are heretical and heterodox not considered the same?

stevevw said:

I mean technically I am claiming noting myself. I am arguing for the data linked and that it is what it claims. Others that want to refute that would need to do like me and find some sort of published work or do it themselves and publish it.

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If we did like you we would be engaging in the most blatant form of confirmation bias.
It clearly obvious you are incapable of addressing the counterarguments or even the evidence presented, your idea of a rebuttal is to ignore everything and double down on your assertions.

Instead of blurting out the same nonsense repeatably of certain vases having near perfect symmetry, circularity and concentricity using amateur software why is a very different picture painted when professional metrology software is used on the OG vase.

Using the STL file for vase OG from the unchartedX site and running it using the code as described in post#573 (the Thinwall STL file analysed is probably not the Vase OG) the result is even worse.



Is the result of 0.842 mm consistent with the surface irregularities of the ZEISS surface deviation heatmaps analysed scan making the Artifact foundation value of 0.027 mm unrealistic, yes it does.

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Your Numerical Results​

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Interpretation of the Numbers​

1. Circularity RMS (0.67 mm ≈ 670 µm)​

That’s an order of magnitude larger than the deviations seen in your ZEISS maps (±100 µm).
This tells us your 3D slice-based method measures global shape distortion, not just local surface roughness.

• ZEISS color maps show local surface waviness or unevenness — small undulations on an otherwise smooth wall.
• The Python analysis captures cross-sectional shape error: i.e., how far each full slice is from an ideal circular cross-section.

So, both are consistent but measure different geometric scales:

• ZEISS: fine surface topology (tens of µm)
• Your script: macroform geometry (hundreds of µm)

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2. Concentricity RMS (1.05 mm ≈ 1,050 µm)​

This shows the vase’s slice centers wobble about ±1 mm from a single axis.
That’s a large misalignment for precision engineering — but very typical for hand-formed or unevenly spun pottery.


On the heatmaps, you can see this indirectly:

• The color pattern shifts slightly up one side and down the opposite side.
• That indicates the profile isn’t vertically symmetric; one half bulges more than the other.
• A 1 mm drift in cross-section centers perfectly explains this appearance.

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3. Combined Metric (P = 0.842 mm)​

This represents overall geometric imperfection magnitude.
Values near 0.1–0.2 mm would suggest near-machined precision;
0.8 mm implies noticeable asymmetry — consistent with the visible color imbalance and nonuniform deformation in the ZEISS maps.

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Consistency with Heatmaps​

✅ Conclusion:
Yes — your numerical results and ZEISS heatmaps are consistent when interpreted in scale context:

• ZEISS captures fine surface deviation (~0.1 mm).
• Your code captures macro shape deviation (~1 mm).
  Both point to the same underlying geometry:
  → A hand-formed or low-precision rotationally guided vase, not a lathe-perfect one.

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Studyman said:

Just to add, not that you don't already know, but God is a Just God as well, executing righteous judgment.

Jesus once said:

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members "should perish", and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (And Perish)

He doesn't say, pluck it out and feed it to the ants, or torture it forever. It's better that just one of your eyes perish, than the entire body, seems to be his point.

In like manner, in my understanding, giving a rebellious, ungrateful and disobedient person, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, the right to eat of the Tree of life and receive immortality, and then inviting them to dwell among, influence and disrupt the perfect righteousness which will be the Kingdom of God, would defile the Kingdom, bring chaos and sin back to His Kingdom. It is better for God to follow His Own instruction, and cast this offending person out, than to leave it, and allow it to infect the entire Kingdom.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

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Thanks for the response.

1Tonne said:

Sadly, I think in most Western churches, there is little desire to go out and share the Gospel with the lost. Most believers focus on making friends with unbelievers, then inviting them to church in the hope that they might hear the Gospel there.
This approach has weakened the Church. Many people now fill the pews not because they’ve come to the foot of the cross, but because they’ve come for friendship. A few may hear the Gospel and experience a true heart change, but most simply attend, enjoy the community, and then spend the week trying to invite another friend to church, and the cycle continues. The church grows in number but not in strength.

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As some have mentioned compared to the early church which is really the hallmark of Christianity in practice being put to the test has become compromised and comfortable.

It was inevitable that even in the western free nations that Christianity would evolve back into a situation where Christians will be tested for their faith. Not necessarily to death but in how this world now destinguishes more clearly a dividing line between Christianity and secular ideology.

The two cojoined and then split and now it is the anti Christ that is in control once again like in the times of Rome or the Islamist conquests of Jewish and Christian lands and people. The same mentality is growing even in western nations.

It is a natural evolution of once again rejecting God as a society and in the public square and the growth of secular ideologies that want to replace God with a human made version of god like the Golden Calf. But on an increasing global scale.

Kirks assassination and the rising antisemetism and other terror groups and growing hate against all things Christian are the symptoms. But Kirks death defined this in peoples minds.

It was a watershed moment as far as people now explicitely choosing between Christ and the antiChrist. Because the extension from his death is being expressed in an increase in hate for Christians and Jews. Whether that be outright acts of murder or terror attacks on ICE facilities or churches. Or in our leaders remaining quiet in condemining such because of the political ideology.

Now there is a tripling down which is getting desperate and dangerous.

1Tonne said:

That said, I do believe there’s a place for friendship evangelism, but it should never be our main focus. We should always share the Gospel with our friends before inviting them to church. Our primary calling is to proclaim the Gospel. When we speak boldly, and people hear and are transformed, then they will want to come to church. That’s how the Church is filled with true believers rather than unbelievers seeking friendship. And if we share the full Gospel, both the bad news and the Good, with our new friend, and they reject it, then they won’t want to come to church. In that way, we avoid filling the Church with weeds and instead keep it a gathering for those who truly desire Christ.

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I think just as the culture and society is becoming more anti God and Christ I think this is when Christians should be like the early church and be even more Christ like as a counter. In fact it is inevitable. It is in the times when Christianity is hated and persecuted that Christians are greatest. Thats when we see the true Christians come out. They put their faith on the line.

The problem is in the west most have heard the gospel 10 times over and they their hearts have become hardened or softened to alternative ideas and the message is not penetrating. But if one of these Christians was asked to take a side and there would be consequences, lost job, financial, harm to body or even death. They would be asked to put their faith on the line and this is when it counts.

This time I think is coming. Whether that be life becoming hard to be a Christian and even speak the gospel or losing careers and money for taking a side. Because the starkness of the difference in how the opposing beliefs play out in reality are clashing. They cannot co exist and Christians will sooner or later have to declare their faith at a cost.

But you are right becuase I think at the same time as bold Christians do stand up they shine Christ and its noticable and turns peoples heads to God no matter what. Because it is so powerful and radical. Its just that some will turn and others will become even more hateful.

But I think now is the time for Christians to go back to how the early church was. Do it now. Sell everything and help the poor. Do what Christ teachings actually say. Don't store up your riches on earth but in heaven. Or at least take some steps towards this more.

1Tonne said:

People are watching us, and so we should do good deeds. It becomes a good witness. But this still does not replace the fact that we need to speak the Gospel. The Gospel is a spoken message. How shall they here without someone to tell them?
Our actions substantiate what we know and believe. And we can either be a good or a bad witness.
If we do bad things, our word becomes compromised, and people will be less likely to believe what we say. The opposite of this is when we act in love; this will lend credibility to our word. For example, in a court of law, if you have 2 people with conflicting testimonies, one is a prostitute, and the other is a doctor. The doctor is the one most people would believe, as his word is not compromised by his deeds, like the prostitute's. He is a good witness.
So, your actions validate what you believe, and then, when you do say the Gospel, people will be more likely to believe what you say.
But when doing good deeds, we must not forget to share the Gospel. We need to share the Gospel by speaking it. Our good deeds are not the power of God unto salvation. They only give us an opportunity to share, and they give our words credibility. Then, when we do say the Gospel, it will give glory to God.

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I have been thinking about this and how word and actions or rather disposition are different. Clement of Rome mentions the greatest Overseers were the ones who spoke little but were Christ like. Christ was like this. He did not speak often but lived His teachings. So when He did speak people believed and knew He was telling the truth.

I think in a world where words have become many meanings and rationalisations. Even the Gospel and Christ being rationalised in all sorts of ways that almost create a complete new religion. I think the best way is to be Christ like as much as possible. Say little at the moment and allow the example and disposition to shine through.

I think this is powerful and speaks more than words. It cuts through all the white noise created by centuries of rationalisations and justifications. Then when words are spoke they hold much more power.

If a church sold all their possessions even causing suffering for themselves and went about helping others. This alone would turn peoples heads to God. To Gods word and the Gospel. Because its so radical and Christlike in a comfortable and material world. Even atheists would be impressed lol. But this is exactly what is needed in this present time.

1Tonne said:

Another example. If I were talking to someone downtown and a passerby heard me use God's name as a curse word, that would not be very good. Then, if I were to go to a park a few days after this and say the Gospel to that same passerby, my words that I say have been tainted because of my previous conduct. He would think to himself, "This fuller does not even truly believe himself because he uses his own God's name as a curse word." So, I am therefore not a good witness. My actions did not bring Glory to God. Instead, they were a disgrace. Our actions substantiate our words. Therefore, bringing Glory to God.

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Yes exactly as to what I was alluding to above. But at the same time I think it has come to a situation where the Christian does not have to do anything wrong and is already condemned as a hater causing trouble or a hypocrite. Just the mention that Jesus saves is enough to trigger some. Or the mention that God created them man and women in marriage is seen as hate speech.

I guess the hypocracy of the church contributed to this. But its more than that. It goes beyond this as commonsense tells us that bad apples don't make the whole bunch bad and that there is also Christlke good in Christians and sense in traditional marriage in research science. Its more a conflict of ideology and who is the god of us and our behaviour.

1Tonne said:

So, love our neighbour by caring for their needs. But also, love them enough to warn them of the condemnation that they are under. It would be unloving to know of God, everlasting life, Judgement, death and the way out, and then not to tell people of it. Love by deed and word.

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Yes and I think there are many ways Gods works. It may be that you work with the disadvantaged and the last thing they want to hear is the gospel. Rather some food in their belly and shelter and all that. But then they wonder why is this person so loving and kind. They open up and the opportunity comes as God makes it.

Sometimes is there and then. The need to clarify the gospel among other ways of being in the world as a matter of life and death and the right choices. But this can be done even in unrelated sciences by research showing Gods truth in marriage and family for example. That even the research supports Gods natural laws.

I think this was CHarlies approach. Not just the gospel but that even mainstream consensus and research supported biblical teachings. So Gods way also made sense in reality. Sometimes people come to God because they realise there there had to be a God because the world has no answers ect. There are many ways.

I run a music group in a homeless hub and play secular songs that hint at God and then some meaningful words and people then open up and mention God themselves. Or sometimes it just happens. A homeless person or street person who is a Christian just comes in and starts singing and praising God at the right time. Just enough to not make some of the more sensitive guests get triggered.

I have worked most my life in social welfare and with government and non profit secular. They are now pretty strict on pushing a certain secular ideology. Just mentioning God or Christianity is a trigger lol. You have to we smart sometimes when going into the lions den lol. Though I have had differences of opinion with the management lol. It depend where you are working or doing Gods work.

In that sense Charlie was a great Christian. Because I could imagine a Christ just going into a progresive campus and preaching. They would be driven out and hounded. But Charlie managed to go right into the lions den and engage and have opportunity to speak directly about the gospel.

GoldenKingGaze said:

In 65 AD 11 may have still been alive of the 12 that included Matthew. Or maybe less, church tradition tells us where the apostles died but not exactly when. Many can witness Christ's resurrection, and some are apostles by God's design.

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I think I will continue trusting what God says in His word about apostles.

Most churches I have gone to the sermons are around 15 minutes long, maybe 20 at most.

Apple Sky said:

Sorry I have to disagree - Nobody has penetrated the firmament, low earth orbit is the furthest we can go.

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Another one of your statements with no evidence. Against your notion that nobody has gone farther from earth than a low earth orbit, we have the accounts of those who have travelled in space rockets, including the testimonies of some who either became Christians before they went, or, like Charles Duke, afterwards.

Bradskii said:

And those would include sex and killing. Under certain circumstances they become rape and murder. Relative to those circumstances.

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Yes. Paul mentioned circumstances in which a spouse deliberately denied sexual intimacy with their spouse, killing another human being for self defense or as a consequence for certain crimes. Specifically, the adulterous woman whom Jesus forgave, both in a situation in which sexual sin was made, yet the penalty of death was graciously waved. That is one example in whish both sex and killing was shown grace.

Note:I just want to emphasize that in no way am I condoning spousal rape, but to emphasize that a spouse's deliberate rejection of physical intimacy is just as wrong as a person stealing food. Still wrong, but grace is given.

I wonder if OP has learned anything from this thread.

Vambram said:

No. I do not.

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Since I know I won’t get a straight answer out of Always I’ll just talk to you instead.

Why do you not blame both parties for their inaction?

If neither side is backing down then both are responsible for the gridlock that has brought the federal government to a standstill. I have no problem admitting the Democrats bear some of the responsibility for this shutdown.

Why can’t you guys be critical of your own party?

Always in His Presence said:

You first have to answer my question so I know we are talking about the same Republicans.

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I asked you first.

If you don’t know what Republicans we’re talking about in a thread about the government shutdown then maybe this isn’t the thread for you.

Teaching what??

Once again way too vague

ChubbyCherub said:

Thanks for responding and with a scripture!!! - appreciated!

So those who have never heard of Christ are judged according to their works? I don't read that in the scripture you provided, can you point it out for me, please?

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Certainly. `And I saw the dead, small and great standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books.` (Rev. 20: 12)

GoldenBoy89 said:

Still not seeing a direct yes or no.

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You first have to answer my question so I know we are talking about the same Republicans

As soon as you give me a direct answer, then I can do the same. Some clarity is needed for an answer.

Thanks

Always in His Presence said:

Yeah, facts get so messy, it could disturb a narrative.

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Still not seeing a direct yes or no.