Did Judaism get the Sabbath right?

[guevaraj]

Brothers and Sisters, speaking of the first day in these forums, I have highlighted that the end of the first day was a “morning”, in capital letters below, when my brothers in Christ have focused on what they think is the beginning of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

When God says “let there be light”, the change from dark to light is faster than the meaning of the word “morning” and God is accurate in choosing not to use “morning” in the beginning of the first day as He does at the end of the first day of creation. Understanding the limits of the Sabbath in Israel with two evenings means that knowing one extreme gives you the other extreme of the days of the week. Since the first day ends in a “morning”, it allows us to see that it begins in a morning or in the special case of the first day at first light. The beginning of the first day is an instantaneous change from dark to light, different from the slow change of the word “morning” and therefore the word “morning” is not used. The first time a “morning” occurs is at the end of the first day, with a slow transition from dark to light, very different from the instantaneous onset of the first light. The first evening takes place in the middle of the first day, when the slow transition from light to dark occurs. God agrees to highlight the end of the first day and not focus on the beginning in the only passage in the Bible that details a Sabbath in Israel.

The Lord said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord. Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:26-32 NIV)​

Above, God begins with the “ninth” day to start the Sabbath of the tenth day, highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not the beginning of the Sabbath when both ends of the Sabbath are equal. This was overlooked as explained by the importance of the day of preparation. However, God highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not focusing on the beginning of the Sabbath helps us understand God’s limits on the first day in Genesis. The Bible only supports my point of view, the other views on the days of the week are “human tradition” based on the human assumption that a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week when Genesis tells us it is not a weekday. When God made the seventh day holy in Eden, He put the Sabbath in that time zone. Israel, as our example, keeps the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week because remembered it is in the Eden time zone. I summarize our different views from the previous passage.

1. it starts at the end of the ninth day to the end of the tenth day.
2. it starts in the middle of the ninth day to the middle of the tenth day. (guevaraj)
3. it starts at the beginning of the ninth day to the beginning of the tenth day.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Brothers and Sisters, I wrote a book on the subject of this thread. Pleased I am to report my first critical review by Readers' Favorite. Sincerely, Jorge

Book Review
Review Rating: 4 Stars

Christian - Non-Fiction
36 Pages
Reviewed on 05/16/2021

Reviewed by Daniel D Staats for Readers' Favorite

What does the International Date Line have to do with the location of the Garden of Eden, worshiping on the Sabbath, and proving the existence of God? Jorge Guevara answers this probing question in his concise and enjoyable book, Proof of God in the International Date Line. Jorge has taken it upon himself to show from the Bible when the Sabbath is to be observed, where the Garden of Eden is, and how the International Date Line gives proof of the very existence of God. He spends much time explaining how the Jews, as well as his fellow Seventh Day Adventists, have misunderstood the timing of the Sabbath. Jorge wants to clear up the misconceptions caused by man’s mistaken traditions and lead true followers of Christ back to true obedience of observing the true Sabbath.

Jorge Guevara takes a partial prophecy from Ellen G. White as a launching point for Proof of God in the International Date Line. In her prophecy concerning the Sabbath, she states that a fuller understanding will come as the time for the return of Christ nears. Jorge is sure we are in the last days and claims that God has led him to a fuller understanding of keeping the Sabbath. He proceeds to explain what God has shown him in connecting the prophecy with keeping the Sabbath according to the time from Eden, which he places on the International Date Line. Jorge writes in an easy-to-understand manner. He uses charts to help his readers easily understand his concepts. He emphatically explains his viewpoint as the true understanding of the Sabbath.

Copyright 2009-2021 ReadersFavorite.com

 

[ralliann]

Brothers and Sisters, speaking of the first day in these forums, I have highlighted that the end of the first day was a “morning”, in capital letters below, when my brothers in Christ have focused on what they think is the beginning of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

When God says “let there be light”, the change from dark to light is faster than the meaning of the word “morning” and God is accurate in choosing not to use “morning” in the beginning of the first day as He does at the end of the first day of creation. Understanding the limits of the Sabbath in Israel with two evenings means that knowing one extreme gives you the other extreme of the days of the week. Since the first day ends in a “morning”, it allows us to see that it begins in a morning or in the special case of the first day at first light. The beginning of the first day is an instantaneous change from dark to light, different from the slow change of the word “morning” and therefore the word “morning” is not used. The first time a “morning” occurs is at the end of the first day, with a slow transition from dark to light, very different from the instantaneous onset of the first light. The first evening takes place in the middle of the first day, when the slow transition from light to dark occurs. God agrees to highlight the end of the first day and not focus on the beginning in the only passage in the Bible that details a Sabbath in Israel.

The Lord said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord. Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:26-32 NIV)​

Above, God begins with the “ninth” day to start the Sabbath of the tenth day, highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not the beginning of the Sabbath when both ends of the Sabbath are equal. This was overlooked as explained by the importance of the day of preparation. However, God highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not focusing on the beginning of the Sabbath helps us understand God’s limits on the first day in Genesis. The Bible only supports my point of view, the other views on the days of the week are “human tradition” based on the human assumption that a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week when Genesis tells us it is not a weekday. When God made the seventh day holy in Eden, He put the Sabbath in that time zone. Israel, as our example, keeps the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week because remembered it is in the Eden time zone. I summarize our different views from the previous passage.

1. it starts at the end of the ninth day to the end of the tenth day.
2. it starts in the middle of the ninth day to the middle of the tenth day. (guevaraj)
3. it starts at the beginning of the ninth day to the beginning of the tenth day.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

There is not an option for the opinion of both in the above poll. The Hebrews counted other things differently. An example is years. As in the time frame of a kings reign, or the time frame of years. Civil year and liturgical years gives judaism two new years. I believe it is the same with days. Days of creation 24 hour period (civil) verses days of the temple service (liturgical). The daily continual sacrifices are morning and evening, day to day. Many have said that John's gospel was written from a temple perspective...we just do not think in terms of a Liturgical day.
John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

The morning and evening sacrifices continue during the feast days.
Le 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

The day begins liturgically with the morning sacrifice and the next day day liturgically does not begin until the next morning sacrifice. But there is night in between those days. The night follows the day (evening sacrifice) in a liturgical day. How can you assign a festival offering to a time period that occurs before the day for it begins? It belongs therefore to the previous day.

 

[guevaraj]

The night follows the day (evening sacrifice) in a liturgical day.

Sister, that is the pattern found in Genesis that defines the days of creation. Ignoring the Sabbath in Israel, the Bible constantly tells us that the “day” is before “night” from morning to morning. In the day of the week below, the “night” follows the “day”, unlike the Sabbath in Israel, where the “night” is before the “day”.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

The only 24-hour period outside of the normal first day from morning to morning of the creation week defined in Genesis is the Sabbath in Israel from evening to evening. In conclusion, the Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week, but something separate from the week that Judaism did not understand when it assumed that it was the seventh day of the week in Israel as it was in Eden.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

From evening to morning is the “night” half that ends each day of creation that began with the light half. I have highlighted the pattern in red from “light” to “morning” equivalent to a 24-hour period exemplified on the Sabbath from evening to evening which in the case of the creation week is from morning to morning.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ralliann]

Sister, that is the pattern found in Genesis that defines the days of creation. Ignoring the Sabbath in Israel, the Bible constantly tells us that the “day” is before “night” from morning to morning. In the day of the week below, the “night” follows the “day”, unlike the Sabbath in Israel, where the “night” is before the “day”.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

So what about the morning and evening sacrifices, called daily sacrifices? Thats what I asked concerning. As I said there are various ways the Hebrews count years. Having two new years. So what about a twelve hour day?​

The only 24-hour period outside of the normal first day from morning to morning of the creation week defined in Genesis is the Sabbath in Israel from evening to evening. In conclusion, the Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week, but something separate from the week that Judaism did not understand when it assumed that it was the seventh day of the week in Israel as it was in Eden.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

From evening to morning is the “night” half that ends each day of creation that began with the light half. I have highlighted the pattern in red from “light” to “morning” equivalent to a 24-hour period exemplified on the Sabbath from evening to evening which in the case of the creation week is from morning to morning.

It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:32 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

What about the daily sacrifices morn to evening?

 

[guevaraj]

So what about the morning and evening sacrifices, called daily sacrifices? Thats what I asked concerning.

Sister, the second “evening” sacrifice that you refer to is not the best translation of the original, it is the moment when Jesus died before the beginning of the "evening" Sabbath in Israel. A better translation below is “between the evenings” rather than the word evening as translated it is in other versions.

you prepare the first lamb in the morning, and you prepare the second lamb between the evenings; (Exodus 29:39 LSV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ralliann]

Sister, the second “evening” sacrifice that you refer to is not the best translation of the original, it is the moment when Jesus died before the beginning of the "evening" Sabbath in Israel. A better translation below is “between the evenings” rather than the word evening as translated it is in other versions.

you prepare the first lamb in the morning, and you prepare the second lamb between the evenings; (Exodus 29:39 LSV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I am asking about the daily sacrifices, given morning and evening. What does daily mean?
Doesn't it mean that every day the priests sacrificed in the morning of that day and in the evening of that same day?

 

[guevaraj]

What does daily mean?

Sister, from what you have written, I gather that you want to know whether of that day refers to 12 hours or 24 hours. I found a verse that clearly makes this word form used in Exodus 29:38 refer to the light half of a day of the week.

turn night into day; in the face of the darkness light is near. (Job 17:12 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Jorge, why is it you are so fixated about when a day begins when we all should be proclaiming to the World a loving Savior who has given all mankind a new covenant with love being the greatest commandment of all?

What difference does it make when the day starts? I vote it starts at noon. Yes, I proclaim noon is the best time to start a day.

Now why don't you put it to rest and start proclaiming Love, the greatest theme in the Holy Writ.

 

[guevaraj]

Jorge, why is it you are so fixated about when a day begins when we all should be proclaiming to the World a loving Savior who has given all mankind a new covenant with love being the greatest commandment of all? What difference does it make when the day starts? I vote it starts at noon. Yes, I proclaim noon is the best time to start a day. Now why don't you put it to rest and start proclaiming Love, the greatest theme in the Holy Writ.

Brother, I show my love for God by keeping His "true" Sabbath and not a "human tradition" instead of His Sabbath.

"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)​

The Sabbath is a blessing to all people: it reminds us that our creator meets all of our needs when we "in truth" remember when He completed His creative week by making the seventh day in Eden "holy" and teaching Israel as our example to remember that "holy" Sabbath.

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:19-24 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

There is not an option for the opinion of both in the above poll. The Hebrews counted other things differently. An example is years. As in the time frame of a kings reign, or the time frame of years. Civil year and liturgical years gives judaism two new years. I believe it is the same with days. Days of creation 24 hour period (civil) verses days of the temple service (liturgical). The daily continual sacrifices are morning and evening, day to day. Many have said that John's gospel was written from a temple perspective...we just do not think in terms of a Liturgical day.
John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

The morning and evening sacrifices continue during the feast days.
Le 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

The day begins liturgically with the morning sacrifice and the next day day liturgically does not begin until the next morning sacrifice. But there is night in between those days. The night follows the day (evening sacrifice) in a liturgical day. How can you assign a festival offering to a time period that occurs before the day for it begins? It belongs therefore to the previous day.

Very well put, imo, and that liturgical, as you say, is also known as the sacred calendar day, which is seven hours in a day, and reveals the answer to the puzzling shabuim time prophecies given in Daniel the Prophet, and which sacred calendar day also corresponds to the hours of the crucifixion: third hour, sixth hour, ninth hour, (Mark 15:25, Mark 15:33).

 

[daq]

What difference does it make when the day starts? I vote it starts at noon. Yes, I proclaim noon is the best time to start a day.

Excellent. And whether or not you were serious, (and I understand you were probably just kidding, but either way), on sundial time that is indeed the most clearly pinpointed time of the day by the shadow of the sun when it is directly overhead.

 

[daq]

Brothers and Sisters, speaking of the first day in these forums, I have highlighted that the end of the first day was a “morning”, in capital letters below, when my brothers in Christ have focused on what they think is the beginning of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

Dear Jorge, I understand that you mean well, but it is entirely illogical to believe the opening creation account speaks of the natural and physical creation while holding to a heliocentric model of our solar system, which you do indeed hold to because you are counting the commencement of the Shabbat according to the International Date Line, which obviously depends on planet earth being a spinning globe or spheroid.

A physical and natural interpretation of the opening creation account literally ends up in a flat earth cosmology: whether the adherent wishes to admit it or not. Here is the late Biblical Hebrew scholar Dr. Michael Heiser's rendition of the physical cosmology in the creation narrative when the opening creation account is taken to be speaking of the natural creation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is the Official SDA view of the Sabbath for those who might be confused by the OP as that is not an SDA teaching, but unique to the OP.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

What Adventists Believe about the Sabbath - Adventist.org

Adventists are most famously known for their observance of Saturday as Sabbath, let's learn why.

www.adventist.org

 

[Gary K]

Brothers and Sisters, speaking of the first day in these forums, I have highlighted that the end of the first day was a “morning”, in capital letters below, when my brothers in Christ have focused on what they think is the beginning of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

When God says “let there be light”, the change from dark to light is faster than the meaning of the word “morning” and God is accurate in choosing not to use “morning” in the beginning of the first day as He does at the end of the first day of creation. Understanding the limits of the Sabbath in Israel with two evenings means that knowing one extreme gives you the other extreme of the days of the week. Since the first day ends in a “morning”, it allows us to see that it begins in a morning or in the special case of the first day at first light. The beginning of the first day is an instantaneous change from dark to light, different from the slow change of the word “morning” and therefore the word “morning” is not used. The first time a “morning” occurs is at the end of the first day, with a slow transition from dark to light, very different from the instantaneous onset of the first light. The first evening takes place in the middle of the first day, when the slow transition from light to dark occurs. God agrees to highlight the end of the first day and not focus on the beginning in the only passage in the Bible that details a Sabbath in Israel.

The Lord said to Moses, “The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present a food offering to the Lord. Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:26-32 NIV)​

Above, God begins with the “ninth” day to start the Sabbath of the tenth day, highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not the beginning of the Sabbath when both ends of the Sabbath are equal. This was overlooked as explained by the importance of the day of preparation. However, God highlighting the end of the Sabbath in the previous day of the week and not focusing on the beginning of the Sabbath helps us understand God’s limits on the first day in Genesis. The Bible only supports my point of view, the other views on the days of the week are “human tradition” based on the human assumption that a Sabbath in Israel is a day of the week when Genesis tells us it is not a weekday. When God made the seventh day holy in Eden, He put the Sabbath in that time zone. Israel, as our example, keeps the Sabbath in the Eden time zone. The Sabbath in Israel is not a day of the week because remembered it is in the Eden time zone. I summarize our different views from the previous passage.

1. it starts at the end of the ninth day to the end of the tenth day.
2. it starts in the middle of the ninth day to the middle of the tenth day. (guevaraj)
3. it starts at the beginning of the ninth day to the beginning of the tenth day.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

So the fact that the world was in darkness before God created light means there were two evenings in the first day? Very strange. I find your logic incomprehensible.

 

[guevaraj]

So the fact that the world was in darkness before God created light means there were two evenings in the first day? Very strange. I find your logic incomprehensible.

Brother, the darkness before the light is not an evening as you well know an evening at sunset is the transition from light to dark. An evening requires light first to transition from day to night. The week of creation is not the beginning of creation. There are two different periods of time separated by first light in the week of creation. Everything before first light in the week of creation happened long before the week of creation, an unspecified time earlier than first light on the week of creation. God came to an already existing earth to turn it into a home for us during the week of creation.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:1-2 NLT)​

A lot of time passed between the earlier beginning above before the light below and the later moment below that begins the week of creation with first light. The first day is from first light to light again in the morning and the days following from morning to morning. Evening falls in the middle of the first day, separating the first light God called "day" and the first darkness God called "night" in that order.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

The order given above of "day" before "night" is verified in the following passage where the previous night is the day before and the next night to come is part of the current day.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

This is the Official SDA view of the Sabbath for those who might be confused by the OP as that is not an SDA teaching, but unique to the OP.

Sister, the correction of the Sabbath from human tradition is in the book of Hebrews but the King James Version (KJV) misidentified "Joshua" before David as "Jesus", forcing the message to seem to refer to the present after Jesus when the original message was about a past mistake in the understanding of the Sabbath by Joshua when they transitioned to a different Sabbath without Manna in the Promised Land. For forty years, when they kept the seventh day with Manna, God tells us in Hebrews that He had punished them not to enter His "day" of rest available since the first week of creation, which they later entered in the Promised Land at an earlier time than the seventh day of the week. Joshua did not pay any attention to the change from a day of the week from morning to morning to the evening to evening Sabbath and assumed wrongly that this earlier Sabbath, from evening to evening, was also the seventh day of the week in the Promised Land, overlooking the fact that the days of the week were in the desert from morning to morning for 40 years.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 KJV)​

The above blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus is later corrected without correcting its forced twisting effect on the rest of the passage.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. (Hebrews 4:8 NKJV)​

This blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus hid the true message of the book of Hebrews for generations of readers of the English translation of the scriptures when Jesus wanted us to keep His first week's Sabbath "day" corrected from human tradition since Joshua, where Joshua wrongly thought the Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath is fixed in the time zone of Eden and falls at a different time in Jerusalem, half a day before the seventh day of the week. The KJV twisted the message of the passage to fit their misidentification that many other translations followed even after the misidentification was corrected, but not corrected was its effect on the rest of the message in the book of Hebrews. Many translations continue the error started by the KJV's misidentification of Joshua as Jesus in Hebrews, chapter 4, when Jesus was not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath be mistranslated as the "gospel" of Jesus. The wrong translation of "gospel" for the phrase the "good news" of entering the Sabbath has influenced wrongly many other Bible translations after the KJV. The newer NKJV fixes the misidentification of Joshua as Jesus but not its effect on the rest of the passage, like the "gospel" of Jesus (not possible before David), for the phrase, the "good news" of entering the Sabbath, first heard by those that died in the desert.

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. (Hebrews 4:2 NKJV)​

The blunder of misidentifying Joshua as Jesus changed the below "good news" of entering the Sabbath to the above "gospel" of Jesus, forcing the message to seem to be about the present when it is about a past misunderstanding of the Sabbath. The New Living Translation (NLT) was a complete effort from the original languages which finally corrected this twisting of the scriptures by the KJV that influenced so many other translations.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

Those, like Joshua, who first heard the "good news", that God had prepared this rest" since the first week of creation, were punished not to enter the Sabbath by an "oath" near the Promised Land with Manna, that Joshua later entered before the seventh day of the week from evening to evening, having been prevented from entering the Sabbath with Manna for 40 years from morning to morning near the Promised Land. In the following Hebrews passage corrected from the blunder of the KJV, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in the time zone of creation half a day before the seventh day in Jerusalem. We do not automatically enter the "day" of rest by accepting the "good news" of entering the Sabbath "announced to us just as it was to them" in the desert, like the KJV mistranslated. What we "can" enter is the "day" of rest in the new covenant "announced to us just as it was to them" by understanding how God prevented Joshua from entering the Sabbath for 40 years in the desert by punishing them by having them keep the seventh day of the week near the Promised Land when the Sabbath is entered earlier than the Seventh day of the week in the Promised Land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

A physical and natural interpretation of the opening creation account literally ends up in a flat earth cosmology: whether the adherent wishes to admit it or not. Here is the late Biblical Hebrew scholar Dr. Michael Heiser's rendition of the physical cosmology in the creation narrative when the opening creation account is taken to be speaking of the natural creation.

Brother, the following passage from the book of Job reveals a spherical earth as I will show below with the second image as a cross-sectional area of the first image on the boundary between day and night. The Earth is a circle drawn within the waters of the atmosphere at the boundary between day and night, building the understanding of a sphere for the Earth as the sun moves from east to west throughout the day.

He drew a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between day and night. (Job 26:10 NLT fixed)​

The cross sectional area between the day and night above would look like the below earth circle within the water in the atmosphere.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Excellent. And whether or not you were serious, (and I understand you were probably just kidding, but either way), on sundial time that is indeed the most clearly pinpointed time of the day by the shadow of the sun when it is directly overhead.

Brother, don't you know that the sun moves all year round? What you describe as determining when to close the doors to begin the Sabbath in Jerusalem only happens twice a year at best.

Something that only happens twice a year would be impractical to determine when to close the doors each week. The passage says when the gates, plural, meaning all the ten gates of Jerusalem were shaded and not just the one you chose when the other gates are not doing the same.

And it came to be, when the gates of Yerushalayim were shaded before the Sabbath, that I commanded the doors to be shut, and commanded that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath. And I stationed some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day. (Nehemiah 13:19 TS2009)​

The passage also says "when the gates of Jerusalem were shaded" and not as you say when the ground under the gates were shaded. The gates are larger solid doors than the smaller doors used by people in the following photo.

The only time all ten gates facing all four directions are all shaded at the same time is in the morning sunrise or in the evening sunset. Since the Sabbath does not start in Jerusalem in the morning, it must refer to all gates being shaded before the Sabbath at the evening sunset.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brother, the following passage from the book of Job reveals a spherical earth as I will show below with the second image as a cross-sectional area of the first image on the boundary between day and night. The Earth is a circle drawn within the waters of the atmosphere at the boundary between day and night, building the understanding of a sphere for the Earth as the sun moves from east to west throughout the day.

He drew a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between day and night. (Job 26:10 NLT fixed)​

The cross sectional area between the day and night above would look like the below earth circle within the water in the atmosphere.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Do you think I need science lessons? If so you did not understand my point. According to your understanding, please explain the raqiya or firmament in the opening creation account, which is then called Shamayim, usually rendered in English as Heavens or Heaven. Please explain how the firmament divides the waters above it from the waters below it. Please explain what and where are the waters above the firmament in the opening creation account, and explain whether you believe those waters are still there or not, and if not then please explain what happened to them. Then please explain how it is that the luminaries and stars are placed within the firmament of the heavens, (raqiya of the shamayim), and how this is shown to be true in your observations and knowledge of the natural creation.

Please understand also that I am not a flat earther: if that is what you think then you are completely missing the point. However flat earthers are correct in some of their observations in the opening creation account: there is a firmament according to the opening creation account, and there are waters stated to be above the firmament and below the firmament, and the luminaries and the stars are indeed placed within the firmament in the fourth day of the opening creation account.

Now therefore please provide the science diagrams and image files that explain all these things which are actually written in the scripture in the opening creation account.