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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Tit for Tat Tariffs - The US versus the World


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Matthew Dowd Fired from MSNBC For Vile Comments Blaming Charlie Kirk For Assassination

This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
Being fired is a punishment.

Pickering v. Board of Education

The dismissal of a public school teacher for public statements regarding issues of public importance, without a showing that his statements were knowingly or recklessly false, violated his First Amendment right to free speech.
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Tucker Carlson’s interview with far-right antisemite Nick Fuentes divides conservatives over support for Israel

Did you watch the clips?

How do you think someone demonstrates that they hate Jews? If we had a thesis, "Fuentes hates Jews," what sort of evidence would we need to produce in order to confirm that thesis?
Yes I watched. Sorry, I answered the first part of your post and forgot the second. I edited and the fuller answer is above.
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Matthew Dowd Fired from MSNBC For Vile Comments Blaming Charlie Kirk For Assassination

Potato, potahto.

How so? Which of his words is approving of murdering? You've seen the actual words at least twice now, so which ones are in any way approving murder in general or Kirk's murder specifically?

No. He said hateful words lead to hateful actions - how is that approving? That is very similar to "live by the sword, die by the sword" (ref: Matt. 26:52).

We the public pay taxes to people who have First Amendment rights. You don't have to associate with them; just let them do their jobs free from partisanship.

First, that does not describe Dowd's views, i.e. straw man. Second, you can associate with whomever you choose, according to your preferences.
Nobodies first amendment rights can be taken away. Be they a private employee, or Public...
.Nobody has charged him with a crime for his speech.
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TRUMP "MISSED THE DEADLINE" TO CALL OFF TX GERRYMANDERING; CALIFORNIA WILL NOW DRAW NEW, MORE “BEAUTIFUL MAPS”

Bannon: ‘Warning signs are flashing’ for GOP ahead of midterms

“One of the biggest warning signs that we … need to get focused, is the two commissioners in Georgia that [Georgia GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene] mentioned,” Bannon said on the podcast.

Democratic candidates Alicia Johnson and Peter Hubbard, who ran for Georgia Public Service commissioner in Districts 2 and 3, respectively, defeated GOP incumbents Tim Echols and Fitz Johnson.

Johnson and Hubbard became the first Democrats to win a Public Service Commission race since 2000, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.


Perhaps the GOP can change some of its unpopular positions into more popular ones? Nah. Lawfare.

Bannon said Trump should sue California over voters’ approval of Proposition 50, which redraws the state’s congressional maps, and have federal agencies investigate Mamdani’s citizenship.
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Morality without Absolute Morality

Your attempts to put me on the hot seat are pure distraction. It's not on me to provide the solution, it's enough for me to raise the problem.

No, i won't answer questions that distract from the topic at hand. Relative morality is an oxymoron.
Then objective morality doesn't exist. And it's not that you have failed. You haven't even put a case forward.

You have had dozens of opportunities to put forward an argument for it. You decline to do so. You have been given many examples of moral matters and asked how you determine whether it is right or wrong. You have refused. You have been given detailed explanations of how people decide between right and wrong. You have simply hand waved them away as sophistry.

This hasn't been a discussion. It has been people putting forward their views on matters that they have thought about for decades. And you have refused to engage, except to constantly say 'No, you're wrong!' without putting forward the slightest indication of how you think it works. None whatsoever.

What a complete and utter waste of time.
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Matthew Dowd Fired from MSNBC For Vile Comments Blaming Charlie Kirk For Assassination

No it applies to the government. The government cannot punish speech it doesn't like. Such as firing an employee for non-work-related speech.
This is not punishing speech. Nobody charged him with a crime!
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Vatican stops use of titles for Mary

There are plenty of non Roman Catholics who are very informative and offer a lot on this forum. Some people are I'll informed and some people are not.
True -
Just don't be so sensitive when someone corrects you.
Telling someone to read between the lines is not a correction - it is an assumption at best.
I and His Church agree 100 percent.
Yup - the 'Protestant church sure does - we are his church also -
So again, what was the purpose of your post? Was it to tell this forum that the teaching of His Church has not changed and that His Church teaches that Jesus Christ is the Sole Mediator?
To talk about the article from the Vatican and the obvious corrections they are making - read the article.
Or was there another motive?
perhaps only one that you imagine - from me personally - none other.
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Trump's Big Beautiful.....Gold Ballroom

It's spreading out of the Oval Office

View attachment 370970

I hope that's not solid gold. That's a waste of money.

At least I think it's clear this came out of a color printer, so possibly more expensive than gold. Have you seen those refill prices? Looks like they're almost out, too.

1762378851141.png
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

We don't argue against the fact that He makes it possible. We argue that our resistance can still thwart His purpose with it from actually happening. Your whole argument to begin with was that the word, by itself, necessarily indicates sufficient movement:
What I'm trying to point out to you is that your understanding of ἑλκύω necessitates that God does not necessarily make it possible. That is the implication of what you are saying, whether intended or not. What is the verb in John 6:44 that ἑλκύω conceptually modifies? δύναται, "is able." The drawing act of the Father is an act of moving the recipient from the state of "unable" to the state of "able." So if you say that this drawing can fail, what you are saying is that there is no guarantee that the Father succeeds in making it possible for people to come to Him.

I understand the point you're wanting to make regarding John 6:44 -- just because someone can come doesn't mean they will -- but what you're missing is that the semantics of ἑλκύω have nothing to do with that debate. ἑλκύω doesn't grammatically answer the question of whether or not someone actually comes to Christ. It answers the question of whether or not someone is able to do so. So when you suggest that ἑλκύω itself is not guaranteed to succeed, what you're implying is that God can attempt to make it possible for someone to come to Him, but there is no guarantee that attempt will succeed, that is, in making it possible.

It does not hurt your position in any way, in other words, to agree with me that ἑλκύω refers to a decisive movement from one position to another. That is not where the argument for irresistibility lies in the verse. The argument that the drawing (enabling) of the Father leads irresistibly to faith in Christ is a grammatical one, focused on the identity of αὐτόν ("him") grammatically uniting the actions of "draws" and "raised up."
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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

Imputation (ellogao) of Ro 4:1-5 is not a "recognition," it is an accounting to, a crediting to, a reckoning to. . .in this case of "righteousness,"
just as Adam's sin is likewise accounted to, credited to, reckoned to (imputed to) mankind (Ro 5:17, 18-19).
Are you serious? Abraham was credited, counted, declared, reckoned righteous because he did the most basic act of righteousness a man can make before God. He turned to and acknowledged and obeyed Him as God.
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the "blue wave" last night and the government shutdown

To date, no Democrat has shown how universal healthcare would be funded;

:rolleyes:




And, some general reading:

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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

I worship every day. I rest on the Shabbat as eternally commanded.

Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

Yes please post the exact wording of those who you claim spoke against Yah's eternal word.
I also worship every day but go to services on the Lords day which is Sunday. If you are Jewish then Exodus 31:16 applies to you.

Here is the ECF citations. Sorry for the length. I have others from the early third century if you wish to see them.

The Didache​

1. But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas​

Since, therefore, the days are evil, and Satan possesses the power of this world, we ought to give heed to ourselves, and diligently inquire into the ordinances of the Lord. Fear and patience, then, are helpers of our faith; and long-suffering and continence are things which fight on our side. While these remain pure in what respects the Lord, Wisdom, Understanding, Science, and Knowledge rejoice along with them. For He hath revealed to us by all the prophets that He needs neither sacrifices, nor burnt-offerings, nor oblations, saying thus, “What is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me, saith the Lord? I am full of burnt-offerings, and desire not the fat of lambs, and the blood of bulls and goats, not when ye come to appear before Me: for who hath required these things at your hands? Tread no more My courts, not though ye bring with you fine flour. Incense is a vain abomination unto Me, and your new moons and sabbaths I cannot endure.” He has therefore abolished these things, that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is without the yoke of necessity, might have a human oblation (The Epistle of Barnabas 1 Chapter II.—The Jewish sacrifices are now abolished.)
Further, He says to them, “Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure.” Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens. (The Epistle of Barnabas Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath. [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch​

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master (Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).
During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr​

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure. (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)
For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts? (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. (First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).
“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)
“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)
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B flat B♭

Don't be silly ^_^
Then don't post nonsense. This is what you claim regarding crepuscular rays, that the sun is local, but it simply demonstrates that you do not properly understand perspective and how it affects the appearance of parallel rays.
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Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

I know people who are incapacitated, who live on government assistance; but most people have to work.

(CLV) 2Th 3:10
For even when we were with you, we gave this charge to you: that "If anyone is not willing to work, neither let him eat."
Problem with understanding text?

Read post #56 again.
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An open letter to the US vice president from an ex Muslim convert

Danny Burmawi seems like a polemicist and ideologue. Even his organization, the Ideological Defense Institute, should be ringing alarm bells about his agenda. I'm not saying Christian persecution in the Middle East isn't real but... this guys narrative is overly simplistic and theological.
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the "blue wave" last night and the government shutdown

so does that mean that doctors do not allow people to pay what they can. In my admittedly limited experenice doctors/hospitals here have offered payment plans. Now, if you do not pay like you say you will and you do not asks to change your plan yes it will go on your credit report and that provider may be less inclined to work with you on plans later.
The problem is so many patients have paid minimum or nothing at all after receiving services in the past. Doctors are now going to want all or a substantial portion of paid up front or cancel appointments and elective procedures. Keep in mind that any procedure that is not emergent is considered elective, even if it is for a serious condition.

Doctors have bills to pay too if they want to stay in business and non paying customers don’t pay the bills.
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Vatican stops use of titles for Mary

Oh the apparition movement and such. Thanks.

Specifically one such apparition. As an Orthodox I can tell you Our Lady appears routinely and I accept most Roman Catholic apparitions uncritically. In the case of Our Lady of Fatima, there is some concern over what was meant by “the conversion of Russia” since obviously Russia did not need to be converted, except from the Communist Bolshevik infestation, and after a few years of that the people were quite ready to be converted back. Medjugorje I don’t think has been officially endorsed and if it was, I wouldn’t accept it.

However, Our Lady of Guadalupe, now that was a miracle, in which an Aztec miraculously painted an icon of the Theotokos with many features only seen in Eastern Orthodox icons, such as a mandorla, and that icon led to the mass-abandonment of the horrific Mesoamerican human sacrifice religions such as those of the Mexica and Maya peoples.
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B flat B♭

The Earth stands still while our stars do this:
testimonial-7.jpg
The don't on the equator, and once you cross the equator they rotate in the opposite direction.

And this simple, verifiable reality can never be explained by the flat earth model.
And our "planets," once known as our wandering stars do this:
fUB2mES.png

This is what we have observed throughout at least the time that men have looked to the sky.
Hardly, seeing as Neptune and Uranus weren't discovered until the 1800's
And this simple, verifiable reality can never be explained by heliocentrism.
It is absolutely explained by heliocentrism. Anyone who claims otherwise is either wilfully ignorant or lying through their teeth.

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Tucker Carlson’s interview with far-right antisemite Nick Fuentes divides conservatives over support for Israel

But doesn't this answer your initial question?
I asked for links where he hates Jews, not "says bad things about them". I say bad things about our politicians or other groups. I don't hate them. Jesus said bad things about groups, Jews in particular, and we know He is love.
To be clear, and in response to your post from the other thread, the portion of the video I linked is a number of clips of Fuentes promoting certain views or engaging in certain forms of rhetoric. Shapiro only appears for the first few seconds.
I watched the Nick parts of the clip. Nick's a showman, I think he loves being internet-famous, that's why I even doubt his sincerity to an extent.

In his earliest appearance on YouTube, he had a very different, toned-down personality. He was trying be like a normal mainstream news pundit. I recall when he was analyzing the 2016 candidates, he said Trump was "okay" but needed to dial down the rudeness and abrasiveness. Then Trump won the primary, and Nick's personality immediately changed. Like a light bulb went off over his head. He considered that the American people liked hearing blunt things from Trump, so he was going to out-Trump Trump.

He does things for effect. He's smiling broadly when he says he likes Hitler. He said those in power who practice demonry and witchcraft to inflict evil on our land should be killed, and some of them would be Jews. He didn't say Jews should be killed as Shapiro said he said.

But Shapiro is correct that the Left created him.
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