rambot said:

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

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I definitely don't think that independents are unbiased, if that is what you are asking. They have their own life experiences which have contributed to their viewpoint, just like everyone else. And I think that comes with a tendency to lean one way or another on certain things.

I considered myself to be a conservative/Republican until Trumpism became a thing, and now consider myself to be an independent. I still have my leanings on certain issues, but I like to think that I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that as much as possible. But again, that's not to say that I don't have my personal leanings. Everyone does.

But... with all that being said - hasn't the Independent voting bloc swung in both directions during the last few presidential elections? I tried digging up some numbers, but was not able to easily find any. If they have voted in both directions, that would lend some credibility to the non-partisan claims.

sovereigngrace said:

I do not typically hit outside links, because I cannot engage with them. I normally find posters do that when they cannot effectively outline in their own words what they believe.

What is your theological position?

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These are by no means all of the prophecies in the Old Testament that use the exact same illustrations the New Testament does to prophesy about Old or New Testament events of the coming or day of the Lord. There are so many of these events that use these illustrations in the Bible's prophecy that they could almost be looked at as idiomatic to the language of the Bible's prophets and the Holy Spirit that inspired them. Now we'll jump to the different prophecies about the coming of the Lord to nations, churches and empires that had not yet come to pass yet in the New Testaments prophecy. Already listed, Matthew 24 starts like this: 1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, See not all these things? Truly I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age? Those that asked that question using that phrase had this prophecy in mind. A prophecy about when the messiah would come, (as a baby in a manger.) And when he does. the city of Jerusalem would be destroyed by a Roman prince. Titus. Turns out the 70 weeks were an illustration of 490 years. Jesus was crucified in the middle of the last 7 years. His apostles confirmed the covenant to Israel for the remainder of the seven years. Then the political class drove most of the believers out of Judea. That was followed by the destruction of the city and sanctuary in that very generation. Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolation's are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate​

Apparently people were already wrestling with the erroneous idea of a second advent of the the Lord. So John in his gospel saw fit to correct that idea in this passage. John was the only apostle to live to see the coming of the Lord at the end of the Old Covenant age. John 21: 21. Peter seeing him said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? 22. Jesus answers him, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? Follow me. 23. Then this saying abroad went out among the brothers, that this disciple [John] should not die: [they were thinking rapture] yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?​

The other prophesied episodes of the coming of the Lord were to six of the seven churches in Revelation 2-3. To judge, oversee calamity, fulfill promise and prophecy. Very doubtful that was one event but rather six different events. The last remaining one is the coming of the Lord in Revelation 19 in the final judgment of the Roman Empire at its end in 1453 AD. The promise and prophecy to now begin to be fulfilled by his coming then, is the beginning of the promised age of billions coming to Christ and a growing free world pioneered by Christians for his creation to live in. In that chapter the Lord is illustrated as coming with all his saints, the armies of heaven. What that illustrates is the work, the labors, the sufferings of all the saints that went before, especially in the writing and preserving of his written Word would now begin to bear its fruit in the world. Again, many of those prophecies about this promised age, the ones the Lord really wants us to pay attention to, are in the picture at the beginning of this article. Not a supernatural utopia but a free world that has to be won by winning souls, influencing populations and defeating mankind's oppressors. Exactly the way it has been happening now for 500 years. So; When the angels said this: Acts 1:11 .... You men of Galilee, why stand gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven. They were not talking about a second advent but simply articulating the doctrine of the coming of the Lord and that this man Jesus, who is, who was and is to come- is Jehovah the Word. The one who will come again, (many times) to judge the world, oversee calamity, fulfill promise and prophecy just like he has been doing since the book of Genesis. It is just that now he does this as the risen Messiah, the descendant of Abraham and David. the inheritor of the world.​

Now to drive this home by putting it into a more modern context, because the Lord is still physically\ literally coming down to earth to do what he has always done. You might just never hear a prophecy of his coming today and if you do, if it is real, it will not be about a second advent, even if the people prophesying and hearing it think it is. Here is a great example of the way past generations of Christians looked at the subject. Generations that were were far more educated in God's Word than today's Bible illiterate, public school educated, pop culture Christians. This is the theme song of the America's Civil War about the coming of the Lord; to judge the oppressors and fulfill promise and prophecy of the end of legal slavery, that was to follow everywhere despotic human government is overthrown. Psalm 72: 4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.​

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord: He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword: His truth is marching on.
(Chorus) Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps, They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps; I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps: His day is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel: "As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal; Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel, Since God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat; He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat: Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet! Our God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea, With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me: As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, While God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave, He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave, So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave, Our God is marching on.
Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Glory, glory, hallelujah! Our God is marching on.​

I am really struggling right now. It is sad. I think it's supposed to be bad. Being saved is no fun.

sovereigngrace said:

I do not typically hit outside links, because I cannot engage with them. I normally find posters do that when they cannot effectively outline in their own words what they believe.

What is your theological position?

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Those are my words. but for you. I'll copy and paste them. Doubt thy will fit though.

The Bible has dozens of examples of the Lord physically and literally came down to earth on certain days to administer judgment, oversee calamity and fulfill promise and prophecy. These days of the Lord where he physically and literally comes down to the planet is where the Bible's doctrine of the coming of the Lord comes hails from. What does not exist in the Bible is the phrase "the second coming." Unlike the phrase "the Trinity" that is also not in the Bible but that at least goes along with what the Bibles teaches. The idea of a "second" coming or advent changes the Bibles teaching on the matter and renders the Bible's prophecy incomprehensible. Which by the way is design of the phrase. To turn peoples eyes away from the supernatural clarity of the Bible's prophecy and turn those eyes to something the Bible does not prophesy at all. Apocalyptic end of the world scenarios. Here are just a few of the examples.​

Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men were building. 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people are one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. In that scenario of the coming the Lord he judged the wicked's plans of immediately bringing the new worlds entire population under subjection to a despotic, idolatrous empire. So you can see the judgment and the promised salvation. ​

Genesis 18:1. And Jehovah appeared to him [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;..... 17. And Jehovah said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;...... 20. And Jehovah said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21. I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come to me; and if not, I will know. Well known story. Judgment or natural calamity falls upon Sodom and Gomorrah and Lord offered to save all of lots extended family and friends but only Lot and his two daughters took up the offer. ​

Exodus 3: 7 And the Jehovah said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians. Same thing here. The coming of the Lord to judge the world and fulfill promise and prophecy about his people and plan in the earth. You can pretty much see the doctrine of the coming of the Lord established in just the first two books of the Bible. Although there are more instances in these two books. We'll skip over to the prophets where you will same the illustrative language used in the New Testament prophecy used in the Old Testament about things the Bible and history have recorded as fulfilled.​

This is Isaiah's prophecy of the destruction of Babylon at the hands of the Mead's. Isaiah 13:1 1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.......6 Howl you; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. ...... 9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man takes up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined to them shall fall by the sword. 16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. 19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.​

This prophecy below is part of a series of prophecies from Isaiah about the nations Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon will conquer. Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.....4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the LORD of hosts​

Notice how these two prophecies use the exact same illustrative language in the New testament to prophesy the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD? Matthew 24:29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mark 13:24. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25. And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Luke 21:25. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26. Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Revelations account of the same event- Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, look, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?​

This is a prophecy of the coming of the Lord in the destruction of the ten tribes of Israel at the hands of Assyria. Micah 1:2 Hear, all you people; listen, O earth, and all that therein is: and let the Lord GOD be witness against you, the LORD from his holy temple. 3 For, behold, the LORD comes forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread on the high places of the earth. 4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire,.....6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, and as plantings of a vineyard... Now look at Peters use of the exact same illustrations. He quotes a number prophecies from the past of the coming of the Lord before he gets to exhorting the flock about the future using the exact same illustrative language of the coming of the Lord to past nations and empires. Here though, he is prophesying about the end of despotism their world lived under. You can see the chapters of prophecy in the picture at the beginning of this article to see exactly what world or age Peter is referring to. It is not a supernatural utopia with Jesus ruling a physical kingdom on earth but a world, unlike theirs, where righteousness dwells. 2 Peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.​

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Two movies have been made about the life of Corrie ten Boom:

• The Hiding Place (1975) (this one is available on Amazon Prime in many countries)
• The Hiding Place (2023)

Her faith and forgiveness are inspiring ..

Valletta said:

As word spread about the operation unfolding on Rose Ave., neighbors and activists calling themselves "constitutional observers" streamed in, holding phones in the air to videotape what was unfolding. Tensions rose as more and more demonstrators arrived, yelling at federal agents lined up on the sidewalk in front of the home. An agent could be heard speaking through a bullhorn: "You are too close... if you do not comply, we will use force."
Around 11:15 a.m., things came to a head, with officers using cans to spray the growing crowd. Prepared after last week's raid on Bro-Tex LLC., community members were equipped to treat those who had been targeted with chemical irritants.

Federal agents launch another operation in St. Paul

According to a statement from DHS, ICE agents were arresting one person, who they say was from Honduras and in the country illegally.

www.kare11.com

They should get some jail time for interfering with law enforcement. Otherwise it will just continue.

Click to expand...

Maybe this is all a bit overboard just to arrest a single person. Aren’t you all about cutting waste and improving government efficiency? This is horribly inefficient and wasteful and not to mention, cruel to treat normal Americans like they’re some enemy force.

Vambram said:

I agree with Keith Gross and Mike Davis.

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Too bad for Gross and Davis they literally passed a law, signed by Bush in 2007 that makes their arguments irrelevant.

Say it aint so said:

Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates.
If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?

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"Gender affirming care" (According to Medicare data) increases suicide stats by double compared to "cis gender" population.
Another stat I saw cited that almost 20% of 10 year post op transgender individuals commit suicide. (40% attempt) I think that may be the HIGHEST suicide rate in any population. (At last it's the highest stat I've ever seen.)

Suicide rates general populations:
(Veterans = 14%)
(Police = .021%)
(Incarcerated in state or federal prisons = 8%)

Andrewn said:

Do you believe those in the spirit prison have a chance to repent and go to paradise?

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Sorry, I was at work but Christ taught them the gospel so it stands to reason they were given a chance after Christ died and rose again. For what other reason would he preach the good news to them? What are your beliefs? I know many believe in soul sleep but I don't see why Christ would even mention a gulf that divides them. Yes, it's a parable but I believe the gulf is based in reality.

mark46 said:

So, you have two views and you prefer responding only to those who identify as person using their own individual opinions. Not me.

POSITION PNE
The position of a poster here [probably greatly influenced by their political party outlook].

POSITION TWO
The stated AI position of Google where Google has researched hundreds of sites and composed a composite response.
=======
I have very. very little reason to believe that poster presenting his or her own opinion has an opinion more likely to be complete and correct than the consolidated AI response.

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I don’t really care what ai knows. I care what people think. That’s why I come to discussion boards. AI doesn’t have any better insight into your opinion than I can try to guess on my own.

essentialsaltes said:

Snort. The Claim on the table was

"Fuentes broadcasts his flaws publicly, and his messages are amplified by those on the right."

From your source:

Nick Fuentes, an online personality known for his racist and antisemitic views, has elicited renewed interest from national news publications and political figures in recent months, exemplified by a series of his appearances on podcasts popular with right-wing audiences

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Yes, Fuentes has appeared on other people's podcasts, which are popular. But
It says nothing about Fuentes having an increased fan base of his own.

It also says he has "elicited renewed interest from "national news publications" and "political figures"... Those national news publications that he has elicited interest from, appear to be primarily left-wing news, like BBC, who are actually condemning him.

If you agree with that, and that's all you've been claiming this whole time, then I suppose we agree. And I admit I misunderstood who Mike Johnson was referring to when he said "he" has a lot of listeners - he was actually referring to Carlson, which is true.

GoldenBoy89 said:

I just don’t like being replied to with just an AI response. If you give some of your own thoughts in a reply and use ai as a tool to back up the points you are making then that’s ok but just a straight up canned response copied and pasted from google or whatever ai source is going to be ignored by me.

I come here because I have a pretty good feeling most everyone here is a real person with actual opinions. It’s much more communal and personal here than the thousands of random people replying on social media platforms. If we start replying to each other with ai answers we kill what makes a site like this worth coming to.

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So, you have two views and you prefer responding only to those who identify as person using their own individual opinions. Not me.

POSITION PNE
The position of a poster here [probably greatly influenced by their political party outlook].

POSITION TWO
The stated AI position of Google where Google has researched hundreds of sites and composed a composite response.
=======
I have very. very little reason to believe that poster presenting his or her own opinion has an opinion more likely to be complete and correct than the consolidated AI response.

rjs330 said:

Empathy is what leads schools to allow gender clinics inside of schools. Empathy is what causes people to want to support affirmative care for kids.

Empathy is what can cause people to allow the homeless or drug addicts to do drugs on the streets creating unsafe environments for communities.

Empathy in and of itself is good. We need empathy. But we need to be wise with it and make sure our empathy is not allowing actions that are harmful to the person or society.

Click to expand...

Now suppose the implementation of those gender affirming actions reduce suicide rates.
If it does, is there more empathic value in that or just get rid of them regardless?

Larniavc said:

What am I look for exactly? I had a brief look but didn’t find anything beyond the normal surgery impacts.

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Here's a (couple of) studies to start with: (There's all kinds of information in the Medicare data base!)

essentialsaltes said:

Trump Canceling GDP Report Comes Under Scrutiny​

The U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis said on Monday that it has canceled the release of its advance estimate of third-quarter GDP. [And no future release date has been set.]

The department said the release was being canceled due to disruption caused by the federal government shutdown, but the announcement has sparked criticism and speculation that the report is being held because of disappointing data.

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Thanks for keeping up on this.

Science does nothing but lie about God's creation from the globe lie to the evolution lie and whatever future lies they come up with.

probinson said:

I read what you said just fine. You said that the ACA lowered costs. It did not. You are demonstrably wrong. In fact in my case, after the ACA was passed, the rate of increase of my healthcare costs accelerated vs. how much it had increased in prior years.

You're hanging your hat on the unverifiable claim that the ACA reduced the rate of healthcare cost increase. But neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has any idea how much or how quickly the rate of increase would have been without the ACA. That is a counterfactual that literally NO ONE can know, because it didn't happen. The whole of your "lower costs" assertion rests on this unknown.

I suppose it's easier to pretend like the recipients of your message are incapable of understanding what you've written than it is to admit that you're just plain wrong.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

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Are you getting your insurance via the ACA? That is via the exchange either with or without a subsidy?

Larniavc said:

When has that ever been the case? Must be a huge waste of money to ever advertise anything ever if there is more profit in something that no one knows anything about.

Sigh.

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IP (Intellectual Property) is more precious than you realize. If a tech give you a capability nobody else has, you can sell that capability instead as a service while maintaining the use of such tech in secret. You maintain full control of your IP.

Such use eliminates competition, eliminates cheap knock-offs. You'll have far greater freedom you can set your price.

I've worked data analytics for retailers selling their own products (including big brands) most my life. Most of the unrealized sales is attributed to cheap Chinese knockoffs and you can't beat the manufacturing capacity of China. Not yet anyway. And because of competition, the profit margins are kept small. All these factors result to high sensitivity to market fluctuations which is bad. Many big retailers go bankrupt and they're not run by stupid people. Retailing is just difficult and Trump is making things even harder.

I don't possess any game-changing tech yet. But if I had, the growth projections can't ever be matched by retailing even if everything went right with retailing.

Landon Caeli said:

I'm not surprised that Tucker Carlson gave Fuentes the interview. Honestly, it's like two peas in a pod.

But as far as Mike Johnson's statement, the facts say otherwise.

Reported just days ago:
Flash Report: Claims of Nick Fuentes’ Growing Popularity Are Unsupported by Data - Open Measures

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Snort. The Claim on the table was

"Fuentes broadcasts his flaws publicly, and his messages are amplified by those on the right."

From your source:

Nick Fuentes, an online personality known for his racist and antisemitic views, has elicited renewed interest from national news publications and political figures in recent months, exemplified by a series of his appearances on podcasts popular with right-wing audiences

iluvatar5150 said:

The only people who aren't "getting" anything are you and @probinson who misread what I've said.

Click to expand...

I read what you said just fine. You said that the ACA lowered costs. It did not. You are demonstrably wrong. In fact in my case, after the ACA was passed, the rate of increase of my healthcare costs accelerated vs. how much it had increased in prior years.

You're hanging your hat on the unverifiable claim that the ACA reduced the rate of healthcare cost increase. But neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has any idea how much or how quickly the rate of increase would have been without the ACA. That is a counterfactual that literally NO ONE can know, because it didn't happen. The whole of your "lower costs" assertion rests on this unknown.

I suppose it's easier to pretend like the recipients of your message are incapable of understanding what you've written than it is to admit that you're just plain wrong.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Fascinating!