spirit. The teaching ministry of the Church is the means by which the Holy Spirit communicates, for the Spirit is able to speak through the hierarchy of the One Holy Catholic Church and Apostolic Church, however one defines it. This view is in full accord with the Nicene Creed.



False. Aside from the fact that all Orthodox churches agree on doctrine, additionally, all traditional liturgical churches (Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic, traditional Methodist, liturgical Calvinist, Congregationalist), which also represent most of the faithful, agree on most points of doctrine, including the Trinity, the Incarnation, Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the status of Mary as Theotokos, the use of Icons, certain points of soteriology and eschatology, and importantly, worship on all days of the week and not just the seventh day, for Christ said “pray without ceasing,” and for this reason we are in the process of reunification.

Additionally, all Christian churches, including yours, agree on some doctrine, such as the Nicene Creed and the contents of the New Testament. So a church that rejects the Trinity, the Incarnation, the canonicity of the 27 books of the New Testament, the Apostolate of St. Paul, and the Nicene Creed is not, according to the ecumenical consensus, Christian. Thus we do not count Unitarians, Swedenborgians, Mormons, J/Ws, Christian Science, Oneness Pentecostals or related heretics as being within the fold of the Christian Church, since they reject the doctrines associated with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church through the Nicene Creed (however one defines the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - the definition of Catholicity is disputed due to schism, and I have outlined before the different ways most Christians define it, yet you seem to insist that in all cases Catholic means the Roman Catholic Church headed by the Pope, which is ironically the same definition used by Roman Catholics, who ironically also conduct the most worship on Saturday.
Does that mean that the Coptic Church is not Christian, or those who agreed with Arius before 381 where not Christians?
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