Michie said:

Can a young child truly be saved and on their way to Heaven? Can he or she be in the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth, one of those who is a genuine believer?

A Christian educator once said that the faith of a child — up to age 12 — could be called a “borrowed faith”; this faith could be borrowed from his parents or a Sunday school teacher. Then, in his early teens, the child would develop their “chosen faith,” ultimately moving on to their “owned faith.”

Now, when we think of a borrowed faith, do we also think of it as a saving faith? Not exactly, and not something you’d want to count on when you’re not totally confident.

Let’s see what Jesus had to say about children’s salvation. “At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, ‘Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?’ And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, ‘Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven’” (Matthew 18:1-4).

Okay, so the disciples have a different question than I originally posed; they want to know who’s the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus calls a little child. In case you question whether this really is a young child, the Greek word is paidión, which means “little” or “young.” So, he didn’t just call a child, he called a little child. Now remember, in that culture, a 13-year-old boy enters manhood. Young people were married at 16. So, if they are calling a child little, they mean little.

Continued below.

Can a young child become a Christian?

Can a young child truly be saved and on their way to Heaven

www.christianpost.com

Click to expand...

People can approach Jesus just like they can approach a mirror. The experience and comprehension may be very limited when you're very young, but you can still approach the mirror and appreciate what's in it.

I was raised up in the church. I've never not known who God is, and who Jesus is. It's just that my appreciation of who He is was limited by my age.

I have talked with God throughout my life, and did not really, really appreciate who God was to me until after I backslid and found out that was a very bad path. When I returned to obedience I learned to appreciate God no matter how good or bad things may be--at least things weren't bad because I had disobeyed God.

So even if we know God from very young, or even if we know Him as a full-fledge adult, we still won't fully appreciate who God is to us if we don't obey Him. We ave to be able to hear Him in our conscience. When we do so, and obey that voice, we'll know God well.

A little child can certainly know Jesus. I know I appreciated him when I was first joining a small children's gathering in our church basement Sunday morning. I felt so "grown up" being able to attend without my parents present. They sang, "Jesus loves me." And the birthday kids were able to drop pennies into a church steeple--a penny for each year of their age.

I honestly felt a very special presence at that time. But even before that I felt my conscience when I screamed bloody murder when my parents took away my blanket--I had been eating it, and I knew I was over-acting the rage.

Oompa Loompa said:

Poor poor narco terrorists drug smugglers. If only they had the same level of outrage for the kids they kill every year with their cargo.

Click to expand...

Suspected.

If found guilty, then they should be punished as the law prescribes. But just killing suspects rendered harmless and not fighting back, no trial. This is barbaric.

Freth said:

Let's look at the statements I made again.



Tradition that goes against the commandment of God, according to Jesus Matthew 15:3-6, makes the commandment of none effect. This was the specific point I was making.

I didn't say all tradition is bad.

Let's look at 2 Thessalonians 2:15, but include verse 14 for context.

The gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.​

Jesus.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

What does Paul say about the gospel in 1 Thessalonians 7:7-10?

1 Thessalonians 7:1-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.​

Paul is speaking of those who do not obey the gospel. Obedience. I was addressing tradition that specifically causes transgression of the commandments of God and makes it of none effect, as per Matthew 15:3-6. I'm calling for obedience.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification. I now understand your concern more precisely: you’re not rejecting all tradition, but specifically that which contradicts the commandments of God. That’s an important distinction.

But respectfully, here’s where I believe your argument runs into difficulty:

The Apostolic Tradition upheld by the Orthodox Church does not contradict God’s commandments—it preserves them, along with the fullness of the Gospel. As St. Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, we are to “stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.” He does not limit this to Scripture, nor does he describe “tradition” only as the written Gospel.

Later in 2 Thessalonians 3:6, he tells us to avoid those who do not walk according to the tradition they received. That warning is not addressed only to outsiders, as you suggest—it is addressed to Christians who were part of the Church. The idea that Paul’s rebuke applies only to non-believers isn’t found in the text. On the contrary, he’s warning against disorder within the Church, not simply among those who deny the Gospel outright.

This is critical: Paul sees Tradition as something living, binding, and passed down both in written and unwritten form. The Gospels themselves were written after the Church had already been proclaiming Christ for decades. The Creed, the canon of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity—these were all received and preserved by Apostolic Tradition, not discovered by private interpretation.

As for obedience: yes, it is central to the Christian life. But the question is, obedience to what? If we reject the Tradition that gave us Scripture, how can we rightly interpret it? If every believer must determine for themselves what is and is not “the Gospel,” what prevents error, schism, or distortion?

On the Sabbath, we Orthodox honor the Sabbath. We use it as a day to commemorate Christ our God reposing in the tomb after remaking Man in His image, in preparation for the celebration of His resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit on Sunday.

The specific Sabbatarian objection, that the Sabbath was changed, does not apply to the Orthodox, and historically did not apply to the Roman Catholic Church, until some ill-advised Scholastic era theological statements; but if we look at the Roman Catholic liturgical calendar, of the Tridentine Mass, it refers to Saturday as Sabbato, and I would note, I can’t fathom why your denomination objects to Roman Catholics so much, because the majority of worship services held on Saturday by Christians are Roman Catholic masses - which undermines the argument made by EGW about the Catholics having corrupted it at the timeline she specified in The Great Controversy.

Now, on the subject of obedience to Commandments, the Holy Spirit also has the right to issue Commandments, as much as Christ, who, as Adventists like to say, was the person of the Holy Trinity who inscribed the Decalogue with his finger (but the Decalogue he later summarized as “Love Thy neighbor as Thy self, and Love God with all Thy heart, mind and soul”, which corresponds to the two tablets; the tablets are indeed a typological prophecy of the Incarnation Christ our God, for the the word of God was carried in an ark, and likewise, the Incarnate Word of God was carried by our Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary prior to His glorious Nativity, which we celebrate on December 25th, except for the Armenians, who retain the ancient custom of celebrating this together with the Baptism of Christ on January 6th (in Jerusalem, where all EO and OO churches use the Julian Calendar, this results in them celebrating Christmas on the 19th of January; this also greatly helps reduce overcrowding at the holy sites, so I am thankful the Armenian church retained, as was its perogative, the older liturgical custom). However, the fourth century practice, adopted in response to the Arian heresy, was simply to add nine months to the date of Christ’s conception, which was already celebrated on March 25th, since, it is a tradition of the Church, and one that in no respect contradicts any commandment, that Christ was conceived on the same day that would have been the 14th of Nissan according to the Jewish calendar in use in 33 AD (which was changed after the destruction of the Temple, which is why the church discontinued Quartodecimianism at the Council of Nicaea, but I digress).

At any rate, insofar as the Holy Spirit, as God, coequal to the Son and the Father, can issue Commandments, and insofar as the Holy Spirit speaks through the inspired writings of the Holy Prophets and those Apostles, in the canonical 27 books that He guided the Church into adopting as our New Testament, the instruction by St. Paul to adhere to Holy Tradition can be regarded as a commandment in and of itself. Thus, insofar as Tradition includes worship on the First Day in celebration of the Resurrection as well as the Seventh, since Christ our True God commanded that we pray without ceasing (and we know the Apostles worshipped on the first day - since all 12 of them, and 200 other followers of Christ, were in the Upper Room of the house of St. Mark the Evangelist at the Third Hour, approximately 9 AM, on Sunday - which also corresponds to one of the three daily times of Jewish prayer, since Jews historically prayed three times a day since the time of St. Nehemiah the Prophet and St. Ezra the Priest, and this formed the basis for Christian daily prayer, specifically, Matins, Vespers and Compline - Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and Night Prayer), we should worship on Sunday as well as Saturday, and the Sabbath commandment is in no respect violated.

What is more, the Orthodox uphold the Sabbath commandment correctly, by on that day remembering that Christ, God Incarnate, after His passion, after remaking fallen Man in HIs image, as He made us in His Image in Genesis 1 (itself a text both literal and prophetic of His passion and resurrection) rested - this time in a tomb, and thus in our Sabbath liturgies we commemorate Christ’s repose, and additionally, all of the saints in Heaven, and also pray for the salvation of our departed loved ones, and also commemorate the blessed Virgin Mary, who points us to Christ, for there is a direct typological parallel between Christ’s repose in the Tomb, in which He who created the universe and is uncircumscribable was contained in the Holy Sepulchre, and His time in the blessed immaculate Womb of the Theotokos.

Thus, I propose if one really cares about adherence to the ten commandments, and all other commandments of God, whether delivered by HIm orally, or by tracing His finger, or through the mouths of HIs Apostles, and only following traditions that do not contradict any commandment (for example, Christ’s commandment that we partake of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist, and that we should be Baptized), one should associate themselves with a traditional liturgical church like the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Churches and the other traditional liturgical churches which have a similar understanding of things, such as the Roman Catholic Church, the traditional Anglicans, and Confessional Lutherans, and the Assyrian Church of the East.

I would also encourage Sabbatarians to add worship services on Sunday to commemorate the Resurrection of Christ our God, in addition to daily prayer services on every other day of the week; which is the common practice of all churches (the highest priority days, however, if it comes down to it, are Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday; the liturgical day begins at sunset, as was the case in Judaism, so for example, Friday can be observed on Thursday evening, Saturday on Friday evening, Sunday on Saturday evening, and Wednesday on Tuesday evening - the importance of Wednesday is because it was on that day that Judas arranged to hand over our Lord, thus betraying Him. For this reason, Wednesday and Friday are the traditional days of fasting, with Saturday and Sunday the traditional feast days; indeed, John Wesley desired all Methodists to fast on Wednesday and Friday, reviving the Patristic custom that had fallen out of use in the West, with fasting limited to Fridays in Lent - and additionally Wesley, who was heavily influenced by Orthodox theology, desired that Methodist churches have prayer services that specifically included the Great Litany, a beautiful Anglican liturgy of supplicatory prayer, on those days, which would have been most appropriate.

The election. Biden beat Trump convincingly. Yes, Trump whined and threw tantrums, even incited an insurrection to stop the certification of the election. But Biden beat him.

And imagine the howls of MAGA if Joe Biden had kept falling asleep in meetings as Trump has. Dozy Don is clearly not as sharp as Biden was during his presidency.

Login to view embedded media
Login to view embedded media
Executive summary
Video and photos from a Dec. 2, 2025 White House Cabinet meeting show President Donald Trump with his eyes closed several times and at least once fully closed while officials spoke; multiple outlets describe him as “fighting sleep” or “appearing to doze,” while the White House press secretary said he was “listening attentively and running the entire” meeting [1] [2]. News organizations counted repeated moments of drooping or closed eyes during the roughly three‑hour meeting; some outlets quantified the behavior (for example, reporting “nearly six minutes” of eyes shut in aggregate) while others simply described multiple episodes [3] [4].

Obviously, Donald Trump has declined significantly since Joe Biden beat him in a presidential election. But it was obvious even before the last election...

Trump was brutally mocked as “Dozy Don” by California Gov. Gavin Newsom in October after he appeared to drift off at an event discussing the threat his administration said is posed by Antifa activists, in revenge for the president’s regular jibes against “Sleepy Joe” throughout his presidency.

Trump previously appeared to drift off during his criminal trial in Manhattan in May 2024 when the strain of fighting four indictments while campaigning for the White House seemed to get the better of him.

Studyman said:

This is true. The Law defines sin. Where there is no Law, there is no sin. There can't be sin, because as you said, the LAW points out sin.

Click to expand...

Since the begining there has always been law. That does not mean that the Sinai Covenant reached back to the beginning, ant that doesn't mean that mankind today is subject to all of the previous laws. Jesus gave mankind a New and better Covenant. Every human being is under the new covenant because Jesus fulfilled the old one. The question I have for you who claims to be under the Law, how do you go about picking some laws and culling others? in other words who has given you permission to avoid parts of the all the covenants God has ever placed on

Studyman said:

So Bob, as you have pointed out, there is no transgression of God's Law, without God's Law. We know Adam sinned, therefore there was law. Cain was warned about Sin, therefore there was LAW.

Click to expand...

Not that that is wrong I never pointed it out. There is no need to. Did Adam have a law prohibiting his son for taking his daughter. Did Abraham have a law pr0hibiting him having concubines? So, as you should plainly see, laws have changed throughout history.

You keep telling us we have been duped believing lies that have existed for centuries. The lies I have been told have been coming from those who will not recognize that we are not subject to the Sinai Covenant.

Studyman said:

Gen. 4: 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Gen. 18: 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

And we know Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes.

Click to expand...

Is that so?? Like I pointed out Abe had concubines, and had two wives Deut 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Why would Abe observe a day that he had no part? God didn't lead Abe out of Egypt.

Studyman said:

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So what Law is Paul speaking to here?

Click to expand...

Certainly not all the laws He imposed on Israel. We know that for a fact and I don't see how you could possibly twist scripture to prove differently.

Studyman said:

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

What Law was "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham, that the Pharisees were still promoting? This "LAW" was ADDED "Because of Transgressions (SIN)"? Transgressions of what? That would be transgressions of the Commandments, Statutes and Laws of God, Yes? If not, then what?

Click to expand...

Ritual laws that pertained only to Israel. Laws pertaining to morality have always existed. Pigs were one of the first domesticated animals and I am sure they were not used to make footballs.. Then came the Sinai Covenant and the pigs in Israel were not used for food. Did the remainder oof the World stop eating them?

Studyman said:

You and I have been taught lies about this chapter, by this world's religious system since we were kids. And our parents, and their parents, taught the same lie, just as the Jews in Jesus Time had been told lies about God for centuries.

I would have you consider that the "LAW" given "Because of Sin", is not God's definition of sin. That makes no sense and in frankly absurd. All men have sinned, are are in need of atonement. In the Bible, this atonement was achieved through a "Priesthood". In Moses Time, God made a Priesthood Covenant with Levi, to provide for the remission of sins. It was called the "Levitical Priesthood" which was after "The Order of Aaron" of the Tribe of Levi. Obviously this LAW wasn't in effect or given in Abraham's Time because Levi was not even born until centuries after Abraham was dead. This Priesthood Law/Covenant was only Temporary, according to the Law and Prophets, because there was a Prophesied Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek", that was to come "After those days". And just like the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron", this NEW Priesthood was also ADDED "Because of Transgressions", which is the purpose of the Priesthood LAW in the first place. Paul said the LAW he is speaking to, was ADDED " till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; Gen. 26: 4 "and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;"

Click to expand...

And when a change in the priesthood happens there are changes in the law.
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the l

Studyman said:

I believe this "SEED" is the Jesus "of the Bible.

Click to expand...

Is that something new? That is what I was taught and as far as I know most of Christianity believes that, so where is the lie you say we are living under?

Studyman said:

But the mainstream preachers of the world in that time, the Pharisees, didn't believe Jesus was that SEED. This is undeniable Biblical Fact. They were still promoting the Old Priesthood LAW for the remission of sins. A LAW Abraham wasn't under. Paul is explaining that the LAW they were promoting, was Prophesied to end at the arrival of the Prophesied Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek", "Till the SEED should come".

Click to expand...

The "old Priesthood Law" you are referring is was the Sinai Covenant.

Studyman said:

And this Priesthood was a school master that was to LEAD those men to Christ, as it did for Zacharias, David, Simeon, Anna, Shadrack, Daniel, even Abraham saw the Day of the Prophesied Messiah. But the Pharisees and their fathers, according to the Holy Scriptures, corrupted the Priesthood and therefore were not led to Christ, as it is written.

Click to expand...

No, it was the Law that was the schoolmaster not some priesthood as you have implied. Be careful what you are trying to teach.

Studyman said:

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye "have not" kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

In the past you have just blown off these Holy Words of the God inspired Holy Scriptures. I'm hoping maybe this time, you or others reading along, can see the truth of Gal. 3, and the LAW that was ADDED that the Pharisees were still promoting to the Galatians, even though the Promised Seed had come.

Click to expand...

What does all you have written have to do with where we stand today? Today we are under the New and Better Covenant Jesus ordained at Calvary, What the priesthood did or didn't do has nothing to do how we can come directly before Jesus and get remission for breaking His Law of Love, the command He gave all mankind to live by.

rjs330 said:

Yeah that's the problem. In Europe they are finding that out almost too late.

Click to expand...

I'm not in Europe. Multiple reports have detailed that Right wing extremism is the threat in the US.

Do not get me wrong, I find the extremism of Islam troubling, but it is not currently the overriding worry.

joechristianwarrior said:

Hi everyone,

I’ve been working on a video series called Jesus & Social Justice — exploring how the call to follow Christ connects with caring for the poor, the oppressed, and the marginalized.

In Part 4, I dig into what it really means to follow Jesus — not just in words, but in how we live out His compassion and justice in today’s world.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this topic. How do you personally see the balance between preaching the Gospel and addressing injustice?

Here’s the link if you’d like to watch:
Login to view embedded media
Grace and peace,
✝️

Click to expand...

You mean "social justice as you see it." Is it better to achieve your version of social justice for a group of people or present the gospel of eternal life to them that they might live forever?