CoreyD said:

Joshua is the beginning of carrying out the command to wipe out these nations, isn't it?

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Yeah I didn't think of that. Moses never entered the cities of the promised land though Deuteronomy 20:16-20 talks all about it. So things in Joshua could be relevant too then like you were saying.

CoreyD said:

Oh. Not getting them to fly?

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I couldn't get the arrows to attach to the animal - e.g. its leg or body.

CoreyD said:

How will you catch a runaway horse, or a cat for that matter... give it fish?

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The animals in the game are very tame.

CoreyD said:

You are calling the shots here, John. Not me.
It's your game. I know what I would do for a game. It won't invite the lovers of violence, but it would still be fun.
Everyone has their own heart.

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BTW in the Roman Colosseum the crowds also loved violence... "Executions by beasts were popular among plebeians, who saw them as thrilling entertainment". That is far too shocking for my tastes though.

Perpetual Student said:

That isn't Rocksinmyhead's point. His point is that people who committed one of the most horrible crimes ever received a fair trial. The alleged crime of drug smuggling is way less evil than the Nazi crimes. And yet they are murdered at sea on allegations alone and this murders are justified by the Trump administration and different members here.

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It was actually my point but yes that’s it. we put the Nazis on trial not just to prove their crimes but also to show the world how we operate. That we’re better than them and for a little while, that was true.

Delvianna said:

mâshîyach - anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint), the Messiah:—anointed, Messiah.

Notice the comma, which is why every king, priest or saint is not "Messiah".

Same word used in 2 Samuel 1:16 - For David had said to him, “Your blood be on your own head. Your own mouth testified against you when you said, ‘I killed the Lord’s anointed.’”

Someone killed the "Messiah" then according to you??
-----

Good luck to you too.

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if you join the book of Enoch study group on facebook with 400k members, then click files, then download Enoch 71.14 it explains that son of man verse. Here is sneak peak

And he came to me and greeted me with his voice, and said unto me “This is the Son of Man who is born unto righteousness, and righteousness abides over him, and the righteousness of the Head of Days forsakes him not.” (1912, R. H. Charles)

● And that angel came to me, and greeted me with his voice, and said to me: “You are the Son of Man who was born to righteousness, and righteousness remains over you, and the righteousness of the Head of Days will not leave you.” (1978, Michael. A. Knibb

As we can see, this passage has presented a problem for translators. The difference between the two translations could not be more noticeable. The more recent translations by Daniel Olson and Nickelsburg/Vanderkam have followed the Knibb revision.790 Knibb’s idea has now become the most accepted understanding among textual scholars.791

I have no problem even if it did call Enoch the son of man

Strong in Him said:

Nonsense.
That doesn't mock Christ at all.

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Yes. It requires a huge stretch of the imagination to think that because there are 33 sectors on the UN symbol, and Jesus was 33 years old when He was crucified, that must somehow mean that the UN is mocking Christ.

JohnClay said:

Actually it is for 13+ year olds. You have to be at least 13 on Steam and there is no age check for the game (based on the game's cartoonish content). The warning says it isn't suitable for younger players which means under 13 year olds.

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Oh, okay.

JohnClay said:

I'm not an atheist - I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force. I did include entire Bible passages rather than leave out the problematic verses.

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I'm not saying you are atheist.

JohnClay said:

Like I said there was a Christian that reviewed it and he thought it didn't involve enough suffering. i.e. Christians are playing it too.

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Loving God and identifying as Christian aren't one and the same thing.

JohnClay said:

The goal was to show some of the most controversial passages in the Bible - not to portray everything in the best possible light.

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I understand.

JohnClay said:

Well for Deuteronomy 20:16-20 every single verse is in the game:

Except that I only mention the Jebusites. It includes soldiers telling you not to chop fruit trees and you have to chop other trees to build ladders to climb over city walls.

The parts I added were obviously not historical - e.g. magic laser swords, holy hand grenades, etc.

I think Joshua wasn't set at the same time as Deuteronomy 20. Apparently it happens after Moses' death.

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Joshua is the beginning of carrying out the command to wipe out these nations, isn't it?

JohnClay said:

Well I had technical issues adding in arrows.

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Oh. Not getting them to fly? How will you catch a runaway horse, or a cat for that matter... give it fish?

JohnClay said:

I think it is far more closely based on the Bible than most Bible games - e.g. in the SNES Noah's Ark game you have to shoot food at aggressive animals and they fall asleep.

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Yes. Lots of games take the course of of the maker.

JohnClay said:

Well when I began this game as part of the university subject "Playcentric Game Design" the player experience goal was for the player to feel shocked. Now the goal is for the player to feel conflicted - i.e. the gameplay could feel fun but they can feel bad because they are committing war crimes (including killing babies - though you can order the soldiers to do that)

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You are calling the shots here, John. Not me.
It's your game. I know what I would do for a game. It won't invite the lovers of violence, but it would still be fun.
Everyone has their own heart.

Delvianna said:

I'm curious why you're so resigned to the idea that WW3 would start next year specifically. We've been on a WW3 brink for a long time now.

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The Lord told me.

PloverWing said:

Interesting conjecture. I guess I'll check back here a year from now, and we'll see if you were right.

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The war in the higher-dimensional divine realm began long ago, and the forces of Lucifer, along with some of the foreign gods who colluded with them, suffered a crushing defeat.

I often heard from the Holy Spirit.

But I never got the "feelings". I always hear about Christians getting distinct good feelings which they clearly recognize as from the Holy Spirit.

Feelings of comfort and great contentment with myself is probably the closest thing but I don't think that's it.

I never forced it either.

I was in a pentecostal group prayer couple times surrounded by people falling and wriggling on the floor and felt absolutely NOTHING even though I'm praying.

Eventually, the group thought I'm possessed by an evil spirit so they all surrounded and laid their hands on me and I still felt nothing. If I'm actually possessed, that would mean the group have absolutely no power over the spirit that's possessing me or lack the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in them. Either way, it's bad.

I feel better (not necessarily feeling the Holy Spirit) alone and can hear the Holy Spirit way better alone and in silence.

joechristianwarrior said:

I’ve been reflecting lately on how often Scripture warns us about greed and how closely that warning is tied to God’s call for justice and care for others. Jesus speaks about money and the dangers of wealth more than almost any other topic, yet many Christians today find conversations about justice uncomfortable or “political.”

So I wanted to ask the community here:
Why do you think discussions about justice and greed create such tension among believers?
Is it a matter of theology, culture, politics, or something deeper in the human heart?


I’m preparing a video on this topic and would truly appreciate hearing a range of Christian perspectives!

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I have never noticed this.

joechristianwarrior said:

Do any of you think Christians will still be living in cities in the end times? And if so, do you think any of them will live off the waste of society in that time period?

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I believe that the cities in the end times, starting very soon, will be very much like Sodom and Gomorrah. Get out of the cities.

RocksInMyHead said:

"Even the top Nazis were put on trial. How are these South American drug traffickers so much worse?"

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Servus said:

Did you see any low rank noncom Nazis on trial along with Goering?

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That isn't Rocksinmyhead's point. His point is that people who committed one of the most horrible crimes ever received a fair trial. The alleged crime of drug smuggling is way less evil than the Nazi crimes. And yet they are murdered at sea on allegations alone and this murders are justified by the Trump administration and different members here.

reBoot said:

Yes, that's just one aspect of it (as a mockery of Christ).

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Nonsense.
That doesn't mock Christ at all.

What if he carjacked a Toyota Corolla on the NW side instead??

martinlb said:

Why do some people speak in an at least 700-year-old version of the English language?

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I don't know. It seems particularly apparent in prayer meetings. For example, I remember a dear Christian brother, now with the Lord, who in prayer referred to people who were ill as those who were "laid on one side on a bed of sickness."

Gene2memE said:

The US has historically rejected this argument, because it can be inverted and argued about US actions like sanctions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(25)00189-5/fulltext

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The article seems to be saying that even sanctions kill people. Even more people then war. So what is the solution.

All I know is that sanctions and diplomacy and even bribes have not worked for some. Whatever the previous administration did it did not work and in fact made an even bigger problem.

In some American Churches, old English phrases might be used like in the Lord’s Prayer but that’s about it. This style of English is still around 400 years old though.

Even the Mayflower Compact of the 1620 Plymouth Colony is fairly understandable now.



The language of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are basically understandable. The technical aspects of these documents can be challenging but that is a different matter.

Look at the 1863 Gettysburg Address of Abraham Lincoln. It is sophisticated, brief but still comprehensible even if needs to be read carefully.


My ancestry is Arabic and American colonist. When I was a kid in the early 1970s, I never heard anyone in our families speaking using words like “thou” or “thee” .

stevevw said:

Do you think that now that the drug boats have just about stopped and its saving lives is a good thing.

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Have they?

There is too much money in the drug trade for it to just dry up after a few destroyed boats.

Besides, this isn't really about the drug trade. It's about the USA going after another country with oil that they think they can manufacture a reason to attack. With Iraq it was "weapons of mass destructions". With Venezuela it's "narco-terrorism".

Just that this time, the government of the USA feels that they don't need to convince international allies and cobble together an "alliance of the willing". They just need to convince the people of their own country.

Stopped_lurking said:

What is the connection between the cargo on the boat and drug overdose deaths? Does removing one boat actually reduce overdose deaths with 20000? You are justifying killing the people on the boat because the cargo kills someone els. So how many lives are saved by sinking the boat and killing those on it?

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The good old trolley ethical dilemma.

You could ask the question a number of ways. How many lives are taken and destroyed by a boat load of drugs. Just like the trolly dilemma you have to choose between 5 people or 1 person. Or it may be 5 people on the drug boat and howevermany is estimated from a boat load of drugs. I would say it would be way more than 5.

But unlike the trolly dilemma if you do nothing instead of killing 1 or 5 people. By allowing it to go on you are allowing onging killing on your door step knowingly of a million over a generation.

So if taking out 5 boats stops the drug boats then so long as its stopped you will have saved a million people over a generation. But even if its half that or just saving lives for 1 year its still more lives saved.

Stopped_lurking said:

By whom, did they give a source?

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Now your concerned about sources lol.

Stopped_lurking said:

So how would what was on the boats kill 20000?

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I don't know, this is what was claimed. I guess if you average it out over a generation then the amount of drugs on each boat is equivelent to killing 20k over that generation.

Stopped_lurking said:

By cocaine overdose?

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Yes and I think this is mixed with fentanyl.

Stopped_lurking said:

So how many drug deaths can be laid at the feet of Venezuela?

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Does it matter. Lets say its 25k a year. Or even 10k. If terrorist came into a country and killed 10,000 people would that be ok. Whats the difference between a weapon and a poison that kills people.

Stopped_lurking said:

Sure, I don't have any problem with interdicting drug smugglers. Straight up executing them, not really ok to me.

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Ok so we just let them continue to smuggle drugs in and kill 1,000s.

So do you think assassinating Hamas leads or Iranian leaders who planned and plotted to murder 1,000s through terror was wrong without a trial.

Bradskii said:

How about you give us a statement as regards your position on the morality of that? Or do you still need to wait to find out who was responsible?

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Wait until they somehow can put the blame on Obama, Biden or Hillary Clinton. Then you'll see how wrong the second strike was.

Hans Blaster said:

Have you not noticed that the US courts have felt no compunction in prosecuting drug traffickers who never even entry the US? Recently the president of Honduras was tried, convicted, and sentenced to 40 years in a US federal prison for his efforts in trafficking 400 tons (!) of cocaine over a couple decades.

[voice off screen, peanuts style] wah wah wa waa wawah.

[Me] He did what?

[voice off screen, peanuts style] wah wawah wah waa wawah.

[Me] Oh [expletive deleted]!

Never mind.

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So how do they get Moros into a US prison. Will that stop the drug trade.

Not saying its right but it seems just a few boats blown out of the water has just about stopped the trade overnight.

The same thing happened with Hamas. The US bombed Iranian nuclear bunkers, take out Hama leaders and then threaten Hamas to be wiped off the face of the earth. Hamas was then negociation a peace deal to let the remaining hostages go. No other method achieved such an outcome.

Sometimes evil people don't care and are not open to negociations and doing the right thing. So what do you do then.

Welcome to CF.

stevevw said:

I don't know and why does it matter. All I know is that theres an aweful lot of deaths.

This is what was mentioned. That theres enough drugs on each boat to kill 20,000 people. That may not happen in one year as not every one will overdose and die.

Its averaged out over a generation where there was around a million deaths. By why does it matter quibbling about numbers. Its bad. Like they said this is more deaths than all the major wars of the 20th century.

Why are not people protesting and shutting down Universities and streets over 1,000s of people being killed by the flooding of drugs from a neighbouring nation.

If all the protests are about living together in peace then if my neighbour or a house down the street was flooding the town or city with drugs. I think most people would be upset and want the drug suppliers stopped.

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The US has historically rejected this argument, because it can be inverted and argued about US actions like sanctions.

BCP1928 said:

I don't know if it's a good thing, but it apparently is the Christian thing to do.

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Why is it always the 'Christians'. Like they are always the mean ones. Isn't this whole thing a matter of subjective opinion. You could say those who have sat by and quietly allowed 1,000s to die and families and communities destroyed due to policy inaction is being a mean as well.

BCP1928 said:

Most nations and most non-Christians in this country think that if you sink an enemy ship it is wrong to machine gun the survivors in the water.

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I think this is making a false equivalence. This is conflating the ethics of fake news and a seperate issue with the issue of whether stopping the drug boats full stop is ok or not. We don't even know if the fake news is verified. But your quick to spread the narrative without evidence.

Let me clarify also that none of this is a good thing as far as Christian values. War and using force and killing others even if justified to save many is still not a good thing. Compared to it not having to happen in the first place.

But thats not always how life works and there actually is evil in the world.

The reality is sooner or later this is going to be the case. That as evil grows and encroaches on others its a case of how far you tolerate this. If you have negociated and reasoned and pleaded and they don't stop then what do we do.

I think it depends and when it comes to national security and safety then this is a different situation. If the practices of another State are harming people what do you do. If the government of that nation knows whats happening and even participates in it. What then.

In some ways the drug boats are like terrorist who are aiming their poison at other nations to exploit and profit off them and are quite willing and knowingly murdering 1,000s of people in another nation in the process.

Guojing said:

The 12 + James never left Jerusalem in their lifetime, because the nation of Israel never accepted Christ as their Messiah. Cornelius was a one off incident and he was saved under the same program that Israel had.

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What theological importance are you concluding from this?
Also - I'm not sure Cornelius was 'saved' under the same program that Israel had - because that program was no longer valid. Jesus said if Israel did not worship him, God could make the very stones cry out! Cornelius was not a Jew, which is the very reason Peter had the dream about the unclean animals and salvation coming to the non-Jews.

Also, I'm not even sure if your claim about the Apostles staying in Jerusalem is technically true - let alone any conclusions you might attach to that statement.

PETER and JOHN: Acts 8:14 Peter and John sent to Samaria

Acts 9:32–43, Peter goes to Lydda, then Joppa, then in 10:23 Caesarea / Cornelius.

PHILIP (the evangelist) - Acts 8:5 Samaria, 8:40 then Caesarea.

PAUL (Saul) - everywhere across the Greek speaking world then Rome.

Let alone all the other church leaders that Acts shows were sent out to the nations for other purposes.

The theology of the New Testament is clear: God's plan for Israel was fulfilled in Jesus living as the perfect Israelite, dying in our place, and bringing in the kingdom of God via the church in this weird age we live in of "now but not yet" kingdom living.