wing2000 said:

....I guess Disney isn't censoring ABC News reporters.

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More likely they think no one will notice

probinson said:

Would you do "X" if "Y" hadn't happened? It may not be a condition, but "Y" was a catalyst for the action. And if "Y" isn't a factor any longer, "X" is no longer necessary.

It's "in response to the congressional redistricting in Texas in 2025". But if there is no congressional redistricting in Texas in 2025, there is nothing to "respond" to.

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The thing is that it has happened. It may or may not be reversed, but Texas did go through congressional redistricting in 2025.

probinson said:

Legal proceedings aside, the intent of this proposition was clearly stated to "neutralize" what Texas was doing. But if Texas can't use partisan gerrymandering to rig the election in their favor, there's nothing to "neutralize".

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I don't disagree, but the way that the California law was written, the only ways to reverse it prior to 2030 are to find it unconstitutional or pass another law to roll it back.

Fervent said:

It has an inhibitory effect that could easily qualify as a restriction on free exercise.

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I disagree.

IT's not like the early churches had salaries or major expenses. House churches were common. These were legitimate ways to freely exercise your rights.

I don't see how a tax could inhibit me practicing my religion. I can't think of a single "requirement of the faith" that requires any kind of significant expenditure...or frankly any expenditure except for a bit of wine and bread.
And I'm not trying to be facetious or anything now...... is there?.

It costs me nothing to meet with my friends in our houses. To sing and worship and have fun together for a while.

Just because a church building would get taxed, doesn't mean I can't practice my religion as a privately owned physical building is also no real requirement to the faith.

BPPLEE said:

Interesting that ABC asks this question when it's parent company has no qualms about doing business in Saudi Arabia

Disney recently built a pop-up theme park in Saudi Arabia

Disney built a 98-foot castle in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, along with "Lion King" and "Encanto" attractions — but now it’s all gone.

attractionsmagazine.com

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....I guess Disney isn't censoring ABC News reporters.

"We assess that Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman approved an operation in Istanbul, Turkey to capture or kill Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi."


Today, the POTUS honored the Prince murderer with a red carpet White House welcome, including a military procession and an F-35 flyover.

rambot said:

And yet.....

They exist.

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rambot said:

So what's next?

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I'm game to hear you defend this, but we're getting a little off topic. So if you're up to it, PM me because I've never encountered one. In fact, most moral philosophy has abandoned the idea of grounded morality entirely and shifted to more practical questions.

essentialsaltes said:

The fuller quote is worse. Per atrupar

"You're mentioning someone [referring to Khashoggi or Charlie Kirk, I'm not sure which] that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen. But he [points to MBS] knew nothing about it. You don't have to embarrass our guest."

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Interesting that ABC asks this question when it's parent company has no qualms about doing business in Saudi Arabia

Fervent said:

How so? In light of the is-ought problem, I don't really see a basis for metaphysical grounding outside of an objective moral agent.

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And yet.....

They exist.

So what's next?

com7fy8 said:

When I did street preaching, I knew how Paul says the preaching of the cross is the power of God to us who are saved.

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

So, I understood that if I simply preached Jesus on the cross God could use this to save people.

Also, we have Isaiah 55:11 >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. . It shall not return to Me void,
. . But it shall accomplish what I please,
. . And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

So, whatsoever is God's word, it shall do what God wants . . . not only what we might understand it to mean, but what God is able to desire and do ! ! !

So, while I was preaching . . . speaking with no preparation, but understanding I should be submissive to God, every moment while calling out what I said, I understood that whatever God had me say would be His word which He could use with each person howsoever He pleased.

Ones might hear one sentence, others a couple sentences, others might hear a little message. Each sentence could be a seed message, or in combination with other sentences it could form a message with more than one sentence. And there were longer combinations of things I said. So, ones could get a sermon in a moment, walking by, while others might stop or hear more. And I have stood where there was no one, and I would get directed to preach. And on I would go and ones might walk by. One time I preached to not many people going by; but another day a certain man profusely thanked me for the message I had given which helped him so much > and I never saw him while I was just calling over an intersection near a day homeless shelter.

At times, I did deal with morals. After all, Jesus died so we would repent and be forgiven for things that are wrong. So, part of preaching the cross can involve talking about right from wrong. However, I might concentrate on the sin problems which cause the things we are told not to do. I would not pick on certain groups of people and certain more politically involved sins, but talk about how sin takes us the wrong way.

I would talk about things within us which control us and do not deeply and nicely satisfy us to do what Jesus wants - - things which do not give us rest for our souls. And I might talk about how Jesus guarantees us His kind and pleasant rest while we do what He has us doing >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

And then I might say, "That is why God does not want you to do what He says is wrong. And as you can see, there are a number of church people who are not doing things right, by obeying Jesus in His rest for our souls. So, you are not the only one; we all need how Jesus is able to save us and deeply correct us."

"And Jesus died for all of us; so Jesus is not at all conceited. So, you are wise not to be so conceited that you think Jesus is not good enough for you!"

And I might talk about how sexual preferences can be only ways to get the pleasure you want; the intimacy you can have with pleasure feelings is not the same as we can have intimacy with God and with other Jesus people who know how to love; intimacy with pleasure does not make us all-loving the way Jesus wants. So, I would be talking about what can go for any person, not only for certain ones in political complication. "There still are church culture people who are intimate with their pleasures more than with God and their own spouses and families; we all need Jesus to have us find out how to love."

So, I guess I could be personal, instead of political.

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God works in mysterious ways. It may even be nothing you say particulary but how you said it or even something unrelated that causes the person to be convicted.

I think if we start getting into the hot topics of the day thats when it starts to evoke politics. Or attract dissenters who are looking for a fight. I think its the big questions in life that people relate to. They are looking for answers.

Just offering the Gospel can be enough. I think thats what Paul and the disciples did. They testified as witnesses. Like a witness to an event. They were appealing to others that this was the truth. They proclaimed a truth and left it at that.

I know Paul would sometimes engage in debates with some. I think it mentions Paul having some heated debates. But I think this was those who were already religious and were arguing over issues like circumcision or some other issue relating to religious practice.

But many of the Gentiles or God fearers who were interested in what the new Christians had to offer which was a new way of life. They seen the example in the growing church and the love and peace it offered.

Its hard to preach in a culture that hates God. They have seen the hypocracy and some will be triggered just seeing a preacher. So I think its important to be humble and find a way to example what your saying. Still some will hate Christ no matter what.

Hans Blaster said:

How do you usually file forms to the IRS?

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I'm not sure how tax burdens are determined, quarterly?

Hans Blaster said:

Filing a tax form does not inhibit "free exercise" (and neither would property taxes).

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It has an inhibitory effect that could easily qualify as a restriction on free exercise.

rambot said:

What? Metaphysical groundings can come from those things too.

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How so? In light of the is-ought problem, I don't really see a basis for metaphysical grounding outside of an objective moral agent.

rambot said:

Yeah. Frankly, I was really struggling with how to figure that out for a while and a well timed sermon on those Fruits radically simplified and clarified and simple it is

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Yeah, it took supernatural intervention to open my eyes.

rambot said:

Of course, there are complicating factors. There are some "personality types" that have great, great difficultly following along with a few fruits.

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Yeah, that's why I don't make a habit of sorting "Christian" and "non-Christian" outside of broad generalities. God knows the heart, and some people are being brought along slowly.

RocksInMyHead said:

That's not a conditional. "I'm doing X because of Y" is an explanation, not a condition.

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Would you do "X" if "Y" hadn't happened? It may not be a condition, but "Y" was a catalyst for the action. And if "Y" isn't a factor any longer, "X" is no longer necessary.

RocksInMyHead said:

If you wanted to make it conditional, you would say "I will do X if they do Y."

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It's "in response to the congressional redistricting in Texas in 2025". But if there is no congressional redistricting in Texas in 2025, there is nothing to "respond" to.

Legal proceedings aside, the intent of this proposition was clearly stated to "neutralize" what Texas was doing. But if Texas can't use partisan gerrymandering to rig the election in their favor, there's nothing to "neutralize".

Apple Sky said:

I thought he mean''''''''t people on here, I'm not a mind reader.

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You're not a context reader either, it seems. No wonder you misunderstand Genesis 1

Fervent said:

I'm more thinking metaphysical grounding, rather than developmental.

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What? Metaphysical groundings can come from those things too.

Fervent said:

It only makes sense. Everything else can be at odds, but if we can agree to be peacemakers and show the love of God our allegiance will be clear.

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Yeah. Frankly, I was really struggling with how to figure that out for a while and a well timed sermon on those Fruits radically simplified and clarified and simple it is

Of course, there are complicating factors. There are some "personality types" that have great, great difficultly following along with a few fruits.

Apple Sky said:

I thought @prodromos mean''''''t someone on here.

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Why would you think that?
Dean Odle and Rob Skiba aren't on these forums, so why would you assume I meant you had called people on these forums liars?
Given the context, I assume you are no longer denying being a hypocrite?

Tim and Delvianna have given you good things to pray about and be honest with God about these things they have shared. What I offer below is not meant to disagree with what they have said.

JohnB445 said:

I have only gambled very small amount of money $2, the excitement of the chance to win big was there,

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Ok, so it can look, here, like you are saying you would like to be rich. Beware >

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition." (1 Timothy 6:9)

"be content with such things as you have" > in Hebrews 13:5.

I think now of this > maybe > perhaps > by being more or less interested in using money to get a lot of money, you could be cutting yourself short. You can do better to develop in your ability to do good things which money is not enough to get. So, I mean, by giving such attention to what money could do, you could be short-circuiting your attention from what God is able to do in you as a younger child of God who needs to mature more to discover and appreciate what God and His love in you can make you ***creative*** to do.

JohnB445 said:

I wasn't really disappointed it was $2 not enough to buy a bag of chips these days.

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You mention chips, which can be a weight gainer and a money user-upper And yes food can be a substitute for the satisfaction of learning how to relate in God's love with various people. So, yes you can discover doing with God what money and enjoyment of food can not do. However, God's word does say God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," in 1 Timothy 6:17. So, I do not mean you must not enjoy certain nice things and the money to get them; however - - - learning how to love, with Jesus and His example and word, is the most fulfilling education and adventure and accomplishment that there is.

JohnB445 said:

I figured i'm not lucky and moved on.

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How social is it? I suspect you do this by yourself. At least, get into some cheap-prize bingo, maybe. Even get some socially needy people together for some gaming which has no prize but that they are sharing with one another.

JohnB445 said:

I can see how it can develop into a problem with people gambling excessive amounts of money, and they are devastated. But what about gambling such small amount of money it has no effect at all to the person who lost?

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It depends. Our Apostle Paul says >

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If you are depending on it for excitement . . . this can mean you are under its power . . . including its power to affect where your attention is going. So, we need more prayer, with attention to God and God guiding our attention, then discovering.

If ones are isolating with things they like . . . Jesus wants us to get into how God has us loving >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

The Bible says various things about how to relate with one another as God's children and how to relate with ones who are not God's children. You need to invest your time - - - your **attention** - - - in God's word, including about how to relate with one another as His family. And spend time with Jesus people who are good examples of this. Feed on their example, enjoy the chips

JohnB445 said:

Could a Christian also ever be involved in the gambling business?

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There is always risk in loving. But with God so creative we can create His good in spite of however others do us wrong . . . even using what anti-love people do - - - using their evil to bring about God's all-loving results. Have you read and fed on how God did this with Joseph? > this is in Genesis 37-50.

JohnB445 said:

Although some people move on, for others it destroys lives and they wished they never gambled. or is gambling seen as a legitimate business just like farmers?

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We could have quite a debate about this. You could say gambling ruins lives, and I could argue that farmers produce food which people abuse so they are overweight and dying of diabetes and heart attacks. But I rule in favor of what Delvianna and Tim have said > my argument might be clever . . . but not really relevant!!

Among other things > it can be the farmer has learned many skills and has been providing for his family and bringing up his children to have character and the right kind of work ethic and to know how to love and relate as family. There is much investment, so more than gaining money, in so laboring. I suspect that a gambling business might not be so useable, like farming can be. Where would your children be, what would they be learning??

You can grow in Jesus to discover what God can do with you. What you can think about now can evaporate as you mature with . . . us.

probinson said:

Sure there is. "In response to" is an indication of a catalyst for the action.

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That's not a conditional. "I'm doing X because of Y" is an explanation, not a condition. If you wanted to make it conditional, you would say "I will do X if they do Y."

Vambram said:

My culture is not making sad people.

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Sorry. I can't hear you all the way down there at 23rd place United States. You may need to explain yourself a bit more....

Vambram said:

If Americans are sad, then I suggest that they turn to my Lord and Savior. Only the Lord Jesus Christ is the One who can give everlasting joy and happiness and peace.

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LOL! Do you know how far from Christian Scandanavian countries are?

Listen I absolutely have joy and peace in my faith. I'm blessed with happiness too. But Americans are sad because their CULTURE is makes them sad. American Christians can ONLY get happiness in their faith (though I think a lot also have a false sense of superiority that gives them a lot of job too...as with some on the left as well).

The PROFOUND hyper individuality and the severe discoupling of connection and communities. The distrust sown through the media...left and right... The politicians and talking heads that ACTIVELY BENEFIT.

Watched an interesting short videos on how oligarchies need to sow chaos to ensure their survival. I don't know (or really care) enough to know if that is an actual feature of oligarchies but I'm pretty sure that how the US functions and there are a LOT of people stirring up chaos if you ask me (and others).

Dan Perez said:

AND since you say every person is BORN. through a WATER SAC is BORN. of WATER. you must a BIBLE VERSE , right !!

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Common sense and the prior citing should do

Dan Perez said:

And just asking are you saved BORN AGAIN. by the OLD TESTAMENT , and do you. believe that to be TRUE ??

dan p

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I believe every Word of God applies to everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

essentialsaltes said:

There is no conditional used.

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Sure there is. "In response to" is an indication of a catalyst for the action.

essentialsaltes said:

Texas did indeed undergo a redistricting process, which is one of the declarations in the earlier part of the proposition.

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It's stated right there in section 4B. But if Texas' gerrymandering efforts are halted, there's no longer anything to "respond" to.

essentialsaltes said:

In response to that, we have proposed this action. Yea or nay.

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In response to what? In response to Texas gerrymandering the election in their favor. If they can't do that, then this action isn't necessary, at least according to the language of the proposition.

essentialsaltes said:

IANAL either, but I don't think this has legs.

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Of course, all of this is moot until we hear rom SCOTUS on Texas. If Texas is permitted to move forward with their gerrymandered maps, then Californians can feel justified in their own gerrymandering.

I really hope SCOTUS stops the Texas gerrymandering. It will simultaneously hurt the Republican efforts to gerrymander the election in their favor while exposing the hypocrisy of Democrats who say they don't want it.

Righteousness obtained thru FAITH
Rom 3:22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,


Justified thru FAITH
23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith.


Saved thru FAITH
Rom 5:
1 Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].

9 Therefore, since we have now been justified [declared free of the guilt of sin] by His blood, [how much more certain is it that] we will be saved from the wrath of God through Him.


Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].


FAITH placed in Jesus sin atoning work unlocks salvations door
Rom 10:
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word [the message, the basis] of faith which we preach—

9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.