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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

I believe it is a matter of choice. I also believe that Jesus came and did fulfill (brought to an end) all of the law and brought to an end all of the prophecies concerning His coming. All mankind is now under the New and better Covenant that Jesus ratified with his own blood on Calvary. That is some of the good news we are to spread to the World. The good news is not that we are going to Hell if we do not keep a day according to what man conjures to be what is Holy.
If you are sinning the Law is for you.
Upvote 0

Lindsey Halligan, and the dog that ate the transcript.

Judge appears skeptical of Lindsey Halligan’s appointment as interim US attorney


At a James Comey / Leticia Jame motion hearing at federal court today, the Judge in anticipating of receiving the Grand Jury transcript that Lindsey Halligan neglected to provide the first time it was requested, came up at today's motion. The Judge noted despite the second request the transcript is still not there. In response the DOJ with Halilgan at the helm responded, one doesn't exist. And the reason why it didn't exist was because there was no court reporter there. I kid you not. In their motion defense the DOJ lawyer argued that DOJ Pam Bondi had reviewed the transcript in a signed statement.

""Justice Department attorney Henry Whitaker urged Currie to treat questions about Halligan’s appointment as, at most, a “paperwork error” and emphasized that Bondi had reviewed the grand jury materials and agreed to retroactively “ratify” Halligan’s actions, even if her initial appointment is deemed invalid.
But Currie said the missing component of the grand jury transcript called into question the sufficiency of Bondi’s review.
“It became obvious to me that the attorney general could not have reviewed those portions of the transcript presented by Ms. Halligan,” Currie said. The judge also questioned why Bondi signed a statement saying she had reviewed Halligan’s actions before the grand jury when transcripts of some of that presentation “did not exist.”
“She couldn’t have,” Currie said.""


I mean either someone or all of them are lying to the judge. Under any other presidency or congress these folks would have been hauled into congress to answer questions of incompetancy and/or fired. But this is the Trump admin where incompetance takes a back seat to loyalty.
I remember some prophecies that basically said God was going to basically call out corruption in America. Most ran with that thinking that many of the democrats would be shamed. It appears that this is happening but there will be a reckoning too I think for those on the right. It is almost as if two corrupt sides are destroying themselves. It also is a great lesson in discernment for the average American. Putting politicians on a pedestal is never a good idea. Let's get down to working on problems without the bickering. I think things will get bad enough that Americans will wake up and hold politicians more accountable. Perhaps I am too optimistic but I do pray God purges all those that are self serving from government.
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Chiropractics offends me

I have a lot of misaligned joints and crack them all the time. However, I know how to do it with the right amount of force and angle to get a ”damp” crack that stimulates synovial fluid production.

Seeing the commercials chiropractors make themselves is just painful. They seem to be giving way more force and angle than what the patients need. You can hear their joints weren’t ready for that manoeuvre.
I once Asked a D.O. who did manipulations what the difference was between him and a chiropractor. He told me he knew how to do the same things in a more gentler way. I like chiropractors as long as they are not too adamant in thinking they can heal most anything.
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B flat B♭

I'm just surprised that nobody has. :)
Obviously that's because they can't.
No one has come forward with touched up photos because they weren't touched up.
In the same way that no one has come forward to say, "I worked for NASA and here's how we faked the moon landings". Because they didn't.
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Does Daniel 9:24–27 support a dual 70-week fulfillment with a chiastic structure?

I’ve been studying Daniel 9:24–27 closely and created a detailed clause-by-clause chart of the prophecy, including Hebrew words, chiastic layers, and proposed historical and eschatological fulfillment. My translation emphasizes that the 70 weeks are “divided out” (נֶחְתַּךְ), and verse 25 mentions “the second sixty” (בַּשְּׁנַיִם שִׁשִּׁים), suggesting a second 70-week cycle beyond the first 70 fulfilled historically (457 BC – 33 AD).


══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Verse | Phrase / Clause | Hebrew Key Words | Chiastic Layer | Fulfillment / Date Marker
──────|----------------|-----------------|----------------|-------------------------
9:24 | There are divided out seventy weeks | נֶחְתַּךְ | A – Divine Purpose | Dual cycle: first 70 (457–33 BC), second 70 (1542–2032 CE)
9:24 | For your holy city | קָדְשְׁךָ | A | First 70: Jerusalem rebuilt 457–408 BC
9:24 | And your people's rebellion | עַמְּךָ | A | Second 70: Israel aligns with man of sin, 1967–2032 CE
9:24 | For the restraining of lawlessness | לְכַלֵּא חַטָּאת | A | Second 70: restraining the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2), 2025–2028.5 CE
9:24 | Marked out for the coming punishment of purging | עָוֹן | A | Second 70: end of tribulation / Day of the Lord, ~2032 CE
9:24 | For the sealing of the vision and the prophet | וּלְחָתֵם חָזוֹן | A | Second 70: vision fully realized in eschatological age, ~2032 CE
9:24 | Unto the age of righteousness; anointed holy of holies | צֶדֶק, וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים | A | Second 70: age of righteousness begins, ~2032 CE
──────|----------------|-----------------|----------------|-------------------------
9:25 | From the word that went forth | מִן-מֹצָא דָבָר | B – Starting Points | First 70: 457 BC decree; Second 70: 1542 CE Suleiman rebuilds
9:25 | For the restoration and building of Jerusalem | לְהָשִׁיב וְלִבְנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִם | B | First 70: 457–408 BC walls rebuilt; Second 70: 1542 CE walls rebuilt
9:25 | For a ruler and an anointed one for Jerusalem | נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַ | B | First 70: Ezra & Nehemiah; Second 70: typological “anointed ruler” / covenant leadership, 1967–2032 CE
9:25 | It shall take seven sevens to be built | שִׁבְעָה שִׁבְעִים | B | First 70: 49 years, 457–408 BC
9:25 | Returned at the second sixty | בַּשְּׁנַיִם שִׁשִּׁים | B | Second 70: 1967 CE, second 60th week, pivotal chiastic marker
9:25 | Anguish and diligence in streets | — | B | Both 70s: First 70 = post-rebuilding trials; Second 70 = tribulation, 2025–2032 CE
──────|----------------|-----------------|----------------|-------------------------
9:26 | Two and sixty weeks after | שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם | C – Pivot | First 70: Messiah cut off, 26–33 AD
9:26 | None of the Messiah will be cut off | וְאֵין לוֹ | C | First 70: preserved remnant of faithful Jews, 26–33 AD
9:26 | People of the ruler shall come like a flood | עַם-נָגִיד יָבוֹא בַּשֶּׁטֶף | C | Second 70: eschatological armies / enemies, 1967–2025 CE
9:26 | City and sanctuary destroyed | הָעִיר וְהַקֹּדֶשׁ יִשָּׁחְתּוּ | C | First 70: 70 AD temple destruction; Second 70: final judgment & abomination destruction, ~2032 CE
──────|----------------|-----------------|----------------|-------------------------
9:27 | He shall cause many of the covenant to prevail | וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים | D – Central Climax | Second 70: 2025 CE start of final 7-year week
9:27 | For the week and a half of one | וְחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ | D | Second 70: mid-week, 3½ yrs into final week, 2028.5 CE
9:27 | Upon offering and sacrifice he shall bring to end abominations | מִנְחָה וְזֶבַח … שִׁקּוּצִים | D | Second 70: eschatological cleansing of temple / people, 2025–2032 CE
9:27 | Until the one who makes desolate pours out what is decreed for consummation | שֹׁמֵם | D | Second 70: consummation / Day of the Lord, ~2032 CE
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Notes:
- Chiastic pattern: A–B–C–D–C’–B’–A’
- Hebrew keywords highlighted for structural clarity
- Second 60th week = 1967 CE pivotal marker
- Restraining lawlessness = 2 Thess 2 reference; final week = revealing of man of sin

Questions for the community:

1. Does the Hebrew wording and syntax provide linguistic support for two distinct 70-week cycles, rather than a single 490-year timeline?


2. Can the chiastic pattern (A–B–C–D–C’–B’–A’) be reasonably defended from a grammatical and syntactical standpoint?


3. Are there any objections from the Hebrew text itself (singular/plural forms, verb agreements, semantic scope) that might favor a single-cycle interpretation?



I’d love insights from scholars or practitioners experienced in Biblical Hebrew, Daniel studies, or eschatological prophecy analysis.


---
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
DANIEL 9:24–27 DUAL 70-WEEK CHIASM
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
CHIASTIC LAYER: A B C D

FIRST 70 WEEKS — HISTORICAL FULFILLMENT
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
457 BC 408 BC 26 AD 33 AD 70 AD
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
Word goes 7 weeks Messiah Messiah cut Temple
forth: decree (49 yrs) appears off (וְאֵין לוֹ) destroyed
to rebuild Built walls (נָגִיד/ People of City & Sanctuary
Jerusalem /city מָשִׁיחַ) the ruler destroyed
(מִן-מֹצָא completed rejected (הָעִיר וְהַקֹּדֶשׁ)
דָבָר, בִּירוּשָׁלִם) Messiah)
נָגִיד וּמָשִׁיחַ)

Verse refs: 9:24–26

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
SECOND 70 WEEKS — MODERN / ESCHATOLOGICAL FULFILLMENT
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
1542 CE 1967 CE 2025 CE 2028.5 CE 2032 CE
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
Word goes Second 60th Start final Midpoint of Consummation
forth: Suleiman week marker 7-year week week, half- / Day of Lord
rebuilt walls (בַּשְּׁנַיִם Many of the week (וַחֲצִי ends / holy
of Jerusalem שִׁשִּׁים) covenant הַשָּׁבוּעַ) place anointed
(מִן-מֹצָא prevail (וְהִגְבִּיר)
דָבָר)

Abominations cease (שִׁקּוּצִים)
Until the one who makes desolate pours out decree (שֹׁמֵם)

Verse refs: 9:24–27
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
CHIASTIC STRUCTURE KEY:

A — Holy City / People’s Rebellion (v.24)
B — Starting points / restoration (v.25)
C — Messiah cut off / people of ruler (v.26)
D — Many of covenant prevail / final week & half-week / cleansing (v.27)
C’ — Mirror of C: eschatological “people of ruler” & destruction
B’ — Mirror of B: second 60th week / Jerusalem returned
A’ — Mirror of A: consummation / sealing up / age of righteousness
══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════

Dear brother in Christ,

Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful, diligent, and deeply researched study of Daniel 9:24–27. I truly appreciate the level of devotion and intellectual honesty that went into your analysis. Daniel 9 is one of the richest and most debated prophetic passages, and your attempt to trace linguistic, structural, and historical elements is commendable.
Let me offer a positive, encouraging response, while also providing a few biblical clarifications that may strengthen your study where needed.

1. Does Daniel 9 support a dual 70-week fulfillment?

A constructive and biblical “Yes but with caution.”

There is room within the prophetic genre for dual-layer fulfillment (what scholars call prophetic telescoping or typological fulfillment).
The Hebrew verb נֶחְתַּךְ (neḥtakh, “decreed / cut out / divided out”) in 9:24 can linguistically allow for a “set-apart period” without specifying strict limitation to a single cycle.
In Scripture, God sometimes applies a single prophetic pattern twice:
  • Day of the Lord, "historical (Isa 13) and eschatological (Joel 2–3)."
  • Abomination of Desolation, "Antiochus IV (Dan 11), Roman destruction (Matt 24), and an end-time antichristic pattern."
  • Temple imagery, "physical, spiritual, and eschatological (Ezek 40–48; Rev 21–22)."
So a dual 70-week structure is not impossible within biblical theology.

However…

The Hebrew text does not explicitly state “two distinct 70-week cycles.”
Your view remains interpretive, not grammatical necessity.
Still, you are right that the text invites deep structural exploration.

2. Chiastic structure (A–B–C–D–C′–B′–A′): Is it defensible?

Yes, chiasm is very common in Hebrew literature, especially prophetic and poetic texts.
Examples:
  • Psalm 1
  • Daniel 2–7 is a well-known Aramaic chiasm (A–B–C–C′–B′–A′).
  • Lamentations 1–5
  • Isaiah 6
Your proposed chiastic layers for Daniel 9:24–27 have merit, particularly:
  • A: Purpose clauses (v.24)
  • B: Starting points / Jerusalem (v.25)
  • C: Messiah & destruction (v.26)
  • D: The covenant / final week (v.27)
Scholars such as Goldingay, Collins, and Waltke affirm that Daniel frequently uses chiasms, so your proposal is not out of place.
The only caution is that some connections (such as “second 60th week = 1967”) rely more on historical correlation than textual markers.

3. Hebrew objections? Single-cycle vs dual-cycle

Here is where we must be careful. The Hebrew grammar, taken on its own, naturally leans toward one 70-week unit, because:

• The number “seventy” (שִׁבְעִים) appears only once (v.24)

Hebrew typically repeats the number if a second unit is intended.

• The “seven weeks + sixty-two weeks” (v.25) grammatically forms a single continuous chain

שִׁבְעָה שָׁבֻעִים וְשִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם
This is one long span in classical Hebrew.

• The phrase בַּשְּׁנַיִם שִׁשִּׁים


You interpreted as “the second sixty.”
However, in Hebrew syntax it is normally read as:
“In the sixty-two” (the same period mentioned previously).

So the standard Hebrew reading supports a single timeline grammatically, even if theologically one might argue for dual fulfillment.
Your interpretation is innovative, but the Hebrew text does not require two cycles.

Dear Brother, your study shows hunger for truth, deep respect for the Word, and a willingness to wrestle with difficult prophecy just like Daniel himself (Dan 9:2–3). Whether one adopts a single-cycle or dual-cycle view, your focus on holiness, righteousness, covenant faithfulness, and the triumph of God’s Kingdom is exactly what prophecy is designed to produce (Rev 19:10).

Daniel’s message whether fulfilled once or twice points us to:

✓ The finished work of Messiah (v.26)

✓ The coming final cleansing (v.27)

✓ The triumph of everlasting righteousness (v.24)


Greek parallels in the New Testament reinforce this:
Paul speaks of ἀνομία (lawlessness), ἀποκάλυψις (revealing), and καιρός (appointed time) in 2 Thess 2, echoing Daniel’s motifs.
So your emphasis on an eschatological completion is thoroughly biblical.

My Dear Brother,

Keep digging. Keep refining. Your love for Scripture honors the Author of Scripture.
Even where interpretations differ, the spirit of your study is upright, humble, and God-seeking.

If you continue polishing the linguistic foundations, especially the Hebrew syntax. you will bless many believers with this work.

Shalom and blessings in Messiah,
Pastor Waris
Upvote 0

The Schumer Shutdown

I didn't say he coined the name only that he distanced himself because not one of his promises about the ACA came true

  1. You can keep you plan - wrong
  2. You can keep your doctor - Wrong
  3. Health insurance cost will go down - Wrong
Here is the truth:

  1. Premiums have increased by 80%.
  2. From 2010 to 2023, the average premium for family coverage increased 80%, from just over $13,000 to nearly $24,000.
  3. Total healthcare costs for a family of four now exceed $30,000 per year—increasing from $18,000 per year when Obamacare was passed.
  4. Deductibles have increased over 50% since Obamacare was implemented in 2013.
Remember this beauty?

Boston on October 30, 2013, President Obama promoted the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and emphasized its affordability. He stated that “for many Americans, health insurance will cost less than the cost of your cell phone bill or cable bill.”
Citation needed that he distanced himself for any reason, let alone the ones stated.

This has been discussed repeatedly. There was a grandfather clause in the ACA and Obama thought it would protect existing plans. He was wrong and has said as much. He did not intentionally mislead anyone.

You can thank Marco Rubio and the GOP for eliminating Risk Corridors for the higher pricing.

Healthcare costs rise yearly. They have risen at a slower rate since the ACA was passed than in the years before. I and other posters have repeatedly pointed that out but you keep repeating that lie.

Give it a year. If the funding for the ACA and medicare/Medicaid aren't put back, everyone's healthcare will rise and many more hospitals will close in the most vulnerable counties in the most vulnerable states. On the plus side, we may get government run/non profit/ single payer hospitals anyway if the government has to step in to provide services in areas private hospitals have walked away from due to costs. Hopefully medicare won't see even further cuts due to budget sequestration rules. We will see.
Upvote 0

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

It's in the paragraph before the Results section.

I especially like the sudden introduction of a specific frequency, at best there some are some serious language problems going on, at worst it is gobbledegook.
Did you read the section leading up to the so called sudden introduction of microwatts and the reasoning behind how its the best way to measure acoustic sounds that is consistent and does not rely on varying measures from Pascals (air pressure) or subjective hearing levels which could vary from person to person.

The author gives the arguement and calculations for why this is best. One of the first things you should have done was readi the reasoning for the words you selected out of context. Then you would have clarified why he said this rather than an either/or fallacy that its either a serious language problems going on, at worst it is gobbledegook.

That you don't even mention that reasoning whether its right or wrong only shows your taking it out of context and not even bothering to actually read why the words are used in the first place. You spotted a word you thought did not belong and based the whole view of this world on a word or two.
Note, the paper is not peer-reviewed, and it is self-published. What peer-reviewed articles deal with acoustic properties of Egyptian pyramids and free energy? You alluded that they exist.
Ah like the good old provenance back up there is the "its not peer reviewed' objection you can always call on at your selective convenience. Notice how your happy to enage in the content if you think it can get you a "got ya" moment. But then change the goal posts if the article happens to be correct. You can always call on the good old '"its not peer reviewed' objection as a backup lol.

While I might add at the same time never providing yourself any peer review. You have made a lot of truth and fact claims. Or made accusations that authors and articles are so dumb they get 101 science wrong. Yet you never provide anything but personal opinion or out of context objections.
I've only been invited to peer-review papers in predatory journals and I have better use for my time and my field is not archeology or physics.
So I can't show you any articles I am currently reviewing, and I wouldn't be allowed either.
Is this some sort of appeal to authority. It does not matter how may peer reviews someone participates in. Its not going to make a misinformed or biased opinion fact or truth.

I think good science is repeated independent science. The findings of the article you object to and want to pick out so called wrong words has been backed up by other independent findings. Thats what tells me despite your complaints about a word that you think is wrong defines the whole research and authors.
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Furious Democrats Call for Schumer to Be Replaced After Shutdown Cave

It... was a joke.

But, noted. Poe's law certainly seems to apply to ardent MAGA supporters.
My apologies. I really did think you were serious. But to be fair this, a Christian forum, is replete with such fantastic views it’s so hard to tell.
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Lost tribes of Israel

Do you think that someone who follows rabbinical Judaism can be justified by God apart from Christ?

A person has only one way to come to G-d, through grace. Grace is G-d's movement towards man.

In the past, He scattered them, but now He is gathering them. In days gone by, He made them a proverb, but now they shall be a praise upon the earth.

as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong. Zec 8:13b

The restoration of Israel must be understood as a process that develops over time. It begins with a physical restoration in their land. Then follows spiritual restoration.

Most of these same prophets proclaim that G-d will pour out His Spirit on the people of Israel. They foresaw that He would give them a new heart and write His law on their hearts. This will be so radical that Paul describes it as being brought back to life. The blindness that Paul sees both in the nations (2 Corinthians 4:3ff) and in Israel (2 Corinthians 3:14ff) will finally be removed from humanity

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. Isa 25:7

Isn't it true that the congregation has lost much? Such as the Torah, for example. Our forefathers called the Torah a foreign teaching (Hosea 8:10). And the Jewish people have lost the Messiah. Both must be found and brought back. The Torah must be brought back to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in the nations (the ten lost tribes, the house of Jacob) and the Messiah to the tribe of Judah, the Jews

Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jer 6:16

If you take the word for congregation in the Torah, it is the same word in a Hebrew translation of the NT. Unfortunately, the translators never rendered it that way, which could give the impression that the congregation (church) is something different from the congregation in the Torah. From YHVH's perspective, there is only one congregation, one law (Torah), one king and one country. This also applies to strangers. The Torah repeatedly states

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Ex 12:49

YHVH presents a covenant to all (the two houses and the strangers). Whoever enters into the covenant and keeps the terms of the covenant belongs to the bride.

This spiritual restoration of Israel will lead to the time of messianic rule on earth. The prophets saw the day coming when ‘the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David’ who will rule over his people. Jesus himself proclaimed that Israel would not see Him again until it welcomed Him back into the city. Both the Hebrew prophets and the apostle John see Israel at that time ‘look upon me whom they have pierced,’ (Zec 12:10; Rev 1:7).

But the greatest promise is that the restoration of Israel will lead to the defeat of the power of death

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; Isa 25:8a

Paul refers to this when he speaks of the resurrection from the dead (1 Cor 15:54). This means that Israel's restoration will finally put an end to mankind's greatest fear to this day, the fear of death. Its poisonous sting will be broken, and death will not have the last word; rather, this will belong to the resurrection life of Jesus Christ.

That is why Paul could triumphantly proclaim about Israel:

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Rom 11:15

This means that Israel's greatest calling still lies ahead of us. We must recognise that G-d is restoring His people to their inheritance, their relationship with Him, and their destiny.
Upvote 0

Judge Orders Release Of Hundreds Arrested During Immigration Raids

Its not at all up to a judge to determine if a person is in violation of immigration law. That is up to an immigration judge. This judge has overstepped their authority. Letting illegals back into the population?

Or is that not what's last happening herw?
Guess it will be quickly overturned on appeal then. I'm sure a higher court will quickly grant a TRO if this case is so cut and dried?
Upvote 0

B flat B♭

Couldn't have all these photo's have been touched up ?
Of course the photos could be touched up, but I doubt that you could get at least 7 countries to agree and thousands of people working in space programs around the world to unanimously go along with it. From what little I understand about people, somebody would be a willing to come forward with proof of the retouched photos just for the fame.
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

Here's a story for you:

Many years ago when acupuncture started to become trendy the American Medical Association sent a team of (methodological naturalist) doctors over to China to work with traditional Chinese healers to see if there was anything in it. When they returned they reported that

1. Acupuncture was actually effective in many (though not all) cases as claimed.
2. The traditional explanation for its effectiveness, Qi energy channels, yin & yang, etc. was all post hoc moonshine.
3. They had discovered two new useful acupuncture points previously unknown to traditional Chinese medicine.

What do you make of that?
I think that this is a either/or fallacy. Either all situations have a physical or spiritual affect. That there is not mixture of causes or explanations. Lets apply the same scenario to miracles and prayer. I am sure they will come back and say that miracles and prayer is post hoc and in the imagination.

It still may be that remedies that are outside the box have a physical affect on reality. It may be that acupuncture though having a physical explanation ie stimulates the area. But we don't know the affect it has on minds. Much of this kind of medicine is based on mental states overcoming physical states. Even psychology is based on this. It is the mind that creates certain realities mentally. Physics even tells us this now.

So you don't know what degrees of influence the non material or spiritual has on the physical. You just assume its all physical. We even have an entire journal on spiritual auggmentation which shows that the spiritual actually changes the physical outcomes of patients. What sort of physical explanation could explain this. I am sure skeptics will find one. Even for miracles and prayer.

This whole debate about what line or threshhold is material or spiritual and transcends objective reality. Or visible and invisible is itself represents. Or what even the physical represents ontologically is an unsettled philsophy.
Here's another:

I worked for a while in a small island nation .The natives cultivated a plant, unique to those islands, which had medicinal properties. Of course the existence and use of the plant was surrounded with a traditional spiritual framework, but the important thing was that it worked. While I was there the plant came to the attention of (methodolically naturalist) Western medicine. The main concern of the Islanders was not that their spiritual framework would be dismissed, but whether or not they would get royalties from pharma companies.
Lol yes money always trumps everything else. The same thing has happened with some indigenous groups who have claims to the land as original inhabitants. They are now using the system that took their land to make money by holding it to ransom for big $ deals. They realise they sit on valuable minerals. But this is not the average Abroriginal who just wants to be free on the land as it is like their spiritual home.

Look there are all sorts of specific examples which are not so black and white and I am not claiming that material sciences that explain the naturalistic causes are not explaining something real. There are degrees where the scientific explanation fits well and others it doesn't.

Of course the results of the knowledge work. Otherwise its useless. But it doesn't tell us the nature of how that works. The science is just describing what is happening. The physical processes and results. The results come from the physical explanations.

My point is we don't know that. We don't know how much the experience of nature made a difference to knowing and influencing reality. I don't think the ancients could explain the scientific causes. They have no idea. All they know is that they experienced something about nature that led them to deeper knowledge of how to manipulate it.

Observing from the outside is completely different to immersion within nature. This surely brings a different level of knowledge and one that is more directly linked to what is going on.

I liken it to an intimant relation with something. There are certain aspects you can measure about the material processes. But there are realities that can only be known by the subjective experiences. Just like Marys experience of the color Red. We gain knowledge of reality that all the knowledge of science and material reality could not tell us.

So there may be like knowledge that is gained by the deeper immersion and intimate relation to nature that only comes from conscious experiences of it.

That may be that the phenomenal experiences give a different view or paradigm. Open minds up to levels of nature that are not accessible from the outside in view of 3rd party sciences. Hense the ancients and Indigenous peoples were discovering some of natures secrets that the material sciences could never find or understand without the enlightened knowledge and science looking from the outside in.
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B flat B♭

Your husband must have had a good influence on you, because while he was alive, despite the disagreements you were a very likeable person.
You seem to have changed for the worse since his passing, as I'm finding very little to like about your current interactions in these threads. I too have lost loved ones, though not my wife, thank God, but I won't presume to try and give advice. Please do consider how the manner in which you are posting has changed and make an effort to get back to how you were. I'd like to be able to call you a friend despite our disagreements but cannot in good faith consider that with your current attitude.
God bless.

Have I really gotten so bad, I hadn't realized, I'm so sorry & will try to be on a more friendlier note.
I am truly sorry,
Please forgive me.

Blessings :praying:
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B flat B♭

I suspect she may have meant "post" as in "lamp post". in which case the word should be "mast" for an aerial. But the signals obviously do not come from aerial masts, otherwise it would be a simple matter of aligning the dish towards the nearest aerial mast, instead of towards the empty sky.
Yes I thought that might be what she meant, but her wording certainly made it seem that she was talking about the postman delivering the signals, especially as she (like me) s in the UK, where we tend to say "post" where Americans say "mail." She wrote in Post 827: "Like I said, either by underground or post, there are no satellites obiting the earth."
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