eclipsenow said:

Rebuilding some temple in the middle east would be a blasphemy!

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Bible Prophecy clearly says there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem.
It will be built by people coming from far away and a world leader will desecrate it.

Denying these plainly stated Words, is to directly oppose Bible truths. You are the one in Lala land.

Vambram said:

Do you want to be like Scandavia where the governments take about 70% of your income?

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I'd rather live in a happy place like ANY Scandanavian country than the bleak hellscape of the American disposition.


You seem to think that "not being taxed" (notice: I'm not saying MONEY) is not as important as being happy.

HolyArmor said:

Really like the book of Sirach, made a video with my own commentary talking about some specific verses.

Youtube video here

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How do you refer to Sirach, in the context of Bible Study? No, I'm not going to both to look at the link.

Michie said:

A debate has erupted online and in Indian social circles worldwide. The subject is U.S. Vice President JD Vance, who has been criticized for hoping that his Hindu wife, Usha, might one day share his Christian faith.

To right-wing Hindu extremists and left-wing elites, this is exaggerated as an act of war — proselytization, cultural assault, a colonial echo. The outrage is loud and the accusations swift. Yet beneath the noise lies a profound misunderstanding, not only of JD Vance, but of Christianity itself.

At a TPUSA event and in subsequent social media commentary, Vance spoke about his spiritual journey. When asked about Usha, a brilliant attorney raised in a Hindu home, he offered this reflection: “Do I hope, eventually, that she is somehow moved by the same thing that I was moved in by church? Yeah, honestly, I do wish that … I hope she may one day see things as I do."

Note that Vance has not suggested coercion or ultimatum. In fact, he has explicitly rejected force, saying, “But if she doesn't, then God says everybody has free will, and so that doesn't cause a problem for me.”

This is not proselytization. It is love, the kind Jesus modeled. Conversion in Christian theology is not a human transaction but a spiritual encounter. Jesus warned against forcing faith; in the Parable of the Sower, some seeds take root and others do not. Growth cannot be commanded.

Vance understands this truth. His critics do not.

Continued below.

JD Vance, his Hindu wife and Christian conversion: Indian uproar

The contradiction is glaring Hinduism can export, but Christianity must not import

www.christianpost.com

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"Note that Vance has not suggested coercion or ultimatum. In fact, he has explicitly rejected force, saying, “But if she doesn't, then God says everybody has free will, and so that doesn't cause a problem for me.”

He is correct with this ... they have chosen to not make it a stumbling block ... I am certain he prays for her continuously

Always in His Presence said:

From a cursory AI search:

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Your AI may have missed a few things, being AI and all. It does not seem to be a well taught AI. YMMV.

Always in His Presence said:

No, Tertullian (c. 155–c. 240 AD) did not mention purgatory in the sense of the later Catholic doctrine—a temporary state of purification after death for souls destined for heaven. The fully developed concept of purgatory, involving post-mortem fire and satisfaction for venial sins, emerged centuries later (formalized at the Second Council of Lyon in 1274 and the Council of Trent in the 16th century).​

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Who is pretending that Tertullian has to have had a 'fully developed' theology of purgatory?

Tertullian's significance was that he was the first Christian apologist to write in Latin. That he brought older Greek terms and thoughts and intuitions into the Latin language. Most of his writings, all of the earlier ones for sure, were orthodox, though he later drifted into Montanism.

Always in His Presence said:

• In De Anima (On the Soul), Tertullian describes the soul's fate immediately after death: the righteous go to a place of comfort (paradise or Abraham's bosom), while the wicked go to Hades for torment until the final judgment. There is no third category of purifying fire for imperfect believers.

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Tertullian didn't have a 'fully developed' theology of the afterlife either. You are imposing your modern views of the afterlife on Tertullian, who thought more of 'sheol and 'gehenna' than of 'heaven' and 'hell'. Yes, he would have considered the resurrection, but that it would bring about something permanent on the last day. His understanding of 'sheol' was more a temporary place or status.

Always in His Presence said:

• He mentions fire in eschatological contexts (e.g., the final judgment or hell), but never as a post-mortem purgation for the saved.

The word "purgatorium" as a noun for a place of cleansing first appears in the 12th century (e.g., in writings influenced by Augustine and Gregory the Great).

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The word 'Trinity' didn't show up for centuries either. Let's get rid of it as a false teaching? Some think that's a great idea.

Always in His Presence said:

In summary, while Tertullian supported prayers for the dead and an intermediate waiting period, he provided no substantive basis for the doctrine of purgatory. Claims otherwise typically involve anachronistic readings of his texts. For primary sources, see Tertullian's works in the Ante-Nicene Fathers collection (vol. 3–4).

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Tertullian did not mention the word 'purgatory', of course, but he nonetheless supported prayers for the dead. AND he supplied the Latin speaking theology which followed the language to understand why prayers for the dead mattered. He distinguished between the guilt of a sin (culpa) and the reparation necessary as a result of a sin independent of the guilt of a sin (poena). This is tied up with Latin legal terminology, and is developed more by Augustine, particularly in regard to original sin being something we suffer the effects of even after being cleansed of all guilt of original sin in baptism. Thus no guilt remains but a poena is due, a concupiescence that endures. David confessed his guilt to Nathan, and was forgiven by God, but that did not stop his son from dying. Here's where your average Protestant says "Jesus paid it all!" Augustine, and Tertullian before him, and the Greek theologians too, and the whole Catholic and Orthodox enterprise would have to differ. Jesus paid for the guilt of our sins, but reparations are due to fix the damage we have done. We do that in penances and good works and alms, in reparation for ourselves and for others.

One way we do that is in praying for the dead, not that the unsaved would become saved, but that the partially sanctified would become wholly sanctified. This was a big thing for Tertullian, who for example expected a widow to offer prayers for her deceased husband on the anniversaries of his death. Why would Tertullian think that? What rationale would that have for a 21st century Protestant who totally rejects purgatory and says it was only invented in the middle ages? Why do the Orthodox and the Catholics follow the Jews in praying for their dead, as we all still do, if purgatory were a medieval invention?

Purgatory is but an explanation for why we pray for our dead. What's your explanation of why we Catholics and Orthodox and Jews pray for our dead?

By the way, good advice to actually read Tertullian. 'On the Resurrection of the Body', 'A Treatise on the Soul', and even 'On Monogamy' (a Donatist work) are of merit to this discussion. As would be Augustine. Shoot. I endorse reading the Fathers widely. A common enough recurring theme is prayers for the dead. Not as any new practice, but as something we always did.

Always in His Presence said:

Yes, the line has been repeated - and yet -

not one Republican endorsed it or voted for it.

The ones who wrote the final plan - endorsed it and voted it in right down party lines - are the ones who own it.

Here is a hint - if it had been a Republican majority congress - the plan would have never made it to the floor. If it was working well - the folks on the left would never mention anyone but themselves.

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People often forget history: any GOP member supporting the ACA risked being ousted by a Tea Party candidate in the primary and losing the election. Eric Cantor, the GOP's second-in-command, lost his primary simply for expressing support for President Obama and the Gang of Six’s immigration plan.

Stating that "no republican endorsed or voted for it" as evidence of the program lacking conservative ideas may overlook aspects of the Tea Party era and changes in American politics since 2006.

Valletta said:

California revoked the licenses of 17,000 immigrants,

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How many were reissued with corrected expiration dates?

RamiC said:

You are quoting Article VI of the 39 Articles of religion, and I am citing my favourite part of the article on the Anglican Compass website (linked in my OP).

Of the 39 Articles - II refers to "The Son, which is the Word of the Father," which does not even call the Bible God's word, but Jesus. XX refers to "God’s Word written," and VI which you have quoted above refers to the sufficiency of "Holy Scriptures" for salvation. That the Bible is available to all in a language they can readily understand means a lot to the Anglican church, but as far as I am aware claims to Biblical inerrancy are not part of our tradition, no.

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And on that you and I are in full agreement.

The Kessler twins — a German entertainment duo who became famous both in the US and throughout Europe beginning in the 1950s — have died at 89 after choosing to end their lives together.

The performers, Alice and Ellen Kessler, both turned to assisted suicide on Monday, according to the German publication Bild.

The singing and dancing sisters reportedly died together in their home in Grünwald, near Munich.


The Kessler twins once were known for making the rounds on American talk shows and performing with multi-hyphenate entertainment giants, including Frank Sinatra, Fred Astaire and Sammy Davis Jr., among other stars.

According to Bild, the sisters 'no longer wanted to live' and 'had chosen to end their lives together.'

Death by medical aid had essentially been banned in the wake of a 2015 German law outlawing the 'commercial promotion of assisted suicide,' according to the BBC.

Continued below.

rjs330 said:

Yet anyone with half a brain knows its not true because if it were Biden would have released it. It would have been an easy way to get rid of Trump once and for all.

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I never could understand this "what about Biden" and why didn't he release the files? For one, Biden and his circle didn't run on a Epstein conspiracy. Trump et al did. Epstein was dead. Maxwell in jail. What would be the premise for Garland to reopen up anything Epstein? Because the same group who thought pedophiles were sex trafficking out of a DC pizza shop when not waiting for JFKjr to come back to life are pearl clutching? Moreover name one time Biden directed Garland to investigate anyone? Put this in the Google machine, "Biden directs DOJ investigate" and you will get pages of Trump ordering his DOJ to investigate Biden. The problem with Trump routinely ordering investigations and his consigliere following those orders; for his supporters that has now become normal. Now they think that's how it works. It doesn't. Biden like all presidents pre Trump stayed neutral.

I don't think the Force of air molecules could ever provide enough Power for the Work involved in the movement of larger parts, such as human-sized things like an engine or a generator... If I'm understanding this correctly.

...Not enough oomph.

WordSword said:

I hope you don't mind me removing the accusations, they are unnecessary during discussions. What you are saying has and is what some Jews are and are becoming, same as many Gentiles are becoming--Christians.

Those prophecies describe a time (during the millennium) when Jews that love and obey God receive their final and New Covenant, which will still be law, but new law. Christianity has no law (Jer 31:33), statutes and judgments (Eze 36:27).

This new covenant is "with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah" only (Jer 31:31). There's nothing in these these prophecies that has to do with Christianity. I think the most significant difference with this new covenant will be that God will "cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them" (Eze 36:27). With the OT God did not cause them to "please" Him, as He does now in Christianity by His Spirit and Son (Phl 2:13).

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Christianity IS Judaism in root with God being revealed in bodily form as Christ. It's not something completely new. This is why in Acts 15, there were discussions about what rules were religious vs what rules were ethnic and what the gentiles should follow after Christ. They all agreed that gentiles should not eat anything offered to idols, abstain from blood, from things strangled (essentially Kosher meat or Certified Humane) and sexual immorality (spiritual). So how is that Jews becoming "Christian" (which literally just means Christ follower) and not the other way around? Israel will rule the world when Christ returns.

Jesus didn't abolish his commands/statutes, he grafted us into what he already started with the Jews. They are HIS rules, HIS feasts, HIS statues. Essentially, we are supposed to be more "Jewish" and not the other way around. The only thing the Jews need to do is accept Jesus as God and acknowledge they have no need for ceremonial laws anymore and that's it for them. Everything else is the same. Even during the Millennial reign you have a rule for any nation that doesn't celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, they get no rain as a punishment (Zechariah 14:16-19). How is that "Christian"??

On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty. - Zechariah 14:20-21

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Sacrifices during the Millennial Reign! Definitely not "Christian".

We are apart of HIS family, not the other way around.

stevevw said:

Natural geometry is about the natural geometry we see in nature such as Sacred geometry, the Golden ratio or Phi and Pi. Geometric patterns that create the fundamental structure and templates of life in the universe.

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Right. So natural geometry is only different than ordinary geometry of you think those numbers have magical powers.

stevevw said:

Yes I think that had a very advanced way to measure things.

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That would certainly be a more plausible candidate for your "woo" than what you've got going now.

Now the UN is following the Trump Plan

Trump on UN approving US plan for the future of Gaza: ‘Congratulations to the World’​

President Trump praised the United Nations (UN) Security Council for approving a U.S.-based plan to rebuild Gaza on Monday.

The 15-member council voted 13-0 in favor of the resolution, with Russia and China abstaining.

“Congratulations to the World on the incredible Vote of the United Nations Security Council,” Trump said on his Truth Social platform Monday afternoon. The president added that the vote “will go down as one of the biggest approvals in the History of the United Nations, will lead to further Peace all over the World, and is a moment of true Historic proportion!”

The resolution authorizes the Board of Peace, an international coalition that Trump said Monday he will chair, to oversee the rebuilding of the war-torn enclave.

Job 33:6 said:

Can we all just agree that America's private insurance company led healthcare system is absurdly expensive, and yields worse healthcare results, in comparison to European nation's government regulated universal healthcare?

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The reason it's expensive is because it has unnecessary operations, and again, I'm pointing out the billing industry as one of them.

We can also transition back to non-profit health insurance...which was the case prior to the early 70s. All health insurance was non-profit until the Nixon administration. That's not a "bad thing"...there are non-profit (mutual) home and auto insurance companies that are doing very well.

But that would merely be a transition or an adjunct to health care, because the real problem with health care "insurance" is that it is not and cannot be true "insurance."

The cost of true insurance is a matter of spreading the cost of dealing with an unlikely catastrophe. For instance, it would cost about $700,000, all told, to replace my house if it burned down tonight. That's very unlikely because I take careful steps to prevent my house from burning down.

But I don't have $700,000 in my checking account. Truth is, I will never have $700,000 in my checking account. But I can pay a couple of hundred dollars a month to a company that will step in and pay that $700,000 in the unlikely event my house does burn down tonight. So, they get $200 this month, and I get another month of not worrying about sleeping under a bridge if my house burns down. And they're getting $200 a month from thousands of people, paying out $700,000 relatively rarely. It's a win for them, and it's a win for me if I consider a month of peace of mind worth $200.

Health insurance can't operate that way because I know I'm going to have medical bills every month (my wife and I being old). Medical bills are not unlikely catastrophes.

What we call "health insurance" is really kind of a Frankenstein group purchase plan, like Cosco or Sam's Club, except with a whole lot of middlemen collecting their take between the shelves and the cash registers.

Health insurance can function as real insurance at the catastrophic end. Catastrophic events do exist for health. There are genuine catastrophes like ICU stays, cancer treatments, and Transplants. The problem is: the U.S. system bundles catastrophic coverage with routine prepayment, turning everything into an expensive hybrid.

Throughout history, individuals who were poor, vulnerable, marginalized, or persecuted have often sought refuge within places of worship. Religious institutions, regardless of faith tradition, have served as sanctuaries for those seeking protection. Across the Islamic world, for instance, persecuted Christians may find shelter in churches, and it is common for Muslim authorities or law enforcement officers to refrain from entering these spaces out of respect for their sacredness. Similarly, in Myanmar, even under authoritarian rule, there is a tendency for officials to avoid entering churches and other houses of worship, demonstrating continued respect for religious spaces.

Today in America, even church property is not a secure refuge, as law enforcement often shows it little respect—sometimes less than seen authoritarian Myanmar!

Wonder if the Golden Rule will start trending with the newest generation. Things tend to go full circle,

durangodawood said:

What we need is an economy that works for most Americans, and not gimmicks like one time $2000 "rebates" and 50 year mortgages.

And by most Americans I mean everyone whos willing to work. We are nowhere near that. Loads of hardworking people are right on the edge or going backward economically.

Just my opinion. I know its not popular.

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Navy secretary says it's hard to get workers to want to build warships if they get paid what they might make at Buc-ee's or Amazon​

Which kind of goes back to Trump statement recently that America just doesn't have the pool of worker talent. It's not that, it's the pay that lays bare to the every increasing wealth gap in America.
Keep in mind this:

In 1965, the CEO-to-worker compensation ratio in the United States stood at about 20-to-1, according to a 2015 report by the EPI. But starting in the 1970s up through 2014, "inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth and substantially greater than the painfully slow 10.9 percent growth in a typical worker's annual compensation over the same period."

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I never could understand what "Make America Great Again" actually meant, but with all those CEOs paying homage to Trump, it certainly isn't anything like it was pay ratio pre 1970.

Paidiske said:

Mmm. I'm thinking there's work to be done in equipping people to navigate community life - cultivating opennes, flexibility, creativity, mission focus, and so on - but I don't think it's a matter of a one-on-one conversation or a sermon. I think these are things that the community has to own as values and goals.

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Yes. Might Growth Groups help? Mid week, a chance for people to get to know each other in a different way?

Is it because they are on a bridge to far ?

Forgive me, I do not wish to make your thinking an amusement. I want to understand what you are saying.
Acts 20:29 does say that savage wolves will come in, and we can see it going on even today, but the verse does not say that the Apostles would become wolves themselves.
Would it not make sense for us, almost 2000 yrs later, to attempt to discern Apostolic teaching?

I like that you rely on the word of God and not necessarily the words of men. Scripture says we are to study to show ourselves approved, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

I came across a second century work by Iraneus, who was taught by Polycarp, who directly knew John the Apostle. It is called Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching. Are you familiar with it?
I believe that it is worth the read in light of today’s many hermeneutics.

What I got from it is that it is not outward appearances that count, but the complete denial of ourselves in following in Christs footsteps

I like the Assemblies of God in that they believe signs and wonders should follow those that believe. The Gospel is not proclaimed by logic alone. The problem I have is that signs and wonders alone can be deceiving. Scripture tells us that Antichrist will come with signs and wonders and be so convincing as to deceive the very elect. How are we to tell the difference and have proper discernment?

Blessings and peace to you form Our Lord Jesus Christ, and great topic for a thread. I would hope to continue a pleasant discussion with you

rambot said:

And you wonder because Syria is PRETTY much like America?

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Some of it looks familiar. This is from last year, but I'm hopeful this year will be similar in Damascus and the new regime continues to do what it can to protect all its demographics in the face of the extremists who are certainly still active.

essentialsaltes said:

For Syria’s Christians, Christmas is a time to grapple with hope and fear​

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New data reveals 98 (a significant undercount, but these are verified) Palestinian deaths in Israeli custody since October 7​

Post-mortems of the deceased and testimonies from former detainees suggest many died from torture, medical neglect, and food deprivation. According to a leaked Israeli intelligence database, dozens were civilians​

Of those detained from Gaza, who make up the majority, less than one-third were classified by the Israeli army itself as militants — meaning Israel was responsible for the deaths of dozens of Palestinian civilians in custody.

Previously unreported data on Palestinian deaths in detention was obtained from the Israeli army and Israel Prison Service (IPS) by Physicians for Human Rights–Israel (PHRI), which released a reporttoday publicizing these figures. According to PHRI, 98 is likely a significant undercount with human rights groups unable to locate hundreds more people reportedly detained in Gaza.

Despite almost 100 recorded deaths in custody and abundant testimonies and other evidence of severe physical abuse — including widespread sexual violence, as documented in a damning new reportby the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights — only one Israeli soldier has been prosecuted; he was sentenced in February to seven months for assaulting detainees from Gaza. Five other soldiers have been charged with aggravated abuse and causing serious bodily harm to a detainee at the Sde Teiman detention center, after footage was leaked to the Israeli media last year.

As Haaretz reports, the Israeli army’s top legal official deliberately avoided launching investigations into alleged war crimes by Israeli soldiers, including in relation to deaths of detainees in custody, due to anticipated right-wing backlash.