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Robban · 2025-11-30T08:18:40-0600

Post #17 not valid but a result of my clumsy fingers. and tired eyes.

rambot · 2025-11-30T08:17:46-0600

Servus said:
The destitute and needy are in great abundance in the form of American citizens. But who cares about them? Foreign aid takes priority.

You all back clap DOGE for removing help from American poor as well.

Get outta town with thr excuses as if they actually mean something.

Barraco · 2025-11-30T08:14:29-0600

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello all this is a thread for sharing scriptures on MARK OF THE BEAST.

WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST CLICK ME?

There is a simple study from God's WORD * DANIEL AND REVELATION and history here beastsmark.com for those who may be interested in the scriptures and some more detail.

God's WORD teaches that GOD'S PEOPLE ARE IN EVERY CHURCH! Theye are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD as much as God has revealed to them. *JOHN 10:16; ACT 17:30-31.

I would like to discuss the following scriptures here in this OP.

REVELATION 14:6-12
[6], And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...............

QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION (linked to scripture studies in this thread)

Q1. WHAT IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL? v6 linked
Q2. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO FEAR GOD? v7 linked
Q3. HOW DO WE GIVE GLORY TO GOD? v7 linked
Q4. WHAT IS THE JUDGMENT ABOUT? v7 linked
Q5. WHO DOES BABYLON THE HARLOT WOMAN REPRESENT? v8; 17:1-5; 18:1-9
Q6. THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS OVER WHORSHIP v8-12
Q7. WHO IS GOD’S TRUE CHURCH IN GOD’S WORD? v12
Q8. WHAT DOES A BEAST OF KINGDOM REPRESENT IN DANIAL AND REVELATIONS?
Q9 WHAT ARE THE SYMBOLS AND MEANING OF MARK, SIGN AND SEAL?
Q10. WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST AND WHEN DO PEOPLE RECEIVE IT?
Q11. THE SEAL OF GOD HOW DO WE GET IT?
Q12. DID YOU KNOW THAT THE CIVIL SUNDAY LAWS HAVE ALREADY PASSED?
Q13. WHO IS THE ANTICHRIST, THE MAN OF SIN, THE BEAST AND 666?
Q14. WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS? 1/2
Q15. WHO DID THE EARLY REFORMERS BELIEVE THE ANTICHRIST WAS? 2/2

QUESTIONS TO THINK ABOUT

...............

FRIENDLY CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION AND SCRIPTURE ONLY PLEASE.

God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

I'm a little late to this discussion. Sorry about that. Happy Advent though!

A1. The everlasting gospel is mentioned in Revelation 1:5-6 (NASB1995). "And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."

A2. To Fear God means to respect His name and power, not confusing His compassion for weakness.

A3. We give glory to God by doing what the woman's offspring does in Revelation 12:17, "Who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

A4. The judgment is about exposing and purging sin from the holy presence of God. God's desire is to dwell among His people.

A5. Babylon is best understood using the Parable of the Wheat and Tares. She is the unrepentant in the Church that seek to love both God and the world. Within her gates are the "dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." (Revelation 22:15) She is the result of not heeding the messages to the seven churches. Instead of keeping the commandments of God, she runs after the things of this world (Ephesus). Instead of being faithful to the point of death (Smyrna), she cowers in fear because she loves this life more than God. Instead of keeping pure doctrine, she mingles with nationalist teachings so she can keep her worldly influence (Pergamum). Instead of trusting in God as her King, she runs after her other lovers, the kings of the earth that submit to Satan. You get the idea.

A6-A7. See A5.

A8. The kingdom of the beast in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 are the kingdoms of the world. 1+2+3+4=10. Therefore the ten horns represent global authority. These are the ones Babylon runs after.

A9. See A3. A mark on the forehead represents a testimony while a mark on the right hand represents deeds.

A10. The mark of the beast is the antithesis of keeping God's commandments and bearing testimony of Jesus. Believers who don't heed the seven messages will take the mark of the beast after the worldly messiah, the false messiah that seeks power over the kingdoms of this world (the four beasts/ten horns), presents himself as the world's savior, using miraculous signs to deceive people who love lawlessness (2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation 13).

A11. We get the seal of God by heeding the messages to the seven stars and loving Jesus more than anything this world can offer.

A12. Jesus is Lord of all the days of the week. He is our the rest, the second Adam, the new creation. If we make anything about us, we stop following Jesus. He went to the cross. No servant is above his master, so we go to the cross as well. If we aren't willing to follow Jesus to the cross, what good does it do to debate whether one day is holier than another? We stand convicted as hypocrites.

A13. The beast, the antichrist and son of perdition, is the ruler of the kingdoms of this world. 666 is the gematria calculation of the false messiah (656) that rules over the kingdoms of this world (10). The transliteration of the Hebrew word for mashiach (messiah) into Greek language is messias. M(40)+E(5)+S(200)+S(200)+I(10)+A(1)+S(200)=656. The kingdoms of this world, as explained in A8 are the four beasts added together: 1+2+3+4=10. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” (John 18:36) The false messiah is the one that fails to the temptations Jesus endured in the wilderness. He gives everything up for worldly power. That is how Satan gives the beast is authority and dominion. At the time the Apocalypse was received by John, the beast was Caesar.

A14-A15. The Papacy. Homey don't play that. Babylon is everywhere. She is sitting next to Zion in the pews at every church this Advent morning. The only way to tell the difference is by her fruit. She lives for this world and not the kingdom to come. The wheat and tares will both be harvested at the end of the age.

Always in His Presence · 2025-11-30T08:11:59-0600

Maria Billingsley said:
Ok, if you can name at least one prophet today who has prophesied with no error then I will consider your view.

Open a thread on the Prophet and I'll jump in. This one is about apostles

Maria Billingsley said:
Same for an apostle, anyone who has been given a specific mandate directly from Jesus Christ of Nazareth Himself.
Thanks for sharing!

You bet I have met several of them personally.

One who is mandated by Jesus of Nazareth Himself to be a voice in a country where Christianity is outlawed - Gospel meetings in the open are closed down and ministers imprisoned - jut like what Paul faced. Similar to Paul - he has seen thousands come to Christ - the simplicity of the Gospel is preached with miracles following. He has helped plant 32,000 churches in the region.

I know another who was called by Jesus of Nazareth to start a church in Nazi Germany in the middle of WW2. In the middle of the greatest prosecution and closing of churches - this Apostles was never attacked - the church grew to 180 and remained open throughout the war and thrived. In 1981 they died in the pulpit and the person who took their place grew the church to over 6,000 with 40 satellite churches in 13 nations.

Your Welcome

jonojim1337 · 2025-11-30T08:09:44-0600

Desk trauma said:
How are you arriving at trump being Jewish?

I just showed you.

Donald Trump Says US To Launch Land Action in Venezuela ‘Very Soon’

You know who else is a, virulent antisemite, by the same token? Putin. I think I’m seeing a pattern. Don’t believe everything you think.

www.christianforums.com

BCP1928 · 2025-11-30T08:09:28-0600

Servus said:
Not conquer... liberate

So that's it? Conservatives are going to justify Trump's invasion of Venezuela by painting it as a holy war?

BCP1928 · 2025-11-30T08:03:42-0600

rjs330 said:
I think it can be both. I still don't see how it shows the difference between gender and sex.

Sure, but the words mean the same thing. Gender and fashion is the same thing as sex and fashion. Thats why gender means sex and sex means gender.

See above.

Thats because sex and gender are the same thing. After all the observations you determine quickly that the person is a male or female. When you determine they are a male you have determine ed their sex AND gender at the same time.

Right. You wouldn't want to impose your gendered behavioral standards incorrectly.

FenderTL5 · 2025-11-30T08:00:59-0600

NxNW said:
Of course, invading Venezuela is about oil, not drugs. Drugs are just a pretext.

Republican says US "about to go in" to Venezuela, with oil a key reason

Representative Maria Salazar, a Florida Republican, says that regime change in Venezuela would result in a "field day" for US oil companies.

www.newsweek.com

One way or another, Donnie intends to get those mythical sub-two-dollar gas prices he's already bragged about.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-30T08:00:11-0600

stevevw said:
As I said earlier I don;t think the ancients knowledge was like academic scholarship knowledge. Or Enlightened knowledge. It was more direct experiential. They lived closer and in harmony with nature and reality. So they actually experienced what they discovered and then utilised.

All knowledge is acquired in that way. Science acquires knowledge through observation and experiment with nature. Craftsmen acquire their skills by trial and error, working directly with the natural materials. They all actually experience what they discover and utilize.

zoidar · 2025-11-30T07:52:21-0600

Brightfame52 said:
For all those Christ died His death exclusively for them acquired:

Deliverance from the wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

For He was raised for our Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So again, those for whom offences He was delivered for, they the same consequently were delivered from the wrath to come!

Most of what you have quoted is true of believers, but not true concerning all Jesus atoned for, since he atoned for everyone, not just believers.

DaisyDay · 2025-11-30T07:52:17-0600

MrMoe said:
Any behaviour we don’t like is secretly racism.

Obviously that's not true - it is often sexism.

MrMoe said:
The left never shuts up about racism. We don’t need to “stimulate conversation”.

If you say so then it must be so.

DaisyDay · 2025-11-30T07:48:59-0600

rjs330 said:
No we don't. If you are illegal and a good guy you are still subject to the same deportation law as an illegal tgat is a bad guy.

Why shouldn't you be?

Those who commit crimes get expedited deportation. If you're not familiar with the DACA then you're just speaking from ignorance.

David Lamb · 2025-11-30T07:46:45-0600

Apple Sky said:
No, but it has every to to do with the horizon (horizontal) which has to with refraction's which has been debunked.

On a flat earth, there should be no such thing as a horizon.

Freth · 2025-11-30T07:31:07-0600

Welcome to the forums!

stevevw · 2025-11-30T07:31:02-0600

I think as Christians we can know the signs. We may not know the exact time but we can know the signs like the signs of a changing season. I think thats a good analogy because its never a definite time but a all encompassing experience with many smaller signs building and aligning. Just like as a storm comes you can sense the build up in the atmosphere.

It may pass over but I think each time this is building towards the end time and more signs are accumulated. Just like the spirit is showing you signs of the right way to go in life. You may at first not be sure and then it becomes clearer.

I also think like all things in God it is never loud or dramatic or sensational. It is a quiet and gradual revelation that is embodies through time.

I think theres a couple of assumptions in that as we move forward from Christs establish His church on earth we get closer to that end. There maybe be falling away and revivals. But gradually there will be many who do not believe and Christians will be persecuted in Christs name. That implies a cultural change from a Godly one to an unGodly one.

But it may be that what is happening now with many falling away and Christianity becoming less liked that this leads to another revival rather than the end time. This may happen again and again for a long time.

But I also think that each recycling gets closer to the final battle. Almost as though the battle lines are still being drawn and you can sense theres something brewing.

Like theres a growing awareness of what it is people are fighting for. Its not just land, politics, equality but something deeper about how we should order the world. Who is God of the world and over people.

Almost like its a self fullfilling prophesy in that society has made it about good verses evil and so this will become the reality.

If this is where we are at then I am not sure there would be any backing down, its like the battle lines are being drawn and people are signing up to their sides. The dark forces have been building up and are more established, Its certainly an uncertain time and future thats doesn't seem to be creating a heaven on earth or social utopia.

Larniavc · 2025-11-30T07:30:45-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Maybe doctors hooking people on opiates have something to do with that. Maybe an invasion of a middle eastern, opiate producing country has something to do with that too.

America is dependent on having a underclass and drugs are an effective way of maintaining one. Why stop it if it benefits those at the top?

Maria Billingsley · 2025-11-30T07:29:01-0600

Emili said:
Hello! My name is Emily. I am twenty years old and I'm new the forum!

My life thus far has been defined by isolation, rejection, and mental suffering. I never felt like I could connect with anyone, and I saw how many others in the world were suffering too. It destroyed my trust in God for years and I stopped calling myself a Christian. One night when I was seventeen, I wanted to take my own life, but I had the urge to pray for the first time in years. Then the Holy Spirit told me to read my untouched New Testament. That's where my story began - at what seemed like the end.

Right now, I'm enduring another period of complete isolation and even heartbreak, but I am also more strengthened than ever in Christ. Although I'm very shy, I am also glad to be on this forum among fellow believers. Thank you for having me!

Welcome!

Maria Billingsley · 2025-11-30T07:27:38-0600

Always in His Presence said:
Correct - he never said it would end.

Still are (everyone of them)

That is where we differ I don't believe the 'first dew are no longer in service".

Correct - and each are still needed today.

Ok, if you can name at least one prophet today who has prophesied with no error then I will consider your view. Same for an apostle, anyone who has been given a specific mandate directly from Jesus Christ of Nazareth Himself.
Thanks for sharing!

Robban · 2025-11-30T07:27:20-0600

stevevw said:
Actually you got me thinking in how you said we use to seperate politics and religion from work. That was a no no becuase work was work. Keep your mind on the job and the work team are united to get the job done.

Then as you say social media came along and now everything in online and people can search and find bad stuff from years ago and shame others or get them fired if they don't like them and what they stand for.

Not because they did something wrong. But because some words or an image from years ago which was ok to do then. Is dragged back up and given new lease of life with a new spin and narrative around it to then use as a weapon against someone they don't like.

Media and social media has become a very powerful tool and because its so subjective and performative it can fool people. In some ways reality has become performative. What we see, how its narrated and framed and the meanings created that are powerful enough to change reality. To change laws, cancel and destroy people.

But thankfully and hopefully people are beginning to wake up. This whole media world has been going for some time now. So we have enough references to call on to now expose the unrealities and fake news. We are starting to see this as well and this is exposing the lies and in fact it is those who had the agendas and pushed the falsehoods who are now the ones being shamed and losing jobs ect.

Studyman · 2025-11-30T07:24:06-0600

DamianWarS said:
This also applies to how we understand "whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments..." as it applies to the context of the law and the prophets, not a unique subset. So how we understand us not breaking circumcision or not breaking the sacrifice can be applied to the entire law rather than a segregated portion of it, which is never taught.

It seems you are either omitting, or have not read about the Prophesied Priest that was to come, who ushered in a prophesied New Priesthood Covenant for the remission of Sins. It is written that the Priesthood "works" for remission of sins under the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron", which was temporary from it's conception and included various animal sacrifices and works of that Priesthood Law for remission of sins, was to pass away "after those days", replaced by the Priesthood "works" of a New Priesthood covenant, "After the Order of Melchizedek", in which the Priest offers His Own Blood, and sacrifices His Own Self, for the remission of sins. This is a pretty important part of the Gospel of Christ, I'm not sure why you don't speak of it.

In my understanding, Jesus is this New High Priest. Therefore, if a man continues in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the Old Priesthood, after this Prophesied High Priest has come, would that in itself not be "Transgressing God's Laws"? After all, Moses did say:

Diet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

As to circumcision, this world's religions are obsessed with the loose skin on a man's penis. Personally I don't think God really cared about the foreskin of the penis, as much as the fleshy heart. And HE said as much if a man is interested in His Every Word. How was a person to even know if a man was circumcised or not in the OT? Did Holy men of God walk around flashing their privates? Actually, that was forbidden by God's Law. It was always about Circumcision of the heart, as Moses teaches. And it was always considered a token between God and man.

But the "other voice" mentioned in my last reply, has used it to justify disobedience to God for centuries. I am convinced God didn't give this statute of Circumcision, so that preachers, "who profess to know God" could use it to justify the abolition of the entire Law of God.

I could be wrong, but have not Scriptures support for this popular religious philosophy of this world.

DamianWarS said:
By also using "the least" reference, Christ is also levelling our qualitative judgments of law and instead he says breaking any of them is the same as breaking all of them or the same as breaking unique subset that we deem as better or arbitrarily call moral over the rest. So whatever we remove from the equation, Christ is pulling it back in saying they are all treated qualitatively the same regardless of our superficial labels we may give them (sacrafical, ceremonial, moral, etc...). He is not dividing law, he is ensuring they are viewed as a whole, rejecting any idea we may have to separate them.

But remember, Gods Himself separated the Priesthood Law according to the "Order" in which it was established. And God has always separated Sacrificial Law, for the rest of His Laws.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness "is as iniquity and idolatry". Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

So I agree with you in part, that "WE" have no right or authority to Judge God's Law, one as greater than another. But "GOD" has the right to do so, and HE has, as is clearly evident in the Scripture above, and "many" more spoken by Him throughout the Bible.

The philosophy that a man can reject God's Laws, despise His Judgments, reject or pollute His Sabbaths, and then show up with the Blood of an innocent being, "as per the Law", and be justified is a falsehood. As Paul teaches, "No Flesh is justified by "works of the Law".

wing2000 · 2025-11-30T07:20:51-0600

Valletta said:
It's unfortunate the government of Venezuela won't stop the trafficking.

It's unfortunate that our great drug fighting president just pardoned another drug trafficking president.

JulieB67 · 2025-11-30T07:14:18-0600

Dan1988 said:
Why don't you ever consider the surrounding context of the verses you try to weaponize. If you cared to study the text you would find that the verses were spoken to the Jews who believed that the Messiah only came to save the Jews

Ok, do you really want to stay this ignorant of God's word? These are letters to Timothy, written by Paul. Timothy was in Esphesus at the time and these letters are doctrinal letters to him about the churches that were being set up.

Also, note this verse-

I Timothy 2:6 "Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

And this one-

I Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

Again, Paul and Timothy were teaching Gentiles at the time. I know there were Jews there as well but to say this was only referring to Jews is false.

If you cared to study the text you would find that the verses were spoken to the Jews

Where is this text that this was only to the Jews? And where does it say they were spoken, since this is a letter addressed to Timothy?

FredVB · 2025-11-30T07:10:03-0600

It sure looks like Trump gets away with it while having been just as involved as all others on Epstein's Island... like he would have been planning for.

jonojim1337 · 2025-11-30T07:07:51-0600

Desk trauma said:
Pity.

Good luck with your Jewish president. He said you won’t have to vote after this term. Amazing.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T07:05:57-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
I am not promoting AI, it was the first time I used it, when when I asked about the weekly Sabbath compared to the annual feasts day sabbaths and was surprised it came up what I have been studying for years in my Bible. The only way to use AI in my opinion, if using for Bible, is to say go by Bible only. I always prefer prayerful study, nothing can replace it.

I’m not saying you are promoting AI; rather, what I’m trying to do is explain to you that AI is not a reliable source. AI systems, with a few exceptions, are programmed to tell you what they think you want to hear. If you gave it any reason to think you were a Sabbatarian, for example, in terms of how you phrased your question, you would get an answer inclined to favor your beliefs.

I discovered this, fortunately without any embarrassment to myself, while attempting to use an older version of a major AI for translating liturgical texts; I made a casual remark about how a prior translation nicely contradicted a doctrine I disagreed with, and the next translation it performed was obviously manipulated to favor the opposing doctrinal position I had just implicitly endorsed. There are workarounds to this issue.

However when it comes to an issue of an opinion about the meaning of a Scriptural text, in which historical evidence is excluded, these workarounds themselves would become unreliable, in that any question posed in such a way as to produce only one definite interpretation would result in a biased output (which could be the result of random chance; GPT interactions actually use a value called “temperature” to introduce an element of randomness into their responses; this can be disabled but doing so renders the output of the AI much less useful; one could liken such a setting to a lobotomy).

With AI, the quesiton, and the conditions you set for how the question is to be answered, are all of paramount importance. Thus, to understand what happened in your case, we would need to know the exact AI you used, the prompt history and the other data I mentioned in my previous post.

I really can’t advise using AI as an authoritative source. It can help you with a lot, but one thing it can’t do is serve as an arbiter of truth.

My post doesn’t even factor in the known issue of hallucinations, or the tendency of chatGPT and other AIs to sometimes incorrectly assume the user desires role-playing behavior, when referring to an object not in immediate memory.

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