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d taylor · 2025-12-14T21:40:32-0600

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https://people.com/rob-reiner-dead-all-in-the-family-director-8653589

1Tonne · 2025-12-14T21:34:51-0600

JulieB67 said:
Why have you added soul?

I’m explaining how the imagery functions and how the word “worm” was used in early times. In Psalm 22:6, David writes, “I am a worm.” This is self-descriptive language; he is not talking about literal worms, but about himself as reduced, despised, and treated as refuse. In Hebrew thought, “worm” can metaphorically describe a person brought to utter shame and contempt.
Jesus’ words in Mark 9:48 use the same imagery, describing someone utterly despised. That’s why I bracketed the word “soul” for clarity. Just as David used “worm” to describe himself, Scripture elsewhere identifies the human person as a living soul (Gen 2:7). Referring to the “worm” as the person/soul under contempt and judgment aligns with biblical usage.
The point isn’t zoology; it’s the ongoing condition of the judged person. The “worm” is a metaphor for the person who is despised, not a literal insect.

JulieB67 said:
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Christ states both body and soul which would mean fully destroyed. He can't make that any clearer by including both.

And yes, the smoke of their torment rises forever. That does not mean they will be tormented forever.

I understand that the primary meaning of apollumi is ‘destroy fully,’ but in Scripture, context often determines the nuance. Here, ‘destroy both soul and body’ is consistent with eternal ruin, complete separation from God, rather than annihilation, because the verses around it (e.g., Mark 9:48; Revelation 14:10) describe ongoing conscious judgment. Destroying in this sense is about ruin, not non-existence.

JulieB67 said:
Meaning according to you that both live eternally. But you can't exactly state that can you?

I’m not saying the wicked receive eternal life. Scripture clearly distinguishes eternal life with God from eternal ruin under His judgment. Both exist forever, but one is a blessed, conscious union with God; the other is a conscious state of loss, separation, and ongoing ruin. They ‘live’ in the sense of conscious existence, but only the righteous share in eternal life.

RocksInMyHead · 2025-12-14T21:33:35-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
I mentioned why that could be the case.

Another poster mentioned "ASL is it's own language" (Like Spanish, Japanese, French, etc...)

Trump heavily leverages things like alliteration, "play on words", rhyming, and hyperbolic rhetorical devices.

Things that don't translate well between languages.

Sure - so we ban all translation of Trump's words to languages other than English? Lol. Furthermore, text is very bad at conveying tone, and Trump also heavily uses tone of voice to emphasize his points. Simply reading the words that he says doesn't convey the full meaning either. But ASL does have ways to express tone.

ThatRobGuy said:
The other aspect (and yes, I'll just say the quiet part out loud so we can all stop beating about the bush), there are times where it can be a distraction from the actual content.

This seems like it would be a very easy problem to deal with from the government's perspective. If an ASL interpreter goes "beyond linguistic necessity," then they're fired/not used again (not sure if they're government employees or contracted). Easy-peasy. "We're not going to do ASL interpretation at all because some ASL interpreters can get a bit extra," is a really weak excuse.

Factotum · 2025-12-14T21:29:46-0600

Allegedly a 78yr-old man and a lady were found dead at his home, but they won't give any victims names. They only say it was a Robbery-Homicide.
Weiner is 78yrs-old.

Please add info if you know whats the deal. Thanks...

2 found dead at Brentwood mansion that belongs to director Rob Reiner

A man and woman were found dead inside a home in Brentwood that records and neighbors tie to director Rob Reiner.

www.nbclosangeles.com

Carmenls · 2025-12-14T21:28:10-0600

My son Jakeb has a doctor appointment tomorrow. He is not doing well mentally at all. Please pray for God's healing love and to protect him. Please pray that God keeps him safe tonight. Calms his mind and no bad thoughts please. A mother's greatest fear is to lose her child. Please pray that won't happen. That God will get him through this and guide us and his doctors. Please ask God to give him some joy and keep him safe. He's crying. Please Dear God give him some happiness. I ask in the name of Jesus. Thank you and God bless you.

BPPLEE · 2025-12-14T21:22:58-0600

I still have to use a walker or crutches to get around and still waiting for a decision on disability

Dale · 2025-12-14T21:22:10-0600

Sir Joseph said:
You've presented an interesting, diverse case against the Bible's historicity and authority - too much for anyone here to want to read actually. After glancing at 5 of the articles, I'll offer this response:

Your secular articles and sources are naturally going to oppose any Biblical world view of timelines.

The articles make a lot of date assumptions without actually supporting those assumptions with evidence.

Date evidence that is provided, such as DNA, is based upon debatable assumptions - unlike pottery dating.

Your statement that " Everything we know about the history of humans on earth contradicts the claim that the earth could be only 6,000 years old." is patently wrong. I've been reading books and articles and watching videos for 25 years that support a human history of 6-10,000 years. Perhaps everything YOU'VE read and learned negates a 6000 year old earth, but in no case does it represent everything WE KNOW. Everything I know suggests the exact opposite.

The truth is, each side can find abundant evidence to support their young versus old earth world view. Sources matter though, as does one's biased world view in interpreting the evidence.

Concerning your conclusion that "The Bible is a source of moral and spiritual truth, but it is not a history text." I understand that many people believe that, but know that Jesus, James, Peter, Paul, John and Jude didn't. Were they liars or wrong to reference the Genesis scriptures as real historical events? If so, then one would best dismiss whatever else they said or taught. In other words, if one rejects the historicity of Genesis, one rejects the credibility of Moses, Jesus, the apostles, the Bible, and the entire Christian faith.

Any serious Bible scholar knows through textual criticism that the Bible's inspired authors wrote what they beleived to be historical accounts or revealed knowledge from God. The fact that 40 authors in 3 continents, writing over a period of 1500 years, wrote thousands of specific names, places, and event details that we can now verify through archaeology, written records, fulfilled prophesies, and scientific insights demonstrates that the Bible's historical reliability and authority is as valid and true as its moral and spiritual truth.

Consider, either the whole Bible is to be trusted, or none of it is - as 2 Timothy 3:16 says:

"All scipture is God Breathed ..."

eleos1954 said:
One either believes the clear teaching of scripture of not. The estimated 6,000 years is derived from the careful record of genealogy that was kept (history of decedents)

People Poo poo the 6,000 years ... the animals on the ark were in pairs according to their family kind with the ability of variation within their own kind .... 6,000 years is plenty of time for us to see all that we see. There is no definite proof of macro evolution. It is based on theory. We have collected information and the interpretation of that information varies.

While the scientific method aims for objectivity, the process is carried out mostly by human researchers who have inherent subjective biases (no consideration of a divine creator)

Archaeology is not foolproof; it's a science with inherent challenges, prone to human error, misinterpretation, biases, and even deliberate fraud.

Eleos: << The estimated 6,000 years is derived from the careful record of genealogy that was kept (history of decedents) >>

Sir Joseph: << Consider, either the whole Bible is to be trusted, or none of it is - as 2 Timothy 3:16 says:"All scipture is God Breathed ..." >>

You should consider that the Bible does not say how old the earth is or how long people have been living on it. Eleos makes the point that the creationist figure for the age of the earth is derived from the genealogies in the Bible. Sir Joseph appeals to what Paul said about scripture. What did Paul say about genealogies?

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and
arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are
unprofitable and useless.
--Titus 3:9 NIV

Here genealogies are associated with arguments, quarrels and unnecessary controversies. Paul seems to view genealogies as a waste of time even if they don’t lead to violent argument. Another passage:

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in
Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach
false doctrines any longer
nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies.//
These promote controversies rather than God’s work —
which is by faith.
--I Timothy 1:3-4 NIV

Now genealogies are not only foolish, useless, and divisive, they are “myths.” Yet creationists claim to derive the age of the earth, and the universe, from these same genealogies.

peter2 · 2025-12-14T21:22:02-0600

Hello everyone

John told the difference between his own baptism, in water, and this of Jesus in spirit and fire

I make the hypothesis part of Jesus's consists in admitting the powerful Messiah could be defeated, and his life depend on men's good will.

According to this hypothesis, the first Jesus baptized would have been John the Baptist, when the latter, after opposition, finally consents to baptize Jesus. Then, the Holy spirit appears, a voice is heard, from God, and John is made able to bear testimony to Jesus.

Indeed,
JB thought and told it was him, JB, that was in need of the christian baptism, and not Jesus of his.
May be was JB in search of a Messiah that wouldn't be in need of him, JB
Because, actually, a Messiah in need of men wasn't fitted to be a Messiah, they thought.

Yes, may be, but
what do they think of a Messiah that'd let men think He is, or He's got the solution of their problems ?

However unbearable might be the question, i wonder yet whether such a Messiah wouldn't mean conforting men into demobilizing themselves ?

It's a deed JB will not follow Jesus, nor will the latter let JB follow him : After Jesus' baptism, JB still looks mobilized with his baptizings in water. Nothing new for him : An ordinary man, diminishing as he himself foretold ; Still no miracle happens through him ; as first baptized and convert (according to my hypothesis), the so called greater of prophets by Jesus will end up preceeding Jesus in death, beheaded, escaping to fall in oblivion in Herod 's prison thanks to Jesus' resurrection. The latter king whose name is only famous thanks to him, John..

Similarly to JB's unwillingness, they could analyse Simon's reproaches to Jesus as Jesus announces his death on the cross, and go on with this analyse up to the coming of the Holy Spirit in the Acts, that looks a bit like the coming of the Holy Spirit at Jesus baptism.

Finally, to conclude
the valuable questions of this thread are :

Is admitting one's oblivion by the world the mark they are true christians (see the anonymous diminishing of JB, from his not following Jesus up to Herod's prison ; see also the pagan share of Jesus' last stuff (his clothes), through their gambling, anonymous as well) ?

Might it be as well, the mark of a frustration of the world ? (chatgpt's answer admitted

)

BPPLEE · 2025-12-14T21:20:20-0600

1Tonne said:
Parables are illustrations, not exhaustive explanations. They are designed to highlight one main truth, not to map every detail literally. If we press every element woodenly, parables quickly break down. For example, in the parable of the lost sheep, the sheep is not literally a sinner wandering on four legs. In the parable of the sower, people are not literally soil. In the parable of the ten virgins, salvation is not obtained by buying oil at a shop.

Likewise, in the parable of the tares, the point is the certainty and finality of judgment, not how weed react in flames. To argue that because tares are burned up, therefore people must cease to exist, is to over-literalize the metaphor while ignoring Jesus’ own explanation that this judgment involves weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:42), which presupposes consciousness.

So, the parable teaches decisive judgment and exclusion from God’s kingdom, not the mechanics of what consciousness in judgment must be like. Parables clarify truth; they are not meant to replace the clearer, didactic passages that speak directly about eternal punishment.

It could also mean that lost people suffer Hell for a certain amount of time. Remember some would receive a few stripes others would receive many stripes

Dale · 2025-12-14T21:18:51-0600

eleos1954 said:
One either believes the clear teaching of scripture of not. The estimated 6,000 years is derived from the careful record of genealogy that was kept (history of decedents)

People Poo poo the 6,000 years ... the animals on the ark were in pairs according to their family kind with the ability of variation within their own kind .... 6,000 years is plenty of time for us to see all that we see. There is no definite proof of macro evolution. It is based on theory. We have collected information and the interpretation of that information varies.

While the scientific method aims for objectivity, the process is carried out mostly by human researchers who have inherent subjective biases (no consideration of a divine creator)

Archaeology is not foolproof; it's a science with inherent challenges, prone to human error, misinterpretation, biases, and even deliberate fraud.

Eleos: “One either believes the clear teaching of scripture of not.”

People tell me that they believe in “newspaper exegesis,” you read the Bible like you read a newspaper. Here’s a question for you: What if the original target audience for the Book of Genesis, the Israelites, had never seen a newspaper? Guess what – they had never seen a newspaper! Symbolic or figurative speech was very common at the time.

Dale · 2025-12-14T21:17:43-0600

Sir Joseph said:
You've presented an interesting, diverse case against the Bible's historicity and authority - too much for anyone here to want to read actually. After glancing at 5 of the articles, I'll offer this response:

Your secular articles and sources are naturally going to oppose any Biblical world view of timelines.

The articles make a lot of date assumptions without actually supporting those assumptions with evidence.

Date evidence that is provided, such as DNA, is based upon debatable assumptions - unlike pottery dating.

Your statement that " Everything we know about the history of humans on earth contradicts the claim that the earth could be only 6,000 years old." is patently wrong. I've been reading books and articles and watching videos for 25 years that support a human history of 6-10,000 years. Perhaps everything YOU'VE read and learned negates a 6000 year old earth, but in no case does it represent everything WE KNOW. Everything I know suggests the exact opposite.

The truth is, each side can find abundant evidence to support their young versus old earth world view. Sources matter though, as does one's biased world view in interpreting the evidence.

Concerning your conclusion that "The Bible is a source of moral and spiritual truth, but it is not a history text." I understand that many people believe that, but know that Jesus, James, Peter, Paul, John and Jude didn't. Were they liars or wrong to reference the Genesis scriptures as real historical events? If so, then one would best dismiss whatever else they said or taught. In other words, if one rejects the historicity of Genesis, one rejects the credibility of Moses, Jesus, the apostles, the Bible, and the entire Christian faith.

Any serious Bible scholar knows through textual criticism that the Bible's inspired authors wrote what they beleived to be historical accounts or revealed knowledge from God. The fact that 40 authors in 3 continents, writing over a period of 1500 years, wrote thousands of specific names, places, and event details that we can now verify through archaeology, written records, fulfilled prophesies, and scientific insights demonstrates that the Bible's historical reliability and authority is as valid and true as its moral and spiritual truth.

Consider, either the whole Bible is to be trusted, or none of it is - as 2 Timothy 3:16 says:

"All scipture is God Breathed ..."

Sir Joseph: “ I've been reading books and articles and watching videos for 25 years that support a human history of 6-10,000 years.”

Really? What I’ve seen is that creationists are retreating from what they once thought they could prove. Take the Glen Rose footprints, or Paluxy River footprints. For about a generation, from the 1950’s to the 1970’s, creationists saw them as evidence that dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Many creationists thought it was the best evidence they had. Take a look at the quote below.

John Morris was President of the Institute of Creation Research from 1996 until 2020.

Tracking Those Incredible Dinosaurs

BY JOHN D. MORRIS, PH.D.

SATURDAY, MAY 01, 2010

<< Perhaps the most notorious footprint-containing layer is the Glen Rose Limestone in central Texas, in the Paluxy River bed. Ever since the early 1900s, footprints of dinosaurs have been excavated here, along with elongated human-like footprints. To many, this proved humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time. For years while on the faculty of the nearby University of Oklahoma, I studied and documented these markings, and eventually wrote the definitive source book, Tracking Those Incredible Dinosaurs--and the People Who Knew Them, published by Master Books in 1980. Continued research led me to question the human interpretation of the human-like prints and, feeling the data were too ambiguous at that time to be certain, withdrew my book from circulation. Films for Christ withdrew their award-winning film Footprints in Stone from circulation at the same time. Research continues, and while I don't question the fact that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, I don't use the evidence from the Paluxy anymore. >>

Link: Tracking Those Incredible Dinosaurs | The Institute for Creation Research

SuperCow · 2025-12-14T21:16:31-0600

Mark Quayle said:
SuperCow said:

Which is it? A or B?

A. I have a choice whether to follow God.
B. God already knows whether I will choose to follow him or not.

Click to expand...

C. You will choose because you must. You cannot avoid it. And God knows what you will choose— knew it before the foundation of the world. Argue against the Bible, if you will: Have you not heard of the Biblical term, "the elect"? Do you think the "Bride of Christ" is a haphazard compilation of indeterminate members?

Actually your (C) answer is actually choice (B), which makes sense because we established your belief that God causes sin, and you admit again I choose because I must, cannot avoid it, and God knows what I will choose, which negates (A).

.Mikha'el. · 2025-12-14T21:14:58-0600

That shooting in Australia hurts my heart.

SuperCow · 2025-12-14T21:06:45-0600

Mark Quayle said:
Even YOU believe God is the creator of all that is. If he is that Creator, and if there is sin, then he caused that there be sin.

You finally admit it. This is what I have been trying to tell you all along. There is obviously sin, so God caused the sin. So he wanted sin in the world, because otherwise the only conclusion to take is that God does not want sin, but could not avoid it which would not make him omnipotent.

Therefore man did not cause the sin because man is not the first causer. The law of causality would say that everything man does including choice has an initial cause, which would be God. Therefore man is not responsible for his sin.

I disagree with this, but at least it is a logical position to take. We could have saved much of the discussion if you admitted this earlier. However, I challenge you to find a scripture where it says that God caused sin or wants it to happen.

johansen · 2025-12-14T21:05:30-0600

Carl for whatever reason i feel like you and I see eye to eye on a wide variety of issues but sometimes i think that you should spend time in prayer and get an answer from God yourself. Unless God is inspiring you to ask these questions publicly for a bigger purpose.

In my experience, everything in the spiritual realm operates by the spoken word.

So God created the universe by speaking it into existance.

Corruption came, and by our spoken words of confession of our corruption, we are forgiven. (And this is not by our physical mouth, but by our spirit speaking in the spirit).

The word of our testimony is all the words that we spoke, to or against God, the Son, the angels, humans, and demons that heard it.. but not all the words. its the words that were spoken in spirit and in truth and are spiritually relevant. In a sense its your whole spiritually relevant life story

Ultimately we all have to realize our physical lives have little to no value. But few figure that out in their own lifetime which is why the martyrs are commended.

Here is an example:

14 years ago i had a short conversation with an 8 year old girl who told me her mom had been shot. I will likely never meet her again, and for years i have wondered where she went, was it true what she told me, why did she seem to instinctually run down to the church basement away from everyone else and climb into a chair to sit next to me, etc. In a dream earlier this year i saw her, years ago, as a child, telling some of her friends how much what i told her helped her. What happened there is part of her testimony of Jesus, and mine.

Basically whatever is spiritually relevant in your process of overcoming the world is through Jesus and it is your testimony

BPPLEE · 2025-12-14T21:04:47-0600

DaisyDay said:
Uh-huh. You stated before that 20M people came in illegally over the border during the Biden administration but the total number of all illegal immigrants which include those who arrived in the decades before Biden is around 20M. That's a number Donald spouts from time to time but he is famously a fabulist.

No one knows the actual number and I suspect it’s higher rather than lower

BPPLEE · 2025-12-14T21:02:04-0600

eleos1954 said:
Angels were not given the capability to procreate ... if they were what stopped or is stopping them from doing it now? No such thing as a angel/human hybrid.

Genesis 6

1Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

It states here they were MEN (mankind) men/man not angels.

The offspring were men in the scripture you quoted, not the sons of God

camille70 · 2025-12-14T21:01:19-0600

Valletta said:
The Trump administration has been announcing figures, the major media does a poor job of covering it. The 62,000 plus is the latest I have heard for missing children. The 31% is from a study by Doctors without Borders.

I need more than a trust me bro from the administration that told me drug prices dropped 1000%. The Trump administration cleared a lot of children out from foster care and put them in detention centers. Many have been deported and no effort is being made to reunite them with family.

I cant take seriously concern about women or children considering all this administration is doing to inflict upon them the most harm without losing support.

bbbbbbb · 2025-12-14T20:57:25-0600

Michie said:
News to me. Lol

To me, as well, to tell the truth!

1Tonne · 2025-12-14T20:57:00-0600

timothyu said:
It seems you do. I grew up on a farm and have yet to see tares survive a fire. If scripture would have meant writhing while toasted in an oven, it would have said so. What the adversarial spirit has corrupted and remained unrepentant shall be destroyed.

Parables are illustrations, not exhaustive explanations. They are designed to highlight one main truth, not to map every detail literally. If we press every element woodenly, parables quickly break down. For example, in the parable of the lost sheep, the sheep is not literally a sinner wandering on four legs. In the parable of the sower, people are not literally soil. In the parable of the ten virgins, salvation is not obtained by buying oil at a shop.

Likewise, in the parable of the tares, the point is the certainty and finality of judgment, not how weed react in flames. To argue that because tares are burned up, therefore people must cease to exist, is to over-literalize the metaphor while ignoring Jesus’ own explanation that this judgment involves weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:42), which presupposes consciousness.

So, the parable teaches decisive judgment and exclusion from God’s kingdom, not the mechanics of what consciousness in judgment must be like. Parables clarify truth; they are not meant to replace the clearer, didactic passages that speak directly about eternal punishment.

JulieB67 · 2025-12-14T20:54:20-0600

1Tonne said:
The smoke goes up forever; the worm does not die (the soul).

Why have you added soul? The worms are a sign of total destruction. That's why Gehenna is used as an example. And Christ states fear the one that can kill both body and soul. So yes, the soul can and will die.

1Tonne said:
. It doesn’t say the wicked cease to exist;

Most of the Bible points out that the wicked will cease to exist, vanish, melt away, be no more, consumed to ashes and so on....
That doesn't happen at the earthly death but the second death at Judgment Day. That's what a fire does.

1Tonne said:
it says the former order (death, suffering) is gone for those in eternal life with God

It does not state that. It states there shall be no more death -for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

1Tonne said:
In Matthew 10:28, “destroy both soul and body in hell” uses apollumi to describe eternal ruin, not annihilation.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
From apo and the base of olethros; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Christ states both body and soul which would mean fully destroyed. He can't make that any clearer by including both.

And yes, the smoke of their torment rises forever. That does not mean they will be tormented forever.

1Tonne said:
This is a symbolic description of the final defeat of death as a power,

The last thing defeated is death, so there is no "ongoing death" that's not biblical.

1Tonne said:
about judicial finality, not annihilation.

I'll take God's word about the ultimate fate of the wicked. I've read it many times. Your suggesting that we are going by emotions and not scripture is false. I'm all about scripture. And your doctrine has to add to God's word. I like to let the scriptures speak for themselves. If God tells me there's going to be a day when the wicked will be "burned up" that will neither leave root or branch and consumed to ashes (just as our example in Sodom and Gomorrah, I'll believe that. You're hanging on to a few verses and adding to others (like John 3:16)

1Tonne said:
but live eternally, while the wicked experience eternal ruin.

Meaning according to you that both live eternally. But you can't exactly state that so you have to put a spin on it instead of letting the scriptures speak for themselves.,

durangodawood · 2025-12-14T20:52:30-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
.....C'mon, isn't it a case where sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one? Which is, it's Trump doing it, so that's why they're pretending to be all bent out of shape about it?....

Once again you are missing the point, even though I alerted you to it earlier.

This lawsuit and the ire it represents isnt about the "idea being floated". Its about Trump moving ahead with the construction process: doing the demolition and it appears even site prep, at his own sole discretion with none of the planning process or public input thats normal everywhere before ground is broken on something of this scale and consequence.

Carl Emerson · 2025-12-14T20:48:34-0600

Hi there,

Revelation 12:11
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

I am interested in comments on what is meant by "the word of their testimony"

Also - who exactly is being referred to - who is 'they' ???

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