I think it’s a fuzzy issue. I believe as far as icons, it must be the Son of God. As far as scripture ( Daniel 7) & tradition ( for example. attested to in Enoch) the understanding is more towards the Father. The account in Enoch seems to conform to & help explain Daniel 7 so it seems sound.

Desk trauma said:

Don’t care.

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It’s hard to kick against the pricks.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Doesn't prove that the world is flat though. A flat Earth wouldn't have a horizon.

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It doesn’t. We have a vanishing line due optics.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

I don't 'trust' science. I accept scientific facts and observations based on evidence found through deduction, study and work.

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Ok, so you've conducted personal experiments that prove the earth is round? Or are you accepting what others are telling you because it makes sense to you.

Listen I'm not arguing against a round earth, but all everyone has done here is parrot the EVIDENCE provided by other scientific entities. And all I've stated is that "trust the science" doesn't mean what it used to mean.

It comes down to this, flat earthers are crazy because they don't accept what we are told. That doesn't make sense to me any more

Righteous anger at the way things is.

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jonojim1337 said:

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The same way your line of sight increases as you go higher even on a flat surface.

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Doesn't prove that the world is flat though. A flat Earth wouldn't have a horizon.

Hentenza said:

God was not born.

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Says so multiple times.

jonojim1337 said:

Because it’s about when God was born.

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God was not born.

prodromos said:

No one here is saying, "trust the science".

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Really, read through the post again

Bradskii said:

I think Del has left the building. I was going to point out another couple of problems for him.

The first is that ships at night have navigation lights. On certain size ships there'd be two white lights visible from the back as she sails away from you. One on the stern and one atop the mast. If the world was flat then you'd always see those two lights. But as the ship sails away the lower one dissapears. Maybe Del could explain that.

And to contact the ship you'd use VHF radio. Except that as it sails over the horizon it will cut out. And aircraft at 10,000 feet with a decent VHF can contact ships at a distance of around 200 miles. But as the plane flies lower, the radius of the circle within which it can make contact gets smaller. Perhaps he would have had an answer for that as well.

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The same way your line of sight increases as you go higher even on a flat surface.

Hentenza said:

What makes you think that I deny the NT?

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Because it’s about when God was born.

Daniel Martinovich said:

What’s the point though? Did you read the link? The new Jerusalem is Gods people in the here and now on earth. Suffering and then triumphant on earth.

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The Body of Christ is never called the New Jerusalem and it is not our inheritance but for the OT saints. (Heb. 11: 16)

Our inheritance in on the Lord`s own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

eclipsenow said:

Yes and no.

Other apocalyptic symbolism of the time shows us that it works by dressing up the political entities of the day as villains, and the 'goodies' somewhat as universal archetypes.

So there are specific warnings to specific churches - but at the same time we know from history that there were 10 main churches in that area. John chose 7. Why? It's the perfect number. It's the universal number.

So just as Paul wrote to the Corinthians a few times - and it was specifically to teach and rebuke and encourage them - but also us today - so too Revelation works like that.

But you haven't answered the main issues above.

Is John saying "Toughen up princess" to his generation or not? Is he patronising their struggles by saying "You just wait till you see what starts in 1948, and all the failed and ridiculous prophecies that my letter will generate around then!"

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The Lord sent His Holy Spirit to guide us into all the truth of the Lord`s character and His purposes. (John 16: 12)

Character.

Thus we read of the Lord in the midst of the churches as the Head of His Body, the one who is the First and Last, risen from the dead, He who is the word of God, (sharp two-edged sword) the very Son of God, who has the Holy Spirit (7 fold Spirit) who is holy and true the Amen and faithful and true witness. Quite a description there.


Then we move on to seeing the Lord on His own throne the Father set up, (Ps. 2: 6 Rev. 4: 2) with His body, (Rev. 4: 4) and the Lord worshipped by angels and the Body of Christ.


Purposes.

It is a throne of judgment with `lightnings, thundering and voices..` (Rev. 4: 5) Then the Father gives His Son the scroll with what will be judged by the Son. (John5: 27) From then on we read of the judgments .................till all things new.

So I don`t read as in `toughen up princess.`

jonojim1337 said:

They usually deny the New Testament.

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What makes you think that I deny the NT?

Landon Caeli said:

Apparently if you want to burn your own copy of the Koran outdoors, people of that "faith" have the right to steal the book away from you. That happened earlier this week too.

No theft charges even considered.

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Try it with a Bible and get back to me.

concretecamper said:

Yeah, it's round .

However, "trust the science" has lost all credibility in the past 5 years.

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No one here is saying, "trust the science".

Hentenza said:

Whatever makes you think that?

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They usually deny the New Testament.

essentialsaltes said:

Do they interrupt your religious services to do so?

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Yes. They do.

• 1989 St. Patrick's Cathedral Incident: Members of the AIDS advocacy groups ACT UP and WHAM disrupted a Sunday Mass led by Cardinal John O'Connor in New York City, resulting in 111 arrests.
• 2015 Las Vegas Incidents: A group of protesters, identified as ex-Muslims turned Christians, disrupted services at multiple Catholic churches across the Las Vegas valley, shouting messages against the Catholic faith and distributing literature.
• March 2024: Protesters disrupted the Easter Vigil Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York, holding a banner and chanting "Free Palestine," leading to their arrest by police, says NBC New York.
• January 2021: Pro-choice activists disrupted a pro-life Mass at St. Joseph Cathedral in Columbus, Ohio, holding signs that said "Fund abortion not cops" before being removed.
• August 2021: A group protested outside a Catholic church in Edmonton, leading to a physical confrontation with parishioners who blocked their entry.

Desk trauma said:

The Least likely explanation.

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I'll agree it isn't very likely, though it would be unChristian of me to rule it out entirely. Still, it is interesting that MAGA Christians won't consider it.

Desk trauma said:

Her resignation is scheduled for a day after she qualifies for retirement benefits. Off into the sunset to enjoy her insider trading windfall.

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Looks like she beat Trump at his own game. Well played!

iluvatar5150 said:

Oh, is that what this is? Humility?

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No, this is a verbal reprimand.

I do believe in the literal- physical; coming, past present and future of the Lord. I do not believe in the traditions of men about second advent heralding the end of the world as we know it.

Someone should write a song called "2025". It's been a great year so far.

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GoldenBoy89 said:

Good thing they’re not going to Magic Mountain then.

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I don't even wanna know what that might mean.

jonojim1337 said:

What are you, a Jew?

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Whatever makes you think that?