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RileyG · Sep 6, 2024

Lord have mercy!

BobRyan · Sep 6, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
We are all Trinitarians here, united in our love for the Lord and in our joy to praise His name. We find delight in the scriptures, especially when the apostles bear witness to the deity of our Lord, Jesus Christ, teaching us that He is indeed God incarnate, and we rejoice. However, there are some who claim that our English Bible translations exhibit bias in certain passages. I would like to enumerate these passages, the so-called "proof texts."

Passage ESV (evangelical protestant) ASV (protestant) NWT (Jehovah's witnesses)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].
Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh: God, who is over all, [be] blessed forever. Amen.
Colossians 1:16-19 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (17) And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. (19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; (17) and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (19) For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,
Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Saviour of us, Christ Jesus,
2Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ: Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Saviour Jesus Christ:
Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. "I am the Al'pha and the Ome'ga," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

It is evident that the ESV consistently opts for Trinitarian translations, the ASV often selects them, whereas the NWT invariably avoids interpretations that could be perceived as attributing divinity to Jesus. It might be argued that the ESV exhibits a bias towards evangelical doctrine, the ASV maintains a more balanced approach, and the NWT displays a pronounced bias in favor of Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings.

No question that bias exists. But take a look at John 1:1 vs 1:18 in the NWT for JW's

1:1 "The Word Was a God"
1:18 "no man has seen God..."

Notice the JW - NWT did not use "a God" vs 18 -- the way they did in vs 1. Apparently they do know that the vs 1 edit that they did - is not reasonable.

Next --

Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, ESV

does not say "our great God and our Savior" but rather it says 'great God and Savior"

NASB 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
It is the same with NKJV, KJV, Yount's Literal Trans,

When multiple translations (including Young's Literal) get it one way and are in some cases a committee of scholars from various denomination - then it is pretty safe to conclude they have it right.

JW scholarship is all-one-POV, affirming a rendering of the text that best fits their stated preference - their stated theology. Their own unique translation.

Jipsah · Sep 6, 2024

the_nazarene said:
Hi all,

I noticed crows directly outside of my window when doing spiritual things like prayer and worship. While I asked the Father to address the matter (and believe He has done so), I am curious to know what insight others may have into what caused the crows to appear. They appeared multiple times over the course of several days.

Thanks

Most likely is food, good places to perch, or both.

Crows are birds. They do things for bird reasons.

Dave Darling · Sep 6, 2024

The Asus Zenbook is also nice but more expensive, pic is here:

Dave Darling · Sep 6, 2024

Pics of the 7-inch mini laptop are here, I may still pick up one of these at some point.

Offline4Better. · Sep 6, 2024

tonychanyt said:
The LORD said to Moses in Ex 20:

While the Israelites wandered in the wilderness, the altar wasn't high.

Centuries later (New Living Translation) 2 Chronicles 4:

The altar in Solomon's temple was high above ground. There was a ramp or steps leading up to it.

More centuries later, Ezekiel described in 43:

Was the altar allowed to have steps leading up to it?

I think so. The important point was that the priest's nakedness would not be exposed on the altar.

If the Bible was set in 2024, the altar would use escalators, cos we must elevate our faith in Jesus every day.

RoBo1988 · Sep 6, 2024

IceJad said:
Lindsey Graham blasts Amazon over Alexa’s pro-Harris bias, demands answers

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) put Amazon “on notice” in a letter Thursday, after viral videos showed the company’s AI home device could answer questions on why to vote for Vice Presi…

nypost.com

Login to view embedded media
It's no secret a large majority of big tech in the US favor one side of the political spectrum. This can be observed from services they provide. Which content to censor and which to push. Facebook came clean recently.

Here you have Alexa Amazon's premier AI being bias in it's response. It was an "error" claimed Amazon and apparently now it is "fixed". Yes "fixed" or more correctly "adjusted". For those who are not in the know about AI. Generative AI which Alexa is using, needs to be trained with a large dataset. It is through iterative training that the AI learns context. The AI itself doesn't have a bias because it is just learning from the dataset provided. But you can make an AI bias if you feed it only a certain type of dataset or put "training filters" to the AI.

What Alexa did wasn't a mistake in the typical sense of it. It is not a glitch or bug (programming error). It was the filters and settings Amazon put on the AI that made it bias.

Shocked, simply shocked, that Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post would endorse Harris...

Okay, not really.

Most news and media outlets are hard left. Eye roll is usually required.

bèlla · Sep 6, 2024

Darktriad said:
It's a lot to spend on a car. Most people begin to bulk if it's over 50k on a new car.

Even people in sales that make good money don't go blow 300k on a car. At some point it doesn't make any sense.

People with that level of discretionary income aren't usually working for others and purchase the vehicle through the business which brings additional tax breaks.

Lot is subjective. I think mobile phone prices are ridiculous for an item whose resale value can't be recouped. But there are people who happily spend $1,000 for the latest iPhone or related device. The real issue is appreciable vs depreciable assets and knowing how to use both to your advantage.

~bella

ViaCrucis · Sep 6, 2024

Larniavc said:
As an atheist the lens I see this through is authoritarian. The more authoritarian the Christian is the more the Bible needs to be adhered to as its message trumps all. Less authoritarian Christians seem to place their view of God’s character higher than the Bible.

I think that's what certain segments of the Christian population want it to seem like.

But, at least from where I'm standing, it seems like the inverse.

I don't see the authoritarianism as having a stronger adherence to the Bible, but less.

Obviously anecdotal; but my experience over the years has been that the more hardline, moralistic, and authoritarian someone says they are, the less they understand or have experience reading the Bible. Bland appeals to "the authority of the Bible" are much easier to make than putting in effort to make sense of a millennia-old set of texts and take what it says seriously in a personally applicable way.

It's the same difference between taking the Jewish Carpenter from Nazareth seriously, and having a generic gnostificized Anglo-American "Jesus" that functions as one's personal moralistic cheerleader.

-CryptoLutheran

Jeffrey Bowden · Sep 6, 2024

Jamdoc said:
King James has it as "beasts of the earth"
and a beast everywhere else on Earth in Revelation, and Daniel 7, is not referring to wild animals.

The hour of judgement happens *after* the Mark of the Beast.

Dude, the "beasts of the earth" are wild beasts.

You have "beasts" misunderstood, and you even have judgments wrong.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) happens in Heaven on the day of the pre-Trib rapture, per 2 Tim 4:8 ("on that day"). That judgment is only for all resurrected believers (1 Th 4:16) and presently living believers (1 Th 4:17).

There is no judgment in the Trib.

The next judgment is for the AC and the false prophet (Rev 19:20).

After Armageddon, the judgments in Matt 25:31-46 will occur. Those are judgments of the unbelieving survivors of the Trib and those gathered in Matt 24:31 ("the elect"). There is a possibility that new converts who exceed "the number of their fellow servants" for the GM (Rev 6:11) are included in Matt 25:31-40.

After the Millennial Kingdom there are two judgments: Rev 20:10 (Satan), then the Great White Throne of Judgment (Rev 20:11-15). The GWTJ judges all folks who died in sin.

You see? You need a lot of help, and all you do is ignore the truth I present.

E.C. · Sep 6, 2024

The Liturgist said:
As a member of the OCA since 2014, I myself really love ROCOR and greatly appreciate them. Indeed the best confessional experience I ever had was with a ROCOR priest, who really greatly assisted me with bereavement. I have also had very good experiences with OCA priests.

In Southern California, Los Angeles has two large ROCOR parishes and an additional Russian Orthodox parish of the OCA, which operates on a sort of dual-calendar system. And in San Francisco, the Russian neighborhood has the massive ROCOR Holy Virgin Cathedral which is home to the relics of St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, and is the largest Russian Orthodox cathedral in the Western hemisphere, and nearby is the OCA Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, and I would not say the two compete, since the former serves the liturgy primarily in Church Slavonic, and the latter primarily in English, and additionally there is an OCA monastery located near San Francisco dedicated to St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco. And beyond, in the very far north of California, is the Serbian Orthodox monastery of St. Herman of Platina, founded by Metropolitan Seraphim Rose, who was a member of ROCOR, and in Washington there is the ROCOR monastery on Vashon Island, which I hope to visit.

I've heard good things about the Bay Area communities and it is refreshing to see that they mostly get along. I saw photos recently from the anniversary of either St John's repose or canonization and saw that Archbishop Benjamin of the OCA was concelebrating too despite his Parkinson's.

As someone who grew up in Washington state and used to frequent the Vashon monastery, I can not in good conscience recommend visiting Vashon Island. Abbot Tryphon has drunk the Putin Kool-Aid. The day the war started he posted on his blog in support of Putin's war, declared that Ukraine is a "Communist invention", the government is full of fascists, and that Ukrainian as a nationality and language doesn't exist therefore they deserve war for "betraying their real Russian identity". Anyone who spoke against him he personally accused them of being "woke" and not being "real Orthodox" and that we need to confess our apostacy for not supporting Putin. It is disappointing to see how far he has gone off the rails.

Valletta · Sep 6, 2024

The Liturgist said:
God bless you too my friend. And please pray for me as I have been extremely ill.

I'll pray for you too and I hope you have a blessed Feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos on Sunday.

RileyG · Sep 6, 2024

This saddens me. Oh well, I can’t agree with all politicians.

RileyG · Sep 6, 2024

The Liturgist said:
They will decompose unless preserved as a fossil, in which case they might last until destroyed by geological activity. Since we do not know when precisely Christ will return, the projection that the Earth itself will eventually in a few billion years exhaust its supply of water, and then be destroyed by the Sun as it expands after exhausting its supply of hydrogen, does not bother me, since even if the Earth is destroyed, God will deliver on His promise to make a new one, and indeed we expect the old Earth to pass away anyway.

Amen!

eleos1954 · Sep 6, 2024

I'm waiting for starlink to be further developed and more cost effective then will likely go that route.

eleos1954 · Sep 6, 2024

Tellyontellyon said:
Why not, religious ecstasy sounds good!

religious experiences during alternate states of consciousness

alternate states of consciousness leave the door wide open for the evil one to enter into the mind. Hypnotism (of which can be self induced)

Our approach is to be based on knowledge (of the written Word of God) ... not emotions. Our approach is to be with a sound mind.

Psalms 130

5I wait for the LORD; my soul does wait,
and in His word I put my hope.

Timothy 1:7, “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness He used the power of the written word as His shield (It is written) ... not His emotions.

Ephesians 4:26

But don’t let the passion of your emotions lead you to sin! Don’t let anger control you or be fuel for revenge, not for even a day.

Our emotions can lead us into sin .... the written Word of God will not.

We can not trust our emotions (feelings) ..... Feelings can and often are very subjective. Trust the written Word of God.

John 17:17-26 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered (Proverbs 28:26).

Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore, get wisdom and in all thy getting, get understanding (Proverbs 4:7)

James 3:17 says, “The wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.”

We should be extremely careful of what we open our minds to.

tonychanyt · Sep 6, 2024

Be faithful to each other (He 13:4, 1Th 4:3-5). Do not commit adultery.
Sex is for enjoyment, not just procreation.
Sex is a conjugal right. 1Co 7:

4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

4. Do not mistreat your wife's body. Ep 5:

28 Husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.

The Bible does not specifically prohibit or endorse particular sexual acts between married couples. The above are some principles. The focus is on mutual love, respect, and the sanctity of the marriage covenant.

RileyG · Sep 6, 2024

Sunflower39 said:
I think views vary. Every year, my church celebrates the Feast of the Assumption of Mary.

Thanks for the info.

tonychanyt · Sep 6, 2024

Smoking and the temple of God

1Co 6:

17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sine a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Some Christians use v 19 against smoking. That wasn't Paul's logic. The context was sexual immorality.

You have been born of the Spirit. The Paraclete dwells in you. This is not a metaphor but a spiritual reality. It is not good to share your Paraclete so closely by an act of sexual intercourse with someone who is not your wife.

You don't need v 19 to stop smoking. See this.

Do you think in order to become a temple or a church for God's spirit to dwell within us, we need to stay away from things that harms our body?

No, God's Spirit dwells with you when you are born again, whether you smoke or not.

Unqualified · Sep 6, 2024

Ain't Zwinglian · Sep 6, 2024

The Liturgist said:
but what environment is it your friends live in?

Markus Borg. Richard Rohr.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2024

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Jesus told us that the devil was a liar, and a murderer from the beginning, John 8:44

There does not exist a single scripture that says Satan, the devil, was ever "HOLY." In other words, there was never a Holy Satan to start with. You'll find zero evidence of Holy Satan in the scriptures

The closest we can get is that Satan was perfect, with the huge caveat of "in thy ways"

Short version: A perfect devil is a devil nevertheless

The opening post is correct in this regard: Devils will not and can not be saved

What it doesn't mean though is that any of Satan and his own were ever holy. They are simply nasty characters. Elemental spirits, made by God to be used and discarded at the end of their uses. Like the silk of our present cocoon.
A covering upon us all. Isaiah 25:7, Ezekiel 28:16

We do not even know what that means to us, because we are all in cloudy time, and can not see straight

So, there are holy angels i.e. holy messengers

and

there are wicked angels or wicked messengers

These were never the same spirits. The later are antiChrist spirits

I alluded to that in my post #5.

Offline4Better. · Sep 6, 2024

Diamond72 said:
It would be a lot easier to attack the power grid. I got a $70 sewer bill last month. I think I have already been hacked.

My water is free, comes with the place.

Offline4Better. · Sep 6, 2024

mindlight said:
Yes, I have added that to my signature.

Interesting stuff. I do not have any signature here.

Passage	ESV (evangelical protestant)	ASV (protestant)	NWT (Jehovah's witnesses)
John 1:1	In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.	In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.	In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
John 1:18	No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.	No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.	No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.
John 20:28	Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"	Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.	In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"
Acts 20:28	Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.	Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.	Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].
Romans 9:5	To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.	whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.	to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh: God, who is over all, [be] blessed forever. Amen.
Colossians 1:16-19	16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (17) And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. (19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,	16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; (17) and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (19) For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell;	16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,
Titus 2:13	waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,	looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;	while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Saviour of us, Christ Jesus,
2Peter 1:1	Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:	Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ:	Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and [the] Saviour Jesus Christ:
Rev 1:8	"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."	I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.	"I am the Al'pha and the Ome'ga," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

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