IT IS CALLED PRE-TRIBULATION , MID - TRIBULATION AND POST TRIBULATION , RAPTURE ?

[Dan Perez]

First , just find the Greed word RAPTURE and I have yet to find it in VINE' GREEK DICTIONARY and if you have found it , please write to me where it is found .

# 1 I am a PRE- TRIBULATIONIST

#2 And here is what I have found in my study .

#3 In 2 Thess 2:3 is my belief .

#4 LET // EXPATAO is a verb in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#5 NO // is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and it , what Paul writes can NOT HAPPEN , NEVERRRRRRRRRRR

#6 MAN // TIS is a INDEFINITE PRONOUN , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR

#7 DECEIVE // EXAPATAO is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , Means it could happen to you and be deceived .

#8 YOU // HYMAS is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

#9 BY ANY // MEDEIS , in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE in the SLINGULAR .

#10 MEANS // TROPOS , also in the ACCUSATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR

#11 THERE COME // ERCHOMAI , in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD means , thinking that could happen

# 12 A // HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE and in the SINULAR , and the Greek A // HO is pointing to the Greek word FALLING AWAY .

#13 FALLING AWAY // APOSTASIA and I say it , APOSTASIA means DEPARTURE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ,as the BODY OF CHRIST has to DEPART , FIRST , then verse 4 will happen .

#14 We see from 2 Thess 2:1 the Greek word COMING // PAROUSIA for the B O C , as verse 2 , there were FAKE LETTERS that Paul did not write , that caused , trouble and many were shaken in mind as that the DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND , and that happened almost 2000 years ago .


dan p

 

[Clare73]

First , just find the Greed word RAPTURE and I have yet to find it in VINE' GREEK DICTIONARY and if you have found it , please write to me where it is found .

"Rapture" is from the Latin rapturo, which is from the Greek harpazo, "catching up," following the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:17).
It happens at the parousia , second "coming" of the Lord (1 Th 4:15) for the resurrection,
when the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be "snatched up" (harpazo) to go out to meet the Lord in the air and to accompany him back to earth in his parousia for the judgment, as in his coming into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday where they all went out of the city to meet him and to accompany him back into the city.

# 1 I am a PRE- TRIBULATIONIST
#2 And here is what I have found in my study .
#3 In 2 Thess 2:3 is my belief .
#4 LET // EXPATAO is a verb in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .
#5 NO // is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and it , what Paul writes can NOT HAPPEN , NEVERRRRRRRRRRR
#6 MAN // TIS is a INDEFINITE PRONOUN , in the NOMINATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR
#7 DECEIVE // EXAPATAO is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , Means it could happen to you and be deceived .
#8 YOU // HYMAS is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

#9 BY ANY // MEDEIS , in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE in the SLINGULAR .

#10 MEANS // TROPOS , also in the ACCUSATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR

#11 THERE COME // ERCHOMAI , in the Greek AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD means , thinking that could happen

# 12 A // HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , in the NOMINATIVE CASE and in the SINULAR , and the Greek A // HO is pointing to the Greek word FALLING AWAY .

#13 FALLING AWAY // APOSTASIA and I say it , APOSTASIA means DEPARTURE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ,as the BODY OF CHRIST has to DEPART , FIRST , then verse 4 will happen .

#14 We see from 2 Thess 2:1 the Greek word COMING // PAROUSIA for the B O C , as verse 2 , there were FAKE LETTERS that Paul did not write , that caused , trouble and many were shaken in mind as that the DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND , and that happened almost 2000 years ago .


dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

"Rapture" is from the Latin rapturo, which is from the Greek harpazo, "catching up," following the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:17).
It happens at the parousia , second "coming" of the Lord (1 Th 4:15) for the resurrection,
when the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be "snatched up" (harpazo) to go out to meet the Lord in the air and to accompany him back to earth in his parousia for the judgment, as in his coming into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday where they all went out of the city to meet him and to accompany him back into the ci

"Rapture" is from the Latin rapturo, which is from the Greek harpazo, "catching up," following the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:17).
It happens at the parousia , second "coming" of the Lord (1 Th 4:15) for the resurrection,
when the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be "snatched up" (harpazo) to go out to meet the Lord in the air and to accompany him back to earth in his parousia for the judgment, as in his coming into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday where they all went out of the city to meet him and to accompany him back into the city.

#1 The NEW TESTAMENT was written in Greek and not in LATIN , and that means RAPTURO is OUT !!

#2 The Greek word COMMING // PAROUSIA is used in 2 Thess 2:1

#3 In 1 Thess 4:17 CAUGHT UP // HARPAZO

#4 THE one that I like is 2 Thess is APOSTASIA /// DEPARTURE

#5 And APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 .

dan p

 

[Clare73]

#1 The NEW TESTAMENT was written in Greek and not in LATIN , and that means RAPTURO is OUT !!
#2 The Greek word COMMING // PAROUSIA is used in 2 Thess 2:1
#3 In 1 Thess 4:17 CAUGHT UP // HARPAZO
#4 THE one that I like is 2 Thess is APOSTASIA /// DEPARTURE
#5 And APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 .

That's departure (#4 & 5) as in "falling away."

 

[Marilyn C]

"Rapture" is from the Latin rapturo, which is from the Greek harpazo, "catching up," following the resurrection at the end of time (1 Th 4:17).
It happens at the parousia , second "coming" of the Lord (1 Th 4:15) for the resurrection,
when the dead will be resurrected, the believers will be "snatched up" (harpazo) to go out to meet the Lord in the air and to accompany him back to earth in his parousia for the judgment, as in his coming into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday where they all went out of the city to meet him and to accompany him back into the city.

Hi Clare,

Now where does God`s word tell us that the believers will come back to earth? Thank you.

 

[Clare73]

Hi Clare,

Now where does God`s word tell us that the believers will come back to earth? Thank you.

Where does it tell us they will not?

Will they be judging the world with Christ? Where will that take place?

 

[Marilyn C]

Where does it tell us they will not?

Will they be judging the world with Christ? Where will that take place?

The Body of Christ will be in the third heaven with the Lord on His own throne. There are NO scriptures to say we come back to earth. Some translations have wrongly written `saints,` instead of `holy ones.` And `holy ones` can be either - angels or saints. Thus, we need more clarification as to who comes back with Jesus. it is very clear from what the Lord tells us -

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

[Dan Perez]

The Body of Christ will be in the third heaven with the Lord on His own throne. There are NO scriptures to say we come back to earth. Some translations have wrongly written `saints,` instead of `holy ones.` And `holy ones` can be either - angels or saints. Thus, we need more clarification as to who comes back with Jesus. it is very clear from what the Lord tells us -

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

In 1 Cor 5:1-13 Paul rebukes those Corinthians that can not know to judge , in verse 13.

Then in 1 Cor 6:2 we will above the THIRD HEAVEN and in God IUNIVERN , GOVERNING God's UNIVERSE .\and GOVERNING God's ANGELS .

dan p

 

[Marilyn C]

In 1 Cor 5:1-13 Paul rebukes those Corinthians that can not know to judge , in verse 13.

Then in 1 Cor 6:2 we will above the THIRD HEAVEN and in God IUNIVERN , GOVERNING God's UNIVERSE .\and GOVERNING God's ANGELS .

dan p

Hi Dan,

Where do you get that we will be above the third heaven, please?

 

[Clare73]

The Body of Christ will be in the third heaven with the Lord on His own throne. There are NO scriptures to say we come back to earth. Some translations have wrongly written `saints,` instead of `holy ones.` And `holy ones` can be either - angels or saints. Thus, we need more clarification as to who comes back with Jesus. it is very clear from what the Lord tells us -
`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

We are part of his second coming at the resurrection.
With a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, the dead will rise first (before the snatching up),
then the saints (those living at the time and the resurrected) will be "snatched up" to go out and meet the Lord in the air (1 Th 4:16-17)
and to accompany him to earth in his second coming, where they will assist him in the final judgment (1 Co 6:2, Mt 19:28).

In apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, the snatching up is not to heaven, it is to be with the Lord (1 Th 4:17), who comes to judge the world.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi Dan,

Where do you get that we will be above the third heaven, please?

 

[Dan Perez]

The best verse for the BODY OF CHRIST , about the third heaven is in 1 Cor 6:2 and in 2 Cor 12:1-2 .

The observable UNIVERSE is about 93 billion LIGHT YEARS AWAY , and some say more or LESS .

danp

 

[Marilyn C]

The best verse for the BODY OF CHRIST , about the third heaven is in 1 Cor 6:2 and in 2 Cor 12:1-2 .

The observable UNIVERSE is about 93 billion LIGHT YEARS AWAY , and some say more or LESS .

danp

Yes, Paul refers to the third heaven, and we know that the exalted glorified Lord Jesus will be coronated on His own throne in that realm with us. (Rev. 4: 1 - 4) It is from that throne that we will judge the world system and fallen angels.

 

[Marilyn C]

We are part of his second coming at the resurrection.
With a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, the dead will rise first (before the snatching up),
then the saints (those living at the time and the resurrected) will be "snatched up" to go out and meet the Lord in the air (1 Th 4:16-17)
and to accompany him to earth in his second coming, where they will assist him in the final judgment (1 Co 6:2, Mt 19:28).

In apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, the snatching up is not to heaven, it is to be with the Lord (1 Th 4:17), who comes to judge the world.

Only the dead (those asleep) in Christ will rise when the Lord comes for His Body NOT all the dead. (1 Thess. 4: 14) They are resurrected at the Great White throne at the end of the age. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

Matt. 19: 28 refers to the 12 (pre-cross) apostles who will rule in the new heavens and new earth. (Rev. 21: 14)

 

[Dan Perez]

Yes, Paul refers to the third heaven, and we know that the exalted glorified Lord Jesus will be coronated on His own throne in that realm with us. (Rev. 4: 1 - 4) It is from that throne that we will judge the world system and fallen angels.

#1 I believe that Revelation was written about Israel and then progresses ton the NEW PARADISE in Rev 22 .

#2 I have yet to see where the Body of Christ is mentioned in Rev 4:1-4 ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Only the dead (those asleep) in Christ will rise when the Lord comes for His Body NOT all the dead. (1 Thess. 4: 14) They are resurrected at the Great White throne at the end of the age. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

Matt. 19: 28 refers to the 12 (pre-cross) apostles who will rule in the new heavens and new earth. (Rev. 21: 14)

Not according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, where Jesus presents only one resurrection, that of the sheep and the goats; i.e., all mankind at the end of time, nor according to the apostle Paul.
More than one resurrection is derived from prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) personally interpreted contrary to NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

Keeping in mind that the rapture occurs with the one and only bodily resurrection:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the one and only resurrection is in the last day at the judgment of all mankind at the end of time:

the last day (end of time) = resurrection = rapture = second coming (with the saints**) = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(And also let me point out that the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby makes only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

**The "saints" (hagios) of 2 Th 1:10 and Jude 14 are the "holy ones" (hagios) of 1 Th 3:13 who come with Jesus at the second coming.

 

[Marilyn C]

Not according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, where Jesus presents only one resurrection, that of the sheep and the goats; i.e., all mankind at the end of time, nor according to the apostle Paul.
More than one resurrection is derived from prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) personally interpreted contrary to NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

Keeping in mind that the rapture occurs with the one and only bodily resurrection:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the one and only resurrection is in the last day at the judgment of all mankind at the end of time:

the last day (end of time) = resurrection = rapture = second coming (with the saints**) = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(And also let me point out that the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby makes only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

**The "saints" (hagios) of 2 Th 1:10 and Jude 14 are the "holy ones" (hagios) of 1 Th 3:13 who come with Jesus at the second coming.

Hi Clare,

John 6: 39 refers to the last day and to those who believe in Him - ie Israel and the nations. The Body of Christ revelation was NOT known or revealed until Jesus went to the Father and told it to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3: 5 & 6)

1 Thess. 4: 16 is ONLY for those in the Body of Christ.

Matt. 24: 39 - 41 is as in the days of the flood those taken as in the flood and those left will go into the millennium.

Matt. 25: 31 - 33 refers to those of the nations that will go into the millennium.

Your misunderstand of scriptures stems from the fact that you have not realised that the Body of Christ revelation was NOT known before the Lord reveals it to Paul.

The `holy ones,` are the angels as the Lord tells us -

they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

[Marilyn C]

#1 I believe that Revelation was written about Israel and then progresses ton the NEW PARADISE in Rev 22 .

#2 I have yet to see where the Body of Christ is mentioned in Rev 4:1-4 ?

dan p

The 7 churches are an overview of the 7 stages of the Body of Christ throughout history. Jesus is walking in their midst and overseeing their maturing.

Rev. 4: 2 - 4

` Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, A throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.` (Rev. 4: 2)

We see that the `one` on this throne is described to be like glorious gem stones, the `Jasper and Sardius` stones. They were the first and last on the High Priest`s breastplate. So now we realise that this throne, this rulership is for a High Priest.

`And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

The Gem Stones.

`And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)


The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)


Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.

The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.


The Emerald gem stone is also on the High Priest`s breastplate, and was for the tribe of Reuben. He was the first born of Jacob, and his heir. To the heir would be given three portions - the birthright, (double blessing), the priesthood and the kingdom.

`and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.` (Rev. 4: 3)

The `One` on the throne then is the High Priest of Heaven, the conqueror, the Sovereign Ruler and Heir of all the Father`s estates.

The 24 Elders.

These 24 Elders are representative of the whole Body of Christ, the Overcomers. The number 24 indicates 12 for rulership, (king) and 12 for the Priesthood. A double office.

`Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, And on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, Clothed in white robes;
And they had crowns of gold on their heads.` (Rev. 4: 4)

They are kingpriests that will be seated on thrones. This is the inheritance that was promised to them. They have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus and will then be given authority, crowns, to rule and reign with Christ.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Clare73]

Hi Clare,

John 6: 39 refers to the last day and to those who believe in Him - ie Israel and the nations. The Body of Christ revelation was NOT known or revealed until Jesus went to the Father and told it to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3: 5 & 6)

Hi, Marilyn,

Actually. . .according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church
(as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8),
and in the light of which apostolic teaching all Scripture is to be understood,
God has only one people, the one olive tree of the church, composed of both the OT saints and the NT saints (Heb 11),
where Israel's only destiny is to be grafted back into that one people. . .IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Heb 11:23),
which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.

1 Thess. 4: 16 is ONLY for those in the Body of Christ.
Matt. 24: 39 - 41 is as in the days of the flood those taken as in the flood and those left will go into the millennium.
Matt. 25: 31 - 33 refers to those of the nations that will go into the millennium.
Your misunderstand of scriptures stems from the fact that you have not realised that the Body of Christ revelation was NOT known before the Lord reveals it to Paul. The `holy ones,` are the angels
as the Lord tells us -
they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)
`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)
`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)
`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

But not according to the Greek NT revelation where hagios is "saints," not angels.

Your understanding here is taken from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), and which interpretation is not in agreement with apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.
This understanding of prophecy, though very popular, is not correct because it does not agree with NT apostolic revelation, as in Heb 11, and the following where
Jesus locates the one and only resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence,
the last day (end of time) = resurrection = rapture = second coming (with the saints**) = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)


**The "saints" (hagios) of 2 Th 1:10 and Jude 14 are the "holy ones" (hagios) of 1 Th 3:13 who come with Jesus at the second coming.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi, Marilyn,

Actually. . .according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church
(as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8),
and in the light of which apostolic teaching all Scripture is to be understood,
God has only one people, the one olive tree of the church, composed of both the OT saints and the NT saints (Heb 11),
where Israel's only destiny is to be grafted back into that one people. . .IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Heb 11:23),
which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.

So, who are the nations of the earth walking in the light of the New Jerusalem? (Rev. 21: 24)