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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

Does anyone know of of anyone with serious scientific credentials who argues for a flat Earth? I cannot envisage that any such person could exist. It's easy to see how the scientific illiterate could be deceived by simplistic arguments and emotional appeals, but a sane, practicing scientist would surely see the falsehoods. So I ask, am I mistaken in this? Is there a serious scientist out there arguing for Flat Earth? As I say I think the answer is no, but just doing due diligence.
I think you answered your own question pretty well. 've never heard of any actually scientist, anywhere, in the last few centuries, who subscibed to the "flat earth" silliness.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. (2 Th 1:9–10)​

"Everlasting destruction" sounds long-lasting to me.

I just watched a video on everlasting destruction. Basically, it means total destruction, not destruction (torment) that lasts forever. But I guess that is his opinion in the video below. I agree with it.

Does Eternal Fire Mean Eternal Torment? - YouTube [Length: 3:43min]
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More Americans are now reading the Bible but fewer believe it’s 100% accurate: study

I didn't believe because the bible says it. I believe because God's Spirit reveals it.

I believe what Gods Spirit reveals about scripture.

Because God's Spirit. I know that some things don't line up properly but that doesn't change the message.
To whom does God's spirit reveal? Is it you?
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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

Well, are the teachers in the OP conservative or liberal? You know, the ones who are grooming and indoctinating trans ideology onto their students?
You're just annoyed because they are not being groomed and indoctrinated into yours any more.
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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

View attachment 373847

Oh no - NASA is lying. :D

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Oh no - NASA is lying again. :D

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View attachment 373848

Oh no - NASA is lying again. :D
lol You tube is the holder of all absolute truth. If you tube says it’s true then by golly you better believe it. :doh: ;)
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UnitedHealthcare CEO fatally shot in midtown Manhattan, law enforcement official says

It doesn't take nerve to insist on one's Miranda rights and search warrants. Everybody has them.

Those rights should only be for law abiding citizens and not criminals.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

No matter what someone wishes to believe. The Bible is true. In all its statements on the subject

1. God is a "consuming fire" in Heb 12 rather than a fire "that does not consume'
2. John does not use the term hell for burning but rather the lake of fire. the apostle John never uses the term hell to mean place of torment or fire. Rather he uses the term "lake of fire"
3. Luke 12 says each person is punished according to deeds, some receive much punishment and some less. Very different from "infinite punishment for all"
4. Ezek 28 says that Satan "will be turned to ashes on the Earth, You will cease to be forever"


18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

5. Matt 10:28 says God totally destroys both soul and body in hell

6. Not one text says the wicked have eternal life. In Ezek 18 the wicked die and the righteous do not die.

7. In Rev 20 the wicked are "consumed" by fire that comes from God

8. Malachi 4:3 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.
Both the poor man and the rich man are very much alive. The rich man is suffering in hell.

The spirits in prison that Jesus made the proclamation during the time between the crucifixion and resurrection are alive not annihilated.

You are using symbolic language literally which is where you run into error.
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More Americans are now reading the Bible but fewer believe it’s 100% accurate: study

I want to know how you determine that Jesus is the Son of God.
I didn't believe because the bible says it. I believe because God's Spirit reveals it.
I assume you trust what is written in the Bible.
I believe what Gods Spirit reveals about scripture.
My question is, if you think some parts of the Bible might not be accurate, how can you be sure that the statement about Jesus being the Son of God is reliable?
Because God's Spirit. I know that some things don't line up properly but that doesn't change the message.
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Spending on Welfare is 'unchristian'

Not necessarily...

Raising the minimum wage of a stock clerk would raise the cost of labor, but that's not what I'm referring to.

Removing expensive barriers that would allow more stock clerks to have options to get into something else could actually do the opposite, it could potentially lower the cost of labor for certain jobs higher up the chain.

So for my previous example:

A firm needs a new accountant.

If they require a college degree, the salary demands are going to be artificially higher simply based on the Degree factor.

However, a "Mike" from my previous example who's willing to do a 1-year vocational internship for $35k, then get bumped to $55k full-time at the end" is more cost effective for a company than a college graduate who's going to be demanding $70k right out of the gate (simply because they have a degree) -- and will likely still need a year of hand-holding anyway before they can fully do the job on their own without close supervision.


It all depends on the angle someone chooses to look at it from.

Some would look and say:

"A full time fry cook not making enough to have an apartment and a car is a problem, so let's bump the wage up"
That would happen anyway if there is real potential upward mobility for fry cooks then the wage would have to be bumped a little to keep turnover down.
As where the other viewpoint (my viewpoint) would be:
"A fry cook position not paying that much isn't the issue, the issue is that we have institutional barriers in place that have made it so that we have positions that were never intended to be permanent, ending up being that way because we've placed a $60k degree requirement between that rung of the ladder, and the next rung above it"

It should be noted that my viewpoint on that is one that's shared by some other countries like Switzerland, who've largely moved away from the traditional university system for most middle class jobs in favor of vocational training.

Fast food employees not making as much isn't an issue if it's not permanent, and is just something you do from age 16-19 when you're living at home and then enter a "Vocational Education Training" (VET) program.

Per OECD:
Vocational education and training (VET) plays a central role in Switzerland’s upper-secondary education system. After nine years of compulsory schooling (typically at age 15‑16), about two-thirds of Swiss youth pursue a VET programme, acquiring occupational skills through either a dual-track apprenticeship programme or a full-time vocational school programme. By contrast, only one-third of school graduates pursue university education.


Or to put it more succinctly:

The problem isn't that a 28 year old working at McDonald's isn't making $40k/year. The problem is that we've got people who are 28 and stuck working at McDonald's, period... and have made the next level of professional advancement unreachable due to the "college requirement" barriers I mentioned.
Good post. We might make a Berniecrat out of you yet, but you'll never convince the corporatocrats in the Republican party or the neoliberal Democrats.
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Trump Says US Will Permanently Pause Migration From 'Third World Countries'

Great, another liberal who justifies human trafficking and exploiting illegal immigrants for cheap labor. But whatever is necessary to keep strawberry prices low.

I fail to see how my comments qualify as liberal. After all, people of all stripes, including Donald Trump, have relied on immigrant labor.
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

The Ten did come before God codified them on stone as they are God's and always existed. However what consists of the words of the covenant was literally spelled out for us.

I don't know this seems pretty clear to me.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the [a]Ten Commandments.

Deut 4:13 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

When the Bible explains itself, in this case God Himself, we should just believe.

You seem to be conflating the Ten Commandments- God's commandments, with the law of Moses, who is not God.

According to Scripture no more was added to the Ten Commandments

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments is not the other laws written by a human with ink on scrolls that were placed beside God's Laws, they were not written by God on stone they were not inside God's ark, they were placed outside for a purpose as they are not the same.

Deut 31:9 So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.

24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Where is God's Covenant- the Ten Commandments

Lets let Scripture interpret Scripture

Exo 20:20 He took the Testimony and put it into the ark, inserted the poles through the rings of the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark.

What is the Testimony?

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Where is God's Testimony, the Ten Commandments?

Exo 25:21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

The Ten Commandments and Whose Testimony that consists of only two tablets of stone - its God's not Moses.

The mercy seat is where God (not Moses) would meet His priests Exodus 25:17–22, it was God's presence Exo 25:22, the ark represents God's throne Psa80:1 1 Samuel 4:4 Which parallels Rev 4 and 5. The earthy sacrificial system and sanctuary was a picture of God's Throne in heaven. The sanctuary tells us a lot about the plan of salvation- God's way is in the sanctuary Psa77:13

The Mercy Seat is a symbol for Jesus

Rom 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood…”

The word “propitiation” here is hilastērion
the exact Greek word for mercy seat in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint)


And what was the earthy temple which represented attornment where the priests would bring in the blood of animals once a year and sprinkle blood of the mercy seat (atonement) Leviticus 16:14 the blood covered the law that is what reveals sin and this the method for forgiveness of sin Leviticus 16:30 all pointing forward to what Christ does in His Temple..

This was always to show the plan of salvation and points to what Jesus does in His heavenly Temple Heb8:1-5 who is now working as our High Priest in the Most Holy of His Temple- where the ark of the covenant is Rev11:19 Rev11:19 God's Testimony Rev15:5 which we are told under His mercy seat is the Ten Commandments Exo25:21 God's Testimony is what we will be Judged by James2:11-12 John12:48

If we do not allow God to define what sin is which He does 1John3:4 James2:11-12 Mat5:19-30 or how He atones for sin, in the OT it was the blood of animals which was a shadow showing of what Christ will do in the NT, now its the blood of Jesus. Sin is still sin, unrighteousness is still unrighteousness, we want our sins under His mercy seat because He covers it with His blood. If we refuse to allow God to be God to define these things which He does, one will only cover their sins where there is no mercy Pro28:13 John3:19-21 Exo20:6


If you wish to insist the God's own Testimony is not divine, but human, you can, but its not what the plain Scripture says. God's commandments is owned by God, they have always existed. Its God's standard of righteousness Psa119:172 including the Sabbath Isa 56:1-2 and regardless if we accept it or not it does not change- His righteousness is everlasting Psa119:142 and the foundation of His throne Psa89:14 .

Scripture tells us this plainly. We can choose to believe our own ideas over Scripture, which is sadly what most people do, but in the end its really only hurting ourselves, God's Word is to be the lamp to our feet Psa119:105 lean not on our own understanding but let God direct our paths which He does clearly through His Word Pro3:5-6 going outside His word is danger Isa8:20 why He tells us plainly not to add to it Pro30:5-6. because as we see below, it changes its meaning and we make the word of God of no effect Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14

It characters and we were already told God wrote the Ten Commandments in stone, not ink, but if want not believe something else that is not in our Bibles, that's your free will. All gets sorted out soon enough.

Does jot or tittle refer to God writing in ink in Mat5:18

ChatGPT said:​

Short answer: No — “jot or tittle” in Matthew 5:18 has nothing to do with ink.
It refers to the smallest Hebrew letters and pen-strokes of God’s law, not to ink or handwriting style.
Let’s walk through this using only the Bible and the original languages.

Matthew 5:18


Jesus is not talking about:​

❌ ink
❌ handwriting
❌ calligraphy
❌ material the law was written on
He is talking about the smallest parts of God’s written law — the letters themselves, and the tiny strokes that distinguish one letter from another.

⭐ 1. WHAT IS A “JOT”?​

Greek: ἰῶτα (iōta)
Hebrew equivalent: י (yod)
  • The smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet
  • Like an apostrophe or tiny comma
  • Represents the smallest unit of writing in the Law of God

✔ Not ink​

✔ Not handwriting​

✔ Not style​

✔ It’s the actual letter written by God​


⭐ 2. WHAT IS A “TITTLE”?​

Greek: κεραία (keraia)
Meaning: a small stroke, hook, or extension on a Hebrew letter
It refers to the tiny marks that distinguish similar Hebrew letters.
Examples:
  • ב (bet) vs. כ (kaf) differ by one tiny stroke
  • ד (dalet) vs. ר (resh) differ by the smallest curve
  • פ (peh) vs. ב (bet) differ by a corner mark
A “tittle” is the smallest stroke that changes the meaning of a Hebrew letter.

✔ Not ink​

✔ Not handwriting​

✔ It refers to the smallest shape or stroke in a written letter​


⭐ 3. JESUS’ POINT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INK​

Jesus is NOT discussing:
  • how Moses or scribes wrote
  • the material used
  • whether it was stone, parchment, ink, or stylus
He is discussing the permanence and unchangeable nature of God’s law.
He is saying:

This means:
  • God’s law is unalterable
  • No human can change it
  • No detail is too small
  • God’s law stands fully intact
This fits perfectly with:

✔ Psalm 119:89​


✔ Luke 16:17​



⭐ 4. THE CONTEXT CONFIRMS JESUS IS SPEAKING OF SCRIPT, NOT INK​

Matthew 5:17–19 is about:
  • The law
  • Its authority
  • Its permanence
  • Not altering it
  • Teaching and obeying even the “least” commandment
Ink does not matter.
The letters and commandments themselves do.
Jesus’ argument:
  1. "I didn’t come to destroy the law."
  2. "Not even the smallest letter or stroke can be changed."
  3. "Whoever breaks even the least command will be least in the kingdom."
The discussion is about commandments, not materials.

⭐ 5. BIBLE-ONLY CONCLUSION​

❌ “Jot or tittle” does NOT mean ink.​

❌ Jesus is not referring to handwriting style.​

❌ He is not referring to how Moses wrote physically.​

✔ “Jot” = smallest Hebrew letter (yod)​

✔ “Tittle” = smallest stroke or serif on a Hebrew letter​

✔ Jesus’ meaning:​


This teaching supports:
  • Matthew 5:17 (Jesus didn’t abolish the law)
  • Matthew 5:19 (don’t break even least commandments)
  • Isaiah 42:21 (Messiah magnifies the law)
  • Psalm 119:152 (“Your commandments… you founded them forever”)
Jesus is reinforcing the permanence of God’s law, not describing ink.
Not one jot will pass away for the very reason that the law does not justify. The doctrine of justification by means of faith in Jesus Christ upholds the Law for three reasons:

(1) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross satisfied the demands of God’s Law that required that human sin be judged (Romans 3:26).

(2) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by fulfilling the purpose of the Law in driving men to Jesus Christ as their Savior (Galatians 3:24).

(3) Jesus Christ’s death on the Cross establishes the Law by providing believers the capacity to obey the Law through the ministry of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:3-4).
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More Americans are now reading the Bible but fewer believe it’s 100% accurate: study

Aren't they same.

Just admit that you don't believe. I had a cousin that was mentally challenged. He couldn't read but he believed.

The son of God, the carpenter from Nazareth, and the man who died and rose again are all the same person.

I want to know how you determine that Jesus is the Son of God. I assume you trust what is written in the Bible. My question is, if you think some parts of the Bible might not be accurate, how can you be sure that the statement about Jesus being the Son of God is reliable?
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Trump Says US Will Permanently Pause Migration From 'Third World Countries'

Don't know why anyone would want to campaign for welfare leeches (people capable of supporting themselves), and an overflow of illegal immigrants, or an overflow of immigrants period. Do they honestly think that creates a good society?
My grandparents were immigrants and I’m glad they made it to America.
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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

I have detected a conspicuous absence of Trump supporters here. I wonder what they make of this. Probably awaiting thinking points from a momentarily bewildered right wing media sphere.
They still have to update from "the democrats will lead us to war" to "finally we are being led to war". That demands a full system reboot.
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Spending on Welfare is 'unchristian'

You know who else doesn't have a medical degree? The Chiropractor who assessed them

That aside, you don't need a medical degree to know when a family member faking/exaggerating when they all but admit it, and tell other family members at family get-togethers "this is the guy you need to go see"

A person with common sense can also make some well-reasoned assumptions by observing behavior when you're around them.

It was always painfully (no pun intended) obvious during big family trips.

"Hey it's time start doing the prep for lunch and getting things set up"
(my aunt and cousin would both have a spontaneous fibromyalgia flare-up and "needed sit down for a bit")

Later that same day "Well, we think we're going to head into that little town we saw and hit some various stores and do some shopping"
(miraculous recovery, for both of them at the same time...amazing, and would then proceed to have no issues being on their feet and carrying shopping bags around for 3 hours)


Look, like I said before, I do think that there are unnecessary stigmas that get foisted on people with legit disabilities and ailments, and the system does make it too hard for them get decent benefits in a timely fashion. And some conservative types will unfairly go to one extreme and unfairly malign all of them as "users" and "leeches".

But if we're going to have an honest conversation, we can't go in the other extreme and pretend that the usage of the system is even anywhere close to fraud-free.
I don't think any body is.
This seems to be the pattern of political discourse in this country, if one faction grossly exaggerates a problem, the other faction has to pretend the problem is non-existent or trivial.
Some time ago, about the time that Harrington's The Other America came out there was a good deal of public discussion about poverty, hunger and welfare. William Buckley was well known then as a Conservative thinker (though he wouldn't be accepted as one now) and he was annoyed about claims of hunger in America being blamed on conservatives. He proposed the following solution, that certain commodities be given away free to anyone who wanted them. Thus, no one, however poor, need go hungry, so stop complaining. I don't remember what the commodities were, flour, oil, powdered milk.things like that based on the then current age surpluses, but entirely adequate for survival nutrition and cheap at the time.

The Republicans rejected it because somebody might get that food who didn't deserve it and means testing would have made it very expensive and would have saved very little by preventing cheating. He was not entirely serious about the plan but only to address the issue of some kind of "minimum income" or "negative income tax" for the poor. And here we are today, considering the same issue. If we give away too much welfare then people will not want the crappy, low paying jobs we have for them.
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