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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

‘Joseph Didn’t Make It’—Chicago-Area Church Updates Already Controversial Nativity Scene

So are political messages the norm in USA churches?

No, but sometimes issues of ethics intersect with issues of faith, and issues of public policy can in turn intersect with issues of ethics. The church shouldn't be saying "elect Joe Smith for Senate", but the church might be called to say "this government policy is unjust". It's not always an easy line to draw.
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

What if you worship the Lord 7 days a week ?
Yep. I do, however, the SDA considers the 4th commandment to be a moral commandment. This means that those going to services on Sunday are sinning and if they don’t repent then they are lost. Quite the legalism.
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Adam

I haven't heard of a metaphorical Adam but there is a deeper meaning of Adam than the literal. It's allegorical.
What then, were the authors of Genesis 2-3 and of Romans 5, who both speak of Adam, intending to convey? Genesis 2-3 does not show any of signs of “exalted prose narrative” or poetry. It reads as the account of real events; it looks like history.
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

@Studyman

Here is my OP again. I’m going to post real slow so you can comprehend what I am posting. No AI was used.

“The writings of Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. In other words, the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday.

(These are my own words. No AI here)


Here are her writings:


(“Her” refers to Ellen White in case you missed it)

Reception of Mark of the Beast Future
—The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false sabbath in the place of the true, are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. The mark of the beast is the papal sabbath, which has been accepted by the world in the place of the day of God’s appointment. Ev 234.1
No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast. Ev 234.2
With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Manuscript 51, 1899. Ev 235.1
When Seal of God Is Refused—If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls “My holy day,” you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.—The Review and Herald, July 13, 1897. Ev 235.2
As a Result of Disregard of Light—God has given men the Sabbath as a sign between Him and them, as a test of their loyalty. Those who, after the light regarding God’s law comes to them, continue to disobey and exalt human laws above the law of God in the great crisis before us will receive the mark of the beast.—Letter 98, 1900. Ev 235.3
Caution in Presenting the Sunday Question—[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted this spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation.—Letter 55, 1886. Ev 235.4
Let the Truth Do the Cutting—Satan’s efforts against the advocates of the truth will wax more bitter and determined to the very close of time. As in Christ’s day the chief priests and rulers stirred up the people against Him, so today the religious leaders will excite bitterness and prejudice against the truth for this time. The people will be led to acts of violence and opposition which they would never have thought of had they not been imbued with the animosity of professed Christians against the truth. Ev 236.1
And what course shall the advocates of truth pursue? They have the unchangeable, eternal Word of God, and they should reveal the fact that they have the truth as it is in Jesus. Their words must not be rugged and sharp. In their presentation of truth they must manifest the love and meekness and gentleness of Christ. Let the truth do the cutting; the Word of God is as a sharp, two-edged sword, and will cut its way to the heart. Those who know that they have the truth should not, by the use of harsh and severe expressions, give Satan one chance to misinterpret their spirit.—The Review and Herald, October 14, 1902. Ev 236.2
A Call to Enlighten the Masses—I have been shown that Satan is stealing a march upon us. The law of God, through the agency of Satan, is to be made void. In our land of boasted freedom, religious liberty will come to an end. The contest will be decided over the Sabbath question, which will agitate the whole world. Ev 236.3
Our time for work is limited, and God calls us as ministers and people to be minutemen. Teachers as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves must come to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty. There are many who do not understand the prophecies relating to these days, and they must be enlightened.—Letter 1, 1875. Ev 237.1

(These are Ellen White’s words from the LINK below. If you don’t know how to open it then just click on the blue word evangelism. No AI here).



Is Ellen White correct? Are those that worship our Lord on Sunday doomed to receive the mark of the beast?

(These are also my words. No AI here).
What if you worship the Lord 7 days a week ?
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

Respectfully, if all you are doing is copying my words into ChatGPT and pasting the output, I will not continue to engage. That approach is disrespectful. I am taking the time to offer careful, reasoned responses, and you are outsourcing the work to an AI and presenting it as a substantive objection. That is not argumentation; it is merely being argumentative. If you lack the Greek to respond yourself, either defer to someone who does or offer a different, thoughtful objection. Don't copy-paste something just to have something to say.

Past examples in this and other of our discussions have shown that ChatGPT outputs are only partially accurate, especially when it isn't given the full context. I've also shown that you often don't understand what you're even sharing. Once, for example, you pasted a response agreeing with a point I made, and missed it entirely, thinking ChatGPT was objecting to what I said. I will treat further ChatGPT copy-paste jobs as concessions. I will not read them.

What your latest copy-paste job also shows is you are missing the substance of my argument (which, again, invites the question, what prompt did you give ChatGPT?). I have never claimed that διδακτοὶ θεοῦ, as a grammatical form, by itself necessitates monergism. Adjectives do not encode causal mechanics. My point is that, in John 6:44-45, the syntax and discourse logic, especially in light of the Isaiah citation, demonstrates that διδακτοὶ θεοῦ describes the result of God's sovereign action, not the mere offering of instruction. It is a predicate adjective of state, reflecting a completed, effectual divine act.

The question is not what the adjective can mean in isolation, but what it denotes in context. The text presents a causal and logical sequence: those who are drawn (ἑλκύσῃ) are "God-taught" (διδακτοὶ θεοῦ) and thereby possess the capacity to come. This is not contingent or optional; the state described is the effect of God's action, enabling coming to Christ.

Moreover, the aorist participles ἀκούσας … καὶ μαθών ("who has heard and learned") indicate antecedent action. They describe those who come as already having heard and learned form the Father, precisely what "being God-taught" entails.
I copied my whole previous post and your whole previous post and asked the ChatGPT if you were right.

Now it does not sound like you argue against my previous statement: "The text does not explain why they listen and learn, why they are God-taught. It simply presents these as qualities of those whom God draws."
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

@Studyman

Here is my OP again. I’m going to post real slow so you can comprehend what I am posting. No AI was used.

“The writings of Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. In other words, the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday.

(These are my own words. No AI here)


Here are her writings:


(“Her” refers to Ellen White in case you missed it)

Reception of Mark of the Beast Future
—The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false sabbath in the place of the true, are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. The mark of the beast is the papal sabbath, which has been accepted by the world in the place of the day of God’s appointment. Ev 234.1
No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast. Ev 234.2
With rapid steps we are approaching this period. When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Manuscript 51, 1899. Ev 235.1
When Seal of God Is Refused—If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls “My holy day,” you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.—The Review and Herald, July 13, 1897. Ev 235.2
As a Result of Disregard of Light—God has given men the Sabbath as a sign between Him and them, as a test of their loyalty. Those who, after the light regarding God’s law comes to them, continue to disobey and exalt human laws above the law of God in the great crisis before us will receive the mark of the beast.—Letter 98, 1900. Ev 235.3
Caution in Presenting the Sunday Question—[We are] not to provoke those who have accepted this spurious sabbath, an institution of the Papacy in the place of God’s holy Sabbath. Their not having the Bible arguments in their favor makes them all the more angry and determined to supply the place of arguments that are wanting in the Word of God by the power of their might. The force of persecution follows the steps of the dragon. Therefore great care should be exercised to give no provocation.—Letter 55, 1886. Ev 235.4
Let the Truth Do the Cutting—Satan’s efforts against the advocates of the truth will wax more bitter and determined to the very close of time. As in Christ’s day the chief priests and rulers stirred up the people against Him, so today the religious leaders will excite bitterness and prejudice against the truth for this time. The people will be led to acts of violence and opposition which they would never have thought of had they not been imbued with the animosity of professed Christians against the truth. Ev 236.1
And what course shall the advocates of truth pursue? They have the unchangeable, eternal Word of God, and they should reveal the fact that they have the truth as it is in Jesus. Their words must not be rugged and sharp. In their presentation of truth they must manifest the love and meekness and gentleness of Christ. Let the truth do the cutting; the Word of God is as a sharp, two-edged sword, and will cut its way to the heart. Those who know that they have the truth should not, by the use of harsh and severe expressions, give Satan one chance to misinterpret their spirit.—The Review and Herald, October 14, 1902. Ev 236.2
A Call to Enlighten the Masses—I have been shown that Satan is stealing a march upon us. The law of God, through the agency of Satan, is to be made void. In our land of boasted freedom, religious liberty will come to an end. The contest will be decided over the Sabbath question, which will agitate the whole world. Ev 236.3
Our time for work is limited, and God calls us as ministers and people to be minutemen. Teachers as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves must come to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty. There are many who do not understand the prophecies relating to these days, and they must be enlightened.—Letter 1, 1875. Ev 237.1

(These are Ellen White’s words from the LINK below. If you don’t know how to open it then just click on the blue word evangelism. No AI here).



Is Ellen White correct? Are those that worship our Lord on Sunday doomed to receive the mark of the beast?

(These are also my words. No AI here).
Upvote 0

Kirk Cameron Takes Heat for His Annihilationist View on Hell

I had read sometime ago that he no longer believed in a pretrib rapture as those stories portray. Good for him. No offense to those who believe otherwise but I personally do not find it biblical as well.
Jesus did not believe in a pretrib rapture either. People simply made it up.
And now he's turning on the ECT doctrine. That's amazing. Maybe he decided to search out these truths on his own instead of always letting others lead the way.
It is sad because so many people look up to him and expect him to have all the answers. But he doesn't and neither do we. Some verses we may struggle with for years until we get a firm understanding. But he is still a brother in Christ.
Now one verse that shows an eternal consciousness while in hell is Daniel 12:2. It gives a contrast of two different people groups. The first being those who are brought to life and go to heaven, and then those who do not go to heaven. It says that these people who do not go to heaven have everlasting shame and contempt. Shame and contempt cannot be possible if a person is not conscious. Those in Hell will have everlasting shame and contempt and consciousness.
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
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DreamyLaLa's Art

I thought I'd blow the dust off this thread and post here again since it has been almost a year!:oops: To celebrate Christmas season, I thought I'd share a design of mine that was originally made for a calendar that I gave as a gift to my sister last Christmas. It features my two characters, Vanille and Lacage, wearing wintry outfits and holding a plum pudding cake. I drew the characters myself, but the background was designed using Canva, a graphic design program.
Genevieve's 2025 Calendar Jan-Jun).jpg
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Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which commandment in The Written Law is the greatest?” 37 Yeshua said to him, “You shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your God from all your heart and from all your soul and from all your power and from all your mind.” 38 “This is the great and the first commandment.” 39 “And the second which is like it is, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commands depend all The Written Law and The Prophets.”
What bearing does that have on AI?
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Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday

That's what I thought, you can't find anything in the AI generated Post that you promote, that teaches that SDA, or Ellen White, teaches that a man who worships God on Sunday receives the "mark of the beast".

Otherwise you would most certainly have pointed it out to me. I have read your web page, and I can not find what you are preaching. I asked for you to show me, in case I missed it, but even you can't find it.

That is because it doesn't exist, it is a lie that you or your adopted religious sect made up.

Why don't you just confess your sin and repent. You can disagree with SDA doctrine without lying about them.
Again, I did not use AI and I posted a link to Ellen White’s own writings which is where I posted HER OWN words.

Im not going to lower myself to your level so go bother someone else.
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Do Your Actions Speaks Louder then your knowledge?

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans:7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

Jesus the Lawgiver

The apostle John, (1John: 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John:3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. We need to seriously take this to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John: 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?
Nothing but legalism here. No grace and salvation by the works of the law.
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WHO'S GOSPEL IS TO BE PREACHED TODAY. ??

-

The only one that gives eternal life to people. Which is to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life, God's free gift.
And GLAD to see you AND I LOVE when all would give a verse for your belief. and always GLAD to exchange

anyone. POSOITIONS. and as you know that I always GIVE. with the GREEK WORD and tying to explain what the TENSE
CASES so that everyone will see that I have NOT ADDED or . TALKEN AWAY. from. any verse and any one will. see that OLD

COVEMNANT has been TAKEN AWAY. and Heb 9:18. says that the blood of ANIMAL does not take AWAY TAKE. AWAY
SIN. and that ONLY the JESUS BLOOD. can take away sin. to be SAVED and remember EPH 1:3 CHOSEN

IN. him. BEFORE // PRO the OVER THROW. of the WORLD. !!

And. if. the NEW COVENANT for today , no one has yet explained how anyone is saved by the NEW COVENANT. !!

dan p
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B flat B♭

Any high res photo will do it has at least some bumps here and there and isn’t perfectly round.

I had a look at a few of them. No jagged edges, especially when you zoom in.
Bollocks.
That is what you are full of.
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B flat B♭

Examples?

Any high res photo will do it has at least some bumps here and there and isn’t perfectly round.


Even fish eye lenses don't distort straight lines passing through the centre of the field of view, and I've posted a frame from a balloon camera video in another thread where the horizon was in the centre and the curvature was clearly visible.

Bollocks.
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An Un-asked For Street Debate In Greece

where was this interview/interrogation?
The background looks like Greece (or somewhere eastern Mediterranean), but the signage is all in English.
The priest has an American sounding accent, and the woman has a British sounding accent.
edit: ah, I see the Greek flag, and the thread title says it is in Greece.
edit again: It seems she may be American. I am from the UK and she has what I consider the 'YouTube' accent which has gained quite the wide usage among the younger generations.
I think it was in Athens, but I can't say for certain.
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B flat B♭

You can clear see the rugged edge on all photos except solar eclipses.
Examples?
Yeah most space photos are fake or have fish eye lenses but the Chinese forgot to use a fisheye lens on their latest ”space walk” I wonder if they’re trying to tell us something.
Even fish eye lenses don't distort straight lines passing through the centre of the field of view, and I've posted a frame from a balloon camera video in another thread where the horizon was in the centre and the curvature was clearly visible.
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