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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Although I don't believe this apparently scientists believe life formed on its own
- By stevevw
- Physical & Life Sciences
- 70 Replies
This is a false equivelance. Your assuming its the exact same as our state now. It will not be. If it was then we will still be in a fallen state. The fact that we never get sick, suffer or die is fact its not the same. So stop making false comparisons.
But this is not the only way in which early Christians understood the Mind and Body divide. They clearly understood that this physical world was different to the spirit. That the physical world was different to their spiritual knowledge and selves.
But the biblical account demands belief in supernatural ideas. This is when the material atheists or anyone who uses science to beat down God or the bibles stories as unreal and make believe. Theres no difference.
Its still a material paradigm claiming an epistemic and ontological truth by demanding we show evidence. Otherwise its all rubbish. That is the very aim of skeptics when they come onto Christian forums lol. To make the delusion believers enlightened so they can get over their delusion of God and creationism lol.
But its not a misrepresentation of how some use science and naturalism to defeat those who believe in Gods creation. I guarentee skeptics are coming to show how the science is superior and shows that God is not needed for creating life. Thats the who idea on threads like this lol.
Its philosophical in nature and not a misrepresentation. It is exactly highlighting that when it comes down to argueing the case its a matter of belief and not science.
If you have no idea about what I am talking about then I suggest you do some research because this is actually fairly well known within the philosophy of science. Ever heard of Kuhn. Surely you must have.
Naturalism and Science
Naturalism and Science – Metanexus
metanexus.net
Thomas Kuhn's concept of paradigms, introduced in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, revolutionized the philosophy of science by proposing that scientific progress isn't linear but occurs through revolutionary "paradigm shifts," where an established worldview (paradigm) is replaced by a new one, challenging the idea of pure objectivity and highlighting the community's role in defining scientific truth.
Kuhn: paradigms and revolutions in scientific development | IBSA Foundation
In “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions”, Kuhn analyzes the history of science and its various implications in all areas of research.
www.ibsafoundation.org
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath
- By Hentenza
- Sabbath and The Law
- 1055 Replies
You don’t get it do you?
“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
Mark 2:27-28 NASB2020
Mark 2:27-28 (NASB2020) - Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath wa | YouVersion
Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.”
bible.com
The sabbath is made for man, Jesus is a man, now Jesus, as both God and man (the Son of man), is Lord of the sabbath. Jesus could not have been Lord of the sabbath until He became man and fulfilled the law.
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Christmas and Legalism
- By Robban
- The Kitchen Sink
- 4 Replies
Thank you for your reply Robban. However what if being pressurized to participate in things they don't want to is making some people unhappy? God Bless
Well, that is a new one on me
.I have spent Christmas in different countries and in the Atlantic and never noticed anyone moping over it.
Paid time off, working? Double pay, whatever could go wrong, But each to their own.
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath
- By Hentenza
- Sabbath and The Law
- 1055 Replies
And yet all of the “evidence@ you posted so far show that the sabbath is celebrated on Sunday by the churches.
I’ve been making one here for quite some time. Tell me, can you post a verse where the sabbath was kept before Moses? Can you show a post resurrection verse that teaches that the church has to keep the sabbath? Can you post a verse that shows that the law was given to the gentiles collectively?
No. Your church is the legalist church that requires works of the law for salvation. Can you be saved if you don’t keep the sabbath?
How? Your “evidence” is no evidence at all. You thought that you had an aha moment but you did not. The confessions that you posted said that the Christian is not under the law and the sabbath is on Sunday. Can you prove otherwise?
But your church and you add works to the salvation formula. What do you think Paul means when he states:
“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1-4 NASB2020
Romans 8:1-4 (NASB2020) - Therefore there is now no condemnat | YouVersion
Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law c
bible.com
Is the law strong? Does the law benefit us? Do we walk according to the law or according to the Spirit?
This is again a Strawman. I have never rejected God’s commandments. You continue to misrepresent my argument. Here let me explain it one more time. The Ten Commandments were repeated into Jesus two commandments except for the 4th commandments which Jesus fulfilled by becoming the Lord of the sabbath and our Christian rest. There, can you stop misrepresenting my argument?
But we don’t agree. You and your church teach a faith plus works of the law salvation because you and your church believe that sabbath keeping is required for salvation. As long as you believe that we will never agree.
The confessions do not say what you claim. I even posted the parts related to the sabbath but you ignored them. You can’t just force something to say what you want,
It isn’t. Nothing in Heb 7 that stated ad such. Exodus 20 relates to the law given to Israel not to the church.
Jesus became Lord of the Sabbath. Scriptures is clear about that, is it not?
Yes seriously. Go back and read your posts.
And yet God did not give the 4th commandment to Abraham. Why is that?
Is it now? Why do t you post it. While you are at it why don’t you post a verse that shows that the sabbath was kept before Moses? How about a verse that shows that the law was given to the gentiles collectively?
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Ilhan Omar blasted over resurfaced comments on Somali influence in the US as Elon Musk suggests she committed treason
- By stevevw
- American Politics
- 24 Replies
For all the complaints I don't see the US in some dictatorship. Some of the ideas like anti abortion and Trans is not Project 25. Especially Trans ideology as this was dividing society and denying long held womens rights. BUt nothing bad is happening. Yet we had actual bad stuff happen under Biden and no one is complaining about that.
Ok well I see differering opinion on thisThe democratic process was not bypassed to promote Harris. The DNC followed their policies to elect someone at the last minute. The DNC electors had people who submitted their intent to run with the required signatures and they were voted on. Not everyone voted for Harris via a virtual roll call. She was also not the only one with delegates, but the others did not have enough to win.
People were expecting a 50 state primary all over again. That's not what happens. There was also not time for it as deadlines had passed in all the states and my state of Ohio was threatening not to have the dem candidate on the ballot at all if not submitted by a certain date. They were unwilling to provide exceptions granted to candidates in the past, including GOP candidates.
See Adoption of early virtual nomination vote here.
2024 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The GOP would have had to do something similar had they lost their nominee at the last minute.
Democratic Party’s choice of Harris was undemocratic − and the latest evidence of party leaders distrusting party voters
Democratic Party’s choice of Harris was undemocratic − and the latest evidence of party leaders distrusting party voters
Handing VP Kamala Harris the Democratic presidential nomination without having her compete in primaries is a throwback to less democratic ways of picking nominees, a political scientist says.
theconversation.com
But there would not have been a rush if the had admitted Bidens health instead of gas lighting the nation. Thats was all part of the undemocratic way in which they operated.
No but they need to become Americans and part of that culture and not be dividing the nation with anti western and American ideas. The current trend of the Left is towards socialism and cultural Marxism. The ideas and policies are clear.
Yes thats how it has always been. But not now. We never had such instablity as now with all the culture wars. THis was brought on by radical Left ideas of white America verses the other with all the language and narratives pushed. This is now admitted fact.
Nevermind project 25. The reality of the mess Left by the last administration is clear and needs to be corrected. Thats not any deviate plan but a reaction (perhaps overly so in some cases) to bad policies and radical ideology that has destroying the US.
Theres a massive difference between regulated immigration that is integrated and flooding a nation with an open border and unvetted illegals who are not causing economic and social chaos. That was actively pushed as part of policiy.
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Christmas and Legalism
- By Robban
- The Kitchen Sink
- 4 Replies
Hello!
I was talking with a lady who has recently lost her husband, she reports being under intense peer pressure, which she thought was a form of legalism, to do silly stuff she doesn't want to do. Specifically regarding trees/decorations/turkeys and the like. She said she hates this time of year, wishes it was over and that people would stop pressurizing her. I agreed with her, at this time of year there is pressure to do things you don't want to do from other Christians. Maybe well meaning people, sometimes maybe trying to make conversation, but I find it rather wearing. Pressure and competition, I detect a lot of people are trying doing this stuff as a form of oneupmanship. Like the guy who needs a bigger tree and more glowing gnomes and Odins in their garden than the person next door.
Leaving aside the possible pagan origins of much of this stuff is it Biblical to pressure people to do something they don't want to do? There's no biblical command telling us to put up a 'Christmas Tree', or to take a present from a man dressed as Santa aka Odin at a church party, or to sings songs about flying deer. Or forcing someone to wear a Santa hat or an Elf hat when they don't want to (yes, in a previous year I was forced to wear an elf hat to participate as a helper at a church event). Why then are people pressured into doing this if they don't want to? Isn't it a form of legalism? Being forced to partake in possible Paganism in Church? I detect churches are more likely to have a Santa and a tree than a nativity scene.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery (Galatians 5:1).
I have been told that's it's a form of legalism to tell people not to engage in certain activities, so why then isn't it legalism to compel people to engage in those activities?
I have been told that it would be legalism to acknowledge various Old Testament Biblical Feasts or to encourage others to do so. Why then isn't it Legalism to compel others to revere a flying fat all knowing midget from the North pole?
For those who don't think churches could revere demons or compel others to do so, there's 'Tuesday' for example. A day of the week named to honour a pagan god of war. Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are the same. Living in a pagan world aren't we meant to be aware of the devil's schemes, rather then going along with anything and everything, afterall Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
God Bless All
Chanukah 2025 begins Sunday evening Dec 14.
I am so tired and weary I have fallen asleep at least three times today,
so there will be no candle lighting for me, in case I fall asleep.
Chanukah is a celebration of the miracle where one jar of oil enough for one day, lasted eight days.
As for Christmas time, it is also a time of lights across the road from me the
council have put up a giant Christmas tree full of lights.
It breaks up the darkness.
If it makes people happy, why not?
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