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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

B flat B♭

Yeah that’s probably a great idea if he is hit by space junk and starts drifting away.
It worked, but they switched over to robotic arms. We boomers used to take chances. I didn't wear a helmet riding my bicycle, swam in unmonitored ponds, climbed trees, had chemistry sets that started fires, investigated vacant houses, played violent games, and lots of other fun things. The astronauts had a job to do and they did it.
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Judge dismisses James Comey and Letitia James cases, finding prosecutor's appointment invalid

Intelligent attys don't make the same 'mistake' on several applications, for decades, when checking the box that describes what a property WILL BE used for.

If you watch me buy 5 homes in 23yrs where you then ask me each time, "are you using the property for generating revenue/commercial purposes or for your private residence you'll live in?" And each time I tell you, "its my private residence to live in", then... I should not get stand there after 30yrs, get caught, and then say, "OH, I thought each time I had told you how I really meant to say that I'd be using the homes to rent out to tenants. I'm sorry if I forgot to tell you that."

I am in awe, at how much a person has to love dishonesty, in order to support liberal-democrat leaders.
Where are you getting five homes from? Is there more than one property or mortgage with claims of misconduct?
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What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

Acts 8: 14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 8 seems to be saying the Samaritans were immersed water baptized, but had not received the outwardly visible miraculous powers of the Spirit until the Apostles laid hands on them, so water baptism was around separate from Holy Spirit baptism. This is also seen in Acts 19: 4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

Acts 19:6 is not a continuation of Acts 19:5 with some translators putting an period or a conjunction between them showing separation. Acts 19:6 is no a description of the baptism, but you might want further study on this.

Acts 10: 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 11: 15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Peter is water Baptizing and the Spirit seems to be Spiritually baptizing these gentiles first. Notice Peter has to go back to Pentecost to get a similar “Baptism of the Spirit” example so it was not regularly happening.

A book could be written on Christian water baptism and the Holy Spirit baptism, which seem to be two different actions.

I'll Quote Macarthur for context. on these passages in Acts. If you can give me your thoughts on this.


" the believers in Samaria who were converted under the ministry of Philip had to wait a short while to receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit, until Peter and John came up to Samaria and laid hands on the converts (Acts 8:17). In that unique transitional situation as the Church was beginning, those particular believers had to wait for the Holy Spirit, but they were not told to seek Him. The purpose for that exception was to demonstrate to the apostles, and to bring word back to the Jewish believers in general, that the same Holy Spirit baptized and filled Samaritan believers as baptized and filled Jewish believers--just a short while later Peter and a few other Jewish Christians were sent to witness to Cornelius and his household in order to be convinced that the gospel was for all men and to see that "the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also"(Acts 10:44-45). Those special transitional events did not represent the norm, as our present text makes clear, but were given to indicate to all that the body was one"....

"Why did the Samaritans (and later the Gentiles) have to wait for the apostles before receiving the Spirit? For centuries, the Samaritans and the Jews had been bitter rivals. If the Samaritans had received the Spirit independent of the Jerusalem, that rift would have been perpetuated. There could well have been two separate churches, a Jewish church and a Samaritan church. But God had designed one church, in which "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female," but "all are one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:2.)...

By delaying the Spirit's coming until Peter and John arrived, God preserved the unity of the church. The apostles needed to see for themselves, and give firsthand testimony to the Jerusalem church, that the Spirit came upon the Samaritans. The Samaritans also needed to learn that they were subject to apostolic authority. The Jewish believers and Samaritans were thus linked together in one body....

Today, believers receive the Spirit at salvation (cf.1 Cor. 12:13). There was no need for delay after Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans, and Old Testament saints were already included in the church.
(Macarthur)


Today...

"Being filled with the spirit must be distinguished from being baptized with the spirit. The apostle Paul carefully defines the baptism with the spirit as that act of Christ by which He places believers into His body (Romans 6:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27). In contrast to much errant teaching today, the New Testament nowhere commands believers to seek the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is a sovereign, single, unrepeatable act on Gods part, and is no more an experience than are its companions justification and adoption. Although some wrongly view the baptism with the Spirit as the initiation into the ranks of the spiritual elite, nothing could be further from the truth. The purpose of the baptism with the spirit is not to divide the body of Christ, but to unify it. As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, through the baptism with the Spirit "we were all baptized into one body" (1 Corinthians 12:13; cf. Galatians 3:26-27; Ephesians 4:4-6)

Unlike the baptism with the Spirit, being filled with the Spirit is an experience and should be continuous. Although filled initially on the day of Pentecost, Peter was filled again in Acts 4:8. Many of the same people filled with the Spirit in Acts 2 were filled again in Acts 4:31. Acts 6:5 describes Stephen as a man "full of faith and the Holy Spirit," yet Acts 7:55 records his being filled again. Paul was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:17 and again in Acts 13:9.

While there is no command in scripture to be baptized with the Spirit, believers are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18 ). The grammatical construction of that passage indicates believers are to be continuously being filled with the Spirit. Those who would be filled with the Spirit must first empty themselves. That involves confession of sin and dying to selfishness and self will. To be filled with the Holy Spirit is to consciously practice the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ and to have a mind saturated with the Word of God. Colossians 3:16-25 delineates the results of "letting the word of Christ richly dwell" in us. They are the same ones that result from the filling of the Spirit (Ephesians 5:19-33). As believers yield the moment by moment decisions of life to His control, they "walk by the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16). The baptism of the Spirit grants the power that the filling with the Spirit unleashes."
(Macarthur)
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Dear Pete Hegseth, I’m Grateful the Japanese Navy Spared My Grandfather’s Life

How do you know the person does not have someone close to them that overdosed or came close ( happens a good bit as well people are saved every day by Narcan, in fact at this point you can literally buy it from the drug store.
First, the poster proved in in their response. Second, call it intuition, but I believe nobody in their right mind would defend narco-terrorists if they actually had a close relative or child die from their narcotics. A reasonable person would be out for blood and justice.
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Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

You can't put increased polarization (splitting of opinions with little in the middle) and strong political bias (pushing towards one end of politics) on the same thing (higher education). Such does not compute.
If Universities are of the mindset that liberal policies are the cure for all societal ills, by and large, the polarization comes into existence by those who push back. Those who push back are then drilled even harder, to force them to understand "the right way", which causes them push back again, resulting in an increasing polarization effect.

I think that's understandable.
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Dear Pete Hegseth, I’m Grateful the Japanese Navy Spared My Grandfather’s Life

APPEARS to be being a key word there. Things are not always as they appear ( which is why we have strict laws about what happens when police are not very careful.
Well, I trust that the military did their due diligence to get "positive identification" that the vessel and it's cargo met all the criteria necessary according to the laws or armed combat to designate the vessels as legitimate enemy targets. Legally making them no different than a group of ISIS terrorists transporting weapons, money, or drugs to continue their war effort. Note that positive ID on a declared enemy is all that is necessary to use lethal force.

You say, "things are not always what they appear," I agree. Show me something, anything that a REASONABLE PERSON would suggest otherwise. I see no fishing gear, nor any fish. Just bundles of what appears to be valuable drugs. Look at the images again and I dare you to tell me otherwise.
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Do Your Actions Speaks Louder then your knowledge?

The next verse begs to differ Mat5:20. The Pharisees were keeping their man-made traditions over obeying the commandments of God (Jesus quoting from the Ten Commandments) and Jesus in His own words said it made the word of God of no effect by keeping their traditions over obedience to God's commandments Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13, if our righteousness does not surpass theirs we will be no means enter into the Kingdom of heaven hence the warning in Mat5:19

Weren’t Pharisees the ones accusing him of working on the Sabbath.
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What happens spiritually that makes us born again?

This takes some explanation.

I see in scripture several different “portions” of the Holy Spirit. John talks about Jesus coming

Hey bling

I wouldn't call it portions. In the NT, we are complete "in Him" and lacking nothing (Colossians 2:9-14). We have everything at our disposal. The filling is not receiving more of the Holy Spirit, but for the Holy Spirit to be more in control of our lives as we yield more and more of ourselves to Him. In the OT, they didn't have the indwelling. But they did have the Holy Spirit "upon" them. That was only for specific tasks. One could make the case that the Holy Spirit upon an OT believer is similar to the filling in the NT. But, unlike the OT, the NT has the indwelling. In a nut shell, in the NT, a believer must be indwelt before they are filled. That indwelling is a deeper internal presence for relationship and transformation. While the filling if still for specific tasks. The OT "upon" was just to perform tasks. This was reserved for Prophets and associates in the OT. And The Apostles just before Pentecost (still OT).

Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Baptism of fire is what?

Luke 12: 49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed!

The fire in Matthew 3:10-12 is judgment. Everyone is baptized by Jesus. Either with the Holy Spirit unto life, or with fire unto judgment.

“Baptism of fire” seems to refer to the severe persecution which lots of Christians get to endure, but not every individual Christians will go through a baptism of fire, so will all Christians go through a baptism of the Holy Spirit John is referring to?

The baptism by fire in Matthew 3:10-12 isn't about the purification of believers, rather, it's about the baptism of unbelievers with fire, which is God's judgment.

Numbers 11: 17 I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take some of the power of the Spirit that is on you and put it on them. They will share the burden of the people with you so that you will not have to carry it alone.

There are tons of scripture referring to the Holy Spirit, like in Numbers 11 the Spirit can be portioned out.

John 20: 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

It's not the Holy Spirit being portioned out, rather, it's the task that is portioned out. The Holy Spirit is omniscient. Think of one fire starting another. It others are started, it doesn't diminish the first. These are the only two passages that I know of that suggest this delegation of power to perform a task. Some believe that the birth of the Church began here in John 20:21, instead of Pentecost, but I disagree. Vs. 23 means the Gospel. They are being commissioned to preach the Gospel.

John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Jesus could breathe on the disciples and they received some portion of the Spirit, but the indwelling portion which is always with them (yet can be quenched) had not yet come.

This applies to my response above also. I'll add that in John 14:17, 7:39, these are sheep. He would not lose one of them. They hear His voice (see In (John 20:21, Luke 24:44-53). Romans 8:29, I believe is speaking of them. True OT believers predestined to be conformed to Christlikeness. John 14:17 can be taken as Jesus is with them, and will be in them (Holy Spirit sometimes called the Spirit of Christ, Romans 8:9). Or, it could mean that the Holy Spirit is "upon" them, and will be in them. I think that both examples can apply equally because of the overlapping which results from the Trinity.

I'm going to post this before this gets too long. I'll answer the rest in a separate post.
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Citizens are fed up with Dem-invited migrants that have disdain for US law and culture

In this case, I am happy to be labeled a liberal.
Thanks for sharing.
I dont know if you are or aren't. I just want you not to twist scripture into some sort of political document for your personal political cause. Its a violation of scripture to do so.
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The Music Thread: Millennial Edition

One of the "oldies" stations in my area plays that song! It's crazy to think of them as "oldies".

I'm actually surprised at the amount of people in here that like No Doubt. They tend to be Gen X and Millennials, but just the fact that I know there are several people on here that like No Doubt and even Gwen Stefani's solo music.

I've thought about making a separate thread about No Doubt and Gwen Stefani.
I was born in December of 63 so technically I'm at the end of the Baby Boomers
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B flat B♭

Because no serious professional would work without safety measures. And don’t tell me they thought of a jetpack but not a fishing line.

It would be as stupid as shutting the shuttle door from the outside with no emergency latch, with a 100% oxygen environment and unisolated cables.
The other astronauts had backup jetpacks.
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Democrats clash with ICE over characterization of marijuana farm raid

It’s never been the hispanic guys. They’ve always showed up and done what they were supposed to. The quality of their work has ranged from acceptable to incredible.
Thats not my experience. And its not the experience of others I know. But you are correct. I also know Americans who have done shoddy work.

The truth is, anyone can do shoddy work, Americans or Hispanics.

Shoddy work isnt the real deal. Its illegals taking work away from Americans.
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anyone know anything about Gematria?

Consider, the wisdom of God, with which all creation was made, included mathematics, which had always been in the wisdom of God. It was necessarily present in God's wisdom, as God is triune in being. If God was not triune but solitary in being, there would be nothing of mathematics from that, as there would be nothing but solitary unity, everything would be just a value of one, and no other numbers. Love God has requires more than one, and creation would not come with no number but one. God's creation is possible as it comes from love that God has, and has without limit.

Yes, that's well put.

The entrance into the world of numbers in the Bible is shown to us right at the beginning of the Word of G-d. We see in the introduction how G-d comes into view. He exists. He is not described. He is not questioned. The same applies to the number one. The Bible does not begin with the letter one in the first letter, but with another number, two

1765561163786.png


Just as G-d is presupposed in the text, so too is His number presupposed. From this alone, one can recognise the connection between G-d and one. One could say: The biblical number one has the meaning ‘G-d’. It is not possible to formulate such a simple meaning for every number.

The third word, elohim (meaning G-d), has the numerical value one as its first letter. This reveals the meaning of one as the number of G-d. It is also striking that the third letter of the Bible is also one

1765560985583.png


It is therefore noteworthy that both in the words and in the letters there is a connection between one and three.

We see that the Bible begins with two. Both the first and second words begin with the letter two

1765561442339.png


When we write ‘letter,’ we often also mean ‘number.’ The first two words, ‘in the beginning‘ and ’created‘, describe creation (the act of creating) by G-d. Therefore, two is the number of creation. From our human perspective, creation is everything that we can perceive with our senses and think with our minds.

Therefore, two has a true diversity of meanings. However, we see the fundamental meaning in the relationship: Two as creation stands opposite its creator G-d (one). With creation, something new, something second, comes into being. It is the step from unity to diversity. Two is the beginning of the many. The process of creation is expressed by the numerical relationship

1+1 = 2.

The ‘adding together’ of two numbers (addition) represents the joining together of two units. The result of this calculation (the sum) is the new unit consisting of the joined units. G-d created something new out of Himself, creation. In this view, the two connects. But it also has a dividing or separating side. G-d is eternal, without beginning or end. Creation, however, has a beginning. In this respect, G-d and creation differ. Therefore, the two is also separate from the one.

Through the act of creation, G-d created the ‘opposite,’ the ‘you,’ the ‘other,’ the ‘new.’ When we look at the numbers, we see a further meaning of the number two as the number of the ‘Son,’ which is connected to one, the ‘Father.’ G-d's entire creation corresponds to two.

In Gen 1:1, we read that this creation consists of two parts, on the one hand ‘the heavens’ and on the other hand ‘the earth’.

However, the first three words of the Bible also conceal a meaning of three, which is revealed in the NT. In these three words, there is a twofold relationship between one and three:

1765562192559.png


The first letter of the third word is one and the third letter of the Bible is one. This already shows that G-d is related to three. It is in the NT that we learn that G-d is a Trinity.

The word elohim (G-d) is a plural word in Hebrew (like the word parents in English). However, the preceding verb ‘created’ is in the singular. This fact already reflects in the OT that G-d is a trinity (the triune G-d). A meaning of three is therefore ‘trinity’.
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B flat B♭

Well someone has to expose them for what they are.
People who went to the moon, you mean.

If you are adamant that no one has ever gone to the moon, then the whole matter is irrelevant.
There's nothing to expose - no one ever went there. You might as well tell us the number of tooth fairies who are vegetarian.
But you've written a list of Freemasons and said, "...... was the 6th man to walk on the moon". ".. was the 8th man", "........worked on Apollo". They must have done those things or you would not have that information about them.
Another own goal.

Besides, you can't talk about exposing them when, at other times, you are very happy to quote them.
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Democrats clash with ICE over characterization of marijuana farm raid

That pretty much comes up the "left" position. The left doesn't want illegals working, not because they are illegal but because being illegal they can be exploited and they do take jobs from those (citizens or not) who are protected by US labor law.
Thats also the rights position.
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B flat B♭


Because no serious professional would work without safety measures. And don’t tell me they thought of a jetpack but not a fishing line.

It would be as stupid as shutting the shuttle door from the outside with no emergency latch, with a 100% oxygen environment and unisolated cables.
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Why do people hate ICE...

I think the sticking point for most people is the idea that it is a decision instead of an emergent property of our culture. It is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy write large.
No true Sottsman is not a fallacy. We see evidence of that all the time. We see it in the immigration debate. People who say the dangerous Islamists dont represent all Islam followers are apply the No True Scottsman. And they are correct. Liberals are quick to point out that any liberal who commits violence doesn't truly represent liberals. Thats applying No True Scottsman.

So I don't believe in the No True Sottsman fallacy theory.

The Italians can decide what is Italian and what is not.
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2 Canons of the bible

You are right, and I am wrong. You are the expert not me. You have wasted my time before on my Enoch threads. I will not allow my time to be wasted anymore.
I am truly sorry you feel I have wasted your time. I thought the point of a forum was to discuss things. However, I am going to leave this thread now, as I certainly don't want to waste anybody's time. Thank you for the discussion.
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Democrats clash with ICE over characterization of marijuana farm raid

In my area a lot of contractors hire illegals to do the work. Its the illegals that are doing shoddy work.

That hasn’t been my experience at all. I don’t know the immigration status of any of the folks who’ve worked on my house, but many of them were hispanic with very poor English skills. In every case, my problems (and afaik, those of my immediate neighbors, too) have been with the native-born English speakers. Whether that was a white boss of a Hispanic crew not calling me back, or an American sub/contractor doing the work him/herself and screwing it up. It’s never been the hispanic guys. They’ve always showed up and done what they were supposed to. The quality of their work has ranged from acceptable to incredible.


How do I know? I know people in the business.

This guy talked about the big contractors and how they hire illegals. Which pushes the smaller ones out. Now that illegals are not going to work the smaller guys who won't do that are getting more work. This is what we need in America. Americans doing work for Americans. Not illegals doing work for Americans.
I understand the theory. I’m skeptical it shakes out that way, at least in the residential market.
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Ilan Omar did, in fact, marry her brother to commit immigration fraud.



The results of the test assert that there is a 99.999998% chance that Omar and her second husband Ahmed Elmi are siblings.

The report, drawn up by Endeavor DNA Laboratories does not name either Omar or Elmi, instead referring to them as 'Sibling 1' and 'Sibling 2.' DailyMail.com understands that Omar is Sibling 1.

Yes. Genetics prove that all the "conspiracy theories" about Ilan Omar committing immigration fraud by marrying her brother is true. DNA proves it and people closest to Ilan Omar admit it. IMO, she should be deported back to Somalia for fraud. I rally do not care about the fact that she is a member of Congress. The fact that she was able to be elevated to such a position demonstrates such a failure in the system, and explains why there is so much fraud in Minnesota. You elect a Somalian fraudster into congress, you get a Somalian fraudster in congress.
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