Well, first off; Scripture declares that those who become believers are elect from the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1)
Scripture also declares that "the wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they be born." (Psalm 58:3)

Thus redemption (or condemnation for that matter) is not relevant to how old one is.

The consequences of the fall and being "dead in trespass and sin" though is not the same thing as personally committing sin. This is why Romans 9:11 speaks of "the children not having done good or evil that the purpose of God according to election may stand."

And yes it is true that one is not held accountable to something they don't "know". Although what is "known" isn't necessarily determinant on intellectual understanding as it relates to the soul and one's position before God. (IE; this is an aspect of our existence as "created in God's image" that we don't really understand.) What does the soul "know" even at the point the mind can not comprehend? (Again, a mystery we don't understand.)

Thus this makes the destiny of anyone between conception and intellectual understanding unknowable from the standpoint of what we in this life can observe. Despite Scripture clearly declares there are those who will never be redeemed regardless of how old they are when they die. (None of us know (nor can we) outside of "make your own calling and election sure" who the elect actually are.) Though we may recognize sanctification in people who are "post stage of regeneration".

Yea, redemption and condemnation are like unto "different operating systems". Redemption is predicated upon Christ providing substitutionary atonement in payment for an individual's sin. Yet "the law" meets out "the wages of sin" upon the unredeemed. And this is why "the law of love" (or rule of Christ) is not akin to the "law of sin and death" in contrary operation to the condemnation of the unregenerate. Their punishment is "the wages of sin" that they've "earned". (Two different "operating systems".)

HolyArmor said:

Really like the book of Sirach, made a video with my own commentary talking about some specific verses.

Youtube video here

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The book of Sirach is apocryphal, and not in the bible, yet the text describing the video says: "In this video, we explore Sirach 5:1–6, a powerful biblical warning against pride, overconfidence, and delaying repentance." (my emphasis).

Robin hood socialism doesn't work, because giving the government more power to steal from certain rich corporations but not others is not going to end well.

rather, what would work is to change back to a hard money standard, to reverse all of these problems:

AV1611VET said:

This video explains it, starting at 02:00 :

Login to view embedded media
To summarize it, life must have the following qualities:

1. Similar to others of its kind but not an exact duplicate. 5
2. Able to repair and duplicate itself. n/a
3. Able to adjust to changing environmental conditions. 5
4. An urge or drive toward self-fulfillment. 7

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He's heading is the right direction, but only got two out of the 8. Here's a recognised list of the characteristics:

1) Reproduction
2) Metabolism
3) Response to stimuli
4) Heredity
5) Adaptation through evolution
6) Homeostasis
7) Growth and development
8) Cellular organization

The question to ask now is how many of that 8 do you need before you can be classed as alive? All of them?

Fervent said:

What is the context that is supposed to change "who wants everyone to be saved and return to knowledge of the truth" into something other than desiring all to be saved?

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The larger context is the whole of scripture, in which we find that he made each for his purposes, which include those who he made, knowing they would end up in Hell. The nearer context is the whole of 1 Timothy and all of Paul's writings which focus much on the un-Jewish notion of God saving whomsoever he will, and the close context is the chapter 2 preceding and following verses in which Paul calls for prayer for all people, including even rulers and authorities (that the Jews wanted off their necks) in which he mentions himself being the apostle to the Gentiles. The focus of the context is exactly that Jesus is come for all people —not just the Jews.

Fervent said:

You presume that God cannot make free will possible, you think too little of God in your assessment.

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No. I presume that God has no interest in doing whatever silly self-contradictory conjurations humans come up with as though their thoughts represented a possible reality. I don't say that God can't make a rock too big for him to pick up. I say that it is a bogus notion.

Fervent said:

It's not confirmation bias, it's reality. Nor is it "circular' since its not 2 propositions dependent on one another, simply a fact that the determinist must exercise free will to make a denial of it.

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No, he only exercises choice.

Fervent said:

you don't seem to know what that word means.

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Which is why I asked you what YOU meant by it. But now, I see my guess was right. You think humans choose uncaused, even when you contradict it by claiming God gave us [libertarian] free will.

stevevw said:

I have been thinking about the current political claimte and how people are being cancelled and even killed for their views. Is street preaching or declaring the gospel in public now a dangerous occupation.

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Yes, it is the great falling away and the end times and I would definitely say this is the case, but it hasn't ever technically "not" been the case. They killed Stephen, they killed Paul, they killed Peter, they killed the prophets. Blessed are we when we are persecuted for righteousness sake (Matthew 5:10 - Matthew 5:11 - Matthew 5:12).

Delvianna said:

Yes and in some places, worse than others. Like, I wouldn't street preach in the middle of Tehran. But specifically to western countries, I think it's getting worse and you just don't know which person is going to listen to the spirit of Satan when he tells them to go kill the preacher. The more a society moves away from Christian values, the darker and more hard hearted that society becomes, which means you're going to see evil become more and more apparent. I think if you're going to street preach, trying to hold a 1 on 1 conversation would be wiser than taking a speaker and a microphone and screaming loudly.

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I agree with this in one sense, but not in total. I think God calls everyone to a different occupation. Paul was a street preacher, and at pentecost Peter was preaching in public and for that matter, to people who didn't even speak one language. I think God is making sure every single solitary person gets a chance to accept the free gift of salvation, and there won't really be any "I didn't hear about Christ" much going on at judgment day. (at least especially in the end times in the modern society for sure)

I think there are people who are meant for the calling of preaching in public. I've read many comments of street preacher videos where people gave testimonies that they were converted and some of them said they literally only heard the word "God" and something clicked. This is a random example, but there are obviously many different scenarios for each person.

Matthew 4:17 even says Christ "began to preach" and told them to repent. I don't know if this was technically "on the street" but I do know He was often found dining with sinners and he shouted out loud at the feast before His crucifixion.

I will say, I think Paul definitely done it on the street.. they beat the man everywhere he went and didn't meet a person he didn't tell about Christ, even his prison guards and soldiers holding him in chains.

Fervent said:

yeah, this is more in line with my experience as well. Street preachers have always been regarded more as a nuisance than being respected.

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So you wouldn't like Paul or Peter brother Fervent??? lol!

I don't know, maybe there is a different scenario you have envisioned than I do, but I mean they beat Paul a lot, so I don't think he always had a "captivated audience." lol (jus sayinn) Maybe you could even call him a "nuisance."

Same with Christ, except he was annoying people in the temple before they tried to throw Him off a cliff, so maybe that doesn't count as the dynamics of the situation are somewhat varied.

com7fy8 said:

Ones might hear one sentence, others a couple sentences, others might hear a little message. Each sentence could be a seed message, or in combination with other sentences it could form a message with more than one sentence.

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Exactly, just like the parable says, scattering seeds onto all kinds of soil or even rocky ground.

Only God knows where those seeds will grow and we are simply called to share, and I think some people have a gift of doing it more pronounced and publicly. Maybe it is a nuisance technically speaking, but people do accept Christ through it and pulling some from the fire (Jude 1:23) is no small matter! One soul saved starts a worship party in Heaven (Luke 15:10).

com7fy8 said:

God's ways are "past finding out," we have in Romans 11:33.

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This. I think this is exactly it. I used to think street preaching was kind of a waste of time, but I've seen it bear fruit and a lot of it.

The catch to it all, I believe, is how much we are personally willing to sacrifice and what we are capable of. Our gifts, our talents, who we are and what our abilities are to offer sacrifices to God as thanks to Him for the free gift of salvation of our souls. Do some pay the high price of suffering, mockery, or death? Yes. But I think those that are called (and chosen!) are signing up for what they know is to come with the package (2 Timothy 3:12 - John 15:18).

I don't know if I could street preach, but I have more respect and admiration for those that are doing it now than I did when I was younger. I used to believe they were nagging people who didn't want to hear about Christ, and they don't. But they have zero hope at all of escaping the judgment, the great "Day of the Lord" described where men are mortified and Hell-bound in line to be judged by The Almighty without the very thing they are not wanting to hear.

Planting seeds is, in my overkillingly (yes I coined a new word) analyzed opinion, always worth it even if it is annoying people. I just don't think it is meant for everyone to do. Some people do better evangelizing and "preaching" in one on one conversations. I personally have done better that way, though I sometimes dream of expanding my horizons.

“If Jesus Christ be God and died for me, then no sacrifice can be too great for me to make for Him.”​

-C.T. Studd

Apple Sky said:

I disagree, rob is no fraud or liar.

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But it has just been explained to you how Rob's kit is based on falsehood. It's no good just saying that he is not a fraud. You need to tell us how you think his kit works accurately in view of what has been explained here about defraction.

Apple Sky said:

Here they are, they maybe old, so some of them may not work.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingro... https://www.cia.gov/library/readingro... https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca... https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca... https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca... https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca... https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/p... https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca... https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/p..

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The first link takes me to a site that mentions:

"Nixon and the People’s Republic of China: CIA’s Support of the Historic 1972 Presidential Trip"
"Harry Truman was the first U.S. president to receive a daily intelligence digest. At his direction, the Daily Summary began production in February 1946, and continued until February 1951. "
"The new Kennedy Administration confronted a full array of international issues in 1961."
"Aerial intelligence collection platforms have played a critical role in US national security from the earliest beginnings of aviation."
"The Collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe".

Nothing at all about what Russia knew or didn't know about the shape of the earth in 1948.

The second link takes me to exactly the same page as the first.

The third link takes me to a page headed, "Calculation of Wind Compensation for Launching of Unguided Rockets."

The fourth link takes me to a page with the title: "A method for reducing the sensitivity of optimal nonlinear systems to parameter uncertainty"

The fifth link page is headed: "Determination of angles of attack and sideslip from radar data and a roll-stabilized platform"

The sixth link has the heading: "Investigation of aircraft landing in variable wind fields"

Link seven brings up an error message: "404 The cosmic object you were looking for has disappeared beyond the event horizon."

The eighth link is headed: "Flight testing a V/STOL aircraft to identify a full-envelope aerodynamic model."

The ninth link brings up the same error message as link seven.

So out of the 9 links not a single one even mentions what Russia knew bout he earth's shape in 1948.

Guojing said:

So James did not get your memo during Acts 21:18-25?

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You do not get it do you. Paul saw the cross as the end of the old covenant. You do not. Sad!

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

RileyG said:

He hasn’t been active on here for several years.

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Thanks. I was hoping he had come back here.

Zceptre said:

This is about as clear as mud. lol

Are you saying babies go to Hell or Heaven man, come on, fess up your personal conclusion.

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If you're looking for a blanket statement, here you go: God can (and will) do as he pleases.

Each baby is another individual, that God deals with according to his purposes.

If you want me to 'admit' that it is possible that some babies go to hell, ok. I insist that it is possible, until someone can demonstrate to my satisfaction that babies are born innocent, without the inherent corruption endemic to the rest of us.

Too often the dynamic from which people pose their questions or make their statements on this matter, seem to indicate that God has no particular plans for babies, unborn or otherwise. Well, if someone dies, it was by God's will, and if someone lives, it was by God's will. The same is true concerning babies, all of whom are his creation, and not their own, any more than we own ourselves. They were conceived and grew according to HIS purposes. If anybody—baby or otherwise—goes to Hell, it is according to God's justice; if the baby is indeed innocent, God is just, any punishment is meet for the crime. If anybody—baby or otherwise—goes to Heaven, it is by the mercy of God.

Whether they die before birth, or live to die after birth, or to die at any particular later point in life, they will die, and that, when God says so, and not until he says so, and it will be so for his purposes. Whether upon dying they go to Heaven or to Hell, is also according to God's say-so and for his reasons.

Clear enough?

Fisherking said:

Rev.2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write;

Rev. 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write;

We see 7 Churches named because 7 in God lingo means Divine Completion. Don't tell me you profess to understand prophesy but do not understand what numbers represent in God lingo !! The reason John is told in Rev. 1 this is Jesus was dividing these time frames of prophesy up.

Rev. 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev. 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen(Jesus in all his Glory), and the things which are(Church Age), and the things which shall be hereafter(After the Church Age in Rev. 2 & 3 we see the Pre Trib. Rapture in Rev. 4:1 everything else is HEREAFTER the Church Age)

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me(Last Trump HINT, its the Rapture and the Last Trump of the Feast of Trumps ENDS the Harvest Season/Church Age); which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (After the Church Age)

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne

It astounds me when people can not grasp the obvious, all because they have a pre set idea planted from youth, or they learned it from other men, and thus God's truths get blocked out.

See above, in Rev. 4:1

Jesus has been to earth 1000's of times, he was with Abraham and Daniel, he REVISTED in John 20 after first telling Mary to TOUCH ME NOT, for I have not yet ascended to the Father [to offer the sacrifice which HER TOUCHING would have defiled[. Then a few verses later he tells Doubting Thomas to touch hi wounds ad brought back a gift for his bride, the Holy Spirit.

The 2nd coming is a misnomer by you guys. Its really talking about Two ADVENTS, Jesus comes as the meekly Lamb led to slaughter and then as the Lion King of Judah, to rule over mankind for 1000 years. Anyone that thinks Jesus only visits this earth twice just doesn't read very well.

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Many on here were deceived by Pretrib growing up, but our eyes have been opened to its folly. You cannot even prove one single claim. You add unto the scriptural text. This is all man-made theories. There is no substance to it. That is because you do not have Scripture to support Pretrib. There is no proof-text in Scripture - that is why you twist a text like Revelation 4.

Revelation 4:1-2 has absolutely nothing to do with a secret rapture. In fact, note what it actually says and how it compares to similarly worded passages in Revelation. Remember, the safest way to understand Scripture is to compare Scripture with Scripture.

Revelation 4:1-2 commences, “After this (speaking of his supernatural encounter with Christ on Patmos) I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.”

There is no allusion here of the Lord descending in the clouds from heaven, there is no mention of the Church, we don’t see the saints rising to meet Him, there is no mention of the dead in Christ being resurrected and those who are alive and remain being caught up, there is no meeting Jesus in the air. It is all an elaborate hoax formulated by men which enjoys no biblical basis for their doctrine.

Yarddog said:

As usual, people just don't understand just what Socialism is. They love many socialist programs, such as the military, police, border patrol, schools, libraries, highway systems, dams, bridges, space program, etc...

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And you don't understand what it is either.

Yarddog said:

but hate corporate welfare, international welfare, social welfare, medicade, etc...

What we need to do is look at all nations that have a form of Socialism in some manner. There are bad countries such as Venezuela, and good countries such as Iceland. We should learn to make our country better, not worse.

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Paying taxes for services is not socialism

Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. {ordained: or, ordered }
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 ¶ Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Yarddog said:

Corruption is the main problem with any form of government.

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This why socialism is terrible. It simply puts all our money in the control of a select few. The few who did not earn it. It appeals to a covetous desire.

CelticRebel said:

Anybody heard from him lately?

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He hasn’t been active on here for several years.

The 4 Visions of the Lord in Revelation.



The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.


Vision 1. CHRIST - Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 – 3)

This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.

`in His right hand He held 7 stars.`



Vision 2. CHRIST - HEIR. (Rev. 4 – 7)

This reveals the enthroned Son of Man as the Supreme Executor.

`in His right hand He held the 7 sealed book.`



Vision 3. CHRIST - MEDIATOR. (Rev. 8 – 13)

This reveals the exalted Son of Man as the Stately Mediator.

`in His hand is a sacred censor.`



Vision 4. CHRIST - JUDGE. (Rev. 14 – 22)

This reveals the entitled Son of Man as the Sublime Adjudicator.

`in His hand is a sharp sickle.`



To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are over three hundred & thirty references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons, & buildings of the Old Testament.

This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centred on one purpose and that is to reveal Christ to us in all His Glory.

Anybody heard from him lately?

Postvieww said:

Why would there be a warning for speaking a truth that is proudly and openly admitted by many democratic leaders in our government?

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That was basically what my response to the mod was. I was told to make a complaint.

perplexed said:

Why didn't the Biden administration embarrass Steve Bannon by leaking his connection to Epstein? He is a Trump ally.

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Gee, I dunno. Maybe President Biden had better things to do?

-- A2SG, there was a few other things on his plate, as I recall....

keras said:

Then who are the Israelites of God?

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keras, where in the bible are you getting that phrase "Israelites of God" ?

The term Israelites itself does not appear in the kjv bible.

The phrase "Israel of God" does appear in the kjv in Galatians 6:16.

I think the Jews who believe in Jesus, Paul is calling the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16.

Servus said:

Schumer could come right out and say they completely framed the guy, and it still wouldn't make any difference. They've had 'Trump is pure evil' drilled into their heads too much by now.

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There was also all that pesky evidence against Trump that actually convinced the courts in several different trials that he was guilty. Let's not forget that.

-- A2SG, as Trump supporters so often are wont to do.....

Life did not have a beginning, as God did not have a beginning.

Aldebaran said:

Once we stop subsidizing the health insurance companies, costs can go down. But Schumer wants the insurance companies to have our money so badly that he shut the government down to (fail to) make that happen.

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While I agree that we shouldn't be supporting the for-profit health insurance industry, and the billions of dollars the industry rakes in every year in profit greatly contributes to the rising cost of health care, the fact remains: Americans get their health care through that same health insurance industry. If there were a better way to obtain health care, say through a single payer system like many other nations have, that would be far more cost effective and a lot more comprehensive, I'd fully support it.

But we're not getting one any time soon. Because of those billions of dollars in profit.

Until that changes, if people want health care, insurance companies will get their money.

-- A2SG, the GOP certainly hasn't offered any alternatives to that idea....do you have any?