ICE doesn't have riot police. Federal agents relying on local police to protect them seems like an undue burden being placed on localities, for federal missions.

Maybe the federal government needs to ensure the safety on their own federal agents? Thus the reason for the national guard?

Hoping2 said:

Savior from what ?

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All those of Adam are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), with the sin of Adam being imputed to them (Ro 5:17, 12-17), and which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) for the righteousness of Christ being imputed to those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, 3:21-22, 4:22-25, 2 Co 5:21).

Yarddog said:

The world doesn't want to judge him guilty like right wingers have. Let the Courts decide his guilt or innocence.

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THE COURTS HAVE ALREARY DECIDED THAT HE WAS GUILTY. THE ISSUE IS NOT THAT HE WAS NOT GUILTY, BUT THAT THE SENTENCE WAS NOT DECIDED! So let the wife beating gangster rot in whatever cell, in whatever country for all I care while this goes through the process.

Aristarkos said:

To believe that every time the word "mystery" is mentioned in Scripture, it's about the same thing, is like believing all these treasures are identical.

Aristarkos

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And Paul is the ONLY to speak about the DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA of the MYSTERY / MUSTERION

But when any speaks about the Greek word BAPTISM , there about 7 different kinds of BAPTISM !

And the same about the word GOSPEL / EUANGLION , as there several GOSPELS .

dan p

Ivan Hlavanda said:

Even infants need a Saviour.

Maybe the all go to Heaven, maybe not, Scripture does not say. Unless it has not been revealed yet

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Savior from what ?

Free2bHeretical4Him! said:

And your words are not … nuff said!

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Feel free to deal with Jas 3:6:

”The tongue is also a fire. It exists among our members as a world of malice, defiling the whole body and setting the entire course of our lives on fire, itself set on fire by Gehenna.“ (Jas 3:6)

It's a matter of grammar. . .

What is the subject of the sentence. . .back to which "itself" is referring?
"Itself" refers back to the subject "tongue". . .i.e., our tongue is a fire set by Gehenna.

SabbathBlessings said:

What God deems an abomination, never changes.

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Who made that rule?

Is the promised land still an abomination? (Jer 2:7)

SabbathBlessings said:

We have plenty of clean foods God gave us, why risk it, but we have free will.

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When did it become a "risk" to take Jesus at his word (Mt 15:11, Ac 10:14-15)?

Jesus (Mk 7:15) and Paul (Ro 14:14) both say that no food is unclean.

Why do you not believe them?

NanD said:

I agree we are not supposed to lie, but neither are we supposed to hurt others with our words.
So what happens if someone asks you something and telling the truth would hurt them, no matter how
kindly you tried to phrase it ?
Which would be the greater sin - tell the truth knowing it will hurt them, or lie to spare them that hurt ?

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They will thank you later, for the truth.
The devil is the father of lies, and Christians don't follow other fathers.

mindlight said:

The Trump-Musk Fight Could Have Huge Consequences for U.S. Space Programs

A vitriolic war of words between President Donald Trump and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk could have profound repercussions for the nation’s civil and military space programs

www.scientificamerican.com

It was probably inevitable that Narcissistic Alpha males on the level of the US president and the world's richest man were going to fall out at some point. To be honest I do not really care about Tesla or the American budget. But there is one area where this feud really matters.

I wonder if the fact that NASA funding for a Mars trip now depends on a Trump, determined to punish Musk, means that the Mars program will be set back a decade - this would effectively hand victory to China. I say this because the success of this program depends on the involvement of SpaceX which Trump is probably now going to boycott. NASAs own program is mired in bureaucracy and cost overruns and maybe now budget cuts and a lack of political will. Blue Origin and Boeing do not have the ambition, culture, or background for Mars right now but SpaceX does. Without SpaceX and Musk's involvement, this is probably not going to happen on Trump's watch.

If China gets to Mars first then they will rightfully be able to claim that they have not only surpassed the USA economically but also technologically. It is a message the whole world would read as the end of US hegemony.

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As Mars is already red, I say let the PRC have it !

Great written thought on theiology

Condition and Consequence: A Key to Correct Interpretation
April 1, 2007 by Bob Wilkin in Grace in Focus Articles

Pay Attention to Both Cs
While misinterpreting Scripture is always bad, the worst problems come when someone misunderstands what God says about what we must do to have everlasting life. If a person misunderstands what we might call the saving message, then he remains lost and is bound for eternal separation from God.


The biblical message is that once someone believes in Jesus, he is born again and justified forever. However, while everlasting life is irrevocable, one’s understanding of the saving message is not. It is sadly possible for a believer to change his understanding of the saving message and become confused either about the condition (faith alone in Jesus Christ) or the consequence (irrevocable life). Such a person does not lose eternal life; he just loses his understanding of how to get eternal life. This will, of course, negatively affect that person’s evangelism and discipleship efforts.


So in order to keep the saving message straight, it is helpful to know where such confusion comes from, and how to avoid it. Most of this kind of confusion about the saving message comes when people take a discipleship passage and think it is an evangelistic passage. This happens because the reader fails to carefully observe two things in a given context: what is the condition, stated or implied, and what is the consequence?


We must pay attention to both in order to understand what is being said in a given passage. But before these two Cs are considered, there is a cardinal rule of Bible study that must first be remembered.

Scripture Doesn’t Contradict Scripture: The Analogy of Faith
In order for condition and consequence to guide you to the correct interpretation, you must remember what is called the analogy of faith. This is the interpretive principle that Scripture never contradicts Scripture.


So, if one passage unequivocally establishes a truth, another passage cannot contradict it. This will often eliminate one or more possible interpretations of a particular text. If your understanding of one text contradicts your understanding of another, you have misunderstood one or both of the passages. One guideline of the analogy of faith is to let the simple texts shed light on the difficult texts.


For example, John 10:30 and 20:28, as well as host of other texts, clearly establish that Jesus is God. These are simple and straight-forward texts. Therefore, if some passage seems to imply that Jesus is not God, we know that such an interpretation of that text is wrong. Though we may not yet know what the passage in question does mean, progress is still made because we know what it cannot mean.


This is particularly helpful when it comes to looking at passages that deal with the saving message and determining the conditions and consequences in those passages.

Believing in Christ Is the Condition and Everlasting Life Is the Consequence
Christianity 101 starts with the saving message. Until a person grasps this simple truth, he is not born again and cannot progress in the Christian life. Thankfully, passages that contain the saving message are some of the clearest in Scripture.


Jesus said in John 6:47, “He who believes in Me [the condition] has everlasting life [the consequence].” When we believe that, we know we have life that can never be lost.


This basic truth can and should guide us in all condition and consequence passages. If a passage lists a different condition than faith alone in Christ alone, it isn’t an evangelistic text. If a passage lists a different consequence, then it isn’t dealing with the message of everlasting life.


Note that I’m not speaking of different wording that has the same meaning. For instance, the condition to be born again in John’s Gospel is stated by Jesus variously as “believing,” “drinking,” “eating,” “receiving,” and “coming.” And Jesus variously states the consequence as “everlasting life,” “shall never thirst,” “shall never hunger,” “shall not perish,” “shall never die,” “shall not come into judgment [or condemnation],” and “has passed from death into life.”


Furthermore, Paul spoke of “the promise of life” (2 Tim 1:1), “believing on [Jesus] for everlasting life” (1 Tim 1:16), being “made alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (Eph 2:5), “the washing of regeneration” (Titus 3:5), “the hope of eternal life” (Titus 3:7), and “having been justified by faith” (Rom 5:1), all of which are either synonymous or closely related concepts.1


In light of such straight-forward texts on the condition and consequence, if a text provides the condition of enduring in good works (2 Tim 2:12; Rev 2:26), then we know that text isn’t an evangelistic text! Similarly, if a text states that the consequence is reward in heaven, or ruling with Christ in the kingdom (e.g., Matt 6:19-21; 2 Tim 2:12), then it also is not an evangelistic text. It really is that simple.

Test Time: You Decide
Colossians 1:21-23. Paul says that if we hold fast to the faith, then we will be presented by Christ as holy, blameless, and beyond reproach. The consequence is a bit ambiguous for the neophyte interpreter. It could be a synonym for everlasting life. But this is a future and not a present presentation, whereas eternal life is a present possession (John 6:47).


The clincher is the condition. Holding fast to Christian teaching is not the same as believing in Jesus for eternal life. Thus, this passage is not an evangelistic text. It concerns the Judgment Seat of Christ, and eternal rewards. However, even if you don’t see that, you know the saving message isn’t on display here.


James 2:14. James says that faith without works will not save. For the novice who is unaware of how the NT word save is used, the consequence sounds like the same consequence as John 3:16-17. However, the condition is obviously not the same as in John 3:16-17. Indeed, James says that faith is insufficient for the salvation he is thinking of. He is stating the direct opposite of what Paul says in Eph 2:8-9.


Thus, whatever it means, Jas 2:14 isn’t talking about the free gift of eternal life. With further study of the five uses of the verb save in James (1:21; 2:14; 4:12; 5:15, 20), one discovers James is speaking of deliverance from the terrible deadly consequences of sin. When one sins by failing to do what he knows he should, he will not be delivered from the temporal consequences of that sin.


Luke 18:22. The condition Jesus gave the rich young ruler was to give away all of his riches! That isn’t the same as believing in Jesus. And the consequence wasn’t everlasting life. Instead, the promised consequence was treasure in heaven. This isn’t the message of John 3:16. For some reason Jesus told this unbeliever about eternal rewards truth. While it may take a new believer a few years before he discovers what this verse and passage actually means, he can know right away it isn’t teaching that we buy eternal life by giving away all we have.


Other Passages. Space doesn’t permit a discussion of texts like Matt 10:32-33, Matt 24:13, Gal 5:19-21, Heb 6:4-8, and a host of other passages. You can find explanations for all these passages and many more at our website: www.faithalone.org. Just click on “Search Website” and then put in the name of a passage. If we observe condition and consequence and then apply the analogy of faith, we can separate passages dealing with the saving message from ones dealing with something else.

It Really Is Simple
This condition and consequence idea is intuitively obvious. It is a simple principles of interpretation. And best of all, it helps keep the saving message straight.


The next time you hit a tough passage, ask yourself, “What is the condition and what is the consequence?” That will cause you to think carefully about the context. Then compare that condition and consequence with John 3:16. If both don’t match up, then you aren’t dealing with evangelism truth.

mindlight said:

If China gets to Mars first then they will rightfully be able to claim that they have not only surpassed the USA economically but also technologically. It is a message the whole world would read as the end of US hegemony.

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If China wants to pore it's resources on reaching Mars.....have at it. The US has more pressing prioirties IMO.

Tuur said:

Subject line says it all. Any suggestions for other Christian forums?

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Less ads !
You have to really zig and zag here, to post things.

timothyu said:

Has anyone considered that it has never been about us but about God's Will finally being done? Jesus' Gospel after all was of the Kingdom, His will be done in earth

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2 Cor 5:14-20

JulieB67 said:

Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch."

It's discussing what will happen to the wicked when that "day cometh" It's not talking about the physical death.

Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Hasn't happened yet so no, not talking about the physical death.




What verses? Christ describes the very same thing about that certain "day that's coming"

Matthew 13:40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world




Key point being "come to repentance" That's a change of heart and mind. A new way of thinking. What you are believing is that someone is wiped completely clean and new. And than that would the make the idea of "repentance" null and void, if the prior self is gone.


Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

I can't help it if you don't believe death is not really death but a second chance at life. Christ doesn't state that so I'll take his word over your's certainly.



Hmm, according to your own beliefs you believe he fails at times. Because if he can't get the job done, all God has to do is throw someone into the LOF and remove their prior self and make a new one. Because that's basically what you've stated in the past -wiping everything from that person. Programing him to love God. And therefore throwing repentance out the window. Someone can't repent or think differently if they're a brand new person. They wouldn't have anything to repent of at that point. And it also makes light of God's long suffering wanting people to come to repentance.

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If death is the end as you seem to think, when our body dies do we get a new one according to scripture? Yes so is death really death if you get a renewed body? Thats the first death.
If the first death results in a resurrection for all, as scripture says, then why do you think the second death is any different, can't God restore again?
I am sorry I haver not made my position clear, because you are mistaking what I have said.
I believe that when God says he is not willing that any perish I believe what he said, my God is so powerful that not even man can undo his plans that he has willed. John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world. That is a declaration not a possibility. I believe Jesus is the savior of the world not a potentiel savior.
Acts 3:21 In Jesus Christ is the restoration of all things. Why do you not believe these things?
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord,
Scripture says God will restore all things, bring all to restoration and reconciliation, because of what Jesus did on the cross. Matt 7 tells us not many find life in this age, so the only way for these scriptures to be true is if God is seeing this whole creation process as still ongoing, most will not come to reconciliation until the next age.
If your eyes are only on this age and do not understand that God is using the ages to get his will done, remember the" Gods will none should perish", we know what the end will look like 1 Cor 15:28" God will be all in all " that what this whole thing is working towards.
If " Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord " then those who go into the LOF must repent or get reconciliation in that place.
Now scripture says that the LOF is the second death, death of the soul. I believe the soul to be what we have made of or in our lives while in the mortal body, We a spirit, that is the us of who we are, our soul has to be something we have free will over, otherwise why would Jesus tell us to die to self and live for him, if we want to keep our soul we must lose it, we lose it by dying to self and living for Jesus not for ourselves.
Scripture never says we lose our spirit, but we can lose our soul. God throughout the scriptures is called a refining fire, that's the LOF .
The only reason anyone goes to the LOF is because they were not reconciled to God while in the mortal body, so they need refining or the dross removed or like in Matt 25:46 kolsais aionios, the pruning away or loping off of that which does not produce fruit, once the dross is gone all will see Jesus as he is and then they will all bend the knee and confess Jesus is Lord.
We are programed to love God from the start we do not need new programing, I do not know where you got that idea. We are not fully human as God created us to be till we are in fellowship with him, that is what we were created for, and God will bring this about, that's his plan, I do not understand why so many people do not think that God could get his will done, or that his will is to lose most of his creation, If God doesn't get what he wants and wills then he is not God but a god, not the creator of everything.
This is why scripture says God is long suffering, this is a process now going on 6000 years.

johansen said:

i've become skeptical of any verbal test of spirits.

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Me too, In my experience, evil spirits seem capable of every lie including pretending to believe the tenets of Christianity.

I think St. John's passage is possibly pointing to a group of people and not literally spirits but people who may be influenced by an unGodly spirit.

essentialsaltes said:

Your original complaint was about the speed with which asylum claims were processed. Border agents do not adjudicate asylum claims.


An additional 4,300 asylum officers would have been able to process claims faster and more efficiently. But as you note, that bipartisan bill was not passed. Due primarily to the interference of Trump.

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It created a catch 22 of lacking border security to begin with so we would need more bureaucracy to handle greater influx. I remember problems with it and “bipartisan” rejection of HR 2: “Secure the border act” which was what the Trump coalition wanted instead.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Yes, back to the people are devils position. I'm still waiting for the disclosure of the cult that teaches such things btw.

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You had better reread my post.
I never said people are devils.
Sinners are the children of the devil, according to 1 John 3:10.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

And perhaps you can point me to a single scripture that says children of the devil get saved? Just to save time, there are none.

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Your citing would be an untruth, and is not written anywhere in God's word.
But doesn't the OP's doctrine say it is so ?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

There is no scripture nor is there a single named person as an example who made themselves sinless by any actions of mind or body. Again, what cult is teaching these positions?

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Here are three, from Romans 6...
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Well of course you claim yourself better than your devil's children neighbors. Who are you kidding?

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Though I have never said it in those words, I agree with the notion.
How can a liar, or thief be "better" than a child of God ?
The whole idea, though, requires a more distinct definition of "better".

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Yes, we have untold millions of Jews who were complete failures, but that changed in the N.T? Unlikely. We're still sinners, regardless.

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Yes, it did change, as we can now crucify the old man/self, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life !
We can now be reborn of God's seed, and become new creatures.
Before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, no man could walk in, and after, the Spirit all the time.
It was all made possible by water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

What most still utterly fail to do is to simply tell the truth about it.

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Sinners have no compunction about admitting they are sinners.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

That's what being in Spirit and Truth is. The Spirit loves all our neighbors. The TRUTH is that we're all sinners.

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I agree with your characterization of the word Spirit, but your definition of truth is too general.
Jesus said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
Admitting one is a sinner is only profitable if it is followed by a real, true, repentance from sin.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

That's pretty funny, really. Yes, honesty is not a virtue with phony religious positions.

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Take that saying to heart.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I've really had my fill of our exchanges. We've pretty well wrenched out some crucial a critical positional differences. I'm really astounded that any positions can think they legitimately land where your presentations are.

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Anyone sorry for hurting himself and others wants a way out of that life.
That kind of sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation.
But acknowledgement of one's sin without that "turn", is only the world's sorrow, and worketh death.
Just as 2 Cor 7:10 says..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The last thing I'd expect from those positions is anyone who actually loves their neighbors as themselves, yet simultaneously claiming to be legally obedient. It's actually quite funny

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They are the same thing !
"Lovers" don't sin, and "sinners" don't love !
Sadly, the OP's doctrine makes no difference between the two.

catzrfluffy said:

Can an evil spirit or demon ever acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, or confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, can they ever say that?

1 John 4:1-3 "1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God."

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Based on experience, I think evil spirits could.

However there maybe people who will not acknowledge Christ has come in the flesh so maybe John is talking about some people when he mentioned "spirits".

DaisyDay said:

I believe it was this part of your post that triggered the remark: "Sure, there are men in the upper 10% (or smaller) who are highly desirable to 80% of women,..."

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I regret someone was triggered by a documented statistical fact.

DaisyDay said:

No, I am well aware of this.

I believe it was this part of your post that triggered the remark: "Sure, there are men in the upper 10% (or smaller) who are highly desirable to 80% of women,..."

Good luck in your search - I hope you find a good, compatible woman who will cherish you in return.

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You must have missed post #150

DaisyDay said:

Good luck in your search - I hope you find a good, compatible woman who will cherish you in return.

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See my post #150.

Hans Blaster said:

I don't know. I am not a scholar of protest or civil disobedience in the US. Measuring the effectiveness of protests is difficult.

There is one case I know of where a law was intentionally violated to challenge the law in court: the 1925 violation of the Tennessee anti-evolution law by John Scopes at the behest of the ACLU.

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It was the primary mode of operation in the late 50s and into the early 60s.

Ever hear of the Freedom Riders? If not, Google...it's a dramatic tale of some incredibly courageous young people.