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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Father, sons drowned teen daughter over her ‘Western lifestyle’

The countries are all in this region of the world, which points to overarching cultural reasons instead of religion. North africa and large parts of southeast asia are majority muslim, but they are not on that list.

View attachment 373866
For example, Indonesia is VERY muslim. 87% of the population are muslims. If you go by total population, it's the country with the most muslims. And yet they have no culture of honor killings, with the first recorded honor killing in 2020.


Are we denying that the prevailing religion of the region shapes culture more times than not?

You can always find some outliers. But when 9 out of the top 10 have a glaring similarity (and that similarity involves a doctrine, from which, you can draw a straight line to the behavior in question) it's not unreasonable for one to conclude that it's a factor.
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Churches vandalized in Sudan with Islamic Shahadah written on walls

Two churches in Port Sudan were defaced in coordinated acts of vandalism, with Islamic declarations painted in red graffiti on their exterior walls. The incidents occurred last week in the center of the city’s market area.

At the Sudan Evangelical Presbyterian Church, the Islamic Shahadah, which reads “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger,” was scrawled alongside a Qur’anic verse, “There is no God but He, the Lord of the Honorable Throne,” the U.K.-based group Christian Solidarity Worldwidereported.

On the walls of the nearby Orthodox Church, vandals sprayed the phrase “Allah is eternal.”

Continued below.

4 reactions to spiritual, allegorical concepts in 'Wicked: For Good'

Following the release of “Wicked: For Good,” many people have reacted to the film’s spiritual and allegorical elements and what it says about friendships, morality and the idea of good versus evil.

“Wicked: For Good,” which officially debuted in theatres on Nov. 21, is the second half of the film adaptation of the stage musical, which premiered on Broadway in 2003. The first movie, released in November 2024, covered Act One of the musical, while the latest film is an adaptation of Act Two.

Here are four notable reactions to “Wicked: For Good.”

Plugged In

Writing for Focus on the Family’s Plugged In, which reviews popular forms of entertainment to help families navigate the culture, Emily Tsiao wrote that “Wicked: For Good” is “just as magical and musical” as the first film. She also praised the movie’s “endearing story of enduring friendship,” which she predicted would drive many people to tears.

Continued below.

Spending on Welfare is 'unchristian'

How can that be?

I've heard socialism is the one with poverty; capitalism has none?

'The poor you will always have with you' Matthew 26:11.

Both socialism and capitalism are unjust and create poverty. Every human system in unjust, only God is perfect.

Or maybe it's that wealth is getting highly centralized and not flowing through the system and down to the workers very well. There is no incentive to work because PAY is poor. And if you are going to work HARD and be poor, you may as well be just as poor and not work.

The solution is wage increases.

You're right. IMHO many workers aren't paid very well, they're highly taxed and are not much better off than those who do not work. Companies very often treat employees very unfairly, another disincentive from working.

God Bless :)
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What would have happened to Adam and Eve and Cain after death?

Like for everyone else, repentance is key.
Be blessed
Genesis 4:25 NIV
[25] Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”

I think this verse implies that Cane eventually repented. But I cannot confirm it.
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GOD'S REAL ISRAEL AND THE TRUE CHURCH?

Sainthood signifies a positional status in Christ—being set apart by God for His special use and purpose. It does not imply sinless perfection, but a calling to live a life that reflects God's moral purity.

Just to clarify ...

The term "saints" in the New Testament epistles is used by Paul to address living members of the church (e.g., in Rome, Corinth, and Philippi), not just deceased individuals who have been canonized by a church.
Incorrect. Paul says, Ephesians 2:19,20. The whole building including the foundation is a dwelling place for GODS SPIRIT. Furthermore, in Hebrews 11:40 these preChrist saints of the same faith as you and I will be in the first resurrection with us, and only the church is in the first resurrection. These preChrist saints are the root of the olive tree in Romans 11:18 We, you and I are children of Abraham according to faith, the same faith Abraham and all these ancient saints had. The church did not begin on Pentecost. Pentecost was stage 2 the calling of the Gentiles. This is one reason why Paul is the dominant writer of the New Testament. This is the fulfillment of the prophecy to call the Gentiles. The church goes back before the law was even given. One reason why Christ came was to confirm the covenant, the promises made to the fathers. Romans 15:8 What the vast majority of people do not know is that the promises, the new covenant was given to Abraham but needed confirmation by Jesus Christ. This is the real reason why Jesus was baptized by John, to fulfill all righteousness. John didn’t even have the authority to baptize with the Holy Spirit, that authority belonged to Jesus as confirmed by Johns own words. Matthew 3:11 and this is further proven by Acts 19:3-7 The baptism of Jesus was also the fulfillment of the sign given to John to identify the messiah. John 1:33 Many people fail to live by every word of GOD. What I have written here is true but I can’t prove it to anyone because only GOD can open a persons eyes to see and ears to hear. The information I have given here can be used to correct many errors that exist in understanding but only the church has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of GOD to all others it has not be given. Matthew 13:11 The one called, Loves Gods Word, has knowledge and he may know these things as well.
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Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

There are many opposing interpretations of the Biblical doctrine of hell. Most Christian denominations, interpret "eternal torment in hell" as "Annihilationism". They teach that Gods Word cannot be taken literally and hell is not eternal, they teach that it's an instantaneous burning up and the person's body, sloe and spirt cease to exist.

This view is a direct contradiction to what Gods Word reveals.

Hell is a place of eternal punishment for the unrepentant, characterized by both separation from God's favour and the presence of his wrath. It is not a place of rehabilitation, but a permanent state of suffering for the wicked, who will experience "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and a fire that is not quenched.

God is present in hell not with kindness, mercy, and grace, but with his "wrathful presence" and just punishment.

Hell is a final, permanent state of punishment. The wicked are not annihilated, nor is there a second chance for salvation after death.

Punishment includes positive pains of body and soul, anguish, and despair, described through biblical metaphors like fire and gnashing of teeth.
The wicked are raised from the dead to be judged and then experience the "second death," which is an unending punishment.

The biblical doctrine of eternal torment in hell, which is understood as everlasting, conscious punishment for the unrighteous.
This view, often termed "Eternal Conscious Torment" is supported by scriptural passages like the parables of Jesus that use imagery of "unquenchable fire" and "undying worms," and phrases like "everlasting punishment". To sin against an eternal God warrants a severe and everlasting penalty.

The punishment for sin is considered unending, a concept supported by passages such as Matthew 25:46, which parallels "everlasting life" with "everlasting punishment".

Hell is a place of conscious torment, not annihilation. The wicked will remain conscious and aware of their suffering for eternity.
Hell is a place of final separation from God's presence and grace, it's not an absence of God. Instead, it is experiencing God's wrathful presence.
The torment is a manifestation of God's wrath, which is a just and righteous response to sin against His holy nature.


Some scriptural examples, are found in

Matthew 25:41, 46 Jesus speaks of sending the cursed "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" and says these will go away "into everlasting punishment".

Mark 9:43, 48 Jesus uses the imagery of a "fire that never shall be quenched" and "where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" to describe the place of judgment.

Revelation 14:11 The text says, "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night".

Hebrews 12:29 God is described as a "consuming fire" in reference to his wrath.
Gos is NOT a tortuous monster .... full stop. To even entertain the idea that God has a eternal torture chamber is totally non-sense.

Jesus himself describes death as a "sleep", why? because one day ALL will be resurrected from the first death.

It's ultimately about eternal life or eternal death. Death is non existence and we shouldn't be confused about it. The first death is temporary the 2nd death is for eternity.
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The Final Experiment (Flat Earth Bites The Dust)

Back to flat Earth.

I also believe in secret messages in society, like this one:

View attachment 373869

And tiny bit of Simpsons. :D

Login to view embedded media

And I believe that I can sell you a bridge in Brooklyn because of that. And I ain't laughing.
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I am comforted to know that there are others like me - Now, what about salvation?

I am comforted to read that others are like me with my OCD and doubt of salvation. I just read the post “Constant Thoughts of Condemnation with No Hope” by 333grace, and the responses. This makes me feel better: not that people have problems but that I am not alone in this OCD-Salvation thing. It actually gives me, at least briefly, at the moment, some hope.

I see two arguments, one for my salvation and the other against it. For my salvation: I have dozens or hundreds of times tried to turn to Christ and in sincerity say, “Take me!” That is what a Christian friend of mine (now in heaven) said ONCE, and he was saved from then on. I think I mean it. I think that possibly, in a sincere moment and action such as that, Jesus saves a person. Even if the sinner, like me, turns away from Christ at the very next moment. Even if the sinner’s faith wavers so severely that they can turn to Christ at one moment and away the next. Jesus saves in a moment and He does not waver. Ephesians 1:13 says that those who HAVE trusted Christ, past tense, have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise. James 1:17 says that in God there is no variation or shadow of turning.

Against my salvation: I wonder if, in my heart of hearts, I have a death-grip on myself and will not let go. If my self has a death-grip on the throne of my life and will not give it to Jesus for REAL. In this case, all my “turnings to Christ” are pantomimes and I do not REALLY give my heart to Jesus. I just go through the motions and say the words. In this case, even though I know I am heading for hell and even though I really do want eternal life, my SELF has a grip on me that will not let go, no matter what.

One person on the thread I mentioned said that once, God interacted supernaturally with them and gave them assurance. I think it might take that to convince me of my salvation. OTOH, Satan could give someone a supernatural experience to fool them.

Can anyone relate? Please pray for me and I’ll pray for you.
  • Focus on Jesus: Assurance of salvation is based on faith of Jesus' finished work on the cross, not on one's own actions.
  • A new nature: True salvation results in a new nature and desires, but this does not mean a person will never fall into sin again.
  • Relationship over rules: The core of sin is a broken relationship with Jesus, not just breaking rules, so focusing on a deep personal relationship through prayer and Bible study is key.
We are to press towards the mark ... regardless.

I look at it this way ... I believe I am saved and will be with the Lord when He returns for eternity ... if not that's OK .... I don't want to be with God unless He wants me to be with Him .... I am His creation and He can do with me as he sees fit. I have no room for argument.

Worrying or being concerned about it is futile.

Rest in the promises of Jesus, continue your walk with Him

  • Philippians 1:6 (NIV): "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus".
  • Meaning: This verse assures believers that the spiritual transformation God begins in them is a process that will be completed.
  • What it signifies: It is a promise of God's faithfulness and a reminder that the process of becoming more like Christ is ongoing.
  • Source of confidence: The verse is meant to provide confidence during times of struggle or weakness, emphasizing that this assurance is in God, not in oneself.
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‘Go to Berkeley’: Ron DeSantis said students seeking ‘woke’ classes should study elsewhere

But wouldn't the same negative things impact any school if the roles were somewhat reversed?

Even if it wasn't a governor handpicking replacements for certain positions, and they were getting qualified people in there to teach and administer everything, but replacing the liberal bias with a conservative one.

A) wouldn't any school have that challenge with brand new professors coming in?
B) wouldn't students who specifically went to a college for the political leaning/culture, be more inclined to bail if all of their professors got replaced by professors with the opposing ideology?
Well the opinion piece isnt exactly a deep dive. But it does sound like the school suffers from competence being replaced by ideology at the admin level. Exactly what I expect from contemporary so called conservatives on a mission. We see this at all levels.

While I think one could make a case that some mismanagement was definitely occurring here (if they're spending that much more and getting much worse results), people are trying to make it seem as if the removal of some of that stuff (that you say only makes up 5% of content) is somehow responsible for the decline. (As if a school's success is contingent upon gender studies and queer poetry courses)
Personally I think gender studies is a perfectly valid field, and gay poetry a valid type of course. My only problem is the number of people who elect to major in things like that which dont make great career launch pads for the most part. But this is hardly new. Kids "just picking sociology" has been going on forever.
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The Reality of Free Will

"of" is still a preposition, so "will" is still a noun.

Not really. The synonym list is something I already knew. In fact, in semantics there are even more. When people start talking about free will they end up collapsing distinct categories --> voluntariness, autonomy, and intent into one synonym set. <--That’s equivocation. Some also claim free will means they could've done the other. <-- Another form of equivocation. The bottom line is it's not a stable term if not qualified.

But it doesn't matter how much the meaning of free will changes, because like I said in Genesis 3:17 God says Adam ‘hearkened’ (shāmaʿ) to the woman, which rules out voluntariness and autonomy. The only sense left is intent, which is not the case when one is being persuaded, so there is no philosophical construct of self‑determination in the text.


I didn't say free will is a noun, I said "will" is a noun in this sentence -> Thus Adam acted on his own free will.

I’m not changing my argument. I’m addressing how you’re using the phrase “free will.” You’re sliding between adverbial voluntariness (“willingly”), noun level capacity (self‑determination), and mere intent, then denying the noun when pressed.

My argument is this: Genesis 3:17 says Adam “hearkened” to the woman, which denotes obedience to persuasion. That rules out autonomy and voluntariness. If by “free will” you only mean intent, then say intent. But the OP accuses Adam using a philosophical construct of self‑determination the text does not provide.
Well, I'm glad to hear you admit you are not addressing the OP, but only an argument that exists in your head, because the OP is proving free will exists in man. Nothing else.
Since you do not have anything against this information,

The Bible says, at Hosea 14:4, in part...
I will freely love them / I will love them freely
The Hebrew expression nedabah (נְדָבָה) is rendered freewill offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary, offering, willingly, offering.
This Hebrew word comes from the Hebrew word nadab, of which Topical Lexicon says...
The verb נָדַב consistently underlines a movement of the heart that is neither coerced nor merely dutiful. It describes people stirred from within to give, serve, or step forward because they have first been moved by God. Throughout Scripture this spirit of readiness is linked to worship, stewardship, civic responsibility, and warfare, revealing a multifaceted biblical theology of voluntary devotion.

At 1 Corinthians 9:16-18, verse 17 says,
For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if unwillingly, I am entrusted with a stewardship.
Paul uses the Greek word hekón: Willing, Voluntary. Which means of one's own free will.
According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon...
STRONGS NT 1635: ἑκών
ἑκών, ἑκοῦσα, ἑκον, unforced, voluntary, willing, of one's own will, of one's own accord: Romans 8:20; 1 Corinthians 9:17. (From Homer down.)

At Philemon 1:14, Paul says...
But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness will not be out of compulsion, but by your own free will (Berean Standard Bible; NASB; Amplified Bible; Christian Standard Bible; Holman Christian Standard Bible; American Standard Version; English Revised Version; New Heart English Bible; Majority Standard Bible; World English Bible; Smith's Literal Translation; Anderson New Testament; Godbey New Testament) / according to willingness / willingly / voluntary / not something forced.
The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
voluntary
adjective​
Done or undertaken of one's own free will.​
a voluntary decision to leave the job.​
Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward.​
a voluntary hostage; voluntary community work.​
Normally controlled by or subject to individual volition.​
The act of willing or choosing; the act of forming a purpose; the exercise of the will.​
The result of an act or exercise of choosing or willing; a state of choice.​
The power of willing or determining; will.​

As well as this information
Adjective

Voluntarily imposed upon oneself
voluntary

freewill

uncoerced

unforced

willing

willful

intended

deliberate

conscious

ungrudging

willingly given

intentional

free-willed

Then we have nothing else to talk about.
Freewill; Free will; Free-willed decisions are indeed a reality.
That is my point.
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The Electrical Nature of the Universe

The term AS moves such scriptural statements OFF literal understanding and INTO spiritual insights
Rubbish.
Maybe you could tell us what "spiritual insights' you get from Isaiah 30:26a?

The sun can make very bright flashes, one happened yesterday:
At 0249 UTC, a previously overlooked sunspot exploded. The X1.9 category flash is shown here in an extreme ultraviolet image from NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory: Quote from spaceweather.com 12/1/2025

What will happen will not be 'doom and gloom' for the Lords faithful peoples, as verse 26b says.
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Scientists find coastal seas acidifying shockingly fast

As soon as I pay it off, it will need to be replaced. But that is not the point.
In correct. I was about to get solar panels put on (and then my basement had a leak nad needed to get replaced).

The system paid for itself in 20 years and most of the system had a 30yr warranty (certain things only being 15).

In the time I was considering it, max panel size available for sale went from 440W to 500W. So if I got the stronger panels it also paid off quicker.

The point being that renewable energy often harms the environment elsewhere.
Wind literally does nothing. They've painted one aerolon black and bird deaths went down 70%.

Lithium is extracted from the sea water.

It's not like O&G don't have problems at their extraction or processing points either so not sure what you're getting at.

People change their internal combustion engine cars like, every 10 years.... They don't last NEAAAARLY as long as a solar array on a rooftop would last.
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Trump pardons Giuliani, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, all fake electors for their attempt to overturn 2020 election, pardon official says

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is an excuse, because you're not looking at the actions of Donald Trump on their own merits, and not holding him accountable. Instead you point at the other side and say "they do it too"... which I would argue is not only an excuse, but a false equivalency.
Too much “What about” while disowning own faults.
So I'm guessing what is being implied here is that the Democrats "cheated" in the 2020 election? If that is what you are saying, I will pose this question: If the democrats / "deep state" have such control over elections - then how did Trump win in 2024? If these unnamed powers were able to cheat in 2020 and make Joe Biden win, then how did Trump win in 2024 if there is such an underhanded conspiracy against him?
That is easy: he won in spite of the powers against him because he is so well liked. We could make up any answer because facts do not matter. All that matters is what Trump says. How did we ever get this far down onto untruth?
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White House begins demolishing East Wing facade to build Trump’s ballroom

One can hope.
Thing is I don't really even have that much of a problem with building the ballroom. It's just the way he's gone about it is just very, very wrong. No historical analysis. price keeps going up. Tore down a third of the existing White House with no oversight. Disbanded the committee that would do all that. It's just all wrong. If he had gone through the proper channels and procedures I might still think it unnecessary and vain, but whatevs. Might be useful in the future. But he's doing all this so he can have it built and get to use before he gets out of office and\or money laundering\grifting purposes.
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

You are correct. T

The spirit of GOD in true Christians enables in us a change of nature, we partake of the divine nature that doesn’t need to be commanded but is motivated by GODS love in us. Love fulfills law. The Ten Commandments will pass away when heaven and Earth pass away, Revelation 21:1 the Ten Commandments are not for a converted righteous man but for carnal unconverted sinners . Jesus paid the penalty for our breaking the Ten Commandments, once , he will not die for you again if you go back to them again.
Nope ... God's laws are eternal .... what is sin? Transgression of the law ... He died to uphold the law and make it honorable ... not get rid of it.

We will ALL be judged by the law

There was law in heaven ... satan and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven because they violated the law.

The law leads us to Christ and after receiving Him as Lord and Savior then the Holy Spirit helps us overcome sin.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws .... there is something wrong with us and one day we will be completely changed

The first resurrection is the moment of change: It's at this point that the "corruptible" becomes "incorruptible" and the "mortal" becomes "immortal".
Sinless perfection is a future state: It is a promise to be fully realized in the resurrection, not a state achieved by believers while still living in a mortal body.

Psalm 119:160: "All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal". This verse is frequently cited to support the perpetual nature of God's laws.
  • Psalm 111:7-8: "The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever".
  • Psalm 119:44: "So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever".
  • Psalm 119:89: "Your eternal word, O LORD, stands firm in heaven".
NONE are righteous ... no not one.
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WHAT DOES PAUL. SAID OF Eph 1 : 4. !!

And what do. you mean , BUT it still. HAD actually happen. before. it apples. ??

Read Rom 9:11. and what do you say. it MEANS ??

dan p
It means that It was only a promise until it actually happened. Physical Israel is a OT type of spiritual Israel. Esau is physical Israel. Jacob is spiritual Israel. Spiritual Israel is elect "in Christ" only. All those in spiritual Israel are "in Christ" as a result of faith and then they become elect with Jesus. Jesus is the One elect. We become elect when we are placed in Him, per Eph. 1:1-14. We are placed in Him when we receive the Holy Spirit indwelling as a result of faith always (Eph. 1:13-14). With the Holy Spirit indwelling we are In Christ, without the indwelling we are not in Christ (Romans 8:9-10). Paul said "we" are the first fruits of the Spirit, meaning the firstfruits of the indwelling (Romans 8:23), the baptism with the Holy Spirit Jesus promised when He, Jesus was lifted up, the promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit, which is part of the promises that those in Hebrews died having not received. OT believers were not in Christ, thus they were not elect except by promise until Pentecost, when they were placed into Christ. All they had was a promise that was to come. They were all still in Adam, yet God knew them already. All that the Father gives me I shall not lose one of them. The Sheep. This is who Romans 8:29 is speaking of. These were already known by God, He predestined them to be conformed to the image of His Son (starts when places in Him), those He called with the Gospel message.... None had yet ascended until the cross because they were not yet "in Christ" and born again (John 3:1-14).
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Jordan says ICE agents ‘doing the Lord’s work’

Q: Is doxxing assault?
A: No.
Q: Have ICE begun disguising themselves?
A: Yes.
Putting fear into little children is wrong and should not be brushed off as not being an assault. As I said, all the Times had to do was contact ICE if they really wanted the truth about the numbers. What the Times considers assaults could be different than ICE, they could make it clear to the readers they only consider assaults as those where a judge or jury has convicted the perpetrator. Pretty easy to do. Perhaps assaults are still over 1000% when doxxing is not included.
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