ralliann said:

I consider Terrorists, as terrorists, gang members, as gang members. As for the rest, we got rid of slave labor a long time ago. Now it appears it's back up for grabs.

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Well. certainly no one wants them here as exploitable illegals.

BPPLEE said:

No, he said a path to citizenship.
Then they can vote.
That's what this is really all about

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Sure it is. But if so, you ought to be pleased with it. Most of these immigrants are social conservatives and might well vote Republican if you treated them decently.

o_mlly said:

So the claim that all living things have a common ancestor is not supported by a lack of evidence in the commonalty of genomes.

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This sentence doesn't make sense.

o_mlly said:

That is exactly the problem. You don't have evidence that common genomes evidence that all living things have a common ancestor. It's an unwarranted assumption.

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Yes we do. Just because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Evolutionary biologists and geneticists aren't stupid.

o_mlly said:

It makes a difference to a scientist named Dr. James Tour.

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Dr. Tour is a chemist who doesn't present his arguments about evolution in biology, evolutionary biology, or genetics arenas. He is doing nothing more than expressing his personal opinions in YT videos and at church groups.

o_mlly said:

Of course. But your intention is not under examination, only your verifiable evidence.

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I'm not here to make a scientific case for evolution or common ancestry. This is not the proper venue for that; it's a religious forum.

o_mlly said:

And I understand you do believe in common ancestry. That also your opinion.

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And the shared conclusion of effectively all relevant scientists, scientific organizations, university science programs, biotech firms, etc.

o_mlly said:

Yes.

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And what is your explanation for why Dr. Tour inaccurately described the subject?

o_mlly said:

Did you not watch the entire video? He is, as I am, asking for your verifiable, high confidence evidence that supports your claims.

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See above. If you want to debate science I suggest you seek out an actual science forum and not try and do so in a specifically religious forum.

I've honestly never even heard of this before. What a wild ride that was just reading it! lol Thanks for posting

Platte said:

Show me the best evidence for macro evolution.

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No, let's first deal with the claim you made: "Macro Evolution is not something we discovered...we made it up - and then looked for evidence to support it." That's a positive claim, and for you to make it implies that you're familiar with possible evidence for macroevolution and have reasons to reject it. Are you? What was your grounds for making that statement?

Landon Caeli said:

Here, I want to put kids to work. 7th and 8th graders, as well as high school kids.

I was just referencing the women workers during the world wars as an example of American tradition, and why hiring kids isn't outside of normal.

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Yep, I lived where there were crops grown, and the kids would come to make money. They came in bus loads provided by the two large growers.

CoreyD said:

Those are some really good scriptures, and points you made.
Acts 1:8 especially, shows the role of the holy spirit, in preaching urgently, and speaking boldly.

I'm reminded of the situation described for us at Acts 5.
The disciples were on fire with zeal, and 'large numbers of men and women, were being added to their number (Acts 5:14)'.
This annoyed some... chiefly, the religious leaders.
They grabbled the apostles and imprisoned them (Acts 5:17, 18).
God said, 'Really.' Sent an angel to release them, with these words...
“Go, stand and speak to the people in the temple area the whole message of this Life.”
At this, the apostles entered into the temple area about daybreak and began to teach (Acts 5:19-21).

The religious leaders grabbled them against... this time, a little less forcefully, since they were afraid the people would stone them, and they had them stand before the Council. The high priest interrogated them, saying,

“We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this Man’s blood upon us.” ​

Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:27-29)

Had Gamaliel not intervened... no doubt, by God's spirit, the apostles would be dead men, right there and then (Acts 5:33, 34), because they gave a bold witness to people who were telling them to keep quiet about the things they were teaching.
The account ends with these words...
Acts 5:40-42
40 They followed his [Gamaliel] advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and then released them. 41 So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name. 42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not stop teaching and preaching the good news of Jesus as the Christ.

Not only did the holy spirit infuse in them courage and zeal, but it also protected them from death... which they were willing to face, like Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah.
God's people need holy spirit to preach... among other things.

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Here is a quick study on the Holy Spirit. Many who read this will hopefully see that one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, we were given the HS was so that we would speak. This is well worth the read.

In Acts, whenever people received the Holy Spirit, their mouths were opened. At Pentecost, ‘they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak. This even happened in the very first instance when the Holy Spirit first came down. (Acts 2:4). Later, ‘when they had prayed, the place was shaken…and they spoke the word of God with boldness’ (Acts 4:31). In Cornelius’ house, ‘the Holy Spirit fell on all those who heard the word…for they heard them speaking in tongues and magnifying God’ (Acts 10:44–46). Again and again, the Spirit fills, and people speak.

And in John 14:16 it says “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;”(KJV). In this verse, the Spirit is called the “Comforter”. But in 1611, when the King James bible was written, the word ‘comfort’ did not mean to soothe but to strengthen, to urge on. In a famous tapestry from 1070AD, it shows Bishop Odo with a staff, urging his men into battle. The Latin says ‘confortat pueros’, meaning, he strengthens the boys, prodding them into action. That’s what the Spirit does in us. He strengthens us, empowers us, and pushes us into the battle.
“Expel the wicked person from among you.” (St Paul)

Acts 1:8 connects directly to the role of the Holy Spirit as the Comforter/prodder by showing that His work is not about inner peace but about empowerment for mission:
"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
The word “power” in Greek is “dynamis”, meaning strength, force, ability.
So when we receive the Holy Spirit, we will witness to others of Him. We will have a power within us that pushes/prods us and strengthens us for the battle. When He fills us, silence is no longer natural; witnessing becomes the overflow.

Many times, in the New Testament, people received the Holy Spirit, and they opened their mouths. And some who received the Spirit spoke so clearly that people from other nations understood them in their own language (Acts 2:1-13).

Verses where people received the Holy Spirit and they spoke:
Matthew 10:19–20
Mark 13:11
Luke 1:41–42
Luke 1:67
Luke 2:25–32
Luke 12:11–12
Luke 21:14–15
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:4
Acts 2:14–18
Acts 4:8
Acts 4:31
Acts 6:10
Acts 7:55–56
Acts 8:29–35
Acts 9:17–20
Acts 10:19–20
Acts 10:44–46
Acts 11:12
Acts 11:15
Acts 13:9–10
Acts 13:52
Acts 19:6
Acts 21:9
Acts 21:10–11
Romans 8:14
Romans 10:14–15
2 Corinthians 5:17–20
Ephesians 6:18–20
1 Corinthians 12:7–10
1 Corinthians 14:1–5
1 Corinthians 14:26–33
1 Peter 3:15
Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22

NOTE: You will also notice that some verses say something along the lines of "And they received the Holy Spirit, and they prophesied". Now, God does give some people a direct revelation to pass on to others, but many of the cases in the New Testament where it talks about prophesying, I believe that it is actually talking about going and sharing the Good News. These people are giving a testimony of Jesus. A testimony about what He did and His future judgment (future being prophecy). That He lived and He died, He rose again and paid the price for our sins, and that one day He will judge the world in righteousness. Revelation 19:10 even says that when we give a testimony of Jesus, telling the Good News, we are prophesying or walking in the heart of prophecy.
Revelation 19:10 "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Repent of your sin.
“Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ” Acts 2:38.
In this verse, it says to receive the Holy Spirit, the very first step we need to do is, repent. That is to change from our unbelief to belief and so change from living sinfully to a way where we are honouring God.
We also have this verse that says the same thing: “We are witnesses... and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” Acts 5:32

End Note: I do not believe that everyone is called to be a street preacher. But I do believe that everyone is called to preach the Gospel to as many people as they can. Whether that is in the workplace, schools or in your own friendship group. We are all called to share, and we should have a prodding desire to share.

The study is not properly completed as I am heading away. But the contents should interest and challenge many.

wing2000 said:

The Labor Department warned in an obscure document filed with the Federal Register last week that “the near total cessation of the inflow of illegal aliens” is threatening “the stability of domestic food production and prices for U.S. consumers.”

Also, contradicting comments made by Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins that the U.S. farm workforce will become “100 percent American” as an effect of mass deportations, the Labor Department noted that Americans are not willing to step into farm work and lack the skills to fill agricultural jobs that undocumented immigrants are abandoning.

“The Department concludes that qualified and eligible U.S. workers will not make themselves available in sufficient numbers,” the agency said.

Doc:
"...the Department concludes, based on all available evidence and studies, that immediate reform to the H-2A program's minimum wage policy, or the AEWRs, is necessary to avoid imminent widespread disruption across the U.S. agricultural sector. Without prompt action, agricultural employers will face severe labor shortages, resulting in disruption to food production, higher prices, and reduced access for U.S. consumers, particularly to fresh fruit and vegetables. Further, the Department concludes that qualified and eligible U.S. workers will not make themselves available in sufficient numbers, even at current wage levels, to fill the significant labor shortage in the agricultural sector. As discussed in detail below, the reforms contained in this IFR of the H-2A program's wage policy are urgently needed to restore the usability of the H-2A program and to provide a practical, lawful workforce alternative to illegal aliens. These changes ensure that agricultural employers offer fair wages to legally authorized workers—consistent with wages paid in comparable farm and non-farm jobs—while maintaining compliance with immigration law and supporting the stability of the nation's food supply.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/10/11/immigration-crackdown-food-prices/

Imagine that? Americans are unwilling to harvest their own food.

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They should not bring children in to work. Especially with child molesters on pot farms.

Soyeong said:

The issue of what type of contract the Mosaic Covenant is is independent of the issue of who it is made with.

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I don’t agree. Every contract is for a number of terms for a distinct person or group. The Mosaic covenant was given to Moses to give to Israel. The covenant for the Christian church is the new covenant of blood depicted in Luke 22:20.

Soyeong said:

For example, God said that he was a husband to Israel (Jeremiah 31:32) and Israel's unfaithfulness was described as adultery, with eventually got so bad that God wrote the Northern Kingdom a write of divorce (Jeremiah 3:8).

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Nothing here about the Mosaic covenant being like a marriage contract. It was a covenant between God and Israel which included the 613 laws and commandments.

Soyeong said:

That is not what Jesus stated. A sum is inclusive of all of its parts and the reason why the greatest two commandments are the greatest two is because they are inclusive of all of the other commandments. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, favoritism, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of God's other commandments. The greatest two commandments as much easier said than done, so thankfully God graciously gave us the rest of His commandments in order to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of God's other commandments because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow.

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When, we are going to disagree because that is what Jesus stated. The summary of the law into two changes the laws that are being summarized to the extend that they no longer apply. Keeping the Mosaic law was impossible. Only Jesus was able to keep it perfectly. The redeeming sacrifice of Christ fulfilled the terms of the old covenant fully.

“When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

He has “made obsolete” παλαιόω which translates to worn out, decay, declare obsolete. If the old is declared obsolete it means that all the terms of the old covenant are by default obsolete.

Soyeong said:

The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in this world, which is in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of God's law, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, which is in accordance with Gentiles becoming doers of God's law.

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Actually no. Israel is no longer part of the tree. They were cut off in favor of the gentiles (Romans 11).

In addition the gentiles did attain righteousness by faith which is something that Israel could not do because the law is not of faith.

“What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭30‬-‭32‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Israel is not the church.

Soyeong said:

In Psalms 119:29-30, it describes the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, so the salvation formula did not change. Salvation was never earned as the result of our obedience to God's law, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation.

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Agree. But the “doing” does not include the law for the Christian. The Christian by the grace of God through faith without works is made into Christ’s workmanship and does the works prepared in advance for us to do (Eph. 2:8-10). The works of the law is not the works prepared in advance for the Christian to do.

Soyeong said:

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by being a doer of God's law, which is what Titus 2:11-13 describes.

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“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and in a godly manner in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, eager for good deeds.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2‬:‭11‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You should have included verse 14. Christ redeemed us from every lawless deed. No need for the law. Justification is a very powerful act. G.E Ladd once said that “the root idea in justification is the declaration of God, the righteous judge, that the man who believes in Christ, sinful though he may be, is righteous—is viewed as being righteous, because in Christ he has come into a righteous relationship with God.”

I’m in total agreement with Ladd. Even after being justified it is impossible to stop sinning hence repentance. Repentance should be a daily or very frequent activity. It is true that those with saving faith sin much less than before and are also working in partnership with the Holy Spirit in their lifelong sanctification.

The first problem with the law is that it does not justify. The second is that is not suggested as part of sanctification anywhere in the New Testament. Nowhere does it say follow the law. In fact Paul calls it weak (Rom. 8), call it a curse and explains what happens if one tries to follow it. Christ redeemed us from the law so no reason to return to what Christ redeemed us from.

“Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭11‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Soyeong said:

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to experience driving it. Similarly, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3), and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, which we are intrinsically required to follow. God's law is His instructions for equipping us to do every good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

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I have no desire to test drive a Ferrari. I would equate the law with an Edsel or something similar.

“All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Nothing here about following the law. All scripture is indeed necessary. The OT including the law is Christological in nature. It shows us the need for a savior so Paul is indeed right.

Soyeong said:

The Psalms are the OT book that is most quoted by the NT, so the authors of the NT certainly considered it to be applicable to the Christian church.

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As far as poetry and other teachings. I read them but I don’t use them for Christian doctrine. They do contain some great teachings.

Soyeong said:

According to Deuteronomy 27-30, the way to be blessed is by relying on the Book of the Law while the way to be cursed is by not relying on it, so Galatians 3:10 should not be interpreted as Paul quoting from that passage in order to support a point that is arguing the opposite of that passage. Rather, the way to be cursed is by not continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law, which is why everyone who relies on "works of the law" instead come under that curse. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted the Book of the law with "works of the law" and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he said that our faith upholds the Law of God in contrast with saying that "work of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to the Law of God, which is why it is not of faith.

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Yes. I’ve heard this argument before and it really does not hold water in light of the rest of the New Testament. Paul is indeed calling the law a curse literally and Christ literally redeemed us from the curse. Paul calls it weak in Rom. 8 and overall teaches that the Christian is not under the law and does not want to be under the law.

Soyeong said:

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Law of God shall live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of God. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, and in 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God is righteous even as they are righteous, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to an alternative manner of living that is not in obedience to God.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions, it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for salvation but in in His instructions, and the position that God is a giver us untrustworthy instructions that are not of faith is a position that denies the trustworthiness and faithfulness of God.

In Deuteronomy 28, it describes the blessing of the law for lawfulness and the curse of the law for lawlessness, so being set free from the curse of the law is being set free from lawlessness in order to enjoy the blessing of lawfulness. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the Law of God but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness.

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Sorry but the rest of this wall of text is quite the repetition of the argument that I have already responded to. In short, following the law does not add to Jesus sacrifice. In fact it takes away from His sacrifice and power. Jesus sacrifice is plenty powerful to take care of each individual believer’s sins and testify before the Father that each one of His followers are righteous. The law for the Christian is finished but remains to the people of Israel.

Also the combination of your quoted post and my response exceeded the 1800 character limit so I cut some of your quoted post in order to post this reply. We can always go back to your original post if we have to.

Delvianna said:

I'm not arguing what is salvation, I'm just trying to show that depending on denomination, they each have requirements of what salvation is. Talk to a baptist and they'll say 1 thing, talk to a catholic and they'll say another, talk to a Pentecostal and they'll say another. So if the answer of salvation is based on which denomination you go to, that can't be strength.

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So many add so many things! By the time one wades through all those man made laws, like the Jews of the Apostles time, God cannot get a blessing in their edgewise! I would let all those man made laws pass from my mind and grasp a hold of faith in Christ alone!

He came to Brisbane last year and photographed 5,500 people nude on the Story Bridge. It was a fun and liberating experience, and he sent everyone a 10x8" photo of the event. I've posted it on the wall in my living room area in my flat.

rockytopva said:

John Bunyan was an uneducated tinker. His dad worked with brass, took John out of basic kindergarten, and then put him to work. John Bunyan would serve in the military where he would call himself, "The chiefest of sinners" and go on and write a book called Grace Abounding to the Chiefest of Sinners. His Pilgrims Progress outsold all other book save the Bible.

What made the difference? What made the turnaround? It was this simple thought by Martin Luther... Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law. He reported this to the disciples at Antioch. Among the disciples were some that had been brought up in the ancient customs of the Jews. These rose against Paul in quick indignation, accusing him of propagating a gospel of lawlessness. Great dissension followed. Paul and Barnabas stood up for the truth. They testified: "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word. This happened everywhere. We preached not circumcision, we did not require observance of the Law. We preached faith in Jesus Christ. At our preaching of faith, God gave to the hearers the Holy Ghost." From this fact Paul and Barnabas inferred that the Holy Ghost approved the faith of the Gentiles without the Law and circumcision. If the faith of the Gentiles had not pleased the Holy Ghost, He would not have manifested His presence in the uncircumcised hearers of the Word. - Penelope: Or Love’s Labour Lost, vol. 3 | Project Gutenberg (Martin Luther's commentary on the Book of Galatians Chapter 2)

Especially... "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word." And what was that simple little thought? "Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law."

In studying Paul he would not even Baptize... "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" - 1 Corinthians 1:14... and his main focus was... For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:2

So.... Simple faith in Christ will do! Whatever it is! Healing, Salvation, the Holy Ghost... Simple faith in Christ will do!

Question... I did not speak in tongues?
Answer... Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

Simple faith in Christ is enough! Simple faith in Christ will do! Are you still broken? Well... In the hallmark of faith... Out of weakness were made strong. - Hebrews 11:34

We will believe in the possibilities of being strong... Especially when we are weak and broken.

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I'm not arguing what is salvation, I'm just trying to show that depending on denomination, they each have requirements of what salvation is. Talk to a baptist and they'll say 1 thing, talk to a catholic and they'll say another, talk to a Pentecostal and they'll say another. So if the answer of salvation is based on which denomination you go to, that can't be strength.

Richard T said:

I still think the plan might be purposed to depress land prices so much that the hedge funds can buy the farms on the cheap. This is consistent with what happened in other sectors of real estate.

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Farm land is already dirt cheap. Even the people who own the land outright have a tough go of making it profitable.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

I also believe that individuals should not enter the United States without appropriate documentation. It is my understanding that most Americans share this perspective. Only a small minority in the country support open borders and unrestricted immigration.

Would you categorize an individual who has spent the past 20 years picking tomatoes or cleaning motel rooms as a terrorist or gang member?

If these minimum wage workers are present without proper documentation and their removal from the country for violating legal requirements is desired, please specify this position clearly. But we must stop labeling every immigrants as "terrorists" or "gang members" because we want all of them gone.

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I consider Terrorists, as terrorists, gang members, as gang members. As for the rest, we got rid of slave labor a long time ago. Now it appears it's back up for grabs.

Colo Millz said:

Incidentally I loved The Exorcist.

There's nothing more Catholic than a good old Satanic horror movie and in that particular film the priests are the heros, of course.

The scene in that movie that bugged everyone out wasn't the final exorcism scenes but the spinal tap scene.

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I happened to be with a Catholic friend when we watched The Exorcist in the theater when it opened. He gave me a play-by-play that cleared up a lot of the context for me.

Delvianna said:

thank you for expanding on your point that's a good verse, but isn't brokenness in response to our personal heart with God and not the theological brokenness of split doctrine and denominations?

For instance, If I went and told someone that obedience is necessary for God in order for you to enter into his kingdom, and someone else comes up and says its not and someone else comes and says it is but you need to add baptism to that and someone else comes up and says you need to also add speaking in tongues and everyone disagrees with each other, how can we be strong with that? The person standing there would look like we've all gone mad and have no idea who is right and how to reach heaven.

Click to expand...

John Bunyan was an uneducated tinker. His dad worked with brass, took John out of basic kindergarten, and then put him to work. John Bunyan would serve in the military where he would call himself, "The chiefest of sinners" and go on and write a book called Grace Abounding to the Chiefest of Sinners. His Pilgrims Progress outsold all other book save the Bible.

What made the difference? What made the turnaround? It was this simple thought by Martin Luther... Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law. He reported this to the disciples at Antioch. Among the disciples were some that had been brought up in the ancient customs of the Jews. These rose against Paul in quick indignation, accusing him of propagating a gospel of lawlessness. Great dissension followed. Paul and Barnabas stood up for the truth. They testified: "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word. This happened everywhere. We preached not circumcision, we did not require observance of the Law. We preached faith in Jesus Christ. At our preaching of faith, God gave to the hearers the Holy Ghost." From this fact Paul and Barnabas inferred that the Holy Ghost approved the faith of the Gentiles without the Law and circumcision. If the faith of the Gentiles had not pleased the Holy Ghost, He would not have manifested His presence in the uncircumcised hearers of the Word. - Penelope: Or Love’s Labour Lost, vol. 3 | Project Gutenberg (Martin Luther's commentary on the Book of Galatians Chapter 2)

Especially... "Wherever we preached to the Gentiles, the Holy Ghost came upon those who received the Word." And what was that simple little thought? "Paul taught justification by faith in Christ Jesus, without the deeds of the Law."

In studying Paul he would not even Baptize... "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" - 1 Corinthians 1:14... and his main focus was... For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. - 1 Corinthians 2:2

So.... Simple faith in Christ will do! Whatever it is! Healing, Salvation, the Holy Ghost... Simple faith in Christ will do!

Question... I did not speak in tongues?
Answer... Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? - 1 Corinthians 12:30

Simple faith in Christ is enough! Simple faith in Christ will do! Are you still broken? Well... In the hallmark of faith... Out of weakness were made strong. - Hebrews 11:34

We will believe in the possibilities of being strong... Especially when we are weak and broken.

That claim is not true as presented. It mixes real experimental science with speculative or false extrapolations. Below is a breakdown of what is real, what is speculative, and what is false or highly misleading:

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What is real / partially real​

1. Quantum-dot “tattoo” via microneedle patches has been studied in lab settings
   Researchers have developed a method to embed near-infrared quantum dots (NIR QDs) under the skin using dissolvable microneedle patches. These dots are invisible to the naked eye but detectable by specialized imaging (e.g. an adapted smartphone) in near-infrared wavelengths. OSTI+4PMC+4STAT+4
   In their study, the quantum dot patterns remained detectable for at least 9 months in rats, and the dots did not degrade under simulated sunlight exposure over time. PubMed+2PMC+2
   The authors explicitly propose this as a way to “encode medical history on a patient,” for example to record vaccination history. PubMed+2STAT+2
2. Funding and research into microneedle patches (including for mRNA delivery) is ongoing
   The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has awarded grants to support microneedle patch technologies, including patches designed to deliver vaccines (including potentially mRNA formulations) and to improve thermostability (i.e., reduce cold-chain requirements). Gates Foundation+4Gates Foundation+4Reuters+4
   For example, LTS — a company that works on microneedle array patches — received a $1.2 million grant to develop thermostable mRNA formulations for microneedle patches. LTS+1
   Also, UConn researchers (with Gates funding) are developing microneedle array patches capable of delivering multiple vaccines. UConn Today+1

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What is speculative or unproven​

1. mRNA delivery using microneedle patches
   While preclinical research suggests it may be possible to adapt microneedle patches to deliver mRNA-based vaccines (or vaccines that use nucleic acids) with improved stability, these are still in development phases, not in large-scale human deployment. Medical Device Network+2LTS+2
   The idea is promising, especially for increasing vaccine access in low-resource settings, but translation to safe, approved human-use products is a long process.
2. Permanent “marking” under the skin
   In the experiments, the quantum dots are designed to remain in place for extended periods (months) so the pattern can still be read. But "permanent" is an exaggeration; degradation, immune response, or shifting over years are unknowns. The researchers do not claim it as a permanent implant in humans, and they emphasize further safety testing is needed. Johns Hopkins University+3MIT News+3STAT+3
   The quantum dot pattern is effectively a “record” localized under the skin, but it does not contain personal identity information, geolocation, or tracking capability by itself. The researchers emphasize that it is an on-patient record (i.e. you must physically image it) rather than a remote tracking system. PMC+3STAT+3PubMed+3

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What is false or highly misleading in the original claim​

1. “Human testing has already begun”
   There is no credible evidence that quantum-dot tattooing via microneedle patches has entered human trials in any widespread or approved form. The published experiments are in animals (rats) or ex vivo human skin, not live human volunteers. Johns Hopkins University+3PubMed+3STAT+3
   The claim that “human testing has begun” is an assertion with no credible support in scientific literature or public regulatory records.
2. “They leave a permanent quantum dot marking under your skin”
   As noted, the word “permanent” is misleading. The experiments show long-term detectability in controlled settings, but long-term safety, stability, or irreversibility in humans is unproven.
3. “These patches could soon be required for entry into stores, gyms, travel, and more”
   There is no policy, regulation, or credible proposal anywhere that mandates such patches as a condition for access to everyday venues. That part is speculative, conspiratorial, or purely hypothetical fear mongering.
4. Implies a tracking / surveillance / “biological vaccine passport” function
   The scientific work under discussion is about storing a medical record on the patient in the skin, not enabling remote tracking or tying that record to a global digital identity system. Claims that this is a “vaccine passport” in the sense of forced control or surveillance go beyond what the published work proposes or supports. Fact-checkers have explicitly debunked similar conspiracy claims. FactCheck.org+2Africa Check+2
   For example, a claim that COVID-19 vaccines would leave an invisible quantum-dot mark to enforce immunity passports has been debunked. Africa Check+1

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Bottom line​

• The core idea — embedding a near-infrared quantum-dot “tattoo” under the skin via microneedle patches that can be scanned to record vaccination history — is real and has been demonstrated in lab/animal settings.
• But many details in the claim are false or unverified: human deployment, required usage for access to public life, permanent immutable marking, etc.
• There is no credible evidence of any such system being in human use or being mandated.

BCP1928 said:

Because even with work visas they would still be contaminating the purity of our cultural institutions.

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No, he said a path to citizenship.
Then they can vote.
That's what this is really all about

keras said:

I refuse to get any further involved in ancient events that we cannot prove.

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So why write as though it is a fact when you can't prove it and it is only a possibility?

I guess saying "case closed" absolves you from answering any awkward questions.

Gregory Thompson said:

Every other christian generation faced persecution and martyrdom, but my generation is special, the rules don't apply at all. God's totally gonna teleport us out of here like in some occult fantasy novel.

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I do believe in the rapture, I just don't believe we can know when it is. You might not, but please don't be rude and make fun of the idea that we do. If you want to debate it, I don't mind doing that, but making fun of a theological doctrine that a lot of people believe, isn't okay.

It this the "Lord's work"?


(RNS) — Last month, the Rev. David Black stood in front of a Chicago-area U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility and spread his arms wide. Adorned in all black and wearing a clerical collar, the pastor looked up at a group of masked, heavily armed ICE agents on the roof and began to pray.

“I invited them to repentance,” Black, a minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA), said in an interview. “I basically offered an altar call. I invited them to come and receive that salvation, and be part of the kingdom that is coming.”

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But when Black began to lower his arms a few seconds later, the agents responded to his spiritual plea by firing pepper balls, or chemical agents that cause eye irritation and respiratory distress, video footage shows. One struck Black in the head, exploding into a puff of white pepper smoke and forcing him to his knees. Fellow demonstrators rushed to his aid, and as the pastor rubbed his face in pain, the agents continued to fire.

Apple Sky said:

May be he has too by the signing of a wavier or a NDA form by NASA.

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"Maybe" isn't good enough. Especially as you watched his testimony which changed your life - albeit for a few weeks.
Why would he lie?

Natalie

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Point 1, good!

Point 2 doesn't necessarily follow. There is exactly none of us that are apart from God's Direct influences internally OR the influences of the adversary internally. Therefore freewill is, well, kind of nonsense. There are, scripturally, 3 wills in operation within mankind, which makes freewill a moot point.

Plus it's technically a Godless claim to start with. Man claiming God is not in them, in their will.

People only believe it so they have some basis to pat themselves on the back for making the right decisions to get into heaven. Sure ya did.

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Let me explain what I was thinking.
Freewill is our ability to make a choice that's all if their is no choice, like Calvinism teaches, their is no freewill.
Yes ultimately Gods plan will be done, I believe that its Gods will that none should perish but for all to come to the knowledge of the truth, Gods will must and will be done but within that will we are given choices to either follow Jesus now in our mortal body, which has the greatest reward or to choose him through purgation which has a loss of inheritance. These are real choices on our part but without choice we are merely robots.
God because he is outside of time knows what are choices will be, so he knows the beginning from the end, but we still have to make those choices and each has its own consequences but God does not make our choices for us as Calvinist think , does the Father help us and is he involved with our lives, yes he can do whatever he wants, but we are responsible for our actions.
I see this in the Romans letter that compares all humanity to a lump of clay some for noble use some for common, our choices are what make us either noble or common, but its our choice, even if the Father knows what choice we will make.
In the end the Father will be all in all, on the new heaven and a new earth.