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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

This image shows suspected drug smugglers surrendering aboard their boat in the Pacific Ocean on June 19, 2012.
The engines of their fleeing boat were disabled by a U.S. Coast Guard gunner firing from a helicopter, after which the individuals raised their hands in the air.
Which will do nicely to show how far you've fallen. If that boat was spotted this week and whoever was in charge said that they were going to disable it, board it and arrest the two men, you'd say no. You'd demand that they be summarily executed. And if you found an hour later that they'd survived after the boat was destroyed then you'd order another strike to kill them.

How some people get to this point I'm not really sure. This ain't politics anymore. This isn't arguing about tariffs or immigration quotas. This is murder.
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"The Meaning of Foreknew in Romans 8:29"

Calvinist claim is that "whom He foreknew" is speaking of a specific people because of the "whom". I agree with that. The claim by them is that the Arminian view changes that to 'whom He foreknew would come to faith'. In other words, they claim that Arminians changed the "whom He foreknew" into a "what He foreknew". Although, I think it's fair to say that Arminianism qualifies 'Whom He foreknew' with someone coming to faith. In other words, "whom" cannot be separated, or put before faith, because faith is the qualifier that determines the "whom". It's not adding to the Word, it's doing what Calvinism does, seeing through a different lens. Calvinism adds 'whom He foreknew from the foundations of the world' in that same way. It's not in the text, but it's added because in the Calvinist mindset, that's the context that they see it in.

I think that Arminianism is on track with that thought of not separating our faith from God knowing us personally, intimately. So in a sense, it is foreseeing, if we qualify our being foreknown by Him with that faith, while holding to the original meaning of 'whom He foreknew', meaning intimately. But, the Calvinist will find it irresistible to attack the over simplified version, even though it probably is not entirely accurate. It's more of a half truth, if you will, that paints a false picture. This half truth is actually how it must be viewed from the Calvinist lens. In Arminianism, faith qualifies God foreknowing someone intimately. Calvinist will argue that foreknown is changed from a who to a what, but I disagree. It's just qualified with faith.

So, in Short, I agree that "Foreknew" in that passage means more than mere knowledge. You can see that in Romans 11:2. Sometimes, in Scripture foreknown, or foreknew does have a that pregnant meaning. Also, If God is not bound by time, then He does know everything. That's omniscience.
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

The writings of Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. In other words, the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Here are her writings:

Reception of Mark of the Beast Future—The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false sabbath in the place of the true, are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. The mark of the beast is the papal sabbath, which has been accepted by the world in the place of the day of God’s appointment. Ev 234.1
No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast. Ev 234.2
With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Manuscript 51, 1899. Ev 235.1
When Seal of God Is Refused—If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls “My holy day,” you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.—The Review and Herald, July 13, 1897. Ev 235.2
As a Result of Disregard of Light—God has given men the Sabbath as a sign between Him and them, as a test of their loyalty. Those who, after the light regarding God’s law comes to them, continue to disobey and exalt human laws above the law of God in the great crisis before us will receive the mark of the beast.—Letter 98, 1900. Ev 235.3
Caution in Presenting the Sunday Question—[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted this spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation.—Letter 55, 1886. Ev 235.4
Let the Truth Do the Cutting—Satan’s efforts against the advocates of the truth will wax more bitter and determined to the very close of time. As in Christ’s day the chief priests and rulers stirred up the people against Him, so today the religious leaders will excite bitterness and prejudice against the truth for this time. The people will be led to acts of violence and opposition which they would never have thought of had they not been imbued with the animosity of professed Christians against the truth. Ev 236.1
And what course shall the advocates of truth pursue? They have the unchangeable, eternal Word of God, and they should reveal the fact that they have the truth as it is in Jesus. Their words must not be rugged and sharp. In their presentation of truth they must manifest the love and meekness and gentleness of Christ. Let the truth do the cutting; the Word of God is as a sharp, two-edged sword, and will cut its way to the heart. Those who know that they have the truth should not, by the use of harsh and severe expressions, give Satan one chance to misinterpret their spirit.—The Review and Herald, October 14, 1902. Ev 236.2
A Call to Enlighten the Masses—I have been shown that Satan is stealing a march upon us. The law of God, through the agency of Satan, is to be made void. In our land of boasted freedom, religious liberty will come to an end. The contest will be decided over the Sabbath question, which will agitate the whole world. Ev 236.3
Our time for work is limited, and God calls us as ministers and people to be minutemen. Teachers as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves must come to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty. There are many who do not understand the prophecies relating to these days, and they must be enlightened.—Letter 1, 1875. Ev 237.1


Is Ellen White correct? Are those that worship our Lord on Sunday doomed to receive the mark of the beast?
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Dear Pete Hegseth, I’m Grateful the Japanese Navy Spared My Grandfather’s Life

The laws of armed combat
We are not at war with Venezuela or drug traffickers. The drugs, if any on the boats, are not headed to America, at least not directly.
says that lethal force can be authorized against an enemy combatant once the enemy target has be confirmed and is not surrendering.
Surrender has not been offered to any of the boats.
Nothing more. Just another reminder, we are not talking about criminals, we are talking about designated terrorists
6 Mexican cartels and 2 transnational cartels have been designated terrorists by Trump but drug traffickers have not, nor has Congress designated the cartels as foreign terrorists. This leaves the legality of using deadly force against the vessels leaving Venezuela in serious doubt.
and combatants in the global war of terror. No different than ISIS.
The Cartels are not designated combatants under the global war on terror.
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Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own

Scientists already have "admitted" this, In fact they insist on in in the face of Christian lies to the contrary.
Then some have forgotten when they use this to beat down Christian beliefs and God with that very science lol.

Whenever someone demands evidence or otherwise a Christian is deluded and a fool. They are using material science as a belief and not science. You only have to look at threads like this and you will see it everywhere.

Fervent atheists and other materialists saving the deluded Christians with preaching naturalistic beliefs of how there was no need for God lol. Almost like a religion itself.
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President Trump's message on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception

Amazing. There's a saying, no Mary, no Jesus; know Mary, know Jesus. Could conversion be a possibility? I think Charlie Kirk was on the same path.
Well, First Lady Melania Trump is reported to be a practicing Catholic, so in that sense I suppose a conversion by the President would have some logic behind it. Having said that, I will leave it up to others here to speculate how likely it might be for President Trump to convert.
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B flat B♭

I am under no obligation to take into account what you consider an accurate flat earth map or not.
Of course not, because you live in a fantasy land. You are completely free to believe in whatever springs from your fevered imagination. Likewise, we are under no obligation to treat any of the nonsense you post seriously. It is mildly entertaining to see what sort of drivel you are capable of producing, but nothing more than that.

Charlie Kirk Didn’t Shy Away From Who He Was. We Shouldn’t, Either

Again you cite the EO he issued after 3 and a half years of telling us it was out of his reach.
It lowered crossings by 40% it was just 3 and a half years too late.
The border was a disaster under Biden, everyone has seen the videos and read the statistics.
To claim otherwise is delusional
There was no "humanitarian crisis." There were no "overwhelmed capacities." Those predictions never came true, as you numbers indicate.
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Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own

But if I buy the whole Orthodox Christian story of 'God the creator' then I have to ask myself... why in the heck did God do such a poor job? I mean just think about it, the earth that you and I live on is currently crawling with a 'multitude' of fallen angels and demons who are constantly trying to corrupt our very souls. Thank you God for the 'wonderful' world that you've created for me to live on.
But is not this just your belief itself. You claiming to be God and having all knowledge. Your own fallible little imagination making up stuff according to your experiences, biases and worldview beliefs.

It seems to me you are an observer from the outside looking in and do not even know Gods Word as a believer. Surely this must be tainted compared to those who know God closely.
That seems like a horrible plan to me, and therefore the Orthodox Christian God is somebody that I'm not really willing to accept as a worthy recipient of my undying praise and admiration. Surely that's not an unreasonable position for me to take.
Please refer to above
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The soul of Vladimir Putin

God's place to judge
"For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father." (in John 5:22-23)

Included in how Jesus judges could be what He says in Luke 9:55-56 > after James and John asked Him if He wanted them to call down fire upon people who had rejected Jesus >

"But He turned and rebuked them, and said, 'You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.'" (in Luke 9:55-56)

And our Apostle Paul says what to do "first of all" >

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men," (1 Timothy 2:1)
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My son's medication

Please pray to God and ask Him if my son Jakeb's medicine will be called in and filled before he runs out. Please pray that I can know tomorrow so my anxiety stops and he won't go without. Please Dear God let it be filled tomorrow if it's Your will. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you.

Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

I'm waiting for a link or something.
I have already given it. How can you not know about this. Like I said the biggest Fraud in US history under the watch of the Dems. So when you claim Trump lacks credibility then you have to apply the same to the Dems. Even moreso as they make Trumps look like childs play.

How Minnesota Became the Land of 10,000 Frauds
The simple explanation: The state makes it easy for criminals to get away with their wrongdoing.

Government watchdog says evidence in Minnesota fraud cases 'overwhelming'
Show me a doctor's certification that says otherwise, or admit you're making it up.
Do you honestly believe Biden was cognitively sharp and capable. You really have been brainwashed.

'Diminished faculties,' 'faulty memory,' 'significant limitations': A damning report on Biden's mental state

Cover-Up of Biden’s Mental Decline “Bigger Than Watergate”

Joe Biden's advisors hid his decline

Biden occupied the presidency incapacitated cognitively so there are bound to be coverups and decisions made without him and on his behalf. It will all come out. The truth always comes out in the end.
I gave them ewo posts back. Obama was one of the faceless men and those around him. He orchestrated the fake news to get Trump along with Hilliary and others.
Clinton said release the files, as he's got nothing to hide. Trump tried to suppress the files.
Now he has released them.

Bill Clinton identified more than 50 times in Jeffrey Epstein doc dump
https://www.news.com.au/world/bill-...m_source=SEM&utm_medium=PPC_SEM&utm_campaign={campaign}&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=14741959806&gbraid=0AAAAADnTK2_XasBOupW1rQbdPfw_waqnL&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi9rJBhCYARIsALyPDtv5cunU-sq0aSS4clscDhhgIVb92mz7D93FO1VdMmFL805wd1l9QAoaAhGNEALw_wcB

Larry Summers was a Dem under Obama and was head of Harvard Uni until he had to resign for his connection to Epstien.
Bring it! Let the chips fall where they may.
Ok thats good and I agree. Let the truth come out so we can finally have some transparency as to what has happened. I am sick of those in power taking advantage. If thats either part then so be it.
This is dishonest. Your posting a pic that has no context and may be innocent as being guilty. I gave you specific examples. Summers has resigned for his connection. I gave you fact based linked as support. Trump has done nothing wrong in this photo and its dishonest to imply otherwise.

This is the exact same bias and dishonesty in distorting what has happened with the Narcos as innocents and that Hegseth and Trump are murders and commiting war crimes.
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For those who are gamers, how do you handle Christian Ethics vs gaming?

And, yes . . . what about Christian games? I would think that, by now . . . . we have Jesus people who are pretty expert in computer operations.
That's a good point.
I watched two animated movies made in 3d, and there were really funny, and beautifully made I would say.
There are indeed talented people out there who want to give people entertainment that is proper for Christians, and I appreciate that.

I haven't come across any Christian games, but I'm sure that's because I haven't searched for any.
Doing a quick search...
Several games based on the biblical story of Noah's Ark have been developed across different platforms and formats. One notable title is Noah's Ark, a platform game originally released in 1992 for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) by British studio Source Research & Development and published by Konami in Europe.
That sounds interesting.

This one, however, seems too close to the world for me, unless there are wild animals attacking the player.
Super 3D Noah's Ark, is a non-violent Christian first-person shooter developed by Wisdom Tree and released for the Super NES in 1994 and MS-DOS in 1995. It uses the Wolfenstein 3D engine but replaces combat with a slingshot that shoots food to knock out animals like goats and elephants.

Yes. With AI, it's possible to have your characters and props exactly how you want them, even without artist skills.
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Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

Looks like they were surrendering.
View attachment 374095
Love AI of hate AI - here is the truth behind this picture:

This image shows suspected drug smugglers surrendering aboard their boat in the Pacific Ocean on June 19, 2012.
The engines of their fleeing boat were disabled by a U.S. Coast Guard gunner firing from a helicopter, after which the individuals raised their hands in the air. The photo was released by the U.S. Navy and the incident has been a subject of discussion regarding the rules of engagement for such interdictions.

Wrong year - wrong decade - wrong body of water and wrong military force.

How embarrassing
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I have a question and I’m confused

I was not even expecting LCMS, WELS and ELS.

Color me shocked.

IN any case I don't mind multiple AI platforms returning consistent results for the same query.

Indeed, but you’re not getting consistent results on a single platform - chatGPT (which you did indicate in your initial post you were using). I’ve executed exactly the prompt you told me to, and as you can see, your denomination is absent. And since the results diverged, that rather conclusively proves my point.

What is more, insofar as you admitted you were modifying your questions to try to get consistent results on different platforms, that by itself demonstrates my point: AI is an unqualified authority. The fact that minor changes in wording produce different results for different users demonstrates the fallacy of appealing to AI as an authority, and its uselessness in answering questions involving statistics based on disputed terms (consider: there are divergent sets of statistics, the meaning of denomination and administration is disputed, the meaning of Sola Scriptura is disputed - chatGPT 5.1 specifically excluded the SDA from its results when I ran it on the basis of it deeming, in the moment, your church as not Sola Scriptura) should be a massive red flag.

By the way, this is not a technological limitation - your question is itself not capable of being rationally answered in a consistent manner, in that the terms it uses have disputed meanings (denomination, Trinitarianism, administration, Sola Scriptura). Without precise definitions of each term, even with perfectly reliable LLMs your question could not produce reliable results; rather, whatever random variables and the training data of the model favored as the definition would shape the output. If you do precisely define the terms, furthermore, you will simply move the debate to the question of whether those definitions are correct, which would be another can of worms, indeed a forty gallon drum of worms.

So, given all this, do you still intend to regard AI as a qualified authority or will you accept that appeals to LLMs are appeals to unqualified authority, at least outside of certain narrow problem domains (which I defined clearly, basically, LLMs are reliable only at solving pattern recognition problems uncontroversial parameters).
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