camille70 said:

They have daily ballroom events?

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Ooooh, maybe I can lose my glass slipper and be discovered by someone!

Aldebaran said:

What's to negotiate? The Republicans all voted to keep the government open. Democrats all voted to NOT keep it open. Now people suffer because it's shut down.
When Republicans were in the minority, they were blamed for shutdowns. Now it's dems in the minority, and Republicans still get blamed for the shutdown. Should Republicans negotiate with the MSM to stop the bias in their reporting? Or should they negotiate with the dems to stop relying on MSM bias and using government workers as bargaining chips, and holding the American economy hostage?

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Once could fix the shutdown in one day by stating that all USA debt would be defaulted on if the debt ceiling was not raised.
But more precisely to your comment. I suspect there is bias in the MSM. However, every shutdown has a different set of issues so blame is not just about minorty/majority, it is about why they refuse to bump up the ceiling. I favor Rand Paul, true conservative position, that the deficits are out of control and unless more is done I would vote against raising the ceiling. Though unpopular at the time, Rep. Ron Paul vogted against the Iraq war. Funny he was right, just as I believe his son is on the budget. It is too bad that more principled Republicans are so critically missing in these loose times.

Tuur said:

Here's our disagreement: I say there's no real equilibrium. Even if there were no humans on the planet, CO2 would fluctuate; it has in the past.

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If you are talking DEEP past - the earth was a lot hotter then and had far more volcanoes spewing CO2 out all the time. In fact - these volcanoes may have saved life on earth from the Snowball Earth by poking through the planet wide ice sheets and spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere - eventually cooking the place. The storms that resulted had such severe acid rain from all that CO2 that it melted rock!

Tuur said:

It's all constantly varying, and not just CO2.

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Yes - and they know why. There are many climate forcings, from BIG SLOW ones to smaller short ones.

EG: There's the "long" carbon cycle - with CO2 being trapped by algae life in the bottom of the ocean for millions of years, then getting caught up in a magma flow and being spewed back out a volcano. This has gradually shrunk with the slow cooling of the planet over tens of millions of years - as a general trend.

But sometimes rare volcanic events can spew more CO2 than normal - and cook the place up again.
This is not happening today, and volcanoes are about 1% of our emissions.

Tuur said:

There's fluctuations in output from the sun, not terribly great but the sun is very big and the earth is very small.

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All measured and understood by the IPCC. IF you bothered to read their reports!

Tuur said:

At the moment discounting variations from axis wobble and when aphelion and perihelion occurs in respect to the seasons because, while these are variations, they are over long spans of time.

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Milankovitch cycles help the earth COOL from where we are - not COOK into a hothouse earth!
Also - about 40% of the depths of the coolest phase of an ice age are from CO2 sources getting trapped by encroaching ice sheets!

Even with something as enormous as the wobble of our planet on it's merry way around the sun, changing the angles sunlight hits the earth, CO2 has a role!

Tuur said:

Also discounting the predicted brightening of the sun, since that's longer term than variations due to the earth's orbit.

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Yes! Agreed! So we have to be MORE careful than the dinosaurs about how much CO2 is in the air.

The sun is 2% warmer than back then! That's another long term forcing!
So is the position of the continents on the planet.

But these are such long term things that we will not notice them.

We've nearly doubled CO2 in the geological blink of an eye!

Tuur said:

If I wanted to be extra persnickety, I'd throw in the effects of continental drift.

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Ah, good. Yes. But as if we're not going to adapt to that in time, hey? We replace a good portion of our cities every 60 years. Continental drift is in the 10's of millions of years!

Tuur said:

But even without long them effects, it's not fixed. It just seems that way to us because we're relatively short lived.

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Right - so how do the IPCC study the natural forcings and conclude CO2 is what's cooking us, hmmmmmmm?

Tuur said:

What you term equilibrium I think of as a sort of inertia based on the time it takes for change. We know that CO2 can be naturally removed because it's happened before. It takes time, but it happened. "Tipping point" is a loaded term.

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No - it's a scientifically valid concept explained in layman's terms.

Basically, climate activists are saying "It REALLY looks like there's an ice-berg ahead" to the Captain of the Titanic. It hasn't hit yet - and even if it does - there are still the lifeboats. But I'd rather save this beautiful ship!

Tuur said:

Even if AGW turns out to be real, it's not permanently changing the thermostat settings. "Tipping point" implies otherwise.

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Watch Johan!

Login to view embedded media
If you're saying "Permanently" in terms of the entire planetary life of the earth - so what? On that timescale, of course climate is not 'fixed'. Eventually the CO2 might get sucked back up, the surface of the earth might finally be repopulated with plant life - and ice ages might eventually return. But that's a LONG time away from a human civilisation point of view!

Barring the Lord's return - the sun would eventually expand and burn the earth! But that's not what we are talking about!

We are talking about the optimal way to keep both human civilisation and the biosphere intact, the way we like it, now.
People and planet.

Watch Johan.

Border Patrol Chief Gregory Bovino accused of violating restraining order by throwing tear gas in Little Village



Greg Bovino Immediately Flouts Chicago Court Order, Lawyers Say

JM said:

Your reminded me of this old joke.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”

The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”

To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”

To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”

To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”

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I have used that one often, except it was a boat all three times.
It is good to have faith. But you have to know how God is going to answer your faith. If you are upstream from a dam that is about to burst, what do you do with your family? Do you sit there chanting that God will save you, or do you cram your wife and kids into the car and head uphill for grandma's house? I love faith, but you have to be wise also. God told Noah the flood was coming. He did not just sit down and wait for God to save him. It says he believed God and FEARED, as so built the ark to the saving of his family.
Do what God tells you. But don't just assume doing nothing is the answer. I have found that it rarely is the answer.

BCP1928 said:

They have rejected the NIcene Creed as a basic statement of the Christian faith yet use the name of Christ to advance a Christian nationalist political agenda.

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Obviously I disagree but filth seems like too strong a word.

BCP1928 said:

I don't want to be seen as speaking for my faith group, with which I sometimes disagree.

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Fair enough I guess.

BCP1928 said:

If you really want to know, here is a plain clue in my screen name.

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Ha, I should have caught that.

You seem to be struggling with the apologist's gap. I overcome it in two ways, first I compare what must be true about God in order for Him to even be possibly real with what Scripture says about God. In order to accomplish this, I examine the premises of the ontological argument and ask, what about God is it that makes the ontological argument forceful? Which, in my estimation is the fact that God is the one truth that is so blazingly obvious that the only way to deny His existence is for it you to fail to even begin to grasp the concept. God is the one true axiom. The question is, is that expressed anywhere in religious texts? I'm not sure if it occurs anywhere else, but there are two distinct aspects of the Bible that express this. The first is Exodus 3:14, where God refers to HImself as what can be roughly translated as "I exist because I exist" or perhaps more accurately "I will continue existing because I will continue existing". This allows me to accept the Bible as at least one possibility to find more information about God, so the question is then narrowed down to whether the Jews are right and Jesus was a false prophet or if the Christians are right and Jesus is God incarnate. What settles this for me is that I find all non-miraculous explanations of the resurrection to not be as good as accepting the resurrection was a true event, and as a consequence I trust Jesus. Though that conversation requires much more in depth discussion. As for who among the Christians is right in their doctrine, for that I just use critical thinking skills and come to my own conclusions to the best I can and hope that my sincerity is enough, recognizing that I will inevitably not understand things or come to wrong conclusions and need to adjust them in light of new information. Hope that helps.

Clare73 said:

But the Bible does say that we are by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), born with the sin of Adam charged/imputed to us (Ro 5:17, 18-19).

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Well . . . how did the sin move from Adam to other humans? I consider "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" spread.

I would say that because Adam and Eve were God's "very good" creation, they good of their own selves would not have started what is evil. It took work.

Vambram said:

They are not doing it illegally.

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People who shoot others illegally are not doing it illegally?

Neogaia777 said:

Revelation 11:18

God talks about what could be maybe some environmental consequences after that maybe.

Do I know for sure that this is what God means in this passage? No, I don't, but it is interesting however.

Put to ruin those ruining or destroying the earth, etc.

Unleashing the four corners of the earth, and certain what could be environmental consequences maybe, could mean this, or be a result of this also maybe? But I don't know that for sure however, etc.

God Bless.

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This is a science forum - but I'm happy to discuss the theology of this over in this thread I have just joined. Failed climate predictions from false prophets

According to the nonsense spouted by UnchartedX and others, the Roman Lycurgus Cup is an example of the Romans possessing nanotechnology which then vanished only to reappear in the 1950s.

When the story however is conveyed by an archaeologist and historian it is not as fantastic sounding when testing, peer review, archaeological and historical research paints a more conventional picture.
Fast forward to around the 5 minute mark if you are not interested in the background details.

Clare73 said:

Eph 2:2 refers to the influence over humanity through the realm of demonic power (the ruler of the kingdom of the air) that influences the disobedient.

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You can work in a person to influence the person.

How many of those who reported sightings, were on psychedelics?

Oompa Loompa said:

What does the word "fascist" mean to you?

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A right wing authoritarian government with an obsession with maintaining cultural purity and a disregard for individual rights.

From Wikipedia:

Fascism is characterized by a dictatorialleader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Opposed to communism, democracy, liberalism, pluralism, and socialism,[5][6]fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum.

That’s pretty much what we are living in.

truthpls said:

"April 1970, Erlich in Mademoiselle: “Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”

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Ehrlich was not a climatologist - and was not talking about global warming. Instead he came up with the illustration of I=PAT to show the importance of human Population's impact on the biosphere, which of course is self evidence. Impact = Population * Affluence (consumption of resources) * Technology.

But he got a bit carried away with his illustration - and thought it was a determinative algorithm for predicting the future. It's not. It is an illustration only. Each individual nation needs analysis. Claims about environmental impact are a huge subject, and involve so many assumptions about resources and technologies it is hard to map this stuff out, even for some of the experts.

truthpls said:

Harvard biologist and Nobel Prize winner George Wald, speaking at the University of Rhode Island in November 1970: “Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”

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I had a brief look at George Wald - and he appears to be from a medical background and seemed to have been talking about the dangerous of both environmental pressure and societal tension leading to nuclear war.

The fact that a full scale nuclear war would be TEOTWAWKI is self evident.

truthpls said:

-- in July 2009, then-Prince Charles chimed in, asserting the planet had 96 months to avoid decimation: “…irretrievable climate and ecosystem collapse, and all that goes with it."

Doomsday Addiction: Celebrating 50 years of Failed Climate Predictions

Politicians, scientists, and celebs assure us the apocalypse is tomorrow, and if not, the day after will do. Buckle up for a look at 50 years of cataclysmic predictions.

www.agweb.com

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KING CHARLES AN ODD DUCK - BUT HAS A HANDLE ON SOME THINGS
Hmm, now this one is interesting. Charles raises some questions us Christians especially should really think about! I think we could learn a lot from this speech if we slowed down and shook some alt-right MAGA politics out of our brains to THINK BIBLICALLY for a moment about it all.

Note that Charles DID NOT say the world would end in 8 years! He was saying we had 8 years to get things in play to avoid “…irretrievable climate and ecosystem collapse" - but he did not say when that would begin. Some of these things are less like that project due at work, and more like that tapping noise in the engine that really should get serviced "soonish" - because you're not quite sure when it's going to wear out the other moving parts in the engine - and when they're going to blow.

FUDGING or STATISTICAL PROBABILITY?
I am not fudging this. This is sort of how enormous climate-scaled systems work. See - as the old analogy goes - climate is a bit like personality. You can be calm and zen and generally trustworthy to act appropriately on a given day. Sure - you might be angry if some kid bullies your kid mercilessly at school. But it's not psychotic rage - and generally does not involve taking an automatic weapon to the school to wipe out everyone involved!

Climate change is when people start to say "Are you OK? That was a bit over the top. Also - you're not as happy as you used to be." That's when things are just starting to go wrong. You're not acting out ALL the time - constantly Hulk raging - but something's wrong. And if your underlying problem is ignored - you could get more and more depressed, and have worse and worse outbursts.

Climate change disasters are not a button that switches between ON or OFF. They're a sliding scale. Or another metaphor: weather like a toddler in the bathtub, making waves in the water. That variability in the water is the weather. Climate change is the fact that someone left the tap on, and those waves - those patterns in the weather - sure are starting to get worse and more serious!

The coral reefs around the world are bleaching, the glaciers are retreating, and even the seasons are arriving too early for some basic food web patterns to work. Grubs hatch before the baby birds, so that the parent birds have less to feed them by the time the chicks hatch. Human impacts from heatwaves, bushfires, and the atmosphere being wetter - the impacts are already starting!

But we are not even near the tipping points yet.

DELAYING DOOMSDAY?
Sure - if you listen to Paul Ehrlich and George Wald above as "greenie doomsdays that got delayed." But that in itself is a form of intellectual dishonesty - of fudging. Because what we are talking about here is not generic greenie pessimism.

It's very specific. It's about increasing costs of out-of-the-norm weather. Until say the last few years, climatologists were reluctant to put a percentage of climate influence on any one event. Now they can! The statistical modelling has got to the point where they can sort of pull the climate fingerprint out of the statistical noise of weather. Look out for those reports! It's already started! King Charles may not have been that far off!

The overall picture from climate science has got a LOT worse rather than better. In another thread a denier accused the climate scientists of always delaying doomsday - setting the deadline back. Nothing could be further from the truth! In the following graph (from the TED Talk by Johan Rockström) you can see that red is the danger zone when naturally stored carbon starts burping into the atmosphere and nature takes over and starts warming itself! As you can see - the more paleoclimate data has come in from the deep past - the more urgent the situation becomes! We're starting to see various things happening now!

RED = scientific understanding of that IPCC report as to when tipping points might start (that have the potential to accelerate all the bad things to TEOTWAWKI).

Please note it even crept forward from 2018 to 2022's report.

truthpls said:

the actual future prophesied in the bible.

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I'm Amil. Revelation is a symbolic sermon on suffering to Roman Christians - with our gospel hope of the return of the Lord to fix all evils wound through the book in a non-Chronological order. So we see the Lord returning at the end of Chapter 6, and at multiple other points. It simply doesn't work as an end-times-table of the end of the world - and if it WAS some kind of future timetable - what GOOD has it been for the church for 2000 years? This futurist way of reading Revelation is a relatively recent American invention in church history.

rambot said:

It seems like there haven't been many pointed discussions about the economy down in the US right now.
Seems that the DOW continues to improve.
Unemployment is at BEST, underwhelming.
The inflation on foods is becoming quite untenable for many.
Farming, as an American industry is on the brink of complete disaster (if we are to believe American farmers)

But I don't live there.

What are you passionate about here? What are the really GREAT things you see happenning? What are the troubling things?

I'm curious.

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In a nutshell, if you low income economy is extremely bad / if you are in Middle income economy is fair / if you're in high-end income it really doesn't bother you but you will complain / if you're wealthy rich it can't touch you.

The low income has struggled all of their lives, so they do their best to adjust, they don't have a choice, it's nothing new.

Yarddog said:

Nope, at least not yet. He's a fascist and wanta be king.

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What does the word "fascist" mean to you?

Not a carport:



Not a carport:


Not a carport:

Vambram said:

President Trump won a strong majority of votes in 31 states. He did win a mandate.

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49.8%=”mandate” now?

Postvieww said:

Border is now secure!

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thanks to 140 billion dollars and 8000 troops.

Postvieww said:

My eggs are cheaper. Everyone was freaking out over the price of eggs.

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Yeah, that bird flu thing was a problem

Postvieww said:

This is absolutely absurd. The truth is the country did not want an incompetent president. Her skin color and gender were not factors. There are competent CONSERVATIVE black women I would have voted for had they been the candidate. Kamala was not the candidate by the the votes of her party! She was installed as candidate by an undemocratic process. Kamala was not a competent VP and had no qualifications to be President.

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I agree with you that it does sound absurd and I regret posting it. What was on my mind was a panel of voters who were asked if they felt her being a black woman would be a detriment. Surprisingly more than half of them said yes.

Daniel Marsh said:

cults critical thinking



I have witnessed to those in cults over 60years. What stands out is their lack of critical thinking skills.



Word Study fallacies, Logic errors, redefiniton of words are common among them.



Maybe others can share examples. My wife will kick me off soon.

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One leader comes to mind.

Darya

BobRyan said:

from "one end of the SKY to the other" has nothing about "local only"
"ALL nations will see" has nothing in it about "Local only"

1 Thess 4:13-18 is just like Matt 24 , it does not explicitly say "end up in heaven" but we know that is exactly what happens at the rapture. The saints are taken to heaven

Yep. Just like Matt 24. That is the only reason ever given in the NT for all saints being up in the sky



Nothing in 1 Thess 4 or Matt 24 says anything.

Nope. Nothing at all about seven years of anything at all in Matt 24 or 1 Thess 4 or Rev 19

in fact they do. The mark the taking up of the saints into the sky

There is appear in the sky in Matt 24 and Rev 19 but there is no "lands on Earth" in either chapter.

John 14 "I will come again and receive you (up) to Myself" , when Jesus appears in Matt 24, 1 Thess 4, Rev 14, Rev 19 He takes the saints to heaven. It is one singular event as John 14 says.

1000 years later we have the final Armageddon battle, the first one being in Rev 19 and also seen in 2 Thess 1:5-8

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“Locally” was intended as “Earth,” as opposed to a rapture to Heaven.

Again, the trumpet in Matt 24:31 gathers “the elect” (Jews that survive the Trib) after Armageddon. That trumpet only gathers living Jews who survive the Trib (Matt 24:22). There’s no verbiage that even suggests going to Heaven.

The trumpet in 1 Th 4:16 first gathers the dead in Christ. Matt 24:31 doesn’t do any of that. 1 Th 4:17 then gathers all living believers. Matt 24:31 only gathers Jews. 1 Th 4:17 takes all gathered in 1 Th 4:16 to Heaven. Those gathered in Matt 24:31 remain on Earth. Jesus is on Earth for Armageddon, the gathering in Matt 24:31, the next two judgments (Matt 25:31-46), then the millennial kingdom for 1,000 years.