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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

...and President Trump will secure the great oil fields of Venezuela for the American people. Drill, baby, drill!

Just like the Iraqi oil fields that paid for the war!
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California to revoke 17,000 commercial driver’s licenses

I don't know who I can trust to be honest. The far-right wants to lower my wages, and the far left wants to raise the poor to my level, nullifying any monetary leverage I have...
What do you mean when you say "monetary leverage"?

There is no party for the middle-class... The largest class. That's probably because if there were, our numbers would keep us in power for a long time, and our current system doesn't like a monopoly on power.
Do you think it would be better if the Middle class were larger or do you ascribe to the idea that you MUST have people more economically disadvantaged than yourself?
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JD Vance, his Hindu wife and Christian conversion: Indian uproar

A debate has erupted online and in Indian social circles worldwide. The subject is U.S. Vice President JD Vance, who has been criticized for hoping that his Hindu wife, Usha, might one day share his Christian faith.

To right-wing Hindu extremists and left-wing elites, this is exaggerated as an act of war — proselytization, cultural assault, a colonial echo. The outrage is loud and the accusations swift. Yet beneath the noise lies a profound misunderstanding, not only of JD Vance, but of Christianity itself.

At a TPUSA event and in subsequent social media commentary, Vance spoke about his spiritual journey. When asked about Usha, a brilliant attorney raised in a Hindu home, he offered this reflection: “Do I hope, eventually, that she is somehow moved by the same thing that I was moved in by church? Yeah, honestly, I do wish that … I hope she may one day see things as I do."

Note that Vance has not suggested coercion or ultimatum. In fact, he has explicitly rejected force, saying, “But if she doesn't, then God says everybody has free will, and so that doesn't cause a problem for me.”

This is not proselytization. It is love, the kind Jesus modeled. Conversion in Christian theology is not a human transaction but a spiritual encounter. Jesus warned against forcing faith; in the Parable of the Sower, some seeds take root and others do not. Growth cannot be commanded.

Vance understands this truth. His critics do not.

Continued below.

Friday Night in Mississippi: Three Shootings

On a Friday in October, there were shootings in three towns, in three different counties, in rural Mississippi. This was Friday, October 11, and some of the shootings happened after midnight, on Saturday, October 12. The final tally is nine dead from gunfire, not counting a fetus, over two dozen injured by gunfire and one other death. Why Mississippi? It is a stand-your-ground state, which does not recognize a duty to retreat from violence, and it allows concealed carry and open carry of guns without a permit.

MSNBC quotes Nick Wilson, who works for the Center for American Progress. Wilson says, “Trump is sending the National Guard to Chicago, but Mississippi’s homicide rate is twice that of Illinois.” He goes on to say that permitless carry of guns can cause small disputes to turn deadly. Another observer blames the combination of guns, alcohol and drugs.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/mississippi-mass-shooting-leland-gun-violence-murder-valley-rcna237594

Trump Signs Order Rolling Back Tariffs on Hundreds of Food Items

Many Democrats just didn't understand how beneficial tariffs could be to our country.
Now even the Magadonians are starting to see how non-beneficial they can be.
It will be nice for everyone to get $2000 to put back into the economy.
It would be a lot nicer if it didn't come with the sacrifice of getting kicked off Medicare or losing ACA subsidies. Universal healthcare would be nicer for just about everybody.
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The rise of menace as a mainstream political tool

FBI conducting ‘in-depth’ study on law enforcement assault after crime report shows surge

Reported assaults on officers increased from over 83,000 in 2023 to 85,730 in 2024, according to the FBI, marking a 10-year high of assaults on law enforcement, up from the 52,448 attacks recorded in 2015.

“More officers were feloniously killed from 2021 to 2024 than any other consecutive four-year period in the past 20 years,”
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Violent Protests Erupt Outside Turning Point USA Event at UC Berkeley

These protests against Turning Point seems to be riding off the back of Charlie Kirks murder. Which is sort of the same mentality of killing Kirk for his beliefs and views.

Now its deplatforming these beliefs and views altogether from universities. Which is exactly the enforced ideology the protesters are protesting against. They are more or less saying 'only certain beliefs and views are allowed'.

We seen the same deplatforming and cancel culture going on for years. I though universities were the bastians of free speech and alternative ideas. Which actually help us discover the truth. That is what universities taught,. Critical thinking.

What are they actually teaching today. How to be a social justice warrior. How to save the world by tearing down their own insitutions and nation.
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The 5 stages

The person who becomes the Antichrist will go through 5 stages on the way to his destruction. The numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on the chart shows the transition points through those 5 stages.

1. as the little person, leader over a group of ten EU leaders.
The 5 stages is just a subjective opinion, but I'll go with it.

He is called a Little Horn (power) because the Last Beast is man, he never passes his kingdom on.

2. as the prince that shall come into middle east/Israel following the Gog/Magog event.
He probably follows Gog and Magog but that wat might still be going on at the pre trib. rapture.

3. as the Antichrist, perceived as the King of Israel messiah by the Jews (for a while).
This never happens, him being the King over Israel is just your erroneous interpretation my friend. Israel will simply join the E.U. this is how the AC gets political sway, he makes an "Agreement" which is what Israel joining the E.U. would be, an official agreement. When Alaska joined the USA it was via an official agreement (Covenant in Hebrew). Think logically, how could the AC ever conquer a Nuclear Israel swiftly? He couldn't, but if Israel joins the E.U. ad gives up their Nukes, as we would require of any state that joined us, lets say Greenland joined the USA and had Nukes, the authority over them would have to given to the Federal Government of the USA. Likewise the E.U. will demand this authority also. So, my best hunch is the Gog and Magog was sees God killing 5/6 of Gog & Magog's Armies, and this Anti-Christ E.U. President will claim he used a "secret weapon" to help Israel out since Israel could not Nuke the Armies on their own holy mountain. But . God by fire destroys them, just like God made Jesus' path straight, he will do the same with the AC. Also, by wiping out 5/6 of Russia, Turkey and Iran's Armies, that makes the AC path much easier. The 1260 Asteroid will take out the USA via fires and tidal waves on the west coast as the asteroid hits in the Pacific Ocean. Now he is free to go forth conquering.

4. as the revealed man of sin, end of stage 3, the Jews will reject him as continuing as their King of Israel.
He will only be revealed when he goes forth Conquering at the 1260 middle of the week. He will never be their King, he is the E.U. President. Did the UK ever consider the E.U. President as their King? Of course not.

5. as the beast of Revelation 13, of whom the statue image will be made of him and placed on temple mount as the AOD (abomination of desolation).
Yes, but its the 1290 (day 1230) not the 1335 (day 1185) the 1335 is the day the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God. And thus since the AC only goes forth on day 1260, the middle of the week. or 30 days after the 1290 (1230) then the AoD can not be the AC but is instead his sidekick, a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus Epiphanes. Reread Rev. 13 the 2nd Beast gets the people to make an image unto the Beast.

Matthew 24:29 describes the changes to the sun, moon, stars, that will take place during the sixth seal in Revelation 6. What it will be about is the appearance of the Son of Man - Jesus - to everyone living on the earth.
True, except the Seals are Prophetic Utterances by Jesus, not actual Events. The Seals all come to pass but only after the Trumps start, thus Trumps 1-4 is ONE EVENT and steroid Impact and Trump #4 is where the6th Seal Prophesy comes to pass.
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ICE Launches Initiative to Protect Vulnerable Children the Biden Administration Allowed to be Placed with Unvetted Sponsors

“Secretary Noem is leading efforts to rescue and stop the exploitation of the 450,000 unaccompanied children the Biden administration lost or placed with unvetted sponsors. Many of the children who came across the border unaccompanied were allowed to be placed with sponsors who were smugglers and sex traffickers. The Trump administration has located more than 24,400 of these children in-person, in the United States, through visits and door knocks," said Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin. "We've jumpstarted our efforts to rescue children who were victims of sex and labor trafficking by working with our state and local law enforcement partners to locate these children. President Trump and Secretary Noem are laser-focused on protecting children and will continue to work with federal, state, and local law enforcement to reunite children with their families."

Because of those who interfere with ICE or refuse to cooperate some of the children might not be rescued in time.

Why do people hate ICE...

This doesn't support what was stated. They aren't saying they want no immigration. They want seriously controlled immigration.
Apparently we read the following differently:


Noem was quickly dragged by prominent MAGA media influencers. The Daily Wire’s Matt Walsh replied to a viral clip of her comments, “We do not want or need more people to become citizens.”

Although, I suppose, one could argue that Walsh isn't opposed to all immigration, just permanent immigrants - they could come and pick crops as long as they leave at the season's end?

I do too. Speeding up rhe process isn't what we want. We want a controlled immigration which may include severely limited immigration including a possibilility of no immigration until we get illegal immigration under control.
I see, it's not that you want no immigration but that no immigration might be the best solution until some future possibly unattainable goal is met.
If 100,000 people apply for visas or citizenship or whatever and they are ALL good people with no records or no supporters of terrorism or terror regimes etc, doesn't mean we have to take them.
What a handsome straw man! I'm sure someone, somewhere, made that argument at some time....:rolleyes:
What we want is people we we really need. Ones that will be beneficial to this country with skills that we need. People that wont take jobs away from Americans but will supplement jobs where qualified Americans can't be found.
Sounds perfect.
Its not anti-immigration where they don't want immigrants just cause they don't want immigrants.
For some, it really is exactly that.
Heavily and severely controlled immigration is what is needed.
This is an ongoing discussion with ill-defined terms.
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Trump pardons Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, all fake electors for their attempt to overturn 2020 election, pardon official says

You guys keep saying that some of Biden's pardons are sketchy, but you haven't named a single one.
Well, I've named one before, namely pardoning his son. I haven't forgiven him for that.
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

So the structure is:
  • No one is able to come
  • unless the Father draws him (this produces ability)
  • and I will raise that same him -- that is, the one drawn/enabled
The one who is drawn = the one who is enabled to come = the one who is raised. There is zero grammatical space to claim that the αὐτόν of clause 3 refers to anyone other than the αὐτόν of clause 2. No Greek reader in the first century would have inferred any other referent. Not without a theological presupposition forcing something into the text that isn't there.
Logic certainly has to play its role here. I’d have no problem with your understanding if the passage said, “All who are drawn will come, and I will raise them up on the last day.”

John 6:44 can be rephrased as:
"All who come have been drawn, and I will raise them up on the last day."

This establishes a direct, firm connection at best between those who come and those who will be raised up, not between those who are drawn and those who come. The recipe for being raised up: drawing>coming>raising. If God draws but I don’t come, there will be no raising. Thus:
“Those who come to the Father I will raise up on the last day.”

Now, even then, was Jesus meaning to be exhaustive with that requirement, or was He just concisely stating a basic principle about the means to reach God and eternal life? Does a person who comes to God need to remain; can they stray? And what does coming to God mean? Does it mean there will be evidence of good fruit in our lives, of love for one another? Or does it just mean that I’ve ascertained that I believe in a certain manner?

With Scripture shedding light on Scripture, I believe there’s a gap of criteria or info left out of John 6:44, even as the principle itself is sound and true. When Jesus says in Mark 16:16, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”, does that mean that eternal life depends on baptism, for one? People argue it both ways.

When Jesus tells the rich young man in Matt 19:17, “If you want to enter life, keep the commandments”, was that meant to exhaust the requirements for salvation?

When Jesus tells us in Matt 5, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” or “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God”, do those conditions exclude the necessity of faith, or can/should we read that part in?
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Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Jesus said that was true before the cross, in John 16. IT is not something that became true at some later time.
Jesus had not left yet meaning that He had not been resurrected and gone to Heaven. The Holy Spirit will not come until then,


“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
In John 14 Jesus said the Holy Spirit already dwelt with His followers... before the cross
The Holy Spirit was not yet indwelling the believer. In John 14 it is a future promise and in John 16 it tells you when.

“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, so that He may be with you forever;”
‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
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Release from Epstein files

In a sharp reversal, President Donald Trump said late Sunday that House Republicans should support a measure that would require the Justice Department to release the information it has related to its investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein — after key lawmakers said support was building ahead of a closely watched vote.


It's refreshing to see Republicans finally exercise their Constitutional power to counter the Executive Branch. It may be a first under the Trump era.


Let's keep in mind the only reason why there was vote to force another vote in the house and the senate if it passes the house, is because Trump and his DOJ refuse to release the Epstein data.

In other words if Trump really wanted it out like he says in his reversal, there is no need for any voting and he can just release them today.

This is just tweeting with confidence now that he has ordered his Consigliere, Pam Bondi, to open an investigation on everyone but the person most mentioned in the Epstein emails (Trump himself) so they can now say, "we can't release anything, it's under investigation".
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He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

But this kind of mind set leads to all kinds of absurd ideas. Think about it for a minute. Whites commit 69% of all rapes and 74% of all sexual crimes. Should the police stop all whites for suspicion of rape or sexual crimes? Blacks commit 52% of all robberies should all blacks be stopped for suspicion of robbery?


Do you see the absurdity? There is no difference in the look of an illegal alien or a legal alien or citizen walking or driving down the street. There is no sign hanging from their necks identifying them either way. In general, a brown Mexican born here looks no different than one that did not.

Look, I have no problems deporting every illegal alien criminal living in the US which is what Trump ran his campaign under. But the bedrock of our justice system is probable cause and due process. Everyone in the US that is accused of a crime needs to go through the judicial system not just arbitrarily adjudicated guilty. What Trump is doing parallels to what we did to the Japanese during WWII. If our judicial system is not for everyone then the system fails everyone. Who knows another president might decide that Christians need to go and Trump is setting precedence.

Agreed.

I did not vote for Harris because of where the Democratic Party its been heading for quite some time. Trump, at the time, was the lesser of two evils but an evil nonetheless. My vote was against Harris but not for Trump. Both parties are operating at their respective extremes and that needs to change.




He also said to love the your neighbor and not oppress the stranger. I don’t think that we should demonize a whole race merely because some have crossed the border illegally.

““You shall not oppress a stranger nor torment him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭22‬:‭21‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Questioning someone’s citizenship is not oppression. Instead of inciting anger against ICE and HSA, it time would be better served in explaining the constitution to citizens.

Do you know how to handle police encounters?

You have the right to remain silent. If you talk to police, you waive that right. Instead of taking, show ID. If the officer does not believe you, argue in court, not with officer doing his job

Arguing and resisting arrest escalates the situation and gives the officer cause to subdue and detain you.

First rule of answering an officers questions is “I don’t have time to discuss my day.” You can say I am a citizen and show ID at this point but say nothing else. If he keeps asking questions, then ask, “Am I being detained or am I free to go?” If being detained, say I invoke the 5th amendment, then stay silent. Don’t answer any questions.
It is also important to say “I do not consent to any searches”

The officer will try to engage you in conversation with the goal to get you to waive your rights. I don’t care how justified you feel, arguing and resisting arrest crying racism does nothing to solve the problem. It gets resisting arrest and assaulting an officer charges added on.


We live in a nation of laws. We can learn to navigate the law or get run over by the law
Constitutional rights are only effective if used properly and not waived. They can’t be invoked retroactively.
It is the best way in the world found so far to regulate law enforcement. Learn your rights and proper behavior for law enforcement encounters, and you will live peacefully. Raids and targeted enforcement happen because it works. Illegals who have no right to be here are being removed

Latino people are not the enemy and they are not being treated as such. There is a nationwide search for criminals. If you are not a criminal, learn your rights to protect yourself, or you can keep listening to left wing agitators that make the situation worse, and then the insurrection act will be invoked, and guess what happens then? No one will have any rights

Do you really think that attacking ICE is doing any good to advance Latino dignity?
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What happens if someone dies before they became a believer, is it their fault?

What I said was, "There is no such thing as people who never had the opportunity to reject God, so, no, the Bible does not address them".
Again, you are saying an unborn baby rejected God since "There is no such thing as people" so I asking how is that possible?
How can you know an unborn baby is not a believer? God does what he will. He doesn't need our notions of what a person is, nor of what constitutes enmity with him.
An unborn baby does not fit the Biblical description of a believer. Under your scenario why would all unborn babies not be believers, since they can do nothing?
I compare the mind of the unborn, at whatever stage they can rightly be called a person, with the mind of the clinical idiot who has no brain activity registering, cannot hear, cannot see, doesn't respond to touch, and has no sentient "concepts" as we claim separates us from animals. Are you going to say that God cannot deal with him, and change his heart?
I would say those people unable to sin are in a safe condition not needing salvation, since they have not done anything wrong like "reject God".
On a scale with that clinical idiot on one end and God on the other, where do you think those of us who can read, consider and reason stand? I think I can guarantee you that our intelligence and self-awareness is much closer to the bottom of the scale than it is to God's place. We can all make definitions for 'sin' and 'omnipotence' and so on, but God's point of view is the only one that counts, in the end.
Mature adults have limited free will (Made in the image of God), so they can become like God having Godly type Love.
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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

Adam and Eve ceased to be individuals the moment God spoke His Words to them, ala Mark 4:15
Adam and Eve are still individuals when Paul writes to Timothy:

1 Tim. 2: 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Individuals are judged and not couples.

Mark 4:15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts.

How does this have to apply to Adam and Eve prior to sinning?

Are you trying to blame satan for Eve sinning?
From that point on it was Adam and the tempter within him, as well as Eve, with the tempter within her.
Are you saying satan was in Adam and Eve prior to their sinning and if not what caused them to sin?
They left the garden with the tempter intact, in their own sorry hides, predetermined to the death of their own flesh and so on to today
Do you know for sure they did not go on to heaven after they died and how do you know that?

God did not say: “The tempter is inside you from now on” and if he was, he not the one causing you to sin?
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Trump promises $2000 tariff dividend to all Americans

Do you know why people, and this will almost certainly include you, prefer to buy goods that are manufactured overseas? Clothing, shoes, white goods, Tv's, computers, mobiles..?
I don't think that's actually true. Americans want quality products more than cheap foreign junk. The exception would be high quality products made in places like France, Germany, Switzerland or Italy. We'll gladly pay for their top goods.
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World’s Largest Statue of Our Lady of Fatima Inaugurated in Brazil

‘Working on this piece was, for me, a form of prayer in motion,’ says sculptor, who is now planning a trip to the Marian sanctuary in Portugal.

Think of the largest and most iconic sculptures on the planet. Do the Statue of Liberty in New York or Christ the Redeemer in Rio de Janeiro come to mind?

Now, an even taller statue has debuted: the largest sculpture of Our Lady of Fatima in the world, inaugurated on Thursday in the Brazilian city of Crato.

With an impressive height of 177 feet (the equivalent of a 15-story building), the new sculpture rises in the middle of an extensive urban plain — making visible the strong Marian devotion of the region’s inhabitants, inscribing faith in the landscape itself.

With an interior made of polyurethane and an exterior composed of fiberglass membranes with resin, a gel finish and special paint, the sculpture was created in parts, which were then transported to Crato and assembled like a 3D puzzle. In total, the work took one year and five months to complete, involving a team of more than 30 people. At the same time, a new sanctuary was built around it, equipped with services for pilgrims, a replica of the Chapel of the Apparitions in Fatima, Portugal, and pastoral assistance.

Continued below.

Wes Huff Responds to Claim the Bible Was ‘Compiled Hundreds of Years’ After Jesus by a ‘Pagan Emperor for Political Reasons’

I think much of the objections come from the idea that the Catholic church was the church that ended up putting the bible together. But if it wasn't the CC it would have been a church that grew out of the early church after Christ.

I think its silly to say that the Gospels and letters are just added centuries later. We know that extracts of the bible were floating around because Clement in 88AD cits some of it. The Didache also aligns with the bible written in 70AD. THen theres Pauls letters.

But basically the New Testament is the Gospel and everyone knew that. Paul was assaulted for testifying it. The disciples were executed for it. Many Christians were persecuted for it. Theres heaps of evidence of early Christian references in archeology.

Its unreal to think that nothing was written down during and soon after Christ. Though much was oral. Pauls letters are dealing with matters in the early church and are what we would expect for that time. Clements letters to the early church and later Ignatius are exactly what we would expect for that time.

All the CC did was put together what was already circulating and all was written within the first century. You can't leave any of it out as these are the disciples of Christ and the disciples of the disciples.

In fact never mind all the modern rationalisations and conspiracies. Everything we need to know is in the bible including how Christians and the church are to live and be ordered under Christ. When all else fails return to the drawing board and original instructions. Not some reinterpretation centuries later lol.

Its ironic because the objection or claim is about truth in Christianity and the bible. As though the objector is claiming they have discovered the truth some 2000 years later. As many do today. Which is doing exactly what they object to by rationalising the church and bible as an untruth. Then someone will come along and challenge that claim and so it continues moving further away from the truth.

Aftyer a while it starts to not look like Christianity anymore but a new religion.
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Charlie Kirk’s Grandmother Was a Devout Catholic

Charlie Kirk: “My grandma was a very devout Catholic. I grew up looking at pictures of John Paul II, She would watch EWTN all the time. I have great reverence for Catholics” When Charlie interviewed John Yep, president of Catholics For Catholics directly from Rome during the historic Conclave, they both shared something fascinating in common: Their grandmas were devout Catholics and fans of EWTN.

Charlie always showed great respect and reverence for Catholicism—the same faith he embraced more and more until the end of his life. We still remembering him with love and admiration. His legacy lives on. WATCH >

Continued below.

Polish railway explosion an 'unprecedented act of sabotage,' prime minister says. Route is "crucially important for delivering aid to Ukraine."

"Unfortunately, the worst fears have been confirmed," Tusk said in a post to X on Monday morning. The detonation "of an explosive device destroyed the railway track," the prime minister added.

Tusk did not name any suspects or a potential motive for the alleged sabotage. The prime minister did, however, note the line's importance in delivering aid to Ukraine.

In a later post, Tusk said the incident was "an unprecedented act of sabotage targeting directly the security of the Polish state and its civilians. This route is also crucially important for delivering aid to Ukraine."

"We will catch the perpetrators, regardless of who their backers are," Tusk added.

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