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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Bishops call Illinois assisted suicide law signed by Gov. Pritzker ‘heartbreaking’

Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker signed into law an assisted suicide bill that Catholic leaders have ardently opposed.

Pritzker, who met with Pope Leo XIV on Nov. 19, cited “freedom,” “choice,” and “autonomy” as his reasons for signing the bill, which allows doctors to give terminally ill patients life-ending drugs if they request them. According to the law, patients must be mentally capable and have a prognosis of six months or less to live.

Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago and other Illinois bishops had urged Pritzker to veto the bill. The Catholic Conference of Illinois, which speaks for the Catholic bishops in the state, condemned the law, calling it a “dangerous and heartbreaking path.”

Other jurisdictions with assisted suicide laws include: California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia. The Illinois law, Pritzker said in a Dec. 12 statement, “enables patients faced with debilitating terminal illnesses to make a decision, in consultation with a doctor, that helps them avoid unnecessary pain and suffering at the end of their lives.”

Continued below.
Governor Pritzker gets back from meeting with pope Leo and then signs an assisted suicide bill. Is he pretending to be a good faithful Catholic?
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Trump sued by preservationists seeking reviews and congressional approval for ballroom project

I think this is ridiculous .... a good place to hold meetings/functions by the white house is needed .... it also provides for a more secure place. It's not just going to be a "dance hall".
Is that what the lawsuit is about? No ballroom no matter what?
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Ultra-processed foods fueling chronic diseases, mental illnesses globally: study

It was a joke, those two are very ultra processed. I should've said Cheese Whiz, that would've been funnier. The simple rule is eat single ingredient foods. The ingredients of an apple are an apple for example. Along with if God didn't make it, don't eat it.
Cheeze Whiz on Pop Tarts?
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B flat B♭

When Elohim YHVH created the Firmament,
Expanse, also called the Aether1
it lasted the test of time. It is still
there today and still holds the same power that it did then.
They believe in “The canopy
theory” in which there used to be a firmament above the earth,
but when God let the flood down on Noah, it collapsed and the
galaxy was open for exploration. Nothing could be farther from
the truth.

By Paul Hart.
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Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

It is not a theory. You are being shown the text and the facts therein. Couple that with the fact that the verse 3 makes no sense any other way. It would be a contradiction within the text itself if the if which is in the text was not translated so. For how could we who do enter into rest, enter therein if God sworn in His wrath that we shall not?

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Again, the vast majority of translations do not translate it your way. You are not a Bible scholar with full competency in Greek so I’m going to go with the experts. In fact I find it quite interesting that the KJV and NKJV differ although both are translated using the same text.
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Trump administration says sign language services ‘intrude’ on Trump’s ability to control his image


The Trump administration is arguing that requiring real-time American Sign Language interpretation of events like White House press briefings “would severely intrude on the President’s prerogative to control the image he presents to the public,” part of a lawsuit seeking to require the White House to provide the services.
Department of Justice attorneys haven’t elaborated on how doing so might hamper the portrayal President Donald Trump seeks to present to the public. But overturning policies encompassing diversity, equity and inclusion have become a hallmark of his second administration, starting with his very first week back in the White House.
The National Association for the Deaf sued the Trump administration in May, arguing that the cessation of American Sign Language interpretation — which the Biden administration had used regularly — represented “denying hundreds of thousands of deaf Americans meaningful access to the White House’s real-time communications on various issues of national and international import.” The group also sued during Trump’s first administration, seeking ASL interpretation for briefings related to the COVID-19 pandemic.
What image is that, Mr. President?
I think it should be available..
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Supreme Court confronts gun rights pileup


An unusually large pileup of Second Amendment challenges has landed at the Supreme Court, which will consider taking up the cases behind closed doors Friday.

It would add to what is already a major term for gun rights. The justices previously agreed to hear two cases early next year that involve whether unlawful drug users can carry firearms and Hawaii’s gun permitting regime.





I have mixed feeling about these. I'll explain why.

Preface: Scotus can only evaluate what's presented to them and elevated to their court, not perfect world scenarios to make new legal stipulations.

Hawaii and similar states having a "may issue" permitting system.

The two sides of that coin, a person pays the application fees, spends money to dot all of the I's and cross all the T's, and then an issuing agency says "Nah, sorry, we're not going to give you a carry permit".

The flip side, an issuing agency has guys like this show up:
View attachment 374401View attachment 374402

"Hi, I passed the background check did the paperwork, the gremlins who live in my closet said I should carry a gun, rabbit skins feel nice don't they...anyway...can I have my permit please?"

...perhaps some discretion is a good thing in some instances.


On the "felon" stuff...I've long maintained that people with non-violent felonies (like cooking the books) are less of a public threat than a person with violent misdemeanors on their record, and shouldn't be denied the right of self defense. The problem is, SCOTUS has a narrow scope to work with to establish precedent and isn't involving that sort of nuance to make the distinction between violent and non-violent felonies, and I certainly don't want former armed robbers being legally licensed to carry.

As far as the drug users thing, that's also too broad. Despite marijuana being closer to alcohol on the "risk spectrum", its lumped in with PCP and heroin (federally), so SCOTUS striking down laws on behalf of some casual pot users could have the negative effect of allowing some hardcore drug users to get their hands on guns.
I think anyone with a Class D felony should get a automatic 5 year loss of gun rights ... if no other offenses during that time their gun rights restored.

A-C they permanently lose their gun rights.

Conceal carry should be allowed nation-wide.
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Do Your Actions Speaks Louder then your knowledge?

I am assuming you are speaking of EGW, I only quoted Scripture. What activities on the Sabbath did she promote that is in violation of what God said we should do on the Sabbath. Please stop making vague accusations and provide what you are speaking about. Remember, we are accountable for any false testimony we have against others.
Actually, there was nothing at all that the Pharisees did that violated any of the Law. Their problem was that they added their own traditions to the Law, as many have done since, not merely Mrs. White.

Which of Mrs. White's additional traditions have you personally rejected?
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144k & Who They Are

Rev 7:
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
(PARSING: 144k sealed from ALL the TRIBES of the Children of Jacob/ISRAEL.)

5 Of the tribe of Juda, Reuben & Gad .

6 Of the tribe of Aser, Nepthalim & Manassas

7 Of the tribe of Simeon, Levi & Issachar

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon, Joseph & Benjamin
(PARSING: Verses 5-8 confirm 12k ea x 12 tribes = 144,000)

Gen 32:28 God changed Jacob's name to Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel are Jacob's sons. Each son received a land portion (except Levi/Levites they become the priesthood) Joseph receives a double portion of land (Gen 48) And divides it between his 2 sons Ephraim & Manasseh.

Rev 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a 144k, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(PARSING: These 144k were redeemed from the earth)

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
(PARSING: "Redeemed From Among Men" being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God & to the Lamb)

Parsing vs 4
(A) 144k ALL VIRGINS)
(B) These 144k were REDEEMED from AMONG MEN)
(C) Being FIRSTFRUITS onto God & to the Lamb.

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(PARSING: Christ is 1st to rise/resurrected from the grave)

Matt 27:
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(PARSING: Jesus dies)

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(PARSING: Jesus rips the Temple veil in 1/2 on the way to paradise)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(PARSING: Many saints are resurrected)

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(PARSING: After Jesus rises 1st, many saints rise, REREADING Rev 14:1-4, 144k > FIRSTFRUITS, "Redeemed From Among Men")
Hey BrotherJJ :wave:

I like how you have connected the firstfruits to those who rose to life with Jesus.

Have you considered the connection between Rev 6 and Rev 7

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

3Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

(DAN is missing from the list) The tribe of Dan is known as the apostate tribe... I understand that the author (John) may be revealing what is hidden. Those who are sealed are those who persevere and continue in the faith even through trials and tribulations.

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

From this, I understand the 144000 were those of Israel who did not reject the Messiah, the prophets, etc, who died for his name...

But Paul says something profound in Hebrews 11 (bearing in mind this chapter is all about tribulation)
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
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Consequences of firing government employees - USDA says it accidentally fired officials working on bird flu and is trying to rehire them

US veterans agency lost thousands of ‘core’ medical staff under Trump, records show

Departures are exacerbating existing shortages and creating ‘very unsafe’ conditions for patients, veterans and health workers say

U.S. Veterans Affairs agency plans as many as 35,000 health-care job cuts this month, Washington Post reports

The cuts come after the agency cut about 30,000 jobs in July [previous story, more or less]

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs plans to eliminate as many as 35,000 health-care positions this month, the Washington Post reported on Saturday, citing an internal memo, Veterans Affairs staffers and congressional aides.

Reuters could not immediately confirm the report.

“The health-care system is eliminating about 26,400 of its open jobs, which he described as ‘mostly COVID-era roles that are no longer necessary,’” the Washington Post quoted Veterans Affairs Department spokesperson Pete Kasperowicz as saying.
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BLM executive director of OKC chapter charged with fraud, money laundering involving millions in donor funds

Activist is also an associate minister of UCC-affiliated Church of the Open Arms, has Universal Life Church minister credentials

The executive director of a Black Lives Matter chapter in Oklahoma has been charged with wire fraud and money laundering involving millions of dollars in donor funds. Federal prosecutors say she used the money for personal travel, shopping and real estate.

Tashella Sheri Amore Dickerson, 52, faces 20 counts of wire fraud and five counts of money laundering for allegedly diverting more than $3.15 million in charitable donations from accounts linked to Black Lives Matter Oklahoma City, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Oklahoma.

The indictment alleges that from June 2020 to at least October 2025, she transferred bail refund checks into personal bank accounts and used the money for expenses unrelated to the group’s stated mission.

Dickerson began leading BLM OKC in 2016.

Continued below.

There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

I did lol.

There is very little work done of these examples. There was one test on a small sample taken from a site called Tetecacca from the glazed surface. They showed traces of Silicon, Aluminum and Magnesium which is not natural to the stones. It was like a thin glaze over the stone. This is common all the the sites around Peru. Another unusualy feature is that these stones are very magnetic.

The info on the Snake impression starts at around the 7.20 minutes mark if you don't want to watch the short video. It also covers other stones that have been vitified.

View attachment 374416
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u7x6xrGO8I
Looking at only the first few minutes of the video I found it was are riddled with errors.

(1) The rock is made from Andesite which has a MOH hardness 5.5 - 6.5 not 7.0 as reported in the video.
(2) Andesite is an igneous rock, to refer to it as a geopolymer is nonsensical.
(3) Andesite is composed of Plagioclase feldspar, Pyroxene, Hornblende, Biotite, Magnetite, Apatite, Ilmenite, Zircon, Quartz and Olivine.

According to the screenshot in the video the SEM and EDS (Energy-Dispersive X-ray Spectroscopy) spectrum has an 'excessively high level' of iron (Fe).

EDX.png

There is nothing out of the ordinary for the Fe content, of the mineral composition mentioned, the Fe bearing minerals are Pyroxene, Hornblende, Biotite, Magnetite, and Ilmenite.

(4) There is nothing out of the ordinary for Andesite having magnetic properties either given Magnetite is one of the minerals found in Andesite.
(5) The presence of guano which is bat and bird droppings is clearly an external contamination and not a component of the 'geopolymer'.

Mass_Spec.png

Whereas the sample from the monument is contaminated by guano, the reference guano EDS spectrum is also clearly contaminated by the presence of silicon (Si) in the form of dust particles.
In the forensic investigation of engine wear of pistons, rings and cylinder walls due to lubrication problems, a main culprit is the external contamination of engine oils from Si in the environment and is found by EDS.

These basic errors where enough to convince me viewing the entire video would have been a waste of time.
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Can a young child become a Christian?

at some point, replies like this become a waste of forum bandwidth and only decrease the ability of anyone else reading the thread to understand what anyone is talking about.
As is replying to and complaining about a posters comments a similar waste of bad width
for what its worth, i agree with everything ain't zwingling in post #78.
Do you believe your comment is a better use of bandwidth?
whats left if you aren't either of those?
Terminology is the issue here - a Baptist is most commonly the title of a Protestant denomination. Of which I am not a member. I do not have a clue what the other types of baptist the poster mentioned are and the poster offered no clarity nor explanation.
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Trump brokers another peace agreement

Trump's 'historic' peace deal for DR Congo shattered after rebels seize key city

The US ambassador to the UN has accused Rwanda of leading Africa's Great Lakes region toward war, just over a week after a peace deal was signed in Washington to end the decades-long conflict.

[T]he M23 rebel group says it has "fully liberated" the key city of Uvira in an offensive the US and European powers say is backed by Rwanda. UN experts have previously accused it of having "de facto control" of the rebel force's operations.

The rebels were not signatories to Trump's deal - and have been taking part in a parallel peace process led by Qatar, a US ally.

The M23's new offensive in South Kivu started a few days before Kagame and Tshisekedi flew to Washington last week to ratify the agreement first hammered out in June.
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State leaders speak out about plans to expand the Islamic Academy of Alabama

Rudolph also killed people, the "islamists" didn't in that period.

I'm not surprised that you didn't get my point. These lists are dumb. That was my point. The whole thread is about bigotry.

Lists themselves aren't dumb -- if the right metrics are being measured.


If we were having a "dangers of drug use, and public implications" conversation.

A list that aggregates all "illegal drugs" together and treats every negative outcome the same (regardless of severity), then only does simplistic math would be dumb.

A list that separated each individual drug and and the outcomes (and weighed by outcome severity) could be meaningful.
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Senator Ron Johnson Endorses Discredited Doctor’s Book on a Chemical [Chlorine Dioxide] He Claims Treats Everything From Autism to Cancer

New Republican health plan suggestion: Drink bleach!

Senator Endorses Discredited Doctor’s Book on a Chemical He Claims Treats Everything From Autism to Cancer

Wisconsin's Ron Johnson has a history of spreading vaccine misinformation. Now he's giving credence to assertions about the therapeutic powers of chlorine dioxide, a disinfectant and deodorizer. “It is all lunacy," one expert said.​


He’s promoted disproven treatments for COVID-19 and claimed, without evidence, that athletes are “dropping dead on the field” after getting the COVID-19 vaccination. Now the Wisconsin politician is endorsing a book by a discredited doctor promoting an unproven and dangerous treatment for autism and a host of ailments: chlorine dioxide, a chemical used for disinfecting and bleaching.

The book is “The War on Chlorine Dioxide: The Medicine that Could End Medicineby Dr. Pierre Kory, a critical care specialist who practiced in Wisconsin hospitals before losing his medical certification for statements advocating using an antiparasite medication to treat COVID-19. The action, he’s said, makes him unemployable, even though he still has a license.

Kory’s book, set to be released to the public in January, argues that word of chlorine dioxide’s effectiveness has been suppressed by government and medical forces that need people to remain perpetually ill to generate large profits.

Johnson confirmed to ProPublica in an email that he authorized the statement on the cover. “After reading the entire book, yes I provided and approved that blurb,” he said.

Tim Walz Vows to Bring More Somalis to Minnesota, Despite Growing Fraud Scandal Reaching Into the Billions

Did Christ's teachings include bringing in a culture from another nation which practices fraud and tribalism and stealing billions of taxes from us
Votes for Trump, complains about fraud and tribalism.

classic.
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DeSantis admin diverted $36.2 million in child welfare and medical funds for consultants, ads to defeat voter ballot initiatives

Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration diverted more than $35 million in taxpayer funds — an amount far greater than previously known — as part of a brazen agenda last year to defeat two ballot amendments he staunchly opposed, a Miami Herald/Tampa Bay Times investigation has found. Much of the state money was intended to assist needy Floridians, including children. Instead, it paid for political consultants, lawyers and thousands of advertisements that helped DeSantis and his supporters win at the ballot box.

The findings shed new light on the DeSantis administration’s marshaling of state resources to finance his fight against political causes supported by a majority of Florida voters. Amendment 3 would have legalized recreational marijuana. Amendment 4 would have overturned the six-week abortion ban pushed by DeSantis. Both fell just short of the 60% needed to pass. The most visible cog in his campaign — the use of the state’s Hope Florida charity — is the subject of a grand jury investigation. In that case, nearly $10 million from a Medicaid settlement was steered to a political committee controlled by the governor’s chief of staff.

The diversion of state money came at a time when the term-limited governor’s deep pool of donors had begun to dry up after a failed presidential campaign. Without the cash needed to wage the all-out blitz to defeat the amendments, he turned to taxpayer money to air what he called “public service announcements” to educate Floridians.

See also:

What is Hope Florida? Why Casey DeSantis-connected charity is reportedly under investigation

The battle over Hope Florida, a project spearheaded by Florida first lady Casey DeSantis, kicked into a new gear with news that a criminal investigation may have been opened into a $10 million "donation" from a Medicaid settlement that was then sent to a political committee to fight a constitutional amendment that her husband, Gov. Ron DeSantis, didn't like.
Corruption at the highest state level.
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The Universal Destination of Goods

This is a good challenge.

The problem with the way that recent papacies have wielded these very subtle theological-moral doctrines is that they tend to simply pretend as if the legal sphere does not exist (cf. Where the Church’s Immigration Rhetoric Fails - First Things).

Hence the Catechism and the Compendium are much more careful than Dilexi te (and beginning with Francis, papal documents have become increasingly rhetorical and propagandistic). For example:




The footnote 371 refers to Rerum Novarum #11, which says nothing about "common and promiscuous dominion" (it turns out that the translations and references are often inconsistent in these documents, including DT).



More succinctly, Catholic doctrine involves a complex balance of opposed and paradoxical principles and values. The Francis papacy had a tendency to highlight one side of the paradox, pretend that the other doesn't exist, and mislead quite grievously. I haven't read this document, so I have no reason to believe that Leo is following in Francis' footsteps, but attempts to highlight the universal destination of goods without mentioning the complex and paradoxical context in which it resides do not do justice to Catholic doctrine. Historically, the universal destination of goods is treated as a kind of exception which applies in cases of extreme poverty. Most people nowadays want it to mean much more. Beyond that, the universal destination of goods is a specifically theological doctrine, absent from natural reason in its stronger forms.
Yes, Catholic doctrine involves a complex balance of opposed and paradoxical principles and values. But people today, including leaders at high levels, don't seem to have the inclination, patience or even desire to get into the complex weeds where doctrine, principles and values seem to conflict in our day to day social realities. Even more now than ever we like the concise tweets that confirm our biases.

But you identify my biggest gripe. Let us sed both sides of any issue fairly and as objectively as possible. But how de we do that? There does not seem to be a forum for such a hopeful debate. Instead we are forced to listen to each side, who do not talk to each other, and try to discern what is more valuable.
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