Apple Sky said:

But you did write this, 'The word "earth" occurs 44 times in Job, and not one of those times says anything about the shape of the earth.'

And this is what I was replying too.

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And I was replying to what you claimed that I had not asked you where in the book of Job we are told that the earth is a flat disc. You had written: "This is not what you said."

Hans Blaster said:

Do you read?

I said we don't know if the Trump boys are getting more money from crypto, or deals with China, or insider trading.

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Emphasis "we don't know"

David Lamb said:

But if you look at the full post, which you did quote, it ended, "I wonder which part of the book of Job you are thinking of that says the earth is flat."

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But you did write this, 'The word "earth" occurs 44 times in Job, and not one of those times says anything about the shape of the earth.'

And this is what I was replying too.

Larniavc said:

If a parent even gets a sniff of someone who might be a paedophile they are persona non grata and likely face extra-judicial attention at some point in the future.

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Not to mention, saying “even if I was a pedophile, I wouldn’t be able to do do anything with all the adults around” is a phrase not likely to make parents comfortable as it seems to excuse pedophiles being around kids as fine…

Apple Sky said:

View attachment 372810

This is what you said.

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And he is correct.

It is you who has said , "Job said that the earth is like an image taking shape under clay. Here is a picture of a round seal which has produced a round image. Therefore, Job does mention the shape of the earth; he says the shape of the earth is round."

Read it again. Where does Job say"the earth is round; like when someone has a round seal and stamps an image"?
I think you'll find that it's not there and this is only your interpretation of what is poetic language anyway.

Apple Sky said:

Nope.


This is not what you said, you said.

View attachment 372810

This is what you said.

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But if you look at the full post, which you did quote, it ended, "I wonder which part of the book of Job you are thinking of that says the earth is flat."

Nope.

David Lamb said:

Yet you said in post 587: "There is no verse that specifically states that the earth is flat." Now you say that the Book of Job does. The word "earth" occurs 44 times in Job, and not one of those times says anything about the shape of the earth. The words, "He (God) hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7) do fit well with a globe earth. I wonder which part of the book of Job you are thinking of that says the earth is flat.

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This is not what you said, you said.



This is what you said & the post which I replied too.

The Liturgist said:

With my copy of Adobe CS 2 back in 2005 I was unaware of that, other than Garamond Premiere Pro, but I thought I had a decent font library at the time (it had Univers, Helvetica and so on), but I reckon your library is better.

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Oh, not far at all from your issue, mine, Adobe Illustrator 10 (2001) and Photoshop 7 (2002) but some of the biggest changes we know, happen overnight with big-tech. You're likely correct on the vast majority that are commonplace fonts.

The Liturgist said:

Do you use a Mac like most designers? I love how Apple products render type compared to Windows or especially Linux, but dislike a lot of aspects of Mac OS, especially earlier Mac OS X when HFS+ was still the default filesystem for backwards compatibility with Mac OS Classic; also the neutered UNIX features from the BSD Subsystem (for example there is an /etc/passwd but you can’t use it to manage user accounts) have become more of a scourge on recent releases. A lot of this is configurational; I have a feeling one could probably build, using Apple’s internal tools, a version of MacOS that I would be happy with for reasons other than elegant typography; indeed jailbroken iPad OS is almost what I want except it requires a warranty-voiding procedure.

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Wow, won't even attempt to unpack all this!! Yes, Cut my lab teeth on the Mac OS back in 99', another longtime commonplace reality amongst the graphics folk. But after the lab duration, reverted back to Windows as this insured the family could jump on their accounts between my graphics side work-flow. Features of Mac over Windows I never ran into but suppose WIndows and Linux were mavericks on a handful of goodies I'm sure? Correct me if I'm wrong but, I suppose with all Linux being known for such areas of rock-solid securities, has to have hurt their marketplace presence, am I correct that in the last ten years has eased somewhat to their more cross-platforming?

The Liturgist said:

I thought I had a decent font library at the time (it had Univers, Helvetica and so on), but I reckon your library is better.

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If didn't think I was abusing the bounds of copywrite privileges', I wouldn't mind posting some other more drastic changes that happened to PostScript Type 1. Irks me every time I think of their slap-in-the-face to a loyal Adobe constituency.

The Liturgist said:

By the way @rockanchor forgive me, I just realized I forgot to upvote several very thoughtful posts from you. This oversight has been corrected.

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So so kind! I'm not the best by any stretch in that dept.

Hentenza said:

Nah. You can’t just isolate the definition you like.


σάββατον sábbaton, sab'-bat-on; of Hebrew origin (H7676); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:—sabbath (day), week.

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Definitions? No my friend, context, grammar and syntax. A Sabbath is a day of repose by definition. It looks like you cited Strongs. That is nice. But in respect to studying the Greek it is so much more involved than a definition.

Be that what it is, There was the weekly Sabbath of the Decalogue and the sabbaths to which were mandated for the festivals and Holy days. The context to which the word sabbath is used shows us which sabbath is being spoken of.

Passover, the Day of Atonement and what not all had sabbaths that were separate from the Sabbath of the Decalogue. They were instituted because of our sin. The Sabbath as you know was made for man on the Seventh Day of creation as the commandment states and Scripture affirms

.

Hentenza said:

you know that the certificate of debt consisting of decrees being canceled is the law, right?

“having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

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Of decrees is a bad translation. As is, the translation "of ordinances" as seen in the KJV which I use. The Greek word translated decrees in the translation you are using is in the Dative case not the Genitive. In English, this relation is expressed by the words like. by or to not of. The Genitive case is that of possession. If the case was in the Genitive, then we would use the word of or something similar..

Hentenza said:

Also, how does verse 14 help your argument,

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The Body of sin has been separated from us, and we have been forgiven all trespasses.

Therefore the handwriting to the decrees or as your translation states, certificate of indebt to the decrees has been blotted out.

These are they which dealt with our sin. The judgements, ceremonies in the Temple and holy days, like Passover and the Day of atonement and what not. These are they which have been blotted out. They are not needed anymore because we have been forgiven and the Temple and it's services have been eliminated.

These are they which were of the handwriting to the decrees. Mind you not the decrees themselves, but those which were by or to the decrees. Those which were because of our sin, not those which tell us what our sin is. Fofrby the Law is the knowledge of sin. And if the Law is used righteously, it is for the sinner as God says in Romans and Timothy

The context of verse 14 is connected to verse 16 by the word, and in verse 15 and the word therefor in verse 16. As you know these words connect what is about to be said to what was previously stated. So with that understood, these meat and drink, holydays, new moon and sabbath days are they which were of the handwritings to the ordinances, The Book of the Law. Not the Ten Commandment and the Laws and statutes that showed us our sin.



Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

prodromos said:

You obviously need prayer.

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I readily and openly admit I'm in need of prayers. Have mercy on me the sinner.

I do not believe that the Orthodox message, on any topic, benefits by aligning itself with one of the preeminent voices in our culture favoring Stalin, Hitler, anti-Semitism, and white supremacy. In my not so humble (at the moment) opinion, it diminishes any good that is trying to be conveyed.
Perhaps Chesterson and a few others think the extermination of fellow human beings by the Nazis in WW2 is a real knee-slapper.
I don't see it a laughing matter. ymmv
I'm really disappointed that Fr Josiah, which is someone I do admire, would make such a poor choice.

Michie said:

The 85-year-old announced Thursday that she would be bringing her tenure in Congress to a close,

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Gosh, 85 years old, hasn't she done well ?

Apple Sky said:

That's not what you asked.

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In Post 671, I wrote: "I wonder which part of the book of Job you are thinking of that says the earth is flat." Then in post 677, I wrote: "Well, perhaps you could tell me which of the 44 mentions of earth in Job says that it is a flat disc." So that is what I asked.

Chesterton said:

No need. In our messed up world, their free speech is acceptable and secure.

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You think our messed up world would benefit from more free speech admiring of Stalin, Hitler, anti-Semitism, and white supremacist ideolgy?

ICE grabs father by the neck—send him into violent seizure while his arms lock up around his toddler.

"He's having seizure and they're trying to rip the baby out of his hands!"

Agents then handcuff him—before putting in ambulance with his child.

Mother is detained by agents as the original target of arrest during the traffic stop—according to witnesses.

Strong in Him said:

Oh, I know; it fits your beliefs.

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No it fits the truth.

BCP1928 said:

These days most of them seem to be Republicans.

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According to the article, she wasn't affiliated with any party.

David Lamb said:

Well, perhaps you could tell me which of the 44 mentions of earth in Job says that it is a flat disc. As I said, I looked at all 44, and couldn't find one. although I did find a verse that says God hangs the earth upon nothing, which doers fit with the globe earth.

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That's not what you asked.

lol @ the conservatives in this thread clutching their pearls. Rick Scott ran the largest Medicare/Medicaid fraud in history and you all elected him governor and then senator. Oliver North sold guns to Iran so he could fund terrorists in Nicaragua and he’s been a commentator on Fox for years.

This woman won a seat on the city council of a town of 32,000 people.

Always in His Presence said:

A thread to discuss all the effects of the new Mayor

Parents began planning to take their kids out of NYC schools minutes after Zohran Mamdani’s mayoral win​

Since the results of Tuesday’s election came in, school placement consultant Christopher Rim told The Post he’s had no less than 23 clients reach out to him. They’re looking to relocate — and they want his help getting their kids into elite private high schools and middle schools in other states.

“Within the first 30 minutes of AP announcing Mamdani’s victory, I got three messages from families looking to move,” said Rim, founder and CEO of Command Education.

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In a city of 8.5 million, they found 23 hand-wringing reactionaries.

That’s barely enough to field a single softball game.

In a city of that size, 680,000 think they could beat up a lion.

Apple Sky said:

Everyone knows what this verse is all about unless of course someone can't read.

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What was that you were saying about poetic language? Does the sea have literal doors, or did it burst out of a womb? Job 38:8?
If verse 8 is not literal, what reason have you got for insisting that verse 14 is?

Oh, I know; it fits your beliefs.

keras said:

The charge if misreading and misapplying, would stick if Gods plans were all over and what I thought would happen; didn't.
But it's not all over yet by a long way, so your accusations are invalid.

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No, they're not invalid.
The scroll and the basket in Zechariah 5 are two different things. They probably are different in the Hebrew too, otherwise translators would not translate them differently.

The scroll was flying and had a message on both sides. The angel explained what it meant - a message was going out over all the land that thieves and liars would be banished.
Then the angel said "look up and see what is appearing". The scroll wasn't appearing, it was there and had already been seen.
It was a basket/measuring container that was appearing. This container had a cover. From the context it is clear that the lead cover covered the opening of the container, because the angel looked inside.
In your scenario, the entire object - which was the same as the scroll and tube shaped - was covered in lead.

Zechariah was speaking God's word for that time. Prophecy is not spiritual fortune telling and is not mainly about the future.
Zechariah described a series of visions - a man among the myrtle trees, a man with a measuring line, Joshua, the high priest, standing before the Lord with clean garments, and so on. All of these things had significance for what the Lord was saying at that time.
You haven't addressed these other visions or even considered the rest of the book - but selected chapter 5 and made it seem as though the Lord was prophesying that Iran would use/have nuclear bombs.

keras said:

Your reason to reject my explanation is because it cannot apply to todays situation, correct?

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No, I reject your explanation because the text does not support it.
1. The scroll and the basket are two different objects.
2. The message on the scroll, on one side condemns thieves, on the other, condemns those who speak falsely. Only those two groups of people are condemned - not adulterers, those who worship idols or anyone else.
3. The angel said that the basket was their iniquity (NIV. Many Bibles have the word "appearance" or "sight"/"eye" in this verse) throughout the land. Iniquity = sin; all sin not just thieves and liars.
4. The word basket is also translated as "measuring container". This receptacle is wickedness; "measuring container" suggests that the Lord has been measuring, or keeping count of, their sin.
5. The book of Zechariah begins with the Lord saying that he was angry with their ancestors who did not listen to the prophets who told them to repent. He, the Lord, says "return to me and I will return to you", Zechariah 1:3. The rest of the book seems to be about punishing/blessing the people and also punishing their enemies.

keras said:

No, but flat rejection without a feasible alternative, is unacceptable.

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I'm not rejecting the text but your interpretation of it.
I have talked about Zechariah 5 and also about reading Scripture in context and not just applying it to today because you believe that is the right thing to do.
You have rejected that because you seem fixated on the idea that the prophets came to prophesy messages for our future. This prophecy of Zechariah's, you say, needs to be fulfilled, has not yet been and will therefore be fulfilled in the future. With that in mind, you have come up with an interpretation that has the prophet foreseeing that Iran will have nuclear bombs.
No one else anywhere in the NT even hints at such a thing.

keras said:

Why are you here then, discussing end time things?

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This is not the Eschatology section of the forum but the Controversial theology section. If it had been in the Eschatology section and I had chosen to go onto that forum just to say that I didn't want to discuss end times - that would be a valid question, because my actions and my words would be at odds with each other.
I was intrigued by the title of your thread, read it and chose to reply saying that I do not agree.

Besides, saying that the Lord has shown me things through his word - i.e taught me - by "end times" is not one of them, does not stop me from commenting on your beliefs about end times.

keras said:

The Lord has opened my eyes to how many of His Words thru the Prophets, will be accomplished.

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If they will be accomplished, then they will be accomplished. Iran might even have, and set off, a nuclear bomb.
That still doesn't mean you are correct to say that is the message of Zec 5.

Apple Sky said:

You said ' The word "earth" occurs 44 times in Job, and not one of those times says anything about the shape of the earth. '

Well sorry but it does mention the shape of the earth.

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Well, perhaps you could tell me which of the 44 mentions of earth in Job says that it is a flat disc. As I said, I looked at all 44, and couldn't find one. although I did find a verse that says God hangs the earth upon nothing, which doers fit with the globe earth.