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Tuur · 2025-10-20T18:16:23-0500

Fervent said:
You do realize most of those southern democrats became republicans under Nixon's southern strategy, do you not? Republicans are no longer the party of the urban interests pushing progressive ideals, they are the party of "individual liberty" and de-centralized authority. At least they were, when they stood by their ideals.

I was there. Anyone who was remembers LBJ bowing out, George Wallace running and taking most of the South, and Humphrey taking Texas. If you check, you'll find Nixon took most of the states. I look forward to an analysis of how the "Southern strategy" won the state of Wisconsin.

In 1972, the biggest thing to help Nixon was McGovern, which made the whole Watergate thing ironic. The Nixon win that year was a true landside. Guess it was the "Southern strategy that won New York State for Nixon - New York State went for Humphry in 1968.

McGovern did much to crack the Democrat hold. Reagan widened the cracks further. By the time George H.W. Bush ran for a second term, some were trying to start an alternate party (not Perot - another effort) rather than vote Republican.

Of course, not much is said out that, or of Bryd remaining a Democrat, or the lesser known Lester Maddox, or the even lesser-known-than-he J.B. Stoner. I personally heard Stoner TV ads that used the "N" word.

Now we come to the point where this eyewitness to such will be told he is wrong, that what he saw didn't happen;.

NxNW · 2025-10-20T18:15:44-0500

RestoreTheJoy said:
Really? Trump pardoned random roving gangs on the street who attacked others in carjacking attempts? Don't think so.

Trump pardoned a thousand criminals who brutally attacked others while trying to assassinate the Vice President and Speaker of the House.

The Liturgist · 2025-10-20T18:13:25-0500

Ain't Zwinglian said:
One of the more bogus early church beliefs comes from the credobaptists. Some assert infant baptism is rooted in historical pandemics. In the words of Franceso Arduini "The rationale behind infant baptism was simple: to guarantee salvation for the babies before they could be ripped from their parents’ arms by the merciless disease."

If true, such a seismic shift of belief and practice from credobaptism to paedobaptism would have been commented and debated upon in one of the canons of the early ecumenical councils (Nicea 325 AD, Constantinople 381 AD, Ephesus 431 AD, Chalcedon 451 and others). The purpose of these councils was to clarify Christian doctrine and address heresies, and make binding decisions for the church at large. However, there is no evidence in in these ecumenical councils approved of such a change. Silence.

Historical pandemics is just another attempt by the credos to EXPLAIN AWAY infant baptism altogether.

Even more compelling is that we have both scriptural and ancient liturgical evidence for the baptism and communion of infants.

rjs330 · 2025-10-20T18:11:21-0500

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
The narratives promoted by these protestors—such as claims of authoritarianism or dictatorship—may not have merit, yet millions of Americans subscribe to these perspectives. In a democracy, we do not have the privilege of disregarding public opinion based on personal beliefs. Within a democratic framework, there are two primary approaches: one can work to change public opinion or choose to align with it. Merely criticizing or dismissing public sentiment is generally considered unwise in a democratic society.

Regardless of one's position on these protesters, it is clear that millions of Americans are participating in this movement and intend to voice their dissatisfaction at the polls in thirteen months. Historical trends suggest that when public sentiment is strongly reflected, significant political shifts can occur. For instance, in 2018, a comparatively smaller protest group contributed to Democrats gaining 40 seats in the U.S. Congress. Similarly, the Tea Party movement in 2010, which was notably smaller than the current No King movement, resulted in a 60-seat shift and led to Republican control of Congress for the 2011 legislative year. In 2006, the anti-war movement—less prominent than the No King movement—also shifted Congressional power toward the Democrats. These events illustrate how changes in public opinion have influenced legislative outcomes in recent American history.

Republicans and the White House might label protesters as anti-American, as Speaker Johnson did, then highlight their policy achievements on Fox News to supporters or adjust policies to increase among some Americans who are not part of MAGA movement so there are more then 40% American vote for republican on mid-term. Ultimately, for Republicans to retain control of Congress, they will need broader support beyond their core MAGA base.

The Demeocratic Party has lost a lot of support. The No Kings protests are emblematic of the radical left. In watching videos of the protests in is very apparent that they are do radicalized that they would NEVER give support to Republicans No matter what they did. This is the Democratic Party today. This is who has taken over the party. Mid terms are historically a loss for the Party in power. Its happened to nearly every president. I don't think thats going to happen this time. As long as the economy stays relatively stable and doesn't suddenly tank i think the Republicans keep the house and the senate. Only 27% of Americans have a positive view of Democrats.

Normal Americans do not support the radical left. Democrats are losing voters.

New York Times Report Is Horrifying News For Democratic Party

So unless they make a change ir something happens to the economy the Democrats are going to in trouble the next election. And the longer the Democrats keep the government shut down they will see a decline in support.

RDKirk · 2025-10-20T18:05:13-0500

Hentenza said:
We basically agree here. No one can come to God unless He draws Him and man in its natural state can not come to God but if God draws him (seed) then He can become a believer. This IS the same argument that I made at the beginning of this thread. If natural man can reason God’s existence then God drew him to Him and he then would become a believer.

"Can" become a believer and "would" become a believer are two very different things.

When drawn, it becomes possible for a man to become a believer. Without God making the initial move, it's impossible for a man to become a believer.

But "would" implies that God's call is irresistible, which is not the case...which is what I said at the beginning of this tangent.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T18:05:11-0500

Servus said:
I didn't say it wasn't factual. I said: "Left leaning media showing bad ratings for Trump according to around 1500 subscribers". Specifically it was 1,622 out of 1.25 million subscribers. Which means 892 people disapprove.

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Media Bias Fact check:-

It is widely used, but it has been criticized for its methodology.[6] Scientific studies[7] using its ratings note that ratings from Media Bias/Fact Check show high agreement with an independent fact checking dataset from 2017,[8] with NewsGuard [9] and with BuzzFeed journalists.[10]

Media Bias/Fact Check - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Economist - Bias and Credibility

LEAST BIASED These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using an appeal to emotion

mediabiasfactcheck.com

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T17:59:20-0500

comana said:
I would prefer commercial insurance be completely optional with everyone on Medicare. Medicare is already a proven model that can be configured for universal coverage.

Hmmm - not quite.

The Federal government should:-
1. Have Medicare give universal health cover for life-saving hospital care to all citizens. It's a human right.
2. Buy over half the hospitals so that they are Government Owned and Operated.
3. Create a Federal agency (like Australia's PBS) to buy bulk generic meds and equipment with economies of scale to drive down cost per unit.
These 3 pillars are the only way to cover ALL citizens at HALF the price!
America could save $1 TRILLION a year!
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia

RESULT: Australian citizens go to the doctors more, go earlier, get diagnosed earlier, and treat the condition sooner - which has better outcomes but is also cheaper!
U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

EG: WHY AMERICAN BIG PHARMA HATES AUSTRALIA’S PBS
US pharmaceutical giants urge Trump to put further tariffs on Australia

Delvianna · 2025-10-20T17:59:12-0500

You know, I was having this discussion the other day about people who put too much stock into pastor/priest/pope/denomination teaching and not enough time letting God show you what his own word says and means. People are too scared to go down that road and I get it, fear of getting stuff wrong but why are you using people as your safety net when God should be? Do you not have faith that he can lead his flock? We as a body, are supposed to sharpen each others iron, but no one should have the final say besides God on what the truth is. I seriously think this is the ultimate reason why the church is diverting from truth (2 Timothy 4:3-4). The biggest population under the Protestant umbrella, believe you do not have to be obedient and classify it as legalism instead of a changed heart. But it is only going to get worse from here...

lucypevensie · 2025-10-20T17:59:08-0500

Nice lady

stevevw · 2025-10-20T17:56:33-0500

Fervent said:
It's not quite a US issue, but rather the nature of religions that express moral sentiments. Politics is, in a sense, a public negotiation about what social values the nation will exhibit, and at the heart of the matter is what authority is legitimate. If someone is religious, that's not something that can realistically be compartmentalized. There are no part-time Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or secular humanists. So it is inevitable that religion and politics are going to step on each others toes, unless one is purely subjected to the other.

I like the analogy of 'stepping on each others toes'. It is like that. So you are saying that its inevitable that politics and relaigion will overlapp and conflict in society.

Because fundementally if its about morals and how society should ultimately be ordered then thats not just politics but actually morality or spiritual in that its about an ideological belief about what the world and reality is and how we should order ourselves within that world.

That is why protests and politics have become so personal and about life and death itself. I wonder if this is just a modern phenomena because of how the world is or has become in that all the news is about negative stuff all the time. Or this is a natural evolution of when a society that will ultimately come down to belief. About who is the god of this world.

Fervent said:
Sounds more like Enlightenment humanism than authentic apostolic teaching to me, but there's room for debate.

It can be both though it seems that all truth stem back to biblical truth. You can point out truth principles that align with God in secular thinking without supporting the ideology behind it. That secular ideologies often align with Gods truth is no surprise and I think these truths stand on their own. They are not really the product of Enlightenment or historical ethics but natural truths we know of for just being humans and created by God.

In fact I think much of the truth principles in Constitutions, Declarations and HUman Rights stemmed from a time we were more biblically minded. Part of human and natural rights was that we were created in the image of God. Or had divine nature endowed by a creator of the universe.

This was a transcedent truth we use to base human worth and natural rights. That because they were endowed by a transcedent creator they were divine,. It acknowledge our spiritual and divine nature and that these natural rights could not be taken by humans based on their ideologies. Since this has been taken out we have a battle for who is god and what is the truth about human worth and rights.

So on the one hand there are independent truths morals we can all know which are reflected in the ideologies and politics. BUt without any transcedent basis beyond human ideas then it will inevitably conflict for whose ideology and truth is the way.

Fervent said:
Bound to.

Yes

Fervent said:
The state certainly does align with one set of beliefs or ideology over others. Pluralism is only theoretical, in practice states reflect dominant social philosophies of their day.

I agree

Fervent said:
Which moral truths are universally recognized?

God put His laws in our hearts so its no surprise that they are universally recognised no matter what you call the ideology or philosophy that is theorising or proclaiming them.

Like the idea that human worth is beyond human ideas and that some transcedent basis is necessary otherwise we end up devaluing humans and fighting each other. But thats a hard one for atheists as there is not transcedent entity to ground morality and human worth. We as nations recognised this in our past. But now we reject it and thus a fight over who holds the truth to human worth and moral order.

Its a self evident and fullfilling truth of the ages which cannot be reasoned against and for which we have ample experiences of that show us this truth when we fail to uphold it.

It does not have to be the God of the bible. But it needs to be some transcedent entity that is worthy. But then there is only one truth and thats another debate. The point is this is a fundemental truth principle that comes from God and not humans who are fallible.

Fervent said:
Legitimizing political violence isn't new, and its more a reaction of fear at the authoritarian rhetoric of Trump and Christian nationalists in general that is creating that response.

Yes I think the US is a unique nation in that they have a strong religious past and it is politicised. That a Christian political party can exist and actually do well. Or hold power based on being Christian. In some ways though Christianity is the Way as Christ said becoming politicised about Christianity as in trying to enforce it or any ideology is the very opposite. Christs Way was not the political or ideological way.

In saying that I do understand how Christian concerns can become political. Such as Christian organisations working in social welfare are often involved in advocating for the disadvantaged. Or speaking out of a policy is against their beliefs.

This is the challenge I think in the coming times. As mentioned earlier I think the earlier church did not get involved in politics or the secular ways. They actually insulated themselves to some degree when Paul kept reminding the church to stay away from such ideas. Holding church in secret and now making too much comotion.

But then going out into the world to preach the specific gospel. It was not politics but a simple good news repeated. Then also helping the poor often in quiet and creating the Christian community.

Fervent said:
But the evil world is going to be evil, Christianity shouldn't be reactive and defensive..

Yes good way to put it. Though not too reactive lol. Maybe responsive. Sometimes reactive as in standing to Christs truth no matter what. Pointing out untruths if required. Which may mean saying nothing and showing Christs example to expose the evil.

Peter mentions that we should obey rulers and authorities. That just being Christ like in obedience and submission for good is enough to make the unjust look to God and expose the injustice.

Fervent said:
.Christ said to repay evil with good, to pray for those who persecute us. The Christian nationalist rhetoric seems to be nothing more than an attempt to declare divine sanction for oppressive jingoistic behavior. It is, in my mind, a form of idolatry of the state.

I think in the US particulary but I also see it rising in other nations that politics and religion are becoming mixed. I mean the conflict in the middle east is religion full stop and not Christian. But most nations are conflicting over religious or ideological beliefs which are more or less religion.

Maybe this is the sign of the times as I mentioned earlier that the way we have cultivate society we have created the culture wars which fundementally are coming down to religion and ideological beliefs about how society and this world should be.

In some ways Christians fighting for Gods Kingdom on earth through politics is fighting to create a world kingdom and not Gods Kingdom. But at the same time there are other forces and principalities also fighting for this world.

Nows the time to shine Christ which is about another kind of Kingdom not of this world. Its the only way to differentiate.

Fervent said:
The peace that Christians have enjoyed in America was bound to be a temporary reprieve. When Christ calls a man, he bid him come and die.

So do you think that Christians when called should stand form with Christ even if thats a political situation. We know that the world is what it is and theres no changing that. The world will progress until the end.

But if Christ is correct then like in the early church Christians will be persecuted. In the early church just preaching the gospel got you in trouble. Christians had to hide in many towns.

Where is the line. If the organisation you work for is promoting something against Christian beliefs do you quit. If Christians see an injustice that goes against their beliefs like abortion do they remain quiet.

I think in the old days the church was seperate and would give their position which held some respect. The church was always consulted at least. But now well its even hated.

Fervent said:
I don't think that's realistic, nor adviseable. A man doesn't light a lamp and hide it beneath a barrel.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T17:50:17-0500

Servus said:
Was Marco Rubio lying? If so, what are the real numbers?

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Hang on - that video is over 60 seconds!

You asking me to invest more than a teaspoon of my brain on something MAGA?

Maria Billingsley · 2025-10-20T17:49:55-0500

Delvianna said:
Thank you for your response and you raise a good point. But I'm curious, if you see this as a promotion of Islam or not, since they're being accommodating.

Not at all. Jesus Christ of Nazareth commanded us to spread the Gospel in love. If we can't be willing to share the Gospel to the harvest in our own backyard then we are unfruitful vessels.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T17:49:10-0500

We have high-level political scientists in Australia discussing how bad it is for a nation to see their leader go and prostrate themselves before Trump in the golden throne room, kissing the ring lest they make daddy angry.

Then as a result of "No Kings" day Trump puts up a video of himself as Tom Cruise (with a Crown) in a Maverick jet dropping poo all over the protestors? JD Vance puts up a video of Trump drawing a royal sword on a throne, and his staff bending the knee and touching the floor before him reverentially?

This administration is a cartoon of itself - a walking blustering narcissistic joke.

Because THIS is how a real President posts!

1. KING MAVERICK DROPS POO on CITIZENS

Because he's the mostest Presidential Personage Ever! In a bigly way!

2. POPE TRUMP

Because ranting about how he'd make a great Pope when Trump is the first convicted Felon President - with ambiguity over what's exactly in the Epstein files - is a dignified and statesman like way to behave!

3. RACIST TRUMP

Because - racism sells to a certain base!

4. INSURRECTIONIST TRUMP!

"If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country!"

5. CORRUPT TRUMP

Australian ABC 4 Corners. Watch all 45 minutes. That's just the TIP of the iceberg of how Australian's view this narcissistic entitled grifter! Try watching the 4 Corners specials on Trump's insurrection and electioneering tactics!

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Let alone threatening NATO, Zelenskyy, and even democracy itself.
Q: Should the American President defend the Constitution?
Trump: I dunno

THAT is how the world sees Trump!
THAT is how history will see these terrible embarrassing years.

Christsfreeservant · 2025-10-20T17:47:26-0500

I am reading in Revelation 13. It is a very long passage of Scripture, so I will only be able to quote parts of it. I would recommend, if you have not already, that you read it in its entirety, for it really speaks of the times in which we are living, and where things are headed in my nation (USA), and in the world, now and in the future.

It begins by speaking of a dragon, which represents Satan. Then it speaks of a beast to whom the dragon (Satan) gives his power and his throne and his great authority. The world then worships the dragon and the beast.

I believe the beast represents a king or a singular governing authority which holds supreme and unrestricted power over the world, and which rules his kingdom by absolute monarchy, which is a One World Order. So this is a one world governing tyrannical authority which could be headed by just one man, but is supported by those who swear their allegiance (fidelity) and support to this tyrannical government, as well as it is supported by the wealthy and powerful ruling class of the world who are behind him. And there is no constitution or elected body to limit the monarch’s power.

The citizens of this absolute monarchy, who give their undying support and loyalty and devotion to “the king,” are those who vow to defend its institution and who vow to not conspire to overthrow the government. They are loyal subjects of the government who give their full support to whatever actions are taken by “the king” (the supreme ruler). But should we obey our governing authorities? Yes, but not without question, and not if they are asking us to give our loyalty and devotion and support to them in whatever they do, and/or if they are asking us to sin against God in any other form.

This beastly tyrannical absolute monarchy is also supported by the wealthy and powerful ruling class of the world. They have been called “the shadow government,” who I believe have largely now come out of the shadows, many of whom are blatantly making decisions for the people of the world over which we have no say, much (or all) of which is not for the good of the people but for the advancement of the wealthy and the powerful elite of the world. More and more they are gaining control over our lives and over our destiny while they plot their evil schemes against the citizens of the world.

“It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.” (Revelation 13:7-10 NASB1995)

So, how is this “beast” presently making war with the saints (God’s holy people who are living different from the world because being conformed by God to the likeness of character of Jesus Christ)? Well, depending on where you live in the world will depend upon how Christians are being treated. Here in the USA Christians, so far, have not been persecuted in the ways in which Christians are being persecuted in other nations. Our persecution presently is more geared towards those of us who teach biblical repentance and obedience to God as requirements by God as part of faith in Jesus Christ.

We are being charged with being “negative” and “judgmental” and of teaching “works salvation” or “lordship salvation” as a means of us trying to work our way into heaven. Now are there people doing that? Yes. They are the legalists who add fleshly works and traditions onto the gospel. But if we are teaching the words of Jesus and the words taught by the apostles, in the correct biblical context, we are not in error. And they taught that by faith in Jesus Christ it means that we die to sin and we now obey our Lord, in practice, or we don’t have salvation and eternal life with God.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

But the majority here in the USA, anyway, appear to all be teaching a cheapened form of the gospel, which is a half-truth gospel, which only requires a verbal confession of Christ as Lord and Savior, and of his death and resurrection. Repentance may be mentioned, but often in the context of a mere verbal confession of sin, no change required. And biblical repentance and obedience to God may be taught (or not), but usually as more of a recommendation, but not as required of God for salvation from sin and for eternal life with God. And Satan is against the truth, but he’s for the lies.

Why? Because if Satan can get you to believe that God makes no requirements of you other than a verbal profession of Jesus as Lord, et al, then he has you right where he wants you. And if heads of “church” congregations, and if heads of governments can get you to believe Satan’s lies so that you do not die to sin, and so that you do not obey God, in practice, because you believe you don’t have to, they have you right where they want you, too. For they are prepping you to receive the mark of the beast, because your allegiance is really to them, and not to God.

Will you pledge your undying loyalty and devotion to a human government and to a human ruler or “king”? Or to your pastor or to some celebrity preacher and teacher of the Scriptures? Will you heed their words and follow them unquestionably, assuming that because of who they are, that they are telling you the truth? Or will you pledge (vow) your allegiance (fidelity) to God – Father, Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit – and to him alone? Will you seek out his teachings and obey them above all else? And will you test what other humans say against the correct biblical context to see if it is true?

“Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.” We must be spiritually discerning people who do not become followers of other humans and who do not pledge our absolute loyalty and devotion to any person or to any government or to any institution of human origin, or we might be taken captive by the lies of Satan and end up not truly saved from our sins, and not truly those who will inherit eternal life with God. So please know what Jesus and his apostles taught, in context, for they taught we must die to sin and obey God or we do not have salvation from sin and eternal life with God.

For Our Nation

An Original Work / September 11, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Recording Via Gerry Peters, music producer and arranger

Bombs are bursting. Night is falling.
Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.
Trust Him with your life today.
Make Him your Lord and your Savior.
Turn from your sin. Follow Jesus.
He will forgive you of your sin;
Cleanse your heart, made new within.

Men betraying: Our trust fraying.
On our knees to God we’re praying,
Seeking God to give us answers
That are only found in Him.
God is sovereign over all things.
Nothing from His mind escaping.
He has all things under His command,
And will work all for good.

Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.

Men deceiving: We’re believing
In our Lord, and interceding
For our nation and its people
To obey their God today.
He is our hope for our future.
For our wounds He offers suture.
He is all we need for this life.
Trust Him with your life today.

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Your Pledge of Allegiance
An Original Work / October 20, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Vambram · 2025-10-20T17:45:45-0500

camille70 said:
God's heavy hitters smack down Trump, ‘the lying, criminal predator’

Prominent American religious leaders are joining protests against the manifest evils of the Trump Administration.

independentaustralia.net

God's heavy hitters smack down Trump

Not my title. Posted for comments from religious leaders on the mass deportations.

-----

Recently-installed Pope Leo XIV met this month with the Bishop of El Paso, Mark Seitz, and senior Catholic welfare director Dylan Corbett as violence by Trump’s goons against refugees and citizens alike was raging.

The Pontiff told his two countrymen:

The church cannot stay silent before injustice. You stand with me. And I stand with you.

You have in your hands a very important task: to accompany those who are deeply in need of a sign that God never abandons us: the smallest, the poorest, the foreigner — everyone.

----

Pat Khanke is a retired conservative Evangelical minister, a published author and now an internet video producer. He was a lifelong Republican-voting anti-abortion campaigner and while still pro-life, is no longer pro-GOP.

Khanke's gentle-Jesus manner has recently morphed into a scathing condemnation of Trump’s sexual predation and criminality:

Corruption isn’t going to fix itself. Whatever else the MAGA movement is and whatever else Donald Trump might be, Trump and MAGA are corrupt to the core. And corruption is only going to embed itself deeper until it’s rooted out. Trump’s rhetoric about draining the swamp was always dishonest. He is the most corrupt president in history. And now he has corrupted the Republican Party and he is corrupting every institution of government. And he’s corrupting the Christian groups who thought that he might be serving their interests.

Khanke urged all believers to abandon the MAGA movement:

“Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, I’m not going to vote for a lying, criminal predator, especially in the name of Jesus, because obviously that’s sick, and offensive.... You don’t vote for the criminal.”

Obviously, those religious leaders disagree with many other religious leaders and millions upon millions of Christians who support President Donald Trump.

Delvianna · 2025-10-20T17:42:29-0500

Maria Billingsley said:
They are scholars not proselytizers. The why I see it, the longer they are able to stay the longer they learn about truth in Christ.

Thank you for your response and you raise a good point. But I'm curious, if you see this as a promotion of Islam or not, since they're being accommodating.

FaithT · 2025-10-20T17:41:05-0500

I have MS but have been doing well for years, or so I thought. I stopped seeing my neurologist a few years ago because I felt fine, except for some symptoms I didn’t know could be MS related. Now I think that maybe they are. Among other things, I’ve had two episodes in the past month where 1) I couldn’t get up off the floor from putting my socks on and hubby had to help me up. My legs wouldn’t support me, and 2) another one where I couldn’t get out of bed….arms were too weak and couldnt roll over and sit up. I have an appointment with a Neurology NP later this week. It’s kind of early in the day, at a time I’m usually not up yet and I’m anxious I’ll have a panic attack and anxious about what the NP is going to say or do to me. Please pray for me that this is all MS related and not something even worse and please pray I get through the appointment without freaking out. Thanks in advance.

Maria Billingsley · 2025-10-20T17:38:50-0500

Delvianna said:
"The Vatican Apostolic Library, one of the world’s most prestigious repositories of religious scholarship, has confirmed it now provides a dedicated prayer space for Muslim academics visiting its collections. This move has ignited passionate debate about the growing ties between the Vatican and Islam."

Vatican Opens Muslim Prayer Room Sparking Fierce Debate

The Vatican Apostolic Library, one of the world's most prestigious repositories of religious scholarship, has confirmed it now provides a dedicated prayer space for Muslim academics visiting its collections. This move has ignited passionate debate about the growing ties between the Vatican and...

israel365news.com

I'm curious what you guys think about it?

They are scholars not proselytizers. The way I see it, the longer they are able to stay the longer they learn about truth in Christ.

Fervent · 2025-10-20T17:38:14-0500

Colo Millz said:
From Enlightenment rationalism, which has produced only monsters.

My question was more rhetorical, because they claim they're not representing a particular worldview as if the values they want to push were simply pulled from thin air as brute facts. The fact that they're likely serious and believe their values are just basic human values and not specific to their worldview just shows the extent that their worldview is privileged in public discourse.

Delvianna · 2025-10-20T17:34:19-0500

"The Vatican Apostolic Library, one of the world’s most prestigious repositories of religious scholarship, has confirmed it now provides a dedicated prayer space for Muslim academics visiting its collections. This move has ignited passionate debate about the growing ties between the Vatican and Islam."

Vatican Opens Muslim Prayer Room Sparking Fierce Debate

The Vatican Apostolic Library, one of the world's most prestigious repositories of religious scholarship, has confirmed it now provides a dedicated prayer space for Muslim academics visiting its collections. This move has ignited passionate debate about the growing ties between the Vatican and...

israel365news.com

I'm curious what you guys think about it?

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T17:33:57-0500

Servus said:
ICE wouldn't need to be so large of a force if Biden and Harris had maintained border control.

1. Immigrants put more into the American GDP and commit less crime than American born citizens - so what's the problem?
2. There was a flood of people when Biden came in - and then Kamala travelled around South America and started to fix the PUSH factors - and immigration started to drop off WITHOUT wasting umpteen billion dollars on ICE?
3. Did you know there were countries SOUTH of the border 'wall'? Imagine that!? Imagine GOING THERE to find out what was wrong - and what was DRIVING people into the USA? Instead of just locking up the flood that comes - how about finding the source of that flood.
4. (Better stop now - approaching too many words and thoughts for you.)

Hentenza · 2025-10-20T17:33:12-0500

RDKirk said:
The evangelist is the sower. The evangelist is the sower even in 1 Corinthians 3:

“What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things
Again, the sower is the evangelist planting the seed, but it's God who makes the gospel grow in the soil. The soil cannot transform itself. That idea doesn't even work as a parable, because those farm-knowledgeable people knew that soil does not transform itself.

You are misunderstanding 1Cor. 3.

“And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people? For when one person says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not ordinary people?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it | New American Standard Bible

And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it

bible.com

The immature ChristIans of Corinth are taking favorites in which teachings they want to follow, Paul or Apollo, rather than following the teachings of the apostles as a whole. Even today people have their favorite pastors and will follow their preaching sometimes without question.

“What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now the one who plants and the one who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭5‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 Corinthians 3:5-6 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020)

What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.

bible.com

This continues that conversation but makes it clear that the one who is in charge is God not Paul or Apollo. Since God is the one thst grows and since they are God’s field then they need to mature IN God not in Paul or Apollo.

God causes the growth but these people are already Christians and they need to mature with God’s help. Once a person is justified then they need to cooperate with God in their sanctification. This is the deep teaching of this chapter. Paul even goes to explain in the following verses how these people will be judged based on their works performed during sanctification. There are many choices that the believers choose here that leads to the rewards that they will get at judgement time. The choice to mature is with the person so the choices a person makes can change the soil. Again, the soil is not static.

RDKirk said:
But in Romans:

Romans 8:7 – “The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.”

“Mind governed by the flesh” refers to the natural, unregenerate human mind. The verse underscores human inability to turn to God or obey His law without divine intervention. This is the passage in Romans that explicitly states inability, not just unwillingness: the fleshly mind is incapable of submission to God apart from the Spirit.

The natural mind is hostile and incapable, but through union with Christ, the believer is freed from sin and empowered to live righteously. Human agency is insufficient apart from God’s grace, and obedience is a result of God’s work, not human effort alone.

We basically agree here. No one can come to God unless He draws Him and man in its natural state can not come to God but if God draws him (seed) then He can become a believer. This IS the same argument that I made at the beginning of this thread. If natural man can reason God’s existence then God drew him to Him and he then would become a believer. The scriptures is full of scriptures that teach that man alone is incapable of coming to Christ in their fallen state.

RDKirk said:
The soil cannot transform itself.

People choices can transform the soil once the call has been made.

eclipsenow · 2025-10-20T17:31:35-0500

BCP1928 said:
But they still would be committing the worst crime of all--contaminating the purity of our cultural heritage. How are you going to stop them from doing that?

I know right? "Poisoning the blood" and "eating the dogs!"

Honestly - that rich entitled racist narcissist - how did America elect him?

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