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stevevw · 2025-10-17T05:03:48-0500

sjastro said:
Now that we have gone back to images of cuts in rocks here is a statue of Bahubali one of the largest free standing monolithic statues carved from granite and completed around 980 AD.

View attachment 371693

(The fig leaf is a modern day construction not to upset conservative Christian sensitivities).

I'm more impressed that they managed to cultivate such a plant with the perfect foil lol. They could have at least done it in stone to keep in line with the statue.

How do you know that even in 980AD that this culture had knowledge in their own way besides pounding and rubbing for years to achieve what they did.

Though big and impressive it pales into insignificance at some of the early Egyption feats. The pyramids dwaft this status for one and its not just one piece of work by 100s together as part of that one works.

That ain't granite but composite quartzite which is far harder to work with than granite. Its a stone calvers nightmare in stone shaping. The statue itself is 1,000 tons. But the block it comes from would have been around 1500 tons. They had to transport this up river some 500 miles from the quarry. We have problems moving 100 ton loads with heavy lifters and trucks.

sjastro said:
Now lets look at the technological development of iron and when it became hard enough to cut through or shape granite without the use of abrasives.

Period Material/Technology Hardness (Mohs) Could cut granite w/out abrasives? Notes
< 1200 BCE Bronze 3–4 ❌ Used abrasives (sand + copper saws)
1200–600 BCE Wrought iron 4 ❌ Slightly tougher, still too soft
600–400 BCE Early carburized steel 5–6 ⚠️ Limited Could peck, not slice granite
18th century Crucible steel 7–8 ✅ First reliable granite chisels
20th century Tungsten carbide / Diamond 9–10 ✅✅ Industrial stonecutting era

Using the 'logic' employed in this thread based on the fallacies of argument of personal incredulity and argument from ignorance,

Do you have to add such personalised rhetoric lol. Just state the facts. This is a sure sign that someone is more invested than just the science and facts itself without even determining whether the facts are correct or not.

sjastro said:
even though the carvers of the statue had access to iron tools, the tools were not hard enough to cut directly or shape granite, the technology only became available in the 18th century with the development of crucible steel which is carbon hardened.

Therefore your logic is even though the signatures clearly look like modern signatures they somehow hand crafted these signatures without any tech at all.

We are talking on par if not superior shaping and cutting of the most hard stones 5,000 plus years ago. Some in composit quartzite.

Not just that we can cut all the crap of these being made by pounding, grinding and rubbing by once again the signatures on the works like statues and other works such as the image of obeliskes with circular saw overcuts in the works themselves as part of creating them. In this case clear circular saw or some sort of saw capable of cutting the entire base of this statue into its thight and overcutting what is one of the hardest stones.

Like the vases we see the superior work of the earliest Egyptians compared to later works such as this precise leg and knee of a statue of pharoah Khufu compared to a later statue from Ramses II.

The Ramses statue does look like it was hand chiseled and roughly made. Theres little fine detail, quite a rough and unpolished finished.

sjastro said:
So therefore they must have used some unknown super technology like the predynastic Egyptians, in fact every cut mark in granite, a granite block or statue that was produced before the advent of crucible steel in the 18th century must have been produced using this super technology which then disappeared without a trace.

Most of the precision works and I mean precision and have actual modern looking signatures in them are from the earliest dynasties or predynasty. There are some works that are amazing that come later but there is still question over their origin just like the vases. They may also date back to the earliest times.

Nevertheless this is not denying that there may have been some knowledge that was preserved in some limited way within later dynasties. But the vase majority and the best examples come from the earliest times. Which at the vesy least is coming from a time that is suppose to have less tech compared to later cultures who had the wheel, even sophisticated wheels and laths, logistics, and various metals and developed tooling.

sjastro said:
An obvious question which arises why did this super technology disappear only to be replaced by a major backwards step in technology in using crucible steel?!!

Because the westernised idea of knowledge and tech being a slow and gradual evolution from simple to complex or simple to better techniques through the accumulation of knowledge is a forced idea about what knowledge is.

The whole point of this thread is that knowledge and tech may have peaked and fallen many times and was lost and restarted in different ways. That ancient cultures peaked in their own kind of knowledge different from today and then collapsed for various reasons. If there was a massive catastrophy that wiped out most of humankind today.

In 5 or 10,000 years we could say some of that knowledge was lost and we had to start again to gradually build up to a level of knowledge which may be different to how knowledge was understood in the past.

This may happen in smaller examples where localised knowledge peaks and falls and peaks and falls in different ways. Sometimes some still having that knowledge while others did not. Its a continually peaking and falling phenomena and not this fixed westernised materialistic and scientific idea of simple to complex.

sjastro said:
Here are the facts abrasive cutting went well into the 19th century using a sand and water slurry like the ancient Egyptians had used in combination with copper saws thousands of year earlier.

Except the signatures are completely different. Copper saw of copper tude and sand abrasions don't cut. They abrase and thus a usually not sharp and thin or leave sharp planes in cuts like electric planers and routers.

This is the orthodoxy that is being challenged by the tests and the out of place signatures that clearly do not have the same witness marks as copper and abrasions.

sjastro said:
Works such as the statue of Bahubali are a testament to craftmanship not technology.

Therefore there was no lathe, or wheel which produces good circularity. No one is saying there was no pounding and rubbing. Especially rubbing and polishing. They are the final stages. We are talking about the cutting and shaping of the hardest stones. I mean some of these cuts would need to be 50 foot long and 12 feel wide. Thats a massive copper saw.

Good old pounding and rubbing can explain even impossible feats that are well recognised that can only be achieved by tech. In some ways your doing what you protest the whackos. By appealing to such unreality as though humans can rub precision tools into existence without any help from tech.

Strong in Him · 2025-10-17T05:02:28-0500

RainySunflower said:
So you want my small 5 cents - mind your own business. Date settling is between Him and God.

But it affects others.
Christians believe the date setters; give away money, sell houses and maybe pronounce judgement on those who mock or don't believe.
Then the date in question passes and people write Christianity off that little bit more - just another reason why they can't believe.

Today is Friday Oct 17th.

Strong in Him · 2025-10-17T04:57:03-0500

Apple Sky said:
We can take a guess can't we ?

Guessing, or surmising, is not wrong.
Using it to further some wacky conspiracy theory, is.

Apple Sky said:
Tell me why is the tribe of Dan not mentioned in Revelation 7:5 ?

No idea.
Why is the tribe of Manasseh mentioned when Jacob gave his brother, Ephraim, the greater blessing? Genesis 48:13-20
Ephraim and Manasseh were Jacob's grandsons, not his sons.

Jacob DID bless his son Dan, he said that he would provide justice for his people, Genesis 49:16. Why have you not addressed this?

Chris V++ · 2025-10-17T04:55:13-0500

David Lamb · 2025-10-17T04:46:56-0500

Tigran1245 said:
Are you Nestorian?

No, I believe firmly in the so-called hypostatic union, not the two natures only loosely united that Nestorians believe.

Hazelelponi · 2025-10-17T04:44:27-0500

iluvatar5150 said:
If his visa expired 10 years ago, how did he get work authorization using his real name?

Simply put, he didn't.

It means the people who are doing the hiring in these locations are not looking for work authorization. In short, the hiring managers and higher ups don't care and are intentionally hiring illegals without work authorization.

Usually though, people get a job when they have valid work authorization and then stay in the position after their work authorization ends because employers aren't looking for updates, for example work authorization ends 6 months after getting the job, and the job doesn't check to see if the authorisation has been extended for the individual and a new work authorization given.

It's the employers legal responsibility to make sure a person is legally authorized to work, for the entire time an individual is working. Employers are not doing follow up, because they know when an individuals authorization ends when they hire that person as performimg a reverification on or before the expiration date is their legal responsibility.

So basically, everyone from police departments to school districts in blue states are breaking the law to employ illegals - knowingly.

HIM · 2025-10-17T04:42:19-0500

The Liturgist said:
There literally is. I am aware of no language where Messiah, Christ or Annointed are written with out an i. For instance, Christos, Cristo, Moshiach… Indeed his first name Jesus*, in Hebrew Joshua and in Aramaic, Yeshua, means “I AM saves” referring to the meaning of YHWH

*Also often spelled with an I; indeed in antiquity there was no letter J. Thus Iesous in Greek, Isha and Isho in the Eastern and Western dialects of Classical Syriac Aramaic, and Isa in Arabic, and in Latin before the invention of the letters U and J, IESVS.

Sorry you missed the point of that or felt the need to post your post. Take care

eclipsenow · 2025-10-17T04:39:23-0500

Servus said:
Vote left to save the planet.

MAGA are the ones that abandoned science and therefore this whole conversation.

You made the Democrats the default for those who respect... reality.

Our ABC shows Trump scoffing at climate science for humour!

Apple Sky · 2025-10-17T04:38:00-0500

Back on track -

Here you can quite clearly see a guy in the background manipulating the space ship.

Login to view embedded media

David Lamb · 2025-10-17T04:36:58-0500

jonojim1337 said:
I’m not perfect, but compared to how vile some people are, who profess themselves to be normal, have a job etc… I have no problem calling myself a saint.

And I wouldn’t know what to do here, and what the purpose of it all is, since they have the upper hand on all levels of society, unless I’m here to witness their demise. Like Jesus said, I’m going to down to see if their actions are as wicked as I have heard.

But how you compare with other sinners is not the biblical basis for being a saint, being a Christian. It is whether or not you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you are saved, it should be your aim to live more and more like the Lord Jesus Christ, but even then, I would say it is wrong t compare yourself to other sinners, saying things like, "I'm not as vile as other people."

RainySunflower · 2025-10-17T04:27:38-0500

+1 on Joshua is reaching millions argument.

Christians in my country don't even know about Jesus's second coming, they don't even know what The Rapture is, and they don't even know what The End Times is. And I am not exaggerating .

At least some of them googled some stuff after Joshua's adventure.

So you want my small 5 cents - mind your own business. Date settling is between Him and God.

Neogaia777 · 2025-10-17T04:22:28-0500

Bad people sleep without being aware of it and they are also reset without being aware of it and are brought back up into existing for a temporary time again when their program/person is needed again in other fallen worlds/planets/realities, and they cannot ever change that ever in any kind of world/planet/temporary existence/reality, which is why it is also said to always be happening or going on eternally, but is not so for those being cultivated/harvested always from there for heaven from those always, which is also eternally, as new people are always added/harvested from those for heaven always and continually always, but it's just not so for or with everybody always.

The ones getting to go to heaven always need to be afflicted first before they ever can always, which is why these kinds of places exist always, and is also why some people were needed that always just primarily do the afflcting always, but who never are meant for heaven ever always, but are reset and brought back up again without any remembrance or memory in other places that still need them to do some of the afflicting always, but who have no other kind of existence other than that forever always.

Everyone and everything's fates are already always known/decided for everybody and everything already from before any individual one of these (fallen) places are ever started or are ever made always, and none can ever change any of it/that or anything in these kinds of lower places always, but might only get any kind of true autonomy only in heaven maybe. etc.

God Bless.

rocknanchor · 2025-10-17T04:21:26-0500

Richard T said:
I like this minister/teacher. It is a dispensational view, with a pre-tribulation rapture. I admit that I have not read this book, but I have listened to the 20 or so lessons from this teacher (former pastor) on the end times. He also is one of the few who have written a book on simplified theology from a Pentecostal view. I believe his views mirror the Assembly of God in most things and particularly the end times. Here is the free google preview.

Understanding the End Times

A Last Days Play-by-Play for the ChristianCountless books have been written that link current events to end-time scriptures predicting the soon return of Jesus. But too often Christians have devalued the Bible message by predicting an Antichrist who dies, or by predicting dates that come and go...

www.google.com.ph

Very nice tip Richard, top-shelf! I'll be securing one! Hoping he offers a little more than others who, ''cautioned against obsessing over news headlines'', yet, advises us to correctly "look up" when they see the prophetic signs of the end times'', one critical and heavy watch? That old, rather amusing fine-line.

Larniavc · 2025-10-17T04:11:20-0500

rjs330 said:
In America it’s a certain group who is predominantly involved in that percapita.

You can’t really get more granular than the nationality of a people. They share a common culture, education, health benefits; they all grow up with the American dream.

Jerry N. · 2025-10-17T04:06:21-0500

Leaf473 said:
I asked duckassist the question, if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset

Here's its answer-
In Barrow, Alaska, where the sun does not set for extended periods during summer, it is suggested to observe the Sabbath from sunset to sunset based on the traditional understanding, but adjustments may be necessary due to the unique daylight conditions. Many people in such regions may choose to follow a local time schedule or consult religious authorities for guidance on how to observe the Sabbath appropriately.

if you live in Barrow Alaska, should you keep the Sabbath from sunset to sunset? at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Not a single scripture is quoted. That makes sense, though. I'm not aware of any scripture that says what to do.

God's ways aren't our ways, his thoughts aren't our thoughts

Among Messianic Christians I have known in northern latitudes, they either keep the Sabbath from 6:00pm to 6:00pm or the times of sunset in Israel. Catholics often begin The Lord’s Day sometime between 5:00pm and 7:00pm on Saturday. I don’t agree with the Roman Catholics, but they believe that they are keeping the commandment, and it is commendable.

Larniavc · 2025-10-17T04:03:24-0500

rjs330 said:
In America its a certain group who is predominantly involved in that percapita.

Poor people.

Abraham1st · 2025-10-17T04:03:20-0500

linux.poet said:
I find it interesting that the Orthodox and the Baptists agree on matters of the Law. I think sexuality is the principle Bible Church and Orthodox disagreement, as well as how churches are to be structured. Bible Churches believe in in church self-governance, which the Orthodox don't really believe in due to their system of bishops. Still, I imagine that if you get deep enough into our respective theologies, you'll find many areas of convergence. When Protestants rebelled against the Catholics, we were attempting to remove what we thought of as errors in Roman Catholic theology, and we were looking to preserve the truth of God's Word, which gave us some things in common with those who never made those errors in the first place.

Anyway, my pastor decided to take us through the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith as part of an adult Sunday School type thing before the service each week, but I am still relatively unskilled in theology. But this was an easy one. Anyone who has read their Bible cover to cover a number of times, attended Bible studies and church for a length of time would be able to write that post, if they understood the principles of hermeneutics. I've only been a Christian for 19 years, so in comparison to a friend of ours I'm still an amateur. If anything, I have more youthful passion to reign in; for I enjoy debates. It is one of my greater weaknesses, and yes, I will get into an argument about whatever it is .

Enjoying a debate too much, or worse yet, a particular debate partner, is only the road to pain in my 14 years on online forums. I would encourage you to take a deep breath in the power of Holy Spirit and step off that road.

I think you are getting confused between sin and the unpardonable sin. Sin is sin - it hasn't changed before or after Christ died. The unpardonable sin is quenching/blaspheming the Holy Spirit and not believing in Jesus' death and resurrection.

Do you have any Scripture to back up this position? I think sin is far greater than this limited list, and lying has to do with false witness (court of law) and repeated lying:

This verse set alone defeats the list in the previous quoted post. Where is murder on that list? That is clearly a sin. No, I'm going to maintain that sin is defined by the Decalogue as viewed through the teachings of Christ.

you seem to be questioning for nothing much, what Jesus Christ brought was grace, and sin was what was before what Christ brought, and truth is what was not brought before, as there is no truth in death which was on all the world, so sin did change, the command to repent was given to all the world, and the preaching of the cross is what causes that repentance, as men can then believe in life and no longer death.

Sin was all there was, along, and binding, then eternal life came, which is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh which the antichrist spirit denies, so confession of this alone is the overcoming of sin, which could not be overcome before, so sin did change, it was defeated, it was replacing death by life, sin in its strength to weakness and gone, nailed to the cross of Christ, for us to also be risen away from sin up into heaven with Him.

Nithavela · 2025-10-17T04:02:34-0500

Tuur said:
It's not obvious? If the object is the cheapest solution, shivering in the dark is the cheapest of all. If the object is a reliable source of power, you have to do certain things., based on the power source, to provide. it. That's more expensive that shivering in the dark, but much more comfortable. Wind and solar, especially if you're going to have some sort of power storage, isn't going to be the cheapest option. Building wind and solar without storage is less expensive than building it with storage, but by it's very nature it's an unreliable power source.

Whether anyone believes me on this or not, it doesn't change what is.

Now, if the criteria is non-CO2 electricity production, the most reliable is hydro, nuclear, and geothermal. Wind and solar are less reliable, again based on the nature of the power source. So is tidal energy. If you want to use that to replace coal and natural gas generation, you're going to have to have that energy storage. Otherwise, you're going to have to burn something to take up the slack when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.

So you're saying that we should choose nuclear power because it might not be cheaper than many alternatives, but since the cheapest option would be to not use any electricity at all, cost should not be a factor?

Yeah, no, that makes no sense. Of course cost is a factor.

Larniavc · 2025-10-17T04:01:38-0500

Aldebaran said:
Correction: it's humans killing humans. So don't try to make it an "Americans" problem.

But it only happens with such frequency and fatality in America. So it is an American issue.

Larniavc · 2025-10-17T04:00:29-0500

RileyG said:
No. Not my point at all. Maybe I wasn’t clear.

Correct.

Abraham1st · 2025-10-17T03:57:33-0500

fhansen said:
The truth will evetnaully prevail.

it has, amazing, the truth shall set us free=faith, and law was what we needed to be set free from.

Abraham1st · 2025-10-17T03:55:15-0500

Can anyone on the Christian forum, with all great theology, great knowledge, even having faith that could remove mountains, be anything, without charity ? The answer is no, the answer is also because knowledge puffs up.

Faith only works through love, Apostle Paul tells how he is crucified with Christ, so Christ lives in him, and the life he now lives he lives by the faith of the Son of God who loved him, and gave Himself for him. ( FAITH WORKS BY LOVE/BELIEVING IN AND BEING EDIFIED BY CHARITY/LOVE.)

God RICH IN MERCY, for HIs GREAT LOVE WHEREWITH HE LOVED US, even when dead in sins, ( in UNBELIEF/IN LAW.) has quickened us together with Christ, ( BY GRACE YOU ARE SAVED.) and has RAISED US UP together, made us sit TOGETHER in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, for ever God will show the exceeding RICHES OF HIS GRACE AND HIS KINDNESS toward us THROUGH CHRIST JESUS, for you are SAVED BY GRACE through FAITH, not of yourselves, it is he GIFT OF GOD. Not of WORKS, or any man should BOAST. ( knowledge PUFFS UP. )

Faith alone wont save you. ( having all faith and not having charity, is NOTHING.)

A man may say he has works. He wont show faith without works. (of faith.) But we can show our faith by our works.

Jesus told those of the LAW, to not labour/WORK, ( as it PERISHES.) but for what endures unto EVERLASTING LIFE, ( WHICH THE SON OF MAN SHALL GIVE NTO YOU, THE SON HAS BEEN SEALED BY THE FATHER.)

The LAW Jews did not accept or understand, and ask again, what WORK to do the WORKS of God ?

Jesus answers them again, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT YOU BELIEVE ON HIM WHO HE HAS SENT.

Those of LAW=no FAITH, required a SIGN, which they wanted to SEE, and BELIEVE, they ask what WORK Jesus did ?

Instead of believing in the testimonies of Christ, the LAW asks questions, and Jesus later answers them how He goes HIs way, ( THIS IS HIS WORK.) and then they still seek Him. ( THOSE OF THE LAW SEEK GOD/JESUS CHRIST IS GOD.) and they shall DIE in their SINS. ( unable to go WHERE HE IS.) They are told they die in their sins BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHO HE IS.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I HAVE WORKS: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Our Maker, ( Christ made all things.) is our husband and our redeemer, the God of the whole earth He is called.

God tells us how this is as the waters of NOAH unto Him, as God had SWORN that the WATERS OF NOAH should no more go over the earth, so God has SWORN that He will no longer be angry with us. HIs COVENANT OF PEACE shall not be removed from us, neither IS KINDNESS depart from us, says the Lord that HAS MERCY ON US.

These are the children to be ALL TAUGHT OF THE LORD, in RIGHTEOUSNESS established, the heritage of the servants of the Lord. ( THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS OF HIM, SAYS THE LORD.)

Jesus speaking to those of THE LAW, ( who in the same chapter 6 were told what the work of God are, and to NOT LABOUR for what they LABOUR FOR, IN THE LAW.) tells them no man can come to Him, but t believe in what was WRITTEN IN THE PROPHETS, ( and the law.) they shall all be taught of God, EVERY MAN THEREFORE THAT HAS HEARD. ( BY THE HEARING OF FAITH TO RECEIVE THE SPIRIT, NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. Galatians 3:2-5.) Jesus tells VERILY, HE THAT BELIEVES ON HIM HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

Isaiah 54:13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

John the Baptist tells of the Baptism that Christ will do, along with the WATER BAPTISM that John did for them, it is to BAPTISE THEM WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND WITH FIRE.

The end times now, many false prophets rise to deceive many, and the love of many has gone cold. INIQUITY ABOUNDS AS FAIT WORKS BY LOVE/CHARITY EDIFIES/KNOWLEDGE/of the LAW, PUFFS UP.)

This Gospel of the Kingdom ( FAITH AND CHARITY.) is preached IN ALL THE WORLD, then the end shall come.

Then any man saying this is their idea of Christ. ( PREACHING ANOTHER JESUS. (2 Corinthians 11:4) BELIEVE IT NOT.

False Christs and false prophets to deceive the very elect if it were possible.

Jesus compares Noah to deter us from these deceivers, so focus on the preaching RIGHT NOW with ME, as the days of NOAH, so ALSO the coming of the Son of man SHALL BE. They did not know when the flood came, they had no faith as Niah had, so were all took away, Noah entered the ARK.

Watch, as we do not know the day nor the hour the Son of an comes.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Again in Luke, Jesus Himself this time speaks of the FIRE He came to SEND ON THE EARTH/ THE BAPTISM HE HAS TO BE BAPTISED WITH. ( to be ACCOMPLISHED.)

WATCH WITH ME, the days came we desire to SEE one of the days of the Son of man and we shall NOT SEE IT. THey shall say to us SEE, but we are to not go after them nor follow THEM.

Jesus tells us HOW TO WATCH, as in the days of Noah, when NOAH by faith entered the ARK, and LOT LIKEWISE, the SAME DAY Lot went out of Sodom it RAINED FIRE, from heaven and destroyed them all. EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED.

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

If you are WATCHIONG with me, ( IN FAITH.) then hear what Christ did for us, the JUST for the UNJUST, to bring us to God, put to death in the flesh and quickened by the Spirit.

By that death He went and preachd to us spirits who were in prison, which were disobedient, ( such as the old world disobedient and all got flooded but NOAH.) and Noah and the souls with him were saved BY WATER.

The LIKE FIGURE now SAVES US, the answer of a good conscience BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST. ( BAPTISM SAVES US BY WATER BAPTISM AND THE HOLYGHOST/FIRE BAPTISM. That is the saving we see in BOTH NOAH AND LOT, WATER BY NOAH AND FIRE BY LOT.)

The FALSE PROPHETS TEACH AGAINST THIS FAITH, but NOAH AND LOT ARE TAUGHT AGAINST THEIR LAW, and also the angels that sinned did so by UBELIEF, NOT BY LAW AND WERE JUDGED FOREVER TO BE CAST INTO FIRE...

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

The Liturgist · 2025-10-17T03:52:41-0500

linux.poet said:
Bible Churches believe in in church self-governance, which the Orthodox don't really believe in due to their system of bishops.

I used to be a Congregationalist pastor, in a denomination which had a Confessional movement, but which was overwhelmingly liberal; I was a member of a conservative parish, the junior pastor, or rather a moderate parish with conservative leadership, but I left when the senior pastor retired since I felt we should leave and join the CCCC, since in opposition to what our ridiculous advertisements at the time said (and to my knowledge, we were the only mainline denomination, the only one of the Seven Sisters of North American Protestantism, to buy TV ad time, why I can’t imagine), that one should never put a comma where God intended a period. Indeed the comma pins they handed out really pushed me over the edge.

However I’ve always liked congregational polity, for this reason - it represents the default state of a diocese with only one parish, and the Orthodox Church has such dioceses - indeed the autonomous Church of Sinai consists only of St. Catharine’s monastery, plus a few chapels in the surrounding hills, but it serves many pilgrims and also the local Bedouin tribes, which have some Christian members but all of whom, Christian and Muslim, go to the monastery for medical services, which has helped keep it safe as well as the Alexandrian Greek and Coptic pilgrims who visit it, as well as the great many who visit it from outside Egypt (along with a few tourists). Thus, all Orthodox churches started out as having a congregational polity.

Also, I believe congregations should be free to change affiliations, the reasons for this being what we’ve seen in recent years in the UMC and the Episcopal Church when traditional congregations have tried to leave. In the Orthodox Church, congregations generally are able to change their affiliation, and recently due to various controversies a large number of churches in Europe changed their affiliation. Each parish is basically controlled by its own board, with the diocese only really having control of the cathedral church and a few other sites which are directly financed by the diocesan treasury.

In general, congregational and episcopal governance are the only systems I’m comfortable with; Presbyterian polity has always struck me as complicated and imposing, and I can’t find a clear scriptural precedent for it. The problem with episcopal polity is where bishops impose themselves on the local parishes, and the problem with congregational polity tends to occur when one church attempts to control multiple “campuses”, the nadir of which I think was Mars Hill in Seattle, where multiple “campuses” existed where people would watch a sermon broadcast from the main church by Mark Driscoll, rather than a local pastor. I feel all clergy should follow the example of St. John the Baptist in his relationship with our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ: “I must decrease, so that He may increase.”

I also continue to have fairly extensive connections with traditional Congregationalist churches even now and have in recent years had leadership roles among churches that are members of the CCCC, which you might regard as Bible churches (I suppose whether or not you do would depend on your opinion of Park Street Church in Boston, which is the last historical congregational church in that city that has not joined either the UCC, like Old South Church, or which joined the UUA in the 1780s such as the First Church in Boston, the Arlington Street Church, and others, notably Harvard University (which I have to confess to not being a fan of, nor to being able to regard its departure from Congregationalism as a great loss).

Apple Sky · 2025-10-17T03:42:04-0500

Strong in Him said:
Maybe?

You have no idea.

We can take a guess can't we ? Tell me why is the tribe of Dan not mentioned in Revelation 7:5 ?

Neogaia777 · 2025-10-17T03:39:56-0500

God cannot logically hold everything against everybody, or nobody would make it in, which is the standard of the law when taken to extremes, so he logically cannot do that with everybody, or nobody would be there or make it in except for the three members of the Trinity probably, and the Bible also seems to imply that he won't do that anymore because of Jesus anymore also actually, etc.

But on the other half or the other side of this coin is that he cannot probably let any and all sin(s) of everybody probably just slide either, or because they only pay lip service to Jesus either, etc, so some things might be held against you maybe, but just probably not all things though actually, etc.

And no one can say for sure what these specific sins will be for each individual person because each individual judgment is going to happen taking in any and all of the factors that need to be counted or figured into that judgement that is always going to be for each individual one each individually, and it might not seem fair to some of us at first until that is all revealed in the judgement to all of us each specifically, etc, which will be a part of why that judgement is even taking place for the rest of us like that, or is even happening that way actually, since God by all rights could just summarily judge everybody without explaining, etc.

So the only thing we can truthfully tell all people right now is that any and all sin that God says is a sin in the Bible, can be a potential risk, etc. And also that none of us knows if those will automatically result in a complete loss of salvation, or just a loss of rewards for what God might choose to hold against you actually, etc. So the safest bet is to not have any sin in your life because anything else could be a possible risk to salvation or rewards maybe, but that none of us knows for sure right now individually or specifically, but we leave that to God in the judgement, or when we're all dead actually, and that for the rest of us right now, we can't say for sure that anyone is going to be absolutely 100% condemned for anything for 100% sure actually, but that we must assume that no one is beyond being saved or sparing/saving actually, but that certainties either way right now don't exist for any of us right now actually, etc. So, fear God, and always do your best to eliminate what God might consider to be sins for you in your life always, including certain perspectives, attitudes, thinking, or points of views always, etc.

God Bless.

Period	Material/Technology	Hardness (Mohs)	Could cut granite w/out abrasives?	Notes
< 1200 BCE	Bronze	3–4	❌	Used abrasives (sand + copper saws)
1200–600 BCE	Wrought iron	4	❌	Slightly tougher, still too soft
600–400 BCE	Early carburized steel	5–6	⚠️ Limited	Could peck, not slice granite
18th century	Crucible steel	7–8	✅	First reliable granite chisels
20th century	Tungsten carbide / Diamond	9–10	✅✅	Industrial stonecutting era

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