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HIM · Nov 6, 2025

PloverWing said:
The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) ruled that Gentiles do not have to convert to Judaism to become Christians, and Paul's letters are consistent with this ruling.

You are misunderstanding Acts and No Paul’s are not

NewLifeInChristJesus · Nov 6, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Yeah that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make with John 3:18. Are the unbelievers judged already because of their unbelief or are they unbelievers because they’ve been judged already? The passage clearly states that they have been judged already because of their unbelief.

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Obviously his claim about the Greek grammar is incorrect because this passage proves it. Not only that but in John 12:36 Jesus specifically said that we have to believe in order to become sons of Light which is synonymous with being born again.

“While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭36‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And even after presenting this evidence he still says that being born again precedes belief.

This is an important tennet of reformed theology. It makes sense that they would defend it at all cost.

fhansen · Nov 6, 2025

Dan1988 said:
Are you serious, I never mentioned the Church,

That's a problem in Christianity, rampant ignorance of history and the teachings of the early church. The church was all there was-it's how people learned the faith, that same faith that came down to my semi-literate grandmother from the foothills of the Italian Alps over a century ago. And she had one of the most simple, beautiful, deep and productive faiths I've ever known.

Dan1988 said:
and I have no idea why you think that Gnosticism is a part of the Body of Christ.

And I never mentioned Gnosticism. In fact, that same church rejected gnostic writings while assembling the canon of the new testament which you possess today, The bible didn’t fall down from heaven in complete form- and the church knew and taught the gospel before a word of the new testament was even written.

Dan1988 said:
The rest of your reply is a patchwork of incoherent unbiblical, Gnosticism. You start out claiming that the new covenant was never intended as a reprieve from mans obligation to be righteous, with or without regard to the law.

This is self defeating and contradictory, because if we are still obliged to be righteous then that brings us back under the "covenant of the law" and not the "covenant of grace". You can't mix the two covenants together, to create a new doctrine

Grace isn't just God's favor; it's His life in us. And if that doesn't mean "improvment" in us and our behavior, as if Jesus just came so we could remain in our sins, then Christianity would be a joke, a joke of satan's. Turn the question around. Can/should Christians expect to enter heaven if they were to persist in wanton, ergregious sin, aka lawlessness? A righteous person, with a righteousness made possible only by communion with God, doesn't even need to hear the law in order to obey His will, let alone be under the covenant of the law. Grace produces obedience, making you a slave to righteousness (Rom 6); it doesn't keep you in disobedience, disobedience being the basic, original sin of Adam that separated man from God to begin with! At least read the letters of John.

It should go without saying but it's OK to be obligated to be good, to love, to put it best. in the true Christian vernacular. The gospel, the new covenant, finally gives us the authentic way to achieve that- by virtue of reconciled union with God, the only Way. Here's some wisdom of the ages, properly understood:

"The law was given that grace might be sought; and grace was given that the law might be fulfilled." (Augustine, On the Spirit and the Letter)

durangodawood · Nov 6, 2025

Chesterton said:
I agree that's silly. Mamdani's not going to fly a plane into a building (I don't think). They don't use the same tactics twice. .....

You think his goal is to destroy the city as part of an Islamic jihad motivation?

durangodawood · Nov 6, 2025

probinson said:
Please don't try to tell me that people don't want partisan gerrymandering when just days ago that's exactly what they voted for.

You have a strange problem with the concept of a hierarchy of values.

Obviously CA voters on average want
First: the same rules for everyone
Second: no gerrymandering

They want both. But if circumstances force them to pick just one, its a fair contest by the same rules. This seems sensible to me.

Hentenza · Nov 6, 2025

HARK! said:
No he wasn't. He was speaking of the lawless. Yah doesn't break out a category of ceremonial law. That is an invention of man.

Here are some telling clues:

1. Yah gave the instruction to obey his Torah. His Torah is an expression of his character; and Yah doesn't change.

God did not change, He merely ushered in a new covenant. The law is not included. Jesus fulfilled it fully.

HARK! said:
2.) This passage was delivered before Yahshua came. Yahshua kept the Torah; and so did his disciples; and he told us to do the same.

Jesus was the ONLY one that was able to keep the law. No one else ever did. Jesus gave us two commandments that enveloped ALL of the law and the prophets.

durangodawood · Nov 6, 2025

JSRG said:
The Supreme Court ruled that partisan gerrymandering isn't unconstitutional. And I think they were right to do so. Much as I dislike partisan gerrymandering, I don't think it's unconstitutional. And they certainly didn't disallow any commissions from being made.

If anyone's to blame here, it's Congress. Congress has had, since the day the Constitution was ratified, the ability to fix the issue:

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

In other words, states decide how to hold their House/Senate elections, but congress can change it whenever it wants, with the obvious exception they have to stick with state borders when it comes to Senators. Congress could require every state to set up commissions to set borders, or any other number of things (proportional representation?) that would solve the issue. This has been a known issue since 1812 when the term gerrymander was first created. Congress has had more than 200 years to do something about this. The blame goes there. (though I suppose if congress did step in, they might just make the problem worse by whatever party is in power gerrymandering every state in their favor)

Not sure I agree.

The manner of holding elections is not the same as what we're voting for. The "manner of holding elections" is Tuesday or Weds. Or all week. Mail or in person.

In terms of what we're voting for, its pretty clear that in principle we're supposed to be voting for representatives. Gerrymandering degrades the concept of representation pretty severely.

CoreyD · Nov 6, 2025

Derf said:
The thing about starlight is that if it reached earth in the time earth ticked off 4 days, it could have taken millions or billions of relative years in that amount of time on earth.

The thing is, we note that light reached earth on day one. Genesis 1:3-5
So, before God started creating any living thing, light was available on earth.
What was not yet visible from earth, is the heavenly bodies, and that's understandable considering what might have been involved in the formation of the planet.

Derf said:
None of that is on the topic of the biblicity of one or the other. But when the bible talks about "ancient" times, it seems to refer mostly to something within it's own timeline, and commensurate with 6000 or so years.

That is true.
In contrast to the "Ancient of days". Daniel 7:9

lucypevensie · Nov 6, 2025

Perfect people do not exist.

Clare73 · Nov 6, 2025

fhansen said:
Most whose theology resembles your own have no problem with "declared" as they believe it refers to a legal change in status only in God's eyes. But I listed two other words there: "reckoned" and "credited". There are two Greek words used in Rom 4 for these concepts (and neither are used in the other passages you mentioned). The words are: elogisthē, used 5 times by my count, and logizetai, also 5 times.

elogisthē: reckon, account, charge, numbered
logizetai: count, reckon, credit, calculate
The only translation offhand where I could find "impute" was the KJV and NKJV, 5 times out of 10, sometimes used for elogisthē, sometimes for logizetai. "Reckon" was used more often than not in all translations, with "counted" or "credited" following.
But the real question here is, why does God reckon us righteous when we believe?

The same reason he reckoned Abraham righteous when he believed in the promise (Ge 5:5-6, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).
It is through faith that we access Christ's righteousness imputed to us (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

Both words above mean "impute," to put down to a person's account.

Logizetai is better translated "reckon/account" (Ro 4:6 8, 11, 22, 23, 24, 2 Co 5:19, Jas 2:23)

fhansen said:
Is it because He counts/reckons faith as righteousness, or is it because He merely now sees us as righteous because we believe? And what does impute mean here? How is it used?

"Impute" is "to charge to, to lay to one's account, to reckon as."

God reckons (imputes, accounts) us as righteous when we believe because he thereby imputes (reckons, accounts, credits) Christ's righteousness to us (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9), just as he imputed (reckoned) Adam's sin to us (Ro 5:14, 17, 18-19) by birth (Eph 2:3).

essentialsaltes · Nov 6, 2025

essentialsaltes said:
Department of Transportation might be forced to shut down some airspace next week: Duffy
"You will see mass chaos," Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said.

Trump administration will reduce traffic at 40 airports across the US starting Friday if shutdown continues

Ten percent of air traffic at 40 busy airports would be cut, potentially impacting thousands of flights, though the details of how many and which specific airports will be cut was not announced.

The nation’s “core 30” airports – including New York City’s three big hubs, plus major airports in Washington, DC, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and across the West from Phoenix to Seattle – are among those on a preliminary list of sites expected to be impacted by the drawdown, an FAA source with direct knowledge of the situation told CNN.

“As we start to implement this drawdown in service. It will be restricted to these 40 high volume traffic markets,” FAA Administrator Bryan Bedford said. “We’re going to ask the airlines to work with us collaboratively to reduce their schedules.”

The airlines were notified of the plan only about an hour before it was announced, an airline source told CNN.

The announcement comes as air traffic controller staffing shortagesduring the shutdown are delaying an increasing number of flights throughout the country. Controllers will miss their second full paycheck next week and some are taking second jobs to make ends meet or calling in sick in protest.

BCP1928 · Nov 6, 2025

West Bank Christians are mostly Greek Orthodox or Catholic. You won't get much sympathy for them from the conservative MAGA Christians in this forum.

lucypevensie · Nov 6, 2025

Office meeting

lucypevensie · Nov 6, 2025

Kill off repulsive egotistical attitudes.

ATTIT

lucypevensie · Nov 6, 2025

Your mom knows Latin?

RMOM

essentialsaltes · Nov 6, 2025

probinson said:
Please don't try to tell me that people don't want partisan gerrymandering when just days ago that's exactly what they voted for.

We want the rules to be uniform. Otherwise, being virtuous gets you the reward of getting stomped by the vicious. Trump asked Texas for some additional viciousness, and he has reaped more.

RocksInMyHead · Nov 6, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Unless all Americans are willing to pay an average tax rate of 35% - 40%, as is common in many European countries, universal healthcare remains largely a theoretical policy.

You forget that the vast majority of Americans are effectively paying that tax already by covering their own health insurance premiums, either out of their own pockets or as a portion of their total compensation from their employer (or both). The employee-funded portion of my health insurance premiums is about 5% of my income, and that's with my employer covering 75%. If I had to purchase health insurance on the open market and pay the full premium out of pocket, I'd probably be spending 15-20% of my income just on that.

lucypevensie · Nov 6, 2025

require good food and good people with fun activities.

Do you like to play…

NewLifeInChristJesus · Nov 6, 2025

Dikaioumenoi said:
Not strictly on grammar alone. I focused on grammar because 1 John 5:1 is a straightforward example of how the perfect tense is typically used with present participles, especially in 1 John. The perfect passive ("has been born of God") describes a completed ontological event with ongoing effects. It's natural to use a present participle ("believes") to describe those present effects. That's the relationship of these verb forms in the vast majority of instances. That doesn't mean the verb forms themselves always indicate that relationship (they don't). But this is a pretty straightforward statement, so the grammar alone should suffice to make the point. If not, the broader context of 1 John reinforces it. This verse reflects a pattern with how John uses γεγέννηται in this letter (e.g., 1 John 2:29; 4:7). He intends the perfect γεγέννηται to be understood as an ontological grounds of whatever present participial action he pairs with it. Notice the pattern:

...πᾶς ὁ ποιῶν τὴν δικαιοσύνην ἐξ αὐτοῦ γεγέννηται (1 John 2:29, "everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him")
...πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται... (1 John 4:7, "everyone who loves has been born of God")
Πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται (1 John 5:1, "everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God")

These are clear grammatical parallels; John is making a point here. So however we interpret one, we must be consistent with interpreting the others. Thus, if 1 John 5:1 is read as faith preceding (or having no logical relationship to) regeneration, consistency demands the same understanding with regards to practicing righteousness and godly love. What then is the purpose of regeneration at all, if the sinner is capable of engaging in these activities prior to regeneration?

So it's not enough to point to "present participle + a perfect" and claim parity between 1 John 5:1 and another verse. That was not my intended argument, and I realize in hindsight it was a mistake not to be clearer on that in the OP. 1 John 5:1 and 5:10 perform different rhetorical functions, so the same forms function differently.

Briefly:

1 John 5:1 uses a perfect passive to name a completed, ontological event, and a substantival present participle to describe the ongoing condition that issues from that event. That's the standard use of the perfect + present participle in the vast majority of cases, and clearly seems to be John's intended use of γεγέννηται throughout the letter.

1 John 5:10 contrasts two present states (ὁ πιστεύων and ὁ μὴ πιστεύων, "believing" and "not believing") and then treats a cluster of perfects as completed acts or testimonies whose consequences follow. Critically, the ὅτι clause ("because he has not believed...") explains why the unbeliever is said to have "made God a liar" (πεποίηκεν). The perfects describe completed acts with present consequence (God's testimony given; the person's rejection).

Put another way: in 5:10 the participles set up the contrast (current believer vs. current non-believer); the perfects then state the results or evidences that attend those states. In 5:1 the perfect states the prior ontological reality that makes the present participial state intelligible. In 5:10, the ὅτι clause is the interpretive key. It exposes the perfects as explanatory/consequential, not as the kind of ontological ground that γεγέννηται functions as in 5:1.

(My emphasis added.) I'm not convinced you understand the difference between the terms logical and temporal, as I've made this distinction in no fewer than four of my replies to you (not to mention the OP itself), and you're still conflating the two. A temporal order concerns when events occur in time; a logical order concerns what necessarily gives rise to what. You can have two events occur simultaneously in time, and there still be logical order between them. For instance, the sun doesn't shine first and then later produce light (temporal sequence); light proceeds from it by necessity. The sun shining, and the ground being illuminated, are simultaneous actions, but that doesn't mean the logical order can be reversed from "the ground is illuminated because the sun shines," to "the sun shines because the ground is illuminated."

So I have no issue with saying regeneration can occur simultaneously with another action. The issue I am concerned with is the logical relationship between regeneration and faith. Is my room illuminated because the light switch was flipped (do I believe because God has regenerated me), or was the light switch flipped because my room is illuminated (did God regenerate me because I believe)? The actions of flipping the switch and the room being illuminated can be instantaneous as I experience them, but that doesn't speak to the nature of the logical relationship between them.

I had hoped that you would see that your OP (copied below for ease of reference) mis-stated the gramatical implications of 1 John 5:1a. And I am glad to see that you have done so.

Dikaioumenoi said:
1 John 5:1a reads:

πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστὶν ὁ Χριστός, ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ γεγέννηται
("Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God")

A few grammatical observations:

First, ὁ πιστεύων is a present active participle functioning substantively: "the one who is believing." The participle presents the subject, and describes a present, ongoing activity rather than a completed act of faith.

Second, γεγέννηται, the main verb of the clause, is a perfect passive indicative: "has been begotten" or "has been born [of God]." The perfect tense is more than just a "past" tense. Its aspectual function specifically points to a completed action in the past whose effects continue into the present.

When the two forms are set in relation to each other, especially with the present participle functioning substantively -- that is, as the subject of the main verb -- the natural sense is that the person who now believes does so as one who has already been born of God. The grammar, therefore, suggests a logical ordering in which the new birth precedes the act of believing.

This does not, of course, deny the simultaneous experience of these realities in human perception, but grammatically the text places regeneration as the root (the logical grounds) and believing as its fruit.

The natural sense of the grammar is not that one who believes has already been born of God, the grammar does not suggest a logical ordering in which the new birth preceeds the act of believing, and the grammar does not place regeneration as the root and believing as the fruit. So, your OP was wrong on all three points. And now you have rightly asserted that it takes more than grammar to make these points.

I can see that faith logically preceeds receiving Him, that receiving Him logically preceeds Him giving us the right to become His children, and that the right to become His children logically preceeds God giving birth to us (John 1:12-13) even though it is impossible to observe any difference in time between these items. And I can see that all the things that pertain to life and godliness are ours now because Jesus lives in our hearts (2 Pet 1:1-4).

essentialsaltes · Nov 6, 2025

TAYBEH, West Bank — “Come visit Taybeh,” begins the brochure touting the touristic attractions here, the last entirely Palestinian Christian village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Though it counts Jesus among its many visitors over the years, said Khaldoon Hanna, Taybeh’s avuncular deputy mayor, these days “no one is coming.”

He sighed as he looked around the restaurant he owns on the village’s Main Street.

“In the last two years, I haven’t had more than 20 tourists come in here,” Hanna said.

How could they, Hanna said, when you have to negotiate a growing gantlet of Israeli roadblocks just to get here? Or face off emboldened settlers who make increasing forays into the village to burn cars or destroy property? In July, they even tried to set fire to the ruins of the Church of St. George, a 5th century Byzantine structure on Taybeh’s hilltop, Hanna and religious leaders said; the Israeli government says it’s unclear what started the blaze.

And the scope of the intimidation campaign is increasing: The olive harvest in October saw 126 attacks on Palestinians and their property in 70 West Bank towns and villages; it was almost three times the number of attacks and double the communities targeted during 2023’s harvest. More than 4,000 olive trees and saplings were vandalized, the highest number in six years, OCHA says.

Madees Khoury, the general manager of Taybeh Brewing Co., is one of those who choose to stay in town, though she knows at least one family gearing up to emigrate in the coming weeks.

“Khalas, you can’t blame them,” she said, using the Arabic word for “enough.” “It’s sad. These are the good people, the ones you want to stay, to build, to educate their kids, to resist.”

That was the ethos driving her family, which opened the microbrewery in the optimistic days after the 1993 Oslo Accords, when peace and a Palestinian state seemed within reach. Instead of starting a brewery in Boston, Khoury’s father, Nadeem Khoury, and his brother gave up their business in Brookline, Mass., and moved back with their kids to Taybeh.

In years past, [the town] was the site of an Oktoberfest celebration that would draw 16,000 people.

Although Israel portrays itself as a model of religious freedom, there has been a rise in anti-Christian behavior in recent years. A 2024 report by the Jerusalem-based Rossing Center for Education and Dialogue counted 111 reported cases of attacks against Christians in Israel and the West Bank, including 46 physical assaults, 35 attacks against church properties and 13 cases of harassment.

“We think that as Christians, nothing will happen to us. But this is empty talk. As long as you’re Palestinian, they’ll attack you,” Khoury said.

After earning a college degree in Boston, she came back in 2007 and has been working at the brewery since. She acknowledges that the last two years have been the most difficult yet, with business down 70% and Israeli security procedures turning a 90-minute drive to the port of Haifa into a three-day odyssey.

DaisyDay · Nov 6, 2025

Is she still a licensed attorney?

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Department of Transportation might be forced to shut down some airspace next week: Duffy​

Trump administration will reduce traffic at 40 airports across the US starting Friday if shutdown continues​

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Department of Transportation might be forced to shut down some airspace next week: Duffy

Trump administration will reduce traffic at 40 airports across the US starting Friday if shutdown continues