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The law, the commandments, and Christians.

Sure, Jesus teaching two gospels now. You’ve bought into some contrived nonsense here, made up to support a novel, faulty gospel.

I didn't say anything about there being 2 gospels now.

I am asking you whether you regard yourself as Israel. Is that a yes?

Do you consider Moses your spokesperson today as well?
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THE GREAT CONTROVERSY in Baltimore, Maryland

Thank you again for your pertinent reply. Am I correct in understanding that the primary purpose for inundating Baltimore and Philadelphia with this particular book was membership recruitment for the SDA?
The argument in itself is suspect. It begs the question, if the Bible alone is sufficient for a rule of faith, of what use is the SDA?
Are they not a group of men and women apart from scripture and therefore subject to error?

If we are to believe the Bible and the SDA, does that not make the claim of scripture only a slogan rather than a belief?
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The Venting Thread

There is too much hatred on the Earth that God made.

We are all a Family because we are all made by the same God.

I wish everyone loved each other and I wish all the suffering would end and we could all be happy.

I wish I could find God finally.

I know He is everywhere and is always there, but I want to know Who He Is.

I want to know why He made me.

I want to know why He doesn’t talk to me or many other Humans He made.

Also I want to know who Satan is and why he doesn’t seem to like any human that God made.

Or why God let’s Satan attack us.

I have no idea who God is and I have no idea who Satan is.

All I know is God made me and Satan seems to hate me.

Sometimes I wish I lived in a different universe where there was no suffering.

I wish I could join a group of people who wanted to look for God and try to help save our Universe from wickedness and hatred.

I hope one day God gives me the courage to help Him save humanity and also all animals.

I do have some hope that I could one day join other Christians in helping save our Universe and that one day everyone will be saved and forgiven by God.

And I hope one day Satan stops hating me and other humans God made and that God forgives and saves Satan, the demons, and Satan’s followers.
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The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Rejection of God’s commandments is not the issue,

It was with God and all the Prophets. It was with the Jesus "of the Bible". (Unless "you repent", you shall all likewise perish) Repent from what? Rejecting God's Laws, or obeying them? The Pharisees were rejected "BECAUSE" they rejected God's Commandments, at least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. Paul teaches, Rom. 2: 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but "the doers" of the law "shall be justified".

What Law is Paul speaking to here? The Priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" "ADDED" after the Golden calf, "Till the Seed should come"? Or the Laws, Judgments and Statutes of God that teach men how to Love and Honor God, and how to love and treat others according to His definition of Righteousness.

Why not actually read my post, and ask me questions about it's content, and lets have an honest discussion.

being put back under the bondage of the law is beyond problematic.

What do you mean here "put back under the bondage of the law"? Do you mean, "Now go and sin no more" is Jesus "putting a man back under the bondage of the law"?

Are you saying you were obeying God's Laws and Judgments in times past, and then Jesus convinced you to reject God's Laws and Judgments, and now you think I am trying to ""put you back under the bondage of the law"?

Please define for me what you mean by this term?

So you are right to say that by the works of the law no one is justified. However, this is really not what you are teaching is it?

I will ask you another question, I hope you will answer. What LAW was in place to provide for atonement/justification of the sinner, under the old Levitical Priesthood?
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New Qatari Air Force Facility to Be Built in Idaho

What “left wing”?
I'll field that question... (and even with a left-leaning source)


Per the NY Times article:
Citing revolutionary thinkers, like Vladimir Lenin and Frantz Fanon, it explained how solidarity was essential with members of the so-called Axis of Resistance — which includes Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Hamas — because they oppose imperialism.
Since then, the group has praised a Tel Aviv attack by Palestinian militants that killed seven people at a light rail station on Oct. 1, including a mother who died while shielding her 9-month-old baby. It also praised Iran’s missile attack on the Jewish state that began that evening, calling it a “bold move.”

On Tuesday, the group said it rescinded an apology it made last spring about the behavior of Khymani James, a student who had said in a disciplinary hearing that “Zionists don’t deserve to live,” and, “Be grateful that I’m not just going out and murdering Zionists.”



Mahmoud Khalil was a quasi-leader and spokesman for that group, and people on the left were throwing a hissy fit about him being in line for deportation.


Does that sufficiently answer your question?
  • Winner
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DOJ issues subpoenas to NY AG Letitia James, including over Trump civil fraud case and NRA case: Sources

Social media erupts as resurfaced AG James posts come back to haunt her: 'No one is above the law'

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Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Paul says in Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. In other words if there is no law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed or no blame can be accredited to any person when there is no law. Now, let’s see what Sin is according to the Bible in I John 3:4 it states, "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So if the law was nailed to the cross that would mean its okay to use the Lords name in vain, put other gods before HIM, make graven images and bow before them, pollute the Sabbath day, steal, commit murder, commit adultery and bear false witness. If all these things are okay to commit, then we might as well throw the Bible out the back door and do what ever feels good to us.

We will see that Paul was in fact a law keeper and how he preached out of the Law and the Prophets.

Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord?

Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.

Let's go into Paul's writings and take another look at both of these laws. We will go into the Book of Galatians chapter 3. This is one of the chapters that the majority of Christian preachers use to do away with the Lord's commandments. Now, let's read carefully!

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Take heed to what Paul's says above, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions." What is transgression? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4) Transgression is braking of the commandments. What law was added because of the braking of the law? The sacrificial law! Paul is simply asking these Gentiles, "why perform the sacrificial law? It was added because of sin until the seed should come. Who is the seed?

Let's back up in this chapter and find out.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16) Who is the SEED? CHRIST! So, this law was added (which is the sacrificial law) until Christ came. What was the sacrificial law used for until Christ came? Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

The sacrificial law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Before we continue, we must clear one thing up. Are we justified by faith alone? Let's see. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31) What law is established? Certainly not the sacrificial law, we have seen above that it was added because of transgression until the Seed came (which was Christ). The Royal law to be established forever which are the Ten Lords commandments!

1. Romans 5:13 does not mean there is “no sin without law.”

“For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” (Romans 5:13)
Rebuttal:
Paul is not denying that people sinned before the Mosaic Law — in fact, he explicitly says “sin was in the world.”
He means that before the written law, sin was not charged in the same way because there was no formal, codified standard. Yet death still reigned (Romans 5:14), proving sin existed and was judged.

Supporting texts:

  • Romans 2:14–15 — Gentiles “who do not have the law” still have a law written on their hearts and are accountable.
  • Romans 4:15 — “Where there is no law, there is no transgression” — meaning no legal violation of a covenant code, not no moral guilt.
So “no law, no sin” is a misreading. Sin always existed (Genesis 4:7; 6:5); the Mosaic Law simply revealed it more clearly (Romans 7:7–9).

2. Sin is indeed “transgression of the law,” but that doesn’t mean the Mosaic Law still governs believers.

“Sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)
Rebuttal:
John is not redefining sin but reaffirming that lawlessness is rebellion against God’s moral will. But under the New Covenant, believers are under “the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2), not the old Mosaic code.

Supporting texts:

  • Romans 6:14 — “You are not under law but under grace.”
  • 1 Corinthians 9:20–21 — Paul distinguishes between being “under the law” (Moses) and being “under the law of Christ.”
  • Hebrews 8:13 — The old covenant is “obsolete.”
Moral truth (don’t murder, don’t steal, etc.) continues, but the covenantal framework (the Ten Commandments as part of Sinai) does not bind believers.

3. The “two laws” framework is artificial.

The Bible never calls the Ten Commandments and sacrificial system two distinct laws. They are parts of one covenantgiven at Sinai.

Supporting texts:

  • Deuteronomy 4:13–14 — “He declared to you His covenant… the Ten Commandments… and the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments.”
    → Both were part of one covenant.
  • 2 Corinthians 3:7–11 — The law “engraved on stones” (the Ten Commandments) is called the ministry of deathand has been done away in Christ.
So Scripture never divides the law into “moral” vs. “ceremonial” categories in the way later theologians do.

4. The Levitical sacrifices did indeed atone for unintentional sins, but that was temporary and symbolic.

Leviticus 4–5 shows sacrifices were for unintentional sins, but the whole system pointed to Christ.

Supporting texts:

  • Hebrews 10:1–4 — “The law is only a shadow… it can never… make perfect those who draw near.”
  • Hebrews 10:10–14 — “We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
The writer of Hebrews explicitly says the entire sacrificial system and priesthood (not just part of the law) has been replaced.

5. Galatians 3:19 refers to the Mosaic Law as a whole, not just sacrifices.

“It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.” (Galatians 3:19)
Rebuttal:
The “law” here means the entire Mosaic code, including the Ten Commandments. It was given after the promise to Abraham to define sin and prepare for Christ (Romans 5:20; Galatians 3:24).

Supporting texts:

  • Galatians 3:23–25 — “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
    → If the “law” were only sacrifices, then we would still be “under” the Ten Commandments — but Paul says “no longer under the law.”
  • Romans 10:4 — “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Thus, Galatians 3 is not distinguishing two laws but showing the entire Mosaic system was temporary until Christ.

6. Romans 3:31 does not reinstate the Law of Moses.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
Rebuttal:
Paul means faith fulfills the law’s righteous purpose, not that believers remain under its covenant authority. Through Christ, the law’s moral intent is written on our hearts (Romans 8:3–4; Jeremiah 31:33).

Supporting texts:

  • Matthew 5:17 — Christ “fulfilled” the law, not perpetuated the old covenant form.
  • Romans 8:2 — “The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.”
Faith “establishes” the law by achieving what it aimed at — righteousness through Christ (see Romans 10:4 again).


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Where is James Comey's mugshot?

Gonna be an uphill battle to get to “beyond a reasonable doubt”.
Well, it's not even clear if this is about McCabe at all. The indictment says:

On or about September 30, 2020, in the Eastern District of Virginia, the defendant, JAMES B. COMEY JR., did willfully and knowingly make a materially false, Fictitious, and fraudulent statement in a matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch of the Government of the United Stales, by falsely stating to a U.S. Senator during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he, JAMES B. COMEY JR., had not “authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports" regarding an FBI investigation concerning PERSON 1.

2. That statement was false, because, as JAMES B. COMEY JR. then and there knew, he in fact had authorized PERSON 3 to serve as an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning PERSON 1.


As I understand it, referring to people not by name in an indictment isn't unheard of (hence "Person 1" and "Person 3"), though it does leave it unclear to us who they are. We can safely assume Person 1 is Hillary Clinton, but who is Person 3? We don't know yet. The post I was responding to appeared to assume it was McCabe and claimed McCabe said Comey told him to leak, but as I noted previously, McCabe never claimed Comey authorized him to leak.

Another possibility that has been floated as the identity of Person 3 is Daniel Richman, a professor at Columbia Law School who served as an advisor at the FBI. We do know that Comey used Richman to leak information to the press, but it wasn't about the Hillary Clinton investigation (and for that matter, came after Richman wasn't working with the FBI). The claim might instead be that Comey used Richman to leak information about the Hillary Clinton investigation on a prior occasion, but if so there is no real proof of it that's been made public.

Or, who knows, maybe Person 3 isn't either one of these, and is some other FBI agent.

Since we don't know what the government has, it is possible they have good evidence that Comey authorized someone to leak to the press about the Clinton investigation that just hasn't been shown publicly yet. So I don't want to say they definitely have no case. However, the (so far) rather slipshod nature of the prosecution does not inspire much confidence they do.
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Pope Leo says faith and love for migrants are connected

The problem with a lot of the religiously-based food banks, soup kitchens, second-hand clothing operations, etc... is that while they are providing the advertised service, it often comes with proselytizing, which creates a conflict of interest with regards to public money.

So people who go are getting the "free meal" in the same way that people get a "free blu-ray player" for sitting through a timeshare presentation.

Even when it's not overt, it's still introducing a concept I refer to as "passive proselytizing".

So when the government is giving a specific church funds to run a food bank or similar operation, they're basically buying them good PR, and making them seem more appealing than other Churches (and more appealing than non-religion in some cases), which can have a certain influencing effect.
Absolutely. I can't say about this particular organization as I have never seen them in action.
I know you're being somewhat tongue in cheek there...

But I think they'd have enough money to do both.

(wiki lists it as "incalculable due to widespread properties globally")

It's a lot of lawsuits. I figure every victim should get their own hospital.
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List of our different views about the Rapture

  • any time before the Antichrist commits the ToD act......@Douggg's view
  • no rapture.....@Gregory Thompson's view
  • before the 7 year tribulation starts, His Church to stay in the clouds for the 7 years......@ d taylor's view
  • no rapture to heaven, instead an earthly transportation to meet/be with Jesus at His return.....@ keras's view
  • rapture late January 2026/7...........@Marilyn C's view
  • Post-trib rapture ("after the tribulation of those days" - Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27)....@Spiritual Jew's view
  • no rapture..... @ViaCrucis's view
  • a rapture, but not to heaven, instead to a place on the present earth that God will designate as New Jerusalem....@Indentured Servant's view
  • Rapture/snatching away at the end of time (the very last day) to the GWT Judgement for all believers and non-believers. Only the martyrs are raised early and reign with Christ for 1000 years (the first resurection).....@1Tonne's view
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Are you spiritually sensitive?

In my experience when the Lord wishes me to stay away from someone He tells me why. The same holds true when He wants me to act. He’ll nudge me to reach out and tell me why. There’s moments when I see something and contemplate sharing it and He stops me and warns me where it will lead. In all these instances His clarity is foremost. I’m not guessing or relying on sensations or emotions. They can lead you astray.

Spiritually sensitive is an ambiguous term and its best to stick to the word. Are you referencing the gift of discernment in that statement? The other reminds me of empaths to some degree. What I shared above is a reflection of the gift. Some hear, see, smell and so on. I experience spiritual matters through several senses but the primary is hearing. He gives physical signs now and then to get my attention but its rarely the message. I would ask for clarification.

~bella
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

Let’s critique this latest version of your nonsense.

First of all the screen shots of the vases; these show different applications of software such as the scanner software Shining 3D, the downloadable metrology software Blender 4.4.2 and the free software version of Zeiss Inspector.
Anyone unfamiliar with the corresponding video can be misled into thinking this is part of the Karoyl’s earth shattering metrology software.
Either you are exhibiting gross incompetence by failing to realise the screenshots are misleading or worse still deluded into thinking these are examples of his software which would not be a surprise.
The other alternative this is a deliberate act of deception.

Secondly is the alignment problem, I have watched the video and from the 25 minute 20 second mark, Karoyl admits there is metrology software that does the job, namely ExTool which is the software for the handheld scanner Shining 3D he used in scanning the vases and Polyworks.
Since the software is apparently too expensive, he decides to use the freeware version of Zeiss Inspector with its limited alignment capabilities compared to the professional version.
Since this is not satisfactory, he decides with three other dudes to reinvent the wheel. If this is supposed to be a serious study, he should have purchased Extool or Polyworks which is not only compliant to ISO 1101 and therefore has no known bugs but also has 3D calculation capabilities.

This leads to the third point, you ultimately haven’t proven anything, three independent testers coming to the same conclusion is still a lie and you are completely out of depth by failing to realise your post shows Karoyl’s software is nothing more than a primitive method in evaluating the 2D characteristics of circularity and concentricity. It has no capability for 3D calculations such as cylindricity, profile for a surface and symmetry around a rotation axis.
This is the fifth or sixth time you have put his arguments to bed with well researched and presented facts. It will be intersting (amd frustrating) to witness how he imagines he will talk his way out of it.
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What Did You Learn In Church Today?

10/4/25 on 1 Samuel 17
Intimidation: Makes us feel small, can happen everyday. Others, Satan, systems, going to work.
Mocking: Can happen to us for our faith. "You think you're a son of God?"
Fear: About news: War, hunger, persecution
Belittlement: "I can't. I don't qualify. I won't."
Depression, anxiety, sadness.
People rely on what they have like money, health, & materials, so how do we rely on a God we can't see?
Jesus was crucified at Golgotha. Golgotha means giant. So the giant was cruicified. Satan no longer has authority over us. Jesus Christ, b/c he was crucified, has given us the win before we even start fighting, we already have it.
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BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

Where is. there . a verse where anyone can choose there path in life. ??
We have free will.
And what Commanments are we to KEEP. ?
The Ten Commandments, PLUS the additional Words of Jesus, that expands some of them.
And where is a verse where SINNERS are saved at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGNMENTS. ??
There is no such verse. ALL the ungodly and unrighteous people will receive the second death. That is;- annihilation.
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Trump sends troops to the 'warzone' of Portland...

No it was not. It is now though. It just rescued an entire apartment complex from criminal foreign gangs.
Did it? Who were they? What were their names? What are they charged with? It's been a week and I haven't seen any information about it.
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Trump’s Name Chanted in Israel AND Gaza After Peace Deal: ‘Nobel Prize to Trump!’

That's going to be your excuse for him not winning, is it? ^_^

Say nothing about him using military force against his own people, blowing up civilian boats, pardoning people who tried to overthrow democracy in his favour, his 'War Secretary' telling the military they can commit war crimes and numerous other not at all peaceful acts.

If the Nobel committee gives him the Peace Prize, it would be because they are afraid of him putting a price on their heads or invading their country.

I don't particularly care one way or the other, I just thought it was an interesting topic for debate/conversation.

As myself and other posters have pointed out, that particular Nobel prize doesn't necessarily have a credible track record in terms of quality to begin with

Nevertheless...

I was just pointing out that if he did manage to have a hand in bringing a reasonable end to Israel/Gaza and Russia/Ukraine conflicts by early-mid next year (in addition to the Abraham Accords and the TRIPP deal that he already brokered), and by this time next year, they give the award to someone who made a haphazard documentary about climate change, or the even more vague "they inspired hope"... then their credibility may be in question.

As far as things he's doing domestically, that's never been a showstopper before.

Let us not forget: Yasser Arafat was a Nobel Peace Prize winner. (a man who was famous for turning down peace deals, and was responsible for airline hijackings, the Munich Olympics massacre, and dozens of terrorist bombings)

So I'll suggest that's the (low) bar that the Nobel committees have set...

Anyone who's not as bad as Yasser Arafat is eligible to win a Nobel peace prize.
  • Agree
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A perspective on Baptism and the plan of salvation that I have not heard before

According to the Word of God ...

Romans 3:23​

New International Version​

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

All in includes Mary

Romans 3:10-12​

English Standard Version​

10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

Luke 1:47, "And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,"( said by Mary)

Mary herself recognized she needed a Savior
That still does not say she sinned. That is your inference from scripture and not scripture itself

As a creature, Mary is still dependent on the grace of God which she has in full measure.-
When you try to bring Mary down to our level, you do not insult us, you insult the grace of God and say not even the full measure is strong enough to keep us from sin.

You don’t realize it, but in doing so, you say sin is greater than God. He cannot save us from sin, He can only forgive us of sin, according to your reasoning. You just don’t realize how blasphemous that is. It sounds so good, but is so wrong at the same time. God is not impotent to save, He is mighty to save. He not only forgives sin, but cleanses us from all unrighteousness.


In Psalm 120 (Douay Rheims) we do not sing, God is powerless against my sin, He can only forgive not cleanse. No no a thousand times no! We sing

1 I have lifted up my eyes to the mountains, from whence help shall come to me. 2 My help is from the Lord, who made heaven and earth. 3 May he not suffer thy foot to be moved: neither let him slumber that keepeth thee. 4 Behold he shall neither slumber nor sleep, that keepeth Israel. 5 The Lord is thy keeper, the Lord is thy protection upon thy right hand.

6 The sun shall not burn thee by day: nor the moon by night. 7 The Lord keepeth thee from all evil: may the Lord keep thy soul. 8 May the Lord keep thy coming in and thy going out; from henceforth now and for ever.


To those that say God cannot save, He can only forgive, I can merely pray that God may have mercy on you. Do not harden your hearts. God does cleanse from sin and is mighty to save.


Do not listen to the false prophets of Jeremiah 8, who say “Peace, Peace when there is no peace. They say do not penance, God only forgives, He cannot cleanse. Do not fear sin, merely believe Jesus, your penance is pride” (paraphrased)

Do not listen to the grumbles of Israel who say the promised land is too fearful. There are giants in the land and we will be over run. Harken rather to Joshua and Caleb who say God is with us, we have nothing to fear

Jesus does not wink at sin. He sets us free from sin. He doesn’t just forgive us our sins and allow us to continue in them. That would be horrible. He promises to lead us free from sin, and we deny ourselves to take up our cross to follow Him.

John 8

31- Then Jesus said to those Jews, who believed him: If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him: We are the seed of Abraham, and we have never been slaves to any man: how sayest thou: you shall be free? 34 Jesus answered them: Amen, amen I say unto you: that whosoever committeth sin, is the servant of sin. 35 Now the servant abideth not in the house for ever; but the son abideth for ever.

36 If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. 39 They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
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