ralliann said:

Citizenship in Judaism is by religious practice. What makes a person a Jew? You can't fell Jew's to denounce they ARE Jews. And you cannot tell Israel as a country they cannot consider foreign born Jews as Jews. You can be all kinds of nationalities in Islam. Circumcision does not make you automatically Saudi Arabian.

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Why are you bringing circumcision into a discussion on Trump's wanting to end dual citizenship in America? If dual citizenship were to be barred by law here with having another citizenship would get you American citizenship revoked. My question is if Jews would be the sole exception. You seem to be arguing in favor that they would be.

ralliann said:

Because it matters to Jews. It is their religion. What is the exception? They do not need one. And you cannot tell Israel they cannot consider them Jews either. Now they have reclaimed their homeland. Just leave them alone.

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No one would be removing the Israeli citizenship, just the American one should this not be the exception. This isn't about Israel, this is about the American president wanting to forbid dual citizenship - American only. Jews would be free to choose to remain American and forfeit their Israeli citizenship or they can claim Israeli citizenship and forfeit their American one - unless there is a special condition just for them.

DOGE found so much fraud that nobody was indicted for fraud.

d taylor said:

A few false images that have worked their way into the church.

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Completely off topic.

Valletta said:

You need to remember that the Biden administration insisted that the border was safe, secure, and closed

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It was. Trump built the wall and Mexico paid for it, remember?

Valletta said:

The Biden administration pushed as much toward a completely open border as they could get away with. Letting in 10 to 20 million people swamped our resources

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Never happened.

linux.poet said:

Perhaps one would enjoy starting a new thread in the Conspiracy Theories subforum to discuss their loyalty to dead governments. I simply believe that a functioning Christian political philosophy must function in terms of living governments and active authorities, rather than dead ones.

Have a good day.

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Not if they steal from Caesar.

DaisyDay said:

Right, so what? I was talking about dual citizenship, not religious practices in the post you quoted.

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Citizenship in Judaism is by religious practice. What makes a person a Jew? You can't fell Jew's to denounce they ARE Jews. And you cannot tell Israel as a country they cannot consider foreign born Jews as Jews. You can be all kinds of nationalities in Islam. Circumcision does not make you automatically Saudi Arabian.

DaisyDay said:

Then why in the world are you addressing that question to me when my remark - that you quoted - was about dual citizenship and whether Jews would get an exception? Your posts make no sense as replies to me.

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Because it matters to Jews. It is their religion. What is the exception? They do not need one. And you cannot tell Israel they cannot consider them Jews either. Now they have reclaimed their homeland. Just leave them alone.

ralliann said:

No, circumcision goes on independent of country. it is a religious practice. Circumcision was done in Egypt while they were slaves, before Israel was even a nation.

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Right, so what? I was talking about dual citizenship, not religious practices in the post you quoted.

ralliann said:

So what? That does not say anything about where they live either.

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Then why in the world are you addressing that question to me when my remark - that you quoted - was about dual citizenship and whether Jews would get an exception? Your posts make no sense as replies to me.

Mixed Drink

MarcusGregor said:

As Ye might say, "MAGA doesn't care about deaf people."

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MAGA being who exactly?

Valletta said:

You need to remember that the Biden administration insisted that the border was safe, secure, and closed, one of the biggest government hoaxes in American history. Some, such as Victor Davis Hanson, would put the number at the lower end of the range I provided, 10-12 million while others at the higher or even higher. We really don't know how many totally evaded detection but it is reasonable to assume that those are not people likely to fill out surveys. I understand the effort to downplay the numbers, be aware that much of it comes from the same people who were participants in the Biden administration hoax.

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Uh-huh. You stated before that 20M people came in illegally over the border during the Biden administration but the total number of all illegal immigrants which include those who arrived in the decades before Biden is around 20M. That's a number Donald spouts from time to time but he is famously a fabulist.

linux.poet said:

I see no point with arguing with insane posts.

BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: The Fall of Rome

Gradual decline or shattering catastrophe?

www.bbc.co.uk

Roman Empire - Expansion, Decline, Legacy | Britannica

Roman Empire - Expansion, Decline, Legacy: Who were the Five Good Emperors of the Roman Empire? The Five Good Emperors of Rome were Marcus Cocceius Nerva (reigned 96–98), Trajan (98–117), Hadrian (117–138), Antoninus Pius (138–161), and Marcus Aurelius (161–180). Their non-hereditary...

www.britannica.com

One cannot steal from Caesar what does not belong to him, and what belongs to him is denarii. One cannot steal nonexistent denarii from a Caesar who does not exist. One cannot be penalized for flaunting the authority of a nonexistent government.

Christ, not Caesar, is Lord, and He will judge the living and the dead.

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Alotta stuff belongs to Caesar and it is bound to be taken back some day. You wanna hope it doesn’t happen, you do you.

Hentenza said:

Historical context. The mosaic law was given 430 years after Abraham.

“Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 3:16-17 (NASB2020) - Now the promises were spoken to Abr | YouVersion

Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. Wha

bible.com

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This is just poor translation. It is talking about the covenant of the promise (better translations include “in Christ”) and not the covenant of circumcision/blood oath through animals.

Hebrews 8:13

DaisyDay said:

If everyone has to choose a single citizenship, then they can choose Israeli in accordance with their religious practice.

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No, circumcision goes on independent of country. it is a religious practice. Circumcision was done in Egypt while they were slaves, before Israel was even a nation.

DaisyDay said:

Um, what? Muslim also circumcise and lots of Christians as well....what's that got to do with dual citizenship or the denial of it?

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So what? That does not say anything about where they live either.

ralliann said:

How? their citizenship is a religious practice.

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If everyone has to choose a single citizenship, then they can choose Israeli in accordance with their religious practice.

ralliann said:

We can't demand Jew's to not circumcise their males. Nor to circumcise a proselyte?

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Um, what? Muslim also circumcise and lots of Christians as well....what's that got to do with dual citizenship or the denial of it?

keras said:

There is plenty of verses that prove that the Lords Christian peoples will go to live in all of the Holy Land. The culmination of the whole saga of the Middle East region.

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I did not ask for you to repeat your whole thesis across this thread again - as if I had not read it before in 5 years of you doing this! (It's full of the very errors I have critiqued above.)

I asked you to go back and look at the EXACT verses I quoted in their EXACT context - and you refuse to do so.
Because if you acknowledge those prophecies were about THOSE nations - then what else is?
Because if the promises of returning to Jerusalem were to THAT generation a lifetime AFTER THAT exile - then what else is?

But you are right in that sometimes Isaiah refers to more future focussed, gospel focussed, sometimes eternally focussed realities.
And sometimes he does not! Sometimes he's reminding Israel of what is coming for them - there and then - with Assyria and Babylon. Context is a thing! So by the time we get to Isaiah 13 we've already been warned that Israel is going to be destroyed, and by whom.

Yet Isaiah 13 goes onto say that the instruments of God's judgement against Israel will themselves be judged.

13 A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
2 Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,
shout to them;
beckon to them
to enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded those I prepared for battle;
I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath—
those who rejoice in my triumph.
4 Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The Lord Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens—
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—
to destroy the whole country.
6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every heart will melt with fear.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.
9 See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
they will all return to their own people,
they will flee to their native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants,
nor will they look with compassion on children.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the pride and glory of the Babylonians,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
there no nomads will pitch their tents,
there no shepherds will rest their flocks.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about.
22 Hyenas will inhabit her strongholds,
jackals her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.


Babylon's destruction = Day of the Lord.
Babylon's destruction = rise of the Medes.
Bablyon's destruction = sun and moon and stars not giving their light.
Babylon's destruction = as thorough as God's DIRECT judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah - but through the Medes. (Persians.)

So given how clear this is, how do you know your other "Dark Sun" passages are about Isaiah's unimaginably far, far future - when here he is clearly writing about the Assyrians (in previous chapters) and Babylonians and Persians?

More on that context

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Why is no one freaking out about our Muslim Administrator of the Centers of Medicare and Medicaid Services?

jonojim1337 said:

So what?

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Historical context. The mosaic law was given 430 years after Abraham.

“Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as one would in referring to many, but rather as in referring to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came 430 years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

As Ye might say, "MAGA doesn't care about deaf people."

SabbathBlessings said:

Yet we are told the test about knowing Him

The Test of Knowing Him​

1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

I think people are taking a lot of prerogatives that only belong to God to decided if we should keep or not keep His commandments or edit the Words that were written by God as if we know better than He. There is a reason God placed the 4th commandment in with the other 9 commandments as well as placing His seal in the 4th commandment Exo20:11 and maybe it doesn't make sense to the majority, but that doesn't change it is the Testimony of God Exo31:18 His written and spoken will. Adam and Even didn’t think it mattered to eat from one tree, it’s just a tree, but it got them kicked out of the garden. People take this same approach to the Holy day of the Lord Isa58::13 , it caused almost a whole nation not to enter their promise land Eze20:15-16 we are told not to follow in that same path of disobedience Heb4:11. God says He does not change and we have to get through this James2:11-12 Ecc12:13-14 2Cor5:10 before we can enter into our Promise Land Rev22:14

I think a lot of people take the approach what is the least I need to do to get into heaven, so I can live how I want and receive His blessings. God only blessed and sanctified one day Exo20:11 Gen2:3 and blesses and sanctifies us when we obey Him Isa56:2 Eze20:12, no Scripture say that the blessings that belong to the day God gave it to is transferred over to a day that we find more convenient for us because its what the majority are doing, no one was ever the majority who were following God in Scripture, it was always a remnant and still is Rev12:17KJV , He said it won’t be in the majority in last days either Mat7:13-14 , sadly one is missing the the bigger picture regarding this commandment, God just wants to spend time with us and what day better to do so that comes with His power of blessings and sanctification that only God can give Isa59:2 Eze20:12, and its more about the power behind who is asking to keep it and who is saying the opposite of God. God said Remember Exo20:8-11 another voice told us to forget. Which voice will we listen to. Whoever we obey is who we serve or worship Rom6:16 Mark-:3-14 Mark7:7-13

Regarding Ellen White and Steps to Christ she very much speaks about the Law, I had ChatGpt summarize it using only Steps to Christ

---

1. The Law Reveals Sin and Our Need of Christ​

Chapter: “Repentance”

White explains that people do not truly see their sin until they understand God’s Law:


She echoes Romans 3:20; 7:7, showing that the Law functions as a mirror, not a savior.

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2. The Law Is Perfect and Unchangeable​

Chapter: “Faith and Acceptance”

White is explicit that faith in Christ does not cancel obedience:


She rejects the idea that grace abolishes the Law, aligning with Matthew 5:17 and Romans 3:31.

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3. Obedience Is the Fruit of Salvation, Not the Cause​

Chapter: “The Test of Discipleship”

This is one of the clearest discussions of God’s Law:


She directly connects love, faith, and obedience, reflecting John 14:15 and 1 John 2:3–4.

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4. The Law Cannot Save—but It Still Binds​

Chapter: “Growing Up Into Christ”

White explains sanctification in relation to the Law:


Christ alone provides forgiveness and power to obey—consistent with Galatians 3:24.

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5. Christ’s Life Is the Living Expression of the Law​

Throughout the book, White presents Christ as the embodiment of the Law:


This reflects Psalm 40:8 and Hebrews 10:7.

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Summary (Very Important)​

In Steps to Christ, Ellen G. White teaches that:

• ✔ God’s Law is holy, just, and good
• ✔ The Law reveals sin
• ✔ The Law cannot save
• ✔ Salvation is by grace through faith
• ✔ Obedience is the evidence of genuine conversion
• ✘ Grace does not abolish the Law

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Are you depending on your “obedience” to save you? If so, do believe you have obeyed enough to merit God’s salvation?

The AI summery of Steps To Christ is not a substitute for reading it. If you are not saved by your obedience to the law how can you be lost by your disobedience?

I think you under the misconception that righteousness by faith does away with the law. That is not the case. It establishes the law.

Hentenza said:

It is. But the law was given to Moses at Sinai not to Abraham. God gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision.

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So what?

linux.poet said:

No, that is a non-sequitur because the authority of Caesar no longer exists. The Roman Empire has long since collapsed and is no longer a functional political entity. The few remaining denarii are in private collections or museums. It is absurd to consider rendering non-functioning currency to a nonexistent government.

Romans 13 and the principle expressed in Luke apply to all governments a Christian might find themselves under. That is the point behind such passages.

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That’s just wrong and the authority of Caesar does not rely on the number of denari in circulation.

eleos1954 said:

Angels were not given the capability to procreate ... if they were what stopped or is stopping them from doing it now? No such thing as a angel/human hybrid.

Genesis 6

1Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

It states here they were MEN (mankind) men/man not angels.

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The giants were mighty men not the fallen angels that became flesh, and bred with women. 1 Enoch written before Noahs flood is the gold standard if it goes against 1 Enoch like Cave of tresures, and Augustine did it is wrong.

jonojim1337 said:

Mosaic law applies to the Israelites under the old covenant

It’s just the terms of the contract.

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It is. But the law was given to Moses at Sinai not to Abraham. God gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision.