law discussions belong in the law/sabbath area, or controvertial.
- By Abraham1st
- General Theology
- 105 Replies
Anyone got any wisdom, any understanding on these forums, on this particular thread ?
Look below at John 8, and see if anyone can understand the reason why the Pharisees of the law, brought a woman to Jesus to be stoned, and why Jesus wrote on the ground, AS THOUGH HE DIDNT HEAR THEM ? The first simple answer is because The Pharisees we have it testified, did not HEAR MOSES AND THE PROPHETS. ( so would not be persuaded though one rose from the dead. Would not be persuaded by faith.) So LIKEWISE, Jesus does NOT HEAR THEM. The next testimony is that we have it testified again, against the Pharisees or those under the law, that God does NOT HEAR SINNERS. Jesus continues to reveal they are indeed those sinners who are not heard, as all were CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE, when Jesus answered to them, that they are WITH SIN.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If TEY HEAR NOT MOSES AND THE PROPHETS, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
John 9:31 Now WE KNOW THAT GOD HEARETH NOT SINNERS: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, AS THEY HE HEARD THEM NOT.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN AMONG YOU, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And THEY WHICH HEARD IT, BEING CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
What did it also mean that these of the LAW WERE CONVICTED OF THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE ?
It means that is why the Sprit expressly spoke about the latter times, how men DEPART FROM THE FAITH, hearing seducing spirits and DOCTRINES OF DEVILS, SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY, and having THEIR CONSCIENCE SEARED WITH A HOT IRON. ( unlike the Pharisees who were CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE by what Jesus answered them.)
Jesus had corrected those under the law, to not do as Moses had commanded in the law, to stone a woman taken in adultery to death.
Now we know that these are now DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH, with a devils doctrine/SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY. What s testified is them taking control of men, they forbid to marry, and they COMMAND ( NOTICE HOW MANY ON THIS FORUM TEACH TO KEEP COMMANDMENTS AS THEIR DOCTRINE.) to abstain from meats. ( also testified that this is against those WHICH BELIEVE, and KNOW THE TRUTH.)
If we put the brothers in memory/understanding of these things, we are being a GOOD minister of Jesus Christ, NOURISHED up in the word of FAITH, and GOOD doctrine. ( not heading those doctrines of DEVILS.)
Instead we are to give all focus on reading, exhortation ( like this says in the faith) and to doctrine ( GOOD.) to meditate upon those things, and t give ourselves wholly to them, to TAKE HEED unto yourself, and unto the doctrine, and to continue in THEM, to SAVE BOTH YOURSELF, and THOSE WHO HEAR YOU. ( unlike the Pharisees of the law not heard by God, and these who depart the faith who do not hear Christ.)
The word is to be preached, to reprove these ones, to rebuke them, with all longsuffering and doctrine, the time came ( before Christ Jesus will judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom.) when they will NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE, but with their own lusts heap to themselves these TEACHERS, ( with DOCTRINES OF DEVILS..) to turn away their ears from the truth unto fables. But we are to WATCH IN ALL THINGS, to endure afflictions, to make full proof of our ministry.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY; having THEIR CONSCIENCE3 SEARED WITH A HOT IRON;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD minister of Jesus Christ, NOURISHED UP IN THE WORDS OF FAITH and of GOOD DOCTRINE, whereunto thou hast attained.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves TEACHERS, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Now these people do not have the Spirit by promoting doctrines of devils and by departing from the faith. ( as was foretold to be with COMMANDMENTS of men.) But those who make full proof of their ministry have the Spirit of revelation. Turning to fables, is what was predicted to happen, and it is happening as if it is a good thing on the FORUMS.
It was testified in this very thread, ( began by me to try to stop law discussion.) that nobody without Christ in them can have morals, as they are then REPROBATES. That was ignored completely and also attempted to be answered back. ( that would prove if anyone was in the FAITH. 2 Corinthians 13:5.)
Now look at the REVELATION, God has given them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to do those things NOT CONVENIENT, and are filled with all that unrighteousness is, ( unrighteousness is not the transgression of the law to those who are in Christ Jesus, as what is NOT OF FAITH IS SIN..1 John 3:3-10. Romans 14:23. John 8:24.) with wickedness covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, DEBATE, DECEIT, MALIGNITY, ( causing harm/division) by being despiteful, proud, boasters, INVENTERS OF EVIL THINGS, IMPLACABLE, ( wont ever be corrected.) they know the judgement of God that if anyone COMMITED these things, they are WORTH OF DEAATH, they do them and have PLEASURE IN THOSE WHO DO THEM. ( instead of having pleasure as God does when we have FAITH and DILLIGENTLY SEEK HIM. Hebrews 11:6.)
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to DO THOSE THINGS which are not convenient;
29 BEING FILLED WITH ALL unrighteousness, fornication, WICKEDNESS, COVETOUSNESS, MALICIOUSNESS; FULL OF envy, murder, DEBATE, DECEIT, MALIGNITY; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, DESPITEFUL, PROUD, BOASTERS, INVENTERS OF EVIL THINGS, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, IMPLACABLE, unmerciful:
32 Who KNOWING THE JUDGEMENT OF GOD, that they which COMMIT SUCH THINGS ARE WORTHY OF DEATH, not only DO THE SAME, but HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
That was one revelation of who is reprobate, the next. We saw how the time had come for men to not endure sound doctrine, but to be TURNED UNTO FABLES. ( heaping to themselves these teachers/with doctrines of devils.)
This continues in Timothy, how we are exhorted not to give HEED UNTO FABLES, they minister QUESTIONS/DEBATE, rather than GODLY EDIFYING WHICH IS IN FAITH. The commandment ( of faith.) is CHARITY, out of a PURE HEART, ( hearts purified by FAITH. Acts 15:9.) and of a GOOD CONSCIENCE, of FAITH unfeigned. ( these teaching law in the latter times have their CONSCIENCE SEARED WITH A HOT IRON.)
Some swerved FROM THE FAITH, and turned ASIDE unto VAIN JANGLING, DESIRING TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, and are seen to not understand what they say nor what they affirm. ( DO THOSE SAME TEACHERS OF THE LAW ON THESE FORUMS EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT SIN IS, OR WHAT REPROBATE/TO BE WITHOUT MORALS IS ? The answer to both is to be without the Faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is THEIR DOCTRINE. )
The law is made for the unrighteous man, when 1 John 3, as told so many times, is not for men any longer under the law, as it testifies of being righteous with Christ IN YOU. ( in FAITH and NOT UNDER ANY LAW/as WITHOUT LAW.)
We are enabled and counted FAITHFUL, to obtain mercy when we do in ignorance by UNBELIEF, ( not with faith and under any law, which is what transgression of the law is.) to receive the GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with faith and love.
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
1 Timothy 1:4 NEITHER GIVE HEED UNTO FABLES and endless genealogies, WHICH MINISTER QUESTIONS, rather THAN GODLY EDIFYING WHICH IS IN FAITH: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That is how to draw near to God, in FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, having our hearts SPRINKLED from an EVIL CONSCIENCE.
Now we are saved, by the ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE towards God, BY ( FAITH.) in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God. ( angels and authorities and powers being MADE SUBJECT unto HIM..)
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Look below at John 8, and see if anyone can understand the reason why the Pharisees of the law, brought a woman to Jesus to be stoned, and why Jesus wrote on the ground, AS THOUGH HE DIDNT HEAR THEM ? The first simple answer is because The Pharisees we have it testified, did not HEAR MOSES AND THE PROPHETS. ( so would not be persuaded though one rose from the dead. Would not be persuaded by faith.) So LIKEWISE, Jesus does NOT HEAR THEM. The next testimony is that we have it testified again, against the Pharisees or those under the law, that God does NOT HEAR SINNERS. Jesus continues to reveal they are indeed those sinners who are not heard, as all were CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE, when Jesus answered to them, that they are WITH SIN.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If TEY HEAR NOT MOSES AND THE PROPHETS, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
John 9:31 Now WE KNOW THAT GOD HEARETH NOT SINNERS: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, AS THEY HE HEARD THEM NOT.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN AMONG YOU, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And THEY WHICH HEARD IT, BEING CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
What did it also mean that these of the LAW WERE CONVICTED OF THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE ?
It means that is why the Sprit expressly spoke about the latter times, how men DEPART FROM THE FAITH, hearing seducing spirits and DOCTRINES OF DEVILS, SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY, and having THEIR CONSCIENCE SEARED WITH A HOT IRON. ( unlike the Pharisees who were CONVICTED BY THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE by what Jesus answered them.)
Jesus had corrected those under the law, to not do as Moses had commanded in the law, to stone a woman taken in adultery to death.
Now we know that these are now DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH, with a devils doctrine/SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY. What s testified is them taking control of men, they forbid to marry, and they COMMAND ( NOTICE HOW MANY ON THIS FORUM TEACH TO KEEP COMMANDMENTS AS THEIR DOCTRINE.) to abstain from meats. ( also testified that this is against those WHICH BELIEVE, and KNOW THE TRUTH.)
If we put the brothers in memory/understanding of these things, we are being a GOOD minister of Jesus Christ, NOURISHED up in the word of FAITH, and GOOD doctrine. ( not heading those doctrines of DEVILS.)
Instead we are to give all focus on reading, exhortation ( like this says in the faith) and to doctrine ( GOOD.) to meditate upon those things, and t give ourselves wholly to them, to TAKE HEED unto yourself, and unto the doctrine, and to continue in THEM, to SAVE BOTH YOURSELF, and THOSE WHO HEAR YOU. ( unlike the Pharisees of the law not heard by God, and these who depart the faith who do not hear Christ.)
The word is to be preached, to reprove these ones, to rebuke them, with all longsuffering and doctrine, the time came ( before Christ Jesus will judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom.) when they will NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE, but with their own lusts heap to themselves these TEACHERS, ( with DOCTRINES OF DEVILS..) to turn away their ears from the truth unto fables. But we are to WATCH IN ALL THINGS, to endure afflictions, to make full proof of our ministry.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 SPEAKING LIES IN HYPOCRISY; having THEIR CONSCIENCE3 SEARED WITH A HOT IRON;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD minister of Jesus Christ, NOURISHED UP IN THE WORDS OF FAITH and of GOOD DOCTRINE, whereunto thou hast attained.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves TEACHERS, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Now these people do not have the Spirit by promoting doctrines of devils and by departing from the faith. ( as was foretold to be with COMMANDMENTS of men.) But those who make full proof of their ministry have the Spirit of revelation. Turning to fables, is what was predicted to happen, and it is happening as if it is a good thing on the FORUMS.
It was testified in this very thread, ( began by me to try to stop law discussion.) that nobody without Christ in them can have morals, as they are then REPROBATES. That was ignored completely and also attempted to be answered back. ( that would prove if anyone was in the FAITH. 2 Corinthians 13:5.)
Now look at the REVELATION, God has given them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to do those things NOT CONVENIENT, and are filled with all that unrighteousness is, ( unrighteousness is not the transgression of the law to those who are in Christ Jesus, as what is NOT OF FAITH IS SIN..1 John 3:3-10. Romans 14:23. John 8:24.) with wickedness covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, DEBATE, DECEIT, MALIGNITY, ( causing harm/division) by being despiteful, proud, boasters, INVENTERS OF EVIL THINGS, IMPLACABLE, ( wont ever be corrected.) they know the judgement of God that if anyone COMMITED these things, they are WORTH OF DEAATH, they do them and have PLEASURE IN THOSE WHO DO THEM. ( instead of having pleasure as God does when we have FAITH and DILLIGENTLY SEEK HIM. Hebrews 11:6.)
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to DO THOSE THINGS which are not convenient;
29 BEING FILLED WITH ALL unrighteousness, fornication, WICKEDNESS, COVETOUSNESS, MALICIOUSNESS; FULL OF envy, murder, DEBATE, DECEIT, MALIGNITY; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, DESPITEFUL, PROUD, BOASTERS, INVENTERS OF EVIL THINGS, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, IMPLACABLE, unmerciful:
32 Who KNOWING THE JUDGEMENT OF GOD, that they which COMMIT SUCH THINGS ARE WORTHY OF DEATH, not only DO THE SAME, but HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
That was one revelation of who is reprobate, the next. We saw how the time had come for men to not endure sound doctrine, but to be TURNED UNTO FABLES. ( heaping to themselves these teachers/with doctrines of devils.)
This continues in Timothy, how we are exhorted not to give HEED UNTO FABLES, they minister QUESTIONS/DEBATE, rather than GODLY EDIFYING WHICH IS IN FAITH. The commandment ( of faith.) is CHARITY, out of a PURE HEART, ( hearts purified by FAITH. Acts 15:9.) and of a GOOD CONSCIENCE, of FAITH unfeigned. ( these teaching law in the latter times have their CONSCIENCE SEARED WITH A HOT IRON.)
Some swerved FROM THE FAITH, and turned ASIDE unto VAIN JANGLING, DESIRING TO BE TEACHERS OF THE LAW, and are seen to not understand what they say nor what they affirm. ( DO THOSE SAME TEACHERS OF THE LAW ON THESE FORUMS EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT SIN IS, OR WHAT REPROBATE/TO BE WITHOUT MORALS IS ? The answer to both is to be without the Faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is THEIR DOCTRINE. )
The law is made for the unrighteous man, when 1 John 3, as told so many times, is not for men any longer under the law, as it testifies of being righteous with Christ IN YOU. ( in FAITH and NOT UNDER ANY LAW/as WITHOUT LAW.)
We are enabled and counted FAITHFUL, to obtain mercy when we do in ignorance by UNBELIEF, ( not with faith and under any law, which is what transgression of the law is.) to receive the GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ with faith and love.
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
1 Timothy 1:4 NEITHER GIVE HEED UNTO FABLES and endless genealogies, WHICH MINISTER QUESTIONS, rather THAN GODLY EDIFYING WHICH IS IN FAITH: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That is how to draw near to God, in FULL ASSURANCE OF FAITH, having our hearts SPRINKLED from an EVIL CONSCIENCE.
Now we are saved, by the ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE towards God, BY ( FAITH.) in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is gone into heaven and is on the right hand of God. ( angels and authorities and powers being MADE SUBJECT unto HIM..)
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
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