Did Judaism get the Sabbath right?

[Gary K]

Brother, don't you know that the sun moves all year round? What you describe as determining when to close the doors to begin the Sabbath in Jerusalem only happens twice a year at best.

Something that only happens twice a year would be impractical to determine when to close the doors each week. The passage says when the gates, plural, meaning all the ten gates of Jerusalem were shaded and not just the one you chose when the other gates are not doing the same.

And it came to be, when the gates of Yerushalayim were shaded before the Sabbath, that I commanded the doors to be shut, and commanded that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath. And I stationed some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day. (Nehemiah 13:19 TS2009)​

The passage also says "when the gates of Jerusalem were shaded" and not as you say when the ground under the gates were shaded. The gates are larger solid doors than the smaller doors used by people in the following photo.

The only time all ten gates facing all four directions are all shaded at the same time is in the morning sunrise or in the evening sunset. Since the Sabbath does not start in Jerusalem in the morning, it must refer to all gates being shaded before the Sabbath at the evening sunset.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Sp, you've discovered the mistake Jesus missed while here on earth and during the creation week. You must be smarter than God.

 

[daq]

Brother, don't you know that the sun moves all year round? What you describe as determining when to close the doors to begin the Sabbath in Jerusalem only happens twice a year at best.

Something that only happens twice a year would be impractical to determine when to close the doors each week. The passage says when the gates, plural, meaning all the ten gates of Jerusalem were shaded and not just the one you chose when the other gates are not doing the same.

And it came to be, when the gates of Yerushalayim were shaded before the Sabbath, that I commanded the doors to be shut, and commanded that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath. And I stationed some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day. (Nehemiah 13:19 TS2009)​

The passage also says "when the gates of Jerusalem were shaded" and not as you say when the ground under the gates were shaded. The gates are larger solid doors than the smaller doors used by people in the following photo.

The only time all ten gates facing all four directions are all shaded at the same time is in the morning sunrise or in the evening sunset. Since the Sabbath does not start in Jerusalem in the morning, it must refer to all gates being shaded before the Sabbath at the evening sunset.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That was a response to what poster Bob S had said:

What difference does it make when the day starts? I vote it starts at noon. Yes, I proclaim noon is the best time to start a day.

Excellent. And whether or not you were serious, (and I understand you were probably just kidding, but either way), on sundial time that is indeed the most clearly pinpointed time of the day by the shadow of the sun when it is directly overhead.

Your reply to my response to what Bob S had said doesn't make any sense in that context.

Follow the context and heed what is taught in the following passage:

1 Samuel 20:5-42 KJV
5 And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.
6 If thy father at all miss me, then say, David earnestly asked leave of me that he might run to Bethlehem his city: for there is a yearly sacrifice there for all the family.
7 If he say thus, It is well; thy servant shall have peace: but if he be very wroth, then be sure that evil is determined by him.
8 Therefore thou shalt deal kindly with thy servant; for thou hast brought thy servant into a covenant of the LORD with thee: notwithstanding, if there be in me iniquity, slay me thyself; for why shouldest thou bring me to thy father?
9 And Jonathan said, Far be it from thee: for if I knew certainly that evil were determined by my father to come upon thee, then would not I tell it thee?
10 Then said David to Jonathan, Who shall tell me? or what if thy father answer thee roughly?
11 And Jonathan said unto David, Come, and let us go out into the field. And they went out both of them into the field.
12 And Jonathan said unto David, O LORD God of Israel, when I have sounded my father about to morrow any time, or the third day, and, behold, if there be good toward David, and I then send not unto thee, and shew it thee;
13 The LORD do so and much more to Jonathan: but if it please my father to do thee evil, then I will shew it thee, and send thee away, that thou mayest go in peace: and the LORD be with thee, as he hath been with my father.
14 And thou shalt not only while yet I live shew me the kindness of the LORD, that I die not:
15 But also thou shalt not cut off thy kindness from my house for ever: no, not when the LORD hath cut off the enemies of David every one from the face of the earth.
16 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, Let the LORD even require it at the hand of David's enemies.
17 And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul.
18 Then Jonathan said to David, To morrow is the new moon: and thou shalt be missed, because thy seat will be empty.
19 And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by the stone Ezel.
20 And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark.
21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the LORD liveth.
22 But if I say thus unto the young man, Behold, the arrows are beyond thee; go thy way: for the LORD hath sent thee away.
23 And as touching the matter which thou and I have spoken of, behold, the LORD be between thee and me for ever.
24 So David hid himself in the field: and when the new moon was come, the king sat him down to eat meat.
25 And the king sat upon his seat, as at other times, even upon a seat by the wall: and Jonathan arose, and Abner sat by Saul's side, and David's place was empty.
26 Nevertheless Saul spake not any thing that day: for he thought, Something hath befallen him, he is not clean; surely he is not clean.
27 And it came to pass on the morrow, which was the second day of the month, that David's place was empty: and Saul said unto Jonathan his son, Wherefore cometh not the son of Jesse to meat, neither yesterday, nor to day?
28 And Jonathan answered Saul, David earnestly asked leave of me to go to Bethlehem:
29 And he said, Let me go, I pray thee; for our family hath a sacrifice in the city; and my brother, he hath commanded me to be there: and now, if I have found favour in thine eyes, let me get away, I pray thee, and see my brethren. Therefore he cometh not unto the king's table.
30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
31 For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die.
32 And Jonathan answered Saul his father, and said unto him, Wherefore shall he be slain? what hath he done?
33 And Saul cast a javelin at him to smite him: whereby Jonathan knew that it was determined of his father to slay David.
34 So Jonathan arose from the table in fierce anger, and did eat no meat the second day of the month: for he was grieved for David, because his father had done him shame.
35 And it came to pass in the morning, that Jonathan went out into the field at the time appointed with David, and a little lad with him.
36 And he said unto his lad, Run, find out now the arrows which I shoot. And as the lad ran, he shot an arrow beyond him.
37 And when the lad was come to the place of the arrow which Jonathan had shot, Jonathan cried after the lad, and said, Is not the arrow beyond thee?
38 And Jonathan cried after the lad, Make speed, haste, stay not. And Jonathan's lad gathered up the arrows, and came to his master.
39 But the lad knew not any thing: only Jonathan and David knew the matter.
40 And Jonathan gave his artillery unto his lad, and said unto him, Go, carry them to the city.
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
42 And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.

The appointed time of 1 Samuel 20:35a is the time of evening, at the beginning of the third day of the month, which was plainly stated at the beginning of the passage in 1 Samuel 20:5. Yonathan goes out into the field in the morning with the lad and surely fires the three arrows at midday, the commencement of the time of evening, the time when women go forth to draw water, which immediately follows the sixth hour of the day, (Gen 24:11, 1 Sam 9:11, Jhn 4:6-7), as has been explained from the scripture many times now in our various discussions.

 

[daq]

Genesis 24:11 LSV (Literal Standard Version)
11 and he causes the camels to kneel at the outside of the city, at the well of water, at evening, at the time of the coming out of the women who draw water.

1) It is the time of evening: the time when women go forth to draw water.
2) Then the servant of Abraham says a prayer, Gen 24:12-14.
3) Then, as he is yet speaking, Rebekah comes to draw water, Gen 24:15-16.
4) Then the servant runs to greet Rebekah and asks for a drink of water, Gen 24:17.
5) Then Rebekah gives him a drink and offers to draw water for his camels also, and does so, Gen 24:18-21.
6) Then, after watering the camels, the servant brings forth gifts, and they have a discussion, Gen 24:22-25.
7) Then the servant bows his head and gives thanks in prayer unto Elohim, Gen 24:26-27.
8) Then Rebekah runs back to the house and informs the household of these things, Gen 24:28.
9) Then Laban runs out to the well to meet the servant of Abraham, Gen 24:29.
10) Laban has prepared the house and has made room for the camels, Gen 24:30.
11) Laban greets the servant and invites him into their house, Gen 24:30-31.
12) Then the servant comes to the house, ungirds his camels, gives his camels straw and fodder, and he and those with him are given water to wash their feet and they wash their feet, Gen 24:32.
13) At this time it is the evening meal, Gen 24:33, which is the principle meal in ancient times, and this is typically right around the same time as the evening oblation, which is between the evening hours of the day, ("between the evenings").
14) Then the servant refuses to eat until he has told them of his errand, and he proceeds to tell them the whole story and reason for his having been sent by his master Abraham, and recounts everything including the events which had transpired that day at the well, Gen 24:33-49.
15) Then they eat and drink, also the men with him, and the servant brings forth more gifts for Rebekah and also for her brother Laban and his wife, Gen 24:50-54.
16) Lastly, concerning this day, we are told that the servant and those with him tarried the night there, Gen 24:54.
17) THERE IS NO WAY THAT "THE TIME OF EVENING" HERE IS SUNDOWN, TWILIGHT, OR NIGHTFALL.

Regarding #17, the same is true of 1 Samuel 9:11 and John 4:6-7 in their respective contexts.

 

[BobRyan]

Brothers and Sisters, speaking of the first day in these forums, I have highlighted that the end of the first day was a “morning”,

In Genesis 1 "and morning and evening were the first day" -- so the 'next morning" i part of day 2 not part of day 1.

in capital letters below, when my brothers in Christ have focused on what they think is the beginning of the first day.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

So then - then end of morning is the end of that first day. That first morning ended at evening which marks the beginning of the next day.

a you posted "there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day."

So the end of morning is the end of the first day in Genesis 1.

When God says “let there be light”, the change from dark to light is faster than the meaning of the word “morning”

Indeed - it is not meant to convey the normal evening morning sequence on an Earth with no light. Rather "during the first day" the first half of that day is night -- evening. Then "lights come on" Mid-way through that day and Earth finally has its morning (the second half of the first day" which ends with the start of Evening -- which starts the second day in Gen 1.

 

[guevaraj]

In Genesis 1 "and morning and evening were the first day" -- so the 'next morning" i part of day 2 not part of day 1.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, December 1, 2023 at 9:34 AM EST! The first day is made up of the two periods God called "day" and "night" in that order: from morning to evening is the light half and from evening to morning is the night half for a combined first day of first light to light again in the morning. First light takes the place of what would have been the first morning if it were not special case having occurred faster than a typical morning. First light being a type of morning shows that morning refers to an instant change as it was with first light taking the place of the instance we call sunrise.

So then - then end of morning is the end of that first day. That first morning ended at evening which marks the beginning of the next day.

The end and the beginning of each day fall on the same "morning" sunrise as shown with the Sabbath in Jerusalem where the start and end of the period of the Sabbath-day in Jerusalem fall on the same "evening" sunset. However, a Sabbath in Jerusalem is not a day of the week from morning to morning as in Genesis. That is the mistake corrected in Hebrews since Joshua where they were prevented from entering the Sabbath for 40 years with Manna by God having them keep the true seventh day of the week from morning to morning which is half a day too late to have entered correctly the Sabbath near Jerusalem.

a you posted "there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day." So the end of morning is the end of the first day in Genesis 1.

You are thinking of morning as the period God called "day" when God chose not to use "day" when instead He used "morning" because "morning" is not the period He called "day" and refers instead to the precise instance we call sunrise.

Indeed - it is not meant to convey the normal evening morning sequence on an Earth with no light. Rather "during the first day" the first half of that day is night -- evening. Then "lights come on" Mid-way through that day and Earth finally has its morning (the second half of the first day" which ends with the start of Evening -- which starts the second day in Gen 1.

There is no need to correct what God is saying. God is more precise in his use of words than humans. The fact is that the first evening can only take place after there is light because it is the transition from day to night. If you know what the word evening means than you must understand that it takes place in the middle of the first day after first light.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

THERE IS NO WAY THAT "THE TIME OF EVENING" HERE IS SUNDOWN, TWILIGHT, OR NIGHTFALL.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, December 1, 2023 at 9:34 AM EST! The passage says the man asked Rebekah in the "evening" for room to put him up for the "night" and her brother came "running" to do so while the man was still standing at the spring beside his camels drinking Rebekah's water at the end of the day. If it were in the middle of the day her brother would not have to run to provide room for the man while he is still beside his camels who are drinking Rebekah's water.

“Whose daughter are you?” he asked. “And please tell me, would your father have any room to put us up for the night (luwn)?” (Genesis 24:23 NLT)​

He was put up for the "night" quickly in the evening by Rebekah's brother who "ran" while "the man was still standing beside his camels" who are drinking the water Rebekah gave them.

The young woman ran (ruts) home to tell her family everything that had happened. Now Rebekah had a brother named Laban, who ran (ruts) out to meet the man at the spring. He had seen the nose-ring and the bracelets on his sister’s wrists, and had heard Rebekah tell what the man had said. So he rushed out (bo) to the spring, where the man was still standing beside his camels. Laban said to him, “Come and stay with us, you who are blessed by the LORD! Why are you standing here outside the town when I have a room all ready for you and a place prepared for the camels?” (Genesis 24:28-31 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

The appointed time of 1 Samuel 20:35a is the time of evening, at the beginning of the third day of the month, which was plainly stated at the beginning of the passage in 1 Samuel 20:5. Yonathan goes out into the field in the morning with the lad and surely fires the three arrows at midday, the commencement of the time of evening,

Brother, David's use of "evening" is to say that he will wait three full days for Jonathan's signal. Jonathan quickly gives David the signal early in the morning way before David's full day of hiding until the end of the day at the evening sunset.

David replied, “Tomorrow we celebrate the new moon festival. I’ve always eaten with the king on this occasion, but tomorrow I’ll hide in the field and stay there until the evening of the third day. If your father asks where I am, tell him I asked permission to go home to Bethlehem for an annual family sacrifice. If he says, ‘Fine!’ you will know all is well. But if he is angry and loses his temper, you will know he is determined to kill me. (1 Samuel 20:5-7 NLT)​

the time when women go forth to draw water, which immediately follows the sixth hour of the day, (Gen 24:11, 1 Sam 9:11, Jhn 4:6-7), as has been explained from the scripture many times now in our various discussions.

One woman at midday giving Jesus water does not make midday the time when all women go out to get water at the end of the day. In this next passage where there is more than one woman gathering water we know that it is evening and therefore the sacrifice is that of the Passover eaten at night. At the end of the day when Saul had but given up searching for the donkeys his servant suggested seeing Samuel the prophet.

As they were climbing the hill to the town, they met some young women coming out to draw water. So Saul and his servant asked, “Is the seer here today?” “Yes,” they replied. “Stay right on this road. He is at the town gates. He has just arrived to take part in a public sacrifice up at the place of worship. Hurry and catch him before he goes up there to eat. The guests won’t begin eating until he arrives to bless the food.” So they entered the town, and as they passed through the gates, Samuel was coming out toward them to go up to the place of worship. (1 Samuel 9:11-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Sp, you've discovered the mistake Jesus missed while here on earth

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday, December 1, 2023 at 9:34 AM EST! Judaism has the correct Sabbath in Jerusalem that Jesus kept, but a wrong view of the day of the week.

“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

and during the creation week. You must be smarter than God.

I'm just a good listener of what has been revealed!

“The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions. (Deuteronomy 29:29 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Do you think I need science lessons?

Brother, before the science of genetics, God took Eve from out of Adam. Now we know that the instructions for making a women are inside a man.

If so you did not understand my point. According to your understanding, please explain the raqiya or firmament in the opening creation account, which is then called Shamayim, usually rendered in English as Heavens or Heaven.

What's wrong with the following translation?

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

Please explain how the firmament divides the waters above it from the waters below it. Please explain what and where are the waters above the firmament in the opening creation account, and explain whether you believe those waters are still there or not, and if not then please explain what happened to them.

The waters above are vapor in clouds heated by the light of the day helping to retain heat during the night. The waters above in the clouds are still there in a constant exchange through rain and evaporation of the waters in the seas.

Then please explain how it is that the luminaries and stars are placed within the firmament of the heavens, (raqiya of the shamayim), and how this is shown to be true in your observations and knowledge of the natural creation.

This "sky (shamayim)" God named is transparent allows us to see the starts through it.

Please understand also that I am not a flat earther: if that is what you think then you are completely missing the point. However flat earthers are correct in some of their observations in the opening creation account: there is a firmament according to the opening creation account, and there are waters stated to be above the firmament and below the firmament, and the luminaries and the stars are indeed placed within the firmament in the fourth day of the opening creation account.

The stars were there before the week of creation and are seen through the space (raqia) God named as the "sky (shamayim)".

Now therefore please provide the science diagrams and image files that explain all these things which are actually written in the scripture in the opening creation account.

I couldn't find one! The firmament (raqia) is the space (raqia) between the waters of the heavens and the waters of the Earth that God called "sky (shamayim)".

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Brother, I show my love for God by keeping His "true" Sabbath and not a "human tradition" instead of His Sabbath.

Jesus said:
Matthew 25:40
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Brother, I show my love for God by keeping His "true" Sabbath and not a "human tradition" instead of His Sabbath.

Matthew 25:40
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

True love is not keeping old covenant ritual days. Real love is how we treat our fellow man. I have never read even one of your posts that was not trying to prove Sabbath, Sabbath, Sabbath and when it begins. Isn't there more to life?

Do you not believe that those who assemble for worship on any other day are not blessed?

"You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)​

The Sabbath is a blessing to all people: it reminds us that our creator meets all of our needs when we "in truth" remember when He completed His creative week by making the seventh day in Eden "holy" and teaching Israel as our example to remember that "holy" Sabbath.

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.” “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” (John 4:19-24 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brother, before the science of genetics, God took Eve from out of Adam. Now we know that the instructions for making a women are inside a man.

What's wrong with the following translation?

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

The waters above are vapor in clouds heated by the light of the day helping to retain heat during the night. The waters above in the clouds are still there in a constant exchange through rain and evaporation of the waters in the seas.

This "sky (shamayim)" God named is transparent allows us to see the starts through it.

The stars were there before the week of creation and are seen through the space (raqia) God named as the "sky (shamayim)".

I couldn't find one! The firmament (raqia) is the space (raqia) between the waters of the heavens and the waters of the Earth that God called "sky (shamayim)".

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Exactly, you preach that the sun, moon, and stars, are in earth's atmosphere according to your theories: and yet, you are not even aware that this is what you are preaching, or that it is flat-earth reasoning. This is what happens when you ignore scripture statements and think it will all work itself out in the end while you continue with your beloved paradigm.

 

[daq]

Brother, before the science of genetics, God took Eve from out of Adam. Now we know that the instructions for making a women are inside a man.

What's wrong with the following translation?

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

The waters above are vapor in clouds heated by the light of the day helping to retain heat during the night. The waters above in the clouds are still there in a constant exchange through rain and evaporation of the waters in the seas.

This "sky (shamayim)" God named is transparent allows us to see the starts through it.

The stars were there before the week of creation and are seen through the space (raqia) God named as the "sky (shamayim)".

I couldn't find one! The firmament (raqia) is the space (raqia) between the waters of the heavens and the waters of the Earth that God called "sky (shamayim)".

Then God said, “Let there be a space (raqia) between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” And that is what happened. God made this space (raqia) to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens. God called the space (raqia) “sky (shamayim)." (Genesis 1:6-8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Your translation, the NLT, cheats when it comes to the following passage:

Genesis 1:14-18 NLT
14Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1 NLT

It omits words from the text, and in this case it omits raqia three times, and does not render that word from the Hebrew text. The text has the raqia of the shamayim, and according to their translation of those words it should read, "the space of the sky". No doubt they do this because they know that if they included the word space it would confirm the buffoonery in their reasoning which has already been mentioned here in this thread.

Genesis 1:14-19 KJV
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

According to the actual words in the Hebrew text, the NLT is teaching that Elohim placed the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars in the space of the sky, which is also what you are teaching. That is the same flat earth cosmology already warned about on the previous page with the illustration by the late Dr. Michael Heiser in Reply #13.

 

[HIM]

Your translation, the NLT, cheats when it comes to the following passage:

Genesis 1:14-18 NLT
14Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1 NLT

It omits words from the text, and in this case it omits raqia three times, and does not render that word from the Hebrew text. The text has the raqia of the shamayim, and according to their translation of those words it should read, "the space of the sky". No doubt they do this because they know that if they included the word space it would confirm the buffoonery in their reasoning which has already been mentioned here in this thread.

Genesis 1:14-19 KJV
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament [raqia] of the heaven [shamayim] to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

According to the actual words in the Hebrew text, the NLT is teaching that Elohim placed the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars in the space of the sky, which is also what you are teaching. That is the same flat earth cosmology already warned about on the previous page with the illustration by the late Dr. Michael Heiser in Reply #13.

View attachment 339960

So Genesis one is not from God who is truth and can not lie?

 

[daq]

So Genesis one is not from God who is truth and can not lie?

Guess again. Genesis one is surely from Elohim Most High.

 

[guevaraj]

According to the actual words in the Hebrew text, the NLT is teaching that Elohim placed the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars in the space of the sky, which is also what you are teaching.

So Genesis one is not from God who is truth and can not lie?

Brothers, the original language has the inspired word of God! I have fixed the following translation by turning to the original language of what was mentioned to obtain God's true revelation on the matter. There are multiple spaces (raqia) God called "sky (shamayim)". Outer space is a different space than the space in our atmosphere! These objects are in outer space, which is a separate sky above the sky of our atmosphere because there is more than one sky in the original language's plural use of "sky (shamayim)" as the name given to multiple spaces (raqia).

Then God said, “Let lights appear in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. Let these lights in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set these lights in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) to light the earth, to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:14-18 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brothers, the original language has the inspired word of God! I have fixed the following translation by turning to the original language of what was mentioned to obtain God's true revelation on the matter. There are multiple spaces (raqia) God called "sky (shamayim)". Outer space is a different space than the space in our atmosphere! These objects are in outer space, which is a separate sky above the sky of our atmosphere because there is more than one sky in the original language's plural use of "sky (shamayim)" as the name given to multiple spaces (raqia).

Then God said, “Let lights appear in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. Let these lights in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set these lights in the space (raqia, singular) of the skies (shamayim, plural) to light the earth, to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:14-18 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Well, at least you are willing to acknowledge the error, however, correcting the text as you go is not the answer: you have only made matters worse. Please allow me to hint at an alternative reasoning found in the scripture.

Daniel 12:1-3 KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Malachi 4:1-3 KJV
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Matthew 13:40-43 KJV
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Again, hinting, not expounding: but there is a bright light of righteousness which is much more important in the scripture than the beggarly natural elements of the physical creation which are not gods.

 

[HIM]

Guess again. Genesis one is surely from Elohim Most High.

It seemed that was what you were saying sorry.

 

[guevaraj]

It seemed that was what you were saying sorry.

Brother, he can see that the first day is from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days are from morning to morning and needs to lower confidence in what he sees to defend a different view than what is plainly written.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[daq]

Brother, he can see that the first day is from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days are from morning to morning and needs to lower confidence in what he sees to defend a different view than what is plainly written.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That is simply not true and neither is the text you quoted for the umpteenth time.

ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד
"bay·hi-ereb, bay·hi-boqer, yom echad"
"and there is evening, and there is morning, yom echad"

That is all it says. There is nothing in the text about evening passing, or about morning coming, and the other five days of creation have the same exact wording except for the number of the yom. One evening and one morning constitute one yom, and the evening portion of the yom comes first, and as for the civil calendar day the evening portion is six hours and the morning portion is six hours, and the are twelve hours in a civil calendar day just as the Master says and also teaches in one of the parables.

When taking into account the other multiple threads where you and I have been discussing these things, for about a year now, you have denied so much scripture at this point that you should be the one the other poster is asking what he just asked me in a previous post.

 

[guevaraj]

One evening and one morning constitute one yom

Brother, we know that is not true because the Sabbath in Jerusalem lasts from evening to evening for one complete 360 degree revolution of the Earth. The only difference is that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is not a day of the week but falls half a day before the seventh day of the week.

And I will destroy anyone among you who does any work on that day (yum). You must not do any work at all! This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation wherever you live. This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown (ereb) on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown (ereb) on the tenth day.” (Leviticus 23:30-32 NLT)​

From evening to morning is only half 180 of a full 360 revolution of the Earth. A complete 360 degree revolution of the first day is from first light to light again in the morning. Evening falls in the middle of the first day! The "morning" (boqer) is the transition from "night" to "day" that we call sunrise, while the "evening" (ereb) is the transition from "day" to "night" that we call sunset.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening (ereb) passed and MORNING (boqer) came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge