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bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:21:02-0500

A New Dawn said:
You must seem to feel you have a lock on the ordo salutis, but the truth is, it all happens in the blink of an eye and nobody knows the precise order that God works in. I believe that all in the split second that God saves us, He grants saving faith and, BAM, the work is done. Since there is no me needing to accept or deny it, there is no conflict there.

One of the burning questions is when God decided to save His people. Did He do it before the foundation of the world, at the instant of their baptism in water, when they chose to believe the Gospel, or some other time and place?

7thKeeper · 2025-10-07T23:20:33-0500

Vambram said:
You have not provided anything from successful non-partisan universities or from reputable government agencies.

I know you're trying to imitate Trump, but it's just funny in a non-funny way to try to implicate that neither of those institutions aren't exactly what you asked for. You just don't like the data

A2SG · 2025-10-07T23:18:24-0500

Pommer said:
If we just make an exception for Trump, this one time, he’ll fix it so we’ll never have to go down this road again! Somehow.

Sure. I mean, if you can't trust a guy convicted of felony fraud 34 times, who can you trust?

-- A2SG, gotta have some standards.....

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:18:09-0500

Soyeong said:
In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God’s law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are submitting to by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation. So yes, this is the faith that upholds God’s law and we are justified by.

In what sense do you understand "upholding God's Law" to mean? Does it mean obedience to all of God's commandments in the Bible?

rjs330 · 2025-10-07T23:17:12-0500

NxNW said:
There is no leftist violence to speak of.

Portland is peaceful. Protesters are dangling donuts in front of ICE for fun.

They call it ICE fishing.

Boy, what a violent scene.

View attachment 371237

Thats a good one, but thats not ICE. And yes there is leftist violence. Don't try to gaslight us on that.

The city is peaceful. The area around the ICE facility is not. Especially at night.

Pommer · 2025-10-07T23:16:05-0500

camille70 said:
500 hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics are now closing or at risk of closure because of the Republican bill that guts health care funding, per Protect Our Care.

Hospital Crisis Watch: Senator Murphy and Protect Our Care Mark Grim Milestone of 500 Providers at Risk of Closing or Closed Due to GOP Health Care Crisis — Protect Our Care

Protect Our Care’s Hospital Crisis Watch Map Now Shows 500 Health Care Providers at Risk of Closing Due to the GOP Health Care Crisis Washington, D.C. — Protect Our Care’s...

www.protectourcare.org

Map:

Hospital Crisis Watch — Protect Our Care

www.protectourcare.org

The nice thing about injecting chaos into a system is the praise you get when you fix what you broke.

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:15:31-0500

As I just posted in the Limited Vs. Unlimited Thread -

The simple reality is that all Christians believe in limited atonement unless they believe in universal salvation for all mankind, in which case, they would not be welcome on this board.

There are monergists who believe, as Augustine did, that God has chosen His elect from the foundation of the world such that the salvation of those elect was purchased by the blood of His son, Jesus Christ, on the cross of Calvary.

Then there are syncretists who believe, as the Catholic Church does, that the atonement of Jesus Christ is secured by any of a number of human responsibilities. The atonement is strictly limited to those who conform to God's requirements and cannot be applied in a universal sense to all of mankind.

Most folks, however, disagree with one or the other position, finding various faults with them. The crux of the argument is that it simply is not at all fair for God to show favoritism, either in choosing His people according to His own will, or by placing people in the untenable position of having to conform to some form of belief or behavior which will, in the process, leave the rest of humanity in a state of total and eternal damnation. Thus, the argument is attempted that the atonement of Jesus Christ is, indeed, for all of mankind, but . . . . . . the atonement will not result in the salvation of all mankind.

Pommer · 2025-10-07T23:14:41-0500

A2SG said:
Hmm...not paying people who worked for you. On brand for Trump.

-- A2SG, he's consistent, gotta give him that....

If we just make an exception for Trump, this one time, he’ll fix it so we’ll never have to go down this road again! Somehow.

Pommer · 2025-10-07T23:13:05-0500

mark46 said:
???

What business should the House be doing with so many furloughed (probably including staff)?

The best place for House members is in their districts listening to their voters (ready to come back on 48-hour notice).

How are they going to be able to vote once a deal is made? Why insert a unnecessary delay?

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:13:04-0500

fli said:
The verses were not meant to explain loss of salvation. Loss of salvation, in the post #72, you do not accept that in 2 Peter 2: 1 it clearly states that the false teachers were bought, redeemed, by Jesus. You cite no supporting scriptures to justify your statement that the false teachers were once redeemed. You just say one scripture does not prove that they, the false teachers, were redeemed.

Since you haven't explained why you do not accept that Christians can get into heaven when they are put to sleep under chastisement the first time Jesus chastises them. That is the path for a no works salvation. What do you disagree with on my explanation of that? I will again post the scriptures that explain God's path to a no works salvation.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. NKJV

Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. NKJV

Luke 14:27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. NKJV

First Jesus does expect us to put to sleep the sins of the flesh, with His help.

As it has been explained to me bearing our cross is to put to death our self. Jesus made it plain that we are to put to death our sins, with His help, if we are to be His. Jesus has not promised us a long physical, rich or easy life on earth. He promised a free eternal life in heaven. Free because He paid the price.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

This is very early in the church history. In Acts 18 we read God said that there were many of His people in Corinth. In chapter 1 of 1 Corinthians Paul states quit clearly that the church was well blessed in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Because the events in verses 27 through 32, happened very early in the Corinthian Church history most, if not all, the people are being chastised for the first time. In other words, they did not become drunks after being saved. They were drunks prior to salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. NKJV

There were people in Corinth that could discern spirits. If a person was causing a disturbance, by drinking the wine and getting drunk, and did not have the Spirit of Jesus they would have asked them, at the very least, to abstain from taking the Lords supper. They probably would have ejected them from the church. If they were not Christian, they would be without the Spirit of Jesus and without being chastised by God.

As Paul writes in verse 30 some went to sleep, meaning they died and went to heaven, because they did not quit drinking.

If you will, please state your objections to why a Christian can, when chastised for the first time, die and go to heaven? Please cite verses to explain your position.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that those who fall away from faith, can never, ever, come to repentance again?

rjs330 · 2025-10-07T23:10:52-0500

RocksInMyHead said:
You tell me:
Login to view embedded media

Ive been watching the live feeds feom Portland. For rhe most part during the day its really not too bad. Once in a while some do stupid things, but generally its not concerning. At night though it does get crazy. I've watched a lot of stuff and its not just people mingling around with some signs on the sidewalk.

I certainly support people being able to use their first Ammendment rights to march peacefully and have their voices heard. Even Noem said that during her visit. But stuff I've seen isn't just that. They are extremely confrontational and will throw things besides sandwiches and ive seen fireworks being shot etc.

I would think any reasonable person would say thats unacceptable. Even the sandwich thrower is unacceptable and should be arrested for it. In my mind, it's not a felony, but it is an assault and would be in my state becauae most assault laws do not require injury, but any contact rhat is insulting or provoking. Minimally it would be disorderly conduct.

But throwing hard objects or shooting fireworks at them is not protesting. Thats assault.

They are also committing other offenses that violate state and city laws, but the Portland police are not interested in charging anyone for breaking those laws. That is also not acceptable.

mark46 · 2025-10-07T23:10:51-0500

essentialsaltes said:
Speaker Johnson could open the House for business, rather than extending their vacation.

???

What business should the House be doing with so many furloughed (probably including staff)?

The best place for House members is in their districts listening to their voters (ready to come back on 48-hour notice).

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:09:49-0500

d taylor said:
-

Blindness is now out and in full action in the churches around the world.

Ho hum, what else is new?

A2SG · 2025-10-07T23:09:48-0500

essentialsaltes said:
my hedging was not for nothing.

White House memo says furloughed workers might not get back pay
Axios first reported on the memo, which was later confirmed to POLITICO by administration officials in the White House and Office of Management and Budget. They were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly on the issue.

The memo appears to contravene the 2019 “Government Employee Fair Treatment Act,” signed by President Donald Trump during his first term after a partial shutdown that stretched over 35 days. And it paints a cloudy economic picture for the 750,000 federal workers currently under furlough.

The memo appears to contradict guidance from the Office of Personnel Management issued in September, which advises federal employees that “after the lapse in appropriations has ended, employees who were furloughed as the result of the lapse will receive retroactive pay for those furlough periods.”

BREAKING

Federal workers not entitled to back pay after shutdown, budget office claims
The top lawyer at the White House Office of Management and Budget argued that the law Congress passed and Trump signed guaranteeing back pay to furloughed workers in 2019 does no such thing, according to a new draft memo obtained by The Post.

Hmm...not paying people who worked for you. On brand for Trump.

-- A2SG, he's consistent, gotta give him that....

bbbbbbb · 2025-10-07T23:08:54-0500

The simple reality is that all Christians believe in limited atonement unless they believe in universal salvation for all mankind, in which case, they would not be welcome on this board.

There are monergists who believe, as Augustine did, that God has chosen His elect from the foundation of the world such that the salvation of those elect was purchased by the blood of His son, Jesus Christ, on the cross of Calvary.

Then there are syncretists who believe, as the Catholic Church does, that the atonement of Jesus Christ is secured by any of a number of human responsibilities. The atonement is strictly limited to those who conform to God's requirements and cannot be applied in a universal sense to all of mankind.

Most folks, however, disagree with one or the other position, finding various faults with them. The crux of the argument is that it simply is not at all fair for God to show favoritism, either in choosing His people according to His own will, or by placing people in the untenable position of having to conform to some form of belief or behavior which will, in the process, leave the rest of humanity in a state of total and eternal damnation. Thus, the argument is attempted that the atonement of Jesus Christ is, indeed, for all of mankind, but . . . . . . the atonement will not result in the salvation of all mankind.

Pommer · 2025-10-07T23:04:30-0500

Vambram said:
https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/ap-politics/ap-fbi-analyzed-phone-records-of-senators-as-part-of-trump-jan-6-probe-lawmakers-say/

FBI fires agents, dismantles corruption squad after probe unveils monitoring of GOP senators, Patel says

FBI Director Kash Patel said the bureau was already taking action after it was revealed that Republican lawmakers' communications were monitored.

www.foxnews.com

Jack Smith SPIED on GOP SENATORS. Kash Patel has fired the FBI agents who spied on US SENATORS.

<benderlaff.gif>>

The “evidence“ is congress (House & Senate) “fully cooperated” with investigation and now someone wants to complain about the committee doing the job that it was tasked to do?

That sounds pretty political and therefore probably not criminal.

Vambram · 2025-10-07T23:00:10-0500

Schumer's shutdown holds as Senate Dems block GOP bid to reopen government

Senate Majority Leader John Thune, R-S.D., needs eight Democrats to end the shutdown, but Senate Minority Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., insists President Trump must approve the deal first.

www.foxnews.com

GodDoesListen55 · 2025-10-07T23:00:10-0500

Violinist.

rambot · 2025-10-07T23:00:00-0500

MrMoe said:
View attachment 371235

I guess that means there can never be another fascist again.

Vambram · 2025-10-07T22:58:34-0500

eclipsenow said:
If winning a debate is vacuous assertions with no data or quotes from successful government agencies and universities, then you win

Enjoy your bedtime stories.

View attachment 371224

You have not provided anything from successful non-partisan universities or from reputable government agencies.

Nithavela · 2025-10-07T22:57:14-0500

Hvizsgyak said:
Global warming, do exactly what the scientists want.

What a horrible imagination.

Nithavela · 2025-10-07T22:56:56-0500

Say it aint so said:
One more time. "The number one goal in sentencing should be to protect society."

Shouldn't that result in everyone getting locked up for life without parole?

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White House memo says furloughed workers might not get back pay

Federal workers not entitled to back pay after shutdown, budget office claims