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Quartodecimanism: Myths and Facts

Quartodecimanism: Myths and Facts

Myth: Those second-century Christians who ended the Paschal fast on 14 Nisan were called "Quartodecimans".
Fact: The word "quartodeciman" is not reliably attested until after the council of Nicea. It was never applied in the second century to those who ended the Paschal fast on 14 Nisan.

Myth: The second-century Christians who ended the Paschal fast on 14 Nisan celebrated Easter on the night of 14/15 Nisan.
Fact: They may have, but they may instead have celebrated on the night of 13/14 Nisan. This is the date when, according to the Gospel of John (John 18.28) Jesus ate the last supper with his disciples. Polycrates, in his letter to the Roman bishop Victor, wrote that "my family have always kept the day when the people [i.e. Jewish people] put away the leaven." The removal of the leaven, according to the nearly-contemporary Mishnah, begins on the night of 13 Nisan. (Mishnah Pesachim 1).

Myth: Victor tried to excommunicate the churches in the Roman Province of Asia.
Fact: Eusebius's account is anachronistic. We can read between the lines of Eusebius's account by examining the letter that Irenaeus wrote to Victor, which Eusebius quotes: "Never was this [difference in practice] made a ground for repulsing anyone, but the presbyters before you, even though they did not keep it, used to send the Eucharist to Christians from dioceses which did." So what Victor actually did was refuse to send the _fermentum_ to the Asian stranger-churches in Rome, not attempt to excommunicate the churches in Asia.

Myth: The Nisan-14 practice was the practice deprecated at the Council of Nicea.
Fact: The controversy at Nicea was between two schools of Sunday observance: Christians who might be called "Jewish calendarists" (and who were in later years called "Protopaschites") who wanted to celebrate Easter on the Sunday falling in the Jewish week of Unleavened Bread, even if that meant that the festival would fall before the spring equinox; and "Independent calendarists" who wanted to calculate their own month of Nisan and set the Easter festival to the third Sunday in that independently-calculated month of Nisan, so that the festival would always fall after the spring equinox. The "independent calendarists" carried the day. But the decision was controversial, with some Christians refusing to abide by it. One scholar has proposed that the Nisan-14 custom, moribound in the early 4th century, was revived in the later 4th century by Christians protesting against the Nicene decision, and who had read about the practice in Eusebius's book.

Myth: The controversy over the Nisan-14 practice was between the Eastern churches and the Western churches.
Fact: The Nisan-14 practice was confined to the Roman Province of Asia. All the other churches in the world, according to Eusebius, kept Easter on Sunday.

Myth: Those who kept the Nisan-14 practice were Torah-keepers.
Fact: The Evangelist Matthew's community were Torah-keepers, but there is no evidence connecting them to the Roman Province of Asia. The community in which the _Didache_ was written were partial Torah-keepers ("If you can shoulder the Lord's yoke in its entirety, then you will be perfect; but if that is too much for you, do as much as you can." But again there is no evidence linking them to Asia. The Nisan-14 assembly as it is known to us from Melito of Sardis's _Peri Pascha_ shows no evidence of Torah-keeping. Indeed, _Peri Pascha_ is partly Jew-hating.
John 18:28 does not prove that Jesus ate the Passover meal on the night of the 13th/14th. But rather just the opposite. Nine times in the NT it confers the notion that Jesus ate the PASSOVER meal with his disciples on the same night that he was betrayed. John 18:28 in fact confirms that it was the scripturally mandated time to eat the PASSOVER on the 14th day of the month at evening when all of it was to be consumed before the dawn of the next day.

The events of John 18 actually records (in one blurred account) of Jesus being brought before Pilate not once but twice. Luke records the third time taking place the third time after having been seen to Herod. The first instance took place before dawn. It was early according to John 18:28. Back to this in a minute. Luke 22:66 says, AS SOON AS IT WAS DAY, Jesus was taken before their council. And then in Luke 23:1 Jesus was taken inside the judgment hall to where Pilate then asks him, "Are you the king of the jews?" Compare that to John 18:33,34 where it is inside the judgment hall [he called for Jesus to be brought to him]. The 1st encounter of Jesus with Pilate was in John 18:29 where Pilate meets with Jesus and his accusers OUTSIDE OF the judgment hall. Thus, on this 1st encounter, The Jews did not go into the judgment hall "so that they might eat the PASSOVER ".

You see the PASSOVER must be eaten before dawn arrives. The dialog between Jesus and Pilate on the subsequent encounters is in the presence of the Jews inside the judgment hall, for Pilate says in Luke 23:14 "I have examined him [who was brought before ME] before you".
WHY was this okay now and but not okay the 1st time? Because it was after daybreak when the restriction about eating the PASSOVER expires at dawn. If the time for eating the Passover had not yet arrived, it would have defiled them to enter into the judgment hall. If they were so conscientious to not defile themselves in the 24 hour period prior to the time, they would have not entered the judgment hall during the daylight hours in which Jesus was brought TO Pilate. But they did. Verifying the time required to eat the Passover... before dawn.
Be blessed
The Pup
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Embarrassed but when I was a brand-new believer, not even a year since believing I thought maybe Jesus has already returned

I thought this was a possibility, but then it didn't make sense to me according to the scriptures and I stopped.

What does that mean? Should I have never been this foolish to think he already came back again? But I was new and haven't read the entire Bible. It was the very beginning where I was just learning about the Trinity.

The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Okay. Then stay ostracized. We want *true* unity, and you won't let us have it.
Who's "we?" I don't care if you ostracize me--I would take it as a testimonial to my patriotism.
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The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

yeah....forcing joining clubs I'm not behind.

I've just never worked in a "traditional" office so I have NO idea what that would be like.
One of the benefits of a blue collar job is that you can tell the prissy twits from HR who think up this kind of thing to stuff it.
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JD Vance responds to Pope Leo's comments about immigration policy

True story of mine, that demonstrates the confusion I and my fellow Catholics experienced in real life, at the local food pantry:

1) All food recipients were required to show proof that they lived in the local area, so that we could provide food only to local area residents, due to our limited resources

2) There was a sudden shift in about the year 2022, in which people came to pantry with a passport only and no proof of residence to show that they were from the local area we served

3) People we were trying to help were showing passports from other countries, and had nor proof of local address, such as a ID card or piece of recent mail

4) We were running out of food while people were still in line.

5) We had to cut back on whom we served, although it just really hurt us, as we believe in providing food to those who are hungry. We just could not meet the demands of car loads of people, all with only passports and no other ID, as well as local residents who were hungry.

6) We tried hard at first to serve everyone, but we could not.

What are supposed to do then? I take it that this real life experience is showing that we just pray-fully do what we can, and with much love, until there just simply are no more groceries.
That right there is our immigration dilemma in microcosm. What happens when the hordes of illegals swarm into an area, and absorb everything that the relief system can provide for them, until it runs out? Some people go without, both citizens and illegals. What happens when more and more and more people show up, demanding goodies, and there's simply no more goodies left to give? What then?

Everybody loses.
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Shouldn't christians be amazed by the thought of muslims immigrating to their vicinity? Think of all the missionary opportunities within walking distance. (That's a european measurement that denotes something aproximately a mile or less away. I know you guys don't do "walking".)
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Tit for Tat Tariffs - The US versus the World

If you want a businessman in the White House that doesn't understand debt, then so be it. There are very few such businessmen. Debt is part of almost all business models. A "balanced budget" is not a meaningful concept for business.

A wise businessman knows when they have a debt problem. They seek to reduce debt and increase income. Investors do look for excessive debt as as a warning sign.

Donald Trump used corporate bankruptcy to stiff contractors, workers and investors. He never was a good businessman.
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Free Energy & Tartaria

1764095350175.jpeg


Theatrum orbis terrarum by Abraham Ortelius,1570, and notice the inset in the top right which reads in Latin: Tartariae siue magni Chami regni, or “Tartaria or the kingdom of the great Cham.”

And who do we find in the Kingdom of the great Cham?

1764095385730.jpeg


The Great Cham, or in the original Mongolian, the Khan.

Like... is there nothing strange that the fact that the maps talking about Tartaria specifically only focus on the Far East? Like, the area that in the Middle Ages was the area least explored by Europeans on the Eurasian continent? Nothing suspicious about that connection?
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Folks want true unity because they can't accept differences. IT's too scary and unpredictable.

This is an ethos that informs so many other thoughts and opinions you have.

There's no strength in uniformity. And frankly, I think it's a special kind of insanity to expect the most absurdly "freedom loving" country to suddenly unite as one borg-like entity of sameness.

View attachment 373626

View attachment 373627


How about instead of bemoaning the left, you make yourself a party worthy of uniting with.
The above is a special kind of insanity.
You can never have strength in diversity, without at least a foundation of shared goals. We've had periods of that in the past 249 years, and we've had the opposite of that too over the past 249 years. On and off.

Why? Why do we drift to and away so much? How can we stabilize this is the future?
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Clinton's avoiding deposition

Why is it okay to copy and paste some article from a source that leans left, or right but it's not okay to use AI?
Either way is dialing it in but I don't see anyone complaining about copy and paste jobs as long as a source is given
I will note that I have been critical of both, and for the same reasons. I come to a forum to have a discussion with the users on that forum, not with a large language model or the author of an article who is not present.
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‘Just atrocious’: Trump’s polling numbers just hit a new low

Donald Trump’s Approval Rating Negative in 20 States He Won

According to polling by YouGov for The Economist, the president's approval rating is underwater in all but 11 states.

The pollsters also found that, except for Idaho, all states have a lower approval rating for Trump than they did in January. They found that the biggest shift happened in Oklahoma, where Trump's approval rating swung from +27 points to -7.

1764095280197.png


President Donald Trump said on Truth Social earlier this month: "So many Fake Polls are being shown by the Radical Left Media, all slanted heavily toward Democrats and Far Left Wingers…Fake News will never change, they are evil and corrupt but, as I look around my beautiful surroundings, I say to myself, 'Oh, look, I’m sitting in the Oval Office!'"

1764095467922.png
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B flat B♭

When it comes to science especially NASA, nope I don't believe them
When will you understand that science was around long before NASA was even thought of?
The moon, the stars, the distance of the sun from the earth - these were not discovered/invented by NASA and in fact have nothing to do with them.
& it's not b/c the earth is flat, it's b/c of the moon landings, they lied.
They didn't.
But Dean Odel did - and you believe him. But then, he says what you want to hear, doesn't he?
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The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Okay. Then stay ostracized. We want *true* unity, and you won't let us have it.
Folks want true unity because they can't accept differences. IT's too scary and unpredictable.

This is an ethos that informs so many other thoughts and opinions you have.

There's no strength in uniformity. And frankly, I think it's a special kind of insanity to expect the most absurdly "freedom loving" country to suddenly unite as one borg-like entity of sameness.

1764094938755.png


1764094964586.png



How about instead of bemoaning the left, you make yourself a party worthy of uniting with.
The above is a special kind of insanity.
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B flat B♭

You've just said you don't see how they can be

Unless they are twinkling in the waters/Aether above.

Sounds like you're prepared to believe something you don't see, or can't understand, when it might prove that the earth is flat. Yet when it comes to science, you "can't see" how the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, therefore it can't be, therefore people are lying.

When it comes to science especially NASA, nope I don't believe them & it's not b/c the earth is flat, it's b/c of the moon landings, they lied.
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Missing Virginia high school football coach wanted for child sexual abuse material: Police

Travis Turner, 46, of Appalachia, Virginia, has been missing since Nov. 20, according to the Virginia State Police. The Union High School football coach is considered a fugitive, police said.

State police on Monday obtained 10 warrants for Turner, including five counts of possession of child pornography and five counts of using a computer to solicit a minor, authorities said. The investigation remains ongoing and additional charges are pending, police said.

Amid his disappearance, the football team has advanced to the Virginia regional final, scheduled for this weekend, during their 12-0 season.

How old is the earth?

Yo
Great points. If God starts to deceive us in one area our faith will be weakened in all areas. It makes no sense. God is pure. He doesn't do things like this. He never has. He never will. God is truth. That is His character.
I asked AI and this is what it comes up with. AI can be surprisingly good for Bible study. Especially if you're looking for a word or concept but don't know exactly what it is so you can't just do a word search.
  • "Was" vs. "Became": This is a critical point. While the KJV (and most modern translations) says "The earth was without form, and void," some Old Earth creationists, particularly those who hold to the "gap theory," argue that the Hebrew word hayah (הָיְתָה) can also be translated as "became" or "had become." If translated as "became," it would imply a change in state – that the earth was not initially "without form, and void" but became that way after an initial creation (Genesis 1:1) and before the six days of creation. This "became" implies a ruin or judgment that necessitated a renewal.
  • "Tohu wa-bohu" (without form, and void): These Hebrew words literally mean "desolation and emptiness" or "chaos and waste." In other biblical contexts (like Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4:23), these terms are used to describe the aftermath of a judgment or destruction. So, to some, seeing these words in Genesis 1:2 suggests that the Earth was already in a state of ruin or disarray, not merely a pristine, unformed void from God's initial creative act. This state would then require a reformation to become habitable.
  • The Context of Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." If Genesis 1:1 is a complete, initial creation of a perfect heaven and earth, then Genesis 1:2 describing it as "without form, and void" seems contradictory unless something happened in between. This "something" is where the "gap" and the idea of a pre-Adamic world or a Luciferic flood often come in for those who interpret it this way. The subsequent six days would then be a restoration or re-creation of what was ruined.
You are very very correct. There is even more to learn from the spirit about these and other things. The devastation of the prior Earth was caused by the Satanic rebellion. The division of light from darkness was GODS separation of the kingdom of GOD from the kingdom of Satan. Satans kingdom is still on the Earth today, he is the god of this age, the prince of this world that is under his sway. 1 John 5:19 Many people do not believe this. Adam lost the dominion GOD gave him to Satan because whoever you render yourself a servant to obey that is who you obey. See Luke 4:6 Jesus came to qualify to replace Satan but has not yet returned to do so. This is why we pray thy kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. Satans kingdom began on that first day of the recreation of the Earth Genesis 1:3-5 Satans kingdom will end when Christ returns.
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Former congressional candidate (from out of state) charged with vandalizing Satanic Temple display at Iowa Capitol

Update time.

Mississippi Republican Takes Plea Deal After Destroying Satanic Statue in Iowa

Michael Cassidy, a former congressional and legislative candidate, was set for trial June 3, but his attorney filed a guilty plea on his behalf to an aggravated misdemeanor count of third-degree criminal mischief, the Des Moines Register reported. [felony charges were dropped as part of the deal. He gets 2 years probation and pays restitution.]

Since that 2023 event, Iowa has refused the Satanic Temple's applications to have a holiday event at the Capitol.

State again denies Satanic Temple's request to hold event at Iowa Capitol building

Matt Kezhaya, general counsel for The Satanic Temple, said the government is not alowed to deny pubic services or benefits to people or religous groups because officials disagree with their beliefs.

"Once state officials open up the Capitol to public events, as it has for displays and events around the holidays, they can't legally exclude The Satanic Temple because of its disfavored or minority viewpoint," he said in a statement.

In June, the ACLU of Iowa filed a civil rights complaint on behalf of The Satanic Temple Iowa alleging state officials illegally discriminated against the group based on its members’ religion when they denied the group’s event request in 2024.

[And now they've denied it again for 2025.]
When you fight for freedom, this is the EXACT freedom you fight for.

All these free speech folks who shrug when racist wingnuts spout off certainly will protect this speech as well.
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