Phil G said:

Well you tell me. You’re the one who brought Luther in on this. So you bear the responsibility for proving he believed the earth to be flat. Can you find one teaching of Luther where he says the earth is flat and not a globe?

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Never claimed that Martin Luther said the earth was flat, what I said was that ML knew the earth to be stationary & didn't move.
At least get yer facts right.

Phil G said:

“No, Martin Luther did not believe the Earth was flat; he, like most educated people of his time, knew the Earth was a sphere, and he was aware of the long-standing scientific and philosophical evidence for its roundness. However, Luther was strongly against Nicolaus Copernicus's heliocentric model, which placed the Sun at the center of the solar system instead of the Earth. He rejected Copernicus's ideas based on his interpretation of the Bible, particularly the Book of Joshua, and believed the geocentric model (Earth-centered) was the correct one, but this was a theological and philosophical stance, not a belief in a flat Earth.”

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I only asked, 'And how does one know what Martin Luther believed' ? Stop getting so touchy.

boughtwithaprice said:

With all due respect, I love Mexican culture. I don’t like being singled out because of my race, but if my race was associated with increased criminal activity, that only means that I have to
try harder to prove myself, which I am all too happy to do

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But this kind of mind set leads to all kinds of absurd ideas. Think about it for a minute. Whites commit 69% of all rapes and 74% of all sexual crimes. Should the police stop all whites for suspicion of rape or sexual crimes? Blacks commit 52% of all robberies should all blacks be stopped for suspicion of robbery?


Do you see the absurdity? There is no difference in the look of an illegal alien or a legal alien or citizen walking or driving down the street. There is no sign hanging from their necks identifying them either way. In general, a brown Mexican born here looks no different than one that did not.

Look, I have no problems deporting every illegal alien criminal living in the US which is what Trump ran his campaign under. But the bedrock of our justice system is probable cause and due process. Everyone in the US that is accused of a crime needs to go through the judicial system not just arbitrarily adjudicated guilty. What Trump is doing parallels to what we did to the Japanese during WWII. If our judicial system is not for everyone then the system fails everyone. Who knows another president might decide that Christians need to go and Trump is setting precedence.

boughtwithaprice said:

There are many criminals crossing the southern border, not just Latinos. The border must be secure. Bexar county may have voted for Harris, but it was due to propaganda.

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Agreed.

boughtwithaprice said:

What does the democrat party do? Play identity politics. We are sick of it and are not falling for it anymore: I do not have Latino American or that idiotic Latinx, nor African American friends. I have American friends, and we all love our country
The same is true in Our Catholics Churches here in San Antonio. Scripture says there is no
Jew nor Greek, but here we say there in no Anglo nor Latino, black nor white, we are one in the body of Christ Jesus. We respect the laws of the nation in which we reside. We do not claim exemption from law due to race.

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I did not vote for Harris because of where the Democratic Party its been heading for quite some time. Trump, at the time, was the lesser of two evils but an evil nonetheless. My vote was against Harris but not for Trump. Both parties are operating at their respective extremes and that needs to change.

boughtwithaprice said:

I’ll grant you that there are right wing crazies and there are left wing crazies. I admire that you are centrist. I am centrist in that Christ died for all people, not identity politics because it is evil in that it attempts to divide and demonize.
That is the very thing Christ preached against. He said love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you, not practice identity politics
Division plays into Satan’s hands. Is Christ divided? God forbid!!

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He also said to love the your neighbor and not oppress the stranger. I don’t think that we should demonize a whole race merely because some have crossed the border illegally.

““You shall not oppress a stranger nor torment him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭22‬:‭21‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

trophy deer

Dan1988 said:

Sorry to disappoint you but my verses destroy your interpretation of the verses you tried to use against my theology. I have unleashed 45 verses below, which prove that your theology is based on false doctrine.

Now lets talk about Gods hatred
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 18-22&version=NKJV

45 Things God Hates | PDF

The document lists 45 things that are described as hated or prohibited in the Bible. These include homosexual acts, bestiality, various pagan practices like idol worship, divination and astrology, dishonesty, violence, pride, falsehoods, unjust treatment of others, vain sacrifices, robbery...

www.scribd.com

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The definition is in the New Testament and the Lord summed in His commandments to us ( Matthew 7:12, Matthew 22:36-40 etc.) which originally are in the Old Testament ( Deuteronomy 6:4, Leviticus 19:18). You will notice that the golden rule ( Matthew 7:12 per Matthew 7:1-12) is the “LAW & PROPHETS” and that on God’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40 etc.) are which the “LAW & PROPHETS” hang or are dependent on.

You have something against the Gospel? I don’t claim any right to speak for God but to obey His commandments ( however wretchedly I do) but He tells us to ( John 14:15-18). The ultimate thing God “hates” is evil and that is what we are allowed to “hate” ( Amos 5:14-15). I would take care to not rationalize any idea of self justification as being justified by what God may “hate.”

I would carefully read ( Isaiah 55:1-12) especially Isaiah 55:8 ( I know ya did so what am I telling you huh?) well reread it and the Lord’s commandments.

Desk trauma said:

Not sure what the takeaway from that was supposed to be. Are you accusing me of being a member of congress or of committing tax fraud?

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Whose image is it?

Keras, according to your previous timetable that you said was inspired by the holy spirit in a vision in the Middle East in 2010 or something, we're only a few months off the abomination of desolation.

Where's the temple mate?

You assured me then you had absolute certainty.

You told me all the Amil theologians I read were like the blind Pharisees, which is basically akin to calling them unsaved which is against forum rules.

Absolute certainty.
Vision from the holy spirit.

But no temple?

All this stuff about you being on a special mission from God to explain Revelation to the modern church is absolute hogwash, and I have absolute certainty about that!

Bradskii said:

The point being made was that you don't get to take a quick peek at the leader board to see what brand of theocracy you're likely to get. The decision is first: Secular governance or theocracy. Pick one and then you can decide on what type you'd like.

Would you first pick theocracy if the majority of citizens were Muslims? I don't think so. But me? My first choice is always secular. I don't want society run on the basis of 'what is written' in any given holy book.

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Realistically and historically, that's not the way "the government you get" usually works.

You usually get the government of whoever wielded the greatest preponderance of violence.

2PhiloVoid said:

Oh, I suppose we don't have to cite 'Critical Theory specifically, such as it has been. But with all that any of us might deign to carry along and support regarding notions that knowledge, truth, and social structures are fundamentally shaped by power dynamics between dominant and oppressed groups.

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Certainly I am aware of that theory and it has a certain amount of instrumentality--just like many others. So what?

2PhiloVoid said:

I mean, if you don't think there's anything fundamental to epistemological and social interplay and structures politically, then I guess you haven't been affected by 'Critical Theory.'

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I'm not sure what that means. It sounds like you are saying that if I don't believe critical theory is 'foundational' then I believe nothing is foundational.

2PhiloVoid said:

At the same time, I'm wondering to what extent folks on the Democratic Left, particularly the more extreme wing of the Left, have the ability to compare and contrast the nuances of difference between, say, C.S. Lewis' political jaunt in his 'Screwtape Proposes a Toast' on the one hand, and the following video [below] of obvious sarcastic demonizing made by those from The Babylon Bee. I mean, what analytic appraisals are going to be made by those on the Left to discern the Christian criticism of a C.S. Lewis from that of a right leaning, Babylon Bee rhetoric? Any? Or are they just going to start kicking and fussing (and pressing Deconstruction) with what I'm implying here without fully listening, engaging and thinking it all through?

Login to view embedded media

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Don't forget, there are religious people on the "left" as well and given that literacy skills correlate pretty well with "left" orientation, it may not be as big a problem as you seem to think. Do you think that the inability to make such a discrimination is a major contributor to declining religiousity?

Jipsah said:

It meant what it said to those to whom it was written. Remember them ? Almost nobody seems to remember the folks to whom the Revelation was explicitly written.

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Imagine if someone ran around saying that 1 Corinthians had to be written to their particular church in the 21st century for it to MEAN anything?

That's what these people are doing with Revelation

That’s unfortunate

Fervent said:

You may believe so, but I see no reason not to differentiate between theocracies anymore than it wouldn't make sense to endorse any governance simply on the ground that it is "secular".

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The point being made was that you don't get to take a quick peek at the leader board to see what brand of theocracy you're likely to get. The decision is first: Secular governance or theocracy. Pick one and then you can decide on what type you'd like.

Would you first pick theocracy if the majority of citizens were Muslims? I don't think so. But me? My first choice is always secular. I don't want society run on the basis of 'what is written' in any given holy book.

ARBITER01 said:

The blood of Jesus "renewed" our human spirit into His likeness, hence why all of us, male or female, are considered brethren. We wasn't given a new human spirit that we didn't have before, it was regenerated from it's fallen state.

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Nope. We (those who are born of the Spirit) are to put off the old man that grows corrupt (Eph 4:22). And we are to put on the new man, which "was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness (Eph 4:24). The new creation (2 Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15) is "a new creation".

ARBITER01 said:

Some people were brought up out of a really sinful life when they were born again. I was one of those. My born again life has been one of victory over sin year after year since 1992. I credit The Holy Spirit with this after I was filled with Him.

The goal for us is Christ-likeness. Jesus expects us who are believers of His, to do the same works as He did. We can't do that if we are dominated with sins in our life, hence, we have to have victory in our new-born lives over those sins of the past. For some folks, it can take quite a bit of time, but it is to be a continual climb in holiness with GOD. Holiness is spiritual cleanliness.

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Ok, but the line you are drawing is fuzzy, with no clear borders or boundaries. How does one measure his progress in holiness? In particular, what does "success" look like?

The reason there is ambiguity is that holiness demands no sin -- there is no such thing as partial holiness. Even a single little sin makes a person unholy. One result of this is that it is impossible to measure progress towards holiness. Either a person is holy or he is unholy. That is why it is important to see the truth that the new creation (the new man/spirit) has true righteousness and holiness. Our holiness is Christ's holiness, and it exists in the new man because we are joined with Him and are one spirit with Him (1 Cor 6:17).

ARBITER01 said:

I can't explain this any clearer. If you are unable to understand my stance on this, then I will need to go. I'm not here for arguments and debates on this site anymore.

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Fervent said:

The full scope of the philosophical question is not restricted by your OP.

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Well you just struck the cord that inspired the OP - the cord that asserts the truth cannot objectively be presented by any of us, but "it's only another opinion".
The OP is created for the purpose of laying that satanic lie to rest.
The question is not philosophical at all.

To make such a claim is to diminish or invalidate Jesus' words at John 4:23, 24; John 17:17... as well as a few other texts, including 1 Timothy 2::3, 4.

Fervent said:

It's not a missing "the", it's the wheel that is created. If you don't know what the truth is, nor the appropriate method for making the identification, how do you go about answering either question?

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It's simple.
You tell the person asking, Christians don't know what truth is.
Not only would you give them mixed emotions - whether to be puzzled or laugh, but you would have added to the confusion and perhaps the meaninglessness of Christianity today.

Do Jesus' followers know the truth?
Can Jesus' followers know the appropriate method for making the identification?
Can Jesus' followers answer the question?

Fervent said:

The circularity is in the claimed act of finding it, particularly in the context of John 17:17. It seems you're not asking a question for the sake of exploration, but to launch off into pontification.

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From your response and another poster, it seems the OP isn't being read in full, or the comments aren't being connected, or linked to each other. Or something...

Acts 17:1-4, 10-12
It was Paul's custom, to reason with people from the Scriptures; explaining and proving by giving evidence of what was true. Acts 17:2, 3
The result:
Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few leading women. Acts 17:4

Those in Berea examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.
The scriptures were what revealed truth to them. They could compare what Paul said, with the scriptures to see if what Paul said was in line with truth.
The scriptures were like a measuring rule.

Did the Bereans find the truth?
Was it clearly outlined in the OP what method led to their finding it?
It wasn't John 17:17, which says what the truth is.

The truth the Jews did not want to hear was that they had failed the mission the Father had given the house of Israel, where it was being shown by Paul, the 12, and the 70 sent to the 70 nations under control of the elohim, that Jesus had accomplished what they could not. Pride overcame their fall. They were failed servants even though they like Christians today, felt boastful about the relationship to the Father.

Hentenza said:

What does people “look like” that are breaking the law?

Bexar county voted blue which means that it voted for Harris not Trump,

https://home.bexar.org/el45a.html

I have lived in Houston, Texas since 1977. I know the history of Texas.

Been there many times. Love the river entertainment. And, I’m a centrist and an independent not far left.

Y tu sabes Espanol o lo traducistes electronicamente? Yo soy Latino y el primer idioma mio es Espanol. Todavia no me gusta que la migra nos detengan simplemente por la apariencia o porque ablamos Espanol.

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With all due respect, I love Mexican culture. I don’t like being singled out because of my race, but if my race was associated with increased criminal activity, that only means that I have to
try harder to prove myself, which I am all too happy to do
There are many criminals crossing the southern border, not just Latinos. The border must be secure. Bexar county may have voted for Harris, but it was due to propaganda.
What does the democrat party do? Play identity politics. We are sick of it and are not falling for it anymore: I do not have Latino American or that idiotic Latinx, nor African American friends. I have American friends, and we all love our country
The same is true in Our Catholics Churches here in San Antonio. Scripture says there is no
Jew nor Greek, but here we say there in no Anglo nor Latino, black nor white, we are one in the body of Christ Jesus. We respect the laws of the nation in which we reside. We do not claim exemption from law due to race.

I’ll grant you that there are right wing crazies and there are left wing crazies. I admire that you are centrist. I am centrist in that Christ died for all people, not identity politics because it is evil in that it attempts to divide and demonize.
That is the very thing Christ preached against. He said love your enemies and pray for those that persecute you, not practice identity politics
Division plays into Satan’s hands. Is Christ divided? God forbid!!

camille70 said:

Epsteins brother said it wasn't Clinton, but didn't say who it was. Other people have said it was a donor with rhe nickname Bubba.

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Don't believe it. Clinton may be a slimeball, but even he has limits.

Desk trauma said:

I do?

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You tell me.

Bradskii said:

The answer to 'Is a theocracy a valid alternative to a secular government?' is either Yes or No. It isn't 'Well, It is if it's my type of theocracy'.

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You may believe so, but I see no reason not to differentiate between theocracies anymore than it wouldn't make sense to endorse any governance simply on the ground that it is "secular".

The Barbarian said:

Apparently, a phrase in the emails has led to a truly filthy story about Trump and Bill Clinton together. But Clinton has denied it. And he surely wouldn't lie about something like that.

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Epsteins brother said it wasn't Clinton, but didn't say who it was. Other people have said it was a donor with the nickname Bubba.

Edit:
He implied it was a personal joke.

ARBITER01 said:

Joh 14:12 Indeed, I tell you truly, the-one believing into Me, the works which I do, shall that-one do also, and greater than these shall he will, because I go unto My FATHER.


Notice the Greek articles? This passage is for all of us, not just the apostles. Our behaviors are indeed involved. The born again experience was just the start of a life long pursuit of Jesus and the examples He gave us to follow.

"Imitate me as I imitate Christ."

If you're going to believe your bible, believe all of it.

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Have you ever raised someone from the dead? Have you ever walked on water, given the blind sight or cured someone of their disease? Have you ever raised yourself from the dead? In all honesty, do believe you ever will?

Do you honestly think living in the twentieth century, within a culture where your understanding of language, the present world around you, and God Himself, that you are interpreting scripture the same way the audience of the day, who scripture was written directly too, would have understood it?

I'm not saying it wasn't written for us, but it certainly wasn't written to us. The very fact that we can have so many different and conflicting understandings is proof of this reality.

If you understand the very foundation upon which the Gospel is built, but certain scriptures later on appear to contradict this, isn't it more likely we have miss understood those pieces of scripture?

concretecamper said:

I'm sorry, I can only respond to what you post, not what you think.

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I have not asked you to respond to what I think.
Responding to what I said is most welcomed.
What did I say the ring of truth refers to, in post #39, and post #56?

RDKirk said:

Your viewpoint is consistent that you don't want a theocracy despite the proportion of the population practicing a particular religion, whether 10% or 55%.

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The answer to 'Is a theocracy a valid alternative to a secular government?' is either Yes or No. It isn't 'Well, It is if it's my type of theocracy'.

J Natl Med Assoc 2022 Dec 27;115(1):15–17

The impact of COVID-19 vaccinations on stillbirth rates among pregnant women in the Metro-Detroit area​

Infection by COVID-19 increases maternal morbidity and mortality prompting both the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology and the Society of Maternal Fetal Medicine to strongly recommend vaccination during pregnancy. Limited data exist assessing the risk of intrauterine fetal death (IUFD) associated with COVID vaccination during pregnancy.

This was a retrospective chart review at a large multisite hospital system in Metro Detroit which reviewed data from 13,368 pregnancies. We compared IUFD rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated patients. The rate of stillbirths among unvaccinated women (0.75%) was not statistically different from those who were vaccinated (0.60%). Individuals with government insurance were less likely to be vaccinated and more likely to have IUFD in comparison to patients with private insurance. The rate of stillbirths among Black women was significantly higher than among White women at a rate of 1.1% compared to 0.53% (p=0.008) with no difference in stillbirth rates among vaccinated vs unvaccinated racial distribution.

Apparently, the results from your study couldn't be reproduced by other studies. Not a surprise.

CoreyD said:

To what extent can truth be known?
No. That is not part of the OP. I'm not sure where you read that.
The OP refers only to the truth Jesus refers to. John 17:17

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The full scope of the philosophical question is not restricted by your OP.

CoreyD said:

Sorry. In trying to simplify what, to my mind was a simple question, I may have complicated it.
So, someone asks you how does one determine what is the truth? I left out "the". Pardon me.
How would you answer the question.

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It's not a missing "the", it's the wheel that is created. If you don't know what the truth is, nor the appropriate method for making the identification, how do you go about answering either question?

CoreyD said:

The body of the OP does not focus on a Christian having the truth, but rather, persons who did not have the truth, finding it... and how. is circular?
Do you mind saying how it's circular?

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The circularity is in the claimed act of finding it, particularly in the context of John 17:17. It seems you're not asking a question for the sake of exploration, but to launch off into pontification.

johansen said:

50% increase in actual miss carriage rate. from 9 to 13 out of 100.

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Here is the thing:
That tenfold increase in death for unvaccinated people is a far bigger loss.

Those millions of deaths and lack of those specific persons born on earth may appear to increase the overall state of health of the whole earth, on a short term timeline.

This is where the lives saved vaccines becomes critical as well on a long enough time line.
You need to think 40,000 years from now.
What impact will there be of all those people who survived?

You won't be there to witness it. But you will be judged later.