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Akita Suggagaki · 2025-06-30T16:36:34-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
1) Dictation (or Mechanical) Theory - God dictated exact words for certain people to write.
2) Verbal, Plenary Theory - God inspired the words which each writer chose to use.
3) Dynamic Theory - A dynamic is involved between the Holy Spirit and the writers; the bible is God's Ideas using human abilities.
4) Concursive Theory - Like the Dynamic Theory, but maintains that the dynamic is a mystery which can't be fully explained.
5) Sacramental Theory - Generally, God uses physical things and people to signify His meanings to and through His people.
6) Partial, Limited or Degrees Theory - Some parts of the Bible may be directly influenced by God; other parts are people's attempts to represent what they have experienced or learned about God.
7) Dialectical Theory - The biblical authors write under the influence of God in and through the experience of their lives.
8) Humanized Theory - Just as it sounds: humans write what they think God is and thinks.
And I, myself, would add
9) Existential, Critical Theory - We find the Bible in this world, such as it is from the past, with its claims of divine influence; and we have to wrestle with these claims as best as we can, and we do so now, in THIS current life and time with the epistemic limitations that we have. If we believe the message, we believe God motivated the writers to live and write .And per @Fervent's suggestion10) Canonical/Collective Memory: The Bible represents the collective memory of the interactions with God among His people as they came to be agreed upon within His people.

I think my Process side is showing when I see most of these as complementary rather than exclusive.

BCP1928 · 2025-06-30T16:32:00-0500

SimplyMe said:
Because it was found that laissez-faire capitalism does not work, and forgive me if that isn't what you mean by "free market capitalism." When we've come closest to it, it has led to individuals controlling the market and actually preventing free markets. It has led to child labor, unsafe working conditions, and subsistence level wages (which is why we had to have child labor, parents could not earn enough for families in the factories).

Right. Laissez-fair is not the same as free markets. Free markets require regulatory oversight to make sure that the conditions required for a free market continue to exist.

SimplyMe said:
So, yes, in response we've allowed provided protections, so that no one person/company (or group of companies colluding together) can control the market of a particular good or resource. It let to child labor laws, to protections for labor unions (since there were "wars" when companies attempted to use violence to quell worker strikes), etc.

And let's quit using "Neo-liberalism" as some type of boogeyman; if there was a single, strong definition I likely wouldn't care. The issue is, it is being used so liberally that the term is meaningless on this forum. This is particularly true when you use the term to refer to Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, and even Democrats -- each being different politically.

There certainly isn't a single strong definition--or a short one. In general neoliberalism calls for markets and trade dominated by a relatively few large corporate entities with strong social disciple of the workforce. The varients tend to be about how that discipline is to be achieved, with or without safety nets, who will win the culture war, how autocratic the government has to be. etc. But both parties are into it (think NAFTA) because that's what bankrolls them. Do we need a new word? Bernie just calls it "oligarchy" and stressed the difference between that and authentic free markets.

BNR32FAN · 2025-06-30T16:31:42-0500

Valletta said:
Congressman calls on Noem, Dr. Oz with plan to 'swiftly remove' 1.4 million illegal migrants on Medicaid

Texas Congressman Wesley Hunt told Fox News Digital he is calling on Noem and Dr. Oz to establish a task force to remove 1.4 million illegal migrants receiving Medicaid.

www.foxnews.com

California in particular has a lot of illegals on Medicaid.

Yeah I don’t know why the government hasn’t been doing their job. And before people start shouting Biden this and Biden that, this has been going on for decades before Biden was in office. It’s due to government complacency. Finally somebody is doing something to fix the complacency, fraud, and downright laziness of government agencies. I only wish Trump had done this during his first term but better late than never.

Fervent · 2025-06-30T16:29:50-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
I like that. I think I'll add that in.

It's roughly how Orthodoxy tends to think of Scripture as far as I understand it, with an emphasis on an ongoing tradition that the canonical Scriptures are the central normative element of. WHich is part of why they don't usually get caught up in the literalist controversies that plague other wings of Christianity

Aseyesee · 2025-06-30T16:28:59-0500

Literal or not, God had to start somewhere ... but it all speaks to the selfsame process of a son being revealed in us as us (no gender implied) ... whether it was or not is in itself a distraction ... faith opens the door to/of knowledge ...

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-06-30T16:28:54-0500

Fervent said:
Fair enough, I was just pointing out that the question of Adam and Eve's historical existence is independent from their status as sole human progenitors. Both textually and secularly we have reason to suspect that there's something else going on in the Genesis narratives than a straightforward historical account.

Yes, without doubt. Especially if it was put into written form after the exile.

dlamberth · 2025-06-30T16:28:44-0500

Fervent said:
Yeah, look I get you're trying to put out a certain degree of magnanamity and build bridges but ultimately there is no fellowship between Jesus and Belial. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. And no matter how hard naturalists try to incorporate morality into their schemes, ultimately it's a poor fit because without an ability to generate objective value statements we're all just grasping around in a dark cave and the only imperative is the biological imperative to pass on one's genes by hook or by crook.

In reading your arguments I get the impression that human natural things that make us more human, things like compassion, empathy, love, helping the elders and those in need and so forth, things that are at the heart of the Human experience, because they do not meet some sort of "objective values" is than not a moral compass that we follow? And that unless something is written down as rules and regulations, that becomes the only true moral standard?

fhansen · 2025-06-30T16:27:09-0500

Clare73 said:
Relevance to "enlightening, tasting"?

"Enlightening and tasting", of the heavenly gift, are revelation: gifts of the Spirit, as is escaping the pollution oif the world through the knowlegde of Christ. The person is moved by God and yet not compelled to remain there, in Him. Similarly "true faith" can still be denied as the will of man makes his choice between conflicting values:

Clare73 said:
The apostate's faith was not true faith. . .of the Holy Spirit.
It was counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23).

Here's an example:
"Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human praise more than praise from God." John 12:42-43

Fervent · 2025-06-30T16:27:03-0500

Akita Suggagaki said:
It makes more sense to me to see them as representatives of all those early humans who responded to a sense of conscience and relationship with God.

Fair enough, I was just pointing out that the question of Adam and Eve's historical existence is independent from their status as sole human progenitors. Both textually and secularly we have reason to suspect that there's something else going on in the Genesis narratives than a straightforward historical account.

durangodawood · 2025-06-30T16:25:54-0500

bèlla said:
What portion of the list is lacking from your perspective?

~bella

Depends how we're tabulating it. By cost? By number of line items? I dont even know quite where to start with answering that. I could probable expand "basic safety net" into a dozen or so different things, for instance.

SimplyMe · 2025-06-30T16:25:10-0500

probinson said:
I did. It's fixed.

It is absolutely true that heavier vehicles cause greater road wear and it is absolutely true that EVs weigh considerably more than their equivalent ICE counterparts. Therefore, it is absolutely true that EVs cause greater road wear than their ICE equivalents.

Did you read what I wrote and the link I provided? How much damage does a 3,000 pound car do, compared to a 4,000 pound car, compared to a 5,000 pound pick-up, compared to an 80,000 pound semi? I'm sorry, the vast majority of road damage -- per your own link -- is from diesel powered semi-trucks and trailers. Also, the fact remains the fastest selling ICE vehicles tend to be just as heavy, if not heavier, than the standard EV sold -- again, 5,000 pound SUVs and trucks (the most popular ICE vehicles) tend to weigh more than 4,000 pound EVs (since mid-sized EVs are the vast majority of EVs sold).

And why is there no concern about the road damage done by the best selling vehicle in the US, the F-150 (which is up to 6,000 lbs as an ICE vehicle, heavier than EV cars), but only about EVs? Surely if EV cars or so terrible at road damage, we should consider banning pickup trucks unless you have a legitimate need for your business?

Ignatius the Kiwi · 2025-06-30T16:25:08-0500

David French is the epitome of the modern conservative. Conserving nothing and embracing progressivism.

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-06-30T16:22:47-0500

Fervent said:
I'd disagree with this, though with a bit of nuance. We need not take them to be the first, but perhaps the first to commune with God. The Genesis narratives serve not necessarily as a literal historical narrative, but as a way of connecting Israel with the God that is ultimately responsible for all of creation. As such, we can accept Adam and Eve as genuine historical figures and the founders of the family line that led to the nation of Israel. Even within the first few chapters of Genesis there are hints that there are people whose existence is omitted from the narrative, such as the sudden appearance of cities that might pose a threat to Cain.

It makes more sense to me to see them as representatives of all those early humans who responded to a sense of conscience and relationship with God.

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:20:59-0500

Michie said:
Been praying Riley and will continue to do so for your relief!

Thank you! I appreciate it very much! I am seeing the ENT tomorrow!

God bless!

Vambram · 2025-06-30T16:20:50-0500

Fantine said:
Only because he is fortunate enough to have the most reasonable, most comprehensive Healthcare in the United States, the Veterans Administration. Yes socialized medicine provides the best Healthcare in the United States, at the most reasonable price.

I disagree that socialized medicine provides the best health care in the United States. Also, as a veteran, I have found that VA clinics and VA hospitals to be woefully inadequate and inefficient.

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:20:37-0500

Michie said:
I like watching the wildlife here.

We have foxes. It rained yesterday, and there is a fox that lives right by us.

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:20:14-0500

I did when I was in college. There was a monastery attached.

I try to pray the Book of Common Prayer's compline, and I did the readings.

I also used the Universalis app from Laudate on my iPhone.

Clare73 · 2025-06-30T16:19:46-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Right. I get that. You start with the presupposition that the whole Bible is the perfect Word of God, which then affects and transmutes every other human endeavor of thought and all evaluative categories afterward, and they are not used unless they coincide.

Indeed, I start where Jesus started, as demonstrated in post #69, and am not impressed with the modern machinations of man's unbelief in Scripture as the word of God, as Jesus so clearly affirmed.

2PhiloVoid said:
I do the opposite, and then I arrive at the abductive proposition that the Bible represents the general prophetic will of God through, first the Israelite Prophets, and then through Jesus of Nazareth and His Apostles.
I say it a little differently than you do, but I essentially come to a similar view of Jesus as you.
I already have. You should have asked that earlier on. I was waiting for you to get to that point.

Then it should all enjoy the authority of the word of God, be believed and obeyed.

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:19:07-0500

Ora pro nobis!

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:18:30-0500

Michie said:
I’m on the screened in porch off the bedroom but I have air circulation out here which keep it cooler. I like to be outside if possible.

Nice!

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:18:06-0500

Hi all,

I've been dealing with this for quite a few years now.

Please pray for my complete healing in accordance with God's will.

God bless!

Vambram · 2025-06-30T16:17:31-0500

RocksInMyHead said:
Why should you care if Canada places a tax on Amazon or Microsoft? Seriously.

And how is that different from the tariffs that the US has placed on every other country on the planet?

The tariffs were used to address the huge trade deficits America has with other countries because of the unfair trade practices going on between them and the USA.

Fervent · 2025-06-30T16:17:30-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Right. I get that. You start with the presupposition that the whole Bible is the perfect Word of God, which then affects and transmutes every other human endeavor of thought and all evaluative categories afterward, and they are not used unless they coincide.

I do the opposite, and then I arrive at the abductive proposition that the Bible represents the general prophetic will of God through, first the Israelite Prophets, and then through Jesus of Nazareth and His Apostles.

I say it a little differently than you do, but I essentially come to a similar view of Jesus as you.

I already have. You should have asked that earlier on. I was waiting for you to get to that point.

I'm not advocating or prescribing any particular 'brand' or path in understanding inspiration, whatever that is. What I am doing is descriptively discerning my view from that which other Christians hold, and I won't be badgered by anyone into a particular pigeonhole of dogma about the supposed nature of the New Testament (or the Old Testament for that matter) that doesn't really explain much of anything fully or coherently. Of course, I don't really have the nerve or deep desire to want to badger them in return. I prefer mutual understanding.

For your convenience, I'll briefly present in a very summarized (and revisable) way here some of the alternative definitions which all of us Christians have at our disposal, via what I've adapted from Don Thorsen and Keith H. Reeves in their book, What Christians Believe About the Bible (2012):

1) Dictation (or Mechanical) Theory - God dictated exact words for certain people to write.

2) Verbal, Plenary Theory - God inspired the words which each writer chose to use.

3) Dynamic Theory - A dynamic is involved between the Holy Spirit and the writers; the bible is God's Ideas using human abilities.

4) Concursive Theory - Like the Dynamic Theory, but maintains that the dynamic is a mystery which can't be fully explained.

5) Sacramental Theory - Generally, God uses physical things and people to signify His meanings to and through His people.

6) Partial, Limited or Degrees Theory - Some parts of the Bible may be directly influenced by God; other parts are people's attempts to represent what they have experienced or learned about God.

7) Dialectical Theory - The biblical authors write under the influence of God in and through the experience of their lives.

8) Humanized Theory - Just as it sounds: humans write what they think God is and thinks.

And I, myself, would add

9) Existential, Critical Theory - We find the Bible in this world, such as it is from the past, with its claims of divine influence; and we have to wrestle with these claims as best as we can, and we do so now, in THIS current life and time with the epistemic limitations that we have. If we believe the message, we believe God motivated the writers to live and write.

I would add:
10) Canonical/Collective Memory: The Bible represents the collective memory of the interactions with God among His people as they came to be agreed upon within His people.

SimplyMe · 2025-06-30T16:15:58-0500

rjs330 said:
I think you are wrong about that. We haven't really had a free market system in a very long time. Neither party has shown any interest in moving that way. It's the left politically that primarily doesn't believe in them as they want the government through taxes to supply things that should be handled by the free market.

I honestly don't think there are many people who really understand what a free market is.

Because it was found that laissez-faire capitalism does not work, and forgive me if that isn't what you mean by "free market capitalism." When we've come closest to it, it has led to individuals controlling the market and actually preventing free markets. It has led to child labor, unsafe working conditions, and subsistence level wages (which is why we had to have child labor, parents could not earn enough for families in the factories).

So, yes, in response we've allowed provided protections, so that no one person/company (or group of companies colluding together) can control the market of a particular good or resource. It let to child labor laws, to protections for labor unions (since there were "wars" when companies attempted to use violence to quell worker strikes), etc.

And let's quit using "Neo-liberalism" as some type of boogeyman; if there was a single, strong definition I likely wouldn't care. The issue is, it is being used so liberally that the term is meaningless on this forum. This is particularly true when you use the term to refer to Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, and even Democrats -- each being different politically.

RileyG · 2025-06-30T16:15:53-0500

Praying for Jakeb! :prayer:

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