Aaron112 said:

Not good. Not subject to Jesus nor to God's Word nor His Instructions.

In fact, sounds humanistic and opposed to God. (very very common)

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I’m a Christian. I am not a humanist nor opposed to God. I think your comments are a bit too much.

Trust Jesus. Believe His Word. Simple and Truth.

No, your perspective on the kingdom are not aligned with mine, and likely not with the other one , but he may speak for himself.
I've avoided quoting or replying to the errors posted because I do not have the inclination nor the time to do so, nor have I seen anything effective or accomplished by doing so.

Learning always said:

Your art of expression is beyond me. Please speak in simple style.

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The plans to over-throw the country have been planned for centuries.

Wait a minute. Why is this a story American drink driver kill people every day. We need to dedend our illegal alien friends.

Hentenza said:

Sure but the search for knowledge will continue. Think of it this way, God created everything and gave man the ability to reason which gives man the curiosity to discover knowledge. The exploration of space will continue even beyond my life and yours.

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Not good. Not subject to Jesus nor to God's Word nor His Instructions.

In fact, sounds humanistic and opposed to God. (very very common)

The Liturgist said:

Indeed, rather I owed to my friend @FenderTL5 for explained what my belief was in greater detail sparing me from having to do so myself.



No, for this reason - there are multiple interpretations possible of much of Scripture. The Orthodox Church has, only in a small number of cases, expressly determined what the correct interpretation is (or more often, what the correct interpretation is not). For example, those who read Matthew 28:19 and assume the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are modes, rather than distinct persons of the Holy Trinity, as did Sabellius in antiquity and the Oneness churches today, are, by our doctrine as expressed in the Nicene Creed as revised at the Second Ecumenical Council at Constantinple in 381, in error.

However, from Scripture we can say its possible that St. John the Beloved Disciple, for example, was a young teenager at the time of his discipleship (we know he was younger than his brother St. James the Great), and thus I hold to a private theologoumemnon that at the time of the Great and Holy Pascha in 33 AD where Christ our True God died on the Cross and rose again on the morning of the First Day in order to trample down death by death and remake us in His image, on those in the tombs bestowing life - a view which is doctrine, I have the theological opinion, from Scriptural inferences, that St. John could very well have been between the ages of 13 and 16 (16 if we say that he must have completed Bar Mitzvah before becoming a disciple of our Lord and if we say that the practice of Bar Mitzvah was at the time exactly that as it is now in contemporary Judaism, less than 16 if we relax that assumption).

The more widely held Theolougoumemon that the majority of the Apostles were young by our standards, in their late teens to mid twenties, is fairly common based on life expectancy at the time and the perilous nature of navigation on the Sea of Galilee.

In both cases we see a belief which is based on an interpretation of Scripture, where neither Scripture nor the early Church Fathers a definite answer on the correct interpretation, and thus formal dogmatic theology is silent, but nonetheless, there is enough implied in Scripture for the formation of a theological opinion.

Theological opinions would not be theological if they did not begin and end with Scripture, for all Orthodox beliefs, whether official doctrine or theologoumemna flow from Scripture, even those which pertain to events in the life of the Early Church recorded by the Fathers but not in Scripture itself, for example, the Dormition of the Theotokos, which is doctrine, and flows from Scripture, which clearly attests to the uniquely blessed nature of the Theotokos, her extreme holiness, her willingness to risk being stoned under false accusations of adultery had St. Joseph been less kindly and had he not been persuaded by the divine revelation he received, and her imperative instruction to all of us to do what Christ tells us to in the Water into Wine pericope in the Gospel According to John.

But in some cases, Scripture is unclear, and we lack an official doctrine. Indeed, in some cases it is so unclear as to be inscrutable - based on 2 Peter 1:20, this verse can, among other things, be read as meaning that in the case of prophetic Scripture, the answer is unknowable, and we know this to be the case regarding precise moment in time when Christ will return - so no Orthodox Christian would dare embarrass themselves by offering a theologoumemnon in which they presumed to calculate a date for His return; indeed doing so would be to us an indication that that member had fallen into prelest (which means spiritual delusion).

But in other cases, for example, the exact nature of Speaking in Tongues, there is enough information for a large number of Orthodox faithful, based on Scripture and the experience of the Church, to form a Theologoumemnon which is consistent with Scripture and flows organically from what is described in Scripture.

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The Liturgist said:

I should add, I occasionally encounter members who believe there is only one obvious interpretation possible of Scripture, but this clearly isn’t the case, for even those who have sought to construct, from Scripture alone, a comprehensive exegesis of the entire Bible, without reference to church tradition, have produced variant output. For this reason, theologians and preachers ranging from Karl Barth to John Nelson Darby to Chuck Smith have each proposed interpretations of Scripture which agree on certain obvious portions but which disagree on numerous other details. And likewise, these interpretations also all clash both with earlier Protestant and Catholic systematic theology that refers to church history and tradition, such as that of the Confessional Lutherans, of John Calvin and of Thomas Aquinas, and also with the ancient Patristic exegesis so well summarized by St. John of Damascus, which forms the basis for Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox theology until the present.*

Since this is not the case, it therefore follows that there will be some questions of scriptural interpretation which have not been resolved in Orthodoxy and other denominations, such as Lutheranism, to be subject to formal dogmatic definitions. These unresolved issues, mostly of secondary importance, which Lutherans refer to as adiaphora, are the province of theologoumemna.

For, just as the Lutherans would later do, the leaders of the Byzantine, Syrian, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopian, and Indian churches, like their Roman counterparts, would, through a series of church councils, come to form, on the basis of Scripture, liturgical tradition, ecclesiastical experience and Patristic analysis, agree upon doctrinal definitions to cover the most pressing and controversial issues.

Yet, since going past that point would risk division over trivial issues, instead, like Lutherans in the realm of adiaphora, Orthodox Christians in the realm of theologoumemna have the freedom to hold such views as are not contrary to church doctrine or without Scriptural basis (the two are the same thing, from our perspective, for to quote St. Isidore of Seville, Scripture is in the interpretation, not the reading), provided of course we do so with humility and the recognition that holding such opinions too tightly might be unwise, since we are outside the realm of defined dogma, meaning we could well be proven completely wrong. Perhaps St. John was 25 at the time Christ our True God was cruficied; I do not know, I have an opinion, but I do not claim it to be definitive.

*And which also continues to influence many in other denominations, such as Confessional Lutheranism, as demonstrated by anything written by @ViaCrucis , Anglicanism, such as the Caroline Divines, the non-Juring Scottish Episcopalians, John Wesley and the Methodist movement during his lifetime, and the later Anglo-Catholics).

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Please highlight were you have addressed the topic of the thread.

Thank you.

A New Dawn said:

FYI, the Doctrines of Grace are what you call Calvinism. TULIP = the Doctrines of Grace. All TULIP does is acknowledge and elucidate how God uses grace for salvation.

Also, another FYI, Augustine was the first to fully grasp the same concepts of salvation through grace that TULIP teaches. So, seeing your hatred for Calvinism and salvation by grace, I have no interest in your supposed “help”. But when you come to understand that Augustine and Calvin were on the same side of the discussion of salvation by grace, come and get me and I will help you out.

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Yes, I know of TULIP, of course, and I'm aware that Calvinism virtually adopted Augustine as their own due mainly to his work and emphasis on grace in battling Pelgianism. And the Catholic Church, BTW, calls him the Doctor of Grace-and the CC has the correct understanding and application of that work, as well, which is where you need help.

I suppose our only option is illegal labor?

I actually can think of several options beside that.

Guojing said:

So are you saying you are Israel?

That was what I was actually asking.

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No...not that it matters here

Good on her. I liked her music when I was a young Christian. She can now sing in her grand daddy's church.

jonojim1337 said:

Ok so what’s this

View attachment 371406

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I'll bite, what is it?

jonojim1337 said:

Caesar’s household

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Were Nazis? That's quite a stretch, innit? Is this the Lizard Kings again?

dms1972 said:

As regards the woman, she should have walked away, nothing required her to keep listening.

As regards your friend, was he really evangelising, or was he engaging in eristics?

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He was arguing that we are more than just an evolutionary process. This means he was arguing for the existence of a creator.
Sometimes, we need to show a person that God exists to start off with. Then, once they think that there is a God, we need to tell them the Gospel.
So, he was still evangelising. He may not have been telling the Gospel, but he was getting the person to come to the conclusion of the first point, that we are not an evolutionary process and that there is a creator.

essentialsaltes said:

Did it? Who were they? What were their names? What are they charged with? It's been a week and I haven't seen any information about it.

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Officials told TPM the apartment building in Chicago's South Shore was a "location known to be frequented by Tren de Aragua members and their associates." The crimes that have been committed by all those arrested include, but were not "limited to aggravated battery, discharge of a firearm, retail theft, possession charges and possession of a controlled substance."


Are you entitled to their names? How soon do you personally need information. Maybe you ought to contact DHS and demand to know everything. I mean since you have a right to know.

Oompa Loompa said:

So Jesus knew how hurtful his words would be for the woman, but told her that she had to change her sinful lifestyle anyway. No different than if I told a gay couple that their relationship is sinful and they need to end it.

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You really think Jesus had hurtful intent behind his words to the woman caught in adultery? I find that concept bizarre and sub-Christian.

The rest is just a bad analogy, but I think it flows from the fundamental misunderstanding of the context in which Jesus addresses the woman caught in adultery.

Aaron112 said:

Why do you feel as if attached? I merely answered your post(s).

Simply flying airplanes is very expensive .... even more so planning to go to space or the moon.

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Sure but the search for knowledge will continue. Think of it this way, God created everything and gave man the ability to reason which gives man the curiosity to discover knowledge. The exploration of space will continue even beyond my life and yours.

Aaron112 said:

Why? Do you believe someone is not trying to over-throw the country ? (actually the plans are centuries old)

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Your art of expression is beyond me. Please speak in simple style.

bèlla said:

Are you hoping that’s the case? I think their position is largely influenced by their overseers. The invisible hands behind the monolith. I’ve never believed politicians were running the show. Including the president.

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Ok so you have identified that there is some power or motivating factor that can force the State to adhere to certain ideologies or agendas. So the State is never neutral and can either be beholden to certain ideaologies from individuals and groups they side with. Or just their basic ideology as a party is antagonistic to opposing beliefs as we have seen in the culture wars.

They may descriminate against certain groups and deny funding merely because of a disagreement of ideological beliefs. Not facts or science or the truth about whats best. But merely because they don't like the other groups beliefs.

bèlla said:

I know what you’d like me to say but I can’t. The bible provides enough examples about christian’s place in the world and our hardships. Why we exacerbate the latter is beyond me.

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Are you saying that Christians or Christian organisations who may be descriminated against should accept that descrimination as part of the hardships they must endure. Say nothing.

I understand that we must not get into culture wars and make Christianity political. Like some sort of theocracy on earth through political or worldlly power. That is more or less becoming the world.

But where is the line. To what extent can a Christian organisation exist in the world without being the world. Maybe thats why I think Christians should be offering help for free. No strings attached and no obligations to anyone but God. But then they will still have to abide by the worlds ideologies.

Peter and Paul say Christians should be subject to the authroities even if they are unjust. Be Christlike and submit even if its unfair as the good example will turn people to God.

bèlla said:

Someone suggested that was the case in a previous post.

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I am not sure. If this is the case then it must be that people are assigned certain areas or health carers that are in their area. Like schools. So maybe that is the only hospital in her area. But then how can the hospital refuse to treat her if its suppose to be her care facility. \

Its also weird that a person would want to go to a hospital that could have actually caused her death. I would be staying well away lol. She would have to be at some other hospital now as she needs to be treated. I don't know.

bèlla said:

There was a time when I contemplated running a charity. But I decided against it for many reasons including the above.

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I mean setting up your home kitchen to cook meals for the needy is one one. But even then you have to be careful as it gets to a point where you have to start worrying about registrations, workplace health and safety ect.

But people still do it. They cannot help but start grassroots movements in helping others. They try and keep it quiet and do it in the background. I know of many who are driving round at night with meals and blankets helping those on the streets.

bèlla said:

Nothing in the world is free. Including charity. Someone must earn the means or create the resources you dispense. It doesn’t fall from the sky.

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Yes and thats those more able. A big cost is labor but as Christians doing it for no return helps a lot. This is how social welfare began with organisations like the Salvos. What you notice is that its infectous and then others come out and donate and want to help. It can be done for little money.

bèlla said:

Given the level of litigation in our society and the malpractice insurance rates they pay. I’d assume there‘s profit involved even if it appears otherwise. It’s a risky business.

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Obviously if your going to work with others you have to have some minimal costs like insurance and any State fees. But musch can be done with volunteers. I mean are not Christians suppose to help others like the Good Samaritan. Pool all their resources and help the poor. Even going without themselves.

Otherwise Christianity becomes just another version of corporate society in the world.

bèlla said:

How do you intend to do that? Or what have you done? I’ve noticed a pattern on the site concerning this subject. You only quote the bible and say what should occur. But I rarely hear personal tales. It’s kind of odd.

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First forget about what anyone has done. Either the bible is correct or its not. Christ and the disciples are clear. We are to help the poor even if that means sacrificing our own place in the world as far as riches and comforts. So it doesn't matter what others do as its a truth teachings.

MOst people agree Christians have become too comfortable with one foot in each world. Unlike the early church which proves its possible. We just forgot and the world has overtaken.

But ultimately the worlds suppose to hate Christ and Christians. So it doesn't matter as a true Christian will be called to stand up and suffer anyway. As for myself I try to help as much as I can. I am disabled so I cannot do a lot. But any work I have done has been to help others and now I volunteer as one of those free workers that helps run a organisation that helps the disadvantaged. I could do more.

bèlla said:

@Carl Emerson posed a question along these lines and I responded to the thread. My answer was based on something I drafted for myself concerning patronage and the direction I want us to take in our household. When the desire to give is deeply felt you do things like that. You don’t speak in platitudes or wag your finger. You put things in place and act.

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I think principly Christianity is not something that is always felt. Like the person has to feel in the mood for giving or helping. I think its a duty and even when we don't feel like it. Its something we have to make a priority even over our choices of work and personal investments ect that will create some nest egg and empire in this world.

Now I know this is incredibly hard especially in a consumer, modern tech and material world. But that is the aim. It will depend of course on family commitments as the bible says we have to first look after our family. How can we help others if we cannot look after our own family. But as a family that can make us stronger as a group to help others as well.

But its hard and ultimately its up to each individual and what they believe is right for them in their situation. But definitely I think we are to give up the world as much as we can and trust God.

Otherwise I think there will come a time where just being a Christian in this world will be too hard for many because by nature this world hates Christians and one way or another whether they voluntarily sacrifice themselves or not. They will suffer if they are truely standing with Christ.

bèlla said:

I’m not suggesting you‘ve done so with your post but it’s something I’ve noticed. And I‘ve been in circles where philanthropy is the norm and joined an organization known for its generosity in my twenties. I wasn’t walking with the Lord at the time but my commitment to patronage was great.

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It is natural for people to help others. But Christians are suppose to do it in secret. NOt tell others. As then it becomes about self rather than God. Theres a new phenomena called PC and social marketing which is all about the organisations social imprint and how this itself is now a marketable aspect of business in scoring brownie points in the eyes of society.

bèlla said:

I mentioned the value of a moral compass earlier and your comment has me weighing it once more. Many of the things I do aren’t on account of my faith. I don’t need the bible to tell me to give, live decently and so on. The desire to do so is already there. Perhaps that‘s why christians struggle so much. You’re working against your nature. It’s easier to follow the current than swim against it.

~bella

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I find desire is a feeling that can come and go and hard to maintain. Whereas as a principle helping others is a duty. A fruit that tells us we are in Christ and not of the world. Ultimately sacrificing ones life for another for no return. Which goes against human feeling and instinct.

This is suppose to be the Christian calling and its a matter of judgement as to whether we are truely in Christ or just weekend Christians.

Michie said:

I agree. It can turn into a phobia of sorts. Among many other things.

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The subject of the end of the world is affected by my OCD. In fact I just emailed my pastor (priest) about this again today.

AvilaSurfer said:

Zzzzzzzzzzz. This long boring car is over. Have fun.

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Yeah - facts are a bit much when they challenge firmly held personal opinions

Hentenza said:

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread? And why are you attacking me?

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Why do you feel as if attached? I merely answered your post(s).

Simply flying airplanes is very expensive .... even more so planning to go to space or the moon.

Aaron112 said:

Wrong. Do not assume things that have no evidence.

Rather - instructions for the well-to-do (rich): BE GENEROUS taking care of the poor, do not increase their suffering nor lower or forget their wages. Do not pay a few in excess of what they rightly earn, do not take from the poor to increase the rich.

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What does this have to do with the topic of this thread? And why are you attacking me?

Learning always said:

Pardon? What you said doesn't make any sense to me.

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Why? Do you believe someone is not trying to over-throw the country ? (actually the plans are centuries old)