Jerry N. said:

Egyptian mythology probably doesn’t help much. However, I believe that we have three parts—body, soul, and spirit. The spirit is the spark of life, and the soul is our individuality. It seems that animals only have two parts, body and spirit, but one can’t doubt that animals have individual personalities. Maybe the spirit and soul are one, like many people believe. In spiritual death, the spirit and soul would return to God and “reused” for other creatures. It might be silly, but I can see that it might make some sense. Spiritual death would then be the destruction of the personality and the spirit of life would return to God, but He doesn’t need it. Anyhow, spiritual death might be more complex than we think. I appreciate the large texts, because my eyes are not great, but I wonder why.

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Well it does actually since the same people wrote it. They wrote the Hindu, Norse and American religions, too.

Desk trauma said:

Too long being what? Months, years? Also, not being Israelis what’s our involvement ?

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A day or two maybe. Not months. this is a situation where all the players there have agreed to this. So taking Hamas out won't be met with enflaming the middle east. So, if they think they can sway Hamas, sure give them a few days. But no more

ViaCrucis said:

It's not the Democrats. It's the Republicans.

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Are these Republicans in the room with you right now?

Richard T said:

Tithing in the NT is just a number not a command. The NT way is give liberally and get liberally, give sparingly and get sparingly. Cut yourself some slack. If you add in depreciation for the vehicle it sounds like you are losing money. For an early agrarian society, the farmers did not have much expenses. I imagine they kept seeds from their older crops and did not tithe that portion. Tithing too is over 20% because there were special tithes in the OT. I hope you are not under the law or condemn yourself. Jesus loves you, give what you can but expect God to give you a better job. I pray its above your expectations.

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No, just wondering if there were any real guidelines I was missing... And in many ways yes I am going backwards considering depreciation of the car...

I knew the repairs were coming for a while, CV halfshaft had a torn boot, nobody does just the boots anymore they do the whole shaft, control arms since the bushings and ball joints are now part of the control arm instead of replaceable components. and rear brakes plus a 4 wheel alignment hit me for 3K... This is in 4 weeks of working basically 12 hour days when the car is not in the shop...

Hentenza said:

Nothing here proves that the Law was given before Moses. Keeping the way of the lord was not even what saved Abraham but only his faith saved him (Rom. 4:2-4).

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Not Moses law no. Noachide? Yes. Abraham was considered a Noachide. Why would he not have been.

BCP1928 said:

That's the point. Each of those was a unique case. Each was controversial in its day, and everybody understood that using the military for domestic law enforcement was fraught with dangerous implications. Now we are talking, not about these cases, but about Portland.

And no, we are probably not allowed to talk about it here. The President's memo of 9/25 defines any criticism of America, Capitalism or Christianity as evidence of terrorist affiliation.

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If every case in law is unique, then decisions wouldn't often be based on precedence. Either a president can order troops into a city or state to put down insurrection; enforce the law; or to preserve order or a president cannot.

Whether or not we can discuss that presidents in the past have done so depends more on what's allowed on CF. I guess we'll find out.

Desk trauma said:

Death cults are not known for being “swayed” by pressure.

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Well, let them try for a bit,,,,,Just not to long. It seems it always turns to something else.

ralliann said:

He said to Noah
120 years waiting while the ark was built before destruction Came
Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
He said of Abraham
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

The law 400 years later, waiting for the fullness of sin of the Amorites.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

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Nothing here proves that the Law was given before Moses. Keeping the way of the lord was not even what saved Abraham but only his faith saved him (Rom. 4:2-4).

zippy2006 said:

That's a bit like pointing to a shooting and ignoring the fact that it was done in self defense. Or pointing to "theft" and ignoring the fact that it was the judge fining a thief.

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And now you're reaching.

Why is it necessary to call someone a fascist in the process of defending yourself from being called a fascist?

Do you care to address the rest of my post, btw? As I said, even if we discount the time he called Harris a fascist when addressing the fact that she had called him one, that only accounts for one of my examples - and (afaik) at least a couple of the other ones were from well before she did so.

The fundamental principles of western democracy are threatened as the lines are blurred

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Hentenza said:

But the law did not come until 430 years after Abraham (Gal. 3:17) so I’m still not sure what you are trying to say. I’m not trying to be dense but just want to reply to you properly.

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He said to Noah
120 years waiting while the ark was built before destruction Came
Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
He said of Abraham
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

The law 400 years later, waiting for the fullness of sin of the Amorites.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Another conservative TrumpFan didn’t read his own article:

zippy2006 said:

According to the sophistic reasoning you have given with regard to rape, someone could simply say, "I believe that lying is always wrong, but lying is speech in the context of deception, and is therefore contextual.

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Lying is not always wrong. Relative to some contexts it is acceptable and relative to others it is not.

zippy2006 said:

Therefore I am not a moral absolutist."

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Correct.

zippy2006 said:

Your eloquence is matched only by your intelligence.

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Why, shucks.

Carl Emerson said:

Casual conversations with folks at one of our bible colleges.

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Which question is that in answer to?

Carl Emerson said:

Also I was supporting a Christian Psychiatrist who wrote a paper on this subject and was deregistered for a period.

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Deregistered as a psychiatrist? What was the basis of the paper?

ralliann said:

Well God brought wrath on Soddom and Gomorrha.

Ge 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Ge 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Ge 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.


It depends on how you read this..

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Abraham finally get God down to ten righteous to spare the city.
We know only Lot and his daughters were saved.

What was the great cry? Great can mean "many". Crying to God. Was it the blood of the righteous that had been shed? That only 3 were left?

Ge 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground. {blood: Heb. bloods }

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. {covenant: or, testament }

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But the law did not come until 430 years after Abraham (Gal. 3:17) so I’m still not sure what you are trying to say. I’m not trying to be dense but just want to reply to you properly.

You will have to use science and not The Bible, to get most atheist to believe in God. So God would have to be proven scientifically, plus many atheist come from a religious background.

Desk trauma said:

Israel is the top military and only nuclear power in the region, there’s no realistic scenario where they’re destroyed.

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If everyone else agreed, and only Hamas disagreed, why not? The deal was Hamas out, and another government in. Take Hamas out. The pressure from all the others could sway Hamas, so there might be some time for that to take. But if not take them out.

Fervent said:

Who concluded that? What are their credentials? And how did they come to their conclusions?

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Casual conversations with folks at one of our bible colleges.

Also I was supporting a Christian Psychiatrist who wrote a paper on this subject and was deregistered for a period.

Ophiolite said:

@stevevw, it's provenance not providence. Despite being implicitly corrected on this by one or more posters, you have persisted in the error. It's further evidence that you do not read, or rarely understand the multiple refutations your posts have received. Detail seems to go over your head. The only providence related to this thread is its total absence in warning me how much ill argued material you would present.

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His posts make as much sense as this.

Hentenza said:

Ok so then explain what your argument is. I don’t see anything in your post that supports the law being in effect prior to Moses so please clarify. Thanks.

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Well God brought wrath on Soddom and Gomorrha.

Ge 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Ge 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Ge 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.


It depends on how you read this..

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Abraham finally get God down to ten righteous to spare the city.
We know only Lot and his daughters were saved.

What was the great cry? Great can mean "many". Crying to God. Was it the blood of the righteous that had been shed? That only 3 were left?

Ge 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground. {blood: Heb. bloods }
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. {covenant: or, testament }

Gods law is holy, just, and good. He judges the wicked. A very good thing.

BCP1928 said:

Bah! It's the party of elitist neoliberals.

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You misspelled "neofascists".

BCP1928 said:

They were just using Antifa and the BLM--much as the Republican party uses the Christian Right.

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Even if I agreed with this, do you not realize it's a compliment to Republicans?

zippy2006 said:

@Bradskii - So you use a label, "absolute morality," in order to try to label and disparage a certain moral view.

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Well...yes. It's kinda hard to reject what people describe as absolute morality without referring to...what they mean by absolute morality.

zippy2006 said:

Yet it turns out that on your definition of absolute morality you yourself are a moral absolutist.

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No, that's what you have claimed. I have given examples of making a decision on a moral matter which was entirely relative to the context. It really can't be described as anything other than an example of a relative morality. But you have called it an example of absolute morality. Which is plainly ridiculous. Do I have to describe what the difference is to you?

Lying is always wrong: That's absolute morality.
Lying is right or wrong depending on the context: That's relative morality.

I gave examples of the second, where lying was determined to be right or wrong relative to the context. And you have said that they are examples of the first.

zippy2006 said:

Most people like yourself who are trying to declare victory without doing anything prefer to leave the term undefined to avoid this sort of foot-shooting.

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It's been defined umpteen times.

zippy2006 said:

How frightening it must have been to find out that, according to your own definition of moral absolutism, you yourself are one of the dreaded moral absolutists!

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I should put a little sigh emoticon in at this point.

RamiC said:

You have not provided any science based explanation as to what the mind is yet, and without any objective definition of "normal" there is no telling what functional verses dysfunctional is.

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This is nonsense, I stated what science recognizes as the mind in its close association with brain structures.

RamiC said:

If it is about the brain, it is neurology, but you are saying this association exists without an answer regarding what the "mind" that is associated with the brain is. A brain scan can show proof of strong emotion, we know this can also be seen in the form of chemical changes to the blood, but that does not make the shock of bereavement and experience of grief a brain dysfunction that needs to be called a "disease" and cured with a pill. So what I am saying is that brain activity is our lives on earth being lived, that is the scientific, medical, definition of life.

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As far as science is concerned, the brain and mind are synonymous. Because science only deals with empirical questions, not introspective ones.

RamiC said:

There is a link in my post, to the article I was quoting, I provided my source.

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You seem to be misunderstanding what it's saying there, because it's stating that these mental illnesses are often missed and given different diagnoses.

RamiC said:

Oh I have questions about the success rates of treating many conditions that are called "mental health problems" yes. I just do not want anybody reading this thread to do anything too dangerous or sudden because of it. The fact that it is dangerous to suddenly stop taking mental health medication is known, the risk applies regardless of the poor rates of accurate diagnosis, inadequate pathology, the harm done by medicalising human emotional responses to life events, and the low rates of actually being able to cure any mental health condition (that is by comparison to Dr's ability to actually define, identify conditions, and provide cures in other medical specialties).

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Improving awareness of the associated symptoms of various mental health conditions among general practitioners to improve accurate diagnoses is far removed from what you seem to be trying to argue. From what I can gather, you're speaking on things which you have little personal experience and are misunderstanding studiies conclusions through deceptive quotation.

RamiC said:

I care deeply about the entirely real sufferring, hence my concerns about the situation as it presently is, and my interest in the possibilties for accurate knowledge and effective solutions. I do not believe that all human suffering has to be "medical", physiological, or even identifiable by scientific methods to be absolutely real. There is a difference between believing that psychology and psychiatry are getting everything right, and caring about the increasing and already great amounts of mind related suffering people are clearly experiencing. As a society, I believe we must start defeating the high rates of mental and emotional struggles that are happening, I just do not see enough objective evidence that labels and psychoactive drugs are a safe or effective way to acheive that in a lot of cases.

Please note - to all who have mental health problems - do not suddenly stop taking your medication, if you wish to cease taking it, get proffessional help, I believe your suffering is real, and I do not mean that you just lack faith. Whatever you are living with or in, Jesus cares.

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SabbathBlessings said:

So God’s commandments are not His laws. And His laws are what you say they are not what He said, who personally wrote them and are under His mercy seat.

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There was no God given law in the garden other than not eating from the tree of life. Do you have evidence to the contrary?