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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Whose groceries are more Expensive?

Trump administration says immigration enforcement threatens higher food prices



In an unusual acknowledgment, the Labor Department said that tougher immigration enforcement is hurting farmers and the food supply






The Labor Department warned in an obscure document filed with the Federal Register last week that “the near total cessation of the inflow of illegal aliens” is threatening “the stability of domestic food production and prices for U.S. consumers.”



“Unless the Department acts immediately to provide a source of stable and lawful labor, this threat will grow,” with increased funding for immigration enforcement from the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, the Labor Department said in the Federal Register, which is the place where all proposed rules are recorded for the public to view and comment.



Also, contradicting comments made by Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins that the U.S. farm workforce will become “100 percent American” as a result of mass deportations, the Labor Department noted that Americans are not willing to step into farm work and lack the skills to fill agricultural jobs that undocumented immigrants are abandoning.
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Why do people hate ICE...

Basically there are two main positions on Immigration law. Those who want safety and secuirty of borders but also law and order in society. Then there are the radical Marxist ideologues who want open borders and defund the police as they believe there should be no borders and law and order is oppression.
This could be the most stupid thing ive read in at least a few days.

Your characterization seems so utterly bereft of reality it's like you didn't even need to think when you posted this at all.


Honestly do you want to have a discussion based on reality or is this juat gonna be some Trump repeating drivel?

Because intelligent people won't be interested in that.
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Average consumer now carries $6,329 in credit card debt. 'People are stretched,' expert says

Buffett's argument is that you can use that money to buy stocks
How is that market crash coming along?

There was another time in a month of September that the market took a dive on a Friday, then crashed the following Tuesday. It will be interesting to see what happens on Tuesday.
The Chinese are dumping them.
and farmland which actually produce profits and have intrinsic value.
You can buy that with gold too.

However I think that metals will continue to appreciate at a fast pace; and I believe that real estate is in a huge bubble that is fit to burst soon.

I believe that those who are holding large quantities of gold and silver will be in a very good position when that which is undervalued, and that which is overvalued, flip.
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Another look at the moon landing.

There is absolutely no evidence of a mass (in the millions) deception. There is no testimony under oath that NASA faked the lunar landings. The proof though is absolute that they indeed landed in the moon. The telemetry signal from the Apollo missions was not encrypted so thousands of scientists and amateurs alike were tracking the mission Including the Russians. We are talking about a global network of independent observers. All of these track a signal coming from the moon not a signal coming from earth. This would have been easy to determine.

Secondly, crossing the Van Allen Belt takes 53 minutes not 6 hours. The Apollo astronauts crossed it at ballistic speeds, with shielding, and at the weaker, upper portion. All crewed missions from Apollo 8 to Apollo 17 crossed the Van Allen belt.
There is plenty of third party evidence for the Apollo missions to the moon.


There is also a wealth of evidence from amateur astronomers who tracked the missions with there telescopes from all over the globe.

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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

Because your questions are red herrings. You claimed the researchers did not measure these vases in 3D and they did. You are finding faults that are not there.
The opening sentence of long your winded rant is a perfect example of my analogy in operation.

It was explained to you using your own video as a reference there are two types of software in operation, the native software of the scanner which does the 3D calculations such as generating the 3D mesh and the downloadable metrology package Blender 4.4.2 where the 3D parameters saved by the scanner as a STL file is opened.
As video shows the vase is manipulated in Blender which is a 3D operation to make sure it perpendicular to a horizontal plane.
The measurement for each circular slice however is a 2D operation and the subsequent calculations for circularity and concentricity are examples of 2D Euclidean geometry.

As you continually demonstrate of not having the capacity of grasping basic concepts like this, the end result is the creation of a fairy tale of 3D measurements being made.
Not only are you blissfully unaware the faults are in your reasoning not theirs, but you are doing a disservice to Karoyl and the others by grotesquely misrepresenting the video. If you don’t believe me send an E-mail to Karoyl asking him whether he is doing 2D or 3D calculations for concentricity and circularity.
Don’t get the idea I am now approving the video, the flaws are still there which you did not understand, you have made a suspect video at best look outright bad.

The rest of your post follows the same theme which can be explained by the analogy.
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

No, that isn't what's going on here. You have adopted a popular ancient religious philosophy, promoted by this world's religious system for centuries, that men are born with an immortal soul/spirit. To justify this philosophy, men engage in the same tactics satan used on Eve to deceive. God shows men this from the very beginning so that those who are seeking His Wisdom, will understand the dangers of listening to "other voices" concerning His Creation. They carefully select certain sentences from God's Holy Inspired Scriptures, then they separate this verse from all the rest of the bible, then twist the meaning of the verse to defend, justify and promote the adopted philosophy. "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? They do this because if ALL of God's Words concerning any topic, like eternal life, death, resurrections, tree of life, etc., are considered, this philosophy can not stand.

What I posted were relevant verses which speak directly to the very core of our discussion, verses you omitted.

The verses you omit from your sermons concerning immortality, do not destroy any Words of God, and I do not use them for that purpose. When considered, the verses you omit concerning this topic more clearly define God's Teaching to us regarding the topic. When all of God's Word concerning immortality, tree of life, death, life and resurrection are considered, it is clear that men are not born with an immortal spirit/soul/body etc. It is a gift from God some men will receive. This was difficult for me to accept given the religion of my fathers teach that I was born with the gift of immortality, same as you believe, and I believed it for a long time. My pride and self exaltation stood in the way of accepting God's Truth, not wanting to be humbled and/or corrected. This too is addressed in the Holy Scriptures for those seeking the Truth and Wisdom of God. It is a common evil among men.

You said, "I asked you to explain why you don't believe what God said about death, in the verses I referenced

I will not engage in the popular religious tactic you employ, of selecting a few verses from the bible, separating them from the rest of God's Word, then creating or promoting doctrines, that can't stand if "Every Word of God" is considered.

You and I have both sinned, and we will both die. "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

The only reason why we are here talking to each other today, and not dead and buried, is because of God's Long Suffering and desire that we might repent and turn to Him through His Son while we are still alive. So that we might "Yield ourself" a servant to obey God for the rest of this life, as Jesus Himself teaches, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. That we might "put forth our hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

From the very beginning, the prince of this world has convinced men that they "shall surely not die". My hope is that men stop listening to all the "other voices" in the world He placed us in, "that profess to know God", and place our trust instead, on the Holy scriptures that are trustworthy
"for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Not just "some" of the Words of God, while "omitting" others, as the mainstream religions of this world promote, but as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches, "Every Word" which proceeds from the mouth of God.

That is still my hope.

You are here to promote a popular religious philosophy that you are already immortal and will "surely not die". That you will live forever in one capacity or another. The Holy Scriptures, when all of them are considered, do not support this popular philosophy as the my posts clearly show.

Thanks for the discussion, such as it were. These issues are good for men to engage in, not just for us, but for those reading along as well, in my view.
I haven't adopted any ancient philosophy, but I have been adopted by God, so I'm a member of His Body. As such I am also indwelt by the Holy Spirit, who keeps me from being deceived by the doctrine of Demons.

It's impossible to deceive those of us who are led by the Holy Spirit, because He leads us in to all truth and teaches us everything that the Lord Jesus taught.

It's interesting how you accuse me of promoting a man made religious system, and you say it's not consistent with what the Bible teaches. Then you refuse to discuss the verses I referenced, claiming that I have have taken them out of context, but you didn't specify or identify any of my supposed errors.

I have asked you over and over again to either accept or deny the fact that the Bible describes "death" in various ways and contexts. The verses described different types of "death", and none of them support your religious denominational views.
I get the sense that you refuse to deal with the scriptures I quoted, because you denomination avoids those verses because they expose your doctrinal views as unbiblical and they are instead based on the opinions of fallen men.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

You think that death is something that happens at the end of a sinners life, but the Bible refutes your opinion, in ---

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Here Paul is speaking to believers, "born again Christians" (who are not dead anymore), they have been born again. So they were dead and then God made them alive, but according to your opinion Paul must have been drunk or delusional speaking such nonsense.

The Lord Jesus Himself confirms mans "dead in sin state" by saying that evil come out of a man, so it's not his environment, neither is it that he fell into a bad crowd and they corrupted him. No he is already dead in his sin and there is no good in him at all.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

Why does evil come from within a man?, is it as you claim he choses to exercise his free will to do evil, or is it because he was born spiritually dead, with a sin nature inherited from Adam.

There are 7 different types of death mentioned in the Bible, I'll just mention the main 4 below. I hope you don't just reject them out of hand, if they oppose your religious bias.

Physical Death: The separation of the body from the soul or spirit. This is the death that happens to everyone due to the fallen nature of humanity.

Spiritual Death: A state of separation from God caused by sin, affecting the unsaved from birth. It is often described as being "dead in sin".

Positional Death: A term used to describe the believer's state in Christ, where they are considered "dead to sin" and "alive to God" through their faith.

Eternal Death: Also known as the "second death," this is the final and everlasting separation from God in hell, which is the ultimate punishment for sin.


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Men now surpass women in church attendance, especially among Gen X, millennials: Barna

That doesn’t mean they’re fornicating and I didn‘t get into that. Just because a woman is single doesn’t mean she‘s having relations. I was abstinent for years before I returned to the Lord and my tenure is extensive. Everyone isn’t ruled by their loins.

~bella
So yes you are saying celibacy. Not everyone wants to go without having children, either.
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Pepper Sprayed While Evangelizing

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What does debating abortion have to do with telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.


The back of my truck tells people every time i drive it, how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life


View attachment 370734
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Only three likes on a christian site for the message of Life. That shows how warped christianity is in understanding how to tell people how to have God's free gift of Eternal Life.
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The Schumer Shutdown

Is there something in the US Constitution that prevents joint partnerships between the Feds and States? Australia runs our government owned and operated health system in the following way - designed to maximise efficiency and NOT take advantage of a government 'blank cheque' that the more right-wing friends here might worry about.

While states are responsible for running hospitals, the federal government shares responsibility for paying for them. The federal government also has the primary responsibility for keeping people out of hospital – through the primary care system, which includes general practice...​

... (some irrelevant history)...​

...Hospitals are paid for each procedure​

Since 2011, the federal contribution to public hospitals has been based on the number and type of patients treated. This is known as activity-based funding.​
All states and territories measure hospital activity by case “type”, weighted to reflect the complexity of a hospital’s activity. A lung transplant, for example, has a higher value than resolving an ingrown toenail.​
The idea of measuring hospital activity and even using this as a basis for funding is not new. What was new in 2011 was using activity-based funding to determine the federal contribution.​
Since 2011, the federal government pays 45% of the growth in the cost of delivering hospital services each year. This means the federal government’s annual increase in contribution can reflect both additional costs and activity.​
State and territory governments are responsible for the remaining costs.​
Since 2017-18, the growth in federal government expenditure has been limited to 6.5% each year. So even if a hospital performs many more procedures than the previous year, the federal government caps its annual expenditure growth at 6.5% more than the previous year.​

Funding also encourages efficiency​

Activity is one component of hospital funding, the other is the price paid for each unit of activity. The basis for this is the “nationally efficient price”.​
The Independent Hospital Pricing Authority determines this price, based on its analysis of actual costs and assessment of unavoidable and legitimate variations in costs. For example, the 2022-23 efficient price for a hip replacement was deemed to be A$19,798.​
This means the price is the same across Australia. Adjustments are made for patients from rural and remote areas, and for Indigenous patients. Sicker patients or those with multiple underlying conditions will fall into a different case type, with a higher price.​
This provides a benchmark for comparing hospital efficiency as well as the level of funding the hospital will receive.​

The goal is to treat more patients but keep costs constrained​

The hospital funding system is designed to address efficiency by providing incentives to increase output, while constraining the growth in costs.​
Since 2011, we’ve seen a substantial reduction in the rate of increase in costs, with an overall growth rate of 2.1%.​
Annual growth in costs (per national weighted activity unit):

You can't understand our current healthcare system without understanding our past. There have been times in the past where people have proposed universal healthcare, and each time opposition from those who didn't want EVERYONE to have healthcare prevailed.

Today they are screaming about immigrants getting something they dont "deserve", in the past it was Black people.

Its not like the need has not been known or studied. When slaves were first freed there were many malnourished, with wounds and untreated injuries. There was a Freedmans Bureau established which tried to assist with health care. In fact, today's Howard University Hospital has its origins there. Black people were not allowed to get care at existing (white) hospitals so there were schools and hospitals set up to educate and serve Black people. Our hospitals have only been desegregated since the mid to late 60s, and it's only because they could not get Medicare funding if they didn't accept Black patients.

There have been dozens of studies showing universal health care would reduce health disparities between Black and White Americans. Not everyone wants that.

If it were a straightforward good faith effort to help all Americans, then it would make sense to follow the lead of other countries. However, our issue has a racial undercurrent to it, plus the profit aspect that trumps logic.
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