BCP1928 said:

I don't. But your instance that it must be some "modern" type lathe is baseless.

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But why. The same logic that even pretty good symmetry and circularity is achieved by a pretty basic wheel or lathing uses the same logic for more precise symmetry and circularity.

If we can say that rough circularity is cased by a rudimentary rotating device. Then the same logic would follow that very good circularity was achieved by a much better wheel or lathe.

If you can use the logic that at some point roundness requires some sort of rotating device. Then the better the roundness the better the device.

BCP1928 said:

That appears to be what you are trying to prove, yes.

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Culture or craftsman. I think its irrelevant as to the signatures and tech. Some cultures like China evolved to make fine china and vases, Others didn't. So the craft as an industry is what produced great craftsman that they specialised.

It may be that as a culture they had evolved knowledge about the workings of nature that allowed them to achieve results beyond the traditional methods.

BCP1928 said:

You are the only one suggesting that they used nothing but their unaided hands. I'm not even sure you know what that means.

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I was trying to make destinctions and break down the difference between unaided hands say for example in coil pottery that only uses the hands to coil the vase up and then blend it into a vase or pot shape by hands.

The next level is simple tools like chisels and pounders, Its still unaided in that the chiseling and pounding or rubbing is not guided by some machine to achieve the precision. A measuring device adds another piece of tech above unaided hands thus another little aid that helps with precision.

Then the wheel and bore stick are another step in the technical aids. A free hand or a hand with a tool in it but still free moving can be used but the tech is what achieved the circularity.

Then we can go all the way up to sophisticated lathing that is stable and controlled to achieve the greatest precision that eventually reaches the highest levels such as NASA level precision which involved no humans at all.

So all I am do is breaking down the stages of how tech aids in achieving the signatures. Then as others have done reverse engineering the signatures in vases to work out what level of tech had to have been used. Obviously the more precise the more sophisticated the tech.

BCP1928 said:

I have no idea what they used. Like you, I'm just speculating.

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Yes but like most people have concluded some sort of lathing or wheel was involved. Its a matter of what level of sophistication that was. Or maybe it was something completely different like stone softening which allowed conventional tools to be used. But could still produce similar signatures.

But whatever it was the signatures speak for themselves and show something beyond the orthodox methods which have been tested and cannot reproduce the same signatures.

BCP1928 said:

So what?

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So what in that you are objecting to me using the same logic but extending it, You think the signatures are caused by some sort of lathing or wheel or bore stick that is wobbly.

I am saying the lathing was more sophisticated based on the same analysis of the signatures that point to lathing in the first place. Just a more elaborate take on your own conclusions that this lathing was more modern like lol.

BCP1928 said:

Really, I have lost track of what you are trying to prove by showing that ancient Egyptians used stonecutting lathes.

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You probably missed the first part where it was not about anything in particular but that there was advanced tech and knowledge and that the orthodox narrative is flawed.

As a natural consequence the thread went into specific examples and the vases became the main focus in supporting that advanced knowledge. But as I said we could go into many examples and as a total the overall evidence makes a strong case.

But if we only focus on one specific example its easy to get lost in those specifics and lose sight of the overall point. I said I don't mind going into specific as it may help support the advanced knowledge. But now I think its time to move on as it will only continue the same.

I'm so sorry that you have lost a baby. I know that is a unique kind of pain that stays with you.

If she doesn't tag you in social media, then it might not have been directed to you. If it is Facebook, I believe you can unfollow her but still be friends. This way you won't see her post, but still have the connection on Facebook.

Without seeing the actual posts, I think what she said about conception can be construed as mean, but in all fairness, many Christians say this and other similar things to each other and don't mean it in a malicious way. That being said, if she didn't mention miscarriage (loss), I would assume she didn't mean me because her post was about conception. I would also take that as a general statement rather than something targeted if I wasn't tagged. You're not the only person she knows, not the only person she thinks about, and she might not have even been thinking about anyone in particular to begin with.

If she is meaning for some of the other posts to be for you, she could just be trying to get you to see her side of things in her own way, in a way that is easy and slightly detached for her so it might not be as painful or difficult.

People are entitled to their feelings regardless of the cause. You don't have to agree that what she does or wants is okay, but that doesn't mean she isn't feeling disrespected or rejected. She is obviously hurt or offended.

You can choose how you want to respond or to not respond at all. Just as she can.

Regardless of the decision you make, you need to be willing to let her behavior go and possibly let her go.

You can behave in a respectful manner and be kind without agreeing. If you don't want to use her preferred pronouns, then just avoid using pronouns for her altogether. That way you both win in a small way. You aren't saying anything thing you don't agree with, and she isn't being called anything she doesn't want to be called.

She might still reject you anyway. She might still share her thoughts and feelings without any regard for your feelings.

I think you need to decide where your line is. Has it been crossed yet?

You can choose to love her from a distance, pray for her, and wish her the best. If you choose to keep contact with her, you need to do it with love and kindness.

Yves

Vambram said:

I support Israel who had to defeat Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. I support Israel and Netanyahu with whom Arab nations have signed The Abrahamic Accords.

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As a Christian I cannot support genocide.

-CryptoLutheran

eclipsenow said:

What? Someone with NPD cannot be trusted? Never!

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34 felony fraud convictions, as well as many, many other guilty verdicts for fraud speak volumes.

-- A2SG, loud and clear, except for those with MAGA earplugs....

ThatRobGuy said:

It sounds like the consensus is that it's too close to decision time for this year.

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It was decided last week. Just not announced yet.

Dan Perez said:

AND you do have verse that CORNELIUS. was given. the HOLY SPIRIT ??'''

Where did I. mis it. , but you KNOW. ??

dan p

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You missed it big time, just read Acts 10:45.

Aristarkos

lucypevensie said:

Earl

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Lindsay.

ThatRobGuy said:

Let's be honest, the reason behind Obama getting one was rather vague and non-descript. That's not to pick on him, I was an Obama voter back in the day, but the rationale for giving him one was weak at best and focused heavily on intangibles.

Nobel Peace Prize 2009

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"

www.nobelprize.org

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I think that prize was more based on the hopes of him doing peace stuff. His use of drone strikes put paid to that idea.

Not the only time the nobel peace prize comittee honored someone who turned out to not act in the spirit of the whole thing. Just look at Abiy Ahmed. And the nobel peace prize in 1994 was given to three politicians of israel and palestine for fostering peace. What an anticlimax, eh?

A2SG said:

Yeah, because trusting the Republicans in Congress to negotiate in good faith after they get what they wanted is a bad idea. They, like their party's leader, cannot be trusted to act in good faith.

The GOP is still refusing to negotiate because they know that democrats usually cave in on things like this. But I hope Schumer et al hold fast, because nothing will get done if the Republicans always get their way...and those in need of health care will suffer as a result.

-- A2SG, because the GOP doesn't care about anything but tax cuts for billionaires.....

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What? Someone with NPD cannot be trusted? Never!

ViaCrucis said:

Do you support the innocent citizens of Israel who suffer the shame and embarrassment of having Netanyahu and other murderous extremists in charge? Or do you support the violent and genocidal Netanyahu government?

I support the former. Just as I support the Palestinians.

I support those who want freedom, and the right of peaceful coexistence.

I do not support terrorist organizations and oppressive genocidal regimes.

-CryptoLutheran

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I support Israel who had to defeat Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. I support Israel and Netanyahu with whom Arab nations have signed The Abrahamic Accords.

RocksInMyHead said:

Mkay. Let's not get ahead of ourselves though - the government still has to prove that she did, in fact, lie. At this point, all they've done is assert it.

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The lie and mortgage fraud is in the forms she herself filled out.

Say it aint so said:

Make your case counselors.

A 2018 inspector general report concluded that Comey learned of the leak after the story was published, and that McCabe, in a meeting with Comey, was not initially forthcoming about being the one who permitted the disclosure to a Wall Street Journal reporter.​

CONCLUSION

(U// The investigation (FBI) has not yielded sufficient evidence to criminally charge any person, including Comey or Richman, with making false statements or with the substantive offenses under investigation.​

​

There is a reason why the had to fire the AG who found no reason to bring charges, and replaced him with an insurance lawyer who has no support from her subordinates in filing the indictment. She did it herself, errors and all.

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It all comes down to whom you believe. McCabe or Comey?

It's a good first step, though it took far longer than he claimed it would.

If a lasting peace would manifest out of this, it would certainly warrant praise. But for now, it's a glorified ceasefire like many before, and with no indication of hamas or israel changing the general direction of their policies.

We will see what the near future brings. When the people of Gaza get the help they need (without Hamas stealing it to create tools of war or sell it to them), and when the government of israel steps down from it's war footing, a nobel peace prize would be warranted. But I see neither the leadership of hamas, who got rich and powerful from this guerillia war, nor Netanyahu, who is with one foot in prison without permanent war, being to keen on that prospect.

And please, don't trot out the tired old line of "Trump could cure cancer and the left would decry him". He had a positive foreign policy success. Bully to him. Much like with the Covid-19 vaccine, I have no problem praising something I deem praiseworthy, even on someone I find many things to criticise about.

a somewhat relavant post here
Login to view embedded media assuming this is true, and i tend to think it is, it helps explain why i spiritually knew the christian red pill communities would die out, over a decade ago. God wasn't in it.

keep in mind that there are growing pains and backlash as a result of anyone, or anything, losing power. we may be seeing this now.

AvilaSurfer said:

Hamas is 100% at fault here. And they’ve brainwashed their people they’re “governing” to hate Israel and anyone who lives there. It’s disgusting. Hamas needs to be wiped out.

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I have no sympathy for the actual terrorists within Hamas - but I wonder how many of the original terrorists are even still alive?

But the Palestinian people? That's a different story.

Imagine your city was walled off by some hostile power for decades. The power and water and trade are all intermittent and unreliable.

Imagine you were told you cannot visit your cousin who lives maybe just 50 km away in the West Bank. You are a 'security risk' - just because of where you are born. Then you hear your cousin was illegally kicked out of his house. He's so depressed - some Israeli settlers just came and took it. They had soldiers with them. They did not care that your cousin has a sick wife and 2 kids. He's living with friends - but not sure where he's going to go.

Why didn't he protest more? Oh - that's because you are both aware that your OTHER cousin was SHOT DEAD when he did so. No one cared. No one investigated. It's a homicide - maybe even a war crime given Israel should not even BE in the West Bank under international law. It's illegal imperialism - illegal occupation and settler expansion.

But who cares? Israel certainly doesn't - they have the backing of the USA. They have also hypnotised about 4 times as many American Evangelicals as there are Jews on the planet into being so called "Christian Zionists" who use bad end-times theology to justify favouring Israel - no matter what!

It's been like this for decades - and only getting worse.

THEN you hear the WORST news. You understand the frustration - but not the barbarity of the acts. Hamas - your countrymen - have attacked young Israeli's in the worst way possible! It's a full scale terrorist attack unlike anything Hamas has done before.

Your heart races in your chest - as you fear for your own kids. If life was bad before, what's it going to be like if Israel responds in it's usual disproportionate way? They don't practice "Just War" theory. They use Israeli bombs to 'precision target' some 'perceived' enemy lair - but the bomb itself crushes lungs in a 700 meter diameter kill zone.

---
Let's get real. Hamas killed 1,219 people and took 251 hostages. If we include ALL the hostages as horrific casualties of war - even the living ones because they were illegally kidnapped for 2 years - we're talking about 1470 casualties.

How are the Palestinians doing? Over 65,000 Palestinians dead! In addition to the numbers, it's the spread. At one point it was about a classroom of children a day. So much for 'just war'.

But the number itself? Is that Just War? Is that a proportional response? That's over 44.2 TIMES the original terrorist attack.

bèlla said:

I think you’ll have better luck joining a bible study and fellowshipping with likeminded believers. Most of the people your age are married with children or have other responsibilities that require their attention. The one-on-one relationship you’re seeking for study and prayer is commonly found with older persons. They have the time to pour into you in the manner you’d like.

I had a prayer partner in the past who was older and we attended the same church. We went to lunch every week (often more than once) and were part of a women’s bible study. While I enjoyed her company her need was great and she wanted me in everything and I started to pull away. She was smothering me because of her loneliness. There’s a lot of people like her in the church who’d love the companionship you want. The children are gone and they’re alone.

I was younger at the time and that was my first experience with that form of connecting and I wouldn’t do it again. But that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you for desiring the bond. Our need quotients differ and honoring yours is best. Talk with the older people in your community and see how it goes. There’s people your age seeking the same on the site as well. Maybe you can support one another in the interim.

~bella

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thanks Bella for the response. My church has many older people. I should pray about approaching one of them and see if someone is put on my mind or will come up to me. Thanks!

JustaPewFiller said:

Hi @timechangers - I've read all your posts in this thread. I've struggled a bit with feeling invisible at times. Sometimes I'm actually ok with that - sometimes not. But your posts made me see a different side of the coin as I looked back on my Christian journey over the years.

I see from your posts you are male and I am as well. So we have that in common. There have been times in my church life (particularly in years past) when guys have asked me to a Bible study, or prayer and I have declined. The times I have declined really had nothing to do with the guy inviting me. It had to do with me..

I'm going to list out the typical reasons that I would come up with in my brain that would cause me to say "no" when I did over the years.

• "That guy is like some SUPER Christian! He knows the Bible inside and out! I'd look or feel stupid. Everyone would think I didn't know the Bible well enough."
• "That guy can say a prayer like Shakespeare could write and he can do it at length! I'd sound silly in comparison in my bumbling way of praying."
• "I can't commit to a weekly thing due to other things going on in my life."
• "That guy seems like a really good guy. But does he ever want to talk about or do anything other than the Bible study or prayer? Maybe its on me, but I wonder if he ever talks about sports, or work, or (insert an interest here) that I could relate to more at this stage of my life? I'll run out of things to say if we just talk about the Bible or pray all the time."

In short, it had nothing to do with the guy asking. But, it had everything to do with the reasons I just outlined above that my brain came up with.

I'll tell you a secret of how the first guy to get me into a Bible study did it. We were going to the same church so he knew my name. He started dropping casual questions or bits of info. Like, "Did you catch the game last night?" "Wow, work has been keeping me busy! How is it going for you?" "Hey, I'm thinking of growing a tomato plant. You know anything about it?" In short, he sought common ground where I was comfortable. He got to know me, I go to know him. Then he asked about Bible study - and well - the reasons not to didn't seem to apply as much.

Now, that is just what worked with me. I ended up using similar method to invite people to a Sunday school class I was teaching. As they used to say on the TV commercial, "Your mileage may vary."

I hope this has helped some. I've felt invisible before and I know it can stink sometimes. Prayers to you..

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Thanks for the response. I understand what you are saying. I like sports(cubs baseball and college football) and there are some guys if they asked me to do a Bible study with them I would feel intimidated because I don't know what their interests are besides reading the Bible. So thanks for bringing that up. I could see how someone who doesn't know me very well can get that type of impression about me as well. I need to not take things personally as well. If I focus on the Lord while at church and not so much on socializing(though that is important) I can keep my perspective. I also need to remember when I was in school and picked last for a lot of things, I was not invisible to the Lord who noticed me and called me to follow His Son Jesus. For that I can be thankful.

Soyeong said:

Indeed.

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Do you drive an automobile or ride in any vehicle with an internal combustion engine on the Sabbath?

Always in His Presence said:

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has faced criticism and scrutiny over his stance on the current government shutdown, particularly because he previously voted for a similar spending bill that could have averted it.
Earlier in the year, Schumer joined eight other Democrats and one independent in voting to advance a Republican-crafted bill that avoided a shutdown but handed President Donald Trump a legislative win. At the time, Schumer defended his vote by arguing that a shutdown would have been worse for Americans. However, this move sparked backlash from within his own party, with some Democrats calling for new Senate leadership.

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Yeah, because trusting the Republicans in Congress to negotiate in good faith after they get what they wanted is a bad idea. They, like their party's leader, cannot be trusted to act in good faith.

The GOP is still refusing to negotiate because they know that democrats usually cave in on things like this. But I hope Schumer et al hold fast, because nothing will get done if the Republicans always get their way...and those in need of health care will suffer as a result.

-- A2SG, because the GOP doesn't care about anything but tax cuts for billionaires.....

Aldebaran said:

Why do you worry about soybean money from China? Trump's tariffs are raking in hundreds of billions

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You misunderstand the issue.

Soybean money IS from China into America.

Tariffs are a local domestic tax - a different way of collecting tax from American money from American people on the tax on overseas goods.

American soy growers sell TO China - and make money. But if Trump puts a tariff on anything Chinese - and China responds in kind and puts a tariff on American soy growers, then those farmers are going to lose their market. They're already hurting!

Trump likes tariffs because they tax America's poor even more than the rich. That is - the poor pay a much higher percent of their income as tax on overseas staples. Tariffs are Trump taxing America's poor. It's just like the BBB - doing a reverse Robin Hood to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich.

While it might be HERESY for a MAGA to disagree with Trump on anything, it's OK for genuine Republicans to not like tariffs. You have the permission of Ronald Reagan! I'm a lefty - but MAGA have gone so alt-right that here you have me cheering on Reagan! Check the bits in red and beware!





Appealing to a confused and bewildered working class with simplistic promises is a tried and true tactic of demagogues throughout the 20th century.

If you listen to experts on international trade (like I have on The Economist podcast), the so called agreements that Trump thinks he has won from strutting the stage with his big tariff stick are anything BUT done deals! They are more like vague promissory notes - intentions to do things - rather than actually legally binding trade deals. There are so many i's to dot and t's to cross in the actual details in terms of actual trade deals - things that take 6 months to a year to nut out - that I'd have more faith in America's carbon targets being met by City Mayors and State governors than any of these 'trade deals' actually working out as Trumpeted by Trump!

The whole notion of Trump's tariffs have failed legal tests so far - which he appealed, and will ultimately be tested in the Supreme Court on Nov 5 according to the wiki

Under 'normal' Presidents (those not afflicted with NPD) - these tariff powers were not as abused - and the rule of law respected. The executive has tariff powers, but they're in certain emergency test cases. And no - just because Trump gets shampoo in his eyes one morning and is in a bad mood and wants to whack tariffs on someone for the world having the AUDACITY to let shampoo get in his eyes - no - that is not a trade emergency.

Oompa Loompa said:

Because according to the article, empathy requires accepting and welcoming sinful lifestyles to spare the feelings of others.

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Which is so incorrect it's not even wrong. Empathy is simply the ability to understand what someone else is feeling. It doesn't 'require' anything. Especially accepting or rejecting lifestyles. I've never heard such abject nonsense in a long time. And that's saying something being a regular in this forum...

sjastro said:

To further illustrate that @stevevw doesn't know what he is talking about, here is the method used by Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy for determining circularity.

View attachment 371306
​

They are both using the method of least squares which is a curve fitting exercise.

By comparison circularity known as roundness in ISO 1101 uses MCZ (minimum circle zone) which is defined as all points fitting inside two concentric circles (Figure 81).

View attachment 371307

​

Artifacts Foundation and Maximus.energy use a curve fitting method which focuses on average error minimization, not maximum deviation where outliers or extreme values are averaged out.
In the ISO 1100 method all points are handled equally including statistical outliers, furthermore the more circular the cross section the less the radius difference between the concentric circles.

The least square method makes cross sections look more circular compared to MCZ which is used by all professional metrology software conforming to ISO 1101.
Given the near perfect symmetry and circularity nonsense spouted by @stevevw it's not surprising this is the case when amateur software is used.

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I give up. You win lol. I can't keep doing this techno stuff. Your killing me with science lol. I have two different claims. In fact I have several independent groups saying these are 3D anaysis and they speak in 3D language about the vases precision in the shapes like spheres and cyclinders.

They appear to have done the 3D metrology and software analysis in the language they use over and over and over again.

If you claim that I am not technically able to go into the specific then why are you throwing this stuff at me.

Like I said write a paper. You have half done it already it seems. Finish it and send it in to the research groups to point out this obvious error they all overlooked and that you are the only one who spotted it lol.

RandyPNW said:

I think that's great. Yes, the Law contained all the elements later said to contain moral, ceremonial, and judicial aspects. But they were all a single agreement. Failing to obey Sabbath Law was the same as failure to respect God's name and not use it "vainly." Our failure under ceremonial law was equal to our failure under moral law.

We not only fail to carry out God's instructions at times, but we also fail to abide by morals perfectly. We all are guilty of a kind of murder when we get angry with one another. We are all guilty of lust when we look too long in the wrong direction.

The covenant of Law condemned the whole human race, including Israel who was under that covenant, because all sinners, by their record, are prevented from access to the Tree of Life. It was a single covenant that required holiness of Israel, but at the same time it showed that nobody qualifies for Eternal Life apart from Christ and his mercy.

The Law accomplished an important matter in establishing what had been known since the garden, that the human record under the effects of sin disqualified all sinners from the Tree of Life. And so, moral, ceremonial, and judicial law all condemned Israel as sinners, disqualified from Salvation, if they failed to proceed to God's cure, which is obedience to Christ.

It is quite true that God's Law remains in effect as a moral standard for all mankind. We remain subject to God's word and to God's Law. But we will not find Eternal Life by obeying God's word under the Law of Moses, neither moral, ceremonial, nor judicial. Not only would such an "obedience" disqualify us from Life, but it would show contempt for Christ who fulfilled the very Mercy that the Law of Moses had been directing Israel towards.

We follow moral law, though not under the Law of Moses but now under obedience to Christ, who combines law and mercy. If we live by his Spirit we will not only show his righteousness, but in showing his righteousness we will also qualify for his mercy.

It is not important to show that obedience to God is similar under the covenant of Law and the covenant of Christ. The important thing is to direct our morality to the same God who presided over both covenants and who now asks nothing more than we obey Christ, His Son. In doing so, not only is our record of failure eliminated, but we have mercy through the one whose record qualified him to forgive us.

Under the Law our moral record condemned us. By obedience to Christ we rely on Christ's mercy and the grace of his gift of righteousness. We continue to live moral lives and to live by the law of God's word. But we know that our record would disqualify us if we did not turn to Christ for mercy.

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Amen and further more God's law is a delight and blessing to those saved by grace. Blessed is the man who's sins God does not count against him. Just because one is saved by grace and is perfected forever by Christ's one sacrifice does not mean that they are going to lay the reigns on the neck of lust. Absolutely not. We seek to be holy even as He is holy because we love Him. We adore HIm. And desire to be like Him. Obeying God is not a drag or a sacrifice because we recieve blessing upon blessing by doing so.

We delight to do your will O' God...

ARBITER01 said:

You're not obeying Jesus if you're obeying moses. In fact, a person obeying moses does not know Jesus, and He does not know them.

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And yet Jesus instructed the young man in Matt 19 to obey the ten commandments in order to enter life. When you can reconcile such verses as Matt 19:17, Rom 2:7, and Rom 2:13 with verses such as Gal 2:16

"...know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ."

Or Eph 2:8-10
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

then you'll even better understand the gospel.