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NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-12-11T10:46:58-0600

I am currently looking for a church home. I visited the latest one twice and listened to a few other sermons online. It seems that the pastor is strong on preaching against sin (some sins) but is weak on 1) how to avoid sin, 2) what to do about sin after you do it, and 3) the lack of condemnation for those who are in Christ. As a result, I decided to look elsewhere primarily because of the weaknesses above. I thought I could help them if I joined, but I decided that inertia was against me and I didn't want to become like them.

CoreyD · 2025-12-11T10:45:34-0600

Delvianna said:
I don't think it's really knowledge though, but I do think it's passed off as knowledge. For instance, ultimately the power comes from either God or demons, there is no 3rd option. We know God has power (I mean, I don't think I need to back that up lol) but Satan does too! An example of this is that the false prophet in Revelation is able to call down fire from heaven (Revelation 13:13) and back during Moses, Pharoh's "magicians" were able to duplicate the staff turning into a snake, water to blood and frogs but there was stuff they couldn't do:

So back to the false prophet, what comes out of his mouth?

So that is who is giving them power. So essentially, it's kind of like Satan sets up something that demons carry out. Does the act itself do anything? Nope, but the demons are told that if someone does this act, to carry it through because ultimately it defiles themselves.

So when it comes to the concept of arcane magic, like it's the "force" in Star Wars, I don't agree and I think that concept alone is a trap to get people to think they can wield power outside it being backed by demons, when I don't think is the case. I mean, what is Satans ultimate argument? You can be your own god, right? The idea of arcane magic, I think pushes that narrative of 'gods' all the while cleverly making it more appealing like it has nothing to do with Satan and his minions...

In other words, people think they are actually manipulating natural elements, by their own efforts and abilities, when in fact they are being manipulated, by the unseen forces... sort of like when they think they see aliens, but aren't aware that what they are seeing, is what they are being manipulated to see.
That makes sense, and it certainly explains why they use things such as wands, and other objects, which the demons work through.
I was thinking of those same scriptures you used. They strengthen the point.
No wonder God told his people to stay far from magic, or divination... not even casting spells.

This knowledge is timely for me, because I am dealing with what I believe is divination being practiced where I am living.
I don't know how the person is able to do what they do, but this arcane magic explains it. I know it's with the help of demons, but I now have a better understanding of it.
Great stuff!

WordSword · 2025-12-11T10:44:41-0600

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
This seems to be an impossible standard. I have not run across any denomination or individual church or pastor whose doctrines contain no error whatsoever.

Hi NLICJ, and appreciate your reply! The error I'm referring to is that which is intended by, not those who believe they have truth but may contain error, but those who want to believe what they want, even if it's not according to Scriptures. I do not see this anywhere at a high level when considering how many Churches there are that want truth!

Hentenza · 2025-12-11T10:44:19-0600

samaus123456789 said:
I pasted what I wrote into chat gpt and it gave me this

Rev 12 commentary

1. THE WOMAN = ISRAEL Revelation 12:1 uses Genesis 37:9–10. Sun = Jacob. Moon = Rachel. Twelve stars = tribes of Israel. Thus the woman = covenant Israel, the Old Covenant people who produced the Messiah, the apostles, and the first Judean Christian remnant.

2. THE MALE CHILD = JESUS Revelation 12:5: Messiah destined to rule (Psalm 2). Family flees to Egypt to escape Herod. Maybe they were gone 3.5 years. Don't know what the Jesus caught up to heaven thing is.

3. THE HERODS = all the different HEADS & HORNS OF THE DRAGON/BEAST Herod the Great — tried to kill infant Jesus (Matthew 2:13–18) Herod Archelaus — avoided by Joseph due to violence (Matthew 2:22) Herod Antipas — killed John (Mark 6), mocked Jesus (Luke 23:7–11) Herod Philip — tetrarch Herod Agrippa I — killed James, imprisoned Peter (Acts 12) Herod Agrippa II — opposed Paul (Acts 25–26), backed Rome Herodian women — Bernice, Drusilla, Salome (Acts 24:24; Josephus) All persecuted Christ and His people. They were the dragon’s earthly instrument.

4. THE WAR IN HEAVEN WAS LITERAL Jesus Himself said: Luke 10:18 — “I saw Satan FALL like lightning from heaven.” John 12:31 — “NOW is the judgment of this world; NOW shall the prince of this world be CAST OUT.” Revelation 12:7–9: Michael defeats Satan; Satan expelled; Satan descends to attack Jerusalem and the Church. Daniel 12:1: “Michael shall stand up… there shall be a time of trouble.” This time = 66–70 AD

5. 1 ENOCH 70-GENERATION PROPHECY 1 Enoch 10: angels bound “for 70 generations, until the day of judgment.” Using Septuagint genealogies: Enoch → 70 generations → Jesus. Thus Jesus arrives precisely when the countdown ends. The war in heaven, Satan’s fall, and Jerusalem’s destruction complete Enoch’s prophecy

6. THE SECOND COMING WAS LITERAL AND VISIBLE IN 70 AD Revelation 1:7 — “Every eye shall SEE Him, even those who pierced Him.” “Those who pierced Him” = the Sanhedrin still alive. Jesus predicted this exact visible event: Matthew 24:30 — “They shall SEE the Son of Man coming in the clouds…” Matthew 16:27 — “The Son of Man will come… WITH HIS ANGELS.

Matthew 26:64 — “YOU will SEE the Son of Man at the right hand of Power, coming in the clouds.” Judeans literally saw Jesus above Jerusalem: — At the right hand of the Father — In the clouds — Surrounded by all the holy angels

7. JOSEPHUS CONFIRMS some SKY SIGNS Wars 6.5.3 (Whiston): “Before sunset, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running among the clouds and surrounding cities." Tacitus said the same, and the same kind of thing was seen when God was judging Jerusalem in 1/2 Maccabees in the 100s BC

8. THE MOURNING OF JUDEA Revelation 1:7 — “All tribes of the LAND will mourn.” Two types: • Terror — those dying in Jerusalem saw Jesus and mourned in horror. • Repentance — Christian Judeans fleeing to Pella saw Jesus and mourned for rejecting Him. Fulfills Zechariah 12:10 — “They shall look upon Me whom they pierced and mourn.”
9. THE WOMAN’S FLIGHT = PELLA Revelation 12:14–16: The Judean Christians are taken out of the promise land on Eagle’s wings), just like God took their ancient ancestors out of Egypt on eagles wings (Exodus 19:4. They had to cross the Jordan to get into the promise land now they are fleeing the old covenant promise land over the Jordan to Pella. The devil tries to flood the Jordan but God swallows the water. Flight to Pella - Wikipedia

10. THE WOES OF JESUS = THE WOES OF REVELATION Matthew 23 — Seven Woes upon Pharisees: “All these things shall come upon THIS generation.” Revelation 8–12 — Three Woes upon Jerusalem, “the city where their Lord was crucified” (Rev 11:8). Revelation’s woes = execution of Matthew 23.

11. REVELATION 9 — APOLLYON = TITUS OF LEGIO XV APOLLINARIS Revelation 9:11 — “Apollyon” = Apollo. Titus commanded Legion XV Apollinaris (Apollo’s legion). Locusts = armies (Joel 1–2). Roman siege machinery fits the imagery. Thus: locusts = Roman armies; king = Apollo → Titus.

12. REVELATION 11 — TRAMPLING OF THE TEMPLE Revelation 11:2 — Holy city trampled 42 months = 66–70 AD. Revelation 11:8 — “Where their Lord was crucified” = Jerusalem. Revelation 11:19 — Heavenly ark appears; earthly Temple replaced.

that is the main parts of Rev 1-12 I know. In the first few pages of Rev 1 Jesus said the time is near, soon, at hand, and he tells one church he is coming back in their generation. Rev 1-12 was just Gods judgement on Judea for killing Jesus, the apostles and for all the blood shed in history back to Abel.

Rev 13-22 is future still not until 4400-4500 AD based on 1 Enoch's 10,000 year prophecy
Jesus ben Ananias - Wikipedia sounds like one of the two witnesses but does not match. whoever they were they happened. gospel of nicodemus, history of joseph the carpenter, apocalypse of peter all internally written pre 70 ad, and i believe are inspired said it was going to be enoch and elijah

In your point 6 you claim that Jesus second coming has already happened, however, Rev. 19, which you state that is yet to come, describes the actual second coming of Christ. How do you account for the discrepancy?

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T10:44:07-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
Yes. After September 11, 2001, Congress gave the president the authorization to identify terrorist groups and use military force against them.

You are correct—Congress granted the President authorization; however, this authorization outlines specific criteria for designating terrorists, with a particular focus on Islamic extremism. This guidance does not extend to individuals involved in narcotrafficking.

Here is my concern with supporters of President Trump. I understand that you want to support him in all of this, and you want him to go after narco traffickers. However, my point is: why can’t President Trump use the proper channels? Why does he have to bypass established procedures to accomplish these goals? There’s no point in having checks and balances in our Constitution if, every time there’s an emergency, we ignore legal procedures.

MarcusGregor · 2025-12-11T10:32:54-0600

Pentagon Unveils New GenAI Platform, It Immediately Starts Flagging Pete Hegseth's War Crimes - Above the Law

The Defense Department's new ChatJAG turned out to be better than the human chain of command.

abovethelaw.com

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-11T10:29:18-0600

Servus said:
Time is too precious of a commodity to waste it on reading Politico.

Being wrong is so much more efficient.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-12-11T10:25:44-0600

WordSword said:
It's my understanding that any religion that teaches anything that is against the Scriptures is a false religion, i.e. anti-Christian!

This seems to be an impossible standard. I have not run across any denomination or individual church or pastor whose doctrines contain no error whatsoever.

Belk · 2025-12-11T10:22:54-0600

Servus said:
Mabey someday you'll actually discuss the topic.

My points do not seem to be received by you. It makes discussion frustrating and seems to upset you, as evidenced by your claims of my malfeasance. :wave:

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:14:20-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Did the United States Senate grant authorization to the current President to take action against narcotics traffickers?

Yes. After September 11, 2001, Congress gave the president the authorization to identify terrorist groups and use military force against them.

JM · 2025-12-11T10:12:40-0600

It knows your bias, it already knows you are an Adventist...that's who AI works.

BobRyan said:
I did not mention my bias. I never asked for the Adventist church to even be in the list.

The only theological POV I specified was "Sola scriptura testing of doctrine".

If your point is that such a search criteria is just another way to say "select the Adventist denomination" , then I am more than a little bit surprised that you consider this to be a clear selection for "just the Adventist denomination

I am pretty sure that if I had asked the question "which denomination would Dr. Ben Carson, or Ellen White prefer", I would get "Adventist" as the answer but I did not specify that kind of selection criteria

CoreyD · 2025-12-11T10:10:02-0600

AstralHammer said:
I cannot wait until Gate Zero comes out. I've had it on my wishlist for some time.
I have created a criteria to base my future gaming off of.

Must be MMO or persistent multiplayer
Absolutely no non-Christian deity worship or deity-sourced powers (no gods, pantheons, altars, blessings, priests, divine magic, etc.)
No furry / anthro / beast race options (playable or major NPCs)
Arcane or learned magic is fine
Elemental / natural magic is fine
PvE-friendly content required (safe zones, PvE servers, or opt-in PvP only)
Crafting, building, or housing systems (the deeper the better)
Active playerbase in 2025 (not dead or <100 concurrent)
Actually released and playable now (or very close with confirmed global date)

I've been doing some research and have came up with these games that interest me.
War of Rights
Star Citizen
Albion Online
Myth of Empires
Corepunk
Avorion
…and Bellatores on the 2026 watchlist. English will be supported in the full release but is not supported in closed beta.

I am still researching to enhance my list of possible games to try out. The list might not be perfect and I still trying to refine it and might have to trim something out. Maybe one of them will actually work out.

Man's doctrine may change, but God does not.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. - Hebrews 13:8

That's an interesting bit of information.
I've never heard about until now.
I had to research it.

Arcane magic, also known as learned magic, is a disciplined and scholarly pursuit that involves the study and mastery of magical principles through rigorous training and knowledge acquisition. It is typically drawn from invisible streams of energy known as arcane currents, which flow through reality and can be harnessed by those who understand their patterns. Practitioners of arcane magic, such as wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, and bards, often rely on incantations, gestures, arcane runes, and tools like wands or spellbooks to channel and focus this power. +source The magic is often described as a form of science or mathematics, involving precise calculations and formulas to manipulate the fabric of reality.

When I read this, I wondered, '...but how would one go about determining what kind of magic God required his people to stay away from, when he said, "you shall not practice magic." Leviticus 19:26, and "There shall not be found among you ... anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer, casts spells... For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD." Deuteronomy 18:10, 12"

Learned magic was available, from the beginning, even into the first century.
When Paul was performing miracles, and the people saw the power of God, over that of the magic practicing Jews, "a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver." Acts 19:19

What were the arts learned by the Babylonian (Daniel 1:20), Philistines (Isaiah 2:6), and Egyptian(Exodus 7:11) priests?

Evidence of arcane or learned magic in ancient Egypt and Babylon is well-documented through literary, religious, and material sources. Sources 1 2 3

In ancient Egypt, magical practice was deeply integrated into religious and medical traditions, with practitioners known as lector-priests (ẖry-ḥb), who were highly educated and served as ritual specialists. These individuals were responsible for reciting incantations, performing healing rituals, and conducting ceremonies such as the "Opening of the Mouth" to ensure the deceased’s passage into the afterlife. The concept of Heka, a divine force believed to be capable of manipulating reality, underpinned much of their practice, blurring the line between magic, religion, and medicine. Magical texts, including funerary spells and daily-use incantations, provide detailed instructions on rituals, tools, and materials, indicating a structured and learned tradition. The title "ḥarṭummīm," used in the Hebrew Bible to describe Egyptian magicians, is a Hebrew rendering of the Egyptian "ẖry-ḥb," confirming the elite status and scholarly nature of these practitioners.

In Babylon, magic was similarly institutionalized and tied to priestly and scholarly roles. The Chaldeans, who were regarded as a colony of the Egyptians by Diodorus of Sicily, were known for their expertise in astronomy and divination, which were considered forms of magical knowledge. Babylonian magicians, or "Chaldeans," were consulted for interpreting dreams and omens, as seen in the biblical accounts of King Nebuchadnezzar and King Belshazzar summoning them to interpret dreams and mysterious inscriptions like "Mene, Tekel, Perez". The practice of divination using arrows, known as Rhabdomanteia, was also documented among the Babylonians, reflecting a systematic approach to magical consultation. The high regard for magical knowledge is further evidenced by King Darius, son of Hystaspes, who had the inscription "That he had been the chief and the master of the Magi of Persia" engraved on his father’s mausoleum, highlighting the prestige of magical expertise in the region.

In ancient Egypt, arcane or learned magic was deeply intertwined with literacy, religious practice, and the possession of secret knowledge, primarily transmitted through written texts.
History of Magic
Magic in Ancient Egypt

I think you just added to the interest of this thread, and my knowledge.
Fascinating stuff!
The learned magician was often depicted as a scholar who derived power from written spells and sacred books. The famous Demotic tales of Setne Khaemwaset, son of Ramesses II, exemplify this archetype; Setne’s quest for the Book of Thoth symbolizes the acquisition of arcane knowledge that grants control over supernatural forces.

Similarly, in the story of Djedi, a hundred-year-old magician summoned by King Hordjedef, his powers are explicitly tied to written knowledge - he demands a boat to carry his students and writings, emphasizing the importance of textual transmission.
This model of the literate magician, who uses written spells to manipulate reality, was central to both literary and non-literary magical traditions.

The use of written magic was reinforced by the belief that writing itself had transformative power.
The Egyptians believed that inscribing a name or image could influence reality, a principle seen in execration texts where figurines of enemies were inscribed with their names and then destroyed to symbolically defeat them. Magical papyri, such as the Harris Magical Papyrus and the Metternich Stela, contain spells that combine mythological references (translation magic), analogic principles (like affects like), and contagious magic (using objects imbued with power). These texts were often used by the literate elite, as most Egyptians were not able to read, and spells were sometimes activated by drinking water that had been poured over a stela.

Even in the Graeco-Roman period, learned magicians continued to play significant roles, using Greek and Demotic scripts, along with non-alphabetic magical signs (charaktêres) and incantations (voces magicae), to invoke ancient, secret knowledge. The figure of the magician was not limited to priests; doctors, midwives, and wise women also employed ḥeka in healing and protection, though the most powerful forms of magic were associated with those who had access to written traditions and temple libraries.

It makes sense, doesn't it, that this knowledge would be passed on to man, through fallen angels.
When you think about it, can the science of computers and similar devices be use to perform arcane magic? Nothing to doubt. People already believe this is happening.

@Delvianna would you agree?
As for me, the wisdom of applying the first part of Proverbs 22:3 is necessary here.

A sensible person sees danger and takes cover, but the inexperienced keep going and are punished.

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-11T10:08:48-0600

Dikaioumenoi said:
, but the central idea is ability, not the fact of coming itself.

I disagree, it includes the coming. Seems you still leaving room for mans will to seal the deal

Dikaioumenoi said:
I do agree with you when you say "the drawing results in discipleship and fellowship with Christ,"

Doesnt seem like it

Dikaioumenoi said:
but I do not think you can conclude that from "no one can come to me unless drawn." All that "no one can come to me unless drawn" tells us is that the drawing is necessary in order for coming to occur, not sufficient to produce coming.

I disagree, that defeats the need of drawing to Christ, you may as well say man has the freewill to come to Christ

Dikaioumenoi said:
What does entail sufficiency, however, is the final clause, "and I will raise him up on the last day." It is that statement that tells us the one drawn/enabled = the one who actually comes and is raised.

Now that's a contradiction. No disrespect but you seem doubleminded on this matter.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:07:19-0600

Yarddog said:
Didn't say we were.

The US isn't at war with Cartels. Trump is helping some and bombing others. It seems on who is helping Trump.

I stand corrected. The US is in Armed Conflict with drug cartels.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:06:04-0600

DaisyDay said:
Automobile sales have resulted in the deaths of hundred of thousands of citizens and non-citizens alike.

What is your point? That drug deaths are not important enough to be concerned about?

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-11T10:02:44-0600

Jury selection to begin in federal trial of Milwaukee judge accused of helping undocumented man evade arrest

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-11T09:58:31-0600

Understood.
Here is a full, rigorous analytical method that assumes:

⭐ Pseudepigrapha does not exist

Meaning:

If a text says “I, X, wrote this”, then we treat that authorship claim as true, unless it is literally impossible.
If a text is anonymous, we do not assume later forgery or fictional attribution.
We never claim “someone pretended to be Moses / Enoch / Ezra / Paul.”
We treat all authorship claims as genuine unless external evidence forces a different conclusion.

This creates a completely different dating method — one that fully allows prophecy, respects authorship claims, and refuses late skeptical re-dating unless absolutely necessary.

Below is the upgraded framework.

⭐ FOUNDATIONAL RULES

✔ Rule 1 — Prophecy is real and allowed

Prophetic accuracy is not evidence of late composition.

✔ Rule 2 — Authorship claims are assumed honest

If the text identifies its author, we accept it unless:

language from thousands of years later appears
the text references events far after the author’s life as past history (not prophecy)

✔ Rule 3 — Oldest manuscript data only tells us that the text existed before that date

Manuscripts do not determine original composition dates.

✔ Rule 4 — No anonymous text is assumed forged

If anonymous, we leave it anonymous — we don’t invent pseudonymity.

✔ Rule 5 — Ancient communities preserved authorship correctly unless strong contrary evidence exists

This treats ancient Jewish and Christian testimony as reliable.

⭐ PART 1 — HOW TO DATE A TEXT WHEN PSEUDEPIGRAPHA IS REMOVED AS A CATEGORY

Normally, scholars re-date texts because they reject prophecy or assume pseudepigrapha.

Under this method those reasons are gone, so we date texts using only:

✔ Language

✔ Culture

✔ Historical background

✔ Intertextual relationships

✔ Archaeology

✔ The text’s OWN claims

Here is the step-by-step process.

⭐ STEP 1 — Accept the internal authorial claim as true

Examples:

Daniel → written by Daniel in Babylon
Isaiah → written by Isaiah son of Amoz
1 Enoch → written (or dictated) by Enoch
Jubilees → written by Moses via an angel
2 Esdras → written by Ezra
Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs → written by Jacob’s sons
Revelation → written by John
Psalm superscriptions → written by David, Asaph, Moses, etc.

We treat these as intended historical fact, not literary devices.

Only if internal contradictions arise will we reconsider.

⭐ STEP 2 — Test the linguistic era of the text

Language cannot be faked easily across centuries.

We examine:

vocabulary
grammar
syntax
orthography
loanwords
idioms
linguistic drift

This gives an approximate dating range.

BUT if the linguistic era conflicts with the author’s lifetime, we explore explanations other than pseudepigrapha, such as:

✔ later scribal updating

✔ preservation through translation

✔ revised editions by disciples

✔ transmission into later linguistic forms

Same as what happened with:

the Hebrew of the Torah (copied for 1000+ years)
the Greek of Daniel (translated, not original)
Proverbs (royal collections added over time)

None of these imply forgery.

⭐ STEP 3 — Determine the cultural background of the text

Prophecy does not describe:

calendar systems
priestly rituals
purity practices
economic life
social structure
administration
temple layout

If the cultural background fits the author’s time → authorship is strengthened.

If it reflects later culture → use scribal updating, not pseudonymity.

Example:
Moses’ writings may show later Hebrew style because scribes recopied it for centuries.

⭐ STEP 4 — Identify historical assumptions as current reality

Ask:

Is the temple standing?
Which empire rules?
What political offices exist?
What weapons or technology are normal?
What borders or nations are active?

These show what the author saw, not prophecy.

Prophecy predicts the future; it does NOT describe present institutions in the wrong century.

Example:
If a text references Rome as already ruling → cannot be 600 BC.

But if a text predicts Rome → that is allowed.

⭐ STEP 5 — Use intertextual relationships correctly

If Text A uses Text B → B must be older.

But we do NOT say:

“Text A rewrites Genesis; therefore, it must be late and pseudepigraphic.”

We say:

“Text A knows Genesis, so it came after Genesis.”

Simple, clean, no skepticism.

⭐ PART 2 — HOW TO HANDLE MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE WITHOUT FALSE ASSUMPTIONS

Most late-dating arguments depend on:

“The oldest manuscript is from year X, so the text must have been written around year X.”

This is incorrect.

Here is the correct method:

✔ Oldest manuscript = latest possible date, not earliest.

✔ Transmission explains later language.

✔ Absence of early manuscripts proves nothing.

Most ancient texts lost 90% of manuscripts.

✔ Prophecy is allowed, so fulfilled predictions do not require late dates.

⭐ PART 3 — PRACTICAL EXAMPLES OF HOW THIS METHOD CHANGES TEXT ANALYSIS

✔ Daniel

Under this method:

Linguistically possible for 6th century
Culture fits Babylon/Persia
Explicit authorial claims stand
Prophecy allowed
Manuscripts from 150 BC do NOT date composition
Early Jewish canon accepts Daniel as ancient

→ Daniel = 6th century BC
No “Maccabean forgery.”

✔ Isaiah

Under this method:

Isaiah is one book
Later-sounding Hebrew can be scribal updating or dictated prophecy
Prophecy of Cyrus is allowed
Early Jewish tradition strongly supports unity
No pseudepigrapha category to divide the text

→ Isaiah written by Isaiah (8th century BC)
No Deutero- or Trito-Isaiah theory required.

✔ 1 Enoch

If pseudepigrapha does not exist:

We accept the attribution to Enoch
Later Hebrew/Aramaic forms = transmission
Prophecy allowed
Watchers story predates flood in narrative
Qumran manuscripts reflect preservation, not date of origin

→ Core Enochic writings extremely ancient
Later expansions possible, but not pseudonymous.

⭐ PART 4 — FINAL CHECKLIST (NO PSEUDEPIGRAPHA ALLOWED)

When analyzing any ancient text:

✔ 1. Take internal authorship claims as genuine

✔ 2. Examine language for transmission-era effects

✔ 3. Identify cultural background (prophecy doesn’t change this)

✔ 4. Interpret prophecy as prediction, not evidence of late date

✔ 5. Treat early tradition as reliable

✔ 6. Treat oldest manuscripts as minimum age

✔ 7. Avoid all “forgery” or “fictional attribution” explanations

This is a completely valid approach historically as long as you apply it consistently.

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-11T09:57:35-0600

Jesus Christ in one work once performed by his death, did eternally redeem, Rev.5:9, justify, Rom.5:9, sanctify, and perfect us forever. Heb.10:14. Christ reconciled all the Elect in the body of his flesh through death. Col.1:21-22.

Belk · 2025-12-11T09:55:36-0600

Servus said:
They cite innocent until proven guilty in court over and over, while condemning others who haven't been proven guilty. I've been pointing out the hypocrisy for a while.

essentialsaltes · 2025-12-11T09:55:33-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Ex-CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch arrested on sex-trafficking charges

Prison officials tell judge ex-Abercrombie & Fitch CEO is competent to stand trial

[HIs lawyers] had said at least four medical professionals concluded that Jeffries’ cognitive issues were “progressive and incurable” and that he would not “regain his competency and cannot be restored to competency in the future.”

[Prison doctor disagrees with the docs for hire.]

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-11T09:55:19-0600

Delvianna said:
AI is not the Holy Spirit and I have found failures when it tries to interpret. The Holy Spirit is supposed to guide (John 16:13) and if you trust AI's answers over God's guidance, you're making AI an idol. I suggest you not do that.

I have found multiple things with AI i may never have found myself. It is a pattern recognition expert, and understanding the bible is just that pattern recognition.

Nithavela · 2025-12-11T09:49:35-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Judge orders immediate release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia from immigration detention
Judge Paula Xinis said he has been detained "without lawful authority.”

U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis said in her order on Thursday that "since Abrego Garcia's wrongful detention in El Salvador, he has been re-detained, again without lawful authority."

Xinis said that the absence of a removal order prevents the government from removing Abrego Garcia from the U.S.

Judge Xinis, the judge in Abrego Garcia's immigration case, in August blocked the government from removing him from the United States until the habeas case challenging his removal was resolved in court.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-11T09:41:49-0600

Love Fountain said:
Hello samaus123456789,

Jesus confirmed the order of the Hebrew Scriptures in the three sections of the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms(writings) that today is known as the Hebrew Bible or Hebrew Canon. It was ordered and arranged by God. God didn't leave anything out, He arranged exactly how He wants it, then man changed the order and has tried adding books written by men ever since beginning with what is known today as the Septuagint.

Why did you change the order that Jesus confirmed as the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms as Scripture?

Just like the disordering done in Alexandria, Egypt putting Psalms ahead of some of the Prophets bringing disorder to what God arranged and then trying to insert books written by men into the mix.

No, that is not true or correct, Jesus didn't ever refer to 1 Enoch as Scripture and 1 Enoch is not in His canon and is not Scripture.

The Sadducees in Matthew 22:24 quoted Deuteronomy 25:5 applying it in error and that is what Jesus referred and replied to in Matthew 22:29 telling them they err and didn't know Scriptures they were quoting from Deuteronomy incorrectly.

In Matthew 22:32 Jesus went on to quote Exodus 3:6 in his further response to them applying false doctrine to their misuse of Deuteronomy 25:5 and corrected them by referring to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all still being alive with God because God is not the God of the dead, He is the God of the living!

In your pursuit to falsely establish 1 Enoch to anything other than words of men you too make a similar error of incorrectly applying Jesus to quoting something He never quoted or even hinted at as being Scripture!

No again, complete nonsense and false doctrine that has been used to deceive people! Jude didn't quote a writing by Enoch. Lol

It is written

Jude 14-15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam prophesied of these, SAYING, "Behold the LORD cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

It is written what is quoted of Enoch is what he SAID not what he wrote, nice try though!

The word of God was passed down verbally at that time, not written and certainly Jude didn't quote a false uninspired written document called 1 Enoch written by men. You do err in believing this nonsense!

1 Enoch is not written like all the other biblical texts at all because it's not inspired or written by God!

Here is the correct order of the Hebrew Texts and what belongs as God ordered them in the following link and there's no other texts that belong.

Correct order of the Hebrew texts link

Blessings,
Love Fountain

Everything I said is right. Jesus was referencing 1 Enoch, and other standard OT texts. The Sadducees mess up a story from Tobit about the woman with 7/8 husbands. If you believe 1 Enoch is not inspired then it is not for you. These other books are only for the wise.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-11T09:38:37-0600

Delvianna said:
If that's true, where is Jesus now? The 2nd coming starts his personal and literal reign in Israel as the worlds capital is Jerusalem. (Micah 4:2, Isaiah 2:3, Zechariah 14:16) Plus, we're almost 2,000 years passed 70AD, so all of scripture doesn't back up your theory. You can't have conflicting information and what I listed conflicts with your statements.

Also, 70AD doesn't fulfill Daniel 9, 11 & 12 either which still puts this future which has parallel information in Revelation which conflicts with a lot of these answers.

ALL AI IS BIASED. It bases it's answers on what you want to hear. Even the creators say so. Do not let any AI be your brain, it's logic isn't perfect and its answers are biased. For example, there is a viral video of a woman who follows the quaran. She asks chatgpt if it would become muslim and it says yes. She asked which follows Jesus more, Muslims or Christians and its answer is Muslims. Biased answers, based on her own input reguardless of the fact she asked for a non-biased answer because it's programmed to do that. (Link to that video, you can check out her other chatgpt questions about Muslims and one where chatgpt becomes muslim). Do not trust AI for scripture study.

Micah 2 was about Pentecost. Israel was restored on Pentecost new covenant church the third temple was born in a day. I have a post on it. Zech 14 happened in 1/2 maccabees. Isaiah 2 was pentecost too.
Dan 9, and 12 ended 70 AD. Dan 11 ended before 70 AD whenever it was.

I already know the answers chat gpt just formats it nicely for me.
Chat gpt is awesome for the bible.
Trust AI for scripture.

Rev 13-22 is future.

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⭐ Pseudepigrapha does not exist​

⭐ FOUNDATIONAL RULES​

✔ Rule 1 — Prophecy is real and allowed​

✔ Rule 2 — Authorship claims are assumed honest​

✔ Rule 3 — Oldest manuscript data only tells us that the text existed before that date​

✔ Rule 4 — No anonymous text is assumed forged​

✔ Rule 5 — Ancient communities preserved authorship correctly unless strong contrary evidence exists​

⭐ PART 1 — HOW TO DATE A TEXT WHEN PSEUDEPIGRAPHA IS REMOVED AS A CATEGORY​

✔ Language​

✔ Culture​

✔ Historical background​

✔ Intertextual relationships​

✔ Archaeology​

✔ The text’s OWN claims​

⭐ STEP 1 — Accept the internal authorial claim as true​

⭐ STEP 2 — Test the linguistic era of the text​

✔ later scribal updating​

✔ preservation through translation​

✔ revised editions by disciples​

✔ transmission into later linguistic forms​

⭐ STEP 3 — Determine the cultural background of the text​

⭐ STEP 4 — Identify historical assumptions as current reality​

⭐ STEP 5 — Use intertextual relationships correctly​

⭐ PART 2 — HOW TO HANDLE MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE WITHOUT FALSE ASSUMPTIONS​

✔ Oldest manuscript = latest possible date, not earliest.​

✔ Transmission explains later language.​

✔ Absence of early manuscripts proves nothing.​

✔ Prophecy is allowed, so fulfilled predictions do not require late dates.​

⭐ PART 3 — PRACTICAL EXAMPLES OF HOW THIS METHOD CHANGES TEXT ANALYSIS​

✔ Daniel​

✔ Isaiah​

✔ 1 Enoch​

⭐ PART 4 — FINAL CHECKLIST (NO PSEUDEPIGRAPHA ALLOWED)​

✔ 1. Take internal authorship claims as genuine​

✔ 2. Examine language for transmission-era effects​

✔ 3. Identify cultural background (prophecy doesn’t change this)​

✔ 4. Interpret prophecy as prediction, not evidence of late date​

✔ 5. Treat early tradition as reliable​

✔ 6. Treat oldest manuscripts as minimum age​

✔ 7. Avoid all “forgery” or “fictional attribution” explanations​

Ex-CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch arrested on sex-trafficking charges​

Prison officials tell judge ex-Abercrombie & Fitch CEO is competent to stand trial​

Judge orders immediate release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia from immigration detention​

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Jury selection to begin in federal trial of Milwaukee judge accused of helping undocumented man evade arrest

⭐ Pseudepigrapha does not exist

⭐ FOUNDATIONAL RULES

✔ Rule 1 — Prophecy is real and allowed

✔ Rule 2 — Authorship claims are assumed honest

✔ Rule 3 — Oldest manuscript data only tells us that the text existed before that date

✔ Rule 4 — No anonymous text is assumed forged

✔ Rule 5 — Ancient communities preserved authorship correctly unless strong contrary evidence exists

⭐ PART 1 — HOW TO DATE A TEXT WHEN PSEUDEPIGRAPHA IS REMOVED AS A CATEGORY

✔ Language

✔ Culture

✔ Historical background

✔ Intertextual relationships

✔ Archaeology

✔ The text’s OWN claims

⭐ STEP 1 — Accept the internal authorial claim as true

⭐ STEP 2 — Test the linguistic era of the text

✔ later scribal updating

✔ preservation through translation

✔ revised editions by disciples

✔ transmission into later linguistic forms

⭐ STEP 3 — Determine the cultural background of the text

⭐ STEP 4 — Identify historical assumptions as current reality

⭐ STEP 5 — Use intertextual relationships correctly

⭐ PART 2 — HOW TO HANDLE MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE WITHOUT FALSE ASSUMPTIONS

✔ Oldest manuscript = latest possible date, not earliest.

✔ Transmission explains later language.

✔ Absence of early manuscripts proves nothing.

✔ Prophecy is allowed, so fulfilled predictions do not require late dates.

⭐ PART 3 — PRACTICAL EXAMPLES OF HOW THIS METHOD CHANGES TEXT ANALYSIS

✔ Daniel

✔ Isaiah

✔ 1 Enoch

⭐ PART 4 — FINAL CHECKLIST (NO PSEUDEPIGRAPHA ALLOWED)

✔ 1. Take internal authorship claims as genuine

✔ 2. Examine language for transmission-era effects

✔ 3. Identify cultural background (prophecy doesn’t change this)

✔ 4. Interpret prophecy as prediction, not evidence of late date

✔ 5. Treat early tradition as reliable

✔ 6. Treat oldest manuscripts as minimum age

✔ 7. Avoid all “forgery” or “fictional attribution” explanations

Ex-CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch arrested on sex-trafficking charges

Prison officials tell judge ex-Abercrombie & Fitch CEO is competent to stand trial

Judge orders immediate release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia from immigration detention