Did Judaism get the Sabbath right?

[BobRyan]

Gary K said:
Sp, you've discovered the mistake Jesus missed while here on earth

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, December 1, 2023 at 9:34 AM EST! Judaism has the correct Sabbath in Jerusalem that Jesus kept, but a wrong view of the day of the week.

“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

hmm == that kind of argument has no end - it wipes out all the teaching of Jesus arguing that "well He did not mention this was wrong because that was some additional info He was not telling at that time".

It is dangerous to post a ministry-destroying argument against Christ's actual practice and teaching. I suspect we both might agree - at least on this one point.

"The more to tell" was not "in contradiction to His teaching and practice" -- though you appear to promote that kind of u-turn.

For the rest of Jesus - Jesus was honoring the Bible Sabbath and so were all those gathered for Sabbath worship "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 long after Jesus left the Earth and while Paul was preaching the Gospel "every Sabbath".

This is why exegesis, context and holding firm to sola-scriptura testing is so "necessary" to sound doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

Your translation, the NLT, cheats when it comes to the following passage:

Genesis 1:14-18 NLT
14Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1 NLT

It omits words from the text, and in this case it omits raqia three times, and does not render that word from the Hebrew text. The text has the raqia of the shamayim

Indeed raqia of heaven - (firmament of heaven)

Genesis 1:14-19 KJV
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

1. Let there be lights to divide day and night
2. vs 16 and God made (exactly) two great lights. The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night

Exactly two. One for the day and the other for the night.

Vs 1 already covers the fact that God is the one that made everything including stars. Vs 16 (he made the stars also) is added in such a way that this fact holds true even though they are not one of the two lights and are not made on day 4. Some will insist that they are made on day 4 even though they are not one of the two lights made -- but it makes more sense in my POV to not force that into day 4. So then "two" is all that was made on day 4 even though God is also the one who made the stars on some day other than day 4 or other than creation week at all.

 

[guevaraj]

"The more to tell" was not "in contradiction to His teaching and practice" -- though you appear to promote that kind of u-turn.

Brother, the correction of the Sabbath from human tradition is provided in the book of Hebrews but the King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land. For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest available since the first week of creation, which they later entered in the Promised Land at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week. Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath and assumed wrongly that this earlier Sabbath, from evening to evening, was also the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, overlooking the fact that the days of the week were in the desert from morning to morning for 40 years.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

This blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus hid the true message of the book of Hebrews for generations of readers of the English translation of the scriptures when Jesus wanted us to keep His first week's Sabbath "day" corrected from human tradition since Joshua, where Joshua wrongly thought the Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of Eden and falls at a different time in Jerusalem, half a day before the seventh day of the week. The KJV twisted the message of the passage to fit their misidentification that many other translations followed even after the misidentification was corrected, but not corrected was its effect on the rest of the message in the book of Hebrews. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of Joshua as Jesus in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath be mistranslated as the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" of Jesus (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)​

The blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus changed the below "good news" of entering the Sabbath to the above "gospel" of Jesus, forcing the message to seem to be about the present when it is about a past misunderstanding of the Sabbath. The New Living Translation (NLT) was a complete effort from the original languages which finally corrected this twisting of the scriptures by the KJV that influenced so many other translations.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Those, like Joshua, who first heard the "good news", that God had prepared this rest" since the first week of creation, were punished not to enter the Sabbath by an "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the following Hebrews passage corrected from the blunder of the KJV, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. We do not automatically enter the "day" of rest by accepting the "good news" of entering the Sabbath "announced to us just as it was to them" in the desert, like the KJV mistranslated. What we "can" enter is the "day" of rest in the new covenant "announced to us just as it was to them" by understanding how God prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert by punishing them by having them keep the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land when the Sabbath is entered earlier than the Seventh day of the week in the Promised Land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ralliann]

Brother, the correction of the Sabbath from human tradition is provided in the book of Hebrews but the King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land. For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest available since the first week of creation, which they later entered in the Promised Land at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week. Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath and assumed wrongly that this earlier Sabbath, from evening to evening, was also the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, overlooking the fact that the days of the week were in the desert from morning to morning for 40 years.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

This blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus hid the true message of the book of Hebrews for generations of readers of the English translation of the scriptures when Jesus wanted us to keep His first week's Sabbath "day" corrected from human tradition since Joshua, where Joshua wrongly thought the Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of Eden and falls at a different time in Jerusalem, half a day before the seventh day of the week. The KJV twisted the message of the passage to fit their misidentification that many other translations followed even after the misidentification was corrected, but not corrected was its effect on the rest of the message in the book of Hebrews. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of Joshua as Jesus in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath be mistranslated as the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" of Jesus (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)​

The blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus changed the below "good news" of entering the Sabbath to the above "gospel" of Jesus, forcing the message to seem to be about the present when it is about a past misunderstanding of the Sabbath. The New Living Translation (NLT) was a complete effort from the original languages which finally corrected this twisting of the scriptures by the KJV that influenced so many other translations.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Those, like Joshua, who first heard the "good news", that God had prepared this rest" since the first week of creation, were punished not to enter the Sabbath by an "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the following Hebrews passage corrected from the blunder of the KJV, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. We do not automatically enter the "day" of rest by accepting the "good news" of entering the Sabbath "announced to us just as it was to them" in the desert, like the KJV mistranslated. What we "can" enter is the "day" of rest in the new covenant "announced to us just as it was to them" by understanding how God prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert by punishing them by having them keep the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land when the Sabbath is entered earlier than the Seventh day of the week in the Promised Land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

It is not a misidentification in Hebrews. It consistently uses Jesus instead of Joshua in the new testament. why not complain about misidentifying Jesus in the entire new testament?

 

[guevaraj]

It is not a misidentification in Hebrews. It consistently uses Jesus instead of Joshua in the new testament. why not complain about misidentifying Jesus in the entire new testament?

Sister, you bring up a good point of Joshua being easily missed among so many mentions of Jesus! Satan has used a man in the mother of all prostitutes who has many daughters to deceive with the lie of humans being able to replace the Sabbath with Sunday. This is in irony with the Sabbath being corrected from human tradition under the new covenant in Hebrews.

This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NLT)​

The above passage suggests God anticipated and facilitated the bad translation of the King James Version. If God punished them in the desert why would He not want to punish today those who are "enjoying evil rather than believing the truth" about the Sabbath in the following passage that would save them.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in the hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Indeed raqia of heaven - (firmament of heaven)

1. Let there be lights to divide day and night
2. vs 16 and God made (exactly) two great lights. The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night

Exactly two. One for the day and the other for the night.

Vs 1 already covers the fact that God is the one that made everything including stars. Vs 16 (he made the stars also) is added in such a way that this fact holds true even though they are not one of the two lights and are not made on day 4. Some will insist that they are made on day 4 even though they are not one of the two lights made -- but it makes more sense in my POV to not force that into day 4. So then "two" is all that was made on day 4 even though God is also the one who made the stars on some day other than day 4 or other than creation week at all.

Yes, and maowr is always used for light from what I can see, not an actual luminous orb as lexicons say. A perfect example of this is the menorah and its oil for the light. The menorah is the luminary, the oil is for the light, (maowr), and the light that the menorah puts off is maowr, light. One can imagine a chandelier in the same exact way: the chandelier hangs from a ceiling and is the luminous orb, but if it was before we had electricity and it had oil lamps, it is the same as the menorah but hanging from the ceiling instead of being on a stand. The light that the menorah or chandelier puts off is maowr, and this is the same word found in the creation account for the two great lights, the greater light and the lesser light.

 

[ralliann]

Brother, you bring up a good point of Joshua being easily missed among so many mentions of Jesus!

Actually joshua is not missed. It is just consistently translated as Jesus.

And the passage in question concerns Joshua bringing them into their promised rest of inheritance.

Ex 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

De 3:18 And I commanded you at that time, saying, The LORD your God hath given you this land to possess it: ye shall pass over armed before your brethren the children of Israel, all that are meet for the war.
19 But your wives, and your little ones, and your cattle, (for I know that ye have much cattle,) shall abide in your cities which I have given you;
20 Until the LORD have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the LORD your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.
De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
De 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
De 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

Jos 1:13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
Jos 1:15 Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising.

Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.
Jos 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their

 

[daq]

And I will destroy anyone among you who does any work on that day (yum). You must not do any work at all! This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation wherever you live. This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown (ereb) on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown (ereb) on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:30-32 NLT)​

Because you have denied three full passages of scripture teaching and doctrine and the timing of the time of evening you cannot understand Lev 23:32, and it is also because you denied all of the scripture discourse and teaching concerning the evening oblation, and the meaning of between the evenings, and you again denied that same meaning in the manna passage where it is used for the quail: all so that you can maintain what you wish to believe instead.

 

[BobRyan]

Brother, the correction of the Sabbath from human tradition is provided in the book of Hebrews but the King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua

No such mistake is mentioned either in the OT or the Gospels or in the book of Hebrews. That is a huge problem for your speculation in that regard.

when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land.

There is no "transitioned to a different Sabbath without manna" statement in all of scripture. You are speculating it - but have not one text for such an odd and novel suggestion

For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna

There was no manna at all on the Sabbath during the 40 years. That was the day "with no manna". They would need to have collected it on Friday since none fell on the 7th day Sabbath just as none fell on the Sabbath for all the years afterward... IT was always "no manna on Sabbath".

How do your novel suggestions keep missing basic Bible details??

, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest

No text says "he punished them not to enter his day of rest" -- I guess we all know that.

Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath

no such text.

It was always evening to evening - starting in Genesis 1 - the evening and the morning are one day. So that makes it "from evening to evening" since the second evening ends the prior day and starts the succeeding day.

Everyone gets this detail so not sure why you find it so confusing.

And you are confusing context of Joshua vs Jesus ... So many issues in your post ...

 

[guevaraj]

Because you have denied three full passages of scripture teaching and doctrine and the timing of the time of evening you cannot understand Lev 23:32, and it is also because you denied all of the scripture discourse and teaching concerning the evening oblation, and the meaning of between the evenings, and you again denied that same meaning in the manna passage where it is used for the quail: all so that you can maintain what you wish to believe instead.

It was always evening to evening - starting in Genesis 1 - the evening and the morning are one day. So that makes it "from evening to evening" since the second evening ends the prior day and starts the succeeding day.

Brothers, you are aware that when you do a 360 degree revolution of the Earth you return to were you started. As the Sabbath in Jerusalem shows in the following passage returning to the "evening" where it started.

And I will destroy anyone among you who does any work on that day (yum). You must not do any work at all! This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation wherever you live. This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown (ereb) on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown (ereb) on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:30-32 NLT)​

Just as the Sabbath above returns to where it began, the passage below ends where it began with light. The 360 degree revolution of the Earth in the following first day returns to where it began in the morning light, having begun with something like a morning at first light.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening (ereb) passed and MORNING (boqer) came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

The order given above of "day" before "night" is verified in the following passage where the previous night is the day before and the next night to come is part of the current day.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brothers, you are aware that when you do a 360 degree revolution of the Earth you return to were you started. As the Sabbath in Jerusalem shows in the following passage returning to the "evening" where it started.

The time of evening is the time when women go forth to draw water, following the sixth hour:

Evening time commences when the sun reaches its zenith in the sky overhead and begins its downward trek into the west. This is the time when the women go forth to draw water. The time when the women go forth to draw water is expounded in the Gospel of John.

Genesis 24:11 KJV
11 And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water.

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

The tzohorim hour prayer time confirmed in the John 4 passage:

Just as the original text says and teaches, an evening and a morning are a yom, and the evening comes first: and the time of evening is the bottom of the sixth hour, which makes high noon the beginning of the midday prayer time. This is why Peter goes up to the rooftop to pray at around the sixth hour, (Acts 10:9), and also why Daniel is praying three times daily with his windows open toward Yerushalem, (Dan 6:10), which incorporates the midday tzohorim hour of prayer taught by king David in Psalm 55:17.

If only you would believe the scripture you might begin to understand the shabuim-yamim time prophecies of Daniel the Prophet and how they are fulfilled in the ministry of the Meshiah: for because of the midday hour of prayer being the timing that it is, according to the scripture, the ninth hour is proven to be the evening oblation, (Dan 9:21, Dan 10:13, Mat 27:45, Mrk 15:33, Luk 23:44, Acts 3:1, Acts 10:3). And of course the evening oblation is between the evenings, meaning between or in the midst of the evening hours, which consists of six hours, and which is the first half of the twelve hour day. Again, night is not part of the day, so it is simply not recognized: there are twelve hours in a day, (Jhn 11:9-10), not twenty-four, for the night is not the day but the night, and they have been divided or separated in the opening creation account.

The top of the sixth hour is the beginning of evening time, (again, the time when women go forth to draw water, Gen 24:11).

John 4:6-7 KJV
6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

Moreover, because the evening comes first, the hours of the spoken Word creation in the opening creation account also begin on the half, which is the bottom of the hour, the evening portion of the hour. Thus the bottom of the sixth hour is the beginning of the midday hour of prayer, and the prayer time begins after that half hour, at the top of the hour, in the full light of the midday tzohorim hour when the sun is directly overhead. And this time occurs in the same passage quoted above, and is an hour of worship unto the Father in Spirit and in truth.

John 4:21-24 KJV
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Just believe what the Master says: the hour had come as they spoke, right there in the passage when he says so, and it would have been the bottom of the sixth hour, and after the evening portion of that hour comes the time of prayer at precisely midday, at the top of the hour, in the midst of the tzohorim hour.

View attachment 339693

The confirmation that a day is twelve hours in the John 11 passage:

You still have the same problem: ereb does not mean sundown, it means evening, and the scripture teaches that ereb, evening, begins at about the sixth hour of the day as already shown from the scripture. Evening or ereb is therefore six hours, and yet sundown is not six hours: sundown is merely the very end and close of the six hour evening period, it is the beginning of night time. So your day commences with twelve hours of night because it begins with sundown, and by the morning how can there be any dawn just as the Master says in the John 11 passage? for a day is only twelve hours, and yet here you are teaching that the beginning of your day is the commencement of twelve hours of night?

John 11:9-10 KJV
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him [Isa 8:20].

The final clause of John 11:10 is a quote from Isaiah 8:20.

Isaiah 8:20 KJV
20 To the law [Torah] and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light [H7837 shachar] in them.

H7837 שַׁחַר shachar (shach'-ar) n-m.
dawn (literal, figurative or adverbial).
[from H7836]
KJV: day(-spring), early, light, morning, whence riseth.

No shachar, no dawn, no morning, no morning dawn, no morning light, no light.

The beginning of the sacred calendar day expounded in the 1 Samuel 20 passage:

Follow the context and heed what is taught in the following passage:

1 Samuel 20:5-42 KJV
5 And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.
6 If thy father at all miss me, then say, David earnestly asked leave of me that he might run to Bethlehem his city: for there is a yearly sacrifice there for all the family.
7 If he say thus, It is well; thy servant shall have peace: but if he be very wroth, then be sure that evil is determined by him.
8 Therefore thou shalt deal kindly with thy servant; for thou hast brought thy servant into a covenant of the LORD with thee: notwithstanding, if there be in me iniquity, slay me thyself; for why shouldest thou bring me to thy father?
9 And Jonathan said, Far be it from thee: for if I knew certainly that evil were determined by my father to come upon thee, then would not I tell it thee?
10 Then said David to Jonathan, Who shall tell me? or what if thy father answer thee roughly?
11 And Jonathan said unto David, Come, and let us go out into the field. And they went out both of them into the field.
12 And Jonathan said unto David, O LORD God of Israel, when I have sounded my father about to morrow any time, or the third day, and, behold, if there be good toward David, and I then send not unto thee, and shew it thee;
13 The LORD do so and much more to Jonathan: but if it please my father to do thee evil, then I will shew it thee, and send thee away, that thou mayest go in peace: and the LORD be with thee, as he hath been with my father.
14 And thou shalt not only while yet I live shew me the kindness of the LORD, that I die not:
15 But also thou shalt not cut off thy kindness from my house for ever: no, not when the LORD hath cut off the enemies of David every one from the face of the earth.
16 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, Let the LORD even require it at the hand of David's enemies.
17 And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul.
18 Then Jonathan said to David, To morrow is the new moon: and thou shalt be missed, because thy seat will be empty.
19 And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by the stone Ezel.
20 And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark.
21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the LORD liveth.
22 But if I say thus unto the young man, Behold, the arrows are beyond thee; go thy way: for the LORD hath sent thee away.
23 And as touching the matter which thou and I have spoken of, behold, the LORD be between thee and me for ever.
24 So David hid himself in the field: and when the new moon was come, the king sat him down to eat meat.
25 And the king sat upon his seat, as at other times, even upon a seat by the wall: and Jonathan arose, and Abner sat by Saul's side, and David's place was empty.
26 Nevertheless Saul spake not any thing that day: for he thought, Something hath befallen him, he is not clean; surely he is not clean.
27 And it came to pass on the morrow, which was the second day of the month, that David's place was empty: and Saul said unto Jonathan his son, Wherefore cometh not the son of Jesse to meat, neither yesterday, nor to day?
28 And Jonathan answered Saul, David earnestly asked leave of me to go to Bethlehem:
29 And he said, Let me go, I pray thee; for our family hath a sacrifice in the city; and my brother, he hath commanded me to be there: and now, if I have found favour in thine eyes, let me get away, I pray thee, and see my brethren. Therefore he cometh not unto the king's table.
30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
31 For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die.
32 And Jonathan answered Saul his father, and said unto him, Wherefore shall he be slain? what hath he done?
33 And Saul cast a javelin at him to smite him: whereby Jonathan knew that it was determined of his father to slay David.
34 So Jonathan arose from the table in fierce anger, and did eat no meat the second day of the month: for he was grieved for David, because his father had done him shame.
35 And it came to pass in the morning, that Jonathan went out into the field at the time appointed with David, and a little lad with him.
36 And he said unto his lad, Run, find out now the arrows which I shoot. And as the lad ran, he shot an arrow beyond him.
37 And when the lad was come to the place of the arrow which Jonathan had shot, Jonathan cried after the lad, and said, Is not the arrow beyond thee?
38 And Jonathan cried after the lad, Make speed, haste, stay not. And Jonathan's lad gathered up the arrows, and came to his master.
39 But the lad knew not any thing: only Jonathan and David knew the matter.
40 And Jonathan gave his artillery unto his lad, and said unto him, Go, carry them to the city.
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
42 And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.

The appointed time of 1 Samuel 20:35a is the time of evening, at the beginning of the third day of the month, which was plainly stated at the beginning of the passage in 1 Samuel 20:5. Yonathan goes out into the field in the morning with the lad and surely fires the three arrows at midday, the commencement of the time of evening, the time when women go forth to draw water, which immediately follows the sixth hour of the day, (Gen 24:11, 1 Sam 9:11, Jhn 4:6-7), as has been explained from the scripture many times now in our various discussions.

View attachment 339924

The time of evening fully expounded by the scripture in the Genesis 24 passage:

Genesis 24:11 LSV (Literal Standard Version)
11 and he causes the camels to kneel at the outside of the city, at the well of water, at evening, at the time of the coming out of the women who draw water.

1) It is the time of evening: the time when women go forth to draw water.
2) Then the servant of Abraham says a prayer, Gen 24:12-14.
3) Then, as he is yet speaking, Rebekah comes to draw water, Gen 24:15-16.
4) Then the servant runs to greet Rebekah and asks for a drink of water, Gen 24:17.
5) Then Rebekah gives him a drink and offers to draw water for his camels also, and does so, Gen 24:18-21.
6) Then, after watering the camels, the servant brings forth gifts, and they have a discussion, Gen 24:22-25.
7) Then the servant bows his head and gives thanks in prayer unto Elohim, Gen 24:26-27.
8) Then Rebekah runs back to the house and informs the household of these things, Gen 24:28.
9) Then Laban runs out to the well to meet the servant of Abraham, Gen 24:29.
10) Laban has prepared the house and has made room for the camels, Gen 24:30.
11) Laban greets the servant and invites him into their house, Gen 24:30-31.
12) Then the servant comes to the house, ungirds his camels, gives his camels straw and fodder, and he and those with him are given water to wash their feet and they wash their feet, Gen 24:32.
13) At this time it is the evening meal, Gen 24:33, which is the principle meal in ancient times, and this is typically right around the same time as the evening oblation, which is between the evening hours of the day, ("between the evenings").
14) Then the servant refuses to eat until he has told them of his errand, and he proceeds to tell them the whole story and reason for his having been sent by his master Abraham, and recounts everything including the events which had transpired that day at the well, Gen 24:33-49.
15) Then they eat and drink, also the men with him, and the servant brings forth more gifts for Rebekah and also for her brother Laban and his wife, Gen 24:50-54.
16) Lastly, concerning this day, we are told that the servant and those with him tarried the night there, Gen 24:54.
17) THERE IS NO WAY THAT "THE TIME OF EVENING" HERE IS SUNDOWN, TWILIGHT, OR NIGHTFALL.

Regarding #17, the same is true of 1 Samuel 9:11 and John 4:6-7 in their respective contexts.

The only passage mentioned so far that we have not fully discussed is the maidens going forth to draw water in 1 Samuel 9:11, which, as already said, cannot be sundown, twilight, or nightfall by any stretch of the imagination. You deny all of the above scripture teachings and doctrine, and cannot allow the scripture to speak for itself, knowing that if you do your whole Shabbat paradigm, (and your book), will be proven false.

 

[guevaraj]

The time of evening is the time when women go forth to draw water, following the sixth hour: The tzohorim hour prayer time confirmed in the John 4 passage:

Brother, she is an outcast Samaritan woman who is not a Jew at the well when Jesus says He's alone. This single woman would not go to draw water with other women to avoid talking while waiting for other women at the well. This single women at an hour when women usually do not visit the well, as Jesus tells us He's alone, does not make the time given, the evening when Jewish women go to get water at the end of the day.

“I don’t have a husband,” the woman replied. Jesus said, “You’re right! You don’t have a husband— for you have had five husbands, and you aren’t even married to the man you’re living with now. You certainly spoke the truth!” (John 4:17-18 NLT)​

The confirmation that a day is twelve hours in the John 11 passage:

The same breakdown of 12 hours is also given for the "night" in the following example.

Then he called two of the centurions and said, “Get ready two hundred soldiers, with seventy horsemen and two hundred spearmen to go as far as Caesarea at the third hour of the night. Also provide mounts for Paul to ride and bring him safely to Felix the governor.” (Acts 23:23-24 ESV)​

The beginning of the sacred calendar day expounded in the 1 Samuel 20 passage:

David's use of "evening" is to say that he will wait three full days for Jonathan's signal. Jonathan quickly gives David the signal early in the morning way before David's full day of hiding until the end of the day at the evening sunset.

David replied, “Tomorrow we celebrate the new moon festival. I’ve always eaten with the king on this occasion, but tomorrow I’ll hide in the field and stay there until the evening of the third day. If your father asks where I am, tell him I asked permission to go home to Bethlehem for an annual family sacrifice. If he says, ‘Fine!’ you will know all is well. But if he is angry and loses his temper, you will know he is determined to kill me. (1 Samuel 20:5-7 NLT)​

The time of evening fully expounded by the scripture in the Genesis 24 passage:

The passage says the man asked Rebekah in the "evening" for room to put him up for the "night" and her brother came "running" to do so while the man was still standing at the spring beside his camels drinking Rebekah's water at the end of the day. If it were in the middle of the day her brother would not have to run to provide room for the man while he is still beside his camels who are drinking Rebekah's water.

“Whose daughter are you?” he asked. “And please tell me, would your father have any room to put us up for the night (luwn)?” (Genesis 24:23 NLT)​

He was put up for the "night" quickly in the evening by Rebekah's brother who "ran" while "the man was still standing beside his camels" who are drinking the water Rebekah gave them.

The young woman ran (ruts) home to tell her family everything that had happened. Now Rebekah had a brother named Laban, who ran (ruts) out to meet the man at the spring. He had seen the nose-ring and the bracelets on his sister’s wrists, and had heard Rebekah tell what the man had said. So he rushed out (bo) to the spring, where the man was still standing beside his camels. Laban said to him, “Come and stay with us, you who are blessed by the LORD! Why are you standing here outside the town when I have a room all ready for you and a place prepared for the camels?” (Genesis 24:28-31 NLT)​

The only passage mentioned so far that we have not fully discussed is the maidens going forth to draw water in 1 Samuel 9:11, which, as already said, cannot be sundown, twilight, or nightfall by any stretch of the imagination.

At the end of the day, when Saul had but given up searching for the donkeys, his servant suggested seeing Samuel the prophet when women go to get water at the end of the day.

You deny all of the above scripture teachings and doctrine, and cannot allow the scripture to speak for itself, knowing that if you do your whole Shabbat paradigm, (and your book), will be proven false.

My evidence is verified in the following passage! All you have is a supposition that the Bible opposes in many places like the following passage.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

No such mistake is mentioned either in the OT or the Gospels or in the book of Hebrews. That is a huge problem for your speculation in that regard.

Brother, we are told in the following passage of another day for the Sabbath than the one thought since Joshua in Judaism.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

There is no "transitioned to a different Sabbath without manna" statement in all of scripture. You are speculating it - but have not one text for such an odd and novel suggestion

Those who first heard of the Sabbath "ready since he made the world" were prevented from entering by "oath" for 40 years with Manna.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:3 NLT)​

There was no manna at all on the Sabbath during the 40 years. That was the day "with no manna". They would need to have collected it on Friday since none fell on the 7th day Sabbath just as none fell on the Sabbath for all the years afterward... IT was always "no manna on Sabbath". How do your novel suggestions keep missing basic Bible details?? No text says "he punished them not to enter his day of rest" -- I guess we all know that.

Those in the desert who first heard of the Sabbath were prevented from entering by "oath" for 40 years with Manna.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. (Hebrews 4:6 NLT)​

no such text. It was always evening to evening - starting in Genesis 1 - the evening and the morning are one day. So that makes it "from evening to evening" since the second evening ends the prior day and starts the succeeding day. Everyone gets this detail so not sure why you find it so confusing.

The Genesis order of "day" before "night" is confirmed in the following passage.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

And you are confusing context of Joshua vs Jesus ... So many issues in your post ...

Jesus is not before David for those that first heard the message of entering the Sabbath and were prevented from entering by "oath" for 40 years in the desert with Manna.

So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” (Hebrews 4:7 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Actually joshua is not missed. It is just consistently translated as Jesus.

Sister, here is the passage in the KJV corrected in the NKJV as in most if not all other translations.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

And the passage in question concerns Joshua bringing them into their promised rest of inheritance.

There are many uses of the word rest in the scriptures as you point out, but only one rest "day" we know as the Sabbath. The passage speaks of another "day" of rest we know as the Sabbath, saying "this rest has been ready since He made the world" in the following passage.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

Here is more of the above context where we "can" and do not automatically enter the Sabbath as translated by the KJV.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ralliann]

Sister, here is the passage in the KJV corrected in the NKJV as in most if not all other translations.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

There are many uses of the word rest in the scriptures as you point out, but only one rest "day" we know as the Sabbath.

The 10th day of the seventh month
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

1st day 7th month
Le 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

The passage speaks of another "day" of rest we know as the Sabbath, saying "this rest has been ready since He made the world" in the following passage.

This passage obviously speaks of the rest when Jesus (Joshau) caused them to inherit the land.
God already finished the heavens in the beginning the rest of our inheritance.

 

[daq]

Brother, she is an outcast Samaritan woman who is not a Jew at the well when Jesus says He's alone. This single woman would not go to draw water with other women to avoid talking while waiting for other women at the well. This single women at an hour when women usually do not visit the well, as Jesus tells us He's alone, does not make the time given, the evening when Jewish women go to get water at the end of the day.

You are making stuff up. Just because only one woman is mentioned does not mean no other women might have come to the well to draw water. It also does not mean it could not have been the time when women go forth to draw water: that is ridiculous and serves no other purpose than to maintain a bias despite the obvious logic and reasoning which says otherwise. Moreover the well is in Samaria: she is not an outcast but a local woman from the town mentioned in the text, which was a town or city of Samaria called Sychar.

In ancient times villages, towns, and cities were built up around wells because water was not always so easy to come by. When a good well was either dug or discovered people naturally began to build their dwellings around the well because it was close at hand, and eventually villages became towns, and some towns eventually became larger cities.

The women would go forth to draw water at two main times of the day: the first was early in the morning, and this was so that they would have water for the morning portion of the day, which is six hours, the six hours of the morning portion of the day. Then the women would go out again to draw water at about midday, and this was so that they would have water for the evening portion of the day, which is also six hours, the six hours of the evening portion of the day. In the Middle East there are still places where this practice continues to this day although the drawing times may have changed a little due to modern amenities and lifestyle changes over the past two thousand years.

 

[guevaraj]

The 10th day of the seventh month
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

1st day 7th month
Le 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

Sister, the understanding of all these Sabbaths will change with a change in our understanding of the days of the week in Genesis since Joshua. The Jews were given many annual celebrations that illustrated the plan of salvation until God cleanses the earth with fire on the second death. These celebrations begin and end on a Sabbath in Jerusalem that can fall anywhere on the week, unlike the weekly Sabbath which always falls at the same spot every week. These annual Sabbaths are based on the weekly Sabbath, ready since God made the world by God having rested on the seventh day of the week of creation to be kept every week more frequently than the annual Sabbaths. The message of the book of Hebrews is about the weekly Sabbath cycle and will also change these other annual Sabbaths that can fall anywhere in the week. Basically, the plan of salvation revealed in the annual celebrations is fixed in the time zone of Eden. We all keep them together so that when it starts in Jerusalem, it starts for everyone together and not separate as with the human tradition of the weekly Sabbath since Joshua.

This passage obviously speaks of the rest when Jesus (Joshau) caused them to inherit the land.
God already finished the heavens in the beginning the rest of our inheritance.

Not allowing them to enter the Promised Land is an earlier separate punishment which is not the Sabbath "ready since He made the world". During the beginning of the 40 years, they were also prevented from entering the Sabbath by "oath" as an additional punishment. They later entered the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week in the desert with Manna. This new understanding of the days of the week, where keeping the seventh day of the week made them half a day late in entering the Sabbath gives us "another day" for the Sabbath than the Sabbath thought since Joshua! What is corrected from human tradition in the passage is the days of the week ready since God made the world. This different view of the days of the week effects our view of how the Sabbath is kept in Jerusalem, being earlier than the seventh day of the week.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

You are making stuff up. Just because only one woman is mentioned does not mean no other women might have come to the well to draw water. It also does not mean it could not have been the time when women go forth to draw water

Brother, I am giving expressed context where Jesus tells us He is alone at the well to show why this passage does not contradict other uncontested passages: where we are told that "evening" is at the end of the day at sunset and not at midday as you say. For example, in the following passage, David's use of "evening" says that he will wait three full days that end at sunset for Jonathan's signal. Jonathan quickly gave David the signal early in the morning way before David's full day of hiding until the end of the day at the "evening" sunset.

David replied, “Tomorrow we celebrate the new moon festival. I’ve always eaten with the king on this occasion, but tomorrow I’ll hide in the field and stay there until the evening of the third day. If your father asks where I am, tell him I asked permission to go home to Bethlehem for an annual family sacrifice. If he says, ‘Fine!’ you will know all is well. But if he is angry and loses his temper, you will know he is determined to kill me. (1 Samuel 20:5-7 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

where we are told that "evening" is at the end of the day at sunset and not at midday as you say.

No, it is not me saying it: it is the Logos of the scripture, and without Him, the letter kills.

 

[ralliann]

No, it is not me saying it: it is the Logos of the scripture, and without Him, the letter kills.

Doesn't the calendar days of the month begin at night? Then the feast days (7) of unleavened bread begin
In the evening of the 14th day of the first month until the evening of the 21st day?