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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why do people hate ICE...

If he overstayed his Visa does he deserve special treatment because he works for the Department of Criminal Justice?

If he overstayed, whats the problem with him being picked up? Why is this bad?

We were all told that ICE would be going after the bad guys. Instead, they are going after priests working for the good guys.

This provides an answer to the question "Why do people hate ICE?"
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Young earth vs Old earth?

God created Israel ...
Not exactly. We agree that God created Jacob, and that after successfully wrestling with God's messenger, Jacob asked for a blessing before releasing the angel. The angel renamed Jacob to Israel, ie., one who wrestles with God. The renaming tradition occurs often in the Bible when a mortal engages with the eternal or His angel showing the individual's transformation after encountering the other-worldly.
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Maybe you'd never guess...

Trump is trying to assist Latin American governments as stable trading partners instead of China filling the vacuum.



Much more work needs to be done for US farmers but a start has been made with soybean sales resuming with China.


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Continuous stone tools use and manufacture in one location 2.75 million years ago.

Of course it's significant. But we have evidence of human structures earlier than that. I don't think anyone was surprised that humans would stay in a place that had all the resources they needed, or that they'd be making tools, possibly for trade. Interesting, but not a surprising find.
Yes ,interesting - and encouraging that evidence of hominid culture can be unearthed and interpreted after such a long time frame and generation spans.

(I have no expertise in the field myself)
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There’s a Giant Flaw in Human History

Oh, we've gone WAY into pseudoscience territory now, haven't we?

The premise was bad enough to begin with.
Exactly how have we gone into pseudoscience lol.

How do we know that its actually pseudoscience. Is belief in God pseudoscience. Is Ancient and Indigenous Knowledge pseudoscience. Explain to me how its pseudoscience.
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Who then can be saved?

No, you misinterpreted what I clearly stated. I never claimed that there were only two "camps of Christianity". I simply said there are two opposing interpretations of the gospel.

All of the 49,000 Christian Denominations hold to one of these two interpretations.

There's a big problem with those three Denominations your refer to, "Roman Catholic", "Eastern Orthodox" and "Oriental Orthodoxy", all departed from the truth and formed their man made religions.

Here's what Gods Word reveals about your Denominations >>>>>


1 John 2:19, which reads: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us"

Your promoting this idea that the Body of Christ is divided into vehemently opposing Denominations, which teach mans wisdom, instead of Gods truth. God never intended His people to be enemies who kill each other, as we know happened when the Vatican declared war on Protestants and tens of thousands were butchered to death in the name of Christ.

I don't know why you support denominations which justify violence against their brothers in Christ. There is only One true Church, not 49,000 radically opposed denominations.
Obviously you know nothing about church history. Those were the only three denominations of Christianity before the reformation and it’s indisputable. Also I never said that I support the Roman Catholic Church. But you can’t deny that the Roman Catholic Church wasn’t established by the apostles because Paul wrote the entire Epistle to the Roman church in Romans. If you knew anything about church history you’d know that. If you knew anything about church history you’d know about the schism of 1054. You don’t know that because it’s not important to you what the early church taught and what happened to the early church otherwise you would’ve studied it. It’s indisputable that the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Eastern Oriental Church were all planted by the apostles. If you knew anything about church history you’d recognize that what you’re saying is that every single church planted by the apostles, who endured persecution and even martyrdom because of their enduring faith in the gospel, who were spread out across thousands of miles apart, all decided to preach a different gospel WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE OF ANY RESISTANCE WHATSOEVER. These thousands upon thousands of believers who were spread out across thousands of miles with no type of communication other than meeting in person or letters all unanimously decided to preach a different gospel as soon as the apostles were dead even to the point of dying for that false gospel? So stop pretending that you know anything about church history because it’s obvious to everyone in this thread that you don’t.
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Will MAGA condemn Texan gerrymandering and sign a petition for all States and Feds to have independent Commissions handling redistributions?

I would fully support such legislation....but, if gerrymandering is perfectly legal, and Texas is going to do it to favor the GOP, I see no problem with California or any other state doing the same thing. What's good for the goose and all that.

-- A2SG, how dare democrats do what republicans are already doing!!
Precisely. Republicans are angry and indignant that the democrats are leveling the playing field. I suspect that if all blue state were to do this, we'd finally see some progress in eliminating corruption in redistricting.
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Nancy Pelosi announces retirement


Nancy Pelosi, the first and only female speaker of the US House of Representatives and one of the most powerful figures in Democratic politics for decades, has announced she will not seek reelection.

...widely viewed as the most effective Speaker....ever.

Given how long she has lived in the heads of the far right for so long, that's probably true.
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Continuous stone tools use and manufacture in one location 2.75 million years ago.

What about the finding of continuous use in the same location?

Is that not significant ,or is that something that was already known or assumed to be the case even if not directly ascertained till now. ?
Of course it's significant. But we have evidence of human structures earlier than that. I don't think anyone was surprised that humans would stay in a place that had all the resources they needed, or that they'd be making tools, possibly for trade. Interesting, but not a surprising find.
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Young earth vs Old earth?

Ah no I'm not confusing anything. Genesis 1 tells us that God created man. But we know that man was made of dust. When God created the blacksmith, or Jacob, The Bible doesn't say that God transformed them, it explicitly states that God created them as I cited in passages above.

But now, this is what the LORD says— he who created you, Jacob, he who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. Isaiah 43:1

See, it is I who created the blacksmith who fans the coals into flame and forges a weapon fit for its work. And it is I who have created the destroyer to wreak havoc. Isaiah 54:16

God doesn't merely transform Jacob or Israel or the blacksmith etc. God explicitly creates them.

In fact, it's the same Hebrew word as used in Genesis 1. "Bara".

And to create does not explicitly mean "ex nihilo".

I created a sandwich. But that doesn't mean that I therefore made a sandwich appear out of thin air. I can create a recipe. I can create a football team. I can create a work of art. I can create a piece of furniture etc.

And God can create things this way too.

This is a simple and commonly overlooked misconception about Genesis that has plagued the church for a long time.
We believe that God creates each soul individually at conception. After His animating act, the bodies begin their material transformation from egg and sperm and develop into fully formed bodies. Does the acorn create the oak tree? No. It is the seed with the potency to transform under the correct condition to become an oak tree.
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The Mandami effect

It will be interesting to see how things are going in NYC a year from now. Hopefully it won't end up being a hard lesson for NY citizens.
Mandami cannot fulfil half of his campaign promises since a city mayor lacks the authority for those changes. The rest may be possible, but would require two or three years, so significant change in NYC seems unlikely.
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Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

“I could feel it through my ballistic vest,” the agent testifies. “The sandwich…exploded all over my uniform. I could smell the onions and the mustard.” As Joseph Conrad’s Kurtz might have testified....

Does this man have any self-respect?
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end the filibuster?

I am not American, so there is something you need to explain to me.
Trump on Truthsocial
1762612218280.png


The Democrats will terminate the filibuster once they can . So it seems to be that the Democrats don't like the filibuster. Right.
Also Trump, on the same Truthsocial:


1762612386774.png


Do I understand this correctly that it is Republicans that are playing games and hinder the re-opening of the country by not giving Democrats what they want?
But also:
1762612606626.png

So Democrats want to terminate the filibuster, which would allow Republicans to pass legislation and sail to victory, yet the same Republicans block this?

I am confused.

Morality without Absolute Morality

Now I have read the article, it is rich in hypotheticals and possibilities but there is not one calculation or simulation that describes the increase in fitness for humans by adopting a forced-sex mating strategy so what conclusions are one to draw from it? Do you know if anyone have put down their concrete assumptions and made any calculations?
The article is more of a summary of the issues, you'd have to dig into the citations to get more of the research data.
An evolutionary approach also requires that the propensity to rape would be heritable, do you know if that have been investigated? Do rapists even on average get more offsprings than non-rapists? Especially for humans.
Not necessarily, strategies need not be heritable to improve fitness. Nor does it need to result in more offspring. All that is needed is that it increases the statistical likelihood of genes surviving, which is explained by the manner in which rapists are able to copulate with more females by bypassing parental mate selection.
So now the argument goes from "It's a reproductive strategy that is highly successful" to possibly relevant.
It is a successful reproductive strategy that improves fitness. How successful isn't all that relevant, the only issue is whether we can draw a straight line from fitness to morality.
I really wish that evolutionary psychologists would focus on what is explained by evolutionary psychology instead of what can be explained by evolutionary psychology (which of course is almost everything, only limited by the ingenuity of the psychologist).
Considering that there is very little demonstrated regarding heritability of psychology in general, evolutionary psychologists wouldn't have much to talk about if they didn't engage in conjectural discussions and debate.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Aren't you supposed to rest and do nothing on a Saturday? The Sunday ritual in many interpretations is work.
I can if I want to, not because I’m commanded to.
Besides, we are free to live any day unto the Lord now, not just one out of seven.
Absolutely!!!!
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The Mandami effect

It's quite genius, actually. There is no infighting. All force is directed towards the opposition. Modern conservatives are willing to accept the good with the bad, while the left is routinely tearing itself apart because of minor disagreements and can't find it's direction because it believes that the direction actually matters.
I'd be more inclined to think "accept the bad with the even worse"
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Israel is the assembly (church)
No.

Origin and history of church


church(n.)​

Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, circe "place of assemblage set aside for Christian worship; the body of Christian believers, Christians collectively; ecclesiastical authority or power," from Proto-Germanic *kirika (source also of Old Saxon kirika, Old Norse kirkja, Old Frisian zerke, Middle Dutch kerke, Dutch kerk, Old High German kirihha, German Kirche).
This is probably [see extensive note in OED] borrowed via an unrecorded Gothic word from Greek kyriakē (oikia), kyriakon doma "the Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord" (from PIE root *keue- "to swell," also forming words for "strong, powerful").
Greek kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" had been used in reference to houses of Christian worship since c. 300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilikē. An example of the direct Greek-to-Germanic transmission of many Christian words, via the Goths; probably it was used by West Germanic people in their pre-Christian period.

How does this help you? Nothing here about Israel being the church.
In Greek mythology, Circe (/ˈsərsiː/;[1] Ancient Greek: Κίρκη, romanized: Kírkē, pronounced [kírkɛː]) is an enchantress, sometimes considered a goddess or a nymph.[2] In most accounts, Circe is described as the daughter of the sun god Helios and the Oceanid Perse. Circe was renowned for her vast knowledge of potions and herbs. Through the use of these and a magic wand or staff, she would transform her enemies, or those who offended her, into animal

Are you now into pagan gods?
Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.
Yep and Israel rejected the messiah so the branches were cut off.

““Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is the One who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭37‬-‭39‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Until Israel declare Jesus their Lord and Savior they will remain estranged from Christ.
The renewed covenant is with Israel.
There is no renewed covenant. The covenant of blood is with the church not with Israel,
We've covered this ad nauseam.
And you keep getting it wrong. Repeating an incorrect opinion does not make it come true.
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Maybe you'd never guess...

but many of us probably would have...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/09/us/politics/argentina-bailout-investors.html


That the reason billions were chucked at Argentina was to help american billionaire investments in Argentina far right government keep from going cheeks up.

Trump administration: protecting American Billionaires again!

Hey! Maybe American conservatives will look through Argentina's shopping cart and suddenly care where there tax dollars go!

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

The Torah is forever. We have been over this.
You go ahead and believe that. I don’t.

“But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭23‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

We are no longer under the guardianship of the law. Nor are we Israel.
He called us to follow him.

Ask any practicing Jew if he fulfills the law; and he will answer in the affirmative.

All of the Torah has not been fulfilled; but we are to fulfill our part, in our time.
Of course they will but that is not what the scriptures teach. No one can work for salvation. No one can earn justification. All of the Torah has been fulfilled in Christ through His sacrifice on the cross.
(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

The Torah was not finished when Yahshua was killed. It was dogma (doctrine of men) that was nailed to the stake.

The Torah is forever. Yah said it. Yahshua repeated it.

I will trust in them over the doctrine of men.

“But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons and daughters. Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The argument in whether the believer is under the law of permeated the early church and Paul addressed the argument masterfully. The law is contrary to the gospel of good news. The law negates Jesus sacrifice for the propitiation of the believer’s sin through faith in Him. Your argument was defeated 2000 years ago.
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‘Traditional family values’ Michigan lawmaker Bryan Posthumus appears in adult hookup sites

Gonna play devils advocate here, but.. this was more than 10 years ago, and years before he got into politics. Perhaps he turned over a new leaf?
I agree that that is worth considering.
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